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Author Topic: The Tesla Project  (Read 182513 times)

Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #135 on: March 03, 2008, 03:04:23 AM »
@popolibero
I would agree the Primary and capacitor do not necessarily follow the frequency of the high self-inductance.
@Ren
In my last post the circuit "is" teslas patent 568177, I edited it to show the secondary on L2.

Here are some pictures of a similar circuit, circuit 1 is Teslas patent 568177, circuit 2 is a DC-DC step-up converter or commonly called a switch mode converter. In these circuits I have shown two sets of polarities, a truth table for polarities, the polarity closest to the top of the picture is the polarity in a charging condition and the polarity below is the polarity in a inductance discharging condition. Notice in circuit 2, the DC-DC step-up converter that the inductor L1 is charging when the switch closes with the (+) polarity closest the the source battery on the left, when the switch opens the inductor L1 changes polarity. Here we can see the polarity of the inductor is such that "it" acts as a source in series with the source battery. The inductor acts like a battery in series would thus the electrical pressure on the capacitor rises above the source battery voltage, but the inductor has very different properties than a battery.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #135 on: March 03, 2008, 03:04:23 AM »

Offline Ren

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #136 on: March 03, 2008, 03:35:55 AM »
Ok AC,


So in number 1 L1 is the circuit of high self induction, in the case of 568177 the motor coils (and choking coil when appropriate) and L2 is the transformer. I had them around backwards in my head.

I found the polarities you showed very interesting in that they are opposites under different conditions. I feel like that alone is something profound, I cant quite put my finger on it yet, I'll let it sink in.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 04:07:43 AM by Ren »

Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2008, 07:06:42 AM »
@AC

Pretty neat and just in time. I don't know what is in the air this weekend but I really really needed to take a few steps back to read up and prepare a post on my understanding of "Self-Inductance" as can be expected by this non-EE brain of mine. Thick skull and all. This understanding is the heart-beat of these circuits and Tesla's and Erfinder's emphasis is so wide reaching. Knowing that if I can understand this aspect and master its application, this is definitely key for me and many others.

But here's the problem. I am reading the words, I am understanding the words, but I really really need to see this in action or in animation. So much so that today, after your very timely post, I decided to drop everything and start working on an animation of your little circuit. I have already prepared the main look, which is simple enough and shown below.

I will keep it here on this post and work out the finer movements with your guidance, if possible. If you can take the next post, we could use these two posts until this animation is what it should be. This side challenge will help me and I am sure others to "see" what's going on. We could take it step by step and the adjustments to the animation are simple enough that I am sure this could be done quickly enough. I would simply re-post the new animation on this post and date it to not take up more space on the thread.

The drawing program I use is Corel Draw, make the changes and cut and paste it into a Gif Maker which is a nifty little and simple program to use.

Also if Erfinder or others have corrections, they can also intervene and hopefully we can have something that can really "show" as well as "tell" the story.

Great posts from all. I am beginning to catch this. Wow.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #137 on: March 03, 2008, 07:06:42 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #138 on: March 06, 2008, 03:00:38 AM »
@AC

Hope I did not put you on the spot or anything like that. Please forget my suggestion maybe some were waiting for you to take the next post before they posted some other results. So let' s just forget it and move on.

@all

As per ACs diagram shown above, I did some tests with this exact setup. Unfortunately I am having trouble trying to integrate a DPDT relay into this scheme and have it do the switching of the working switch (not the main switch that is a manual switch).

But here's the good part. By simply pulsing manually only a 2-3 times, voltage went up to around 70 vdc off my microwave transformer secondary (S2) via a diode and capacitor. And you can hear the choke (L1) popping or kicking.

The problem with integrating a relay in this design is that when the whole system is started, the power draw on the battery leaves nothing for the relay to click. This is going really deep into the battery. If I put the relay coil in series before the choke coil, the relay cannot supply the current required and nothing happens.

I think what is required for this circuit is another circuit for the switching on a separate power supply, just to see what it will do. But the design itself is sound and it works. By adding any more components, this would obviously not qualify under the conditions set by Erfinder but it does warrant further testing for damn sure.

