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Author Topic: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?  (Read 388678 times)

Offline innovation_station

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2008, 03:48:13 PM »
 8)

nice

groundloop

its ALL FAKE lol

it cant work

hummmm......

ist     ;D

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Offline one

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2008, 04:28:17 PM »
Quote
It is  started  by  giving it a spin..

hi gary,  are you describing another motor concept than what's in the video?   In the video he drives the generator with the motor, and I intend to do the same thing at first.   I just left off the motor from the drawings since I'm assuming its obvious.    But what you say is interesting.  I certainly hope to improve upon it and make it self running without a "motor" per say, but it will have the motor function incorporated into it, like the Adam/Bedini motors etc..    Right now the chalenge for me is to engineer the magnetic circuit so I get as high an inductance as possible, so I won't need a box full of capacitors.   I'm trying to push the envelope towards High RPM,  lots of poles, closed magnetic circuit with very small air gap.  I have a set of lightweight neos and that's what I want to use, it will probably be disc shaped.

It would be so awesome if at some RPM the thing started running itself, so I can disconect the motor, sort of like the rusian experimental testbed for the SEARL device. 

EM

Oooopppssss

I guess I am guilty of posting   without   going back and  checking  on  the rest of the thread .

My posts were based  on    the posts on this page  .......and your reply 18 in particular.


I  did  watch the   vidio  when it was first posted here.     

There was  to much   that didn't  seem right about the  video .

I also  didn't  recognise  it as a generator  based on resonance .
The  video  doesn't  say it is  based on resonance . it says   you have to know  enough about  different kinds of electon  flows    and only one type of electron flow is taught in  school . 

one  reason  I was skeptical   about the  generator  is  the  start  up and  shutdown steps .     the  guy  running it   had to   screw in a light bulb  to see if it was running .   

If it is  based on  resonance it  starts to make  more sense .      If  the builder didn't bother to gear the start motor   to the right speed   it could run all day and   be near  resonance but not  quite into resonance.




I am glad that you  watched  the video  with more of  an open mind than I did. 


About  your  engineering  on  this

Can you  guess  how  long it will take ? 

My plans  for  a  generator  based on resonance  call  for  adding  radient energy  into the mix .......I am not progressing  very  fast .
   It will take at least a couple months  to test my ideas. 

gary


Offline EMdevices

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2008, 04:40:44 PM »
nice drawing groundloop!!   IS, it's not fake until proven !  Do you have information that it's fake?


Ok, here's a schematic of a simple generator connected to a capacitor for striking resonance.
 

A coil rotates between two magnets forming the generator. The magnets produce a horizontal flux. We also connect a  capacitor to the windings and try to strike resonance by speeding up the motor to the right RPM.   

Now, here's what's interesting,  flux cutting is maximum when the loop is HORIZONTAL.  At this position we induce the most voltage in the loop.   While the voltage is building up, we see in the graph that the induced, or generated voltage is in phase with the voltage due to resonance.   It's like pushing a swing to build up the oscillations.   

Note that there is also resistance, and this resistance can also model power that is being extracted.  When we reach a maximum oscillation condition, the phase of the driving voltage will change from what is shown in the graph, however, we can see that the voltages add up (they're in phase), and if we extract just a little current, the in phase voltage drop across the resisitor (hence the real power extracted) will be contributed to by BOTH VOLTAGES.   This is now EXTRA power !!!    We are using STORED UP energy, or magnetic field  to do work. We need to build up the resonance first, then we "cash in"  

A controler is needed to make sure we don't kill the oscillations by overloading the generator, or else we are back to UNITY.

EM

P.S.  gary,  I'm glad I picked up on the resonance.  He mentioned it when he talks about the capacitors and mentions the 100 Hz frequency.  Then it all cliked for me  :)

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2008, 04:40:44 PM »
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Offline innovation_station

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2008, 04:46:31 PM »
@ EM

that was a JOKE LOL!!!!

HOW CAN IT BE FAKE ?!?!?!?!

IST

Offline EMdevices

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2008, 04:57:19 PM »
IS,  there are lots of ways this can be fake.   I'm just taking it at "face value" for now, and I'm assuming it's not.

