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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3747804 times)

Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6060 on: May 07, 2013, 08:59:07 PM »
I do not understand. What is MP? Can you rephrase this question?
Thank you.

}:>


hello Scorch,
do you can check your's MP, thank you, Marc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6060 on: May 07, 2013, 08:59:07 PM »

Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6061 on: May 07, 2013, 09:45:16 PM »
Am I to understand your conclusion is: "Give up" before trying anything else?
Such as a more precise motor controller and sine wave peak alternator, complete with capacitor bank, which does not appear in your video therefore is NOT the Q2.

And if you tried this experiment without a schematic, or documentation, how do you know if you built it correctly?

Not sure what you expect without a schematic or documentation.
Not sure there was ever any claim of any significant torque capabilities from what is only offered as a purely experimental device.

I do know I didn't have much interest in the QC until the incorporation of the sine wave peak alternator, and capacitor bank, as this is where most of the advantage is by way of an alternator that requires very little torque and a motor that requires very little amperage for the Q2.

As far as the documentation, including schematics, is concerned; this is the second time I saw somebody write they do not have these documents.
I do have a PDF (image scans) of the assembly manual and will post it here if I can obtain permission to share this document which does bear the word, or symbol, "copyright" in several places.

Other than that, I am sure the company can provide the information needed.
But they are probably pretty busy with orders, and even another design, so it may make take some persistence to get it done.

}:>

Well after so many problems, I sold my kit as it is, in eBay for 1/2 the price... I will stick with Bedini Stuff. >:( this shit does not works.

http://youtu.be/FenTcWVAtyA

Conclusion : no support, not good documentation, no schematics, Lenz law everywhere, and no torque... hahaha what a waste of money....

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6062 on: May 08, 2013, 01:00:49 AM »
I do not understand. What is MP? Can you rephrase this question?
Thank you.

}:>

Hi Scorch,

MP is the mixed up characters of PM  i.e. Personal Meassage I think. So when you log in, you may see your PM messages by clicking on the "Personal Messages" line under the User Menu at the left hand side column of the forum pages.

Gyula

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6062 on: May 08, 2013, 01:00:49 AM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6063 on: May 08, 2013, 05:22:31 PM »
I received word back from the two companies, involved with the Q2, regarding the sharing of information.

Both www.quantamagnetics.com and http://partdaddy.com have said that, no, they do not allow the internet upload of the assembly manual, drawings, or schematics or, otherwise, allow the sharing of said information here.

And there does not appear to be any 'support' sections, at either site, where you can download product documentation as is provided at many other companies.

So I suggest that if anybody needs this information, such as a schematic, or drawings, for your quanta magnetics product, then simply use regular contact channels through www.quantamagnetics.com or http://partdaddy.com or youtube user http://www.youtube.com/user/PMMG4HYBRID

In the meantime I am continuing, when I have the time, to assemble what I have here.
And also, when I have the time, continue working on my mini dynamo which will use the same principle (sine wave peak alternator) and I will, more than likely, author my own schematic for that and, if I get that done, I will share it here.

That is all.

Have fun experimenting.

}:>

Offline T-1000

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6064 on: May 08, 2013, 11:23:16 PM »
And if you tried this experiment without a schematic, or documentation, how do you know if you built it correctly?


http://pesn.com/2011/05/11/9501823_Romeros_Self-Sustaining_Muller_Dynamo_Drama/selfrunning_free_energy_device_muller_motor_generator_romerouk_version1_1.pdf contains schematics and assembly instructions.
Also you all can ignore RomeoUK "fake" statements because of that in http://pesn.com/2011/05/11/9501823_Romeros_Self-Sustaining_Muller_Dynamo_Drama/ :
"I had the impression that I live in a free country but it was demonstrated that anything is possible, we will never move forward.
 
I am an IT guy and I thought that I have a good brain but now after that I even forgot simple passwords and things I use every day, this is how scared I am", "All I had I posted free and it is better to be considered as not working." - for his own and his family safety because he was treatened.

So if you got your time and got stubborn wish to replicate Muller dynamo, everything is there. And that pdf caught my attention with squared sine wave oscillogram in not loaded generator coils which probably is the key to weakening Lenz forces. In conventional generators you always see pure sine wave just for comparison how different it is.

Good luck!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6064 on: May 08, 2013, 11:23:16 PM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6065 on: May 09, 2013, 01:09:40 AM »
I am of the opinion Romero's design does have a lot of potential.
BUT I also believe chances of success are going to be a lot better if we try bringing the coils closer together or use larger diameter magnets.
This should improve 'coil saturation' and I think I had my coils way to far apart in my previous builds.

If I am going to use the same .750" diameter magnets, the coils do need to be a lot closer like they are in my mini dynamo build.

