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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 236392 times)

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #300 on: September 09, 2008, 02:59:13 AM »
@hydrocontrol

I don't think that video is from Erfinder. If I am not mistaken, the word Erfinder means inventor and is widely used in German.

As for this thread, I was thinking of this also, to get it going again.

In my experiments, I use the @allcanadian circuit and the Erfinder circuit as a standard methods. I have done so many experiments and now it is to the point where even before testing a coil, I can already know the result and testing is just confirming. This is because I am always using these two tests as a base, before doing other methods and this gives me a standard point of comparison.

I am tired of using relays and solid states to pulse. Granted pulsing is not the same when you do it a low speed compared to high speed, but the higher speeds are only possible with SS components that just hate anything that has to do with flyback. lol Unless I find a pulsing system that is crystal based or some other materials that don't just fiz out when things start getting interesting.

So I am going to work out a system that will function at low pulses, more induction, more energy movement,  more flyback return but at a slower rate. More like a pendulum and less like a bullet. Newman does it a slow speeds. Many of Teslas patents are at slow speeds.

Anyways, I found a  nice small dc motor that was all pre-mounted on a small gear box and already had a large wheel. So I made some grooves in the wheel and put a contact on it and I can now get low speed pulses without a relay or SS hassles. So more fun is ahead.

Offline clone477

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #301 on: September 09, 2008, 03:16:30 AM »
@hydrocontrol

I don't think that video is from Erfinder. If I am not mistaken, the word Erfinder means inventor and is widely used in German.

As for this thread, I was thinking of this also, to get it going again.

In my experiments, I use the @allcanadian circuit and the Erfinder circuit as a standard methods. I have done so many experiments and now it is to the point where even before testing a coil, I can already know the result and testing is just confirming. This is because I am always using these two tests as a base, before doing other methods and this gives me a standard point of comparison.

I am tired of using relays and solid states to pulse. Granted pulsing is not the same when you do it a low speed compared to high speed, but the higher speeds are only possible with SS components that just hate anything that has to do with flyback. lol Unless I find a pulsing system that is crystal based or some other materials that don't just fiz out when things start getting interesting.

So I am going to work out a system that will function at low pulses, more induction, more energy movement,  more flyback return but at a slower rate. More like a pendulum and less like a bullet. Newman does it a slow speeds. Many of Teslas patents are at slow speeds.

Anyways, I found a  nice small dc motor that was all pre-mounted on a small gear box and already had a large wheel. So I made some grooves in the wheel and put a contact on it and I can now get low speed pulses without a relay or SS hassles. So more fun is ahead.

I though I would post here also...

Wattsup, its nice to see you still interested in this project.  Yesterday I spend 6 hours reading through all 9 pages to fully understand.  I am now ready to start building.  I want to get this working, and I have a Chevrolet Colorado that is converted to electric.  And it just so happens it has a series wound DC motor as the drive motor.  I want to eventually apply this to that.  Tesla never charged batteries with these circuits as far as I can tell, but he always ran motors or light or loads, ect.  I think there has to be a way to feedback that secondary capacitor discharge to feed the motor.  Have you tried a bifilar to replace the secondary and capacitor??  Talk to you later man.  Fern

Offline clone477

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #302 on: September 10, 2008, 06:40:08 AM »
I wanted to shine some light on this project as I havent slept much the last week, because of all the reading Ive done over the patents and the Colorado Spring Notes.  Id appriciate some feedback Erfinder or the others who were actively involved.  I have totally grasped the theory behind the operation of the ozone patents and the others that erfinder has listed for referance.  A couple important things I learned....

1.  As Erfinder has stated, The primary capacitor has to be small, he says that if we were relying on the source voltage to charge the capacitor then we would need a larger capacitor.  But since we are using the inductive collapse of the windings(and/or choking coil), a smaller and inexpensive one will work fine.

2.  He also says that choking coils may be omitted(which we know) if there is sufficent inductance in the field windings of the motor.  He continues that...."So to, the nessesity of a condenser, is avoided when the circuit itself possess sufficient capacitance to accomplish the desirded result"  He is talking about a bifilar winding which ERfinder also mention.  But I belive Tesla was referring to the primary winding and condenser, and/or the secondary winding and condenser.

