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Author Topic: joe cell  (Read 12367 times)

Offline raburgeson

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joe cell
« on: December 14, 2007, 11:53:37 PM »
So simple an low tech everyone should have one. Well I gave my last one away and need to make more. Have you watched all the videos? I would like to bring up some stuff.

First one video recommends you use a insulation that does not conduct static electricity. That was a good recommendation. Another was to rough up the surface to get more output. A castlated bottom the provide more edge surface. 2 neutral plates to cut the amperage needed in half (verses 1 neutral plate).

One video shows running the cell disconnected down to 1 volt and the experimenter said if you leave the car battery hooked to the unit in a short period of time the cell would drain the battery. However if after the cell is energized a 1 1/2 volt battery can be hooked up to it and the battery would not discharge and the cell would continue to operate. (This I haven't tried yet but I will) I have to build some new ones.)

Stainless is necessary if the cell is to be used as a water purifier. 316 stainless is recommended. It is also recommended that you heat treat the stainless to remove all magnetism. MY first question is will a degausser work just as well for this purpose?  Aluminum will work in a joe cell. My first new joe cell I make will be to see how cheap I can make a good one. I am going to clamp a old piece of pipe onto a table for an anvil. Cheap pop comes with nice thick aluminum cans. I am going to take a set of sheet shears, a hammer, and a rivet punch and build the cylinders. This should explain the anvil.

They all show you running a car, I think this is a useful fuel, it must be mixed with air to use it and a vacuum must be placed on the cell for operation. I am going to attempt to provide both requirements by using a simple squirrel cage. Sealing the cage with a plate that has a fuel port and a air valve on it should do the trick. My goal here is to light a burner for home heating and try to make a gas lamp perform correctly. If I can get the air fuel mixture right I should have no problems.

I think it is worth the time, the joe cell is impervious to electro-magnetic pulse, low tech and easy to build, and voltage requirements are low. Certainly we can do more than just make the gas pop with a match.

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joe cell
« on: December 14, 2007, 11:53:37 PM »

Offline Farrah Day

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2007, 09:48:58 AM »
Hi Rab

Everything I've seen an read about the Joe cell indicates that it does not use hydrogen to fuel a car engine. In fact it can't as the gas output from this device is incredibly low, so it must use another form of energy, hence the fact that the timing needs to be set 180 degrees out.

Again, from what I've read, the gases are just a by-product with this technology.  There are even those that say no direct connection to the engine is needed.  Most of this I'm very skeptical of given the possibly highly unreliable nature of the information sources, but it has triggered my curiosity.

I have a small test cell I'm using while experimenting with the 'Meyer-type' wfc, which probably actually resembles a 'Joe cell' more than a 'Meyer cell', in that I'm employing floating plates.

My main goal at present is to get a 'Meyer cell' up and running to maximum efficiency, but if you're going to be experimenting with a 'Joe cell', I for one will be monitoring your results with interest.

Good luck.

Offline raburgeson

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 02:12:22 PM »
Pop cans are a very bad idea because they are to sharp. Engine timing around 70 degrees BTDC. The cell doesn't produce hydrogen correct. H3 and HOH and it's highly explosive and corrosive. Commercial torches have been used to burn the fuel. This does not mean the fuel was put to a practical industrial use. The fuel is far too corrosive for welding. I'm surprised aluminum pistons can stand up too it.

Production of an open flame for other uses though. Our electric is out a lot here the power loop goes down and we have locally lost power twice in the last couple of months. be nice if we had light and heat during these times. Last storm in the Midwest put 600,000 people without power. This can still be viewed by a news search. Stainless can be heated by a soft flame from this output, it doesn't react to Hydrogen, oxygen, or water. A hot metal plate can provide heat. A stainless sock on a gas lamp? No one has tried to put this unit to work. It has to be hooked to the engine, every video shows a vacuum is required for gas production. The couple bubbles they light running without a vacuum is just that, a worthless couple of bubbles.       
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0T7Oph_RYg
        This guy spends a lot of time and starts his car many times to show you the cell produces when a vacuum is present. You can see the production through the glass container. There is a lot of stupid stuff to watch too, I'm not sure were the video of the dowsing stainless steel fits in??? Also I have seen quite a bit of foolish claims, there are some good videos though watch them all and throw out the bad ones. There is no mysterious force connected to the cell and no spiritual power or any of that crap. It's just stainless pipe and Low voltage DC. One guy disconnected the battery and continued running his engine until the volt meter showed only 1 volt potential left in the cell. There is a simple explanation for that and it doesn't involve demons or inter dimensional power. Once a path is ionized it could take an incredibly small amount of current to sustain the chemical reaction. That's what they are talking about when they say they can unhook the battery. The cell does go flat though and the cell has to be hooked to the intake because it needs vacuum to produce. If a 1 and 1/2 volt cell holds the potential without discharging the battery as they claim (without noticable discharge) then it becomes a cheap form of energy, even if it's a bit impractical. It is entirely impossible for the small battery to support the potential with no current flow what so ever. Bet if this claim is any good a medical ammeter  will at least show nano-amperes for current.

