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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3510471 times)

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #90 on: May 06, 2011, 01:47:21 AM »
A3144

@romerouk,

Back a few pages you posted a drawing of your switch.
The switching transistor inside the A3144 is a NPN
capable of switching 25mA. In your drawing you did
use a 100 Ohm resistor. Did you use this resistor
as a pull up from pin 3 (collector inside A3144) to
the positive rail?

GL.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #90 on: May 06, 2011, 01:47:21 AM »

Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #91 on: May 06, 2011, 02:03:04 AM »
@romerouk,

Back a few pages you posted a drawing of your switch.
The switching transistor inside the A3144 is a NPN
capable of switching 25mA. In your drawing you did
use a 100 Ohm resistor. Did you use this resistor
as a pull up from pin 3 (collector inside A3144) to
the positive rail?

GL.
I call it pin 1 the voltage in, from plus goes to pin 1 thru a 100ohm resistor.
This schematic was used by many others in the shorting coil experiments.It is simple and works great.For my next build I am going to use proper mosfets with dedicated driver circuits...

Offline poynt99

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #92 on: May 06, 2011, 02:07:27 AM »
Hi Romero,

CONGRATULATIONS!  You seem to have a COP=2 setup!  Very good.

For any naysayers a possible looping should be practical by using a DC/DC converter, such off the shelf units have at least a COP of 0.8 i.e. a 80% efficiency (or higher), this means the resultant COP still remains around 1.6 (0.8*2) and because you showed 12V output at 2A current (24Watt) the remaining available extra power (beyond the output taken for selfrunning) is at least 5-6Watt:
you can win the overunity price right now!

Here is a possible DC/DC converter I think would be good for looping back your output to input:
http://www.powerstream.com/dc6.htm

rgds,  Gyula
Looping or using a scope to measure the output power will tell the true story.

The input power (~ 11.3W) is going to be fairly accurate because of the DC source. However Gyula, you should be aware that multiplying an average current by an average voltage of an output produced by induced currents in a coil, is not going to have a power factor of 1, and therefore the simple product of 24W will not be accurate.

Judging by the intensity of the bulb and assuming the efficiency to be 80%, the true output power is likely closer to 8W or 9W.

Nice job on the build R. :)

.99

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #92 on: May 06, 2011, 02:07:27 AM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #93 on: May 06, 2011, 03:02:42 AM »
I have asked this before but if got missed in the exitement . All the rotor magnets are same pole face up . I feel that this may mean that from a given generator coil , the out put will be not AC , but pulsed DC . If this is true , then a BRIDGE RECTIFIER IS NOT NEEDED.It can be replaced by a single diode . Can anybody confirn or deny this please? Single diode equals less volts drop and higher output .

Neptune,

A single magnet passing a single coil makes AC You do not need NSNS to make AC. What controls the wave form is the direction of motion.

As the magnet approaches the coil it generate say a positive pulse. At TDC there is zero induction, As the magnet recedes from the coil it generates a negative pulse (depending on the magnet pole and the hand of the coil)

Ron


Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2011, 03:03:56 AM »
Hi folks, Hi romerouk, thanks again for all the information and videos.

I recall reading something from Muller about hardened steel ball bearings and also tubular steel cores could be used instead of the magnetite that he used.
Though I don't have any of the above, nor do i have a sufficient supply of ferrite cores.
All I have are steel bolts, so i will use those for the time being.
I have 1" diameter neos I'll be using, with 6 neo magnet rotor from another project.
peace love light
tyson :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #94 on: May 06, 2011, 03:03:56 AM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #95 on: May 06, 2011, 03:19:39 AM »
I call it pin 1 the voltage in, from plus goes to pin 1 thru a 100ohm resistor.
This schematic was used by many others in the shorting coil experiments.It is simple and works great.For my next build I am going to use proper mosfets with dedicated driver circuits...

Not wishing to detract from your achievement but it is my understanding that the A3144 has a built in voltage regulator so no resistor is needed in the supply to pin 1. However, as Ground loop pointed out there should be a 5 to 10K resistor from pin 3 to + supply as a pullup for the open collector.
Normally this resistor can go from pin 1 to pin 3.

If this sketch came from EV Grey, then a word of caution, several circuits are incorrectly presented.

http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/hall-effect-sensor-ic-applications-guide/AN27701.pdf

Fig 11

Ron




Offline gyulasun

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2011, 09:34:54 AM »
Looping or using a scope to measure the output power will tell the true story.

The input power (~ 11.3W) is going to be fairly accurate because of the DC source. However Gyula, you should be aware that multiplying an average current by an average voltage of an output produced by induced currents in a coil, is not going to have a power factor of 1, and therefore the simple product of 24W will not be accurate.

Judging by the intensity of the bulb and assuming the efficiency to be 80%, the true output power is likely closer to 8W or 9W.

Nice job on the build R. :)

.99

Hi poynt99,

In general you are right. But in this setup there should be an anomaly in the induction process because actually the looping works and your estimation of the 8-9W output would certainly be NOT enough to create the needed 11.3W.

