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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: angryScientist on January 08, 2008, 08:18:07 AM

Title: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: angryScientist on January 08, 2008, 08:18:07 AM
The gyroscopic effect that is referred to by Steven Marks in the videos could be the key to attaining the correct frequencies and phase relationship.

I see how this effect could come about but I am going to hold out on explaining it for a while. My reasoning is that I would like some more information that is untainted by my own thoughts to perfect this little theory of mine. I think there could be some things that I have over looked. Also I would like to know of any other theories that could explain such a phenomenon.

Whether TPU is a free energy device or not I see that the "gyroscopic" effect is a valuable and can be applied in other ways.

The question is; how is the effect produced?
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: innovation_station on January 08, 2008, 02:30:49 PM
you must ask the questions b4 you will ever find the answers 8)


let this question be asked

what is gravity?

ist

for when you find the answer you will be able to control it  8)

now knowing everything in this universe of nature has a polar opposite

what is gravity ?
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: angryScientist on January 08, 2008, 06:24:13 PM
@ innovation_station

That is a very good question.

It brings up another question in my mind. How do we figure any problem out?

I submit that to figure any problem out it is necessary to hold all the things known about the subject in our mind. Then consider all the possible solutions or out comes discarding what can not be plausible or feasible and choosing the most appropriate option from what is left.

This may sound like a daunting task but we do it everyday. I believe that the word 'comprehend' implies that very act. Com = together, pre = before, hendere = to grasp/take hold of. Just like catching a baseball. You can see where the baseball will be so you put yourself in the position to meet it before it arrives. It all happens faster than you can blink an eye.

On the subject of gravity I submit my observations that are probably not generally considered or maybe over looked;
1. We are not in a completely electrically neutral situation. Electron density changes with height on this planet.
2. We are in motion. Everything on the planet moves East ward. Facing East at the equator you are moving in that direction @ ~1040 miles per hour.
3. We are in a magnetic field. The lines of force exit at the south pole and travel north reentering the earth at the north pole.
4. Just like a Faraday disk generator all electrical charges on the planet experience a force, toward the center for electrons and toward the periphery for protons.
5. Therefore protons and electrons are forced apart magnetically yet are attracted electrically.

Of course I'm sure this does not describe the situation entirely but that's my perspective on the thing.
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: EMdevices on January 08, 2008, 11:29:00 PM
I believe the gyroscopic effect is present because the TPUs vibrate.

It is well known that vibrational objects exibit gyroscopic efects, and it's the basis for designing gyroscopic IC.  It is not needed to actualy SPIN an object to have it be gyroscopic.

The real question is why it vibrates?

EM

Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: Grumpy on January 08, 2008, 11:49:23 PM
Same reason jumper cables jump - the little thingies are made to move - they have mass, inertia, momentum

 ;)
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: innovation_station on January 09, 2008, 12:23:15 AM
all this being said

now what is gravity?

being you know what the polar oppsite is

can you name the oppsite?

ist

Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: Grumpy on January 09, 2008, 01:02:56 AM
radiation - everyone knows that  :o

Now back to that gyroscopic effect...
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: sparks on January 09, 2008, 02:45:07 AM
you must ask the questions b4 you will ever find the answers 8)


let this question be asked

what is gravity?

ist

for when you find the answer you will be able to control it  8)

now knowing everything in this universe of nature has a polar opposite

what is gravity ?

   Gravity arises from a will to concentrate.  It is opposed by a will to disperse which gives rise to magnetism.  The physical Universe a construct of these two wills.   
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: EMdevices on January 09, 2008, 05:29:44 AM
I believe vibration in the TPUs could be due to two basic occurrences.

1)  Lorentz forces  (due to current in the presence of magnetic fields   )

2) Magnetostriciton (due to physical strain of ferromagnetic materials in the presence of magnetic fields)

EM
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: Grumpy on January 09, 2008, 03:25:45 PM
I believe vibration in the TPUs could be due to two basic occurrences.

1)  Lorentz forces  (due to current in the presence of magnetic fields   )

2) Magnetostriciton (due to physical strain of ferromagnetic materials in the presence of magnetic fields)

EM

When you remove the cone from a speaker - does it vibrate?

Ever heard the "hum" of overhead transmission lines?
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: angryScientist on January 14, 2008, 07:54:33 PM
I'm having a little problem understanding the handedness here.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Rechte-hand-regel.jpg)

In the above image I,B and F are current, magnetic field and force exerted on electron?
----------------------------------
In the below image v, B and F are positive charge flow, magnetic field and force exerted? Or is that wrong?

