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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3573916 times)

Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2011, 02:28:09 PM »
I am trying to get a team together to replicate this . One problem with replication can be , do you try to exactly copy  the working example or do you use materials to hand to save money . I plan to compromise by building a good shaft and rotor and then experimenting with the other bits .
           Here is an important question . What is the orientation of the magnets on top of the coils? If we assume that all rotor magnets are north pole up , are the magnets on top of the coils north pole up or south pole up . Also I need to learn more about Hall effect switches .Obviously , the motor drive coil needs to be energised as a magnet approaches it , and switched off as the magnet comes to its closest point to the coil . I am not quite clear at the moment what causes it to switch off at this point .

hi Neptune

sounds like a good approach

this is the first time that i've been seriously tempted to build a motor, rather than a solid-state device

wrt the static mags, since their purpose is to 'null' the attraction between rotor mags & coil cores, then it seems likely that the upper mags are opposing the rotor mag orientation - does that seem sensible?

i think i noticed that Romero has what appear to be steel washers (glued?) to the upper frame above the coil positions, so that the upper mags hold themselves in place but can be moved easily (neat?)

when you get a larger one of these powering your bike i'm going to get on a train and come up to Lincolnshire and cheer you on!  :)


hope this helps (...er, i don't mean the cheering bit)
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 05:39:21 PM by nul-points »

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2011, 02:28:09 PM »

Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #106 on: May 06, 2011, 02:29:49 PM »
Hi folks, well I'm working on a replication, though I will be using 5/16" diameter steel bolts with 24 gauge wire, had 6 already made from previous project, just need to make 4 more and am using 6 - 1" diameter neo magnets on 3/4" mdf rotor, 6" center to center of magnets.
Will be using 10 coils total or 5 per side.
Will use hall effect with TIP42. Will start with one coil pair drive.
Will use same 1" diameter neo magnets at back of coil/cores to reduce drag.

I've built similar setups previously, so this will be no problem, just have some drilling and coiling to do yet.
peace love light
tyson
I am not sure about the steel bolts, I tried in my first attempts with steel screw and that was a total failure.If you insist using it make sure u have enough gap betwen the coil and the rotor.
5 coils each side  might not be enough because you'll have a big distance betwen the coils that can affect the system. I have never tried it like that but in the end we will learn from all this.
Ultra important is to have the magnets spaced equally and the coils too.Failing in this arangement will cause system not to work properly. Leave the hall sensor to the ned to be able to find the right position and do it separately for each coil, not having both powered.
Initial tests must start with a load connected, at least a 5w but 10w will be better.
Don't connect all rectifiers togheter from the beginning, test and do the magnets adjustments individually.

I wish you luck.

PS: I already have a lot of offers to sell my device:) I have no intention to do that.
First I need to replicate myself then we shall see. I need to be able to do it again but this time at a bigger scale.
I have another small device in testing, a bit different than this one but I might get some extra output if it is going to confirm my thoughts but not yet.
I have most of the parts for the new build but not the rotor and bigger magnets.The magnets I am going to order today but the rotor is a pain.
I am not sure if building the coils as Bill suggested is of any advantage, that must be tested before comparing with a standard coil.

Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2011, 02:51:07 PM »
Hi Nul-points . I would agree that your theory on the coil-top magnets sounds most likely .But it would be nice to hear cofirmation from the man . I am still wondering about using old ferrite rod from old radios as cores ,because I have some . I know not all ferrites are equal .Based on a rotor speed of 5000RPM and 9 coils ,AC frequency in the coils would be about 45 Khz ., a much lower frequency than the ferrite sees in the radio .Criticism of this theory invited .
        For a pensioner like me ,Neo magnets are expensive , so I face 3 choices
1. choose the exact magnets Romerouk uses
2. Choose larger Neos in the hope of building a bigger machine .
3.Experiment initially with ceramic magnets from microwave ovens , which I have already.
Again criticism welcome .
@Romerouk . What is your longest looped run to date please?

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2011, 02:51:07 PM »
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Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2011, 02:53:10 PM »
Hi romerouk, thanks for the tips and info.
I've built Muller odd/even setups like this in the past, though It may in the end need ferrite cores or equivalent to prevent all the losses.
At least I'll have it all setup to use ferrite, etc. later on.
I'm going to use a separate timing rotor that has smaller ferrite magnets, that way I can easily adjust the hall sensors using that.
peace love light
tyson

Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2011, 02:56:46 PM »

PS: I already have a lot of offers to sell my device:) I have no intention to do that.
First I need to replicate myself then we shall see.


hi Romero

your achievement** here could be a 'tipping point' for the future direction of small-scale to medium-scale energy supply

if that becomes true, then that prototype could well become a part of history - i'd either hang on to it, or donate it to a museum at some point

it's not that a particular device is the key thing here - it's just showing the world that this is a feasible means of using energy


** i know that you've followed on from Bill Muller's lead here, but your system may be the step which moves everything forward

good luck for the future
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2011, 02:56:46 PM »
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Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #110 on: May 06, 2011, 03:05:43 PM »
the 'all-N' mag setup on the rotor here may be a 'departure' from usual, but the benefit is obviously that Romero has been able to 'tune' the anti-cogging of the rotor with the coil cores

an N-S-N-S.. mag rotor setup wouldn't work with this anti-cogging arrangement

the static mags here are doing work 'for free' which is often achieved by a more complicated powered electromagnetic setup

i think Romero has achieved a very 'minimalistic' design where everything is working together in synergy - definitely greater than the sum of it's parts

