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Author Topic: Rodin Theory & Coils  (Read 151927 times)

Offline acerzw

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2007, 02:03:20 PM »
(Index entry - Basic Rodin Pattern Theory - PDF, Updated 30 Oct 2007 00:31)

Roding Theory PDF Status: Early days, not worth downloading yet...

The Rough Plan Is:

I will start where Rodin did with basic numerology... since his patterns all consist of a few key power numbers... I will begin with a basic analysis of them... in the hope that they will reveal key properties... I will then move onto number groups composed of them in the hope that the combinations of key numbers may give some clues as to their possible uses... I notice that there may be other possible toroids patterns that can be made from his set of symmetric number sequences... these may have important implications when applied to understanding and applying his theory... though some of this may have been covered in Russ Blake's paper... more work to do on that...

The Theory PDF is attached to this post. I will add others useful contributions on the theory to the PDF and credit them...

Acerzw... organised research will show us the path...

(apologies GK for nicking your sign-off style, is not emulation the sincerest form of flattery/ripping stuff off  :-[)
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 01:42:09 AM by acerzw »

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2007, 02:03:20 PM »

Offline otto

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2007, 02:14:11 PM »
Hello all,

@Acerzw

my Rodin coil is almost flat and has dimensions to meet the 6" TPU. Yes, its my "invention" but a good one.
As I had in the time when I wound my coil only the Naudins picture I did it in this way.
As Im now a little bit cleverer I would make my Rodin coil with a hollow tube as a core. This tube should be made of teflon or silicone....then the windings with copper wires. This is maybe better than I did it but Im not sure. Im not sure because I cant imagine that there could be a bigger magnetic field than I already have it.

Otto

Offline acerzw

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2007, 09:45:35 PM »
@otto

I think the size of the field is not very important, because of the very specific winding method, it is the shape of the field and the interaction of the cross overs of the windings that is important.. you see all the documents state the no one has built a perfect Rodin coil yet, because only a near perfect one will demonstrate the more unusual effects... also there is work to do on the theory we need to work out how to tap the energy out of the coil on we have a good coil... We must wind it like JNaudin at the very least and better if we can get it...

Acerzw
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 01:55:18 AM by acerzw »

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2007, 09:45:35 PM »
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Offline innovation_station

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2007, 12:27:01 AM »
well we need pictures and links of rodin coils already wound  well hey i have a very larg spool of 22 ga copper solid  ready to jump right into a new coil but we need specks and the most basic layout of his coil and yes sure  i will whip 1 up dubble time why the hell not as i have almost 50 tpu now why not a rodin stack too lol!!!!


ist


come on guys lets get to work  i will build and play and post but we must have a starting point

lets first try and get marko here to assist and advise also i aint playing any more crazy games 1 is enough for a wile  ;D

and i didnt even finish that one yet  but what the hell i will do both  ;D some one round up the specks i will build it
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 12:52:57 AM by innovation_station »

Offline acerzw

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2007, 12:50:33 AM »
@ls

See the JNaudin links in the index post on page 1... for an idea of what a basic coil might look like... the exact configuration is something we need to work and experiment on... I will attempt to formulate a full spec from Russ Blake's paper, at the end of Rodin's main page... but it will take some time... will see what I can do...

Acerzw
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 02:04:45 AM by acerzw »

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2007, 12:50:33 AM »
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Offline acerzw

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2007, 02:37:50 AM »
@all

Marko Rodin has been in contact with abovetopsecret.com, it appears they requested information from him, he suggested a live camera link, and then posted his youtube videos's in response...

They are a somewhat sceptical bunch on that site, and one suspects slightly paranoid... see for yourself... http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread310026/pg

I am hopeful our approach might be taken seriously... since he is prepared to contact sites of a more skeptical nature...

Acerzw

Offline acerzw

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2007, 08:52:27 AM »
@all

A large part of the key is obviously the numbers 3 & 6 which Rodin describes the as the numbers between which everything oscillates, they as the his documentation indicates represent the two coil windings, 9 then represents the toroid centre vortex, which is the power takeoff point, where the non-ferrite rod is placed...

I suggest that we stick with a number of windings that is a multiple of 9, since it is the toroid centre vortex that we are trying to excite, it is unclear if this will make any difference to the field, but it would seem logical to make all the numeric design parameters multiples of these. I have updated the suggested coil parameters on the index post with this info.

The JNaudin circuit or something like it should probably, be used... would anyone care to look at his circuit (link in the first post index) and comment, improve on it, etc...

Acerzw

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2007, 08:52:27 AM »
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Offline Rosphere

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2007, 05:25:58 PM »
@acerzw,

Thank you for starting this topic.

I have seen several of the videos so far.  Sunshine?

I have played around with the "=MOD('cell_address', 9)" function in a spreadsheet.  (It needs to be nested in an IF statement to test for a zero remainder and substitute a "9" if true.)

I have not yet seen enough of the content to discern how these whole number games fit in with the whole coil design analogy.

