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Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 4343936 times)

Khwartz

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5715 on: March 13, 2012, 11:46:48 PM »
Wow! Great news to have all these directives, and thanks to Romeo to help back  8)


skaarj

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5716 on: March 15, 2012, 08:52:28 PM »
@marius

Go get some automobile induction coils. Also you will need some ferrite cores from MW radio receivers. And you will get high RPM under load. Discharge those coils via spark gaps to the secondary part (2000 volts) of some microwave owen transformers. In the primary connect a voltmeter and a load (bulb light).
At this time I cannot do this experiment (school problems) although I already have 7 pairs (14 pieces) of those induction coils and a complete romero/muller setup.
PM me if you need more details. If you like the idea and you are interested in experimenting, please document it and post here.

konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5717 on: March 15, 2012, 09:10:39 PM »
hi Skaarj
What do you mean by auto induction coils?
The regular common type of ignition coil in older type cars with ignition points in the distributor caps?
Or mabye do yo mean the more modern type, like in say newer VWs with a "coil" for each sparkplug?
Right now, I will assume yo mean to take the coils running off a Muller/romero mahcine, and run them to the LV side one of those ignition coils, the older type (also these are oil-filled too)
then on the HV side of the ignition coil, you make this HV output tto go into spark-gap that discharges to a MOT at "secondary" (HV side) of it, then the MOT kicks down voltage and you put load across the LV side...
Not exactly sure about the spark-gap method here - should it include a diode?
also not sure how to hook up the generator coils in a Muller/Romero up to the ingngiton coil exactly but it couldnt be too hard I would expect....can you upload a schematic when you have some free time???  Thanks

skaarj

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5718 on: March 16, 2012, 09:53:10 AM »
I am talking about old type ignition coils from cars with distribution caps. See the picture.

I did not think about your approach, to use the low voltage winding for moving the rotor and high voltage winding to collect the high voltage. I do not know if it works. Please take a look at the circuit in the attached picture. It is based on the pictures uploaded by mr. Marius.


My english sucks but I will try to explain as simple as possible. I also advice you to take a pen, a paper, to read this at least three times and to write down everything in your way, or else you will not understand everything 100%. You have to understand that this is not a child play.  If you think like a child and you do not take this serious, there will be no success and we will all keep spinning around our tails for years, like cats and dogs often do.

Now let's push the science. Here's what you have to do:

->  You move your rotor in your usual way - the same system you are using now. Hall sensors or bedini styles, whatever you use. One or two coils, does not matter. What is important - to make that rotor spin as fast as you can.  Please draw your rotor on paper with your system for spinning it. Do not add anything yet.


-> to collect the output voltage, you use two additional coils from automobiles. Or only one coil. Experiments will reveal the mistery.  Anyway, you will get A LOT OF HIGH VOLTS so watch your hands, it really hurts.  Those high voltages are of no use because it's low amps, but we must remember the formula:  P = U x I. P = power in watts, U = the voltage, I = intensity (amps).  You get some watts but the voltage is high. So we have to reduce this high voltage. 


-> Also, in all your experiment you noticed that when connecting a load, the RPM goes low. That is because of the Lenz force, which is B x I x L.   B is the magnetic flux between the magnets and the ferrite cores.  I is the intensity in the coils (how much energy is sucked by the load).  L is the induction value of the coil (in Henry).  I understand this sounds like "chinese language" but this is needed in order to get the things done. Romero found something he called "sweet spot". He added some magnets on top of his coils, to reduce that force. And he managed to influence the "B" (magnetic flux) in the coils,  in such a way that the value of the formula (B x I x L) got closer to zero.  Hard work to do that. I had a lot of talks with him and he agreed that mathematics is not his close friend.
   So we need to play smart. Modifying the flux in the coil is hard stuff. We need that "L" (induction value of the coil) because this is how the coil is made. What we can EASY modify is the "I" (intensity). 
We have big flux (B) - because of strong magnets, and we need that. Weak magnets sucks, no help here. We have big "L" (a lot of copper wire turns in the automobile induction coil - to get high voltage) and we don't want to change that. We have a small intensity (amps) because the copper wire is extremely thin (thicker wire = more amps and bigger coil, thin wire = less amps but smaller coil) - less than 1 amp, let's say 0.000y (we don't know the value of y).  We multiply something hign (B x L) with 0.00....   and what do we get? a small result. Which means a small Lenz force for "slowing" the rotor.
How do we calculate the power (watts) the coil provides?  P = U x I      P(watts) = 10000V x 0.000y(amps). Some of those "zeros" from the kilovolts will go away. More induction coils adds more to the output power in watts.
Please add one (or two) automobile coils on your drawing.


