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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: Michel on July 16, 2005, 06:45:50 PM

Title: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on July 16, 2005, 06:45:50 PM
Hello has all!

Gravity motors:

http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/
http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/9_en.shtml

I awaits your comments.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on November 20, 2005, 08:46:12 AM
Method of checking by calculations of the engine 01 11357:

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775&start=15

______________
S.M.
http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on January 06, 2006, 12:33:27 PM
Les principes de fonctionnement et les calculs d'un flotteur du moteur 01 11357
 
Le fonctionnement d'un flotteur. Ex.:
 
(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image003.jpg) (http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/page5.html)
 
Nous fabriquons le flotteur (de volume variable) de telle fa?on, qu'en ?tat du volume minimal il p?se 10 kg? SOUS l'EAU, et en ?tat de volume maximum il p?se moins que l'eau (-)10 kg, pour qu'il ?merge ver la surface. Par ex., si son poids est = 110 kg, son volume est = 100 litres en son ?tat de volume min. et 120 litres dans l'?tat du volume max..
Le flotteur est herm?tique, ? l'int?rieur se trouve l'air et son m?canisme, par ex.:
 
(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image007.jpg) (http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/page5.html)?
 
Le m?canisme comprend la masse (n'importe quelle masse en b?ton par ex. ou un volume remplie de sable), qui est fix?e au bout d'un bras de levier. Dedans se trouvent les (ou le) ressorts ? gaz, et le piston. Le ressort ? gaz c'est un cylindre avec le piston, rempli par l'azote sous pression. Les ressorts ? gaz, par ex. sont utilis?s dans les automobiles pour le maintien de la porti?re arri?re (ou de capot), qui s'ouvre de bas en haut.
La flotteur se trouve sous l'eau, par ex. ? la profondeur 3 m, le piston tourn? ver le haut, comme montr? sur le dessin:
 
(http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05510/Poplavok_1.jpg) (http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/page2.html)
 
Nous analysons que se passe :
La masse (par ex. d'un poids = 100 kg) se d?placera ver le bas, elle d?placera (attirera ? l'int?rieur) le piston, en diminuant le volume du flotteur et en comprimant les ressorts ? gaz (auxquels nous stockons l'?nergie potentielle).
A la profondeur 3 m la pression de l'eau = 0,3 kg /cm?. Cette pression agit sur le piston avec la force, proportionnelle a la surfasse du piston. Si la surfasse du piston = 800 cm?, l'eau ? la profondeur de 3 m agira sur le piston par la force de : 800 * 0,3 = 240 kg. Au bout de bras du levier on aura 240/2 = 120 kg. Si les ressorts ? gaz se trouvent au bout du levier, sur les ressorts on auras le poids de la masse (100 kg) et la force de 120 kg, provenant du piston. Au bout de bras du levier on auras : 100 + 120 = 220 kg. Nous choisissons les ressorts ? gaz d'une force de pouss?e = 220 kg.
 
La flotteur diminue son volume, son poids sous l'eau devient = 10 kg et il cule ver le fond. Admettons que la profondeur de la pissine est = 8 m. Le flotteur passe de la profondeur de 3 m jusqu'? la profondeur de 8 m. Chemin parcourus = 5 m.
 
Admettons que la hauteur du flotteur permet ? la masse de se d?placer ? la distance = 50 cm.
Le parcours de la masse = 50 cm. Puisque le piston est pouss?e par le milieu du levier, il passera la distance 50/2 = 25 cm. La surfasse du piston = 800 cm? * 25 cm = 20 000 cm.cube = 20 litres. Le d?placement du piston ? diminu? le volume du flotteur ? 20 litres.
Pour un poids de 110 kg et? le volume (du flotteur sous l'eau) de 100 litres, son poids (sous l'eau) est = 10 kg. Le flotteur de 10 kg "tombe" d'une hauteur des 5 m (sous l'effet de la gravitation).
Le flotteur a "tomb?" (coul?) ? la profondeur de 8 m. La masse ? l'int?rieur du flotteur se trouve en bas, le piston est d?plac? (est attir?) ? l'int?rieur.
 
Maintenant nous retournons le flotteur ? 180 ?. Pour cela on doit lever un poids de 10 kg ? la hauteur de 50 cm (le flotteur p?se sous l'eau 10 kg, la masse se trouve en bas) pour que la masse passe au dessus. Le parcourt de la masse = 50 cm.
Le flotteur se retrouvera dans cette position :
 
(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image003.jpg) (http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775&start=15)
 
La gravitation et les ressorts ? gaz (ils rendront l'?nergie accumul?) d?placeront la masse ver le bas, pousseront le piston ver le bas (de l'int?rieur ver l'ext?rieur), ayant augment? le volume du flotteur de 20 litres. Maintenant le flotteur est plus l?ger que l'eau, il p?se sous l'eau (-)10 kg et va monter ver le haut, ver la profondeur de 3 m, l? on l'arr?te.
 
