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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 182459 times)

Offline ramset

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #420 on: December 14, 2008, 09:20:23 PM »
Armagdn03
Thankyou for the responce !!
Always look forward to your posts
Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #420 on: December 14, 2008, 09:20:23 PM »

Offline Groundloop

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #421 on: December 14, 2008, 10:13:05 PM »
@armagdn03,

The circuit I posted is one solution to the problem of energizing a coil and then totally disconnect the input
source forcing the coil to put the back the emf voltage to the output.  When I talked to Wattsup I got the impression
that the circuit should work this way. I looked into solid states ways to do this but I soon realized that we
have no components (as far as I know) that can fully be insulated between the source voltage and output. There will
always be some small leakage that will dampen the high Z situation we want the coil to be in when not energizing
the coil. I looked into transistors, mosfets, igbts, thyristors, diode solutions and hexfets. I found that all of these
components would not suit this circuit. I then researched mechanical ways to do it. I found that ordinary relays
was to sluggis and slow and there was no certain way to control the switch on time and the switch off time of
different relays. I then looked at rotary switches and found that the power to operate such devices will be higher
than the gain in the output, so I dismissed the thought. I still wanted to find a way to test this theory so I ended
up with reed relays. I have found that the reed relay type proposed has a very linear switch time. I have tested
this relay in small pulse motors and have found that the relay is capable of switching at a relative high speed.
I realize that a relay will never be fast enough to fully insulate the transformer when the magnetic field flips around
and the back emf generated voltage starts to climb, but maybe this circuit will show the effect? The speed of
the bemfv flip can be controlled with a non polarized capacitor across the transformer primary winding. I estimate
that if we slow the transformer down by making a LC circuit on the primary that is approximately 10 times slower
than the reed relays capability to switch, then maybe we can get some useful power out of the transformer, or at
least be able to demonstrate the effect in question?

Groundloop.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #422 on: December 15, 2008, 12:57:33 AM »
@Wattsup,

Attached is a circuit solution that MAY work.

The proposed circuit works like this:

When the operator provide a positive pulse to the optocoupler then the hexfet transistor will close.
This will give a positive bias to the bottom SCR and the SCR will close. This will enable the top SCR
to close also since there is a path for the current to flow. The current will now flow through the transformer.
The operator then switch off the control voltage to the optocoupler and the hexfet transistor will open.
This will remove the current to the circuit and both SCRs will stop conducting current and switch off again.
The SCRs will stay switched off until the operator again triggers the optocoupler. As long as the SCRs is
switched off the transformer coil will be free to oscillate at high Z.

If we get a small feed back from the output of the transformer then it is possible to use solid state electronics
or a micro controller to switch the input in phase with the oscillations in the transformer. The feed back is not shown in this drawing.

Groundloop.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #422 on: December 15, 2008, 12:57:33 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #423 on: December 15, 2008, 01:00:53 AM »
@all

Yes, @Groundloops diagram with the two reeds is an attempt to replace the relay I used in the Trail #3 Erfinder Circuit attempt that is on this thread located here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3972.msg77661#msg77661

On the same thread I have already tested @allcanadian circuit with reeds here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3972.msg129277#msg129277

Also on this thread I tested a dual transformer pulsing with two 3-way reeds here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3972.msg84982#msg84982
This one was totally a blast to do because by placing the reeds at the right positions they where mutually pulsing the other. Very interesting but slow.

I had asked @Groundloop to look for a way to quickly cut off the positive and negative because according to my previous Trial #3 tests, the voltage rise on the secondary was very interesting indeed but limited by the relatively low pulsing frequency. The reason to look for another way is to reach frequency levels that would permit pulsing at the resonant level of the transformers primary, but instead of using a FG like shown by @armagedn03, using a cutoff that would sever completely the transformers leads hence the potential for return current, thinking that this would leave no other choice for the flyback but to push higher energy through the laminated core and transfer to the secondary.

I would like to thank @Groundloop since he was good enough to look at this question and unfortunately, it seems this is one thing we cannot do, that is to have a EE component that can do a 100% open circuit at frequencies in the range of 50k to 250k which is the range I have seen most of the coils to be at resonance. Hmmmmm. Is it possible that there is something EE cannot do? lol

So now I am thinking that if the resonance frequency is relative to coil size, then I would need a very very big transformer in order to match its resonant frequency with that of the fastest available 100% switching speeds.

But here is a question that may sound crazy but guys doing the @armagdn03 resonant test will know more about. Well we know with the resonance tests that the series bulb is lit when the LC circuit is NOT in resonance, and the bulb goes off when the circuit IS in resonance. Lite on, lite off. Isn't that a switch in itself? Just asking. But if an LC circuit could go in and out of resonance as fast as 50kHz, would this be another way of switching? You take a FG to find and maintain a resonant frequency and use a transistor to pulse that frequency on and off. How instant can a resonance be established in a coil would then be the limiting factor. Maybe opening up a whole new can of worms and a new set of problems. Hmmmmmm.

Added:

@GL just saw your new post, will look it over and let you know. Thanks.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #424 on: December 15, 2008, 03:09:24 AM »
What is being argued could be filed under "improvements upon switching systems" or something similar.

Even if you have a sub par switching system, it can achieve the goal of supposed over unity. The real concept to grasp is how to use resonant conditions in the generation and use of power systems. It has been proven beyond argument that the conversion between energy forms is not always a linearly described system. The confusion arises with conversion ratios that supposedly dictate transducer transformation properties, i.e. watts to lumens, watts to horsepower etc.

To groundloops point, even a battery unconnected to any "load" will have leakage between terminals..........yes this is to be avoided, but it is not one of the primary things that should be considered when trying to create such systems.

