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Author Topic: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.  (Read 107936 times)

EMdevices

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2007, 03:32:49 PM »
Hi otto,  good work.   

It sounds like you are mixing two frequencies close together and getting a beat frequency (or difference).   Am I understanding you correctly?   

I like the fact that you have vibrations, vibrations are good  :)
What about power output, how do you tap that?

EM

otto

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2007, 05:01:54 PM »
Hi EM,

1 frequency is 245kHz exactly and the other is, I think 67kHz and with the 3rd Im playing. Output is a s..t because I have only 1 ECD coil streched over 1/4 of the circumference of my 6" "TPU". The point is, I wanted a vibration and I got it. This vibration is at 5 - 6kHz but unstable because my coil is unstable, my MOSFETs are unstable, my oscillators are a s..t......as I have to work every day all the days long I have NO time to build tube oscillators....

For the weekend I want a new TPU that vibrates and has a "interacting" coil structure. I mean, all the coils are acting together. In the horizontal AND the vertical direction. The picture showes it clearly. I also want to use "dfros" description as much as possible because I saw that his description is very good.

Im tapping the output with a "Mobius" or something like this. Im thinking of the collectors because a Mobius is OK when connected in the right way. There are a few ways to do this. Not like in the ECD.

Otto


BEP

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2007, 10:43:05 PM »
Hello

I would say hello all but as Im allone I can only say

Hello myself


@Otto

You are not alone. It sounds like we are thinking the same. I'm busy blowing things up! If I can get past the reason for the damage I may make some progress.

It is a little slow for me as I must build each control as I go.

BEP

Thaelin

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2007, 11:25:43 PM »
Hi BEP:
   I have been trying to figure out just where to put this and this seems like the best place. You being a ham radio guy, you will know where I am at thinking on this. I have been mulling over the pages and pages of this. On thing that keeps comming up is the post stating 35.705 and the hi frequency is 249.935 both Khz. This is for the 15" version.  Circumference of the circle is very important. OK. Circum of a 15" is 47.1238.   
   Now we take that 249.935 and convert to wave length, and its wrong. But wait, there is more, 249.935 (MHZ) converts to a wave length of 47.244. He did say you cant tune to the absolute center. And .12xxxx is not far off. So wonder if saying KHZ was a way to say MHZ in ruse. Cant come out and say what freq it is and isnot. Just how does the 5K fit in.

   So whats your feeling here? This just keeps hacking at me.

thaelin

BEP

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2007, 07:55:49 AM »
Hi BEP:
   I have been trying to figure out just where to put this and this seems like the best place. You being a ham radio guy, you will know where I am at thinking on this. I have been mulling over the pages and pages of this. On thing that keeps comming up is the post stating 35.705 and the hi frequency is 249.935 both Khz. This is for the 15" version.  Circumference of the circle is very important. OK. Circum of a 15" is 47.1238.   
   Now we take that 249.935 and convert to wave length, and its wrong. But wait, there is more, 249.935 (MHZ) converts to a wave length of 47.244. He did say you cant tune to the absolute center. And .12xxxx is not far off. So wonder if saying KHZ was a way to say MHZ in ruse. Cant come out and say what freq it is and isnot. Just how does the 5K fit in.

   So whats your feeling here? This just keeps hacking at me.

thaelin


Oh my!

I'm not sure where to begin. You may be right about the a ruse between kHz and mHz. I don't think that is the case.

If you do a spectragram of the sound made by the 6 inch TPU you'll find there are two dominant audio frequencies. The difference between them is 1800 Hz. Between those two you'll see 5 minor lobes in increments of 200 Hz. 1800/5=360. Not interesting?
With that and quite a bit of other work I'm down to this:

Vibration caused by 90 degree fields impressed upon a current carrying wire. This vibration will travel as a sound wave at the speed of sound for that conductor (about 2300 m/s for stranded copper loosly bound - tested). What this does is explains the 5kHz (vibration) and the information about load lights not dimming with more load. Apply more load/cause more vibration. Disconnect the load and the 'hash' takes over and provides HV like an unloaded current transformer.

basically you can make a loop resonate at much lower frequency than conventional calcs because we are dealing with longitudinal waves and different speeds. My 9 inch coil is resonating quite well at 35 kHz but it also will resonate in the HF bands. That 35 kHz with 245 kHz applied to another section generates an audible vibration that ranges from 2.5 kHz to 4.8 kHz (parametric?)

I may still be completely off my rocker and mHz may be required. I'm still working on that.

Much more behind my thoughts but it is very late here and I've been on the bench now about 21 hours.

otto

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2007, 08:33:07 AM »
Hello all,

@BEP

my favorite radio station is at 104 MHz were I can hear all my knocking and hash from my coils. I hope my neighbours dont hear it, ha,ha.

Im happy to NOT be allone. Other will join, be sure.

Otto

Its only my feeling.

