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### Author Topic: Muller Dynamo  (Read 4105089 times)

#### Khwartz

• Hero Member
• Posts: 601
##### @Koenhaed and all - Taking at the top of the sinus versus ZPE node point
« Reply #5535 on: January 28, 2012, 05:00:01 PM »
Hi Kone!

I've just read something that make me think about what you advise to take the power to feed the cap in Muller's type dynamo:
Quote
"Zero Point Energy?

Such a "sink" has to be at a lower energy state than the surrounding medium and, for the energy to continually flow into it, the energy must be continually pumped out of it. Additionally, this "sink" must maintain a lower energy state while meeting the power requirements of the load attached to it. Electrical energy-watt-seconds-is a product of volts x amps x seconds. Because the period of oscillation does not change, either voltage or current has to be the variable in this system's energy equation. Bifilar wound coils are used in the system because a bifilar wound coil maximizes the voltage difference between its turns, the current is then minimized.

A coil in our system, then, will be set into oscillation at its resonant frequency by an external power source. During the "zero-point" portion of its cycle the coil will appear as one plate of a capacitor. As the voltage across the coil increases, the amount of charge it can siphon will increase. The energy that is taken into the coil through the small energy window (zero-point), call it what you will, appears to be the key to the success of this system.

It is at this zero-point where energy is condensed into positive and negative components of current. When energy escapes from the "sink" the magnetic field collapses and a strong magnetic quake is created in it's wake. A properly tuned system can capture and convert radiant energy in such a prescribed arrangement."

And yes, at top of sinus waves (but like at the bottom :/ ) were are at the limit of "the tow components of current" and you do look for BEFM, "the magnetic field collapsing and a strong magnetic quake".

What do you think?

Regards.

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5536 on: January 28, 2012, 08:47:17 PM »
Hi Khwartz
Well there is the exttaction, of power from a cap, and there is the filling up of the cap in voltage, so it has some power to extract.
then power in the extraction of the cap is how fast it can discharge to load such as how many discharge-events per second, and what the cap size is in UF, and what is the voltage in cap before discharge, and after discharge.
the power you will have in cap in first place depends upon how quickly the particula size of cap will fill up to whatever voltage you want it to be at...
sinewave peaks at least for coil shorting, is where you want to fill up a cap since you get most voltage in cap and at the fastest rate so you have most  power in cap.
the "zero line" they talk about can be two things - the zero point of current, or the zero point of voltage,  as seen on a scope  -  the sero-point will be the point exactly inbetween the pos peak and neg peak if thinking voltage with typical AC sinewave as an example....
When you create oscillations/reinging with a coil short, or a spark gap, then you make another mini-AC sinewave of oscillaitons, also with their own peaks and zero points to consider in sort of a hyper-frequency....tapping into that is where you get to exponential power increase - this is what Ismael Aviso does in his MEG and other techs....

#### Khwartz

• Hero Member
• Posts: 601
##### @Koenhaed and all - Power and frenquency of extraction cycle
« Reply #5537 on: January 29, 2012, 11:33:43 AM »
Hi Khwartz
Hi Kone

Quote
Well there is the exttaction, of power from a cap, and there is the filling up of the cap in voltage, so it has some power to extract.
I got that, thanks, "the 2 stages"

Quote
then power in the extraction of the cap is how fast it can discharge to load such as how many discharge-events per second, and what the cap size is in UF, and what is the voltage in cap before discharge, and after discharge.
ok, so are you ok with that formula:

P = 0.5 * C * EÂ² * fÂ²
with
P: power [Watts, or Joules/sencond],
E: voltage [Volts],
f: frequency of the charging-discharging cycles [Hertz]?

Quote
the power you will have in cap in first place depends upon how quickly the particula size of cap will fill up to whatever voltage you want it to be at...
Understand that. But you didn't answer me about the link I've shared to you about the nice effect one have had while adding a relative big cap in term of voltage, but not in terms of capacitance, to a set of existing cap of lower voltage (6 times less around) but of higher capacitance. While doing this, his motor speeded-up without any power supply while it was not the case before he made this change. His theory on this is that the high voltage cap pumps faster the BEMF and help the set of less voltage but higher capacitance to feed faster, something like that. What do you think? Does it fit with the experiment you had with you replications? and was it what Romero did?

