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Author Topic: Bedini replication in Germany  (Read 81031 times)

Offline Ren

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2008, 08:35:38 AM »
fair enough Zott we did kinda hijack this thread :-[

I guess we should start our own hey. ;)

Look forward to some more pics Albert

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #75 on: March 10, 2008, 08:35:38 AM »

Offline albert

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #76 on: March 10, 2008, 03:08:41 PM »
Hello,
why didn't you leave your messages in? We want to discuss things...and the replies are hanging in the air without your messages....

well anyway, here are new pictures:
(http://)
The Batteries:
(http://)
And a scopeshot....
(http://)

Ren, I would like to know more about your machine- you seem to have followed the Bedini images exactly. I want to know what your input and output currents might be, and what it looks like on the scope. A shot from the coil side would also be appreciated.
I am not too happy with the performance of the third machine. Perhaps it is the printed circuit boards. I wired them together as shortly as possible, all on the back of the machine. but the wires from the coils have to be longer for this of course.
 As you can see on my scope shot,  the "Radiant Spike" is well into the 120-130 Volt region here and goes up twice as high as on the other device. the big batteries charge dead slow nonetheless. RPM is 730 at full speed-one pulse per magnet. I am not sure about the little lamp in the trigger circuit. With it, i get 2.12. A input maximum and without it, about 3 A. Output current is between 800 mA and 1 A. Its clear that a 100 amp hour battery will charge slowly on that. Nonetheless it charges.
For longer test runs, I run at 3 pulses/magnet and about 1.30 A input. 540 RPM on the rotor. I still have vibration problems on this one.


Offline Ren

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2008, 09:43:43 PM »
Looks good Albert. I think the pcb boards may restrict performance somewhat. I also think your transistors may be too small for that sort of current draw. It works though so maybe Im wrong. I would be inclined to move towards a mlj transistor.

I havnt wired up mine yet and it still needs a core for the coil, getting that today hopefully.

I am attempting to create a pulsed discharge setup hence the fixed shaft for attachment of timing wheel. I would also like to try a back popping style to keep the primary topped up. So a few different tests to run on the same machine.

Try charging a slightly smaller battery. If your drawing 2.2 amps I would suggest a 40 amp hour battery, thats just under c/20. Are they deep  cycle lead acids? Or damaged? what is vibrating?

« Last Edit: March 11, 2008, 04:29:58 AM by Ren »

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #77 on: March 10, 2008, 09:43:43 PM »
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Offline gandalf

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2008, 03:23:58 AM »
@Albert

Just read this thread from start to finish. I haven't been on this board for a while. Great work.

A couple of tips - if you can go to the MJL21194 flat pack transistors, especially if you are running at 24V. Lead acid flooded wet cell deep cycle batteries work better as secondary batteries. You can use your gel cells as primaries if you can keep them charged up with a conventional charger.

@Ren

Haven't heard from you for a while on the other lists. Looks like you're still hard at it! I'd love to catch up and compare setups, I'm in Melbourne too. I'd prefer a Heineken than a VB  ;)

Cheers,

John

Offline Ren

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2008, 03:57:28 AM »
Hey John, hows life?

Ive been busy lately, mostly with work. Still building and close to completion. Still monitor other forums, only post when I have something to say. Been studying Tesla patents in an attempt to understand it all lately.

shan

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2008, 03:57:28 AM »
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Offline gandalf

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2008, 04:10:32 AM »
Hey Shan,

If you haven't already, check out Tesla's one-wire "System of Electric Lightning". US patent 454,622.

And just to stay on topic - Albert, are your coils wired up as master/slave arrangement or are they three separate circuits? Master/slave works better IMO, it's also easier to tune and will charge your batteries better.

Cheers,

John

Offline albert

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2008, 11:23:25 AM »
Hello friends,

thanks for the tips- I would like to use the bigger transistors, but have not found them so far here in Germany.

I have worked out the vibration problem - needed 2 grams of extra weight on one side of the rotor. And a wooden cross bar to stabilize the whole thing. There are resonance problems at certain speeds. I also used some rubber dampeners from an old cd rom drive to get rid of the droning noises, this way I can run the thing without hearing it all over the house.
Right now I run a slow test - changed the gap setting between rotors and coils- so this way the thing will run at 700-900 mA at 350 rpm. I charged both battery banks at 12 volts -put in 15 AH into both of them. Lets see how long the running time will be until both bats are down to 12 volts again.
The cap bank/ back popper system also continues to intrigue me. I will rework my first bike wheel machine to have the axle rotate and then make another coil for it. it should run on very little current. The bigger machines are probably not too good for this anyway.

