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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 236396 times)

Offline clone477

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #315 on: September 18, 2008, 03:12:45 AM »
Ive been playing with the circuit guys and made some discoveries.  I used a automotive ignition coil for primary and secondary, and it works well.  On the out put of the secondary I used a adjustable spark tester used in automotive.  I put my volt meter on my postive and negitive terminals of my battery.  With the spark tester adjusted I was able to feed 2000volt pulses back to the battery.  So this circuit for sure provides energy from the secondary to be used, runs an electric motor, and lastly recharges the source/powers the motor.  This has all been comfirmed, Thanks for all for bringing this circuit to light, Tesla was truely a genious.  Fern

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #316 on: September 18, 2008, 04:25:40 AM »
@wattsup
Quote
I set-up my new pulser wheel with one of my toroidal transformers. Since my switch is a SPDT, I used it to simply take the 24 volts from my two batteries and pulse them alternatively into the transformer, then pass the secondary through a diode to my biggest holding capacitor, then through another diode back to the positive of the battery. I also put a 120vac 100w light bulb parallel to the cap.
I pressed theo start button and the wheel turned for about 10 seconds and voltage went up to 68 volts on the cap. I then switched the light bulb on and voltage went down to around 25 volts. I then switched the start button to off and stopped the wheel. But it has been that way for four hours now and voltage on the battery had not gone down. I know for a fact that my system never did this before. The light is lit as shown below and it is hot to the touch. You cannot hold it for more then a second.
When I stopped the system, the wheel was pushing in the switch so the NO is connected to Common. Just leaving it alone like this and I cannot figure out why the battery voltage is not going down or at least, why. Plus the start button is at the off position. Shit.

Hey, did you figure out what was going on in your circuit?

Offline sparks

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #317 on: September 18, 2008, 02:12:58 PM »
       When testing electric motor field coils we use a highfrequency generator.  This increases the turn to turn voltage potential just like Tesla demonstrates in his coil capacitor. Any insulation problems betweem turns results in a short and burns the bad coil.  Increase in voltage as a result of increase in frequency.  Now if this coil was geometrically configured like Tesla's bifilar pancake the whole surface area of the copper becomes a capacitor whose plates are the bifilar element turns, and air the electrolyte.  The advantage to this capacitor is that it charges as a consequence of the through current on a pulse from the oscillator.  Something like shorting a capacitor and still having it charge.

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #318 on: September 18, 2008, 03:45:38 PM »
@AC and @gotoluc (thanks gotoluc for your PM)

OK I found there was one wire I did not see with all the wires on the bench, that went directly form the negative of the battery to the negative side of the capacitor. The voltage started going down on the battery about 6  hours after I started and by the next morning was down to 22 volts off the two batteries.

This is what caused the light to light but I still cannot explain why the voltage went down so slowly. I did retry this time, recharge the batteries and just put the light directly on the batteries. The light lit the same way but voltage went down very quickly. I will have to do some more study on this plus I am making plans to add some more induction off the SPDP switch.  I want more punch at each pulse.

The switching wheel is working great. I will add another switch onto the wheel to increase pulse rates or to pulse another part of the circuit.

I do not know if there is anything yet to jump up. I may have jumped to fast but geez, when you see something so out of the ordinary, then you look and look and cannot explain, why.

@clone477

Good work. I know I am sometimes a pain in the ass when others post their devices and I ask them to try something. It is because you already have the setup in place and learning more on it is the name of the game. I asked @Peterae to try something on another thread with his spherics coil and will ask you something also.

Simply, if you have any type of coil, can you position it around or above the spark gap and put a volt meter on it, or add a diode and a cap to the coil and put a voltmeter on the cap. I would like to know if the spark gap itself, if inside a coil, will impart energy to the coil and hence increase the voltage inside the capacitor. If you have different types of coils, horizontal wound, toroidal or whatever, you can then try them to see the differences. This would be isolated from your present circuit but there may be some untapped energy around the spark.

@poynt99

Thanks for your PMs and thanks for your work. Maybe put a permanent link to it in your signature so people will see it easily.