Le flotteur, "en tombant" de la hauteur de 5 m produit l'?nergie et pour le retourner, il faut aussi d?penser l'?nergie. C.t.d., le flotteur (10 kg) "tombait" d'une hauteur de 5 m et pour le retourner, il faut le lever (son poids de 10 kg en le retournant) ? une hauteur de 50 cm.
D'ici : 5 m - 0,5 m = 4,5 m - la distance, sur la quelle le flotteur produit l'?nergie.
L'?nergie ne d?pend pas de la trajectoire, mais seulement de la hauteur.
Au dessus (? la profondeur 3 m) il faut le retourn? de nouveau, en d?pensant la m?me quantit? d'?nergie que en bas, et il coule, etc.
 
Pour que les flotteurs se retournent elles-m?mes et pour augmenter la puissance de syst?me, nous fixons les flotteurs ? une cha?ne (ou les cha?nes), qui contournent les roues et les flotteurs se retournent, en contournant les roues.
Par ex. comme ?a :
(le sch?ma)
 
(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image001.gif) (http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/9_en.shtml)?
 
Les flotteurs se retournent ? 180 ? en haut et ? 180 ? en bas, en contournant les roues et ils produisent le travail utile (l'?nergie) en descendant (en coulant) et en remontant (en flottant ver le haut).
C'est tout.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on January 06, 2006, 02:25:37 PM
I think this machine will work.
But be warned,...it is a lot of work to make such a machine. :(
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on March 15, 2006, 09:53:28 PM
Perpetuum Mobile:
http://debattons.jexiste.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30954&sid=ca4b17e794d2ec3ce0832135a96684d4#30954

Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on March 25, 2006, 12:23:44 AM
I can see by the links that they have put really big efforts in this nice desings:

(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image001.gif) (http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/9_en.shtml)?

In order to understand how this machine is suposse to work let me see if I can simplify it.

Imagine a heavy ball (pool ball for example) in a empty water glass, cover the glass with rubber (a piece of a balloon for example) when the glass is upwards the ball is in bottom of the glass and the rubber cover is flat.
When you turn the glass downwards the ball will be pressing the rubber down and the ruber will not be flat, it will be pushed a little out because of the weight of the ball.
All OK up to here.

Now make two of those or more and attach them to a axel one in oposite to the other (one glass upwards and the other downwards) and introduce it in water.
The rubber in the glass that is upwards will be press down into the glass due water press.
The rubber in the glass that is downwards has press fron the water as well but has the ball pressing the rubber down so the deformation in that rubber should be lees than the other, that may means that the volume of this glass is bigger than the glass that is upwards.
Due Archimdes principle the glass that has more volume will be pushed up with stronger force than the one with less volume and will move...

Will work or will not? make calculations...

Let me some minutes and I will make an schema of the siplifyed machine.
 
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on March 25, 2006, 12:32:55 AM
Here it is:
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on March 25, 2006, 08:34:44 AM
Calculations: http://diagtools.free.fr/forum1/viewtopic.php?p=33#33
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on March 25, 2006, 11:22:45 AM
Make the calculations againg there is some thing really wrong.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on March 25, 2006, 11:32:33 AM
Make the calculations againg there is some thing really wrong.

Why??

P.S. http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775&start=15
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on March 25, 2006, 11:37:58 AM
In that calculations masses and theyr relative positin to the wheels have not been taken in account.
I just fond by another post in here a very interesting link with manny different machines like that.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on March 25, 2006, 11:48:45 AM
Here one speaks about Perpetum Mobile 01 11357 http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/page2.html? and not about the machines which do not work.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on March 25, 2006, 09:47:24 PM
There is nice drawings in that page, but to make nice drawings and design complicate machines dont makes them work if the principle does not work, belibe me do the right calculations and you will see that it does not work.
If not that machine will even work on air as it is a fluid, not water will be need...
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on March 25, 2006, 10:48:25 PM
?nergie 100% propre. Free energy.

The operation of a float of the engine 01 11357 (http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr)

The operation of a float. Ex.:

(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image003.jpg) (http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/page5.html)

We manufacture the float (variable volume) in such way, that in state of minimal volume it weighs 10 kg UNDER WATER, and in a maximum state of volume it weighs less than water (-)10 kg, so that it emerges worm surface. Ex., if its weight is = 110 kg, its volume is = 100 liters in a its state of min. volume and 120 liters in the state of max. volume.
The float is hermetic, inside is the air and its mechanism, by ex.:

(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image007.jpg) (http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/page5.html)?

