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Author Topic: Rotation?  (Read 12372 times)

Offline BEP

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Rotation?
« on: October 11, 2007, 11:37:45 PM »
Just a question......

I believe there are at least two individuals here who have achieved this in a meaningful way. i.e. Smooth rotation - that is - not the jerking type you find in a motor stator and not the type where the compass just jerks wildly from one switching polarity to another where the momentum of the needle carries it to the next pole.

Can anyone describe how you achieved this? Will anyone even admit to it?

Late edit:

And for those who have created this rotation and don't even know it - what am I suppose to say?

Still another - For those preferring to repeat the SM dogma - just post a schematic or coil build details. If I want to hear that information again I'll just read the SM translations - AGAIN. Don't bother with an alter ego. When doing such a thing you must understand that you must be consistent when using that personality. Otherwise it is all too easy to figure who is doing the talking  :)
« Last Edit: October 12, 2007, 04:30:13 AM by BEP »

Offline MACEDONIA CD

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2007, 12:20:48 AM »
HI 
if you make control coils whit raid turns in the many way then you get moving elektrones   in the colector coil    only whit one kick  you make 10000  kick per second if you make some this control coils whit this efeckt  only whit one kick of dc voltage  whitout oscilations  only one push of puting the dc voltage you whill make 10000 kick 

if you make this  that can the ansfer  for all problems

Offline duff

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2007, 02:29:31 AM »
.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 05:26:31 PM by duff »

Offline bolt

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2007, 05:35:58 AM »
i don't think there is a forced rotation for a start it would be too complex. Second the tpu is known to go the other way south of the equator so the spin is self induced. As the frequencies are applied small pulses appear from the feedback loop which get stronger. This increases the magnetic flux which begins to rotate all by magic  :o

... because scaler waves are already high speed vortex in there own right.

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2007, 07:58:24 AM »
Let me explain, as best as I understand the phenomena in my mind at this moment, and see if anything new turns up.

I think we are dealing with , for want of a better term, somewhat of a particle accelerator.

In a linear mode, the magnetic field would be viewable as starting at one end of the unit, then "zipping" down the length of the unit until it reaches the other end. Now, imagine a series of these toroidal shaped fields (imagine a long doughnut) propogating at the same time down the length of the unit.

In the center is a single thick wire. The magnetic field is penetrating but a small distance into the skin of this conductor, as it traverses the length of it. The field is not cutting the conductor, it is penetrating into it. The magnetic field, due to attraction and repulsion of the magnetic fields of the spinning electrons in the conductor, strips and pushes some of the electrons down the length of the wire in phase with the magnetic field. This leaves "holes" in the conductor, to which free electrons flow.

We now have an electrical gradient, or potential difference between the ends of the conductor. Since the fields are traveling in only one direction, free electrons can only flow in to fill the holes from one direction.

An electrical gradient is formed, from which useful power can be extracted. However limited this may be with a linear unit.

However, we are not talking about this effect in a linear unit. We are talking a circular path for the magnetic field to travel.

We then have a rotating magnetic wave which, until power is cut to the driving circuit, never stops traveling. Pass by pass it builds in strength, until the limitations of the driving circuit can no longer amplify the effect. As the field builds, it is able to strip more and more electrons. This means a higher potential gradient until maximum field strength is reached, which also limits the maximum number of electrons it is able to affect, and the maximum voltage gradient is achieved.

This rotating wave is dissimilar to the rotating wave principle that tesla based his induction motor upon. Imagine instead an example of the field of a toroidal (tube) shaped magnet with the ends magnetized, with a rod connecting the midpoint of the magnet to the center of rotation. You have a tube shaped field rotating around the center of rotation, with north and south ends always facing one direction, never reversing polarity........

This effect can ONLY be produced with pulsed DC. (A.C. reverses voltage polarity, therefore reverses field polarity and the effect never starts.)

The effect will ONLY complete more than one rotation if the circumference of the path is equal to a resonant length of the frequency used. (otherwise, the field would not be in the proper point in time to recieve amplification form the next pulse of the driver circuit.)

The collector coils MUST be resonant tuned to this frequency (or the applied signal will not be self amplifying in the collectors themselves, as significant back emf occurs cancelling out any pulse voltage or current summing.)

This effect could start on a miniscule scale, such as possible with only a small 9v battery and a couple of simple 555 timer driver circuits could provide. The effect would be due to signal summing through internal signal reflection in the collector coils. Two possabilities:

1. Imagine the end of the wire falling directly at the midpoint of a wave, in which there then causes a self amplifying standing wave in the collector. (Think possibly ungrounded collectors to achieve this.)
2. Two signals in the same wire, in which the higher frequency wave is exactly three times the frequency of the lower. (The rise and fall times of the lower frequency are precisely matched with the higher, therefore no cancellation of voltage at these points, and summing occurs.)