Quote
sinewave peaks at least for coil shorting, is where you want to fill up a cap since you get most voltage in cap and at the fastest rate so you have most  power in cap.
Would verify the theory of having high voltage cap could pump faster the high voltage produced at the peaks?

Quote
the "zero line" they talk about can be two things - the zero point of current, or the zero point of voltage,
Do you mean that current-phase in not late to voltage phase, while a out-put of coil is concerned?  I mean you look to say the nodes are in same phase... what says the scope usually?

Quote
as seen on a scope  -  the sero-point will be the point exactly inbetween the pos peak and neg peak if thinking voltage with typical AC sinewave as an example....
Looks logic, but what about the current-zero-point, is that really same time? wouldn't depend on the Henry value of the coil and even of the value of the cap which is shorten with when charging stage?

Quote
When you create oscillations/reinging with a coil short, or a spark gap, then you make another mini-AC sinewave of oscillaitons, also with their own peaks and zero points to consider in sort of a hyper-frequency....tapping into that is where you get to exponential power increase - this is what Ismael Aviso does in his MEG and other techs....
Thanks to precise that Kone
Would you say it's like in my attachment?
Regards.

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5538 on: January 29, 2012, 11:34:47 PM »
Hi Khwartz
ok, so are you ok with that formula:

P = 0.5 * C * EÂ² * fÂ²
with
P: power [Watts, or Joules/sencond],
E: voltage [Volts],
f: frequency of the charging-discharging cycles [Hertz]?

DK: In very very general terms it is "ok", but you need to use all this in that formula I put up:
1) the farad value of capacitor is divided by two
2) the voltage is not some "straight" voltage figure, but is what the SQUARE of the maximum volts MINUS the SQUARE of the minium volts is, so its the voltage-drop you look at, not just the voltage
3).and also the frequency is the frequency of discharge-events PER SECOND....all this stuff I mention that needs to be included is meant to properly convert JOULES release of capacitor into WATTS .
Quote<blockquote>the power you will have in cap in first place depends upon how quickly the particula size of cap will fill up to whatever voltage you want it to be at..
Understand that. But you didn't answer me about the link I've shared to you about the nice effect one have had while adding a relative big cap in term of voltage, but not in terms of capacitance, to a set of existing cap of lower voltage (6 times less around) but of higher capacitance. While doing this, his motor speeded-up without any power supply while it was not the case before he made this change. His theory on this is that the high voltage cap pumps faster the BEMF and help the set of less voltage but higher capacitance to feed faster, something like that. What do you think? Does it fit with the experiment you had with you replications? and was it what Romero did?

DK: I did not read the link and am not going to either, since I think that author is completely full of crap which is only my personal opinion (I know him and have bad stories about cant be repeated here)
but it is true the the UF value of cap is very important in whatever you are doing, especially since small UF value has very little resistance, while big UF has lots of resistance and the resistnace changes too, as the cap fills also...and spikes and oscliiations can be of such huge voltages, (off the scale) that you must always use HV caps and diodes too, even when you dont think they could help
Quote
sinewave peaks at least for coil shorting, is where you want to fill up a cap since you get most voltage in cap and at the fastest rate so you have most  power in cap.</blockquote>Would verify the theory of having high voltage cap could pump faster the high voltage produced at the peaks?
DK: Its not a matter of pumping "faster" with HV cap, you jsut NEEDthem  to be of a HV level high enough to  contain all the HV stuff...pumping faster is alot to do with the UF value of the cap - at least in coil shorting...romero didnt use coil shorting remember...he did something different...not sure exaclty what it was and I dont know if he does either! it just worked...

Quote<blockquote>the "zero line" they talk about can be two things - the zero point of current, or the zero point of voltage,</blockquote>Do you mean that current-phase in not late to voltage phase, while a out-put of coil is concerned?  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif) I mean you look to say the nodes are in same phase... what says the scope usually?DK: the zero points and peaks of voltage and current are not "usually" in the "same place" and the current-shape is not "usually" going to resemble exactly the voltage shape either....depends on so many things what the scope-form is going to look like - so I cant say what it is going to look like as depends on cores, magnet strength, postitioning, rpms, caps pulsewidths magnet-coil configuration, what you are doing in first place..... etc etc etc - important thing is to know what it looks like with scope so you can record it for later testing and teaching of what you did to others...

