Author Topic: Muller Dynamo (Read 4342441 times)

Arthurs · « **Reply #240 on:** May 07, 2011, 05:40:00 PM »

Hi Romero

Total use of several small magnets?
All are uniformly placed in the top of the rotor circle?

Thank you

neptune · « **Reply #241 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:18:00 PM »

@Arthurs . Please respect that Romerouk is under pressure . Please read through all the thread and that will answer 99% of your questions . There are 8 equally spaced magnets on the rotor .Hope that helps .

woopy · « **Reply #242 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:34:56 PM »

Hi Romero

how a lot of question and thank's so much to have this patience.

I am at my shop and doing the rotor. I would like to be very near from your config.

So I have a small problem. If i take some measurement on your set up and my CAD drawing, it seems that the spacing between magnets arround the disk is not correct if i use 20mm diameter magnet on a 25 cm rotor disk.

On my CAD design or the rotor is 25 cm and in this case the magnet should be 25 mm diameter, or the rotor is 20 cm diameter and the magnet are 20 mm diameter

Can you please remeasure your rotor disk diameter and 20 mm magnet diameter.

( on the pix the black circle are the magnet 20 mm and the red circle are the coil with the 6 mm ferrite core the rotor is 20 cm diameter. the wood rotor bottom is 25 cm and you see the 20 mm diameter magnet seems very small on this disk)

Many thanks

Good luck for the future

Laurent

Arthurs · « **Reply #243 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:38:07 PM »

Quote from: neptune on May 07, 2011, 06:18:00 PM

@Arthurs . Please respect that Romerouk is under pressure . Please read through all the thread and that will answer 99% of your questions . There are 8 equally spaced magnets on the rotor .Hope that helps .

I'm sorry, and thank you for answers!

void109 · « **Reply #244 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:56:56 PM »

I believe I read that he is using two hall sensors. I also believe I read that we are trying to activate the pickup coils at TDC of the magnet.

Which of those two statements are incorrect? Or both? With a 9/8 ratio of magnets to coils, and only two hall sensors to set trigger points, I don't see how it is possible for each of the coils to activate at the same relative position to the nearest approaching magnet. Looking at the CAD drawing woopy took a photo of illustrates this.

Wouldn't it be the case that each coil would need its own hall sensor?

Thanks Rom!

romerouk · « **Reply #245 on:** May 07, 2011, 06:58:54 PM »

Quote from: woopy on May 07, 2011, 06:34:56 PM

Hi Romero

how a lot of question and thank's so much to have this patience.

I am at my shop and doing the rotor. I would like to be very near from your config.

So I have a small problem. If i take some measurement on your set up and my CAD drawing, it seems that the spacing between magnets arround the disk is not correct if i use 20mm diameter magnet on a 25 cm rotor disk.

On my CAD design or the rotor is 25 cm and in this case the magnet should be 25 mm diameter, or the rotor is 20 cm diameter and the magnet are 20 mm diameter

Can you please remeasure your rotor disk diameter and 20 mm magnet diameter.

( on the pix the black circle are the magnet 20 mm and the red circle are the coil with the 6 mm ferrite core the rotor is 20 cm diameter. the wood rotor bottom is 25 cm and you see the 20 mm diameter magnet seems very small on this disk)

Many thanks

Good luck for the future

Laurent

Hi,
I have measured the rotor and it is 20cm, sorry. I had so many changes and I also had a 25cm and a 35 cm rotor in another setup.
Diameter has nothing to do with the results if u space the magnets equally.
Based on previous tests larger diameter = better results.
All other dimensions are 100% correct.
I have just tried to have the device running on the side and even upside down.
On the side looks the same but upside down slows down a lot.It might be nothing, maybe the way the bearings are behaving in contact with the shaft, I am not sure yet.
I am trying now to have it suspended with a piece of cotton string and do a video.

romerouk · « **Reply #246 on:** May 07, 2011, 07:02:45 PM »

Quote from: void109 on May 07, 2011, 06:56:56 PM

I believe I read that he is using two hall sensors. I also believe I read that we are trying to activate the pickup coils at TDC of the magnet.

Which of those two statements are incorrect? Or both? With a 9/8 ratio of magnets to coils, and only two hall sensors to set trigger points, I don't see how it is possible for each of the coils to activate at the same relative position to the nearest approaching magnet. Looking at the CAD drawing woopy took a photo of illustrates this.

Wouldn't it be the case that each coil would need its own hall sensor?

Thanks Rom!

The 2 driving coils are running independently, not activating at the same time, that is what I need, to have the second coil activating when the other one is completely off

woopy · « **Reply #247 on:** May 07, 2011, 07:18:57 PM »

Thank's a lot Romero

and now lets go drilling

yepeee

Laurent

gotoluc · « **Reply #248 on:** May 07, 2011, 07:33:56 PM »

Quote from: romerouk on May 07, 2011, 04:30:12 PM

Hi,
I don't have a glass that size but I will organise something like having it hanging with a piece of string, maybe that is even better.

Hi romerouk,

thank you for the reply and offer. I would not want you to waste your valuable time at this point.

Using wires to hold it up would only bring more questions as they could be used as conductors.

