The next vid in the next 48 hours will be of great interest. I will post circuits on my web site so that I am covered under my disclaimer for people that try it that do not have the tools or experience to do so. You are a member so check the site...
I've created a feature page about this here: http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit)
Feel free to use this page to summarize this circuit, its performance, instructions, replications, theories.
Sterling
So, I'm hoping he has a secret he can share.
Thanks Stefan ;D
... don't know why, but this guy is a little bit suspect to me,
anyway, looking to find his circuit.
*The statements that this circuit may be a manifestation of Cold Electricity may be in error. Continued testing of the circuit has not detected particular artifacts that should be observed in a 'Cold Electricity' circuit.
There are people, such as Bruce Perrault claiming they were playing with something like that the other day and writing things like "His time in the spotlight will be short". Wow... That flavor of crazy only comes with one name.
I'm a bit confused about the use of Barium in this device. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the only Barium I see in this device is in the ferrite tuning beads. Right? The old radio antennas contain no Barium, or do they? Am now trying to source that very thin multi-conductor wire used in the coils....not so easy to find. Will post a source when I find one.
Would like to remind everyone of Dr. Stiffler's clear disclaimer about his environment NOT being setup with proper shielding and grounding, and the presence of a nearby radio transmitter might easily explain everything.
James
@ Spewing
Why don't you start at the beginning of the thread and start reading. Than at about page two you will see the schematic. You might just run into some links to video and his web site along the way too.
To just jump to the end and demand everyone fill you in on what you are too lazy to read is insulting and makes you look like a child.
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOxvveTWPA
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOxvveTWPA
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOxvveTWPA
Hi Ron,
very well done !
Now we can actually see the
power amplification and it is not
caused by the local radio station !
schematic:
schematic:
Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...
schematic:
Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...
I just got a message from Dr.Stiffler stating it is just a 50 ohm
load resistor for the signal generator to match the impedance.
Well in this case it seems more likely,
that we really see here more energy out than in.
linda933: "Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here! I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects! What's up with that attitude?"
Indeed. There are many "attitudes" being displayed here, and without making value judgments, it would seem that yours is based in Academia or from a Corporate-Culture where cost and equipment is no object. Lovely - but that is not the case here, where expediency and practicality often dictate that more can be accomplished with a handful of replication attempts costing a few hundred $ each- than with the extraordinary expense of whizz-bang 1000X probes to see what's going on without scaring away the genie doing the work (as a colleague has opined) -- maybe a P6015a, 100M impedence, 3 pF capacitance, 75 MHz bandwidth (shabby bandwidth but enough for this application). Darn things are kind of expensive, unfortunately: http://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/pdfs/TEK_P6015A,P5100,P5102,P5120.pdf
Wish Ron and the rest of us had the luxury of that step first - but in point of fact a totally self-powering device is even more impressive than meter readings that someone will always quibble over anyway - even if requires more hands-on work and repetitive disappointment than what "should be" the case in a perfect world of adequate funding... and even if this one, like most of the rest - does not pan out. About the only hope for a major contribution from those of us without Corportate, National Lab or Acedemic sponsorship is to ferret out that one-in-a-million anomaly which they stumble on - hopefully a crack in the LoT - and pursue that with a vengeance- and with the help of other hands-on types who are similarly inspired.
Given the urgency of the energy crisis, I see no other hope but to pursue every "decent" lead and every reported anomaly- even if 999,9999 out of a million do not pan out. This one appears to be on the upper-end of that 'decency' range, as of now - your (imaginary?) high-current SigGens notwithstanding...
Jones
If we stop looking at the trees and look at the forest for a moment, there is not enough current to saturate that huge chunk of core mass in the slightest. Ron states it won't work without the core and there is only one wire off the secondary to boot. Where is the 25ma of induction?
Well, the video was pretty cool, but now that we have the schematic and parts list, it's easy to see that the circuit is powered by the signal generator. It's capacitively coupled through C2, bypassing the 10K resistor, and then through the input capacitance of the 2N7000 MOSFET, which is quite high.
R2 keeps the gate-to-source voltage around zero, and the data sheet for that MOSFET (http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/vishay/70226.pdf, for example) shows that the added 1V p-p signal from the signal generator is not enough to make it conduct at all, so capacitive coupling to B4 and L1 is its only function.
The inductances, C1, and other capacitances form a resonant circuit through which the signal generator drives the step-up transformer formed by L2 and L3.
L3 transmits the power to the LED at high voltage through one wire, which is pretty cool, and the D1+D2+D3 circuit picks it up. I'm not able to analyze this part very well, but I'd guess that it uses the stray capacitiances beween the parts of the breadboard that Dr. Stiffler has already mentioned.
All in all, this circuit is pretty wierd. I wonder why anyone would build such a thing?
Cheers,
Mr. Entropy
My definition of cold electricity:
It is when your 10 Watt 1 ohm resistor, wired in series to the test circuit gets noticeably cooler than it should be. You freak out and check it with your IR thermometer and it shows much cooler than the bench area - even though it has been setting there all day and it is carrying current. Then you give up and have a cool one to clean the wild thoughts from your head. (Notice I didn't say 'another cool one'.)
After clarity arrives you decide to keep it to yourself because you are still bruised from the last time you made something like that public for replication.
Just my opinion.
If this type of circuit really does involve so-called "cold electricity" then why would you Fritz (Wolfgang), or anyone else expect a "conventional" meter or scope to give an accurate representation of what is happening?
Of course, even if cold electricity does not exist, the idea of a SigGen heating a resistor to such a degree is laughable.
Jones
As far as posting very little experimental detail - why should I bother repeating something I did 20+ years ago? If you don't believe something said then either ignore it or prove/disprove it to yourself.
the B and the P in BEP stands for something you wouldn't understand and most likley wouldn't believe. As in callsigns - BEP was a substation of a network. The B stood for Berlin............
Self-power or earth power?
...or Dr. Stiffler's magnetic personality?
Hey folks - he is being a little cute here, but if it
has not dawned on you yet- this is the most important
video on free energy that any "earthling" has ever witnessed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdJm9QCVJHY
Self-power or earth power?
Someone better call an ambulance for Fritz - he looks quite ill and
possibly has choked on something ;-)
Hey fritz - Is there really such thing as a "proper" board in the search for something that classic EM can not produce or explain such a sOU? EDIT Does cold electricity and regular electricity work the same? Do they have the same current level? Etc.Work things out:
Different metals exhibit different electron affinities. I think we should replicate what is being displayed and not tell Ron what to do. Otherwise, that comes across as being a bit egocentric.
You can order some cores and put it on a "proper" board and tell us how it works.
One more thought...
Dr. Ron Stiffler is not some made up user name like fritz, BEB, SPEW or even mine. He is a real person, has a real web site, has a real lab and has a real reputation.
If you are going to suggest that a real person is a fraud, you should be willing to to use your real name to do it in this public forum.
I was going to redraw that schematic and include a parts/source list and get everything compiled into one document or zip file for people since this thread is getting long.Freenrg4me
Fritz, you missed my point again and so this is probably pointless but I will try one more time because I value you.
When you use the word "proper", you are suggesting that he is improper.
If you want a proper circuit, go buy a LED flashlight. Until then, stop suggesting to Ron what he should be doing or speaking to/about him in a condescending way. That is one of the reasons he does not come here. We wish he would come here or somewhere but I don't blame him.
Just stop. O.K.?
I plan to give them as Christmas gifts to the kids I know in an effort inspire them to search and discover things on their own during their lives so they don't grow up to be like... Well, enjoy your trip to the moon.
Besides, most people are so inverted, if it is true, they think it is a lie, black is white, up is down. Most people (Americans) have been so chemically (...)
@Freenrg4me
I believe the idea here is not to play games or teach "students" new things through puzzles. If those of us with 1/4 of a brain have to figure out how to positively replicate this instead of a straight forward put this here and there, then it leads me to believe good old doc has purposely obscured it.
Oh, and you forgot to add Fluoride as a neurotoxin in water that keeps people docile. It worked for Stalin to keep his prison population at bay, and it surely works on most Americans as well :D
I believe I have the right core, and it did come from the old alarm clock. It looks just like the ones on eBay, yet I am still unable to light even one LED. Perhaps my psi powers are not as strong as doc stifflers? ;)
JUST A HARMLESS JOKE, NO HARM. Lets put those weapons down, I think we have established that stifler is no fake.
But trust me pal, nothing I create that is original will be thrown to the swine that swims here and that is the same reason Stiffler does not, just to clear up your last line...
But here are the facts. Doc Stiffler did not clearly describe how to replicate his experiment, instead he video it as a tease if we are to decide by the audio commentary.
Did you watch all 7 videos? In each video the circuit is clearly shown on video, he has released 3 schematics, a complete parts list and in many of the videos, he takes you step by step through the circuit. Are you insane or a complete idiot?But here are the facts. Doc Stiffler did not clearly describe how to replicate his experiment, instead he video it as a tease if we are to decide by the audio commentary.
If we are basing the results off of the barium ferrite core resonanting at a frequency of 10Mhz, then why is it a linear growth on the graph, with no decernable change in characteristics floating around the 10Mhz resonant point?
If we are basing the results off of the barium ferrite core resonanting at a frequency of 10Mhz, then why is it a linear growth on the graph, with no decernable change in characteristics floating around the 10Mhz resonant point?
It's because there's nothing in the core that resonates around 10MHz. That 10MHz figure you have is for nuclear magentic resonance imaging. At the atomic level, that means:
- You apply an enormous magnetic field.
- Like a clock spring attached to a flywheel, the magnetic field keeps the atoms aligned in a particular direction.
- If you disturb the alignment, they'll oscillate back and forth at some frequency, again like the flywheel+spring.
- If disturb them with an oscillating force at that frequency, they'll resonate and their oscillations will grow (relatively) large.
Now, in exactly the same way that the resonant frequency of a wheel+spring depends on the strength of the spring, the resonant frequency of an atom in NMR depends on the strength of the magnetic field.
That is why the figures were quoted relative to H at 100MHz. It means that if you apply a magnetic field of the strength that makes H resonate at 100MHz, then barium will resonate at 10MHz.
If you don't apply an enormous magnetic field at all, you don't have any of this kind of nuclear resonance at all.
Cheers,
Mr. Entropy
@fritzEven if you see no ground here on the schematic of part2, there is straight
so you are saying that we have an impedance matching issue? if thats the case here is one to consider,
does the impedance of the plug affect the driving circuit? (excluding the generator)
Hi fritz!
Hey nice but where you built Stifler circuit? So what you mix good fruit with bad?
The self resonant frequency of an AM ferrite antenna is around 10MHz.
(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
rgds.
The self resonant frequency of an AM ferrite antenna is around 10MHz.
Hi Fritz, have you measured that to be around 10MHz or you judged? If you only judged, I would say you are probably correct if you remove the ferrite rod from the coil and refer to the self-resonant frequency of the now air core coil, right?.
Because the high permeability of the ferrite core would still dominate the inductance of the coil at 10MHz (even though the permeability certainly gets reduced with increasing frequency) so the presence of the core would not let such a high self resonant frequency. Do you agree?
My understanding is an AM ferrite antenna coil has approximatly 600-700uH of self inductance around 0.5-1MHz. Suppose it still has about 70uH inductance left at 10MHz, right? This 70uH needs about 1.5pF (distributed and parasitic capacitance) to resonate at 10MHz, right? And the AM coil on the ferrite rod surely has higher than 1.5pF distributed cap due to the many turns of wire, this surely has to lower the self resonance frequency of the ferrite antenna well below 10MHz.
(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
rgds.
Man on a wire ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcalasGr_uk
I measured (my) coil with LCR meter at 1kHz - has about 400uH - but it
has less winding than the "original".
To measure the self resonance frequency - I operated the primary coil (9 turns)
with my siggen from 1-20MHz.
I connected the tip of my osc probe to one end of the AM coil. (....)
There are regularly resonances with 120% nominal amplitude every 1.5Mhz (est.)
and a 300% resonance overshoot around 10MHz.
I agree with your estimates for the values at 10 Mhz - to measure this exactly - I
have to repair my other LC meter which is capable of measuring even with 10MHz
frequency ...
Could someone teach me about charge/discharge speed of a capacitor?
I measured (my) coil with LCR meter at 1kHz - has about 400uH - but it
has less winding than the "original".
To measure the self resonance frequency - I operated the primary coil (9 turns)
with my siggen from 1-20MHz.
I connected the tip of my osc probe to one end of the AM coil. (....)
There are regularly resonances with 120% nominal amplitude every 1.5Mhz (est.)
and a 300% resonance overshoot around 10MHz.
I agree with your estimates for the values at 10 Mhz - to measure this exactly - I
have to repair my other LC meter which is capable of measuring even with 10MHz
frequency ...
Hi Fritz, ok, thanks for your answer, I understand and agree most but please consider the oscilloscope probe has got a 13-15pF loading capacitance in parallel with its 10MegaOhm input resistance and that self capacitance significantly detunes the ferrite rod coil, right? The best way to measure the self resonance frequency would be to use a Grid Dip Meter (GDO for short) you surely know this calibrated LC oscillator that shows energy transfer to a passive tank circuit when it is near or at the resonant frequency of the passive tank.
Thanks, Gyula
(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
rgds.
Man on a wire ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcalasGr_uk
This man is wearing feather-alike clothes, the wire is not that with
the real high voltage (look at the insulators).
I wont do that naked ;-)))
rgds.
@ Fritz - Hey in one of the pictures with the crowbar (When I expand it to full size) where you are holding the LEDS, I noticed that the primary is not connected at either end but the signal is going through the secondary to the LEDS in your fingers. How is that a replication of the Stiffler circuit since Stiffler has an open end on one coil? Are you just trying to show that you can hold an LED and get it to light by touching the right power source and your body being a good impedance match? You mentioned the importance of impedance matching - Just curious.
Also, that ebay site sells variable capacitors - do you think that would be helpful in tuning? Stiffler used a silver dipped mica cap. Do caps have reactance speeds?
The reason I ask is in the Meyer circuit, US patent 4798661, Meyer describes what looks like an air plate capacitor submerged in distilled water. Now why would someone go though the hassle of creating that if a simple off the shelf capacitor will work? Could someone teach me about charge/discharge speed of a capacitor?
Sure electricity goes through water quite fast but the charge or bond angle change is about 1mm per second. I am trying to take what I learn from this in regards to distributive capacitance on a transmission line and apply it to Meyer circuit since I keep seeing and hearing similar terms.
Glad to see this forum go back to the CE circuit too.
(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
rgds.
Man on a wire ???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcalasGr_uk
This man is wearing feather-alike clothes, the wire is not that with
the real high voltage (look at the insulators).
I wont do that naked ;-)))
rgds.
Feather-like clothes lower the human body's capacitance? This thread is really bringing out the (bird) brains, I guess. Maybe Dr. Stiffler is wearing special feather-unlike-clothes? I've heard some non-scientific arguments in my day, but this one is close to taking the cake!
Linda
I figured it out! I figured it out! Nener nener nener! and two of Stifflers own scope shots prove it! Ha! Take that you dogs!
Email me Fritz, you were the closest of all of them. Keep it to yourself, feed these "bird brains" nothing. If you can't keep it to yourself, don't email me.
Ha! You lose trolls!
I exposed her private detective buddy in another thread. It took me two days to get him so unglued he told me enough to to determine exactly who he is, where he lives and his phone number. It's posted.
God I'm going to miss this placeQuote[
quote]Now I must find that unsubscribe button. Hey Harmann, delete my account. I though with itQuoteIt's been fun Nazis!QuoteFinal thoughtQuoteThat's my answer and my final rantQuoteI'll start with me. Best of luck to all of you.
C-yaQuoteI am out of here - good luck.
All above quotes from Freenrg4me. Why isn't he leaving already then? He should so we can go back to O.U. research without the stupid remarks and threats of his leaving. Leave already. Don't say it...do it.
Bill
Stephan,
I have no interest in building something radioactive now that I figured out how it works. I stayed around to clear that up for some of the less intelligent people that may try to replicate.
However, after reading Bills last few posts, I must ask myself the question why did he suddenly pop in here and why would I care if he built something that can harm him. :-)
Bill, if you promise to build all 60 of them and sleep with them, I will ship them to you for free. :-)
Itis not radioactive !
Otherwise how would every AM radio otherwise function ?
Please stop hammering onto Dr. Stiffler and start building
or sell me a few cores.
Otherwise, please shut up over here.
Wonderful!
I have a replication, I would like to throw on the table, but am going to be out of town for a bit.
LET THE REPLICATIONS BEGIN!
@Freenrg4me
Even if radioactivity is involved in this, that would not deter me. I would learn how to handle that. I am sure lots of other people are not put off either. I remember a guy who left the hydroxy group when he discovered hydrogen can explode! As for patenting a free energy device, look at the history, You can not sell it. I can remind you of Stanly Meyer.
Before understanding as the device works understanding as make it work to the best, according to the Stiffler indications is necessary.
Has Stiffler thought it would mount the device on a printed circuit or "in air" ? To verify if the hrdware used by him is binding or they can there be an alternative constructive solutions.
I would like to ask also a question to Stiffler:
the producer and the code of the components, especially coils and block of ferrite, so that it can do some tests.
DR. Stifler
By your estimate, how many turns would you say the primary has on AM antennae?
@RStiffler
Have you ever tried your circuit out of your lab, may be somewhere a few miles away?
I for one am looking for overunity but I don't want fall over myself.
With the two transmitters in the vicinity of your lab some related weird phenomena may be at play.
Although in your videos you shielded the circuit and disproved RF pick up, still there is an area of doubt
which should be removed.
Best Regards
Unfortunately the link on ebay which you have sent me is not active:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPT.dll?ViewItem&item=150076605464 They were $1.45US at the time.
The information on your web site are really complete and is possible to replay your experiments.
The biggest problem, for me, is to obtain the loop sticks aerial. I think that the best thing is to know the diameter of the thread and then the number of coils, trying the building.
I Know that reduce the possibility of success, but I do not know thing other do.
Is it possible to use a red LED to replace the blu LED ?
I just made a few tests with this principle circuitStefan;
and made it much simpler.
You just need a ferrite choke , a signal generator and 3 blue or
white LEDs and a big metal mesh.
You can use the 3 LEDs to build the Avramenko plug,so you don?t need
the 2 x 1N4148 diodes.
This has the advantage, that the current through the 2 Avramenko rectifier diodes
also puts out light.
The whole thing is a resonance effect and probably a parasitric capacitive coupling to
the signal generator ground.
But with the right ferrite choke you can enhance the effect.
I have recorded a video and will try to upload it now here or
at youtube.
It is pretty long, so I guess I better put it to youtube.
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan;
So if you are using only LEDS are they all polarized in the same direction? Or is it a standard 'Plug' design and you have reversed one LED and it does not light? Don't the rectifiers on the plug take on the form of a full wave rectifier?
Waiting for the video.. Glad to see someone working on it.
The video & sound are working
Thank you
@Stefan,
Can't watch the video at you tube as of 27/10/2007 3.17 a.m.
???
Downloaded from megaupload - thanks
Hihi,
that was a good one with the Geiger counter ! ;) ;D
What frequency are you running it amigo ?
Do you have to tune it for the right frequency, so the LED
lights up this bright ?
Many thanks for this video.
Regards, Stefan.
I tried measuring current but am not sure if my equipment is sensitive enough. Fluke scope shows 0.4mV across the 1ohm resistor, as described by doc.stiffler in Fig.09, but I do not know if that's real or not.
My God, what is that guy's problem, he seemed intelligent and knowledgeable from posts I read in the past. What a shame that he has these severe paranoid thoughts that the world is after him to get him. :(
Haven't I written that it was my first attempt in replicating, never claimed it was THE replication, just an attempt. My signal generator is built around MAX038 which is up to 20MHz capable chip, where does he get 10, maybe because I said the coil tuned at ~10. And it's a bastardized version of a signal generator, yet it works so it's a proof of concept.
The output of the MAX038 chip is routed through a 50ohm resistor to the 390pf mica cap which is part of the main circuit. I don't have any op amps after the chip to amplify the signal. The output signal is about 800mVp-p according to my Fluke 124 scope and it seems to be pretty noisy. I should really make at least a better output stage with higher p-p.
0.4mV measured was across the 1ohm resistor between the signal generator and 390pf mica cap, so basically before the ferrite core or the choke actually. So I guess it's 0.4mA current if we are to believe Ampere law. :)
I am not sure what mcd rating my white LEDs are, but they are not the brightest you can get nowadays. It's what I had handy...
@stefan
Thanks !
That's what I first tried, and it made it brighter, but I noticed I do not get any change now that I have the Al foil underneath it...
@RStiffler,@amigo
Thanks for the support and the guidance, I will go and re-read the entire page again because there were updates in the mean time while I was working on this.
I did make sure that my secondary coil is wound in the same direction as the primary. That was the problem with my first attempt week ago until I read on your page that they have to match directions.
I have switched now to a full breadboard with the metal backing and only placed your circuit on it, while keeping the signal generator on the smaller board. Sadly now my LED barely lights up, though the frequency is about the same ~10.7MHz. If I touch the gnd (-) on my signal generator board the LED lights up brighter but that's not what we are looking for. :)
I feel I'm back to square one now since the LED is barely illuminated (hard to see) and my signal generator does not seem to be working as one would hope. You are right that one needs a good instrument for things like this, but...
Perhaps if you have time, could you please consider posting on your page a simple tunable LC oscillator that everyone can build. That way we will all be on the same "page" when it comes to sources of the signal?
Regarding the video, I did not like the lo-res quality of YouTube thus I made my video at 480x360 so that details are clear. :)
Do you know if litz wire is absolute necessity on the coil or could we wind a similar full copper primary instead though I suppose all this has to do with capacitance, no? Would be great if we did not have to special order coils, since I have found a bunch of cores in a local surplus store, but without the coils on them and would like to wind my own if possible.
@hartiberlin
I must say that the margin of error is very narrow here when it comes to frequency control and it is necessary to strike the right one to get the best results. An oscillator with fine tuning (down to KHz or better) would come very very handy. I'm also interested in the no generator ground only experiment because there was no tuning involved there, it appeared to simply just work on its own. :)
@terry1094
I do not how many windings are on the primary, I just used the existing ferrite core I pulled out of an old alarm clock with radio. The geometry matched so I figured I got nothing to lose by trying it. :)
Hi Ron,@Stefan
is it okay to just use a sinewave with around 10 Mhz or do we need
a square wave at this frequency to excite the cores ?
As you show a sine frequency on your scopeshots, I guess
you used also your singal generator on sine function, right ?
Please try to find out what resonancefrequency works best
and what the ferrite core with the 2 coils around
it has for its own resonance frequency and how high the Q is.
We really have to nail down the parameters to see, how we
best extract the energy.
At least we have here a first circuit that runs
without any power input and puts out already a few hundred
milliwatts of power for free !
So to scale this up we need to find the right parameters.
Many thanks in advance..
Regards, Stefan.
I do not believe there is one single resonant frequency that we can nail this down to. Every coil is different and so with each one it will require some specific tunning. That's what the last circuit on the experiment page is about, it's a fine tuned oscillator but only for the core doc has with him. Our cores would probably be slightly different, depending on other components as well. But this is just my half-educated guess :)
@ Stefan:
I have followed this topic for a while now and I have a question. You guys are all much better versed in electronics than I am. I have a basic, working knowledge, but that's about it. This circuit, you said, is putting out electricity as evidenced by the three LEDs illuminated in your video, without power input. When you adjusted the frequency dial on a piece of your equipment I saw the LEDs get brighter, then dimmer. Excuse my ignorance but, the piece of equipment you were adjusting was plugged in to the grid, correct? I assume this was just adjusting the frequency as you said in the video (which I enjoyed by the way as I said in an earlier post) but, is there no "energy" passed from that device to the circuit? I guess I am thinking of it like a radio tuner/amplifier that adjusts the frequencies of the broadcasts and amplifies. Of course, there are just receivers that do not amplify but, I am just wondering if any energy is entering the circuit from that device?
Also, you stated the frequency that showed the best result as you tuned several times, would it be possible to design a circuit that resonates at this particular frequency such that, you would not need that piece of equipment?
As I said, please forgive my ignorance as to you guys that know, I probably sound like an idiot. But, at least I know what I know, and I am not afraid to admit when I don't. Thanks.
By the way.....good decision on the ban. (my opinion.)
Bill
P.S. Before I am continueing with this circuit concept,
I still have to get a better frequency generator and also need
these special litz wire coils and cores.
I really want to replicate the exact setup as Ron has built it
or very simular at least.
This will need a few days.
You can use sine or square wave as the driving signal, sine does not produce the same number (less) resonant points as the square wave. In some coils if you use sine you may never obtain the high voltage as indicated by the neon.
What Stefan has is very similar to what is called a Bucking Driver for LEDS where the inductance aids in powering the LEDS when the field collapses from the signal gen. as it moves through a complete cycle. If you look under LED Drivers on the internet and look at the bucking systems it may help in understand. A Red LED for example can put out a dim light if a person stands insulated and touches one end to a large mass. In this case it is being excited by ambient 60hz or 50hz.
Hi Ron,
another question:
What happens, when you shortout the coil L1
in the Fig: 14 - Circuit #7 Diagram ?
Will the LEDs still light up with just a ground wire and using
no signal generator ?
2. What will happen,
if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
Fig: 26
Will you still get these high voltages, that can light neon bulbs
at the core-coils ?
At around 2 Mhz my Avramenkp plug diode also lighted up
without my ground (metal-mesh) wire, but I never got the high voltages
yet at the coils of my ferrite transformer.
Probably I could have got them only around 10 to 20 Mhz.
>2. What will happen,
>if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
>Fig: 26
The LED is a bit dimmer. The cap is not forming a series resonant tank.
Hi Ron,
will figure 22
with the picture:
(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7dblwingcir.gif)
still light up all the LEDs,
if you shortout L1
and use your faraday cage around it and
just have a ground wire going to it there at L2 ?Quote>2. What will happen,
>if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
>Fig: 26
The LED is a bit dimmer. The cap is not forming a series resonant tank.
So it seems it is just the coil-core resonance
which are doing these effects, not the
external caps together with the coils.
I will build myself a square wave generator up to around 20 Mhz
and see where the resonances are with my ferrite transformer
and a few other ferrite cores I still have laying around.
Regards, Stefan.
So the signal generator
was always running in the background ?
Also in this figure 14 case ?
(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7cir01.gif)
What did energize the coil-core combination then ?
Just some 60 Hz "noise" from the ground wire ?
Rstiffler said both these quotes on this thread ... Stefan wasn't off base at all for asking that question about the ground noise and single wire conductorIf you want to say something, say it, why extend the thread by some form of insinuation?
Getting somewhat concerned about what you do not understand, or do not want to. Where in this diagram do you see a parasitic plate or a signal generator.
Please stop trying to change or put works in my mouth because I will not just jump to the end.
4) The Al plate does not worth the same as mass does in Stefans example. When using a proto-board with the backing Al plate it need not concern you until you wish to use it as a parasitic amplifier, in which case you would drive the circuit by applying your signal to the outer most plate.
??? ??? ??? ???
@RStifflerWell we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.
Those were very constructive remarks in your previous post and I will take them seriously. I know my L1 is not correct - I am struggling here with what I have. :)
Right now I do not have access to a good LCR meter (perhaps you could suggest one to me please?) The Mastech DMM I have has LC option but it is pretty crude and does not measure down to uH as I would like to.
I saw some on eBay but not sure if they are any good: for example this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PROFESSIONAL-10KHZ-HANDHELD-DIGITAL-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190167757680QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-NEW-10KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190166121744QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).
As far as taking the conversation private, if you do not mind, could we keep it in here? I feel that my limited success so far will encourage others to start experimenting and reporting their findings here. This thread is already a solid repository of knowledge about this subject with many excellent remarks made by you and the others, so anyone else interested can easily refer to it, beside going to your web page.
I'm off to watch your latest video now and then to see if I can make a new better L1...
Thank You.
Well we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.
Build, explore and then understand. If all we do here is want the end first and harp on RF or local transmitters then move on to one of you more productive technologies.
Sorry for the rant.
Meters yes, but anything good costs bucks, so I don't want to be put in that position, that would be a personal decision.
@RStifflerWell we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.
Those were very constructive remarks in your previous post and I will take them seriously. I know my L1 is not correct - I am struggling here with what I have. :)
Right now I do not have access to a good LCR meter (perhaps you could suggest one to me please?) The Mastech DMM I have has LC option but it is pretty crude and does not measure down to uH as I would like to.
I saw some on eBay but not sure if they are any good: for example this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PROFESSIONAL-10KHZ-HANDHELD-DIGITAL-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190167757680QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-NEW-10KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190166121744QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).
As far as taking the conversation private, if you do not mind, could we keep it in here? I feel that my limited success so far will encourage others to start experimenting and reporting their findings here. This thread is already a solid repository of knowledge about this subject with many excellent remarks made by you and the others, so anyone else interested can easily refer to it, beside going to your web page.
I'm off to watch your latest video now and then to see if I can make a new better L1...
Thank You.
Build, explore and then understand. If all we do here is want the end first and harp on RF or local transmitters then move on to one of you more productive technologies.
Hi Dr. Stiffler,
I was told about your work today. I have been remiss on keeping an eye on Overunity.com lately. Downloaded the base article from your home site and digested it. Built it up (the simple circuit somewhat modified) and it works as advertised. I believe this is the same device as shown on YouTube.
As I didn?t have the specified coil/core, I used a Ferrite magnet from a Bedini bicycle wheel motor, wound 300T #32 secondary, 50T primary. I have no idea if this is optimal or not. 1N914's feeding 10uf, LED in series with iron core MA meter across cap. I left both other ends of primary and secondary floating. NO measurable DC current in input side of circuit. I don't have an RF Ma meter to check the RF current but from other test, it would appear to be very low. The circuit is excited via a small coil/470 pf in series from my HP-3312A sig. generator using only + output set to as high PP output possible and from there to the Ferrite coil. Output around 27 ma @ 6MHz, second and third peak @ 8 and 10Mhz. Output is 30% higher using square waves. Have tried every method of grounding, base plate, output, input, generator, etc. All end up with degraded output. I even put two diodes back to back in series with the input and it still works...a 50ua meter in the input shows no input current. I realize we are working with RF here but this is something new. I will say that the most simplified circuit is the 2-1N914's/cap LED circuit connected directly to +++ lead of the generator but only 6-7 ma that way peak and I suspect the base current without the ferrite effect.
This is most interesting work and I want to say thanks for taking the time to show it to us. I also enjoyed the other research on your site.
Ben K4ZEP
Newbie here. My first post. I have been reading this one project since the beginning. I have tried a variation of Dr's project and and up with something absolutely ultra simple. No other components but LEDs, all sort of colors and sizes and different specs. About 50+. All fully bright.
I use only a bread-board, function generator set to around 9Mhz. Only positive probe connected to circuit. No resistors, no transistors, no coils, nothing. One ground wire to neutral of house-power. Function generator powered by house or battery 12v with 300w inverter so that I could make sure there is no connection of the house ground with the probe.
I will post pics and video if anyone is interested. This was very surprising for me since I was looking to replicate this project and start very small and as I was doing I was simplifying even more to the point that only the function gen and LEDs are enough.
Measure power in = 0 current ma. Power draining to ground around 100ma 4+v. Some of the LEDs are in series and some in parallel. Very interesting indeed.
Fausto.
I havenow got myself a few 74AC14 hex Schmitt trigger ICs that can go up to over 20Mhz
in a simple square wave oscillator and also found an old radio I can rip apart.
Hi Stefan,
Not sure exactly how to use this site, bit rusty. Here is a photo of my first try at this. I'm attaching a photo, learning here. 15 LED's, show about 27V @ 3 ma in the circuit. Note red and black lead at top, that is from sig. gen. Notice only red lead connected. No ground anywhere in circuit. It is pretty well what the Good Doctor specified.
Ben
Hi Ben,
many thanks for the pictures.
Looks great and also the new picture from Ron.
Ben, what, if you just use 2 LEDs instead of the 1N914 diodes ?
Does it also work for you as it did for me ?
What, if you just drive the ferrite "transformer" directly without the
choke and cap before it ?
What frequency works best for you ?It totally depends on the resonance of the circuit, my circuit using the coil/cap that I had in my junk box resonates @ around 5.3 Mhz. I also get considerably more output using a square wave rather than a sine wave but both work. I realize my homemade "ferrite" transformer is an abomination (forgive me Dr. Stiffler) but AM ferrite coils ordered off Ebay have not arrived and will not arrive for a few days so make do with what I have)
Hi Stefan,
Not sure exactly how to use this site, bit rusty. Here is a photo of my first try at this. I'm attaching a photo, learning here. 15 LED's, show about 27V @ 3 ma in the circuit. Note red and black lead at top, that is from sig. gen. Notice only red lead connected. No ground anywhere in circuit. It is pretty well what the Good Doctor specified.
Ben
Hi Ben,
very nice, but have you tried this without the ground lead from the signal generator being so close to the board and to the main red lead?
In my experiments I have noticed that they can interfere with each other and produce anomalous unwanted effects which are not indicative of the true state of the circuit, or it's intended operation.
I just moved it to a woden chair 3 feet from the signal generator and am feeding it with two 2' clip leads in series, (see photo) works the same. Had to tweek the frequency a few Khz.
There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.
Ben
Just wondering...
@Ben
Great work. It looks like you have the free ends of the coils plugged into connector strips. You might want to pull them out and let then float. The capacity between then thru the board will kill some of your power. Holding a neon on the secondary while tuning thru the freq. range will show you the HV point.
Normally the more leds you use the better it likes it and allows the voltage to climb across the coil.
Darn, I almost missed and your post, went back up to get better idea what is going on. Your suggestion to let the ends float. Just pulled them out after the last picture I posted, retuned, considerably more output!!!!! The impedance in that front end is HIGH! You are also correct on the more LED's in series, the more the better! My junk box only had red ones! I look forward to your Video #9!!!!!
Thanks
Ben
I just moved it to a woden chair 3 feet from the signal generator and am feeding it with two 2' clip leads in series, (see photo) works the same. Had to tweek the frequency a few Khz.
There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.
There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.
Actually it is capacitive coupling between you and me and the front end of the circuit, detunes it as we move around, I'm sure Dr. Stifflier could be much more specific in addressing this problem.....Probably need decoupling chokes in the circuit or shielding......although this is about as simple as you can get.
Ben
Actually it is capacitive coupling between you and me and the front end of the circuit, detunes it as we move around, I'm sure Dr. Stifflier could be much more specific in addressing this problem.....Probably need decoupling chokes in the circuit or shielding......although this is about as simple as you can get.
Ben
I did notice that happening and it was irking me because my crummy make-shift function generator is not good, so every time I'd adjust the resonant frequency the circuit would go out of resonance when I moved my hand away from the board.
Although my comment was related to more aetheric matters :D
Amigo,
do you use any blocking caps on the power supply lines ?
Use a few 100 nF caps and also a 100 uF cap on the power supply
lines at your circuit, so the power supply voltage stays stable.
This will help to avoid the frequency to get detuned.
This is very important with RF circuits.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,
Actually, I am knowingly using Gel and standard batteries so these kinds of problems shouldn't occur, no?
Thanks.
I will build up a 74HC14 oscillator which can go up to 20 Mhz with
square waves.
Hi Fausto, Maybe your function generator ground is actually connected to earth through the chassis and plug of the generator. If this is the case then you have actually provided the second function generator connection in a roundabout way via your earth lead. If you measure the resistance between the mains earth pin and the function generator ground with an ohmmeter you may find a direct connection. Even if there is no DC connection (measured with your meter) there may be a capacitive connection which would do the same job at RFHello rickMave. No there is absolutely no connection between the func gen and the ground or anywhere. On the youtube video i am using the house power BUT I also tried with the func gen being fed by a battery via an inverter which makes the whole thing an isolated circuit. Besides if I connect the other probe to the ground cable and and not use the ground the LEDs will not light. The one wire with the high frequency and the ground is the secret. In another variation of this designed I used a coil and no ground connection to achieve the same effect (LEDs lighthing up) and It showed some RF interference in my other equipments.
Now Ron?s new video is online and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE
Of course I'll disconnect the ground. It's only there to T off certain people that are look for shells to hide under. Thought it was time to do some feedback as they have nothing better to do.Now Ron?s new video is online and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE
Ron has a sense of humor......waiting for #10 now......talk about a clifhanger! How about disconnecting the battery AND the ground?
Yes, Ron?s humour makes me very exciting now ! ;) ;D
What about disconnecting the battery and the ground wire and
put all the circuit again in the alu pan and just only watch through the
hole again, if the circuit still runs ?
This would be the definate answer, that there is no
power coming in via the 50KWatts AM radio station not too far away...
Of course I'll disconnect the ground. It's only there to T off certain people that are look for shells to hide under. Thought it was time to do some feedback as they have nothing better to do.Now Ron?s new video is on line and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE
Ron has a sense of humor......waiting for #10 now......talk about a cliffhanger! How about disconnecting the battery AND the ground?
Dr. Stiffler has done an experiment with all the device inside a metal container, it was clear that the LED was remaining on ...Is this true? The video I saw with the circuit in a metal container was not all inside - it had a lead coming out of it and going to earth. None of his circuits seem to be able to work without some similar sort of "earth" or aerial. We know from Dr Stifflers measurement on circuit #7 in figure 15 and 16 that there may be ~200mA RF flowing in that earth lead. That would be enough to light ~20 LEDs in parallel (10 pointing one way and 10 the other) if there was enough voltage also on the lead. So maybe the circuit #7 would light an additional 20 LEDs wired in this earth lead! Unfortunately Dr Stiffler did not see fit to look for a voltage there.
I sure hope he keeps on with this at least on his home site and YouTube anyway. I have this weird suspicion that the whole device in Circuit 7, Fig. 15, 16 is acting as sort of a top loaded antenna reference to ground and somehow, the LEDs and coils are a form of Osc. if you read all he has to say about that circuit!, Just look at the scope shot, the damn thing is burst oscillating. I also suspect if you added a 3rd coil set same as L1/L2 at the top of the schematic and fed it in reverse with a simple long wire broadband antenna, output would be shall we say LARGE? I have also seen the circuit before on a crazy Texans site who said he generated Kw's of energy from an outside antenna referenced to ground! He didn't have a clue as to how it worked, just said it did.......at the time I thought he was nuts. I also read an article several years ago about an "energy sucking antenna", I think this circuit and its brothers are basically this! More "Power" to this type of circuit........What a Pun!Dr. Stiffler has done an experiment with all the device inside a metal container, it was clear that the LED was remaining on ...Is this true? The video I saw with the circuit in a metal container was not all inside - it had a lead coming out of it and going to earth. None of his circuits seem to be able to work without some similar sort of "earth" or aerial. We know from Dr Stifflers measurement on circuit #7 in figure 15 and 16 that there may be ~200mA RF flowing in that earth lead. That would be enough to light ~20 LEDs in parallel (10 pointing one way and 10 the other) if there was enough voltage also on the lead. So maybe the circuit #7 would light an additional 20 LEDs wired in this earth lead! Unfortunately Dr Stiffler did not see fit to look for a voltage there.
If only he could provide this measurement (as I requested earlier) then we could know what power flow this current represents. But maybe that is part of the tease to get others experimenting.
Maybe even he himself doesn't want the answer to that question - it might be very discouraging to find that all the power was flowing in from outside. But I think that such a strange effect would be just as interesting to investigate and probably just as useful from a power generation point of view. Who cares where the power is coming from as long as it is easy and free!
Such an easy measurement, and so useful an answer. How sad that he is gone now.
@all
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm
Since the beginning of the Stiffler experiment I have thought to a similitude between this experiment with Avramenko experiment. This similitude can help us to reflect on the characteristics of the experiment and the better one road to reproduce and optimize it.
...
3. How for the wires which transports the current in the Avramenko experiment, the L2 thickness is extremely thin and is theoretically not sufficient for the current necessary to power 50 LEDs (50 * 20 mA = 1 A).
But maybe is not RF!? Stiffler always states that.
if it sucks energy from RF the MIBs come to your house an switch of the magic lights very soon. They can measure it without coming in your house (when above hundreds of Watts or so - living such nearby makes people sick). Less RF-power decelerates signal strength of the station resulting in poorer radio quality. But maybe it is not RF!? Stiffler always states that. So then what is it? I cannot see what prevents it consuming power somehow from the supply or signalgenerator-supply!!! I think its possible, that a stimulated core can produce energy. In this case: Until it is not running completely disconnected by its own, i beleave nothing - but hope the best.
one has to remember that the overall power is maybe at 0.8-1W. This is a fact, which is clearly achievable using one wire, conventional electric theory.
Ron
With 28 posts you have made it to Elite member. I think Stefan is sorry!
Has anyone seen the postings on Vortex where I am now referred to as a Con-Artist?
Has anyone seen the postings on Vortex where I am now referred to as a Con-Artist?
I think people are saying they are suspicious because you get ticked off when people mention that this or that mundane explanation may account for the power.
Maybe you just have a short fuse when criticized, but you can't blame them. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
I hope you will keep right on going with this. I'm looking forward to what the solar panel will produce.
@All
Let me post some worst case figures for you to look over. My single coil, driven by a Colpitts Oscillator drawing 5mA into an impedance converter drawing 20mA from 12 volts.
12 x 2.5E-2 = 0.300 or 300 mW input.
Driving 75 LEDS in series with a forward drop each of 3.2 -3.8 volts with 4mA in the series chain. Lets use the low forward drop;
75 x 3.2 = 240 volts therefore 240 x 4E-3 = 0.960 or 960 mW
Do you all understand? and this is worst case.
if it sucks energy from RF the MIBs come to your house an switch of the magic lights very soon. They can measure it without coming in your house (when above hundreds of Watts or so - living such nearby makes people sick). Less RF-power decelerates signal strength of the station resulting in poorer radio quality. But maybe it is not RF!? Stiffler always states that. So then what is it? I cannot see what prevents it consuming power somehow from the supply or signalgenerator-supply!!! I think its possible, that a stimulated core can produce energy. In this case: Until it is not running completely disconnected by its own, i beleave nothing - but hope the best.
Believe nothing if you like but it?s more then nothing there. It?s something and it is surely exciting.
I felt posting the above in exchange because I was also among the firsts questioning about the RF issue. (hmm, detractors?)
However, until now despite the almost unbelievable visual impact, one has to remember that the overall power is maybe at 0.8-1W. This is a fact, which is clearly achievable using one wire, conventional electric theory. Nonetheless, the work is still in progress. So any verdict would be just a bad guess. And probably like many others here, I am quietly watching the advancement, and also still waiting to see some solid proof about longitudinal waves (which imho do not exist) and of course about OU/FE. This would be science. Good science. And I?ll take my hat off in front of you Dr. Stiffler if you can keep the good road on. But it seems we are now in a dead end and I don?t entirely understand Dr. Stiffler at this point. Almost everything is on the table to show at least an estimate of power balance: dc in, light out (and some loses, of course) and to go solid. But subjects are taken personally and questions are taken as insults. Why?
Anyway: user hartiberlin, you have disturbed this thread. Please ban yourself for at least a weak! Lol
(This is just to make a point about banning. By the way, how is Humbugger?)
Last, but not least: Ben, I remember you are an excellent experimentalist. Glad you are here! Hope the old story about Mike/Bedini is over and some serious subjects may now be brought around the table.
Tinu
Hi Dr. Stiffler,@k4zep
DAMN good to see you did quit us. I agree with your measurements and thank you for the "worst case" numbers. I understand perfectly. My lousy board appears to be running at about a worse case as it can but the current and voltages I see across the LEDs agree with your numbers perfectly. I'm sort of busy today with family matters so experimenting time is short. More of that tonight.
It would appear that with the basic ON BOARD RF Osc. driver, you have the ability to generate 3X as much energy through/into the LEDs as the Osc. uses. Your numbers are absolutely worst case! A really good question that you have addressed before and is very difficult to measure, is: How much of that 300 mw do you actual use in the conversion process? From what I can tell, it is almost nil! I also assume the impedance converter you are talking about is a step up RF transformer to get as high a p/p RF to the BF xformer. In you basic L/C input circuit, this seems to do that also at resonance. Keep up the great work!
Now how much current @ 12VDC does that darn solar panel put out when illuminated via thos LEDs? There is so much loss here. I know patience is a virtue!
Ben@All
Let me post some worst case figures for you to look over. My single coil, driven by a Colpitts Oscillator drawing 5mA into an impedance converter drawing 20mA from 12 volts.
12 x 2.5E-2 = 0.300 or 300 mW input.
Driving 75 LEDS in series with a forward drop each of 3.2 -3.8 volts with 4mA in the series chain. Lets use the low forward drop;
75 x 3.2 = 240 volts therefore 240 x 4E-3 = 0.960 or 960 mW
Do you all understand? and this is worst case.
I do not apologize to anyone for my attitude as I have paid my dues and spent most of my life trying to absorb knowledge. If I get frustrated by those that might want to avoid the work and be handed something without effort on their part then indeed I do get livid.
This list and the people that have and are working on replications may very well be the people that make a difference for billions of people, which I can not do without their help. I am most adamant about a step at a time and not wasting time going into some radio transmitter myth.
Those that wish to, lets move forward, be a part of History, don't sit back and wait for #10, it can not come without support by the simple replications and removal of the basic objections. Scientists do not want to touch this. It should only takes days, not months or years once you commit and do.
>> Do you place all of your research in the public domain, and relinquish any claim on the apparatus and its variations?I do not apologize to anyone for my attitude as I have paid my dues and spent most of my life trying to absorb knowledge. If I get frustrated by those that might want to avoid the work and be handed something without effort on their part then indeed I do get livid.
This list and the people that have and are working on replications may very well be the people that make a difference for billions of people, which I can not do without their help. I am most adamant about a step at a time and not wasting time going into some radio transmitter myth.
Those that wish to, lets move forward, be a part of History, don't sit back and wait for #10, it can not come without support by the simple replications and removal of the basic objections. Scientists do not want to touch this. It should only takes days, not months or years once you commit and do.
Thank you, you are generous to post your research so openly, and I agree with you on the difference it will make. Do you place all of your research in the public domain, and relinquish any claim on the apparatus and its variations? You say "simple replications" and you are even careful not to frame the 'validators' as 'contributors', but what about those who stumble upon more complex improvements. Is not your work an improvement on anothers? Isn't your device an accident? Can you explain the principle of its operation?
Well it looks like I misjudged you!