(http://www.physics.brocku.ca/faculty/sternin/120/images/F19005c.gif)

Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: sparks on January 15, 2008, 03:40:58 AM
    I believe the gyroscopic effect is from the collector windings electrons flowing in a wild ass orbital current in the vicinity of at least 5000 rotations per second.  I know electrons don't have much mass but get enough of them going in a circle and you've got yourself an electronic top.  5000rps means electron (a) goes by the same point in the collector winding 5000 times a second.  If you have a one foot diameter tpu that electron is going 10,200 miles per hour, which is pretty damn close to the rotational speed of the earth at the equator.
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: devilzangel on January 15, 2008, 07:27:17 AM
^^ TPU rotational speed having relation with earth's rotational speed .. interesting  :)
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: EMdevices on January 16, 2008, 02:15:34 AM
angryscientist,   the images you show need to be applied with the correct equations, but for the x, y, z axis you show in the picture I see a problem,   the index finger needs to point in the x direction, then the second in the y, and the thumb in the z.   

Also if you do cross product like  Y x Z  , (read as Y cross Z),  you point your index finger in the direction of Y then the  second finger in the direction of Z and finally your thumb indicates the resulting direction which is X.  (another example is:  X x Z = -Y)   

So anyway, the right hand rule helps in many ways with helping to visualize the rectangular coordinate system and the transformations which certain mathematical rules produce, and especially in electromagnetics, we deal with a lot of vectors and cross products, etc,

Now the second picture shows the force developed on a moving positive charge in the direction of vector 'V',  while it is traveling in a magnetic field shown by the vector 'B'   The actual equation for this is  F = q (v x B)   which has the cross product in it again.   So you place your index finger in the direction of the first vector 'V'  and the second finger in the direction of 'B'  and the thumb shows you the resulting vector direction in the Z axis.   

It's really quite easy once you get the hang of it.   Hope that helps a bit.

EM
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: libra_spirit on January 16, 2008, 03:08:42 AM
Sharing some thoughts and trying to stretch out a bit......

These electrons that are somehow moving at very high speeds through the wires and creating a gyro force that give a sensation of motion to the TPU. I'm trying to grasp this concept. Generally when electrons move fast in wires this is called electric current and when it reaches a certain level the wires dissintegrate. This is from the heat produced as electrons are ripped from atoms and then jump back onto them.

Does anyone know the actual velocity of the electrons that will destroy a wire? How many coloumbs?

Do these electrons stop jumping between valence shells of the copper atoms and start to run down the outsides of the wire? How do they get free of the copper atoms? Lightening bolts?

On a valence shell of a copper atom the electron is approaching c velocity. But as the electron gets ripped off the shell its velocity is reduced to a crawl. To get these electrons up to a reasonable mass propulsion we could look inside the TV sets CRT. Does the screen get pushed outwards as the electron beam hits it, does it rattle the front metal screen that is peppered with holes? How fast must these electrons move to start to create a centrifugal force of consequence?

Ever see a vacuum tube vibrate in the slightest as it is pulsed with electron flows?

Are these also the same electrons moving through the light bulb and not bouncing it arournd in the least? What happened to them as they left the TPU did they loose their mass or their velocity?

The only thing moving fast down the wire is the E vector voltage. It moves first down the skin at c velocity. Now that this c velocity force is in place called voltage, what does it do to every Proton setting inside the wire? It jerks it towards the skin of the wire. There is your mass interaction creating a violent shock of mass all pulled outwards in the wire. This force is exerted outwards for a negative charge E vector voltage and the shock compression is outwards leaving a vacuum inside at the core of the wire. This pulse effects the spin momentum of the wires mass.

A positive voltage causes a shock inwards of the mass of the wire. All those little nucleuses with all that weight is shocked at the center of gravity for each one, and there is where one would expect to effect things like gravity. The strong force center, where gravity is already present as mass to energy.

The nucleus of the atom is lighter then the sum of its parts by the function of E = M C^2. Strong force is a result of the loss of mass of the parts. Here is where the secret to gravity must lie, what ever it is.

Moving the E vector around a circuit at c velocity and getting it to build, without moving electrons would seem the key to me. Doing this with fast pulses, too fast to allow the electrons to be ripped off the atoms in the first place, thus no heat. We all know the TPU heats up badly however, so this is not the case.