Quote<blockquote>  as seen on a scope  -  the zero-point will be the point exactly in between the pos peak and neg peak if thinking voltage with typical AC sinewave as an example....</blockquote>Looks logic, but what about the current-zero-point, is that really same time? wouldn't depend on the Henry value of the coil and even of the value of the cap which is shorten with when charging stage?

DK: the "zero point" with the usual-looking AC sinewave CURRENT is actually same thing - right at midpoint between pos peak and neg peak but if DC, not AC , then its wherever zero current is on scope.
Zero point with either current or voltage is. is just where the scope reads zero there - no big deal really about it - some make "zero point" to mean something special and mysterious but to me that is all it means...but it is special to time things properly, using the zero-point as reference that is for sure.
Quote<blockquote>When you create oscillations/reinging with a coil short, or a spark gap, then you make another mini-AC sinewave of oscillaitons, also with their own peaks and zero points to consider in sort of a hyper-frequency....tapping into that is where you get to exponential power increase - this is what Ismael Aviso does in his MEG and other techs....

Thanks to precise that Kone (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
Would you say it's like in my attachment?</blockquote>

DK: I dont know where this attachment is...

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5539 on: January 30, 2012, 08:55:53 PM »
Hi Mariu
I was looking at your recent bidirecitonal driver circuit with the AC cap and the single diode - and noticed that your have NPN mosfets listed, but the mosfets are placed "positive biased" between the positive of the power supply, and the coil, when NPN mosfets are "supposed" to go between the coil and ground, not the coil and the positive....
I dont knwo if this is mistake or not in your drawing - if it does work like this it is pretty amazing and creative that is for sure.
Also the halleffects have their positive lead go to the source of the mosfet and being an NPN mosfet, that source should connect to ground of halleffect
maybe because of the bidirectional-nature of the mosfets everythign gets flipped around and it is working off the "backwards" energies? I dont know but it looks more crazy the more I look at it....
also, what is the model number of the hall effect yoru are using?
mabye that ozone you smell is the diodes in  mosfets or halls getting toasty as they work backwards??
Mabye the backemf is so strong since it IS "running" off the backemf forces???
Maybe the majority of the power is actually coming from the 9V battery? when you are runing at only 16ma, then mabye the circuit says lets take power from the 9V?...

#### mariuscivic

• Full Member
• Posts: 203
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5540 on: January 31, 2012, 03:12:44 AM »
Hi Mariu
I was looking at your recent bidirecitonal driver circuit with the AC cap and the single diode - and noticed that your have NPN mosfets listed, but the mosfets are placed "positive biased" between the positive of the power supply, and the coil, when NPN mosfets are "supposed" to go between the coil and ground, not the coil and the positive....
I dont knwo if this is mistake or not in your drawing - if it does work like this it is pretty amazing and creative that is for sure.
Also the halleffects have their positive lead go to the source of the mosfet and being an NPN mosfet, that source should connect to ground of halleffect
maybe because of the bidirectional-nature of the mosfets everythign gets flipped around and it is working off the "backwards" energies? I dont know but it looks more crazy the more I look at it....
also, what is the model number of the hall effect yoru are using?
mabye that ozone you smell is the diodes in  mosfets or halls getting toasty as they work backwards??
Mabye the backemf is so strong since it IS "running" off the backemf forces???
Maybe the majority of the power is actually coming from the 9V battery? when you are runing at only 16ma, then mabye the circuit says lets take power from the 9V?...
I have checked again and everything is like in the drawing.I dont know much about electronics but works just like this.
I realy dont think that the extra power comes fron the 9V battery since i power the hall with 4xAA 1.2V 650mA recharcable battery. They discharge faster when i connect the 100ohm resistor. If i dont use the 100ohm and use the 10K the batteries lasts a week.The ozone smell is gone couse when high bemf spikes occurs it shorts the turns on my coil. I had two coils that produced ozone and both are damaged(no teflon in there). There is nothing heating in this circuit; the 100 ohm resistor gets a bit warm but only worm; not hot ( that is becouse it shorts the signal from the hall with positive).
The hall sensor comes from a very old computer keyboard ; it has a hall for every button; on it has written BS 057 (B-from Beta) .
Please try this circuit and see how it works.
Today i have made another rotor with 24 NSNS. There is something that i dont quitte understand:
-when the rotor is spining it takes 70mA.
-when i disconnect the hall, the power is cutoff
-in this moment the ampmetter shows ''minus'' 160mA returning curent to the battery and the rpm drops faster (lens)
I never had this result before .