The mechanism includes/understands the mass (any concrete mass e.g. or a volume filled with sand), which is fixed at the end of an arm of lever. Inside are them (or it) springs with gas, and the piston. The spring with gas it is a cylinder with the piston, filled by nitrogen under the pressure. The springs with gas, e.g. are used in the cars for the maintenance of the back door (or of cap), which opens upwards.
The float is under water, e.g. with the depth 3 m, the piston turned worm the top, as shown on the drawing:

(http://xs60.xs.to/pics/05510/Poplavok_1.jpg) (http://perpetuum.monsite.wanadoo.fr/page2.html)

We analyze that happens: The mass (e.g. of a weight = 100 kg) will move worm bottom, it will move (will attract inside) the piston, by decreasing the volume of the float and by compressing the springs with gas (to which we store the potential energy).
With the depth 3 m the pressure of water = 0,3 kg /cm?. This pressure operate the piston with the force, proportional A overrates it piston. If piston overrates it = 800 cm?, water with the 3 m depth will operate the piston by the force of: 800 * 0,3 = 240 kg. At the end of arm of the lever one will have 240/2 = 120 kg. If the springs with gas are at the end of the lever, on the springs one will have the weight of the mass (100 kg) and forces it of 120 kg, coming from the piston. At the end of arm of the lever one will have: 100 + 120 = 220 kg. We choose the springs with gas of a force of thorough = 220 kg.
The float decreases its volume, its weight under water becomes = 10 kg and it cule worm the bottom. Let us admit that the depth of the pissine is = 8 m. The float passes from the 3 m depth until the depth of 8 Mr. Chemin traversed = 5 m.
Let us admit that the height of the float makes it possible the mass to move at the distance = 50 cm. The course of the mass = 50 cm. Since the piston is pushed by the medium of the lever, it will pass the distance 50/2 = 25 cm. Piston = 800 cm? overrates * 25 cm = 20 000 cm.cube = 20 liters. The displacement of the piston with decreased the volume of the float to 20 liters. For a weight of 110 kg and the volume (of the float under water) of 100 liters, its weight (under water) is = 10 kg. The float of 10 kg "falls" from a 5 m height (under the effect of the gravitation). The float "fell" (run) to the depth 8 m. The mass inside the float is in bottom, the piston is moved (is attracted) inside.
Now we turn over the float to 180 ?. For that one must raise a weight of 10 kg to the 50 cm height (the float weighs under water 10 kg, the mass is in bottom) so that the mass passes to the top. Mass = 50 cm traverse. The float will be found in this position:

(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image003.jpg) (http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=775&start=15)

The gravitation and the springs with gas (they will return energy accumulated) will move the mass worm bottom, will push the piston worm bottom (interior worm outside), having increased the volume of the float by 20 liters. Maintaining the float is lighter than water, it weighs under water (-)10 kg and will assemble worm the top, worm depth the 3 m, there one stops it.
The float, "while falling" from the 5 m height produces energy and to turn over it, it is also necessary to spend energy. C.t.d., the float (10 kg)"fell" from a 5 m height and to turn over it, it should be raised (its weight of 10 kg while turning over it) to a 50 cm height.
From here: 5 m - 0,5 m = 4,5 m - the distance, on the which float produces energy. Energy does not depend on the trajectory, but only on the height. For the top (with the depth 3 m) it is necessary turned over again, while spending the same quantity of energy that in bottom, and it runs, etc.
So that the floats are turned over themselves and to increase the power of system, we fix the floats at a chain (or chains), which circumvent the wheels and the floats are turned over, by circumventing the wheels.
Ex. like that: (the diagram)

(http://www.izobretenija.ru/images/vashi_27/image001.gif) (http://ntpo.com/invention/invention2/9_en.shtml)?

The floats are turned over to 180 ? in top and to 180 ? in bottom, by circumventing the wheels and they produces useful work (energy) while going down (while running) and while going up (while floating worm top).

Calculation of engine 01 11357 (exemple).

It is considered, that the wheel axle sup. is on the level of overrates water, and one selected the weight of mass.
Ex. one selected the weight of the mass = 100 kg.
Ex. the distance enters the axes of the wheels = 5 m.
From here, the pressure has the depth 5 m = 0.5 kg/cm?. (to include/understand, to see the point "D", diagram).
From (for this depth) we calculate the surface of the piston, in not do not forget that one with the springs has gases, which are compress (the spring has gas were compressed by the mass, when the float this found in top, of dimension right, on the level of the wheel axle sup.).

To counter the pressure of water the 5 m depth there is lays out:
100 kgf (weight of the mass) + 100 kgf (the force of pushed springs has gas) = 200 kgf (this force is at the end of the lever).
Holding account that the piston is thorough (worm outside) by the medium of the lever, the force is multiplied by 2: 200 kgf X 2 = 400 kgf.

