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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3647125 times)

Offline energia9

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #375 on: May 08, 2011, 06:28:26 PM »
Well Done! Keep the nice work up! this is a new age for sure, The age of no lies start from here RIGHT NOW!!!!  SCREW THE GOVERNMENT!!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #375 on: May 08, 2011, 06:28:26 PM »

Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #376 on: May 08, 2011, 06:31:23 PM »
SCREW THE GOVERNMENT!!

LOL

...clockwise ...or anticlockwise?  ;)
 

Offline poynt99

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #377 on: May 08, 2011, 06:36:29 PM »
NP,

For constant power to a given load, post DC-DC works best.

But I agree, for the best efficiency of power transfer to the load, it should be placed pre DC-DC, as long as the load can handle the worst-case power surge possible going into it.

.99

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #377 on: May 08, 2011, 06:36:29 PM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #378 on: May 08, 2011, 06:45:36 PM »
NP,

For constant power to a given load, post DC-DC works best.

But I agree, for the best efficiency of power transfer to the load, it should be placed pre DC-DC, as long as the load can handle the worst-case power surge possible going into it.

.99

yep, i agree completely

in the device as shown, any 'power surges' are most likely to come from instability in the input drive to the coils

since we're using a DC-DC convertor to prevent instability in the drive 'motor' we are significantly reducing the chances of power surges to the load

therefore i believe that in this case we can re-position the load before the converter -and improve the COP!

hopefully i've given a fair summary of the situation

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Offline khabe

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #379 on: May 08, 2011, 06:53:12 PM »
Yeah, this kind of experiments I like,
Especially when well done mechanics, no cheesy and krooked shafts, no flapping and fluttering rotors.
When you like to use smaller bearings for less friction then you need to turn shaft ends, where bearings are, for this smaller diameter,  shaft itself must to be adequate for large rotor.
Some comments about posts I did read:
Pole/slot (coils) combination is far not Muller´s invention, for motor builders  this is well known trick to reduce cogging torque, this principle is known more than 20 years, mostly for 3-phase motors, but also for one phase generators.
I wonder  you are fearfully stucked on  9 coil / 8 magnets arrangement … you can use any combination like  - 9/10, 11/10, 11/12 … 19/18, 19/20 … 25/24, 25/26 … 39/38, 39/40 … 79/80 … 111/112 – what ever ...

Litz wire (stranded enamelled copper) …  like for every wire -  the cross are is decisive,
When Litz wire then sum of kross areas of all strands.
I added  chart (Hr. Dr. Ralph Okon, www.powercroco.de)  you can find diameter of wire, cross area, … and maximun current for this wire, This  is for „normal motor” builders  ;) , most of all for RC motors, where not so much turns (read it: wire lenght) and where is very good air cooling because huge air flow from propeller ... As I see you have 300 turns ... oh dear, you must to use bit thicker wire as on this chart.
About Litz (stranded wire) there have been long time discussion about by motor builders, many good motor builders does not like it, but myself I do, I use near everywhere Litz because lower losses and because easier to wind. In principle Litz or multistranded wire  is strongly necessary only when air-cap motors(generators) where magnets direct act to WIRE, where no iron core - there moving magnet causes huge Eddy losses when thick wire  :o (maximum diameter of wire for air-cap motors(generators) where no detectable eddy losses is 0.2mm).
You have iron core machine, so ... Litz is good but not by all means necessary.

Im not here to discuss about works this Muller as real OU or not ...
There is one more similar  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70E0Q_pCB-4&feature=related
this one yopu do not like ?  ::)

cheers,
khabe

« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 07:17:24 PM by khabe »

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #379 on: May 08, 2011, 06:53:12 PM »
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Offline k4zep

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #380 on: May 08, 2011, 06:55:21 PM »
Hi Romerouk,

Just a curiosity how much power you actually have available there.  You can't load down your switcher power supply/regulator due to its current capabilities, but you could put a load across the Cap ahead of the supply (I think you mentioned a 50 watt load at one time)  and keep loading it down till you had it down to about 6-7 volts at 12VDC into the motor from the switcher and it would show how much power is really available!  I suspect more than you think.  Monitor motor current, load current ahead of cap and system voltage at cap and motor, load it till the voltage at cap starts falling off, if that is possible.  Just a suggestion but don't burn out your gen. coils or bridge diodes.

Working like heck, getting parts that I don't have ordered, going through my junk box looking for a good quiet low power drive motor, of course, pulse driver is always an option but as you stated, probably not needed.  I'm a slow builder, think a lot, doodle a lot on paper, put everything I see into it, then build.  Again congratulations again for giving the world of OU builders something to really think about.

There are some great builders out there, I look forward to their efforts!!!!!

Just looked at my post and above and realized 3-4 people are thinking the same thing........this list is moving FAST!

Ben K4ZEP

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #381 on: May 08, 2011, 07:05:04 PM »
You can also build your own DC to DC regulator.
LM338 can handle 5 Ampere if on a heat sink.