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5541 on: January 31, 2012, 08:11:48 AM »
Hi Mariu
OK thanks for the answers...that has to be craziest drive coil circuit in the world....I dont think the halls I have will work so I'll look around for the type you have... I tried tonight to get speed up with AC cap in circuit across drive coil but it didnt work....going to try the 10K and 100ohm trick next time with bidirectionals..
I did check bidirectionals vs regular single mosfet in side-by-side test as drive coils -  and there was 100rpms more with bidirectionals (IRFP460mosfets) and the backemf/recoil that I pull out into DC cap with single diode is very good and this does speed up the motor about 50rpms as the backemf is taken out.
Also played with the magnets behind the cores, and got from with no magnets 380rpm - up to 970rpm....then I messed with it some more and got it up to 1200rpm I think tommorow its going to be at 1500rpm I predict since I jsut got somr new magnets in mail today and I need some more for rest of coils on bottom plate....
still same draw of 100ma and 12V at either 380rpm or 1200rpm...
try magnets behind the cores in your machine now - couldnt hurt -
your new machine looks really good...
Maybe you should  disconnect the halleffect right after the motor pulse - all those magnets must make more power than the drive coil takes in so who knows you might be able to loop it with see-saw circuit where you use the two motor coils seperately:
drive coil A connects to cap A and knocks rotor around, while at same time drive coil B works as generator (hall effect disconnected) and  fills cap B
then drive coil B connects to cap B and knocks rotor around, while at same drive coil A works as generator  coil (now its hall effect disconnected) and so drive coil A fills cap A and so on over and over....

#### mariuscivic

• Full Member
• Posts: 203
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5542 on: January 31, 2012, 10:20:50 AM »
One small corection: is not 160mA, is 120mA charging current when disconecting the hall.
This mosfet driving circuit works perfect even if you change the polarity of the driving battery but you must invert the diode too or remove it. It will also spin in the other way too.
I'm still trying to feed the hall from the drive battery but no succes so far.

#### Khwartz

• Hero Member
• Posts: 601
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5543 on: January 31, 2012, 08:46:57 PM »
Hi Khwartz
Hi Kone
Quote
thanks.
Quote
ok, so are you ok with that formula:

P = 0.5 * C * EÂ² * fÂ²
with
P: power [Watts, or Joules/second],
E: voltage [Volts],
f: frequency of the charging-discharging cycles [Hertz]?

DK: In very very general terms it is "ok", but you need to use all this in that formula I put up:
1) the farad value of capacitor is divided by two
2) the voltage is not some "straight" voltage figure, but is what the SQUARE of the maximum volts MINUS the SQUARE of the minium volts is, so its the voltage-drop you look at, not just the voltage
3).and also the frequency is the frequency of discharge-events PER SECOND....all this stuff I mention that needs to be included is meant to properly convert JOULES release of capacitor into WATTS .

Ok, so the "practical" formula becomes:

P = 0.5 * C/2 * (Vmax - Vmin)Â² * fÂ²
with
P: power [Watts = Joules/second],
V: voltage [Volts],
f: frequency of the charging-discharging cycles [Hertz = cycle per second]?

And thanks for precise the difference here in theory and the praxis.