This effect could be quite dangerous, if too closely attuned. (Imagine a runaway self amplifying rotating magnetic field, which would only stop when the machine supporting it is destroyed, which the field strength itself would eventually do.....  :o )

How to control the field? Easy as pie. Slightly mismatch conductor lengths on one of the control coils. This will throw the field slightly out of sync, thus severely limiting the maximum field amplification.

Did this catch anyones attention?  ;D

Paul Andrulis


Offline Esa Maunu

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2007, 12:49:24 PM »
If you have a rotating magnetic field in for example in a electric motor, so there is no field strenght amplification, even when the input power is in sync with the rotation. You see that there is a interferece in your setup?

Esa


Let me explain, as best as I understand the phenomena in my mind at this moment, and see if anything new turns up.

I think we are dealing with , for want of a better term, somewhat of a particle accelerator.

In a linear mode, the magnetic field would be viewable as starting at one end of the unit, then "zipping" down the length of the unit until it reaches the other end. Now, imagine a series of these toroidal shaped fields (imagine a long doughnut) propogating at the same time down the length of the unit.

In the center is a single thick wire. The magnetic field is penetrating but a small distance into the skin of this conductor, as it traverses the length of it. The field is not cutting the conductor, it is penetrating into it. The magnetic field, due to attraction and repulsion of the magnetic fields of the spinning electrons in the conductor, strips and pushes some of the electrons down the length of the wire in phase with the magnetic field. This leaves "holes" in the conductor, to which free electrons flow.

We now have an electrical gradient, or potential difference between the ends of the conductor. Since the fields are traveling in only one direction, free electrons can only flow in to fill the holes from one direction.

An electrical gradient is formed, from which useful power can be extracted. However limited this may be with a linear unit.

However, we are not talking about this effect in a linear unit. We are talking a circular path for the magnetic field to travel.

We then have a rotating magnetic wave which, until power is cut to the driving circuit, never stops traveling. Pass by pass it builds in strength, until the limitations of the driving circuit can no longer amplify the effect. As the field builds, it is able to strip more and more electrons. This means a higher potential gradient until maximum field strength is reached, which also limits the maximum number of electrons it is able to affect, and the maximum voltage gradient is achieved.

This rotating wave is dissimilar to the rotating wave principle that tesla based his induction motor upon. Imagine instead an example of the field of a toroidal (tube) shaped magnet with the ends magnetized, with a rod connecting the midpoint of the magnet to the center of rotation. You have a tube shaped field rotating around the center of rotation, with north and south ends always facing one direction, never reversing polarity........

This effect can ONLY be produced with pulsed DC. (A.C. reverses voltage polarity, therefore reverses field polarity and the effect never starts.)

The effect will ONLY complete more than one rotation if the circumference of the path is equal to a resonant length of the frequency used. (otherwise, the field would not be in the proper point in time to recieve amplification form the next pulse of the driver circuit.)

The collector coils MUST be resonant tuned to this frequency (or the applied signal will not be self amplifying in the collectors themselves, as significant back emf occurs cancelling out any pulse voltage or current summing.)

This effect could start on a miniscule scale, such as possible with only a small 9v battery and a couple of simple 555 timer driver circuits could provide. The effect would be due to signal summing through internal signal reflection in the collector coils. Two possabilities:

1. Imagine the end of the wire falling directly at the midpoint of a wave, in which there then causes a self amplifying standing wave in the collector. (Think possibly ungrounded collectors to achieve this.)
2. Two signals in the same wire, in which the higher frequency wave is exactly three times the frequency of the lower. (The rise and fall times of the lower frequency are precisely matched with the higher, therefore no cancellation of voltage at these points, and summing occurs.)

This effect could be quite dangerous, if too closely attuned. (Imagine a runaway self amplifying rotating magnetic field, which would only stop when the machine supporting it is destroyed, which the field strength itself would eventually do.....  :o )

How to control the field? Easy as pie. Slightly mismatch conductor lengths on one of the control coils. This will throw the field slightly out of sync, thus severely limiting the maximum field amplification.

Did this catch anyones attention?  ;D

Paul Andrulis



Offline BEP

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2007, 02:24:28 PM »
The question was who has done it and how.

So are you all saying that you have achieved this?

Good points though. The standing wave is already there. The only things needed are creating the gradient and keeping it just off center so it can be maintained.

Those messing with supposed Soliton generating coils - when you look straight down the end of your coil what do you see? If you didn't know it was so long you might think it was a torus would'nt you?

Does anyone on this forum understand that the 'field lines' (poor term) in and around a PM are not straight. When you do your iron filing on paper experiment they look straight. You need to look closer. Those iron filings don't lie flat on that paper. They are leaning on one end.

I'm worrying that I am actually living on Flatland as described by Carl Sagan.

