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Author Topic: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.  (Read 107937 times)

z_p_e

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #75 on: December 23, 2007, 05:46:52 AM »
Grump,

You gave enough of a rat's ass to chime in and bluntly tell me I was wrong. Is a reason why too much to ask? Why even respond in the first place then?

No follow-ups, no hints or suggestions, no elaboration as AM requested, nothing except an evasive and now cynical and empty response.

Well, next time I won't bother asking.

AhuraMazda

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #76 on: December 23, 2007, 11:49:02 AM »
It's a big world out there - bigger than Maxwell, and bigger than magnetic induction

Grumpy,
I agree with you. So you don't want to show us your TPU design and you don't even want to share your ideas.
Perhaps next you will be removing all you past posts. Shame.

AM

Grumpy

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #77 on: December 23, 2007, 04:12:32 PM »
Grump,

You gave enough of a rat's ass to chime in and bluntly tell me I was wrong. Is a reason why too much to ask? Why even respond in the first place then?

No follow-ups, no hints or suggestions, no elaboration as AM requested, nothing except an evasive and now cynical and empty response.

Well, next time I won't bother asking.

Here is the point that you just made for me:

You stated something as fact and I pointed out that it was incorrect.  Rather than explain, I told you to look outside of Maxwell and that there are other forms of induction (just like there are other means to couple two things together).  You won't even expend the effort to do this, so why should I explain anything?

Many just want a "free energy" device.  They do not want to learn anything, to discover anything, or to understand anything - especially if they have to work for it.  Sure they chat on the forum, they build a few circuits, wind a few coils, but they never come to a true understanding of electricity.

z_p_e

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #78 on: December 23, 2007, 04:49:03 PM »
dfro quotes:
Quote
With the current flowing in the input coil, its magnetic flux induces a current and flux in the collector coil.  Using the flux created in the collector coil is one of the secrets, I think.
Quote
When the fast, high voltage kick hits the first input coil and inducing current, its flux lines build and cut through the collector coil, causing current to be induced in the collector coil.

dfro,

This simply just does not occur with coils oriented 90? from one another. Fundamentally, this is incorrect, but if you have any thoughts on how this happens, by all means please express them.

Quote
The magnetic flux has just spun 90 degrees and moved over from input coil 1 to vertical collector coil 1.

This sounds wonderful and would be great if it acted this way, but you failed to mention how or what causes the flux to rotate 90?.

Quote
When the kicks on coil 2 pull in the radiant energy current surge, that induces current and flux in the collector coil and the next adjacent vertical coil, which is wrapped in such a way that it induces current and flux in the next input coil (3).

"Wrapped in such a way" is the key here. This is the 90? rotation you speak of, but again merely saying that it can be done is not enough.

Many things can be "said" to make one's theory fit the mold, but unless there is something more concrete to back it up, it is just a wild theory, especially when it flies in the face of conventional bench-top practical experience.

But again, if you (or anyone) have some thoughts on how these actions may occur, please feel free to elaborate on them. We would sincerely be interested in your perspective.

Cheers

wattsup

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #79 on: December 23, 2007, 05:21:48 PM »
@z_p_e

I may not me the brightest EE around but I do know mag fields and you are absolutely right about coil to coil, will NOT transfer anything. You need an interface between them to transfer. People, just try it. Wind a bifilar air core and pulse only one of them. Nothing on the other. Now put an iron rod inside the core. Pulse, now see what happens.

If it was possible, then conductors in all electronic equipment would have to use shielded wires because every wire would affect every other wire. Circuit boards would not work. IC's would not work, memory chips and cpu's would not work.
Seems simple enough to understand.

z_p_e

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #80 on: December 23, 2007, 05:39:00 PM »
wattsup,

You should actually get some induction from coil to coil with a bifilar winding. It's simply just a loosely-coupled air-core transformer.

Adding a flux-concentrating core allows better coupling and hence better induction from one to the other.

The point I've been trying to make all along here is the 90? orientation of coil1 with respect to coil2 is what nullifies the induction effect.

