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Author Topic: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel  (Read 23891 times)

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2008, 09:38:13 AM »
Longtong, I am afraid your ignorance is showing.

Bessler put his wheel on display in 1712!  At that time in Europe there was a feudal society based mainly on agriculture. The man in the street had very little, meat was on the table only on special occasions and most people went hungry every now and then because they could not afford bread.

Bessler asked for an enormous amount of money, even most princes could not afford his price. In today's money the sum he asked for would be several Billion!

The entire peasantry of Germany at the time would not have had that much money between them.

Put it in perspective before you judge people and Bessler.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2008, 09:38:13 AM »

Offline longtong3

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2008, 12:30:08 AM »
Longtong, I am afraid your ignorance is showing.

Bessler put his wheel on display in 1712!  At that time in Europe there was a feudal society based mainly on agriculture. The man in the street had very little, meat was on the table only on special occasions and most people went hungry every now and then because they could not afford bread.

Bessler asked for an enormous amount of money, even most princes could not afford his price. In today's money the sum he asked for would be several Billion!

The entire peasantry of Germany at the time would not have had that much money between them.

Put it in perspective before you judge people and Bessler.

Hans von Lieven

How much did Bessler ask for at that time? Several billion for today money, it still just a few dollars for each one of us.

Maybe "argriculture boy" (equal to "oil boy" today) did not want his wheel for some reasons.

Offline Koen1

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2008, 08:15:46 PM »
Well i'm with Hans on this one. It's not a simple matter of the peasants choosing not to buy the wheel.
you have to consider that
a) peasants hardly had anything of value, they often didn't even have enough food, let alone money,
b) it was a feudal society, meaning that you did what you were told by your Lord, or you'd lose your head
c) there was no industry based on other forms of power than manual, horse, or wind. Large machinery was not around.
d) there were no independent media through which the common people could learn of new developments such
as this wheel (in most countries)
e) any form of change in the status quo that might in any way or form disrupt the system in which the common folk
were ruled by the elite aristocracy was violently opposed by the latter
f) there was no concept of "one world" at the time. There were only many countries/kingdoms trying to cheat eachother. Feudalism ran deep.

And, while you're considering that, maybe you can also consider why it is that we, modern day people, with all the things we do have,
still have not joined forces to secure a safe and plentiful energy supply for centuries to come?
We can do it, you know.
It's called nuclear fusion, and it is possible.
But for some reason the nations of the world, nor the UN, nor the USA, nor the G8, nor the EU, none of those multinational alliances,
have found it worthwile investing the hundreds of billions of Euros to complete the R&D and construction of a true viable nuclear fusion plant.
Many experimental fusion reactors have already been built and used, and knowledge of fusion is now at the point where they have
successfully determined the specifications needed to build a fusion reactor that can produce sustained fusion and at the same time
output huge amounts of electrical energy. Fusion reactors can run on Deuterium and Tritium, basically heavy hydrogen, and we've got
enough hydrogen in the oceans to last us centuries, milennia even. It would, in effect, be nearly "free" energy, if we take into account that
the R&D and construction costs as well as the cost of refining the heavy water is relatively minute in comparison to the amounts of
energy it can yield.
But, for some reason, we don't.

So you can blame the poor peasants of the past for not investing in the Bessler wheel they didn't even know about,
or you can start to wonder why exactly the same thing is happening now... ;)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2008, 08:15:46 PM »
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Offline longtong3

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #33 on: February 20, 2008, 07:54:32 AM »
@Koen1

What you said is the problem with the people of the word or "human problem"

If the world is "lovely, honestly world", thing might work like this: group of people (company, corporation) buy Bessley's wheel (patient or invention). They pay in advance "chip in money of the world", then re-sale it to companies all around the world and get their money back, plus profit. Companies promote product (wheel, patient) then sale it to end user and get their money back plus interest.

If 10% world population use product, they pay 10 times more for the chip in. If 50% need, they pay twice the chip in. But many times it does not work that way.

