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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??  (Read 1189347 times)

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1680 on: January 24, 2008, 11:53:12 PM »
Speaking of femm we have to find out who did the simulation @btentzer cited once: http://www.geocities.com/deasyart/steorn/OC_sim_one_stator_a.JPG

hdeasy on the Steorn forum.

Hugh also posted this today at:
http://overunity.org.uk/forum/index.php?topic=71.0


Sean - I had some time after all and could make the following comparisons to show
how sensitive the gain is to parameters: well, okay, some of the changes to go to Al's setup were a bit large:

I will now try to see how far I can 'bend' my old sim to Al's setup whilst retaining a gain.

My 'old'setup                               
Strength of rotor magnet/ Teslas  -----------------------    0.05
Strength of Stator magnet/ Teslas   -----------------------  0.20
Viscous lag time / Sec        -----------------------        0.001
Radius to outer rotor pole / m -----------------------       0.100
Radius to inner rotor pole / m  -----------------------      0.085
Radius of Stator magnet/  m -----------------------          0.025
Initial Stator angle / Deg  -----------------------          20.0
Mass of rotor / Kg   -----------------------                 0.200
Mass of stator / Kg ------------------------                  0.0025 
         
*KE Gain / Joules   after 6.5 sec          0.018*

-------- Al's setup -----------------
Strength of rotor magnet/ Teslas  -----------------------    0.10
Strength of Stator magnet/ Teslas   -----------------------  0.20
Viscous lag time / Sec  -----------------------              0.001
Radius to outer rotor pole / m  -----------------------      0.072
Radius to inner rotor pole / m -----------------------       0.052
Radius of Stator magnet/  m  -----------------------         0.025
Initial Stator angle / Deg    -----------------------        20.0
Mass of rotor / Kg   -----------------------                 0.254
Mass of stator / Kg  -----------------------                 0.010

Al's setupKE Gain: Negative for inital stator angles 30, 40, 50, 120, 210, 300, 330 deg.
 (though for some of these the rotor spun down,  giving peaks of gain of about 0.01 J briefly (just PE -> KE -> PE peaks)
  before the gain is converted into a loss of hundreds of Joules!)

The mass of the stator was the first parameter I tweaked to go from my 'old' sim to the OCAL one. In the old sim, it was rather low at 0.0025 kg. A figure quoted for OCAL has been 10g (5g for the magnet and 5g for support, holders ec.). It seemed unrealistic to have anything much lighter, so I set it to 10g.
However, with this heavier stator the gain disappeared!!

Thus it seems the gain is very sensitive to weight of stator. It would be good to get it down as low as possible. Since you had to zonk it up with blue-tack, you might have had a light stator to start with: I would take off the blue-tack if I were you.

In order to balance the heavy stator, I thought to increase the rotor weight. At 400g, the gain was there again ! But it was only 0.0015J - less than a tenth its previous value. If I increased to 800g I got 0.004J and there was little to be gained by increasing rotor weight further. So I adapted a weight of 800g to be consistent with stator weight 10g.

Next magnet strength was considered: my old sim had stator stregth 0.2T - which I believe is what OCAL had. But my rotor strength was only 0.05 Teslas. I now increased it to 0.10 Teslas, which I believe was closer to OCAL's value. This had a positive effect on the gain, increasing it to 0.017 J : almost what we were getting for the old sim.

By the way - I always have start speed of rotor about 190 RPM and set stator to be always in 4:1 AGW synch..


I am sure Hugh will not mind me posting this here,

Cheers

Sean.

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1680 on: January 24, 2008, 11:53:12 PM »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1681 on: January 24, 2008, 11:54:58 PM »
Speaking of femm we have to find out who did the simulation @btentzer cited once: http://www.geocities.com/deasyart/steorn/OC_sim_one_stator_a.JPG

hdeasy on the Steorn forum.
Could you ask him to come over here to discuss his modeling? Thanks.

Offline MeggerMan

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1682 on: January 24, 2008, 11:56:00 PM »
@Sean,
PM sent (forgot to mention length, whatever you think is best - about 12-14mm ?)

@Omni,
N42's all K&J, N38 ebay

Only thing I can think is you have some very powerful magnets near your testing area. ;)
(perhaps the other N42 magnets)
Have you got some magnetic film for field testing, it may show a skewed pole, in that the pole is coming out the corner of one end.
How many pairs are like this?

Regards
Rob

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1682 on: January 24, 2008, 11:56:00 PM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1683 on: January 25, 2008, 12:01:10 AM »
Thanks @CLaNZeR. So let's start from this--the simulation of @alsetalokin's was for 1kgauss for the rotor and 2kgauss for the stator. Was that induction considered to be at the surface of magnets or elsewhere?

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1684 on: January 25, 2008, 12:03:10 AM »
@CLaNZeR,

The guy should know better than that. The abuse will evaporate and the abusers will have to eat their hats if independent parties happen to reproduce the effect. Therefore, it's in his best interest to be as cooperative as possible.

Sorry Omni

Life is not as clear cut as that mate.

People in life have different sensitive levels and what may seem to one person a reasonable, clear to the cut question can indeed offend another.
To the person asking that question they see nothing wrong in what they have asked, to the person being asked it can make hell of an impact.

