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Author Topic: swhich permanent magnet on and off  (Read 27402 times)

Offline Omnibus

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2007, 02:25:31 AM »
It would be interesting to see whether placing soft iron between a magnet spun by a DC motor makes a difference (produces more energy than the energy needed to spin the motor) when that spinning causes a magnet attached to a generator to spin. As the experiment is now, however, such conclusion (that spinning the primary magnet produces more energy in th secondary magnet) cannot be made with certainty.

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2007, 02:25:31 AM »

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2007, 04:02:14 AM »
It would be interesting to see whether placing soft iron between a magnet spun by a DC motor makes a difference (produces more energy than the energy needed to spin the motor) when that spinning causes a magnet attached to a generator to spin. As the experiment is now, however, such conclusion (that spinning the primary magnet produces more energy in th secondary magnet) cannot be made with certainty.

What I learn so far is that ferromagnetic materials shield better.

I've remixed the video here

http://forum.go-here.nl/viewtopic.php?p=452

What do you think, is it more clear like this? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4nDAuob2rQ
YouTube - Magnetmotor - flux switching

« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 04:57:53 AM by gaby de wilde »

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2007, 12:21:32 PM »
Nice remix Gaby  ;D

Okay so let me get this right.

Take two motors and place a magnet on each.
Place a shield between the two with it closest to the primary.
Power primary motor up and spin primary magnet.
Secondary magnet will spin and play catch up.
Meaure output of Secondary motor?

Is this correct, or am I just not getting it?

Cheers

Sean.


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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2007, 12:21:32 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2007, 01:03:07 PM »
(http://magnetmotor.googlepages.com/counter-rotating-fields.gif)

Left is a primary axle with a magnet on top. Right is a secondary axle with a magnet on top. If there was no shield the secondary magnet would rotate along with the primary 1:1 With the shielding placed as illustrated (close to the domain wall a bit towards the primary side) the secondary magnet is is disconnected from the primary 2 times per rotation.

While the primary is facing the shield with both it's north and it's south pole (it's side) there isn't any flux propagated beyond it. Here the secondary axle stops and waits for the primary to move beyond this point. The moment the primary has moved beyond 50/50 induction the secondary will leap over the gap and catch up. The catching up power comes out of the magnet.

I can leave the primary in any position and it will just stay there. It's merely pulling the secondary into it's mirrored position when facing the shield. Should not be hard to test.  Just remember to place the conductor closer to the primary magnet.

I would like to get some feedback on this.

Conservation of energy talks should be addressed here  ;)

http://einsteinhoax.com


Why is the magnet on the right rotating in 45 degrees - 135 degrees - 45 degrees - 135 degrees etc.? Shouldn't it be 45 - 45 - 45 - 45 etc. but slower than the magnet on the left side?

Vidar

Offline Low-Q

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2007, 02:42:16 PM »
(http://magnetmotor.googlepages.com/counter-rotating-fields.gif)


I have investigated this a bit. When the magnets are pointing same polarity towards each other, it's possible to balance the forces to zero in x-plane. If you turn each magnet 45 degrees, clockwise for left and counter clockwise for right, the metal shielding between them will be forced up or down, the attraction between the magnets and the metal shield is also encreasing rapidly.
To be short: There is sticky spots which will force the magnets to "rest" in one or more particular possitions, so the rotation is not possible to do without using energy.

The same will happen when the magnets are round.

Vidar

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2007, 02:42:16 PM »
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Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2007, 06:40:57 PM »
(http://magnetmotor.googlepages.com/counter-rotating-fields.gif)
Left is a primary axle with a magnet on top. Right is a secondary axle with a magnet on top. If there was no shield the secondary magnet would rotate along with the primary 1:1 With the shielding placed as illustrated (close to the domain wall a bit towards the primary side) the secondary magnet is is disconnected from the primary 2 times per rotation.

