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Author Topic: Being Decent To Each Other  (Read 24507 times)

Offline nightlife

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2007, 02:54:04 AM »
Omnibus, xpenzif's idea is not one that I considered do to the lack of power it would create.

 I posted a design I had for a pulse motor but I later found that some have already been built. I then deleted my what I posted hoping that no one was able to fill in the blanks I left untold. I did that because it is obvious that we have people out there keeping these inventions from hitting the market for everyday people to use.

 Since then, I have looked to see what others have been working on and found that the only ones we hear about are those that have failed and or can not produce enough power for us to even consider using.

 I have found a few that have no choice but to work if they were only put together and timed properly. I don't want to mention them or what is needed to change them because I don't want them kept from being produced. I am trying to sell all the property's I own so that I can fund the production of enough to get the ball rolling.

 All I will say is that I am glad that we do have away to change things for the better for all mankind and not just a hand full like our governments makes it better for.

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2007, 02:54:04 AM »

Offline Omnibus

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2007, 02:59:26 AM »
Omnibus, xpenzif's idea is not one that I considered do to the lack of power it would create.

 I posted a design I had for a pulse motor but I later found that some have already been built. I then deleted my what I posted hoping that no one was able to fill in the blanks I left untold. I did that because it is obvious that we have people out there keeping these inventions from hitting the market for everyday people to use.

 Since then, I have looked to see what others have been working on and found that the only ones we hear about are those that have failed and or can not produce enough power for us to even consider using.

 I have found a few that have no choice but to work if they were only put together and timed properly. I don't want to mention them or what is needed to change them because I don't want them kept from being produced. I am trying to sell all the property's I own so that I can fund the production of enough to get the ball rolling.

 All I will say is that I am glad that we do have away to change things for the better for all mankind and not just a hand full like our governments makes it better for.
Well, good luck to you. So far I have only heard promises in that practical aspect you mention. As for me all that matters is the scientific aspect of this problem (once Science is good practice will inevitably follow) and so far I haven't seen anything better in this respect than @xpenzif's.

Offline nightlife

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2007, 03:11:10 AM »
 Something else is the fact that I cant be the only to one figure out the things I have. It was to simple to figure out. The problem I have found are that everyone of the motors I have seen fail because the inventor cant get passed the gates. It is to simple to get through them but yet no one seems to have one. Is this some kind of joke? Is the average that naive?

 I am a POS 9th grade drop out and there is no way that I can be the only one to figure out how to get passed the gates. I will admit I am 41 years old with 25 years in the auto repair business but there are top scientist that say it is impossible. Why? It must be because they are made not to disclose their findings. I don't really know why but I do not want to take the chance of anyone keeping what I have learned from the people who need it most.
 Every time I figure one out, I right it down and give it to a different person to put up incase something happens to me. If something should happen to me, they have orders to open the envelopes and do as instructed in them.

 Be assured that some day soon, the truth will come out and a new energy source will be provided at a very inexpensive cost for all.

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2007, 03:11:10 AM »
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Offline linda933

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2007, 03:34:16 AM »
"I have personally came across a few that can work if they just changed and or added a couple things. You all would not believe how close a couple of these members are to achieving over unity using just permanent magnets. I have figured out a way to achieve over unity using electronic magnets and now thanks to a few others here, I now can do it using permanent magnets."  ~ Nightlife


It is this kind of statement, which announces that something totally unprecedented and heretofore deemed impossible by the laws of science has been "figured out" (implying an actual proof, at least to self) yet offers no evidence, no explanation of the elusive key, no statement of what has been actually achieved and no details for potential replication...these are the very type of statements that engender the most vicious attacks.

When offering that you have achieved something amazing and totally unprecedented, it might be wise to offer it far more humbly as a "I think maybe...but have not yet proven it" or offer it with some good evidence and a clear statement of what you have actually achieved if it goes beyond just thinking in circles until you have convinced yourself it will work.

Why do people feel like attacking this sort of announcement?  Simple:  It's incredibly arrogant to make such claims in the face of the thousands of failed attempts over hundreds of years of effort.  Not only is it arrogant, it is getting to be very old around here.  So many claims!  Just read half the thread titles..."Successful this...Proof Positive of that...The Answer to this...The Solution to that"...yet, in reading and reviewing the actual materials, the promises of the titles never materialize.