For example, say your system is 1.2 cop. if left in "avalanche" (sorry to throw out an EE term) mode that .2  above unity can constitute a huge amount of power depending on input.........since its a circular feedback the input could start out small and grow along with output.  If your system is 100 cop, it would happen much quicker and be much more efficient, but both will work to demonstrate concept.

Dont worry about improving upon switching mechanisms when the machine around which they have been built have not been shown.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #424 on: December 15, 2008, 03:09:24 AM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #425 on: December 15, 2008, 08:05:17 AM »
@armagdn03,

>>What is being argued could be filed under "improvements upon switching systems" or something similar.
>>Dont worry about improving upon switching mechanisms when the machine around which they have been built have not been shown.

If this is just a theoretical discussion thread about Tesla? Am I wasting time trying to find a switching solution to Wattsup circuit?

Groundloop.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #426 on: December 15, 2008, 10:41:58 PM »
Nonot at all, sorry if it came off that way, im just sayig dont get boged down in the details, big picture thinking, Actually being able to switch ac is very useful, and the optocoupled scr is something that can be bought in a package form or made with mosfets without freewheel diodes

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #426 on: December 15, 2008, 10:41:58 PM »
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Offline Kator01

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #427 on: December 16, 2008, 01:24:36 AM »
Hi Folks,

never ever place a MOSFET in a switching circuit in this configuration.

Please see attached pic I had sent to another user for the cap-switch-experiment

I have to add : .... increasing voltage at the inductor.

I will not argue on this. This is electronic-basics.

The gate-source-level must no be reduced by rising up the ground-level which will happen because of the reluctance of the coil.

Best Regards

Kator01

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #428 on: December 16, 2008, 07:17:51 AM »
@Groundloop

I understand fully what @armagdn03 is saying and I am glad he explained it because I was at a loss to know what to say. For me I was sure he did not mean to stop this or that but to keep in mind the ultimate goal.

Also, for me, the idea of building a device then hoping that the required switching system can just materialize is not a sound method.

Thanks for the last diagram. I am trying to get my head into the circuit but am having some trouble.
In your description you mention an optocoupler, a hexfet and two scrs but I only see one scr which is the IRL540N.

Also, I think @kator01 was referring to the 4N32 saying it should be on the ground side. I have used the IRF840 on the positive line with good results, maybe this is also good for the circuit.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #428 on: December 16, 2008, 07:17:51 AM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #429 on: December 16, 2008, 07:35:10 AM »
@wattsup,

The IRL540N is a hexfet. The two SCRs is the BT151.

It is possible to use an hexfet at the positive line in this case because the
powering of the gate is relative to the transistor inside the opto coupler.
The back emf generated voltage from the coil is a problem, yes, but
is is my hope that this will not be a problem in this circuit because the SCR
will be closed when the back emf voltage goes negative. So when we shut off
the hexfet then the current through the coil will stop. Both SCRs will go
open circuit and no back emf voltage can or will be coupled back to the input.
The biggest problem as I see it is how to get both SCRs to start conducting
current. Even if we trigger the gates on the SCRs with a positive voltage,
then there is no positive voltage potential in the coil so the lowest (in the drawing)
SCR will not close to carry current because the top (in the drawing) SCR is not
closed yet. It is a catch 22 situation.  So, how can be give a small positive bias
to the coil without "destroying" the intention of the circuit? That is the question.
I will look into this and see if there is a solution.

Regards,
Groundloop.

Offline scotty1

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #430 on: December 16, 2008, 07:57:25 AM »
Hi all.
I recommend you study Tesla's writings on current interrupters.
You will find that Tesla never found an optimum spark gap device.
Of course if you vibrate the whole Earth then the spark gap losses are nothing  ;)
The reason the spark gap is never perfect is because of the way the charge builds up.
Tesla wanted to discharge through a medium that would crack like glass to let the energy pass, but he found that there was always a slow build up, then a sudden build up which caused the arc.
It was this problem that Tesla was trying to solve with the magnetic quench system.

I read articles from tfcbooks.com, so the info is probably there.
There is a paper on current interrupters there but i think there is other info in a different article also.
Scotty.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #430 on: December 16, 2008, 07:57:25 AM »
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Offline Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #431 on: December 17, 2008, 03:49:55 PM »
"Resonance" is only a means to obtain very high voltage.

TFC Books has a book that details a lengthy interview between Tesla and his Attorneys:
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

On page 100 of that book Tesla states the following:

Quote
There are two ways in which you can operate if you have a reciever of that kind.  (Tesla is refering to his system depicted in patent 645,576) One is by linking, closely, your working circuit with the primary excited circuit.  The other is by linking it loosely, and then working up the pressure by resonance.  You will find that you can do much better, if you have such a device, to produce the necessary pressure by turns, than by resonant rise, because if you want to excite it by resonance you have to link only a few lines; start with a very low electromotive force and work it up.  But, if you have such a device as I have described, you can obtain any pressure you like by a few secondary turns.  I have invented such an instrument and have demonstrated its efficacy.

So, just like Richard Hull found out in his own experiments, resonant rise will only get you so far.  It's just a means to an end, and not necessarily the best means.



Offline sparks

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #432 on: December 17, 2008, 05:05:09 PM »
@Grumpy


      And the device he describes? A mobius bifilar coil secondary with a two turn primary?

Offline Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #433 on: December 17, 2008, 07:15:38 PM »
@Grumpy


      And the device he describes? A mobius bifilar coil secondary with a two turn primary?

No, just a pancake coil Tesla Transformer - two coil version - not the magnifier.

 

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