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Author Topic: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.  (Read 373911 times)

EMdevices

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2007, 05:24:37 PM »
Thank you for your patience everyone.  Here's a visual diagram of the circuit operation.

Component Values:

In the 2.5 hour configuration, I used,    R = 1 Mohm and C = 1.5 uF
The main electolitic is 1000 uF.

Number of turns: 
   15 for Recapture coil,
   30 for Colector coil (2 coils of 15 turns each), 
   7   for Trigger coil

The operation depends on two oscillator types in one circuit:  

 Ã‚  1)   RELAXATION type oscillator  (RC time constant determines interval between pulses), and  

   2)   BLOCKING type oscillator, for a one time flux driven triggered pulse (Monostable operation)

Uses for this can be quite varied.  But I'm sure most agree it's a neat simple and efficient way to generate timing pulses for driving other circuits, or just as a fun blinker.  However, since it's so efficient, I believe that it will alow us to find OU operation due to it's sensitivity.

EM
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 05:55:42 PM by EMdevices »

hartiberlin

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2007, 06:50:23 PM »
Great design EM !
So you are now using only 3 coils.

Maybe just put a few LEDs in parallel so you get more current from the
spike back into the cap.

Did you try more windings on the last induction coil with the LED ?

Did you try to measure voltage spikes from the last LED coil ?


Regards, Stefan.

hartiberlin

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2007, 06:59:27 PM »
Hi EM,
could you please post some scopeshots of the voltage at the base to emitter
and at the LED anode versus emitter ?

This circuit would probably work much better with a big transformer iron core
as you would get much bigger spikes from it.

Regards, Stefan.

wattsup

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2007, 07:02:02 PM »
@EM

Is that a special type of transistor and also can you say what is the ferrit diameter.

I am thinking if there was a small inductor inside the ferrit core, maybe some extra mag field could be again sent back to the circuit in parallel to the big cap. May be enough to have magnet start.

I'll ask z_p_e about transistors on the Faux Pas thread.

EMdevices

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2007, 08:45:25 PM »
Stefan, I played with the coils a bit, in parallel and series.  The smallest amount of coils needed is 3, but more can be useful for experimenting.   The center tap on the trigger coil was there from another experiment, and I played with that a bit as well.  The spikes voltage from the kickback rises to Vcap + Vdiode.   So a diode with the smalles drop would also improve efficiency. Removing the diode makes it work longer, but you can't see it , what fun is that. (there are still losses so it appears to also come to a stop)  If I don't connect the reclaim coil to the cap and instead to a resistor, then the voltage can go realy high, it's just the normal kickback from an inductor.    The blocking oscillator function involved in triggering the spike, has a very sharp transition (small risetime and fall time) so this can rise the voltage quite high if not connected to anything. (or high impedance)

wattsup,  the transistor is a simple NPN switching type I bought from radioshack,   It has a  beta = 200,   so small base current x 200 gives the collector current.    pese was suggesting using germanium transistors because they have lower Vce drop and lower Vbe activation voltage.    I would also say to use a transistor with as high a beta as possible.  Ferrite diameter is about 1.5 inches (about 4 cm)

I'll do some scope shots tonight when I get home.

EM

P.S.  In my picture of the circuit, you will see a resistor and diode connected to the main electrolitic, that's a zener diode at 5.5 V and the resistor about 400 ohms.    I placed that there for safety, just in case I had a runaway even,  shows optimism doesn't it ?   LOL   :D
« Last Edit: November 14, 2007, 10:40:53 PM by EMdevices »

hoptoad

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2007, 11:48:41 PM »
@EMDevices

Great stuff mate! I'm glad you decided to upload a schematic and some more info. It gives all of us a chance to replicate what you've achieved and to experiment further. Good on you!  ;)

Cheers from the Toad who Hops   :)

EMdevices

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2007, 02:01:59 AM »
thanks guys,

here's the scope shots. Notice the time scale is different, I had to zoom way in on the pulse so you can see it's width.  Notice how rapidly it turns on and off, it's that feedback from the trigger coil. 

EM

wattsup

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2007, 04:31:16 AM »
@EM

Hope you are getting some sleep.

