HairBear

Take a look at this link:  http://www.tfcbooks.com/patents/coil.htm


Anyone know who Praktik's talking to?  Who's uncle Fester?

Thank you for that link. Now can you show me where Lawton had used this type of winding? I'm not questioning your integrity or anything in a mean way even though I may write like it. I just want to make sure the info is genuine. It seems RAVI is still around posting comments on his videos and he says that both him and Lawton have been raided or something like that, so, they are not talking anymore. From the information that both of them have posted, there are still a lot of details not mentioned. I have replicated Dave and RAVI's setup and I get exactly what they get. It looks good but the gas is not all that much. At least not enough to run a small lawnmower size engine. So, for me, there is still something missing like the electron inhibitor circuit. No one ever talks about that piece of the puzzle.... yet.


Cheers

Thanks Praktik

Page 2 seems so long ago I'd forgotten uncle Festers post.

I believe there are clues, more often than not, over-looked with reference to the Meyer-type production of H2 & O2.  The more I investigate things the more I think that we are over-complicating the theory, and that indeed the process is not as mind boggling as we are often led to believe.

One important clue is the fact that Meyer-type wfc's run cool and that standard electrolysis will quite quickly boil the water.  Research will tell you that ionisation is an endothermic reaction (ie. it draws energy in the form of heat from the environment), so ionising water should be a cool process. And, it is. It is only the fact that the non-water ions (electrolyte or mineral impurity anions and cations) that carry the a large quantity of charges through the water in standard electrolysis generate this heat during the hustle and bustle of movement.  Remember that the electrolyte we add to water carries the current but does not actively take part in any reaction at the electrodes.

In standard electrolysis the water molecule is not ionising and then itself travelling to the electrodes, rather it is ionising at the electrodes, thereby generating no heat of travel itself.  Hence, it's not the water ionising that heats up the water, it's the current flow of the electrolyte ions.

So, if we can simply encourage the water to ionise without the help of charge carrying electrolyte ions, the cell will run cool.

I've seen Meyer's depictions of electrons being extracted from the water molecule, and this simply makes no sense whatsoever.  It is unclear just how many electrons Meyer thought he was pulling from the water molecule (I've seen depictions of 3), but even if you could pull away the two hydrogen electrons, this would leave you with 2 +ve hydrogen ions and a neutral oxygen atom. In this scenario, there would be nothing attracted to the anode other than the electrons - hence no gas given off at the anode.  None of this makes sense and I think is an example of the over-complication I speak of.

It makes far more sense to assume the easy and obvious, and work forward from there one step at a time. And, if the most obvious proves not to be the case, move on again to the next most obvious idea.

To me the obvious answer is that by pulsing, all we are doing is encouraging the water molecule itself to ionise at the electrodes, so we do not require a high electrolyte ion flow through the water.

I'm also now suspecting that it may have nothing to do with dielectric breakdown (either of the chromium oxide or the water itself), as this would likely cause high current arcing.  We do not get this!

I'm almost convinced we are trying too hard, looking too deep for the answers.

What then of our white calcium coating on the cathode?

Well, this is obviously a natural reaction of the minerals (mostly calcium carbonate) in the water, but it does help the process by producing a very high resistance layer that drastically reduces current leakage through the cell.  I think that it allows enough charges through to react with the hydrogen ions, but very little surplus charge to react with ion impurities (remember that the hydroxyl and hydrogen ions are more electrochemically reactive than other anions or cations in the water). Or, as it makes for a better capacitor with the calcium compound layer, there is always a surplus of charges on the electrodes, which act to maintain ionisation during off pulses.  Hence, less power is required.  Or possibly a combination of both!

This is where I'm going to be focusing my experimentation. I'm going to assume this is what is happening and try to devise a way of either proving or disproving it. 

I then have my game plan.

Hi Raz

Glad to have you on board.