I have been working more hours these days but have started reading your doc. I may not be the best person to comment on it. Pulsing 300vdc is not an easy task. I know you have great interest in the spherics design but I still do not understand why there is so much to do with this. I cannot see any link to the SM TPU. From what I can tell, the spherics design itself has some major flaws. In a nutshell, guys are not realizing that the field only happens one way and you have to be flexible enough to find the best directionality of the field. Some thoughts on this are;

- The bottom coils should be on pivots that can enable you to change the coil angle.
- The bottom coils are right angled at a small incline, but they should also be tilted off the right angle by 15-20 degrees right if you want the field to move left, or tilted left if you want the field to move right.
- Having the bottom coils at a right angle will send the north (or south) polarity over the toroid but in two directions, left and right, and this will create a stationary condition, this is why you will need to tilt them so only one side of the field hits the toroid in one direction.
- I would say the toroid itself has to have at least 26-29 awg wire or thinner.
- The toroid should be wound one layer, then covered with two layers of a thin paper ribbon, then another layer, then cover with paper, then another layer and so on. All layers connected in parallel to each other wound in the same direction. This layering will permit the coil to take up a 3 dimensional space for the top and bottom coil fields to permeate without creating adverse skin effects. Also to prevent deflection, each additional wind could be wound courser then the previous wind so the outer most wind will not act as a shield as it gets energized. In water treatment, we call this a depth type filter. Hey you could call it a toroidal depth ether sieve.

This is why I am wondering why guys are building tripods, etc. Just make the coils and place them on any type of non magnetic support to be able to change the coil angles. It seems rather presumptuous that guys would expect the field to react in such a rigid manner as to make everything so permanent, then if they do not see the results, not realizing they could be only a few angles away from success. That would be a pity indeed.

But the main drawback of the spherics design will still be the fact that only 20-30% of the energy consumed by the coils will actually take part in a directed flux to conversion. The remaining energy will just be dissipated into space. Now maybe, just maybe, this dissipation will create an NMR rotating attraction field to attract ether energy into the device, I cannot say, but it is nice to think about.

The north and south polarities must convince the carrier to go in the right direction.

Then the fun would start.

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #319 on: September 18, 2008, 09:34:47 PM »
@wattsup
Quote
OK I found there was one wire I did not see with all the wires on the bench, that went directly form the negative of the battery to the negative side of the capacitor. The voltage started going down on the battery about 6  hours after I started and by the next morning was down to 22 volts off the two batteries.
LOL, I was wondering if this was the case. This same thing has happened to me a few times and then I traced the circuit and still could not figure it out. Finally I started pulling wires one at a time until the culprit was found.
Best Regards

Offline barbosi

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #320 on: September 20, 2008, 02:36:13 AM »
1. Now, if there was just that missed wire then the schematic is like in fig.1 (added the blue wire).

2. Because the switch was OFF the equivalent schematic is like in fig.2.

3. Since apparently the batteries are not needed any more, we may consider these were needed just to start the process and [after they are recharged], we can take them out from the schematic like in fig.3

4. Only for cleaning purposes we can reconsider fig.3 going into fig.4.

And now let's recap: from the original schematic was omitted the blue wire and after an initial kick were it was used the battery, the working circuit is as in fig.4.
According the accepted electricity science, we can agree it still not makes aby sense. And out of question to chalenge anyone's statement here. Just pointing out that we may drop this too soon without understanding the whole. Or maybe I'm missing something...?...

Regards.

Offline clone477

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #321 on: September 21, 2008, 05:41:09 AM »
Wattsup,
I have tried putting a coil around the spark gap I was using, and sure enough there was a huge spike of voltage from the coil.  Im at the limit of my meter at this point, I cant read any higher than 100volts.  The high voltage probes I see on Ebay, will they work with any meter, and is that the  best way for me to read these high voltages?? 

I have tried using a commutator from a motor as the switching device.  I simply cut off from the windings back, and soldered the wires of each section of commutators 180 degrees to the other commutator.  I was not geeting the same output on my sparkgap??  So I figured maybe the brushes were wider than one commutator strip, and therefore the circuit was never getting shut off for the correct 50%-50% duty cycle.  So I decided to double up the commutator bars.  I soldered two for ON, and the next two for OFF.  This would give me less cycles per revolution.  This did not seem to work well either, my spark gap was not arking.    BUT as soon as a disconnected the commutator, and just tapped the two connects with my test lead, my spark gap would fire no problem.  So for some reason I dont understand, that idea did not work for me as much as I thought it should of.

