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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??  (Read 1195055 times)

Offline robbie47

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1665 on: January 24, 2008, 10:06:05 PM »
What puzzles me in @CLaNZeR's third video is the fact that the stator seems to turn uniformly.  Try to spin the rotor slowly and watch the stators.  Each one has moments of arrest in between spinning, at that not synchronously for the three stators. Probably at high speeds some averaging of the fields occurs which makes the spin of the stator smoother and yet keeping it AGW.

@ Omni:
At high speeds the stators act like small flywheels and therefore avaraging more than at low speed, don't you think?
Looks like the field strenght values are extreemly critical here.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1666 on: January 24, 2008, 10:07:52 PM »
What puzzles me in @CLaNZeR's third video is the fact that the stator seems to turn uniformly.  Try to spin the rotor slowly and watch the stators.  Each one has moments of arrest in between spinning, at that not synchronously for the three stators. Probably at high speeds some averaging of the fields occurs which makes the spin of the stator smoother and yet keeping it AGW.

This is right, but I think that the lack of irregularities in rotation are due to the momentum gained by both magnets (remember they're running at high speed). The effect is visible only when they have almost no momentum (=slow speeds).
I agree. The thing is, probably there should be some conditions created for a slight dis-balance while utilizing this uniformity of spin at high speeds for the effect to kick in.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1667 on: January 24, 2008, 10:08:37 PM »
What puzzles me in @CLaNZeR's third video is the fact that the stator seems to turn uniformly.  Try to spin the rotor slowly and watch the stators.  Each one has moments of arrest in between spinning, at that not synchronously for the three stators. Probably at high speeds some averaging of the fields occurs which makes the spin of the stator smoother and yet keeping it AGW.

@ Omni:
At high speeds the stators are like small flywheels as well and therefore avaraging more than at low speed, don't you think?
Looks like the field strenght values are extreemly critical here.
Can't agree more.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1668 on: January 24, 2008, 10:10:34 PM »
I really wish @CLaNZeR would do his fine strobo experiment with dampers not equidistant from the stator, as is in the video.

He's ahead than most of us, I think you'd agree, and has supplied so far invaluable info. Wish if he could do the separation test @MeggerMan suggested (or maybe also give some data for the kgauss on both poles of each magnet) to have a better picture for the strength of his stator and rotor magnets.

(Please, don't get mad at me, mate, for asking you to do all this. I'm not ready yet, still waiting for my stuff to arrive. I'll post such data as soon as I get the equipment and do the tests).

Offline RunningBare

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1669 on: January 24, 2008, 10:23:26 PM »
For anyone doing the Junk yard challenge like me here is an idea to use for the dampers, I found one of these wind chimes at the local market, the tubes are aluminum, walls are not very thick, but while trying one out on my replication there was a marked difference in operation, not easy to explain, but stator AGW syncs easier and the wind down time seems longer than it does without the dampers, still in seconds, I'm continuing to experiment, will throw out more data as I get it.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1670 on: January 24, 2008, 10:26:35 PM »
For anyone doing the Junk yard challenge like me here is an idea to use for the dampers, I found one of these wind chimes at the local market, the tubes are aluminum, walls are not very thick, but while trying one out on my replication there was a marked difference in operation, not easy to explain, but stator AGW syncs easier and the wind down time seems longer than it does without the dampers, still in seconds, I'm continuing to experiment, will throw out more data as I get it.
Correct. That's what @CLaNZeR's graph showed as well--with dampers the wind down time is greater than without them and the form of the rpm vs. time curve differs from that taken without dampers.

Offline robbie47

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1671 on: January 24, 2008, 10:33:27 PM »
What puzzles me in @CLaNZeR's third video is the fact that the stator seems to turn uniformly.  Try to spin the rotor slowly and watch the stators.  Each one has moments of arrest in between spinning, at that not synchronously for the three stators. Probably at high speeds some averaging of the fields occurs which makes the spin of the stator smoother and yet keeping it AGW.

@ Omni:
At high speeds the stators are like small flywheels as well and therefore avaraging more than at low speed, don't you think?
Looks like the field strenght values are extreemly critical here.
Can't agree more.

@Omni,
I thought about your remarks a little longer.
At the final speed there must be a driving force that exactly compensates the losses (e.g. friction, air draft)
This makes the amount of losses extreemly critical as well and therefore the quality of the applied bearings.