I imagine a similar design, with the same 10" stator plates and 8" rotor, but the magnets, and coils, are a lot closer together which would provide a far better better '"flywheel" for kinetic energy and also mechanical advantages (leverage) with a large disk but magnets near center.

Just my thoughts anyway.
And, maybe someday, I might try that again.
I never have, really, tested all the possibilities of this thing.

Yes, I am guilty of being very lazy and not, always, motivated to face the challenges of all the different configurations, materials, experiments and unknowns. . .
I want somebody to provide a clear, and concise, plan complete with specific drawings, parts list, and schematic for a complete system that actually has been replicated a few times. . .

Please forgive my lazy tail.

}:>


http://pesn.com/2011/05/11/9501823_Romeros_Self-Sustaining_Muller_Dynamo_Drama/selfrunning_free_energy_device_muller_motor_generator_romerouk_version1_1.pdf contains schematics and assembly instructions.
Also you all can ignore RomeoUK "fake" statements because of that in http://pesn.com/2011/05/11/9501823_Romeros_Self-Sustaining_Muller_Dynamo_Drama/ :
"I had the impression that I live in a free country but it was demonstrated that anything is possible, we will never move forward.
 
I am an IT guy and I thought that I have a good brain but now after that I even forgot simple passwords and things I use every day, this is how scared I am", "All I had I posted free and it is better to be considered as not working." - for his own and his family safety because he was treatened.

So if you got your time and got stubborn wish to replicate Muller dynamo, everything is there. And that pdf caught my attention with squared sine wave oscillogram in not loaded generator coils which probably is the key to weakening Lenz forces. In conventional generators you always see pure sine wave just for comparison how different it is.

Good luck!

Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6066 on: May 09, 2013, 01:17:14 AM »

Regarding sine wave; if I build a switching system that merely 'clips' the peaks off a conventional sine wave, from a conventional PM alternator, and store those peaks in a capacitor bank, with the intention of leaving the coils mostly saturated, therefore reducing Lenz, what might the sine wave look like?

Would the positive, and negative, peaks actually have 'flat tops' giving the appearance of a square wave from a pure sine alternator?

Just wondering anyway.

}:>




So if you got your time and got stubborn wish to replicate Muller dynamo, everything is there. And that pdf caught my attention with squared sine wave oscillogram in not loaded generator coils which probably is the key to weakening Lenz forces. In conventional generators you always see pure sine wave just for comparison how different it is.

Good luck!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6066 on: May 09, 2013, 01:17:14 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline T-1000

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6067 on: May 09, 2013, 05:14:33 AM »
Regarding sine wave; if I build a switching system that merely 'clips' the peaks off a conventional sine wave, from a conventional PM alternator, and store those peaks in a capacitor bank, with the intention of leaving the coils mostly saturated, therefore reducing Lenz, what might the sine wave look like?

Would the positive, and negative, peaks actually have 'flat tops' giving the appearance of a square wave from a pure sine alternator?

Just wondering anyway.

}:>

The squared sine wave on generator coils can appear only with one condition:
When magnetic field is non-linear in regards to coils there are steep angles where induction occurs. What I did find out on E. Leedskalnin generator topic - when 2 neodyium magnets are forced together with same poles they are making such non-linear magnetic field strength - the most powerfull on the junction of 2 magnets and very weak from the edge of each magnet...

Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6068 on: May 19, 2013, 11:39:42 PM »
Managed to complete some more Q2 assembly this weekend.
Both pulse motor stator plates are now ready.
Did not use any super glue, or heat shrink, as suggested by the instructions or pictures.
I just used the holes provided to tie everything and maintained all solder connections next to coils on rotor side instead of back side.


That is all for now.

}:>
« Last Edit: May 20, 2013, 03:21:10 AM by Scorch »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6068 on: May 19, 2013, 11:39:42 PM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6069 on: May 20, 2013, 05:55:32 PM »
Was preparing to attempt assembly of main bearing, and stator, plates and discovered that, once again, have run into a problem with incomplete machine work.
I already had problems with missing rotor shims as well as other incomplete machine work, on the rotor hubs, in which most of the bolt holes were not tapped all the way through.
I was able to use my own shims and finish that machine work, on the hubs, with my own tap.

But, now, I've discovered that eleven of the aluminum 'adjusting nuts' are also not tapped all the way through or not chased properly.
These nuts are a much larger size, and fine thread, and I do not have a tap to finish these.

Almost two months later and I have yet to receive the replacement shims.
Hope the company will deliver replacement nuts a little sooner.
Otherwise I will be inclined to special order the correct the tool to finish THEIR job for which I paid for and expected to be complete. . .

On another note-
These adjusting nuts have tapped holes and set screws to 'lock' the nuts in place.
Don't know why. Do not expect any vibration issues that may loosen hardware including these large nuts.
The set screws are nylon. Don't know how effective they may be or if there might be issues with plastic set screws getting stripped or rounded out.
Don't know if the nylon has been annealed, or tempered, which can make a difference in performance and hardness.