EXAMPLE: Omni I know you and I know how you ask questions to get what you need too know, in the logical way you need too know and when I see a post from you that makes me cringe I know it gets other peoples back's up, but I just accept it and think, well that is OMNI and that is his way of asking stuff.
I do not get offended because I know you by now. Yet others will get really annoyed at the direct approach you have and will not be as forward with the answer, because you did not take time to get to know that person and also to get too know how to ask the question. Get my drift?

Interaction is not always about facts and good to remember that this OU stuff is not business orientated, it is a hobby to most people and they give what their spare times allow them to give, so we should not expect anything of anyone.
If AL was claiming OU and asking you to send money, then yep everyone has a right to ask questions, that is not the case here though.

Cheers

Sean.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1684 on: January 25, 2008, 12:03:10 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1685 on: January 25, 2008, 12:03:46 AM »
@MeggerMan,

I did the measurements in the same way for all the magnets. Now I have a new batch of N42 (N38 haven't arrived yet), will redo the measurement and will let you know the outcome.

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1686 on: January 25, 2008, 12:05:00 AM »
Speaking of femm we have to find out who did the simulation @btentzer cited once: http://www.geocities.com/deasyart/steorn/OC_sim_one_stator_a.JPG

hdeasy on the Steorn forum.
Could you ask him to come over here to discuss his modeling? Thanks.

Why do you not just pop over to the forums, have a look and ask him yourself. You have questions, why should he come to you?

hehehe  ;D ;D ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1686 on: January 25, 2008, 12:05:00 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1687 on: January 25, 2008, 12:11:39 AM »
@CLaNZeR,

You probably missed the fact that I left Steorn forum for good not to get blamed that I've scared the guy away with my direct approach. If he disappears the way that sorry Mike suddenly disappeared after wetting everybody's appetite with his ostensible cooperation for a while in replicating Bedini's device, everyone will know that at least the reason for the disappearance won't lie with me.

Offline mudwump

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1688 on: January 25, 2008, 12:14:20 AM »
This is in reference to the strobe video. One thing that I noticed is the the magnets are not symmetrically placed around the rotor. It appears that there about a 2mm jump in the various placements. This might be important for an asymmetrical force for acceleration.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1688 on: January 25, 2008, 12:14:20 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1689 on: January 25, 2008, 12:18:36 AM »
@mudwump,

Where's the asymmetry, in @alsetalokin's or in @CLaNZeR's? I've tried with asymmetric placement of rotor magnets but to no avail. Maybe you could suggest a particular pattern.

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1690 on: January 25, 2008, 12:19:01 AM »
@CLaNZeR,

You probably missed the fact that I left Steorn forum for good not to get blamed that I've scared the guy away with my direct approach. If he disappears the way that sorry Mike suddenly disappeared after wetting everybody's appetite with his ostensible cooperation for a while in replicating Bedini's device, everyone will know that at least the reason for the disappearance won't lie with me.

Omni nope I did not miss that, but my forums http://www.overunity.org.uk have nothing to do with Steorn.

But in my forums I just move anything that takes the Thread OFF topic too much to another area.

Nothing to do with Steorn.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1690 on: January 25, 2008, 12:19:01 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1691 on: January 25, 2008, 12:26:12 AM »
@CLaNZeR,

You probably missed the fact that I left Steorn forum for good not to get blamed that I've scared the guy away with my direct approach. If he disappears the way that sorry Mike suddenly disappeared after wetting everybody's appetite with his ostensible cooperation for a while in replicating Bedini's device, everyone will know that at least the reason for the disappearance won't lie with me.

Omni nope I did not miss that, but my forums http://www.overunity.org.uk have nothing to do with Steorn.

But in my forums I just move anything that takes the Thread OFF topic too much to another area.

Nothing to do with Steorn.

Now, that's a good idea. I, for one, won't need to read any of, say, @RunningBare's posts. None of them both here and in Steorn forum has contributed almost anything to the problem and I wish I had a way to just not see them at all. On another note, no offense, but at this moment I'd prefer to follow the discussion in just one thread where the most replicators have concentrated their discussion. Seems to me this one is the thread which, of course, may change in the future.

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1692 on: January 25, 2008, 12:31:09 AM »
On another note, no offense, but at this moment I'd prefer to follow the discussion in just one thread where the most replicators have concentrated their discussion. Seems to me this one is the thread which, of course, may change in the future.

Fair enough mate and we will try to update this thread on as much as we can, from what is going on in other places, but other people feel the same that are contributing to other threads in other places and we cannot expect them to come over here.
I cover alot of forums and alot of areas because in my mind that is the only way too keep up with what is going on with so many people involved in this replication attempt.

Cheers

Sean.

Offline MeggerMan

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1693 on: January 25, 2008, 12:34:54 AM »
@Mudwump
This is in reference to the strobe video. One thing that I noticed is the the magnets are not symmetrically placed around the rotor. It appears that there about a 2mm jump in the various placements. This might be important for an asymmetrical force for acceleration.
I think you're right, I measured the paused video on the screen with a ruler and it does look like the poles marked black are closer together and the silver poles are further apart, but its not a consistent thing.
Regards
Rob


Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1694 on: January 25, 2008, 12:36:02 AM »
@Sean,
PM sent (forgot to mention length, whatever you think is best - about 12-14mm ?)

No problems Rob

Will catch up on PM's tomorrow and cut a couple of lumps off for you, then you can cut them down to the size you need.

Cheers

Sean.

 

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