3. In patent 568178, He say in order to charge and discharge the primary winding/cap MOST EFFECTIVELY, the frequency of the impressed impulses(by the speed of the motor or number of make and breaks on the controler) should have a definite related to the vibration of the circiut it self(tank circuit and impulse speed must be the same frequency or a harmonic of).  He continues..."ANY DEPARTURE FROM THIS CONDITION IN A DECRESSED OUTPUT"
He says the best way to do this is to adjust the speed of the motor.

4.  Tesla Quote..."IN ORDER TO SECURE THE GREATEST EFFIECENCY,  IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THE CIRCUITS SHOULD BE APPROXIMATELY IN RESONANCE"
He continues..." MOREOVER, IN ORDER TO OBTAIN THE GREATEST OUTPUT FROM THIS MACHINE AND ITS KIND, IT IS DESIRED TO OBTAIN THE HIGHEST FREQUENCY POSSIBLE"

5.  Patent 577670, shows the same setup as the double rely system that ERfinder has shown everyone. 


Something really confuses me.  After reading the Ozone patent 100 times, I read something interesting under what he claim is the purpose of the invention....

"A device for producing ozone comprising in combination, surfaces between which an electrical discharge takes place, a transformer for producing the potential necessary for such discharge, a condenser in the primary circuit 6o of the transformer, a charging-circuit, means for charging the condenser by such circuit and discharging it through the primary of the transformer, a motor operated by the charging-circuit, and a device operated thereby 65 for maintaining a current of air between the discharge-surfaces, as set forth..."
 
He states that one of the purposes is to run the motor by the charging circuit??  Does this mean that the charging circuit(motor field coils) runs the motor which is obvious, or does he mean that the output from the secondary is ment to be feedback to run the motor, making it more efficient as I think ERfind also mentioned??

Lastly Id like for people to read Tesla Colorado Spring Notes where he played with regenerative circuits in Aug I believe.  Here is a link to one of the recievers....

 http://www.teslasociety.com/teslarec.pdf

That is a feedback regenerative circuit, the basis of he radiant energy collector, and to me, that circuit looks identical to the ozone patent, minus the senitive device "A".  I dont know what he means by that senitive device.  Anyways to me this show that maybe we should be feeding back the bifilar secondary of the ozone circuit to somewhere in the charging circuit, maybe across the primary.  I have not been able to figure out how this would work though to increase efficency of the motor??  I know it will give a stronger output on the secondary if all is timed correctly.

ERFINDER this is where I couold use your superior knowledge.  Pleased tune in and tell me if I got anything right.  And I appreciate you bringing this patent to life for me. 

Well its getting late, Im going blind and Im sure my spelling is geting real bad.  So goodnight everyone.  Fern ;D

Offline wings

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #303 on: September 10, 2008, 09:46:53 AM »
water pump TEP technology


http://jlnlabs.online.fr/hep/index.htm

wings

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #304 on: September 11, 2008, 04:27:56 AM »
@clone477
Quote
1.  As Erfinder has stated, The primary capacitor has to be small, he says that if we were relying on the source voltage to charge the capacitor then we would need a larger capacitor.  But since we are using the inductive collapse of the windings(and/or choking coil), a smaller and inexpensive one will work fine.
The inductive discharge potential (voltage) is a function of the resistance to the discharge, a smaller condenser will charge faster than a large one thus the resistance rises faster and a greater potential develops.

Quote
2.  He also says that choking coils may be omitted(which we know) if there is sufficent inductance in the field windings of the motor.  He continues that...."So to, the nessesity of a condenser, is avoided when the circuit itself possess sufficient capacitance to accomplish the desirded result"  He is talking about a bifilar winding which ERfinder also mention.  But I belive Tesla was referring to the primary winding and condenser, and/or the secondary winding and condenser.
What is the desired result? to charge a capacitance to a high potential
What is a capacitor? a device which stores energy in the form of a electrostatic field, the higher the potential the less surface area reqired to store a given amount of energy. A capacitor could be seen as a resilient media which when disturbed has the ability to form oscillations within itself, the properties of these oscillations effecting the circuit as a whole.

