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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 3790719 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6045 on: April 30, 2013, 12:11:31 AM »
Spent the day yesterday figuring out the 2.8 touchscreen functionality. Was having trouble getting the examples to work for the tft. Finally found the issue on a forum where I had to change a parameter in the H file for the arduino to recognize it. Works fine now.

In Naudins circuit, I have some questions.

The diode across the coil. It is set up to freewheel the inductor after the fet releases it. If thats the case, how does anything get back to the battery? The buz11 has an internal diode, that is in the proper direction to send current back to the battery. But does the bemf go to the battery via the internal diode, or does it just loop through the coil and D1?

I copied the circuit to show what I mean.

The one with the red lines show the current when the transistor is on and it flows clockwise, - to +, if we follow electron flow. Then typically when the coil collapses when the fet turns off, the coil current should still flow forward and through D1(blue lines counterclockwise) till dissipated into the coil. Hmm.

Will have to try it to see. Im going to use a coil that is in the 2mh range so I will have to shorten the on times as compared to the 5mh used by Naudin. I could use 2 in series, using the 2 to drive the rotor to get closer to 5mh. Will try some things.

Looks like adapting the touchscreen can be integrated to work in place of the lcd/button shield board. Might take a bit of time getting the program sorted out, but should work.

Mags

Offline dtard

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6046 on: April 30, 2013, 02:14:32 AM »
@Mag if you can walk into a radio shack buy all you can they are going to close around 200 places I have seen higher. Just saying ;)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6047 on: April 30, 2013, 03:09:25 AM »
@Mag if you can walk into a radio shack buy all you can they are going to close around 200 places I have seen higher. Just saying ;)
Yeah, I know. :'( When I was a kid, RS was my candy store. I quit candy for RS!!!  ;D

Now what?  lol   Eh, it was just convenient to go now and get what you need, when you need it. As for me, I always want it now when it comes to this stuff. Also Just wanted to let the people here know if they were interested in this stuff it could be had locally for about the same price as online. ;) While it lasts.


I should have gotten into these things way back. I learned machine and assembler, self taught, back with the TRS80 Color computer. 0.88mhz(1.69mhz with a POKE).  ;) MC6809 processor 4k ram expanded to 64kb.  :o :o lol Like 1980 or so. This stuff is very similar so it isnt a problem getting used to.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6048 on: April 30, 2013, 03:50:07 AM »
Ok, I see what I was missing. The 'other' schematic is on another page.

http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE24en.htm


Mags

Offline Thestone

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6049 on: May 01, 2013, 10:47:37 AM »
My new experimental kit has arrived.
The over-all appearance of the kit, and documentation, looks really good and does appear to be high quality including a substantial number of custom engineered, precision machined, components.

Some assembly required. . .

}:>

I got the same kit, but as you, I think the instruction are very vague, there is not theory of operation, there is no schematic, there is no instructions of how to orient the coils with respect to the magnets... etc etc etc..
 

Offline Thestone

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6050 on: May 01, 2013, 10:53:43 AM »
My new experimental kit has arrived.
The over-all appearance of the kit, and documentation, looks really good and does appear to be high quality including a substantial number of custom engineered, precision machined, components.

Some assembly required. . .

}:>

Maybe we can share notes.

Offline marcx41

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6051 on: May 01, 2013, 01:15:02 PM »
Hello The stone, the Q2 is two machines in one, the motor and the alternator.
For the motor all the magnets are on the same way, all north on the same side N/N/N/N/N/N.
for the atternator ....N/S/N/S/N/S.
What part of the schematic you don't understand ?

PS: Sorry for my enghish, I am french it is not to easy for me

Offline Thestone

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6052 on: May 01, 2013, 04:27:55 PM »
Hello The stone, the Q2 is two machines in one, the motor and the alternator.
For the motor all the magnets are on the same way, all north on the same side N/N/N/N/N/N.
for the atternator ....N/S/N/S/N/S.
What part of the schematic you don't understand ?

PS: Sorry for my enghish, I am french it is not to easy for me

Hello!! thanks for the message, I get the polarity of the magnets, and that it is a two part machine, Motor/Generator, but what I am having problems is with the motor, I cant get it to work. I guess I cant get the coils polarity with magnets correct...
He connects every two coils in parallel but in series at the same time, I made a schematic of it, I will posted next as I can only upload one photo file.

Offline Thestone

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6053 on: May 01, 2013, 04:35:04 PM »
Hello The stone, the Q2 is two machines in one, the motor and the alternator.
For the motor all the magnets are on the same way, all north on the same side N/N/N/N/N/N.
for the atternator ....N/S/N/S/N/S.
What part of the schematic you don't understand ?

PS: Sorry for my enghish, I am french it is not to easy for me

Besides I had to replace the main central bar, as it did not fit the magnet weel, plus, the screws one one side dont fit, I will have to find some...

Here is the schematic I made trying to make sense of what these people did... I wonder if it works at all... there it goes 5 K USD...