Since the distance enters the axes = 5 m and to the pressure of water to the 5 m depth = 0.5 kg/cm?, consequently:
 - 400 kgf/0.5 kg/cm? = 800 cm? (piston overrates it).
From here one calculates coefficient 800/100 = 8. (it is for the convenience, it is easier to make calculate them more detailed with him).

Now, that one found the surface of the piston, one makes the correction for the depth, to which this finds the engine.
The engine is under water, the higher axis this finds with the 3 m depth by ex.
From here: - the pressure has the 3 m depth = of 0.3 kg/cm? (not "B" fig. 1).
We lay out of this pressure on the piston with the point "B" and it will produce the force of thorough on the piston of 800 cm? (the surface of piston) X 0.3 kg/cm? (pressure of water) = 240 kgf. Since this force is applied to the medium of the lever, then, at its end we will obtain: 240/2 = 120 kgf, which is added to the force, which comes from the mass, weighing 100 kilogrammes (fig. 1 point "B").
On the springs with gas there will be (to compress them) the force of 100 kgf (weight of the mass) + 120 kgf (coming from the pressure) = 220 kgf, which one will store in the springs with gas (the force of propulsion, that one will use, when the float moves at the point "D").

The distance between the axes = 5 m, that means that the lower axis this finds with the depth: 3 m + 5 m = 8 m. With this depth (not "D" fig. 1) pressure = 0.8 kg/cm?. The piston of 800 cm? operates the force, causes by the pressure of water (0.8 kg/cm?).
800 (piston overrates it) X 0.8 (pressure of water) = 640 kgf This force operate the piston of outside worm the interior.

Now let us look at the force on the side opposite of piston:
- 100 kg - the weight of the mass.
- 220 kg - the force of propulsion of the springs.
Total: 100 kgf + 220 kgf = 320 kgf. This force acts on the end of the lever. In the medium of the lever (and on the piston) one will have 320 X 2 = 640 kgf.

The forces of propulsion are identical on two sides of the piston (outside and interior).
One little to leave like that. In this case in high A right (not "B") the piston will move worm the lower interior (increases the pressure of water in connection with the increase depth), and in bottom left it has will move worm outside above point "D"; (the pressure of water will decrease).

But one little also to increase the weight of the masses with 5-10-20... kg to calculate these weights it is necessary to hold account, primarily, of the losses for frictions, which comes from the springs with gas.

It is all.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on March 25, 2006, 11:11:38 PM
Michel, build oune like the one I have posted before it will cost you around $10 and around a couple of hours.
If it works you will be famous, if it not you will only have lost $10 and 2 hours.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on March 29, 2006, 02:10:47 AM
Michel, did you built it?

If so let me know if it worked or if it stoped in a position like the picture attached.

And belive me it is no a question of friction, if you look close to the drawing and the position of the weights (balls) in relation with the wheel you will see it clear.

You can complicate the machine as much as you want, that will not make it work...
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on March 31, 2006, 02:46:51 PM
You can complicate the machine as much as you want, that will not make it work...
If it too is complicates for you, it is not my fault.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on March 31, 2006, 03:23:50 PM
I think this sort of machine (saga.jpg) can work but the weights need to be in the middle of the machine near the axis.
Beware of the time you have to put in it!
I have been making water motors for some 2 years in a row and the ones that could work had 2 weights to push or pull 4 pistonlike floats on the outside.
The timing is important for the weights to fall.
I used condoms for the rubber seals around the pistons because it is so thin.
The problem I had was leakage all the time and in the end I gave up.
Still I feel it can be done.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: hartiberlin on April 02, 2006, 12:28:20 AM
@Tink,
can you post a few pics of your design ?
Without leakage did some designs work ?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on April 02, 2006, 01:41:11 AM
Hello Stefan,
It is more then 10 years ago now and after my divorce they have been thrown away.
I will make a drawing of one that could have worked ( but it hadn't a lock and release device yet).
There was one design which I think allmost worked because it was big enough (some 50 cm wide) and i will make a drawing of that one.
The other ones were failures and a big waste of time.
But you know how it goes,....youv'e got something in your head and it wont let go ;D
Have some patience.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on April 02, 2006, 09:19:44 PM
You can complicate the machine as much as you want, that will not make it work...
If it too is complicates for you, it is not my fault.

What I did is just simplify the machine and encrease where the problem is, in order to help in understanding  it better.

You can center better the weights, but the weights will always have to be able to flip a little in order to increase/decrease the volumes, and that little is enogh to put the machine in equilibrium and snd stop it due friction.