On the photo there are three wires, yellow, orange and red that seem to be from the trigger coil(s). Is the yellow wire center tapped to the trigger coil?

There are also more resistors on the photo then I can see on the circuit diagram.

Last thing I am asking myself is if this is a sensitive circuit, can all those breadboard internal conductors under the circuit act as a receptor, or maybe an added load mass, that is either helping or hindering in some way the final OU aspect. Are the conductors inside a breadboard magnetic or diamagnetic? Since your coil is vertical over those conductors, there could be some unwanted stray north and south fields going around the breadboard. Geez, am I repeating myself.

karl

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2007, 07:11:49 AM »
Hi EM,
is it possible or legal for you to integrate an suction effect to reinsert the lost electrons?
from a grounded wire or a cube of aluminium?
You know where the electrons are gone?
Maybe as photons when it is fully encapsulated in resin.
Rub the resin and let it go again.
Or use a solar panel housing, the you have got an even better heatpump.
It's your development.
Fantastic principle, first place in my charts.
Maybe integrate it in a Distatica.
Nice day
kaRLfunkel

hartiberlin

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2007, 08:48:57 AM »
Many thanks EM for posting all the infos.
Too bad I am not at home for the next 2 days, so I wouldhave already tried your
circuit as I have all components lying around at home.

Hope somebody else will soon replicate it.

Regards, Stefan.

hartiberlin

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2007, 12:31:52 AM »
Hi EM,
please can you also show a scopeshot accross
the 1000 uF cap ?

And also one across the trigger coil ?
Maybe also directly also across the other 2coils ?
Many thanks.

P.S: Nobody yet tried to rebuild it ?

Would be interesting to see, if the output coil,
where the LED is connected to, if it had more windings, would
also put out more energy in this spike which recharges the capacitor...

EM, what if you change the 1.5 uF cap to 100nF or lower capacitance and so reduce
the losses and might speed up the frequency ?

wattsup

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2007, 06:32:10 AM »
@All

Geez, this will be my very first circuit I ever build. I feel like American Idol?s William Hung. Hey "No formal training".

Almost all together. Bought the wrong led. The one shown needs at least 8.5 volts. I guess it should light at around 1 volt. Is it possible to light at less?

On the board I am showing one of many little ready made transformer gadgets that I already had. The blank ferrite core comes from one of these ready made ones. Unwinding those wires are dangerous for your eyes and fingers.

Now the windings are confusing me because the diagram shows three coils, but the photo shows 4 and EM's instructions talk of four. So I am lost at this point and need some clarification. If there are two coils and one trigger, what are the turns?

I also added an enlargement of EM's circuit.

hartiberlin

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #42 on: November 16, 2007, 10:23:02 AM »
Hi Wattsup,
good to see you working on it.

What kind of LED doyou have ?

Just a normal 5 mm or 3 mm will do, which usually have a treshold voltageof around 2.5 to 2.7 Volts,
before they light up.Some might even need around 3 Volts.

And  EMdevices posted his coil specs already, so I quote:
===========================


Component Values:

In the 2.5 hour configuration, I used,    R = 1 Mohm and C = 1.5 uF
The main electolitic is 1000 uF.

Number of turns:
   15 for Recapture coil,
   30 for Colector coil (2 coils of 15 turns each),
   7   for Trigger coil

===========================================

So he is using for the collector coil 2 coils in series of each 15 turns giving 30 turns.

I guess for the basic oscillation effect you could play with the number of turns
a bit to get it into oscillation.

The question still is, what the best turn ratios are for this selfrunning
operation..?

Calibrator

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2007, 05:29:34 AM »
Excellent job EM...
I have a question for you...what would happen if you added a second control coil in phase with the first control coil
and located on the opposite side (180 degrees)?

Cheers

Calibrator

duff

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Re: Self Running Micro TPU, with closed loop.
« Reply #44 on: November 17, 2007, 06:21:17 AM »
@EM

I successfully replicated your circuit today.

I'm getting 14 minutes run time which is probably due to a difference in our core material. Used a mps8099, hfe 154. I tried replacing the led with a germanium diode but it didn't make a significant difference.

Neat circuit - certainly merits further experimenting.


-Duff
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 05:07:02 PM by duff »