Company might steal wheel (patient) from inventor (human problem)

Others companies around the world might steal idea & do not pay royalties to company which bought the patient, they want to put the end user chip in money in their own pocket (human problem)

With the human problem like that, who do you blame? Bessley and the inventor with good invention?

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2008, 08:19:19 AM »
Don't you see longtong, there was no "world" as you know it in 1712.

Close to 90% of the population in Europe was illiterate, there was no radio, television, newspaper etc that allowed people to see things and hear about things outside their immediate vicinity.

There was not even a widely understood language as we have in English today.

You are trying to superimpose contemporary conditions on a medieval way of life. This just cannot be done. Maybe Bessler would get a better hearing today, but I doubt it. Even if you had a wheel that turned by itself there would be few people listening to you if you quoted billions of dollars as your price.

Wake up, the world just doesn't work like this.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2008, 08:19:19 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2008, 02:07:08 PM »
Back in medieval times you would have to get the church as well as the royals on your side. But today you would have to get the Media on your side. Exposer today is allot easier than back then. As for the money, you have to deal with Corporate and learn how to take a down payment and royalties. But on an invention like this, your life would be very comfortable for the rest of your life and your heirs.

Offline longtong3

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2008, 12:29:12 AM »
Let's Bessley rested in his tomb with his wheel, and we keep on looking for a working wheel.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #36 on: February 21, 2008, 12:29:12 AM »
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Offline pequaide

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2008, 04:03:46 AM »
I build energy producing machines for $25.00. I used strobe light photographs, photo gates, and (frame by frame stop action) video tapes to evaluate the motion. All data that I collect proves energy has been made. But after years of asking people to simply repeat the experiments, everyone has refused to spend the $25.00. I think Bessler?s wheel is a small mystery compared to this.

Hans is correct Bessler asked too much. But is $25 too much, I think we are dealing with different issues today than in Bessler?s time. Today we are dealing with huge prejudice in support of The Law of Conservation of Energy.  In Bessler?s time The Law of Conservation of Energy was only a loose concept not yet clearly established. It is the false establishment of this Law that hinders free energy today. 

It is my opinion that Bessler?s wheel probably worked, it could have been a windup toy but I lean in favor of its validity. I am guessing that Bessler noticed that if the clock itself was moved it could hinder or enhance the velocity of the pendulum inside the clock. Here is where his genius came in; change the clock?s shape into a heavy circle. Then repeat the enhancement motion of the clock (a massive wheel) upon the pendulum and then lock the pendulum bob at its high point swing.  Then use the locked pendulum bob to enhance the motion of the wheel. Or if you will; transfer the momentum of the wheel to the bob and the bob will have more energy than that which was lost by the wheel.

I have not been able to figure it out, so I just make energy instead.  It is easy to do that.

Offline longtong3

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2008, 05:22:58 AM »
pequaide.

what is your $25.00 machine? Where do you post it?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2008, 05:22:58 AM »
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Offline pese

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2008, 08:02:23 AM »
Think about it
120 jears after Bessler, also an wheel was working in USA !!
Look the NET for    - Asa Jackson?s wheel -  Asa Jackson  ,
it was an working machine , in same Dimensions as the Bessler wheel !

---------
also nice to see
David Jones
Gibert?s machine  (perheps : Gilbert?s)


Pese

Offline Dgraphic911

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2008, 09:27:31 PM »
@hans

Forgive me here, an am new to this forum as well as forums in general. Hans i have enjoyed reading most of your replies on many different subjects posted and consider your insight extremely helpful. I have a thought, which when your new to a forum may have been asked (if so i apologize). But in regards to your obvoius education on the time period and the people of Besslers time.

Q: if this device was being shown to so many people and it appeared to work, How is it that noone ever just took the device and used it for themselves. I know i may seem tyranical but thats the thought that crossed my mind. If its in my castle and I have the guards then possesion in 9/10ths as they say. I am just curious how a 1 man or even a few could stop anyone else from "looking behind" the curtain as it were ? Why did noone relieve bessler of his possesions? How does anyone in a feudal society demand high payment for something that can easily be taken?

I ask myself , if bessler was in my garage today and showed me this wheel  but was ranting and raving about money and threatening to destroy it, what would i do ?