I tested the first claims listed in the first post, they are valid. 2 neutral plates cut amperage in half, find a good insulation, and 316 stainless annealed to remove magnetism all worked. that's as far as I have gotten so far. I got my stainless by buying trim ends off of conduit from an electrical contractor 2 blocks from here. Hope he has some more now.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2007, 03:22:21 PM by raburgeson »

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2007, 02:12:22 PM »
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Offline Farrah Day

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2007, 10:58:33 AM »
Hi Rab,

I'm not sure you realise the implications of what you said in the post above. Where did you get the H3 and HOH from?

What do you mean by HOH... just water??

H3, otherwise know as Tritium is a radioactive isotope of hydrogen produced in nuclear reactors, and so not exactly the kind of thing you will get from a 12 volt Joe Cell. A geiger counter would come in handy if you really suspect a Joe Cell produces Tritium, not only to confirm this, but also for health reasons.

What is your source of info for this statement?

Do you have a reaction equation for producing the Tritium? 

Offline raburgeson

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 06:23:23 AM »
Not to change the subject but this works, tried it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2czE_HNWl3Q

Video says no one knows why

H3 and HOH aren't the main production but present. H2O normal water, HOH they don't understand it and had to name it something different to designate the difference and if you stole a balloon from your kids you have burnt some by now.

The white surface that appears on the stainless may have some dielectric properties? A reaction is going on in the water. Once the reaction is started, the voltage requirement  drops and needs almost no amperage. I'm trying to get someone who knows why to open their mouths. Why does the cell drain a 12 volt battery and not a 1 and 1/2 volt cell? Why does the water burn?

Use a longer lighter to burst the balloon and don't light it in the wind like I did the first one, you can loose your eyebrows.

H3 is just a trace element found by several groups that have worked on the cell. Does it change the reactance of the water? These are questions the scientist haven't answered either.

Brings a question to mind about the Meyers spark plug replacement though and I have to go study the videos. Is there a visible connection to the rubber line leading to the laser chamber? Could that water entering the chamber already be flammable? There is something sneaky about his water fuel injection system that was undisclosed. The trouble is he could hide a lot in the control box and you could watch forever and not catch sight of it. what did the lasers do? Light the mixture or atomize it. Well off to his videos.

« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 07:00:05 AM by raburgeson »

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2007, 06:23:23 AM »
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Offline Farrah Day

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2007, 10:09:11 PM »
Rab

I can tell you why I think a 1.5 volt battery won't drain. This is because it does not provide enough voltage to initiate electrolysis and so no current will flow, hence no battery current drain.

White compound definately has dielectric properties. What it is and exactly how it enhances the operation of a wfc is more of a mystery.

Offline raburgeson

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 04:04:51 PM »
My new stock just arrived. I ordered schedule 10, I' and 2" diameters and schedule 5, 3"and 4" diameters. I got schelude 40, 1" and 2" diameters and schedule 80, 3" and 4" diameters. This will work fine for my experiments however, if I was trying to run a auto with these I would be in trouble. The weight would be self destructive on the heavily pot holed roads I drive on. It may be wise for me to purchase kits from now on.

I hope to take the mystical approach away from this device. Horizontally it looks like a electron tube. Not a vacuum tube but a water tube. Notice the negitive is connected to the bottom and the positive is connected to the top. this is very important to the function of the cell. Now look at the water as a very low resistance semi-conductor. Suddenly this simple device isn't so simple anymore. I hope some of the older members jump in on this conversation that have a lot of experience with tubes and tube circiuts.

