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Author Topic: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :  (Read 17211 times)

Offline z_p_e

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2007, 12:53:29 AM »
Quote
BEMF is simply a transformation of voltage from one level to another. The energy level is not increased.
When you apply voltage to a coil it will conduct, radiate magnetic flux and get saturated.
When the voltage is taken of the coil it strives to maintain its voltage level.
In this process it flips the voltage stored in the coil. Positive pin will become negative and vise versa.
If there is no load to take care of the reversed voltage at will shoot sky high, multiplying many times,
a lot higher than the applied voltage, but the current level of the BEMF will decrease at the same rate.

So, simply put:
The BEMF = Input Energy - Losses = Output Energy in reverse. No OU to be gained here. Period.

I know this by fact because I use the the BEMF in my daily work when designing Switched power supplies.
Recycling the BEMF of switched power supplies is the reason of them reaching those high efficiencies of 90% or more.

Mem,

I already told you this several months ago on this forum. Why are you still perpetuating this BS?

THERE IS NO OVERUNITY IN INDUCTIVE KICKBACK....PERIOD!

Folks, listen to what Honk said, because he is 100% correct.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Evil Roy Slade

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2007, 01:21:25 AM »
Thankyou zpe and honk.

We know that using BEMF will not achieve the results the people here are looking for.
The problem is that the effects of BEMF can be spectacular depending on the load and how fast the inductor is switched off. And just like the night fireworks the reaction is 'OOOHHH  WAAAHH'

The conclusion then is 'There must be SOMETHING here!'

Yet another proof of:    'A little knowledge can be dangerous'

Unfortunately, it won't matter what we say. They will persist. The mind is a powerful force.

ERS

EDIT: BTW Back EMF has been understood for a long long long time.
Take your IC petrol engine for example.
The coil gets charged up, then gets switched off inducing a huge voltage across the spark plug contacts. And bang, you get a lovely little spark!

Offline Mem

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2007, 01:31:34 AM »
Mr. z-p-e
I don't pastulate formulas like you do. What I do is research and expereiments, results are  self evident.
You can choose to ignore or bs... That's your opinion, and you can do what ever you wish to do or say!

On the other hand, in the name of science and discovery new devices will continoue no matter what,
 you or others may say!
As it did before you were born and shall continue so after you are gone, too...

12 car battery can't turn 15 Watt AC bulb.
If a 15 Watt AC (wire resistant) light bulb glows brightly, as soon as I turn the switch then
you know there has to be voltage and amps to make that bulb glow.

Likewise Some times I use 130 VDC 2.5 HP PM MOTOR as a load too. Normaly this motor runs slowly
with 12 V car battery. When the b emf circuit is on, this motor starts to eccelerate to a very high speed.
 
The difference while 130 VDC 2.5 HP PM MOTOR runs with battery v/s b emf is it can't debunk!

As the saying goes: You take the horse around the world and you show the animal all kinds of
wonders and amazing things, but horse returns home horse again!

Let he who has an ear, hear the message and to him that hear's it more shall be given...
Mem.




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2007, 01:31:34 AM »
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Offline nightlife

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2007, 01:54:32 AM »
Mem, you brought up a very good point that most don?t understand. Most are thinking that once the source is used, the source then evaporates in to the air and or leaving very little behind. That is not the case and I have tried to explain ways to some here that they should at least try out.

 The biggest problem with people is that they don?t know what electricity even is. They want to produce it but yet they don?t have a clue what it is. Based on that, how in the heck can they find the most efficient way to utilize it if they don?t even know what it is. That is why I started the thread "What is electricity". We must first find out what it is and then move forward from there.

Offline z_p_e

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2007, 02:04:49 AM »
Mem,

You are seeing only what you want to see, and only what you are able to see with the eye-glasses you currently are wearing.

The problem is that evidently, you have no understanding of basic Ohm's law. You are using a 15W 110VAC bulb and a 130V DC motor as a means of certifying you have overunity, when in fact that proves absolutely nothing at all...even though you can light the bulb and turn the motor.

To understand what is happening, Ohm's law must be put into action. You can get large power output from a 12V car battery.......IF you know how. Let's use your lightbulb as an example to show you why the 12V battery does not light the bulb, but the 12V battery powering your inductive kickback circuit will.

Your 15W 110V light bulb has a resistance of about 800 Ohms. This is using the formula R=V^2/P. If you now connect this 15W bulb directly up to your 12V battery, you will only be able to dissipate 0.18 Watts in the bulb. That is 0.18 Watts ! Do you think that is enough to light the bulb? Of course it is not.

