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Author Topic: Can someone show me a design that has worked?  (Read 11036 times)

Offline b0rg13

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2008, 09:19:41 AM »
you sure Hans ? ???

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy



Offline BEP

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2008, 01:40:52 PM »
Don't forget on U-tube even Godzilla is real.

 ??? Don't even start that idea. After all, there are far more videos of him - grainy, sound track out of sync, a mysterious hum in the background, almost invisible strings hanging from outside camera view, blow dryers in the corner......

A common thread! OU researchers are all out-of-work Godzilla investigators.

I just avoid him. There have been some service trips I've refused to go on. The boss would never guess it is because of Godzilla.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2008, 01:40:52 PM »
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Offline RunningBare

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2008, 04:14:56 AM »
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5738531568036565057&q=zero+point+energy&total=921&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

I have lost count of the videos I've watched like this one, it's hard to stay awake through some of them, but they do elicit one emotional thought, STOP TALKING AND START DOING!

Not meant towards you PolyMatrix.

Offline PolyMatrix

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2008, 04:55:26 AM »
No problem RunningBare.

The Lego one I am going to attempt to see if I can repeat with gears, but I only have very primitive tools to work with so have to build the Jigs and Scales and bits and pieces to aid in construction and analysis, as soon as can remove myself form this minor obsession I have with reading this site!

BTW l liked your floating magnet demo.

However I have already posted elsewhere that there is a patent verifying or acknowledging overunity only to have it dismissed as old technology! Then there is this letter from Tom Valone to NASA's chief scientist http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=2598 where he cites substantive experiments.

The significant part of this letter is

Quote
Substantive Experiments

I should also list the following US patents as the most significant in ZPE research: "Rectifying Thermal Electric Noise" by Charles Brown #3890161, and #4704622 by Capasso, which actually acknowledge ZPE for their functional nature. Capasso is an IBM engineer and indicates that his tunnelling device only works if ZPE is present, much like what Planck discovered and Koch recently detected in the lab. I tend to recommend metal-metal nanodiodes probably will be a popular brand for ZPE usage with millipore sheet assembly. I also cite the work of Yasamoto, et. Al. (2004, Science, 304:1944) covering peptide molecular photodiodes just 1 nm across -- another example of a molecular tool for studying this zero point energy that shows up on the molecular level.

*Now to answer your question:* YES, these diodes demonstrate substantive, greater than uncertainty generation of energy from ZPE. In fact, simple coils do as well! Don't believe me? Check out the frenzy of activity that I cite concerning Puthoff's right hand man, Dr. Eric Davis, as well as Prof. Christian Beck overseas.

However it looks as though no matter what you say to a sceptic they are stubbornly still going to believe what they want to be true rather than accept that what they have learned is a slightly different viewpoint. Even today it is as K. Popper said, "It is not so much that new ways of thinking become standard it is that the proponents of the old die out"

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2008, 04:55:26 AM »
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Offline Bessler007

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2008, 07:28:27 AM »
You actually never cited a patent that verifies over unity.  If you did cite it again.  Or do you mean the two patents of devices that might have verified zero point energy highlighted in blue below?

In physics, the zero-point energy is the lowest possible energy that a quantum mechanical physical system may possess and is the energy of the ground state of the system. The concept was first proposed by Albert Einstein and Otto Stern in 1913.

Don't you remember what you said?  Also do you realize there's a difference between OU (over unity) and ZPE (zero point enrgy)?  That's why there are two different words.  lol

The one thing I'm very skeptical about is your ability to find your arse with two hands, a map and a compass.


Bessler007
mib HQ


. . .
However I have already posted elsewhere that there is a patent verifying or acknowledging overunity only to have it dismissed as old technology! Then there is this letter from Tom Valone to NASA's chief scientist http://www.zpenergy.com/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=2598 where he cites substantive experiments.