Thaelin

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #81 on: December 23, 2007, 05:51:15 PM »
Hi all:
   Anyone herer take notice that his last time on was November 29. He made "2" posts on the 27th and then was gone. No more to be seen. Nice way to start a thread out.

thaelin

BEP

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #82 on: December 23, 2007, 08:45:10 PM »
Hi folks!

I just got back from a whirlwind tour of Europe. All work, no play – still suffering jet-lag but I see terms like ’90 degrees nullifies coupling’, ‘bench experience’, and thoughts of no inductive coupling between perpendicular coils.

I can’t be quiet here because I just had these arguments with Dutch, French and German EE’s. While I cannot go into details on the circuits I had to fix because of the ‘upgrade’ efforts of these people I will tell you this:

90 degree coil orientation minimizes conventional inductive coupling. It does not nullify it. Typical reduction is 30 dB, in ‘far-field’ RF terms. Of course, most do not think in ‘near-field’ terms. Coupling adjustment can be obtained by varying the spacing between the coils OR the orientation OR the relative position. Ever hear of ‘series and parallel aiding or opposing’ or just aiding and opposing coupling? How about the fact that in near-field the magnetic component is dominant NOT the electric component? Old radios made in the early part of the 20th century that used variable orientation between coils to control resonance for tuning? No? I suppose not.

Conventional thought on coupling is to induce a like signal in the secondary. This is good when the coupled coils are parallel. Unconventional coupling is to induce a secondary signal unlike the primary. This secondary signal can only be the resonant frequency (and harmonics) of the secondary coil – regardless of the primary frequency. This is done with perpendicular coupling.
Granted, the result is weak, especially when the designer continues to limit their thoughts by the book. There is nothing wrong or new about the physics. The book is only a starting point. It is NOT the answer.
 
The way to enhance the power from the secondary I see as the following:

The higher the primary signal voltage (not Amps) the stronger the induced ‘ringing’ of the secondary.
If you control the primary pulse width to the point that the primary signal fall aids the ringing of the secondary instead of dampens it you enhance the ringing.
If the secondary is resonate at some harmonic of the primary the energy output of the secondary can be improved without increasing the power drawn through the primary.

It is no different than striking a tuning fork or ringing a bell. No matter what frequency you hit them they will vibrate at their resonance and over/undertones.

If you don’t control the pulse width to aid the ringing it is the same as pushing a child in a swing and not timing your pushes to aid the swinging.

Yes, there is such a thing as perpendicular induction. Maybe there is some secret name for it other than induction. I don’t know. Keep denying it and some poor slob will be forced to fly during holidays and fix the problem.

Every time I see implied ‘Laws of Physics’ it pisses me off. There are no laws – only our interpretations of what was written and the interpretations of the observer. Too many seem to think the observations made decades ago just can’t be incorrect or incomplete OR EVEN WORSE – applies to all variations of phenomena. To that I say – stay where you are comfortable – enjoy the show. I’ll be glad to set my bench afire just to learn more. It is already charred.

Bench experience? Yea, right. Have you ever run into an odd signal in a line of amp stages that just didn’t fit the band intended to be amplified? Usually near the BFO or mixer stage? Well guess what. The coils in these ‘separate stages’ are usually oriented for ‘nullifying the coupling’ between them. The signal is coming from somewhere. It ain’t just ‘noise’.

When you strike a bell with a hammer the sound of the bell is so much louder and longer than the hammer strike. Also it isn’t transverse.

Simple solution to any argument: Prove or disprove on your own bench. Make sure you look close. Do this EVEN if the book says it is true or false. If you did it before under tutelage, try it again and look closer.

I don’t know the secrets to this thing but I’m having a blast learning more. I’m over half/century for some time now and the learning is even more fun.

I can’t wait to see what the South Americans think of some old lunatic running around flushing toilets and recording which direction the water twirls! Only now I also have my little piece of resin to twirl on the desk. So far everywhere in the Northern hemisphere it prefers to go counter-clockwise. This is not possible according to ‘The BOOK’.

