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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3540265 times)

Offline Dbowling

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #930 on: May 12, 2011, 10:08:04 PM »
As we experiment with different magnet configurations on the coils, it is important that we be able to rotate the motor using a dc motor and controller at a fixed voltage, so that we can see if different magnet configurations on the coils increase or decrease the rpms of the motor. Has anyone any info on which coils had magnets, and how many? It is impossible to tell from the pictures I have seen so far, but as I locate more pictures, I accumulate more information. At some point we need to put together a diagram of the top and bottom coils and start talking about which ones have magnets on them and how many, and which ones have no magnets. You can see ALL the top coils in one of the pictures, but not the bottom coils. Perhaps they are a reversed mirror image, as in the coils that have two agnets on the top coil have no magnets on the bottom coil. I suppose tie will tell.

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #930 on: May 12, 2011, 10:08:04 PM »

Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #931 on: May 12, 2011, 10:26:47 PM »
@Dbowling . As far as i know , Romero did not fit magnets to all coils as he ran out of magnets . No magnets are fitted to drive coils either top or bottom . So he intended that all top and bottom generator coils should have magnets . Note that either through necessity or design , some of these coil magnets are only half thickness , that is , 29mm x 5mm . someone correct me if I am wrong .

Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #932 on: May 12, 2011, 10:29:38 PM »
@Libra-spirit . Three of us have been considering a theory close to yours in private ,And as it was not my original idea I will leave the disclosure to others . I think this is very significant .

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #932 on: May 12, 2011, 10:29:38 PM »
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Offline powercat

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #933 on: May 12, 2011, 10:35:00 PM »
This picture shows magnets on top of (some) of the coils, is this part of tuning?
How many magnets on top of coils are they on the underside ?

Offline caccr2000

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #934 on: May 12, 2011, 10:41:42 PM »
e pensado en utilizar este circuito como prueba en cada bobina para ver su comportamiento

Convertidor DC-DC de 1.5V a 15V

 
Este circuito es esencialmente un convertidor DC-DC elevador (step up), permite obtener 15 voltios de salida a partir de una simple pila de 1.5 voltios (B1) sin necesidad de utilizar transformadores ni circuitos integrados especializados. El corazón del circuito es un oscilador, desarrollado alrededor de dos transistores complementarios (Q1 y Q2), que gobierna una bobina (L1).

Al conectar B1, circula inicialmente una corriente a través de R2 y R1, causando que Q1 y Q2 conduzcan. Como resultado, L1 es atravesada por una corriente que magnetiza progresivamente su núcleo hasta saturarlo. Cuando esto sucede, cesa interiormente el flujo de corriente y el campo magnético que rodea la bobina colapsa, generándose una fuerza contraelectromotriz (fcem) que polariza inversamente la base de Q1. Como resultado, Q1 y Q2 dejan de conducir. El proceso se repite indefinidamente.

La energía de la fcem generada por L1 se rectifica mediante un diodo Schottky (D1) y se almacena en un condensador electrolítico (C1) como un voltaje D.C. Puesto que este voltaje es relativamente alto, mayor de 20V, cualquier voltaje de salida por debajo de este valor puede ser fácilmente obtenido utilizando un diodo zener o un regulador de tres terminales. En este caso se emplea un zener de 15V(D2), pero se puede utilizar otra tensión de referencia dependiendo de las necesidades particulares.



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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #934 on: May 12, 2011, 10:41:42 PM »
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Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #935 on: May 12, 2011, 10:45:51 PM »
@Powercat . I dont think we know exactly how many magnets are on the underside . Watch the video with the device suspended in the air , thats your best bet .And yes , remember each coil pair needs individual tuning . That may involve cardboard shims bbetween magnet and coil .
        Just a cryptic thought . Perhaps there is no new phenomenon or priciple behind all this .New discoveries are usually made up of known devices and processes assembled in a never-before tried combination .A unique arrangement .
       

Offline woopy

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #936 on: May 12, 2011, 10:49:08 PM »
hi all

2 cents for the interested replicators

i got  those small  plastic reel from sewing machine, which has exactly 20 mm outer diameter and the 6 mm hole for a ferrite rod.

i found also that some ferrite inductors has exactly a 6 mm  diameter core, the one on the pix is 25 mm length.

i wound one of those small reel with 0.3 mm plain copper wire and could get 450 turns

the  DC resistance is  6.2 ohms and the naked ( without core )  is 2 mH  with the core centered 6.8 mH   and the weight is about 15 grams

hope this helps

Good luck at all

Laurent

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #936 on: May 12, 2011, 10:49:08 PM »
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Offline Dbowling

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #937 on: May 12, 2011, 10:53:14 PM »
neptune,
Thanks for the info. I have one small problem. It doesn't matter what RomerUK INTENDED to build, because what he actually BUILT is what worked. That's kinda like saying I "Intended" to build a five wheeled car, but I only had four wheels so that's what I ended up with, but YOU should build the five wheeled car I "intended" to build.

Right now we need to duplicate the build as exactly as possible. THEN we play around with adding magnets to all the coils and see if that improves it any.  That is unless you know something we don't know. If we went ahead and built with magnets on all the coils and it doesn't work, is that because it was a fake or because we didn't duplicate the build? That is the situation we find ourselves in.

