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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3564316 times)

Offline chrisC

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #450 on: May 09, 2011, 06:47:17 AM »
I am about to get another rotor manufactured. as you know the cost is in the tooling so I pay for one is expensive.
so i can have more than one made. If any body is interested please say as I will just get them to do a few more. you will get them for the cost of what they cost me. and  postage.

this is for a rotor the dimensions are on the drawing

Hi toranarod.

If you're in the U.S, I will be interested in your rotor build. Does it come with the bearings & rod too? Please let us know what the set up costs. Thanks.

chrisC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #450 on: May 09, 2011, 06:47:17 AM »

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #451 on: May 09, 2011, 07:17:20 AM »
Hi e2matrix ,thanks for the reply.
I tested one from a previous joule thief and it doesn't have enough turns, though it seems to repel or attract my neos fairly well.
Once i get the rotor finished up, I'm gong to pick up some more of these and start winding them, in the meantime i'll try the steel bolt version.
peace love light
tyson

Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #452 on: May 09, 2011, 07:33:15 AM »
Several of our guru's have mentioned using Schottky diodes.  I think that's an excellent idea and I can't see how it would effect anything in a bad way (99% sure).  Can anyone recommend a particular number that would work well in this replication?  Most are cheap enough that even using all Schottky's to make FWBR's should not add that much to the cost but what model number might be best here?

the gurus appear to have left the building temporarily  :)

this is the next highest amperage rating i could find in Farnell at a first pass, above Romero's existing level of current draw:

(SB1240: 12A,  40V rev,  0.45V fwd)
http://uk.farnell.com/semikron/sb1240/diode-schottky-12a-40v-axial/dp/1776353

i would have thought that a 6A (30V rev, 0.45V fwd) rating would be sufficient for a system operating at around 50Watt (motor + load), if you can find some in your usual suppliers

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #452 on: May 09, 2011, 07:33:15 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sigis

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #453 on: May 09, 2011, 07:37:58 AM »
Hi,
there is some misunderstanding about rotor construction: according information in forum rotor thickness is 12mm, and magnets are 10mm high, But according pictures presented Romero it looks that magnet high is more then 12mm? Can somebody explain that?

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #454 on: May 09, 2011, 08:44:00 AM »
the gurus appear to have left the building temporarily  :)

this is the next highest amperage rating i could find in Farnell at a first pass, above Romero's existing level of current draw:

(SB1240: 12A,  40V rev,  0.45V fwd)
http://uk.farnell.com/semikron/sb1240/diode-schottky-12a-40v-axial/dp/1776353

i would have thought that a 6A (30V rev, 0.45V fwd) rating would be sufficient for a system operating at around 50Watt (motor + load), if you can find some in your usual suppliers

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
Well actually you are one of the guru's I was hoping might answer so I guess they haven't all left :)   Thanks so much for the info! 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #454 on: May 09, 2011, 08:44:00 AM »
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #455 on: May 09, 2011, 08:44:08 AM »
Hi Romero.

I've noticed from the schematic of your circuit that you are not directly taking advantage
of the collapsing magnetic field of your drive coils when thay are in off mode.

Now there may be a good reason for this, as the introduction of feedback diodes to collect power
from the drive coils during the collapsing field event, may significantly alter the tuning of the machine. ??

But, then again, maybe you haven't tried this ??
If you have'nt already tried this, then perhaps you'd like to.

If your current operating duty cycle (on time) is lower than 30 %, then there is a very high probability that adding feedback diodes and a battery to collect the CEMF may also result in an increase in total motor torque - free of charge. This in turn may increase your total output from the gen coils?

It's an easy experiment for you to try, as it requires no tricky changes to any aspect of your current build.

Just a couple of diodes and a battery hooked up the way I've shown in a modified version of your schematic attached below ..... Perhaps you've already tried this.?

I am very curious to know how this slight addition will affect your setup. Thanks in advance if
you choose to experiment and report on the result. Understanding, if not.

