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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 4321923 times)

mariuscivic

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Re: @tysb3 - Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5430 on: January 08, 2012, 10:23:09 PM »
Hi tysb3! Very thanks for these materials  :D

But if I understand well, we are still far form having any self-running generator able to provide enough power to feed any significant load?  :-\
Yes Khwartz, we are miles away from a self running wheel

konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5431 on: January 08, 2012, 10:47:16 PM »
Hi Mariusivic and all
Those solid state relays are nice to use, IF they could/will work, since they are so easy to hook up and are isolated too, so you dont need different 9v-15V power supply for each of  the gates like you do with mosfets, but PROBLEM IS, the AC type of solid state relays always have a built-in "schmidt trigger" circuit that senses the AC's sinewave's zero-line, and will only switch on the zero-line of voltage (!)  - this to prevent big flashes of voltage, which can destoryinternals, but this is what you want to CAPTURE..
So this  is totally opposite of what you want to do with coil-shorting where you want to do it at peaks, and the zero line is last place you want it to happen, since nothing will really happen there..
Also they have very high internal resistance, the solid state relays, if DC or AC, and the resistance of them kills the shorting effect too so they are just no good at all for coil shorting at peaks.
As for pulse width, you should be able to use two halleffects, and two mosfets and have them inseries, so you can adjsut pulse width by moving the halls closer, or further apart...
I make it even simpler, and use very small trigger neodimmium magnets, only 1/16th inch wide and 1/4" long (1.5mm X 5mm approx?) to trigger my halls, and line up a few to make longer pulse widht if I want it...
Also the "lenz-lug effect" is controlled also by the UF value you choose for the cap that is filled up by the coil-short...What you can do is run your generator rotor with ONLY a FWBR off the coil, or coils, into a DC cap, and try different UF values of DC capacitors to fill from the DC side of the FWBR...find a UF value that doesnt lug the motor when it fills cap from say 0V or 5V to say 10V or 20V - or whatever it is that your coils happen to make at whatever rpm etc you are running...
there will be "too big" size of cap where just filling it up, even with no resitance on it,, will lug motor - so go down in UF value until you get a good size that your coils can fill without any lugging.
Then use that cap size, or somewhere around that UFcap size, as the caps that fill up from coil shorting...what should happen is the coils will fill up about 3 times faster, and higher over time too, but the much faster-rate of charging the caps is what you want to see.

Also if all else fails, you can put an AC type cap in series on one leg of the FWBR that is across the coil being shorted....you will have to play with values of this too, as small UF like 6 uf will make cap fill slow but will negate all lenz lugging, while higher uf value like 50 ur or 100uf will not negate lenz lugging much, but will let cap fill much faster.
All other variables change when you go this route; the cap size, and the pulse width should be adjusted again if you go with the AC series cap method to cut lenz - you will find a very particular UF value that works best...both in the DC "capture" cap and the AC "seires cap on the FWBR.
ALSO, just want to requote this qoute by Romero, taken from post above:

"All coils are becoming driver coils while in operation but without external power applied to them.... this subject is closed."

OK!!! this means to me he is driving the backemf/recoil of the motor coils into his generator coils, and they all become "pulsed" by this "non-external"  DC source, and so the generator coils, all in a "long string" connected on DC side of the FWBR over each, become like one big hotdog to the rotor magnets and they are PULSED at paritcular timing  too.........this is similar to what Nolan discovered recently in his Muller machine, where he pulsed a single generator coil "facing-pair" attractive, from his power source of 22VDC, and the power from just those two generator coils could light up a 100W bulb doing this .....
 