There are no details regarding this in the assembly instructions.
In fact; there is not any specifications at all regarding these 'adjustments' such as desired clearance between rotor and coils.

}:>
« Last Edit: May 21, 2013, 01:29:28 AM by Scorch »

Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6070 on: May 22, 2013, 01:50:21 AM »
Ok; so I thought I would go ahead and attempt to assemble one end of this machine while I am still waiting for a reply regarding the incomplete machine work on the aluminum nuts.
Only to discover that both bearing plates have incomplete machine work as well. . .
The outer bolt holes, for the 10-32 cap screws are not tapped all the way through.

And I now have the impression that the machine shop ( www.partdaddy.com ) is really doing a disservice to this product.
In fact I have yet to hear back from this third party regarding the missing shims discovered nearly two months ago which have not be delivered yet.
Nor have I heard back regarding the issue, with the nuts, discovered yesterday.

On another note; I see the bearings are installed on the inside which must rely on the rotor hubs to keep bearings in place without any shaft collars.
This may be an issue because my home made shims, and spacers, are causing the magnet cups to 'bulge' just a little bit and these clearances are going to be very close.

In my opinion; the bearings should be mounted on the outside of the bearing support plate.
With shims, and shaft collars, which can easily be adjusted from the outside and would leave a lot more option to adjust things in, or out, as needed.
Which is how I am building my mini dynamo.

As it is; there really is no 'adjustment'. It has to be assembled so that bearing plates are close enough to the rotor hubs, to eliminate end play and keep bearings in place.
And this places the rotor magnet cups pretty close to the coils.
So if there is any discrepancy with magnet cups bulging, or loose, or stator plate wiring sticking up, or coils bulging out, there could be a clearance problem.
At which point, I would, STILL, be waiting for the proper shims to help eliminate any issues with assembling rotor using my own, makeshift, shims already installed at my own, out of pocket, expense.

And I still have no idea why they used magnet retainer cups, and shims, versus merely machining 'magnet pockets' directly into the rotor clam shell.

}:>

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6070 on: May 22, 2013, 01:50:21 AM »
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Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6071 on: May 24, 2013, 01:19:12 AM »
Ok, I went ahead and tapped all 18 of the outer holes on the bearing plates and was able to assemble one end of this machine.
And have determined that there should not be any clearance issues even though some of magnet cups do have a little bit of a 'bulge' due to my makeshift, rubber band, spacers.

I did discover even more machining issues.
The support posts have drilled, and tapped, holes so they can be 'stacked' together or finished off with cap screws.

What is weird is that the 3/8" - 16 aluminum post, on one end of the support post threads into the next end of the next support post without any problem.
BUT, the 3/8" -16 black steel caps screws do NOT thread in very easily.
In fact they only thread in about one turn then become VERY tight, requiring a wrench, and are picking up aluminum deposits when I back them out.
So I am concerned these black steel screws are going to seize in the aluminum holes.
Don't know why this is but it does appear the threads are not tapped very well in the aluminum holes.
This was confirmed by using a new, 3/8" - 16, tap which is cutting more aluminum out and leaving a much better looking set of threads and the cap screw now threads right in without having to using a wrench.

One thing I do find curious; pretty much everything in this machine is non-ferrous EXCEPT these cap screws.
Which are a common, black steel, alloy. Don't know why they provided these magnetic cap screws instead of aluminum, or stainless steel, like everything else is. . .

This thing is finally starting to take shape.
And, as near as I can tell, the threads for the adjusting nuts are 3/4" - 20 and I have ordered a new tap ($22.72 delivered) so I can fix the threads on those.

On another note, I did discover that the bearings are not a tight fit in the acrylic bearing plates.
The bearings actually slide right in and one even fell right, back, out when I turned the plate over.
I have now built many acrylic, bearing, plates and I always try to make it a much tighter, 'interference', fit.
I hope these bearings don't start spinning inside the plastic.
They really should be a lot tighter than this.  .  . Especially if this system is to be used for an extended period of experimental testing.

That is all for now. Still need to finish wiring the alternator stators and still need to order some parts that didn't come with the kit including diodes and a terminal block.

}:>

Offline Thestone

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6072 on: May 25, 2013, 08:19:11 AM »
Ok, I went ahead and tapped all 18 of the outer holes on the bearing plates and was able to assemble one end of this machine.
And have determined that there should not be any clearance issues even though some of magnet cups do have a little bit of a 'bulge' due to my makeshift, rubber band, spacers.

I did discover even more machining issues.
The support posts have drilled, and tapped, holes so they can be 'stacked' together or finished off with cap screws.