Offline powercat

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #938 on: May 12, 2011, 10:53:18 PM »
@Powercat . I dont think we know exactly how many magnets are on the underside . Watch the video with the device suspended in the air , thats your best bet .And yes , remember each coil pair needs individual tuning . That may involve cardboard shims bbetween magnet and coil .
        Just a cryptic thought . Perhaps there is no new phenomenon or priciple behind all this .New discoveries are usually made up of known devices and processes assembled in a never-before tried combination .A unique arrangement .
       

 ;D Now that last bit sounds very logical and a lot of technologies came into being that way  8)
 I will see if I can get a good screenshot of the underside.

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #938 on: May 12, 2011, 10:53:18 PM »
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Offline chrisC

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #939 on: May 12, 2011, 11:01:43 PM »
hi all

2 cents for the interested replicators

i got  those small  plastic reel from sewing machine, which has exactly 20 mm outer diameter and the 6 mm hole for a ferrite rod.

i found also that some ferrite inductors has exactly a 6 mm  diameter core, the one on the pix is 25 mm length.

i wound one of those small reel with 0.3 mm plain copper wire and could get 450 turns

the  DC resistance is  6.2 ohms and the naked ( without core )  is 2 mH  with the core centered 6.8 mH   and the weight is about 15 grams

hope this helps

Good luck at all

Laurent

Nice to know the sewing machine plastic reel yield about the right sizes. Thanks Laurent.

btw, anyone knows what bearing contraption Romero used for his rotor/spindle and where to find one in the U.S? Thanks.

cheers
chrisC

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #940 on: May 12, 2011, 11:04:42 PM »
Guys. I can be some help here. It is easy and less expensive than you think to drive an R/C airplane motor or any other three phase motor of that type. You may have to deal with China if you want the best prices. If you check a site like HobbyCity you can find hudreds of motors, and speed controls. Yes, they are three phase and require the speed control. Normally the speed control needs to plug into a receiver for drive control, but you can buy what is called a servo tester for less than $10 and drive the speed control right from that. I have an 80 amp speed control that I only paid $17 for but you can buy something like 20 amp controls for again $10. I'd be surprised if you if you couldnt find a complete setupf for $40-50. Wait. maybe that's to expensive. If you want to see how the setup works without being in an airlplane you can see it on this video. http://www.youtube.com/user/DadHav#p/u/1/e0q8DDtjvMY
Hope this might help
John H (DadHav)
John,  thanks for that info and link.  Can you provide links to any other favorite motor sources or do you think HobbyCity is best?  Do you have links to something like that $10 servo tester and maybe the 20 amp speed controller for around $10?  Thanks again for your help here!

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #940 on: May 12, 2011, 11:04:42 PM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #941 on: May 12, 2011, 11:06:56 PM »
Sorry Star. Your post must have went up while I was writing mine. I wouldn't have barged in if I saw yours first. Nice of you to help out if people are interested. You might have to take a close look at the KV rating of the motor right? It looked like Rom's motor wasn't running real high RPM's. Does anyone know about what range the target would be?
John

John

With just the one double coil set I only get 380 RPM. Pulse a bit wide at this time but I doubt it was much over 1000 RPM. I would think acrylic is only safe up to 1500 RPM?  if that...3000 and up is in the realm of orbiting magnets.

I run 280mm rotors at 2000 RPM but that is with the Delrin firmly bolted to a steel back plate.

Ron

Offline starcruiser

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #942 on: May 12, 2011, 11:10:15 PM »
@DadHav,

No problem. You are right, there are several sources for the less expensive motors and ESC's, the Current rating of the motor and ESC needs to be considered as well as the KV rating. The KV rating is the RPM per volt and the motors are rated to a max voltage and have a max current draw rating, the max current draw is what you want to size the ESC on as well as the rated voltage the motor should run on. The ESC's us MOSFET's in them to switch the legs on the brushless motors and the motors use NEO magnets for the rotor and are either in-runner or out-runner types. The out runner types are where the motor can turns, the top of the motor is where you mount it from. Basically the in runner vs out runner is how the magnets are mounted.

The ones I play with (helicopters :)) are out runners and run about 35000 RPM at WOT (wide open throttle). I also have a servo tester and seen them from $15 and up.

You can get low KV rating motors that run on 3.7volts and up, the bigger low KV motors are usually for large high torque applications but these use higher voltages too. you will want a motor that is around 1000 kv and is rated for 1s or 2s LiPo packs (3.7 to 7.4v) these motors can draw several amps too.

Offline neptune

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #943 on: May 12, 2011, 11:12:46 PM »
@Dbowling . I understand exactly what you are saying However I can only give you the best info I have . The run-out-of-magnets bit came from the horses mouth .
@ Woopy . Brilliant bobbins . where did you buy your cores please?

Offline woopy

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #944 on: May 12, 2011, 11:13:47 PM »
hi chris

i would recomand to use as much as possible  ( better sayd only ) all bolts and screws and axel   - . in plastic  or INOX = Stainless steel ,  to avoid magnetic interaction with the rotor.

good luck at all

Laurent

 

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