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Author Topic: Nathan Stubblefield Earth battery/Self Generating Induction Coil Replications  (Read 1704086 times)

Artic_Knight

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #690 on: January 04, 2008, 03:40:09 AM »
jenna and all

if i implied that this jule thief would not work then i apologize because it will work. how well is the question, and jenna you are right pulsing is part of the way it conserves energy and lights a bulb. 

what this device does is raise the energy available to a usable voltage (doesnt matter how many amps you have if the voltage isnt high enough. to do the work) now we pulse it and it turns on and off. but if it does it fast enough it will save power because its not a constant draw and give us the current needed to create a percieved constant light. what the amps is good for i dont know i really cant explain it. in fact with my current knowledge i cant explain why anything draws the amps it does. seems like you could drop the amps to me and it would still work. but then im not a electritian either. my grand father is and he cant really explain it either  :P

what im saying is if you want a jule thief take an iron nail and with some math you can up the voltage to what ever you want, but its going to lower your amps.  this is a induction coil or transformer of sorts. i will be making one to attempt to light my led later.

bill since you have achieved 1.8 volt at several miliamp i would suggest trying to run several led's in parallel.

if you want to "double" your watt output you can pulse the current, if its off for a second then on for a second you will have stored X amount of power in a cap so when its on you can draw XX amount of current to power your device. however this means the light will flicker, if its fast enough you can "double" the usable power and make it look like the light never turns off.  they really should use this curcuit in light bulbs  ;) ;D  its a gimic but for certain apps like Lights it works considerably well.

Pirate88179

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #691 on: January 04, 2008, 04:05:04 AM »
@ Artic Knight:

Great information.  This reminds me of a device marketed in the 70's which was a simple disc that you put in the base of an incandecent light bulb fixture.  They "claimed" that a 100 watt bulb would still be just as bright (to the eye?) and use 50% less power.  Looking back I now believe that possibly this device pulsed the light, on and off like you are saying, and it "appeared" to be just as bright.  I am now messing with leds that flash.  If I could get them in sync then I could have two lit, for the power of one.  One off, and one on...etc.  Look at Tesla's 60 cycle ac that we still use in our homes today.  Any incandecent bulb in our houses turns off and on 60 times per second, right?  We don't see that do we?  And to me, with my limited but growing knowledge of things electrical, if I have a light and it is off just as much as it is on, would that not mean a 50% power savings?  My plan was to sync several flashing leds so some were on while the others were off.  Possibly double the light output with the same power.  What do you folks think?

Bill

Freezer

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #692 on: January 04, 2008, 04:24:21 AM »
@ Artic Knight:

Great information.  This reminds me of a device marketed in the 70's which was a simple disc that you put in the base of an incandecent light bulb fixture.  They "claimed" that a 100 watt bulb would still be just as bright (to the eye?) and use 50% less power.  Looking back I now believe that possibly this device pulsed the light, on and off like you are saying, and it "appeared" to be just as bright.  I am now messing with leds that flash.  If I could get them in sync then I could have two lit, for the power of one.  One off, and one on...etc.  Look at Tesla's 60 cycle ac that we still use in our homes today.  Any incandecent bulb in our houses turns off and on 60 times per second, right?  We don't see that do we?  And to me, with my limited but growing knowledge of things electrical, if I have a light and it is off just as much as it is on, would that not mean a 50% power savings?  My plan was to sync several flashing leds so some were on while the others were off.  Possibly double the light output with the same power.  What do you folks think?

Bill

http://www.techass.com/el/docs/m4zman.pdf

The flashlights these guys sell run on the same principle of using a circuit to adjust the pulse frequency of the leds.  It can last a lot longer and appear to have similar brightness, but as you pulse slower it lowers in intensity.  Its actually a pretty interesting light, as its fully adjustable.  I think if we made some really simple circuit which limits power, and lowers the pulse but not to much, and that would atleast conserve power.  I think the goal would be figuring out how to amplify, and if there's some way to speed up the flow by way of pulsing at certain ranges.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 05:22:16 AM by Freezer »

Artic_Knight

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #693 on: January 04, 2008, 04:26:44 AM »
bill

to start lets discuss ac. ac is a constant current or constant voltage similiar to dc only that it changes the positive and negative poles 60 times a second. the incandecent light is a wire that gets white hot basically melting but 60 times a second the current reverses in this bulb, it never stops sucking juice and never turns off.

now as far as saving electricity with pulsing that depends on how you work it. if you need XX current then you will turn off the light for X current then turn on for XX  so that it can be powered. and this will not save any power but mearly double the workload for the available power.  if however you have a light that takes X current and you turn it off as much as it is on or pulse it then when its off it saves X current. in the case of the incandecent bulb if you pulsed it assuming it worked for those bulbs (dont see why not) then you would essentially get a 50 watt bulb for 100 watt brightness. however im fairly sure in the incandecent case it would just become dim. maybe not if its pulsed fast enough.

my goal here is to light the smallest halogen light i can buy, if thats a 5 watt halogen then i want it lit! if i can find a trick to help me like the jule thief transformer then why not?  it might not power a house but i get free outside lighting!