Look at the LM338 data sheet. There are application examples
for 10 Ampere and 15 Ampere regulators also.

GL.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #381 on: May 08, 2011, 07:05:04 PM »
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Offline poynt99

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #382 on: May 08, 2011, 07:05:54 PM »
I agree with Ben.

A comprehensive load test would determine what it's capable of. If the output is capable of double or triple the input power, replication could be greatly simplified.

Driven with a relatively-efficient DC motor, all the stator coils could be dedicated as output coils, and their combined outputs looped back to the drive motor, either directly, or through some type of regulator such as a DC-DC converter.

.99

Offline poynt99

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #383 on: May 08, 2011, 07:19:59 PM »
You can also build your own DC to DC regulator.
LM338 can handle 5 Ampere if on a heat sink.

GL.

HI GL.

As this is a linear regulator, it can become quite inefficient if the input voltage exceeds the output voltage by a degree.

Although a linear regulator is an option, a much better one is probably to stay with a switching DC-DC converter, as the efficiency is relatively constant over the entire output voltage range. I believe the Maplin converter Romero is using is in fact a SMPS (switched-mode power supply, "buck-mode") variety. P/N: SDR-3000 by VANSON.

.99

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #383 on: May 08, 2011, 07:19:59 PM »
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Offline Aedini

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #384 on: May 08, 2011, 07:21:08 PM »
Hi Romero:
    I really want to know you are using the DC - DC converter is what the internal structure?
    -------------------------------------------------------
    I am very worried about hidden inside a battery.
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Very much hope that you can use facts to eliminate my doubts.

    If you have offended, please forgive, because so far no one has successfully copied.

 

Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #385 on: May 08, 2011, 07:24:59 PM »
hi all

please excuse if this is a DFQ**

(i've just looked thro' thread again and can't see this addressed previously, but with *my* eyesight you never know!)

in GL's diag, ok'd by Romero, the load (lamp) is shown as AFTER the DC-DC Converter

surely, it should be BEFORE the converter? (ie across the 47000uF buffer cap)

since the converter is, say, 80% efficient then 20% of all energy which enters it gets dissipated mostly as heat (ie. wasted)

if we put the load on the cap side then none of its energy gets wasted by the converter, am i right?

of course the converter is used to keep the voltage stable for the drive coils, so we have to accept the 20% (say) loss for their energy

but the convertor only NEEDS to stop any EXCESS energy going to the drive coils

so ALL additional excess is available to power any external load(s)

any comments? (or should i just start taking my meds again?)

great teamwork all !
np

(DFQ** = Damn Fool Question)


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
I am using the bulb at dc regulator output only because before the regulator I have about 15 volts, but I could use 2 10w bulbs in series there.
I have tried adding a 50w bulb and everything stopped.The most I can take out is about 25w, after that even if I add just 2-3 watts more the system slows down a lot going to a stop.
I have done the testing and all coils/magnet arrangements with a 20w bulb loaded all the time.
It looks that the system is tuned for this load. The coils should have been larger a bit.Next build I will do better.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #385 on: May 08, 2011, 07:24:59 PM »
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Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #386 on: May 08, 2011, 07:32:35 PM »
Hi Romero:
    I really want to know the DC-DC converter which is what?
    -----------------------------------------------------
    I am very worried about hidden inside a battery.
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Very much hope that you can use facts to eliminate my doubts.

    If you have offended, please forgive, because so far no one has successfully copied.

http://www.maplin.co.uk/universal-3a-dc-power-supply-228639
do you really think that a battery that size will run the system for that time?
I understand you and all others having doubts but soon you will see more comming, not from me.
I have a friend who is about to finish a replication but bigger size, he started building about the same time I did. He is looking to get more than 100w out.I am curious too but confident that he will succeed.

Offline eastcoastwilly

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #387 on: May 08, 2011, 07:34:05 PM »
Thanks Romerouk

@everyone

Am I correct in thinking Muller used magnetite powder at one point?

Lots of things to try out at some point :)

From Energetic forum from Dr. Peter Lindemann on making your own magnetite cores. Hope it helps.

Will
 
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/7468-how-can-i-make-good-magnetic-sand-cores.html#post131820[/QUOTE]


Offline EMdevices

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #388 on: May 08, 2011, 07:55:30 PM »
RomeroUK,

thank you for your previous answers and new video. 

One question I have is:  does the device operate with the stator magnets reversed?  Have you tried that in the past?


EM

Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #389 on: May 08, 2011, 07:59:45 PM »
Thanks Romerouk

@everyone

Am I correct in thinking Muller used magnetite powder at one point?

Lots of things to try out at some point :)
Bill Muller stated that he was using magnetite powder. I have never tried but I do have about 1kg of magnetite powder and I will have to build a core and compare with ferrite.
Too much things to do, maybe some others will contribute and do some of this work.

 

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