Just found this nice site, and here is a manny of this nice desings and why they do not work.
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/buoyant.htm
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on April 02, 2006, 10:20:40 PM
That is not what I made.
Like I said the weight should be in the middle as much as possible (near the axis), and in my case I used a bicycle wheelspoke to push a sort of cilinder out or in so an air bubble inside the lower arm (cilinder) will be pushed to the lowest "cilinder".
It is very simple if you see it and the lower "cilinder" went past the highest point (some 10 to 15 degrees) and wanted to go down again to be stopped in the end because the airbubble worked as a brake now.
That was a test with the weight blocked by a piece of wood to see what would happen and from that moment I knew I found it.
Leakage was a big problem so I made an other design which I thought would work much better but it did not work at all (shame that is).
The design that could have worked needed a mechanism to hold the weight down and only release the weight at top dead center so cycle starts again.
I promissed to make a drawing and I will but I have a family life too so have some patience.
If people want to make what i made and improve on it with a good functioning hold and release mechanism great!
Just be warned that it will take you far more time then you think.
The power output from this will not be high I think (just a few Watts at the most), but it is cool to see it keep on running till something wears out.
My interrest is mostly in the Steven Mark coil now because i think that has most merit (no moving parts, and lots of power).

(Edit)Oops, sorry Gonzo, I didn't read your post well enough I think.
What I said above was for the website you gave.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on April 02, 2006, 10:56:17 PM
You meen something like this:

(http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/icw-a.gif)

The buble is hold in the outside arms position mecanicaly until the load (black balls) arrive to them and then released to move to the center...
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: FreeEnergy on April 02, 2006, 11:04:39 PM
nice work _GonZo_

Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on April 03, 2006, 12:23:18 AM
I forgot to say that the tubes are filled with a fluid like water.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on April 05, 2006, 06:15:56 AM
Well here it is at last.
I found an old scanner so I was now able to scan it.
I hope you can all read it because I am not to awake at the moment so my handwriting is bad.
It is sort of a gravitywheel (one element of it) with water as medium.
Like I said, I am not doing anything with this anymore.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: hartiberlin on April 05, 2006, 02:08:09 PM
Gonzo , nice animation, but how are the weights lifted inside the inner tube ?
What are these elevator things in the inner tube ?
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: infinite1 on April 08, 2006, 04:08:09 PM
You meen something like this:

(http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/icw-a.gif)

The buble is hold in the outside arms position mecanicaly until the load (black balls) arrive to them and then released to move to the center...


Gonzo,

Interesting work.  Can you go into some detail about how the bubble is held while the ball is not in the bubble and then released to float upward when the ball returns to the bubble?

Thanks!

________________

Infinite 1
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on May 08, 2006, 02:10:12 PM
The buble shutle can be handled in center position with any mechanical system, it does not really matter...

I know that in the motion it looks like it can work but it does not...

Any one can see where is the lie about this motion?
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: nightwynd on May 08, 2006, 04:56:05 PM
a great concept really, but you are right, it is doomed to failure from the beginning :)
The vertical arms will not swing all the way back to vertical again - the horizontal ends would trap it somewhere in the 60-70 degree range, not 90 where the animation "stops"...
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: _GonZo_ on May 08, 2006, 05:02:24 PM
Corect  ;)
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on June 02, 2006, 06:30:30 AM
http://diagtools.free.fr/forum1/viewtopic.php?p=50&sid=a2e4dad81ac7a9f28d8fe2e44b40c5ea#50
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: nightwynd on June 05, 2006, 10:04:33 PM
hey Michel, can't remember where i saw it, but somebody had done the math on that design...and *sigh* it is already doomed to failure.  :'(
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on June 06, 2006, 06:15:07 AM
hey Michel, can't remember where i saw it, but somebody had done the math on that design...and *sigh* it is already doomed to failure.  :'(

The maths on "that design..."  is here: ? Reply #13 on: March 25, 2006, 09:48:25 PM ?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,388.msg5659.html#msg5659
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: hartiberlin on June 09, 2006, 03:31:09 AM
Well here it is at last.
I found an old scanner so I was now able to scan it.
I hope you can all read it because I am not to awake at the moment so my handwriting is bad.
It is sort of a gravitywheel (one element of it) with water as medium.
Like I said, I am not doing anything with this anymore.


Hi Tink,
nice idea.
Did it work, when you tried it ?
Did the lower arm have enough torque to shiftturn the upper
arm under water ?
Then did the lead mass fall down again and push the air
down and create another big air container under water to get
a new torque arm for raising again ?
Many Thanks !
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 09, 2006, 09:43:06 AM
Hello HartiBerlin,





Did the lower arm have enough torque to shiftturn the upper
arm under water ?
Yes it had more then enough power, it even went some 30 to 45 degrees past the top dead center and then stopped and went back to top dead center (with the wooden block inside to keep leadweight in place)


Then did the lead mass fall down again and push the air
down and create another big air container under water to get
a new torque arm for raising again ?

