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Author Topic: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.  (Read 22610 times)

Offline Creaform

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Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« on: October 24, 2007, 01:18:06 AM »
Hello, I was wonding what the mathematical formula to calculate the energy output of an antygravity machine.
So I can caulculate how much energy will be required to counteract the effects of a blackhole.
Basicly I need a simple conversion of, 1wat for 1 kilo for 1 minute. type of conversion.
Also what kind of efficientcy are they running at?

I am hoping on creating a new type of energysource.
A ship that can use anty gravity to wrap around a blackhole withotu beign sucked into it, so it can pass the event horizon, An because the matter in the core is pure energy, to use anty gravity to make it release energy to fuel a ship.

This would esentially be a cast of, throw a rock in, the sheer gravity converts it to energy by crushing the atoms, and then equalise it by letting an amount of energy equal to the rock escape.
Or i could just continueally strip energy off it and use it for acceleration untill the blackhole has diminished to a point where its gravity can no longer act as a way to contain the outward explosive force.

Any help with this I can work out the size of blackhole I could contain aswell as the efficitnetcy, Its not worth doing if the anty gravity devices use up more energy than can be safely pulled fomr the blackhole.

I wil lgladly explain it in more detail if asked to do so.

Creaform

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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 01:52:08 AM »
Hello, I was wonding what the mathematical formula to calculate the energy output of an antygravity machine.
So I can caulculate how much energy will be required to counteract the effects of a blackhole.

G'day Creaform and all,

No anti gravity device will ever counteract the effects of a black hole, even if it can be built. A black hole by definition "sucks" matter into itself by virtue of the enormous gravitic forces that are characteristic for this type of phenomenon. This creates a particle stream in the direction of the black hole of almost unbelievable velocity. Your imaginary spacecraft would still be bombarded by this particle stream. An anti gravity device on board would not negate that stream, nor impede it. The only way to avoid a collision would be to proceed in the direction of the black hole with the same velocity. You might as well let gravity do the job :-)

Hans von Lieven

Offline Creaform

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 02:29:28 AM »
I have a way of compensating for the bombardment of debree. but it goes off topic.
Simply I need to know how much enegy would need to be pulled off the blackhole a little to little would in a split second cause your antygravity field pulling energy off it to colapse, the antygravity fields holding the ship in place aorund it failing due to loss of power and the ship getting sucked inside instantly.
Or to much and it causes a feedback, of infinate energy, and causes problem one, or it doesnt shut off causing the blackhole to lose its containment field of gravity, the minimum explosive size would be equivilent to our sun finding something of equal size to it made of antymatter.
the resulting explosion would make a supernova look like a firecracker.  :-\ oops.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2007, 02:29:28 AM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2007, 03:36:04 AM »
G'day Creaform,

Why don't you build your anti gravity ship, fly to the stars and leave venturing into the proximity of black holes for a time when you understand the capabilities of your craft better.

Considering even travelling at light speed, it would take more than your life time to reach a black hole. So it is rather academic, isn't it?

Hans von Lieven

Offline Nastrand2000

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2007, 04:17:48 AM »
I believe that you may find a better understanding of space/time by reading Michio Kaku's books about string theory. Wormholes and blackholes are extensively covered. Also, he is one of the few theoretical physicists that can write about such subjects  in an entertaining and grasping way. I suggest "Parallel Worlds" and "HyperSpace".
Jason

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2007, 04:17:48 AM »
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Offline Creaform

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2007, 11:11:48 AM »
Wormholes rely on the idea of time being an editable dimension but time is not a dimension, time is a name given to the rate at which atoms react with eachother, hence there bieng only 3 dimensions, and wormhoels and paralel universes disapear in a puff of logic.

Now all i came here for is a formulae on antygravity.

and as for reaching the starts. Faster than lgiht travel is not easy without a massive power source. A powersource like say.... somrtihng with the destructive capabilies to destroy a galaxy?
All I need is a figure for my uni paper.

