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Author Topic: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??  (Read 1194997 times)

Offline leeanderthal

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1710 on: January 25, 2008, 02:15:54 AM »
You're right RunningBare.  The tape is the give away.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1711 on: January 25, 2008, 02:32:23 AM »
I'm looking at the video one frame at a time and the appearance isn't uniform. Sometimes you see two frames with same position of the tape at other times various other positions--sometimes three, sometimes two stripes per frame.

Offline ken_nyus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1712 on: January 25, 2008, 02:32:37 AM »
Can somebody please give reference to where there are additional magnets on the dampers?

I think it is from back on the bottom of page 110 from Robbie47.

From the new vid, the damper at the top of the video looks like it has something other than just a screw holding it down.

Offline RunningBare

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1713 on: January 25, 2008, 02:40:35 AM »
Can somebody please give reference to where there are additional magnets on the dampers?

I think it is from back on the bottom of page 110 from Robbie47.

From the new vid, the damper at the top of the video looks like it has something other than just a screw holding it down.

I assumed it was some sort of non magnetic clip similar to the image here
(http://www.keyelco.com/images/products/nylspac.jpg)

Offline geodan

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1714 on: January 25, 2008, 02:47:03 AM »
Guys I am trying to do tests from peoples suggestions as well as doing my own experiments, I have been on this 24/7 for over 2 weeks now and will get around to various suggestions that I am taking note off, even if not replying.

My 6061-T6 1/2 SOLID ROUND BAR arrived today, so cut a couple of bits off and quickly bodged into stator, and yep it does make latching easier :)
Not done any wind down tests yet too see the difference between the normal Alluminium dampners and using these ones.

I was looking at the base tonight and following the OC PDF http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/OC_motor_011708.pdf

I drew up another Base as I wanted a exact base with no movement to do some other tests, but it just does not look correct.
AL was saying about the 5mm spacing between the Rotor edge and the Stator outiside surround and stating that it is critical. At 4mm the air gap is too little at 6mm the Magnet looses sync.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/confusedbase.jpg)

Cheers

Sean.


@ Jason,

Can you please comment on this? it sounds like tolerances need to be pretty exact... Several of us are about to order rotor's / bases based on the drawings that CLaNZeR refers to here... do you feel that adjustments need to be made before we place the orders?

Thanks
Geodan

Offline Bruce_TPU

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1715 on: January 25, 2008, 02:54:08 AM »
Can somebody please give reference to where there are additional magnets on the dampers?

I think it is from back on the bottom of page 110 from Robbie47.

From the new vid, the damper at the top of the video looks like it has something other than just a screw holding it down.

Yep, and it is not a magnet.  Blue_ hit on it some time ago.  It is a golf tee.  It is non magnetic and make it easy to move the damper around for testing.  Look at the center dimple.  A golf tee no doubt, and no joke!  LOL   :D

@ Rob
Strange that your N38's are 28 mm separation and my N35's are 28.5 mm (tested both ways, no difference)

@ Clanzer
It will be interesting to see your wind down test results with the identical alloy that Al is using, compared to the aluminum. 

Also, if you could please ask AL to measure the separation from the black ends of the rotor magnets and the separation between the silver ends.  Jason can figure it out, but it would be far more accurate to have Al simply measure it for us.  This could also, make a huge difference between a working replication, and one that does not.   ;)  Thanks!!

@ Omni
Still no success finding a magnet with 30.5 mm separation.  We need to keep looking.

Cheers,

Bruce 

Offline ken_nyus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1716 on: January 25, 2008, 02:58:35 AM »
For the visual detectives out there, it seems to me that Al has painted one of the crescents on the outer part of the rotor black, from this image in the dual trace post over at Clanzer's site...

http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/alsetalokin/symmetry_p1.JPG

You can see it flash in and out in the new vid.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2008, 04:24:54 AM by ken_nyus »

Offline Jdo300

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    • The Magnetic 90 degree rule Theory
Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1717 on: January 25, 2008, 05:22:11 AM »
Guys I am trying to do tests from peoples suggestions as well as doing my own experiments, I have been on this 24/7 for over 2 weeks now and will get around to various suggestions that I am taking note off, even if not replying.

My 6061-T6 1/2 SOLID ROUND BAR arrived today, so cut a couple of bits off and quickly bodged into stator, and yep it does make latching easier :)
Not done any wind down tests yet too see the difference between the normal Alluminium dampners and using these ones.

I was looking at the base tonight and following the OC PDF http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/OC_motor_011708.pdf

I drew up another Base as I wanted a exact base with no movement to do some other tests, but it just does not look correct.
AL was saying about the 5mm spacing between the Rotor edge and the Stator outiside surround and stating that it is critical. At 4mm the air gap is too little at 6mm the Magnet looses sync.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/ocpm/confusedbase.jpg)

Cheers

Sean.


@ Jason,

Can you please comment on this? it sounds like tolerances need to be pretty exact... Several of us are about to order rotor's / bases based on the drawings that CLaNZeR refers to here... do you feel that adjustments need to be made before we place the orders?