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2007, 03:00:16 PM »
The vortex or helix forms naturally in the direction pertaining to the north/south hemi. It is there fore just a simple matter to create a vertical potential difference / vacuum. All that has to be done is pull the plug and the direction will find itself.
Lets go one step further shall we?
If you create a spinning field of great intensity in a counterclockwise direction you could achieve a lightning strike. If you cause a clockwise rotation you could lift or alter matter. Duh. Can you say 'Hutchison effect'. He uses two spherical fields and one directional impact field at very high frequencies. He claims no control but the authorities have seen through this guise and repeatedly take his equipment. That does not stop him. He does it again, and again, again. So what is our congestion / contention?

Keely vibrated plasma to effect matter. Square waves shock matter into magno-electrical force. Telsa vibrated physical matter, magnetic fields, and the ionosphere to effect energy transmission.
We bang on keyboards hoping to fly away with the answer.

--giantkiller. I don't know it all but I am having fun finding out.

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2007, 06:58:45 PM »
@esa

Yes, there is a rotational magnetic field in an induction electrical motor, and no there is no field strength amplification. This is due to three reasons.

1. The input driving source is anything BUT in sync with the field. (50-60hz AC is a very long wave, for such a very short conductor.)
2. The field is nonlinear, and is 90 degrees out of phase half of the time.
3. The driving source is AC and not pulsed DC, therefore back emf destroys resonance.

@BEP

Who has achieved this? Quite many, too a small degree:

Otto, Ronotte, Giantkiller, Jason (Jdo300), Camster6, just to name but a few, whether they knew it or not. I could tell because of the sound, as well as other effects.... (hunh?)

Yes, the sound. The warbling humming in their videos from their TPU's is a dead giveaway, of 2 things. Rotating field, and way too low of frequencies. The sound would be produced by the fields interaction with ions in the air. The charged particles in the air move due to the moving electromagnetic field.  If the frequency of this vibration is within the range of hearing, then it is audible. This effect is also noticeable with ac fields of high strength. (transformer hum for instance)

Each pass around the coil can be considered in hertz, with one rotation per second being 1 hertz. If it spins around the coil 100 times per second, you will hear a 100 hertz vibrational hum.

Listen to the tpu's in camster6's youtube and google vids, ginatkilleroverunity's "tpu sings" vids, and others. The control coils in these units are way too small considering the emf involved to account for the field strength necessary to induce the amount of ion movement (how loud the humming) to state that it is normal field hum for the applied current. Remember that field strength in a solenoid is due to number of turns and amount of current flow, in other words ampere turns. Not nearly enough turns, though in some cases almost enough current.

Why hasen't anyone obtained mark's results yet?

1. You cant get a cowbell to ring properly by hitting it with a sledgehammer. (overdriving)  ???
2. Finding a needle in a haystack is a tough way to find a working frequency pair. (building the coils with no thought to their resonant frequencies.)  :P

Because of number 2, for most the process is a hit and miss whether it works at all. For those whom have achieved the effect to any degree, it determines the efficiency of the device. The natural resonant frequencies of the control coils have to be harmonic with the frequencies of the circumference of the collector coil. 

You CAN achieve results by accident (the basic process of inventing. Trial and error), but that is the expensive, time consuming, HARD way to do it.  ;)

Once you know resonance is involved, you DESIGN the unit to resonate on purpose. I can perform horribly inadequate arc welding with a quarter, a car battery, and a pair of jumper cables in a pinch, but does that mean I would purposefully build an arc welder that way?  :-\

The pioneers in this replication process have accomplished a great deal, and I in no manner disparage their work. However, there is a time for skull sweat, just as much as back sweat. If we do not understand the processes involved, we will never have anything more than toys, or industrial accidents, however the case may be.

If we understand the processes, then we can PUPOSEFULLY build our units, in a manner that they work every time, with but a little tweaking.

I have worked out but one plausible understanding. I am not saying it is the ONLY plausible explanation, but logically the pieces fit this puzzle.

Paul Andrulis
 

Offline Esa Maunu

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2007, 07:28:03 PM »
You must remember that a pulsed DC creates a static magnetic field, that does not travel along the circumference path of the toroid.

Esa


@esa

Yes, there is a rotational magnetic field in an induction electrical motor, and no there is no field strength amplification. This is due to three reasons.

1. The input driving source is anything BUT in sync with the field. (50-60hz AC is a very long wave, for such a very short conductor.)
2. The field is nonlinear, and is 90 degrees out of phase half of the time.
3. The driving source is AC and not pulsed DC, therefore back emf destroys resonance.


Paul Andrulis
 

Offline pauldude000

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2007, 12:15:52 AM »
@Esa

I am not trying to be facetious, but where did that come from?