As electrons are drawn away from the surface of the tubes by the water there is a minute drop of voltage in the lenght of the cathode and anode. This is also reflected in the neutral plates. Imagine the neutral plates being electron imbalanced the lenth of the cylinder, inside and out. Apply some very basic theory to this, like charges attract, opposite charges repel. And from lead acid batteries, ions in a fluid are free to move to electrons. This makes the simple device get very complicated.

1 more theory to look at the bump theory which I support for the way electrons move in a conductor. This makes me back away from the standard explanation on how a capacitor works. The 2 explanations just don't work together. Look at the capacitor's plates as a bunch of thin slices off of a wire. Each is a short lenght of conductor, why does the capacitor hold a charge? The electron should bump through to the ion charged side. There has to be a barrier in the center of the plate. There has to be a barrier in the center of walls of the cylinders of the Joe Cell too. This should allow for some amazing things such as a low voltage skin effect and a sort of rail gun for electrons. Also a possibility of alfa radiation so from now on as a precaution I will wear gloves and a clear face shield around an uninclosed Joe Cell. If you know someone well versed in tube design in here could you get him to look at the cell's design. I'm a little to young to really qualify and I'm not afraid to admit it. One thing I can tell you for certain though is this cell is not the result of and accident, the construction is simple but the theory is not. It makes me think a very top rate think tank is behind it's developement.

 
« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 05:06:31 PM by raburgeson »

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2008, 04:04:51 PM »
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Offline jikwan

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2008, 07:00:36 PM »
keep going rab
lot of people monitoring this
your onto something

Offline raburgeson

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 08:33:28 PM »
I've been a little slow getting up. The pipe is much rougher than thinner tubing. I got it together after finally getting it polished enough and had it producing. Now I've torn it apart and I'm slamming it back together with Nylon insulation instead of the Ebonite used on the first try. I believe you get a better reaction with 1/8 inch thick material than you do with 1/4 inch. My first ones had .082 walls and seemed to work better than the present configuration. A pics with Nylon freshly installed. Still going back together. Light is just to strong to get a really good picture. Need the strong light for another experiment that's going on in the other room. Because of the weight of the pieces the insulation is really pressed in tight, it malforms a bit.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2008, 09:33:40 PM by raburgeson »

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 08:33:28 PM »
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Online ramset

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 08:48:56 PM »
YOU have my ear  thanx for bringing this mysterious device to this Forum and experimenting   Chet

Offline Super God

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 02:58:53 AM »
Hi,
I've always wondered where the line was between the bullshit and the facts about this neat device.  Thank you for shedding some light on it!

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 02:58:53 AM »
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Offline raburgeson

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2008, 12:54:08 AM »
I ended up away from the bench a while. Everyone in the family seemed to be ending up in the hospital. 2 were sent to Pittsburgh, long drive, I'll get back on it now. I haven't tried pulsing the cell yet and I do have to have the third cylinder turned down. It's running unbalanced and the second (from the center) ring seems to be doing most of the production. I have to drive a ways to get clean spring water. Most of the water is pretty crappy here. I have a suspicion that the water in my area is not from springs and instead from artesion wells. Seem to be far to high in iron, I think that's whats wrong with it. But, now I'm guessing so ignore that, the water nearby does not work well, I get a lot of scum off of it.

As reported in many videos PVC pipe releases crap. I'm going to try painting PVC pipe with epoxy. Trying to find cheap easily available materials. The tap water here has fluoride and chloride in it and I choose not to use it. The test tank I'm using now is a bit to short, I only have two inches of water over the top of the cylinders. Present test tank is a heavy stainless wine serving ice bucket thing, it's good for giving room for observation but not good for a sealed lid. for that I need heavier material.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 01:16:04 AM by raburgeson »

Offline raburgeson

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2008, 02:32:52 AM »
I made a mistake trying city tap water. By video you pour the scum off a couple of times adding a bit each time and end up with charged purified water. Works that way too if you get water from a spring 66 miles from here. I put Erie water in it and it would not clear. Every time you added a little more you just get a new layer of scum. I have to clean the whole thing back up again and start over. This is just the initial 2 amp run. Notice even with water problems I get hydrogen production. The bubbles are blurred because it told me 50 Kbytes max, you can still make them out if you squint, ignore the brown crap on top, you know what that is.