That was a problem!
This device needs a lock and release system because the leadweight will shift when arm is past horizontal position.
It may sound strange but weight is only pushing aircontainer down when in vertical position, and after some 20 degrees it will go to the middle again a bit.

So to answer your first question;
Did it work, when you tried it ?
Yes and no.
Yes, I proved (to myself anyway) that there is more power coming of it then to keep the device going.
No, because I haven't taken the time to make a lock and release system for the leadweight to fall at the right positions.

Do I think this device can work with a well functioning lock and release device build in?
Yep I think so.
To get a few KiloWatts you will need a huge machine and you will have your wear on parts :(
I am no longer building these machines.
Solidstate OU is what I am looking for now.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: hartiberlin on June 09, 2006, 12:16:46 PM
Hmm Tink,
this is very interesting !
The lock and release mechanism could be done
by a special doubble position pulse relay which needs
only a short pulse on enable and disable again the locks.

Another question is, if the air container up force was strong enough to
keep the lead weight in the upper position still at 9 to 12 o?clock ?
As the lock must only release it at 12 o?clock , the 45 degrees rotation
through 9 to 12 o?clock is the hardest part for the up-force, as the lead weight
has to be lifted in this phase...
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: hartiberlin on June 09, 2006, 12:20:46 PM
P.S: Hmm, maybe one could do this with Helium or Hydrogen in normal air ?
Okay, the forces wouldn?t be this big as under water,
but to prove the concept a small model would be okay...!
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 09, 2006, 04:05:32 PM
The lock and release mechanism could be done
by a special doubble position pulse relay which needs
only a short pulse on enable and disable again the locks.
Mmm, is possible but I like a mechanical solution better because it is under water and may get wet.
And you also have to bring wires into the closed system and that makes it more complicated I think.

Another question is, if the air container up force was strong enough to
keep the lead weight in the upper position still at 9 to 12 o?clock ?
As the lock must only release it at 12 o?clock , the 45 degrees rotation
through 9 to 12 o?clock is the hardest part for the up-force, as the lead weight
has to be lifted in this phase...
Yep true, the part from 9 to 12 o'clock is the hard part but,...it gained so much speed from 6 to 9 o'clock it will be no problem.
Don't forget the weight is allmost in the middle and has hardly any effect.

P.S: Hmm, maybe one could do this with Helium or Hydrogen in normal air ?
Okay, the forces wouldn?t be this big as under water,
but to prove the concept a small model would be okay...!
Air as medium (with helium inside) might not work I think unless it is big enough.
From my experience I would say water as medium is best.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 12, 2006, 01:14:12 PM
If people want to build this device, here are some tips.
Don't make it too small because little errors are hard to correct.
Don't make it too big because it will cost you more material,...and make sure the thing fits in the bucket/bathtub you want to test it in. (make sure it is all underwater)
Use easy to work with rubber, the thinner the better like condomrubber or surgeons handgloves.
Don't make the leadblock too heavy,..just heavy enough it will push the "cilinder" open.
Make sure the shape of the leadblock (weight) is so that a part will allways be past the axis so that that part plays no drag role (that is part of the trick of this device I think)
Make sure your wife loves you enough for you being in your workshed all the time, buy her flowers!
Multiply the time you think you need to build it in by at least 4 times,...8 times might be more realistic.
And then your biggest problem; you still have to invent the lock and release device!
Good luck ;D
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 23, 2006, 02:51:36 AM
Mmm, no reaction anymore from anyone?
I understand that as long as there is no movie of a working device to see not many people are willing to build this.
And of course no design of a working lock and release device is given yet so I can't blame you people.
I am the only one who has seen the very strong upswing of this device and the lack of the internal weight to get the air bubble down (because the weight is allmost in the middle and a great part of the weight is canceled and has no drag effect).
HartiBerlin is right, we should try and rebuild this thing just to see if it has merrit.
I think it will be only me rebuilding it (after more then 10 years now lol) because it is my baby.
There is a trick to get the weight of the weight in an easy way without calculating it and I will post that later because I have to draw it so it is easy to understand.
You only have to calculate the dimentions of the weight but that is not hard if you know the weight of lead per liter.
I will try to make this thing with common household things so when it is running even slightly everybody can rebuild it easily.
Allow me at least a month or more to rebuild it.
I allready have an idea for the lock and release device and I think it will take a long time before we can rebuild the T.P.U. from Steven Mark, that is why I will give it a go again.
Wish me luck!