Let me be the first to say that you ROCK!
Also, you are certainly not a fraud.
(But c'mon, that logo...)
Well it looks like I misjudged you!
Let me be the first to say that you ROCK!
Also, you are certainly not a fraud.
(But c'mon, that logo...)
>>(But c'mon, that logo...)
So what is wrong with my bird? That I will sell to you.
Welcome back Dr. Let's keep moving forward like you said. It's about the work, not the people anyway. Overall, I think this is a good group, you will see.Thank you, we will get there even though we have moles that carry back to other groups false statements.
Bill
@AdrianoIf you would please post a circuit diagram I will look at it and see if I can offer meaningful response to your questions.
Thanks for the request. I will do a series of tests on that level tonight. But, since you mention about the current I am very puzzled by it which comes to my question directed to
@Dr. Stiffer,
thanks for not leaving us and showing your work and even putting this effort for us to learn and may be improve on it. I did my simplified test (a few posts ago) only to eliminate many variables and be able to measure each individual step (I dont have the experience you have). I also tried one of the most simplified versions you posted with only the radio coil, the choque, cap, resistor and one led. I did succeed somewhat and I got the High voltage on the neon light and the led being lit.
My question: measuring the input current on my design (with only the leds and func gen) it was only about less than .10ma (one tenth of a 1 milliamp) and output current being .40ma and you just showed the math that implies a much higher current and voltage is necessary to light the leds, how is it possible that my design still lights 50+ leds? I measured the voltage accros all the leds and is still about 4.3volts. (I understand that somewhat my design is similiar to yours without the amplification, I think)
Fausto.
This is starting to look like people playing with the OU.COM people now. Would not be the first time.
But thank god we aren't being sent on unexpected business trips...
;)
Message Removed by HSCIA
@k4zep
I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.
You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.
I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Hi Dr. Stiffler,Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.
Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..
Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.
Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series.. Thats is all. See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw
Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal: 5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A: 27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.
LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.
I'm pretty confident of these readings. It only gets better with more LED's on the output. This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........
Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output. I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right. There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.
Ben@k4zep
I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.
You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.
I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Hi Dr. Stiffler,Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.
Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..
Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.
Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series.. Thats is all. See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw
Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal: 5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A: 27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.
LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.
I'm pretty confident of these readings. It only gets better with more LED's on the output. This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........
Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output. I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right. There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.
Ben@k4zep
I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.
You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.
I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
If the generator will not drive the LEDS direct and you have no inductance, one thing comes to mind. Place 4.7K ohm resistor from your generator to you ground connection, exclusive of the LEDS. In other words the generator Hot lead to one end of the resistor and the other end of the resistor to your ground connection. With a VOM or DVM or DMM measure the voltage across the resistor. Measure both A.C. and D.C. Don't worry about the meters frequency response, I expect to see a high A.C. voltage across the resistor. Even though you tried the inverter arrangement I suspect low level A.C. versus the generator signal.
How all of what I just said is rubbish if you can adjust the frequency to either side and the LEDS dim or go out. Should this be the case I might try a different outlet strip as the one you are using contains harmonic suppression inductors or varistors which could be bleeding into the A.C. hot side.
Hi Dr. Stiffler,
Circuit very resonant around base frequency of 5.8 MHz, tune for max lighting/which shows up as max differential across resistor. Bandwidth is a few hundred Khz wide. We are looking at the pure IR drop across resistor @ RF frequency. Further down in circuit waveforms identical to yours as shown in your scope shots. Much higher peak to peak voltages after L/C circuit before and feeding BF open ended coil. Can show scope shots if you need.
BenHi Dr. Stiffler,Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.
Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..
Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.
Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series.. Thats is all. See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw
Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal: 5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A: 27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.
LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.
I'm pretty confident of these readings. It only gets better with more LED's on the output. This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........
Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output. I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right. There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.
Ben@k4zep
I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.
You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.
I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
If the generator will not drive the LEDS direct and you have no inductance, one thing comes to mind. Place 4.7K ohm resistor from your generator to you ground connection, exclusive of the LEDS. In other words the generator Hot lead to one end of the resistor and the other end of the resistor to your ground connection. With a VOM or DVM or DMM measure the voltage across the resistor. Measure both A.C. and D.C. Don't worry about the meters frequency response, I expect to see a high A.C. voltage across the resistor. Even though you tried the inverter arrangement I suspect low level A.C. versus the generator signal.
How all of what I just said is rubbish if you can adjust the frequency to either side and the LEDS dim or go out. Should this be the case I might try a different outlet strip as the one you are using contains harmonic suppression inductors or varistors which could be bleeding into the A.C. hot side.
I cannot say how happy I am to see all this activity happening and the good doc back as well. :)One note that I must make for you, your IC drivers are basically current drivers and the output impedance my not be good enough. I tried using SN7400 and no cigar. If you drive from the drain with an inductor by MOSFET may be better. Keep it in mind in case you get poor response.
@Dr.Stiffler,
does your site server support php/mysql because you could run a CMS (Content Management System) on it and greatly ease the way you update your pages? I could help you out with the setup if you need assistance...
@Stefan,
please post your oscillator circuit here so that others may use it, if it proves to produce necessary drive. We really want everyone to be able to easily replicate all the findings so that naysayers have nothing to say. :)
I have built a new simple square wave oscillator (another hack job) by using a combination of two NAND (from 74HC00) and couple of hex-inverter schmitt triggers (from 74HC14) as the output boost. I find it working better in this configuration than flip-flop on its own or the hex-inverters on their own. I'm attaching a mock-up schematics...with this values I get around 10MHz, use your own judgment on filtering the DC power signal, I'm pretty bad at it. Matter a fact if someone can improve on this would be greatly appreciated.
Has someone tried that LTC based oscillator that was posted here couple of pages back yet?
Lastly could someone please tell me how to (properly) wind a 1.1uH L1 because I have not had much luck doing it so far with various online air coil calculators? I find it that using a commercial choke (of unknown inductance value) I had, makes the circuit work, while my own coils don't, grrrr.
Thanks.
One note that I must make for you, your IC drivers are basically current drivers and the output impedance my not be good enough. I tried using SN7400 and no cigar. If you drive from the drain with an inductor by MOSFET may be better. Keep it in mind in case you get poor response.
@Dr. Stiffler
What I also noticed is this: when I use my driver, if I touch my BaFe core on the edge of the primary side most of the time extinguishes the light from the LEDs. If I use your driver from PL01 circuit then I get the opposite, the LEDs shine so bright they burn my eyes.
Also, since this is driven by a 9V battery if I touch the casing of the battery using your PL01 circuit, the LEDs light up again so bright. Am I grounding the whole circuit by touching the battery casing or the BaFe core?
Thanks.
@Adriano (abassign)In all the years I've spent looking at and reading about different so called O/U devices (nearly 30 years), very few, if any, till now, have
I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly.
Fausto.
@plengo
"I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly".
Does anyone have comments on the remarks at http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit#Forum
He doesn't seem to think there is anything unusual about Dr. Stiffler's circuit:
========
This circuit is similar to a very common circuit used by thousands of people everyday to power the flash lamps in disposable cameras....Since the bulb is a 15 watt bulb, it will be bright during the 1/10 second it is consuming 14.4 watts. Thus the circuit performance can easily be explained without ?cold electricity? or ?over unity?.
Note that the primary of the transformer is being fed with an RF frequency signal. It is unclear if this is deliberate or if it is a parasitic oscillation. The open lead on the secondary of the transformer is not actually unconnected at RF frequencies but is connected to other parts of the circuit by the parasitic capacitance of the lead. Same for the neon bulbs.
========The gentleman has done a bang up job analyzing the circuit without building it using excellent conventional theory. He hasn't a clue as to why the RF is used, the resonance factor in the circuit, the AV plug theory, the BF coil theory, his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there.
IF it were a standard transformer, OSC/ etc. His numbers are dead on. BUT, by not building the Stiffler circuit, an analyzing what is going on, making measurements as to the actual input/output power, totally misses the point and calculations..........sad. The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.
Ben
his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there....The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.
Ben [/b][/b]
@canam101his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there....The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.
Ben [/b][/b]
Thanks for the reply.
I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.
Fantastic! You are reproduced the Avramenko experiment!Did I? well, I am glad of that!
It would now be interesting to close the circuit to mass with the generator of signals, to see if this has effect to heat the thin wire. If you have a termocouple or thermometer you can measure the heating of the thread in the two cases.I dont' think I will be able to measure any heat from this wire in my lab. It is so small, if any, that I would need a more controled envrionment for that.
I think that your experiment is fundamental better to understand the phenomenon. To what frequency are you using the generator of signals? And possible measure the current which comes along the wire with the oscilloscopio which I have seen in the photography? Can you send an image to be able to understand the current he passes to you? And also the tension.I agree. I am very puzzled by being able to light those leds with so little power. I measure again last night the current in/out and it is very interesting that the in current is less than .1 milliamp and the out can be as high as 20milliamp. Voltage has been very difficult to measure, it affects everything. I will take some shots of the oscilloscope from many different places in the circuit.
Can you use/build a simple signal generator, powered by a battery and therefore do again the tests verifying the absorption of the oscillator (always with the oscilloscope) and the group of the LEDs?I am working on that already. Soon I will be running this thing without the func-gen.
I Think is important to understand if the system composed by:I also tested this circuit in parallel to another one very similliar where ALL the leds are in parallel, about 15 more, and they all light bright (so a total of 70 leds). It seams that If I decouple the signal from the func-gen from the circuits I can run many more circuits at the same time with no logical reason from where the power is coming from. (I know this sounds craizy, but hey, Dr. Stiffler started all).
oscillator-> wire -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?
If is only a transport media the envelopment L1-L2-L3 used by Stiffer becomes fundamental.
At this point tries to insert only L1, do a test for his dimensioning and verifies what happens.
oscillator-> wire -> L1 -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?
do you need to match the driver frequency to the length of the wire ?No. It is the same frequency in this case. The wire was about 8 feet long. I dont khow if it is a standing wave.
What if you change the length ?
Do you then also have to adjust the
frequency ?
So is it a standing wave ?
Just came back from
www.segor.de
and bought a few 40106 hex inverters
2.2 uH coils and some smaller pF caps for my
oscillator.
I also had a look at the LTC 1799,
but man, is this thing small !
Too small for my soldering iron and
I could not handle this thing with my
hands.
It costs there 3,80 EU per piece.
If somebody would have a circuit board for it,
which I could buy, maybe this would be an alternative,
but for now I am trying to use just the 40106 hex schmitt trigger
IC.
Now I might get a higher amplitude with using 15 Volts supply.
P.S: Ben can you try your setup please with modifying your coil-
magnet core combination and tell us, what change will still work and
what not ?
We need to get to the parameters, which really produce the power amplification.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi all,
Look at pix attached. 1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire. Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it. FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.
Ben
REMEMBER you MUST have that L/C input series resonant device between the driver/generator and the BF coil for it to work properly and it must be at resonance for maximum output.......at least that is a start. The funkest thing is the possibility of a negative resistance or inductance reported by Dr. Stiffler with the BF coil on his inductance meter. I have to look into that!!!!
Ben K4ZEP
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D
I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)
Will post more as time goes by...
Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :DDid you buy this by gun point? These gen's are $1,495 new. :(
I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)
Will post more as time goes by...
Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Hi all,
Look at pix attached. 1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire. Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it. FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.
Ben
Ben,
please can you test, how much dependend the output brightness of your LEDs is
on the used signal generator voltage level ? 27 Volts pp ?
Input voltage PP vs. output seems linear but have really not measured it or graphed it.
What, if you used a lower driving voltage ?
LEDs are porportnately dimmer.
What frequency do you use ? Which is the best one ? Depend on leads, etc. anywhere between 5-8 MHz. Totally dependent on the resonant frequency of the series circuit driving the BF coil/core.
Can you go as low as 4 Volts peak to peak to drive it and
have still the LEDs lit the same brightness ?
I can't but my coil is very NON STANDARD. There are a whole bunch of variables in there as to number of turns, coupling, etc. A real analysis of the circuit would take time and be a real brain teaser. I'm sure @ 4V Peak to Peak I can get energy transfer across the circuit, whether there would be enough to drive a LED is a question. You have to have enough to turn on the diodes in the AV plug @ their summing junction. Then there has to be enough voltage and current to fire off the LEDs. I'll know a lot more when I get my coils in. I have some very nice litz wire that I can play around with a basic core and see if there is an optimum turn ratio on the device and answer a lot of questions I have as to what is going on. It MIGHT have nothing to do with turn ratio up to a point and then it might have everything to do with the BF resonance frequencies within the mass of the core and then the resonance of the large coil around it to match that frequency for maximum energy transfer/out. Another thing to remember is that this circuit can operate as a simple AV plug, one wire device @ under unity values. So there is no problem lighting a LED with RF or AF with the AV plug, just not the gain you want!...........
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D
I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)
Will post more as time goes by...
Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :DDid you buy this by gun point? These gen's are $1,495 new. :(
I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)
Will post more as time goes by...
Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are $1,495 new. :(
I cannot emphasize how important Ebay is for test equipment. I live and die with equipment off there. Most of my test equipment I get for less than 1/10 of what it cost new! Of course you have to read the fine print and know what you are doing but for us old timers, what a deal!
I don't know whether to be alarmed or just disappointed, but I tried to re-view Cold Electricity Part 9, and could no longer find it anywhere!!??
:-\
KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops
@Mark
Thanks for the detailed test report. I am having limited success.
Signal generator, HP 33250A, voltage 10 V. Oscilloscope Tektronix TDS2014B.
Using the specified core.
I can light up red LEDs not very bright at 3.610 MHz. Neon light up occasionally. Generally the circuit behavior is very itratic. I can not light up blue LEDs.
[
Its still where it was put?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE
Thank you Ron for posting the link. Must have been a glitch in my IE ???
I've added it straight to my favourites folder.
Fascinating stuff! Eagerly awaiting the next "Chapter"! :)
KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops
...
http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti03.avi
P.S. I still have a few ferrite fridge magnets laying around here.
I will later also wound 2 coils around them and try these.
Ben, did you use Litz wire for the primary coil in your magnet-coil setup ?
Okay, my videos are now also online at Youtube
over here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/overunitydotcom
Enjoy !
Regards, Stefan.
Good morning Stefan, Looked at your videos on Youtube NOW put the core back in and vary frequency, you should get an output on the large winding when you hit the right freq. somewhere between 4-10Mhz! Very good work. The tuning will be fairly sharp within 3-400 KHz. Outside that resonant frequency (resonant frequency of the BF excititation/coil) no output.
Ben
There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device. That is where its output is! I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output. ... I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.
@MarkThe coil issue is covered earlier in the thread and on my web site, but the primary needs to be wound in the sane direction as the secondary.
Thanks again. My observations were only with the signal generator attached. If the scope is connected the OP seems quite strong. The Blue LED turns on quite nicely then.
@DrStiffler,
I have a batch of the 680uH cores and as they are the critical part of this investigation I wanted to clear up a few points.
1- The number turns you specified at 9 turns but I count 11 in the picture.
2- You did say that the sense of the L3 should be the same as the L2 core. Please can you verify that. Either my L2 cores are wound the wrong way by the manufacturer or the image may be mirrored somehow.
3- You use a symbol for the L2-L3 combination which indicates 3 different windings. L2, as arrives from the supplier only has one winding. Am I missing something?
regards
AM
Stefan,
Thank you for the report. So in your experiment you did not need the core after all. Are you talking TPU now?!
Is your scopes power input ground floating or connected to the eartth of the mains?
AM
I want to take this opportunity to voice my highest respect for Dr. Stiffler AND 'the whole team' that has gathered in the operating theater....
http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti03.avi
@hartiberlin
I watched your video, harti, and noticed that you use very long cores together with a relatively short coil. You insert the core so that it protrudes very far beyond the left side of the coil and stands out only very short beyond the other side of the coil.
Maybe it would make a difference if you positioned the coil symmetrically in the center of the core.
Note that Dr. Stiffler's 'magic coil' is also wound symmetrically over the middle of the core.
Thanks again to everybody.
Dr. Stiffler has just updated his website withGood evening Stefan, Dr. Stiffler and all,
a higher power incand. bulb output experiment.
Have a look at his new scopeshots.
Reminds me a lot at the scopeshots that Roberto und Otto
got in their TPU research...
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Ben,
interesting feedback.
Will try it tommorow.
I have to go earlier to bed now in the next days, so I just don?t live at nights only... ;D
What about this function generator ?
You can buy it as a kit for a built kit ready to go.
http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325
But it only goes to 20 Mhz.
Maybe Ron can tell us, what the highest frequency is, that is required ?
But I will also have a look at ebay.
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,
I know what you mean about sleep. It is 1:09 A.M. I have spent the last 7 hours humped over a scope and trying to better understand this circuit. It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works. It appears that it has to be a potential fed circuit and not a current fed circuit. Everything seems to depend on it having the least switching current @ the highest potential into the open ended device whereupon output potential is converted into current via the AV plug. The LC circuit basically takes the low impedance of the sig. gen and converts it to HV RF to drive the BF coil hence the AV plug.
Generator looks good but if you can get a HP, Tecktronic, B&K, or any good RF sig generator that has a good power supply and well shielded would be better in the long run.
If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU. Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed but I suspect that procedure is faulted. If you keep the impedance/resistance low in the input circuit, drive with pure potential switching back and forth power flows via the longitudinal potential only waves. I'm up to about .166 Watt output now, very bright 10 LEDs with virtually no input current (I think) trying to find/buy a RF probe to get a more accurate series of voltages across the circuit.....Hummmmm just had another idea..Going to wait till tomorrow................Man I'm pooped, tired...... going to sleep on it......I'm gone to bed.
73's
Ben K4ZEP
If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU. Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.
It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.
It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.
Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM
I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.
Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.
Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?
If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU. Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed
Raising the input resistance is one of the best ways to measure input characteristics in dificult to measure circuits... you keep raising the input resistance untill the output drops to 50% -- this tells you the input impedance of the circuit.
If the circuit was running in a potential only drive mode then you could raise the input impedance a long way -- to say M ohms or at least 100's K ohms, before the output dropped to 50%. The fact that you cant raise the input impedance much indicates that the circuit really requires a significant current to drive it... This makes sense as it appears to be a seris LC resonant circuit which will give high voltage rise but needs a very low impedance to drive it. You could think of it as a low to high impedance matching network -- this is a great way to generate high voltages from low voltage (current mostly) drive without a transformer. Voltage gains are only limited by the impedance ratio and the Q. Google "impedance matching network" for more information.
mark.
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.
It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.
It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.
Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM
I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.
And you ARE? The untimate authority fro all and keeper of the faith.
If you were able to read a schematic and a parts list, duplicate as stated (exact) then even you could build one.
Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.
Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?
It's a reasonable question and directed toward making it possible for people to replicate the circuit. If you really want to give this to the world, why don't you publish enough detail to enable people to replicate it?
I'm not asking the experimenters to waste time on my questions, I'm asking you, the only person who knows exactly what your circuit consists of, to give the experimenters the information they need to replicate it.
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.
It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.
He has published complete specs. What you have here is a bunch of people not doing exactly what he said. You don't really expect him to write more detail that people don't follow, do you?
Cheers,
Mr. Entropy
And many of them are! calm down and watch.Hi All,
There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device. That is where its output is! I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output. ... I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.
The fundamental resonance appears to come from the inductance of the secondary and the junction capacitance of the IN4148 diodes. I have attached the datasheet here. The secondary sees a complex capacitance from the two AP diodes -- however even a sinple LC resonance calculation shows that the figures agree pretty well. Here is a link to a good LC resonance calculator http://www.pronine.ca/lcf.htm. If you want to tune further then set up a resonator on the primary side for the same frequency...
You could try to tune the two just out of phase -- this will result in the power beating between the input and output -- exactly the same as in good tesla coil design. This may work better than exact tuning as the total power transfered wont be any less but the higher voltages at the AP may reduce losses in power transfer there. It's hard to predict and the tight coupling of the primary and secondary may limit this aproach.
Whatever you do -- tuning the primary side to the same frequency will certainty reduce losses in the AP and inprove power transfer.
cheers
mark.
Ben,That is very logical and basically the way I look at it. How do you show the return path for the RF????? Logically and to the core that is what bugs me more than anything! I realize @ 7-10 MHz, capacitive reactance builds up fast and might be the return path for all the parasitic elements in the circuit. Current peaks and voltage dips @ resonance around the input. It always boils down to the fine points. For my self who is more of a puttering builder, (darn it, this is JUST a hobby) I have always disliked the documenting of devices like this! But then there comes a time like this........
I suspect that L1 adds enough inductance to force the impedance looking into it to be inductive. Then C1 cancels the inductive reactance so that the impedance looking into C1 is pure real at resonance. This allows more power from generator to be used since all of the voltage is going across a real impedance. I no longer have a lab so I can not check this myself.
I justsaw,Great jumping Jehoshaphat...I have been worrying about a return ground, latest schematic shows everything with a common ground! Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't, I.............do.................sheeesssssssh...
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp
Here it is:
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp
Here it is:
The 555 is is not a good chip for this. But either way, glad to see the func-gen gone. I asked before and saw clearly Dr. S said no func-gen and all the post I hear about the freq from the func-gen.
The VCC and ground on the circuit can tell what power is put in and the Rl can tell output power.
I would still check it with a scope. Also, 20Mhz? That is a 555 timer, it ain't going there? Maybe a new one is out that I have not heard about (but they have not done anything with that hobby timer chip for years)?
Last, the N-channel FETs are not a problem, or the Q's. but again confused on the 2 coils (with or without a core), with no values (rough ones posted if I read or have Ebay) and still I see that L3 in there.. Are there values for them? Is the L3 a choke or something thrown in? Like the first version or starting points?
I have not and will not build it until there are clear specs (and yes I have these parts and the same proto board).
But looks like it is getting closer. Will pop in soon and see where all are.
Ben, where in Florida PM me.
Yes, the Rload in his circuit is his incand. bulb that is energized
every second once, when the cap is full via the 555 chip 1 Hz generator.
Hmm, Ben, do you also get at your AP LED a DC voltage, when you don?t have
a cap there ?Yes I do, enough parasitic cap. @ 10 MHz to integrate the pulsations. Cap will also charge up if you replace the LED's with it. Just watch out, voltage can get pretty high on it. Mine goes above 100VDC in several seconds. Dr. Stiffler's must be a barn burner to charge over 600uf to 120V in 1 second!!!
Normally I would have expected a pulsed DC, but I have a pure DC without a cap there,
just looked with the scope only directly at the LED...
Hmm..radio frequency circuits are really strange sometimes..
So a 555 with nothing on the threshold, discharge and trigger runs at 1hz? News to me. But I do not use them a lot.That part missing but standard pots and cap. Short on time. (Inverted)
The the other side of the circuit is the osc. OK.
It does not matter still as VCC and ground you can see the input current and Rload the output. And no telling what that 555 will do floating like that. Circuit imcomplete, look at photos, you will see what is missing.
This is a long way away from the first couple circuits, but still listening.. Just glad there is no function generator hooked to it.
At least now it is getting to a point where I can build one, after I see more components on the 555 :) Still like to see values on the schematic for L1/L2/L3 as well. I have to antique radios (AM only before FM) that I do not need.
And Stefan said it worked as well without the core. This still the case? I have not pulled them out :)
So a 555 with nothing on the threshold, discharge and trigger runs at 1hz? News to me. But I do not use them a lot.Really! If you need help in making a 555 pulse 50% duty cycle, 2 R's and one capacitor. Please don't waste your time with my circuits, this is the simplest part of any of them.
The the other side of the circuit is the osc. OK.
It does not matter still as VCC and ground you can see the input current and Rload the output. And no telling what that 555 will do floating like that.
This is a long way away from the first couple circuits, but still listening.. Just glad there is no function generator hooked to it.
At least now it is getting to a point where I can build one, after I see more components on the 555 :) Still like to see values on the schematic for L1/L2/L3 as well. I have to antique radios (AM only before FM) that I do not need.
And Stefan said it worked as well without the core. This still the case? I have not pulled them out :)
@Ron,
Is L1 (2.2u) air core?
Regards, AM
If someone want understand, I share my equations investigation:Dr. Stifflers most challanging circuit is the double push pull working ONLY from the ground. By your math, it appears you have really looked into the Tesla devices! Most excellent and glad to see your post.
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html)
Every coil has self-transforming properties. Frequency generator on one end will give high voltage on the other. This is main principle for Tesla's 3-th coil voltage amplifier (magnify coil). It don't need closed loop circuit.
Important is knowledge about splitting frequency in two (one of them can become very high, if k is near 1):
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html)
Dr. Steffler has build interesting things. Maybe he has k near 1 (because of core), and strange effect, when f2=f/sqrt(1-k) go to infinite.
Maybe in nature 'infinite' mean something new.
I have some strange effect with my work:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html)
Generator for excitement can be HF bulb, with Al-foil around bulb (without touch, only around).
I think that this device will became better if put another 2 diodes and capacity with plate in the air. Air has free electrons and ions, and cosmic rays are charge them with energy.
Ground is good, but it need plate in air too, for collecting that air energy (LED diodes has some low surface, and some capacity too).
In Dr Stifflers circuit above the Emitter seems to be shorted to the Base divider network.
It looks like a Colpits oscillator so I guess it shoud be open at this point?
Smoky
R Stiffler
have you noticed the extropy in the system? and its mirror oposite entropy? you are leading people down an interesting path I think will be most interesting when people realize it.
I can not access his google groups yet.
Has nobody got some comments to my last postings ?
Hi Ben, what are your latest results ?
Measure input current via conventional iron vane ma meter in series with circuit. Output is simply current and voltage. Results are very encouraging and circuit development is coming along. IT takes a LOT of knowledge to do this right as my circuit base frequency is around 9/18/ 27 MHz. It will drive a DVM to false readings which makes it almost useless with these circuits.
How do you measure your output versus input power ? See above.
I am still waiting for the cores to come in. I got 10 of the 600+uh off Ebay and they work great.
They are already shipped via airmail, but it still can take
a few days to go through customs until they will be here.
You will like the results. Strive for a high output stable Osc, square wave out.......Picture of my latest unit. 1 Watt in. Totally experimental circuit. Osc. is designed by a friend, Ossie in AU. Oddball Osc, works like a champ. Lots of things become clear as you work with it. I have spend at least 150 hours working on this thing so far (talk about a crick in the neck!), not nearly there yet for a high power unit. I have been liberating silicon smoke, getting burned with RF, making a mess in my shop but I'm starting to get a handle on it. Just for reference, each AV plug can put out about 14.5 ma @ 12 V in this circuit. (known value from charging battery) With Neon, voltage/current is different. Input does not change with this load!
More to come from Dr. Stiffler when he feels he is ready, I'm just the experimenter and this is for fun. For him, this is damn serious.. He is the father and it is his baby.
Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP
Regards, Stefan.
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\
@Ben,
What do you think of using this theory on the TPU? Well if this is how it is happening then maybe it wouldn't really be a TPU would it?
Thinking out loud here now, instead of using the ferrite what about a bundle of wire for the core?, multiple segments for the transformers (four of them, maybe even 3) using a simple blocking Osc or similar, maybe even a 555 using a Tip33 for the driver. L1 could be a small torrid coil. Maybe use a strong neo to provide saturation to the core material.
Now take 3 or 4 AV plugs and use them to pulse charge a large cap that has a voltage rating of say 200vdc, then try to power a bulb after a bit of a wind up.
What do you think??
Just a my mind wandering.... humm
Let the old noggin wander, what your purpose is good for about a week of testing. Go for it!!!!!
Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\
Your wrong!
Its the beginning.
Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.
I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.
The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.
Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\
Your wrong!
Its the beginning.
Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.
I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.
The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.
Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.
I have opened up some additional information on the coils and how to do some measurements.
www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\
Your wrong!
Its the beginning.
Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.
I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.
The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.
Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.
Ron sure knows how to build the suspense for his yet unreleased "closing the loop with a small solar panel" video. I have some thoughts on this regarding efficiency. A typical white LED is about 27 percent efficient in terms of converting electrical energy into light energy, and a typical commercially available polycrystalline or crystalline solar panel, about 10 to 20 percent efficient. Assuming Ron is able to efficiently couple the light from LED's to solar panel he will be lucky to recover an efficiency of 2.7 to 5.4 percent. (My guess is that 1 to 2 percent would be more realistic.) If Ron is able to pull this off, it would be a most impressive demonstration, as it means he is not only winning the fight, but winning with over 9 out 10 fingers tied behind his back! Of course, to really impress us, the solar panel would feed a capacitor and not a battery, and all other significant light sources turned off or blocked, so as not to feed the solar panel. Anyway, even if it turns out the solar panel dosn't provide enough power to close the loop, perhaps the loop can be closed with a couple of ceramic capacitors feeding a full wave bridge etc. perhaps trading the nice isolation provided by the solar panel, for higher efficiency. Finally, I am thinking about designing an experimental circuit board, that anyone could download the data file for, and have made online, or make themselves. (This would be for experimental, non commercial use only and layout copyright would go to Dr. Stiffler). Let me know if you are interested or have any thoughts on this, like where to put extra capacitance etc.There have been recent breakthroughs in solar cell research. This article mentions efficiency of 42%
I wonder, why in :
http://67.76.235.52/drstiffler/buildup.asp
the voltage is smallest at the resonance frequency ?
Sorry to be a bother, but does anybody know where to purchase BaFe cores? The original eBay seller doesn't seem to sell them anymore.
If obtaining cores proves to be a problem, does anybody know how I'd go about making my own cores from BaFe powder?
Hi Harti
The reason the voltage drops on the test circuit at self resonance is that the measurement circuit is in SERIES with the coil.
78ma from the 12V battery. Only had 67 LEDs. Estimate the circuit could light up to 200 LEDs.
Ossie
I am the Ebay Seller that sells the 680uh ferrite coils. They are the ones used Dr. Stiffler as I sold them to him. I logged in to this site to see what all the commotion was about. OU :o interesting.
Hi Ben,
nice to see your picture now with the 30 neon bulbs.
Can you tell us more about this ? It Used the Ossie On board Osc. 100 ma@ 12VDC in.
Did you also get the core from this Ebay seller
Mr. Lowe from Middletown, OH 45044 ? I got from zlowe7 in Cincinatti, Ohio. Possibly the same guy. Coils seem the same.
Do you now see much more amplification with it ? It shows all the needed charactoristics.
How much power did you put in there to drive
the 30 neon bulbs and at what frequency ? 1.1 watt @ 9 Mhhz
What is you voltage p-p to drive this from your signal generator ? Osc on board, battery powered.
Can you , if you hit the resonance frequency of the core
lower in the input signal generator voltage , without the neon bulbs
reducing their brightness ? Brute force, no resonance, did not try to resonate.
Have gone so much further since this "teaser", MOST important, you must operate this system open loop during power generation for the OU effect to be there. The Ossie C. circuit is just a start, works good. Always better ways. It is amazing, there is these "globs" of power generated at the end of multiple AV plugs/loops. To use it is the basic problem. Closing the loop is the hardest to do, or transfering OU energy back to normal operating system.......
If yes, to what level ?
Many thanks.
Hi Harti
The reason the voltage drops on the test circuit at self resonance is that the measurement circuit is in SERIES with the coil.
Yes,but in the circuit diagram he is showing it being measured across the 50 ohm load resistor.
If the series LC circuit atresonance has about less than 1 Ohm impedance, all
voltage should be at the 50 Ohm resistor, so the voltage should
be maximum at resonance, not lowest... or do I mix something up here ?
I realy do not understand, why there is nobody, who closes the loop to plug off the battery or an external powered signal generator!!! To close the loop, use a mini-solar-panel, fed by the light of the LEDs. To start-up the circuit, put external light on the panel, powered by a battery/supply or so. After successfull initialization switch off the battery and remove it completely. WHAT YOU ARE WAITING FOR???
Isn't closing the loop going to break the dia-pole and rid us of the radiant energy being created? When that happens we end up in the realm of the underunity where all of our conventional devices work in...but not really where we want to be.Is it possible to generate energy @ a overunit rate, then transfer that energy to a closed loop system, that is take energy from open ended system, transfer it to closed loop system while not disturbing the OU system.
Is it possible to generate energy @ a overunit rate, then transfer that energy to a closed loop system, that is take energy from open ended system, transfer it to closed loop system while not disturbing the OU system.
", but I was hoping to allude to a lack of devices that use radiant energy directly from the source and are based on open loop system. :) "
I think we should divide our focus not just on tapping into the sea of radiant energy but also constructing devices that are powered by it directly in accordance with natural principles. Else, if we continue converting to our closed loop system we just perpetuate the old inefficient ways.
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp
Here it is:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3457.0;attach=14106)
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp
Here it is:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3457.0;attach=14106)
I just got an email with a few comments to this circuit and
the core:
For one the connection from R3 to R2 is wrong and should not be there.
Next Q1 is a oscillator driving M1 as an amplifier.
This is a typical RF transmitter circuit.
The output from M1 is where you would put an antenna. In this case the antenna is a wire running to a coil. L1 and L3 are what is known as a antenna tuner or matching circuit. As most hams know when the antenna length or is tuned to the wright frequencies the alternating current or voltage will flow back and forth in tune with driver. That is why one wire works here.
Next L2 picks up the voltage from the antenna and amplifies it some due to the transformer action. This becomes like the receiving antenna.
Next D1 and D2 make a voltage doubler charging the capacitor Cp to twice the input voltage.
Next the 555 timer just turns the load on and off.
The D1 and D2 and capacitor make what is known as a charge pump. The size of the capacitor determines the amperage. The larger the capacitor is the longer it takes to build up full charge but the discharge is determined by the size of the capacitor and load.
Besides using one wire output and input this is exactly the same way a 1.5 volt battery in a flash camera makes the 3000 volts to flash the bulb.
Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar. So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum. My cores are made with Iron particales with a zinc magnesium base. Some cores use copper, nickel and Aluminum as doping compounds. As Copper and Aluminum are para magnetic and will increase the frequency response on the core.
Next although this most likely was not from Stiffer but a neon bulb will give off light due to the ionization on the neon at high frequencies. Only a few volts at high frequencies will light the bulb. I used to test some car CB's buy touching on lead from a neon bulb to the antenna. The volage at the antenna was no where near 90 volts.
But at least post that the connection on Q1 R3 to R2 is wrong. Next C7 may be best suited to a variable capacitor to fine tune the antenna output.
Maybe my dual 266pf can be connected to operate 10- 532pf. For driving neon bulbs capacitor Cp may not be needed or a very low value. You can put a load resistor across Cp say 10k or so and adjust the variable capacitor for max voltage with the 555 timer not in operation.
I logged in today to announce something very important, but now seeing this it can wait a bit.
"Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar."
If you didn't mean what I think you did in the above statement, then why did you waste your time stating that you were ignorant of barium ferrite bars? Seems kinda stupid... lol ;D
"Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar."Now I know how politician's feel every taken taken out of context. Ignorance is a lack of knowing something. Stupid is something else. I did not see you explain the circuit. Was this because you were ignorant of its operation. I do not call anyone "STUPID" even those that do not know how this simple circuit works.
If you didn't mean what I think you did in the above statement, then why did you waste your time stating that you were ignorant of barium ferrite bars? Seems kinda stupid... lol ;D
Now your stating that nothing you said is of relevance to what you mean or something... Good job, you confused me... I thought we were talking about how you never heard of barium ferrite bars (or cores). Did I miss something?Why is it you only quoted the first sentence the last part says I did research and found none. Read this I state it twice "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" maybe if I say it enough it will soak in. Buy the way 99% of the time if I have not heard of something I been doing for 45 years, it because it does not exist. You are about forcing me to use "STUPID" word.
By the way, I wasn't matching ignorance and stupid, I was saying it's stupid to STATE how your ignorant of something.... ::)
Like you said, you didn't know about barium ferrite bars, so your ignorant of it... Now, instead of stating how you were ignorant about something, why didn't you just go research a tad before your post? it's a question... You never said that people told you it didn't exist, you just said you never heard of it. This led me to believe there might be more to why you never knew, so I asked a question. :)
Can't we all just get along? :)
Now your stating that nothing you said is of relevance to what you mean or something... Good job, you confused me... I thought we were talking about how you never heard of barium ferrite bars (or cores). Did I miss something?Why is it you only quoted the first sentence the last part says I did research and found none. Read this I state it twice "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" maybe if I say it enough it will soak in. Buy the way 99% of the time if I have not heard of something I been doing for 45 years, it because it does not exist. You are about forcing me to use "STUPID" word.
By the way, I wasn't matching ignorance and stupid, I was saying it's stupid to STATE how your ignorant of something.... ::)
Like you said, you didn't know about barium ferrite bars, so your ignorant of it... Now, instead of stating how you were ignorant about something, why didn't you just go research a tad before your post? it's a question... You never said that people told you it didn't exist, you just said you never heard of it. This led me to believe there might be more to why you never knew, so I asked a question. :)
And by the way read this direct quote from original post" So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum" read quoted part several several more times do you see the words "I did research" Do not ask me again why I did not research when I did. Read this again "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" . Enough on this. You confuse to easy.
How totally unpredictable .. hahaha
Oh the great Stifeler has decided to punish us and make us wait ... lol .. get out of here .. are you guys still buying this malarky !!
Cheers,
Keep on Keeping on ...
Dean
You are correct whether DC or some kind of driver may be more efficient is yet to be seen.
How totally unpredictable .. hahaha
Oh the great Stifeler has decided to punish us and make us wait ... lol .. get out of here .. are you guys still buying this malarky !!
Cheers,
Keep on Keeping on ...
Dean
KneeDeep...Yeh, I'm sort of buying the malarky. Me, I don't believe in O/U. But each jump for the impossible, brings within reach the newly possible. We all know that LEDS are more efficient than Incandescent Lamps in terms of Lumens per watt, but is direct current versus RF excitation the best means to get those lumens per watt?
That is the....KneeDeep.......Question that I am asking. These LED experiments are important on shedding new light, (pun intended) on the best possible methods of creating said light from said LEDS. Buuuurpppp. ;D
Back in the 1980-1990's we were introduced to RF/Fluorescent light bulbs, which proved to be much more economical than incandescent or standard ballast triggered Fluorescent bulbs. If the search for O/U results in higher real efficiencies, then all the malaky is worthwhile.
In the meantime I just like bright lights,, ,, and whirrrring motoors,,,,,, KneeDeep!..... :D
From the Toad who Hops
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here.
He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
I would like this to be for real as much as the next guy but, so far, according to everything I have read here, it is just an ordinary rf generator lighting up some diodes, with zero evidence that it is OU.
If stiffler ever offers real evidence and enough information for people to replicate the circuit, or provides sample devices for people to test, then I guess we will know for sure one way or the other. But all he does, as far as i can see, is play games, the latest one being the 'big announcement' that he was going to make, but will not make because somebody dared to be skeptical.
He sure as hell doesn't sound like somebody who really has invented a world-changing device.
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).
AM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).
AM
Its this concillatory tone that turkeys (ducks) like this depend on to perpetuate their mallicious trolling on an undeserving good willed forum such as this one. I have stayed out of this long enough, I am a reasonable person but i insist that this game of cat an mouse should come to an end.
(Dr) Stiffler please put up or shut up. Your condescending tone towards all descenters of your game has gone on too long and is detrimental to this forum. You can not hide behind your scientific smoke screen forever so better to come out now before you besmirch what good there is left our your good name. We need intelligent people like you to work with, not to resent for some high school prank.
Regards,
Dean
Please everyone I did not want this avalanche of Stiffler to start.
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.@dean
Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.
Regards,
Dean
The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.
Hi Dean,
dont you think, lighting a few LEDs with just a ground cable is not quite amazing without any battery and all shielded ?
According to Dr Stiffler's website, one experiment was done with a 9v 655 mAHr zinc carbon battery as the supply.
He got 27 hours of use with 10 x white leds rated at 3.8V 21mA with equates to 0.798 watts (that assumes the LED's are on 100% of the cycle).
Power from the battery is 9V x 0.655 AHr = 5.895 Watts for one hour or more realistically, 0.5895 watts for 10 hours.
Power out is 0.798 x 27 hours = 21.54 watts for one hour or 2.154 watts for 10 hours.
So 3.6 times more out than in or 360% efficient.
(Sorry for any errors in my maths)
The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.
The fillament bulb is a much better example and I would be more confident of the results from this.
@ DrZLowe7,
Still waiting for cores, should be here soon hopefully. I ordered some diodes and a couple of variable caps too.
Regards
Rob
Just to revise my comment about the flashing of the LED:
I have just remembered that from experimenting with the PIC chip that switching and LED on and off 1000's of times a second just produces a very dimly lit LED.
So putting a scope across the LEDs and looking at the value of series resistor it may be possible to calculate output power.
I suppose the load is odd in that the current will only start flow once the voltage exceeds say 2V per LED (or there abouts).
If nothing else this will make an excellent circuit for a bycle light or work lamp, camping lamp etc.
Regards
Rob
Just something to try. Power your LED through a diode this will cause some more voltage drop but still may work. And place a capacitor from the diode connection at the LED to ground. Try different values if you have them 10uf or so. If you have a very large value it may take a while before the capacitor becomes fully charged and the LED begins to glow even 10uf may take a little while. This should brighten them up a little maybe and reduce ripple so you make tests.This would be the obvious answer but I think that adding a capacitor will unbalance the circuit and certainly load the primary at a different phase angle/position.
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.@dean
Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.
Regards,
Dean
Since the beginning of this year you have posted 10 messages. 6 of them in this thread and not one of the in the spirit of co-operation. I believe I am beginning to understand how people like Bob Boyce or Bedini feel like.
AM
L2 is the litz wire coil from the AM coreThanks for the info on the L2 showing as two coils, this was really confusing me - now I know its one coil.
and L3 is the hand wound about 10 turn coil around it.
He used 2 coils in the circuit diagram for L2, cause it justhad more turns,
so to make it clear which one is the bigger turn Litz wire coil = L2
DrZLowe7,Please go back to the 16th posting page.
Do you think you can get your supplier to give you the specification of the core material? There is a big issue about
Barium Ferrite properties and as we are trying to get to the bottom of things, it is important to know such facts.
Regards
AM
"One of the initial problems in starting this approach was the light lost from the sides of the LEDS due to reflections in their plastic enclosures. The first of many solar cells proved to be less than efficient. The one shown above was made from film and was highly reflective as can be seen on the the proto-board directly below the LEDS."
Jester ???
6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon ::)
The thick plottens :P
I don't get it: why should anyone have to join a 'team' to be allowed to understand how to build a device that is so earth-shaking? When Roentgen discovered x-rays, he didn't require that anybody join a team; he published the exact way to make an x-ray machine, and laboratories all over the world were soon making them.
Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.
Do it right and join the team, do it your way or be a 'Lip' server and so be it, your out of the loop.
Current status of SEC, 'Spatial Energy Coherence'. It now appears that I have been partially in error, in that the coils 'Do Not' determine the OU effect, yet they can enhance it.
is this a typo and you wanted to say:It is correct to say "in that the coils", this makes perfect sense to me.
"that the cores..."
"It now appears that I have been partially in error, the coils themselves do not create the OU effect but they can enhance it."
So 84 mWatts with LEDs - 36 mWatts without LEDs= 48 mWatts power for the running LEDs,
so do I have more brightness then 48 mWatts ?
Have to check this out with more LEDs.
Tests on LED apparent brightness:
The human eye detects peak light levels. There are cells in the eye that trigger when light above a specific level hits them. These cells send a message to the brain saying that there is a light in a certain location. It takes time for these cells to reset. If after some time has past and they have reset and they are again triggered and send another signal to the brain, the brain assumes that the light was on continuously the full time between signals. When pulses are used to power a filament light bulb, it takes time for the bulb to turn on and the bulb will look dim if only short pulses are used. But LEDs turn on very quickly and so will reach full brightness even with very short pulses. I used the following circuit to determine how little average power was needed to make an LED appear to be at full brightness when it is being pulsed. This circuit develops several hundred volts at the collector and produces very short pulses with high current. Thus the LED is turned on very brightly for only a small part of each cycle (about 1%). It is very difficult to measure current pulses accurately. This circuit accomplishes this by measuring the current through the resistors after the capacitor at the LED output has fully charged. At this time no net current is going into the capacitor and it has a relatively steady voltage across it making it possible to make an accurate measurement of the voltage across one of the resistors (from which the current can be calculated). The LED used for this test was a super bright green LED rated at 15,000 mcd at 3.6 volts and 50 ma. which would be 180 mw power consumption for full brightness. But as the test shows, the same apparent brightness was obtained using pulses with only 0.43 ma average power which is only 1.5 mw. Therefore the LED was actually consuming about 1% of the power requited for the equivalent brightness using continuous current instead of pulses.
The human eye detects peak light levels. There are cells in the eye that trigger when light above a specific level hits them. These cells send a message to the brain saying that there is a light in a certain location. It takes time for these cells to reset. If after some time has past and they have reset and they are again triggered and send another signal to the brain, the brain assumes that the light was on continuously the full time between signals.
@ hoptoad,
The point was that LEDs sometimes look like they are consuming more power than they actually are. Therefore your suggestions might not always work.
Hey guys
I don't know if you saw my post a few pages back, but I outlined a way which unless I am mistaken should measure if the circuit is OU, and by how much, and also takes into account any perceived brightness vs. actual brightness discrepancies.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449)
Stefan: would you be able to give the experiment in the above topic a run through with your coils? I think it would go a long way towards putting some hard numbers towards exactly how much this experiment is OU.
- James
Jester ???
6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon ::)
The thick plottens :P
Gee! does not your post explain why there are no publications. What is the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink'.
We have all learned our lesson from your type of distraction. So many people suffer because of your inference. Do you by chance work for OPEC?
ICold electricity, Claims of OU, Quote ?I?ll run my house off this?, your just like the rest of the show boaters that pop up here with no real data, no true scientific documents or proof, and your attitude proves it.
Jester ???
6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon ::)
The thick plottens :P
Gee! does not your post explain why there are no publications. What is the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink'.
We have all learned our lesson from your type of distraction. So many people suffer because of your inference. Do you by chance work for OPEC?
@Ron,
He is a minion in some Illuminati controlled organization.
His name appears in the the year book. Need I say more?
www.sigep.org/documents/journal-spring-2007.pdf
I will now see, if somebody can introduce a real OU circuit with it with a positive feedback, that runs on its own energy and which is really replicateable with an offered kit including PCB board...otherwise this RF effects are just too variable to get someting to work in this frequency range.
Regards, Stefan.
Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.
But video camera CCD responseds very similar to human eye. It records peak level of light on pixel during each frame (about 1/30 second) [...]
After the Avramenkp plug there is pure DC at the LEDs and the cap, so it is easy to measure there the DC power in the LEDs. No optocoupler circuit needed, you can measure pure DC electrical power.
I do indeed dispute that you have true DC. ......you can still hold a neon on the end with one lead in your fingers and get it to light.
Exactly what I thought, hence the optocoupler.
Hans von Lieven
"You cannot just measure the DC current going through the LEDs to check for over-unity, you actually need to check the input to the entire circuit against the light output. "
@Amigo,
can you please show a picture of your Thomas circuit ?
Did you built it also onto an experimentator board, that has 2 alu backplates ?
How do you control the resonance frequency with this circuit ?
How do you adjust it for optimal resonance ?
I hope we can get rid of these experimentator boards and can try to
create something that works on a normal PCB board, so one could
create a kit that also works without any problems.
Assuming 35 ma is the real average for the point of reference, then just 3 LEDS running at that current would account for 12 V x .035 = 420 milliwatts. You have what appears to be 20 LEDS running very brightly :o :o
Previous quote "The circuit apparently oscillates at ~1.5MHz and uses ~32mA of current from my 12V gel battery though that figure seems to fluctuate up and down, I've seen it go up to 70mA when I was probing points with my scope but that's just temporary."
Photo is attached (turned out pretty nice in close-up). :)
So now that this works how do we get rid of the battery altogether? ;D
So now that this works how do we get rid of the battery altogether? ;D
Burn it ???
Hans von Lieven
P.S. Remember the idea of comparing the brightness to a "standard candle". 1 LED fed from 12 V DC through a 1-k ohm resistor = 144 milliwattAssuming 35 ma is the real average for the point of reference, then just 3 LEDS running at that current would account for 12 V x .035 = 420 milliwatts. You have what appears to be 20 LEDS running very brightly :o :o
Previous quote "The circuit apparently oscillates at ~1.5MHz and uses ~32mA of current from my 12V gel battery though that figure seems to fluctuate up and down, I've seen it go up to 70mA when I was probing points with my scope but that's just temporary."
Photo is attached (turned out pretty nice in close-up). :)
Just how brightly! is the key question to me. Things "look" very promising from here.
Great Job Amigo. ;)
KneeDe...
In your last video you mentioned how the coil were no different but what you are calling coils look to be magnets, is that what they are? If not, what are they made of.
I got a private message asking this and thought this would interest also the public:Why do you always want to muddy the water? You talk about someone putting kits together, you ask people to try this and that.QuoteIn your last video you mentioned how the coil were no different but what you are calling coils look to be magnets, is that what they are? If not, what are they made of.
These were all these litz wire coils put onto ferrite cores.
So no magnets, just AM radio ferrite cores.
I thought first that the ferrite cores Dr. Stiffler was using would be different, which
but my old ferrite cores I already had laying around
were the same...
It just depends only on the quality Q of the resonance of the LITZ coils.
They act like high quality Q ( low bandwidth) LC tank circuits at around 1.5 to 2Mhz.
Just a note to all. I am just making a comment on components used. As a matter of safety do not place an electrolytic capacitor rated under 250 volts across the high voltage side of the circuit. I ounce accidentally placed a 6v capacitor in a 9v circuit and it blew up like a fire cracker. Next the diodes in circuit are not rated to handle a 200v reverse voltage. They may last a while but at sometime are due to fail. A high voltage diode should be used if you plain on running your devices for very long periods. As a standard do not operate a component at or near it maximum. I try not to exceed 50% just for longevity.
I will not be making many more posting unless asked. Or I see something some may do that is dangerous.
people get there when they follow the instruction and use the right components.
Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.
Why do you always want to muddy the water? You talk about someone putting kits together, you ask people to try this and that.
Simply put the whole concept here is to be able like 'Amigo' and many other to get a working system so we can move from there. Yet you always want to change things, bring in new idea's and secret mails to further your point of view. I think you would best serve your viewers by not only asking them to do it correctly in the beginning and you follow by doing the same.
Every time you post this kind of stuff people think this is just something to throw together from the junk box, but are you ever so wrong. Stefan why can't YOU build one like 'Amigo', 'Ossie', 'Ben', 'Travis' etc., and them interject you new or special way (after you show yours works). Really should you insert idea's that are contrary until you really have a duplicate yourself????
So now we get all the negatives the whatnots and the you siders and the me siders. PLEASE stop with this, people get there when they follow the instruction and use the right components.
It should be obvious by now to most, that this circuit is another form of teslas radiant energy circuits. It was noted by tesla at many points that maximum efficiency power is noted when the dielectric in the condenser is stressed to near breaking point. Therefore, it may be more dangerous, but it is also much more efficient.
I figured to follow up on my yesterday's post about aluminium plates and such. They say picture is worth a thousand words, so...Yep! In this case, I'd say so..........KneeDeep
Unfortunately I must report that the effects present on the aluminium backed board are not there on plain vanilla one.
I'm not sure why is everyone obsessing with measuring things and calculating numbers.In the pursuit of scientific understanding, fortunately or unfortunately, there is a need for empirical recording and measurement.
Unfortunately I must report that the effects present on the aluminium backed board are not there on plain vanilla one.I noticed that all the LEDS were lit up O.K though. This could be a blessing in disguise! No HV and still all LEDS lit up?
The neon bulb does not light on the white vanilla board and so there are no HV effects or anything of that kind. That circuit seems to operate on ~2.06MHz here, while the one with the aluminium board half of that frequency (~1.09MHz).
I write (in some post) that 1 AAA battery can light up 50 LED for 1-2 hours, with HF converting of 1.5 V with some FET converter.
Try to measure your real output. It is important...
The ground wire of the RF generator is coupled also via a stray cap to the ground
lineof your breadboard (
The ground wire of the RF generator is NOT connected to anything. Do you see that in my video? THAT's where I am confused. Where is the current of the discharge and charge is going? from where and to where?
Oh dear some of you have really pi$$ed him off now as he has deleted his domains AND deleted the youtube vids! Either he has discovered something amazing that he wants to keep to himself
OR
MIB have told him to bugger off.
I hope the rest of you have mirrored the data and the videos in time. :P
An investor of any large some of money will not invest unless there is very positive proof of getting a return. It was people like EMdevices and me that were telling what he really had that ran him away. The first thing a scam artist will do when exposed is run for the hills. He was criticizing any and every effort tried to check for over unity saying that it will not work. Which brings up the question if you can not test by normal means then how can he claim OU. Since there is no way to test according to him.
MIB have told him to bugger off.
Maybe he was bought off by somebody ?
I think you ruined it. We only had to wait for Dr Stifler Youtube vid number 10 next week to see 100 LEDS running all by themselves with no cables or batteries attached anywhere:)Hum-mm that would be great if he could. But I think I will coin a new scientific phrase I will call it the "Christmas Tree Effect" this effect is when one bulb blows they all go out. So you have to check 100 LEDs to find the bad one. I will publish my formulas and sell papers on it. I think 5 LED's are plenty.
Now we are back to the dark ages.
Ta-da!Good on ya Zaydana - ;) I had backed up some of the info over the last 3-4 weeks, but not all of it.
btw, could anyone invalidate his maths and claims via real experimentation and rigorous test?Maybe some could but Stiffler said you can no test for cold electricity using conventional means. I seen on his site oscilloscopes, volt metres, etc.I seen no home made special testing devices. Where was he getting his numbers from and how?
I see a punch of guys complaining but no work of their own, good or bad. A few guys on the right track such as Stefan, Amigo, me and some other, but the noisest of all are just thin air. :P
Fausto.
ps: an old saying: show me your work and I will know who you are.
N. Tesla wrote that radio receiver take power from either but not fromThis is from:
radio station transmitter. The consumption power of transmitter is not
increasing when many receivers are in operate. This is the way for creation
of information in space-time that can be used for transformation it in power.
I'm sorry if this is going to sound scolding but I'm itching to write it...
The more I read here the more I realize that I should go look elsewhere for ideas and people willing to work on alternative energy. Many of you have exhibited orthodox signs of brainwashing by the establishment and just plain confined thinking inside the box. You keep obsessing about numbers, formulas, measurements, miliwatts and miliamps; while I keep writing how that's totally unimportant as is a distraction from where we are supposed to go, but alas...
A side story, did any one of you majored in math? I knew math well years ago, thankfully I have forgotten most of it, but what had stuck in my head is that you can "massage" anything into a proof (or disproof), depending on your goal. I remember one instance when at the end of a solution you had 1=2, which was a very clever trick we used to pass on in the early grammar school, and yet it was totally valid when looked from a certain point of view.
But let me read between my own lines: no amount of proof you want, expect, demand, require, hope for, etc, will be enough when it comes to subjects outside of orthodox scientific world. Someone will always say "Yes, it lights 100 LEDs, but can it light 200?". That's just how pathetic human beings are, partially because of their own fault, partially because of the parents and the society who have brought everyone up on the premise of scarcity and separation from everything that surrounds us. We constantly have to compete with each other because everything is in shortage. STOP!
For God's sake go read Bucky Fuller and his "ravings" about abundance, then come back with a fresh perspective on the World, and perhaps alternative energy in general.
I'll refer again to my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079) in case you have missed it, just so you know where I'm coming from/leading to. This talk about aluminium plates and RF engineering is just a clever ploy to keep us thinking in circles (a closed loop, hah). If you are unwilling to peek outside the box and if you are constantly going to loop back into what the orthodox science expects you to do, then please leave, but don't obstruct those few people who might think differently.
The search for alternative energy solution has nothing to do with measurements and numbers and everything to do with dreams and imagination. If you do not dare to dream then your place is elsewhere. If you are going to be the lackey to the orthodox scientific community then you are only serving a troll function in any alternative forum, for their (scholars of orthodox science) goal is to maintain the status quo, why else do you think they are called "orthodox".
Need I mention an example of mere 100 years ago when the Wright brothers officially re-discovered flight, probably being the laughing stock of the whole county for claiming a man can fly, prior to their maiden flight. They had a vision they followed through against those who had asked them if they've done their math on the aerodynamics (which did not even exist then, pun intended) disbelieving and downplaying their dream on every step.
I have just realized I'm rambling, it's late and I'm tired, so I'll cut it down else I feel could write volumes. If there's anything of importance that everyone here should read about alternative energy, in my opinion, by far and wide are Tesla's writings (and of those who studied them). He had done all the work for us 100 years ago, granted he did not spell it all out so there's some tinkering to be done on our own, but otherwise it is all there, scattered in his life's work.
Why is it so difficult to accept things from a century ago, treating them as outlandish, while embracing today's BS theories about quantum this and entanglement that as if they are axioms (in truth they are just distractions meant to suck the money out of people and produce no tangible and useful results, and yet people accept them as if they are law written in stone)?
No sky is too high and no dream is too silly, because mind has no boundaries. So set your mind free...please!
since no one will answer my questions above, I will:Say what??? Space-Time. EEKQuoteN. Tesla wrote that radio receiver take power from either but not fromThis is from:
radio station transmitter. The consumption power of transmitter is not
increasing when many receivers are in operate. This is the way for creation
of information in space-time that can be used for transformation it in power.
Alexander V. Frolov email: alex@frolov.spb.su
P. O. Box 37, St.-Petersburg, 193024, Russia
I still think RF will NOT produce the power necessary to run the LEDs. RF is only the EFFECT of it. It is somehow allowing the energy to come from some place else. RF will "amplify" the space-time deformation and allow the EFFECT (current and potential) to manifest in the little closed loop circuit of the LEDs so that they will be excited to the point of emitting light.
In my experiment when I connected the Func.Gen to an inverter connected to a battery, it was using so much X power but when the LEDs were lit (because of th correct frequency being set) the power usage went "DOWN" not up. Anyone can reproduce this. Dr. Stiffler is still right in his claim of "amplification".
I think we can create something that will "amplify" this EFFECT of the RF over any coil of "matter" that has intricic connection with ZPE (zero-point-energy or vaccum) such as an inductor. But if you only invest time and brain power.
Fausto.
Anyone to refute this?
I'm sorry if this is going to sound scolding but I'm itching to write it...
The more I read here the more I realize that I should go look elsewhere for ideas and people willing to work on alternative energy. Many of you have exhibited orthodox signs of brainwashing by the establishment and just plain confined thinking inside the box. You keep obsessing about numbers, formulas, measurements, miliwatts and miliamps; while I keep writing how that's totally unimportant as is a distraction from where we are supposed to go, but alas...
A side story, did any one of you majored in math? I knew math well years ago, thankfully I have forgotten most of it, but what had stuck in my head is that you can "massage" anything into a proof (or disproof), depending on your goal. I remember one instance when at the end of a solution you had 1=2, which was a very clever trick we used to pass on in the early grammar school, and yet it was totally valid when looked from a certain point of view.
and now the word is "resonance". So magical so simple so explainable and yet meaningless.If you apply a current to a wire or coil a magnetic field will build up then if you break the current an opposite field will build up and collapse and build up then collapse again each time in a diffrent direction with less energy at a rate dependant on inductance. For every action there is a like and oppsitate reaction so say your daughter is an electron on a swing when you give a push it will swing back and fourth. This back and fourth movement is the resonate frequency of the swing. But at resonance once you push the swing at the precise moment when the swing returns you push again. This will take less energy to keep the swing going than your original push. However if you step forward from your position where you were pushing say directly under the swing. When the swing returns it will most likely knock you down. Then if you stay there and keep tyring to push the swing you use very much energy and your daughter will not have a very good time. You are then out of resonance.
Can someone please, explain what resonance really is? I hear this as an explanation for the phenomena and the first answer was RF and now is resonance. Please. Explain it like my 1 year old daugther could understand.
Fausto.
They seek him high, they seek him low, where in the world did Dr Stiffler go ?
rustle rustle . .. scurry scurry ... nope .. no Stifflers here ... hmmmm
Amigo:
I can understand how you would be agitated at people seemingly not thinking outside of the box..........
However, if i'm not mistaken, what we are searching for is a way to produce power seemingly out of thin air............
So, when somebody claims they've built an OU machine, the first thing they want to know is if it could possibly used to build that black box. This is why so many people are asking for numbers - if we have a single number which proves to us beyond all doubt that this device has a COP > 1, then what does at matter what other people think, orthodox or not? We have our black box, and we're happy at that..........
Tesla obviously had a brilliant imagination, and huge dreams. However, he wasn't averse to numbers. Indeed, without numbers, he never would have stood a chance.
In short, we want to disprove their RF hypothesis with their own numbers, so that we can keep dreaming.
What really matters is the difference between the light emitted for a certain voltage/current signal with Dr. Stiffler's circuit, and the light emitted for the same voltage/current signal without it. ..........1
If this circuit has overunity as claimed, then i'd wager the key is that the LEDs are being powered by something new which we can't measure directly. However, knowing what amount of light the LEDs should emit without the new energy source allows us to indirectly measure how much energy is coming from the new source..........2
@Amigo - while you sound particularly averse to numbers, i'd say you'd be the prime candidate to try and make these measurements. You seem to have gotten pretty decent results, and if you could show that the LEDs are emitting light which isn't coming from the measured current * voltage, then it would go a long way to understanding what Tesla discovered a hundred years ago.........3
And if it turns out there is nothing and the numbers are all what current science predicts, then what the hell. At least we tried. And theres nothing stopping us from keeping on doing so............4
Regardless of Dr. Stiffler's reasons for taking down the web site and videos, I would still like to thank him for what he did share with us, as this took both time and effort.Hi All,
It's not easy being a trailblazer, and many have had their new discoveries misunderstood, mocked, ridiculed and endlessly questioned.
And just as there are plenty of people out there who would blow out your candle, just to make their own look a little brighter, there are people willing to help shield your flame.
The secret , as in football, is to ignore attempted tricks of distraction, and keep focused on the goal.
So to Dr. Stiffler, this may be a tad premature, but I would like to say thanks, and Merry Christmas!
I keep an eye on the list, Email with Dr. Stiffler each day with ideas, test, etc. My shock and surprise to see his site down, his videos missing from Youtube, etc. this morning.That was lucky, I saved the entire ce4 page on Monday night, so who wants a copy of the zipped up page with images (5Mb)?
Guys,
Here's a schematic of the simple experiment to light LEDs with one wire.
Notice the stray capacitance.
The beginner in electronics can't understand why you can conduct current with one wire, but it's because of this stray capacitance. Ask yourself why current flows across a parallel plate capacitor, there IS NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE PLATES. How can this happen? It's the influence of the electric fields and the charges that accumulate and how they repell like charges and attract opposite charges.
Now that is not the whole story, you realy need to understand EM fields and waves. A single wire has a capacitance per unit length and an inductance per unit length. It's a transmission line, and at certain frequencies, where the wavelength is just right it becomes a very effective ANTENNA.
So, if you tune to a resonant frequency, even though you have one wire, you will increase the current flow, and yes, the LED's will light up with very little current !!!
In Summary: POWER COMES FROM THE FREQUENCY GENERATOR
If it doesn't come from there, why don't you unplug and remove this extra useless electronic box and still keep those LED's lit LOL :)
EM
If you have build the 'Thomas' oscillator and used an NPN as specified, try the following.
1)Run your existing circuit. Pay special attention to the heat given off by the transistor, the current drain and the maximum number of LEDS you can drive.
Lets say for example you are using a 2N3904 NPN hfe >=195
Switch to a PNP that is comparable, lets say a 2N2907, same ~hfe (if not a 2907) then one with bandwidth as good as the 3904.
Be sure to adjust the polarity of any filter capacitors you may be using, insure you have properly switched the power supply polarity.
2)Run the new configuration, which should be the same except for changing to a PNP. Watch and note the heat dissipation from the transistor, note the brightness of the LEDS and how many more you could add.
So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???
Thanks for he less than informative response. So what? This is far from my point. But your response is irrelevant. If you have built the circuit and tried what I suggest then report your scientific finding, not a spec sheet response.If you have build the 'Thomas' oscillator and used an NPN as specified, try the following.
1)Run your existing circuit. Pay special attention to the heat given off by the transistor, the current drain and the maximum number of LEDS you can drive.
Lets say for example you are using a 2N3904 NPN hfe >=195
Switch to a PNP that is comparable, lets say a 2N2907, same ~hfe (if not a 2907) then one with bandwidth as good as the 3904.
Be sure to adjust the polarity of any filter capacitors you may be using, insure you have properly switched the power supply polarity.
2)Run the new configuration, which should be the same except for changing to a PNP. Watch and note the heat dissipation from the transistor, note the brightness of the LEDS and how many more you could add.
So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???
Thanks for asking.
A similar PNP transistor to the 2N3904 is the 2N3906. A 2N2907 is rated to handle 5 times more current than the 2N3904.
RStiffler,Lets see you have built a circuit and need to known how to obtain QUANTITATIVE data? Its called measurement. Measure your circuit, is it a circuit I spec or one of the others that have measured OU? If not then what are you talking about.
I like the circuits discussed here, and it's realy nice to see light. I appreciate all this QUALITATIVELY, but we need QUANTITATIVE analysis to prove if it's OU. If that's not the intent, then I guess we can continue to play with batteries and LEDs and make pretty light.
Now, I am convinced the power comes from the battery, signal source, etc.. Untill I see quantitative results, I can't change my opinion. Perhaps if I see a closed loop system without batteries then we won't need the quantitative results, maybe.
Have you observed anything unusual with the PNP instead of the NPN?
EM
Thanks for he less than informative response. So what? This is far from my point. But your response is irrelevant. If you have built the circuit and tried what I suggest then report your scientific finding, not a spec sheet response.If you have build the 'Thomas' oscillator and used an NPN as specified, try the following.
1)Run your existing circuit. Pay special attention to the heat given off by the transistor, the current drain and the maximum number of LEDS you can drive.
Lets say for example you are using a 2N3904 NPN hfe >=195
Switch to a PNP that is comparable, lets say a 2N2907, same ~hfe (if not a 2907) then one with bandwidth as good as the 3904.
Be sure to adjust the polarity of any filter capacitors you may be using, insure you have properly switched the power supply polarity.
2)Run the new configuration, which should be the same except for changing to a PNP. Watch and note the heat dissipation from the transistor, note the brightness of the LEDS and how many more you could add.
So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???
Thanks for asking.
A similar PNP transistor to the 2N3904 is the 2N3906. A 2N2907 is rated to handle 5 times more current than the 2N3904.
So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???
@DrZlowe7I do want to disprove him just have him prove his claims. If I just see senseable math from him that is all it will take. If he was not so arrogant I would just go away. I just do like arrogant people maybe a little personalty conflit going on here.
Clearly you want to disprove DrStiffler. In your case you have a store full of the cores and more than likely, the rest of the components.
It will take less than an hour to do the whole thing.
I look forward to your findings!
AM
So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???
*) telephone lines are operated with one grounded and one negative (resp. ground)
wire. It makes a difference if the none grounded wire is positive or
negative in respect to ground.
Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?
No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!
Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.
Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW
MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!
Very good Stiffler, not bad. So you're claiming OU after all.Your a very funny person...........
Now, how did you measure the Output Power.
1) How did you get the 3 Volt drop, from the Spec sheet? Not a good idea, it varies with the current.
2) How did you measure the current, [edit] Oh I see in the picture, never mind. I have to analyze it a bit...
You don't have to answer, you don't owe us anything LOL :)
EM
Maybe your using AC, I'm not.............Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?
No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!
Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.
Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW
MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!
What? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unity
Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?What Wattage = Volts X Current. Not Voltage drop X current. You say you are getting around 200 volts so 200 volts - voltage drop = 197 volts. 197 X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. Now because you are using AC to drive the LED's they are on 50% of time and off 50% of the time. So divide your results buy 2 = 847mw You now have a loss 89mw. Not over but under unity.
No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!
Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.
Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW
MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW
MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!
You do not call RF AC. The RF is rectified buy diodes pulsating DC still on 50% off 50%. If you put the capacitor back in to produce DC then why jump on others who wanted to do this saying it will not give accurate results. My last post got posted twice my computer gave an error message so I re wrote it and sent it again. SorryMaybe your using AC, I'm not.............Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?
No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!
Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.
Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW
MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!
What? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unity
Well, it looks good, I like what I'm seeing, my only doubt is the 3V assumption (or is it)Never mind the 3 volt voltage drop. 3 X .0086 still does not equal over 1 watt.
I can see the 10 uF cap, so it shouldn't be hard to measure the DC voltage on it and multiply by the current.
EM
Everyone , just STOP
Some of you are making silly comments and apparently don't know much about electronics. It's wise not to post and just watch. You annoy me and Dr Stiffler. We are trying to carry on an intelligent converstion here.
Dr Stiffler, I agree with you on energy. I hold the same views. When I say OU I mean to our small "apparently" closed system or circuit. Energy will come from somewhere, can not be created or distroyed.
I hope you answer my one question: Is the 3 Volt drop per diode an assumption or not?
EM
Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.Not bashing you only question you but your own photo's show the resistor is in series with all the other LED's you are not measuring the current through 1 LED but the total used buy them all. So do not multiply .0086 X 52 to figure wattage. Am I the only one that really looks at these things.
NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!
You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.
But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.
SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?
So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.
Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.
I'll be back.
Dr. Stiffler wrote: -
"Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.
Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW
MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!"
I'm a bit confused here. The meter is showing 8.6V not 8.6mA.
Hoppy
Get a better life.........Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.Not bashing you only question you but your own photo's show the resistor is in series with all the other LED's you are not measuring the current through 1 LED but the total used buy them all. So do not multiply .0086 X 52 to figure wattage. Am I the only one that really looks at these things.
NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!
You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.
But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.
SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?
So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.
Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.
I'll be back.
Not calming OU you have stated time and time again "I have OU"
@EMdevices
Look closely at the photos you will see the resistor is not across only one LED but is in series with them all.
Get a better life.........Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.Not bashing you only question you but your own photo's show the resistor is in series with all the other LED's you are not measuring the current through 1 LED but the total used buy them all. So do not multiply .0086 X 52 to figure wattage. Am I the only one that really looks at these things.
NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!
You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.
But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.
SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?
So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.
Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.
I'll be back.
Not calming OU you have stated time and time again "I have OU"
@EMdevices
Look closely at the photos you will see the resistor is not across only one LED but is in series with them all.
So you can not refute what I am saying. I thought you said you would come wright back at me. Is the resistor not in series with all the other LEDs. I just pointed out what I thought was in error. The capacitor will produce DC you are correct you are measuring DC.Get a better life.........Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.Not bashing you only question you but your own photo's show the resistor is in series with all the other LED's you are not measuring the current through 1 LED but the total used buy them all. So do not multiply .0086 X 52 to figure wattage. Am I the only one that really looks at these things.
NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!
You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.
But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.
SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?
So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.
Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.
I'll be back.
Not calming OU you have stated time and time again "I have OU"
@EMdevices
Look closely at the photos you will see the resistor is not across only one LED but is in series with them all.
Ok, thank you, then that's encouraging. Assumptions are nothing bad as long as they're applicable and reasonable.I have and will explain;
The break even point for OU in this case would be:
Vdiode = 0.936 watts / (8.6 mA x 52) = 2.09
So you're assumption is well above this breakeven voltage drop / diode. I would say you have something significant.
But to be sure, I would measure the DC voltage at the 10 uF capacitor. If there is quite an AC ripple on it, I would filter the heck out of it with ferrites and include another capacitor if I have to.
In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there. I'm not insinuating your assumptions are not correct, don't missunderstand, I'm just trying to be carefull when it comes to excess energy measurements. I made claims like this before and I later retracted. Hopefully you won't have too. I hope not.
EM
Ok, thank you, then that's encouraging. Assumptions are nothing bad as long as they're applicable and reasonable.His LED's are connected in series. If I have 200 volts and place say 20 LED's in series and for math purposes let say each LED has a voltage drop of 2 volts. The voltage drop only changes the 200 volts to now 160 volts for doing equations. So we now have 160 volts with .0086 current going through the all the LED's remember series here. Again Wattage is the total voltage 160 volts X .0086 total current . Again look close at his pictures the resistor is checking total current through all the LED's as the LED's and resistor are in series. If the LED's were parallel as you drew in your versions of the schematic then you would multiply current X 52.
The break even point for OU in this case would be:
Vdiode = 0.936 watts / (8.6 mA x 52) = 2.09
So you're assumption is well above this breakeven voltage drop / diode. I would say you have something significant.
But to be sure, I would measure the DC voltage at the 10 uF capacitor. If there is quite an AC ripple on it, I would filter the heck out of it with ferrites and include another capacitor if I have to.
In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there. I'm not insinuating your assumptions are not correct, don't missunderstand, I'm just trying to be carefull when it comes to excess energy measurements. I made claims like this before and I later retracted. Hopefully you won't have too. I hope not.
EM
DRZ, are you on another wavelegth?EXCELLENT!
I can see what he is doing clearly and I understand. I suggest you study the drawings a bit and make yourself a circuit after them.
You might be confused about series and parallel.
He has the LED's in SERIES. So if each has an assumed 3 Volts drop across them how much of a voltage drop will 52 SERIES connected diodes have?
Let's do the math 3 + 3 + 3 + ....+ 3 +3 .... + 3 = 52 x 3 = 156 Volts Got it?
Now the current running through all the diodes is 8.6 mA, Got it?
So Power out is 156 Volts x 8.6 mA = 1.34 watts Got it?
This will be the last time I will walk you by the hand. And this goes for anybody else that's building up courage and joining in the perceived bashing of Dr Stiffler. It's one thing to ask intelligent questions and another to be plain silly.
EM
...So Fritz, why don't you take three minutes and get back to us? I have my path charted and it does not include personal requests. I think I must have a great amount of faith in myself to go through this, so help out here and get us a few measurements if your not comfortable????
Measuring with 100Ohm series resistor would give a nice voltage
reading for our load current. The additional 860mV wont harm the
result because of the current source role of the circuit at this position.
Adding beads at the 10u cap and additional 470n ceramics would give
me the feeling of nice DC loop here.
Calculating the output power as voltage on 10u Cap (- voltage reading on
series shunt) * load current would give me a comfortable feeling.
Measuring the exact resistance of the load shunt with an LCR meter is
a 3 second effort. Same as measuring the load/voltage from the supply
with some trustworthy instrument.
So what is the exact efficency ration of the circuit ?????
DRZ, are you on another wavelegth?I did not see this post. You inserted it before my last post. Or I would have not sent you a message.
I can see what he is doing clearly and I understand. I suggest you study the drawings a bit and make yourself a circuit after them.
You might be confused about series and parallel.
He has the LED's in SERIES. So if each has an assumed 3 Volts drop across them how much of a voltage drop will 52 SERIES connected diodes have?
Let's do the math 3 + 3 + 3 + ....+ 3 +3 .... + 3 = 52 x 3 = 156 Volts Got it?
Now the current running through all the diodes is 8.6 mA, Got it?
So Power out is 156 Volts x 8.6 mA = 1.34 watts Got it?
This will be the last time I will walk you by the hand. And this goes for anybody else that's building up courage and joining in the perceived bashing of Dr Stiffler. It's one thing to ask intelligent questions and another to be plain silly.
EM
Ok, thank you, then that's encouraging. Assumptions are nothing bad as long as they're applicable and reasonable.**
The break even point for OU in this case would be:
Vdiode = 0.936 watts / (8.6 mA x 52) = 2.09 Volts
So you're assumption is well above this breakeven voltage drop / diode. I would say you have something significant.
But to be sure, I would measure the DC voltage at the 10 uF capacitor. If there is quite an AC ripple on it, I would filter the heck out of it with ferrites and include another capacitor if I have to.
In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there. I'm not insinuating your assumptions are not correct, don't missunderstand, I'm just trying to be carefull when it comes to excess energy measurements. I made claims like this before and I later retracted. Hopefully you won't have too. I hope not.
EM
So Fritz, why don't you take three minutes and get back to us? I have my path charted and it does not include personal requests. I think I must have a great amount of faith in myself to go through this, so help out here and get us a few measurements if your not comfortable????
I wonder if the LEDs can be replaced with an equivalent resistor.LEDS, sometime in the hopefully near future with equipment better than mine for thermal measurement will confirm or deny my meager observation. But if you look at www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp at the bottom of the page, you may see what I am talking about and I will not bother to go further than to state that the LEDS appear to be "Thermal Neutral".
assuming 150 Volts across the 10 uF cap. Then we calculate R :
R = 150 volts / 8.6 mA = 17.4 K ohm
If this gives the same results, supper, if not, it might be some LED dynamics that we might not fully understand.
Can you draw a detailed schematic of your circuit? Is it the basic Thomas oscillator you had on your web page?
EM
@DrStiffler,
Please can you describe what you are showing in the first picture in your document.
I guess this is the philosophy behind your thinking.
Regards
AM
I am sorry. Instead of reasoning on your math I made wrong conclusions. Some times my mouth goes faster than my brain when I think I am wright. I become more interested in proving my point. Maybe human nature or at least mine. You did try to explain your results to me and thanks. It is good however you seem a little more open now with your discussions.Ok, thank you, then that's encouraging. Assumptions are nothing bad as long as they're applicable and reasonable.**
The break even point for OU in this case would be:
Vdiode = 0.936 watts / (8.6 mA x 52) = 2.09 Volts
So you're assumption is well above this breakeven voltage drop / diode. I would say you have something significant.
But to be sure, I would measure the DC voltage at the 10 uF capacitor. If there is quite an AC ripple on it, I would filter the heck out of it with ferrites and include another capacitor if I have to.
In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there. I'm not insinuating your assumptions are not correct, don't missunderstand, I'm just trying to be carefull when it comes to excess energy measurements. I made claims like this before and I later retracted. Hopefully you won't have too. I hope not.
EM
In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there.
Agree, sorry I'm not where I can pull up the information, but there exist on the web a couple of papers on LEDS and frequency response. Of the two I am thinking of they are 100% opposed. One states that the eye sees a brighter LED when it is excited by RF vs. DC. The other paper says that is false, that as the frequency goes up it approaches DC closer, therefore DC will produce the maximum brightness.
I have worked with Red LEDS that will glow with currents I can not measure and flashed white LEDS from picking up 60Hz AC on a long wire. So indeed you have a valid point. Although you would be asking me to ignore my understanding and trust for my instrumentation much the same as I am asking an academic to look out of the box at my work. I feel comfortable with my measurements, even though there most likely exists 500k others that do not. So be it, what can one do?
This one!
The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.This one!
Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish 'SEC'
Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.
Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.
Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
My blue LEDs have voltage drop of around 2.4 Volts per LED.Stefan!
I get 24 Volts Pure DC at my 22 uF cap with no Rple at all. But my current is much smaller, less than 1 mA.
But I will built up now a better oscillator and post the results soon.
Have also to use the uptransforming voltage effect of the 2 coils on the ferrite core, so I will get a higher voltage on the LED chain...
By the way, 2.8 Volts drop on a white LED sounds right to me, so I trust in Ron?s measurements.
You already have almost pure DC on the LED chain after the 2 AP diodes also without a big cap measured with my scope, so the LEDs and the connector board capacitance seems to be enough stray capacitance for this.
Regards, Stefan.
Copyright (c) 2007 Stiffler Scientific. All rights reserved.The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.This one!
Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish 'SEC'
Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.
Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.
Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
I just said I never noticed it. And said I was Sorry for not. The schematic was only resent to person who posted it. It is your sarcastic replies that ticked me of at you in first place. Can you not just take an I am sorry. Resending copyrighted material back to original sender is not in violation of the law. I am tyring to apologize . And make up.Copyright (c) 2007 Stiffler Scientific. All rights reserved.The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.This one!
Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish 'SEC'
Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.
Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.
Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
Copying of this material is strictly forbidden.
Violation of these Copyrights will be enforced.
Don't know how much clearer this can be?
I just said I never noticed it. And said I was Sorry for not. The schematic was only resent to person who posted it. It is your sarcastic replies that ticked me of at you in first place. Can you not just take an I am sorry. Resending copyrighted material back to original sender is not in violation of the law. I am tyring to apologize . And make up.Copyright (c) 2007 Stiffler Scientific. All rights reserved.The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.This one!
Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish 'SEC'
Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.
Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.
Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
Copying of this material is strictly forbidden.
Violation of these Copyrights will be enforced.
Don't know how much clearer this can be?
No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!
Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.
Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW
MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!
OK I am sorry again. We keep getting our wires crossed. No pun intended. However I thought you were replying to me as I was quoted. Buy the way the schematic I was referring to is posted on posting page 36. I just thought you were commenting to me. After my groveling and apologizing the statement I though was a rude reply. Again Sorry, Sorry. I will not be bothering you anymore. As I kind of had a vendetta against you I jess I just get irritated to easy. Good luck with your research I wish you the best.I just said I never noticed it. And said I was Sorry for not. The schematic was only resent to person who posted it. It is your sarcastic replies that ticked me of at you in first place. Can you not just take an I am sorry. Resending copyrighted material back to original sender is not in violation of the law. I am tyring to apologize . And make up.Copyright (c) 2007 Stiffler Scientific. All rights reserved.The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.This one!
Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish 'SEC'
Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.
Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.
Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
Copying of this material is strictly forbidden.
Violation of these Copyrights will be enforced.
Don't know how much clearer this can be?
By all means you apology is accepted. Strange though as it turns out I was not even referring to you on this issue, it was the image of SEC that AM posted. So you must have got it confused and I followed.
**It is your sarcastic replies
I treat how I'm treated. Respect get respect does it not, yet who starts first?
It is clearly evident that very few people are really interested in dropping the "old ways" in favour of something radically new. You cling to the old education and experience and it's as sad as Edison clinging to the DC power grid system at the overwhelming superiority of the AC. Ironically though, Tesla himself dropped the AC in favour of pulsed DC - now how's that for a twist. Perhaps something happens here, too (but I'm not holding my breath).
What we need is more women in here because they will bring the intuition - something that many men apparently lack, or are unwilling (too proud or plain dumb and ignorant) to explore/utilize.
Fire at will...
Well if you want more women, Stefan will have to offer more diverse shopping. Right now it's just magnet toys and stuff. From my experience with women, they are not interested in that.I see a new face here, welcome aboard !
But back to what you said, could you elaborate on the "radically new" part? What do you propose?
@ Dr StifflerGreat idea, except if I am near correct it is not the mounting of components that has presented the primary hold back. At my site you can see a simple coil and LED on a cardboard surface. It seems the coil has from the start become the hangup. People don't want to try and obtain the correct one, or they want to use something they have or wind a coil on some obscure ferrite.
In the hopes of fostering reproducibility, I have created a printed circuit board artwork file based on your Thomas Oscillator circuit. With your approval, I would like to release the file to members of this forum, preferably, from your web site. I will be happy to mark the design with any copyright information you think is appropriate. I have already marked it for "non commercial use only" Just let me know if, and where to send the file.
This PCB file could be emailed to one of many On-Line board fabricators like www.expresspcb.com, or for people who like to make their own, the file can be laser printed onto special ink jet paper, and ironed directly onto a copper clad board. Also, the design is not set in stone, so based on inputs from yourself and forum members, I will be willing to make various edits and changes as time permits.
Hi Dr. Stiffler,I wonder if the LEDs can be replaced with an equivalent resistor.LEDS, sometime in the hopefully near future with equipment better than mine for thermal measurement will confirm or deny my meager observation. But if you look at www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp at the bottom of the page, you may see what I am talking about and I will not bother to go further than to state that the LEDS appear to be "Thermal Neutral".
assuming 150 Volts across the 10 uF cap. Then we calculate R :
R = 150 volts / 8.6 mA = 17.4 K ohm
If this gives the same results, supper, if not, it might be some LED dynamics that we might not fully understand.
Can you draw a detailed schematic of your circuit? Is it the basic Thomas oscillator you had on your web page?
EM
A resistor can be connected across the circuit in place of the LEDS and the measurements are very favorable and equivalent heat is evident. There is another approach that I worked on before leaving for the holidays, yet there is an issue of will the person making the suggestion accept the credit, as I can not and can not discuss it until this is resolved. But a better method than the resistor does exist where the out come is significant.
The osc. is the 'Thomas' osc and it uses a PN200 transistor. There is a startup resistor of 220K from the collector to the base. The collector end of the standard coil arrangement is coupled to the base through a 56pF Silver Mica. Thats it except for the standard power rail decoupling.
CAUTION! Every one should use care with these circuits, they can bite and STILL will for no reason burn out significant numbers of LEDS. When using filter caps across the Plug, never remove or add or break the series chain until you have carefully removed the capacitor and discharged it. Other wise bye, bye LEDS.
ATTENTION ALL!
These circuits have been on circuit boards for some 5 days now, in various configurations and work BETTER than on the proto-board with all its stray capacity.
**If you can not get to my web sites its because their DNS was lost when they were shut down by mistake. The pointer returned to the host. DNS replication can take up to 72 hours world wide.
@utilitarian:There is NO reason why someone could explain this in a slightly modified conventional way. Would be similar to conventional physics and QM, one leaves off and the other picks up. My only observation on explaining it in conventional theory and law is that to do that 'How would you accept SEC', COP isn't really the right thing to use here, but yoiu did so lets use it. How do you in convention explain COP>1. Currently the only way is to say I and many others are wrong in our observations?
There are quite a few reasons that doing that isn't quite as good idea as it initially seems.
For a start, connecting the output wires to the input wires would be closing the circuit, which from my limited understanding is a Bad Thing (tm) with these sorts of alternative energy circuits. Closing the circuit, in Tom Bearden's words, "Kills the dipole".
Secondly, because of the efficiency of components in the circuit, this device would need to have a COP much higher than just 1 to be able to use something like a solar panel to close the circuit. From the numbers that Dr. Stiffler recently posted, the circuit does have a COP > 1, but would likely not be self powering.
And lastly, and I could be wrong on this one, even if closing the circuit wasn't an inherently bad idea with this type of claim, its not as simple as just connecting the output wires to the input wires. There is quite a bit of extra circuitry you need to get it working.
This may be a bit hypocritical since I haven't got my coils yet and thus can't replicate it myself, but I really urge people to stop making suggestions for changing the circuit unless they have built it themselves. It really kills the conversation.
@Dr. Stiffler:
I must ask your opinion on asking for numbers, measurements, etc. Amigo, who seems to have made a lot of progress, seems fairly insistent that we drop the "Old Ways". Now, I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), but it seems to me that you don't have a problem with using numbers and equations, so long as they agree with your observations? The key being that traditionally people would claim that something is impossible if the numbers are too far removed from predictions, but you'd rather state that the numbers are wrong, and what is in front of you is obviously correct?
Forgive me if it sounds like an attack, but really all I'm trying to do is figure out what is acceptable use of current theories, and what is going to get people riled up. Obviously existing models must have some merit under certain situations, or we wouldn't have the internet to discuss these things. But I think we can all agree these models are not perfect.
@Dr. Stiffler:
I must ask your opinion on asking for numbers, measurements, etc. Amigo, who seems to have made a lot of progress, seems fairly insistent that we drop the "Old Ways". Now, I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), but it seems to me that you don't have a problem with using numbers and equations, so long as they agree with your observations? The key being that traditionally people would claim that something is impossible if the numbers are too far removed from predictions, but you'd rather state that the numbers are wrong, and what is in front of you is obviously correct?
What? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unityMaybe your using AC, I'm not.............
My ultimate goal is to bring humanity a way out of the chains they have been bonded by our "Overlords", and slavery they have endured for many generations, because our purpose here is not to eat, shit, breed, work and pay taxes. Existence is much richer than that and there is so much more beyond anyone could possibly think of. We just need to imagine, that's all...but how do you do that when you are constantly distracted with menial things in your life. Granted some people seem to take pleasure in them but that's because they do not know any better.
So if it's going to be a black box that has a power plug and does some "kind of magic", well so be it. Most of 6.6 billion people will not care what's inside it, as long as that box is in balance with the Nature providing clean, renewable, reusable alternative source of power. Then Mr. Scientist can go ahead and rip it up and re-wire it and do all kinds of measurements and write numbers down to disprove it...
I thought most of you have seen Bedini's documentaries, where the man himself talks about "scientists" coming to his lab to check his discoveries out and re-wiring them because they are *clearly* wired incorrectly. I believe it's time we re-wire our brains away from the non-sense conventional science had thought us and open ourselves to many possibilities above and beyond.
You are correct. I well know about varying DC verses AC. However Dr Stiffler and EMdevices set me straight. I was so intense on disproving the math that I did not really look at it. And like I said my mouth was running faster than my brain. I was born in West Virgina the law of the feud rules there. I went to school with Hatfields and the McCoys lived on the other side of the mountain. The rule was ounce an enemy always an enemy. I try to fight up bringing and genetics as much as possible when they a negative but some times I just go off. I have apologized to Dr. Stiffler for this. I hope he knows it was not easy and will forgive me. As I was accusing him very type of deception I could think of. This is almost unforgivable but I hope he has a big HEART.@DrZLowe7 - I worked in the telecommunications industry for 20 years. It is a network which is inherently DC, and makes use of varying DC and AC signal superimposition.QuoteWhat? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unityMaybe your using AC, I'm not.............
Do not confuse VARYING DC with AC. Although varying DC signals have all the qualities of an AC one, they have one parameter which true AC does not. They have a DC offset bias. It may not seem important, but it is exremely important! Varying DC only has a varying Voltage component vector, i.e direction. The current component vector doesn't change direction, only the amount or "intensity" of the current varies.
You need a transformer to make the final shift from varying DC to AC.
This is why Stifflers original diagrams are so unique, and made me take notice. In his earlier diagrams, the primary of the transformer was only connected at one end. The primary coil current would have been miniscule in such an open circuit condition.
Now there is nothing unusual about an open ended HV secondary, but what is unusual is that the O/P from the secondary took place at all when the primary current could only be achieved by capacitive leakage through the air. With such a weak primary coil interface, the AC coupling produced by the core, even at RF, would be expected to be miniscule. But very bright lights suggested otherwise!
I like bright lights :D
Cheers all
Guys,
Here's a schematic of the simple experiment to light LEDs with one wire.
Notice the stray capacitance.
The beginner in electronics can't understand why you can conduct current with one wire, but it's because of this stray capacitance. Ask yourself why current flows across a parallel plate capacitor, there IS NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE PLATES. How can this happen? It's the influence of the electric fields and the charges that accumulate and how they repell like charges and attract opposite charges.
Now that is not the whole story, you realy need to understand EM fields and waves. A single wire has a capacitance per unit length and an inductance per unit length. It's a transmission line, and at certain frequencies, where the wavelength is just right it becomes a very effective ANTENNA.
So, if you tune to a resonant frequency, even though you have one wire, you will increase the current flow, and yes, the LED's will light up with very little current !!!
In Summary: POWER COMES FROM THE FREQUENCY GENERATOR
If it doesn't come from there, why don't you unplug and remove this extra useless electronic box and still keep those LED's lit LOL :)
EM
@utilitarian:
There are quite a few reasons that doing that isn't quite as good idea as it initially seems.
For a start, connecting the output wires to the input wires would be closing the circuit, which from my limited understanding is a Bad Thing (tm) with these sorts of alternative energy circuits. Closing the circuit, in Tom Bearden's words, "Kills the dipole".
Ok Fausto, take a look at the diagram.
After giving it some thought, I think the SERIES capacitance of the diodes and the SERIES inductance of the wire are the key players in the resonance.
The stray capacitance to ground from the person at the other end is also key. Thinking in terms of antennas, we can load the top of the antennas with a larger sphere then the diameter, to tune the antenna, or tesla coils have top hats. Anyway, it's just a place where the currents can flow into with little resistance. That's what you are doing by touching the wire or by hooking up the spool of wire to it, you're providing a low impedance SINK for the current. Hope this helps.
EM
PN100 is the NPN, PN200 is a PNP...............
(remember the model is approximate. There is what is know as distributed parameters, like in that link you posted on transmission lines, and that's what the transmission lines are. However here we're operating at sub wavelengths so we don't have to invoke reflection coefficients just yet, but we're at high enough frequencies where interesting resonances can occur, resonances which we didn't consider at lower frequencies)
Dear Non-Classical Researchers,[b
Here is an example of a Thomas Driver operating 65 (out of 92 avaliable) very old LED's that have been soldered to a Radio Shack circuit board (Cat No. 276-170) elevated a full 3" above the bread board. The Ferrite Antenna Loop stick is elevated 1.25" above the bread board as well. The switching transistor is a 2N4101 (it gets hot). Feedback capacitor is Silver Mica 56pf. Starting Resistor is 220K. The "primary" winding is 9 turns of #24 AWG magnet wire. Using a 12 volt 6.2 Ahr Gel Battery decoupled with 1.0, 0.1, and .01uF poly capacitors. AV diodes are IN4148. Analog DC supply current 70 mA. (Take that reading with a grain of salt since this is a DC meter - RF meter coming) The 190pF collector to ground bybass capacitor has been omitted.