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Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #139 on: March 06, 2008, 05:40:59 AM »
@wattsup
This may help with your animation, the circuit below is patent 568177, I have included a small blue circle in the circuit where a diode can be placed as represented in the larger blue circle. If the diode is in place(blue circle) we can see the capacitor cannot discharge thus the voltage will continue to rise on the capacitor if the circuit controller is cycled.
If we look at the top circuit we can see the circuit controller is closed charging the large self-inductance (L1) in the direction indicated. I think we should see L1 as having the properties of inertia, like a large heavy flywheel, once in motion it will want to remain in motion --- just like a large inductance it will oppose motion (current) initially and if motion (current) is reduced it will use it's inertia (motion) to try to maintain the current by raising its voltage (electrical pressure).
Next in the lower circuit the circuit controller (cc) has been opened, since the inductance L1 has inertia it will continue pushing in the same direction(red arrows) in what is now a series circuit that is charging the capacitor above the supply voltage-- L1 is pulling from (+) and pushing to ( - ). The inertia of the inductance L1 charges the capacitor, my capacitor charges to about 250 volts with a single switch closure of about 1/10th of a second. :) Now look at the circuit, we have a capacitor charged to 250v and the supply battery at 12v, so the capacitor must discharge into the (+) connection of the battery as this is the only route available to it, this flow is the green arrows. So the inductance L1 is charged in an opposite sense when the capacitor is discharging,  the inertia of the inductance L1 then recharges the capacitor in an opposite sense. These oscillations continue until friction reduces the voltage to zero, but we should remember that the electrical pressure (voltage) drives these oscillations, higher pressure means the oscillations continue longer. Can you imagine how long let's say 10,000 volts would remain in oscillation in your circuit.
There is something else to consider, if the flow is in the direction of the red arrows and the capacitor is charged to 250v, what would happen if the circuit controller was closed at that instant?
We can see the capacitor could then discharge into the (+) of the supply battery "and" the small inductance L2. As L2 is a small inductance it could charge then discharge(green arrows) then reverse direction (red arrows) just as current started to flow through L1(red arrows).The oscillations of L2 and the capacitor help charge L1, the exact moment the circuit controller closes determines how much current recharges the source battery through the (+) connection and how much current charges L2 thus L1. We are talking about large voltage swings in microseconds so the timing of the circuit controller is critical. Also if C is at 250v and this potential is applied to L2 on closure of the circuit controller how can this potential effect L1, we are talking about a single wire between L1/L2 how could L1 not see this potential? or can it? ;D
We should also ask what have we lost in the process? the charging or addition of inertia to L1 charges the capacitor on discharge of this inertia so we have lost nothing but we have raised the electrical pressure(voltage) on the capacitor which is what Tesla wanted, an efficient means to charge a capacitor. :)
Now what the hell could be going on in the secondaries of L2? ;D

P.S. -- My inductance L1 is making a high pitched ping with every switch opening as well .
« Last Edit: March 06, 2008, 10:51:05 PM by allcanadian »

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #139 on: March 06, 2008, 05:40:59 AM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #140 on: March 07, 2008, 11:06:18 PM »
@AC

Thanks a heep for your great explanations and the two diagrams.

I will be looking alot closer to this during sunday, but I had a question for you regarding the circuit No. 1.

Why is it that when the switch is closed there is no current going through the cap and transformer primary. It would seem to me that even though the switch is closed, thus it is making a shorter route or route of less resistance from the positive to the negative, it seems to me that the capacitor and transformer primary should till receive some of the, well maybe not current flow but, some saturating action. I can't really say it in the right way but there has to be something going on there during the switch closure. Any ideas?

Offline Ren

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #141 on: March 08, 2008, 12:30:30 AM »
"Why is it that when the switch is closed there is no current going through the cap and transformer primary?"

Does current ever flow THROUGH the cap? My (basic) understanding of a capacitor is it is a number of finely spaced plates upon which builds a charge. The positive plate builds up a potential and wants to jump to the negative plate but it cant because they dont actually touch. I probably just showed how little I know by that statement, hopefully people can set me straight. Although with the diode in place the negative terminal is isolated from the negative terminal of the source so perhaps current does flow through this capacitor. I guess Im just trying to question everything....

"in what is now a SERIES circuit that is charging the capacitor "

this comment from AC made me think. Is the capacitor flip flopping from parallel to series connection with the battery upon switch toggling?

I have also been considering where the second switch/relay may be placed as per Erfinders original build specs. Is this second switch part of the circuit controller in AC's drawing? A better way to control the switching, or is it used elsewhere?