->  If you connect the output dirrectly to a load (bulb lights) you high chances of burning the induction coils. They don't like that. Also you cannot connect any electronics. Bad idea. We have to transform the power - same watts but with low voltage, so we can make good use of it. This is where the microwave transformers come to help.
   More mathematics. I know, f**k maths, numbers and formulas, but that's the best friend we have right now, and in schools they do their best efforts to make us hate it, to keep us stupid slaves who fill their bank accounts.
   Once upon a time there was a smart man called Nicolae Teslaru (best known as Nikola Tesla) who was born from romanian-origin parents (I'll smash your face if you say it's not correct  ;) ) and he invented the transformer. He also said that in ideal conditions, the same watts you put in the transformer in one side, are extracted on the other side. We do this using the microwave transformers like in the picture below.
If you connect the ignition coils dirrectly to the transformers, you will have a high chance of burning the induction coils, so you have to discharge that voltage using a spark gap. At this time I cannot tell how many transformers are needed. One, two, maybe three. You have to expect for the coils to burn so be careful.  At the output you will get the same watts, but they are made from a different I (amps) and different volts (V), but the output P (watts) is almost the same as the input power (you have some losses in the transformers and some influence from the distance in the spark gap).
Please add the spark gap and the transformers to your drawing.


Please take a look at the picture.
You connect the high voltage sides of the transformers in series, that's because you need to collect as much voltage as possible. Intensity (amps) in series circuit stays the same, and we need to keep it low or the coils will burn - that is because the heating is U (voltage) x square I (amps) x t (time). 
You connect the low voltage (220V) sides of the transformers in parallel, that's because you need to collect as much amps as possible. And here is where you connect your load. The induction coils will do their job, low lenz force, maybe acceleration under load, high voltage so watch your hands. The transformers will transfer the precious watts to your load. As soon as you get acceleration under load, you can start thinking romero style:  measure the output volage, reduce it again ( let's say a modern PC AT/ATX power supply which supports input voltages between 100 and 230V) and use this to power the system.

Also, in the picture I draw the magnets like crap.  You use your own magnets setup (please draw it on your paper). Test with same poles or different poles orientation. Be careful how you connect the coils. If you have the same orientation, the beginning of one coil goes to the end of the other. Also be careful how you connect the microwave oven (MwOwTraf) transformers.  The beginning of each coil is marked with a thick dot in the schematic.

Question:  have you ever play, or seen someone playing with a gasoline electric generator?  if you connect load, the RPM of the gasoline engine goes lower. That's because the generator inside has low voltage and high amps (after reading this carefully, you will understand there's a high lenz force).  I wonder what happens if the generator inside has high voltage, low amps, and the output energy is reduced with transformers?  First thing I am thinking is a very expansive generator (extremely dangerous if it comes from a chinese manufacturer), which... does not go low in RPM if a lot of energy is sucked out of it.

My project consists of 14 car induction coils (for collecting voltage) and 4 car induction coils for moving the rotor. The entire electronics consists of vacuum tubes, to work with very high voltages (and low amps,  so low lenz forces on the rotor moving circuit, and also low heat losses). The project is divided between papers and some boxes with parts, ignition coils, vacuum tubes, microwave transformers... and school sucks. Don't try this idea (yet), please use your own rotor-moving-system. Pictures after the weekend.

Warning: high voltages. Use some thick rubber gloves if you want to touch the monster while powered,  and be extremely careful. Nobody you love have a wish for the priest to come to your home.

If you guys need more details please let me know. I will do my best for help.

mr.uu

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5719 on: March 17, 2012, 08:39:33 AM »
Hi skaarj,


and where is the resonant part of your circuit? Shouldn't we see such on the secondary side of the transformers?


I doubt OU without resonance somewhere (at least once) in the circuit is possible...


And: do the ignition coils really work in series? Can the second one handle the output of the first one? No suprise, that you warn us of burnt coils ;). Solution might be to have an individual path (coil/spark plug/transformer(s)/secondary resonant circuit/dump into caps) for every coil. Hopefully there is an easier solution. Would be best if i am wrong and they can easily handle the voltage...




uu

chalamadad

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5720 on: March 17, 2012, 11:52:03 PM »
Hey everyone,

I've got my motor running very efficiently. Maybe just a little more than 1 watt input. I am using two fast switching Schottky diodes to collect the oscillation output. I connected the diodes like shown in this thread (thanks to ufopolitics). I am feeding the output to a second driving coil which is creating one spike to just overcome the drag. The second coil is also catching some of the oscillations from the first coil.

Happy with the result. I've made a short video.

Chal

skaarj

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5721 on: March 18, 2012, 08:50:57 AM »
@Mr_uu:   I am proposing a system with little heat losses to analyse the "speed under load" effect. This should work. Also, I am very curious if any of the guys decide to combine my method with additional magnets like Romero did. You are right, the next step after finishing the test is the resonance part.


Also - the "single induction coil" per microwave transformer(s group) is safer for the coil. Especially if the coil is made in the Eastern Europe ex-communist block. I draw that picture in a hurry. Thanks for pointing me this. I will remember that when I will start assembling my motor. Anyway, I am afraid my setup will look like a monster generator.

skaarj

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5722 on: March 19, 2012, 05:45:11 PM »
Marius,

Please watch this documentation carefully. That guy explains the setup I am proposing - the high impedance coil (high voltage). There are a lot of formulas on that board, and a lot of different coils are presented - so you do not have to do all the tests by yourself. Please notice the different coils. Here is what you need to have in mind:  high impedance (=high voltage output) coils do not decelerate the rotor. The video is in 5 parts + final setup.

