Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Plug Heater

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 507979
  • *Total Topics: 15158
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 2
  • *Guests: 8
  • *Total: 10

Author Topic: Magnetism the myth  (Read 12163 times)

Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Magnetism the myth
« on: December 19, 2007, 02:39:18 AM »
You may find this interesting, there is no such thing as magnetism ;) just like tesla said, Its all electric baby yea!

Quote:
"Maxwell?s formulation, however, eliminated consideration of the angular component of the force between current elements. It also removed the most fundamental of Amp?re?s assumptions?the unity of electricity and magnetism?by introducing the concept of a magnetic field. There is no magnetic field in any of the writings of Amp?re, nor of his successors in electrodynamics, Carl Friedrich Gauss, Wilhelm Weber, and Bernhard Riemann. Magnetism, for them, is considered an epiphenomenon of electricity; it is the force of electrodynamic attraction or repulsion acting between circuits of electricity, called magnetic molecules (and which came to be known later as electrons)."
@http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/edit.html

or maybe this?
Quote:
"The discovery of the phenomena of electrical and magnetic induction had introduced a new element into the considerations of electrical law, not taken up in Amp?re's 1826 work. There thus existed, side by side, three seemingly valid descriptions of the electrical interaction: (1) the Coulomb-Poisson law, describing the interaction of two electrical masses at rest; (2) the Amp?re law, describing the interaction of elements of moving electricity, and: (3) a description of the laws of induction, elaborated by Emil Lenz and Franz Neumann. In his Fundamental Electrical Law, stated in 1846, Weber achieved the unification of these various phenomena under a single conception.

Instead of the mathematical entities, described as current elements by Amp?re, Weber hypothesized the existence within the conductor of positive and negative electrical particles. He assumed that the presence of an electrical tension caused these particles to move at equal velocities in opposite directions. If one regards an Amp?re current element as containing, at any given instant, a positive and a negative electrical particle, passing each other, then in the pairwise relationship of two current elements, there are four interactions to be considered. By the Coulomb law, these interactions, consisting of two repulsions and two attractions, cancel each other. However, the elementary experiments of Amp?re had shown that a motion is produced between the wires, implying the existence of a force not described by the Coulomb law. For example, two parallel conducting wires attract each other when the current in the two wires flows in the same direction, and repel each other when the opposite is the case. The situation is perfectly well explained under the Amp?re force law, when one takes into account the angular relationship of the respective current elements. However, Weber's unifying approach was to assume that the relative velocities of the electrical particles produced a modification in the Coulomb electrostatic force, to produce the resultant force between the wires. Considering all the configurations which Amp?re had examined, as well as those arising from the phenomena of induction, he was able to formulate a general statement of the Fundamental Electrical Law. This showed that the general law describing the force of interaction of two electrical particles, depends upon the relative velocities and the relative accelerations of the particles. The Coulomb electrostatic law thus becomes a special case of Weber's general law, when the particles are at relative rest."
@http://chem.ch.huji.ac.il/history/weber.html


So really magnetism doesn't exist it is electric, a Permanent Magnet is nothing more than moving electric charges held in alignment in matter. The scientific community is covering up Maxwells screwup, and we all know you can't give a nobel prize to a screwup, that would be embarrasing. :D
As well Wilhelm Eduard Weber and homopolar generator are two words no physicist wants to hear.

I have seen the devil and looked into his eyes and his name was vanity.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 03:00:23 AM by allcanadian »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Magnetism the myth
« on: December 19, 2007, 02:39:18 AM »

Offline z_p_e

  • elite_member
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 662
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2007, 03:49:45 AM »
For those interested, A. K. T. Assis has written dozens of papers mostly based on Weber's electrodynamics.



http://www.ifi.unicamp.br/~assis/wpapers.htm

Offline not_a_mib

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 88
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 03:55:03 AM »
An attempt at this sort of thing was posted a few months ago.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2485.0.html
It gives a direct force-law between moving charges.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2007, 03:55:03 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Mr.Entropy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2007, 05:26:32 AM »
In the excellent book "Causality, Electromagnetic Induction and Gravitation", Jefimenko shows that Maxwell's equations aren't entirely accurate, and, more importantly, don't describe the actual causes of the electromagnetic forces.

http://www.amazon.com/Causality-Electromagnetic-Induction-Gravitation-Gravitational/dp/0917406230

http://www.tfcbooks.com/mall/more/596cemi.htm

He also develops what have become known as Jefimenko's equations, which show how to correctly calculate these forces from the motions of electrons:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefimenko's_equations

In the book, he gives various equivalent formulations, including ones that don't make any use at all of a magnetic field.

Most important is that all of these formulations are causal -- nothing needs to measure fields instantaneously at a far-away points the way Maxwell's surface integrals do.