Here's another way to realize how the energy is created.    Let's think about a swing.    If VOLTAGE is analogus to the SPEED,  then we can see that if we build up the swinging oscillations, the swing will have a larger speed past the rest position.  (The "speed" of voltage in a circuit is actualy due to the rate of change of magnetic flux, so the more flux you get to "swish" back and forth the better)   Now, if CURRENT is analogus to the FORCE on the swing,  we realize that if we try to take energy from the swing at the zero position, we put a retarding force on it, but it's moving fast and we have lots of energy (high voltage due to "speed" x current).   But we've slowed it down a bit.   At the top of the swing however,  we apply a force (at lower speed, hence voltage) and restore the speed of the swing with minimal energy.   

Anyway, it's a usefull analogy, although I have doubts if we can duplicate it with a mechanical swing or pendulum. (there is that guy who claims a more efficient water pump using a pendulum, so perhaps the ideas work in the mechanical realm as well)

The main idea however is that we build up energy and extract it in a controled manner.  We "invest" some energy in the device and then take out dividents on it.   In a nutshell we are also making use of gaging.   We invest at the right time and extract at the more advantageous time.    Buy low sell high  :)

EM

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2008, 04:57:19 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2008, 05:42:33 PM »
@innovation_station,

I have made a prototype based on my drawing.
The prototype has only three coils to see if the systems work or not.
The motor generator runs and has a output on the magnetic cross coupled
coil. So I conclude that is IS possible to build the motor generator shown in
my drawing. May drawing is NOT a joke, the 600W generators discussed MAY be a joke.

Groundloop.

Offline innovation_station

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2008, 05:53:48 PM »
nice groundloop


 ;)


i will lable my words*as sarcastic* from now on ......when ment to be lol


ist

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2008, 05:53:48 PM »
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Offline Koen1

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2008, 06:00:11 PM »
Groundloop,

so what's the measurements on that prototype?
How much do you put in and how much does it put out?

Does it look like a full version (with not just 3 test coils)
could produce more output than input?

I'm kind of missing that here... Sure it may do something,
but does it do what we want it to do? ;)

Offline EMdevices

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2008, 06:22:16 PM »
nice testbed groundloop.  nice and small and compact !!

are you trying out this concept of resonance?   you should.

EM

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2008, 06:22:16 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2008, 06:23:13 PM »
@Koen1,

My motor as it is now is only 1/4 of the drawing. I have found that the method of closed loop
magnetic pathways IS working. First (look at the circuit drawing) the magnets is coupled
to each other through the Iron rotor. This will close the magnetic path on the back side of
the magnets. The result is a stronger magnetic field from the magnets. This means one can use
smaller magnets than a normal pulse motor. Now the motor coils is also connected together
with Iron. By doing this the magnetic field from the magnets is free to travel through the iron
thus closing the magnetic path. But since the rotor is rotating the magnetic field in the outher
iron ring will alternate. This will produce power in the generator coils.

I must add that a great source for Iron rotors can be found in AC powered fans.

My setup as it is now is NOT over unity. It runs from a 12 Volt 7 A lead acid battery with the output
looped back to the battery. The current it uses is very low. The battery is depleted very slowly.

Groundloop.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2008, 06:31:26 PM »
@EMdevices,

No I have not tried resonance yet. What I initially was building was a high speed Bedini charger.
My motor coil has three windings. I soon discovered that (for some unknown reason) I could
not get out much back emf voltage from the third coil. The motor ran at breath taking speeds
but the output was very low. So I added a second coil to slow down the motor a bit. This coil
did charge my batteries. Then I got the idea of the closed loop magnetic field motor generator
and added a third coil with a Iron laminate from coil 1 to coil 2. This coil did ALSO produce
an output. So I guess that my idea of closed loop magnetic path in a motor does work.
It has not given me free energy so far though.  :D

Groundloop.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2008, 06:31:26 PM »
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Offline EMdevices

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2008, 06:38:02 PM »
your system is actually optimal for trying the resonance,  and that is because it has a closed flux path, and high inductance.

what you probably have to do is to add another isolated coil for the motor function,  and leave the 3 coils you now have as they are.  You actually want to connect them in series to get lots of turns  (inductance goes up)  Or perhaps connect only two of coils in series and use the third to extract energy, etc..

