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Author Topic: Bring Electicity from H2O  (Read 15063 times)

Offline mxx

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Bring Electicity from H2O
« on: April 04, 2005, 09:01:18 AM »
is it possible?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Bring Electicity from H2O
« on: April 04, 2005, 09:01:18 AM »

Offline h2o2go

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2005, 09:28:28 PM »
Not quite sure of your question? ?:-\
By adding electricity to H2O (Electrolysis) it is split into H and O ions which will form H2 and O2
This is reversable
If H and O are combined water is formed and electricity is produced (Fuel Cell)
You are welcome to visit my Website
http://home.comcast.net/~apdynamics/APD.htm
There are some examples of this process working

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005, 11:20:04 PM »
Not quite sure of your question   :-\
By adding electricity to H2O (Electrolysis) it is split into H and O ions which will form H2 and O2
This is reversable
If H and O are combined water is formed and electricity is produced (Fuel Cell)
You are welcome to visit my Website
http://home.comcast.net/~apdynamics/APD.htm
There are some examples of this process working

Hi,
interesting site you have !
You can also try KOH as electrolyte, it might be
even better than NaOH.
What is your "lab rat" ?
Is this a motor ?

On how much Watts into the latest electrolyzer
are you able now to run your car motor ?
Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2005, 11:20:04 PM »
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Offline h2o2go

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2005, 10:12:03 PM »
Hi Stefan
Thanks for the good word RE: my site
I need encouragement to work on the site occasionally in stead of in the workshop? ;D

KOH would be a more efficient electrolyte but to get to 100A @ 4V I am running 3 cells in series from 12 V and tuning the electrolyte solution and electrode size to produce a 4V drop per cell.? What I use for electrolyte is not relevent as long as I can get the combination right.? If I added more cells, I may try that or H2SO4.

The "Lab Rat" is a Ford Festiva with 1300cc engine.?
The objective is to run the car on H2 generated on board via battery management process I am developing in conjunction with the H2 generation.? Success so far is teasingly close to viable, but not without lots of challenges.? I have captured a fuel delivery system from a Propane powered forklift engine of about the same size and am modifying for H2.? This should bring me some quantim of efficiency ???

Watts: I guess the answer is, 12V X 100A = 1200W which is maybe 1.5 HP which is probably what it takes to run the engine at a poor idle? ::)

THANX
Dave

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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2005, 02:23:55 AM »
I see, thanks for the info.
Well, maybe try to run the H2 + O2 mix with air in a ratio of about 
30:1    air: H2 +O2

This means much more air than oxyhydrogen gas !
Then you also get a slower bruning of the gas and
it will not damage your cylinders due to detonation.
ALso you have to change the sparking timing of the sparkplugs
to get the right timing of the spark occurence at the right shortly
after TDC...

Good luck and please keep us informed about your progress.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2005, 02:23:55 AM »
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Offline h2o2go

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2005, 03:21:18 PM »
Stefan
You have me intriqued with your suggestion of a 30:1 mixture.? As anyone who has tried to develop on demand h2 knows, the problem is producing enough gas. 30:1 would mean less gas.? All the research data I can find indicates that 24:1 (by weight) is the minimum concentration for combustion, but challenging paradigms is what we do, right?? 24:1 by weight is a lot of H2.? I am wondering if using H2+O2 lightens the O2 side of the ratio, allowing less H2.? That is something that has gnawed at me for a while - what would happen if I got the A/F ratio right??? I would appreciate any thoughts you would share, defendable or not.
As I told Ron (H2O Motor) I have abandoned using H2+O2 because of difficulty in managing combustion, but with the correct ratio ??
THANX
Dave

Offline rlm555339

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2005, 03:43:18 PM »
Gentlemen,

Let me throw this in the mix as well. 
Water is H20  (hydrogen, oxygen)
Acetone is CH3COCH3  (carbon, hydrogen, carbonyl)

Acetone is miscible with water.  If one put a small percentage of acetone in the water, would it also break down into it's individual elements like water?  Would this throw some carbon into the mix?  Would this provide more of a hydrocarbon-like explosion?  Would the added elements make the mixture more or less stable in chamber?

I know......I'm reaching with this but I'm looking for some way to improve the power.

Ronald

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2005, 03:43:18 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2005, 04:26:12 PM »
There was a guy on the watercar group about a year ago, who claimed to have a working
watercar and he said, the ratio of gas to air could be as low as 1 :30 or 1:34 when I remember correctly,
but I am not sure if he meant    H2 : air    or     H2+O2 : air.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline Kysmett

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2005, 04:39:00 PM »
acetone in its own right is flamable.  Even if you didn't break it down through electrolysis(and if you could, the carbon would settle toward the bottom or recombine with the oxygen to form CO and CO2), would the injection of a small ammount of acetone allow for a greater air - H2/O2 ratio?  Sort of like an accelerant.  Just a thought... a modified fuel injector would be perfect for atomizing it before the spark....so the air/fuel mixture is injected separately but at the same time as the acetone.