 
 
 
 

Khwartz

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Re: @tysb3 - Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5432 on: January 09, 2012, 01:08:11 AM »
Yes Khwartz, we are miles away from a self running wheel
ok, wish that theoretical discussions could help too: http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10291-attempting-use-classic-theory-overunity-explanation.html#post174847

Any way, the principle of the device look simple, but the technics wow! I wish you all to succeed  :)

mariuscivic

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5433 on: January 09, 2012, 02:41:55 AM »
Hi Konehead and all!
Just made a new small vid about shorting the coil; its interesting when the rpm begins to rise (the core of the coil is ferite)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lCwtlzhNw&feature=youtu.be


konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5434 on: January 09, 2012, 06:32:42 AM »
Hi Mariuscivic
Nice video of the coil-shorting at peaks - thanks for doing that...
The voltage should climb much faster - It looks like you are using a single transistor to do the short - a transistor has way too much internal resistance, it will kill the effect, thats why the voltage climb is so slow...you need to try high-amperage MOSFETS and HV ones too....plus you should try TWO Mosfets, connected at their gates and their source leads, then the col-short swithicng occurs between the two "leftover" drain leads ("bidirectional mosfets" Gyula gave me this way to hook up mosfets about a years ago) - and this is best way to swithc AC in most anytning -
the coil-short rings are definelty an AC oscillation, so you need to switch it with AC switching in order to catch all of it - so right now you are doing good, but you could be making much faster voltage rise;  plus you are only catchig "half" of it, using the transistor and not bidirecitonal mosfets....look into tryin IRFP460 NPN Mosfets - there are lots for sale fairly cheap on ebay...these mosfets are rated at 500V and 20A
I bet the reason it "stops" at around 50V is an internal zerner diode inside that transistor you are using...or it could be the diodes that rectify the "rings" into the caps arent high enough in voltage....
Also you might want to try smaller caps to fill - like 200uf r 100uf to see some more dramatic voltage rise too...
That is very cool where you get the rpm increase - you discovered somethign there - I cant explain it either can only guess its this or that and I dont know what this or that could be...but mabye it has to do with the UF value of the cap? Or fact you ave transistor, and only one half of rings get swtihced so it runs into DC-rings, and this speeds up rotor? (pure guess) Mabye its fact that motor slowed in first place, so its trying to return to its perivous state, and does so, when caps fill.....lots different resistance to caps when at zero or low ovltas compared to when they are almost filled....its always changing...
Anyways great job its only going to get better...
 
 
 
 
 

konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5435 on: January 09, 2012, 06:39:46 AM »
Hi Mariuscivic again:
Here is my coil-shorting circuit again if you want to try it....I am working on not using a FWBR and instead using a "diode plug" method to extract the power, into two seperate cap banks, and the cap banks fire alternating, into load but forget about that for now...
I dont show how to knock caps into load in this circuit, jsut how to fill them up...the backemf'recoil circuit I put up yesterday is way to do it , with SW1 and SW2 as shown in that cirucit, but also the diode plug is other way...
you dont necessarily need the driver in the circuit if you want to make it easier - but its always reccomended to have a driver-chip with mosfets
 
 
 

konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5436 on: January 09, 2012, 06:52:09 AM »
Hi Mariuscivic and all
HEre is the diode-plug circuit again, ( an "invention/discovery" from Hector) that will extract power from caps into load, without affecting draw to the "primary" or lug the motor (prime mover) down in extra draw.
the sinewaves drawn above the circuits are just meant to show that one diode catches the  pos peak, and other the neg peak, and is not meant to show the relationship of sinewave shape to the positioning of the magnet to the coil...(got blasted for that last time I posted this here a few months ago)
 
Anywas future project is to incorporate the diode plug circui tinto the coil-shorting circuit...might not need bidirectional mosfet then, and would use single diodes instead of the FWBR used in the coil-shorting circuit above that feeds the cap ...
 

mariuscivic

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5437 on: January 09, 2012, 10:23:59 AM »
Hi Konehead
I will try your circuit but there is something i dont quite understand. In your drawing there is ''gate supply coil''.
Is this this coil identical to the gen coil?

mariuscivic

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5438 on: January 09, 2012, 11:42:59 AM »
this is the circuit that i used in the vid

gyulasun

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5439 on: January 09, 2012, 11:44:04 AM »
Hi Konehead
I will try your circuit but there is something i dont quite understand. In your drawing there is ''gate supply coil''.
Is this this coil identical to the gen coil?

