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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??  (Read 1329033 times)

ken_nyus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #810 on: January 14, 2008, 08:47:38 PM »
Quote from: ken_nyus
So in this stator design, the bearings themselves do not rotate?

LOL yes they rotate or waste of time having the bearings.
The brass shafts sit inside of the bearings as the picture above shows.


Sorry I know it is a minor point, but in Al's stator the outer ring of the bearing rotates, here the inner ring rotates.

I know it is a minor point, but these are magnetic steel bearings.

In any case good luck and have fun!

Wish I had a completed rig to play with!

Craigy

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #811 on: January 14, 2008, 08:52:43 PM »
Hi Sean,

Looks great. 

Just a thought, i am of the opinion that the rotor magnets and the stator magnets when doing a reverse spin pulls the magnets toward each other thus forcing the rotation.  If this is true the rotor needs to be as light as possible and the stator needs to be heavier to pull the rotor.

Let me know what you think.

Adam

The idea is a fair one but the rotor in Al?s rig is approching 500 grams, and the general opinion is that the stator should be as light as posible. Using the brass shaft in this way separates the bearing from the stator magnet by some distance which hopefully will reduce bearing attraction drag , but having said that Al?s rig has the magnets plonked right on top of the bearings. If that plays a part i have no idea, just have to knock a few up to see,

CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #812 on: January 14, 2008, 09:09:47 PM »
Quote
800 rpm rotor speed, so you need 4 x that for the sync on the stator, so thats 3200 rpm, I think you'll need some ribs/bumps on the stator to allow it to be spun up to speed with the air line. Bit of a trade of with air resistance.

Have not turned the Tacho on the Stator magnets yet, will try that tomorrow, be interesting too see.
I actually have 2 tacho's here, so can monitor both at the same time :)

Quote
Could you use the tacho to find the max you can spin the stator at by finger?

The Big 20mm thick rotor max's out at around 400 RPM by hand.

Quote
The other thing to try is using the brass you have, increase the stator inertia to help the syncing process.
If you make a small flywheel about 12mm or larger out of brass rod, you could drill series of 2mm holes around the circumference to allow the air gun to work.
I think the holes will create only a small amount of drag compared to bumps.
Sorry for all the suggestions.

Will add them to the list LOL :)

Quote
I brought home two harddisks today with the idea of stripping them for bearings, but it is not that easy. Although I have a set of security torque drivers, some of the hub screws are too tiny even for my set.

I have stripped down many a hard drive and if you Rip out the guts of the motor so there is no drag you can find some really loose ones. You will no way get the Wind Down times of using RC bearings Top and Bottom like Craigy and I use, so do not be too disapointed when you find this out.

Cheers

Sean.

CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #813 on: January 14, 2008, 09:15:31 PM »
Quote from: ken_nyus
Sorry I know it is a minor point, but in Al's stator the outer ring of the bearing rotates, here the inner ring rotates.

I know it is a minor point, but these are magnetic steel bearings.

Hi Ken

So is there more friction on the bearings spinning the outside ring or the inside ring?
Think about it :)

Cheers

Sean.


ken_nyus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #814 on: January 14, 2008, 09:26:42 PM »
Hi Ken

So is there more friction on the bearings spinning the outside ring or the inside ring?
Think about it :)

Cheers

Sean.



Hey Clanzer, I'm not thinking about the friction but the rotating (or not rotating) steel that is magnetic.

But please continue testing!

FunkyJive

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #815 on: January 14, 2008, 09:29:24 PM »
With so little time myself to build one of these things, I would like to ask if someone may be interested in building myself a suitable replication for a "consideration".

What's more, my electronics and scientific knowledge certainly doesn't make up for my lack of fabrication skills required for this device - though would be fun trying  ;D.

That said, I have a considerably simpler electronic counterpart of a motor in-mind (without any stall-points at-all), so perhaps an opportunity for further business if anyone were interested - strictly on the understanding that all findings and positive discoveries will remain public to this excellent forum?


All the best,

FunkyJive
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 10:13:13 PM by FunkyJive »

Bruce_TPU

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #816 on: January 14, 2008, 09:59:35 PM »
@ Sean,

It may not matter, but I believe that with Al's setup, the stator magnets come to the "bottom" of the rotor magnets.  But I think this will make a difference for the latching effect, but if yours are adjustable, and it does not work, that is the first thing I would do, is drop your stators.

Great job as always,

Bruce

CLaNZeR

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #817 on: January 14, 2008, 10:14:16 PM »
It may not matter, but I believe that with Al's setup, the stator magnets come to the "bottom" of the rotor magnets.  But I think this will make a difference for the latching effect, but if yours are adjustable, and it does not work, that is the first thing I would do, is drop your stators.

Hi Bruce

Think I may have to trawl through the 1000's of threads over at Steorn Forums to find this out.
Looking at the various pictures they all seem to show the Magnets level with the top of the rotor magnets, apart from this earlier rig that was photographed at a better angle to tell.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/snoc10.jpg)

Looks like they are half way down the rotor magnets maybe?

