Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube?? (Read 1333924 times)

hydrocontrol · « **Reply #960 on:** January 16, 2008, 04:01:49 PM »

Quote from: CLaNZeR on January 16, 2008, 12:45:15 PM

Good work mate, Your Rig is looking really nice.

Cheers
Sean.

Not near as nice as your CNC stuff. Yours I consider an exact replication. Mine is a gallant attempt.

All I have access to is a 40 year old Bridgeport mill and a 40 year old vacuum tube controlled Monarch Lathe. Lots of hand cranking time..

On top of that my budget only allows so much in 'fun' materials like special magnets.. Still I plod along.

Your videos show a real effect with the syncing so I am getting a better feel that Al's work may be on the up and up and not a hoax. It is apparent that this setup is going to need a lot of 'fine' tuning. Not an easy throw it together and it works right away job. I suspect it will be a 'throw it together' job after we figure out that it really needs mechanical gear syncing which would sync it all the time instead of hit and miss hand/air spin syncing. Anyways that is down the road.

If you get bored I have another idea for a PPM that would be super easy to make with your CNC machine and I think you have all the parts.

Later, TomG

Prophmaji · « **Reply #961 on:** January 16, 2008, 04:03:30 PM »

Quote from: Grimer on January 16, 2008, 03:42:46 PM

It would be very informative to have a video showing the rotor RPM for a stretch before and after reversal from GW to AGW takes place. If there is such a video, apart form Alan Setalokin's, could someone give me the link, please.
Who is she that cometh forth as the morning rising - Fair as the moon. Bright as the sun - Terrible as an army set in battle array.

Truth is not subject to opinion: otherwise, there would be no such thing as "science", or "fact", or "objectivity".

It's always good to remember that in truth, there is no such thing as a fact, none whatsoever. All is theory. If one expects that 'man' created 'laws' are going to lead to a more complete understanding of the universe, they've got another thing coming. That point alone, is the unadulterated history of science itself. Time and time again, the only fact that has held, is that all is theory and no such thing as a fact exists. If one continually moves upon the idea of facts being everywhere... they merely end up at the same brick wall as everyone else. One can use science as a map, but ultimately, that's all it is. We can only suspect that over 90% of the map is blank, for example. Objectivity is a fool's game, with the 'human being' in the chain. It'll never happen, and has been shown to never have happened, in the long run. The scientist has been shown to be one of the worst when it comes to understanding the basics of the idea of the injection of the scientist himself within the context of the experiment at hand. Ie, great at linear thinking, extremely poor at the art of lateral thinking and self analysis, or basic psychology (class 101--or further). This constitutes a loss of the other 50% of the points that balance out reality.

When the basic analysis of the oscillating 2-d stress fields in interaction creating the dual vortex that is an atomic structure in flux-balance..when that is complete as a mental exercise..it becomes clear that objectivity is woefully inadequate as a descriptor and point within science.

robbie47 · « **Reply #962 on:** January 16, 2008, 04:43:30 PM »

Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

[edit] maybe attached method could be used. Assuming that the spread in weight is neglectable.
Not sure whether the resolution will be sufficient though.

blue_energy · « **Reply #963 on:** January 16, 2008, 07:24:36 PM »

Quote

Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets? Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.

Jdo300 · « **Reply #964 on:** January 16, 2008, 08:19:48 PM »

Quote from: blue_energy on January 16, 2008, 07:24:36 PM

Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets? Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.

That is true. However, the difference in strength can be compensated for by adjusting the distance between the stator and rotor. In my setup, I will simply adjust the height of the rotor on the axle to fine tune the distance.

God Bless,
Jason O

robbie47 · « **Reply #965 on:** January 16, 2008, 08:33:36 PM »

Quote from: Jdo300 on January 16, 2008, 08:19:48 PM

That is true. However, the difference in strength can be compensated for by adjusting the distance between the stator and rotor. In my setup, I will simply adjust the height of the rotor on the axle to fine tune the distance.

This will only help to compensate for the avarange rotor magnet strength, but not if the 8 rotor magnets have a significant spread in strength.

FunkyJive · « **Reply #966 on:** January 16, 2008, 08:36:04 PM »

Prophmaji wrote:

Quote

If you head for a DC field/current with the 'loosening/resonant' effect AC field of the correct frequency superimposed upon it, you have your desired overunity.

I personally believe that there could be substance in this - i.e. finding the right "resonance". Such an example would be where if one were attempting to shatter a glass (overcoming the molecular bond that holds it all together), then only the precise pitch or near-harmonic will create sympathetic resonance in the glass, with the minimum of SPL to do so. Not a perfect analogy however, though an appreciably simple one.

The Bedini principle operates on what he terms the "sling-shot" effect with respect to molecules forming the electrolyte of a battery, citing a nominal frequency range of something between 1MHz and 6MHz for a lead-acid battery. At resonance he claims that the battery will effectively charge itself.

Self-charging of a battery would suggest a negative resistance in the battery - where a negative resistor is central to the observations claimed with the Bearden MEG (Motionless Electromagnetic Generator).

And then the Adam's Motor, based upon the back-EMF generated by a coil, where although current reduces and voltage increases (theoretically yielding the same envelope power with a voltage and current trade-off), a fast transient spike would represent the fast edge of a high-frequency waveform.

Perhaps the Adams motor would then suggest similarity with the principles of the Gaussian Gun, where a slow approaching magnet speeds up under EM influence and yielding considerable propulsion to the foremost ball bearing of equivalent material, weight, and size.

Finally, I'll add the known effect of 27GHz where water molecules will separate "easily" into their hydrogen and oxygen constituents - though doesn't really fall within the scope of the home experimenter

The permanent magnet motor here may not appear to be similar to the above inventions where electronic switching is taking place, but transcending just beyond a point of maximum repulsion between the cylindrical and bar magnets would result in recovery of the field shape considerably faster than the approaching state of repulsion.