I think the reason why so many good folks find themselves attacking the posts of others is the sheer arrogance that is displayed and the totally unsupported claims of astonishing achievements.  In the end, as far as I can tell after reading nearly everything here, no one has really done what they claim so arrogantly to have done. 

When so much honest effort over so many centuries by so many good people has brought forth so little in terms of actual useful results, it is indeed an insult to any thinking reader for someone to make claims to achieving what has previously been so elusive when the claimant offers nothing but the claim itself as evidence! 

I find the hundreds of false, premature and inaccurate claims made regarding overunity and free energy to be a huge and continuing insult to critical-thinking people and all genuine researchers. 

That's my opinion about why there is so much ridiculing and hostility made against many claimants and I feel it is totally justified when the claim is made arrogantly and without evidence or supporting material or even a clear statement of exactly what is being claimed.  It just irks the crap out of anyone with a smidgen of scientific methodology and critical thinking ability to hear such casual yet outlandish claims so often!

So...if you don't want to get your head torn off by critical skeptics, do your homework...most of scientific research involves showing exactly how the theoretical claim stands up under the most ferocious attacks (attacks meaning attempts to find fault with the claimant's science, not their personality). 

It is always the same numbskulls who make these casual and unsupported claims that always think they are being personally attacked when the first critical questions are asked!  If you look at the threads, the best of the hated debunkers always attack using straightforward and (to the claimant) extremely awkward, pointed questions.  That is 100% the object and method of scientific research!

It is invariably the casual arrogant claimant who then, rather than answering the hard question that will reveal his error, will begin a personal attack against the skeptic.  It happens time and time again.  Read through the posts where the toughest skeptics beam in with straight questions...you'll see it every time. 

The attitude here is that it is sacreligious to question claims and those who make them.  As long as that attitude exists, and the toughest skeptics are personally attacked or even banned for pounding the hard questions, this forum will not be doing science but rather will remain a private club for mutual delusion and egocentric circulation of false claims. 

Attacks using hard scientific method made against casual yet incredible and unsupported claims MUST be distinguished from personal attacks, as they are essential to the advancement of reality in science and engineering.  If you check it out, you'll find that the personal attacks always begin when the casual claimant, who is ego-involved with his delusion, refuses to accept the idea of applying simple scientific method and good quality testing and fights back by calling the skeptical enquirer an "oil-man" or a "worthless armchair detractor" or an "idiot" or something along those lines. 

Always, the person questioning the bad or absent science and/or inadequate methodology is attacked, excluded, insulted and, in the case of the best skeptics, banned as a "detractor".

Linda

Offline billmehess

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2007, 03:46:39 AM »
Hi Humbugger

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2007, 03:46:39 AM »
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Offline Omnibus

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2007, 04:03:26 AM »
Linda, I agree with almost everything you say except for the tendency to assume that incompetent people are skeptics. This is clearly seen when questions are raised regarding the only experiment so far definitively proving violation of CoE. You seem to miss this important point. Please make a distinction--an incompetent person is just incompetent and nothing else. To criticize without understanding even the fundamentals isn't called application of the scientific method. Questions posed by such people need not be answered and that doesn't mean that the proponent isn't true to Science. Quite the contrary. In saying this I would again say that I'm also annoyed by the unbridled tendency to make earthshaking announcements without any real facts to sustain them. The level of tolerance is too high in this respect. The coin, however, has two sides--the level of tolerance towards people cluttering the threads with sheer gibberish disguised as "skepticism" is even higher.

Offline Mr.Entropy

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2007, 04:08:31 AM »
Honestly, I don't know what y'all are on about.  Except for one or two bad apples, I find this forum to be remarkably civil.  Really.  It's impressive that otherwise-ordinary people with such conficting innate belief systems can converse anonymously on-line without everything going to hell.  Compare this forum to some usenet group where, say, liberals mix with neo-conservatives.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

[Edit: oh, I guess maybe Stefan deserves some credit here :-)]

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2007, 04:08:31 AM »
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Offline linda933

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #37 on: November 12, 2007, 04:16:39 AM »
Hi Humbugger


Already, the personal attacking begins!  You and Ashtweth...buddies or something?