Dave L



Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: sparks on January 16, 2008, 07:09:21 PM
@libra_spirit

       The valence electrons of a good conductor are barely bound to the neucleus. They form an electronic cloud with valence electrons meandering between atoms. There are no defined valence orbitals as the valence shell is in a constant state of flux.  Energy can travel through this electronic cloud in a number of ways.  It can be radiated and take on the form of an emwave, it can be a compressive wave like sound energy,  or it can be mass flow like wind.  The electronic valence shell configuration is more a construct of external forces than the typical protonic construct.  Electrons have mass just like every other form of matter.   So why wouldn't their vectored kinetic energy give rise to inertia and the gyroscopic effect.  Heating of a conductor arises from a number of influences.  The most obvious is the potential energy being converted to kinetic energy in the electrons who find themselves in the sub-valence shells.
           Do electron's really flow in a vacuum tube?  I see it more as a potential energy wave.  Once the wave strikes the collector of the tube it is converted into light energy if it is a picture tube or emf if it is say a rectifier tube.  Even if there is an electron flow it is no where near the mass flow in the tpu. You can have the power of a bullet equal to the power of a merry go round at full tilt.
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: libra_spirit on January 16, 2008, 09:36:05 PM
"The valence electrons of a good conductor are barely bound to the neucleus. They form an electronic cloud with valence electrons meandering between atoms. There are no defined valence orbitals as the valence shell is in a constant state of flux.  Energy can travel through this electronic cloud in a number of ways.  It can be radiated and take on the form of an emwave,"

This is a light velocity wave, and travels best along the wire surface where it meets a different density material. The transverse wave.

"it can be a compressive wave like sound energy," 

This is the longitudinal wave, tesla wave, and expressed in the pancake coils

"or it can be mass flow like wind." 

This is electric current and gives rise to the resistance of the wire to drop voltage or burn up power.
This resistance is measured for each conductor based on its wire diameter or cross sectional area.

"The electronic valence shell configuration is more a construct of external forces than the typical protonic construct." 

Then external forces hold atoms together? Keep the electrons in orbits around the nucleus at very specific distances? From where does the positive charge originate for all electric fields?

"Electrons have mass just like every other form of matter.   So why wouldn't their vectored kinetic energy give rise to inertia and the gyroscopic effect." 

It does for sure. at 1800 times lower then the nucleus of the atom. Plus it spins in only one plane of motion compared to the nucleus which has spin involving multiple planes of motion. Any diamagnetic fields will seek the greatest distance from both poles of magnetic fields, this creates spin in multiple planes, and anchors the nucleus from wanting to turn quickly. Magnetic field in electron shell can rotate it's poles at microwave frequency with little or no centrifugal forces produced.

"Heating of a conductor arises from a number of influences.  The most obvious is the potential energy being converted to kinetic energy in the electrons who find themselves in the sub-valence shells.
Do electron's really flow in a vacuum tube?" 

Then the electron beam in a TV set is photons? We all know photons cannot be steered by magnetic fields. The deflection yoke could not steer photons to scan the beam through the raster. Whatever is in the vacuum tubes is responding to magnetic field.

"I see it more as a potential energy wave.  Once the wave strikes the collector of the tube it is converted into light energy if it is a picture tube or emf if it is say a rectifier tube."

If this were true vacuum tubes would radiate EM waves and loose energy like antennas. The only way to focus them in a CRT would be a directional beam antenna.

"Even if there is an electron flow it is no where near the mass flow in the tpu. You can have the power of a bullet equal to the power of a merry go round at full tilt."

Electrons are in a spin state already at .999999995 c while inside the atoms, they are already spinning with this centrifugal force as little merrygo rounds. While manipulating this spin face does have a little effect, I agree it cannot explain the TPU "feeling" like a gyro, unless their is a nuclear interaction of some kind happening.

Dave L
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: sparks on January 17, 2008, 01:25:21 AM
  @libra_spirit

