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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 215099 times)

Offline lancaIV

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #165 on: March 13, 2008, 11:50:38 AM »
http://alexfrolov.narod.ru/s-wire.htm

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=DE3006520&F=0&QPN=DE3006520
go to description and "Translate this text"

~DE19934143,Erich Mehnert
Wikipedia + XYZ : Ferdinand Braun "Hallwachs-Effekt-tum"

Compton : Analyze  the "espacenet-containment"  " Manfred Gregor "


"O-revoar"
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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #165 on: March 13, 2008, 11:50:38 AM »

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #166 on: March 13, 2008, 05:13:54 PM »
@AC

Thanks for all your explanations and also thanks to the others too. I feel like I just went on a great trip and just returned with Erfinders hint to get back to the basics. I think Erfinder is right though because we can veer off into many lines of observation and it would be best to keep it as simple and as directed to the EC as possible. But that is almost impossible with all these great minds (mine not included). So anyways, I have changed my system back to Erfs build so I can discover more of this with the relay inline.

But just to explain something here, I was sorta stuck on @ACs circuit because to get it to pulse with another relay on another source was presenting to be a problem. If I wanted my relay to work with the absolute control of the on/off motion, I would still require a choke, a cap and another primary to create the whole structure required and just to do this, I had to use all the relay connections to do so leaving none for the switching for @ACs circuit. This means I would need a double-pole-triple-throw relay to have an extra switch just for @ACs circuit. But for now, I want to go back to Erfs build. I think the animation as it stands now seems rather correct and will jump on it again when I have more time.

@Localjoe

I think @AC is using a rotary switch while I and others are using relays. About the rotary switch, we have to understand also that this rotary style although may seem primitive has four points of contact whereas the relay has two. So the impact of switching is spread over four points which would mean it would last much longer then relay contacts. Smart.

@How to choose a good self-inductive component.

I have a question that is more of a "down to Earth question" regarding self-inductance. OK, I'm standing in an EE store in front of a long shelf of new and used transformers, coils, chokes, etc. So what should I be looking for if I wanted to purchase some of these components that offered the maximum self-inductance. This is already a given since I have what I need right now (hopefully),  but let's say I wanted to try some other component types. What values should I be looking for? What values would offer the highest secondary windings? Step up transformers seem to have the best secondaries but they are rare in such EE shops.

@About Teslas one month resonance

Just one question puzzles me about Tesla (well not only one, more like 1000 but) making something oscillate for a month. Erf says .0001 ohms. So, how was Tesla able to observe this effect over 100 years ago. I mean if I had such a circuit going, chances are just the fact that I place a digital meter or a scope probe onto it will kill the effect. So how could he have produced this effect and even worst, observed it to know how long it lasted. It seems to me he would have needed to use some extremely huge coils to be able to withstand any outside probing of the circuit.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #167 on: March 13, 2008, 05:43:02 PM »
@About Teslas one month resonance

Just one question puzzles me about Tesla (well not only one, more like 1000 but) making something oscillate for a month. Erf says .0001 ohms. So, how was Tesla able to observe this effect over 100 years ago. I mean if I had such a circuit going, chances are just the fact that I place a digital meter or a scope probe onto it will kill the effect. So how could he have produced this effect and even worst, observed it to know how long it lasted. It seems to me he would have needed to use some extremely huge coils to be able to withstand any outside probing of the circuit.

Don't quote me, but I think this circuit was in a vacuum and Tesla had made improvements to a Bolometer that made it something like 1 million times more sensitive - something to do with lowering the mass of the components.  Tesla devised many means to make measurements.

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #167 on: March 13, 2008, 05:43:02 PM »
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Offline quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #168 on: March 14, 2008, 04:25:05 AM »
Sorry, going to interrupt here, my spark gap is firing again…

@ armagdn03 – I hate to say it, but your so wrong. Your wise in many things but this is not one of them. Each chemical element has it’s own fundamental vibrational frequencies.  Gases show this best when excited with electrical energy at specific frequencies. A spectroscope is a device that lets us find out what things are made of. It works by taking light and splitting it up into its component colors. Different elements make different colors when they glow. There are hundreds of devices like this that find an elements or materials fundamental frequency.  I rest my case.