No claims of OU or effective operating power levels are made here, just that this circuit will illuminate several LED's without the complication of parasitic capacitance introduced by the bread board. Such was not the case with my early experiments with this technology just a few weeks ago. Apparently the Thomas Driver can provide a power level sufficient enough to swamp the observable effects of the distributed capacitance that were experianced in the past.
Submitted for your consideration,
Spokane1
...(remember the model is approximate. There is what is know as distributed parameters, like in that link you posted on transmission lines, and that's what the transmission lines are. However here we're operating at sub wavelengths so we don't have to invoke reflection coefficients just yet, but we're at high enough frequencies where interesting resonances can occur, resonances which we didn't consider at lower frequencies)Thank you so much EMdevices. Now I know I am talking to the right "mind". That is exactly what I thought is happening with my experiment. Some resonance because of stray capacitance in ONLY one wire and the spoll (or my body) is the sink where the electrons can flow momentarily because of the diapole generated by the FuncGen. I do not need to see the other "wire" anywhere, one wire is all that is necessary because of the high frequency being so fast allowing the electrons to move just enough trough the LEDs to light them up.
As promised, I have now created a printed circuit drawing for the Thomas oscillator that you can use for your own NON COMMERCIAL USE.Do you plan to sell any of those PC boards......I sure would buy one if you did..I would prefer that the top of the 220K resistor went to the collector instead of + of power supply (if my old eyes are right) but not a problem to modify it that way....Ben K4ZEP
This has not yet been reviewed, so if you are timid, do not build this unless you are willing to make your own modifications, at least until revision 1.
For those of you experienced with PCB layouts, please take a look, and let me know if you spot any problems, missing traces etc.
All artwork and an explanation document are contained in the file ThomasPCB.zip (attached)
Enjoy,
DerrickA
P.S. The drawing below will probably show up about twice the size of the actual circuit board. (2X) This board can fit up to 80 LED's (yellow circles).
@Spokane1 and @All
If you can not hold one end of a neon and touch the other to the input of the AV Plug, SEC conditions is not possible. If this HV is not present and interface is not established.
Both sides of the neon will light at the Plug input. Then when touched to the output of each diode, alternate neon electrodes will light to match polarity.
Thanks....
Will someone please post URL for ordering coils? I can not find it in the over 60 pages of thread. Thanks.
Will someone please post URL for ordering coils? I can not find it in the over 60 pages of thread. Thanks.This is what I bought and worked. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=150089628196
@RStifflerHi Derick,
Thanks for letting me know about Ben K4ZEP 's important role in all this, and your circuit modification. I will be happy to draw a custom version of the PCB art layout for Ben, but first, I would need to obtain a copy of 'Thomas' schematic that he would be referring to. As stated in a previous post, my goal is to foster reproducibility, so while I do want to limit the number of circuit versions floating around in this forum, I am willing to make versions that deliver the best results, and (or) offer the most promising avenues of exploration to key members, of course, as time permits.
DerrickA
P.S. I miss your YouTube videos! will they be reposted?
UPDATE: Well, I tried another radio and the same thing happens.
Okay, this is now important.Very good Stefan, now you are getting there, note my comments following to all that may work out a little better for you coupling capacities.
Watch my new video over here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj299cuYGeg
I am using a bit different circuit than the Ben Thomas
circuit.
I have a 1 nF cap at the collector of the BC555 C , which goes to the first Litz coil
on the core.
My coupling to the base of the BC 555 C was made via laying just
a trimmer cap onto the core, it is only connected to the base, not anywhere else,
so this just couples via some pF stray capacitance to the coils on the core.
The basis was pulled up via 330 Kohm to +12 Volt supply.
I will now modify my circuit to the real Ben Thomas circuit and try to see,
if it will also work this way and what waveforms I will get then...
Regards, Stefan.
Hi Dr. Stiffler, Yes I used a twisted cap to neutralize a old transmitter output stage (this goes way back!!!!! My ol 6146 homebuilt transmitter if I remember correctly), just don't cut too much off as you can't put it back. I can't believe all the progress being made and the excellent modifications to the basic design! It is just fun to watch the goings on......I should have gone on vacation sooner!!!! It would seem that a high pass filter to pass the 3rd harmonic and uncouple the base frequency might be a help here, just thinking out loud. There is a heck of a lot going on in/around this circuit more than I understand!Okay, this is now important.Very good Stefan, now you are getting there, note my comments following to all that may work out a little better for you coupling capacities.
Watch my new video over here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj299cuYGeg
I am using a bit different circuit than the Ben Thomas
circuit.
I have a 1 nF cap at the collector of the BC555 C , which goes to the first Litz coil
on the core.
My coupling to the base of the BC 555 C was made via laying just
a trimmer cap onto the core, it is only connected to the base, not anywhere else,
so this just couples via some pF stray capacitance to the coils on the core.
The basis was pulled up via 330 Kohm to +12 Volt supply.
I will now modify my circuit to the real Ben Thomas circuit and try to see,
if it will also work this way and what waveforms I will get then...
Regards, Stefan.
@All
In the old days (Hi Ben!) we used twisted pair insulated wire for small feed back capacities. If you want something below 10pf it is easy to tightly twist up two wires and at first stretch it in a vertical direction in the air. You adjust by cutting off wire (When your circuit is Off). It is a fast and dirty way to make some tests and you will not have to worry about parts shifting and changing your coupling.
Of course a hand full of trimmer caps is ideal, yet down the road when we start to tie the circuit back into itself you may not need them. So if your working with small capacities, you can keep the cost and frustration down with this simple yet effective old trick.
I said in my last video the wrong oscillation frequency.Stefan;
It was not around 300 to 500Khz but 5 times higher,
asI forgot, that I had my 5x stretch knob engadged !
Sorry, so my oscillation frequency was really in the range of about 1.5 to 2.5 Mhz.
Hope this helps.
As I see, that Dr. Stiffler now also uses 2.45 Mhz ,
I maybe be at the right track ! ;)
Also my neon bulb lights now up very much more at the
litz coils !
Regards, Stefan.
Dear Dr. Stiffler and Fellow Associates,I have this problem of thinking what I say everyone will understand and I sometimes am to short on my statements and leave out meaningful info.
I'm half way there with the neon lamp test. As you can see from the photo the lamp will brightly illuminate both internal electrodes. But when testing for the single electrode illumination I get zip when using the large GE D2A. Now if I switch to a smaller 4mm Red/Orange device then I get both electrodes illuminated on the single wire side of the AV plug. I then get a dim light on one electrode from the positive diode and then both electrodes are active on the negative side of the other AV diode. Perhaps my IN4148's are unable to deal with the approximate 300 V generated. I need to upgrade them as well as the switching transistor.
When I touch the GE 2DA to the single wire side of the AV plug my LED's drop to about 1/4 brilliance and the relative current drawn from the battery drops 25%. I'm holding the neon lamp with an insulated pair of electronic pliers. This circuit is certainly sensitive to load changes.
I'm still searching through my solid state collection for a better switching transistor. By Monday I'll just order the best I can find at Moser or Digi Key. The PN100 transistor recommended by KZEP4 only has a VCE of 40 volts. This circuit has exceeded that parameter already and is running at 60V. I'm sure a faster transistor with a higher gain will push that voltage even higher. It appears that the requirements of this circuit are the best of all worlds. High Gain, High Frequency Response (gain bandwidth product), VCE in excess of 200V and an Ic on the order of an Amp. Then when we get to that power level we will need an even bigger transistor. I suppose the maximum power imit for this circuit will be reached with the maximum useful saturation current of the Ferrite coil assembly.
The proposal of using a "Tickler" coil on one end of the Ferrite core to observe what is happening there is a most excellent idea. I shall employ that method shortly.
Thank you for your useful comments, May the experiments proceed.
Spokane1
Hi Dr. Stiffler,Dear Dr. Stiffler and Fellow Associates,I have this problem of thinking what I say everyone will understand and I sometimes am to short on my statements and leave out meaningful info.
I'm half way there with the neon lamp test. As you can see from the photo the lamp will brightly illuminate both internal electrodes. But when testing for the single electrode illumination I get zip when using the large GE D2A. Now if I switch to a smaller 4mm Red/Orange device then I get both electrodes illuminated on the single wire side of the AV plug. I then get a dim light on one electrode from the positive diode and then both electrodes are active on the negative side of the other AV diode. Perhaps my IN4148's are unable to deal with the approximate 300 V generated. I need to upgrade them as well as the switching transistor.
When I touch the GE 2DA to the single wire side of the AV plug my LED's drop to about 1/4 brilliance and the relative current drawn from the battery drops 25%. I'm holding the neon lamp with an insulated pair of electronic pliers. This circuit is certainly sensitive to load changes.
I'm still searching through my solid state collection for a better switching transistor. By Monday I'll just order the best I can find at Moser or Digi Key. The PN100 transistor recommended by KZEP4 only has a VCE of 40 volts. This circuit has exceeded that parameter already and is running at 60V. I'm sure a faster transistor with a higher gain will push that voltage even higher. It appears that the requirements of this circuit are the best of all worlds. High Gain, High Frequency Response (gain bandwidth product), VCE in excess of 200V and an Ic on the order of an Amp. Then when we get to that power level we will need an even bigger transistor. I suppose the maximum power imit for this circuit will be reached with the maximum useful saturation current of the Ferrite coil assembly.
The proposal of using a "Tickler" coil on one end of the Ferrite core to observe what is happening there is a most excellent idea. I shall employ that method shortly.
Thank you for your useful comments, May the experiments proceed.
Spokane1
The neon test is just like you did it and Yes if you have LEDS running when you perform it, they should dim. See the post I made to Stefan in regards to SEC and how I envision it to work in a basic overview. What is happening is that you are increasing the circuit coupling to the environment and reducing the Spacial Energy Transfer by altering the capacity division of the circuit and interface coupling.
When an antenna is used in some circuits it only allows the AV Plug to better couple to the surrounding environment and draw current from it, this is NOT the same as Spatial Energy Coherence, therefor the addition of circuit capacity in any way will and should reduce your output.
Great work and effort you and all the others are putting in here.
We are closely approaching enough mass (number of working circuits) that we will soon explore self running. Before we do, everyone with a working circuit must see some gain over unity byt one or more of the various methods, otherwise they will suffer total frustration.
Hi Ron,
many thanks for the tips with the closed winding couplings. I have also seen, that sometimes it was better, when I pressed the 9 turn coil with my hand onto the litz coil. So I will now explore this deeper and try a closer coupling.
My next question is, does the pickup sense coil not have its own resonances with the scope heads capacitance ? Hmmm... I will try this and let you know. Ron, how many windings does your sense coil have and what wire diameter ?
Many thanks.
UPDATE: Well, I tried another radio and the same thing happens.
Hi Dave! Have you tried introducing a permanent magnet into the vicinity while the AM radio is in feedback? Stefan's video of the effects of a magnetic field in the vicinity of the coil was interesting, and i'm wondering if the microphonic effect is due to acoustic disturbance of the circuit, or if it's picking up a field from the speaker driver. You might also be able to test it with some earbud headphones off of the radio. Put one in your ear and the other one backwards near the coil to see if it picks up the small driver in there.
Just a thought..feel free to skip it! :)
I'm not sure i know what i'm looking at, but it's an interesting thread nonetheless! :P
@All,@plengo
now that I have "Thomas design" device working and scorpio posted his replication I must ask this question. Please no offence to anyone or Dr. Stiffler for this question. Look at the picture from scorpio and notice where I replace the left box with my FuncGen and on the right instead of an antenna I have my 250ft lamp wire cable about 23awg (well pretty much an antenna as EMdevices stated rightly so).
Why would using a FuncGen the LEDs being lit would be explained by "Stray Capacitance / Resonance / Transmission lines" but NOT Dr. Stiffler Thomas design device?
I am a little confused. How can I know, or what are the procedures should I follow (sorry for not being that well versed in electronics and electrical engineering principles) to know for sure both designs are not working because of RF? For me FuncGen and THomas oscilator are pretty much the same except that with Thomas design it self-regulates to the correct frequency while the FuncGen I must do it manually. With both designes I was able to light all those LEDs, have the neon lamp lit and exactly the same wave pattern on the osciloscope.
I am only trying to understand the difference because I believe there lies one of the secrets. I am pretty sure Dr. Stiffer has an answer for that (please Dr. do not be upset with my question even though I already seen this kind of question many times on the beggining of our quest on this thread).
Fausto.
ps: the picture shows that I connect one lead of the FuncGen to the 470p cap at the base of the transitor. Replace only the transistor, resistor, L1, caps from the battery and battery with FuncGen.
With my BC 555, which by the way are very cheap, I bought about 50 pieces for around 1.50 Euros, about 2 US$, it is recommended to keep the input current below 40 mA, otherwise this transistor gets too hot. Sometimes I was able to get the input current down to 15 mA and keep the same brightness as when I used 40 mA of input current. So you really have to tune the used waveform for minimum input current while keeping the output constant...Stefan!
You know the difference when you can measure a unity > 1.Thank you Dr. Stiffler. Now it makes perfect sence to me. So in other words (if I understood you right) with conventional models the antenna approach (shown on the previous pics and posts of mine) the device would be emitting energy out from the source, but with SEC (properly tunned) will draw energy (may be from the antenna in my example or the coil) into the device, the opposite of the conventional model which would be a problem because of errouneous EM models.
It is RF, but the way it reacts to the environment is very different. Closed RF systems with an antenna will radiate (provided the correct impedances are present) or will heat a dummy load. With the AV plug you see an environmental coupling if you use an antenna, that is why (depending on where you connect it) you will see either an increase in brightness and input current or a decrease in brightness.
Dear Non-funded Researchers,Hi Spokane1 and all,
If you are considering developing improved variations to the blocking oscillator portion of the Thomas Driver, then as a suggestion ?don?t re-invent the wheel? see what the experts were doing 60 years ago. I believe that most modern electronic theory courses don?t cover this once important circuit. There are at least a hundred or more potential improvements that can still be made to the Dr. Stiffler technology and many of them are waiting to be rediscovered in the old texts of analog electronics.
Mr. Hartmann and others have already proposed a number of improvements, all of which have merit and need to be explored in detail. The latest is the addition of a coil between the Thomas Driver and the AV plug. Believe it or not this variation is called a delay-line blocking oscillator and is discussed in detail in the book "Waveforms" (see below). I think we have only touched the surface of what this modification can provide.
Meanwhile, here is a partial list of some excellent technical books that you might have a good chance of finding at your local college library. Or, if you have the $$ you can buy them off on the Internet. There are a lot of other good reports on blocking oscillators out there, but many are hidden in the journals of professional organizations (i.e. IEEE Proceedings).
1) ?Waveforms?, edited by Britton Chance, Vernon Hughes, Edward F. MacNichol, David Sayre and Frederic C. Williams 1949 McGraw Hill Book Co. Reprinted by Dover in 1965 Library of Congress Number 65-22733
2) ?Pulse Electronics? Ralph Litttauer 1965 McGraw-Hill Inc. Library of Congress Number 64-22195
3) ?Pulse and Digital Circuits? Jacob Millman and Herbert Taub 1956 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 55-11930
4) ?Pulse, Digital, and Switching Waveforms? Jacob Millman and Herbert Taub 1965 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 64-66293
5) ?Basic Pulse Circuits? Richard Blitzer (RCA Institutes) 1964 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 63-15107
Submitted for your consideration,
Spokane1
Most of your questions will have to wait until I finish my paper, indeed what you all are doing is providing me with additional information that either fits or does not into my main idea of SEC. I do not have at this time have and may never all the answers, but I (we) are obtaining more by the day.You know the difference when you can measure a unity > 1.Thank you Dr. Stiffler. Now it makes perfect sence to me. So in other words (if I understood you right) with conventional models the antenna approach (shown on the previous pics and posts of mine) the device would be emitting energy out from the source, but with SEC (properly tunned) will draw energy (may be from the antenna in my example or the coil) into the device, the opposite of the conventional model which would be a problem because of errouneous EM models.
It is RF, but the way it reacts to the environment is very different. Closed RF systems with an antenna will radiate (provided the correct impedances are present) or will heat a dummy load. With the AV plug you see an environmental coupling if you use an antenna, that is why (depending on where you connect it) you will see either an increase in brightness and input current or a decrease in brightness.
And you right, depending where I connect my "antenna" in the circuit it will bright the LEDs or dim them. I have experienced both and that's exactly where I started doubting the conventional model.
If you right about the SEC then would be correct to predict that any "antenna" attached to this device would not get hot? Should the LEDs run cold? and possible our future load? And If I understood you right, SEC being "capacitive" the load we will endup putting onto this system will only work if we make the load "less capacitive" and SEC device (or vice-versa)?
Another question: do you see this "cold electricity" (may be radiant?) with properties similiar to fluid or gaseous? If yes, would that be an explanation for the "microphonics" effect we seen in one of the other fellas here ? My opinion is that it is gaseous somehow and when ones hands approach the device it affects its radiant flow and since our coil is working somehow as an "antenna" but in reverse mode (withdrawing energy from the environment) it is also affecting the coils inside the radio with miscroscopic perfection thus modulation.
So many questions so little time. I really appreciate your work Dr. Stiffler.
Fausto.
@ Retrod:
Actually, I think it was the song "Angel in the morning" that was causing this effect. (Ha, ha.) Just kidding. Nice work in leading us into a fascintating area. Which radio was on in the video?
Bill
I know I have mentioned it before in the thread, but it being so long I will again, 'SEC is based on voltage NOT current, it is a capacitive coupling effect and not inductive, SEC (to the best of my work) does not take place unless the output of the AV Plug is 100 or more volts.'
Gee I hope it is not EVP. I heard recordings of EVP on a late night radio show once and it scared the crap out of me!!!!!
Bill
I also listened to the light output by using a 931-a photomultiplier tube and also a phototransistor. The phototransistor is mounted in a digital voice recorder in place of a normal microphone. This recorder is very sensitive to any modulations or vibrations of light, at least in the audio frequency range. On playback I got several speech fragments that do not sound like a radio broadcast. I'll post one and then drop the subject as it does not relate directly to OU, just something to think about.
This is what I hear.
"We want/run a tester that's different....Cleveland had a smart kid"
Dave
A weird effect I just noticed, is that if you switch the polarity of one of the LEDs in the chain, then while that LED turns off, all the other LEDs remain on, at the same brightness. Seems a bit weird...Instead of making a simple in series chain of all same polarity facing diodes (LEDS), try making a series "AV" plug from the LEDS themselves.
@All,
Please take care as some LEDs ( specially the blue ones ) can emit UV light which can damage your eyes permanently.
Instead of making a simple in series chain of all same polarity facing diodes (LEDS), try making a series "AV" plug from the LEDS themselves.
That is, bypass the signal diodes altogether, kill off the capacitor in the AV circuit if your using one, they are not needed, and instead connect one end of the secondary to a series of "AV LEDS" which is simply one LED facing one direction in parallel with another LED in the opposite direction. 2 LEDS in opposite direction make an "AV LED". Now simply hook up as many of these "AV LED" pairs in series as you can. I have 50 Leds making up 25 "AV LEDS" and the interesting thing to note is, each pair of LEDS adds to the total brightness of all the other LEDS as the plug chain grows with each added "AV LED" pair. At the end of the chain is a 20 cm piece of wire.
2 LEDS in opposite direction make an "AV LED". Now simply hook up as many of these "AV LED" pairs in series as you can. I have 50 Leds making up 25 "AV LEDS" and the interesting thing to note is, each pair of LEDS adds to the total brightness of all the other LEDS as the plug chain grows with each added "AV LED" pair. At the end of the chain is a 20 cm piece of wire.
Have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJvFd3pYBnM
THIS VIDEO NOT EXIST !
Amazing !
I hope Dr. Stiffler will publish the exact circuit.
Regards, Stefan.
P.S:His website is at:
www.stifflerscientific.com
And one super stupid question: how can I find the uH of a coil with regular tools such as multimeter, osciloscope?
I have been using this AV LED setup for quit a while now but the reason I was using was only because of the AC of the FuncGen. I also notice that with this device it does behave very weirdly. No matter how you connect the LEDs somehow I still have current in the middle of all of them and some voltage.LEDS we buy come from www.besthongkong.com, when I mentioned JameCo I did not mean to imply that everything we use comes from there. The Ebay LEDS may be Ok, but I have had good luck with BestHongKong, 2-4 failures in 1k units and they seem to stand up for a good amount of time in SEC driven circuits.
One more interesting thing that happened was I was trying to see if this electricity would conduct through water and guess what happened? Electrolisis. Not that this is something special ( I have been watching john Aaron at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT1zudn-yTM for quit sometime now) it is that I got electrolisis with only 100ma, thats another story all together.
Aaron get his hydrogen using 12v with 10 Amps and I am getting, off course a lot of less hydrogen, with only 20v 100ma. There is something special about what kind of wire I am using too and its physical shape. I posted a video about it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDCWaSFnSkg.
Fausto.
ps: purchasing LEDs on ebay from this guys in China is absolutely the cheapest I ever seen. 100 LEDs 15000 mcd for only $1 dollar plus $12 shipping and also 100 LEDs 5mm Red or Blue or White 5000mcd for again $1 and $6 shipping. Isn' that unreal? on jamenco was about $1.80 per LED!!!
Thank you amigo, that was a very good kit. I just bought it.And one super stupid question: how can I find the uH of a coil with regular tools such as multimeter, osciloscope?
You can build one pretty cheap using a PIC16F84A, here's a schematic (http://electronics-diy.com/lc_meter.php).
JameCo is best for transistors, MOSFETS, Diodes, Capacitors and Resistors. In fact I just obtained 100ea 10uf@350V for $0.126ea. and 1kuf@50v for $0.36. Its the same story, shop, but JameCo has some good buys if you know what you are buying.
Thank you amigo, that was a very good kit. I just bought it.
Instead of making a simple in series chain of all same polarity facing diodes (LEDS), try making a series "AV" plug from the LEDS themselves.
That is, bypass the signal diodes altogether, kill off the capacitor in the AV circuit if your using one, they are not needed, and instead connect one end of the secondary to a series of "AV LEDS" which is simply one LED facing one direction in parallel with another LED in the opposite direction. 2 LEDS in opposite direction make an "AV LED". Now simply hook up as many of these "AV LED" pairs in series as you can. I have 50 Leds making up 25 "AV LEDS" and the interesting thing to note is, each pair of LEDS adds to the total brightness of all the other LEDS as the plug chain grows with each added "AV LED" pair. At the end of the chain is a 20 cm piece of wire.
hoptoad,
pretty interesting idea, this way we take the energy directly off the single wire before it is converted, but just to confirm here's a schematic? :)
Now the cold shower
In the my preceding post:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg61260.html#msg61260
I affirmed that with 150 MA I drive 50 LEDs with 10V of tension, but what seems to be a device that produces more energy of how much it consumes, it is absolutely false. If to get a LED, with the same brightness of the other ones drive by the oscillator, using as source of energy 10V, it is necessary to insert a resistance, but a resistance consumes energy, energy that I cannot use for drive the LED. Here this is the error that so many do, with these types of experiments. Instead of putting a resistance, we put to his place the LEDs, in this way instead of burning energy we use the LED to illuminate. How many LED for 10 V are needed ? More other 4, in total they make 5 LEDs, under these conditions the resistance is not necessary and therefore we don't waste energy.
Finally thare is 5 bright LED, that consumes, verified to the tester, 4 mA alone, that for a power of 10 V, they absorb a total of 40 mW of energy. In my experiment 50 LED consumed 1500 mW (1,5 W) or 150 mW for 5 LEDs, and therefore the efficiency of the system is low, equal to: 150/40 = 26%!
From these simple example we deduced that:
The apparatus planned by Stiffer, can be defined OU producer only if it needs less energy of how much is necessary for piloting a group of LED connected in series and directly drive by the power tension.
Unfortunately, my apparatus is very distant to be been able to produce OU, but that of Stiffler, if what says it is true, could he have more possibility, but has he made the comparative test with the LED directly fed by power tension ?
Stiller say:
The preceding 'Thomas' oscillator as shown will drive the common SEC coil
to an OU of +2 when using 36 White LEDS. The input current is a small
40mA. This is a great oscillator and simple to build for work with SEC.
The comparative test i easy to do,I would like Stiffler to do it, also to verify how much affirmed corresponds to the reality.
Best regards,
Adriano
@hoptoad@Adriano
Also I am an active sceptic, but when I have built the circuit not noticed any strange phenomenon.
As you have built the circuit ?
The scheme of mine you have seen it, is yours different ?
The example of the 5 LEDs has served me to understand that I didn't produce OU, but rather the system was a little efficient... (< 30%)
Ciao
Adriano
Circuit Efficiency
@Retrod,
I will try this tonight, I have some brand new 4 or 5ft tubes I can use.
What voltage/current are you pulling on the supply?
Regards
Rob
@Hoptoad:Greetings Thaelin - thanks for the safety tip!
I would like to caution you on randomly touching places to see whats there. RF burns happen very easy and it can take days for the effects to manifest. It is not like a normal electric shock which makes the muscles jump. It has a burning sensation to it and can do things in a short amount of time. Five watts of RF can really mess you up. I do realize that there is micro-watts here but just be safe. Until correct RF mesurements can be made, dont tempt fate.
Otherwise, hey aint this fun? Makin a Bertha, I hope.
thaelin
Just a thought on this, if these old lamp tubes (which are now a waste hazard) could be reused for cold electricity lighting purposes, and last nearly forever.....
Dave
@ Amigo
Yep, the diagram you posted is exactly the lay-out I've used for my LEDS.
I originally set it up as per the Stiffler "AV" hook up, with all 50 leds wired in a single series chain back to the "AV", but then I stripped down the elements oneby one, and eventually re-configured the O/P as shown by your diagram above. I am getting a lot more out of the same 50 LEDS set up as a chain of series "AV LEDS", than I did in the original layout.
I also have a "bar" magnet consisting of 4 neo's, which is layed lengthwise in parallel to the ferrite antenna. I would prefer to use "Heel or Front End" tuning, which is the shifting of the coils towards one end or other of the core, but my core is a self contained sealed unit which I cannot access directly.
I couldn't help noticing that when I connected the first 2 LEDS while the oscillator was turned on and running, the temperature of the transistor/s
increased dramatically and got quite hot. As I added the "AV LEDS", the temp decreased. Each added pair of Leds increased the brightness of the previous pair/s.
I have no usable voltage and current measuring instruments at the moment. The only meters I have are cheap Digital Multi-Meters, which go completely "wild" when I turn the circuit on. But I deduce that the current in the driver circuit is actually decreasing with each added pair of LEDS, leading me to believe that the brightness will continue to increase with further addition of pairs, until the load impedance equals that of the secondary impedance which is, theoretically, very high, if it is indeed, a self tuning resonating circuit!
I just started a new 9-5 job today, so I'll have to wait until the week end to buy some more components and measuring equipment.
This circuit is very interesting. If nothing else it has revealed some unusual properties of LEDS themselves!
Also I am not using an aluminium plate, and have no ground connection, and I am using a 12V battery powered circuit.
The bright lights have got me hooked and dazed..........KneeDeep......KneeDeep :D :D
Cheers all from the Toad who Hops
5 - When using the LEDs in disposition such as the one Amigo described (many AV plugs) or as I was using (many in series then
invert them and many more in series and on each section put some in parallel), inserting a ground or antenna had interesting
effects such as increasing the output current and brightness or depending where connected in the LEDs sections decrease
brightness and output current.
Oh, and all the best with the new job. Remember it pays the bills to buy new toys ;)
@hoptoad@ Amigo
Great, so it seems that using the multi-AV chains does not deplete the source as fast as when connecting LEDs in series, and I would assume that is because we are staying within the open circuit topology with single wire transmission.
I now have two test setups, one on a board with metal bottom and one without so that the effects can be compared. I also got the cores today (20 of them to be exact) so I can actually come closer to using exactly the same setup as Dr.Stiffler does.
.....
Can you guess why this circuits secondary works in "open" loop ....
A blocking oscillator (see grey area in illustration) is also called a rejector circuit (DE: Sperrkreis) and is a special RLC-circuit. It consists of an inductance and a cap in parallel. It takes it's name from the following effect:@Gustav22
At a certain frequency the overall current through such a circuit is minimal. In an ideal blocking oscillator this overall current at a certain frequency is 0 A.
As the current is min. the power consumed (P = U*I) at that frequency is also minimal.
However, this min. current or "zero Amps" is "the sum of all currents" in the branches of that blocking oscillator circuit (at that certain frequency which is also called the circuit's resonance frequency).
For this total current to be min. or zero, the currents in the coil branch and in the capacitor branch of the circuit must be equal and anti-parallel.
Now let's use the (short) coil of this blocking oscillator (L1 in illustration) and wind it around a (long) coil (L2 in illustration). We have created a step-up transformer.
Now we can make use of this (long) secondary coil and employ it as the L in another RLC-circuit.
But we don't use it to build another blocking oscillator but instead we build a series resonance circuit (see light blue area in illustration).
In order to do this we have to place a cap in series with our long coil.
However, we don't buy a cap, but just leave both ends of the circuit open. These two ends are in fact a cap, as every cap is just that: Two conducting ends which are sperated by an insulator.
Note that the effect of a series resonance circuit is just the opposite of the effects produced by a blocking oscillator.
In a series resonance circuit, current is max. when the circuit hits its resonance frequency.
So the coil in our series resonance circuit is the secondary side of a step-up transformer.
Current at resonance in this 'circuit' will be max. so we can light lots of LEDs and hopefully also power other loads soon.
This is my understanding and an attempt to explain what we see with basic high school physics.
If my understanding is seriously flawed, I kindly ask you to point out the mistakes.
I was in the mood to play tonight and since I got those new cores I should be close to the target now. The cores measure about 710uh and I made 7-8 turns instead of 9 on the primary coming to about 4-5uh.Excellent work Amigo. As you work with the circuits, new ideas just keep coming don't they! If you have a scope, look at the waveforms in the circuit both with a X10 probe and a "sniffer" coil, you will then understand more what is going on here. There is the basic RF waveform @ the CE junction and then there is a much more revealing waveform near the hot (battery end) of the coil. Look at it carefully and do everything you can to enhance that waveform!
In any case the setup is in picture 1, battery is 10.2V so technically depleted 12V one, DMM is on mA and the circuit is my modified version that uses BD243 instead of the 2N3904/2N2222. I also have some other modifications but as a proof of concept it should suffice. The main drive board has 100x 5mm 55,000mcd LEDs and it's supported by an aluminium back, while the smaller boards have 14x 10mm 130,000mcd LEDs and no aluminium back.
My idea was to test the extent of AV plug and what can actually be done with it because I got tired of all these measurements and O/U guesswork. I'm a practical guy and I want to do something practical with this, so I figure let's see how many lights we can get going, how far and whether we can use a single wire to power it all.
As you can see from the included picture, yes we can drive with a single wire lots and lots of LEDs at miniscule amounts of source current. The picture 5a is sort of an anomaly I've noticed, if you look at the middle bottom board it is not connected to the AV plug drive but on the opposite side of the diode and as a consequence that board lights up brighter than the rest of them, at the minimum additional current draw. I believe this can be done to all even or all odd boards to get more light output from them.
This is by no means done, I have not used any coils in-between to try and boost the drive or such, it's just a possible beginning for something practical that can be explored. Also, interference caused by touching the connections and boards causes the lights to dim a bit, so that's another thing to consider when designing final circuits.
Important bit is that since the LEDs have different impedances (5mm vs 10mm ones) if those were matched I believe we could go on adding more without much loss or increase in current draw. Right now you see a jump from only 5mm to 5mm+10mm ones of almost 15mA. Funny thing is that I initially had this at 31mA but then I moved the setup and now it's at 48mA...figures.
@ retrod:
Great video. That is awesome! Something is lighting that tube....but what?
Bill
@ fritz:
The rf doesn't hurt the beer does it? That would be a shame.
Bill
@All
BTW:
I would be careful on upscaling those experiments
to some degree.....
Finally some guys from the fcc will show up and take
everything including the solder iron.
If you operate an rf transmitter you should at least
know the frequency and fieldstrength you are emitting...
Even a radio amateur isnt allowed to transmit on any
frequency.
Maybe your neighbour already freaks out because he
gets evp messages from his radio.....
be careful !
@fritz
That's a good point but I do not have a field strength meter, can I build one quick and cheap? Based on my scope data I see that the operating frequency is between 1 and 2 MHz (this big range is because I keep playing with those caps in the oscillator hoping to reduce the source current by raising the frequency)
I had it going at 2MHz at one point and I believe I had it down to 11mA use on the whole setup (100x 5mm + 42x 10mm LEDs). But I cannot confirm that yet, I will have to re-run the whole thing. First I need to clear much more room on my table because working in a 2bdrm apt. is pretty tough. :)
@All
BTW:
I would be careful on upscaling those experiments
to some degree.....
Finally some guys from the fcc will show up and take
everything including the solder iron.
If you operate an rf transmitter you should at least
know the frequency and fieldstrength you are emitting...
Even a radio amateur isnt allowed to transmit on any
frequency.
Maybe your neighbour already freaks out because he
gets evp messages from his radio.....
be careful !
Have you built the circuit? I have a field strength meter and the meter drops to background at three feet from the circuit. There is nothing to fear here from the FCC or your neighbors.
Here are more photos of my hack.Although not explored, there are times I have during many straight hours of testing that I thought I saw 'Diurnal' effects exhibited from the circuits. In one case a self-running oscillator that would run for 30+ minutes at night, would not run during the day. This was NOT the result of any type of radio interference so we won't even go there. This is an area that needs looking into but must be done in a controlled way to insure you use the exact circuit under the exact conditions, including your ambient temperature and lighting conditions. In my case when using 1N4148's it was even necessary to paint over the clear glass so the they did not react to the light.
I am using the "standard" core of about 710uH in secondary while primary has 8 turns of 22 AWG making it 4uH or so, can't exactly say. I have replaced the original transistor with BD243 (plain one, though I have a C version here I did not want to risk burning those yet ;) ). I have a diode going from the ground rail via a 180pF cap to the base. I did this remembering that Bedini used a diode across the ground to the base to protect the transistor from BEMF, but maybe this is just redundant in this case, not sure. Or maybe nobody in their right mind would connect a diode and a cap in series but me. :D
A 350K 1/4w resistor from power rail to the base; emitter on the ground and one end of the primary to the collector. The other end of the collector is on the power rail. Also, there's a 1.1uH generic choke feeding the secondary, which ends are in this case reversed (as seen in the photo).
Each side has 50x 5mm 55,000mcd LEDs in series connected via diodes to the common feed rail on either ends of the LEDs.
The small board has 14x 10mm 130,000mcd LEDs in series and diodes on both ends connected to the common feed rail. These small boards are connected in series so that one input goes on one side and output of the other side of the common rail, even though I am not sure if that is crucial, you could simply daisy chain from the same spot.
Lastly, the scope shot of the circuit running with only 100 LEDs connected. For some reason the values are different than last night, HV output is lower for that matter, possibly because I did not connect the other 42 large LEDs in, or for some other (unknown to me) reason. My scope's probe is x100, since I do not fancy some HV killing my (recently acquired) THS 720 :D
@retrodA noted fact is that under the right conditions I have determined that certain white LEDS in theses circuits will emit detectable UV levels. It is no joke that the LEDS should not be looked directly into even it they are not emitting UV. It is well noted that eye damage is possible from high intensity light such as the white LEDS.
Thank you. You're so right. Those LEDs do have some "heat" when I am in direct view of them. I dont know why but when I was recording for the youtube I notice that for the rest of the next day I have this "warm felling" right in my eyes like when you go skying in the mountan and forget the eye gear and the next day, oh boy, your face is so red....
@all
just a point that I learned this year. Do you know those craizy scientists that claims they know the secret but guess what they lost their "notes", including Tesla. Well, this year I decide to keep a almost "religious" process in document and noting everything I am doing (so many projects, so many notes) in plain paper notebook followed by good pictures and now the "my precious" youtube for the videos. I can not stress how important is to go back to those notes and "re-believe" what I discovered and have done.
As one example, I still have a few videos and notes describing in detail how to run this one experiment where my battery runs this "circuit" , make noises, run things and never, I say, NEVER run my 5hAmp battery down, which is the source of the circuit. Unbelieaveble. I had to return to those notes so many times and the videos to be sure that I really did what I am saying.
So guys, can you please make notes and possibly post here sometimes? (no criticism here, I am just serious about it, after all we ARE making history now).
Fausto.
Although not explored, there are times I have during many straight hours of testing that I thought I saw 'Diurnal' effects exhibited from the circuits. In one case a self-running oscillator that would run for 30+ minutes at night, would not run during the day. This was NOT the result of any type of radio interference so we won't even go there. This is an area that needs looking into but must be done in a controlled way to insure you use the exact circuit under the exact conditions, including your ambient temperature and lighting conditions. In my case when using 1N4148's it was even necessary to paint over the clear glass so the they did not react to the light.
This would be interesting if someone did show such effects.
Have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJvFd3pYBnM (Stiffler removed it from YouTube)
Amazing !
I hope Dr. Stiffler will publish the exact circuit.
Regards, Stefan.
P.S:His website is at:
www.stifflerscientific.com
.. I randomly found it on the leedskalin page.. I didnt take it from someone ??? Anyway , It didn't show much info, there was a video on the site labeled induction test or something , it just looked visually similar to your project with the open ended transformer leads and all. And the ground magnet made me think of a few things this could be used for, so i figured id just share, thats all. :)
Joe
Dr. Stiffler first reported OU weeks ago, and again as late as a few days ago. Why hasn't he made his circuit self-sustaining? And what happened to the other 6 people who achieved OU (according to Stiffler)? Still no report of anything self-sustaining.I do not control any of the other replicators nor speak for them. I would guess they will not or have not published their results because of people that make comments like you are so frequent in making.
This is turning into a joke.
I do not control any of the other replicators nor speak for them. I would guess they will not or have not published their results because of people that make comments like you are so frequent in making.
Go have a good laugh, maybe it will free some of your cra ......
There is an alice-in-wonderland quality about this: somebody discovers the greatest thing since fire - tapping into some cosmic energy source that allows him to do more work, i.e., light more bulbs than can be accounted for by the energy coming in.@canam101
Instead of doing what I should think any rational man would do and connect the output to the input and make it self-sustaining, and then call in every newspaper and tv reporter he can to announce this monumental discovery to the world - instead of doing that, he gets on overunity.com and urges people to experiment with his circuit.
Then he claims that six of the experimenters have replicated his design successfully and are also lighting more bulbs than can be accounted for. But none of them calls in the reporters either.
Anybody reading about this bizarre behavior can only conclude that the inventor is just kidding himself and that he has nothing unusual.
To all who are confused at why he doesn't go out and scream overunity, it's completely understandable. Perhaps he thinks that if he got all the attention he possibly could, and finds out later that he made a mistake about his invention or that it really wasn't overunity, he would become a public moron. Many scientists make mistakes, and it very well is possible that he could have made one. Everyone would agree that being a public moron isn't the best thing in this world to be, especialy when trying to invent something. You get shut down, and no one wants to help you. This is probably the best he can do. Get some public help, but don't make yourself a dart board for public interest. A compromise that should help him get his invention perfected, and if he makes a mistake, the entire world won't explode on him. I have some mental problems (i'm not retarded), and i'm very shy. I would probably do the exact same thing as him. :)
Whether he is hoaxing or not; there is no way to tell. So no conclusion about his intentions should be assumed. This is a powerful invention, and should be attended to with greate appreciation. 8)
@ jonesbeene@Dean,
How did you come to the conclusion that quantum tunnelling may be involved in a simple pulsed dc circuit ?
Or is that just wishful thinking for an idea you have rattleling around in your noggin that you would like to super impose on
the nothingness that is the stiffler effect.
Geeze Loise
Edited ...
Or maybe you are going to propose that we weight the almost infinite mass the electron will attain at such speed with some Kwikymart scales ?
@ jonesbeene@Dean,
How did you come to the conclusion that quantum tunnelling may be involved in a simple pulsed dc circuit ?
Or is that just wishful thinking for an idea you have rattleling around in your noggin that you would like to super impose on
the nothingness that is the stiffler effect.
Geeze Loise
Edited ...
Or maybe you are going to propose that we weight the almost infinite mass the electron will attain at such speed with some Kwikymart scales ?
Please contribute some facts or figures relating to research in this area, instead of just cynical remarks, which contribute nothing!
And another point ...
Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.
A simple test ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.
And another point ...
Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.
A simple test ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.
I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...
And another point ...
Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.
A simple test ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.
I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...
JonesBeene does exactly what you have done .. make "the test" a bridge too far and then goes on to exclaim how this is going to be a revolution. I suggest a valid test that would give you a ball park figure which in my opinion would be enough to indicate if you were close to over unity or not .. and you just shoot it down so you can go on "believing" what you so obviously need to believe
... me Erratic? LOL .. is that the best you can do .. some half arsed personal assault. Go ahead .. quote everything I have said .. summarise me as an individual ... whatever .. at least my real name is there with my real words. No Hope ...
And another point ...
Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.
A simple test ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.
I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...
JonesBeene does exactly what you have done .. make "the test" a bridge too far and then goes on to exclaim how this is going to be a revolution. I suggest a valid test that would give you a ball park figure which in my opinion would be enough to indicate if you were close to over unity or not .. and you just shoot it down so you can go on "believing" what you so obviously need to believe
... me Erratic? LOL .. is that the best you can do .. some half arsed personal assault. Go ahead .. quote everything I have said .. summarise me as an individual ... whatever .. at least my real name is there with my real words. No Hope ...
Calm the F*** down... You take everything as a personal insult, you some how connect stealing and unconclusive experiments to be the same thing, and you attack people with sarcasm... Do you understand now why some people would believe you to be erratic??? Do you want some one to really personaly attack you? Arguing is fun at night, especialy when your bored, so I would suggest NOT continuing for the sake of sanity.
And another point ...
Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.
A simple test ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.
I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...
JonesBeene does exactly what you have done .. make "the test" a bridge too far and then goes on to exclaim how this is going to be a revolution. I suggest a valid test that would give you a ball park figure which in my opinion would be enough to indicate if you were close to over unity or not .. and you just shoot it down so you can go on "believing" what you so obviously need to believe
... me Erratic? LOL .. is that the best you can do .. some half arsed personal assault. Go ahead .. quote everything I have said .. summarise me as an individual ... whatever .. at least my real name is there with my real words. No Hope ...
Calm the F*** down... You take everything as a personal insult, you some how connect stealing and unconclusive experiments to be the same thing, and you attack people with sarcasm... Do you understand now why some people would believe you to be erratic??? Do you want some one to really personaly attack you? Arguing is fun at night, especialy when your bored, so I would suggest NOT continuing for the sake of sanity.
Calm down yourself .. and explain to me why simple calorimetry would not suffice as a reasonable test ?
edited to disengage ...
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?@Dean
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?@Dean
It would be generous of you, if you could construct to the best of your ability, any one of the circuits posted here, perfect it to whatever degree of efficiency you can, and prove the circuit's and LED's actual efficiencies by using the method you have suggested or any other you care to choose, then post your results here where we can all freely analyze the figures and methods used to furbish them.
As a Skeptic, I do not "believe" in O/U, but, as with alI O/U and Non-O/U claims, I will approach whatever data and results you have to offer with an "open" mind. I'm here to learn and share new and old ideas in a new context, not pre-judge them.
I await in anticipation of any facts and figures from hands on experimentation, that you may have to offer.
From the Toad who Hops!
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?@Dean
It would be generous of you, if you could construct to the best of your ability, any one of the circuits posted here, perfect it to whatever degree of efficiency you can, and prove the circuit's and LED's actual efficiencies by using the method you have suggested or any other you care to choose, then post your results here where we can all freely analyze the figures and methods used to furbish them.
As a Skeptic, I do not "believe" in O/U, but, as with alI O/U and Non-O/U claims, I will approach whatever data and results you have to offer with an "open" mind. I'm here to learn and share new and old ideas in a new context, not pre-judge them.
I await in anticipation of any facts and figures from hands on experimentation, that you may have to offer.
From the Toad who Hops!
I was holding out for the plans to the non powered , no frequency generator version. Just try and stop me making one of those suckers :P
Maybe LEDs do create their own power. Then again, maybe Ohm's Law does not apply to LEDs with constant current sources. These are real measurements. I offer no explanations.
;) ;D ;) ;D
... Have bought some LED samples today ...
will soon come up with nice measuring results ....
LED operated with DC/AC/RF and combination +
differential resistance...
I also "found" an optical power meter in my workshop -
it works up to 999mW - in a calibrated way up to 50mW -
anyway - for comparison/efficiency its usable.
The problem with white LED is that this power meter is
calibrated to wavelength - means I need to measure
at 3 wavelengths for "white"....LED...
rgds,
xee, you realy need a scope meter to see what's happening. Before I experimented, I thought the diode bridge and cap were pretty good at turning the AC waveform to DC, but I was wrong. It's all about RF here, and I doubt DR Stifflers measurements now, and mine too.I will be interested to see what measurement protocol you end up with and your filter configuration.
So, I'm not so sure this approach produces OU. We're dealing with inappropriate measurements for the Output power. We realy should get a supper smooth DC voltage at the output, by a chain of caps and inductors (low pass filter config) so that we can be sure what we are measuring DC and not DC with RF on it.
EM
@DrStiffler,@AhuraMazda
If I understand your point A above correctly, does this mean using the Thomas oscillator does not produce the desired effects?
Regards
AM
@emdevices
congratulations you have reinvented the wheel, unfortunately tesla perfected this circuit 80 years ago. You can find a better circuit here---http://keelynet.com/tesla/---- patent 462418. Read the patent and you should understand that this "IS" Dr.Stifflers circuit only it uses a spark gap, the spark gap is an open capacitor just like the leads of Dr.Stifflers secondary coil windings. Tesla understood the shortcomings of the spark gap and produced a better version of patent 462418 in patent 568177. So you should understand that Dr.Stifflers circuit and yours are not new or unique, and we don't need to reinvent the wheel its already been done.
oh, It's way more fun to reinvent the wheel ha ha ha :D
but, sorry, I don't see what you mean by Tesla's patent.