So I have now build this for the controller to attach to my motor.  I have used two ABS reluctor rings from a car with ABS brakes.  There are perfectly spaced, and will provide a 50% off on cycle.  Also there are 54 teeth on the one that is not modified, and on the other I cut off every other tooth, so I would have 27. Spinning this in my electric drill at certain speeds, probably lower harmonic of the discharge circuit, I am able to have the spark gap fire almost conitually.  Tomarrow I plan on filling all the gaps of the rings with fiberglass resin, the bring the ring to my macinist to have a perfectly smooth serface for my brushed to run along.  Here are some pictures.

I have also ordered flat copper strapping to wind my primary of my transformer.  I want to get this all tuned and in resonance.  Because if Im getting this output with the whole system not even tuned, I cant imagine what it would produced tuned. 

After my primary inductance is determined, then I can figure out how many RPM's the motor will have to spin, the size of my primary cap, and finally the 1/4 wave and capacitance of my secondary.  Once this is work, I plan on building a Tesla's bifiar coil for the secondary to combine the cap and windings. 

Is there any problem at all feeding this HV and HF back to our source/batteries??  Does this damage the batteries, should be downconvert this for that purpose??  With the system running there are huge spikes going back to the battery, I know this from hooking my volt meter and osiliscope to the battery.  So I know the source is being feed back power while the whole system is running.  I still havent decided what to do with the seconday out, I know Tesla ran motors, lights, ect.  But ideally I would like to have this go back to the source, for my electric car application it would put use to al that extra output. 

Offline clone477

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #322 on: September 21, 2008, 05:47:08 AM »
Had to resize the pics....

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #323 on: September 21, 2008, 06:25:30 PM »
@clone477

Regarding your commutator, I have posted a photo here on one I made and it works when coupled to another motor, but I think the choice of the commutator size is relative to the actual specs of the motor you are taking it from, hence the overall resistance of the commutator and the brush wires. This particular motor is pretty robust 90vdc-6000 rpm. There is no amperage rating or hp rating on it but I would easily give it  2 amps rating, easy, so at least this commutator can pass a good 180 watts without creating any undue resistance. The photo is here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5144.msg119281.html#msg119281

Regarding the coil around the spark gap, this is great news because it touches upon something I posted on another thread regarding producing RE and having is spin inside a dual layer coil. lol I will have to try it myself to see.

But in general, if you look higher up on this thread page, I put a photo of a set-up using my pulse wheel, photo PW-Test2-Cb.jpg, and you will see behind the volt meter showing 25.46 vdc, the meter is leaning on a big capacitor that is 1200 volts 88mf that I bought on ebay for 20 bucks. This is the capacitor I always use as an energy grabbing tank by simply passing the output positive through a diode then to the capacitor. This will enable you to see a regulated voltage rise from your spikes.

So imagine if the primary/secondary is producing output and you can also add any collected output from the spark gap all this will add to the overall output. Hmmmmm. Also, a coil on the spark gap could be a feedback signal to reset a pulsing circuit or fed back into the primary of the spark gap producing coil itself as a loop.

@barbosi

Thanks for all those diagram mods.

I finally figured out that there was another wire going from the battery positive side to the capacitor positive, hence the lamp was connected direct to the the battery and parallel to the capacitor and the rest of the circuit.

But get this. I recharged my two batteries back up to a total of 34 volts dc. I removed everything from the battery terminals and connected the lamp directly to the battery. The battery voltage started going down about .1 volts every 12-15 seconds, the lamp was warm to the touch as before. But before, when the circuit was connected (and also add a wire from battery positive to capacitor) the voltage stayed there for hours. This is surely something very weird and this was why I wanted to post the diagram. But then I did not realize those two wires were there. Geez.

I know from experience that the diode from the secondary coils is a very high voltage one at is does leak backwards since I have seen voltage drop off my cap tank, but I cannot figure out why this effect is happenning. I wil have to do some more tests with this.

Offline clone477

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #324 on: September 23, 2008, 06:27:42 AM »
Wattsup and all,
After you pointing out your thread about using an armature for the controller, it did seem like a much better idea, it is deisned to tranfer electricity.  So I made another controller out of the same motor I am using, an extra one of course.  What I did was removed the commutator from the spare motor, and pressed it on my original motor that is powered by the batteries.  Then my driving motor and controller are all on the same shaft.  Nice and compact.  I will attach pics.  My problem is that it heats up very quick while operating.   Maybe 2 minutes worth of run time, thats not right.  Second, it drains the batter quickly. 

I have a couple things I wanted to ask,

1. My motor is a 120volt AC motor, but have the same wiring configuration as Teslas Ozone patent, is this a problem if I run it at 120VDC???  I didnt think so??