So many interesting things happening in such a simple circuit.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #141 on: March 08, 2008, 12:30:30 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #142 on: March 08, 2008, 01:07:57 AM »
@Ren
I think of a capacitor as like a rubber wall between (+)and (-), as the electrical pressure rises on one side the rubber stretches storing this pressure, when pressure is released the rubber wall stretches back forcing a flow of electrical fluid. As such current cannot flow "through" the wall of the capacitor but AC can flow back and forth, flowing back and forth is still a flow thus it is an energy transfer.
Quote
"in what is now a SERIES circuit that is charging the capacitor "
This is refering to the series circuit L1, L2, C and the source, what is not apparent is that the capacitor "C" will block a constant flow of current(DC) but can pass AC as the flow alternates back and forth. If the series circuit L1, L2, C and the source battery alternates the current flow back and forth (AC) then we can consider the source battery as acting exactly like a capacitor, It is the source when charging L1 and a capacitance once the circuit controller is opened. The whole circuit including the source battery is in oscillation.

There is something else we should consider, the series circuit L1,L2,C and the source battery has an alternating current flowing back and forth in the whole circuit---- including the large self-inductance which just so happens to be an AC MOTOR. An AC motor utilizes an alternating current flow to produce "work", this "work" is reflected back to the AC generator which in turn must do "work". So where is the AC generator? the large self-inductance and the capacitor C are the AC high frequency generator. ;D Nobody has considered the fact that if the motor had a very low RPM (highly loaded) then the motor cannot reflect this "work" back to the generator as in conventional systems---- there is no conventional AC generator! .In this instance a highly loaded motor , the large self-inductance, can only act as a stalled motor which allows a maximum current flow---this max current flow can either charge the capacitor "C" or charge the high self-inductance, both store this  energy then release it. The motor will act like a large inductor and not a motor so how can it "consume" energy, inductors do not consume energy they only store it for a while then release it.
Think about a commutated AC motor on a electric hand drill, if you stall the motor under high load you will trip the circuit breaker because the motor was drawing to many amps. In a DC motor if you overload it the high amps will roast you motor coils. If Teslas motor stalls in this circuit the most it can do is increase the frequency of oscillation in the circuit through maximum current flow. Make no mistake Tesla was brilliant!


« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 02:37:45 AM by allcanadian »

Offline quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #143 on: March 08, 2008, 04:16:11 AM »
TESLA says....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ON LIGHT AND OTHER HIGH FREQUENCY PHENOMENA

The rushes of current may be of the same direction under the conditions before assumed, but most generally there is an oscillation superimposed upon the fundamental vibration of the current.  When the conditions are so determined that there are no oscillations, the current impulses are unidirectional and thus a means is provided of transforming a continuous current of high tension, into a direct current of lower tension, which I think may find employment in the arts.

This method of conversion is exceedingly interesting and I was much impressed by its beauty when I first conceived it.  It is ideal in certain respects.  It involves the employment of no mechanical devices of any kind, and it allows of obtaining currents of any desired frequency from an ordinary circuit, direct or alternating.  The frequency of the fundamental discharges depending on the relative rates of supply and dissipation can be readily varied within wide limits, by simple adjustments of these quantities, and the frequency of the superimposed vibration by the determination of the capacity, self-induction and resistance of the circuit.  The potential of the currents, again, may be raised as high as any insulation is capable of withstanding safely by combining capacity and self-induction or by induction in a secondary, which need have but comparatively few turns.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This sounds to me Hetrodyning (a the process of mixing two AC signals, creating a third, at a lower frequency which is easier to amplify and use).

What interests me is the arc, here is the perfect million fold amplifier! from wire speed to  light speed through air. think about it!

and again....
Colorado Springs
June 24, 1899

 It is based on my observation that by passing through a rarefied gas a discharge of sufficient intensity, preferably one of high frequency, the resistance of the gas may be so diminished that it falls far below that of the best conductors.

 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and heating the dielectric, changing it's pressure....

Now, as a test - put a match or lighter or candle under the spark gap and watch what happens!!!  this is the ultimate conductor!   /insulator sorta...

of electricity i say...
------------------------------------------------------
The spark gap is what I find most interesting, when in the blink of an eye an electrical phenomena occurs which almost defies imagination. The textures, colors, intensities of electrical power, the breaking of the dielectric barrier, the crack, breaking the speed of sound, the flash of light as electrons and ions are liberated at light speed, LIGHT! from wire speed to dielectric breakdown speed.  This, is amplification by velocity! Both pulse width and pulse frequency can be adjusted. Different materials show different effects, as varied as are the sparks that emanate.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 09:36:53 AM by quantum1024 »