       Copper a conductor has an amorphous molecular bond.  The bond angles aren't dictated by the proton neutron structure of the neucleus at all.  This leads me to believe that the bonding valence electron orbitals are not protonically dictated either.  The sub valence shell electrons are dealing with the protonic charge quite well.  Therefore you don't have to rip the electron out of a protonically dictated orbital to have an electrical current in a conductor.   Electron orbitals are not solely dictated by the protonic charge and it's position in the neucleus.  There are em exchanges  between the neucleus and the electrons which allow for electrons to exist at differing distances from the neucleus at different orbital speeds spins mass and size.  In other words not all electrons are created equally.   
      I alway thought a crt has vertical and horizontal deflector plates. What would stop controlling an em wave from being influenced by  magnetic or electric field manipulation.
    In the end it is probably vibratory inertia from the windings jumping around way or a combination of both.    Still think there is a high amperage dc current  limited only by the collector valence electrons in an orbital current inside the tpu collector winding.  Lots of electrons going fast in a circle.  Inertia enough to be experienced ?
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: libra_spirit on January 17, 2008, 03:52:04 AM
"Copper a conductor has an amorphous molecular bond.  The bond angles aren't dictated by the proton neutron structure of the neucleus at all.  This leads me to believe that the bonding valence electron orbitals are not protonically dictated either.  The sub valence shell electrons are dealing with the protonic charge quite well." 

The angles of the electron shell are dictated by the prevailant magnetic field, as are the proton shell. They will both allways right their spin to meet the magnetic field and then preccess around it. As in, they both seek to spin in alignment with the same magnetic field. The electron shell recovers at microwave velocity, and the proton shell recovers at mhz rates of turn for their independent magnetic fields. The electrons personal magnetic field is always aligned with the orbitals magnetic field. It is the poles of the magnetic fields that are manipulated, but during a turn of the field both spin against one another and try to spread out their spin planes and tilt their axis of spin away from one another.

"Therefore you don't have to rip the electron out of a protonically dictated orbital to have an electrical current in a conductor.   Electron orbitals are not solely dictated by the protonic charge and it's position in the neucleus.  There are em exchanges  between the neucleus and the electrons which allow for electrons to exist at differing distances from the neucleus at different orbital speeds spins mass and size.  In other words not all electrons are created equally."

An electron floats and spins at a constant distance from the nuclear mass because as it pulls away it meets a force pulling it back, and as it gets sucked in by positive charged nucleus it is also pushed back away by diamagnetic field. This is the diamagnetic effect at specific distances. All force outside the nuclear mass is EM. Within the mass the strong force is added to the mix and bonds the ptotons to the neutrons tightly.

The diamagnetic force I believe is located in the neutrons, however this is only a guess. It would have to be reactive and sense the strength of the electrons coupling with it.
 
"I alway thought a crt has vertical and horizontal deflector plates. What would stop controlling an em wave from being influenced by  magnetic or electric field manipulation."

An RF wave as leaves an antenna is photons, and as light they are not effected in direction of propagation by magnetic fields no more then a flashlight beam is. The deflection coils are magnets, and deflect an electron beam because the electron beam has a magnetic field. You could not shoot this out of an antenna short of lightning. In a small spark gap on a tesla coil magnets are used to steer and control the sparks properties. An electric arc shooting into a magnet will allways strike the edge of one pole it will never hit the end of the magnet. A radio wave will pass through without being bent at all.
 
"In the end it is probably vibratory inertia from the windings jumping around way or a combination of both.    Still think there is a high amperage dc current  limited only by the collector valence electrons in an orbital current inside the tpu collector winding.  Lots of electrons going fast in a circle.  Inertia enough to be experienced ?

This could very well be, I would love to know how to set up these conditions to get electrons this free to move this fast in copper medium! Without burning up the copper. This is the $64,000 question. Its good to shoot these scenerios around, and try to see from all sides on these models.

Consider also the electrons you would have flying around in coils at 90 degrees to one another may be the key to generating a mass field in itself. If this is the case then the electrons interacting in two planes of spin may be the actual force being harnessed, and the wires become superconductors in this mode of operation. I have often wondered if you could tilt all the electron spin one direction and then flow current through the wires without upsetting there magnetic alignment, is there an alignment to produce this superconductor effect?

But what would this do to the lightbulb?

Thanks,
Dave L
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: sparks on January 17, 2008, 10:28:42 PM
libra_spirit

"An electric arc shooting into a magnet will allways strike the edge of one pole it will never hit the end of the magnet. A radio wave will pass through without being bent at all."

   This is interesting because the transverse em wave acts as all potential emf yet it radiates.  So it's radiation must be driven by a force that is  neither electrical or magnetic or gravitational.  It is not a rolling magnetic electrical construct  which I was taught it to be.  I postulate that the potential energy is radiated through the Universe due to anti-gravity or what I call dispersion force. 