Cheers

Sean.

gdr

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #818 on: January 14, 2008, 10:26:49 PM »
Hope this helps - quote from Al in Steorn forum in regards to someone else's rig:

"Just slight differences: the dampers on the real thing are mounted lower. It looks like everything is on the same plane in the model; in the real unit the plane of the rotor magnets skims the top edge of the plane of the stator magnets, and the damper plane skims the lower edge, if that makes sense."

BTW, great work... been intently lurking for quite some time  8)

-goofy

sterlinga

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #819 on: January 14, 2008, 10:46:54 PM »
@ Jason,

Doug Furr asked me to see if I could get some clarification on what the damper things are for and how they mount.

My understanding is that they are to keep the thing from accellerating to destruction.

Any light you could shed on this would be appreciated.

Doug Furr had to go out of state today for an urgent meeting, so he'll probably be a day or two more before he's done with his replication.  I stopped in to see his progress last night.  He was machining the rotor on his CNC machine.  The base is done.  He showed me his bag of hundreds of magnets.

- - -

@ CLaNZer,

Would you mind providing me with your email address?  I understand you wish to keep it confidential, and I will honor that request.  Send to sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com.

Thanks

Sterling

Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #820 on: January 14, 2008, 10:57:35 PM »
OK, got the bearings. The storm didn't help but that place in Boston happened to have the exact recommended bearings. Once in a while one gets lucky. Off to the remaining parts.

unzapped

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #821 on: January 14, 2008, 11:01:10 PM »
Hello all here is my long awaited quote for parts as spec'd in the drawings for the whipmag replication...

>>Hi Jason.

>>We are quoting your parts, 10 assys for $83.75 each.

>>Thank you
>>Terri @ C&D

They are a little more expensive that I originally thought...

In the interest of getting something out of this....

If I get 9 orders... I can get them to you for $94 each plus shipping...
this will get me one for myself and One for each of the 9 lucky folks that want to pay $94 US for them.

In the unlikely event 9 of you are still interested, I have paypal, live in NY, and will take interest as it comes via PM so as to not clutter this thread with this...
I truly thought I could get these done cheaper, it is what it is...

I do know that the quality of the parts from this machine shop is superior, although not sure for a hundred bucks, you will still need to have bearings, magnets, and shafts.

Personally I will probably wait until, clanzer replicates, then build a giant one based on that.
Thanks
UZ

Nicolas Roger

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #822 on: January 14, 2008, 11:35:20 PM »
The LaFonte Group is expecting the magnets to arrive late today.  We will test tonight.

mikestocks2006

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #823 on: January 14, 2008, 11:50:05 PM »
@ Jason,

Doug Furr asked me to see if I could get some clarification on what the damper things are for and how they mount.

My understanding is that they are to keep the thing from accellerating to destruction.

Any light you could shed on this would be appreciated.

Doug Furr had to go out of state today for an urgent meeting, so he'll probably be a day or two more before he's done with his replication.  I stopped in to see his progress last night.  He was machining the rotor on his CNC machine.  The base is done.  He showed me his bag of hundreds of magnets.

- - -

@ CLaNZer,

Would you mind providing me with your email address?  I understand you wish to keep it confidential, and I will honor that request.  Send to sterlingda {at} pureenergysystems.com.

Thanks

Sterling

Hi Alan,
quoted notes:
"...the unit runs faster without the magnokinetic Judson dampers. Typical stator speeds are 8000 rpm, rotor 2000. But the unit is quite unstable at those speeds, maybe due to the cheap bearings I used for the stators. But that's unknown, it could be that the bearing chatter actually contributes to the effect by some chaotic dynamical interaction. Don't ask me with what!
Anyway the unit will run up to high speed but only stays for a short time before the stator "drops out" and the rotor freewheels to a stop. I figured that a little eddy-current damping at high speeds (and proportionally less at low speeds, so the damping at startup speeds is essentially zero.) would do the trick. There was an adjustment process that took a couple hours to find the sweet spot and the orientation, and it seemed so close to an already drilled and tapped set of holes in the base, that I just used the existing holes, even though the positioning wasn't totally optimum..."

I hope this helps
Thanks

mikestocks2006

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #824 on: January 14, 2008, 11:58:57 PM »
It may not matter, but I believe that with Al's setup, the stator magnets come to the "bottom" of the rotor magnets.  But I think this will make a difference for the latching effect, but if yours are adjustable, and it does not work, that is the first thing I would do, is drop your stators.

Hi Bruce

Think I may have to trawl through the 1000's of threads over at Steorn Forums to find this out.
Looking at the various pictures they all seem to show the Magnets level with the top of the rotor magnets, apart from this earlier rig that was photographed at a better angle to tell.

Looks like they are half way down the rotor magnets maybe?

Cheers

Sean.


Hi Sean,
This may clarify the position of the stator magnets compared to the rotor:

quote:
"..., the relative height of the stator and rotor magnets seems important. I don't know if it's because of my particular geometry or whether it is critical to the effect itself, but the magnets shouldn't be in the same plane--that is, I am getting best results when the rotor magnets are rotating in a plane that is just slightly higher than the tops of the stator magnets, rather than down and centered vertically...."

I hope this helps
Thanks