Quote
"the power you will have in cap in first place depends upon how quickly the particula size of cap will fill up to whatever voltage you want it to be at..
Understand that. But you didn't answer me about the link I've shared to you about the nice effect one have had while adding a relative big cap in term of voltage, but not in terms of capacitance, to a set of existing cap of lower voltage (6 times less around) but of higher capacitance. While doing this, his motor speeded-up without any power supply while it was not the case before he made this change. His theory on this is that the high voltage cap pumps faster the BEMF and help the set of less voltage but higher capacitance to feed faster, something like that. What do you think? Does it fit with the experiment you had with you replications? and was it what Romero did?

DK: I did not read the link and am not going to either, since I think that author is completely full of crap which is only my personal opinion (I know him and have bad stories about cant be repeated here)
so, I'm confused because I've just posted you the ref of a post of Stephan on his work. I'm sorry, my intention was not to remember a bad story.

Quote
but it is true the the UF value of cap is very important in whatever you are doing, especially since small UF value has very little resistance, while big UF has lots of resistance and the resistnace changes too, as the cap fills also...
Very nice to know that too! So would you say that is better to have ten cap of 10 ÂµF in parallel than 1 of 100 ÂµF?

Quote
and spikes and oscliiations can be of such huge voltages, (off the scale) that you must always use HV caps and diodes too, even when you dont think they could help
ok.

Quote
sinewave peaks at least for coil shorting, is where you want to fill up a cap since you get most voltage in cap and at the fastest rate so you have most  power in cap.</blockquote>Would verify the theory of having high voltage cap could pump faster the high voltage produced at the peaks?
DK: Its not a matter of pumping "faster" with HV cap, you jsut NEEDthem  to be of a HV level high enough to  contain all the HV stuff...pumping faster is alot to do with the UF value of the cap
Many of little ÂµF but for largest cumulative capacitance? (and highest voltage?)

Quote
- at least in coil shorting...romero didnt use coil shorting remember...he did something different...not sure exaclty what it was and I dont know if he does either! it just worked...
I do remember his vids, I've seen several times, but I didn't the details of what he did!

Quote
<blockquote>the "zero line" they talk about can be two things - the zero point of current, or the zero point of voltage,</blockquote>Do you mean that current-phase in not late to voltage phase, while a out-put of coil is concerned?  (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/huh.gif) I mean you look to say the nodes are in same phase... what says the scope usually?DK: the zero points and peaks of voltage and current are not "usually" in the "same place" and the current-shape is not "usually" going to resemble exactly the voltage shape either....depends on so many things what the scope-form is going to look like - so I cant say what it is going to look like as depends on cores, magnet strength, postitioning, rpms, caps pulsewidths magnet-coil configuration, what you are doing in first place..... etc etc etc - important thing is to know what it looks like with scope so you can record it for later testing and teaching of what you did to others...
Ok, but normally, the current is late-phased compared to the voltage; isn't it what you read on your scope? (what ever form it could have), but phased with the BEMF? and when current is shifted of 90Â° we are even supposed to have no "active power" but only "VAR"?

Quote
<blockquote>  as seen on a scope  -  the zero-point will be the point exactly in between the pos peak and neg peak if thinking voltage with typical AC sinewave as an example....</blockquote>Looks logic, but what about the current-zero-point, is that really same time? wouldn't depend on the Henry value of the coil and even of the value of the cap which is shorten with when charging stage?

DK: the "zero point" with the usual-looking AC sinewave CURRENT is actually same thing - right at midpoint between pos peak and neg peak but if DC, not AC , then its wherever zero current is on scope.
Yes, of course, I didn't express myself well enough, sorry. I mean compare to "zero-point" of the voltage curve on the scope. Needs so to have both on scope to read the possibility of the phase-shifting...

Quote
Zero point with either current or voltage is. is just where the scope reads zero there - no big deal really about it - some make "zero point" to mean something special and mysterious but to me that is all it means...but it is special to time things properly, using the zero-point as reference that is for sure.
Very understand that.

Quote
<blockquote>When you create oscillations/reinging with a coil short, or a spark gap, then you make another mini-AC sinewave of oscillaitons, also with their own peaks and zero points to consider in sort of a hyper-frequency....tapping into that is where you get to exponential power increase - this is what Ismael Aviso does in his MEG and other techs....