Cheers from Hoptoad ..... KneeDeep

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #456 on: May 09, 2011, 09:08:21 AM »
the gurus appear to have left the building temporarily  :)

this is the next highest amperage rating i could find in Farnell at a first pass, above Romero's existing level of current draw:

(SB1240: 12A,  40V rev,  0.45V fwd)
http://uk.farnell.com/semikron/sb1240/diode-schottky-12a-40v-axial/dp/1776353

i would have thought that a 6A (30V rev, 0.45V fwd) rating would be sufficient for a system operating at around 50Watt (motor + load), if you can find some in your usual suppliers

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
Now that I think about the current rating suggested I'm wondering if you knew I was planning these for each coil (using 4 as FWBR) as the current rating seems higher than what I would have imagined.  But I'm mostly guessing and I know you understand this better but my plan for these is not at the output of all coils just for each one.  Knowing that RomeroUK's 1N4007's are only rated 1.0 amp does it sound right to need 12 amp?  Although I'm not sure what his FWBR's current rating was he paralled these on so .... I'm lost in the Amperage jungle.  lol

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #456 on: May 09, 2011, 09:08:21 AM »
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Offline khabe

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #457 on: May 09, 2011, 09:20:43 AM »
I don't understand why people are finding difficult to understand the type of wire I used.
I posted the link to my source of wires many times before.
Below is the source I bought the wire from, and the reference too:

http://wires.co.uk/acatalog/st_wire.html

7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu = 0.875mm
Ref: ST01250007-500

7 X 0.125MM SOLDERABLE STRAND EN.Cu it  IS NEVER the same like 0.875mm wire !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Square area = 3.14 * r2
0.875 mm wire  ->  0.6      mm2
0.125mm wire   ->  0.0122 mm2

To handle at least near the same amperage you neerd to use at least 47 strands,
Perhaps now you will tell us that you do not need 25A max amperage what 0.875mm wire is able in normal motor ... (where just few meters of wire used per phase).

Then lets think about resistivity:

0.875 mm wire  ->   3 ohm per 100m
0.125mm wire   -> 136 ohm per 100m

If you do not like to think about wire square area, then about resistivity you must to think earnestly,


cheers,
khabe


« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 09:46:38 AM by khabe »

Offline yssuraxu_697

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #458 on: May 09, 2011, 09:29:19 AM »
in the meantime i'll try the steel bolt version.

Steel bolt is basically one phat shorted turn. Do not waste time...

Dunno about EMI supression beads. In general they have pretty horrible hysteresis curve and low saturation point. Also large part of the flux will loop thru hole and not cross windings (?). But in terms of eddy currents they should be better.

One possible semi-cheap source of ferrite would be separately sold I parts of the EI transformer cores. They still have low saturation but there are ones with at least good hysteresis curve. Look for ones meant for flyback transformers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #458 on: May 09, 2011, 09:29:19 AM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #459 on: May 09, 2011, 09:33:07 AM »
I believe someone said they were having trouble finding the DC-DC converter.  this one is 3 amp and while it has the name 'Vanson'  it looks the same and is on sale from Maplin for Euro buyers: Universal 3A DC Power Supply Was £21.99 Save £9.00 only £12.99
On promotion until 17/05/2011   here:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/universal-3a-dc-power-supply-228639

Offline bolt

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #460 on: May 09, 2011, 09:33:43 AM »
Either you are replicating OR you are up-scaling and using bigger better coils and magnets. In which case get the best Schottky diodes you can afford. Excess amps now wont go a miss later. With 10A diodes in a bridge you got like an easy 50w per coil with 10 very large generator coils collectively 500w system.