The significant part of this letter is

Quote
Substantive Experiments

I should also list the following US patents as the most significant in ZPE research: "Rectifying Thermal Electric Noise" by Charles Brown #3890161, and #4704622 by Capasso, which actually acknowledge ZPE for their functional nature. Capasso is an IBM engineer and indicates that his tunnelling device only works if ZPE is present, much like what Planck discovered and Koch recently detected in the lab. I tend to recommend metal-metal nanodiodes probably will be a popular brand for ZPE usage with millipore sheet assembly. I also cite the work of Yasamoto, et. Al. (2004, Science, 304:1944) covering peptide molecular photodiodes just 1 nm across -- another example of a molecular tool for studying this zero point energy that shows up on the molecular level.

*Now to answer your question:* YES, these diodes demonstrate substantive, greater than uncertainty generation of energy from ZPE. In fact, simple coils do as well! Don't believe me? Check out the frenzy of activity that I cite concerning Puthoff's right hand man, Dr. Eric Davis, as well as Prof. Christian Beck overseas.

However it looks as though no matter what you say to a sceptic they are stubbornly still going to believe what they want to be true rather than accept that what they have learned is a slightly different viewpoint. Even today it is as K. Popper said, "It is not so much that new ways of thinking become standard it is that the proponents of the old die out"

Offline PolyMatrix

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2008, 02:49:56 PM »
@Bessler007

Yes you are correct I never cited a Patent, Tom Valone cited the patent, I am repeating what Tom Valone said. The point about overunity is that the 'extra energy' comes from somewhere just as heat comes from friction, and one theoretical modal is ZPE is able to 'deliver' this energy. The alternative is that there is an unnamed energy that can be tapped at very specific harmonic frequency(ies). The difficulty is that each 'system' or device has at different moments in 'time' different harmonic frequencies according to the surrounding temperature, humidity, air pressure and who knows what else at this point.

For a moment I considered being a pedant and pointing out that OU is two words and ZPE is three, but then decided that it would be better if I showed that I understood your intention instead of deliberately teasing your desire to find inaccuracy in what I have said. Semantics is about meaning and communication is about getting that meaning from person to person and it is generally accepted that a person can say one word that is out of context but the meaning of what was intended is still clear or deducible.

So would you please point out where I have confused OU to mean ZPE. OU is about taking into account how a system can obtain energy from a source not normally considered in the standard ways of measuring energy. ZPE is as far as I understood the arguments is not part of the standard methods of considering energy input and output to date.

''Free Energy' is about obtaining energy from sources that cost little or no cost to obtain, it is not about OU, just to try and make that teminology understood too.

I cannot see anything to be gained from insulting people other than to motivate a response or action from them. The other purpose of insults is an attempt to inflict emotional pain. I accept that I may well be the things you perceive me to be. I would appreciate understanding as to what it is that I have said or done that gives you this perception.

However if you think these requests unreasonable that is Ok too, as I accept that you may have a busy life and might find the task distasteful.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 03:10:57 PM by PolyMatrix »

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2008, 02:49:56 PM »
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Offline Bessler007

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2008, 08:11:42 PM »
Yes you are correct I never cited a Patent, Tom Valone cited the patent, I am repeating what Tom Valone said.

Mr. Valone cited two patents, not one.  If you'd care to make a point about what he thinks about those patents as they relate to zpe then you'd first have to understand his point.  Parroting another's conclusion is simply deferring your thinking to them. 

Taking their conclusion:

"I should also list the following US patents as the most significant in ZPE research: "Rectifying Thermal Electric Noise" by Charles Brown #3890161, and #4704622 by Capasso, which actually acknowledge ZPE for their functional nature."

and shifting to your assertion:

"However I have already posted elsewhere that there is a patent verifying or acknowledging overunity"

is intellectually dishonest.  That's the point I'm making.

I seldom insult a person.  It's much easier to insult an idea.  A lot of times people can't distinguish between their idea and their person and hence take the insult personally.  Some ideas are very insulting and should have the favor returned.

