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Author Topic: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel  (Read 23069 times)

Offline AB Hammer

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Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« on: October 21, 2007, 01:41:11 AM »
Greetings all

As promised the drawing of what I believe is Bessler's 12ft wheel. Take a look and remember all what was said, moving both ways, scraiching noises, heavy hitting, cylindrical weights and covered 1 end, but the sound of a spring when replaced and it fits plate 137, which I believe was Bessler's best drawn clue.

1 down I believe, and 3 other types to go. For I believe that all 4 wheels where different designs.

Yes! this wheel will work. (No doughts) at about 20 rounds a minute. I am also building a 1/3 scale model that I will post by Christmas.

I like calling the effect a disk shooter. and since it is under a spring it also catches the disk as well. I did a test of the shooter and it shot a disk across the room.

I hope you like it.
Alan

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Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« on: October 21, 2007, 01:41:11 AM »

Offline pese

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2007, 05:54:20 PM »
possible the number 7  (clockwise)
the weight must sit on the other side ?

but the number 1 (is right , but hey bive additional weight to
the movement of the wheel (in clockwise sens)
G:Pese

Offline Joh70

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2007, 07:55:59 PM »
don't like the title for a wheel even not build.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2007, 07:55:59 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2007, 09:59:29 PM »
pese

 The number 7 is building up energy to launch but won't have it till the top weight is in position to help the flip.

Joh70

 Sorry but I tend to name things to fit there best description's, and Bessler need to get his long over due proper credit. I have other machines that will work a lot better with more power, that I will keep for my patents.

Offline Prophmaji

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 02:30:55 AM »
took me a second, there. The weights are much heavier than the disks, thus they are shot across. The weights are symetrically located, thus rotation is not an issue, concerning balance.

Simple.

I like it.

Build, and test and post as a video...as soon as possible. Neat.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 02:30:55 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2007, 05:52:09 AM »
Allan:

Nice job!  Build it and keep us posted.  Best of luck to you.

Bill

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 08:55:33 AM »
i kind of see how it works...any more drawings?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2007, 08:55:33 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2007, 06:28:58 PM »
I posted this on Bessler's wheel forum.

I just had a thought on the 11.15 ft wheel at Meiseburg. looking at the drawings pendulum and asking. Do you think the pendulum is an activator, a regulator, may be both, or even just something to show movement to count the speed?

Offline armagdn03

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2007, 06:40:27 PM »
I love your enthusiasm and hard work. Unfortunately this is not my area, and I am having a hard time visualizing operation.

Would you be so kind as to give us a walkthrough?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2007, 06:40:27 PM »
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Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2007, 09:59:55 PM »
G'day Alan and all,

Regards the wheel at Merseburg, and incidentally the wheel at Weissenstein which shows a similar arrangement I would like to say the following.

(http://www.besslerwheel.com/images/Merseburg_wheel2.jpg)

If you have a look at the drawing you will notice that on the left hand side it shows the same wheel shown from the side. There are actually two pendula involved, one in front of the wheel, one behind the hammer mill the wheel is driving. Both are driven by the main shaft without any other connection to the machine shown.

The same arrangement is here at the Weissenstein wheel.

(http://www.keelytech.com/overunity/weissenstein.jpg)

I have used the Weissenstein illustration for my analysis as it is a better depiction of the principle and a clearer scan of Bessler's original drawing (courtesy University of Goettingen). Only the colour and my comment regarding the centre of gravity have been added, otherwise the picture is original.

A closer look at the pendulum reveals that in reality it is not a pendulum at all. The two counter weights at the top shift the centre of gravity of the device very close to the fulcrum. This arrangement virtually cancels any pendulum effect. So what is it and why is it there?

It is my assessment that it is a very sensitive indicator of the balance of the entire device at any given point.

Like this:

(http://www.keelytech.com/overunity/balance.jpg)

Can you see the parallels?

So what was Bessler doing there? The answer is as simple as it is obvious.