Term: Undamped;  Not tending toward a state of rest; not damped. Used of oscillations. Amplitude does not change over time. Amplitude does not change over time! DC or static field or electrostatic field if you like.

Offline Ren

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #169 on: March 14, 2008, 07:53:33 AM »
Wattsup, I was reading through the pages trying to pick up some more clues when I came across this by Erfinder.

Quote:
The circuit including the motor is of relatively high self-induction, and this property is imparted to it by the coils of the motor, or when these are not sufficient, by the addition of suitable choking-coils...."
End Quote.

This is where the (toroid) transformer comes in.  The secondary of the transformer serves as the choking coil.  This transformer was selected specifically because of the current carrying capability its secondary winding, and its low resistance (mine measures 21.5 ohm).  This coil is a perfect addition to the relay.  Because the current is moving through the motor (resistance of mine measures 141 ohms) of the relay before it enters the choke (secondary) coil, current draw will fluctuates between 0.085 - 0.1 amps.  (Low current draw due to the high resistance of the relay motor coil.) The primary of this transformer is not used.

Did you pick up on this when you first did your tests? I noticed you originally had your primary and secondary around the "wrong" way, but that it gave you good results (in charging the cap anyway).

So how do we configure this if the primary of this transformer is not used? Does the primary of the transformer still serve a path to the small cap as per AC's diagram?

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #169 on: March 14, 2008, 07:53:33 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #170 on: March 14, 2008, 01:33:39 PM »
@Ren

My current build is as shown here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3972.msg77661.html#msg77661
The choke I am using is the secondary of one of my two purchased toroids. I have used many transformer secondaries just to see the differences in performance.

Using the primary side as indicate there, I am working now on the second relay side for the working circuit.

AC had wound his own choke using the secondary wire of a microwave transformer. I have one of them but I think I will wind my choke as Erfinder once hinted as a bifilar.

@all

Freaky thing though. Yesterday I posted on this thread;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3403.msg82396.html#msg82396
something I had noticed because my battery was all the way down below the 8.8 lever required to activate my relay.

I don't know why or what I did but today my battery has one up to now 13.3 volts just by leaving the whole system dormant, all connected but the main pushbutton is off so there is no production on the secondary side. The pushbutton being off disconnects the positive side of the battery but all of the negative side is still connected. The voltage just went up to that point now 13.4. I am so puzzled about this. What the f*&k is going on here?

Added:

I had switched out my microwave transformer for my second toroid transformer that is identical to the one I use as my choke. This transformer was placed on my battery  to use less desk space. I had also switched out my huge capacitor on the working side for a DC 27000uf 40vdc cap connected as per my trial #3 without any relay yet on the system. I also have a wire going from the positive of this capacitor to the positive of battery. Voltage on the battery is 13.4 and voltage off the working capacitor is 7.42 and holding steady. Tonight, I think I will have to document this with a circuit diagram because I think the connection from the positive working cap to the positive battery is causing an internal circuit cycling that I cannot really see.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #171 on: March 14, 2008, 05:17:14 PM »
Sorry, going to interrupt here, my spark gap is firing again?

@ armagdn03 ? I hate to say it, but your so wrong. Your wise in many things but this is not one of them. Each chemical element has it?s own fundamental vibrational frequencies.  Gases show this best when excited with electrical energy at specific frequencies. A spectroscope is a device that lets us find out what things are made of. It works by taking light and splitting it up into its component colors. Different elements make different colors when they glow. There are hundreds of devices like this that find an elements or materials fundamental frequency.  I rest my case.

Term: Undamped;  Not tending toward a state of rest; not damped. Used of oscillations. Amplitude does not change over time. Amplitude does not change over time! DC or static field or electrostatic field if you like.


Hmmmm, Im glad you are reading closely and questioning, but maybe you should go over something twice before posting.  my exact quote:


If there were one frequency to the fundamental unit of matter, then all matter would be the same element! see what im saying? you aren't off base with the frequency of matter deal, just don't get stuck on thinking there is just one.