Unless magnetic flux (i.e. not just its effects) is comprehensively understood, there appears to be a common theme in the various inventions and their claims, and the ever-present possibility of something we have yet to discover

FunkyJive

vipond50 · « **Reply #967 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:07:06 PM »

Quote from: blue_energy on January 16, 2008, 07:24:36 PM

Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets? Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.

blue_energy
Just for the record that was an assumption on Al's part. He was guessing that was the gauss value. It funny being in an R&D lab the magnets could have not been compared to an known mag spec or metered to help tie down the gauss value.
Don't take this as a poke toward Al, he really did a good job reporting, but i feel that he was getting pressured by his boss or somebody relating to this discovery.

Regards
Bill

ken_nyus · « **Reply #968 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:19:40 PM »

Quote from: robbie47 on January 16, 2008, 08:33:36 PM

This will only help to compensate for the avarange rotor magnet strength, but not if the 8 rotor magnets have a significant spread in strength.

Anyone have a good idea for "home" testing of a set of magnets, to make it easy to select a group of magnets that have similar strength?

Something like the method proposed by robbie47 above?

Using robbie47's method I guess you could pick one magnet to always be the bottom magnet, and then pop the rest of your magnets in and check the repulsion distance and see if there is any significant difference? (significant would have to be defined here).

Now how to do this for the ring magnets???

vipond50 · « **Reply #969 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:25:14 PM »

Quote from: vipond50 on January 16, 2008, 09:07:06 PM

Quote from: blue_energy on January 16, 2008, 07:24:36 PM
Quote
Since Alsetalokin mentioned that exact distance of the stator magnet to the rotor is quite important, I wonder how important slight differences between the individual rotor magnets strenghts are.
But how to determine the differences in the strength between the used rotor magnets?

And even more to the point: differences between the rated strengths and sizes of the magnets? Most of the rigs I've read about seem to be using N42 magnets for both stators and rotor whereas, reportedly, Al used N35 magnets for his rotor mags.

blue_energy
Just for the record that was an assumption on Al's part. He was guessing that was the gauss value. It funny being in an R&D lab the magnets could have not been compared to an known mag spec or metered to help tie down the gauss value.
Don't take this as a poke toward Al, he really did a good job reporting, but i feel that he was getting pressured by his boss or somebody relating to this discovery.

Regards
Bill

This is off the Steorn Forum by OC

"Comments re Al's prototype:
1) stator magnets are N42s
2) rotor magnets are unknown but less powerful than N42s according to Al, guess is N35

Hope this helps
Bill

Jdo300 · « **Reply #970 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:27:18 PM »

You know, to be honest, I wouldn't worry all that much about the minute difference between the rotor magnets' strength. As long as you bought them all from the same place in one batch, chances are that they should all be pretty much the same field strength. Most NdFeB magnets are sintered and magnetized in large batches which means that they should all have equal field strength. The only acception to this would be if you stressed one of the magnets after recieving it.

You're more likely to have larger tolerance errors in the machining of the rotor and stators than in the field strength of the mags. I'd concentrate more on the tuning between the rotor and stator magnets.

God Bless,
Jason O

blue_energy · « **Reply #971 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:36:24 PM »

Quote

blue_energy
Just for the record that was an assumption on Al's part. He was guessing that was the gauss value. It funny being in an R&D lab the magnets could have not been compared to an known mag spec or metered to help tie down the gauss value.
Don't take this as a poke toward Al, he really did a good job reporting, but i feel that he was getting pressured by his boss or somebody relating to this discovery.

Regards
Bill

Hi Bill,

Ah... I didn't realize that. Then, we still don't know a critical piece of data relating to replication. In Clanzer's design, the stator assembly can be backed off in order to reduce the effect of the magnetic fields upon each other (which seemed smart the first time I saw it, but just gets smarter all the time - that Clanzer is a practical guy!). But, in other designs the distance is set. I'm not an expert on magnetics (actually - faaar from it) but I suspect that raising the stators is not the same thing as backing them off.

vipond50 · « **Reply #972 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:39:15 PM »

Quote from: Jdo300 on January 16, 2008, 09:27:18 PM

You know, to be honest, I wouldn't worry all that much about the minute difference between the rotor magnets' strength. As long as you bought them all from the same place in one batch, chances are that they should all be pretty much the same field strength. Most NdFeB magnets are sintered and magnetized in large batches which means that they should all have equal field strength. The only acception to this would be if you stressed one of the magnets after recieving it.

You're more likely to have larger tolerance errors in the machining of the rotor and stators than in the field strength of the mags. I'd concentrate more on the tuning between the rotor and stator magnets.

God Bless,
Jason O

Hello Jason
Yes I concur, but getting certified magnets in the so called spec and the cost, as u know would increase significantly. As far as getting the magnets from the same batch when ordered who really knows?
I also agree that the concept should be adjustable from as many facet as possible, then if and when the device is operating, measurement (data) can be obtained for future replication.

Regards
Bill

ken_nyus · « **Reply #973 on:** January 16, 2008, 09:43:52 PM »

And remember that Al did mention that 1 mm too close or too far and the effect was not present.

I believe he said that at a 4mm distance between rotor and stator, he felt air effects were creating problems.

At 6mm I believe he said it was too far for the effect, but 5mm worked for him.

(And as has been mentioned, out of a batch of 13 stators, a few(2?) worked easily, a few(2?) he could not get to work, and the rest were in the middle)

lumen · « **Reply #974 on:** January 16, 2008, 10:19:11 PM »

I'm new at this so is this a good place to post a new video?

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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube?? (Read 1333924 times)

hydrocontrol

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