Shan, my coils are all running from the same trigger. I would like to try a separate coil for the trigger - it can deliver more current. I also would like to try having a four coil arrangement with two coils between magnets and two coils facing magnets. Bedinis "double decker" machine has that but they are all firing from the same trigger. He says this way you can get torque out of the rotor.
gandalf, thanks for the tip on the batteries. I think - like you- that the gel cells might not be the optimum- mine are old anyway and I would like to try new ones. but they are too expensive for me at the moment. I  have not tried wet cells at all so far because I do not want to have that mess in my shop. When summer comes, I will try to move one machine to my garden shed, there it can make all the mess it wants to make! ;D
I thought about doubling the pulse rate by having the above setup and running it off two different triggers. So there is a lot to try still..all these setups are prototypes anyway.

Please keep me informed! ren, what do you use for coil cores? we are talking about laminated cores - rectangular in shape to be the width of the magnets. what do you think?

Albert

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #81 on: March 14, 2008, 11:23:25 AM »
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Offline Ren

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #82 on: March 14, 2008, 09:27:33 PM »
Hey Albert.

I think youd find the square cores would perform very similar to the round ones. I could be wrong though. My core is circular and is the same width of the magnets I use. I had good results when the magnets were smaller too. I brought 5 kilos of R60 (Comweld high test, equivalent of R60) and it seems to work well for coil core. I'd be happy to part with some if anyone is willing to cover cost and pay for postage. I can cut it up to the length you need to make postage easier too. It was $60 bucks for five kilos, and theres no way Im gonna use it all this century.

Albert I think it would be interesting to try a pick up coil as your trigger coil. You could wind very fine wire and try to get the quickest switching time possible. Alternate firing will give you a little more torque but not as good charging IMO. You may want to check out this post from Peter Lindemann who worked closely with John. http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1643-capacitor-options.html#post16017.

You may need to sign up to read it but it is worth it.

Offline albert

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2008, 06:19:31 PM »
Thanks ren - I read the post and I see that every day some more information seeps out.

RESULTS:

I ran the 3 coil machine for 4 days continuously, switching batteries about every 10 hours or so. I tried to make the switching over as quickly as possible without stopping the machine.
Before doing this, I charged both battery banks with a normal charger, I put in 15 AH into each one, makes 30 all together. Both banks were at 12 Volts before charging em.Voltage at rest was 12.580 before the test and about 12. 126 Volts after the test.
I have then set the machine not to its normal sweet spot but to a much lower speed. It draws -- here it gets difficult!! My analog needle meter shows 1.5 A - the true RMS digital ammeter also. the clamp ammeter shows about 800 mA. I tend to think more along 1 to 1.5 A.
Ok now- lets say we ran for 96 hours at 1.5 A. Makes 144 AH Output. At 800 mA this makes 76 AH output. both are way over the combined capacities of the batteries. Anyway over the 30 AH I put in at the beginning.
the lowest voltage on one of them was 11.885 volts. At rest both banks were still above 12 volts at the end of the run. All the while the rotor turned at 450 rpm.
If that is not O'U, I don't know. If I had pulled the cells down to 11 Volts, I would still be running today....
I notice that the radiant charge has a tendency to dissipate quickly on the cells I use. I had to keep at it nonstop.
I think the problem with the battery switching is that people tend to force too much current into them while draining the drive batts too quickly. I ran a test with the machine at full blast drawing about 5 A on the batts. The charge battery would go up very rapidly, then collapse to the voltage I had before I started charging when I switched it to the input. By running the machine slowly I seem to be in "nature"s curve" as JB would say. Also, the type of battery seems to respond better to several short pulses in a row. At my setting, the machine gave 4 pulses, then a pause, and then 4 pulses again. Looks like the signal of a RC transmitter before modulation.
I really think that another problem may be that the batteries seem to respond well to a pulsed charge but not to a pulsed DISCHARGE. If one of you has a really big capacitor bank, try hooking it up in parallel to the energizers input to see if the battery lasts longer when the pulses are smoothed by the caps.