My response was directed towards the idea that matter would in and of itself have a fundmeantal frequency. But as you can see from my post above, this would indicate only one element existed. You are quite correct that when excited different elements produce a different spectra of light, this is the technique used in gas chromatography and other forms of chromatography, hence my statement "you aren't off base with the frequency of matter deal, just don't get stuck on thinking there is just one. " The multitude of frequencies each matching to their respective elements is what gives us our rich spectrum of properties.

Another incredibly interesing device is what is known as a Mass Spectrometer, in which a magnetic field is held at 90 degrees to an electric field. Nulei are shot into this field and accelerated due to the impinging forces at a rate of EDcosine theta. the particles are accelerated towards a small opening at the bottom, and the user calibrates the E and B fields so that only nuclei of a certain mass make it through. Once entering the bottom region of the machine, the E field is no longer present and so the particle begins to curve according to the Centripital force law, set equal to the force of a charge in a mag field law giving the equation

radius = (MV/qB)

A detector picks up the radius of the arch, and so we are left with the variables of the Radius, the velocity, the magnetic field strength and the charge of the nuclei solved, thus all we need solve for is the mass of the particle. Through this simple physics we are left with the mass of the particle. What is interesting about this and what should be taken note of, is that a charged particle in a magnetic field will begin to rotate about an invisible axis, the frequency of this rotation is given by the equation 2pi R / velocity (given above). This frequency is not an up down motion like we "see" with our instruments, but rather a circular rotational motion, dictated by the mass of the element, and represented by 2pi R in the equation above (equation for circumference of a circle).

AHHHHH, now thats damn interesting, the mass of the element correlated directly to the frequency of the element, in two totally different machines, (chromatography, and mass spectrometer) and to boot, we are given the "shape" of the frequency and it turns out to be a spiral, all calculated with simple physics terms and equations anybody could manipulate.

What is even more interesting is that the Aurora Borialis and Australius (northern and southern lights) are caused by charged particles entering the earths magnetic  field and beginning a circular rotation of a given frequency outlined above. What is interesting to note here is that the particle is accelerated. Its speed does not change, but its velocity does (remember that velocity is a vector quantity including both magnitude and direction) hence a direction change (as in a rotation) equates to an acceleration. This acceleration gives off energy, exciting the gases in the upper atmosphere, mostly being nitrogen, bit of argon, oxygen and hydrogen. These give us our pretty colors! Here we have chromatography in nature, also those reading should take note that a charged particle in a magnetic field accelerates, though its speed does not change, and it will do so forever if left to its own devices, continually giving off energy...............hmmmmm did modern science just admit to a free energy mechanism found dancing in our skies? Perhaps admit was too strong a word. LOL.

« Last Edit: March 16, 2008, 08:51:59 PM by armagdn03 »

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #171 on: March 14, 2008, 05:17:14 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #172 on: March 14, 2008, 05:38:19 PM »
@ All
I agree let's get back to the basics ;D
Here is an experiment you may like, In Fig 1 our Pri/Sec is replaced with a small 12v Permanent Magnet  DC motor (M), the cap is 4700uF. In this case the motor(M) has a one inch pointer attached to it's shaft to indicate the current direction (spin direction) and duration of current flow (time), the motor is a measurement device. When the circuit controller is open the cap initially charges through L1 and M , M will turn clockwise 180 Degrees, when the circuit controller closes M will reverse direction and turn 180 Degrees counter-clockwise. In this experiment we can see M and C act as a distinct circuit, the charging of L1 occurs through the circuit controller and the discharging of the cap--- two currents. There are no prolonged oscillations in this circuit due to the fact that the capacitor C never charges above source voltage but as soon as a smaller cap is used the oscillations will resume.
What becomes very apparent in this circuit is that the "same" current has travelled through (M) twice, once when the controller was open(Fig 2) and again when the controller closed(Fig 1) and that the current flow in (M) is AC. If we look at the current flow we can also see that the electrical momentum (discharge current) of L1 is acting in the same direction as the source battery when "C" is charging. In general we can say the circuit components are always complementing each others actions making for a very efficient circuit. As well if the motor (M) is replaced with a commutated AC motor the motor will turn in one direction only as it is an AC motor.
Best of luck
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 06:25:54 PM by allcanadian »

