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Author Topic: Single Wire Tests  (Read 75170 times)

Offline duff

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Single Wire Tests
« on: October 31, 2007, 08:42:00 AM »
Erfinder once said: "Study comes first and then construction! How can you build what you don't understand?".

I was going back through Steven Marks statements and the following got me thinking again. No one has a definitive answer for what the kick is.

SM: I told you that the simplest form of over unity is a piece of wire and a voltage source. Anyone can actually connect it and measure. See for yourself the kick. NO coil no xmrs, just a kick. That should tell you learned gentleman that there exists a form of energy convertible and useable which is directly related to a simple piece of wire and instantaneous electron flow.

The following is my effort to understand the kick using a straight piece of wire.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 11:11:29 PM by duff »

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Single Wire Tests
« on: October 31, 2007, 08:42:00 AM »

Offline duff

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2007, 08:52:20 AM »

Charge on a capacitor, in coulombs:
q=cv = 470uf ? 37.8V = 17.7660 coulombs

Energy Stored in a capacitor in joules:
E=1/2CV2 = 1/(2 ? 470uF ? 37.82) = 744.54K joules

470uF capacitor charges to 37.8V and discharges in 32us
Calculated current:
i = Q/T = C ? ΔV/Δt = (470uF ? 37.8V)/20us = 888.30 amps

Total Wire Length:  62 inches of #18 stranded wire.
Discharge Path Resistance (wire+resistor+relays): 0.13Ω

Dale LVR-2 Power Wirewound Resistor 2 watts 0.02ohms 1%

I do not have the math skills to calculate the energy under the kick in the last two scope shots. If someone could do that it might make an interesting comparison.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 11:10:25 PM by duff »

Offline duff

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2007, 08:55:08 AM »

I removed the 0.01Ω resistor and attached the scope probes to the terminal block on the relay board where the 62 inch wire connects to the relays.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 11:14:04 PM by duff »

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2007, 08:55:08 AM »
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Offline pese

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2007, 09:07:11 AM »
this must be an L-C Resonating Coil !
nothings else.
it is "kick" on vial the switching relais.
you can also use other parts to switch simply way.

with voltages in 1Kv are , you can use "spark-gags"
likeTesla.

Pese

Offline duff

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2007, 09:21:47 AM »
Pese,

I am only attempting to do the basic test here as SM states.

SM: I told you that the simplest form of over unity is a piece of wire and a voltage source. Anyone can actually connect it and measure. See for yourself the kick. NO coil no xmrs, just a kick.

-Duff
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 11:21:58 PM by duff »

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2007, 09:21:47 AM »
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Offline otto

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2007, 12:00:45 PM »
Hello all,

@duff

see at the ECD pdf, my first tests.

Otto

Offline z_p_e

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2007, 01:45:53 PM »
Duff,

I commend you for doing your homework. You have taken a first step, which most have not.

What were you expecting or hoping to see with this test and measurement? I am not trying to be facetious with this question.

May I suggest that you did not see anything unusual because you were measuring strictly voltage. Think about the current in the wire and the resulting (potential) mechanical aspects of this experiment.

One word of advice: DO NOT USE WIREWOUND RESISTORS WITH SWITCHING CIRCUITS IF YOU ARE EXPECTING PURELY RESISTIVE EFFECTS!

Wire wound resistors and fast rising/falling edges do not mix well. It's good that you eliminated the resistor in your last tests. It is interesting to note that there was very little (if any) inductive kickback using the copper wire, but the iron wire did in fact show some. I'm not suggesting iron wire was used in the TPU, just that it is an interesting difference considering the resistances were almost equal.

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2007, 01:45:53 PM »
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Offline duff

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2007, 02:24:07 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 05:17:52 PM by duff »

Offline duff

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2007, 02:55:58 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 05:18:31 PM by duff »

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2007, 02:55:58 PM »
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Offline RobotHead

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2007, 09:09:17 AM »
Hello all,

@duff

see at the ECD pdf, my first tests.

Otto
SM : "NO coil no xmrs, just a kick."  I believe I see a coil in your first test so it does not qualify.

Again, people fail to actually listen to what SM said and make up their own rules as if they know better.  It took them about a year to try and use tubes and it'll probably take them another year to test SM's most basic claim.  They're going backwards and wasting time.  If you people believe that SM is communicating with you, why not listen to EXACTLY what he's saying?  Arrogance?  Laziness?  Both?

I commend you Otto for what you're doing but there is a general lack of rigor I'm seeing on this board and I suspect that it's what stopping any of you from succeeding in reproducing SM's work (if it's real?).

Duff, keep up your rigor and doing the basics!  You'll get further sooner than those working on this for almost a year if you ask the basic questions and fully answer them.

I just think it's funny how practically ALL of the people I see here are building a "TPU" but have ALL failed to prove SM's most basic statement from what I've seen.  That one can get OU from a single wire.  I tell you what, none of them will get anywhere until they've done this most basic of proof.  SM couldn't do it if he didn't and they can't either.