Whether a field is in motion relative to you, or whether at rest, the field is always moving and never "static" (in the sense of completely devoid of motion), and that is true for both DC and AC.

Even in relation to you, a DC field can move. Consider the magnetic field in a straight wire of great length, with a dc voltage applied. Electrons flow through a conductor at a given speed, which is not c by the way. This applied current requires an amount of time to flow from one end to the other. As this current flows, a linear motional magnetic field is evident. (Magnetic field moves down the length of the conductor at the same speed as the electron flow.)

The only differences between a DC created field and an AC created field, is that the AC field switches polarity with the voltage, and that the AC field varies in strength over time. That is it.

Paul Andrulis   
« Last Edit: October 13, 2007, 12:43:23 AM by pauldude000 »

Offline BEP

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2007, 06:01:33 AM »
@Esa & Pauldude000

Since this sidebar seems to relate to rotation I'll add to it.

Are we talking transverse or longitudinal?

If transverse then yes voltage travels down the long wire the same no matter what it looks like. However, if it is transverse the current lags and therefore the magnetic field lags.
If longitudinal then the current and voltage are in phase so the magnetic field travels with the voltage.

And no it is certainly not c. T waves have been proven to be slower - as much as a third depending upon the media. L waves are faster than c by about 26%. This is also recently cropping up around the globe by highly qualified sources. Last I looked most of their web sites are still there.

You can create my ideal rotation with either AC or DC but not via transverse. At least I haven't suceeded in the last 30 years. DC always seems to work best as long as it had fast rise time. AC didn't perform well probably because of slow pulse sources, media losses, personal loss of brain cells, etc.

Transverse is fine for jerking rotors around but it does not rotate the field in the stator. The rotation is 'apparent' only. Magnetic fields don't rotate upon their axis. Not normally. At least not in the sense being discussed by most here.

But like a bar magnet we can change the position of the poles. The trick is to not have dead space between one position and the next and make use of the constantly changing gradient moving around the ring as viewed from our relative position (the load connection point).

Ideally we want that true rotation because only then do we have a dilation effect that creates potential as viewed by us the fixed observers.

BTW:
Resonance - as it applies to true rotating magnetic fields - has more to do with Entrainment (as referred by physics) than ringing that bell. Instead of ringing a bell it is more like playing a singing bowl (a real one).

And Pauldude000, I don't disagree with anything you said about hammers, accidents and so on. The math needed to figure coil details for rotation generally fits on one legal pad. Maybe I need two pages if I want to make free DC.


Offline Esa Maunu

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2007, 12:29:31 PM »
Are you talking about magnetic fields or electromagnetic waves?


@Esa

I am not trying to be facetious, but where did that come from?

Whether a field is in motion relative to you, or whether at rest, the field is always moving and never "static" (in the sense of completely devoid of motion), and that is true for both DC and AC.

Even in relation to you, a DC field can move. Consider the magnetic field in a straight wire of great length, with a dc voltage applied. Electrons flow through a conductor at a given speed, which is not c by the way. This applied current requires an amount of time to flow from one end to the other. As this current flows, a linear motional magnetic field is evident. (Magnetic field moves down the length of the conductor at the same speed as the electron flow.)

The only differences between a DC created field and an AC created field, is that the AC field switches polarity with the voltage, and that the AC field varies in strength over time. That is it.

Paul Andrulis   

Offline innovation_station

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2007, 06:46:48 PM »
hey guys in playing with audiohenge i found this out

rotation is made on it own you can control the dirrection of rotation and speed by changing the freqs it is easy and can be done with all freqs  ;D

so we only need to make 2 freqs in a tpu rotation and 3rd freq are biproducts as soon as the {feedback} or 3rd freq  mixes in our balum it runs on its self and we turn our starters off  {the amps and freq gennys} because it is our feedback that is our output power and it gets amped through the coil after it is started  or right now we are force feeding 3 freqs in to see the effect insted of building and tuneing the tpu to do it on its own

 for the tpu to do its self we need the right amount of windings and freq for our distance to the balum as i understand it

ist

Offline BEP

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Re: Rotation?
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2007, 08:39:25 PM »
@IS

I don't know if you see this by experiment or theory but you are right.

2 Freqs generate the third. Same thing in antenna theory. Some satellite downlinks use this. They have two antennas 90 out from each other and two separate signals (two copies of one). Then a phase shift is introduced between the 2 signals. This creates a helical signal. They can control the pitch and direction of rotation just by adjusting the phase difference between the two signals. The result signal is stronger than the two combined.

This is exactly the problem I am correcting in my travels these past couple of months. Someone decided it couldn't possibly work well this way so they made some adjustments and took the system down. That person is not in the same position now. He didn't care if it worked this way for the past decades. He said it wasn't possible so he changed it. Now my employer is collecting big bucks for me to fix it.
Sorry to say, my pay didn't increase :'(