Now if you're too busy to comprehend what Mr. Valone said about those two patents and present his case for him I'd understand that but you shouldn't restate his conclusion then attribute it back to him.  That's a misrepresentation.  You are not merely repeating what he said.


Bessler007
Cmdr, Black Helicopter Squadron
mib HQ


edit: replace "word" with "terms"; that should resolve the issue.

Offline Bessler007

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 08:16:19 PM »
So would you please point out where I have confused OU to mean ZPE.

When you take Mr. Valone's conclusion about two patents (not one) of support for zpe and restate it as being one patent that supports OU.


Bessler007
Cmdr, Black Helicopter Squadron
mib HQ

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2008, 08:16:19 PM »
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Offline Bessler007

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2008, 08:42:24 PM »
A precise definition of the the difference between overunity and zero point energy wouldn't hurt.  The difference is best seen in how the words came into the vocabulary and speaks to the source  of where the energy can come from to cause a motion or energy that never ceases.

Perpetual motion.

ZPE suggests the energy inherent in all matter (as Einstein postulated) can be used to cause the motion and overunity suggests ZPE could be that source or there could be other sources.

That's my understanding but it is the topic of another thread. 

The model I'm developing manages the geometry of space/time.  It should put to rest the idea that energy can't be created.  That's my goal.

In everyday communication, precision of terms isn't all that necessary but as some have pointed out (and have been thrashed for) when you're attempting to make a point to the scientific community you have to accept and understand their terms precisely and offer an explanation with an example in those terms.


Bessler007
Cmdr, Black Helicopter Squadron
mib HQ

Offline PolyMatrix

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2008, 03:40:42 AM »
Computer programmers in low-level code use indirect reference as a one of the language tools that are available to them. Presumably indirect reference is not a new language concept. It is quite clear in the other thread where I get the patent information. In the lecture by Tom Valone, sorry I cannot remember who posted that link, he actually mentions 3 patients of which he says he considers the Capasso the most important. So by my associative dyslexic thinking patents becomes patent. Since this is the Internet and the time one allows to considering exactly what one has said and how another might perceive it is reduced to a minimum, it is usual to allow posters a lot of leeway in what they say.

I apologise for writing in a compressed form of reasoning.

Was or is overunity considered impossible 11 years ago?
Were people accepting that it is/was possible we could tap into ZPE/??? or use these sources of energy? (Equinox 1995, “It runs on water”, holds an explanation of ZPE for the ordinary man).
Are there standard methods of working out the energy input into a machine and do they normally consider background noise to be one of them?
Is it not usual to consider background noise and radiation as part of experimental error?
In the conversation between NASSA scientist and T.Valone does it not seem that Valone considers background noise to be part of ZPE.
Hence the logic of saying "patent verifying overunity"

What is a person other than a bunch of ideas in a bag of water held together by minerals?

What I am guilty of is not posting a link to what I was talking about

In history it has been recorded as usual for at least two people to have the same controversial inventive ideas. The person who gets the most noise from the public is the one who is usually attributed with coming up with it first. Personally I do not care who thought of it. All my thoughts once expressed are public property for the virus infesting the planet known as 'Earth' by the virus.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 04:30:02 AM by PolyMatrix »

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2008, 03:40:42 AM »
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Offline PolyMatrix

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Re: Can someone show me a design that has worked?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2008, 05:25:51 AM »
@Bessler007
Finally to quote yourself

What hasn't happened from the believers in free energy (FE) or those of over unity (OU) is not relevant to a discussion about zero point energy (ZPE).  I'm not sure why you'd want to change the subject to that.  Maybe  your grasping at straws.

    " Zero point energy is the energy that remains after a substance is cooled to absolute zero. "   Dr. Hal Puthoff

I'd submit to you the energy required to attain those temperatures puts any application of ZPE well outside any practical application of FE or OU.

 

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