It's like they're trying to build a computer but know nothing about a transistor or logic gates.  Good luck.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 09:56:50 AM by RobotHead »

Offline RobotHead

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2007, 09:53:14 AM »
Duff "I do not have the math skills to calculate the energy under the kick in the last two scope shots. If someone could do that it might make an interesting comparison."

-----

I would like to make a suggestion to you and to all wannabe SM types.  Learn to measure energy.  Focus on developing tools, buying tools or whatever to accurately measure energy in your circuits.  Else you can prove nothing.  All I see are sloppy attempts to measure energy and it will lead you astray.

Duff, the energy as SM said is very small.  Perhaps TOO small for you to measure with your equipment or setup.  So I'll ask you, how do you measure things that are very small??

Well, how do you measure the weight of a grain of sand if all you have is a pound scale?  Well, you take a bunch of sand and you weigh a few pounds as exactly as you can and then you divide that by the number of sand grains. 

Does that give you any ideas?  Instead of trying to measure the supposed extra energy in one "sand grain", get more "sand grains".

SM said there is OU in a wire and a Voltage source.  If it's true (which we don't know since no one here has proven it as SM claimed), then we can assume from what he's told us, that it occurs when the current starts and/or stops (from the Tesla story).  So if you make a lot of starts and stops, you will get more OU in that wire for your set Voltage source, maybe enough to measure if you have the proper methodology.

I suggest you increase the resistance on your R (to increase the measurement time) and start/stop the voltage from your capacitor as many times as you can until the capacitor totally discharges.  Then try and measure if there is any increase in ENERGY versus the energy from a straight Capacitor discharge.

Measure:

1) Energy from a total discharge with no on/off cycles.  This is the energy in the cap

2) Energy from a total discharge with many on/off cycles.  This is the energy of the cap + any "extra" OU from each on/off cycle

Then compare these values.  Is SM telling the truth?  Is your setup correct?  Is there a better way to measure the values?  Is there a better experimental setup to use?

I also suggest you stick with the capacitor and make sure you have exactly the same Voltage each time you charge up your Cap.  This is good since the energy stored in a capacitor is fixed for a fixed voltage.  Unlike using a power supply, you don't know exactly what energy you're getting when you're using non DC power source.  Measuring non DC power is a lot more challenging than just using P=IV.

My other suggestion is to focus on making sure you have an accurate way to MEASURE the energy.  Don't calculate, measure.

I have not seen one setup that is using a proper power measurement technique!  For the sake of simplicity, how about just using a light bulb, a photo cell and simple circuit to add up the voltage over time?  It's not that hard but people just don't know what rigor means.  So sloppy!  How can you know anything when you can't even see what you're doing?  It's like building a house of cards in the dark.  TURN THE LIGHTS ON!

Rigor Duff, rigor.

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2007, 09:53:14 AM »
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Offline RobotHead

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2007, 10:08:23 AM »
I personally DO NOT believe SM.  No one else should either.

Until you can prove his most basic claim, that OU can be obtained from a SIMPLE wire and a Voltage source, it's all hearsay and rumors or at worse a BOLD face lie.  Video's can be faked.  People can be paid off to act or lie.  So called messages from SM could all be fake!  How do any of you know it's real?  Maybe it's all fake.  You weren't there.  You don't know the people that supposedly are in touch with SM.  I mean if it's really SM, why can't he just post here himself?  Why go through someone else?   That's fishy.

I tell you how, prove that OU can be had from a single wire and you will know the truth.

Or you could waste your life following a lie or if it is real, you're like those monkeys in a room trying to write a novel, you'll only get there by pure luck.  If you're that lucky, you'd be better off buying a lotto ticket.

Duff, people like you are the best hope of finding out the truth about SM or OU in general.  Keep it up.

Until I see some real data, this is all just a pipe dream.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2007, 10:32:43 AM »
Hi Duff,
many thanks for doing these great tests.

What is strange,
that  in iron wire pulse , the right part of
duff_20071030-5.jpg
there is this strange negative going pulse after 200 uSecs, just when the
voltage has reached zero volts.
Why is the voltage jumping there again ?
Makes no sense to me...

Is it just an artifact of the mechanical switch maybe or
what could it be ?

Also pretty interesting, that in the pure copper wire
you also have a spike there going up again after about 20 mikroseconds !?

Could this also be from the mechanical switch just conducting better at this timepoint
or is this the kick SM has meant ?

Please analyse these scopeshots more and let us know,
if they are dependable on the used mechanical switch.
I think, ifwe can find out the nature of these spike jumps
then we can come to a closer understanding of it all...

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline duff

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2007, 12:45:27 PM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 05:19:04 PM by duff »

Offline innovation_station

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Re: Single Wire Tests
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2007, 01:23:17 PM »
did you all ever hear the wooomp  when you first turn on a tube amp???

hummm

ist

 

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