Artic_Knight

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #694 on: January 04, 2008, 04:43:47 AM »
maybe this explenation is better:

i have .52 volt at 2 miliamp if i make a step up transformer (the wound wire) i would need 4 windings on the battery side and 14 windings on the led side that would give me 1.82 volt at .75 miliamp (the ratio is 3.5 which adds to voltage and takes from amps) now if i pulse it equal on and equal off it can draw 1.82 volt at 1.5 miliamp when on without draining the cap or exceeding the input. that is what the jule thief does. if you use a variant of this on the batteries (more inportantly the pulsing) you can double the run time.  the rate at which you pulse does not affect it as long as it has equal off and equal on.

jeanna

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #695 on: January 04, 2008, 05:04:18 AM »
OK to save on words here is a picture
I charge my circuit by putting the battery leads between points D & E on the upper right. Both lights shine brightly. I hold that and count 60 seconds. Then let go. With the circuit still joined in a loop (ring), It glows brightly for longer than the green circuit has ever kept going, about 10 minutes. Then the green light looks dim but the red one still looks good. I think there are 2 reasons for this.
1- The green light's caps have a much smaller capacity and
2- there is only one cap in parallel to the green light. I believe this makes the green light run the power out faster.
I checked the various attachment places this morning and was surprised.
The voltage is the same exact measurement 1.5V between the legs of the green set and the legs of the red set. This makes sense.
Also between B - D or E - C there is 1.5V
BUT there is no voltage between B - E , A - F, A - E, F - B.
In a way I can see that all charge has stopped moving because there is no unbalance anywhere.

So Bill,
This is the reason I wanted to check your circuit closed in a loop. Close the open points and check all connections for voltage while the light still glows then I assume but please check to see that there is still voltage between some of the points after the light goes out.
I hope this picture helps. It is very hard to describe.

here goes picture
jeanna
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 05:35:28 AM by jeanna »

Pirate88179

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #696 on: January 04, 2008, 05:23:29 AM »
@ Jeanna:

The figure I gave you in my earlier response to your question was with the led illuminated and the circuit "closed".  Now, to get a reading after the led goes out, by that do you mean to let it burn for an hour or so off of the cap, and then check?  Or, do you mean to break my circuit by removing the + lead from the annode of the led and then check?  I am sorry to appear so stupid but I want to be clear on what you would like to know.

@ Artic Knight:

I understand what you are saying.  The only thing I might not agree with is the ac (house) current at 60 Hz.  I , like a lot of people, can actually see some 60 cycle effects.  For example, when I got my new computer monitor, it's default refresh rate was 60Hz.  I used it for less than 10 minutes and got a bad headache.  I then adjusted the refresh rate to 85 Hz and now, no problem.  I can't see it in incandescent bulbs but I can see it in flourecent light fixtures. I don't mean the flicker from a bad ballast, I am talking about the on/off of the 60 hz ac.  Now, you say not on/off but rather reverse of current flow, which I know is true but, I believe it also has the effect of essentialy turning on and off as well. I don't know this to be a fact, I am only bringing it up for discussion.  What do you think?  Interesting that you said it does not matter the frequency as long as off as much as on.  This makes perfect sense to me.  If you were in the woods at night with a flashlight, and so was I, and you pulsed your light on and off at whatever cycles, it would last longer than mine would being on all the time.  Like you said, the trick is to find the proper "rate" that gives the "same" light output with extended life. and now enter the joule thief.  I have no idea what might happen with one of these on the cells outside, but, I want to find out.  Thanks.

Bill


jeanna

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #697 on: January 04, 2008, 05:52:15 AM »
@ Jeanna:
The figure I gave you in my earlier response to your question was with the led illuminated and the circuit "closed".  Now, to get a reading after the led goes out, by that do you mean to let it burn for an hour or so off of the cap, and then check?  Or, do you mean to break my circuit by removing the + lead from the annode of the led and then check?  I am sorry to appear so stupid but I want to be clear on what you would like to know.
Bill
I mean for you to check all the points including with the circuit broken open. I think you have it clipped? I am not asking you to unsolder it, I think.
A - B closed and open
C - D but be sure to get INSIDE the leads so you capture what is going on between the light and cap. and do this with the loop closed and open.

See, what I am thinking is that when you have closed the loop the charge that leaves the light can continue around the loop and recharge the cap. While the cap is recharging the light is still lighting (sooo cooool) then when the cap gets full it begins to discharge and it lights the light and then the charge goes around the loop one more time to refill the cap (while it is lighting the light).

