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Author Topic: Water battery  (Read 27655 times)

The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #15 on: January 14, 2008, 12:30:37 AM »
quite right, the reaction, is galvanic for want of a more scientific description, and let us spare you the long experiments.

let us say your "battery" did indeed gain in voltage as you "fill your large buckets with water and metal" place them in series or whatever. it is

1) still a battery that has a life Span as the reaction dies due to various reactions, ferric will rust others will simply develop coatings of calcium and the like destroying the effect.

2) the cost of such batteries over lead is way over the top, your only benefit is that water is cheaper than the original acid. so its a more expensive battery with less output, and more energy to produce high end metals than lead which requires very little from lead based ore etc, so is also not environmentally friendly.

3)and most importantly, the charge from galvanic reactions dissapears in any form of loop that earths, or has high end neutral (large frame structure) so is not constant. albeit when i say not constant, if you lift out the metal and place it back in, the reaction will restart for as much as a few seconds. So your 10 amp winch to lift your milliamp producing battery, kinda ends the point of the exercise.

4) and most importantly as seems to be missed in all of the battery posts here is self discharge especially on rechargeable batteries. leave a batterry connected to any device not turned on and it will discharge at over ten times the rate as one in your kitchen drawer. a good example is the top of the range Sony battery charger for 1.5 (1.2 actually) AA batteries, the moment they are fully charged the device stops, and they start to discharge, leave them in the sony charger turned on but untouched for a week and they will be all but flat. diode switching does not work,it is the connection of the batteries to metal surfaces on each end. actually a good science experiment is to get say six batteries take three and tape a 1 foot wire to each contact of three of them, (do not let the other ends of the wires touch each other or any other items) and lay them on a table for a week next to the other three and measure the levels, if using rechargeables, the ones with the wires will be nearly flat, believe it or not the next worst performer for this problem is the brand new mighty lithium batteries. contact without current flow still causes loss of charge. Even galvanic batteries suffer this problem now add number 4 to number 5

5) volts give you the jolts but amps give you the cramps. you can actually get 240 volt from a battery at 1 milliamp, without amperage (actual power)your voltage readings mean nothing.

Hans is correct, but i say put the metal contacts into the potplant beside you and drink the beer, you will at least feel a charge.

(although we could change the energy rating stickers on appliances to buckets i suppose :) Hey dude check out my new 350 bucket IPOD

The Eskimo Quinn

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2008, 12:32:56 AM »
Although you'll have to move to acerage land if your sister wants an IPOD too  ;)

nightlife

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2008, 05:52:35 AM »
The Eskimo Quinn. my experiment has to do with frequency's. I have proven that a flat piece of metal creates more voltage then a round piece of the same height and weight. I did the same test using a potato and with a nail I got .44 volts but with the flat piece I got .98 volts. They were both 3.5 inches long and both are galvanized but the nail was heavier which tells me the nail contained more steel then the plate did but yet the plate created more voltage.

 I understand about the amps but the cell is charging battery's that have set around. My son charged a AAA battery for his Ipod and before it was charged we installed it in his Ipod to make sure it didn't have enough power to operate it and it didn't. We then charged the battery for 15 minutes with the cell and then installed it and it played 10 songs before it went dead. We are now charging it over night to see what the results will be.

 I am using this cell as a way to prove my theory of electricity being nothing more then frequency's. I am not using pails of water and I am only using 9oz cups with about 3oz's of water. I have found that flat metal creates more voltage then round metal and that helps prove my theory. I also found that the amount of water makes no difference but the size of the metal plates do. This proves my theory even more. Minerals that are in the water and the potato are absorbing the frequency's that attracted to the plates. I am trying to find out what minerals are and or combination of minerals are absorbing the frequency?s.
 John Hutchinson showed he collected certain crystallized rocks and crushed them and stuck them in steel containers with a rod in the middle and got voltage. He claimed that they never die and showed them to run a motor. This is what I am after and as soon as I find the right mixture I think I can perfect the concept better by using plated cells instead of round ones like he used.
 This water cell and the potato cell are just the beginning of my experiments and I found them to be the easiest way to test my theory at this time. I will eventually move to solid mineral cells when I figure out which solid minerals work the best.

hoptoad

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2008, 07:31:22 AM »
If so, are you able to provide a link to it ? I'm very curious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY1eyLEo8_A&feature=related
@Freezer
Thanks for the link - Intriguing stuff I must say!
Cheers from the Toad who Hops

jeanna

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2008, 07:45:01 PM »
Nightlife,
How much copper is exposed from the insulated copper wire on each end?
 Is it that insulated copper wire the thick stranded hook up wire?
Also, please, how big is the sheet metal? I assume if it is duct metal that it is galvanized with zinc?

thanks,
jeanna

nightlife

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2008, 01:38:24 AM »
jeanna, the wire was only 8 and I only stripped about 1inch of the insulation off from both ends. The metal I used was strapping that holds up duct work. It was about 1.5 inches wide and 5 inches long. I then used a piece of metal that was about 3 inches wide and 5 inches long and the voltage doubled. The wider the metal used, the more voltage I got. They were all galvanized as far as I could tell by looking at them.