Quote
3. In patent 568178, He say in order to charge and discharge the primary winding/cap MOST EFFECTIVELY, the frequency of the impressed impulses(by the speed of the motor or number of make and breaks on the controler) should have a definite related to the vibration of the circiut it self(tank circuit and impulse speed must be the same frequency or a harmonic of).  He continues..."ANY DEPARTURE FROM THIS CONDITION IN A DECRESSED OUTPUT"
He says the best way to do this is to adjust the speed of the motor.
We can equate this with pushing a swing, there is one exact moment and only one where the applied energy impulse (the push) will be "most" effective.

Quote
4.  Tesla Quote..."IN ORDER TO SECURE THE GREATEST EFFIECENCY,  IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THE CIRCUITS SHOULD BE APPROXIMATELY IN RESONANCE"
He continues..." MOREOVER, IN ORDER TO OBTAIN THE GREATEST OUTPUT FROM THIS MACHINE AND ITS KIND, IT IS DESIRED TO OBTAIN THE HIGHEST FREQUENCY POSSIBLE"
We know from the swing example why resonance is important, but why the highest frequency possible? An EE might tell you the capacitive reactance decreases with a rising frequency as the inductive reactance increases so a capacitance, whatever the capacitance may be in relation to the circuit, has a greater efficiency at higher frequencies. So here we could assume the goal is to increase the efficiency of any reactions concerning a capacitance in any form this capacitance may take, be it capacitance of any two or more conductors seperated by a distance with air inbetween them, the capacitance between any two or more conductors seperated by an insulator/dielectric of some sort or any media in which a potential difference exists between them. But why? two words---electrostatic induction.

Quote
5.  Patent 577670, shows the same setup as the double rely system that ERfinder has shown everyone.

You will find many of Teslas patents have the same theme, the question is why? I believe these patents were filed for one simple reason, to provide a record of Teslas achievements for those who are ready to understand the true nature of energy beyond the scope of what any textbook could possibly tell us. If some intellectual tells you the patents purpose is obvious, ask him why nobody can seem to duplicate it, ask him why nobody can produce results even remotely close to what Tesla claimed and demonstrated before many people of impecable character. When you understand this patent 568177, the purpose and you can replicate it you will understand many things not found in any textbook--anywhere.
Best Regards
« Last Edit: September 11, 2008, 05:12:09 AM by allcanadian »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #305 on: September 13, 2008, 01:51:57 AM »
@allcanadian and everyone,

Sorry for the intrusion but I found an interesting circuit effect today and started a topic in the Tesla section to share it and would like all your help to see if it's a real and useful effect. Please have a look and post your comments there.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5542.0/topicseen.html

Thanks

Luc

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #306 on: September 13, 2008, 08:57:32 AM »
@GUYS

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON WITH WHAT I JUST DID BUT.....HERE GOES...

SHIT, I AM SURE THIS IS NOT NORMAL.

OK, I have taken the time to let this circuit run for the last 4 hours.

I set-up my new pulser wheel with one of my toroidal transformers. Since my switch is a SPDT, I used it to simply take the 24 volts from my two batteries and pulse them alternatively into the transformer, then pass the secondary through a diode to my biggest holding capacitor, then through another diode back to the positive of the battery. I also put a 120vac 100w light bulb parallel to the cap.

I pressed theo start button and the wheel turned for about 10 seconds and voltage went up to 68 volts on the cap. I then switched the light bulb on and voltage went down to around 25 volts. I then switched the start button to off and stopped the wheel. But it has been that way for four hours now and voltage on the battery had not gone down. I know for a fact that my system never did this before. The light is lit as shown below and it is hot to the touch. You cannot hold it for more then a second.

When I stopped the system, the wheel was pushing in the switch so the NO is connected to Common. Just leaving it alone like this and I cannot figure out why the battery voltage is not going down or at least, why. Plus the start button is at the off position. Shit.

I wanted to put up this diagram to freeze this because I will make a few changes to see what's going on and wanted to make sure I could re-do this one anytime.

My voltage on the batteries is now 32.5vdc.