Having read most of Humbugger's posts, I take it as a compliment to be compared and/or confused with such a person, an excellent example of a skeptic who was well-grounded in science and who was known to take the most vicious of insults and peronal attacks and still come back asking the same basic science questions that made the false-claimers writhe in agony.

In fact, I do recall a certain Mr. Mehess resorting to all kinds of rude personal insults such as "Kiss My Ass" and "Take some medication" when Humbugger got on his case for arrogantly making false overunity claims which...you guessed it...turned out to fall completely to pieces under even light scrutiny using basic scientific methods. 

Thank you Bill, for the complimentary comparison and for providing a perfect example of the hipocracy problem.  Your suggestions now, in light of your ugly personal attacks against Humbugger when he relentlessly questioned your lack of science and outrageous claims, proves my point perfectly!  Glad to hear you have seen the error of your ways!

Linda (not Humbugger, but thank you)

Offline nightlife

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2007, 04:20:50 AM »
linda933, thank you for that response.

 Just because you, I and or anyone hasn't seen what someone might have and or know, doesn't give you, I or anyone else the right to ridicule, disrespect, assume or call them names. We should all respectfully agree to disagree when we feel that the other is wrong or we feel they are testing our intelligence. All we can do is ask for them to provide proof and if they decline, we should just ignore them to keep from creating hard feelings and disrespectful arguments. If you, I and everyone else continue to ignore them, they may just show proof and or stop talking about it.

 There are ways to talk to each other with out hurting the others feelings. My post was used as an example to promote the response you posted.

 Thank you again and I hope I helped everyone who reads this to keep from letting their anger and frustration show in replies to others dreams, comments and or replies.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #38 on: November 12, 2007, 04:20:50 AM »
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Offline linda933

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #39 on: November 12, 2007, 04:25:13 AM »
Linda, I agree with almost everything you say except for the tendency to assume that incompetent people are skeptics. This is clearly seen when questions are raised regarding the only experiment so far definitively proving violation of CoE. You seem to miss this important point. Please make a distinction--an incompetent person is just incompetent and nothing else. To criticize without understanding even the fundamentals isn't called application of the scientific method. Questions posed by such people need not be answered and that doesn't mean that the proponent isn't true to Science. Quite the contrary. In saying this I would again say that I'm also annoyed by the unbridled tendency to make earthshaking announcements without any real facts to sustain them. The level of tolerance is too high in this respect. The coin, however, has two sides--the level of tolerance towards people cluttering the threads with sheer gibberish disguised as "skepticism" is even higher.

I am more or less in agreement, but I guess I just find it irritating as hell when people make claims with no evidence or science to support them and then refuse to put forth such when asked but, instead, launch into a tirade of personal insults.  As if extraordinary claims were to be simply believed at once by all and the mere asking for evidence and theoretical/physical/mathematical proof were some kind of personal insult.

I find the "clutter level" to contain about 99% pseudo-scientific false claims of superior knowledge and mumbo jumb and about 1% skepticism, whether gibberish skepticism or good scientific argument.  Until there is a reasonable balance between blind belief in every wild claim and any kind of skepticism, I'm a lot more concerned about the 99.

Linda

Offline linda933

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2007, 04:35:00 AM »
linda933, thank you for that response.

 Just because you, I and or anyone hasn't seen what someone might have and or know, doesn't give you, I or anyone else the right to ridicule, disrespect, assume or call them names. We should all respectfully agree to disagree when we feel that the other is wrong or we feel they are testing our intelligence. All we can do is ask for them to provide proof and if they decline, we should just ignore them to keep from creating hard feelings and disrespectful arguments. If you, I and everyone else continue to ignore them, they may just show proof and or stop talking about it.

 There are ways to talk to each other with out hurting the others feelings. My post was used as an example to promote the response you posted.

 Thank you again and I hope I helped everyone who reads this to keep from letting their anger and frustration show in replies to others dreams, comments and or replies.

So...your claim to have figured out the secret of eternally-self-running PM motors was just a test, huh?  Ohhhhhh....Kayyyyy!  Not sure I believe you but I'll let it slide...LOL

Anyhow...thank you for thanking me...I hope I can establish some kind of reputation of my very own here instead of just being called Humbugger every time I make a good post!  While it's a compliment in my mind, it's usually intended as an insult, I think, and an attempt to have me banned. 

