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(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
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Author Topic: A working ball wheel  (Read 17919 times)

Offline armagdn03

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2007, 05:13:13 PM »
Hans brilliant assessment, only one little thing that you may have missed. You observed that the center of gravity will fall on a point excentric to the disk. You also noted that in order to have the wheel run true, one would have to compensate. Since there are more than one wheel in the stack, and they are arranged in a geometrically perfect arangement, with equal rotation they should balance each other out when assembled. This problem should take care of itself. However, perhaps it could be exploited?

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2007, 05:13:13 PM »

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2007, 05:58:50 PM »
Hans
 
I have 1 other question. On your drawings with 12 block sections, there is 6 positive 1 neutral, and 5 negative. Lets add some momentum also note the the neutral balls are still rolling. Wouldn't that have a loping effect when running and just enough to run if it runs?

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2007, 09:04:39 PM »
G'day all,

@ arma,

What you are saying about the displacement of the centre of gravity and about the forces so created canceling each other out is certainly true if there are no balls in the system and the drum runs empty.

With the balls in play I am not so certain they would. Let us just briefly examine what it is that we are trying to do here. How are we trying to achieve rotation?

Looking at one disk and one ball as a unit and following the movement of the ball during one complete revolution we notice that the distance between the centre of gravity of the ball changes its distance from the axle to return to its starting position after one complete turn. With each change of distance from the axle the centre of gravity of the UNIT gets displaced. In other words we are trying to achieve rotation by manipulation of the centre of gravity.

In the above example the cutout is almost exactly radial. That means that the shift of the centre of gravity is almost exactly in the oppoite direction to the position of the ball. In other words in its optimum position of potential energy it acts as a counterweight. That effect would have to be cumulative over the entire structure.

What further complicates the issue is that the ball does not move in a straight line in relation to the new centre of gravity. That means that the effective potential energy is adversely affected to a different degree for each change of position of the ball.

These effects are impossible to calculate in a general way, they can only be established for a given configuration.

The factors that have to be taken into consideration when assessing the forces at play are the shape of the cavity, the weight of the disk and the weight of the ball the material used in the ball and the disk as this determines the drag imposed by friction on the ball and so forth.

Very complex stuff for such a simple contraption :-) Even a complete mathematical analysis will at best be only an approximation. Real parameters have to be established by experimentation and measurement.

Which brings me to Hammer's question.

Is there enough inertia building up over the "working cycle" to compensate for the adverse cycle? I would say not. There are too many factors adversely affecting the system for it to do that.

Hans von Lieven

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2007, 09:04:39 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2007, 11:53:47 PM »
Hans
 I wish I could talk like you, but it seams that my mind is full of shapes and lacking for words.

To all who follows this thread.

 I will go ahead an build the 1st type again in wood, Plexiglas and steel this time, if nothing else but for at least my own peace of mind. But this time I will use disk so I can make it thinner and make an AVI of it, to show.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 12:20:18 AM by AB Hammer »

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2007, 12:18:06 AM »
You are doing well Hammer,

Keep trying, if you need my input at any time feel free to contact me, privately if you wish.

Good luck

Hans von Lieven

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2007, 12:18:06 AM »
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Offline Prophmaji

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2007, 02:40:09 AM »
Just remember the rule of the ball stopping, and starting. those are the two gretest losses. Specifically the dead start aspect.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2007, 07:46:55 PM »
Well it is time to report on the 1st design. The mass of the wood was much too great for it and it wouldn't run. The second version will be done in another week, for I am only aloud to work on them on week ends. I have the video and it will show some of the problem with the rolling back and forth disk. Note I am turning it by hand to show the movement. If you PM me with your email, I can send it to you, if the avi don't post.

I do have some corrections to do (like bore large holes in the wood to lighten it up), but that will go on the back burner for now, and since I did this one I am thinking of doing a little change to the 2nd version as well.

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2007, 07:46:55 PM »
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Offline Freezer

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2007, 08:46:21 PM »
Well it is time to report on the 1st design. The mass of the wood was much too great for it and it wouldn't run. The second version will be done in another week, for I am only aloud to work on them on week ends. I have the video and it will show some of the problem with the rolling back and forth disk. Note I am turning it by hand to show the movement. If you PM me with your email, I can send it to you, if the avi don't post.

I do have some corrections to do (like bore large holes in the wood to lighten it up), but that will go on the back burner for now, and since I did this one I am thinking of doing a little change to the 2nd version as well.

The idea is pretty good.  I think you should bend a piece of thin acrylic plastic in those organic shapes, instead of using a solid wood cylinder.  That would cut the weight dramatically.  You could make the shape in two halves using a wood shape as your guide, then glue them using acrylic glue.

Offline hansvonlieven

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2007, 11:16:26 PM »
G'day Alan and all,

Looking at the video it appears that you are wasting a lot of energy in the centre of the wheel with your disk bouncing back and forth.

You seem to have more than enough energy to transport the disk to the other side, so why not try the following arrangement. No guarantee it will work but it sure is a lot more efficient than the current configuration. You will also get two working cycles per revolution.

Good luck, let us know how you are going with this.

Hans von Lieven

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #38 on: October 28, 2007, 11:16:26 PM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #39 on: October 29, 2007, 12:01:01 AM »
The second set of wheels disk are already cut out, and here they are. I am still looking at a newer twist to this story so please be patient.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2007, 08:34:28 PM »
Here is that wheel and new modification coming shortly.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2007, 08:34:28 PM »
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Offline enigma

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #41 on: January 03, 2008, 10:50:20 PM »
Why not use a liquid, instead of a ball.

I suppose liquid has less friction, maybe quicksilver

just a suggestion.

Do you have a update on your progress Hammer?

Regards,

Enigma

Offline pese

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2008, 11:18:42 PM »
mercury,
 is very heavy and follow very quick each movement.

Also in Electro-devices, mercury was used to swapp-making contacts in an glas-tube. (before WW2)
The rosenkreuzer have also used this -possibly- for small-diameter PM-wheels to have high power.
(Sorry , i cant find any details over this in google & co.
Some old knowledges , but shure, i have not seen this device, read old books 50 years ago .



Pese

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: A working ball wheel
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2008, 11:41:14 PM »
enigma

 I have set these to the side for awhile, due to newer research, but I have made some changes to the ball/disk wheels, so when I get back to them they will have better hope. But at this time I am trying to perfect a wheel that shows that it will not reach equilibrium, which I am very excited about, and it has all my attention.

And Thank You all
Pese and hansvonlieven and others on this srings. I will be back on these in a few months.

 

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