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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3717131 times)

Offline k4zep

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #540 on: May 09, 2011, 10:04:53 PM »
hi again

yes, at 09:38m into the pre-self-running video you can clearly see mags on the lower deck in a low view thro' the side of the rig

hope this helps
np

[EDIT ** apologies for the duplicated answer, Ben - our posts clashed ** ]
 

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com


Hi NP,

No problem, happened to me too.  I seemed to have missed where Romoro gave the inductance.  Has he ever said the resistance?  I'm assuming about 6 ohms per coil based on current in motor side of the coils X 2 in series.

Ben K4ZEP

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #540 on: May 09, 2011, 10:04:53 PM »

Offline bourne

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #541 on: May 09, 2011, 10:11:21 PM »
@all. I previously asked Romero if he had tried stationary magnets on the coils down below [lower deck] He is likely under too much pressure to answer me . HE MUST HAVE TRIED THIS , AS OTHERWISE , THE LOWER COILS COULD BE DOING LITTLE EXCEPT WASTE ENERGY . Has he discussed this with anyone else please ?

@neptune

page 5 reply66 from RomeroUK, 2nd picture shows magnets and iron washers on the 'lower deck' coils.


@collapsingfield

Nice simulations, it would be good to see that in 3D. A single rotor magnet sliding through the torus of fields created by the upper and lower magnet/core combinations.

I am finding the magnetic 'tuning' of this easier and easier to understand. I can't wait to get something together to tinker with.


Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #542 on: May 09, 2011, 10:14:35 PM »

Hi NP,

No problem, happened to me too.  I seemed to have missed where Romoro gave the inductance.  Has he ever said the resistance?  I'm assuming about 6 ohms per coil based on current in motor side of the coils X 2 in series.

Ben K4ZEP

yeah, things are moving so fast round here you're afraid to blink  :)

i haven't seen Romero quote a resistance yet but this is his comment bout the inductance:

"I had measured the inductance and it is 1.203mH plus and minus, not all coils are exact value but with the magnets on the rotor being close to them that might not be exact."

cheers

np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #542 on: May 09, 2011, 10:14:35 PM »
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Offline Thaelin

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #543 on: May 09, 2011, 10:23:20 PM »
Hi Romero:
   Well, I will be hounding on your back door shortly. I was out today and found 2 16"X5/8" plywood rounds and a 12"X3/4 press board round. This saved me all the time to make them. I have only now to drill the coil mount holes and the magnet holes. For mounting I used two 6" alu cast pulleys and a 1/2" stainless shaft into two precision bearings. I will use another pulley outside to mount the hall magnets to for the motor part. Coils next on 3/4" ferrite slugs using #30 wire that I have.
   Just couldn't resist this as I had most all the parts already. Transistors will be IRFZ40 power NMOS fets since I have a bunch. Switch mode regulator soon as I can run one down.

All in all, not much left to get.

thay
 
Edit:  I see that wally mart has the regulators so that done too.. thanks guys

I hope someone here is going to replicate it soon and have all this questions addressed to him.

To all:
Don't ask me to do more videos, and measure every inch of it, this is taking all my time, instead of working and doing something productive.
I know skycollection - jorge sent me an email earlier but was deleted.
If you see this message please send it again, I would answer to you.

Best regards,
Romero
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 10:45:31 PM by Thaelin »

Offline toranarod

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #544 on: May 09, 2011, 10:58:00 PM »
I cannot find reference to the gape between the magnets and the coils?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #544 on: May 09, 2011, 10:58:00 PM »
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Offline excessAlex

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #545 on: May 09, 2011, 11:00:59 PM »
Hello everyone, I'm one another (yet another) new user in this thread :D

many thanks to RomeroUK for his work and for sharing valuable information, thank you all for your cooperation, I follow in silence from now on.

this can be useful in order to build suitable cores?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZE-pIXipm4

There are many sites where you can buy powder for each type of requirement ( I do not mean drugs! :D) .. just look around with google

Alex ;D

Offline LtBolo

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #546 on: May 09, 2011, 11:02:59 PM »
@all. I previously asked Romero if he had tried stationary magnets on the coils down below [lower deck] He is likely under too much pressure to answer me . HE MUST HAVE TRIED THIS , AS OTHERWISE , THE LOWER COILS COULD BE DOING LITTLE EXCEPT WASTE ENERGY . Has he discussed this with anyone else please ?

Even if he did not have the lower magnet(s), the lower coils would still not be wasting energy, they would simply not be as efficient. The stator magnets are simply establishing a magnetic bias, so when the rotor magnet comes through, you get the best possible rotation of the magnetic field in the coil.

I don't think Muller's original implementation used those magnets; he reversed every other rotor magnet to produce the same result. It is well possible to make it work that way I'm sure, it may simply be easier to get it right doing it the way RomeroUK did it. The challenge to Muller's approach would likely be to get the rotor magnet's field to push all the way up the stator coil, rather than wrapping back to the next rotor magnet. Not hard, but you have to plan for it. Failure to do so would result in a serious reduction in output performance and project failure.