You will see a lot of confusion on the net on how to get the cell generating. This has worked for me every time to start the cell generating. I just hit it with 50 amps for 15 to 30 seconds with a battery charger. I set it down on 2 amps after I see a few bubbles rise. At 15 amps I get get it to run  with no built up coating although I imagine the coating provides extra resistance. I've been trying so many different things. Today I'm trying spring water bottled by Mayer Bros. in West Seneca, NY.

Don't worry I don't drink that stuff.

I read a story somewhere about monoatomic hydrogen and will do my best to recreate it for those that never seen it. The mans name was Boyce and he was racing boats somewhere using hydrogen for fuel. He was draining the batteries completely to race. One day he noticed power surges at curtain speeds. He found out 1 of his diodes was burned out in the alternator. The frequencies were 10.7, 21.?, and (Keely) 42.8 Kcps. If anyone else comes across this please feel free to report the ?. The bias was keeping the hydrogen from rebonding and the ac was doing the cracking. I hope this is new to a lot of you and I'm not wasting your time with it.

The bottled spring water worked well. I charged it up with a minimum of scum forming. I bottled that and am doing a new cleanup. I am going to try to use the information in the story above on it next.

Found it 21.4, here's a link to the article:

file:///D:/Boyce/Bob%20Boyce's%20Electrolyzer%20Plans%20Available%20to%20All.htm

Notice that 21.4 Kcps is the first harmonic and 42.8 Kcps is the third harmonic of 10.7 Kcps. It gives us a mathematic reason to chase this as a true disclosure. The site to me seemed to be a circle jerk and I did not glean any more information from it. It could be spyware on my computer causing this problem. If someone else can navigate other information please do bring it to the forum somewhere, I will eventually read it, I try to read everything in here. Gets me in trouble too, then I want to work on everything at once and post enough that people get tired of me.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 12:54:12 AM by raburgeson »

Offline raburgeson

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2008, 01:21:14 AM »
Taking her down again, a really good clean up takes time. I'm taking off the white coating, something you want on the cell when you are running it, Not desirable for experimenting from scratch each time, I've cleaned some off already. As you can see I haven't touched the center cylinder yet at all. I don't see why they were concerned about the surface peeling, the stuff is really hard to remove even on purpose. This is a 36 hour build up. In the post above, yes the big blue things are bubbles being produced. What the picture doesn't show is the billions of tiny white bubbles. the white areas in the picture around the bottom is simply a foam of them so thick you can't see through them.

Well I will sit here mindlessly brass brushing it and try to figure out what you guys are getting up to today. The bracket that holds the bolt at the bottom is just 304l stainless strap an 1/8 inch thick bent in a triangle with 2 tabs bent over at the base where the bolt goes. Drove it in there hard with a three pound hammer 2 1/4 inches. It's in tight believe me, then I had to realign the insulators after driving it in. Tapped them back into place using a gun cleaning rod for a punch and a smaller hammer.  After a wailing like that they moved a lot.

I'm ready to get serious and build a vessel to apply a vacuum to the cell. I haven't made up my mind what material I'm going to use yet. I think I'll go against the grain of the videos and use a tough plastic.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2008, 01:54:30 AM by raburgeson »

Offline oouthere

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Re: joe cell
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2008, 07:46:20 PM »
  Hi Rab,

  You are walking a tough road building this one.  This is the group I started years back and the homepage is one of my cells that I finally gave away:  http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/joecellfreeenergydevice/

  You already realize a lot of money and time gets dumped into this "simple" device.  I originally purchased a lathe just to polish mine.....hours and hours of polishing even with a lathe.  I did manage stage three several times but it never would operate a motor or effect a motor.  I finally realized that some of the people claiming to run an engine on the Joe Cell were only running them for less than a minute and that was after removing the fuel line....probably just burning residule fuel.  There were some I feel were sucessful, but very few.  I eventually built another out of aluminum since the material was so much easier to machine but of course that did not work either.

  But anyway, the best of luck to you.

  Rich

 

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