Why, I do not know, but it is certainly very rude to make such accusations, thus stripping me of any chance to establish myself as a unique individual here!  Cool though how I am able to bring out the name-callers and hypocrites (healed, I hope) so easily!  Shame on you Bill!  LOL

Linda

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #40 on: November 12, 2007, 04:35:00 AM »
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Offline nightlife

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #41 on: November 12, 2007, 04:48:19 AM »
linda933, I am sorry to have used your response as an example but you were the first to respond. I do have projects that I am working on but not having the right equipment makes it tough to finish them. I wouldn't have said what I did except I thought it was a good way to get my point across. I don't post much but I read a lot and I try to stay up with things as much as possible.

 I do hope I didn't offend you and if I did, I do hope you accept my apology.

Offline billmehess

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #42 on: November 12, 2007, 04:54:09 AM »
What a shame, I never attacked anyone personally in this post it was nothing more than an attempt to address what I feel alot of people here would like to see, That is just simply to treat others in a more civil fashion. Sence the post has generated basicly no responce in favor of this I take it business will continue as usual.
I won't be posting here any longer. Nor bother to respond on any personal attacks on me.
I wish you all the best.
BIll

Offline nightlife

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2007, 04:59:42 AM »
 One thing that is hard to tell chatting online is if the other person is kidding or being serious. I have noticed that to be a problem at times and that is another reason we should always give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Offline linda933

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Re: Being Decent To Each Other
« Reply #44 on: November 12, 2007, 05:20:57 AM »
linda933, I am sorry to have used your response as an example but you were the first to respond. I do have projects that I am working on but not having the right equipment makes it tough to finish them. I wouldn't have said what I did except I thought it was a good way to get my point across. I don't post much but I read a lot and I try to stay up with things as much as possible.

 I do hope I didn't offend you and if I did, I do hope you accept my apology.

No no no,,,the only offense was by Mr. Mehess, the originator of this thread, who accuses me of being a previously-banned skeptical user.  I assume he does that with vicious intent, such as to attempt to have me banned, as a certain Mr. Ashtweth did recently.

My only question to you (is your name also Bill?  Is that the confusion?) is whether you are serious about your claim of having "figured out" the secret of free energy PM self-running motors.  Your posts seem to say you are definitely claiming this, keeping all details a secret and amassing your fortune in cash in order to support a production design and build.  Then on the other hand you sort of say you were using the claim as an example to incite and elicit a response like mine.  So, no...I'm not at all offended, just confused a bit.  And curious.

If you are making claim to having figured it out and are able to see the secret flaw in many others' work that keep them from success, you probably shouldn't tease us here on this open source forum by saying so and then clamming up.  Not that I care one way or the other, but it's a good way to get attacked by both skeptics and true believers!  Of course, the skeptics will only be able to dismiss you as another deluded or lying idiot since you throw them no meat to sourly regurgitate.  The open-source true believer replicators will tear you to bits for being a selfish bought-off money-grubbing bastard!

It's all pretty funny, in my opinion.  The only folks who seem to get bent out of shape are those who are committed fully to blind experimentation on dead ends.  Boy do they get upset when a skeptic bursts their bubble!   Sometimes it seems like there is an unwritten rule here that no one is to be respected unless they have wasted thousands of dollars and all of their free time for years chasing other people's poorly-described delusions or, at least, ancient charming unsolved mysteries.  

Anyone who comes along and says "Oh, it's easy to see that can't work and here is why", be they right or wrong, is despised as if they were a viper in a room full of innocent babies.  Yet anyone who comes along and says "I have the secret and I'm going to toss out vague hints for replicators" (ala SM and 10,000 others) gains an immediate guru status and a faithful eager following!  What a world we live in!  

It all goes to show that people want a magic panacea and are even willing to throw out all of the well-known science in exchange for a hopeful belief that they will end up getting something for nothing.  I think we'd all be much better off if we put the same effort into improving efficiency, reducing energy needs and perfecting the genuine, known-to-work green energy sources we already understand.  

But maybe you or someone else will prove me wrong on that one day soon.  I'm hoping and waiting!

Linda

 

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