While I have great respect for work done by many here….

BOOK thumpers can eat my shorts  :)

I wish the rest the best of enjoyment of whatever holiday is current or coming for them! After some eggnog I’ll be exploding some caps for goof measure.

BEP     

nightlife

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #83 on: December 23, 2007, 09:18:01 PM »
BEP, that was a great post and it couldn't be any better said. The things you are finding out have already been found out but they have been hid from us. We are just now starting to collect all these things that have been hid from us and more up us are starting to use our common sense to understand things a bit better.
 
 It is obvious that electricity is nothing more then a collection of vibrations created from frequencies which were created by a resistance between two objects. It could be wind, it could be other frequencies from the opposite direction, it could be from explosions from the sun, or it could come from a combination of all. Regardless where they are from, they are still frequencies and frequencies are what we need to collect and or create to produce electricity for us to utilize as a main power source.

z_p_e

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #84 on: December 23, 2007, 09:25:44 PM »
 :D

BEP,

When I later saw you were online, I KNEW you would be posting something here in an attempt to derail everything I've said here. I expected nothing less from you.

You can jabber whatever you want regarding your experience and my experience, and how much "outside the book" you know and have learned (or at least think you have), but the bottom line is as I already stated it twice now, and am getting tired of it, is magnetic coupling does not occur between two orthogonal coils...period! If you want to get nitpicky with perfection, go right ahead and fill your boots.....I don't think dfro was going to that degree, and neither was I.In general this is the case.There is a reason inductive components are placed orthogonal to each other when interference needs to be minimized.

Good grief, folks love to nitpick! Nullify, minimize....take a pill my friend. The world isn't going to end because these two terms were used to say essentially the same thing.

I have done your experiment with orthogonal coils.I have seen the resulting output on the other coil.I know about the timing and resonance.

Let go of the "you're stuck with your head in the books" idea about me. If it was so, I would not be here right? Perhaps you and others have completely missed the point (and also already destroyed it by now) that I was trying to coax an answer from the author of this thread. Trying not only to get him to think about it, but to respond as well. But as usual, these threads are hijacked and derailed by jack-asses that have nothing better to do than barge in and jump all over folks when they see an opportunity to flex their so-called esoteric brain tissue to prove they can think outside the box.

Well, you folks enjoy and revel in your all-knowingness. Meanwhile, I and a few other folks will just stand by and let y'all continue going in circles, as it seems you so much relish doing.

Merry xmas

epwpixieq-1

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #85 on: December 23, 2007, 09:28:38 PM »
Quote
Many just want a "free energy" device.  They do not want to learn anything, to discover anything, or to understand anything - especially if they have to work for it. 

well captured  :)  ... I am wondering if there were no TPU will be people willing to learn, I hope yes ...

nightlife

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #86 on: December 23, 2007, 09:33:17 PM »
Hansvonlieven posted this link on another thread and you all may want to check it out before continuing to argue as some are.

http://www.mondovista.com/meyers/

Grumpy

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #87 on: December 23, 2007, 11:45:38 PM »
Hi folks!

I just got back from a whirlwind tour of Europe. All work, no play ? still suffering jet-lag but I see terms like ?90 degrees nullifies coupling?, ?bench experience?, and thoughts of no inductive coupling between perpendicular coils.

I can?t be quiet here because I just had these arguments with Dutch, French and German EE?s. While I cannot go into details on the circuits I had to fix because of the ?upgrade? efforts of these people I will tell you this:

90 degree coil orientation minimizes conventional inductive coupling. It does not nullify it. Typical reduction is 30 dB, in ?far-field? RF terms. Of course, most do not think in ?near-field? terms. Coupling adjustment can be obtained by varying the spacing between the coils OR the orientation OR the relative position. Ever hear of ?series and parallel aiding or opposing? or just aiding and opposing coupling? How about the fact that in near-field the magnetic component is dominant NOT the electric component? Old radios made in the early part of the 20th century that used variable orientation between coils to control resonance for tuning? No? I suppose not.