Thaelin

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2007, 04:00:02 PM »
  @ BEP:
    Thanks for the reply. That has been bugging me for a while now and just wanted to air it and see where it went. Never know where a new piece of the puzzle will come from. Onward.

thaelin

BEP

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2007, 05:50:12 PM »
@Otto

I must be doing something wrong. I have no 'good' results yet. All is interference related. You have your knocking at 104 mHz? Mine is all of the FM broadcast band. It appears best when listening for frequency modulation on any band my general coverage receiver can see where FM is a mode. Really stong on 6 meters.
Pretty weird considering the highest frequency I'm injecting has been 300 kHz.

Anyone ever listen to the OrbComm downlink? It sounds like that except very unstable.

I start seeing the carriers as low as 155kHz CW. There are definite lobes. Vertical frequencies are very different from horizontal radiations. I had to move my test setup because it was almost directly under the family TV. I drop my HT in the center and there is nothing. Maybe I just stumbled upon an active Farady cage or really nasty Helmholtz coils.

Jeez - I wish I could get back to where I can pop light bulbs. I've done enough jamming work.

Since mine sounds dirtier than yours and my signals aren't strong outside my basement you probably won't have problems with the neighbors. Hopefully  ;D

Alright! I think I need to stop violating FCC rules and make something useful.

Here's a picture before hookup so folks don't think I'm dreaming...

The coils are much closer to the mid coil now and all are covered with stacked vertical coils (added CC covering bottom and mid - added CC covering bottom mid and top). So I have five possible points of injection. Cores (collectors to most) are one loop folded and fed into each coil so current flows the same direction in all coils. This llop is a closed circuit. The cores are inserted to allow for easy vibration.

allcanadian

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2007, 10:38:45 PM »
I think the tpu runs on fairy dust, it seems as likely as anything I have heard. ;D
« Last Edit: December 13, 2007, 08:32:48 AM by allcanadian »

BEP

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2007, 03:56:42 AM »
@allcanadian & @Thaelin

Here is a snippet that I think applies to my arguments about resonance and the supposed impossibility to resonate at these low frequencies without risking the loss of my Ham ticket to a raging mob at the next HamFest:

S. I. Berezina1, V. E. Lyamov1 and S. M. Shandarov1(1)    Tomsk Institute of Automated Control Systems and Radioelectronics, USSR


Received: 15 December 1975  Revised: 7 May 1976 
Abstract  The propagation of elastic waves in piezoelectric and magnetostrictive materials is considered theoretically. It is shown that an elastic wave in a piezoelectric can create not only a longitudinal electric field parallel to the wave normal (longitudinal piezoactivity) but also a transverse field of electric induction (transverse piezoactivity). The presence of a transverse induction field leads to the appearance of a magnetic field perpendicular to the direction of the wave normal and to the induction vector; therefore, the transverse-piezoactive wave is accompanied by a transverse wave having the structure of an electromagnetic wave and propagating with the speed of sound. Transverse-magnetostrictive elastic waves in magnetostrictive dielectrics are accompanied by a similar wave.
Translated from Izvestiya Vysshikh Uchebnykh Zavedenii, Fizika, No. 10, pp. 32–36, October, 1976.

I don't have more. The abstract was enough for me.

BEP

z_p_e

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2007, 12:08:25 AM »

@all or @z_p_e

On the large TPU he has two yellow caps that remind me of crossover capacitors for audio. From your experience on the size of those caps, are they generally used for low frequency woofer, midrange or for a high frequency tweeter?

Those caps aren't likely any larger than 10uF or 22uF max. They could also be much lower in value but with a higher voltage rating, however, I would assume that as SM has dabbled in loudspeaker/cross-over design, they are probably between 1uF and 22 uF.

The two larger electrolytics we see near the ring perimeter are likely for output filtering, and the components across them bleed-off or equalizing resistors.

otto

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2007, 07:36:27 AM »
Hello all,

@BEP

just look at the 3stack.jpg and look very carefully!!! What do you see??

Dont say you see only 3 collectors with controls!! Take your time and look!!! Think about that the TPU is 44mm high, or for our US friends 1 3/4".

I must say that I builded my 3stack TPU and it works fine but I made a mistake and have to do it again.

Otto

Gustav22

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2007, 09:12:32 AM »
...
just look at the 3stack.jpg and look very carefully!!! What do you see??

Hi Otto,
I see this:
Quote from: SM
About the collector:
It is three separate coils of multi strand copper wire laid one on
top of the other, not interleaved.
Three is important.
You can do many things with three coils.
You can run them in parallel, you can run two in series and one in
parallel, or etc.
You can run a separate frequency into each coil for better control
on large power units if need be.
The control wiring is vertically wound in several segments around
each of the horizontal collector coils.
Other control wires are wound around all of the horizontal
collector coils together.

But please tell us what exactly YOU see. Please, no guessing games.
Bitte Otto, keine ratespiele, wenn's nicht unbedingt sein muss.

Viel erfolg, und mach hinne ...  ;) :)

otto

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2007, 09:39:57 AM »
Hello all,

@Gustav22

maybe this time I can post??

Look at the distances between the collectors and at the distances between each collector and control coil.

Otto

Grumpy

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Re: Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2007, 08:29:52 PM »
If you look...
« Last Edit: December 19, 2007, 04:23:22 PM by Grumpy »