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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3539747 times)

Offline chrisC

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #915 on: May 12, 2011, 07:49:20 PM »
Thank's WopWop. I should have introduced myself and invited everyone to my channel but I didn't want anyone to think I was drumming up viewers. Fact of the mater is I've done a lot of experiments with stator motors which are a larger version of the popular R/C airplane motor. One of them particularly became very controversial because I couldn't explain things well enough in a 10 minute video. If you are interested in seeing one of these larger motors you are certainly welcome: http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav#p/u/2/nlO8UDsc-Fc
Back to the subject. I'm sorry it takes me a long time to catch up (I'm old) I read the PDF at the beginning of the thread. It's more complete than most instructions I've seen on similar projects. It was easy to see Rom was loosing his patients a little by the end of the document. I don't blame him. The place I'm still lost is everything on the PDF shows a driver circuit and coils on the generator. At some point did Rom switch to the DC motor I see in the video? I see no way to get a radiant event out of the standard generator coils, wether the rotor is driven by the four coils on the motor or a separate motor. The generator itself is very similar to many Axial Flux generators used for wind power. Some of these use a metal flux plate behind the coils much like the washer used in Rom's motor. I can't remember ever seeing an additional magnet behind the flux plate/ring though. So I'm wondering if Rom stumbled on something just a little different that doesn't require a radiant event or collapsing Bloch wall in a core to bring a device to unity or over. Am I missing the point there also? The PDF looks like it's plenty enough to get started on something.
Thank you
John H (DadHav)

Thanks John for introducing us to your many experiments and hands-on ability on youTube. Blessed with the mind, spirit and equipment, I think you're a perfect candidate to try replicate Romero's setup. Looking forward to your participation if you have the interest - maybe Romero may have just discovered an anomaly not previously discovered?

cheers
chrisC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #915 on: May 12, 2011, 07:49:20 PM »

Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #916 on: May 12, 2011, 07:49:38 PM »
 Welcome Dadhav . the machine has 8 magnets and 9 coil pairs . 2 coil pairs form the motor . 7 pairs are generator coils . Apart from initial tuning the gen is not driven by an external motor .The gen differs from axial flux turbine gen as follows . The number of magnets is different from the number of coils . coil cores are ferrite . The magnetic circuits are open not closed . Each coil pair has its own bridge rectifier , the outputs of these bridge rectifiers being connected in parallel Feedback is regulated by a DC-DC converter.Hope this helps .

Offline DadHav

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #917 on: May 12, 2011, 07:52:47 PM »
Thanks e2. I'm ready to prototype a hybrid R/C aero motor then I'll be clear to try something else. God gave two eyes, two ears and a big brain but we don't use that part very much. I'll do some watching, listening and thinking for a while. Who knows. Maybe I'll end up being a Hero member some day.
Thank you.
John H (DadHav)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #917 on: May 12, 2011, 07:52:47 PM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #918 on: May 12, 2011, 08:06:42 PM »
[...]
Who knows. Maybe I'll end up being a Hero member some day.
Thank you.
John H (DadHav)

welcome John,

as i'm sure you're well aware,  you don't need a lot of stars, in the army, to be a hero!  ;)

that's an impressive and interesting video (much like your lab!)

thanks for sharing - hope you find something to interest you here


chrisC
Romero was quick to point out that he was just replicating earlier work by Bill Muller (and possibly other replicators)

that's not to detract from what he achieved - that just speaks to the sort of person he was

whoever kicked it all off - let's hope that you're right about it being a previously unknown (or unrecognised) effect

all the best guys
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Offline i_ron

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #919 on: May 12, 2011, 08:23:59 PM »
.

what R was experiencing was 'runaway' - this is another v. strong indicator for OU




/url]


THE SMOKING GUN

"what Romero was experiencing was 'runaway' - this is another v. strong indicator for OU"

To the point that his coils started to melt!

Thanks nul-points... so many of us missed that.

Ron

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #919 on: May 12, 2011, 08:23:59 PM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #920 on: May 12, 2011, 08:49:48 PM »
[...]
Thanks nul-points... so many of us missed that.

Ron

i don't think people missed it

when i said "not much was made of it" it was because we then saw Romero's video of the self-run and all other evidence at that time was subsiduary

however, we've since been subjected to a succession of people insisting that there were batteries hidden in Romero's underpants

hence my re-iteration of something else Romero reported early on which supports the view that this wasn't a fake - and which hasn't been pointed out (AFAIK) to all the kind souls who came to cheer at Romero's departure

Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #921 on: May 12, 2011, 08:56:56 PM »
At some stage during initial testing you will need to drive this with an external motor . It is also quite possible that if you can find an efficient enough drive motor , Looping will be possible . If it is just for testing , transmission losses are not important and a belt drive may suffice .This has the advantage of allowing different speed ratios . Small DC motors can be efficient , but in some applications efficiency has been sacrificed to reduce initial costs . Brushed DC permanent magnet motors are capable of efficiencies between75 and 80% . Brushless DC motors can Be 80 to90% efficient and above , but at the cost of added complexity and expense .They are effectively a 3 phase motor , and have to include a module to covert DC to 3 phase AC .Apparently they can be found inCD and CD Rom drives , some office fans ,laser printers and photo copiers . If you try to obtain them from scrap be sure to get the module as well . Main source -The WIKIpedia article entitled Electric Motor .
@I-ron . Caution . Smoking can seriously damage your drive coils !