Conventional thought on coupling is to induce a like signal in the secondary. This is good when the coupled coils are parallel. Unconventional coupling is to induce a secondary signal unlike the primary. This secondary signal can only be the resonant frequency (and harmonics) of the secondary coil ? regardless of the primary frequency. This is done with perpendicular coupling.
Granted, the result is weak, especially when the designer continues to limit their thoughts by the book. There is nothing wrong or new about the physics. The book is only a starting point. It is NOT the answer.
 
The way to enhance the power from the secondary I see as the following:

The higher the primary signal voltage (not Amps) the stronger the induced ?ringing? of the secondary.
If you control the primary pulse width to the point that the primary signal fall aids the ringing of the secondary instead of dampens it you enhance the ringing.
If the secondary is resonate at some harmonic of the primary the energy output of the secondary can be improved without increasing the power drawn through the primary.

It is no different than striking a tuning fork or ringing a bell. No matter what frequency you hit them they will vibrate at their resonance and over/undertones.

If you don?t control the pulse width to aid the ringing it is the same as pushing a child in a swing and not timing your pushes to aid the swinging.

Yes, there is such a thing as perpendicular induction. Maybe there is some secret name for it other than induction. I don?t know. Keep denying it and some poor slob will be forced to fly during holidays and fix the problem.

Every time I see implied ?Laws of Physics? it pisses me off. There are no laws ? only our interpretations of what was written and the interpretations of the observer. Too many seem to think the observations made decades ago just can?t be incorrect or incomplete OR EVEN WORSE ? applies to all variations of phenomena. To that I say ? stay where you are comfortable ? enjoy the show. I?ll be glad to set my bench afire just to learn more. It is already charred.

Bench experience? Yea, right. Have you ever run into an odd signal in a line of amp stages that just didn?t fit the band intended to be amplified? Usually near the BFO or mixer stage? Well guess what. The coils in these ?separate stages? are usually oriented for ?nullifying the coupling? between them. The signal is coming from somewhere. It ain?t just ?noise?.

When you strike a bell with a hammer the sound of the bell is so much louder and longer than the hammer strike. Also it isn?t transverse.

Simple solution to any argument: Prove or disprove on your own bench. Make sure you look close. Do this EVEN if the book says it is true or false. If you did it before under tutelage, try it again and look closer.

I don?t know the secrets to this thing but I?m having a blast learning more. I?m over half/century for some time now and the learning is even more fun.

I can?t wait to see what the South Americans think of some old lunatic running around flushing toilets and recording which direction the water twirls! Only now I also have my little piece of resin to twirl on the desk. So far everywhere in the Northern hemisphere it prefers to go counter-clockwise. This is not possible according to ?The BOOK?.

While I have great respect for work done by many here?.

BOOK thumpers can eat my shorts  :)

I wish the rest the best of enjoyment of whatever holiday is current or coming for them! After some eggnog I?ll be exploding some caps for goof measure.

BEP     


Best post of the day!    Keep it up BEP!


innovation_station

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #88 on: December 24, 2007, 12:11:14 AM »
well i would like to help you all out but

as grumpy mentioned things come only with hard work

i have said many things on this site and many things i said were wrong how ever

also many things i have done and said are so verry true lol

there does not have to be 90 deg to get this to work  ;) does a nuke spinn?  lol

go do your home  work as i have done mine 

i had NO  free hand outs on this journey and i learned far more than i really would have though in the process of learning

just too wild!

ist

Evil Roy Slade

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #89 on: December 24, 2007, 12:32:02 AM »
@Those who believe The Books are bull.

If you had a brain tumor that needed to be removed whom would you choose to remove it.

(a)  A trained and qualified neurosurgeon who had studied a whole heap.

or

(b)  Someone who has casually picked up some nice sounding medical terms from Readers Digest
and intends to use 'common sense' as the basis for brain surgery.


ERS