...hmmm, that could equally well be a definition of 'Overunity' !  ;)

cheers all
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

[Edit to clarify magnet scheme]
 
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 05:04:51 PM by nul-points »

Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #111 on: May 06, 2011, 03:25:11 PM »
@neptune
What is your longest looped run to date please?
Well the longest is the one I have recorded yesterday(about 20 min), after that I had no patience to sit and just look at it.I have some other projects in progress but this weekend I will have it running over night.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #111 on: May 06, 2011, 03:25:11 PM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #112 on: May 06, 2011, 04:08:19 PM »
@Romerouk .First can you please definitely confirm the number of magnets and the number of coil pairs as I am trying to collate a list of essential facts to help everyone . I understand you getting bored after 20 minutes . If it had been me , they would probably have to drag me away several weeks later before I starved to death! Sorry , I realise that you have life and a family .
,But to me it would be more exiting than the Royal Wedding , The Cup final , the Olympics and the first Mars Landing , all rolled into one!

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #113 on: May 06, 2011, 04:52:17 PM »
@romerouk,

What is the diameter of you rotor?
Also, what is the distance from the rotor outer rim and to the Neo magnets?

GL.

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #113 on: May 06, 2011, 04:52:17 PM »
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Offline bourne

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #114 on: May 06, 2011, 05:18:38 PM »
I am trying to get a team together to replicate this . One problem with replication can be , do you try to exactly copy  the working example or do you use materials to hand to save money .

I'm in neptune, If you still need anyone. PM me and I will send you my email address.

I have a busy evening with work, but I have dedicated the whole weekend to this and have monday as holiday.

Time to revive my RS account.

Good to see everyone so busy since I last logged in.

Offline i_ron

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #115 on: May 06, 2011, 05:37:30 PM »
Hi,
I understand what you are saying but this is exactly how I used the circuit and it works just fine.As I said before, other people here have replicated that circuit and worked perfec, I think woopy is one of them.I had it running as is from 3.5 volt input to 18v input.
That resistor has a role in my understanding, I don't care in general about the info presented about a product, I am always trying to see it my way and in general I was right.
As I said it works as is.

LOL, I didn't say it didn't work, just that it may not be "good engineering"

Lots of people will be getting their first taste of electronics here now this is out and as a first step it would be best to present the hall in a manner that they can build on latter. As it is this works only on a PNP transistor. When you come to advance to the next level this simplification will not work.

It is working simply by taking the base to ground on activation then letting "leakage" currents take it back to a positive potential to turn off the transistor. All I was suggesting was that this could lead to sloppy imprecise timing.

But again, thank you for sharing the fruits of your research here, it is much appreciated.  One question... is the 'helper' magnet separated from the back of the coil by the full thickness of the acrylic? Would you confirm that the switching is to attract in?

Thanks

Ron

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #115 on: May 06, 2011, 05:37:30 PM »
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Offline void109

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #116 on: May 06, 2011, 05:50:02 PM »
Found this video on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArEjBIlKUes

This guy looks to have built a working muller device as well, just on a larger scale

Here's his website, he's logged what he's done

http://home.mchsi.com/~actt2/index.html

So it looks like this Muller dynamo has been independently replicated!

Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #117 on: May 06, 2011, 06:02:28 PM »
LOL, I didn't say it didn't work, just that it may not be "good engineering"

Lots of people will be getting their first taste of electronics here now this is out and as a first step it would be best to present the hall in a manner that they can build on latter. As it is this works only on a PNP transistor. When you come to advance to the next level this simplification will not work.

It is working simply by taking the base to ground on activation then letting "leakage" currents take it back to a positive potential to turn off the transistor. All I was suggesting was that this could lead to sloppy imprecise timing.

But again, thank you for sharing the fruits of your research here, it is much appreciated.  One question... is the 'helper' magnet separated from the back of the coil by the full thickness of the acrylic? Would you confirm that the switching is to attract in?

Thanks

Ron
I understand now.I know there is a lot of improvement that can be done on driving circuit.I used something I tested and used many times before. Any driver circuit will do, even simple bedini if the driving coils are made that way.
The 'helper magnet' is separated from the coil by the thickness of the acrylic (1cm).On the acrylic is glued  a 1mm/20mm washer then the magnet on top.
I am driving in attraction mode. I have started the project in repulsion then tried attraction. I get much better torque in attraction.
I have spent about one month to do all this testings and adjustments. Small things can make a huge difference, like my extra diodes on top of the rectifier.The gap from the rotor to the coil I had it increased and decreased hundreds of times to get it right.

All the best,
RomeroUK

Offline nul-points

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #118 on: May 06, 2011, 06:11:03 PM »

 Small things can make a huge difference, like my extra diodes on top of the rectifier

All the best,
RomeroUK

hi Romero

is it possible to provide a simple sketch for the connection of the 'extra diodes'?

many thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #119 on: May 06, 2011, 06:25:20 PM »
hi Romero

is it possible to provide a simple sketch for the connection of the 'extra diodes'?

many thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
no need for a sketch, they are in parallel with the one inside the rectifier

 

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