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #921 on: May 12, 2011, 08:56:56 PM »
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Offline starcruiser

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #922 on: May 12, 2011, 09:07:23 PM »
I play with model aircraft and use similar motors to the Turnigy series. the ESC or Electronic Speed Controller, can be found for less than $50 usd. cost is dependent on the current rating of the ESC. I can locate some at hobbyking.com for like $30, look there for some drives and motors (brushed and brushless) if you are interested.

Most of these brushless motors are really efficient 80+ % and can be run on battery voltages of <4v to over 50v. they usually link them to lithium polymer (LIPO) batteries due to their small footprint and high current sourcing abilities.

Offline DadHav

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #923 on: May 12, 2011, 09:16:43 PM »
Guys. I can be some help here. It is easy and less expensive than you think to drive an R/C airplane motor or any other three phase motor of that type. You may have to deal with China if you want the best prices. If you check a site like HobbyCity you can find hudreds of motors, and speed controls. Yes, they are three phase and require the speed control. Normally the speed control needs to plug into a receiver for drive control, but you can buy what is called a servo tester for less than $10 and drive the speed control right from that. I have an 80 amp speed control that I only paid $17 for but you can buy something like 20 amp controls for again $10. I'd be surprised if you if you couldnt find a complete setupf for $40-50. Wait. maybe that's to expensive. If you want to see how the setup works without being in an airlplane you can see it on this video. http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav#p/u/1/e0q8DDtjvMY
Hope this might help
John H (DadHav)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #923 on: May 12, 2011, 09:16:43 PM »
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Offline DadHav

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #924 on: May 12, 2011, 09:30:27 PM »
I play with model aircraft and use similar motors to the Turnigy series. the ESC or Electronic Speed Controller, can be found for less than $50 usd. cost is dependent on the current rating of the ESC. I can locate some at hobbyking.com for like $30, look there for some drives and motors (brushed and brushless) if you are interested.

Most of these brushless motors are really efficient 80+ % and can be run on battery voltages of <4v to over 50v. they usually link them to lithium polymer (LIPO) batteries due to their small footprint and high current sourcing abilities.

Sorry Star. Your post must have went up while I was writing mine. I wouldn't have barged in if I saw yours first. Nice of you to help out if people are interested. You might have to take a close look at the KV rating of the motor right? It looked like Rom's motor wasn't running real high RPM's. Does anyone know about what range the target would be?
John

Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #925 on: May 12, 2011, 09:37:22 PM »
[...]
If you want to see how the setup works without being in an airlplane you can see it on this video. http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav#p/u/1/e0q8DDtjvMY
Hope this might help
John H (DadHav)

blimey - you don't want to be the wrong end of the runway, with one of those puppys approaching!!

wrt Romero's device, iirc someone mentioned in the region of 3000rpm

hth

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #925 on: May 12, 2011, 09:37:22 PM »
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Offline libra_spirit

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #926 on: May 12, 2011, 09:38:53 PM »
I have only read through about 1/3 of these posts, but I did not see anyone studying the vibrational characteristics of this motor/generator.

9 stator coils   8 magnets on the rotor

One rotation will produce

Coil pulses 8

Magnet pulses 9

Total pulses 72

At 5000 RPM which is 83.3 Hz, there will be a frequency of 6000 Hz generated on the rotor. Half the magnets will be retarding and half will be pulling and two will be neutral.

Each coil will receive 8 pulses, and each magnet will receive 9 pulses per rotation.

Coil pulse frequency will be 666.6 Hz

Magnet pulse frequency 750 Hz

The strong magnetic field will be moving in the reverse direction of the rotor at 8 times the RPM. It will also be moving along the coils at 9x the rpm, in the reverse direction of the rotors motion.

Are my numbers correct?

Dave L




Offline phoneboy

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #927 on: May 12, 2011, 09:56:29 PM »
Just a thought regarding the posts stating the runaway problem, didn't Muller also work on a thermo electric gen? Some of the replicators were speaking of using hollow ferrite bullets, if the bullets work, you could loop water or oil through them to cool the coils and at worst just use the heat for heating??

Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #928 on: May 12, 2011, 09:57:53 PM »
I have only read through about 1/3 of these posts, but I did not see anyone studying the vibrational characteristics of this motor/generator.
[...]
Are my numbers correct?

Dave L

hi Dave

as one Libra to another, some of us have been attempting to get to grips with this, although i have to 'fess up and say that my contribution to the off-thread discussions has been with my hands over my eyes, under a paper bag over my head

however, one of the more intellectually gifted members of the team had started on the long and (coil) winding road of explaining (to me, at least) that there was even such a thing as a 'rotating magnetic field'

he did mention that 8X rpm ratio but shortly afterwards my other brain cell overheated and i started dreaming of a cold beer, i believe

tell us more about these things please

np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Offline DadHav

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #929 on: May 12, 2011, 10:01:01 PM »
I have only read through about 1/3 of these posts, but I did not see anyone studying the vibrational characteristics of this motor/generator.

9 stator coils   8 magnets on the rotor

One rotation will produce

Coil pulses 8

Magnet pulses 9

Total pulses 72

At 5000 RPM which is 83.3 Hz, there will be a frequency of 6000 Hz generated on the rotor. Half the magnets will be retarding and half will be pulling and two will be neutral.

Each coil will receive 8 pulses, and each magnet will receive 9 pulses per rotation.

Coil pulse frequency will be 666.6 Hz

Magnet pulse frequency 750 Hz

The strong magnetic field will be moving in the reverse direction of the rotor at 8 times the RPM. It will also be moving along the coils at 9x the rpm, in the reverse direction of the rotors motion.

Are my numbers correct?

Dave L

72 is correct I think and coralates directly to the number or cogs per revelution. With 10 magnets you would have 90, but is that good or bad?

 

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