If you have a dual primary/dual secondary toroidal transformer, please try this, even if you do not have the pulsing, pulse by hand and different caps. Someone, please try this easy set-up. From what I said above, it is obvious that certain parts of the circuit are not even being used and this is what I will do next is to remove those parts and see whats happens.

This is freaky.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #307 on: September 13, 2008, 05:05:37 PM »

4.  Tesla Quote..."IN ORDER TO SECURE THE GREATEST EFFIECENCY,  IT IS ESSENTIAL THAT THE CIRCUITS SHOULD BE APPROXIMATELY IN RESONANCE"
He continues..." MOREOVER, IN ORDER TO OBTAIN THE GREATEST OUTPUT FROM THIS MACHINE AND ITS KIND, IT IS DESIRED TO OBTAIN THE HIGHEST FREQUENCY POSSIBLE"


There are two explanations for this statement:

The first is that the voltage in the secondary of an air-core transformer is related to the frequency in the primary:

2Pi X Frequency X mutual inductance X current in primary = voltage in secondary

So, The higher the frequency, the higher the voltage - of course there are other considerations.  The mutual inductance is where the coupling factor comes into play.

--------------------------

The second explanation is this comment that Tesla made in regard to the discharge of a condenser:

Quote
Counsel

I understood a little while ago when you made the statement of using several thousand horsepower put into a condenser, you could take out of the condenser a million horsepower.  I wondered if you got the same condition with this machine.

Tesla

Yes; I charged the condenser with 40,000 volts.  When it was charged full, I discharged it suddenly, through a short circuit which gave me a very rapid rate of oscillation.  Let us suppose that I had stored in the condenser 10 watts.  Then, for such a wave there is a flux of energy of (4 x 104)^2, and this is multiplied by the frequency of 100,000.  You see, it may go into thousands or millions of horsepower.  
Counsel

What I wanted to get at was, did that depend upon the suddenness of the discharge?

Tesla

Yes.  It is merely the electrical analogue of a pile driver or a hammer.  You accumulate energy through a long distance and then you deliver it with a tremendous suddenness.  The distance through which the mass moves is small—the pressure immense.

Counsel

Did you find that that was the best condition for transmitting energy without the use of wire?

Tesla

No, I did not use that method when I was transmitting energy.  I used it only in the production of those freaks for which I have been called a magician.  If I had used merely undamped waves, I would have been an ordinary electrician like everybody else.


-------------------------

I'd sure like to know how the (4 x 104)^2 was derived.

Offline sparks

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #308 on: September 13, 2008, 07:42:29 PM »
@Grumpy

  is that 40,000  squared   - (4times10to the fourth)squared times the frequency.
Tesla states in this formula that the wattage stored in the capacitor is in the form of space charge or aether charge and is a massless phenomenon.    No amperage investment here resulting in inertial leakage of the power.  Just space stressing.  I believe the capacitor referred to was his bifilar coil one.  The impedance of this coil resulting in capacitance instead of loss. 

@wattsup

     It could be that your contact is arcing.  This results in highfrequency pulsing of the circuit.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #309 on: September 13, 2008, 07:59:39 PM »
Sparks,

No, thats (4 x 104) squared.  He does not say how 10 watts and 40,000 volts equates to this equation.

Looking at the image of the patent and the test with it.  It appears that the two controllers are synchronous, but do not have the same break rate.  The drawing shows that the motor controller "E" has 4 times as many sections as the circuit controller "H".  I believe I said initially that the two controllers alternated - I now retract this comment.  I believe now that the two are synchronous and that "E" and "H" are activated at a rate of 4:1 respectively.  After all - Tesla use different commutators for a reason.

If anyone has results that indicate otherwise - please share them.


Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #310 on: September 14, 2008, 12:33:51 AM »

No, thats (4 x 104) squared.  He does not say how 10 watts and 40,000 volts equates to this equation.