You asked for ideas....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2005, 04:39:00 PM »
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Offline rlm555339

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2005, 05:00:18 PM »
This is where I get lost.  I'm an electrician, not a chemist so I don't know what happens.  It seems to me that if acetone can be broken down diatomically into it's elements through the electrolysis process like water, then you would end up with 3 carbon, 6 hydrogen, and one oxygen.  Blend that with the 2 hydrogen and 1 oxygen from water and the mixture would be 8 hydrogen, 3 carbon, and 2 oxygen atoms.  So.......what does that end up being?  Burnable?  Flammable?  Explosive?  nothing?

Thoroughly confused,

Ronald

Offline Kysmett

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2005, 05:07:40 PM »
IF you could break it down(and I've never tried it) through electrolysis, the carbon as a solid would sink to the bottom, while the H2 and the O2 rise to the top to be collected arround the cathode and the anode.  You would have a hard time harvesting the carbon, and in any case, would not make it to the combustion chamber(I am an ex gas turbine technician, so I tend to speak in those terms, but the combustion chamber in a piston engine is the cylinder)  If you could get the H2 and O2 separated, then yes you get a lot more H2 than with just water.  The question becomes the cost of getting the acetone( and the energy lost in processing it) and the difference between that and the cost of water.  You would need a lot of it as well.

If, on the other hand you used it as an accelerant, increasing the ratio of air to fuel and still acheiving combustion, then it might be worth it in small ammounts to decrease the necessary H2 and O2 requirements.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2005, 05:07:40 PM »
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Offline h2o2go

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2005, 09:36:06 PM »
All
Are you ready for this one ??
I have been experimenting along similar lines of thinking as Ron, but approaching from the opposite direction.? In stead of acetone to catalize (?) the H2 combustion, I am trying to atomize Biodiesel, or maybe just Diesel fuel external from the engine, then add H2 in some proportion, to support the combustion.? This would allow high flash point fuels to be burned in a low compression engine.
Cheaper and easier to get than Acetone ??
My thoughts !

Dave

Offline cmichaelcouch

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2005, 04:56:06 AM »
Ron and Dave:

Have you guys check out the complete plans that are posted on theverylastpageoftheinternet.com?

I have a set of these plans and they seem very detailed.  There is another place where they are posted in a form that is easier to print but I can't remember where, maybe rexresearch.com?

Anyway, I haven't heard of anyone lately (or ever for that matter) attempting to replicate this exactly and it is supposed to work on any V8 car.

Michael Couch

Offline rlm555339

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2005, 10:48:47 PM »
If you are referring to the Spirit of Ma'at (#9) on www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com
I have my serious doubts this person ever actually tried it.

1.  He speaks of pulses using a 555 driving a IRF510 mosfet.  That mosfet has a 5.6 amp continuous drain current up to a max pulsed current of 20 amps @ 300 ?s cycles.  That's not even close to being "in the ball park" when it comes to amperages concerning electrolysis of any significance.  An IRG4p254S IGBT or a IRFPS3810 mosfet would even be challenged to do the duty required in this scenario.  Probably would have to go to a SOT-227 class of FET.

2.  He speaks of "when the pressure builds up to 30-60 pounds"................that in and of itself is pretty scarey if he's talking about brown's gas mix.  Depending on how big his reservoir is, he'll use that up pretty quickly with 8 cylinders.  My little one cylinder lawn mower motor sucks 11.304 cu in. a minute through it. ????  times 8?  wow!  and those pistons are twice as big around with a longer stoke so.........again with WOW!  That's a lot of cubic inches, my friend.  You can only dilute 2H2/O2 so much with fresh air or it's not going to explode so I wonder how much of that has to be actual electrolyzed gas?

I haven't tried this particular schema but in my short attempts with electrolysis, I have not found that frequency does any better job than straight DC for electrolysis.  If there is someone who can verify that frequency works more efficiently, and that this Spirit of Ma'at is the real deal, I'll build one tomorrow.  I need all the help I can get with fuel production.  So far with my project, I am drawing right at 40+ amps @ 24 vdc and I can only make around 1 liter a minute which just isn't even enough for my little lawnmower motor.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Bring Electicity from H2O
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2005, 08:12:39 PM »
I gotta say.....I LIKE the synergy here!

Fracturing h20 at or near the cylinder certainly seems promising.


Peace,

TS

 

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