 I hope that helps.

nightlife

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2008, 02:39:31 PM »
hansvonlieven, I found the following about galvantic action.

 "Alternatively if you can not afford the cost of a galvanic isolator unplugging your shoreline when the boat is not in use breaks the metallic bond preventing any galvanic action taking place."

 That tells me that iron in a cup of water would not have a galvanic action as long as the iron is not attached to anything. What are your thoughts on this?

http://www.ledgardbridge-boatcompany.com/html/galvanic_action.html

jeanna

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2008, 08:31:16 PM »
Nightlife,
Yesterday I found a big sheet of coppr in the thrift store. It was in the form of a copper aspic mold. I put a little water in it and some sodium carbonate (washing soda from arm n hammer). Then I placed a piece of unprinted newsprint on the copper surface and on top of that a piece of steel/iron from last month's welding class. It gave a pretty good galvanic reaction. In fact better than any I have seen inside the house. Notice the Plus probe is on the copper.
please go the earth battery page where I made a joke of it. ( because local joe had made the turkey choke joke)
I think it might say a bit about surface area or something, I dunno.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3500.945.html

jeanna

nightlife

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2008, 06:06:41 AM »
jeanna, sorry it took so long for me to get back to you. I did see your comment on the other thread with your picture and it gave me a couple idea's, so thank you for that.

 Do you know how long a galvanic action will last? Or if it looses power over time? I am also wondering if they can be put in parallel as well as in series if they would create more amperage?

 Below is a sketch of a single cell idea that could be put in series as well as in parallel.

Freezer

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2008, 06:31:25 AM »
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7488/wbww3.jpg)

I wonder what would happen if you used palladium?  ;)

nightlife

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2008, 06:38:31 AM »
Freezer, have you tried to run any parallel as well as in a series? Did you also note that there wasn't a difference in the amount of water used? I found I got the same results using just a little bit of water apposed to greater amounts.

jeanna

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2008, 07:01:23 AM »
Do you know how long a galvanic action will last? Or if it looses power over time? I am also wondering if they can be put in parallel as well as in series if they would create more amperage?
Yes they can be put in parallel as well as series.
No, I don't know how long it will last because each set of chemicals would work differently. It has always been dissapointing. The salmon was an alkaline battery because I used sodium carbonate as the "salt" (electrolyte) in the water. I did a study of different kinds of acid batteries a few years ago. lemon juice and copper and zinc etc. They were only good for about 6 hours.

In general what happens is that one of the electrodes (or probes if you want) will get plated with the other. I think a chemist could predict which one would be plated on the other.  But there is another kind of reaction. It takes the electrolyte and puts IT onto the probes.
Either way it slows down after a while and eventually stops.

Then the deal would be that if you pumped electricity back the other way from how it was going, you would redissolve the plating off the electrode and back into the solution. And you would have recharged your battery.

My mother used to polish her silver by soaking the tarnished silver in a bath of water + baking soda along with a big piece of aluminum foil. The foil would get black and the silver would shine. It never occurred to any of us to see what electricity potential came from it!

I also have a story about boats and galvanic action.

Steel hulled boats will get rusty from oxidation in the water. Warm salt water is the worst. They would spring a leak and sink. So, Someone had the bright idea to use galvanized zinc screws to hold the hulls together. Zinc electrons would fill in the "electron space" lost to the oxidation in the rust. It worked pretty well for a while, but after a while the electrons from the zinc would have become lost in the reaction and the zinc screws would be too small to fill the holes and the boat would sink.
I don't know if that is a true story or not. My high school chemistry teacher told it. I guess I learned the principle, even if it wasn't a true story. :D

Keep on building things and trying things. It's all good! :D and fun besides.

jeanna

jeanna

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2008, 07:04:59 AM »
I wonder what would happen if you used palladium?  ;)
Nice and bright.
And where would you ever get palladium?
 :D
jeanna

nightlife

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2008, 07:06:25 AM »
jeanna, thank you.

What about epson salt? Have you tried that before?

hansvonlieven

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Re: Water battery
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2008, 06:10:59 PM »
I wonder what would happen if you used palladium?  ;)
Nice and bright.
And where would you ever get palladium?
 :D
jeanna

The six platinum group metals are ruthenium, rhodium, palladium, osmium, iridium, and platinum. They have similar physical and chemical properties. Platinum, rhodium and palladium are used extensively in the jewelery trade as final coats for base metal castings and such. most electro-platers that do jewelery will use these metals if you ask for it.

These coatings are not very expensive, just a little more than gold plate, which is cheap. Because the action in these applications is confined to the surface, electroplated base metal  will give exactly the same results as solid metal.

Hans von Lieven