Nor am I sure what he means by, ?bifilar.?  I know what bifilar means, but how is it applied in this coil configuration; does he wrap two wires at the same time filling up 2/3 of the surface area, or does he wrap one wire filling up 1/3 of the surface area and then wrap the second wire to fill the adjacent 1/3?

I may answer my own question upon further exploration.  I just wanted to thank you for piquing my interest with this topic.

Rosphere ? lurking is less expensive

Offline c0mster

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2007, 06:00:49 PM »
Looked to me like this (my interpretation) , The diagram shows a red and blue segment lets say the red is one turn and the blue 1 turn. If you think of his chart as being shown as magnified then in this case the coil appears to be bifilar. The red and blue are side by side, but if you were to build the coil to scale then you would have to slice up the blue and red into continues wraps. Thus the width and empty space are to scale. I watched all the vids and took some notes, I remember he does show his coil he wrapped, sorry can?t remember what chapter, but if you find it have a close look at it.   

C

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2007, 06:00:49 PM »
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Offline Rosphere

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2007, 03:36:26 AM »
@c0mster,

One of the first few video sequences says, "...the red and the blue are two windings...," (referring to the diagram in the video.)

I also got a better look at the coil in the video.  The two wires do not seem to have been wound together; side-by-side at the same time.

Rather, it appears that one wire was wound along side itself until a third of the surface area was taken.  Then, the second wire was wound in a like fashion.

I am pondering the construction of two identical prototype coils, set apart several feet and facing each other; perhaps in a vertical orientation or towards a particular pole--might need to try them all.  Then, pulse one coil with a low voltage sine wave at slowly increasing frequencies until a bunny pops out of the other coil.  ;)




Offline c0mster

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2007, 04:59:02 AM »
@Rosphere
Thanks for posting the pic. Those blue things remind me of those kids toys you can get that you stack the different plastic rings. I am trying to understand just how this coil is wrapped so I can begin one as well. I am knee deep in another project currently but may move on to this soon.

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2007, 04:59:02 AM »
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Offline acerzw

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2007, 08:52:21 PM »
@robsphere & c0mster

great to see your enthusiasm... rodin's own site is a great source for the information you want, I recommend re-examining its contents now and then... but Russ Blake mentions the coil configuration:

The Rodin Coil

The Rodin Coil is a toroidal?or doughnut-shaped?form wound by wires in a pattern consistent with the number patterns discovered by Mr. Rodin. Toroidal shapes wound with wires are commonly used for inductors in electrical circuits, often for use in transformers. However the pattern of winding in a Rodin Coil is radically different from conventional toroidal coils. Experimenters have produced some samples of the Rodin Coil to measure the effects of this new approach to winding wires around a torus.

To understand these effects it is necessary to review just a little electrical theory. When a current is passing through a wire it creates a magnetic field around the wire. When a wire is coiled like a cylindrical spring, as though wrapped around a pencil, the magnetic fields from the turns of the coil reinforce each other to increase the strength of the magnetic field. When the coil is bent into a circle, so that the ends meet, the majority of the magnetic force is concentrated inside the coil. This is considered a benefit in electrical circuit design, since stray magnetic fields can upset the operation of other parts of the circuit.

In a conventional coil the windings lay one after another just like the windings of a cylindrical spring. In a Rodin Coil, the windings lie on the surface of the torus, but do not lie consecutively adjacent to each other. Instead they reach along the surface, through the central, doughnut hole area, and 30 degrees short of directly across the torus. This forms, in addition to the wires on the outer surface, a crisscrossing circle of wires in the center of the torus. (The central figure formed by the wires in the doughnut hole is really a polygon of 24 sides for each completed wrap of the coil: so many sides it is considered a circle.)

Due to the central circle of wires in a Rodin Torus, it naturally creates a greatly increased magnetic field in the center of the torus, when compared to a conventional coil wound with the same amount of wire. In addition the field generated is much more coherent, in the sense of being much more sensitive to a particular frequency of applied current. These properties are the basis for useful applications of the Rodin Coil, as well as for any limitations in its use.

All this having been said, it is worth noting that no one has as yet created a coil precisely conforming to Mr. Rodin's exacting recommendations, all of which derive from the numerical patterns he has discovered in the decimal number system. The effects of a really well constructed Rodin Coil remain untested.

The increase in magnetic field over a conventional coil that is found with a Rodin Coil has been observed to be limited if the hollow torus is replaced by the ferrite core used in conventional electric motors. The reason is that the ferrite core reaches magnetic saturation, beyond which no additional magnetic field can be produced. Assuming this difficulty can be overcome by judicious choice of core materials, or that hollow cores can produce enough current, a motor based on the Rodin Coil could be markedly more efficient at generating electrical energy than a conventionally constructed electric motor. (The possibility of a hollow core electric motor is exciting due to the light weight of such a design.