What is weird is that the 3/8" - 16 aluminum post, on one end of the support post threads into the next end of the next support post without any problem.
BUT, the 3/8" -16 black steel caps screws do NOT thread in very easily.
In fact they only thread in about one turn then become VERY tight, requiring a wrench, and are picking up aluminum deposits when I back them out.
So I am concerned these black steel screws are going to seize in the aluminum holes.
Don't know why this is but it does appear the threads are not tapped very well in the aluminum holes.
This was confirmed by using a new, 3/8" - 16, tap which is cutting more aluminum out and leaving a much better looking set of threads and the cap screw now threads right in without having to using a wrench.

One thing I do find curious; pretty much everything in this machine is non-ferrous EXCEPT these cap screws.
Which are a common, black steel, alloy. Don't know why they provided these magnetic cap screws instead of aluminum, or stainless steel, like everything else is. . .

This thing is finally starting to take shape.
And, as near as I can tell, the threads for the adjusting nuts are 3/4" - 20 and I have ordered a new tap ($22.72 delivered) so I can fix the threads on those.

On another note, I did discover that the bearings are not a tight fit in the acrylic bearing plates.
The bearings actually slide right in and one even fell right, back, out when I turned the plate over.
I have now built many acrylic, bearing, plates and I always try to make it a much tighter, 'interference', fit.
I hope these bearings don't start spinning inside the plastic.
They really should be a lot tighter than this.  .  . Especially if this system is to be used for an extended period of experimental testing.

That is all for now. Still need to finish wiring the alternator stators and still need to order some parts that didn't come with the kit including diodes and a terminal block.

}:>

I can see you are having a lot more issues than me putting this thing together... Like I said before for the money is not worth it.... very irresponsible from these people to charge so much money and to get something with so many issues...



Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6073 on: May 25, 2013, 06:29:00 PM »
I am not taking any position, on this, as of yet and the build is still moving forward.
I just mounted the pulse motor rectifier/relay panel last night and intend to complete a lot of the wiring today.

This is a totally experimental device, people do make mistakes, and I am very forgiving.
Any new product will tend to have 'bugs' and part vendors, or machine shops, may have their own issues such as not discovering a tap is very worn out or an employee who fails to chase threads or the engineering specifications only specified 4 shims per rotor when it should have been 12. . .
These are merely quality control issues that will improve, over time, as production increases and improvements are implemented.

My profession is major appliance repair.
And, every year, manufacturers try something new.
Then, every year, manufactures have to clean up their mess.  :)
Like back in the mid 80's when GE refrigerators had compressor issues.
The company had to replace almost ALL the compressors under warranty which nearly put the company out of business.
Same goes for cars. There always seems to be a recall of some type for some issue or other.

The question is:
Will the company fix their problems, handle customer complaints, and back their products?
I have no problem with companies making mistakes. But a failure to communicate can be a big issue.
The question is: Will they answer to complaints and correct their errors including reimbursement, for customer damages, when the customer incurs out of pocket expenses fixing their (the company) errors.
So far; I am up to about $30, for a tap and makeshift shims, but I get to keep the tap (which I may never use again) so not sure what the actual damages are.
And this is forgiven, anyway, because these are merely incidentals for building a totally experimental device.

But there does appear to be some communications issues between www.quantamagnetics.com and www.partdaddy.com
For example: The guy at quanta magnetics keeps forwarding customer email to partdaddy but there is little, or no, follow up.
Plus I sent two more messages, recently, regarding the adjusting nuts; but have yet to receive any follow up for that either. (communications issues)
I did, finally, try calling part daddy on the phone but the outgoing message said something about being on the road for a manufacturer's fair or convention.

So, for the remainder of this holiday weekend, I give them the benefit of the doubt.
But, if it starts to become clear this company is NOT communicating, backing up their products, or correcting errors then, yes, I will take the position this is the case.
Until then; I just want to build stuff. And, yes, I think it IS a little expensive, for what it is, and I could probably build it cheaper including taking shortcuts such as mounting coils on same plate as bearings, using off-the shelf hardware in lieu of custom machined hardware, two piece rotors that don't need magnet retainers, etc. It wouldn't look as pretty, and might be a little harder to service, but would, still, be the same functionality for less expense.

But, then again, it is a brand new, custom, product which typically IS expensive until mass production ramps up and designs are streamlined.
My first, four function, LED pocket calculator cost over $120, in 1970's money and ate lots of batteries, while these days promotional, credit card sized, calculators are now free. . . .

So; are manufacturers 'irresponsible' or is it merely 'growing pains'?

}:>


I can see you are having a lot more issues than me putting this thing together... Like I said before for the money is not worth it.... very irresponsible from these people to charge so much money and to get something with so many issues...

Offline marcx41

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6074 on: June 01, 2013, 06:59:43 PM »
Good morning Thestone and Scorch........Q3 is born. I am working on my replication of Q2, that take a lot of time, I am late .....step by step.....

 

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