Erfinder once said: "Study comes first and then construction! How can you build what you don't understand?".

I was going back through Steven Marks statements and the following got me thinking again. No one has a definitive answer for what the kick is.

SM: I told you that the simplest form of over unity is a piece of wire and a voltage source. Anyone can actually connect it and measure. See for yourself the kick. NO coil no xmrs, just a kick. That should tell you learned gentleman that there exists a form of energy convertible and useable which is directly related to a simple piece of wire and instantaneous electron flow.

The following is my effort to understand the kick using a straight piece of wire.

I removed the 0.01Ω resistor and attached the scope probes to the terminal block on the relay board where the 62 inch wire connects to the relays.

Pese,

I am only attempting to do the basic test here as SM states.

SM: I told you that the simplest form of over unity is a piece of wire and a voltage source. Anyone can actually connect it and measure. See for yourself the kick. NO coil no xmrs, just a kick.

-Duff

Duff,

I commend you for doing your homework. You have taken a first step, which most have not.

What were you expecting or hoping to see with this test and measurement? I am not trying to be facetious with this question.

May I suggest that you did not see anything unusual because you were measuring strictly voltage. Think about the current in the wire and the resulting (potential) mechanical aspects of this experiment.

One word of advice: DO NOT USE WIREWOUND RESISTORS WITH SWITCHING CIRCUITS IF YOU ARE EXPECTING PURELY RESISTIVE EFFECTS!

Wire wound resistors and fast rising/falling edges do not mix well. It's good that you eliminated the resistor in your last tests. It is interesting to note that there was very little (if any) inductive kickback using the copper wire, but the iron wire did in fact show some. I'm not suggesting iron wire was used in the TPU, just that it is an interesting difference considering the resistances were almost equal.

.

Duff "I do not have the math skills to calculate the energy under the kick in the last two scope shots. If someone could do that it might make an interesting comparison."

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I would like to make a suggestion to you and to all wannabe SM types.  Learn to measure energy.  Focus on developing tools, buying tools or whatever to accurately measure energy in your circuits.  Else you can prove nothing.  All I see are sloppy attempts to measure energy and it will lead you astray.

Duff, the energy as SM said is very small.  Perhaps TOO small for you to measure with your equipment or setup.  So I'll ask you, how do you measure things that are very small??

Well, how do you measure the weight of a grain of sand if all you have is a pound scale?  Well, you take a bunch of sand and you weigh a few pounds as exactly as you can and then you divide that by the number of sand grains. 

Does that give you any ideas?  Instead of trying to measure the supposed extra energy in one "sand grain", get more "sand grains".

SM said there is OU in a wire and a Voltage source.  If it's true (which we don't know since no one here has proven it as SM claimed), then we can assume from what he's told us, that it occurs when the current starts and/or stops (from the Tesla story).  So if you make a lot of starts and stops, you will get more OU in that wire for your set Voltage source, maybe enough to measure if you have the proper methodology.

I suggest you increase the resistance on your R (to increase the measurement time) and start/stop the voltage from your capacitor as many times as you can until the capacitor totally discharges.  Then try and measure if there is any increase in ENERGY versus the energy from a straight Capacitor discharge.

Measure:

1) Energy from a total discharge with no on/off cycles.  This is the energy in the cap

2) Energy from a total discharge with many on/off cycles.  This is the energy of the cap + any "extra" OU from each on/off cycle

Then compare these values.  Is SM telling the truth?  Is your setup correct?  Is there a better way to measure the values?  Is there a better experimental setup to use?

I also suggest you stick with the capacitor and make sure you have exactly the same Voltage each time you charge up your Cap.  This is good since the energy stored in a capacitor is fixed for a fixed voltage.  Unlike using a power supply, you don't know exactly what energy you're getting when you're using non DC power source.  Measuring non DC power is a lot more challenging than just using P=IV.

My other suggestion is to focus on making sure you have an accurate way to MEASURE the energy.  Don't calculate, measure.

I have not seen one setup that is using a proper power measurement technique!  For the sake of simplicity, how about just using a light bulb, a photo cell and simple circuit to add up the voltage over time?  It's not that hard but people just don't know what rigor means.  So sloppy!  How can you know anything when you can't even see what you're doing?  It's like building a house of cards in the dark.  TURN THE LIGHTS ON!

Rigor Duff, rigor.

Hi Duff,
many thanks for doing these great tests.

What is strange,
that  in iron wire pulse , the right part of
duff_20071030-5.jpg
there is this strange negative going pulse after 200 uSecs, just when the
voltage has reached zero volts.
Why is the voltage jumping there again ?
Makes no sense to me...

Is it just an artifact of the mechanical switch maybe or
what could it be ?

Also pretty interesting, that in the pure copper wire
you also have a spike there going up again after about 20 mikroseconds !?

Could this also be from the mechanical switch just conducting better at this timepoint
or is this the kick SM has meant ?

Please analyse these scopeshots more and let us know,
if they are dependable on the used mechanical switch.
I think, ifwe can find out the nature of these spike jumps
then we can come to a closer understanding of it all...

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

did you all ever hear the wooomp  when you first turn on a tube amp???

hummm

ist