Keep you posted, Tink.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 24, 2006, 11:22:48 PM
No one wishing me luck?
Thanks for ignoring me!
Maybe you peeps think I am a disinformation agent or just a stupid jerk stealing your time with nonsense hoaxes.
I asure you I am not although hard to proof.
I already bought some plastic caps for pvc pipes and rubber household-gloves (the thin ones) for the "pistonparts"
(still don't know how I should call it in english).
Bought one length (4 meters) 5/8 inch pvc pipe too and two small tubes of superglue.
I need to buy a bronze stick (for copper-hardsoldering) to use as a piston push-pull stick (help with english words please).
The lead (around a kilo) I still have so don't need to buy it.
I have drawn some other lock and release devices which I think might work too, though I am not sure what design to use yet.
I have been thinking about what HartiBerlin has said about using electromagnets but I have desided to use a mechanical device because when it works it should be as simple as possible so that poor people in Africa or other poor people in other countries can easily rebuild it.
You may think that I am just a little bit too sure about this whole thing and maybe you are right.:)
But on the other hand, I have seen what I have seen many years ago and I think it might be worth to rebuild it because it has merrit.
Every father loves his child so forgive me if I am too overconfident.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Gregory on June 25, 2006, 12:21:18 AM
I wish you good luck Tink! :)
I think the water type devices aren't the best solutions for a gravity type machine, but maybe they have easier and more friendly details to think about than the well known overbalanced type wheels.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: FreeEnergy on June 25, 2006, 03:21:20 AM
good luck. when you get it running upload a video here asap.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 26, 2006, 11:44:48 AM
Thanks Greg & Gregory and FreeEnergy for your moral support :)
There is something else we should know and that is that Indian inventors have already made a gravity engine.
See these links:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Meerut_Graviational_Energy_Claim
http://ww.smashits.com/video/snoop/7988/new-source-of-energy.html (video)
http://in.news.yahoo.com/060624/139/65ctd.html
So I wonder if I should continue or not.
For as far as I could see it is not the same design as mine.
When I first made the most promissing design and I thought I found it, it made me wonder.
I could not be the first one to discover this, many people must have thought about this and also made working models.
I think the above links will make a storm in inventorland because it is so darn simple.
I think it is best to continue rebuilding my toy, just in case the above invention is not heard of anymore.
Keep you posted.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: hartiberlin on June 26, 2006, 02:44:47 PM
Hi Tink,
it would be great, if you could again replicate your old design.
Many thanks for providing the links to the new Indian gravity wheel.
I have downloaded the video and placed it under a new thread.

Anyway, if you could at least show the pipe turn by 180 degrees and
then switch manually the lock and show it keep on rotating,
then we will be convinced, that your principle works.
Maybe for easier building you could also use a flaoting solarcell
ontop of the water to generate some small power for a
magnetic double switch relay, which controls the locking and releasing...
Okay, then it would be not purely gravitational but anyway, it might be
eaiser to control this way the lock.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 27, 2006, 03:10:02 AM
Maybe a magnetic double switch relay is the best option just like you say HartiBerlin, because it is hard to tell how and when the weight will fall otherwise.
Still it would be nice if it was all pure mecanical, but maybe later.

To Jake:
Quote from other thread
The best I can tell, nobody has ever created a device that "self runs" and actually demonstrated it in a credible, open way.

There is a pattern of making claims and never substantiating the claims.  There is sort of a standard list of what I will call "excuses" for why the devices can't be shown.

There is even a pattern in how the "inventors" communicate.  Something I find very strange is the misspelling of words, which appears to be done on purpose, by people who actually know better.  It is as though you have to look uneducated to be taken seriously in this arena.  There are other communication patterns, but purposely misspelling words is the strangest thing.
/end quote.

I don't know if you where talking about me or not, but I do understand what you mean.
About my claim, I am starting to rebuild it but like you said it hasn't selfrun yet or maybe it never will and I make a fool of myself to go so public.
About the misspellings, I am Dutchman and I can asure you my Dutch is much better but I thought that as long as people understand me it would be okay.

Anyway, I am not angry at you. ;D

If there are people who want to build this too there is a simple way to get the weight, look at the drawing.
You can use all sorts of things like a glass or bottle of water or what have you.
Just make sure the float goes open enough as you want it to open, lets say 1 or 2 centimeters?
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: lancaIV on June 27, 2006, 04:12:25 AM
Hey Tink,the Dutch-team received "Free Energy"
from Figo/Maniche et Co. !
Nice game,so fair !