As you surely noticed Romero used a full wave diode bridge at each coil output and although in his last but one video he did not use a puffer capacitor (later in the looping video he did) the moving coil current and voltage meters shown at the output did the averaging job pretty well. What really shows the anomaly, it is the input current: when Romero loads the output with the bulb, the 0.93A input current changes but a very little, it is like the action-reaction part would be at a minimum.

So it is the anomaly which is to be understood / explained.   :)

rgds,  Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #96 on: May 06, 2011, 09:34:54 AM »
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Offline romerouk

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #97 on: May 06, 2011, 09:36:18 AM »
Not wishing to detract from your achievement but it is my understanding that the A3144 has a built in voltage regulator so no resistor is needed in the supply to pin 1. However, as Ground loop pointed out there should be a 5 to 10K resistor from pin 3 to + supply as a pullup for the open collector.
Normally this resistor can go from pin 1 to pin 3.

If this sketch came from EV Grey, then a word of caution, several circuits are incorrectly presented.

http://www.allegromicro.com/en/Products/Design/hall-effect-sensor-ic-applications-guide/AN27701.pdf

Fig 11

Ron
Hi,
I understand what you are saying but this is exactly how I used the circuit and it works just fine.As I said before, other people here have replicated that circuit and worked perfec, I think woopy is one of them.I had it running as is from 3.5 volt input to 18v input.
That resistor has a role in my understanding, I don't care in general about the info presented about a product, I am always trying to see it my way and in general I was right.
As I said it works as is.

Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #98 on: May 06, 2011, 09:41:13 AM »
@I-ron . Thanks for clearing up that point about AC or DC output . @poynt99 .what you say about measurement and power factor is a point I brought up earlier .However , this argument becomes irrelevant in view of the fact that the machine has been looped AND feeds a load at the same time .

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #98 on: May 06, 2011, 09:41:13 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #99 on: May 06, 2011, 09:47:55 AM »
@I-ron . Thanks for clearing up that point about AC or DC output . @poynt99 .what you say about measurement and power factor is a point I brought up earlier .However , this argument becomes irrelevant in view of the fact that the machine has been looped AND feeds a load at the same time .

Hi Neptune,

As an addition to Ron's answer, here is a link you can read on the induced waveforms:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mromexp.htm 

Gyula

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2011, 10:51:06 AM »
Hi folks, well I'm working on a replication, though I will be using 5/16" diameter steel bolts with 24 gauge wire, had 6 already made from previous project, just need to make 4 more and am using 6 - 1" diameter neo magnets on 3/4" mdf rotor, 6" center to center of magnets.
Will be using 10 coils total or 5 per side.
Will use hall effect with TIP42. Will start with one coil pair drive.
Will use same 1" diameter neo magnets at back of coil/cores to reduce drag.

I've built similar setups previously, so this will be no problem, just have some drilling and coiling to do yet.
peace love light
tyson

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #100 on: May 06, 2011, 10:51:06 AM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #101 on: May 06, 2011, 01:09:12 PM »
I am trying to get a team together to replicate this . One problem with replication can be , do you try to exactly copy  the working example or do you use materials to hand to save money . I plan to compromise by building a good shaft and rotor and then experimenting with the other bits .
           Here is an important question . What is the orientation of the magnets on top of the coils? If we assume that all rotor magnets are north pole up , are the magnets on top of the coils north pole up or south pole up . Also I need to learn more about Hall effect switches .Obviously , the motor drive coil needs to be energised as a magnet approaches it , and switched off as the magnet comes to its closest point to the coil . I am not quite clear at the moment what causes it to switch off at this point .

Offline SkyWatcher123

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #102 on: May 06, 2011, 02:02:57 PM »
Hi folks, here's information from the Muller web site.
peace love light
tyson

Offline gauschor

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #103 on: May 06, 2011, 02:15:44 PM »
Guys, is it only me who doesn't understand or am I simply stupid:

I have currently a lot of trouble to estimate and guess which parts are needed to replicate this device, I don't even know where the circuit need to be attached, which coils are connected to where, where is the driver coil, how is it controlled, where are the rectifiers, whats the size of the magnets, how should they be aligned, how many magnets? is it only 8 magnets in the rotor, or is it 2x9(magnets below and on top of the 2 discs)+8 magnets(rotor) etc.

- to keep it short: I miss some organisation in here and I can't even start a replication without this information. And I'm asking myself how can any of you?

The only things I can guess is now:
"Ok, we have a different number of coils and magnets.
Somehow coils are coupled with one another through a rectifier.
Somehow a circuit with a transistor and a hall sensor is attached which does something.
Somewhere also is a capacitor with 4700µF and 20-40V which in the end will allow the selfrunner".

This allows too much juggling... :(

Offline poynt99

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #104 on: May 06, 2011, 02:22:19 PM »
Sorry guys,

I had not yet seen the "Muller Generator - self running - Test1" looping video before I posted.

Good stuff Romero! I can't say I see any "problems" there. :)

Why isn't Stefan all over this yet? Has he seen the thread and video?

Reminds me of the Mike Window Motor a few years back.

Cheers,
.99

PS. I've started a new thread on this at OUR.

 

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