While the primary is facing the shield with both it's north and it's south pole (it's side) there isn't any flux propagated beyond it. Here the secondary axle stops and waits for the primary to move beyond this point. The moment the primary has moved beyond 50/50 induction the secondary will leap over the gap and catch up. The catching up power comes out of the magnet.

I can leave the primary in any position and it will just stay there. It's merely pulling the secondary into it's mirrored position when facing the shield. Should not be hard to test.

Just remember to place the conductor closer to the primary magnet.
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3650.0;attach=14726;image)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/twomags.jpg)
12 different metal strips tested: Soft Aluminium, Brass, Copper, Mild Steel, Magnetic Stainless Steel, NON Magnetic Stainless Steel, Galvanised Steel, Hard Aluminium, Phosphor Bronze, Nickel Silver, Zinc Plated Mild Steel, Zinc
(http://www.overunity.org.uk/metals.jpg)

Movie showing all 12 metals being tested.
http://www.overunity.org.uk/CLaNZeR-doing-Gabys-PM-switch-test.wmv
I've remixed the video here

http://forum.go-here.nl/viewtopic.php?p=452
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4nDAuob2rQ

square is better tho
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3650.0;attach=14725;image)

Will have a go with some small square Neo's tomorrow mate for you.
But I think you have proved your point and the saturation of the shield does stop the reaction on the opposite magnet.

Now show us how this could be used to get that free energy!!!

(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3650.0;attach=14730;image)
You stick a big magnet on a small electromotor, place the shield next to it big generator at the other side.  I attached an image of the electrical setup we should work towards.

Can make it as big as you like.  As long as it keeps spinning a big chunk of the load should just disappear in the coupling.  (At least that's what I expect to happen.)
Nice remix Gaby  ;D

Okay so let me get this right.

Take two motors and place a magnet on each.
Place a shield between the two with it closest to the primary.
Power primary motor up and spin primary magnet.
Secondary magnet will spin and play catch up.
Measure output of Secondary motor?

Is this correct, or am I just not getting it?

Yeah, that would be exactly the picture I had in mind :)

I didn't build anything of the sort tho. I enjoy thinking about it to much. It doesn't look that way but there are already a lot of different effects in this simple device. I have other weird effects I'm looking at but this one looks great also.

John Ecklin spins a rotor closing the loop on a horse shoe magnet.
(http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/john-ecklin.png)
http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/john-ecklin

He uses the flux to power a coil.

Wesley Gary inducts flux into a strip sitting between 2 magnets.
(http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/wesley-gary.png)
http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/wesley-gary

I'm spinning Ecklin's magnet rather then then it's core and I'm using that to induct flux into Mr Gary's strip.

huhuhuhu
____
http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2007, 06:41:07 PM »
double post.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2007, 06:41:07 PM »
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Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2007, 08:13:58 PM »
Will rig up a coupla small 12 volt DC motors this week and let ya know!


Offline Omnibus

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2007, 08:34:53 PM »
Sean, I'm all ears--can't wait to see what happens. How are you going to measure the input and the output electric energy?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2007, 08:34:53 PM »
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Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2007, 08:40:39 PM »
Sean, I'm all ears--can't wait to see what happens. How are you going to measure the input and the output electric energy?

Got a couple of DC motors rated 6-12V with 9.2v being nominal, so will feed it with a pwm to vary the speed and place an amp meter in line.

Then grab the output and place a amp meter and volt meter inline on the output followed by a variable load.

Still not 100% sure what I am meant to be seeing as it seems that the primary will be doing alot more work.
But as usual I can only go for the manual proof as my brain is not capable of doing the maths and theory and as usual I need to do the test manually.

We will see LOL

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2007, 09:26:20 PM »
Got a couple of DC motors rated 6-12V with 9.2v being nominal, so will feed it with a pwm to vary the speed and place an amp meter in line. Then grab the output and place a amp meter and volt meter inline on the output followed by a variable load.

It should be easy enough?

Quote
Still not 100% sure what I am meant to be seeing as it seems that the primary will be doing a lot more work.