Anyone else who may have an opinion i would love to hear it.
This site is great. 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #40 on: February 22, 2008, 09:27:31 PM »
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Offline Joh70

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #41 on: February 22, 2008, 09:54:18 PM »
i would respect the inventors decision and ask him to lower the price. if not, he can go home. His sponsor Landgraf Karl zu Hessen promised him not to tell anybody about its function-principle. therefor Bessler showed him the interior of his wheel. integritiy is more than money, even when this has disadvantages.

Offline pequaide

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2008, 02:05:41 AM »
What I think is the power stroke of Bessler?s wheel is found in: Free energy from gravitation using Newtonian Physics.

It only shows you how to make energy, and the current models only go through one cycle. A cycling model would be far less complex than a piston engine, and is easily within the engineering capacity of a small machine shop.

If Bessler was successful; I think he incorporated this cylinder and spheres concept into a portion of his wheel. It is not about balance it is about momentum conservation.

At 26 RPM the average mass of the wheel is moving at 2.5 m/sec; only a small portion of this momentum needs to be transferred to a rigid pendulum in order that the pendulum could rise 1 meter and then the bob locked in its drive position.     

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2008, 02:47:03 AM »
Dgraphic911
Why did noone relieve bessler of his possesions? How does anyone in a feudal society demand high payment for something that can easily be taken?

I ask myself , if Bessler was in my garage today and showed me this wheel  but was ranting and raving about money and threatening to destroy it, what would i do ?

Anyone else who may have an opinion i would love to hear it.
This site is great. 

Well it can be very simple, Karl could have been waiting on his cut for protection. Bessler had many supporters as well and to just try to take it without some form of legal coverage, would most likely cost you your life. Not to mention you would have had to kill Bessler to take it as well for he would not have given it up easily. Bessler was worth more alive so he would have been protected. IMO

Pese 
 
 I just ordered the DVD of closeups and the book on Asa Jackson. The story is that there are some missing parts and the people who reassembled it didn't do it correctly either for it was in peaces. So I thought I would give it a closer look. Who knows he could have got a hold of some original Bessler writings and drawings as well.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: Here it is, Bessler's 12 ft wheel
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2008, 07:06:16 AM »
@hans

Forgive me here, an am new to this forum as well as forums in general. Hans i have enjoyed reading most of your replies on many different subjects posted and consider your insight extremely helpful. I have a thought, which when your new to a forum may have been asked (if so i apologize). But in regards to your obvoius education on the time period and the people of Besslers time.

Q: if this device was being shown to so many people and it appeared to work, How is it that noone ever just took the device and used it for themselves. I know i may seem tyranical but thats the thought that crossed my mind. If its in my castle and I have the guards then possesion in 9/10ths as they say. I am just curious how a 1 man or even a few could stop anyone else from "looking behind" the curtain as it were ? Why did noone relieve bessler of his possesions? How does anyone in a feudal society demand high payment for something that can easily be taken?

I ask myself , if bessler was in my garage today and showed me this wheel  but was ranting and raving about money and threatening to destroy it, what would i do ?

Anyone else who may have an opinion i would love to hear it.
This site is great. 

G'day Dgraphic and all,

This is a question I have been asking myself for a long time. There are many things about Bessler that are mysterious, like who was he and where did he come from.

I have spoken on this in other places but here are the main points.

Bessler was literate in German and Latin, not a common thing in his day. He was an accomplished draftsman, judging by his drawings. He had a good grounding in physics and engineering of the day. He had access to the crowned heads of Germany at least, if not of Europe. He worked, at least some of his life, for a living by designing and building things. In fact he was killed in a work related accident while building or repairing a windmill. He had also access to substantial funds as the publication of his book shows. It is a beautiful edition, not cheap to produce.

This is the most unusual profile of anyone I have ever heard of in that time period.

Where did he get his education? Who paid for it? Why could he seemingly mix at will with the gentry?

These are unanswered questions.

My best guess is that he was the illegitimate, but loved, son of a prince or king or at the very least someone very high up in the aristocracy with immense power. It is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Hans von Lieven

 

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