Offline linda933

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 03:51:37 PM »
Spaghettification Effects:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettification

I believe you will find the information you need right here.   Marinara, Clam or Alfredo sauce with that, sir?

Linda


Also...accurate verifiable efficiency numbers on anti-gravity machines are very difficult to find.  It seems most of the manufacturers are reluctant to discuss this issue, which tends to make me suspect it is in the very low numbers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2007, 03:51:37 PM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2007, 05:00:55 PM »
@Creaform

Something tells me in order to do what you wish you'll have to employ the use of a naked singularity. When you build the thing please do us all a big favor.

Don't flip the switch until you are not only off-world but out-of-galaxy.

Good Luck!


Offline Creaform

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2007, 05:19:15 PM »
Spaghtification will not result because you will not be experiencing syntrifical force nor the bieng sucked into it force.
So the seporate sides of oyur body would not be feeliugn different forces

Nacked singularity?
Nope just an average everyday blackhole.

Power usage is not a problem. Theres allot of energyin a black hole over 2 solarmasses to be precise.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2007, 05:19:15 PM »
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Offline armagdn03

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2007, 06:11:17 PM »
Hmmm, Id stop where you are buddy. I?m not trying to shut down your ideas or anything, but I realized a lot when I started to look at the fundamentals of what we call physics. This is what led me to the OU community.

Only 3 dimensions? Time does not count? I could definitely argue differently!

In fact, one could argue that time is the only dimension! In fact, it has been proven that a finite measurement like length is not finite at all. In fact the length of an object according to relativity is directly tied to the speed with which it hurdles through the other 3 dimensions. As you speed through the physical dimensions, you slow down in the time domain. The connection is there.

Now to really throw you through a loop think about this. Relativity teaches the student that we cannot know for sure if any one object is ?moving? at all. In fact movement itself is relative the viewpoint of the observer. So if you watch an Olympian throw a javelin, you may notice that it gets shorter due to its increased speed. But maybe the javelin is not moving. Perhaps the entire universe just moved around the javelin.

Maybe just by watching the man throw the long rod, you have yourself become shorter. This is why I cannot watch NASCAR, all those fast moving cars makes me relatively ill. I cant stand turning on the tv and start to instantly move 200+ miles an hour.

In fact since the meter is a fractional measurement of the distance between the north pole and the equator (1⁄10 000 000 the distance) and since the earth is hurdling through space at a constantly variable speed (which can be determined by the fact that our earth does not limit itself to a perfect orbit year after year,) one could argue that there is no such thing as an si unit of distance. Where are your three dimensions now?

Gone in a puff of logic.

Offline Creaform

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2007, 07:23:41 PM »
Logic eh?

If time is a dimension like length width and depth.
Then every pice of energy would have a set length on that dimension, but since matter cannot be created or destroyed this cannot be a case.
Secondly, we cannot interact with time as a dimension.
All matter moves at a constant speed, but all matter is effected by time,
time = X
X is varyable
the rock moves 3 meters in X, but if X changes due to the proximity of a large gravitational force, the rock does not move as far but its speed remains constant.

time is much more like a varyable that effects all matter, than a dimension that everything moves thorugh.

Thus if time is not a dimension, than there can be no fifth 6th 7th 8th 9th or 10th.
Also this means we cannot move thorugh the 5th diemnsion to create a wormhole.

Paralel universes dont exist due to 8 9 and 10 not existing.

I do understand what oyu are saying about there bieng no central point to relate everything to.
Were like a perpetually moving pooltable, with balls bouncing off eachother, accept theres no pooltable jsut a seethin mass of balls moving. you get used to the thaught and learn to ignore it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2007, 07:23:41 PM »
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Offline Creaform

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 07:35:57 PM »
Before you say im wrong consider this, Yo usay time is a dimension, you offer no evidence to support your claim. "In fact, one could argue that time is the only dimension" That was it. I see no logic.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2007, 07:49:42 PM »
you hit it on the nose!