2.  In the oringal motor before disassembly, it had a bearing on one side and a bushing on the other.  Since I essencialy attached two motors together, I used both bushing supports and did not use the bearings to support the shafts, maybe causing to much friction??

3.  My controller commutator is turning black, from overheating, and the whole room begins to smell after 1/2hour of testing, could it be drawing to much current, Maybe to much resistance from the choking coil??  I didnt measure to check??

4.  Lastly the controller when running at 120volts worth of DC batteries, spins very quickly(which is normal with the higher voltage) but arcs very bad,  you see lines of electricity around the controller(commuator), is this normal. 


I thought this setup was perfect, but it does not work good.  I going to try this once more using this motor setup.  Ill go buy two more motors tomarrow, and instead of disassembling them all, I will just thread the end shafts and join them with a extended nut.  This way I could eliminate all the bearsin causing excess friction. 

I trulely think a relay beging fed by a reluctor rind and sensor is the best way to do this, it makes a good contact everytime.  I dont know at this point??  Any suggestions from anyone.  Any suggestion on how to make a good working model, I mean wi already know Tesla's Ozone Patent works great.

Thanks guys Fern

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #325 on: September 23, 2008, 07:17:55 AM »
Wattsup and all,
After you pointing out your thread about using an armature for the controller, it did seem like a much better idea, it is deisned to tranfer electricity.  So I made another controller out of the same motor I am using, an extra one of course.  What I did was removed the commutator from the spare motor, and pressed it on my original motor that is powered by the batteries.  Then my driving motor and controller are all on the same shaft.  Nice and compact.  I will attach pics.  My problem is that it heats up very quick while operating.   Maybe 2 minutes worth of run time, thats not right.  Second, it drains the batter quickly. 

I have a couple things I wanted to ask,

1. My motor is a 120volt AC motor, but have the same wiring configuration as Teslas Ozone patent, is this a problem if I run it at 120VDC???  I didnt think so??

2.  In the oringal motor before disassembly, it had a bearing on one side and a bushing on the other.  Since I essencialy attached two motors together, I used both bushing supports and did not use the bearings to support the shafts, maybe causing to much friction??

3.  My controller commutator is turning black, from overheating, and the whole room begins to smell after 1/2hour of testing, could it be drawing to much current, Maybe to much resistance from the choking coil??  I didnt measure to check??

4.  Lastly the controller when running at 120volts worth of DC batteries, spins very quickly(which is normal with the higher voltage) but arcs very bad,  you see lines of electricity around the controller(commuator), is this normal. 


I thought this setup was perfect, but it does not work good.  I going to try this once more using this motor setup.  Ill go buy two more motors tomarrow, and instead of disassembling them all, I will just thread the end shafts and join them with a extended nut.  This way I could eliminate all the bearsin causing excess friction. 

I trulely think a relay beging fed by a reluctor rind and sensor is the best way to do this, it makes a good contact everytime.  I dont know at this point??  Any suggestions from anyone.  Any suggestion on how to make a good working model, I mean wi already know Tesla's Ozone Patent works great.

Thanks guys Fern

Nice looking shunt motor,

Notice on the patent that connected to the shunt motor aside from the commutator, there was a separate circuit controller controlled by the spin of the motor. In reality, this is not worth your time doing, it will take machining skills to do anything worth while. You can make any sort of circuit controller you want, but there is no need to make them until you decide on what the ratios will be on the other components. Resonance people, if you ever built a tesla coil, you should know what this is about, and not just anyone a correctly tuned one. You guys are designing the guitar pick, when you should be working on getting it tuned.

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #326 on: September 23, 2008, 03:11:06 PM »
@clone447

I think @armagdn03 is right on the tuning aspect. The whole point of the Tesla Ozone Patent is to show the relationships between low voltage, capacitance, high induction, low induction and high voltage.

You have a very good idea on mounting a second commutator on that motor. I tried to do that also with a bigger motor but was impossible to get it off the first one. Maybe I should try again. Maybe with a flywheel puller. lol

First of all it may be good to see how you have connected your circuit so if you can draw out a small diagram, this would be helpful. Please show the ohmage of the motor coil and your transformer primary and secondary voltage/amps ratings as well as their ohmage values.

For the capacitor, try and find a capacitor in the range of 47mf and 200-400 volts or more. If your capacitance is much higher then this, your commutator will create more sparks.