Evolutionary Applications

<snip>

Before enumerating these practical possibilities, we should mention that they all require using the Rodin Coil in a more or less conventional fashion. We do not intend here to describe in complete detail how a Rodin Coil is wrapped, as this is covered to some extent in supporting documentation. (Detailed engineering work on Rodin Coil design specification still needs attention.) Here we only wish to point out that in a "real" Rodin Coil, there are two wires used to form the wrap; these are not connected to each other, but rather each wire is connected to itself to complete a loop at the end of the wrap. Thus there is no way to extract current directly from these wires or to energize them directly with an external current. In this section on Evolutionary Applications we divert from the strict Rodin Coil design, and energize the coils in a more conventional fashion, by connecting the ends of the two loops to one or two current sources or sinks, so we can utilize and measure the coil's properties along the lines of conventional electrical engineering. In the next section, on Revolutionary Applications, we revert to the true coil design as envisioned by Mr. Rodin.

Hope this helps... also look at links in the index post in relation to JNaudin's replication.

In relation to the whole number game, it is more to do with the patterns than the numbers... I will post further on this topic.... it is very interesting and requires a new understanding of maths as Rodins maths is not the same as normal maths... it is based on a different philosophy...

Acerzw
« Last Edit: November 01, 2007, 10:59:08 PM by acerzw »

Offline acerzw

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #27 on: November 01, 2007, 10:54:43 PM »
In relation to Rodin's maths philosophy I am reposting here a slightly edited version of a post I made on the 'TPU General Discussion' thread:

Rodin's maths is a superset of normal base 10 maths that can be applied to the universe, he has shown how he derived his ideas... so we have ideas on how to build on his theory... if you look you will understand the implications... I do not have to look too hard because I just 'know', I am lucky in that, it is not blind faith I am expressing, I have always had good intuition in matters of logic... I am not trying to boast... just state what appears to me to be 'true'... tis in the bones... but I can give it meaning in a less mystical way...

If you apply the logic of Kurt Godel, his theories show that any paradox in a mathematical or well formed symbolic language can be resolved by expressing the paradox, in a superset of that language... or at least when the definition or use of it symbols are changed to make the context bigger... it is a beautiful thing to witness... read Rodin's page and see how he derived his number system... simple... natural... and easy... so you were taught that maths has to be hard, that you need to sit in a room for years looking at dusty books and grow a beard to be intelligent and achieve anything with it... nice image if you are a professor or the next Einstein... but why should it be so... does not your 'gut' tell you that maths should not be hard, that it should be easy... like singing...

I think we all 'feel' that we should be good at maths, in our hearts, right? Have you ever asked yourself why conventional maths and anything expressed or based on it such as physics and EM theories are littered with infinities, paradoxes and singularities...

This is the point at which conventional maths always fails... Why is there no theory of everything that unifies Einsteins Relativity Theories with Quantum Mechanics... why do we have to resort to the convolution of adding multiple dimensions to everything... why does it all appear so complicated...

The answer is easy:

<<< Commence Zen Maths Rant >>>

We forget that numbers are just symbols... conventional science makes the numbers things... it confuses what the number symbolises with the 'number'...

Numbers are not things, they are placeholders for elements that form patterns, yet we try to subdivide these placeholders, we lose sight of the 'pattern' the bigger picture... then we are lost, lost, lost...

Once you realise that a number is not a thing, it is part of a pattern and that the pattern is important and not the thing, then you really see... it is like the old Zen saying... 'A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon'... so the placeholder, the number is not the pattern that is reveals...

So Rodin's maths appears different, mystical even, because it is about pattern, the pattern of existence that underlies creation... the pattern we do not see because we are to busy looking at the finger, not seeing what it is pointing too...

Rodin's Maths is the moon (not the finger, normal maths is the finger, the distraction necessary to reveal the moon's presence), an expression of the pattern of creation, and therefore the key to free energy or anything else you care to apply it to...

<<< End of Zen Maths Rant >>>

Rodin's maths solves all these conventional problems, it is the very breath of god...

So throw away your conventional thinking, stop thinking of numbers as things... see that is the pattern, the tapestry that the numbers show, like the windings on a coil, the pattern they form is important, the shape of the field they make when powered, but the wire is not the field...

Acerzw

Offline c0mster

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2007, 06:40:15 AM »
Soon as I finish up this project I'll be on the Robin Coil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3nPa7Y7EBs

C

Offline Rosphere

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Re: Rodin Theory & Coils
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2007, 06:11:12 PM »
@acerzw, can you show one example of a maths complexity that simplifies using Rodin maths?

I purchased one ten-inch decorative foam ring from a craft store yesterday: 250mm Torus O.D., 38mm Tube Dia., $(tree-fiddy.)

Now I need to mark the OD with 36 evenly spaced points, stick a pin into the foam at every third point, and use these pins as guides to start wrapping my first wire.  Once I hit all twelve points with the first wrap I will remove the guide pins.

My big question now is, what size mag-wire should I use?

My previous TPU failures have left me with nearly a half pound each of 30, 28, 26, 24, & 22 AWG mag-wire.  If I use the thickest 22 AWG wire then I will need less wraps to cover the 2/3 area.  But if I use the thinnest 30 AWG wire then I will get more wraps per the same surface area.  The adult in me wants to use the 30 AWG wire for more length, stronger magnetic fields, and a lower (I assume) resonant frequency, but the kid in me wants to use the 22 AWG wire to complete wrapping that much sooner.  Recommendations?

 

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