S
  dL   
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 27, 2006, 05:03:48 PM
Are you talking about soccer LancaIV?
The last match had a little bit too much yellow and red to my taste, maybe Holland will do better in 4 years time?:)

Anyway there is something I forgot to tell about the thin rubber handgloves and the float.
The rubber should NOT be stretched because you will need much more weight to get the float open and the rubber might tear!
So if you want to open the float just 2 centimeters, give it 2.1 or 2.2 centimeter unstretched rubber material and of course add twice 1.5 centimeter to that for the connection to the end caps (which I will glue with locktite superglue).
I thought this was obvious but just in case.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: hartiberlin on June 27, 2006, 09:40:39 PM
Hi Tink,
is the
How_to_get_the_weight.jpg
only to show, how to get the right ampunt of lead weight ?
Otherwise If you would turn this by 180 degrees the water would
come into the pipe...
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Tink on June 27, 2006, 10:41:09 PM
 ;D

Yep it is just one of the steps in building the toy from scratch.
There are so many shapes of floats possible and it is a little hard to calculate the weight needed for this thing, that I came up with this simple way of doing it.
Once the weight is know, you can put the weight on the scales and it tells you how many grams of lead are needed.
When you know that, it is simple to calculate what the volume of lead you have and you can start drawing the shape you like most.
A rectangular shape is best and keep in mind that the lead block should allways have a big part on the other side of the axis so that a great part of the weight cancels the (gravity) drag effect.
So when the shape of the weight is drawn on paper and you think it is good, then it is time to look for pieces of triplex or multiplex wood for the moldingbox.
I remember putting some candlewax in it and made the whole inside of the box fatty by melting the candlewax with a hairdryer.
Then I measured the lead I would need and put it in an old soupspoon and let it melt on a stove.
It is a smelly job poring the molten lead into the mold because the candlewax starts blowing smoke but the leadblock when cooled down will have smooth sides then,...just make sure you have all windows open or do it outside.
When you have the leadblock ready then it is time to start looking for a nice round or other shaped plastic box (pvc is my favorit because it goes well with superglue) where you have enough room for the shifting leadblock.
And then comes the hard part which I have not done yet, the lock and release device!
When the mechanism works on paper then it is a question of glueing the bits and pieces to gether and make the second float just like the first one.
Then comes the bearing bit and luckily I found and old axis with a connectionplate from an old experiment so that should not be that hard.
And then when all is done and it doesn't work as I thought it would,....I made a fool out of myself.
So I hope for the best.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on August 13, 2006, 03:08:22 PM
Who understood the operation of the machine??
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on January 05, 2007, 10:47:44 AM
http://www.veljkomilkovic.com/OscilacijeEng.html
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on January 09, 2007, 02:37:53 PM
Videos:
http://leweb2zero.tv/video/macrohumaniste_374529578baa14c
http://robertix.free.fr/telechargements/generateur-torbay1.avi
http://robertix.free.fr/telechargements/generateur-torbay2.avi

Links:
http://radiesthesie.org/Transcrits/LucLachapelle/GenerateurHomopolaire.html
http://club.telepolis.com/LICYTA/GALERIADEFOTOS.htm
http://www.perendev-power.com/index.htm
http://robertix.free.fr/telechargements/generateur-perendev.ogg
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on February 26, 2007, 12:41:39 AM
http://snipurl.com/18jaz
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on September 02, 2007, 04:12:22 PM
Free Energy is here: http://energie.noosblog.fr
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Michel on April 11, 2008, 10:36:47 PM
Hello!
 Who with understood how that functions?? -->> http://energie.noosblog.fr/perpetuum_mobile/engine_01_11357.html
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Sprocket on April 13, 2008, 04:49:45 AM
'Tink' posted this almost 2 years ago! - seeing as he never posted a follow-up in this thread, one would have to assume that it either didn't work, or he decided not to bother re-building it.  Pity...
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: FatBird on April 13, 2008, 04:01:09 PM
I found this old Free Energy Indian Wheel on the Peswiki site.  It said that grooves were cut out into the wood for small weights (small round stones?) to slide back & forth as the Wheel revolved.

I am not an expert, but couldn't a person attach lengths of Plastic Pipe, half filled with Water, to a Wood Wheel?  These lengths of Plastic Pipe would be attached right where the photo shows the old grooves.

Of course, the ends of each pipe would be sealed with plastic caps to keep the water in.

Plus, it seems like the OUTPUT could be DOUBLED by placing a Second Set of Pipes on the Back Side of the Wood in Identical Positions.

Comments welcome.



.
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: Low-Q on November 10, 2008, 07:50:51 PM
You meen something like this:

(http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/icw-a.gif)

The buble is hold in the outside arms position mecanicaly until the load (black balls) arrive to them and then released to move to the center...

If the bubbles are big enough to move the ball upwards, the bubbles must also be able to displace the same or more weight in water. As the bubble rises, the bottom of this tube will be filled with that weight of water and get heavier, so it will prevent rotation.

Vidar
Title: Re: Gravity Motors = Free Energy
Post by: AB Hammer on November 10, 2008, 08:51:33 PM
If the bubbles are big enough to move the ball upwards, the bubbles must also be able to displace the same or more weight in water. As the bubble rises, the bottom of this tube will be filled with that weight of water and get heavier, so it will prevent rotation.

Vidar

 Low-Q

 Very good and this is an interesting string you brought back up.