Is this what you are building? :)

Also one other point. Once you built this some of you will want to use coil shorting to give an extreme boost of power and volts. You get 300-400v when the coil is shorted. If you plan on doing this you need like 500v diodes. At 350v and 0.5 amp you now have 175 watt per coil = 1.7Kw system. No its not too far fetched the wind power guys make these muller style systems at that power rating.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #460 on: May 09, 2011, 09:33:43 AM »
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #461 on: May 09, 2011, 09:33:55 AM »
Now that I think about the current rating suggested I'm wondering if you knew I was planning these for each coil (using 4 as FWBR) as the current rating seems higher than what I would have imagined.  But I'm mostly guessing and I know you understand this better but my plan for these is not at the output of all coils just for each one.  Knowing that RomeroUK's 1N4007's are only rated 1.0 amp does it sound right to need 12 amp?  Although I'm not sure what his FWBR's current rating was he paralled these on so .... I'm lost in the Amperage jungle.  lol

Most of the time the old adage, bigger is better is true LOL.

After all, a higher current rated diode will withstand a greater current than a lower one and therefore is less likely to be damaged, when and if, a large transient current spike occurs during operation.

The main difference in a diode's performance in a given circuit is not so much their power rating (if it is not exceeded), but their forward voltage threshold.

The forward voltage threshold will determine the power loss within the diode. The higher the threshold the greater the loss.

To give an (approximate values) example:

A. Silicon power diode: = .6 V forward voltage = .6 V  multiplied by X amount current = .6X power loss
B. Germanium power diode: = .4 V forward voltage = .4 V  multiplied by X amount current = .4X power loss


Cheers

Offline nul-points

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    • Doc Ringwood's Free Energy blog
Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #462 on: May 09, 2011, 09:37:01 AM »
Now that I think about the current rating suggested I'm wondering if you knew I was planning these for each coil (using 4 as FWBR) as the current rating seems higher than what I would have imagined.
[...]

hi e2m

i'm no guru here, sadly!

as mentioned above, this part was the nearest one i could find at Farnell at the moment, with a current rating  above the sort of current being handled in Romero's circuit

i mentioned looking for a lower rating (eg. 6A) in your usual suppliers (eg., Digikey, perhaps, in the US?) which should still give plenty safety margin

my very approximate estimate of Romero's system was that it's operating around the 50 Watt level (including motor + spare capacity for load)

it might appear that it's possible just to divide the current rating between the generator coils

whilst it's true that there is overlap between coil outputs, each coil could be capable of providing several amps at full load

at the moment we don't have too much detail of the performance data for the system

a couple of members have suggested that some more comprehensive load tests be carried out to 'characterise' the device's generating capacity

until we have more info, i'd suggest the minimum current rating needs to be in the region of at least 5-6A so that the diodes aren't being operated near their limit

hope this helps
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 02:17:17 PM by nul-points »

Offline Mem

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #463 on: May 09, 2011, 09:37:47 AM »
Hi Romero.

I've noticed from the schematic of your circuit that you are not directly taking advantage
of the collapsing magnetic field of your drive coils when thay are in off mode.

Now there may be a good reason for this, as the introduction of feedback diodes to collect power
from the drive coils during the collapsing field event, may significantly alter the tuning of the machine. ??

But, then again, maybe you haven't tried this ??
If you have'nt already tried this, then perhaps you'd like to.

If your current operating duty cycle (on time) is lower than 30 %, then there is a very high probability that adding feedback diodes and a battery to collect the CEMF may also result in an increase in total motor torque - free of charge. This in turn may increase your total output from the gen coils?

It's an easy experiment for you to try, as it requires no tricky changes to any aspect of your current build.

Just a couple of diodes and a battery hooked up the way I've shown in a modified version of your schematic attached below ..... Perhaps you've already tried this.?

I am very curious to know how this slight addition will affect your setup. Thanks in advance if
you choose to experiment and report on the result. Understanding, if not.

Cheers from Hoptoad ..... KneeDeep

Your idea is good. However, these is no battery in the circuit so why bother charging a battery?  But, yes collecting the  back emf from driver transistors can cool the off. It's may be an optional idea that can be useful.

Offline toranarod

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #464 on: May 09, 2011, 09:43:22 AM »
while we are on the subject of coils
I have a come up with this. here is a 15 mm litz wire coil on a ferrite former.
what is the inductance of the coils in RomeroUK motor? any body have even a close idea?


 

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