Thanks to precise that Kone (http://www.overunity.com/Smileys/default/smiley.gif)
Would you say it's like in my attachment?</blockquote>

DK: I dont know where this attachment is...
It was supposed to be with the post! lol I'll try again; it's supposed to be a link. (I've checked, that attachment is just here below "MULLER_DYNAMO 120128-1416...")

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5544 on: February 01, 2012, 07:42:09 PM »
Hi Khwartz
You got the cap discharge formula wrong.
its;
Farad size of cap / 2
X
(max voltage before discharge SQUARED)   MINUS  (minumum voltage in cap SQUARED)
this is what you got wrong - you need to square them FIRST, before subtracting the minimum from the maximum voltage.
X
discharge events PER SECOND = WATTS
that attachment doesnt really have any meaning as far as the way to do peak coil shorting, since you load caps first, with NO RESISTANCE from the coil-shrot ringing, then hit load with caps when caps are disconnected from the coils,,,so coils NEVER see any resistance, except for the cap's resistance itself,  the swtiching resistance, and the diode's resistance.
The only time you "see" any current is when caps finally hit load... - there are two seperate events - 1; fill cap and  2; discharge cap.....filling cap has no resitance in fact it can be a "resonate condition" with right size cap too (!!) ...so you arent going to see any "current" on a scope while filling a cap (as long as cap has no resitanc across it)
Where you will see current on a scope is only when cap hits the load - and during this time the coils are disconnected, so it puts all the engineers in a fuddy since they cant do the normal "lump resistive load" to check for power output with resitacne across the cap "all the time"....the engineers  will have to figure the power from the joules-release from the cap into the load...(what that formula is for)

ten 10uf caps are same as one 100uf one really no difference howeve you could do somthign trick like fil caps in series and unload in paralell or vice versa thats somethign to think about...as when in series they are less resistance....

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5545 on: February 01, 2012, 08:00:54 PM »
Hi Mariu
I experimetned with my bidirecitonal mosfet circuit; (two IRFP460s and a 4421 driver chip and halleffect etc...)
And tried to put an AC cap in the same size as you how in your video, across the coil hoping for a speed-up and less draw but this didnt work at all...it did nothing.
Also tried the 10K resistor on the left mosfet, and 100ohm on right - this did nothing at all....no effect (testing 3ohm coil pulsing around 4 magnet rotor in attractive mode)
tried the diode off only the right side mosfet, back into battery or cap - this kills everything...so no good either...
what does work good for me anyways, is a single steering diode into DC cap to catch the backemf/recoil, with the diode coming off the "non-ground" DRAIN lead of the bidirectional mosfets (the swithing is between the coil and the ground, so one of the drain leads is on the ground of the circuit)
This makes the motor run alittle faster and I get huge voltage in 750uf cap very fast...so its a "pure gain" situation.
anyways looks like the driver chip really makes things complicated if trying to replicate your circuit and its performance so I think driver chip will need to be left out in order to do it....

my theory on your circuit (just theory) is that you have shortened the pulse widht with the two differnt size resistors across the gates and source leads.....probably the one ont the right with the 100ohm resistor turns off first, and  that is why that is the one with that diode attaching to it...and probably you had a too-long pulse width before, and when you do your tricks, the pulse widht is much shorter to where it "should be", so it runs much better faster with less draw.......
I also think (theory) that the AC cap would be better off to be some steering-diodes off the coil into caps then caps into load...so you could still get speed up, and less draw, like the AC cap does, but instead of getting "only' speed up and less draw, you could get speed up, less draw AND have some power sitting in a DC cap, ready to hit a load with so you have a power-output too as added bonus...