Looking forward to the first wave of replicators! We'd love to jump in with our own, after you guys have paved the way. ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #546 on: May 09, 2011, 11:02:59 PM »
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Offline LtBolo

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #547 on: May 09, 2011, 11:13:25 PM »
Was thinking a little about the drive circuit. Don't know for sure, but this design may give a maximum theoretical output of 200%. I saw some suggestion to that effect in some of Muller's stuff, and that appears to be where RomeroUK is once losses are accounted for. In order to get the output power levels to meaningful levels then, the drive levels are going to have to be raised as the output load is increased. Probably only two good ways to do that: 1) increase drive voltage, and/or 2) increase drive pulse width.

This looks like a super candidate for a micro-controller, which might also simplify the drive pulse management. Rather than hall effect sensors and trigger magnets, it might make sense to move to an encoder and quadrature input. With sufficient encoder resolution, you could very accurately control drive pulses to increase power. Could also use the micro to control supply voltage, allowing the supply voltage to increase when you needed more output.

Yeah, that's raising the level of difficultly to a 9.9...but I am licking my chops to jump into that. :D

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #548 on: May 09, 2011, 11:15:56 PM »
Well, maybe it is better to put all outputs coils then in series
for higher voltage outputs and only have a normal
silicon diode bridge rectifier then at the end.
Then you could also use a DC to DC converter with high efficiency to transform
the violtage down again.
This way you will only loose power in the ONE bridge rectifier and not
in all rectifiers... This could also save a lot of wasted power in the circuit
and it is cheaper as you don´t need so many rectifiers....
If you make the coils much bigger also a higher current should be possible at
the higher series voltage.

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan,

In case the output coils are connected in series, the output current flows through all the coils all the time and this could cause a much different situation with respect to the present case where each output coil is 'isolated' from each other by the FWBs so the load current cannot flow through all of them all the time: This can be an benefit inherently utilized in the present setup. 

Would be good to know Romero's understanding on this, especially if he already tested the output coils in series connection.  I guess he did  not choose the trouble of using as many diode bridges as the number of output coils without good reason.

IF your series coil suggestion does not cause any negative effect on the output power, then I do agree with it. Even the relatively cheap PC supply 'boxes' could be used for accepting the much higher AC output voltage for the series coils and would convert it down the DC 12V, 5V etc.

rgds, Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #548 on: May 09, 2011, 11:15:56 PM »
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Offline bourne

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #549 on: May 09, 2011, 11:30:23 PM »
I cannot find reference to the gap between the magnets and the coils?

I think 3mm-4mm has been mentioned. But this is the magnetic tuning gap along with the gap between core and fixed magnets.
all these gaps should be adjusted to allow magnetic interaction without being over-powering and locking the rotor down to 1 particular position.

Like Romerouk said, tune it then go back and tune it again, and keep tuning it until it is perfect.

Fine pitch threaded rods are a must for easy tuning IMO.

I hope this helps


Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #550 on: May 09, 2011, 11:32:13 PM »
Working principle in my mind is this:

When signal A is modulated with signal B one can load the signal B without loading the signal A or vice versa.

All it takes is low or high pass filer. I have done this with coil shorting setup - loading the system with zero reflection on input. In coil shorting A is low freq and B is high freq. And B is extracted using high pass filter w/o loading the signal A (input).

Now in this case signal A is signals from single coils (freq is 9*rpm), and signal B is interference picture from all the coils combined (freq is 1*rpm). There forms a rotating wavefront with same frequency as device rpm. So the A is high freq and B is low freq. Low pass filter is applied and signal is loaded w/o reflection on the signal A (input).

Low pass filter is that huge cap romerouk is using.

PS. F-finger to tech suppression "community" ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #550 on: May 09, 2011, 11:32:13 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #551 on: May 09, 2011, 11:32:54 PM »
They cannot be in series, as the gen coils are not all generating 1 polarity at the same time.   Wont work.  ;]

Mags

Offline toranarod

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #552 on: May 09, 2011, 11:41:28 PM »
Was thinking a little about the drive circuit. Don't know for sure, but this design may give a maximum theoretical output of 200%. I saw some suggestion to that effect in some of Muller's stuff, and that appears to be where RomeroUK is once losses are accounted for. In order to get the output power levels to meaningful levels then, the drive levels are going to have to be raised as the output load is increased. Probably only two good ways to do that: 1) increase drive voltage, and/or 2) increase drive pulse width.

This looks like a super candidate for a micro-controller, which might also simplify the drive pulse management. Rather than hall effect sensors and trigger magnets, it might make sense to move to an encoder and quadrature input. With sufficient encoder resolution, you could very accurately control drive pulses to increase power. Could also use the micro to control supply voltage, allowing the supply voltage to increase when you needed more output.

Yeah, that's raising the level of difficultly to a 9.9...but I am licking my chops to jump into that. :D

I developed this micro controller for my pulse motors and I am going to use it for this one too. 


Offline Ren

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #553 on: May 09, 2011, 11:47:44 PM »
Good stuff guys.

Romero, love your work. Look forward to tinkering with a similar setup soon.

Forgive me if this has been asked before, but have you tried bridge rectifiers over your drive circuits, instead of the diode back to source?


Thanks for all your info.

Regards

Offline LtBolo

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #554 on: May 09, 2011, 11:47:53 PM »
I developed this micro controller for my pulse motors and I am going to use it for this one too.

PIC? That should do nicely.

By bringing the Hall effect sensor into a discrete input on the PIC, you can use it as a simple reference and synthesize the actual drive pulses anywhere you want to put them. That should give you a big advantage when tuning.

 

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