Other notable things in the book include a causal development and physical interpretation of the magnetic vector potential, and a fascinating explanation of how the conservation of momentum requires gravity to work a lot more like electricity than we thought it did.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

Offline nightlife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 06:31:32 AM »
Entropy, "Jefimenko shows that Maxwell's equations aren't entirely accurate, and, more importantly, don't describe the actual causes of the electromagnetic forces."

 Let me explain it for you then. A magnetic field is nothing more then a spinning frequency creating a vacuum that has only a resistance to its self as both a positive and a negative. Therefore, creating a positive, being the suction and a negative being the exhaust.

 It does however have a resistance to iron cores, some stronger then others. That resistance is only a positive resistance causing the attraction.

 That?s my theory. Now go to the thread "What is electricity?"

 It's amazing what a 9th grade drop out can teach you. That?s 100% pure common sense and nothing more.     
 
 Remember to always keep a open mind when trying to solve a problem and your common sense should lead the way to the solution.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 06:31:32 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Mr.Entropy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2007, 06:48:12 AM »
Let me explain it for you then. A magnetic field is nothing more then a spinning frequency creating a vacuum that has only a resistance to its self as both a positive and a negative. Therefore, creating a positive, being the suction and a negative being the exhaust.

Your words are meaningless.

Offline nightlife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1080
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2007, 08:31:00 AM »
Entropy, "Your words are meaningless."

 LOL, Thank you for those kind words and please think real hard about what my words mean before you say that to me again.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2007, 08:31:00 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2007, 08:30:58 PM »
Whoa ladies lets keep this thread polite ok :-\
Mr.Entropy you more than anyone should be able to understand what nighlife described, if not I will translate it to english for you.

Quote
Let me explain it for you then. A magnetic field is nothing more then a spinning frequency creating a vacuum that has only a resistance to its self as both a positive and a negative. Therefore, creating a positive, being the suction and a negative being the exhaust.

Quote
A magnetic field is nothing more then a spinning frequency creating a vacuum that has only a resistance to its self as both a positive and a negative
-A magnetic field could be considered opposing charges spinning around each other with a given period of oscillation (frequency), the centripital force of the spin could be considered a vacuum intrinsic to the charges.

Quote
Therefore, creating a positive, being the suction and a negative being the exhaust
- the inner positive proton in attraction to the negative electron creates as suction force as centripital force relative to the electron spinning around it, the outer electron also produces a predomenantly negative (exhaust) charge to surrounding charges.

Sounds a lot like a description of the relative forces in an atom if you ask me, you know the conerstone of physics ;D


Offline 0ne

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2007, 10:07:24 PM »
This thread is highly inaccurate and highly misleading...

Electricity IS MAGNETISM. Magnetism IS ELECTRICITY. They are both the same thing...

If magnetism doesn't exist, then does that mean all permanent magnets are holding electricity?? What comes first, electricity or magnets? Well since you can not make electricity without magnets, I would say, electricity is magnetism. DUH!

Magnetism is not a single force, it is TWO forces working together. When those two forces are separated and channeled through passages, they are called electricity. The only reason they seem different is because when magnetism goes from AC to DC, they have different characteristics, but in a way, there is no difference.

You can explain the exact reason why electric circuts work when you think of electricity as magnetism. Because magnetism can only work when it is channeled in a loop. Just like how electricity needs to be a closed circut loop.

Please read Ed Leedskalnins "Magnetic Current", he tells you experiments you can do to prove electricity is just magnetism.


p.s. Maxwell was a nobody. Ed Leedskalnin has physical proof of his findings... and so do the Egyptians. The Egyptians teach about magnetism.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2007, 10:07:24 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Mr.Entropy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2007, 03:44:52 AM »
Mr.Entropy you more than anyone should be able to understand what nighlife described, if not I will translate it to english for you.

I don't think so...

Quote
-A magnetic field could be considered opposing charges spinning around each other with a given period of oscillation (frequency), the centripital force of the spin could be considered a vacuum intrinsic to the charges.

- the inner positive proton in attraction to the negative electron creates as suction force as centripital force relative to the electron spinning around it, the outer electron also produces a predomenantly negative (exhaust) charge to surrounding charges.

I certainly understand what you are saying, but to credit that meaning to nightlife is a stretch.  After all, it's not quite right, is it?  You had to get a lot of stuff wrong just to make it fit.  You know that electrons and protons don't spin around each other as peers, for example, because the atomic nucleus is very much heavier than electrons.  You also know that the positive charges don't significantly contribute the the magnetic fields in either permanent or electromagnets -- it's all about the orbits and intrinsic spin of electrons.

You give your own meaning to nightlife's words the same way people fill in details from their own life to match the vague generalities provided by a fortune teller, or the way real events are made to fit a Nostradamus quatrain by being overly generous in the interpretation.

This is what nightlife said:

Quote
Let me explain it for you then. A magnetic field is nothing more then a spinning frequency creating a vacuum that has only a resistance to its self as both a positive and a negative. Therefore, creating a positive, being the suction and a negative being the exhaust.