Offline am1ll3r

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2008, 09:59:04 PM »
Just wanted to post a quick pic of the circuit controller I made...
Its a motor out of an old HO train and a nut. Its not the greatest but it does work.
My set up is exactly  as the ozone patent and I have come to notice some things.
In the "working" circuit I have tried various caps to cancel the self inductance of the secondary of the transformer and I'm seeing  how the "load" effects the "charging" circuit. My motor will spin fast and then slow down as the cap in the working circuit fills up. Again I know my parts aren't tuned but I am able to vary the speed of the motor (using my finger to slow it down) and I can see by adjusting that one piece of the circuit I see major changes in the working circuit. For instance when I use my 1.1 mF cap from and old microwave and I'm not slowing down the motor the cap will charge up to 90 to 100 V but when I slow down the motor(tune it) I can raise the Voltage up to 300 to 350.
What I'm wondering is when trying to make something useful out of this do you first consider the load then build the rest of the circuit to match it?
Oh and and as wattsup has stated my battery has held the same charge over many days of testing. :D
I still want to dissect the ozone circuit and show it in some sort of animated gif and have an explanation of what happening at all points in one cycle of the circuit.

my $.02 for now  ;D

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/am1ll3r/TeslaOzone/photo#5177689889341068114"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/am1ll3r/R9rZhZNOU1I/AAAAAAAAAD4/nf5mi1OaZSY/s400/DSC05424.JPG" /></a>



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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #173 on: March 14, 2008, 09:59:04 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #174 on: March 15, 2008, 03:00:26 AM »
@AC

I tried it. The circuit does exactly what you said it would. lol

I didn't have a 4700uf. With a 2700uf it turned about 1/8th when closed and came back when opened. Tried with a 17,000uf and it turned about 1 1/2 turns when closed and came back when opened. These were DC caps.

I tried with a regular AC type cap that has the ground band on the side and it just heated up hot. The DC caps did not heat up and the L1 also stayed cold even when the circuit switch was left open for a long time.

So this is proof positive that the current is flowing in two directions.

And THIS ALSO COULD EXPLAIN WHY I  have had so much trouble with the ozone patent, trying to figure out which terminal A or B was positive and which was negative. Erfinder said the A was positive but between you and me, that did not help one bit. I was still confused. So, the motor coil is being supplied DC and one would naturally follow this path all around the circuit, but in fact, the motor side (high inductance) of the rotary was DC and the primary/secondary/capacitor side of the rotary was AC. IS THIS RIGHT?

Man oh man, if this is right, now I get it. Tesla, you sly devil you. lol

Offline quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #175 on: March 15, 2008, 04:58:27 AM »

@allcanadian.. very nice. It worked first go. Motor spins half to full turn or so and then on release turns in reverse. the larger the cap the more the spin. are you saying that this is what is occurring in the ozone circuit as well? and in fact that current is reversing direction during cycles, this would make sense considering what i have just seen. but how does this then effect the circuit or more to the point the secondary coil? (from a standard)... Thanks.

@ armagdn03 Excellent, gotta keep you on your toes once in awhile. LOL, I study as well. I was so hoping that you would pick up on "the mass of the element correlated directly to the frequency of the element", thank you.

We now return to our regularly scheduled spark gap experiments. Power on!


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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #175 on: March 15, 2008, 04:58:27 AM »
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Offline Localjoe

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #176 on: March 15, 2008, 05:30:30 AM »
Collaspe of an energy field into a circuit of negligible impedence produces a shockwave or energy that may reach astronomical amplitudes

More later -got to run

You bring an excellent point. Grumpy

How about this analogy

I pluck a guitar string that is not tightened or in tune say just kinda loose on the neck. The string moves when i touch it and thats it.

Now i tune the string up just by tightening it and then i pluck it.  This wonderful note comes out that i have tuned my string to and it resonates for a while until it dies out . 

How to tighten our string in the circuit is the real question and to what measure?

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #177 on: March 15, 2008, 05:44:07 AM »
@wattsup
Quote
So this is proof positive that the current is flowing in two directions.
Yes, in this instance the circuit controller is the dividing line in the circuit, the large self-inductance and the source battery(DC)----- and the motor(M) and capacitor(AC).I should have mentioned that I was using a polarized 4700uF DC capacitor .