1.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czXmazZ4obs
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXKO8r-3xrw
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQ9KLfusQPg
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7s4q5LdJJw
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYC0X5AP5Y4
6. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_UXcNMBGTA  (the video was shot on April 1st, they say this is the joke of God - we know it, we see it but we are told by all energy providers not to believe it)

______________________________
high voltage to low voltage reducing transformer with a "gain factor" (for @mr_uu - can this be the resonant stage you asked me to think of?):   Microwave transformers are built in conventional way, and I already pointed that there are some losses inside. Here is the setup I am thinking - I will build it after I finish all my school problems and my induction coils modifications on the dynamo.

  7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cka7qb0zoc8
  8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYYfGwU60_0
  9. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbRPCt1-WwQ
10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQq1-J8SOtc
11. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiu-dCe8bnA

Marius, leave this part (transformers) for me. I am not sure about what they say (yet). First I need to study some scientific publications from that PhD guy to get an idea of what he is talking about. You go and prove the speed under load theory - that is the most important part. If you need car induction coils just PM me, but don't try any high voltage coils from TVs or monitors - they are part of special resonating circuits that work with parameters different than a Muller dynamo - extremely high frequencies (kHz). To achieve those many thousands of pulses per second (15625 Hz for the standard television system, higher for video monitors), it means extremely high (and dangerous) thousand of rotations per SECOND in your rotor. You can't do that. Just for curiosity, I managed to push my muller setup to 6000RPM - 100 rotations per second (48 volts for the FET pulsing transistors, 4 pulsing coils, one FET per coil, one Hall sensor per FET and a lot of hall sensor positions tuning). My rotor has 9 magnets, so I got 900 pulses per one collector coil in one second. For those monitor/TV high voltage coils, you need almost to double that speed.

konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5723 on: March 19, 2012, 07:24:27 PM »
Hi Skaarj
 
Seemns like lots easier when someone builds a Romero/Muller machine to simply wind the coils with very very thin winds, and lots of turns, so they are HV coils in first place...then run them in series, so even more voltage....then run through spark gap, MOT etc eventually to the load....
 

skaarj

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5724 on: March 19, 2012, 08:04:08 PM »
Not really. Just to simply wind lots of turns on coils without separating the layers with insulating greasy paper - it's not enough. Voltage discharges between the layers will happen for sure if you aim to work with tens of thousands of volts. And old automobile coils were manufactured by following all these details. That Tesla guy did not chose to work with high amps and apparently his name is linked with a lot of legends. Since then, everyone avoided high voltage and embraced high amps (and money started to flow). I hope this setup will work.

konehead

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5725 on: March 19, 2012, 08:32:18 PM »
Hi Skaarj
the sell very high voltage insulated magnet wire made for HV use and also you can insulate the layers with teflon pluminb tape too
when you hook coils in series, then each coil needs to make only "so much" high voltage but the overall votlage is very high then because they are in series.
 

crazycut06

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5726 on: March 20, 2012, 01:46:39 PM »
Hi skaarj,
    What is your target input of your device? i don't think our romero muller replication cannot output such high voltages, thane hein's system is a bit different regarding coil construction...


Goodluck on your device! pls. post videos for us to see!




thevoice4you

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5727 on: April 17, 2012, 09:11:22 PM »
Hi all,  ;) first post here, please to meet you all, this seems to be a good place to ask some opinions and a few questions. I made a resume on the following link about free energy not really being the main problem but storing it so take a look and your opinions are certainly appreciated.
http://www.view-tronics.com/mymindtwist/freeenergy/index.html
As I am in the process of building a system on the NEOGEN DYNAMO ! Question, how many watt is the DYNAMO able to produce at velocities between 500-1000 and 2000-3000 RPM or more ? That's it for now, another thing I just read somewhere that Bill his daughter died but is this true ? Best regard. Gery

truesearch

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5728 on: April 17, 2012, 09:48:15 PM »
@thevoice4you:

Can you post photos of your build and the progress you are making? Also what difficulties and problems you have?

Best of luck!

truesearch

thevoice4you

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Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5729 on: April 17, 2012, 10:51:03 PM »
@thevoice4you:

Can you post photos of your build and the progress you are making? Also what difficulties and problems you have?

Best of luck!

truesearch

Well nothing for the moment as I am accumulating the info for a proposal that I have to do for the investors. The pilot project would be build a small container as it is going to be used to power a beach restaurant. http://www.claytonpower.com/products/lithium-ion-battery/ The container will house Compressor, tanks and a lithium battery power supply that will be used to make compressed air.   This power supply is charged by 2 wind generators and solar-panels.  Outside wind generators and solar-panels with micro inverters. energy.http://enecsys.com/products/installation_video_en.php http://vengerwind.com/v1turbine/
The idea is to use the MULLER DYNAMO only as the output power supply keeping it on a steady rpm with a regulated airstream depending on the load. Anyway will be posting the project when it progresses. thanks for your reply. ;)