The green one that I have that is made like yours discharges in about 20 seconds. It is really too fast to fumble with meter leads in time to make a reading. This is why I am asking you to do it.

thanks a lot,
jeanna

Pirate88179

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #698 on: January 04, 2008, 06:18:35 AM »
@ Jeanna:

OK, I got you.  I never really thought about this but I think you are right.  If the cap. has x power and the led only uses x-whatever, then the rest of the juice continues round back into the cap.  A brilliant circuit.  Too bad I have to admit I just stumbled into it. (sigh) And, you have said that leds will use some power and when the power decreases they will use that.  I have read that elsewhere as well.  This is really fun you know it?  I will do the tests you requested and get back to you.

A side note:  I had this cigarette lighter (cheap, made in China) that had flashing leds on the outside of it.  I just wanted a lighter but, it was chaep and it worked, for a while anyway.  Well, it tore up and I took it apart. (salvage)  I found 2 leds of different colors mounted on a printed circuitboard.  They are very small but will flash alternately from the cap.  And, my regular led will also light while this happens.  I have not yet tried this attached to the cells outside. (18 degrees F here right now)  If I can get them all lighting and flashing outside, I will make a short video and post it on youtube.  Keep up your thinking and experimenting.  I will let you know about the tests on my circuit.

Bill

jeanna

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #699 on: January 04, 2008, 07:19:34 AM »
@ Jeanna:

OK, I got you.  I never really thought about this but I think you are right.  If the cap. has x power and the led only uses x-whatever, then the rest of the juice continues round back into the cap.  A brilliant circuit.  Too bad I have to admit I just stumbled into it. (sigh)

But see that is the part about the forum think tank. I have been LOOKING for this for years and when I had begun to get close in that class I got distracted and never even tried it. Maybe the teacher told me to forget it it wouldn't work. I had not considered it was possible anymore. And the all of a sudden thanks to you there it was!!
And, you have said that leds will use some power and when the power decreases they will use that.  I have read that elsewhere as well.  This is really fun you know it?  I will do the tests you requested and get back to you.

  Keep up your thinking and experimenting.  I will let you know about the tests on my circuit.

Bill

Thanks
Yea this is really fun. I look forward to the measurements AND the video.

I just put together my joule thief. I hope the rain lets up enough tomorrow so I can use it for a light between carbon granules and Mg block. It is set up with a white. I will make it with a red which I just found.

jeanna

cub3

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #700 on: January 04, 2008, 08:21:10 AM »
Hi All,

I may be very far off topic. Trying to find purity ie %  of Magnesium in fire starters. 

In Aussie land. the last thing we need are fire starters !!

What is the magnesium composition / % of various automotive components

A site which id rather long, do not dismiss immediately.

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/answers2/frontend.php/question?qid=20071016194934AA0QBBc

Den

Pirate88179

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #701 on: January 04, 2008, 09:42:28 PM »
@ All:

I found this on the net today.

http://www.anodesystems.com/pro5.html

Look at this quote from the anode site:

"A 17 pound magnesium anode can produce 1 amp of d.c. current for 1 year; therefore, if it produced 1/10 amp, it would last 10 years compared to 3-1/2 years for a 5 pound anode. A 17 pound anode placed in 1,000 ohm-cm clay would generate 170 M.A. of current and would last only 6 years. If the clay's resistivity is 2,000 ohm-cm, it would last 11 years. In 10,000 ohm-cm dry sand, it would last 52 years. A normal current output is under 100 M.A. However, this engineer has seen the natural current output of a magnesium anode reach 200 milliamps (M.A.)"

Evidently these are used when installing underground tanks but check out that it gives 1 AMP!!  Even the 200 mA figure sounds good to me. 

I will go back and see if I can find any pricing on these.

Bill

IndianaBoys

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #702 on: January 04, 2008, 10:02:39 PM »
http://www.anodesystems.com/order.html

19a ANODE, 17 lb. Magnesium
With 10 ft. wire - Shipping Not Included ea $ 54.50

IndianaBoys

Pirate88179

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #703 on: January 04, 2008, 10:08:12 PM »
@ IndianaBoys:

Thanks, I saw that when I went back.  I am still checking around and have found some even cheaper.  They make magnesium anodes for hot water heaters (rod shape) and they should not be all that much.  I wish I knew this a while ago. Thanks for posting it.

This might be a great step forward in upping our power.  That 1 amp output for a year quoted on the anodesystems site did not say anything about a cathode spaced away from the anode on the n/s meridian so, maybe we can get even more???  I need to check into this.

Bill

hansvonlieven

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Re: Earth battery expermients
« Reply #704 on: January 04, 2008, 10:30:16 PM »
G'day everybody,

To make it easier for those of you who are following my current line of research (the Stubblefield series) I have just uploaded my posts on the subject onto my website. This way everything is presented as a total project in sequential form. I will keep it updated as the need arises.

the URL is  http://keelytech.com/stubblefield.html

any comments are appreciated

Greetings from Down Under

Hans von Lieven