Thanks.

Offline marcx41

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6054 on: May 01, 2013, 06:24:37 PM »
ok, good resolution on this forum...I check it and reply here

Offline marcx41

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6055 on: May 01, 2013, 07:50:27 PM »
Oscar, I send to you a email, give a confirmation if you receive it, marc

Offline marcx41

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6056 on: May 01, 2013, 10:13:37 PM »
you have a new email

Offline Scorch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6057 on: May 02, 2013, 02:16:20 AM »
5/1/13

Just finished some more assembly work on the Q2.

I have been waiting for a while because the kit was supposed to include 24 paper spacers, for the magnet retainer cups, but there was an error in the specifications and it was shipped with only 8 paper spacers. And after multiple inquiries to company to find out when the paper spacers may arrive; there has been no response to this particular question.

So I decided to use thin, #10, rubber bands which work well as they do fill gaps where needed and spread out where not needed. And I even used the same rubber bands inside the magnet retainers to keep magnets from rattling around.

And, with regards to assembling rotors like these, there are a few assembly tips to consider-
-Make sure shaft fits, easily, through polycarbonate holes.
May have to sand this area otherwise a rotor, that is too tight on the shaft, is going to difficult to work with and adjust during final assembly.
-Assemble hub so that set screws 'point' between magnets.
Otherwise you will always be fighting magnets with ferrous hex wrenches.
-Assemble hubs with shaft in place, to ensure proper alignment of all four shaft holes, in rotor halves and hubs, before tightening bolts and screws.

And, oh yeah, the bolt holes in the hubs were not tapped all the way through and had to finish all those with my own tap.  The manufacturer is aware of this but I never saw any 'follow-up' email regarding this issue. So I hope other builders are not forcing the bolts, and chewing up hubs, possibly resulting in seized parts. . .

That is all for now with regards to this build.
Still need to install all the pigtail wiring on the stator plates.
And still haven't ordered the terminal strip or extra diodes needed to actually finish this thing as it is in the pictures.

Constructive criticisms-

-I am of the opinion all the extra flat washers, and lock washers, are not necessary when using steel cap screws which tend to 'lock' in place anyway when used on aluminum hubs. I did not use all these extra washers and would actually prefer to just install 8 bolts, of correct length, versus just four bolts and all the extra washers including flat washers that 'hang' over the edges of the hubs.

-I am also of the opinion I can do without the feet kit (and lack of holes to mount the feet) and would prefer other parts to actually be included such as the diodes and alternator terminal block needed to finish as pictured.

-I also wish I didn't have to go on a scavenger hunt to locate a spray can top and construct the switching commutator. I think this critical, precision, part of a commutator should already be fabricated and ready to use.

-Not sure why all the parts, including 24 magnet holders, and 24 paper shims, are needed to mount magnets in rotors. Seems, to me, that magnet openings could simply be machined into thicker, polycarbonate, disks and save on all this complication. Sometimes simpler IS better.

-Should be a better way to mount capacitors. Hot melt glue just didn't work well for me.

-Instructions mention: 'If no oscilloscope is available to locate sine wave peak, use an analog volt meter on coil output to detect general location of positive & negative peaks when SSR's light and adjust accordingly'.

But, if I DO have a scope, there is no suggestions, in the instructions, where the test points might be for alternator, and relay, signals nor is there any oscilloscope screen shot to indicate what 'optimum' signal might look like.  In other words, there is a BIG assumption everybody attempting to build the kit will know what to connect to and look for on their scope.

-There is no mention of rotor alignment with respect to motor rotor versus alternator rotor. Should the magnets all be aligned or offset from each other? These are very powerful magnets with very larger fields. So is there any specific concerns regarding these alignments?

}:>


Offline Thestone

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6058 on: May 02, 2013, 02:46:35 PM »
Well I found that after mounting all my coils and magnets for the motor part, did not worked... I was assuming that all the coils where wound in the same way, but found 3 of the coils wound with opposite force field, I had to turn the coils around to see if this will fix this, other wise, I will have to unwound each coil and make sure is wound the correct way. The only think I dont understand if you pay so much money for this kit, there is not instructions of any kind of how to assemble the coils with respect to magnets... and no support.

I think it will be better to machine cut the parts your self and go from there, will be much shipper and faster... I had to wait two months for the kid, there is no support, no one answer your questions, etc... just follow Scorth posting and you will get something similar or better.  >:(

Offline Thestone

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #6059 on: May 03, 2013, 05:58:34 PM »
Well after so many problems, I sold my kit as it is, in eBay for 1/2 the price... I will stick with Bedini Stuff. >:( this shit does not works.

http://youtu.be/FenTcWVAtyA

Conclusion : no support, not good documentation, no schematics, Lenz law everywhere, and no torque... hahaha what a waste of money....
« Last Edit: May 04, 2013, 12:29:28 AM by Thestone »