"Then every piece of energy would have a set length on that dimension"
find any theoretical theorist worth his salt, and he will tell you that this can be done. Except not a set length, since time is variable as well. In fact I am traveling through time at a different speed than you, simply because I am in a different geographic location on the surface of a rotating sphere, so the measure of the circumference where we sit is probably different.

you also say after this that matter cannot be created or destroyed. Where do you get your info from???

what do you think the ramifications of E=MC^2 are? In fact in some stepping stone theories such as string theory, matter is nothing more than small 2 dimensional loops held at Plank tension. The frequency at which they vibrate determines their physical attributes. This idea means that energy level (frequency) is all that determines the properties of the particle, be it an energy particle or a particle with mass. This interchangeability between energy and mass is something that is on the fringe of science for many, but has evidence to back it up, all you have to do is look.  (note the string theory is a stepping stone theory only, and has many incorrect assumption and rules that need to exist for it to work.)

You could look at the universe as one dimensional.
Everything is speeding through this one dimension at the speed of light.  this dimension is time. If we move a bit, we have decreased in speed through time, and increased in speed through dimension x. Every movement is a borrowing of energy from the time dimension.  Because of this you cannot push mass past the speed of light, because it would cease to be mass, it would become pure energy, with zero passage through time.

you may be correct about no 8,9 and ten dimensions etc. but dimensions are all human constructs we use to evaluate our world, you cannot say time is not one of them.

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 08:16:31 PM »
Here is food for thought, take your basic si measurements.


Mass
Temperature
Distance
Time


Mass is a property of matter. There are two important physical properties which are referred to as a mass. The first is called gravitational mass or gravitational charge. That property shows the strength of gravitational interaction between two objects which have gravitational masses. If gravitational mass is zero, there will be no gravitational interaction. Currently there are no known objects with negative mass, although it is not proven that mass must be positive or zero. The second property is called inertial mass. That property shows how well the object changes its velocity if it interacts with another object. The easier (e.g. faster) the object changes its velocity the smaller the mass is.     

Right off the bat we have two definitions of mass require both time and distance to be measured!
So lets look at distance,

Distance is a numerical description of how far apart objects are at any given moment in time. In physics or everyday discussion, distance may refer to a physical length, a period of time, or an estimation based on other criteria

Here again time is mentioned in the very definition of a fundamental unit. I have already discussed why a unit of distance is not absolute, as you cannot prove how fast it is moving.

Temperature falls into the same problem. Temp, or the excitation of molecular structure requires the time domain for meaning. Without it it cannot exist.  How about a deffinition of temp???

?On the microscopic scale, temperature is defined as simply the average energy of microscopic motions of a single particle in the system per degree of freedom?

Now we have defined temperature with the SI unit of distance (the derivative of motion) upon which mass is also based, where mass in turn has a definition based off of the time dimension.

It all leads back to time. Since it is measurable, variable, controllable, how is it not a dimension?

Offline Creaform

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Re: Anty gravity, Energy Output versus energy Input.
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 09:06:18 PM »
Ok 1 major pice of evidence that shows time as a varyable and not a dimension.

Length width and depth can be effected by % and Static effects.
AKA, it can be effected by things that take the ojects original value into account and it can be effected by things that dont.
I can explain this further if you require i do so.

time can only be effected by % effects. and cannot go into a negative.
time can only be slowed down by the effect of gravity.

the properties of time are verry different to length witdth and depth.

Besides, im talking aobut space flight not using dimension with different laws of physics to easily accelerate to massive multiples of C, nor am I tlakign aobut wormholes.

Im talking about gettign a giant ball of pure energy and throwing it out the ass end in the form of well..... boom!
The larger the blackhole the more energy it wil lrequire to contain it. And it goes into a %, the larget the blackhole the more power so the more needs to be pulled off it. MEaning any size blackhole will last the same amount of time, only the larger it is the faster your acceleration.

Im oging out for a smoke then im going to sleep.

 

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