Quote
So, the motor coil is being supplied DC and one would naturally follow this path all around the circuit, but in fact, the motor side (high inductance) of the rotary was DC and the primary/secondary/capacitor side of the rotary was AC. IS THIS RIGHT?
Yes, in this circuit I posted you are correct----- But this is not teslas circuit nor does it have some very important quailties present in teslas circuit---  series oscillations .I only meant to show that (1)a DC PM motor can be used as a measurement tool (2)that this circuit can act as two independant circuits---- hold the circuit controller closed and you will see the motor(M) turn until the cap is fully discharged and will not recharge as it is shorted through the circuit controller, one side of the circuit is discharging as the other side is charged then they reverse roles.(3) that the large self-inductance L1 has a unidirectional flow DC, L1 may change polarity but the current flow is in one direction.

The most important properties of this circuit I posted will propably be overlooked so I will help, In Fig 2 the capacitor AND the motor (M) have current flow, in Fig 1 the cap is discharged through the motor (M)------- the current has done work in the motor (M) when charging the cap AND when discharging the cap---- the same current performed work in motor (M) twice--"two times" not just once ----How is this different from what we normally do? ;). Also in Fig 2 when L1 is discharging it is also helping to "charge" the capacitor with the source battery.
This is not Teslas circuit, it is to demonstate certain properties present in teslas patent. ;)


« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 06:08:26 AM by allcanadian »

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #178 on: March 15, 2008, 06:02:51 AM »
Collaspe of an energy field into a circuit of negligible impedence produces a shockwave or energy that may reach astronomical amplitudes

More later -got to run

You bring an excellent point. Grumpy

How about this analogy

I pluck a guitar string that is not tightened or in tune say just kinda loose on the neck. The string moves when i touch it and thats it.

Now i tune the string up just by tightening it and then i pluck it.  This wonderful note comes out that i have tuned my string to and it resonates for a while until it dies out . 

How to tighten our string in the circuit is the real question and to what measure?

I offer the following information

frequency of oscillation on a string = (1/2L)(T/u)^(1/2) 

Where L is length, T is the tension in newtons, and u is the linear mass. Therefore we can see that as the tension of the string increases, so does the frequency of oscillation.

Now, knowing that vibratory systems are essentially correlated, what variables can we change in order to increase the frequency of oscillation for an LC circuit? And how do we measure these variables?

Offline Localjoe

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #179 on: March 15, 2008, 06:20:17 AM »
@wattsup

About the 4(8including insulating pie strips) points my solution was a small wooden disk with copper strips on it, if you criss cross em you can fit enough for 8(16)  or 16(32) contact points, kinda like an asterix they have to be multiples tho for the proportion to hold  :) 

That will effect the rate at which the cap dumps through L2 the Primary (low inductance few turn) in the working circuit and then through L1(high inductance) the motor coils.  I strongly feel a second coil should be added between the exit of the motor coil and the rotary gap disk to vary the inductance of the motor. This is shown in pat 568,178 .

 Without this addition there will be no variable control for the motors speed and changing the inductance of the circuit.  I assume one would like to be able to control the freq of the ac output on the secondary thats why i keep making this point.

The ozone patent is the guts to many of his devices and some of the later devices for high freq hv  show additions to this circuit real cool ones. for instance He modifies the timing and working circuits in this pic of pat 568179  What the new tiwst here is that the two choking coils on the side are hooked to either side of the commutator in the motor as well as separate caps that seem to be in parallel. Same motor from 568177. The commutator wasn't used for timing purposes in the ozone patent yet it is here. As well as a rotary disk for timing.


Note to all ... The motor seems to be a crucial part. I think we should all replicate the exact dc edit: or commutated ac motor or as close as possible because it will be a great help in the later patents .. its a core component that is used in more ways than one could think.  Its not like we can easily rip apart a hobby motor to get to the commutator it would ruin it if not made with those things in mind.
                                                                                                                          Joe
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 07:27:58 AM by Localjoe »

 

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