Then get lots of capacitors and connect them in series with the higher inductance coil and speed up the motor to try and hit resonance.    Your small design might have problems though.   A larger diameter wheel will have a higher frequency for the same rotation if you can fit more magnets on it.

just some idea to try...

EM

Offline Groundloop

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2008, 07:24:31 PM »
@EMdevices,

Attached is a drawing of the initial motor. The four Neos is flush with the Iron rotor in the center. The rest of the rotor
is plastic and the magnets is secured with a lot of glue inside the plastic. The rotor is 63 mm in diameter and 15 mm
thick. I use 8 Neo magnets 14 mm x 8 mm stacked two and two thus making a NSNS rotor. As I said before, the
output from the L3 coil is disappointing low. I think the main reason is that the motor coil is very effective when driving
the rotor. Another reason is that the transistor does not completely shuts off since the rotor is so small and the rpm is
so high. Just a theory.

I'm not able to test out more coils on this motor right now. I have run out of magnet wire and ferrite cores.
But I see no reason for others to try. The rotor is from a AC fan with the fan blades removed. I have also
removed the fan coils and laminates. This leaves a great double ball bearing rotor with a round laminated Iron
rotor in the center, One then glue on magnets to get a pulse motor. The modifications one have to do on a AC
fan of this type should not take more than 10 minutes.

The exact type of fan used is: NMB Model 4710PS-23T-B20, 230VAC, 1Phase, 50Hz or 60Hz, 9 Watt at 50Hz 8 Watt at 60Hz.

Groundloop.

Offline EMdevices

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2008, 07:37:55 PM »
Here's some usefull equations:


To find the electric frequency given an RPM:


f = [RPM rot/min] x [1 min / 60 sec] * [N ecycles/rot] = ecylces/sec = Hz

where, N is the number of magnetic poles on the circumference of the motor and each produces one electric cycle (ecycle).  Remember, each pole, whether "N" or "S", will create one cycle of +/- voltage swing in a coil.   As the flux increases in the coil, the coil repels it by lenz's law, then it reaches full strength and the d phi/dt is zero, so no voltage induced, then as it retreats and decays, the coil tries to maintain the flux (again Lenz's law) so reversed polarity occurs.

Example:

RPM = 6000,  N = 10

f = [6000 rot/min]  x  [10 Ecycles / rot]  x  [1 min / 60 sec]  = 1000 Hz = 1 KHz

Now the trick is to create a resonant tank at 1KHz, by adding capacitors.

Assume the motor coils have an inductance L = 10 u H = 1e-5 H

We can calculate the capacitance we need as follows:

C = 1 / [L * (2 PI f)^2] = 1/ [ 1e-5 * (2 * 3.14 * 1000)^2] = 2 530 uF
 

Now, if you hook up that much capacitance to the coils, and spin the motor at 6000 RPM, you will have a matched condition where resonance will start to build up.  Watch out, energy galore !!!   :)

EM

P.S.  that's nice drawing groundloop. I recognize the old Bedini circuits I played around with. I'll have to think about how to integrate the motor and the resonace capacitor in the same unit so I won't have to use an external motor.

P.S.  it should be aparent that it might be beter to increase the inductance so the capacitance is smaller.  wire tends to be cheaper  :)    also a closed magnetic path will increase the inductance considerably.   And finaly, the capacitors need to be AC,  not electrolitics.  I know the temptation is there to use electrolitics, but they are meant for DC and will overheat and blow up or bust and vent.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: "Self Running 900 Watt Fuelless Electrical Generator" Is this new?
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2008, 07:53:11 PM »
@EMdevices,

The biggest problem is to find the Henry value of my coils since I do not have a meter for measuring inductance.

To find the RPM is easy, just hook up the scope to the motor coil and measure the pulse repetition time.
Then I use f = 1/t. Knowing that my circuit will only fire on the North magnets passing I then
divide that value in two and then divide by 60. This gives me the RPM.

Groundloop.

 

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