EM
@emdevices
congratulations you have reinvented the wheel, unfortunately tesla perfected this circuit 80 years ago. You can find a better circuit here---http://keelynet.com/tesla/---- patent 462418. Read the patent and you should understand that this "IS" Dr.Stifflers circuit only it uses a spark gap, the spark gap is an open capacitor just like the leads of Dr.Stifflers secondary coil windings. Tesla understood the shortcomings of the spark gap and produced a better version of patent 462418 in patent 568177. So you should understand that Dr.Stifflers circuit and yours are not new or unique, and we don't need to reinvent the wheel its already been done.
By the way, these symetrical circuits I posted, are more related to what Hendershot did I believe.And also Moray!
EM
@fritz
I am no optics expert by a long shot, so just my two cents worth. Old style LEDS mixed Red, Blue and Green to come up with a White beam, while the newer units now coat the emitter with a phosphor much like an FL tube to enable the emission of the CLOSE to white light.
Most consumer light meters are weighted for the response of the human eye and do indeed have weighting filters added making it difficult to measure LED output with the same accuracy as the standard sources such as Tungsten, Mercury, Fluorescent and Sodium. You also need to now what type of power measurement you are making, lm/m2, lm/ft2 for example.
Without knowing your input device, I would doubt you can measure an entire LED array do to the beam angles not being convergent. I take a representative number of selected LEDS, measure the output from each and take an average, then monitor only one selected LED and extrapolate over the total number. This method allows for ease is seeing the effects of adding and subtracting LEDS from the change and the approach of optimum matching to the driver.
Looking forward to your results; What circuit and coil arrangement will you be using for the testing??? Just wanting to match Apples to Apples......
No, I don't believe it will be overunity with all that resistance. I included the resistance so I don't get a realy sharp and narrow spike in the simulation. But if a circuit will realy tap OU, then I imagine resistance will not stand in it's way.
Yes, indeed! The lamp used in this demo is a Philips PL-L 36 watt, 2900 lumans. Pulling 8 volts 120ma from the battery, the 60 LED's are lit bright (I have a cover over them). The outer pins of the lamp are connected to earth ground as well as the AV plug, the end of the lamp is resting on the 9volt radio battery (Duracell Copper top) case to complete the 'circuit'. I've also taken everything outside and connected to an eight foot driven ground rod, works the same way.@retrod
Dave
Hi Toady, the circuit is a very slightly modified version of the 'Thomas' circuit that is posted on Dr Stifflers site. I use a one meg resistor and removed the 190pf cap and added a 470uh core in series before the AV plug, that's all. You know, I once worked with an Engineer who thought he was an Owl. You would be having a conversation with him and he would suddenly start hooting and had an uncanny ability to swivel his head around, much like an owl does. It would have been interesting to get you both together.Yes, indeed! The lamp used in this demo is a Philips PL-L 36 watt, 2900 lumans. Pulling 8 volts 120ma from the battery, the 60 LED's are lit bright (I have a cover over them). The outer pins of the lamp are connected to earth ground as well as the AV plug, the end of the lamp is resting on the 9volt radio battery (Duracell Copper top) case to complete the 'circuit'. I've also taken everything outside and connected to an eight foot driven ground rod, works the same way.@retrod
Dave
Very Interesting - Hmmmmm........KneeDeep :) Great Stuff! Which circuit did you use ? Will you post the circuit, if it is different to any of the previous posted circuits here or on Dr Stifflers website?
Cheers from the Toad who Hops
@retrod,Thanks, your very welcome. The earlier posts where I had two (old) 40w four foot tubes running partially lit I used the 2N3904. The transistor smoked during another experiment so now I have a 2N2222 in it's place only because it was at hand.
Great results. Thanks for the posts. Are you using a 2N3904 transistor?
Hi Toady, the circuit is a very slightly modified version of the 'Thomas' circuit that is posted on Dr Stifflers site. I use a one meg resistor and removed the 190pf cap and added a 470uh core in series before the AV plug, that's all. You know, I once worked with an Engineer who thought he was an Owl. You would be having a conversation with him and he would suddenly start hooting and had an uncanny ability to swivel his head around, much like an owl does. It would have been interesting to get you both together.@retrod
Dave
@Xee@retrod
.............
I'm going to go back and study Dr Stifflers thoughts on closing the loop, the RF effect with the lamps was interesting to me, but perhaps a bit too off tangent for this thread.
Dave
For those interested do a Google on the peak frequency of atmospheric noise (~12Mhz range) and how it varies during the day @amigo this may be a partial answer to your observations.
60 white LED's are lit bright as well as the 36w lamp. The battery pack is reading 11 volts and the current is 110ma.
Please, I am not attempting to take anything out of context and please correct me if i am wrong, however these two statements within a paragraph of each other, both relating to the "Thomas Oscillator" seem to contradict eachother. One claims OU and the other I interpret to state otherwise. Which is correct ?@Dean,
"Thomas Oscillator is able to provide a considerable amount of energy to the load, although
as with the Thomas circuit I have not observed the circuit's ability to interface with the
Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy."
"The preceding 'Thomas' oscillator as shown will drive the common SEC coil
to an OU of +2 when using 36 White LEDS. The input current is a small
40mA. This is a great oscillator and simple to build for work with SEC."
...........
I have one more question.
How does one observe a circuit's ability to interface with the Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy?
Regards,
Dean
I lashed up the circuit from the doctors website using a hand wound coil and a sig gen.
(snip)
I really can't see anything special with this circuit. Ok, so I have only spent an afternoon on it and I maybe missing something.....
Oh well.
I have one more question.
How does one observe a circuit's ability to interface with the Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy?
Regards,
Dean
Please, I am not attempting to take anything out of context and please correct me if i am wrong, however these two statements within a paragraph of each other, both relating to the "Thomas Oscillator" seem to contradict eachother. One claims OU and the other I interpret to state otherwise. Which is correct ?You are correct this statement is in error. I do my own programming now and did not remove this statement when I moved the drivers to their own page. Sorry I'm not Perfect....
"Thomas Oscillator is able to provide a considerable amount of energy to the load, although
as with the Thomas circuit I have not observed the circuit's ability to interface with the
Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy."
"The preceding 'Thomas' oscillator as shown will drive the common SEC coil
to an OU of +2 when using 36 White LEDS. The input current is a small
40mA. This is a great oscillator and simple to build for work with SEC."
ref: http://www.drstiffler.com/drivers.asp
Regards,
Dean
I lashed up the circuit from the doctors website using a hand wound coil and a sig gen.Apples to Apples, Oranges to Oranges.
What I found is that the circuit behaves just like a tuned circuit as you would expect - resonant at 2Meg and 10Meg.
I could not light the LED without a ground, it would even work with a high Z ground (finger etc...)
My analogy is that the driver is a RF generator and the LED circuit behaves like a crystal radio.
If you've ever played with a crystal radio you'll know you need a ground and an aerial.
A crystal radio is not OU despite it gets power from the 'aether'.
I really can't see anything special with this circuit. Ok, so I have only spent an afternoon on it and I maybe missing something.....
Oh well.
"I have posted a new oscillator that works very well, 'The Thomas Oscillator'
It uses a single transistor and when the start resistor is properly selected and used with the coils as I specify it is very effective and can drive 36 Ultra-Bright White LEDS while being very OU.
Take a look at it, no excuse for not using it, this is a great driver. http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp"
After the Avramenkp plug there is pure DC at the LEDs and the cap, so it is easy to measure there the DC power in the LEDs. No optocoupler circuit needed, you can measure pure DC electrical power.
I do indeed dispute that you have true DC. If another of the group that has worked with me wants to add to this, great, but, you can not on a properly running SEC circuit just throw a big electrolytic across the AV Plug and get DC.
Even with very elaborate low pass filters consisting of canceling inductors, followed by a 10uf + 0.1uf + 0.01uf followed by two 8mm ferrite beads, you can still hold a neon on the end with one lead in your fingers and get it to light. A true SEC circuit is at such high impedance that the mere addition of a couple inches of wire is enough to change the frequency.
Why has it gone so quiet in here?Yes, very observant of you! :-)
@DrStiffler
I was put out a bit at the efficiency figure of 81% with the "bedini driver" then I noticed the light output has not been counted for.
Also, I personally don't trust digital meters in these instances.
Regards
AM
Just a thought. It has been said and proven that you don't need a battery or power source to run a crystal radio.
Dr. Stiffler's circuit seems to both receive and transmit RF and is especially strong in a sphere around the unit. Could not additional, separately tuned receivers be placed inside the sphere of influence and be used to drive the oscillator which then runs the Dr. Schiffler circuit. Perhaps others are trying to learn what the transmitted frequency is in order to do this.
Bernard
some interesting observations to be found on the Stiffler Scientific logo:-
the flask in the LH lower corner has the label '317', the white stripes at the base of the 'Science' shield are the equivalent of 317 in binary, the series of red 'dots' in the blue banner behind the eagle's head are the units representation of 317
what's the deal with 317? well, anyone who used to play with calculators will tell you that 317 makes 'LIE' when you turn it upside down - is there a hidden agenda here we need to know about?
PS did i miss the post which explains the 'selfrunning' in this thread's title?
@ fritz,
And how do you propose to close the loop ?
Cherrys
Dean
hi all - happy holidaysWow! You sound like a Mr. H20FORME type of guy???
apologies for the long post - it may help by shortening the thread in the long run
i check out this site from time to time to see what's happening & was interested to find this thread - interested enough to register just so i could reply to this thread...
... which seems to raise so many questions
the Avramenko plug operation & single wire power transfer at high voltage & frequency are frequent-flyers on OU related sites - interesting and potentially useful (no pun intended) - but not new
so, if you connect an AC signal source with some power capability into a transformer and load the secondary with an LED you could expect to light the LED if the unloaded pk-pk secondary voltage is greater than the Vf of the LED and there is sufficient current drive
the LED will not only partially rectify the output signal, it will also limit its amplitude on the forward drive half-cycle
if the secondary voltage drive capability is high enough you could add another LED in series (same polarity orientation) and expect to light the 2nd LED too - with similar forward volts-drop
the output voltage will be clamped to the sum of the two diode forward voltages - but the current will still be driven higher whilst the input waveform rises on each forward half-cycle
as someone has pointed out earlier in the thread, the human eye is extremely non-linear in perceiving brightness - and it has persistence of image - so it is difficult to judge visually just what is happening when more LEDs are added
you could expect to add as many LEDs, each apparently lit as brightly, up to a total forward volts drop equal to the loaded output capability of the transformer for that input signal
so far you've only added LEDs for one polarity swing of the output waveform - you can also expect to be able to drive a similar set of LEDs in parallel & with the opposite polarity
is this system providing power out independent of source? no - we're just adding load up to the drive capability of the signal source & transformer combination; it's just that it appears to the human eye that each additional increment in the load is adding to the power transfer & not sharing it between them
LEDs don't generate much heat - so its difficult to use temperature to measure the power out
why use LEDs when you could just drive heaters (or temperature-stable resistors?), use a calorimeter and get some once-and-for-all results which confirm or deny a power transfer anomaly?
so, why use LEDs? after all, we're not trying to make it difficult to see what's going on ...are we?
some interesting observations to be found on the Stiffler Scientific logo:-
the flask in the LH lower corner has the label '317', the white stripes at the base of the 'Science' shield are the equivalent of 317 in binary, the series of red 'dots' in the blue banner behind the eagle's head are the units representation of 317
what's the deal with 317? well, anyone who used to play with calculators will tell you that 317 makes 'LIE' when you turn it upside down - is there a hidden agenda here we need to know about?
google turned up some interesting results for Ron Stiffler and telos-research on the OUPower.com website back in Nov 2004
http://oupower.com/forum/index.php3?request=2951&HoursOld=48
PS did i miss the post which explains the 'selfrunning' in this thread's title?
hi all - happy holidaysHi
apologies for the long post - it may help by shortening the thread in the long run
i check out this site from time to time to see what's happening & was interested to find this thread - interested enough to register just so i could reply to this thread...
... which seems to raise so many questions
the Avramenko plug operation & single wire power transfer at high voltage & frequency are frequent-flyers on OU related sites - interesting and potentially useful (no pun intended) - but not new
so, if you connect an AC signal source with some power capability into a transformer and load the secondary with an LED you could expect to light the LED if the unloaded pk-pk secondary voltage is greater than the Vf of the LED and there is sufficient current drive
the LED will not only partially rectify the output signal, it will also limit its amplitude on the forward drive half-cycle
if the secondary voltage drive capability is high enough you could add another LED in series (same polarity orientation) and expect to light the 2nd LED too - with similar forward volts-drop
the output voltage will be clamped to the sum of the two diode forward voltages - but the current will still be driven higher whilst the input waveform rises on each forward half-cycle
as someone has pointed out earlier in the thread, the human eye is extremely non-linear in perceiving brightness - and it has persistence of image - so it is difficult to judge visually just what is happening when more LEDs are added
you could expect to add as many LEDs, each apparently lit as brightly, up to a total forward volts drop equal to the loaded output capability of the transformer for that input signal
so far you've only added LEDs for one polarity swing of the output waveform - you can also expect to be able to drive a similar set of LEDs in parallel & with the opposite polarity
is this system providing power out independent of source? no - we're just adding load up to the drive capability of the signal source & transformer combination; it's just that it appears to the human eye that each additional increment in the load is adding to the power transfer & not sharing it between them
LEDs don't generate much heat - so its difficult to use temperature to measure the power out
why use LEDs when you could just drive heaters (or temperature-stable resistors?), use a calorimeter and get some once-and-for-all results which confirm or deny a power transfer anomaly?
so, why use LEDs? after all, we're not trying to make it difficult to see what's going on ...are we?
some interesting observations to be found on the Stiffler Scientific logo:-
the flask in the LH lower corner has the label '317', the white stripes at the base of the 'Science' shield are the equivalent of 317 in binary, the series of red 'dots' in the blue banner behind the eagle's head are the units representation of 317
what's the deal with 317? well, anyone who used to play with calculators will tell you that 317 makes 'LIE' when you turn it upside down - is there a hidden agenda here we need to know about?
google turned up some interesting results for Ron Stiffler and telos-research on the OUPower.com website back in Nov 2004
http://oupower.com/forum/index.php3?request=2951&HoursOld=48
PS did i miss the post which explains the 'selfrunning' in this thread's title?
ROTFL___________________
Wow! You sound like a Mr. H20FORME type of guy???
Should not have wasted all that time, pity. 317 is the catalog number of bacterium I found in human skin cells and the 317 is the number of days it took until it was identified. Cheers Dude.
Fritz, the LM317 is a very popular adjustable regulator. First thing that came to mind for someone like me "who thinks they know electronics". ROTFL myself.4148,741,555,317,327,2222,914,6502,8008,.....,SP1000(;-)
@ Stiffy
Lets not blame the lack of measurable over unity for the lack of postings ... heaven forbid
8)
hi again**first up, an anomaly is reported - can we explain it by conventional understanding? if we can then we move on - if we can't then it's worth exploring more (the anomalous behaviour might prove useful in it's own right, of course)
first up, an anomaly is reported - can we explain it by conventional understanding? if we can then we move on - if we can't then it's worth exploring more (the anomalous behaviour might prove useful in it's own right, of course)
i read this thread and my first post attempted to generalize the reported conditions to try and see if there might be some conventional explanation - it seems to me there might, but we need to try & get a better handle on making some measurements in order to come to some conclusions
is my approach is unscientific? i hope not
do i claim to understand electricity? i don't believe so
my experiments to explore FE have centred around the Jensen UDT & variants of the magnetic parallel path system - no anomalies to report so far, but it hasn't stopped me planning to continue the experiments
secondly, as 'scientists' i hope we all look at data for evidence of currently unexplained patterns - when we find such evidence i hope we all want to start investigating in more detail
i found patterns in the Stiffler Scientific logo - i was interested and looked for more information - i reported some of my findings
was this unscientific?
my post contains an attempt to explore a report of anomalous electrical behaviour, some observations of an interesting pattern contained in the Stiffler logo, and a link to another OU site where Google found another instance of the name 'Ron Stiffler'
you can read my post - you can read Ron's response
i'm not going to tell people what to believe - about electricity - or anything else - just search for facts and draw conclusions from them.
isn't that the scientific way?
i've been really encouraged by this site - lots of good work being done by people researching physical anomalies and sharing results - lots of good work done by Stefan in setting up & maintaining the site!
good luck everyone with new & existing experiments in 2008!
sandy
hi again
first up, an anomaly is reported - can we explain it by conventional understanding? if we can then we move on - if we can't then it's worth exploring more (the anomalous behaviour might prove useful in it's own right, of course)
i read this thread and my first post attempted to generalize the reported conditions to try and see if there might be some conventional explanation - it seems to me there might, but we need to try & get a better handle on making some measurements in order to come to some conclusions
is my approach is unscientific? i hope not
do i claim to understand electricity? i don't believe so
my experiments to explore FE have centred around the Jensen UDT & variants of the magnetic parallel path system - no anomalies to report so far, but it hasn't stopped me planning to continue the experiments
secondly, as 'scientists' i hope we all look at data for evidence of currently unexplained patterns - when we find such evidence i hope we all want to start investigating in more detail
i found patterns in the Stiffler Scientific logo - i was interested and looked for more information - i reported some of my findings
was this unscientific?
my post contains an attempt to explore a report of anomalous electrical behaviour, some observations of an interesting pattern contained in the Stiffler logo, and a link to another OU site where Google found another instance of the name 'Ron Stiffler'
you can read my post - you can read Ron's response
i'm not going to tell people what to believe - about electricity - or anything else - just search for facts and draw conclusions from them.
isn't that the scientific way?
i've been really encouraged by this site - lots of good work being done by people researching physical anomalies and sharing results - lots of good work done by Stefan in setting up & maintaining the site!
good luck everyone with new & existing experiments in 2008!
sandy
****I would love some someone to prove different though. Would make a great Christmas present.mramos,
logos are not silly, on the contrary they have quite a depth both archetypal and symbolical that most people ignore because they do not know or do not care (while they should both know and care because logos affect us on many levels). Whether doc.stiffler had noble (or not) intentions with this logo is not an issue, the fact is he made a logo that carried a purpose and a meaning, at least to him, to the point of becoming almost as a personal rune, and someone recognized that. :)
Not to drift off topic, but as nothing it happening here with the circuit. As I stated, they mean nothing "to me". :) My kids have avatars all over the place (like the logos) and they mean a lot to them. Like there kewl nic-names do. I use my real name, maybe a lack of originality.
I just like to get the work done, maybe when the work is done, I will make a cool logo ;) I have a family crest from Spain as well (somewhere, would have to look for it).
I do still agree nul-point is right, except for analyzing the logo. hahahaha..
I would love some someone to prove different though. Would make a great Christmas present.
peace..
To stop all debate before it starts and gets out of hand, to prove me right or prove me wrong, you will need to use calorimetry, sorry, but you can not just wet your finger and touch a hot resistor and say yes or no.
KneeDeep.......It definitely depends on where you stick the aforementioned "finger", after you've licked it......KneeDeep... ;D :DTo stop all debate before it starts and gets out of hand, to prove me right or prove me wrong, you will need to use calorimetry, sorry, but you can not just wet your finger and touch a hot resistor and say yes or no.
I think licking the finger would definitely work better in determining the wind direction, but even that's up for debate... :D
****I would love some someone to prove different though. Would make a great Christmas present.
Maybe you just looked under the wrong tree :-)
www.drstiffler.com/drivers.asp
To stop all debate before it starts and gets out of hand, to prove me right or prove me wrong, you will need to use calorimetry, sorry, but you can not just wet your finger and touch a hot resistor and say yes or no.
KneeDeep.......It definitely depends on where you stick the aforementioned "finger", after you've licked it......KneeDeep... ;D :D
Amigo, glad to see you're still cheerfully hanging around this thread. You're doing well for a person who professes to being impatient! LOL.
Just wondering how those 20 cores of yours are aiding your cause in finding the cause! ...... LOL.
Have you had any particular variations in circuit configurations which you would say are definitely putting out more usable light than the others for a given input? I'm not asking whether you have achieved O/U, but whether it has become obvious that one or two particular circuit configurations are definitely more efficient (conventionally speaking) than others?
........@Amigo,
I also wonder if we (someone?) could "draw" a co-relation between measured light output and oscillator frequency, whether there is some connection there if frequency is higher or lower and if/how does that affect light output.
According to my calculations I'm only recovering 5% of the inputed 750 mW in my energy harvest circuit. My switching transistor is getting cold ---so where the heck is all my classical energy going?
Okay, how are you accounting for the duty cycle not being 50/50? Would it not be the same in the general sense as that of a squarewave calculation?According to my calculations I'm only recovering 5% of the inputed 750 mW in my energy harvest circuit. My switching transistor is getting cold ---so where the heck is all my classical energy going?
From your measurements, I calculate 50%, which isn't a conventionally unreasonable efficiency for this kind of circuit.
The transistor getting cold is really wierd, though. There is a thermoelectric effect, but that can't cause net cooling of the transistor if all the leads are the same metal. The best it could do is to cool the top while heating the bottom. Is it possible that the transistor is getting hot on the bottom?
Cheers,
Mr. Entropy
Hi Sandy,
Wish you a new joyful year, Sorry if I offended you,
but I certainly think that we all must respect Dr Stiffler here, as for sure he is here to help us, and a very honorable man.
In the mean time could you review my method of determining how much classical energy is being harvested with the DIAC collection approach?
My method is to merely compare energy (in mJ) between what the storage capacitor dumps compared to how much energy was inputted in the same period of time.
The capacitor dumps every 135 mS. The start voltage is 32 Volts the residual voltage is 22.44 Volts. This is about a 9 Volt differential. With a 200 uF capacitor this means a loss of 5.22 mJ.
In the same time period of 135 mS the Power supply is running at 15.06 Volts at an average current of 65 mA. This calculates to an energy input of 132 mJ.
Okay, how are you accounting for the duty cycle not being 50/50? Would it not be the same in the general sense as that of a squarewave calculation?
Dr Stiffler,What?
Is your circuit board self contained with battery and everyting? Nice compact design, I like it.
So you plan on measuring the battery voltage before and after to determine the power input and the temperature to measure power output?
I'm not so sure about that.
EM
P.S. What are you stirring in there, Air? LOL :)
You are 100% correct in not seeing wires as there are none. In fact the circuit shown (used for illustration) is not even complete to where it would function. The whole purpose was to show the unit that can be build on the cheap and yet be accurate to a meaningful level.QuoteNot being disrespectful, but have you started New Years early?
LOL, :D No not yet, but I am a bit more silly then usual, I'm bored out of my mind at work and I'm ready to go home and experiment.
I was just wondering on how you plan to measure the Input Power, and I'm not quite clear on where it's coming from, since I don't see any wires going into your calorimeter. Hence the speculation that you're using a battery. Are you?
The question I have is, how do you plan on measuring the Input Power, or are you?
I'm assuming you're intent with this experiment is to do Power IN vs Power Out calculations, is that not the case? (where you use a Calorimeter for the power out calculation)
that's all, just currious what your doing there.
Happy Preemptive New Year LOL :D
EM
Thanks for the interest and coverage of a complete test will be on my web site soon.
Have one for me, to old to have more than one now days :-)
Hmmm? Neon or wheat bulb?
thaelin
Dr Stiffler,Sorry, don't know squat about motors and to old to start now. Is this in reference to any of my work on SEC or something different? If involves SEC, what thread??
Any comments on the progress being made at the magnet motor thread ?
Cheers,
Dean
Well it's still not the "Free Lunch" but it should offer a key I think most have missed.
Simple to test and well worth the couple of minutes it will take. But? Do you get it yet?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklrnyQMktA
@RStifflerSir!, that is very well stated and from my point of view, 'A very accurate understanding' of some of what is taking place in the SEC circuits and others that the conventionalist's are turning away from.
The videos are very interesting, it is a pleasure to see good quality video for a change.
When building these circuits it should be considered that the quality of current has changed, our views of "current" are polarized in that we assume the current must be closed loop returning to its source. The currents produced in the secondaries however need not follow the laws we have created for ourselves. The currents become relative to everything, that is they can move to seperate isolated circuits, to grounded plates, to ungrounded plates and depending on the potential and period of oscillation act as a unidirectional current. I have asked a question many times in other threads---- what do you call a high frequency/high potential impulse?--- DC. But this "DC" is only one half of the potential difference, the earth ground can provide the other half ,having no relevance to the source battery or the primary circuit----- open loop. It should also be noted that the practice of "isolation" ensures the working circuit can never effect the source, so in this case many of the laws we apply in conventional circuits no longer apply.
Best Regards
I took these snapshots across the capacitor in a circuit Im working with, wave 3 is a picture of what happens when things go right, the small wave is the "current" everyone else uses---- the big one is what I utilize indirectly----- the other "current" everyone ignores. Wave 2 is a picture of what happens when things go wrong, which is usually what happens in my case. ;DHummm... Surprised you see it on a scope??
@ Doc
Is there a circuit diadram of the circuit in the last videos avaible on your website ?
I can alway only see the "building icon" when I go to www.drstiffler.com...
:(
Comments on your DC question; I have seen some of the wars when this question is asked. Like is varying DC really AC or is only AC real AC, what games we play. If a varying DC can induce a current in a transformer secondary in my mind it is AC. This business of AC having to pass through the magical or arbitrary (0) zero is wrong. What is zero but an arbitrary convience for mathematics, but when is zero really zero? Another way to get the troops stirred up is to bring up the question of Negative Frequency. Seems reverse time is fine but reverse frequency is Duh!.
@RStifflerGOD! Stephan fix this site........................
I read my post and realized how one sided it sounded, I don't suppose to understand much of this nor the greater implications, I am learning --- progressing and that is what is important.QuoteComments on your DC question; I have seen some of the wars when this question is asked. Like is varying DC really AC or is only AC real AC, what games we play. If a varying DC can induce a current in a transformer secondary in my mind it is AC. This business of AC having to pass through the magical or arbitrary (0) zero is wrong. What is zero but an arbitrary convience for mathematics, but when is zero really zero? Another way to get the troops stirred up is to bring up the question of Negative Frequency. Seems reverse time is fine but reverse frequency is Duh!.
I am learning to see all that you speak of (AC-DC) as Tesla did, there is no AC/DC there is a disturbance in the media, this disturbance has different properties and qualities relative to it's period of oscillation and potential. It has different properties and qualities relative to the medium it may interact with, its resistance, inductance, density and geometry. AC and DC are "currents" one varies over time where the other would appear not to, I don't confuse the issue by saying they are different, I think we have confused the properties of interaction with qualities.
Comments on your DC question; I have seen some of the wars when this question is asked. Like is varying DC really AC or is only AC real AC, what games we play. If a varying DC can induce a current in a transformer secondary in my mind it is AC. This business of AC having to pass through the magical or arbitrary (0) zero is wrong. What is zero but an arbitrary convience for mathematics, but when is zero really zero? Another way to get the troops stirred up is to bring up the question of Negative Frequency. Seems reverse time is fine but reverse frequency is Duh!.
The study of such rapidly alternating currents is very interesting. Nearly every experiment discloses something new. Many results may, of course, be, predicted, but many more are unforeseen. The experimenter makes many interesting observations. For instance, we take a piece of iron and hold it against a magnet. Starting from low alternations and running up higher and higher we feel the impulses succeed each other faster and faster, get weaker and weaker, and finally disappear. We then observe a continuous pull; the pull, of course, is not continuous; it only appears so to us; our sense of touch is imperfect.
We may next establish an arc between the electrodes and observe, as the alternations rise, that the note which accompanies alternating arcs gets shriller and shriller, gradually weakens, and finally ceases. The air vibrations, of course, continue, but they are too weak to be perceived; our sense of hearing fails us.
Just another video to check out....@RStiffler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8X5T8D-B0
Just another video to check out....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8X5T8D-B0
Almost looks like 90 degree coupling... hummThe orientation is not critical, showing only slight variation when moved through 360'. Primary advantage is twofold; 1) the load does not reflect back into the driver. 2) multiple pickups can be used to separate loads without increased demand of the driver. Note also the pickup is screen, solid foil will not work. This may appear as straight capacitor coupling, although it is not. The small size as compared to the various coil configurations, yet additional gain obtained, removes capacity as a primary consideration.
I am not sure what we are looking at here. Is this the shielding from some cable that's been stripped off or is it a flat mesh? A photo taken at an angle could help... ;)I will get the specs on the web site after the vid, but it is copper screen ~1/2" dia. and the same length as the ferrite core. Sorry I can not be exact, I'm not at the lab. Hope to get vid up today, that should hlp.
The orientation is not critical, showing only slight variation when moved through 360'. Primary advantage is twofold; 1) the load does not reflect back into the driver. 2) multiple pickups can be used to separate loads without increased demand of the driver.This is great Dr.Stiffler.
Let me be a little clearer on the statement of capacitive coupling.QuoteThe orientation is not critical, showing only slight variation when moved through 360'. Primary advantage is twofold; 1) the load does not reflect back into the driver. 2) multiple pickups can be used to separate loads without increased demand of the driver.This is great Dr.Stiffler.
So multiple loads does not affect the driver, impressive. So you say it is not capacitance because with the approach of your body it does not add to the output but reduces it, right? The opposite of other RF circuits.
Do you have the theory behind all this planned out? When can we read it?
Fausto.
@allcanadianNo, I was using video so I could see a single pulse in action, then I captured a single frame from the video and converted it to a jpeg photo. Have you ever tried to get a single 200 microsecond scope shot with a digital camera? ;D One try and I knew there was no way in hell that was going to work.
Did you already post a video ?
Where ?
Hey doc,Makes no difference where you connect the collector wire.
thanks for the new video, I got some questions about it (duh, obviously).
Does it matter where you connect the collector to the screen? In the video it's connected in the middle, but will it matter if it was on the side or off the center? I remember with the antenna coils when I was testing various locations of the 9 wind primary, its position matter in relation to performance of the setup.
You mention in the video a feedback to the power supply that occurs at the moment of discharge of the capacitor. If you have replaced the power supply with let's say a gel battery or a lead-acid one, would the batter be receiving a charging each time the capacitor discharges, basically keeping the battery alive for a prolonged period than normal?
Dr Stiffler,Could not cut a deal with a supplier, seems I don't use enough parts in my circuits to make it worth there time.
This is an awesome circuit with really interesting characteristics. Holy crap! Yes I finally plugged in a soundcard and listened to the dialog along with the videos. Killer stuff, I'm quite impressed! I know some EE's that will probably be seriously bothered by this. Now they won't be able to sleep either......Ha Ha Ha Ha hA Ah aH ahhhh! Sorry! You know I'm going to spend some money on parts. You're really from Jameco aren't you!!!!???? Nice deal. Will post results when I get them, I mean the wife to give me some of the money I make working......Honey! Where is my catalog?.... ;D 8) 8)
Hi Doc,
I will upload a diagram 'here' tomorrow, seems can not upload a tif and I am on a UMPC that only does tifs.
@StefanHi Doc,
I will upload a diagram 'here' tomorrow, seems can not upload a tif and I am on a UMPC that only does tifs.
I enabled now TIF upload.
Please let us know, why you can use this now
without the ferrite cores.
Does it even run better with the ferrite cores or more bad ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
I find the growing waveform shown in the video very interesting.The scope is not defective. This same waveform can be observed on another Tek and a Fluke.
Why is that happening? Could the gain on the Scope meter be defective? It almost looks like it since the waveform looks the same and doesn't change shape, but we see a scaling of it with time.
EM
... it was indeed again a condition of capacity to the 'Spatial Lattice' that was allowing the coupling and excess energy.
You can not, wait let me clear that up, I can not access the 'Spatial Lattice' other than by the coupling being of a capacitive nature. I have never achieved (to my knowledge) coupling via coils, resistors, transistor or diodes alone. The exception is of course the conditions under which the capacity of the diodes in an AV Plug present an interface.... it was indeed again a condition of capacity to the 'Spatial Lattice' that was allowing the coupling and excess energy.
Dr Stiffler,
Could you please elaborate further regarding your comment about "condition of capacity". Would this condition relate to the electric charge first entering the circuit?
Thank you,
- Schpankme
... The capacitive coupling I am referring to is the coupling to the 'Spatial Lattice' that is taking place between the screen and lattice and the resulting inflow being converted by the coil in a conventional inductive way. Once energy enters 3space it appears and is the same as the normal EMF we all work with. Did this help?
A good example is the last circuit and video (9.75), the capacity from the copper screen measured to the inner coil is ~ 7.7pF. So as some say the VHF (HF) from the 'Exciter' (collector) is being capacitive coupled to the AV Plug and doing the charging of the power cap. I would challenge anyone to build the circuit and replace the screen and the coil with a 7.7pF cap and get the circuit to charge the power capacitor. A close look at the circuit will explain the difference here, one needs to explain how the coil which has one end grounded is forming a capacitor with the screen that is charging the power cap. I would very much like to see how some one would draw this in conventional symbols and get it to work in a conventional simulations program.
@FritzA good example is the last circuit and video (9.75), the capacity from the copper screen measured to the inner coil is ~ 7.7pF. So as some say the VHF (HF) from the 'Exciter' (collector) is being capacitive coupled to the AV Plug and doing the charging of the power cap. I would challenge anyone to build the circuit and replace the screen and the coil with a 7.7pF cap and get the circuit to charge the power capacitor. A close look at the circuit will explain the difference here, one needs to explain how the coil which has one end grounded is forming a capacitor with the screen that is charging the power cap. I would very much like to see how some one would draw this in conventional symbols and get it to work in a conventional simulations program.
We need a distributed computing platform for finite-element electro-dynamic simulations !
Another way would be to use a standard network analyzer. hehe.
rgds.
@FritzA good example is the last circuit and video (9.75), the capacity from the copper screen measured to the inner coil is ~ 7.7pF. So as some say the VHF (HF) from the 'Exciter' (collector) is being capacitive coupled to the AV Plug and doing the charging of the power cap. I would challenge anyone to build the circuit and replace the screen and the coil with a 7.7pF cap and get the circuit to charge the power capacitor. A close look at the circuit will explain the difference here, one needs to explain how the coil which has one end grounded is forming a capacitor with the screen that is charging the power cap. I would very much like to see how some one would draw this in conventional symbols and get it to work in a conventional simulations program.
We need a distributed computing platform for finite-element electro-dynamic simulations !
Another way would be to use a standard network analyzer. hehe.
rgds.
Fritz, are you bored?
From a person that appears to be very intelligent you are also a master at the art of interjection...
An ejaculatory utterance seems senseless here, so give the followers real hard data. If you can put my work to bed, get to it...... Otherwise please get a good book to utilize your time.
Food for thought, strictly Hypothetical.....
Many years back Dr. Harold Aspden published a paper on obtaining energy with cylindrical capacitors, resonant circuit and a high voltage for initial excitation; a starting point with the current idea is http://www.aspden.org.uk/3.html
Take a look at both his very first circuit (without the multiple ring capacitor) and the current circuit, it takes little in imagination to wonder what would happen if one were to drive such a circuit with an AV Plug. Better yet forget AC as in SEC and drive it with DC into an impedance followed by a AV Plug set of diodes and the capture circuit.
Am I the only one that sees something similar?
Time to pull out the hundreds of dollars of copper cylinders and take a quick look, maybe.
Anyone wish to comment that may have followed this???
Dr Stiffler,My work was/is not intended to be what Dr. Aspden wrote about, but I have followed him for some years and did set out to try his capacitor idea and did order a couple hundred dollars worth of copper to do it. About the time I was setting up he published a paper that the two plate idea 'did not' work. (can no longer find that paper) if I remember right he said that it would require over 100kv to work and that was not practical. Then the multi plate version appeared. If my work is in some subliminal way what he is talking about of course is open to discussion.
I quote Harold Aspden;
Harold Aspden, 26th June 2007
"However, if that electron flow pulsates and there are connections to draw electron current from that central electrode then the pulsation implies a recurring sequence of charge and discharge. That 'magic capacitor' function is then harnessed."
Are you showing us a possible example of Harold's above reference given that the diodes are also capacitors? Diodes are highly nonlinear correct? Hmmmmm? I've seen some strange things in radio front ends with pin diodes. Never looked much further than restoring the circuit to design specifications though. Shame on me. Fundamentally your circuits and Aspdens' examples are very similar, aside from the fact that you are energizing open inductors, which certainly raises eyebrows even to the uninitiated, but is a relatively common practice in radio and then a complete diode loop containing the load LED's which just leaves folks with a blank stare and comment. " If that works, I want to see it!" Unfortunately for me I'm not quite sure how to write all of my loop equations for some of the circuit :) :) ? The similarities in fig's 1 and 2 of lecture #27 to the present circuits are noted and I will have to study them in depth as time permits.
Am I any where near on target or completely nuts????? The EE's I spoke of are waiting for me to demo this to them, just like I said. Parts on order payday ;D ;D ;D Neat stuff!
Nice Work Doc...................Jim
Hello Dr. Stiffler,Sorry for not answering your first.
in a previous post I had posted some questions, but did only now realize, that I had not understood the circuit layout presented in video 9.75.
I had thought the SEC Exciter is connected to the coil and the copper screen cylinder acts as a energy pickup/converter of the secondary, i.e. as pickup for the "AV branch".
I do now realize that it is in fact the other way round:
The copper screen cylinder is part of the The SEC Exciter and the antenna coil acts as a pickup, seemingly reacting to electrostatic/capacitive disturbance in space, "transforming" this disturbance to a current flow in the secondary (i.e. AV-plug).
I hope I got this right.
It would be interesting to know, whether it is possible to place an additional antenna coil (with a larger core-diameter) around the outside of the copper screen cylinder.
I envisage an arrangement, where the copper screen cylinder is sandwiched between two coaxial coils, i.e sandwiched between the inner coil (which you have already in place) and an outer one (which would have to be added).
I wonder whether it would be possible, to successfully attach secondary circuitry including a load to such an additional pickup, without causing dampening of the effect on the first.
Maybe by discharging both pickups simultaneously !?
However, in the meantime you seemingly found a more efficient way to "melt your neons".
Without the Sidac !?
Congratulations.
How did you do it?
Hello Dr. Stiffler,Sorry for not answering your first.
in a previous post I had posted some questions, but did only now realize, that I had not understood the circuit layout presented in video 9.75.
I had thought the SEC Exciter is connected to the coil and the copper screen cylinder acts as a energy pickup/converter of the secondary, i.e. as pickup for the "AV branch".
I do now realize that it is in fact the other way round:
The copper screen cylinder is part of the The SEC Exciter and the antenna coil acts as a pickup, seemingly reacting to electrostatic/capacitive disturbance in space, "transforming" this disturbance to a current flow in the secondary (i.e. AV-plug).
I hope I got this right.
It would be interesting to know, whether it is possible to place an additional antenna coil (with a larger core-diameter) around the outside of the copper screen cylinder.
I envisage an arrangement, where the copper screen cylinder is sandwiched between two coaxial coils, i.e sandwiched between the inner coil (which you have already in place) and an outer one (which would have to be added).
I wonder whether it would be possible, to successfully attach secondary circuitry including a load to such an additional pickup, without causing dampening of the effect on the first.
Maybe by discharging both pickups simultaneously !?
However, in the meantime you seemingly found a more efficient way to "melt your neons".
Without the Sidac !?
Congratulations.
How did you do it?
Yes! You are 100% right. (electrostatic/capacity) and yes spatial interaction between the coil and the copper frame.
I have not tried your idea of multiple coils, it is a logical thing to try, yet I have not tried it. Was hoping some one that has coils and did the LED circuit might try.
Of all that have posted on what is going on (no offense to anyone) you are the closest.
@BenHello Dr. Stiffler,Sorry for not answering your first.
in a previous post I had posted some questions, but did only now realize, that I had not understood the circuit layout presented in video 9.75.
I had thought the SEC Exciter is connected to the coil and the copper screen cylinder acts as a energy pickup/converter of the secondary, i.e. as pickup for the "AV branch".
I do now realize that it is in fact the other way round:
The copper screen cylinder is part of the The SEC Exciter and the antenna coil acts as a pickup, seemingly reacting to electrostatic/capacitive disturbance in space, "transforming" this disturbance to a current flow in the secondary (i.e. AV-plug).
I hope I got this right.
It would be interesting to know, whether it is possible to place an additional antenna coil (with a larger core-diameter) around the outside of the copper screen cylinder.
I envisage an arrangement, where the copper screen cylinder is sandwiched between two coaxial coils, i.e sandwiched between the inner coil (which you have already in place) and an outer one (which would have to be added).
I wonder whether it would be possible, to successfully attach secondary circuitry including a load to such an additional pickup, without causing dampening of the effect on the first.
Maybe by discharging both pickups simultaneously !?
However, in the meantime you seemingly found a more efficient way to "melt your neons".
Without the Sidac !?
Congratulations.
How did you do it?
Yes! You are 100% right. (electrostatic/capacity) and yes spatial interaction between the coil and the copper frame.
I have not tried your idea of multiple coils, it is a logical thing to try, yet I have not tried it. Was hoping some one that has coils and did the LED circuit might try.
Of all that have posted on what is going on (no offense to anyone) you are the closest.
Good Morning Dr. Stiffler,
Have you measured the current/voltage in the latest AV PLUG and Neon? As there is no pulsing, everything seems to be static so should be very easy to come up with the numbers. Why not a sandwich of shield/coil/shield/coil/shield, etc? I have a very busy day of "Not" fun stuff here but will try to do same thing with shield/coil driven by sig generator as for up to now, I simply can not get your circuit to Osc. (missing something) Too many irons in the fire.
Interesting your description of electrostatic waves in device, rapid rise time of pulse, longitudinal wave (theory) emitted via partial shield, collecton of wave and spatial interaction in coil.(is the coil needed as no longer resonant without core? or another shield type collector would do the same thing with enough area?)........the common thread in many FE devices!
Most interesting to see how this device changes with increased knowledge!
Ben
Hi Dr. Stiffler,@Ben
Got Osc. working, variable coil was way too high, max of 37uh, now about 8-1uh, had to take some turns off, collector RFC was wrong............sheesssss.....can't trust my eyes anymore......
I get about a 120V peak pulse on collector........got to find some screen material for primary of SEC coupling device.....Think I have some in storage. How 'Peaky" is this system with the screen/coil output setup and in your case, what frequency is the basic pulse rate? Darn, more questions. Put me down for one of your boards/kits.
Later
Ben
Output improving with new coil setup.
Bulb is not full brightness, but it is constant, no sidac, no capacitor needed.
Dr. Stiffler,I did not in any way see anything you said as offensive towards me, and I do want to know, because I asked and am not sure in my mind that what I am doing is not in fact and implementation of Dr. Aspdens idea. If so I'm sure he is happy someone has worked towards that goal and if so, I do want to insure he would receive credit for the work. That said, I really feel that many minds come up with similar ideas at one time or another. As Dr. Aspden express himself that maybe his idea is a mere extension on Cooks work, way before Tesla. If my work is really theirs they have credit, I want credit for doing it today.
I did not intend any implication that your work was/is Aspdens work. I see the differences and similarities. No offence intended or taken.....hopefully.
Some questions if I may:
1. Have you posted construction details of your Colpitts Oscillator? Specifically design requirements like Q and the details of the tunable inductance in the base ckt? I notice that you use this circuit in most of the videos when not driving/exciting with an RF genny. Is a collector circuit 22uH choke wound on toroid core suitable? In other words do I need to design a Colpitts Oscillator and if so I would obviously like it to cover the characteristics or be as close to the design you are using? Please just point me in the correct direction and I will study or design as appropriate.
2. The cotton braided litz from the antenna is also fairly consistent in your designs. The cores are not. Excitation of the secondary may change but the geometric orientation seems not to. The Secondary winding of litz wire inside the exciter seems to be common. Skin effect and capacitance?? Reduction or elimination of the primary excitation components induction by moving to the Screen? Is that a copper pipe in the last posting? In your mind/experience is this arrangement and relationship between the excitation element and the excited element necessary. I know, I know, build the damned circuit and find out. I am while I also search through 50 boxes of accumulated components for usable goodies.
Now I'm going to be roaming about with a friggin neon bulb "seeing" what I was not "seeing" before in radios and the embedded systems I work with. It will be fascinating to roam about a locomotive electrical cabinet, carefully I might add, with a neon ;)
Keep up the good work....at least our creative minds are stimulated.........This is like spinning the bicycle wheel, (AV plug), hit it in the right direction and zoom, hit it in the wrong direction and :(. Very interesting.
comments on video 2 by PM:
This circuit is similar to a very common circuit used by thousands of people everyday to power the flash lamps in disposable cameras.
The equation Ronald Stiffler is using for energy in the capacitor is based on the voltage of an open circuit capacitor. The measurements seem to be of the voltage being applied to the capacitor in the circuit. Depending on the circuit, these can be quite different. Therefore his capacitor energy calculations are probably incorrect.
The readings shown on the power supply are 12 volts and 0.120 amps. Power in watts is volts times amps. Power is an instantaneous reading. Energy is power times seconds. Energy is an average reading over time. The power going into the circuit is 12 volts x 0.120 amps = 1.44 watts constantly. The energy going into the circuit is the average power per second. Since the power going into the circuit is constant, the average value will be the same as the constant value. Thus the energy going into the circuit is 1.44 watts-seconds where 1.44 watts is the average value of the power during each second. This energy is then converted to a higher voltage by use of the transformer (apparently to about 114 volts). Since energy is conserved, the energy coming out of the transformer is also 1.44 watt-seconds (with some losses due to heat). This energy can be stored in a capacitor and removed either slowly or quickly as desired. In this case all of the energy added to the capacitor in each second is then removed at the end of the second (if the light is pulsed once per second as stated in the video). Thus an energy of 1.44 watt-seconds is added to and then removed from the capacitor each second. It is not given, but the bulb appears to be on for about 1/10 of each second. Assuming this value, then the average watts going into the bulb during that 1/10 of a second must be 10 x 1.44 = 14.4 watts in order for the energy to be 1.44 watt-seconds (with 0 watts going into bulb when it is off). Remember, energy is the average value of the instantaneous power in watts that is applied during the second. In this case, to get the average power put into the bulb the power in each 1/10 of the second is summed and then divided by 10 > 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 14.4 = 14.4 and 14.4/10 = 1.44. Since the bulb is a 15 watt bulb, it will be bright during the 1/10 second it is consuming 14.4 watts. Thus the circuit performance can easily be explained without ?cold electricity? or ?over unity?.