Hi Marius,

Yes, it can be similar to a generator coil, a simple multiturn coil to pick up induced voltage from the rotor magnets to feed the Hall and MOSFET driver IC.  Of course this coil is 'dead' at startup, and can give correct power only after a certain RPM.  For temporarily tests you could use a 9V alkaline battery too as a substitute (as shown also in Doug's diagram).

Gyula

gyulasun

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5440 on: January 09, 2012, 11:51:57 AM »
this is the circuit that i used in the vid

This means you feed induced AC to the Hall and the pnp transistor.  Possible the Hall is protected inside against reverse voltage (many types have a built-in series diode in their inner supply line).   And whenever the induced voltage has positive peaks the Hall is able to trigger the transistor which shorts then the coil.  You show in the video this can also work.  (A circuit design engineer would have a face like this:  :o )

Gyula    ;)

mariuscivic

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5441 on: January 09, 2012, 02:11:50 PM »
This means you feed induced AC to the Hall and the pnp transistor.  Possible the Hall is protected inside against reverse voltage (many types have a built-in series diode in their inner supply line).   And whenever the induced voltage has positive peaks the Hall is able to trigger the transistor which shorts then the coil.  You show in the video this can also work.  (A circuit design engineer would have a face like this:  :o )

Gyula    ;)
Good point Gyula! Thanks!
I have attached a diode to protect the sensor and the transistor. I have also connected another transistor of the same type in paralel to the other one. This gave me another 2V more.
I have forget to show and to say that when i connect this ''shorting circuit'' the rotor slows down a bit; but still, the output is more than double with the shorting method

konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5442 on: January 09, 2012, 08:41:07 PM »
Hi Mariu
Its as Gyula explained, the coil on far upper left is a small aircore generator coil, also induced by rotor magnets....and this supplys the DC power to the gate and driver and halleffect, instead of the 9V battery, which is used jsut for start up.
Optimal voltage is 14 to 15V for the gate,driver, and hall, and maximum is 15V and higher than that, something will blow so it would be good idea to put a 14V voltage-regulator in circuit too, and also maybe as well a 14V zener since that small generator coil is going to make in voltage whatever the rpms are....I use jsut 9V battery for testing, and put in the generator coils when finally decide whatrpms is going to be, then wind coils for that.
 
you should really try high amperage, HV mosfets hooked up bidirectionally in you coils shorting cirucit - the votlage should rise at  unbeleivably fast rate, and unbeleiveably high voltage - if "starting out" at 20V, there should be 400V in cap after a minute or so and plan on X3 voltage near instantly when you get it to work right.
That transistor is snuffing out alot of the rings from their fairly high internal resistance I beleive.....plus I thing it has some sort of limiting diode in it too....all that said, that speed-up you got is really interesting - you might want to keep everything "as-is" and explore what is going on there - mabye you need the resistance of the transistors for the speed up I dont know.... dont abandon what you discover thorugh your tests with my advice as to what I do....
 

mariuscivic

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5443 on: January 09, 2012, 10:00:18 PM »
Hi Konehead

I must thank you for the time spent on explaining your circuit. Tomorow i'll go hunting for some mosfets and other components and i'll try to build it. Can you tell me your results with this circuit?

konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5444 on: January 10, 2012, 05:46:08 AM »
Hi Mariu
you should get X3 the voltage in cap "instantly" and X20 over say a minute as compared to what the "base" voltagte is that the magnets induce into the coil withour coil shorting...it shouldnt make draw go up to motor spinning the generator rotor -  I;ve never had a
speed up" happen however thats why I really want to see what you can do using your own intuition and ideas...
the peak-timing you seem to have under control, but you should try differnt cap sizes to be filling up,
also the output of cap to load requires lots more swtihcing, as cap needs to be disconnected from the coils when the cap hits load....wish it was as easy as put a load on it, and it speeds up.
I made something for someone two summers ago using the coil-shorting circuit that was OU - however in that thing, I put AC caps in series one of the  FWBR's  AC legs - it was around 80uf size to cut the lenz that way and didnt have the two-stage output circuit in it...you might want to look into that too, its alot easier that the two-stage circuit or diode plug...there will specific size of uf that is best compromise in cutting lenz and still letting caps fill fast...