Thanks
Geodan

Hi Geodan,

I can't really comment on that image as I am not sure how he arrived at those measurements. What I can say though is that the set of blueprints and CAD models that I made for the unit were approved by Al. I am still waiting for my base and rotor to arrive in the mail (expecting to see it either Saturday or Monday next week). But I had my model CNC'd exactly according to the drawings that I made based on Al's comments on the dimensions. In case you didn't see the posts about it, look here:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3871.msg70719.html#msg70719

@All,

After seeing Al's third video with the strobed images, I am very relieved to see that the stator magnet is rotating at a constant velocity. I have read about the many proposals to artificially reproduce the acceleration using motors. I've given some thought to this myself and it seems to me that we should look into actually locking the stator and rotor in a 4:1 gear/pully ratio. In this way, we can simply var the phasing of the system and then use a motor to spin the stator to see how that affects the power consumed by the motor. (But again, this is assuming that the stator velocity is constant as the video strongly suggests).

Also, now that I can analyze the stator magnet position with respect to the rotor. I can almost do some simulations to show the torques on the stator and rotor. But before we go there, we need to know if the rotor magnets are, in fact, off center in their slots in the rotor. I'll wait to see if Al comments on this but, if not, it would be a small matter to simply add that as a parameter in the simulation to get some preliminary results.

@Omnibnus,

Have you found out anymore information about the person who did the simulation graphs? I would be very interested in knowing what software he used to generate the results.

God Bless,
Jason O

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1718 on: January 25, 2008, 05:28:25 AM »
@ken_nyus,

Speaking of video-detectives. Is it me but it appears that the right hand side rotor magnet in the pic you show is at 90mm from the left rim and 104mm from the right rim? Left hand side rotor magnet seems pretty symmetric.

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1719 on: January 25, 2008, 05:35:57 AM »
@btentzer,

Will work more on this problem (the strength of magnets). Probably on Sunday I will have the virgin ones together with the ones I've already worked with and studied. It will be amazing if working with them a little bit affects their field as Stefan suggested. Will let you know immediately as soon as I get results. That's very important to study.

@Jdo300,

Don't have a clue although I'd like to know more about this simulation too. @btentzer mentioned it first here and someone else added that the simulation has been done by @hdeasy from Steorn forum.

Offline blue_energy

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1720 on: January 25, 2008, 06:15:49 AM »
I took the video apart.  As it turns out, the rotor is striped radially in quadrants - except that the fourth quadrant doesn't have the stripe.  This allows us to positively identify the location of the rotor in each frame.  The first frame or two happen before the strobe turns on - so I skipped them.  Then, the next 4 frames happen with the strobe turned on and I captured them.  Notice that the stator seems not to move almost at all.  But, in reality, we see that the stator has moved ~360 degrees (follow the location of the missing stripe in the rotor in the four frames - showing that it has moved 90 degrees in between each frame).  Now I'm not as sure about the reliability of my earlier statements regarding the lack of speed changes in the stator.  Can we really tell whether the stator slows down or not if each frame represents slightly more than 360 degrees of stator motion?  To tell the truth, I'm not sure what it all means anymore...


(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2302/2217491691_19f256cbcb_b.jpg)

Offline evil-doer

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1721 on: January 25, 2008, 06:26:54 AM »
I took the video apart.  As it turns out, the rotor is striped radially in quadrants - except that the fourth quadrant doesn't have the stripe. 

well.. i think youre wrong. in the time the camera has taken one picture frame the strobe has flashed 3 times. thats why you see 3 strips, its all the same strip, in 3 places.

this can easily be seen by the identical writing at the end of all 3

Offline RunningBare

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1722 on: January 25, 2008, 06:31:57 AM »
I took the video apart.  As it turns out, the rotor is striped radially in quadrants - except that the fourth quadrant doesn't have the stripe. 

well.. i think youre wrong. in the time the camera has taken one picture frame the strobe has flashed 3 times. thats why you see 3 strips, its all the same strip, in 3 places.

this can easily be seen by the identical writing at the end of all 3

Yes, there is only one strip, single frame time not quite long enough to capture a 4th strobe.

Offline geodan

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1723 on: January 25, 2008, 06:34:35 AM »
I took the video apart.  As it turns out, the rotor is striped radially in quadrants - except that the fourth quadrant doesn't have the stripe. 

well.. i think youre wrong. in the time the camera has taken one picture frame the strobe has flashed 3 times. thats why you see 3 strips, its all the same strip, in 3 places.

this can easily be seen by the identical writing at the end of all 3

that would confirm 4:1, every time that the rotor moves 1/4 turn the stator has gone around 360...

Offline blue_energy

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Re: Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??
« Reply #1724 on: January 25, 2008, 06:36:33 AM »
So - you think the rotor is moving 270 degrees between each frame?  That would make sense too.  That would also mean that the stator is revolving 1080 degrees between each frame.