Note that the primary of the transformer is being fed with an RF frequency signal. It is unclear if this is deliberate or if it is a parasitic oscillation. The open lead on the secondary of the transformer is not actually unconnected at RF frequencies but is connected to other parts of the circuit by the parasitic capacitance of the lead.
So ouput / input is around 170. (Stefan Hartmann; Oct. 11).
Please stop looking through the window and just do the experiments
For me, in doing these experiments, I have seen things that can not be explained with text book understanding. Power-in vs the power-out is only part of the issue.Well, if the Ein vs Eout is not all of the "things you have seen that cannot be explain by textbook understanding", then what else have you seen that cannot be explained?
@ALL
Gentlemen!
Try not to get all worked up again. Here are some thing that will help your confusion.
Power In: It is damn hard to measure (period). On my SEC devices you can filter th hell out of the input and still see artifacts >50MHz. I have been working with RF for 40+ years and never have had a problem similar to making these simple circuits quiet. That is the thing that is most interesting and (maybe) why no one has seen this effect before. Bad, noisy circuit, filter, bypass or throw it away. Conventional EE does not want noise, spikes, jitter, bleed, whatever you want to call it. EE wants stable calm circuits that can show no noise or artifacts on the power rails.
Yes you can quiet these circuits, but that is not the point in measuring input. The lab that (I think) will test this circuit uses a major piece of equipment that has a band width of 20-30khz for True Power. Guess what, SEC will never show OU this way. You need a very expensive digital integrating oscope, something with a sample rate >10MHz, then and only then will the facts appear.
I do not want to make anyone mad or say they are wrong, but someone please show me one of my circuits (working) with a clean set of wires feeding back to the power supply??? Please, I am willing to learn even this far into the game.
Now for output. I have to admit it has to be Heat and this is far from easy or simple, even though the concept is simple. Building a device that gives correct results is damn hard.
You lock away your circuit in a container, hoping the tuning does not change, calibrate the whole instrument with a resistor and DC known current and voltage, determine the 'Offset' for the device, let it site for many 10's of hours to again reach equilibrium, power up your circuit and hope for the best. No adjustment when its in the box, just cross your fingers.
In my lab the device that (hopefully) will be lab tested showed an OU of 2.158 after an 8 hour run. This may sound great, but in the first hour of testing showed an OU of 2.663, it should not have gone down, it must go up or stabilize. So I have fingers, arms and everything crossed. My lab cell (crude) but following all requirements for calorimetry may be in some way hosed and I do not know it. Yet power out in a SEC, because of the high impedance on the output is best left to a calorimeter.
I think I am okay, but maybe the next few weeks will really tell. I do not think I have that much wiggle room.
My device is shown below, 1.5' foam around circuit and water container, cotton batting and two layers of bubble wrap.
!!No disrespect meant here, but to run this circuit for in excess of 20-40 hours for the calorimeter seems to mean I would need something like 1,067F of capacity????@ALL
Gentlemen!
Try not to get all worked up again. Here are some thing that will help your confusion.
Power In: It is damn hard to measure (period). On my SEC devices you can filter th hell out of the input and still see artifacts >50MHz. I have been working with RF for 40+ years and never have had a problem similar to making these simple circuits quiet. That is the thing that is most interesting and (maybe) why no one has seen this effect before. Bad, noisy circuit, filter, bypass or throw it away. Conventional EE does not want noise, spikes, jitter, bleed, whatever you want to call it. EE wants stable calm circuits that can show no noise or artifacts on the power rails.
Yes you can quiet these circuits, but that is not the point in measuring input. The lab that (I think) will test this circuit uses a major piece of equipment that has a band width of 20-30khz for True Power. Guess what, SEC will never show OU this way. You need a very expensive digital integrating oscope, something with a sample rate >10MHz, then and only then will the facts appear.
I do not want to make anyone mad or say they are wrong, but someone please show me one of my circuits (working) with a clean set of wires feeding back to the power supply??? Please, I am willing to learn even this far into the game.
Now for output. I have to admit it has to be Heat and this is far from easy or simple, even though the concept is simple. Building a device that gives correct results is damn hard.
You lock away your circuit in a container, hoping the tuning does not change, calibrate the whole instrument with a resistor and DC known current and voltage, determine the 'Offset' for the device, let it site for many 10's of hours to again reach equilibrium, power up your circuit and hope for the best. No adjustment when its in the box, just cross your fingers.
In my lab the device that (hopefully) will be lab tested showed an OU of 2.158 after an 8 hour run. This may sound great, but in the first hour of testing showed an OU of 2.663, it should not have gone down, it must go up or stabilize. So I have fingers, arms and everything crossed. My lab cell (crude) but following all requirements for calorimetry may be in some way hosed and I do not know it. Yet power out in a SEC, because of the high impedance on the output is best left to a calorimeter.
I think I am okay, but maybe the next few weeks will really tell. I do not think I have that much wiggle room.
My device is shown below, 1.5' foam around circuit and water container, cotton batting and two layers of bubble wrap.
Get yourself some large caps (maybe some super caps). Charge them up then let them run the circuit and take note of the voltage drop within a measured period of time. Then do an RC time calculation. That should give you an idea of how much energy is being drawn. If done right, it could yield some reasonably accurate readings. It would be somewhat the equivalent of a dual slope AD converter. You apply a known load to the cap for a certain time, measure it, and get an error reading. Then charge it up again and measure the load with the charged cap discharges rate and apply your error reading to your math. You can use digital timers. A PIC micro would do this nicely for you. You would have a very accurate instrument that, as far as I can see, would not lie if you did it right. The error value would compensate for any resistance in your relays or FET switching circuits. Also, the switching doesn't have to be fast. Maybe 20 times per second or even less on larger caps.
This is just off the top of my head.
Just another quick update on my progress:
I have most of the Circuit components now. Will measure and adjust if necessary tomorrow. A quick pic of the BB and layout comming together............................Just a couple more components to round up and I'll be tuning for maximum smoke.....I mean maximum out over in...............Jim ;D
Dr Stiffler,The circuit you want to use is at; http://www.stifflerscientific.com/ at the top of the page.
I have measured the tunable on the left and it is intended for the oscillator tuning. I have measured the tunable range as 4.5uH to 9.5uH. It still will not swing the range you are calling for. The larger coil I have not measured yet, I will tomorrow, when I have access to the LCR. I also would love to be able to sweep the coils for Fsr and will have to as I get deeper into this. As a matter of fact I will remeasure and confirm all of my values on a second LCR. I'm also going to use your design for a calorimeter as a starting point. I have various DAQ's available so I intend to automate my calorimeter and I really need to solve a drift issue with my spectrum analyzer, BK Precision 2610, 1.0 GHz. There is so much to do and so little time. I'm going as fast as I can but I need to make sure I understand as much as possible before I go looking for anomalies. The RFC is supposed to 22uH correct? I have seen reference to 2.2uH and 22uH for this same inductor. Can we really call this circuit a Colpitts? I think Stiffler Driver is more appropriate as I haven't been able to visualize the split capacitance characteristic of Colpitts.........We're moving...............Jim
Here is an image of a test unit inside the calorimeter, I placed an arrow to the calibration resistor.
I Have a stupid question for any expert in calorimetry, I want to know what effect phase change will have on overall outcome? It appears that my vaporization is having a marked effect on readings.
Here is an image of a test unit inside the calorimeter, I placed an arrow to the calibration resistor.
I Have a stupid question for any expert in calorimetry, I want to know what effect phase change will have on overall outcome? It appears that my vaporization is having a marked effect on readings.
While I'm not claiming to be an expert in calorimetry, I would expect, in a continuous material, that if the temperature of the material were such that there was a state transition occurring the temperature would plateau while energy input continued until the state transition completed then once again continue to rise? Just a poke at it. What is with the blackening of the test circuit PCB? What do you suspect is vaporizing? Evaporation of the water in the calorimeter tube itself?......Jim
And here's another illustration to show what Dr. Stiffler is doing.This site seems lost again, so this may post a million times. :-(
He is using a wire mesh over the whole length of the coil, but I believe a small pad towards the top will work just fine.
He did report that a solid foil cylinder will NOT WORK, and I hope that's clear to everyone why it does not work. It's a ONE TURN COIL and it will damped the oscillations due to it's low resistance (transformer action with a turn ration of n:1, where 'n' is large)
However, a mesh like he uses, has surface inductance as well and won't choke the oscillations, but it's better to use a pad or strips instead of a full cyclinder.
EM
P.S. The question remains, where is the excess energy produced, IF ANY? Is it due to the resonant nature of the coil? Possibly. People with Tesla coils can do awesome things and light lots of lightbulbs. What about the AV plug? Is that what's doing it? We have to realize that there is stray capacitance even in the AV plug, or else it won't work. On a bread board behind the plastic we have strips of metal that form a capacitor lattice, and at the high frequencies we use, they can have very little resistance to AC (reactance is low). What I showed here is by no means conclusive. I'm just trying to illustrate what I'm seeing and understanding. Dr Stiffler tends to talk in terms of esoteric notions of space lattice energy , etc.., but in actuality there is no such thing. The lattice is not in space, per say, but it's the COMPONENTS themselves that are being used to form this lattice, and they have resonant MODES. We call this science, ELECTRONICS, LOL :D
The bottom figure will illustrate what Dr. Stiffler is doing different then Tesla, as far as driving the resonance of the secondary.
EM
P.S. In actuality there is capacitance to the ground plane from each turn of the coil, or towards other near by objects. This will rob the coil of some of it's high potential. In essence there is a voltage divider at each turn and some energy is lost due to displacement currents. But for all practical purposes, what is shown is a good model.
armagdn03@EMDevicesQuoteOuch! Tesla used magnetic induction only and not capacitive or dielectric induction? hmmmmm, maybe you should take another look at Tesla If this were true, no need for pancake coils, "faster than light" propagation, single
wire power transfer (which Tesla invented first) etc...
Yes, now you understand. Tesla used only magnetic induction using the primary coil to drive at the bottom, and Dr Stiffler drives the coil towards the top by CAPACITIVE COUPLING. You are right, we can do without the pancake coil (or primary few turn coil) that Tesla used. The magic really happens in the secondary at resonance, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU DRIVE IT TO RESONANCE.
For those interested, there is a third way to drive the secondary, and that is BOTTOM FED. You simply connect one leg of the coil to the oscillator output (coil over ground plane) and the other coil end becomes the high voltage terminal relative to ground.
RStifflerQuoteBecause if you had you would have seen the error in you hypothetical appraisal.
Dr. Stiffler, I find your work unique, don't misunderstand, but I do chuckle a bit at your explanations, hence my light hearted comments. I hope you don't take too much offense.
So what ERROR in my hypothetical appraisal do you see?
By the way, thanks for the pictures, but I did NOT notice you were in fact using a split ring.(I saw a mesh) I see the ring now. Looks like you have your RF wits about you, it's after all common sense (if your an RF engineer) Most people on this forum are just basic experimenters, and judging by their explanations, they're off in La La land. I hope you don't gravitate that way either.
So, I just like to tell it like I see it. In a way I'm trying to help you out by keeping you in the realm of reason. There is no sense in jumping to esoteric explanations when they are already explained by conventional theory, wouldn't you agree? Your hoping to write a paper and you might just have to get past me to publish, so look at this as a free review :)
Have you done careful measurements of Amplitude and phase at all the nodes? Have you applied conventional theory first and shown where it falls short? You have to do these things before you move on to other explanations.
I have not seen this type of excitation of a many turn secondary before, so you have something unique there. However, that doesn't mean I've seen all. I've seen some circuits that make use of resonators in microwave circuits, and there's lots of topologies that work.
My new setup:
I checked your concepts and they work, see figure below. The few turn coil that's close to the left secondary is just for capacitive coupling (didn't have time to make a nice pad just yet). the small coil on the carpet with the ferrite is for adjustment (I slide the ferrite through it) I get beautiful sine waves, but I'm slightly out of the resonant range, so I might need to order some more capacitors to get exactly or modify my small coil. Stay tuned...
EM
RStifflerYes I have heard from the first proposed lab. It isn't going to happen. Minor NDA change request, no problem, yet when the lead for the testing makes a statement of "or rather extract from some novel source" which shows at once a bias, and the fact for some reason they are limited to 14VDC as a power source, results in a total deal breaker.Quote1) Unless you use a 100:1 scope probe on the collector of the 'Exciter', you will change and even cancel what I state as operational conditions.
2) Image #1 shows what you will see on the collector under ideal conditions. The trace at the bottom is from a sniffer coil placed next to the power coil. Nowhere, except in the sniffer coil will you see any wave form that even approaches a sine wave. If you are seeing a sine wave on the collector, it is not a replication.
3) Image #2 is an expanded view under the same conditions.
4) Image #3 is again another view of expanded sniffer coil coupling.
thanks for those scope shots. I agree with you, I have sinewaves you have spikes, not a replication yet. It's just a matter of time and I'll get the same scope shots.
Do you know why you are getting the spikes? I got those with another circuit, and most people that have played around with blocking oscillators will recognize them right away. Inductive kickback. An it looks like they are driving the resonance of the coil every so often. If you sped up the spikes you could drive on every cycle and then the magnification would be phenomenal.
don't have any suspicions about me, I'm not out to attack anybody, I'm out to defend common sense !! LOL :D
anyway, happy experimenting, Have you heard back from the lab? I'm currious to see what they say.
EM
Dr Stiffler,Yes and No.
I would phrase the testing request in a different way to get around this. I would have them test the systems THERMAL CONVERSION EFFICINECY, and tell them you want to know how much of the input energy is converted to heat vs. radiated away. Don't mention anything about excess energy.
Now, if they test and find out they get over 100% heat output vs input, they will let you know with a puzzled look on their faces. You can then tell them you can NOT have extra energy generation, so their testing methods are faulty and they're incompetent, and ask for a refund !! LOL :D
Speaking of input voltage, will your circuit work with let's say 9V? How about 14 V DC? Why or why not?
EM
original circuits ... will work at 12V ... excess energy can be obtained from 20-24V range ... there is a voltage level that must be present on the AV Plug before a measurable amount of energy can be observed ...
All,Need to get that analyzer repaired as you will be excited with what you see.
I have now gathered everthing but the SIDAC. I managed to get my hands on a spool of the LITZ wire also so fooling with the AM loops is no longer an issue. I'm building my SEC on single sided solder pad prototype board. I don't have unlimited time so my progress isn't very fast but I'm steady moving forward. I hope to start getting some preliminary measurements this week and fool around with the tuning of the oscillator. It should prove interesting. My spectrum analyzer has some dried out electrolytics it would appear. The drift drives me crazy but I will fix that shortly also. I am assured that the view will be very interesting. Next in the project plan will be the calorimeter to measure output power. The input power I will attempt to measure using a high speed digital scope and a current probe. Once this has been accomplished and the results look good I will move the device into the lab, where all of the calibrated equipment resides and see if I can validate Dr. Stifflers circuit performance. More to come......Stay tuned boys and girls.......... :-*
Dr Stiffler,Told you that it would be interesting ;D
Where is all the nonlinear mixing occurring? The poor transistor or the crazy complex impedance hooked to it? Silly question, the crazy complex impedance and an oscillator should produce things like this. The spectral distribution is interesting and if I were looking at that in the shop the first thing I would suspect is that some of it was I-Mod between the SEC and Spectrum analyzer RF circuits. Damn I have to get this critter running. The second thing I would be worried about would be the FCC. Obviously when we see something like this in a commercial radio unit we are obliged to "cure" it. 520KHz is the bottom of the AM broadcast band, the AM loop antenna or copy of it? Did you remove windings from the commercial loop cores to use as secondaries for other arrangements? Now this next observation may or may not be of value but they seem related. Some posts back I said that I remember seeing strange operation in a radio front end and it had to deal with switched antenna runs and PIN diodes. The spectrum analyzer would look like this for short times, called splatter, back through the receiver and cause communication interruptions. We removed the diodes from the circuits and the problems went away. Funny thing was only one of the antennas was being used out of three. No termination was provided to them so two of them floated off to where ever. Never looked any further than that because we quit having communication issues. These particular radios were operating in the UHF bands and required immediate attention lest the transmitters started following suit. One of the bizarre symptoms that came and went with this was a serial communication chip that would melt down for no damned good reason that I ever found and also went away with the comms problems. The chips no longer go down and there is no explanation. All is well in EE land.
In any case, as you can see I'll be firing up pretty close to what you have posted. Cool beans, sorry I'm not moving faster!
JIM
Told you that it would be interesting ;DVeeerrryy Interestiiiinnnggg! KneeDeep!
That was just to get you thinking, look at something better!
The first light geometry will be something like this with the supply and filter boards below the working boards. ;)
A link of possible interest... 8) 8)
http://lanoswww.epfl.ch/studinfo/courses/cours_nonlinear_de/extras/De_Feo(2003)_Bifurcations%20in%20the%20Colpitts%20Oscillator_From%20Theory%20to%20Practice.pdf
Sorry Doc......I'll spend months in the mathematics of this paper. You see if there is anything of value. So what are we thinking here, the SEC is indicated by a broadband increase in the local spectral power? What is the noise floor on the SA? -100dBm or -110dBm ? Are you thinking the coherence is of the random noise and equally random frequency distribution? Somehow we get the randomness to not be so random? Isn't that patterning in chaos? God now I'll never sleep.............................. :P
Well......it doesn't look like my components will get delivered until Tuesday or so but here is a shot, I know its fuzzy, of the exciter and LITZ wire secondary. I secured an old thermos cooler and will begin setting up my calorimeter and winding various secondaries this weekend.You did ask and I must not have answered, 'Did I recommend a data capture unit'? Well as you must know, there are many out there, yet for a 12 bit accuracy and multi functional unit that is external and USB coupled, I like the LabJack U12. It can take some time to calibrate, but you need not do it often. There are PCI boards etc., but I like the USB approach for attachments. The LabJack is good enough for general lab work and we use a number of them.
Best regards,
JIM
Dr. Stiffler,As of today I will be providing the calorimetric run data on the Stiffler Scientific site. Go to StifflerScientific.com and at the bottom you will find links to the calibration files and the run files. The files to be shown are starting yesterday with a calibration run followed by an in progress test run. There will be at least four runs posted in this series.
In the effort to reduce stray C, have you also shortened the LITZ secondary leads? I'm considering cutting the micarta down to much smaller footprint and mounting to the PCB between the oscillator and AV development area. Comments?
JIM
Ron,
A few questions in regard to your calorimetry results:
1) What do you mean by COP? (Coefficient of Performance)
2) Why is the PC board shown at the bottom of the webpage, almost all blackened out? I'm prepping my board, hopefully, for a good cooking! ;D Is it really heat damage from the experiment? That I can't tell you just yet. ;D If so, how much power are you putting in? EM-the spreadsheets behind the links at the DOC's website have the data necessary to calculate the answer to your question.
EM
Ron,@EMdevices
A few questions in regard to your calorimetry results:
1) What do you mean by COP?
2) Why is the PC board shown at the bottom of the webpage, almost all blackened out? Is it really heat damage from the experiment? If so, how much power are you putting in?
EM
Ron,
A few questions in regard to your calorimetry results:
1) What do you mean by COP? (Coefficient of Performance)
2) Why is the PC board shown at the bottom of the webpage, almost all blackened out? I'm prepping my board, hopefully, for a good cooking! ;D Is it really heat damage from the experiment? That I can't tell you just yet. ;D If so, how much power are you putting in? EM-the spreadsheets behind the links at the DOC's website have the data necessary to calculate the answer to your question.
EM
@All
If the UPS man isn't lying my components should be here today. In these latest pictures I have posted the secondary is being held in place by ceramic insulation discs. The exciter is 1" copper tube. I'm about to move into the low level start-up and tuning of the circuit. My apologies for the crappy pictures, I have an older digital camera. I will have to get some hi resolution shots of my device replication attempt, if anyone is interested. I'm also working on the calorimeter for the P-in vs P-out test runs. My results will follow when I obtain them.
@Dr. Stiffler,
How significant is the RF radiation from the SEC and are you accounting for that also in the P-out total? If so would you be so kind as to share the technique. I suppose one would have calculate or measure the SEC radiation pattern. "NO!!!! Not Smith Charts! Honey! He's gonna make me do math again!" ;D
Thang's is-a start'n ta heat-up. 8) 8)
More to follow, you can be sure.
JIM
thanks for the answers guys. Loki, the board is coming along beautifully, keep up the good work !
so, if the COP is Pout/Pin, then it would appear we have an overunity situation. I wonder though, if perhaps this is just due to measurement uncertainty, since some of the runs are COP<1. The results are encouraging for sure.
more questions:
I guess I'm a bit confused about the construction of the coil. Are you using a solid copper cylinder? Then pasting another metalic strip onto it? See the anotated photo.
EM
Ok Ron, that makes sense now, thanks. So indeed you are using a solid conductor cylinder and the strip is only for attachment to avoid heating up the whole cyclinder for soldering purposes. I guess what threw me off was your initial comments when you were using the copper mesh, and said that a solid pipe would not work, I guess it does work with some adjustments. Very good.@Emdevices
Just some comments from my tesla setup. While in operation, I move the oscilloscope probe up and down the length of the coil to observe the E-fields. Just like predicted, I get a 1/4 wavelength mode that's very prominent towards the top, then in the middle the 1/2 wavelength mode is prominent, and further down I see what appears like a 2/3 wavelength mode perhaps, but they are all mixed in so it's hard to tell without a spectrum analyzer.
So, if you are using a solid cylinder, then it stands to reason that perhaps you might be exciting the 1/2 wavelength mode more prominently then the others. This is because the 1/2 mode has high voltage in the center of the coil, and high current at the ends, which means that if you short circuit the coil it will continue to oscillate just fine. I'm currious if that's the case with your coil.
EM
@drStiffler@AhuraMazda
In one of your previous posts you mentioned you noticed dinural effects from the SEC. Are you still of the same opinion and
did your tests confirm this
@Loki
You have the show for about a week, then I will upload to YouTube a Scalar Wars video, well just how it could be done. In coming days I need to mount the VLT on a board along with another Heat series.
Sound great an hope its more fun than frustration.
After the test gear was warm and stating 'In Calibration' I turned the Exciter back ON.
Strange the radio was not affected. Looking at the SA showed what I expected to see
from the Exciter. I sat a few minutes' thinking this to be very strange indeed, then 'Total
Silence' and from the corner of my eye I caught the SA screen go wild.
So to end this Saturday Sci-Fi short story I conclude with a picture from the SA.
How to pull energy from the Energy Lattice that a SEC Exciter has opened. The following picture shows at the bottom of the image a light bulb being driven by a coil inside of the copper outer tube. The light on the left is a melting neon. The white light is totally driven by the coil inside of the small copper tube.KneeDeep....KneeDeep......I know I've said it before, but I'll still say it again...KneeDeep
Sorry Loki, I know I said it was your stage for awhile, but this has to go out.
One word of advice, watch out how much power you put out in the radio spectrum. The FCC will come knocking on the door, maybe even the FAA if you're close to an airport, or if you're in another country then the US, your local authorities perhaps.@Emdevices
Better yet, if you have a Spectrum Analyzer, you can try a rough measurement of radiated power, like they do officially in EMI labs (3 meter radiated emissions tests etc..) to see if you have energy above the CISPR specifications for radiated emissions.
One last note, when you drive with a single transistor a multi-mode capable resonator, like you're doing in this case, the modes of resonance can change abruptly. My mini-Tesla does the same , but it's way more stable since I'm driving it with the separate Colpitts oscillator (which has it's own frequency), but still, if I get my hand near the main resonator coil, I can "snap" the resonance from one mode to another, which is interesting. Mode locking certainly happens quite easily even with the Colpitts arrangement. These modes and the interactions they have with the circuitry is not to terribly hard to understand, but it can be mystifying at times.
My goal is to create as stable a resonator as I can. I'm contemplating a crystal oscillator to keep it on frequency.
EM
@All & @ Loki
Loki, sometimes a person wonders why they take such care. In you case your followed you own knowledge sprinkled with a bit of input from me and build a real nice 'Thing', all in the hope of greater control and ease in measurement and not wanting to fight the stray artifacts that exist. What I mean is my information to you was based on all the smaller circuits (coil arrangements). Until I saw your VLT I wondered if it would work at all, so I built one, now many. In short you want to include the ability to move that inner coil and observe the Spectrum while doing it. There is a sweet spot where it goes 'WILD' as shown on some of my images. I know what you mean but haven't sustained it yet!
Second I am bothered by you low currents (like none), this indicates you are not at peak tuning yet. The only times I have seem no current is at lower voltages, and at the same time the supply voltage goes up (go figure 8). I'm beyond doubting the panel meters and will be measuring current via ground leg shunt. I will have accurate measurements shortly. I cannot believe this circuit draws no current! But also I was taught to do things like take a few turns off the tank coil so the oscillator adjustment peak drops off more in the center of the adjustment range of the tank resonance. Yes I want to explore more range of adjustment, just slowly LOL ;D
I know you have not done it yet and will, but it is so insightful to also watch the spectrum while varying the supply voltage. Linear increase in V-supply is a standard test from the cookbook Sir! I use it regularly along with fast and slow rise transient to monitor for circuit instability. The SEC shows a very interesting changing spectrum based on V-IN from 0 VDC to 21.5 VDC in just the manual linear increase test, thats all I've done so far. At the shop I would have used a programmable supply. Like where you see the stair steps in the tuning, you will observe rather pronounced Power steps from one voltage to the next, (far from any linear curve) more like log.
And yes that pipe organ is not far off ;D
Just thinking out loud, with a Near Field of 1/3 wavelength in diameter and power dropping inversely with distance, yet this thing near field don't drop, where to put all the stuff is an interesting problem. Oh I certainly agree with that one, I made a picture in the spectrum analyzer display with my coffee mug this morning. ;D
My mini-Tesla does the same , but it's way more stable since I'm driving it with the separate Colpitts oscillator (which has it's own frequency), but still, if I get my hand near the main resonator coil, I can "snap" the resonance from one mode to another, which is interesting
My eye's just refuse to be tuned to these wavelengths so I can't see squat emitting from the device but an infrared detector sheet showed the deal. Now it's getting good! 8) 8) 8)
Loki67671,@Rosphere
Thank you for the clear photos of your nice work. :)My eye's just refuse to be tuned to these wavelengths so I can't see squat emitting from the device but an infrared detector sheet showed the deal. Now it's getting good! 8) 8) 8)
You're kidding!? :o I wonder how many builders had given-up on an idea because they could not detect what was happening with their own eyes: "Nothing from the LED. Another waste of time. Moving right along."
Thanks for sharing. Who wants to search: "infrared detector sheet?"
I'm off to work now. >:( :-\ 8)
Why the obsession with lighting leds? Wouldn't it make more sense to measure the voltage on the output? That would make it easier to compare with the input and to see if there is OU.
All this talk about how bright the leds are and how many are lit seems like a waste of time.
And why doesn't Stiffler allow his supposed OU device to be tested by a professional testing company?
Loki,
Could you please try a light sensor attached to your oscilloscope and tell us if the light is indeed not just pulsing faster than the eye might be able to recognise ?
Regards,
Dean
Why the obsession with lighting leds? Wouldn't it make more sense to measure the voltage on the output? That would make it easier to compare with the input and to see if there is OU.@canam101
All this talk about how bright the leds are and how many are lit seems like a waste of time.
And why doesn't Stiffler allow his supposed OU device to be tested by a professional testing company?
Loki,
Could you please try a light sensor attached to your oscilloscope and tell us if the light is indeed not just pulsing faster than the eye might be able to recognise ?
Regards,
Dean
@Dean,
I will attempt that if it looks like some stable measurement can be made there. When the circuit is in the last state shown I have to try and tune "off" while my hands and body are coupled to the circuit. The system reacts sometimes when I move an arm at 3 feet from it! And then back out of the coupling and hope the critter stabilizes where I was trying to measure it. If not it's back in and tweak, back out and hope. Some of the states I've seen this device in while I'm coupled and actively tuning it I haven't been able to reproduce without my body being part of the field.
I will try and do that for you if it is of value and in fact I can do it. What is your suspicion here? The reverse recovery time of the 1N4148 is 4ns. I'm afraid I don't quite follow? I've used pulse width modulation and chopping techniques to control LED intensity for quite some time myself, years as a matter of fact. ;D
Bottom line is, I'm not using LED's to measure anything "official" with anyway! This circuit is being explored with the LED's as a convenient means of CRUDE visual detection of performance while an understanding of some of it's characteristics is obtained and the "light show" is for armchairs that don't build anything except posterior cellulite and calloused fingertips. Sorry form of entertainment this is! Any attempt at efficiencies or COP calculations will be done using calorimetry, Period! You may proceed as you wish! 8) 8) 8)
Best regards,
JIM
Something strange happened when i was trying some experiments on cold electricity, i attached 2 Photos:
1 the mini circuit, a coil and 3 LED`s " DR. Stiffler style setup" and a resistor of 1 meg :
two of the LED's are slightly illuminating when i touch the coil with my thumb ; the circuit is grounded to water pipes.
Now i tried to come further using capacitors. The lights remain the same even shotcircuiting the capacitors
( Or taking them out like in the pix). i have no explanation ..... ??? Do our Bodies have longitudinal wave resonance?
someone knows more?
( sorry for my bad English)
Thank you Dr. Stiffler and Loki67671 for great work.
@Loki67671
Do you see any effects on this baby when magnets are close to it? The reason being, you said "your body" is of great coupling. I wonder if magnetic fields will diminish or amplify those effects.
Thanks in advance,
Fausto.
POSTING TO THIS SITE IS A PAIN IN THE ASS!
Nothing like typing for significant amounts of time just so it can fly off, to who knows where, in the middle of an upload and be lost! SHIT!
@Dr Stiffler,@plengo
this is absolutely fenomenal. I am taking my stuff out and starting again those experiments.
Fausto.
@RStiffler,For what purpose? The Exciter is well documented in this thread and on my web site. The chain diagram for just LED's is a page back. Should be a 10 minute duplication.
Nice work!
Is there any chance you could take a nice big pic of your most recent setup and label each part etc?
Thanks so much for sharing!
Regards,
~D
Does anyone have a scope trace coming out of the SEC exciter?@Feynman
Nevermind, found em!
EDIT: Okay, I gotta replicate this!
Well after my first failure I decided to try it again but this time with more diligence. I succeded but without the motor spining. I have a 3v 250ma motor.@plengo
Input voltage is good from 15v to 20v, from 98ma to 117ma input current. Many chained av plugs each with 3 LEDs and one of them with a neon bulb. All pretty good lit, not fully but very good. The neon fainly lit. Burn fingers to the touch via skin effect.
Video at (soon to be posted).
Scope picture is 10x probe with 5v division and with .1 micro seconds time division. Attaching the probe with the system running does not affect the behavior as long as the probe is on 10x.
Good job Dr. Stiffler.
Fausto.
I`ve been following this tread on and off for a while now, while this is very impressive work, driving a load with one wire, what would be the practical applications?You don't see an advantage?
I`ve been following this tread on and off for a while now, while this is very impressive work, driving a load with one wire, what would be the practical applications?You don't see an advantage?
Doc,I don't think 99% of the people on this thread are into HHO and that is why I ask for email. If there are people that want to see how SEC works here, maybe I can setup a Google group just for it. It is not something I feel just any EE or experimenter should get into. The stuff is nasty and I speak from some really scary explosions where I actually started to count my fingers after realizing I was still alive. Now I feel its part of the family (like a snake).
If we can post to this damned forum, I say we move forward! 8) I have cleaned up my breadboards and barring the need to order supplies and materials am ready to try for replication, and experimentation of course ;D , as we move forward. Electrolysis? It has been my experience that separation of H and O and handling the stuff correctly can be tricky. ::) I have not been very successful at it, but it did make a hell of a fire! :P Hydrogen is mighty impressive stuff and my training extent with it is summed up in balloons filled from a hydrochloric acid reaction with zinc. Fly the balloon with a burning string and BOOOM! Hydrogen has a very impressive explosion! Much respect! Don't know if I'd do it in the house just yet. ;D But I'm willing to learn.
Best regards
Jim
DR STIFFLER 67000 + people have looked in on your thread here a lot of interest !!!!!! please don't let the few nay sayer's represent the MANY PLEASE let AMIGO try to fix this with Stephan this is WAY to important ChetYes I know this, Yet even fixing the problems that exist does not allow me to exclude the noise from the thread. A few noise spikes and everyone is set back for days if not longer not to mention I have zero respect for idiots. So problems will still exist.
So it all boils down to the Avramenko plug, ingenious thing isn't it :)@EMdevices
Thanks for the videos Doc, very good that you tried a motor, How much power are you supplying into the circuit? Can you measure it?
EM
Doc, I was talking about measuring the INPUT power, as in V x I. Stefan asked the same question.Damn, the RPM measurement, that is to simple, I did not even consider that.
So, are you still using your input power filter board, the one you showed in the videos? (I think you showed operation from 24 Volts, and then you showed a series of resistors , for 1 ohm equivalent, so what's the voltage across these?)
But, if you want to measure the power OUTPUT of the motor, just take a simple reading of DC volts at the motor terminals, while fed by RF (ignore the RF ripple), and also measure it's RPM (you can get away with just the RPM, so maybe forget about the voltage if it's a messy waveform). Then you can do a comparative analysis on the motor, and feed it with DC from a variable voltage supply, and set the voltage to what you had before and see if the RPM is the same, it should be pretty close. If not just make sure the RPMs are the same and the motor is positioned the same, so then we can assume the power disipation is equivalent. Then just measure the current and voltage and you have your power output to the motor.
EM
This is the PITTS!
Here is the coil info I promised, but I had to put the pictures on MY site, take MY TIME to do an htm page to display then. This is silly.........
@Dr. Stiffler,@plengo
I just ordered the forms for the custom coils, should come soon and I will retry the experiment with my new 10 motors.
Your message to youtube did not go through but I guess it is ok because I can see in your page your explanation in how to make the coil.
Thanks again.
Fausto.
@Dr StifflerYes I have.
Wow at the new video! Have you measured COP?
@All
Looking for a motor, no problem, it runs a cooling fan just fine.
CBE 12V 160mA, brushless
See the picture; stifflerscientific.com/images/bigfan01.gif
Wow, a whole page of posts in such a short time, excellent. :)@Amigo
About measuring RPM, what's wrong with buying a laser based RPM meter. The unit I got off of eBay was very cheap and it works great, came from Hong Kong in a week's time, you just can't beat that. :)
@Dr.Stiffler,
Is the google group going to focus exclusively on the electrolysis or will it be a progression of what you listed prior (1-2-3-?) ? I'd like to sign up if it's not going to be electrolysis only, otherwise I do not think I could contribute.
Thanks.
Electrolysis of pure water is very slow, and can only occur due to the self-ionization of water. Pure water has an electrical conductivity about one millionth that of seawater. It is sped up dramatically by adding an electrolyte (such as a salt, an acid or a base).
Holy smokes! What is going on in that cell? How are you determining the gas product(s) ?@Feynman
2 H2O(l) -> 2 H2(g) + O2(g) ian/koen are you reading this?
Where is the oxygen going? :o :o ;D
EDIT: are there any deposits on the bolt?
EDIT: Wow...QuoteElectrolysis of pure water is very slow, and can only occur due to the self-ionization of water. Pure water has an electrical conductivity about one millionth that of seawater. It is sped up dramatically by adding an electrolyte (such as a salt, an acid or a base).
DR STIFFLER this is amazing one splayed wire in pure water with that [what]power? Stephan you gotta make the DOC happy here Chet@ramset
DR STIFFLER I have an extremely qualifed family member that I would love to rub this in his nose so he can wake up that is why I would love to replicate this Chet@ramset
The only way I will be happy is when qualified peers take my work seriously :-\
@AmigoThe only way I will be happy is when qualified peers take my work seriously :-\
Hi Doc,
I am not sure why do you want to impress the mainstream scientists. They will be the last one to acknowledge anything outside the normal because their (comfy) positions depend on upholding and maintaining status quo. :)
@Amigo
You want the truth, may not be what you want to hear 8)
Been there, done that and loved every minute of it. Loved the perks, the back slapping and the respect. Because of my strange ideas I am forever banished from Oz.
My work will benefit few unless it is taken into the mainstream, greater minds than mine must look at all the possible routes this can take, new dreamers, new thinkers. doing this in basement, garages and corner closets will insure it remains another novelty in some crank "Was it real" journal.
The mainstream? Good lord! The lifestyle? Priceless! I'm pretty happy here right now! Garage used to mean something now I'm able to assemble in my "basement" or "garage" what would have been confined to the professional laboratory 15 to 20 years ago from the industrial worlds garbage. :P Hot DAMN! Plengo is right on. Man I seen some neat stuff but this be the cats meow! Sweet! I took Ron's coil winding advice and wound a second coil right over top of my first for the base. Damn if that ain't the one that fires it up hard! I'll be exploring the perfection of the base circuit. Hey DOC! Don't be too awful surprised if great things come from the tree stand! LOL! ::)Lifestyle, Yes, but not quite what you might think I mean, kind of like the brothers in Blue, you screw up you might get a second chance or one hell of a lot of backup. Now I better explain this one better, what I mean is its a faster process sitting in a lab with four or five grad students all working on the same thing, going minute by minute over what is taking place and what problems exit. Doing it over the internet and email with all its inherent problems is, please grant me "A real Pain" Sometimes the touchy feely period really works.
More work in the wee quiet hours for sure! 8) 8) 8)
Best to All,
Jim
There are two efficiencies to be concerned with:
Current: If all the current goes to electrolysis of water, there are no side reactions, and no gas is lost, 4 moles of electrons will produce 2 moles of H2 gas and 1 mole of O2 gas. From the Faraday constant of 96485 C/mol, 4 moles of electrons is 385940 C of electricity 1 C = 1 A?s (this is 107.2 Ah to make 2 moles, 4.032 g, of H2). You can take product of current and time and compare your production to this figure.
Voltage: You can read about the thermodynamics here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../electrol.html
The Gibbs free energy of 237.1 kJ/mol of H2 can be expressed as a voltage by noting 2 mol of electrons are required to produce x 96485 C/mol, thus this is 237.1 kJ/193 kC = 1.23 V approximately. At negligible current, the reaction would proceed infinitely slowly in either direction at this voltage. The real world wants faster, so we force it with overvoltage in electrolysis, and settle for less when we operate it as a fuel cell, making electricity from H2 and O2.
Typically, we force the cell voltage in the range 1.5-2.0 V for electrolysis, and in fuel cell mode, load the cell down to about 0.7 V out. Most of the inefficiency relates to these voltage differences.
First, liters is not a great way to measure gases. You will have to correct the measured liters for actual temperature and pressure. Alternatively, you can calculate the molar volume at temperature and pressure. It is 22.414 L/mol at 0 ?C, and 1 atm. It is 24.46 L/mol at 25 ?C, 1 atm; I will use that figure. At other conditions, it is
22.414 L/mol x 101.325 kPa/P x (273.15 + T)/273.15 K, where P is pressure in kPa, and T is temperature in ?C.
To generate 1 mol/min of H2 at 100% efficiency, 237.1 kJ of electricity must be supplied in 1 minute (60s). 237.1 kJ/60 s = 3.95 kW.
At 3.95 kW and 100% efficiency, you should produce 1 mol/min, that's 2.016 g/min, or 24.46 L/min at 25 ?C (I can not over emphasize that the 24.46 L figure is temperature dependent). Because of that, I would encourage you to measure liters, correct for temperature and pressure, and convert to moles of production (or grams). It will greatly simplify comparison of performance at different conditions, although it obviously adds a layer of complexity.
If Molar Volume is MV,
(LPM/MV) x (3950 W?min/mol) / (WattsUsed) x100% = efficiency in %
Before you boys get too excited, do you know how many electrons pass by in a current of 6mA, per second?
As I see it, people are skirting around calculating the output energy. Just do it, or are you afraid the dream might come crashing down? I know I am at times, so let's be real, calculate the output power and see if you have overunity, else we're just playing with oscillators and RF.
Motors spinning, LED lighting, neons burning, hydrogen bubbling is NOT a measure of OUTPUT ENERGY. !!!
EM
Just some thoughts on what I have observed. OU or not, the Doc's circuit is certainly amazing to me anyway as are many things on this forum. Thanks.I'm amazed too. Especially the Doc's latest video with electrolysis at 6 ma. I have performed many electrolysis experiments in recent years with wide ranging results. Some pleasing, some not. Distilled water is very hard to crack without a reasonable voltage to create the current necessary for meaningful hydrolysis to occur.
Bill
Before you boys get too excited, do you know how many electrons pass by in a current of 6mA, per second?
As I see it, people are skirting around calculating the output energy. Just do it, or are you afraid the dream might come crashing down? I know I am at times, so let's be real, calculate the output power and see if you have overunity, else we're just playing with oscillators and RF.
Motors spinning, LED lighting, neons burning, hydrogen bubbling is NOT a measure of OUTPUT ENERGY. !!!
EM
@HoppyBefore you boys get too excited, do you know how many electrons pass by in a current of 6mA, per second?
As I see it, people are skirting around calculating the output energy. Just do it, or are you afraid the dream might come crashing down? I know I am at times, so let's be real, calculate the output power and see if you have overunity, else we're just playing with oscillators and RF.
Motors spinning, LED lighting, neons burning, hydrogen bubbling is NOT a measure of OUTPUT ENERGY. !!!
EM
EM raises a good point here.
I have done a simple test using a motor of similar physical size to Dr. Stiffler's. The motor is from a stripped down miniature tape recorder of some description that I have had in my 'junk' box for a few years. It is labelled as a Mabuchi RF300C-11440 with a DC rating of 5.9V. It is 23mm in diameter with a body height of 12mm excluding the shaft which has a diameter of 2mm.
This motor can turn a small plastic strip prop similar to the first one used by Dr Stiffler powered from a DC bench supply at 2.2V. The motor draws 10.6mA giving a power consumption of just 0.023W!
Try this yourself with any similar spec high efficiency DC motor and be surprised at how little energy is really needed to turn that prop. Please do not ask to run a video of this simple test, just do it for yourself to see how little energy is needed to perform this feat.
Hoppy
Apples and Oranges, compare to what we have used, all we need is 100 different motors to make this whole direction useless again.
So have you about got a protocol setup with a SEC exciter or are we just adding smoke here!
I think who ever starts a topic should have moderator type authority on that topic to be able to keep it on task.I agree, this would stop things going completely of topic which happened in another thread here.
Bill
DR this is great news what size stainless wire should we use for the hho@ramset
Ron,Yes I did.
did you remove my posts, now that you are a moderator? You should initial any edits you make, just like Stefan does.
Enjoy your new found "powers"!
EM
@ Amigo:
I beg to differ...respectfully of course. Overunity is all around us in nature. Orbiting electrons and protons do not slow down and we did not start them spinning in their orbits and on a larger scale the planets and the solar system exhibits ou in my opinion as well. I don't want to get into a big discussion on what overunity is as I have seen that before and everyone on here appears to have a differing opinion about it. To some on the forum, finding a log in the forest and lighting it on fire, thereby getting out more energy in heat than you put in, is ou. I don't agree with this of course but, if you ask you will see many, many varied opinions about it. So, if we are all supposedly seeking it, and we all can't agree on what it is, how will we know if we ever find it or not? I have no answer to this.
Just some thoughts on what I have observed. OU or not, the Doc's circuit is certainly amazing to me anyway as are many things on this forum. Thanks.
Bill
.......
The 22uH choke feeding the AV Plug gets so Hot you will burn your finger if you touch it (from 23V@6mA don't think so). The 10uH in the collector stays ambient along with the transistor, so can anyone figure out why this is happening ;)
A good observation Gustav. It is highly likely that H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) will be formed under these conditions. Also, depending on the electrode metal, for example, aluminium: then a high possibility exists for Aluminium Hydroxide to form.
... if a relatively huge amount of H is set free and a relatively small amount of O, then I think that the liquid (water) in the test tube would become oversaturated with Oxygen, such as a superoxide (not sure whether I apply these chemistry terms correctly).
However, will the liquid be combustible/flammable as a result?
Thanks
in reference to Doc's SEC 'electrolysis' video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1pJEz0YGlQ.......
The 22uH choke feeding the AV Plug gets so Hot you will burn your finger if you touch it (from 23V@6mA don't think so). The 10uH in the collector stays ambient along with the transistor, so can anyone figure out why this is happening ;)
Hello Dr. Stiffler,
i was thinking about SEC electrolysis and have two questions:
1) how will prolonged SEC 'electrolysis' affect the temperature of the water in the test tube?
2) if a relatively huge amount of H is set free and a relatively small amount of O, then I think that the liquid (water) in the test tube would become oversaturated with Oxygen, such as a superoxide (not sure whether I apply these chemistry terms correctly).
However, will the liquid be combustible/flammable as a result?
Thanks
But Doc Stiffler has already done this with water and got some OU results.
DR STIFFLER at your site I click on the sec tuned board and nothing happens what am I doing wrong Chet@ramset
IMHO anyone does this with DR STIFFLERS work the prize and recognition should go to the doc that is what I will do Chet PS marco good thinking!!!@All
Hi Dr. S.@Loner
I have been keeping up with many of the different forums here and have saved every page from
this one. Great work. (I feel sorry for you with the amount of "Mainstream" people that will not
accept what you're working on.) I was working on the "TPU" ideals, but when I saw that this
device is a SPECIFIC PROOF of a concept that no in the academic area wants known, I had
to start cleaning up my breadboards and slide along. Just to put it out there, for the people who
haven't seen what is being proven here, this ckt shows that a potential field IS NOT electron
flow. I left off in collage in the 70's when a professor in the lab wouldn't accept that idea, even
though Tesla proved it long ago. Dr Stiffler, you have my thanks for putting me back on this path.
I'm going to replicate this in a few, and try many components, just to see how critical selection is.
(First transistor was 2N3904) Osc. section was great, but no plugs yet. What I am intending is
simple. Instead of a motor, I will wind a "Step Down" transformer with very low capacitance from
primary to secondary. Feed the primary with the single wire "Plug" source and then I can Ground
one lead of the secondary without draining the potential "Wave" coming up the wire. If there is
any amount if increase, the output of the secondary should be able to power the Circuit.
I realize you may have done this already, and I have no desire for recognition. This is for the
knowledge that man needs. If I get the Circuit to self sustain, I'll post what I can here and will
make any documentation you desire available. As far as I am concerned, this is your info, to
be used by you. If I can add to it, I leave it up to you to disperse it as you see fit. You have
a much better handle on this than I but I have been playing with related Ckts for 30 years and
would love to contribute.