I've played through hundreds of ideas and theories in my mind and on paper, trying to get a handle on the science that could be behind them, but many seem to be in the realms of fantasy indeed having no real scientific foundation on which they are based.  And, I truly believe that the main source of the problem comes back to Meyer's limited understanding of science and electronics alied with his eagerness to produce over-complicated, very scientific jargon-filled - but ultimately nonsensical - patents and technical briefs.

For me now, it comes down to one simple point. Ionisation of the water molecule. And, however it is achieved the reaction equation and results are the same, so everything balances as it should.  We simply have a more efficient way of encouraging the water to ionise - as simple as that!

What is unknown at present it seems, is the mechanics of exatly how this is achieved.  Yes we know pulsing and voltage play a part, as indeed must charges on the electrodes, but we don't know exactly how it is all coming together.

You'll find that the calcium carbonate works a treat, though you are best to do it in stages, removing the cell from the water and letting it dry out periodically (every 2 - 3 hours after a 0.5 amp dc run I found to be effective). If you don't do this, the coating does not harden very well. By removing the cell periodically, the coating hardens (I think effectively cures like cement).  Also it is less likely to flake of as it dries when you build up thin layers at a time.

The bifilar coil according to Tesla is capable of storing many times more energy than a simple inductor, so may be a key factor in efficient energy exchanging.  Again this may well tie in with other factors.

Dogs, I know uses a high resistance (10 meg, I think) in his Meyer-like cct replication. But as we know, a resistor will only waste energy, dissipating it in the form of heat, so I'm not inclined to go that way.  Inductors being very much more energy efficient are surely the way to go.

Wouldn't it be funny if the critical pulsing frequency had little to do with the wfc capacitance, and all to do with the frequency at which the inductors would create the greatest opposition to current flow?  Our wfc capacitor would still charge over time, and hence ionisation can take place, but little or no current would be able to flow through the cct.

I feel very close to a 'Eureka' moment!

Hi Raz

I too have been round and round in circles trying to understand what can be occuring and what holds the key - you get to a point where your mind starts to boggle with info and misinfo - but as I said above I think we may simply be looking too hard and being confused by Meyer.

In his technical briefs, Meyer often talks about the dielectric constant of water being around 78, and then goes on to tell us that you can use any old water.  I take most things he says with a pinch of salt as he continually trips up over science and blatantly contradicts himself from one page to another. He even gives the dielectric constant of water as 78 ohms on one page!

Deionised water is great for experimenting with. If you can cause this to greatly ionise then your on the right path, but as it's nearly as expensive as petrol it's pointless to consider using it all the time.

Tap water as you say, conducts fairly well, but nowhere near as well as the metal wiring in the cct, and of course it is this water resistance that produces heat in normal dc electrolysis. 

Now, once we find the solution to get deionised water to ionise, we can then substitute it for tap water as we will at this stage know how to ionise the water without using heavy current. However, as you rightly pointed out, (and this used to be my major headache) once we apply a good voltage across our tap water we will naturally cause standard high current electrolysis to also take place.... unless, that is, we devise a cct to limit current flow.  This I think is what Meyer's so-called, 'electron inhibiting device, extractor cct or whatever', is all about.  We no longer need the high current flow, but we need to inhibit the natural curent flow through tap water while maintaining all the criteria for our new method of ionisation.

I think that maybe the coating on the cathode (which is very high resistance) helps us to naturally inhibit this current flow.

Perhaps, in reality it has very little to do with the capacitance of our cells and the relationship between our cell and the inductors is not so important. More important perhaps is the relationship between the pulse frequency and inductor/s to create the greatest inductive reactance, and the voltage with which to induce ionisation.

Just my current thoughts... but I reserve the right to change my mind at any point!

The Frequency is important because if we put in a pulse we are charging the inductors.We need to time this frequency so the inductors get fully charged and then put a 0 signal (gate time) so the charged inductor can now discharge. This timing is important and we would have to calculate this using the RC time relationship of our inductors.

When im using lawton circuit and im probing the Drain pin of the mosfet with my scope, I see spikes of over 200 volts. Do you know y that is??