Maybe to much "iron" for the size of the magnets.  You use a fixed distances and  a fixed magnet size. My magnets are probably weaker and more square. My shield is much thinner. I hold the primary and the shield with my hands.

Quote
But as usual I can only go for the manual proof as my brain is not capable of doing the maths and theory and as usual I need to do the test manually. We will see LOL

Yes, I'm with you on this one. Why hurt the brain and make much much mistakes while doing so when we can have the actual real world results? It's like a dinner compared to a menu card?  :D In stead of windows movie maker we would be using excel? It would be horribly boring? lol

Have you tried the neo's jet? Just stick one on an axle and hold the rest with your hands. That will allow you to test different distances in the blink of an eye.  It would take a small army of mathematicians to equal it. Funny, but no joke.  :D

Try find a configuration where you are convinced a motor would work.  If you just build it  it won't have ideal configuration.

Lets try get it right the first time? That would be the joke of the day.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2007, 09:26:20 PM »
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Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2007, 09:38:47 PM »
Try find a configuration where you are convinced a motor would work.  If you just build it  it won't have ideal configuration.

Lets try get it right the first time? That would be the joke of the day.

hehe if we could get it right the first time, it would be no fun  ;D ;D

I am gonna order some bigger cube magnets to place on the motor axles and make an adjustable shield mount so the distance can be varied.
Any suggestion on the size of the cubes? Ferro or Neo?


« Last Edit: November 26, 2007, 01:21:15 PM by CLaNZeR »

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2007, 11:53:33 PM »
Try find a configuration where you are convinced a motor would work.  If you just build it  it won't have ideal configuration. Lets try get it right the first time? That would be the joke of the day.
hehe if we could get it right the first time, it would be no fun  ;D ;D
I agree, we would probably be very confused what to do. We should probably get there slowly leaving a big heap of hypothesis, drawings youtube videos, machines etc - ART   ;)
Quote
I am gonna order some bigger cube magnets to place on the motor axles and make an adjustable shield mount so the distance can be varied.
Any suggestion on the size of the cubes? Ferro or Neo?
You have anymore of those flat magnets? You can always stack 2 or 3. Not sure why it took me 2 days to come up with this. lol

Offline gaby de wilde

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2007, 02:45:18 AM »
As the experiment is now, however, such conclusion (that spinning the primary magnet produces more energy in th secondary magnet) cannot be made with certainty.

I'm facinated by how weird this effect is. How hard it is to explain away what happens.

Here are the 2 patents :-)

<a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=HW0xAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PP2&ci=148,177,777,532&source=bookclip"><img src="http://www.google.com/patents?id=HW0xAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP2&img=1&zoom=4&hl=en&sig=E9_vqwPWKvTIpuC5Qj59Ds_0ppo&ci=148,177,777,532&edge=1" border="0" alt="Text not available"/></a><br/><a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=HW0xAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PP2&ci=148,177,777,532&source=bookclip">PERMANENT MAGNET MOTION CONVERSION DEVICE&nbsp;John W. Ecklin</a>
<a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=hxxoAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PP1&ci=94,713,751,619&source=bookclip"><img src="http://www.google.com/patents?id=hxxoAAAAEBAJ&pg=PP1&img=1&zoom=4&hl=en&sig=vMks9J8xZ1MyU7Eiif6VW7Bi_uw&ci=94,713,751,619&edge=1" border="0" alt="Text not available"/></a><br/><a href="http://www.google.com/patents?id=hxxoAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&pg=PP1&ci=94,713,751,619&source=bookclip">VIOTORS&nbsp;WESLEY- W. GABY</a>

Offline CLaNZeR

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Re: swhich permanent magnet on and off
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2007, 04:26:28 PM »
Well started on the magnet mounts onto the motors today.

Find below the pictures of progress so far.

Next on the list is to mount the motors on some board with an adjustable shield and wire up my Pulse Motor controller to vary the speed.

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/mot1.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/mot2.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/mot3.jpg)

(http://www.overunity.org.uk/mot4.jpg)

More to come.

Cheers

Sean.

 

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