Again, THANK-YOU. (By The Way, I generated HHO with a Meyer Circuit that was modified
from the patent. Interesting that the final Ckt was using the same ideas that yours does....)
Art
What you big boys are doing is way beyond my freshman's physics head, but I tried to somulate the circuit to potentially see what's going on...or this software can't handle this circuit or I did something wrong since I don't see anything usefull happening?@broli
(http://i32.tinypic.com/6tgx2w.gif)
You can play with this yourself if you'd like by copy-pasting the following stuff in the "import"...
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/$ 1 5.0E-6 24.228258192205157 50 5.0 50
l 64 416 64 320 0 1.0E-5 -1.009663273127126E-18
c 64 320 64 224 0 4.0E-10 -0.649536581230683
w 64 224 64 192 0
t 64 192 192 192 0 1 -19.34892634006661 0.6495365812306834 992.0
w 64 416 192 416 0
w 192 416 192 208 0
w 64 192 64 128 0
w 192 176 192 128 0
r 64 128 192 128 0 1000000.0
l 192 128 192 32 0 1.0E-5 -0.01921348390537858
l 192 128 288 128 0 0.0022 2.271919407036514E-28
d 288 128 368 128 0
w 288 128 288 208 0
d 288 208 368 208 0
w 192 416 480 416 0
w 192 32 480 32 0
w 480 416 480 112 0
d 672 112 672 32 0
c 480 112 480 32 0 1.0E-8 -19.998462921287544
c 544 112 544 32 0 1.0E-7 -19.998847190965655
c 608 112 608 32 0 1.0E-5 -19.999231460643767
r 480 112 544 112 0 0.01
r 544 112 608 112 0 0.01
r 608 112 672 112 0 0.01
r 672 112 752 112 0 0.01
r 672 32 752 32 0 0.01
r 672 32 608 32 0 0.01
r 608 32 544 32 0 0.01
r 544 32 480 32 0 0.01
v 752 112 752 32 0 0 40.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
162 368 128 368 208 0 1.0 0.0 0.0
@All
@Stephan
Ok guys we have been here before, many time and before I repeat it so no one has to go search for it let me openly state this.
"I do not at this time, trust an external lab to test and (Correctly) report on SEC testing"
Why? Because of feedback and statements from labs that I was dealing with to do some tests. I would rather have "John Q Public" start out backing me up. If you do it right, you can have a very high error factor and still get a good out come. In some case you can be off by 50% and still agree with me, Then and Only Then is it safe to ask them to put up or shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have NEVER made accurate internal measurements, (for one thing something we can not measure is in there) and as Loki says and I have said and as Plengo has found, things run different with devices hung off the exciters.
Light Level; three Scientists have stated that certain LED circuits produce more light than they should with a similar non-SEC input, BUT they say SEC is NOT OU, What? What do I not understand.
I and an independent associate have both after doing extensive calorimetry found excess heat up to 5 times input, SO WE ARE WRONG??? Because CalTech or someplace else did not report this it is not true????
If even five of you show excess heat >2 with home made instruments, we can call them down big time.
Unless there is some instrument I have never heard of, connecting a wire and reading an output will NEVER show the TRUE SEC picture. Forget the DMM's the Scopes and the SA's for now, a light meter or a home made calorimeter from foam and a glass thermometer (some digital freak out big time) we can do it.
Weekend is here, yey, and I stopped by the electronics store earlier today to pick up some parts, just to find out now hours later that Doc had posted a parts list and it shows the AVP with 1N4248 which I don't have...grrr, if I only knew that this morning when I was in the store, hehe. :)@Amigo
So what is our next step, measuring light emission with home made instruments?
I still wonder about one thing...how do we know that LEDs themselves are not acting as photo sensors and producing some potentials that add to the illumination?
I mentioned this awhile back because I have seen circuits where LEDs are used as light detectors and produced potentials. Since these circuits oscillate with very high frequencies is it wrong to assume that in the off times, LEDs might reverse to light detection and create potentials?
Someone please correct me about the above if I'm wrong to think it's possible...
Weekend is here, yey, and I stopped by the electronics store earlier today to pick up some parts, just to find out now hours later that Doc had posted a parts list and it shows the AVP with 1N4248 which I don't have...grrr, if I only knew that this morning when I was in the store, hehe. :)@Amigo
So what is our next step, measuring light emission with home made instruments?
I still wonder about one thing...how do we know that LEDs themselves are not acting as photo sensors and producing some potentials that add to the illumination?
I mentioned this awhile back because I have seen circuits where LEDs are used as light detectors and produced potentials. Since these circuits oscillate with very high frequencies is it wrong to assume that in the off times, LEDs might reverse to light detection and create potentials?
Someone please correct me about the above if I'm wrong to think it's possible...
@Amigo
If the LEDs themselves are acting in this way and that can be shown (assuming no manufacture has it hidden in a file someplace) would be a great discovery in itself.
Weekend is here, yey, and I stopped by the electronics store earlier today to pick up some parts, just to find out now hours later that Doc had posted a parts list and it shows the AVP with 1N4248 which I don't have...grrr, if I only knew that this morning when I was in the store, hehe. :)@Amigo
So what is our next step, measuring light emission with home made instruments?
I still wonder about one thing...how do we know that LEDs themselves are not acting as photo sensors and producing some potentials that add to the illumination?
I mentioned this awhile back because I have seen circuits where LEDs are used as light detectors and produced potentials. Since these circuits oscillate with very high frequencies is it wrong to assume that in the off times, LEDs might reverse to light detection and create potentials?
Someone please correct me about the above if I'm wrong to think it's possible...
If the LEDs themselves are acting in this way and that can be shown (assuming no manufacture has it hidden in a file someplace) would be a great discovery in itself.
@Amigo@Amigo
If the LEDs themselves are acting in this way and that can be shown (assuming no manufacture has it hidden in a file someplace) would be a great discovery in itself.
I believe this has to do with the photo-voltaic properties of LEDs, there's some talk about reverse-bias in LED, here's an article just as a reference but there are more: http://www.edn.com/article/CA6387024.html
I remember seeing an article in one of the electronics magazines where they built a sensor for a model rocket using various colour LEDs so they could measure the atmospheric spectra and they were digitizing voltage potentials off the LEDs and recording them in the PIC micro-controller.
Another very cool example of using LEDs was this one called LED Touch Sensing: http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ledtouch/index.html
@Amigo
Early in the thread the ability of LEDs to act like photo detectors was discussed, indeed the clear glass 1N4148s will do similar things. I can't remember if it was here or a private conversation where I mentioned painting the 4148s black ti insure they did not pick up light. I have indeed used LEDs in solar positioning detectors, but it would be new to get the power out of them to this level. If all LEDs were reverse biased, where and how would they store and change the polarity for addition during a forward cycle?
There are several things most people seem to miss when we look at things like the Avramenko's plug. One for example is, when it is used to charge up a capacitor, the effective adding to the charge in the cap decreases when the voltage the cap is charged to rises.
The reason for this is simple, The charge in the cap "pushes" against the charge coming from the plug. If the cap is empty it will store much of the energy coming from the plug, but when the cap is charged to let's say 100 volts, the cap pushes 100 volts against the plug...
So let's say the plug sends 200 volts to the cap, the effective voltage will be only 200 minus the 100 that already is in the cap = 100 in stead of 200.
This means the cap charges rather fast at first but when it becomes charged, only the voltage from the plug that is above the voltage of the cap will add to the charge. So in effect, the voltage the plug has to overcome the charge of the cap to add to the charge, the 100 volts, is lost in the process. If we could start with an totally empty capacitor all the time, we would see different things.
Therefore it is important that we get rid of the charge that is in the cap, fighting against the energy coming from the plug. That is one of the things some people miss and i do not want to make it too difficult to understand.
Another thing is that Diodes are leaky, they never cut off the flow totally. You could look at them as if their resistance changes but not between a zero ohm and infinity. Vacuum diodes, however do block the flow in one direction. There is a great difference between them. You can have something that is totally closed or you can have something that is almost closed.
In the case of the almost closed situation there can be a back flow of energy due to charge differences, and even in opposite directions.
An interesting thing to look at is the "Avalanche breakdown" where the electrons are ripped off. It has been claimed that when this happens, the ripped off electrons are replaced by electrons out of the environment, so in effect they attract energy from the local environment.
*Removed*
@LokiThey are different for now, but that is an apples and oranges statement on my part, and of course I am distracted and investigating it. The specific experiment I have held off for now, while I figure out what is going on. I'm getting heat! But not where I expect it! Which makes me very cautious. ;) There are several possibilities and I have to try and rule them out 1 by 1. :-\ The specific experiment is actually going to happen this morning. ;D I will let you know.
How did the Relative IR readings come out, as I guessed or different?
@Loki67671
Regarding shining the laser, in order for that to work the wavelength of the LED has to match the wavelength of the laser, for best results. Also, I bet you could shine a specific kind of a laser at the AV plug and excite the 1N4148 (if they are glass), it's really a matter of matching the wavelength of the PN junction.
Yes, and the reason I was lining up additional lasers ;D I have also considered the IR emitter/receiver pairs and various circuit configurations. ;D With that, along with stealing the laser from a CD player. A word of immediate caution on that note. For those reading this and that may not know the laser in the CD device is IR wavelengths. DO NOT LOOK INTO IT! YOU CANNOT SEE IT'S EMMISIONS BUT THEY WILL DO DAMAGE JUST THE SAME! ALSO YOU MUST GET A PAIR OF LASER BLOCKING SAFETY SPECS IF YOU ARE GOING TO WORK WITH LASERS AT ALL! There is much to do!
I believe most people never think about it or try it because most PN junctions are enclosed into metal or epoxy but with LEDs and some diodes they are open to external influence but nothing happens because wavelengths are different. I suppose we could compute the size of the PN junction in the 1N4148 and hit it with that wavelength, I bet you we'd get excitation.
Too bad we don't have some kind of a laser that can be tuned to various wavelengths, it would make for quite an interesting experience. :)
I agree about the NE glow, it is mesmerizing to watch, but what interests me is that while I'm tuning the coil I get different behaviours of the glow. I'll paste here something from the wikipedia first:When driven from a DC source, only the negatively charged electrode (cathode) will glow. When driven from an AC source, both electrodes will glow
(each during alternate half cycles). Neon lamps operate using a low current glow discharge.
Once lit, a neon lamp has a negative resistance characteristic: increasing the current flow through the device increases the number of ions, thereby
decreasing the resistance of the lamp and allowing even more current to flow. Because of this characteristic, electrical circuitry external to the neon
lamp must provide a means to limit current flow through the circuit or else the current will rapidly increase until the lamp is destroyed.
I always remember those paragraphs because while looking at my setup depending where I tune the coil I'd get one electrode to glow or both (glow would be between the electrodes), yet I am not sure whether that should happen or not.
Agreed again, see both DC and AC excitation of the NE and combinations in the bigger tubes. I have always been interested in the negative resistance operational range of an NE bulb or other plasma for that matter.
Also, I have been playing around with various choke values for the AVP connections and right now a slightly modified version of the circuit runs with HV properties (NE is glowing) and LEDs are super bright while being driven by a 6V from the power supply which is basically 1/2 of what Doc suggests to use. Current usage is about 21ma...
@All
If you want to try and get software to simulate the simple SEC, the following is pretty close to what you want to use.
@Fritz@All
If you want to try and get software to simulate the simple SEC, the following is pretty close to what you want to use.
Hi !
The used diode model - as well as the diode parameters for the AV plug are
essential.
As long as you use identical models and identical parameters for both diodes
- nothing can (will) happen.
If we talk about spice and derivates - it could make sense to use a diode
"piece" of a transistor - because the models for transistors are somehow
more comprehensive than that one of "stupid" diodes - typicalwise never
used in such configuration.
[everything else simulates quite easy - as long as you use a "real" power
supply in the simulation (add series resistor,etc.) and find the right bias for
the transistor]
BTW: The problem is the model for the AV diodes -> NO SEC
You can replace them with damped multiband delay lines ....(hint)
rgds.
@ Stiffler@Fritz
So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodes
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage.
This means that the output resistance of the AV plug
is determined by the diode junction - and the energy
is a product of the charge in the junction and the frequentness
it is released. hmmmm
Sounds like an innovative impedance converter.
Ever tried different (slower (do they really exist !?)) diodes with
wider junction area (e.g. enclosed photo diodes)?
Do you think the AV-Plug is involved in the "SEC" effect - or is
just helpful to "harvest" the produced energy ?
rgds,
PS: I agree with you that it makes no sense to use traditional
equippement SA, Scopes, to analyze this. Using a very fast
transient recorder and matlab would make more sense = gives
at least a precise (abstract) picture of what is happening.
Some Opinions and a help request.@Loner
I don't think there is a simulator program out there that will properly handle this type
of circuit, for the simple reason that the effects aren't really known. How do you calculate
the effects on a circuit if you don't know what they are. Is this a valid assumption?
Now for my HELP question. I built the basic ckt. I changed a few things to fit what I
have in my parts boxes. (Actually, they are bigger than some stores.) The Basic Circuit
is the same, but the Coils are 18uH, the main coil from power I hand wound, and the base
coil is a little larger than the original spec. (On the exact same form....just a couple extra turns)
Here's what happens. The output of the LEDs is GReat for high current input (60 to 80 mA).
I must mention that the last AVP has the primary of a very small torrid xformer instead of an LED.
I wond it specifically so all the primary is on one side and the sec, on the other side for minimum
amount of cap. between windings. I don't seem to lose too much with one side of the secondary
attached to Ground.This allows me to scope the other secondary lead with NO EFFECT on
the circuit. This is how I noticed my problem. (Maybe this is normal?)
When I tune for minimum current, I hit a "Threshold" where the current drops below 1mA but
the Osc. output is no longer continous. The out changes from a fairly clean sine to a Hash
type of output in defined pulses. Hash is appros .08uS wave for 20 us and then decays to nothing
in another 35 us. Now I have a dead output until 9.5 mS goes by. Pattern Repeats.
I have no idea why the Osc does this. (Running 2 Hours now, just to be sure). Of course I
have noticed many other quirks, but this seems weird. Also, the output has the hightest
voltage peaks with this signal. Increasing the base inductance will push the output to a continous
wave, but the output voltage decreases. More currrent available, of course. Also, even though
the LED's don't light with this "Pulse" wave, they are just noticable in the dark.
(Extra note: I am doing most testing with Lights on AND lights off to try and account for
LED's converting light, etc. Unless they are converting their own light, there seems to be
no effect that I have found, yet....)
Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Last little Question. If I attach a wire (Normal jumper lead with clips.) to the AVP side of
the first inductor, I get an increase in the output voltage, but no change in the wave shape???
This is a 1 Foot long lead just clipped on. Of course, my hand makes a difference, but I am
only mentioning the results after pulling my hands away. Almost like an antenna, but at any
frequency I happen to be tuned to. (Oppps, forgot to mention, I have used several Caps to
try several frequencys.) Is it possible that this is all the correct operation and the OSC ckt
is Supposed to be unstable for better harmonic production?
Any insights welcome, but I must sleep now. Been at this for 9 hours straight and am getting
blurred vision. Makes it hard to read the fine lines on scope and meters....
Art
Well it took me a few days to read all ... wish all the BS was left out and the thread kept to the research ... would have been a whole lot less time and I might have absorbed more, pretty hard for my one brain cell to keep up :P*If needed I will have someone watch the thread 24/7 and we will keep the thread a lot smaller and relevant, NO MATTER WHAT TOES I STEP ON!
@Stiffler nice work ... I have seen some of this effect in what I have been working on in my energy driver for my HHO unit. You are on to something here. Have you tried going to higher frequency's yet ? Or into the VLF range .. tapping into the earth's core frequency? and resonate off of that. I have found that using 6 frequency harmonics gets a better result for resonense than 1 or even 3.
@all ... this may be a dumb question and I may have already missed it or lost it. Is there anyone that has lit up 1 (or more) led's without an external power supply ie. battery or grid power ? @ Haliburtun in your video's I have not noticed an external supply ... but I think I am not looking close enough.
I will be trying out a 3 magnet pump circuit design to drive the input ... if I meet with success this can then be coupled to Doc's and will make it a closed loop. I just hope that I can get rid of the very high frequency's that the pump creates so it does not cause havic with the tuning.
...
The SEC Exciter that I have established as standard and used in my last video on HHO is about as wide banded as you will get. It produces very high energy output about every 5MHz from 4.6-356MHz and less useful ones much higher. Granted the low end is left out, but SEC does not work down here (unless someone has done it).
..... As anyone can easily see, there is a considerable increase in spectral energy with the larger tube.
....So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodesHi fritz, I don't understand, but would like to.
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage. ....
*transient recorder and matlab would make more sense = gives
You have mentioned this before and I think I indicated (seriously) that we would be very grateful if you could do this, is this possible and would you??
Thank you for the valuable and inline with direction post.
@fritz....So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodesHi fritz, I don't understand, but would like to.
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage. ....
So if you ever find time to explain this a bit more in detail and for the layman, I would appreciate it very much.
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?
@Gustav22...
The SEC Exciter that I have established as standard and used in my last video on HHO is about as wide banded as you will get. It produces very high energy output about every 5MHz from 4.6-356MHz and less useful ones much higher. Granted the low end is left out, but SEC does not work down here (unless someone has done it).
@RStiffler
Hi Doc, I wonder whether it is probable that you don't get proper spikes below 4.6 MHz because you always build such "miniature units" ;D
Would it not just take MORE MASS to be able to get powerful oscillation at lower frequencies aka subharmonics? With need for even more mass, the lower you look. But might this not be where the energy really hides (in oscillating mass, I mean)?
After all you yourself wrote..... As anyone can easily see, there is a considerable increase in spectral energy with the larger tube.
@fritz....So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodesHi fritz, I don't understand, but would like to.
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage. ....
So if you ever find time to explain this a bit more in detail and for the layman, I would appreciate it very much.
@Fritz
*transient recorder and matlab would make more sense = gives
You have mentioned this before and I think I indicated (seriously) that we would be very grateful if you could do this, is this possible and would you??
Thank you for the valuable and inline with direction post.
I?m still a novice matlab user - and the only transient thing
I could use so far is my 4x100MHz Scope with a COM module
(I?m still looking for). But I?ll let you know when I?m capable of that.
Good Luck for your further research - I have to do some stupid motion
control in the next 2 wks -then there will be time to do the interesting stuff.
rgds.
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?@alan
The missing photos:@aluka
In my tests so far I did not notice any heat increase coming off of the transistor, 22uH or the NE2. Of course I could only use my fingers to touch the components, but should there be any heat change and does that signify proper operation or not?@Amigo
I'm still struggling with proper tuning (nothing new there :) ) since I have wound several variable coils, the one that seems to behave the best is the one that has the most windings and is a bit different (about 2x more turns) than the reference design from Dr.Stiffler...
Thank you fritz and and doc for your replies.@Gustav22
BTW, Doc, when I go to http://www.stifflerscientific.com/
and then click on the first menu item "Main Section"
the link points to
http://67.76.235.52/ce4.asp
But then I get
"The page cannot be found"
(also tried this yesterday with same result).
AMIGO I saw a fellow selling new laser point thermometer on ebay 18.00 ILL try to find it I believe it only went to 250 degrees[Should be fine ] Chet@ramset
@Dr. Stiffler,@Loki
No heat sink required! Transistor is cool. Looked to be approximately 60F. 22uH looked to be approximately 64F. I could not get a reading on the Neon for some reason besides 58F. I have to take these readings with a black isolation surface as you have reminded me. I will do that ASAP! It is starting to look good but I'm not quite there yet! I get RF burned on the 22uH so I won't be "touching" that too much more. ;D 20VDC at 89ma in this pic. I can and did have very similar values at much less input so what I'm telling you right now is just ballpark. Will have more precise details as soon as possible.
Best regards
Jim
@Amigo
The simplest possible exciter, one plug and one high current neon (<1mA) when running properly will have the 22uH and Neon so Hot that unless you don't feel heat or have think skin, will burn to the touch (not rf burn or sensation from the rf) real burn from heat. When one has a temp gun some (relative temps can be checked), but they only indicate things are working, but of course can't tell how well. In this simple circuit if the transistor (without heat sink) or the 10uH get hot or even overly warm to the touch then its not running in the right mode. I have am at the point where I can pretty much tell by the color of the gas in the neon when it is close to right. I told Loki that to me it appears to be either a very bright orange with a reddish cast to it (of course here we have, do we have a standard bulb).
@Dr. Stiffler,@Loki
No heat sink required! Transistor is cool. Looked to be approximately 60F. 22uH looked to be approximately 64F. I could not get a reading on the Neon for some reason besides 58F. I have to take these readings with a black isolation surface as you have reminded me. I will do that ASAP! It is starting to look good but I'm not quite there yet! I get RF burned on the 22uH so I won't be "touching" that too much more. ;D 20VDC at 89ma in this pic. I can and did have very similar values at much less input so what I'm telling you right now is just ballpark. Will have more precise details as soon as possible.
Best regards
Jim
So when you are working in the lab you are constantly jumping up and down, waving your arms back and forth and constantly pushing the fur from the parka out of your eyes :) Man your ambient is cold you need to get this running, you need to look at the transistor curve/temp maybe your hfe is zip :D :D :D
@All
I sent this to Loki and will post here so you have an idea what you are looking for, the following is just a sample set of temp with a gun when ambient surrounding temp was 23.5C,
The 22uH choke ->48C
The Neon ->45C
The transistor -> 25C
The 10uH choke ->24C
Might help some in getting closer....
@Amigo@Amigo
The simplest possible exciter, one plug and one high current neon (<1mA) when running properly will have the 22uH and Neon so Hot that unless you don't feel heat or have think skin, will burn to the touch (not rf burn or sensation from the rf) real burn from heat. When one has a temp gun some (relative temps can be checked), but they only indicate things are working, but of course can't tell how well. In this simple circuit if the transistor (without heat sink) or the 10uH get hot or even overly warm to the touch then its not running in the right mode. I have am at the point where I can pretty much tell by the color of the gas in the neon when it is close to right. I told Loki that to me it appears to be either a very bright orange with a reddish cast to it (of course here we have, do we have a standard bulb).
Hi Doc,
So it sounds as I am on the right track because nothing gets hot. I did notice various colours of the gas in the NE2 and I do remember seeing bright orangy-red, which looked to me like a real overdrive. :)
Otherwise, I do believe I have the exact same components, except for the coil form that you use, mine is a bit shorter and thicker. I'll post a photo of my coils today.
Thanks.
Hi Doc,@Stephan
so the transistor gets 1 degree Celsius colder than the environment ?
Very interesting.
Maybeyour SEC converts environment heat into electricity ?
@Amigo
What??
**So it sounds as I am on the right track because nothing gets hot.
What did I say wrong? Maybe it was that Booths last night.
NO! we want Heat, but only in certain places, the Neon and the 22uH choke. Want the 10uH and the xistor to say (Cool).
If I don't come across right I am sorry, maybe the old mind still moves faster than the fingers.
Hi Doc,
so the transistor gets 1 degree Celsius colder than the environment ?
Very interesting.
May be your SEC converts environment heat into electricity ?
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?@alan
Hey, nothing is wrong with your idea, but it is not as simple as it sounds. Obtain a generator with know specifications, devise a coupling method. The RPM method the was proposed does work and is simple to implement. To bad EMDevices had his feelings hurt, guess mine could be, but his could not, anyway it was a good idea and only took a short amount of time to try.
When you get to the mechanical things a whole world of additional problems pop up and sometime, like with me, I'm not a great mechanical person.
Thanks, don't get upset, great idea.
@alanWhat is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?@alan
Hey, nothing is wrong with your idea, but it is not as simple as it sounds. Obtain a generator with know specifications, devise a coupling method. The RPM method the was proposed does work and is simple to implement. To bad EMDevices had his feelings hurt, guess mine could be, but his could not, anyway it was a good idea and only took a short amount of time to try.
When you get to the mechanical things a whole world of additional problems pop up and sometime, like with me, I'm not a great mechanical person.
Thanks, don't get upset, great idea.
Yeah, easier said than done, especially forum observers have easy talk. ;D
Wish I could do it myself, but it is hard to work without a scope, still going to give your work a try in the near future.
Before, I asked if slowing down the fan has any effect on the inputpower, do you know if this is the case or do you want to try it? If it does not affect input, then that is a hint to overunity
The missing photos:@aluka
@Dr. Stiffler,@Loki
Neon 101.5F, 22uH 88F, Transistor 82F, 10uH 81F.
Sound a little more like it?
Oh...wait.......102.5 with supply current GOING DOWN! HOLY FREAKING SHIT! How do things get hotter with supply current decreasing. :o :o :o
I'm late.....SHIT!
Best regards,
Jim
Dr. Stiffler:@Pirate88179
This is possibly a stupid question but, in view of the calorimetry anomalies you are experiencing why could you not just continue to use your hand-held temperature sensor? What I mean by this, and I know they are not totally accurate, is if every component on the sec device is at ambient temperature prior to any test, and then you run it and take temperature readings of all of the components, including the transistor, any deviation from the baseline ambient would require a power output would it not? Say the transistor is 3 degrees cooler than it was at the beginning of the test, well that shows power output right, as in a peltier junction? I guess what I am getting at is that it takes energy to heat or cool something (to change its temperature state) and by adding up all of the changes (+ or -) of all the components, I would think this would give you a more accurate look at what is going on than having the transistor's cooling negate the heat you are making elsewhere. Feel free to delete this if you think it is too stupid a suggestion as it could quite possibly be. Thanks.
Bill
@Pirate88179
I forgot to say this in my last answer to you.
I'm not having problems per say with the calorimetry, the problem if we would call it that is that the circuit has shown factors of <1 to >5 and it does decline as time moves on. The problem is that once its inside the chamber, one is not able to see if adjustment will correct the condition. If it were not that it would be a great bit of engineering I would like to have some kind of auto tuning control and a video camera in there, hell maybe ( ;) ) the transistor is frosting up ???. Although the chamber is not only insulated it is constructed to also be a Faraday Cage, there is so much RF inside that it was a real trick to get the active temp sensors to work properly in the chamber. Not to mention you don't want to run a bundle of wires from the circuit outside for measurement, anything hung on a SEC Exciter causes real problems and does not provide real time operational information.
@alanWhat is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?@alan
Hey, nothing is wrong with your idea, but it is not as simple as it sounds. Obtain a generator with know specifications, devise a coupling method. The RPM method the was proposed does work and is simple to implement. To bad EMDevices had his feelings hurt, guess mine could be, but his could not, anyway it was a good idea and only took a short amount of time to try.
When you get to the mechanical things a whole world of additional problems pop up and sometime, like with me, I'm not a great mechanical person.
Thanks, don't get upset, great idea.
Yeah, easier said than done, especially forum observers have easy talk. ;D
Wish I could do it myself, but it is hard to work without a scope, still going to give your work a try in the near future.
Before, I asked if slowing down the fan has any effect on the inputpower, do you know if this is the case or do you want to try it? If it does not affect input, then that is a hint to overunity
My motor can be restrained and fully stopped without seeing a difference in source input, I hope some of the others will answer you also on this. There is of course a difference observed when the motor is connected and disconnected, this is a load matching difference, also the removal of the motor with out removal of the choke it is across will affect the brightness of the following LEDs.
DR STIFFLER an AMAZING amount of talent and Ideas you have around you here can we order today ? thanks Chet@ramset
Your setup is very interesting RStiffler. It resembles almost exactly what Tesla was doing in Colorado springs except you are using MHz instead of kHz. An oscillator is used to drive a coil into resonance. The difference is you place diodes at the top terminal - which seem to convert the reactive AC to DC. Your coils would probably work better if you designed them to have higher Q. In a graph on your website, you show the energy increase as you approach ~12MHz. I'm not sure how much wire your using in your secondary, but I would imagine it is close to 18 feet - since this makes a quarter wavelength with 12MHz and would give the maximum potential at the top terminal where you place diodes.Your posts will be kept if appropriate for this thread and are not composed of rants and raves.
It would work even better if you made your primary and secondary a regular transformer and placed a high Q "extra coil" outside of the inductive coupling of the secondary - attached to the secondary of course. You should be impressing standing waves along your secondary. Properly tuned only reactive power would be generated, with very little real power. The dependence on capacity is exactly as Tesla showed it as well.
I'll have to think about why converting reactive AC to DC would "extract ether" energy. I would think pulling any energy from the coil oscillation would dampen the resonance. In Tesla's system it did, but then again he didn't have diodes.
Stop removing my posts,
Thanks,
Charlie
Charlie@Charle_V
I have seen 100s of Tesla coils all emitting huge sparks etc. So, where is this magnification that you talk about?
The bottom line is we want magnification of power input and wouldn't some one had spotted it by now?
I can understand your coil project is very exciting but, will it do something that other Tesla coils don't?
Are all these coilers missing something?
It is beyond the capability of many people to tinker with Tesla coils but I think Dr Stiffler's cut-down approach
is quite refreshing and of course can be scaled up once the power magnification is proved. For many people like me
perhaps we are re-discovering the works of the master (Tesla) in a round about way.
AM
Sorry, I was just saying that the two technologies appear almost the same, except for frequencies, size, and diodes. Stiffler, if you can point out what else, other than these 3 things, please do. I'm not trying to make this a Tesla thread, but it your circuits are modernized copies of his! In one of your circuits, you add inductors to create "delay", that also adds to the wire length and brings the secondary out of lumped circuitry domain. I'd like to ask you where yours are different - besides the three things I listed. It would be neat if I could take the setup I'm constructing and tweak it to make a larger version of your setup.@Charlie_V
@AhuraMazda,
The problem with Tesla coilers is that they design their coils to generate sparks... only sparks. The Tesla coil was not really meant for that purpose. If you want to make sparks, you'll put a large capacity (toroid, sphere, etc.) on the top of your coil, the bigger the better. If you want to transmit energy (which is the real purpose) you'll have to place a very small capacity - or none at all. If you want me to elaborate further, send me a message.
@ Charlie V ...@nickle989
I like some of your thinking ... start a new thread and I will post some more thoughts on it from what I have seen ... as I agree with the Dr. .. it took me forever to wade through the whole thread to come to this point. It would take someone else time and could confuse them.
@ the DR .... could you publish the spec on the coil ? .. if you already have sorry ... my brain is leaking more then it should be. Thanks.
Hi Doc,@Stefan
I purchased one full board via PayPal.
Many thanks for making these available,
so we all could compare results.
Regards, Stefan.
@All
I do not imagine any of the SEC operation makes much sense to most people because we are always looking for the "current" flow and we equate this with work being done. What we should be looking for is the capacitor, if everything is made up of opposite charges then the space beween these charges could be considered a dielectric,that is electrostatic thus capacitive in nature on the fundamental level. This would make a potential difference nothing more than additional tension between charges and an electric current tension moving from one dielectric space to the next as applied force in any media often does. If we should consider Dr.Stifflers circuit in this light, as capacitive in nature---capacitors being conservitive in most every sense, then it makes things much easier to understand.
@All@allcanadian
I do not imagine any of the SEC operation makes much sense to most people because we are always looking for the "current" flow and we equate this with work being done. What we should be looking for is the capacitor, if everything is made up of opposite charges then the space beween these charges could be considered a dielectric,that is electrostatic thus capacitive in nature on the fundamental level. This would make a potential difference nothing more than additional tension between charges and an electric current tension moving from one dielectric space to the next as applied force in any media often does. If we should consider Dr.Stifflers circuit in this light, as capacitive in nature---capacitors being conservitive in most every sense, then it makes things much easier to understand.
@RStiffler
I was browsing your site---again :), I mean no offence or to imply anything but regarding your CRE circuit, I have read Dr.Rhodes work and if I remember correctly I thought he had mentioned adding a capacitor in the exact fashion you have in your circuit. It makes perfect sense to add a capacitor of course and I enjoyed the explanation you gave for doing such a thing ie.. the bucket brigade. In regards to using an electron twice as you stated, In the case of using a capacitor with the source this may be the case but that is only one half of the equation, when you add an inductance to the circuit utilized in the correct manner another recycling loop is created. The problem I believe was never charging an inductor but utilizing the inductive discharge to its greatest advantage. In any case, keep up the good work---I am still waiting like everyone else I imagine for the grand finale.
I must confess that I am puzzle with what i found out. Watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxMPPOy35H4) and you will see why.@Fausto
Dr. Stiffler, can your theory account for that? I bet you can. When are you planning to share with us your theory?
Fausto.
@Loki@All
I do not imagine any of the SEC operation makes much sense to most people because we are always looking for the "current" flow and we equate this with work being done. What we should be looking for is the capacitor, if everything is made up of opposite charges then the space beween these charges could be considered a dielectric,that is electrostatic thus capacitive in nature on the fundamental level. This would make a potential difference nothing more than additional tension between charges and an electric current tension moving from one dielectric space to the next as applied force in any media often does. If we should consider Dr.Stifflers circuit in this light, as capacitive in nature---capacitors being conservitive in most every sense, then it makes things much easier to understand.
@allcanadian and others,
The truth of that, the capacitive nature of SEC, cannot be overstated. I spent the last 6 hours switching back and forth between a fan motor and my modified fan with an alternator on it. I will be working with experimenting / understanding the capacitances in this monster for awhile. I cannot, YET, get the circuit to regularly start the motor / generator through the board C to backplane. Layout, understanding of the capacitances, and etc will come with time and experiment. A fan motor by itself, no problem. Maybe the additional mass added to the motor. Maybe magnets in the SEC? Maybe something else? Don't know yet. Two fingers pinching the motor leads and bang fires up everytime. This critter had impedances changing, I got tagged a couple of times from the alternator leads with the motor running and with it stalled, keep in mind the alternator is not connected to anything at this point, at least not intentionally or visibly. I literally had a little neon almost melt, I should have measured the temp but didn't. I'm telling you it was much hotter than 110F, like burning your hand on the stove hot. The little NE bulbs glow bright orange when excited like this, the big boys glow orange-red-purple. I'm thinking about just mounting all of my breadboards to the same sheet of aluminum and see what that does for me. I was experimenting this morning on the WISH board only but I don't think the capacitance is right, at least not for what I was doing this morning. Just as a "control" or sanity check I fired up the heat circuit first and measured it then went on to experimenting. The heater functioned exactly as before. Trying to run the circuit as posted by Dr. Stiffler with a motor and then three additional plugs with 3 LED's would not work correctly with my alternator. The pictures below show a circuit configuration that did run. Notice the difference in NE intensity with and without a capacitor back to V+. Very interesting and painstaking work. Everybody say thanks for all the hard work DOC! I can't imagine how long he has been at this. ;D
Much more to follow,
Jim
....Maybe magnets in the SEC? ...I guess magnets alone might not be a big problem for the exciter, but I guess that spinning magnets may have a big effect on the circuit.
.... surrounding bubble ...would be best.
@ALL
It would appeared that everyone is ignoring a very important post (request) I made??????????????
I asked that two meters of the same type be used with one in the +v and one in the -v power lines to a running exciter (with the Al backing plate floating, nothing connected to it).
Take a set of readings (they should be the same) +/- a digit or meter accuracy.
Connect an Earth ground to the Al backing plate, what are the meter readings??????????????
Are they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.
**The power supply must be a battery of 16-20 volts. The Exciter should be running a neon or at least three LEDs.
Are they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.
@retrod@ALL
It would appeared that everyone is ignoring a very important post (request) I made??????????????
I asked that two meters of the same type be used with one in the +v and one in the -v power lines to a running exciter (with the Al backing plate floating, nothing connected to it).
Take a set of readings (they should be the same) +/- a digit or meter accuracy.
Connect an Earth ground to the Al backing plate, what are the meter readings??????????????
Are they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.
**The power supply must be a battery of 16-20 volts. The Exciter should be running a neon or at least three LEDs.
Dr Stiffler,
I built the basic replication today (one neon) using the Jameco list you provided, including the proto-board as suggested. I rewound the tuning coil with #26 copper magnet wire to fill the form. I have a region of somewhat unstable operation when the tuning slug is about 3/4 to the top. I have stable operation area with the slug peaking over the top. This stable operation is about 10ma higher current then the other peak. For the test you requested I used the stable region at higher current.
I connected two meters (a Fluke 75 & a 77). With the proto-board backing plate not grounded to earth I read 37.2 ma on each leg at the same time. When I connect earth ground the current on each leg reads 38.5. Right or wrong, this is what I got.
Dave
Quote from: RStiffler on April 12, 2008, 05:37:56 PM@Charlie_VQuoteAre they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.
60Hz noise (50Hz if in Europe). I see increases in AC current all the time when devices are grounded due to wall outlet noise - we are all coursing with 60/50Hz AC electricity, all the time!
@All@Jim
Results from Conductive Mass added to the SEC with no electrical connections, mass just sitting on the breadboard. (Mass added was a 7.5" X 1.5" X 0.25" copper bar, 1 Excelite screwdriver, and the pancake fan / alt combination) The addition of the mass caused the current to increase by about 2ma and then stabilize at the new level. Hand touching the copper bar added another 1.2ma or so. then removing the mass returned the circuit back to the starting current levels approximately 56.1ma. Addition of the fan motor assembly MASS caused the greatest increase and and removal caused the greatest decrease in current, no electrical connections.
Chained LED with alternating connection to Annode and Cathode as suggested also functions.
Best regards,
Jim
@All@Loki
My results from the current experiment:
Circuit description: SEC exciter- 1 AV plug with NE bulb-16.25 VDC input
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Floating back plate + leg current=55.6ma - leg current=55.6ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Hand over ckt + leg current=56.42ma - leg current=55.9ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth Plate + leg current=60.28ma - leg current=60.1ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth Plate removed + leg current=55.91ma - leg current=55.6ma
Not only does it appear to provide a current path but once established a current imbalance also appeared to remain there. I'm seeing what appears to be more current in the positive leg than the negative leg after I read them balanced and then messed with the circuit by attaching earth ground to the plate. Removing the ground did not seem to restore it. Turning off all equipment and restarting did.
Best regards,
Jim
@All@Loki
My results from the current experiment:
Circuit description: SEC exciter- 1 AV plug with NE bulb-16.25 VDC input
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Floating back plate + leg current=55.6ma - leg current=55.6ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Hand over ckt + leg current=56.42ma - leg current=55.9ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth Plate + leg current=60.28ma - leg current=60.1ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth Plate removed + leg current=55.91ma - leg current=55.6ma
Not only does it appear to provide a current path but once established a current imbalance also appeared to remain there. I'm seeing what appears to be more current in the positive leg than the negative leg after I read them balanced and then messed with the circuit by attaching earth ground to the plate. Removing the ground did not seem to restore it. Turning off all equipment and restarting did.
Best regards,
Jim
Fantastic. I will post a couple pictures here shortly on a test I have performed.
Great work and correct observation
I tried as suggested with the choke. My work room is cold, I felt heat in about 10 seconds. I also noted that when my finger was on the choke the circuit current increased from the initial 45ma to 70ma.@retrod
Dave
@All,@Loki
Todays experiment results:
Circuit is SEC exciter in the currently stated configuration
Power input = 20.12VDC base coil tuned to draw 43ma from supply
22uH choke terminated in an empty connector row 90 degrees directly away from the Osc and power rails, 2+ inches
Within 10 seconds the choke was getting very warm....at between 11 to 13 seconds I opened the positive rail
Not doing so would have caused the inductor to open.
I will have to test this component now to see if its value is still the same, after the heat ;D
Secondary test test, ;D same configuration as above, new choke
voltage measurements attempted across choke with fluke 179 DMM
measurements taken +on collector side -on pad termination side
results:
13 VDC Input current=29ma current drops to 23ma with meter loading observed quick positive voltage drop decay to zero
15 VDC Input current=32ma current drops to 26ma with meter loading .002 VDC drop measured on choke
17 VDC Input current=36ma current drops to 34ma with meter loading -.004 VDC drop measured on choke
20 VDC Input current=45ma current drops to 44ma with meter loading -.011 VDC drop measured on choke
Voltage went negative in relation to initial condition indicating current reversal and flow into choke from the parasitic.
I burned my finger.........again!
Best regards
Jim
Hey Doc,You don't think they may have seen my work in 2005 on electrodes; www.stifflerscientific.com/electrodes.asp where I used an SS strainer as shown in the following picture.
Have you seen this video perhaps? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ThCLkzi0I (from this thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4494.0)
They are using simple tea strainers one inside the other as an electrode(s). Perhaps you could try this with the SEC since I remember you used SS wire for your HHO experiments, and strainers are basically SS mesh...
@All,@Loki
Todays experiment results:
Circuit is SEC exciter in the currently stated configuration
Power input = 20.12VDC base coil tuned to draw 43ma from supply
22uH choke terminated in an empty connector row 90 degrees directly away from the Osc and power rails, 2+ inches
Within 10 seconds the choke was getting very warm....at between 11 to 13 seconds I opened the positive rail
Not doing so would have caused the inductor to open.
I will have to test this component now to see if its value is still the same, after the heat ;D
Secondary test test, ;D same configuration as above, new choke
voltage measurements attempted across choke with fluke 179 DMM
measurements taken +on collector side -on pad termination side
results:
13 VDC Input current=29ma current drops to 23ma with meter loading observed quick positive voltage drop decay to zero
15 VDC Input current=32ma current drops to 26ma with meter loading .002 VDC drop measured on choke
17 VDC Input current=36ma current drops to 34ma with meter loading -.004 VDC drop measured on choke
20 VDC Input current=45ma current drops to 44ma with meter loading -.011 VDC drop measured on choke
Voltage went negative in relation to initial condition indicating current reversal and flow into choke from the parasitic.
I burned my finger.........again!
Best regards
Jim
Were you using an RF probe on the meter? The values you show look right but my RF probe across the choke shows 185Vpp.
So you don't think you have a lock on burned fingers I thought I would show you my finger ;D
@Loki@All,@Loki
Todays experiment results:
Circuit is SEC exciter in the currently stated configuration
Power input = 20.12VDC base coil tuned to draw 43ma from supply
22uH choke terminated in an empty connector row 90 degrees directly away from the Osc and power rails, 2+ inches
Within 10 seconds the choke was getting very warm....at between 11 to 13 seconds I opened the positive rail
Not doing so would have caused the inductor to open.
I will have to test this component now to see if its value is still the same, after the heat ;D
Secondary test test, ;D same configuration as above, new choke
voltage measurements attempted across choke with fluke 179 DMM
measurements taken +on collector side -on pad termination side
results:
13 VDC Input current=29ma current drops to 23ma with meter loading observed quick positive voltage drop decay to zero
15 VDC Input current=32ma current drops to 26ma with meter loading .002 VDC drop measured on choke
17 VDC Input current=36ma current drops to 34ma with meter loading -.004 VDC drop measured on choke
20 VDC Input current=45ma current drops to 44ma with meter loading -.011 VDC drop measured on choke
Voltage went negative in relation to initial condition indicating current reversal and flow into choke from the parasitic.
I burned my finger.........again!
Best regards
Jim
Were you using an RF probe on the meter? The values you show look right but my RF probe across the choke shows 185Vpp.
So you don't think you have a lock on burned fingers I thought I would show you my finger ;D
@Dr. Stiffler
No...I can't find it I'm ashamed to say :-[ So I knew my readings could be off, ahem, would be off. I was most interested in the polarity and the trending of the circuit's reaction to the meter insertion at specific supply voltages. The power was removed between every measurement and this sequence was repeated three times. The results are repeatable but that could mean I screwed it up the same every time, no? I must admit that you are the man for the burns, I'm not worthy. :P I'm going try and borrow one from one of the RF guru's tomorrow. I tried to post my backing plate work this morning but the blasted forum went south on me twice and I had to leave. I have to work on the photo sizes too. :D
Best regards,
Jim
You don't think they may have seen my work in 2005 on electrodes; www.stifflerscientific.com/electrodes.asp where I used an SS strainer as shown in the following picture.
Just an onlooker here, but still very interesting!
Has anyone measured the level of RF given off by this circuit?
Does it interfere with any radio equipment I wonder?
@ Dr. Stiffler ... this relates to the "Current SEC Circuit" .. the schematic is a bit different from the parts list .. the largest difference is C2 and C3 pF / uF ... could you please clarify ... sorry if you already have some where. Thank you
@Loki .. could you post some detail pics of your circuit ... thanks a bunch. This putz (that means me) is still trying to get his going. Probably because I do not have the coil .. and I have been trying to make my own.
@amigoYou don't think they may have seen my work in 2005 on electrodes; www.stifflerscientific.com/electrodes.asp where I used an SS strainer as shown in the following picture.
Haha, brilliant. I guess I did not look at that page on your website, else I would've known... :)
So is there merit in using the SS strainers in your or their configuration?
@Loki ... thanks for the info ... okay at circuits etc .... i do like the visuals to see if I am doing something wrong .... and I am with you beating something into submission until I understand it ... I have know doubt that the Dr's boards will be easier ... but I would rather learn by doing .. it provides me greater retention and the ability to experiment. I can see some of my problems already ... with you last info ... 2.1 vs. 7.5 pf. Once I get mine going properly .. I will be able to test a few thoughts that I have going on ... of which I will post ... even if they don't work, so as to avoid replecation.@nickle989
One thing missing in my set of tools was an inductance meter ... which is now on its way.
Thank you for the insight.
@the Dr. I do like the bits instead of the silver platter ... it does make the brain work better for the long run.
@Loki ... thanks for the info ... okay at circuits etc .... i do like the visuals to see if I am doing something wrong .... and I am with you beating something into submission until I understand it ... I have know doubt that the Dr's boards will be easier ... but I would rather learn by doing .. it provides me greater retention and the ability to experiment. I can see some of my problems already ... with you last info ... 2.1 vs. 7.5 pf. Once I get mine going properly .. I will be able to test a few thoughts that I have going on ... of which I will post ... even if they don't work, so as to avoid replecation.@nickle989
One thing missing in my set of tools was an inductance meter ... which is now on its way.
Thank you for the insight.
@the Dr. I do like the bits instead of the silver platter ... it does make the brain work better for the long run.
The silver platter has been around for some time now but for some reason no one wants to take it out of the box. I do not understand as I have not tried to be cryptic. I have been told that every driver does not need to know how to build a car to use it, this is correct, but this is not a car.
@All
After soldering this many SEC Exciter Boards, somebody should know how to solder ;D
@samedsoft@All
After soldering this many SEC Exciter Boards, somebody should know how to solder ;D
@Dr. Stiffler,
Do you have any plans to manufacture these boards in Europe?