I'm sorry, but it offends me that someone would pull this crap out of his behind, and present it in a condescending way ("let me explain it for you then") as some kind of revelation, while dismissing ("nothing more than") the excellent work of someone like Oleg Jefimenko.

A lot of good people like Jefimenko and Tesla, as well as the classical figures, have done a whole lot of really good work in figuring out what electricity and magnetism really are.  It isn't the kind of stuff you dismiss on a whim, to supplant with mumbo-jumbo.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

Offline Mr.Entropy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007, 03:56:12 AM »
What comes first, electricity or magnets? Well since you can not make electricity without magnets, I would say, electricity is magnetism. DUH!

I can make electricity with a chemical battery, a solar cell, a fuel cell, a beta-voltaic cell, a Wimhurst machine, a Van de Graff generator, or by rubbing my feet on the carpet.  None of these require magnets.

You have this one backwards, I'm afraid.  The magnetic field is created entirely by moving charges.  It can also cause charges to move, but there are many other things that can cause charges to move as well.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2007, 03:56:12 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline allcanadian

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2007, 06:18:48 PM »
@Mr.Entropy

I would say you are right in every respect and I knew you would catch my "spinning around each other " statement as well, I didn't correct it on purpose.

Quote
You give your own meaning to nightlife's words the same way people fill in details from their own life to match the vague generalities provided by a fortune teller, or the way real events are made to fit a Nostradamus quatrain by being overly generous in the interpretation.

I think this statement is very correct, this is what I do----this is what all of us do I think. The only reality we know is our own, and we have our own opinions and everything must revolve around our opinions whether we believe this or not. I have come to understand the greatest gift anyone could give me is there opinion, there perspective . Right or wrong I will accept everyones perspective as it relates to me, because I am the only "me" I know, I cannot truly understand "there" reality but I will listen and I will respect there opinion because it makes "me" a better person, it helps me understand the other perspective. As you say too many people push there opinion in a condescending way and I am afraid I am as guity as anyone in this respect, but I think we do this so we can be heard, so we can make our point.
In any case I do respect your opinion and I thank everyone here for being here . Im not sure we appreciate how unique we are for no other reason than just making an effort to be here in this forum when others would dismiss us as a bunch of crackpots.
A new year is almost here and my intuition tells me this is not going to be just another year, the winds of change are starting to blow in our favour. Personally I have found many of the answers I have been searching for thanks to many of the people in this forum, so I wish all of you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year.

P.S.--- Is magnetism a myth? Honestly I do not know nor could I say , but it sure makes one think doesn't it. ;)

Offline PhiScience

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2007, 07:06:41 PM »
 @allcanadian

  Well said,
All the theories concepts, and beliefs about energy and matter have some truth and some falseness. It is like a giant 3-D jig-saw puzzle with more than one piece that can fit in each place, we must move forward with an open mind trying all the different combinations until we get it right, that is very frustrating because you may have it almost complete down to the last piece but that piece does not fit and you need to start over. But have faith all has not been lost knowledge and wisdom has been retained.

I wish everyone a safe and pleasant Holiday.

Offline 0ne

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 123
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2007, 07:18:08 PM »
What comes first, electricity or magnets? Well since you can not make electricity without magnets, I would say, electricity is magnetism. DUH!

I can make electricity with a chemical battery, a solar cell, a fuel cell, a beta-voltaic cell, a Wimhurst machine, a Van de Graff generator, or by rubbing my feet on the carpet.  None of these require magnets.

You have this one backwards, I'm afraid.  The magnetic field is created entirely by moving charges.  It can also cause charges to move, but there are many other things that can cause charges to move as well.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy


I'm affraid you need to open your eyes and see that EVERYTHING IS A MAGNET! Protons and Electrons carry "electric charges", these "charges" create "electromagnetic fields". The potons and electrons themselves ARE SMALL MAGNETS.

Chemicals are strong magnets at a subatomic scale. Solar cells collect magnets from the Sun. Of course solar cells themselves are made of protons and electrons which are magnets. Heck even your feet, socks, and carpet are magnets, thats why when you rub them together you make "electricity", just like when you move magnets over a coil like a generator! Wow, YOU HAVE MAGNETIC GENERATORS ON YOUR FEET! JUST LIKE JESUS WHEN HE WALKED ON DIAMAGNETIC WATER! Did Jesus rub his feet on carpet before he walked on water?

Imagine this invention, an under water electromagnetic perpulsion system. No more sping blades, just a special eletromagnet!

hmm i should stop telling you the future inventions... I might scare you with teleportation, like Tesla did lol..

Offline PhiScience

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Magnetism the myth
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2007, 07:56:31 PM »
 @One

I am afraid you are right!
Well almost right.
What is a magnet made of, and why does it behave differently with different elements?
And what is electro made of in an electromagnet?
Are all magnets the same or are there different types of magnets? 

 

OneLink