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #143 on: March 08, 2008, 04:16:11 AM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #144 on: March 10, 2008, 01:29:28 AM »
@quantum1024
Quote
This sounds to me Hetrodyning (a the process of mixing two AC signals, creating a third, at a lower frequency which is easier to amplify and use).
Have you ever read that Tesla was mixing signals? He was not because there is no need, this is very easy once you build the circuit. Take the patent 568177 circuit, now remove the capacitor and you will find a single pulse from the circuit disrupter wil deliver just that ----- a single pulse. Now replace the capacitor and the oscillations will continue ten times longer if conditions are right. These oscillations represent "current" flowing back and forth at the resonance of the circuit, If current is flowing ten times longer then I can only guess that this current flows through the motor and primary ten times longer. Current flowing over time "is" power, if current flows longer then we can say more power has been delivered to the components doing work. The oscillations are dampened but the average current flow is still higher. The biggest problem I have encountered is that this is just too easy.  ;D
I have a feeling from the silence in this thread that some people are starting to get this as well, it's easy just do it.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #145 on: March 10, 2008, 03:06:18 AM »
Hope the silence doesnt mean people are giving up and they really are getting it!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #145 on: March 10, 2008, 03:06:18 AM »
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Offline Ren

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #146 on: March 10, 2008, 08:32:27 AM »
Im still following and learning guys. I have learnt about as much as I can I think without getting my hands dirty. Now methinks its time to build!

Offline Frederic2k1

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #147 on: March 10, 2008, 07:18:39 PM »
Quote
Now replace the capacitor and the oscillations will continue ten times longer if conditions are right. These oscillations represent "current" flowing back and forth at the resonance of the circuit, If current is flowing ten times longer then I can only guess that this current flows through the motor and primary ten times longer. Current flowing over time "is" power, if current flows longer then we can say more power has been delivered to the components doing work. The oscillations are dampened but the average current flow is still higher. The biggest problem I have encountered is that this is just too easy.

I'm very impressed by these sentences. I'm sitting here on my computer, staring at this post since the last 10 minutes.
Is this really the key to overunity ?

I haven't thinked about it in this manner, well done. I have to start building.



Offline am1ll3r

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #148 on: March 11, 2008, 05:39:25 AM »
Had a major DOH! moment because I thought that the tuned LC circuit was between the primary of the transformer and the cap.

I am in the process of making some sort of visulation of the drawing of the ozone patent. I want to take each step of the circuit apart and understand whats going on at each step. Ill be posting that as soon as I get it done.

I have a bunch of caps relays and transformers that have no harmonic relation and I realize I really don't know what or how to make them harmonic to each other. On the other hand I feel like I need to have a goal (I believe this was said here before) or a use for this circuit to tie into. Like pick a motor for an electric scooter or something and use the ozone circuit to power it. Not really sure if I'm thinking of this correct but thats how my mind works.

either way .... I am not giving up ... fact is I cant stop thinking about this ;)

Cheers ;D

Offline quantum1024

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Re: The Tesla Project
« Reply #149 on: March 11, 2008, 08:52:41 AM »

@allcanadian

Nice! very Nice!  thats interesting... I tried the circuit with some simple inductors I had around and a battery, sure enough, within 2 mins I had what you suggested on page 10, the previous post. I liked and agree with you and everything you stated so far, makes sense.

I have for a long time believed that electronics was a bit too confined and needed some fresh perspective... electronics should include more or less terms or mechanical effects or terms into electronic terms such as, gyroscopic, mass, inertia etc.. it would be far more colorful in any case.

I have been playing with a 555 timer driving a high voltage transistor (from a tv ;) this switches a 110v to 420v industrial transformer I found. The output then connects to a high voltage diode; to a capacitor and to a spark gap back to the transformer. With this circuit I have been testing the spark gap, scaling voltages, frequencies and pulse widths from 0 to 500 Khz or so. Average voltages from ~3000 to 12,000 volts . My  Current draw is 12vdc at 100-300ma. The voltage on the collector of the transistor varies from 0-900vdc (also across the primary winding). Pulses are square wave. Very accurate, but still have drift & shift.

The power transformer is limited by it?s core material, frequency wise -it?s poor, thus air core is the solution. I have already built a 1000 turn 1-1/4? cardboard tube 20inchs long. 15.1ohm, 3.11Mh secondary coil.

I have no scanner, so no schematic, sorry.

Have you ever read that Tesla was mixing signals?
---> The first paragraph was from Tesla, which sounds like (but might not be), depending on the translation,  Hetrodyning. thats what I read anyway.

@Frederic2k1 - Overunity --- The Possibility exists...

We are getting it I believe, when a post makes you really think, then the post momentary dies as we all begin experimenting with a new vigor and insight.


 

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