Do you know why high-end car audio amplifiers use special power supplies? The reason is because you are limited to how much power you can drive the speakers to with only a 12V supply. So what do they do to fix this problem? They generate a high voltage supply using switching power supply circuits, and will raise the supply up to about + and - 30 Volts DC. Now when driving the car speakers, they can achieve a decent power output.

It is exactly the same problem with your 15W bulb. It is meant to dissipate 15W with 110V input. You are only giving it 12V input. So now by using your inductive kickback circuit, you are creating a high voltage pulsed DC voltage which will light the bulb. Your circuit is an up-converter. Your circuit is a DC-to-DC converter. Call it what you want, the effect is there and the reason is now clear.

If you had the proper test equipment, you could measure the current from your 12V battery, and you would see that when connected directly to the bulb, there would be virtually no current there....only a mere 15 mA or so. Now connect your battery to your kickback circuit driving the lightbulb, and watch your current measurement increase to over 1 Ampere.

If you still can't see the light after this explanation, then you'll just be fooling yourself until you do. And that goes for the rest of the folks here that are buying into this falsehood.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2007, 02:04:49 AM »
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Offline nightlife

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2007, 02:31:33 AM »
 z_p_e, I am glad you brought up the speaker. Do you and or others know what actually powers a speaker?

 Has anyone ever actually tested the EMF and or collapsing fields voltage from a speaker?

 Has anyone ever checked the voltage created by just vibrating the speaker cone?

 Has anyone checked the voltage created the EMF by just vibrating a speaker?

 That would be a very interesting experiment if it has not been done yet. If it has, does anyone have a link to a site with those findings?

 I know what actually powers a speaker but I still would like to know some answers to the other questions. Those findings may lead some in to another way of producing electricity.

Offline Koen1

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2007, 02:47:31 PM »
The MEG is using a magnet as power source. It's not relying the BEMF to provide OU.
And so far there is no proof of the MEG really working.

Really? So that's why they got a patent on the thing, right? Because it was never proven to work?
Perhaps you should read up some more...

They got their US patent granted in 2002 already. To get a patent you need to have proof.
(see http://l2.espacenet.com/dips/bnsviewer?CY=ch&LG=fr&DB=EPD&PN=US6362718&ID=US+++6362718B1+I+ for patent)

I do wonder why we still haven't seen any MEGs for sale though... Seems to me you can start production not long after getting the patent,
and the first commercial versions should be available 5 years later... Strange... You think they got an "offer they couldn't refuse"? ;)

Oh, and @ z_p_e: your explanation sounds correct... However, if he's powering a 110V AC bulb, then not only does it mean he is upping the voltage from 12V to 110V, nearly 10 times as high, which according to normal transformer rules means the 12V input DC should increase almost 10 times in amperage, like you have stated, BUT
will a 110V AC bulb light up continually if no AC is put in?
will the bulb emit light when powered off 110V DC pulses, in the same way as it would when powered off 110V AC ?
I don't think so...
Now I don't know if Mehmets bulb actually does light up just like it would when hooked into a 110V AC feed,
but if it does, I would assume it wasn't DC pulses powering it...??

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2007, 02:47:31 PM »
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Offline Honk

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2007, 03:25:28 PM »
They got their US patent granted in 2002 already. To get a patent you need to have proof.

You don't need proof of any kind to get a patent. That's an old misconception still hanging around.
It's not an actual device your are patenting, it's the idea of a certain device or function you patent and protect.
I know this by fact because the company where I work file several patents applications every year without ever building any units.
But having a big patent portfolio will give a company something to deal with in case of a lawsuit or some other situation.

Offline Schpankme

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2007, 03:50:02 PM »
Transverse and Longitudinal electric waves.  Lab demonstration with Eric Dollard, Tom Brown and Peter Lindemann. Specially focusing on Tesla's longitudinal electricity.

http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=-721789270445596549

- Schpankme

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2007, 03:50:02 PM »
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Offline Koen1

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2007, 03:57:14 PM »
Really?

I thought they had instated the demand for proof around the 1950s after they had figured out that half of the patents granted since 1900 were totally useless because the described technology simply didn't work. And they had granted the patents because there was no need for proof back then...

Are you really saying they reverted back to that practise? So you don't actually have to show any form of proof to get a patent?
That seems more than a little odd to me...
What then differentiates a patented design from a fantasy? Nothing? You can once again patent designs without any more proof than your own fantasy and wishfull thinking?

I thought actual science was involved in reviewing a patent application, and that it had to pass quite rigid testing before any patent was granted...
At least, when I want to patent my invention in the Netherlands, I need to show them a working version along with documented measurements and supporting theory. They will not give a patent based solely on a set of measurements and theory. Which makes sense; anyne can make up a set of data that accord with some theory and appear to show the claimed effect, in order to dupe the patent office into granting the patent.