Also, don't run this at 120 volts dc since the resulting spikes will be very high and the commutator will get normally much hotter.  Also at 120 volts the motor will probably turn too fast for the circuit to react inductively. Use only 12-24 volts dc to start.

An AC motor can be run with dc if it is pulsed DC. The pulsing will happen when your commutator shorts the circuit. You may need to manually turn it to get it started.

Just in case, here is how to wire it up.

1) Connect one side of the switching commutator with one side of the capacitor to the battery positive.
2) Connect other side of capacitor to the one side of the primary of your working transformer.
3) Connect other side of working transformer to the other side of the switching commutator and to one side of the motor coil.
4) Now when you  connect the other side of the motor coil to ground, the motor should start turning.

You can put a manual on/off switch on the positive or negative of the battery.

If the motor coil does not have enough inductive capacity to help charge the capacitor, you may need to add another coil in series with the motor coil. This can be the secondary coil of most any good size 110vac/12vac or 220vac/24vac transformer.

Hope this helps.

Offline sparks

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #327 on: September 23, 2008, 04:39:49 PM »
    Commutation in a series wound motor must first short the coil by bridging the two commutator bars attached to the coil undercommutation.  Then reverse the current through the coil.  The brushes are designed only for the amount of energy involved in this coil by coil process not the entire motor current.  Very often windings are placed in series with the main field coils to magnetically cancel the commutating coil on the armature to take the heat off the brushes.
  Hope you can use some of this information. :)

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #328 on: September 23, 2008, 08:35:16 PM »
@clone447

I think @armagdn03 is right on the tuning aspect. The whole point of the Tesla Ozone Patent is to show the relationships between low voltage, capacitance, high induction, low induction and high voltage.

You have a very good idea on mounting a second commutator on that motor. I tried to do that also with a bigger motor but was impossible to get it off the first one. Maybe I should try again. Maybe with a flywheel puller. lol

First of all it may be good to see how you have connected your circuit so if you can draw out a small diagram, this would be helpful. Please show the ohmage of the motor coil and your transformer primary and secondary voltage/amps ratings as well as their ohmage values.

For the capacitor, try and find a capacitor in the range of 47mf and 200-400 volts or more. If your capacitance is much higher then this, your commutator will create more sparks.

Also, don't run this at 120 volts dc since the resulting spikes will be very high and the commutator will get normally much hotter.  Also at 120 volts the motor will probably turn too fast for the circuit to react inductively. Use only 12-24 volts dc to start.

An AC motor can be run with dc if it is pulsed DC. The pulsing will happen when your commutator shorts the circuit. You may need to manually turn it to get it started.

Just in case, here is how to wire it up.

1) Connect one side of the switching commutator with one side of the capacitor to the battery positive.
2) Connect other side of capacitor to the one side of the primary of your working transformer.
3) Connect other side of working transformer to the other side of the switching commutator and to one side of the motor coil.
4) Now when you  connect the other side of the motor coil to ground, the motor should start turning.

You can put a manual on/off switch on the positive or negative of the battery.

If the motor coil does not have enough inductive capacity to help charge the capacitor, you may need to add another coil in series with the motor coil. This can be the secondary coil of most any good size 110vac/12vac or 220vac/24vac transformer.

Hope this helps.

The motor shown in that pic is a shunt or "universal" motor, it will run off of pure DC, Pulsed DC or AC, with no special wiring needed.

Offline clone477

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #329 on: September 24, 2008, 07:43:59 PM »
Thanks for the replies guys.  I have hooked up as per Tesla's patent, also Ive have used a max of 47uf for the cap but have noticed that a smaller value produced more output from my transformer.  After digging aliitle deeper into this I thought how the hell did telsa do this switch, he didnt use a commutator and brushes, all that sparking is lost power/energy.  Then I found 5 patents for circuit controllers that I never paid any attention to.  It those patents he explains how important it is to ABRUPTLY make and break the circuit, WITHOUT any sparking.  On my commutator design, I had a ring of sparks travelling around atleast half of the commutator, very inefficient.  That also explains why before I said I got a larger out put spark when just tapping my two test leads together to make and break the circuit, instead of using the commutator.  By tapping I was makking and breaking the connection more abruptly.  Anyways, after looking at the controller they do not look very simple to replicate, although that will not stop me from trying.  I think we should all start trying to replicate that controller first as the patents says, because it was designed for this purpose to make the Ozone patent very effiecent when running.  Let me know what you guys think.  Fern