The best way would be to use a glass but the generator needs to be away from the supports. You also need to replace that large Capacitor. It looks like it's much higher voltage value than you need. Replace it with the same uF value but in the voltage range your generator is working in, then it would be much smaller so people couldn't say you have Laptop batteries in there.

If you cannot do the above then don't spend time on it as it would not help.

Thanks for your time.

Luc

neptune · « **Reply #249 on:** May 07, 2011, 07:34:58 PM »

A plea to all computer wizz kids . I would not know a cad if it jumped up and bit me . Could someone post a diagram of two circles ,with lines radiating from the centre to the circumference . One circle to have 8 spokes and one 7 spokes . Then one could print these , stick them to discs , and use them as a drilling guide for rotor and stator . Just a thought .

e2matrix · « **Reply #250 on:** May 07, 2011, 07:52:03 PM »

Maybe it would help to know the math for the angles between coils and also magnets. Easy enough to calculate at 45Â° for 8 equally spaced in a circle and 40Â° for 9 equally spaced in the circle. A couple basic drafting tools (even school kids type should work) and you can do the layout. Just put coils and magnets same exact distance from center on these angles and you've got it. That way you don't even need to know the distance between them as long as the angles are correct and the distance from absolute center is the same.

e2matrix · « **Reply #251 on:** May 07, 2011, 07:56:23 PM »

Quote from: neptune on May 07, 2011, 07:34:58 PM

A plea to all computer wizz kids . I would not know a cad if it jumped up and bit me . Could someone post a diagram of two circles ,with lines radiating from the centre to the circumference . One circle to have 8 spokes and one 7 spokes . Then one could print these , stick them to discs , and use them as a drilling guide for rotor and stator . Just a thought .

Did you mean 9 spokes rather than 7 ? You do have a good idea there and if it's done as a .jpg most programs can easily resize it for any other rotor sizes being built. What I mentioned above should cover it too and can be easily adjust for different magnet sizes by centering the magnet over your angle lines.

teslaalset · « **Reply #252 on:** May 07, 2011, 07:57:45 PM »

Quote from: e2matrix on May 07, 2011, 07:52:03 PM

Maybe it would help to know the math for the angles between coils and also magnets. Easy enough to calculate at 45Â° for 8 equally spaced in a circle and 40Â° for 9 equally spaced in the circle. A couple basic drafting tools (even school kids type should work) and you can do the layout. Just put coils and magnets same exact distance from center on these angles and you've got it. That way you don't even need to know the distance between them as long as the angles are correct and the distance from absolute center is the same.

Neptune,

I normally do this in Excel, using doughnut graphs.
I've attached a zipped Excel file example of one you can use.
The excel example contains 3 donuts, 7, 8 and 9 segments.

The thickness of the doughnuts can be adjusted by rightclick on the doughnut graph and then click 'Format data series'. You will get a window that looks like the one below.
Play around with the sliders to get the appearance you want.
Don't use the picture of the doughnut, it's just for example, use the zip file just above the slider picture.

Bruce_TPU · « **Reply #253 on:** May 07, 2011, 08:08:15 PM »

Hi Romero,
Congratulations! Very well done, indeed. Thank you for publicly showing your working replication of the Muller device.

Hi Groundloop,

Your drawing, showed the magnets between the coil ends and the rotor, in repulsion, but Romero, says he is driving them in attraction, yet approved your drawing. I would just like clarification, and if it is attraction, to readjust the picture perhaps..

Aside from that, the picture is awesome, and a big help. Thank you!

At ALL,
The individually stranded wire, in Romero's setup is simply reducing the resistance of the wire, allowing for greater output. Often, coils are engineered with large diameter wire, for low resistance, but often, this results in lower number of turns, thus less inductance per coil. This is easily overcome, by using individually insulated wire, for even less resistance, and also a greater number of turns per coil resulting in greater inductance, less resistance and greater output. Take the resistance of the wire, for said number of feet (length) and divide that by the number of wires you are running in parallel, and this will give you the new resistance of said stranded wire.

Cheers,

Bruce

Groundloop · « **Reply #254 on:** May 07, 2011, 08:18:18 PM »

Quote from: Bruce_TPU on May 07, 2011, 08:08:15 PM

Hi Romero,
Congratulations! Very well done, indeed. Thank you for publicly showing your working replication of the Muller device.

Hi Groundloop,

Your drawing, showed the magnets between the coil ends and the rotor, in repulsion, but Romero, says he is driving them in attraction, yet approved your drawing. I would just like clarification, and if it is attraction, to readjust the picture perhaps.. Aside from that, the picture is awesome, and a big help. Thank you!

At ALL,
The individually stranded wire, in Romero's setup is simply reducing the resistance of the wire, allowing for greater output. Often, coils are engineered with large diameter wire, for low resistance, but often, this results in lower number of turns, thus less inductance per coil. This is easily overcome, by using individually insulated wire, for even less resistance, and also a greater number of turns per coil resulting in greater inductance, less resistance and greater output. Take the resistance of the wire, for said number of feet (length) and divide that by the number of wires you are running in parallel, and this will give you the new resistance of said stranded wire.

Cheers,

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

The magnets and rotor was the only part of my drawing that I did not draw. :-)
It was a copy from Romero's drawing, so you must ask him.

Attached is the updated drawing.

GL.

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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo (Read 4342441 times)

Arthurs

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