Please tell me if you find faults with my measurements - and my reasoning!

Albert

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #83 on: March 20, 2008, 06:19:31 PM »
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Offline zott

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #84 on: March 21, 2008, 12:05:29 AM »
 Thanks for posting some measurements  . this will give me some more comparison  numbers to  use against my own numbers.  I have ran   measurements on  the setup I have built and have measured  the amp cost to turn the rotor and  amp outflow to  the charge batts, I get better numbers early in the morning  on the first couple of spin ups.  the cost in amps on one good test was  2.1 to 2.2 amps at 23.21 vdc ( I went up to 24 volts to drive the rotor to get more speed while using more adjustable resistance on the trigger line ) to turn the rotor.  Then out of the  return charge line to the charging battery  I read 1.43 amps at 12.75-12.8 volts  this was not good enough so I took 1 line from each coil  that did not have  the trigger line in them and I built a bridge rect. out of 1n007 diodes  and ran it  through a spring switch then into a  set of 6- 30 vdc , 160,000 mfd computer grade capacitors  and spun  the rotor up again . this time I also pulled  2.0 amps at 22.6 vdc out of the 2 coils while I held the  spring switch closed which I loaded into the capacitor bank . If I left the spring switch open the line buildup would  get to 23 volts and when I closed the switch to let the buildup into the capacitors I would get up to 8 amps for a couple seconds until it bled off into the capacitor and then it would charge at a 1.4 to 2 amp  continous rate. I figured this was great because these 2 lines that were feeding the caps had no voltage input other than what they picked up   through the coil ( induction transferrance?)  while it was running the rotor . almost something for nothing , but I do not thinng so  yet?   So now  the system has 1 battery that is giving energy 2.1 amps @23.21 vdc,to turn the rotor and 2  charge circuits  that give  1.43 amps ( through the transistors) and 1 that gives  up to 2 amps continous through the coil;s using inductance. . A lot more work to do and I really want to try the cap at the drive battery you spoke of. thanks again....fr.. rick,.( I hope this is understandable  description  I was rushed to get ready for another 12 hour night shift.)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2008, 08:50:45 PM »
Did anybody ofyou include spark gaps in the charging side of the circuits ?
Makes these Bedini type much more effective.

Remember Bedini used also first in his earlier units mechanical
switches to deliver the cap charge back to the batteries.

Via the spark gap at the switch you have dissimular metals
and sparks which work like miniature batteries and deliver additional
free electrons into the circuit.
The same is happening in the Newman machines,
when the commutator switches.

Best effect is with graphite and copper electrodes as the spark gap.
Gives much more juice into the charging battery.

Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #85 on: March 29, 2008, 08:50:45 PM »
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Offline zott

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #86 on: April 03, 2008, 06:57:03 AM »
 left meter  reads 1.02 amps drive current at 24 volts , center meter shows .27 amps charging current into 12 voltsthrough mje 3055 transistors. and the right side coil shows.81 amps chargeinto 12 a volt battery through  2 wires going through 2 of the coils then a full bridge using inductance only  the trigger had  a 50 ohm var resistor and  120 ohms of 1/2 watt resistance with a 12 volt  1 watt neon bulb as a buffer. I let it find it's own speed with max trigger resistance. I will post a few nwew pics  in following  message boxes as only 1 -50 k pic per post is allowed.

Offline zott

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #87 on: April 03, 2008, 07:27:01 AM »
I tried to post explanation of the next pics but it refused a 50k pic ,then lost the post and gave the you already posted b.s.  so I will just post pics ,i don't have time to be screwed with

Offline zott

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #88 on: April 03, 2008, 07:37:38 AM »
previous picture  big 160,000 mfd  30 VDC  cap bank for  the 2 inductance lines.Runnning a closed circuit through the full bridges  will hold 2 amps current into the batteries .. When a switch is put in the line the caps will build 8 amps current  then bleeds off into the battery when the switch is closed. I will work on an auto switching line control  perhaps with a spark gap.

Offline zott

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Re: Bedini replication in Germany
« Reply #89 on: April 03, 2008, 07:50:50 AM »
work area is getting a bit sloppy, The new circular setup for the power busses and shortened coil lines suggested by Ren has worked out a lot better than when the control mods were all on 1 side , which had  less efficient longer wires. Thanks

 

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