At lower speed there must be a driving force higher than the losses at lower speeds, at least in Al's first video.
Also at lower speeds the avaraging effect of the stator will be less. There is most likely a wobbling phase effect.
This effect will still be there at high speed but less, due to the higher flywheel effect.
Mmmmmmm, need to think a bit longer on this still....

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1672 on: January 24, 2008, 11:11:00 PM »
Guys I am trying to do tests from peoples suggestions as well as doing my own experiments, I have been on this 24/7 for over 2 weeks now and will get around to various suggestions that I am taking note off, even if not replying.

My 6061-T6 1/2 SOLID ROUND BAR arrived today, so cut a couple of bits off and quickly bodged into stator, and yep it does make latching easier :)
Not done any wind down tests yet too see the difference between the normal Alluminium dampners and using these ones.

I was looking at the base tonight and following the OC PDF http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/OC_motor_011708.pdf

I drew up another Base as I wanted a exact base with no movement to do some other tests, but it just does not look correct.
AL was saying about the 5mm spacing between the Rotor edge and the Stator outiside surround and stating that it is critical. At 4mm the air gap is too little at 6mm the Magnet looses sync.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/confusedbase.jpg)

Cheers

Sean.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1673 on: January 24, 2008, 11:20:26 PM »
@CLaNZeR,

I guess @Jdo300 will comment on this better than anybody else because he studies these dimensions in depth and then got @alsetalokin's agreement.

Also, it seems to me the 5mm gap for the effect to appear refers to his particular stator to rotor magnetic field strength ratio in the first place (let alone the frictions etc.)  which we don't know and which isn't necessarily the same as the one we have in our machines.

Offline MeggerMan

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1674 on: January 24, 2008, 11:29:08 PM »
Hi Sean,
have you got a supplier for the 6061-T6 1/2 SOLID ROUND BAR?

Repulsion results:

N42 1/4"OD x 1/2" rod vertical repulsion = 31mm
N38 6mmOD x 12mm (6 of 6mm OD x 2mm discs) vertical repulsion = 28mm
N42 Ring 1/2" x 3/16" x 1/4 repulsion to N42 1/4"OD x 1/2" rod = 38mm
Tried both orientations with all the above and I could not see any difference.

Al's Results (from memory):
N?? 1/4"OD x 1/2" rod vertical repulsion = 30.5mm
N42 Ring 1/2" x 3/16" x 1/4 (with bearing) repulsion to N?? 1/4"OD x 1/2" rod = 37mm

Regards
Rob

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1675 on: January 24, 2008, 11:33:00 PM »
Hi Sean,
have you got a supplier for the 6061-T6 1/2 SOLID ROUND BAR?

Hi Rob

PM me your address at my site and I will cut you off a couple of chunks.
Let me know what size middle hole you want and how thick you need.

Cheers

Sean.

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1676 on: January 24, 2008, 11:38:04 PM »
Also, it seems to me the 5mm gap for the effect to appear refers to his particular stator to rotor magnetic field strength ratio in the first place (let alone the frictions etc.)  which we don't know and which isn't necessarily the same as the one we have in our machines.

Yep agree , if the effect is down to 1mm spacing on his Rig, then exact replication is going to be on the agender even more.
What a nightmare when exact is given in snippets and clues LOL

I am not into hassling people as I think people should be allowed too do and say what they want to say and not be judged upon their opinions or statements, if it is not hurting anyone else in life, but I have requested if AL could do us another video of the original with the quality that he did his last video.
I am 90% sure the answer will be NO after the amount of abuse the poor chap has taken, but my time is running out on this project as I need to go do some real life things to pay the bills.

No harm in asking and as agreed with AL, anything sent to me will be made public.

Cheers

Sean.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1677 on: January 24, 2008, 11:38:06 PM »
@MeggerMan,

Thanks. That's strange why I'm seeing a difference. Recall that I also measured the kgauss on both ends and there was a difference as well. Did you get your magnets from K&J?

Offline A-Z

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1678 on: January 24, 2008, 11:49:50 PM »
Speaking of femm we have to find out who did the simulation @btentzer cited once: http://www.geocities.com/deasyart/steorn/OC_sim_one_stator_a.JPG

hdeasy on the Steorn forum.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1679 on: January 24, 2008, 11:51:47 PM »
@CLaNZeR,

The guy should know better than that. The abuse will evaporate and the abusers will have to eat their hats if independent parties happen to reproduce the effect. Therefore, it's in his best interest to be as cooperative as possible.