#### mariuscivic

• Full Member
• Posts: 203
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5546 on: February 01, 2012, 09:24:42 PM »
With the 100ohm resistor the pulse is shorter but as i see it works only in driving the coil. When shorting the coil, the 100ohm resistor has the same effect as 10k.
With  my new 24mags rotor i could not have the speed up effect with a cap attached to the coil.This effect is present only on my small hdd rotor.
Still playing with coil shorting; i have this bifilar twisted wire coil that gives me coll wave on the scope. No other normal coil gave me this long oscilation. There is 150-160V out on the FWBR but when connecting a cap , it fills up to 300V. In this present setup, shorting brakes the rotor with 10mA (12V;55mA - 1550rpm)

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 462
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5547 on: February 02, 2012, 08:03:34 PM »
hi Mariu

If you go to ebay type in 44A 500V mosfet and you will find these:
thats a really good price for them - try 4 or 5 in paralell to improve your coil shorting performance.....complete lack of any lenz law lugging I am convinced now is from very very short pulse width - .25 millisecond or less at 60hz sinewave - a ratio of somehting like that will have no effect at all on the rotor speed; i tested this recently.
those mosfets listed above have a resistance rated at only .12 ohms - just think what it wold be with a few in paralell....
When you have that very short pulse width, also now you dont have much time for the coil shorting effect to happen....so you dont want to lose anything with any resistance in the swtihcing...
Aircoils work best with coil shorting too - are you using ferrite cores in your coil short experiments that lug abit?
The ferrite even though it is fast core material will cause some harmonics bouncing against the coil that gets shorted - its best to use aircored coils, so the coil-ringing only is all that will fill caps....

#### Khwartz

• Hero Member
• Posts: 601
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5548 on: February 02, 2012, 09:43:45 PM »
Hi Khwartz
Hi Kone

Quote
You got the cap discharge formula wrong.
its;
Farad size of cap / 2
X
(max voltage before discharge SQUARED)   MINUS  (minumum voltage in cap SQUARED)
this is what you got wrong - you need to square them FIRST, before subtracting the minimum from the maximum voltage.
X
discharge events PER SECOND = WATTS
Very thanks for having corrected me
so, I correct it with ma own writing:

P = 0.5 * C * (VmaxÂ² - VminÂ²) * fÂ²
with
P: power [Watts = Joules/second],
V: voltage [Volts],
f: frequency of the charging-discharging cycles [Hertz = cycle per second]

Is that right now?

Quote
that attachment doesnt really have any meaning as far as the way to do peak coil shorting, since you load caps first, with NO RESISTANCE from the coil-shrot ringing, then hit load with caps when caps are disconnected from the coils,,,so coils NEVER see any resistance, except for the cap's resistance itself,  the swtiching resistance, and the diode's resistance.
The only time you "see" any current is when caps finally hit load... - there are two seperate events - 1; fill cap and  2; discharge cap.....filling cap has no resitance in fact it can be a "resonate condition" with right size cap too (!!) ...so you arent going to see any "current" on a scope while filling a cap (as long as cap has no resitanc across it)
Where you will see current on a scope is only when cap hits the load - and during this time the coils are disconnected, so it puts all the engineers in a fuddy since they cant do the normal "lump resistive load" to check for power output with resitacne across the cap "all the time"....the engineers  will have to figure the power from the joules-release from the cap into the load...(what that formula is for)
Looks to me that is a QUIETE AMAZING statement and principle de know! It's making thinking to what Tom Bearden said about is solid state device, that he loads the cap without any current, and even cut the load duration to avoid any creation of current, saying that has a relapse time, a very short time but depending of the nature of the conductor, when "virtual electrons", "outside of the wire" and "at the speed of light", fill the cap. Did you know that? Because could make a difference to use this datum about the material, cause he said that copper was abut the worst for this, and if better material for the conductors, I should say "the managers of the virtual electrons" (for me would have something with the "vector-potential" of Richard Feynman) could multiply its efficiency. What do You think?

For the attachment, even if doesn't fit with the Muller's Dynamo way, would you agree on the statement I made on, about the respective power of each?

A conjecture : WE DON'T READ ANY CURRENT ONLY BECAUSE THE ELECTRONS MOVE FORWARD AND BACK TOO FAST, AND THAT THE RESULTING CURRENT LOOKS ZERO; like if such measurement instruments couldn't read so fast a displacement of charges...

Cheer.

ten 10uf caps are same as one 100uf one really no difference howeve you could do somthign trick like fil caps in series and unload in paralell or vice versa thats somethign to think about...as when in series they are less resistance....
[/quote]

#### Khwartz

• Hero Member
• Posts: 601
##### Re: Muller Dynamo
« Reply #5549 on: February 02, 2012, 10:28:13 PM »