         The crt is just an electron gun and the electrons are just dipolar electro-magnetic constructs.  So the electrical potential across the tube  causes the electron kinetic response, the ray of electrons is created by magnetic concentration of the emitted electrons and the ray is swept up and down back and forth via electric fields of the plates in the tube, while the amount of electrons emitted is controlled by the grid potential causing intensity changes in the ray.  This ray strikes a coating of matter that changes the electron kinetic energy into light emission.  And the light energy radiates into the room because it is dispersed via electromagnetic wave propogation which is dispersion force at work again.  How does the emitter of the tube feel the potential of the screen.  I believe this is called a positive charge.  I believe a positive charge arises from the second force of the Universe called gravity.  The protons positive charge arises from a fundamental force to concentrate or collect.  Energy is dictated by the relation of these two forces.  Matter a state of equilibrium of these two forces.
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: libra_spirit on January 18, 2008, 01:03:01 AM
libra_spirit

"An electric arc shooting into a magnet will allways strike the edge of one pole it will never hit the end of the magnet. A radio wave will pass through without being bent at all."

   This is interesting because the transverse em wave acts as all potential emf yet it radiates.  So it's radiation must be driven by a force that is  neither electrical or magnetic or gravitational.  It is not a rolling magnetic electrical construct  which I was taught it to be.  I postulate that the potential energy is radiated through the Universe due to anti-gravity or what I call dispersion force. 

         The crt is just an electron gun and the electrons are just dipolar electro-magnetic constructs.  So the electrical potential across the tube  causes the electron kinetic response, the ray of electrons is created by magnetic concentration of the emitted electrons and the ray is swept up and down back and forth via electric fields of the plates in the tube, while the amount of electrons emitted is controlled by the grid potential causing intensity changes in the ray.  This ray strikes a coating of matter that changes the electron kinetic energy into light emission.  And the light energy radiates into the room because it is dispersed via electromagnetic wave propogation which is dispersion force at work again.  How does the emitter of the tube feel the potential of the screen.  I believe this is called a positive charge.  I believe a positive charge arises from the second force of the Universe called gravity.  The protons positive charge arises from a fundamental force to concentrate or collect.  Energy is dictated by the relation of these two forces.  Matter a state of equilibrium of these two forces.

I would suggest a thrid force, one of tempic field or spin momentum. The only force being propagated by the light photons that move straight and are not bent by the magnetic fields. As the electron shells of atoms absorb these photons they have a reaction to increase or decrease their spin and thus their voltage.

This is the force missing in the universe [dark matter] and is contained within spin, its propagation is via light energy.

Dave L

Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: sparks on January 18, 2008, 04:10:17 AM
        This force then would be a force to stay as is which would give rise to inertia.  This force always needed to be overcome before potential energy converts to kinetic energy.  The Earth then is a large dipole converting potential energy from the sun into spin.  The orbit distance from the sun predicated by this conversion.  The orbit velocity predicated by the interaction of gravity, and dispersion. 
    I have stated before that Mark's tpu is a model of the Earth or a large electron.
I believe the Earth is bombarded with emwaves of large magnitude and wavelength constantly.  The Earth's magnetosphere interacting with these waves and converting the energy of these waves into a vortex electrical current inside the core of the Earth.  This vortex energy is coupled to the liquid core of the Earth and gives rise to the Earth's spin and magnetosphere construct.  I believe Mark's tpu works the same way.
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: angryScientist on January 22, 2008, 07:08:21 AM
Here are some more visuals of the basics. Never hurts to keep the basics in mind.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n225/abebarker/DeflectionStandered.jpg)

Above; Electron and proton starting with the same direction of travel. The two are deflected in an opposite sense because of their charges.

Proton = red, Electron = blue, Magnetic flux = green

Below; Electron and proton starting with opposite directions of travel. This time the two are deflected in a similar sense because they travel in opposite directions. Obviously their periods of rotation differ because one is ~1800 times more massive.

(http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n225/abebarker/DeflectionOpposite.jpg)
Edit: Oops... I meant to put an image tag not a url.
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: sparks on January 22, 2008, 03:41:50 PM
@angry scientist

   I believe what you depicted was proton travel due to magnetic alignment of the neucleus with a changing magnetic field?
Title: Re: Gyroscopic effect
Post by: angryScientist on January 24, 2008, 05:19:56 PM
@sparks

Actually I was trying to depict a free electron and a free proton moving through a steady magnetic field and the force exerted on them that tends to change their direction of travel. It's the same kind of diagram that you could find in a physics text book. That's what I was trying to do any way. ;)

I guess I have never been too spectacular at explaining myself, at least that's what the judge would have said. ???  JUST KIDDING.