Bessler used the device to set and adjust his weights inside the wheel during construction! After the wheel was built there was no further need for it and in fact in some of Bessler's designs he dispensed with it altogether though it is my guess he would have still used it during construction. A further indication that my analysis is probably correct is that in the earlier Merseburg wheel the device is much cruder in construction, indicating that Bessler was very much aware that the more precise the device the more accurate his measurements became. Hence the much greater care spent in its construction in the Weissenstein wheel.

It utterly amazes me that in almost 300 years no-one I know of has ever commented on this and that even today people that study Bessler still call it a pendulum when it is very clear that it is not.

Hans von Lieven

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2007, 11:45:45 PM »
Thanks Hans

 That was great information, I was looking at it for my 1/3 scale to do and caused me a few more questions for the display.

armagdn03

 Well it is like this the disk are lodged into the corners, when it gets around to where the weights drop it pinches the disk and shoot it up to the other end where it will lodg.

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2007, 11:45:45 PM »
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Offline fletcher

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 01:48:18 AM »
Nice theory Hans .. & you could well be correct with your interpretation. Bessler says that they were to regulate the wheel - from that I take it to mean that like a flywheel, when under load, they helped 'smooth out' the load & energy demands so that the wheels continued to rotate at a fairly constant rpm [clip] i.e. did not speed up & slow down or had irregular rotational speed - if that were the case then they would have some pendulum effect.

I think what is also interesting are the T bar weights - it looks like they could be moved in & out as required, in some of his woodcuts - this would mean that the Center of Gyration of the pendulums would change depending on their radius from the pivot - wide set & the inertia from the T bar weights would slow the pendulum - closer in & the pendulum would not have as much inertial resistance to twisting the path of the T bar weights & so speed up - IMO, he changed the rotational inertia characteristics when the load was near maximum so that possibly the wheel could develop more torque at perhaps slower speeds.

P.S. thanks Stephan for the spell check  :)

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2007, 01:59:44 AM »
G'day Fletcher,

Have a close look at the so-called pendulum. Even without the counterweights that negate any pendulum effect, the pendulum, which it would be now, is far too small to have any appreciable effect on a massive wheel this size. It could not regulate anything.

Take the trouble and calculate the forces in play and you will find that my analysis is correct.

Hans von Lieven

Offline fletcher

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2007, 02:36:18 AM »
hmm .. trouble is we don't have any idea of the mass of the weights depicted in the woodcuts, it would only be a guess - but if Bessler said they were to regulate the wheel then I have no real reason not to believe him - if that were so, then he can regulate the swing period by altering the positions of the T bar weights [they don't change the CoG as they rotate equidistant around its pivot IINM], therefore there must be a reason to slow down or speed up the pendulum which in turn, being attached by crank to the wheel axle, had influence on the inner force/torque generating parts of his wheels.

I agree, its not a very good way to build a pendulum [better ways to get a lower CoG] - it might be harder to explain why he needed two on each wheel as they would counter balance ? I would suggest that since they were purportedly 180 degrees out of phase that they both loaded the wheel at the same time & had little or no effect when vertical thru their swing arc - this would suggest that his wheels developed variable torque that needed to be smoothed, perhaps under high load ? Just my thoughts !

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2007, 03:20:21 AM »
G'day Fletcher,

Bessler is right, they are there to regulate the wheel, during construction and adjustments. Today we would say to calibrate the wheel.

I have Bessler's book here, in the original German and Latin bilingual version. I can read both languages. I can find no contradiction in what I am saying and in what Bessler said. Bear in mind Bessler was apart from being a very good engineer, even by today's standards, a character who enjoyed surrounding himself with an aura of mysticism.

He was also very protective of his creation (the Wheel).

Perhaps in his poetry he is far more explicit than in the main body of text. One wonders why he included this in an otherwise quite technical book.

Apart from this, the facts speak for themselves. This is a machine (the "pendulum part of it) and it is sufficiently detailled to apply reverse engineering to it. What I said about the device is not theory. You can build that part on its own without the wheel and study its behaviour and the forces involved.

Regardless of the materials and weights involved in its construction the effects are the same. By adding the weights on top he is creating a very finely balanced system far more suitable for measuring with minimum impact than to generate any meaningful force.

Believe me, it is there for the purpose of calibrating the internal weights and their distribution. It simply does not make sense in any other way.

Hans von Lieven.

 

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