Think about it, in the case of the MEG. Just imagine you work at the patent office, and here comes Bearden with a folder full of data and formulae, and says to you "We have invented a motionless electromagnetic generator, that extracts usable electrical energy straight from a permanent magnet. Give us a patent please?"...
You really deem it logical that you (or any other patent guy) would reply "Ah but of course sir. Hundreds of people have tried to do that and failed in the past, but since I like your beard so much here you go, here's a patent, no questions asked. No, no, we don't need to see your device actually producing the claimed over unity output. If you say so, we believe it. Have a nice day!" ??

Offline Honk

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2007, 04:12:37 PM »
I don't think you have really performed any patent applications yourself.
Your are still just leading people into misconceptions about the patent process.

Myself I have at least one invention that was granted a patent.
It was simply a shielding box made of aluminum to minimize the magnetic radiation
from a high frequency and high voltage Backlight inverter, used in LCD displays.
I can tell you that I did not have to show the patent office any box or working unit.
I just sent in the drawings along with the applictions forms.
Voila, 1 year later, Patent granted. No questions asked, No device shown. Period.

And this is everyday practice. There is no need for a working device.
When an idea of a new invention is discovered then there is no time to loose by building it.
If this was the case, then others could outrun you in the race to finish a working device.
Fortunately the patent offices don't require this anymore, perhaps in the old days, but not nowadays.

This topic have been discussed before here at OU forum.
And other people with real knowledge about the patent process will tell you the same thing. Period.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2007, 04:12:37 PM »
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Offline Koen1

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2007, 05:00:37 PM »
Ok, if you say so...

But then what happens if the invention turns out not to work?

And are you talking US patents, EU patents, or International patents here?
I do know that the scope for patents is much wider in the US than it is in the EU...

Perhaps in the US you don't need proof, but in the EU or certain EU countries you do?

Seems to me that a patent without any proof is much like a prospectus without a product... ;)

Offline Honk

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2007, 05:29:16 PM »
But then what happens if the invention turns out not to work?
Nothing, nobody cares, there is no follow-up. The idea is forgotten and buried.

And are you talking US patents, EU patents, or International patents here?
I do know that the scope for patents is much wider in the US than it is in the EU...
There might be countries or cases that require closer examination, if they have the time....
But it's not really a physical thing you patent, it's the rights to an idea.

Perhaps in the US you don't need proof, but in the EU or certain EU countries you do?
I live in Sweden. No need to show any "hardware" here.

Seems to me that a patent without any proof is much like a prospectus without a product... ;)
Just like an idea. Most ideas stay ideas and never get actualised.
But if you have the rights to an idea then you can demand royalities if someone wants to use it.

Offline z_p_e

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2007, 06:28:41 PM »
Oh, and @ z_p_e: your explanation sounds correct... However, if he's powering a 110V AC bulb, then not only does it mean he is upping the voltage from 12V to 110V, nearly 10 times as high, which according to normal transformer rules means the 12V input DC should increase almost 10 times in amperage, like you have stated, BUT
will a 110V AC bulb light up continually if no AC is put in?
will the bulb emit light when powered off 110V DC pulses, in the same way as it would when powered off 110V AC ?
I don't think so...
Now I don't know if Mehmets bulb actually does light up just like it would when hooked into a 110V AC feed,
but if it does, I would assume it wasn't DC pulses powering it...??

Koen,

How well a bulb lights has nothing to do with whether it is an AC or DC source powering it. The "perceived quality" of the light may be different (AC flickering for example), but the effective radiated light is dependent only on RMS power dissipated in the bulb. You can have equal RMS power in a bulb whether it is sine wave, square wave, pulsed DC, or pure DC....it does not matter one bit. All that matters in regards to heating elements and bulbs (a form of heating element) is RMS power.

Less RMS power = less radiated light or heat. Simple as that.

There is no such thing as an AC or DC bulb. They will all work with both if they are incandescents. Just do not exceed the RMS power rating.

Offline supersam

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Re: fact ! we are all here to find a F E device and make it runing ! so... :
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2007, 06:34:21 PM »
@mem,

i wish i could show you my system, i have a system running on a regular automotive 12v dc battery that is providing all of my lighting needs, runs my refridgerator, while at the same time, provide different power for several different voltages for electronic divices i use daily, from 4.5 volts dc all the way up to my 120vac, television!!! all this and it can still provide power for my drill, and saw simutaniously!!!  so never stop dreaming.  how about a schematic of your home device.  my system uses all off the shelf products, and once you understand ohms law you too can do all of these seemingly miraculous things really very easily.

lol
sam

 

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