Hi Grumpy,

I attached a copy of some part of page 66 from CSN where Tesla used voltage squared times frequency for estimating the power taken out from a capacitor so I guess the result of 40,0002 x 200,000 should give the rough approximation for the power taken out from a capacitor at the 100,000Hz frequency rate.  (In the example of that page Tesla used 300 as the frequency multiplier for 150 cycles/seconds in the equation, this is why I wrote 200,000 instead of the 100,000Hz)

I think from the 10W he mentioned as the initially stored energy in his capacitor (and in fact it is 10J or 10Ws), and the 40,000V we can calculate the value of the that capacitor, this comes out as 12.5nF.  Now if we substitute this into the right hand side of his equation, we get 2,000,000 W. This amount of power could come out for a time duration of 1/100000 sec from this 12.5nF capacitor which initially stored 10J energy in the form of 40,000V and we suddenly discharged it for that tiny time duration.

Hope I did not make mistakes... :)

Member Sparks also wrote about the voltage squared frequency and I can only agree with him.

EDIT  I think I would rather use 100,000 for the frequency instead of the 200,000 in the equation. Then the received output from the 12.5nF capacitor is 1,000,000 W during the 1/100000 sec time duration. This way the initial 10Ws stored in the cap can remain valid.


rgds,  Gyula

Offline sparks

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #311 on: September 14, 2008, 01:09:56 AM »
gyulason,

    Tesla state that there is horsepower gain.  The discharge of the capacitor is done so that there is an oscillation of energy.  Each oscillation resulting in the charge and discharge of the capacitor.  How he measured this horsepower is somewhat of a mystery.  Perhaps a high frequency transformer in the lines between the cap and the short bar.  The primary in series with the tank and the secondary driving a secondary load?

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #312 on: September 14, 2008, 11:11:12 AM »
Hi Sparks,

I apologize but would you show me a link or refer to a text where Tesla states horsepower gain? I mainly agree with what you mentioning but I cannot grasp where a gain could come from.

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline clone477

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #313 on: September 17, 2008, 03:05:43 PM »
I had a question about this...
I always was under the impression that when the primary capacitor was charged, and the cvontroller closes, the circuit becomes a parellel tank circuit between the primary of the transformer and the primary cap.  Thats why I could never understand how this would make a effiecent motor.  But when you say it is a series LC circuit it then makes perfect sense how it would work.  It looks like to me that this can be either a parellel or series LC circuit.  Series being most benificial to us.  Does the series circuit take over instead of the parellel circuit??  This is the last part that is really confusing me.  Thanks guys


Have another look, and then another, and another.....The fly back as you call it does not go through the controller to the capacitor!  This is impossible!  The controller closes and current from the source is supplied to the circuits of high self-induction, and low self-induction.  The switch then opens, and the current supplying the motor (high self-induction circuit) is interrupted, this causes the motor coils to produce the discharge current (fly back also known as inductive kick), let us not forget the switch is open, and as such the developed discharge current cannot flow through the controller, as in this instant the controller is not offering a conductive path! 

Coils D, and F of motor C are connected in series with primary M via brush G of circuit controller H.  Primary M is connected in series with one leg of capacitor L.  What we have here is a series resonant circuit, where the large inductance and the capacitor are the main components and the primary is a very small addition to the circuits resistance.  This is the discharge path! In truth when the field of the high self-induction circuit collapses, the potential of the primary, and capacitor are raised at the same time as the motor coils are raised,  owing to their relation to the high self-induction circuit!   

There is much more to it then that, however that is the general idea.  The secondary, is the gateway into the working circuit!  From the secondary on we are dealing with a different quality of electricity, from this point on resonance truly is king, from this point on one must comprehend the role of self-inductance, and understand how and why it is at times needed, and at others not wanted in the circuit.  Some would say that I am not qualified to make such statements, I only have one thing to say to those individuals... :-*...

The capacitor connected to the secondary is not just any old capacitor, it is selected specifically for its ability to cancel the self-induction of the secondary.  With self-induction out of the way the only opposition to current flow is ohmic resistance!  This capacitor is charged and discharged abruptly into the primary of a second transformer, the load is connected to this transformers secondary.

Its all in the patents friends!  Review them.  Know them!


Regards

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #314 on: September 17, 2008, 10:52:43 PM »
@all

If there are any coil freaks out there, check out this ebay seller's store.

http://showcase.inkfrog.com/wowsurplus/?page=5&type=0&from=ebay&search_param=&search_key=&page=0

I just bought a nice dc pulse generator and am  looking to buy a second one. Some can go as really high in the mhz.