We have facilies to manufacure and send through EU. Please let me know if you are interested in low cost manufacturing base in EU region.
Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk
MSc EEE. Automation Engineer
Mobile : +90 533 501 7166 (GMT +2)
Fax : +90 262 349 6454
Web : <http://www.erelgroup.com.tr/> www.erelgroup.com.tr
Adress : Yeni Golcuk Yolu No 64 VezirCiftligi Mevkii
Kullar 41607 Izmit KOCAELI TURKEY
@Plengo
GREAT VIDEO AGAIN!
Let me try to clear up my understanding of what you are doing?
You are powering the Exciter charging the battery from another Exciter? or are you opening the window with one Exciter and then having the charging Exciter pull the additional energy from the opened window?
It looks to me like you have a very large field in the area, have you tried taking your free floating board of LED's across the room and connecting the input to the service ground. If indeed you have opened this much area they should light from the ground connection only????
Good luck on the big battery.....
@All
This morning heat tuning exploration:
Input voltage=19.55 VDC
Input current=66ma
Ambient temperature=70F
Neon Temperature=128F
22uH Choke Temperature=92F
Transistor Temperature=80F
10uH Choke Temperature=80F
Just pure exploration,
Best regards,
Jim
@AllHey Jim,
This morning heat tuning exploration:
Input voltage=19.55 VDC
Input current=66ma
Ambient temperature=70F
Neon Temperature=128F
22uH Choke Temperature=92F
Transistor Temperature=80F
10uH Choke Temperature=80F
Just pure exploration,
Best regards,
Jim
...
You are powering the Exciter charging the battery from another Exciter? or are you opening the window with one Exciter and then having the charging Exciter pull the additional energy from the opened window?
It looks to me like you have a very large field in the area, have you tried taking your free floating board of LED's across the room and connecting the input to the service ground. If indeed you have opened this much area they should light from the ground connection only?
@AllHey Jim,
This morning heat tuning exploration:
Input voltage=19.55 VDC
Input current=66ma
Ambient temperature=70F
Neon Temperature=128F
22uH Choke Temperature=92F
Transistor Temperature=80F
10uH Choke Temperature=80F
Just pure exploration,
Best regards,
Jim
maybe you should also measure the temperature of the components under known circumstances first, so you know some of the characteristics such as how
much electric power is dissipated to heat.
Just a thought, but maybe not very clear explained. 8)
@Dr. Stiffler,@Loki67671
Then I'm gonna compare it to the Stiffler PCB devices. If I can get my hands on one. ;D ;D The VLT's are going in here too. ;D 2nd batch Doc, 2nd batch, ;) I'm slow but doing it anyway. See if my results match up with those of the rest! Unless you haven't sold out of the first run. Drop me a note if that's the case but no hurry for me. :D :D
I'm getting better by the session, trim a little here, measure a little there, tweak adjust and measure as much as possible.
I'm going to get it right on the boards too and then heat some water, just like I said. ;D ;D ;D
Comments, concerns, and criticisms welcome.
Best regards,
Jim
DR STIFFLER since we will all need to be on the same page with calibrating and testing our Calorimetry is there a way to do this without breaking the bank? Chet@ramset
@Loki
To get you started.
Specific Heat Capacity of Copper and some good basic info
http://www.chm.davidson.edu/ChemistryApplets/Calorimetry/SpecificHeatCapacityOfCopper.html
http://www.chem.latech.edu/~deddy/chem104/L5Calorie.htm
then there are many goo links that cover it all, but this is a good example
@the Dr. or if somone remembers ... which page had the test points on the circuit showing.
@the Dr. if I don't have a 400pf cap in place but a 390pf could this cause the SEC to fail ?
I am not using the coil cores to make the coil but I have found a similar core to wind on and have the one coil ranging from 2.3uH to 9.8uH and the other one ranging from 7.3uH to 23uH for tuning. For power I am using a 18volt battery from a cordless drill. On a large breadboard with an alluminium backing plate.
Power at the collector is 19.33 volts at the emittor is 11.46 volts just before the 390pf cap.
I know I am missing something just not sure on what it is.
Thanks for the help if you can.
@the Dr. or if somone remembers ... which page had the test points on the circuit showing.@nickle989
@the Dr. if I don't have a 400pf cap in place but a 390pf could this cause the SEC to fail ?
I am not using the coil cores to make the coil but I have found a similar core to wind on and have the one coil ranging from 2.3uH to 9.8uH and the other one ranging from 7.3uH to 23uH for tuning. For power I am using a 18volt battery from a cordless drill. On a large breadboard with an alluminium backing plate.
Power at the collector is 19.33 volts at the emittor is 11.46 volts just before the 390pf cap.
I know I am missing something just not sure on what it is.
Thanks for the help if you can.
@Gustav22,Ayyy! I finally made a real fool of myself.
They are not resistors. They are epoxy coated RF chokes in exactly the stated values.
@the Dr. ... thank you for your insight. As far as the current EE .. I have met very few that can't get their heads out of the Book Laws and the theories that they seem to accept as fact based around what the Laws will allow them to do. Unfortunatly the ones that think outside of the box they seem to loose funding very quickly or not get any at all, this I think is a great loss. I am by no means the greatest mind but do like to think that what I have does me alright along with some commen sense. I am not one that believes in overunity but do believe that one can manipulate energy and its very dimensions by many means and ways. I am not easily convinced and seeing is believing .. nice work.@nickle989
@All
On to the my humble attept to replicate the SEC ... I am not sure if it is running in SEC mode .. I do know that the coil has various spots where the led and neon get brighter. Have not had time to take any readings yet.
L1 - 10uH - should be only one but the LCR meter shows one only to be 5uH - gets me to 10uH
L2 - 20uH - variable coil (ripped from some phone), looks like the windings are 34awg or smaller
LB - 2.3uH - 9.8uH on top windings of 28awg / 7.3uH - 23uH on the bottom windings which go the just past the length of the ferrite slug and then to the middle wound to the same direction
Neon - not sure had to get one out of an indicator light 110v ... cut the resistor off.- will find out though
Led - just from a bag of leds that I have .. 2.8volts to run and a few ma's - will find out specs
The Led plug is plugged into the L2 - the Neon one leg is touching the one leg of the Led plug and not connected to directly to the L2 but through the led .. the Neon is also set up like the Led plug .. out of frustration I did it this way to try out as I was not getting it to light up the way it is in the current SEC circuit, I am sure this is no supprise to Dr. Stiffler but it was for me.
I do plan on building a calorimeter now and hope that the local electronics place will finally have a 400 - 470pf cap. I will take the readings and post .. good or bad they are results ( I am sure that the Dr. has lots but what the hec, I would not mind a few in the log book and maybe they might be of use)
I would load a larger image not sure on how to here .. 50KB limit on the size .. can't figure out on how to imbed the image in here.
What is this about the coil? You talk about double winding and the picture looks like a transformer (more than one winding). If this is in the base, no good. single winding of at least #26, smaller is bad.
@All@Loki67671
Alright folks........the SEC boards are shipping from Dr. Stiffler to a bunch of us including universities. I would like hear what some of your intentions are when you receive it. ;D What do you want to do with a SEC exciter? ;D Have you experimented with breadboarding this circuit?
I am a test developer professionally and I will eventually get this test design correct but unfortunately it won't be fast! I have a 4 1/2 year old that doesn't care about the details of heating water. ::)
Call for help: We need someone with skill and experience in calorimetry and thermodynamics, yes those of you that say this is impossible need to prove it in unbiased open testing and analysis or just stay quiet, to take the lead in designing an effective and accurate method of performing the required calorimetry on the SEC exciters. Bottom line is, regardless of your bias, degrees, profession, and/or technical opinions if you haven't built and tested this device then you have no voice of any value to this specific effort. You can contact me via this forum or PM intially if so desired.
I don't know how many, if any at all, will come forward. :-\ If I have to do this by myself then by God that's what I'm going to do! ;D
Best regards everybody,
Jim
DR Stiffler I noticed yesterday JDLN labs had a do it your self cold fusion [link is at top left of this Forum] they say they made a DIY Calorimeter maybe a good contact ? you would know if it would work here better than I Chet@ramset
Now where and by who will these results be posted or seen or heard. I won't name them but if you have been around long enough you will know of what I speak. Places that talk of AE involving Sea Power, Solar for Every Home, Gas from Grass, you know the places that push things that even your grandchildren will not have.I agree, I think you are on the right track that the scientific community will not accept this technology any time soon. Personally I do not think there approval is needed, If you released plans for a working unit to power larger conventional loads and these were proven and reproduced by thousands of people and sold on eBay for example then there approval has no relevancy. They are there to prove or disprove theories but it is the consumer who has the final say not the scientific community--- we decide not them. As well if there is an expectation of large profits corperations will jump on board irregardless of what any technical person has to say. But this success only applies if the technology is made public and proven in a public forum otherwise it will dissappear as so many technologies have for various reasons.
I know and am comfortable. But 'you' need to do this for yourself to see, it is a bit difficult and maybe you will mis a game or two or have the wife yell at you, but if you don't, well what more can I say...........
Hi Dr. Stiffler, I'm the Spanish order, thanks for making these boards available worldwide. Don't worry about the delay.@Yucca
@all
It's a pleasure to join you all in this adventure.
I'm thinking about calorimetry, I've ordered a decent glass lab thermometer and will get busy with styrofoam, tinfoil, cans etc. I'm looking for the lightest foam available so it has low thermal conductivity and also low thermal capacitance so the calorimeter will react quickly.
In order to measure thermal characteristics of my calorimeter I will take a 1/4watt resistor and run different DC power levels through it, this will give me a known heat source. I will try the resistor below the metal pot and also immersed in the water with the resistor leads varnish dipped to prevent electrolysis action. I'll try and get photos of my calorimeter efforts in a day or so along with some figures regarding accuracy.
Got the SEC exciter boards today... I've been playing with these a bit and there is definitely something very strange going on, nothing like this in any textbook.I am guessing that your scope is grounded to the service as is the ground leg of your power supply. What is happening is that the power supply ground is being returned through the scope ground. Now if your power supply is isolated (floating on both the -V and +V) then it could be interesting that it is firing through such a high impedance.
Using 19.8V supply voltage:
Draw at anode: 13.58mA
Draw at cathode: 13.58mA
Scope probe at neon, at anode of 1N4148 diode:
The best reading I got showed waveform period of 0.07us , for freq= 12.5Mhz-12.98Mhz. The waveform is complex. I would not trust this reading.
(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9586/secexciternw9.jpg)
-Feynman
PS
One interesting thing I discovered by accident... I connected the (+) side of my SEC exciter to my power supply, and then I clipped my scope ground (-) onto the negative side of the SEC, and the neon lit up.
@Dr. Stiffler,
thank you sir. I can barely wait to get my board here at home to play with it. This SEC is really weird. I can light many LEDs just using the ground and getting it close to a running SEC. Lots of energy everywhere near it.
One question, why when connecting the ground to a separate board having only AV plugs, chokes and LEDS would not only light but also "decrease" the power usage of the SEC? (as you've seen on my videos).
@All
Which other transistor could I use instead of the PN2222A that would allow more power through it? Currently my SEC is using it (some battery charging experiments, so far sucesfull) BUT it gets very hot and only touching the board it will instantly burn it. I already burned about 30 or more. I need a more powerfull transistor BUT with the same exactly characteristis of the PN2222A.
Anyone, please????
Fausto.
@ALL
Great video day, yes? ;D
Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.
This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs
@ALL
Great video day, yes? ;D
Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.
This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs
@Dr. Stiffler,
Indeed a great video day! I noticed some strange effects between Neon's when I was running two SEC exciters side by side or now in correct terminology sharing the window. Obviously it would be a tough call as to what was going on since I was struggling with the listening to you about the parasitic capacitance. Thanks for the information. ;D It opens new windows. ;D Literally. I'll be looking at it for sure. 8) 8)
Best regards,
Jim
@ALL
Great video day, yes? ;D
Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.
This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs
@Dr. Stiffler,
Indeed a great video day! I noticed some strange effects between Neon's when I was running two SEC exciters side by side or now in correct terminology sharing the window. Obviously it would be a tough call as to what was going on since I was struggling with the listening to you about the parasitic capacitance. Thanks for the information. ;D It opens new windows. ;D Literally. I'll be looking at it for sure. 8) 8)
Best regards,
Jim
@Loki
Stay tuned, the parasitic capacity is alive and well, the next video will cover that exact issue.
Well if you don't like "Window" maybe we could be more Star Trek and say something like 'Spacial Rift' or 'Rip in the Spacial Fabric'??
Hey Doc,@amigo
Pirate88179 was right, the SEC 10.3 video does cut off at 3:02 right in the middle of the sentence while you are showing the analyzer frequency.
By the way I see this is a Meili spectrum analyzer, which one? I read somewhere that people were not too happy with this brand because it drifts in frequency and only has one decimal point display making it hard to tune things...
Thanks.
@Loki@ALL
Great video day, yes? ;D
Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.
This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs
@Dr. Stiffler,
Indeed a great video day! I noticed some strange effects between Neon's when I was running two SEC exciters side by side or now in correct terminology sharing the window. Obviously it would be a tough call as to what was going on since I was struggling with the listening to you about the parasitic capacitance. Thanks for the information. ;D It opens new windows. ;D Literally. I'll be looking at it for sure. 8) 8)
Best regards,
Jim
@Loki
Stay tuned, the parasitic capacity is alive and well, the next video will cover that exact issue.
Well if you don't like "Window" maybe we could be more Star Trek and say something like 'Spacial Rift' or 'Rip in the Spacial Fabric'??
@Dr Stiffler,
The mind struggles to add substance to the abstract concepts. That is a bit more descriptive but not necessary for me at least. The interface is quite adequate if it is appropriate. :D Whatever it is you should have seen the looks in the EE world at photos of the big LED's blazing bright. 8) Cool experiment. I Have to get my hands on some new diddle sticks, seems I've been spinning alot of slugs. ;D The parasitic capacity, yes I look forward to it. 8) And actually I do like window aside from the MS Windows connotations. ::) I must admit though, I run windoz and fedora. :o
Best regards,
Jim
Meili has some problems and if you do not have a metal shop and some ability at working with RF then it should be considered a hobby unit. I think I put about 7 hours into metal work, they do not understand square and needed some modification. The electronics has another 10-12 hours into it, but now it is a fair unit for a grand plus some work. If you plan on getting one, I would say no unless you are going to get into it (maybe deep).
That is what I mean. First mine would not stay on as the metal work was so bad the switch kept popping out. Then a ribbon cable passing thru the chassis was shorting because they had sharpMeili has some problems and if you do not have a metal shop and some ability at working with RF then it should be considered a hobby unit. I think I put about 7 hours into metal work, they do not understand square and needed some modification. The electronics has another 10-12 hours into it, but now it is a fair unit for a grand plus some work. If you plan on getting one, I would say no unless you are going to get into it (maybe deep).
Are you saying that you had to mod yours to get it working the way you wanted? If so then it's definitely not worth getting for a hobbyist like me.
Any other units you could suggest that can do up to 1GHz (I know you hate questions like this but humor me, please, since I'm clueless about spectrum analyzers)?
@Loki
Looking for a Window into you coming quantitative results.
Well I guess its my theory so I can call it what I want
@Doc@Stephan
nice new videos and explained very well.
Is the second neon in the last video showing a beat frequency ?
Maybe something like this would work. I have not tried it though.
http://www.zetex.com/3.0/pdf/ZTX453.pdf@Dr. Stiffler,
thank you sir. I can barely wait to get my board here at home to play with it. This SEC is really weird. I can light many LEDs just using the ground and getting it close to a running SEC. Lots of energy everywhere near it.
One question, why when connecting the ground to a separate board having only AV plugs, chokes and LEDS would not only light but also "decrease" the power usage of the SEC? (as you've seen on my videos).
@All
Which other transistor could I use instead of the PN2222A that would allow more power through it? Currently my SEC is using it (some battery charging experiments, so far sucesfull) BUT it gets very hot and only touching the board it will instantly burn it. I already burned about 30 or more. I need a more powerfull transistor BUT with the same exactly characteristis of the PN2222A.
Anyone, please????
Fausto.
@ LokiQuote@Loki
Looking for a Window into you coming quantitative results.
Well I guess its my theory so I can call it what I want
Yes, the quantitative results, I'm working on it and also looking forward to that. ;D
Of course it's your theory and I'm not making fun of the name. I like standardized nomenclatures! ;D
The water vessel is my hold-up right at the moment but I will find a solution to that problem also. Zinc has about the same specific heat as copper, I wonder????
Besides I haven't even started debugging the and shielding the sensors or DAQ's. Much to do! ;D I need some technicians. ::)
I'm going forward as fast as I can. ;D
Best regards,
Jim
@FaustoMaybe something like this would work. I have not tried it though.
http://www.zetex.com/3.0/pdf/ZTX453.pdf@Dr. Stiffler,
thank you sir. I can barely wait to get my board here at home to play with it. This SEC is really weird. I can light many LEDs just using the ground and getting it close to a running SEC. Lots of energy everywhere near it.
One question, why when connecting the ground to a separate board having only AV plugs, chokes and LEDS would not only light but also "decrease" the power usage of the SEC? (as you've seen on my videos).
@All
Which other transistor could I use instead of the PN2222A that would allow more power through it? Currently my SEC is using it (some battery charging experiments, so far sucesfull) BUT it gets very hot and only touching the board it will instantly burn it. I already burned about 30 or more. I need a more powerfull transistor BUT with the same exactly characteristis of the PN2222A.
Anyone, please????
Fausto.
Fausto,
Make sure that you look at the hfe of the transistor, breakdown voltages, and the other specifications. Data sheet compare first and then measure your hfe values of the transistor you choose. I would say try using two very comparable transistors, like your 2222's, or the MPSA06's, in parallel as Dr. Stiffler has shown. The hfe values must be close if not exact for them to actually divide the load of work evenly. Also are you using heat sinks? Are you running above 24vdc? Just some ideas.
If that doesn't help let me know and I will try to help you out.
Best regards,
Jim
@ Loki
Have you looked at my site or the pictures I sent you direct. The container I use can be picked up in almost any cooking or housewares store for around $9. You paint the bottom a flat black, drill a couple of holes in the top and wrap the thing in insulation.
You are making it far to difficult for yourself, the SS container works fine when calibrated, has a plastic top, easy to work with, maybe your wife is storing coffee in one you can take.
@Dr.S@Yucca
I usually work with TTL level stuff not used to high frequency high voltage certainly not used to cold electricity or scalar stuff! So a quick question about the SEC boards; is it safe to stick a 10x probe anywhere on the board or do I run the risk of zapping my scope (1Mohm 15pF <=400v)? I have a nice 100x probe on order which should definitely be safe right?
@Loki
I'm impressed with that array of 6x1W LEDs you're lighting up there. Out of interest, to get a similar luminosity, how much DC power would you have to feed them? Probably much more than 139mW I'm sure. Probably more than 139mW even if you fed them low markspace ratio PWM at high freq, SEC looks like a very interesting circuit for sure. Wish I had the parts in stock, to proto it, can't wait for Dr.S's boards to arrive! :)
@Stefan@Fausto
no. I charged so far using 13watts of power from 12.30v to 12.46v. So I believe it will take less than 40watts to fully charge the battery to 12.65v and about 30 to 40 hours max. It is right now charging.
Usually when I do that with my SSG with 6 coils, it takes about 20 hours and 100watts of power to charge it fully to 12.65v.
I also already charged this 100Ah battery once and tested a load to see if it is really a good charge, real power and it is. Now I changed my SEC a little bit more to charge it faster.
This week I will know for sure if it will work better than well. I hope is OU too, cross fingers.
@Dr.Stiffer
Thanks for the tip. I already tested with so many transistor types and the best were MPSA06 and the PN2222 GP. Now with a bigger hit sink it seams to stand well the 20v and 130ma input power. I want to go to 24volts.
I also noticed the ground connection makes a HUGE difference in the amount of power that goes to the battery. I used some extra AV plugs and LEDS to get to the best charging signal. I am also able to run a little motor that serves as a good "measuring rod" concerning the kind of signal the SEC is generating. If it spins faster it also charges the battery faster but not necessarily sends more current to the battery. Right now only 60ma goes to the positive terminal of the battery and it does not even warm up a one ohm resistor which proves it is really small current going in (those are tricks from the Bedini Monopole SSG forum).
What is interesting too is that as I increase the input voltage the speed that it charges the battery is not linear, higher input voltage, much higher charging (kind of like exponential or progressive).
I also tried two SEC together but no luck, they all see each other and interfere substantially the outcome. I thought if one charges, what about 10, would it be 10x faster??? Do you know how to decouple them so that I could use 10 SECs together?
Fausto.
@Dr.S
I usually work with TTL level stuff not used to high frequency high voltage certainly not used to cold electricity or scalar stuff! So a quick question about the SEC boards; is it safe to stick a 10x probe anywhere on the board or do I run the risk of zapping my scope (1Mohm 15pF <=400v)? I have a nice 100x probe on order which should definitely be safe right?
@Loki
I'm impressed with that array of 6x1W LEDs you're lighting up there. Out of interest, to get a similar luminosity, how much DC power would you have to feed them? Probably much more than 139mW I'm sure. Probably more than 139mW even if you fed them low markspace ratio PWM at high freq, SEC looks like a very interesting circuit for sure. Wish I had the parts in stock, to proto it, can't wait for Dr.S's boards to arrive! :)
@Dr.S
I usually work with TTL level stuff not used to high frequency high voltage certainly not used to cold electricity or scalar stuff! So a quick question about the SEC boards; is it safe to stick a 10x probe anywhere on the board or do I run the risk of zapping my scope (1Mohm 15pF <=400v)? I have a nice 100x probe on order which should definitely be safe right?
@Loki
I'm impressed with that array of 6x1W LEDs you're lighting up there. Out of interest, to get a similar luminosity, how much DC power would you have to feed them? Probably much more than 139mW I'm sure. Probably more than 139mW even if you fed them low markspace ratio PWM at high freq, SEC looks like a very interesting circuit for sure. Wish I had the parts in stock, to proto it, can't wait for Dr.S's boards to arrive! :)
@Yucca,
The LED show, it is cool, literally. You talked me into it and I'm going to do that and see. ;D Lets take a comparative snapshot here. What is a fair comparison, 5 diodes in series, seems to me would be a "close" and I use that term lightly, approximation of the AV plug??? Since I don't have a luminosity meter presently this is going to be an ugly and subjective comparative study.
The Series string, call it branch 1, will consist of:
VCC feeding,
1. 1N4148 diode
2. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
3. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
4. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
5. 1N4148 diode
Terminated at GND
At the junction of #1 cathode and #2 anode from above the next Series string, call it branch 2, will consist of the following in parallel with 2 through 5 to GND:
6. 1N4148 diode
7. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
8. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
9. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
10. 1N4148 diode
Terminated at GND
Just open the AV plugs at the cathode of the second 1N4148 and tie them to ground. I'll feed this with a DC supply and monitor power input with the same Flukes I always use. 1 reading current and the other voltage. If that description isn't clear I'll post the diagram and results tomorrow. Take a peek at the data sheets for both the 1N4148's and the High Power LED's (Avago Technologies) If I find the need to do some current limiting I will take the liberty of doing so but the diagram will accurately reflect the circuit measured. We'll know within a day or so. ;D If I were putting this circuit together for a job I'd be planning on more than 139mw that's for sure. ;D
Best regards,
Jim
...A related train of thought::
If I could decouple them we would all have stable self runners. No matter how long the delay line if the end is returned to ground or back to the exciter it all dies. I have used lines up to 25 chokes long and the same effect. I have missed something big that is causing me many sleepless nights. The power is there, but can not use it unless the load remains floating.....
@Fausto,Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones... :)
@alan@Fausto,Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones... :)
@Fausto,
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones... :)
I'm still observing the thread, now and then giving a suggestion which I think would be helpful. I have nothing replicated.. yet :) I don't have measuring equipment.@alan@Fausto,Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones... :)
I'm sure we would all be interested in your results, are you running SEC on a proto-board in your exploration of the circuit??
@alanI'm still observing the thread, now and then giving a suggestion which I think would be helpful. I have nothing replicated.. yet :) I don't have measuring equipment.@alan@Fausto,Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones... :)
I'm sure we would all be interested in your results, are you running SEC on a proto-board in your exploration of the circuit??
I was thinking that if people have tried charging a battery, it is little work to replace it with a cap. Easier said that done though, but worth trying.
My intentions are to build a full wave diode bridge rectifier on the output of the SEC. The output of this would go to a dual capacitor circuit that puts one capacitor in charge mode and the other in service mode providing power to the SEC. I am still waiting parts, so I am still in design phase. I am not sure at this point, if I will put the capacitors charge/service circuit on a timer, switch manually, or base the switch on voltage. Any ideas?@mudwump
Can you please show me to where you have done it?@alanI'm still observing the thread, now and then giving a suggestion which I think would be helpful. I have nothing replicated.. yet :) I don't have measuring equipment.@alan@Fausto,Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones... :)
I'm sure we would all be interested in your results, are you running SEC on a proto-board in your exploration of the circuit??
I was thinking that if people have tried charging a battery, it is little work to replace it with a cap. Easier said that done though, but worth trying.
Now I understand.
Your statement:
**Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
Is this also in reference to how I have done it?
Many people over the last number of months have done this, although few have posted on the net, I have, so what is the protocol you would suggest that would be definitive to you?
Be aware that testing can not be active, in other words you can not hang a meter across a cap and watch the charge. Almost all test that have been done were conducted while monitoring input parameters during a timed period. Stopping the SEC and measuring the cap voltage and extrapolating charge from this. So please what is "not very objective" and how would you do it if you had test equipment??
My intentions are to build a full wave diode bridge rectifier on the output of the SEC. The output of this would go to a dual capacitor circuit that puts one capacitor in charge mode and the other in service mode providing power to the SEC. I am still waiting parts, so I am still in design phase. I am not sure at this point, if I will put the capacitors charge/service circuit on a timer, switch manually, or base the switch on voltage. Any ideas?well, a post above this one, I had posted the same idea :)
My intentions are to build a full wave diode bridge rectifier on the output of the SEC. The output of this would go to a dual capacitor circuit that puts one capacitor in charge mode and the other in service mode providing power to the SEC. I am still waiting parts, so I am still in design phase. I am not sure at this point, if I will put the capacitors charge/service circuit on a timer, switch manually, or base the switch on voltage. Any ideas?@mudwump
Unless you are thinking of something I can not visualize, how are you connecting this bridge so that it floats? The AV Plug is at a high impedance above ground, so what is the other leg for the bridge?
This has been tried by a number of people, but the minute you complete the circuit back to any common reference SEC is DEAD! I can not say this enough although this is most likely the 10kth time.
Now, I may just not see what you want to do, can you post to us a drawing? by hand is great, then I can see if I am missing something here.
Keep up the work..........
I watched your last video three times now and still have not figured out where you are connecting the one end of that large parasitic coil (grey duct tape covered unit with the metal bolt). I fully understand the replacement of the tunable base coil with the choke, but where is this coil connected???Thanks Doc. Yea, you can not figure it out because it is NOT connected to anything. I just put it there close to the board so that it pickup some of that radiant energy in a very decoupled way. It is the signal from the coil that is driving my experiment.
Thanks and great work.....
@Stefan,
I said 13watts from the input power supply that feeds the SEC after running for about 8 hours or so. That's the number I see on the computer monitor because I use a PowerPro from Western Radio to measure the amount of power I am using.
Today the battery is above 12.56v and so far I used 44 watts of input power to the SEC. The amount of watts I will get from this exercise from the battery will only be known when I do a load test on the battery also using another computerized device CBAII (also from Western Radio).
So I measure my cost of power from my power supply to achieve an output power from the battery. IF and only IF I got more power OUT from the battery than of what I used from my power supply INTO to the bettary I will have COP > 1. Cross fingers.Great, I hope you can prove it.
Fausto.
Thanks Doc. Yea, you can not figure it out because it is NOT connected to anything. I just put it there close to the board so that it pickup some of that radiant energy in a very decoupled way. It is the signal from the coil that is driving my experiment.
I just connected one end only to the probe. The other end of the probe is also not connected to anything. And just for completness, that is a bifilar coil, 400 turns awg 23 and 26 with a galvanized bolt of 1 1/2" long and 1/4 diameter.
Fausto.
@ the Dr. ... Have seen some interesting results on my hack of a SEC., some very good results (at least I think they are) ... using 2 digital multimeter thermometers, type K pick-ups, I can drive the temp down on the MPSA06 (around 44-45c) and the temp up on the neon (33-34c)... at the same time the voltage goes up on the input and the current goes down. Voltage is supply from a bench-top DC supply set at 18 volts ... ( I also use a 18volt rechargeable drill battery, just to make sure I was not getting something extra) .... The current and voltage is taken at the input. Have not figured out away yet to measure inside without upsetting the balance. When out of tune neon not lit up, or not at the right frequency and lit up .. LED's lit up ... the current draw goes up and the voltage goes down. I can get the Neon to go very bright but then the temp on the MPSA06 goes through the roof ( past 60c ) and then blows ... the current draw also goes up and the voltage down.@nickle989
What is kind of interesting is that when I add from 1 LED to 7 LEDs there does not seem to be a difference in draw or voltage. I am also able to drive half of a florencent light with the guts ripped out of it and using 2 plugs .. one for each side and the middle floating. This seems to drive the temp down on the MPSA06 to 38c.
Does this sound about right to what goes on? Thanks for any thoughts.
@nickle989
The short answer is no. I will ask for some more info and give a detailed answer tomorrow when at the lab, I am home on a UMPC and a great little tool, its like texting on a cell phone and not fun for an old man.
Are you using a sec board or a pin board?
The transistor should not get to this high a temp, what is ambient?
Hi Fausto,
how did you connect the bifilar coil to the battery, so that it charges up ?
Where did you connect the ground wire to ?
@Loki
With your LEDs, one chain of three didn't light because in parrallel LEDs need to be closely matched if your not running series resistors. You could try all six in series without your signal diodes, they should all light then. It's still very difficult to get a good eyeball on just how bright each test is though. One thing's for sure these SECs would make very efficient torches or bike lights!
@Plengo
Your battery COP experiment is great, I hope it's >1.
@ the Dr. ... Have seen some interesting results on my hack of a SEC., some very good results (at least I think they are) ... using 2 digital multimeter thermometers, type K pick-ups, I can drive the temp down on the MPSA06 (around 44-45c) and the temp up on the neon (33-34c)... at the same time the voltage goes up on the input and the current goes down. Voltage is supply from a bench-top DC supply set at 18 volts ... ( I also use a 18volt rechargeable drill battery, just to make sure I was not getting something extra) .... The current and voltage is taken at the input. Have not figured out away yet to measure inside without upsetting the balance. When out of tune neon not lit up, or not at the right frequency and lit up .. LED's lit up ... the current draw goes up and the voltage goes down. I can get the Neon to go very bright but then the temp on the MPSA06 goes through the roof ( past 60c ) and then blows ... the current draw also goes up and the voltage down.
What is kind of interesting is that when I add from 1 LED to 7 LEDs there does not seem to be a difference in draw or voltage. I am also able to drive half of a florencent light with the guts ripped out of it and using 2 plugs .. one for each side and the middle floating. This seems to drive the temp down on the MPSA06 to 38c.
Does this sound about right to what goes on? Thanks for any thoughts.
@All
A video on the SEC15-20 and the difference from the SEC15-3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJVsy6pGmMI
@Loki
What kind of temp sensors are you using? Thanks
Loki WHOA is right sweet @ DR nice 10.7 I feel like a little kid waiting for my secret decoder ring {thanks mr F] Chet
@SEC Board Owners
Messing around on the bench today and tried some different things with a couple of 15-3's, might like to see the results.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWEubiyXfLc
Loki WHOA is right sweet @ DR nice 10.7 I feel like a little kid waiting for my secret decoder ring {thanks mr F] Chet@ramset
@Dr. Stiffler
;D
Now we're cooking.
8) 8) 8)
LOL ;D ;)
Best regards,
Jim
@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??
@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??
Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.
Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?
@Yucca@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??
Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.
Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?
@Loki
You ask;
@Dr. Stiffler,
I take it you have designed this to operate at optimum heat output without the need to take into account the light radiating from the neon for COP determination? Is the energy radiating as light a significant percentage of the total power budget? Otherwise the increase in just the light is very significant from subjective observation. The entire interior volume of the Neon is plasma and bright Red-Orange is a very accurate description. Nice work! I can't wait for my temp sensors now! Grin
I do not consider the light from the Neon, but I do consider 'whole' circuit dissipation, not just the Neon. I do not want another can of worms like the issue with the LED's so I ignore the light. If you can get 1.2 -> 1.5 then isn't the light a bonus??
@Loki & Yucca@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??
Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.
Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?
@Yucca,
Dr. Stiffler will correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is my understanding that the surface area of the conductive plate is the key parameter not its thickness, and maintaining the same parasitic capacitance, 7.5pF from each node of the circuit relative to the plate and 3.75pF relative to each other, i.e. two identical parasitic capacitances in series equals half the individual value. I'm going to test a copper clad board cut to size also. Just to prove it to myself, but keep in mind Dr. Stiffler has very practical and technical reasons for the suggested materials. How will you attach the wire from the PCB to the parasitic plate if it's Al. foil? I don't think soldering will work but I haven't tried that. Soldering to aluminum? Not that I am aware of.
But a google search turns up http://www.tinmantech.com/html/faq__soldering_aluminum_foil.php
Tin flashing works well. I will let you know how the copper turns out but I'm not spending the money on special materials for the aluminum so just my two cents.
Best regards,
Jim
OK thanks Loki, I suppose Al.Foil will make a good cap then. I'll just use a small nut, bolt and washer to connect the wire to the foileld card.
Edit: I'll make the foiled card to the exact size of your video Dr.S. I'll probably end up using thin plastic, like on a margarine tub.
Well finally after a bunch of blown transistors and I have finally come up with results that burn the fingers without blown-up my transistor.
First pic is the waveform.The probe is after the variable choke and the ground is hooked to the negative. This form seems to give me the greatest results so far.
Second is the of the Voltage and Transistor Temp ...
15.3 Volts 0.04 Amps
31 C / 89 F
Third is of 22uH Choke
74F
Fourth is of the Neon
145F
At the last is the Board Layout - I have seperated the power input off the board. The large pin board that I was using seemed to have to much capicitance and I was getting termal runaway on the transistor when the neon was at its brightest. At least this is my take on it. I am sure the Dr, has a better explanation then what I can offer up at this time.
Well finally after a bunch of blown transistors and I have finally come up with results that burn the fingers without blown-up my transistor.@nickle989
First pic is the waveform.The probe is after the variable choke and the ground is hooked to the negative. This form seems to give me the greatest results so far.
Second is the of the Voltage and Transistor Temp ...
15.3 Volts 0.04 Amps
31 C / 89 F
Third is of 22uH Choke
74F
Fourth is of the Neon
145F
At the last is the Board Layout - I have seperated the power input off the board. The large pin board that I was using seemed to have to much capicitance and I was getting termal runaway on the transistor when the neon was at its brightest. At least this is my take on it. I am sure the Dr, has a better explanation then what I can offer up at this time.
@All
Part#1 on how I built my calorimeter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBrgPi4_Fqk
@samedsoft@All
Part#1 on how I built my calorimeter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBrgPi4_Fqk
@Dr. Stiffler
I have been thinking about the theory behind excessive heat observation on neon gas excitation at special frequencies, at given gas volume and pressure. And makes to build a bigger neon lamp and build bigger SEC exciter.
Can you comment on the nature of Neon gas excitation?
Do you think it is ball lightning happenning in Neon lamp?
A bigger neon lamp can be used for steam production? And house heating?
Best Regards.
Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
Well finally after a bunch of blown transistors and I have finally come up with results that burn the fingers without blown-up my transistor.@nickle989
First pic is the waveform.The probe is after the variable choke and the ground is hooked to the negative. This form seems to give me the greatest results so far.
Second is the of the Voltage and Transistor Temp ...
15.3 Volts 0.04 Amps
31 C / 89 F
Third is of 22uH Choke
74F
Fourth is of the Neon
145F
At the last is the Board Layout - I have seperated the power input off the board. The large pin board that I was using seemed to have to much capicitance and I was getting termal runaway on the transistor when the neon was at its brightest. At least this is my take on it. I am sure the Dr, has a better explanation then what I can offer up at this time.
The stainless steel vessel and $2.00 yardsale vase. Flowers in it! Huh? In any case the calorimeter is coming together. More soon.@Loki67671
Best regards,
Jim
The stainless steel vessel and $2.00 yardsale vase. Flowers in it! Huh? In any case the calorimeter is coming together. More soon.@Loki67671
Best regards,
Jim
Hey, with that big glass cooker you showed some time ago and the current graduated item, is it 'White Lightning' you are cooking up in that basement of yours?
@Loki67671The stainless steel vessel and $2.00 yardsale vase. Flowers in it! Huh? In any case the calorimeter is coming together. More soon.@Loki67671
Best regards,
Jim
Hey, with that big glass cooker you showed some time ago and the current graduated item, is it 'White Lightning' you are cooking up in that basement of yours?
Well glad to hear it, you know they say its all in the taste and the copper rules.
Doc,
You know good and well I use copper. ;D
@All
Part#2 of my DIY calorimeter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsChd3svkho
@All
Anyone out there that has a thermal image camera? If so do you have a SEC Exciter PCB? If you have the equipment and no PCB could I send you one to have a couple of tests performed???
Thanks...
@Localjoe@All
Anyone out there that has a thermal image camera? If so do you have a SEC Exciter PCB? If you have the equipment and no PCB could I send you one to have a couple of tests performed???
Thanks...
The roofing firm my father works at "hes there head estimator/project manager" Not a shingle pirate. Has a thermal imaging camera that i could use to take pics. I do their computer work and initially had to show their foreman that brings the camera on site to check for leaks, insulation gaps and heat escape ect how to get the pics on the computer . Plus there real nice folks. So if this meets the criteria please tell me, id be glad to get the exact model no or whatever you would need to see if this one would foot the bill for the test.
joe
Hi All,@Stefan
I have received my SEC circuit, but did not yet have any time
to fire it up.
Great progress by all users here.
By the way, just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP-RmzjN0l8
Maybe it could be used to use UV LEDs to enhance
the heat output of the SEC even more.
Purple glowing neon plasma has probably more heat output.
Regards, Stefan.
@Dr.Stiffler and All@samedsoft
Dear Doctor,
I am quite sure that there is a relation with Dr. Chukanov's ball lightning experiments. He is using microwaves and additional electron bombing to pressurized air,Ne,He gases to achieve 50 times overunity and steam production.
I guess you have discovered another triggering mechanism of ball lightning via RF waves.
I will send your findings to Mr. Chukanov and ask him to comment about your discovery.He has already tested his 500 kW industiral level overunity steam generator. We are negotiating with him on possible scenarios of manufacturing his devices in Turkey.
It is also appreciated to hear your comments too.
Please check Dr. Chukanov's free Ball Lightning E-book at http://www.chukanovenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=40&Itemid=54
Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
Plugs right into the PC. ;DWhy did you not leave it connected as when you did your initial testing? We have all seen wiring!
Loki
@samedsoft
A number of years ago I looked at what I could find on Dr. Chukanov's work and at that time detail were few so I have not paid further attention. The last I saw was that he was working in Canada?
I have received information (unconfirmed) that a researcher using a SEC Exciter built a five (5) terminal
Ne bulb with (4) terminals at 90' locations and a terminal in the center of the circular arrangement. He states he drive opposing electrodes from two AV Plugs off the exciter. The center electrode is at earth ground. It is stated that a very hot ionization forms around the centered grounded electrode.
Much to my dismay I do not have the capability or knowledge to build bulbs like this, but hoping to obtain one. If reports are correct, this would be a possible answer for a productive Exciter.
Has the good Doctor an underlying theory?
@ALL
When is Hot, Hot enough? See New video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmsKHmGq0ec
@samedsoft
@samedsoft
A number of years ago I looked at what I could find on Dr. Chukanov's work and at that time detail were few so I have not paid further attention. The last I saw was that he was working in Canada?
I have received information (unconfirmed) that a researcher using a SEC Exciter built a five (5) terminal
Ne bulb with (4) terminals at 90' locations and a terminal in the center of the circular arrangement. He states he drive opposing electrodes from two AV Plugs off the exciter. The center electrode is at earth ground. It is stated that a very hot ionization forms around the centered grounded electrode.
Much to my dismay I do not have the capability or knowledge to build bulbs like this, but hoping to obtain one. If reports are correct, this would be a possible answer for a productive Exciter.
Has the good Doctor an underlying theory?
@Dr. Stiffler,
I can assure you Dr. Chukanov is the leading researcher in the field of ball lightning. He has done RF excitation on 1994. Please check http://www.google.com/patents?id=nNIaAAAAEBAJ&dq=5537009
He has resolved the nature of ball lightning and he found how to convert gas into plasma state and then to ball lightning state. He has now world's biggest stable synthetic ball lightning reactor. He has patented microwave excitement as well at http://www.google.com/patents?id=HXIVAAAAEBAJ&dq=6936971
He releases very good information on his patents and he is renewing his web site on these days. http://www.chukanovenergy.com/images/pdfbook/Ball_Lightning.pdf has introductory information on his findings.
He notes that ball lightning event releases soft X-Rays, UV, IR and visible light.. This is important for SEC experimenters to secure their eyes!!! I am willing to purchase one but I am still waiting for Stefan's experiment results on SEC device COP calculations....
I will consult Dr Chukanov about optimum gas selection and pressure for SEC device in order to obtain best heat output. I will let him know about your discoveries as well.
Please try to read patents and ball lightning book when ever you have time...
I am looking for your comments.
Best regards to all SEC experimenters,
Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
Plugs right into the PC. ;DWhy did you not leave it connected as when you did your initial testing? We have all seen wiring!
Loki
So where does your calibration method fit in?
@samedsoft
@samedsoft
A number of years ago I looked at what I could find on Dr. Chukanov's work and at that time detail were few so I have not paid further attention. The last I saw was that he was working in Canada?
I have received information (unconfirmed) that a researcher using a SEC Exciter built a five (5) terminal
Ne bulb with (4) terminals at 90' locations and a terminal in the center of the circular arrangement. He states he drive opposing electrodes from two AV Plugs off the exciter. The center electrode is at earth ground. It is stated that a very hot ionization forms around the centered grounded electrode.
Much to my dismay I do not have the capability or knowledge to build bulbs like this, but hoping to obtain one. If reports are correct, this would be a possible answer for a productive Exciter.
Has the good Doctor an underlying theory?
@Dr. Stiffler,
I can assure you Dr. Chukanov is the leading researcher in the field of ball lightning. He has done RF excitation on 1994. Please check http://www.google.com/patents?id=nNIaAAAAEBAJ&dq=5537009
He has resolved the nature of ball lightning and he found how to convert gas into plasma state and then to ball lightning state. He has now world's biggest stable synthetic ball lightning reactor. He has patented microwave excitement as well at http://www.google.com/patents?id=HXIVAAAAEBAJ&dq=6936971
He releases very good information on his patents and he is renewing his web site on these days. http://www.chukanovenergy.com/images/pdfbook/Ball_Lightning.pdf has introductory information on his findings.
He notes that ball lightning event releases soft X-Rays, UV, IR and visible light.. This is important for SEC experimenters to secure their eyes!!! I am willing to purchase one but I am still waiting for Stefan's experiment results on SEC device COP calculations....
I will consult Dr Chukanov about optimum gas selection and pressure for SEC device in order to obtain best heat output. I will let him know about your discoveries as well.
Please try to read patents and ball lightning book when ever you have time...
I am looking for your comments.
Best regards to all SEC experimenters,
Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
@ALL
When is Hot, Hot enough? See New video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmsKHmGq0ec
I think if you over power a neon it exibits <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputtering">sputtering</a> , but that might not be it. Great progress here, I'm trying to learn more and more so I can start experimenting as well.@Freezer
I received my boards a couple of days ago and I've played with them for a few hours, great fun and some weird stuff going on.@Yucca
The fact that Dr.S. has measured COP approx 2 is astonishing and very exciting, congratulations!
I am just waiting on a mixed bag of chokes from china so I can mod my SEC 15-3 as per the video instructions, I was tempted to desolder my 15-20 unit but I moght as well wait a little. I've found some nice flat tin sheet and nylon standoff to make the capacitance plate. Then I'll tune for brightness and low input current and do the calorimetry.
Good luck to all those searching for COP>1.
Note: a tiny ball lightning can destroy the electrode in a few seconds.It makes large holes in the electrodes but does not melt it.only very high energy electrons can produce such an effect.This is a very informative document, I think there are many aspects to HV/HF currents that have been overlooked. I also like the fact there have been real experiments performed and this is not just another wild unproven theory.
--When driven from a DC source, only the negatively charged electrode (cathode) will glow. When driven from an AC source, both electrodes will glow (each during alternate half cycles).
--Once lit, a neon lamp has a negative resistance characteristic: increasing the current flow through the device increases the number of ions, thereby decreasing the resistance of the lamp and allowing even more current to flow.
--However, while too low a current causes flickering, too high a current increases the wear of the electrodes by stimulating sputtering, which coats the internal surface of the lamp with metal and causes it to darken.
--Most small neon (indicator-sized) lamps, such as the common NE-2, break down at between 90 and 110 volts. This feature enables their use as very simple voltage regulators or overvoltage protection devices.
--They were also used for a variety of other purposes; since a neon lamp can act as a relaxation oscillator with an added resistor and capacitor, it can be used as a simple flashing lamp or audio oscillator.
--In AC-excited lamps, both electrodes produce light, but in a DC-excited lamp, only the negative electrode glows. Thus a neon lamp can be used to distinguish between AC and DC sources and to ascertain the polarity of DC sources.
@ All ... here is some intersting read.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp
When my neon is going I only have have 1 electrode working. Does anyone else have this or do yours have both electrodes lighting?
Here is some interesting info---
From --http://www.chukanovenergy.com/images/pdfbook/Ball_Lightning.pdfQuoteNote: a tiny ball lightning can destroy the electrode in a few seconds.It makes large holes in the electrodes but does not melt it.only very high energy electrons can produce such an effect.This is a very informative document, I think there are many aspects to HV/HF currents that have been overlooked. I also like the fact there have been real experiments performed and this is not just another wild unproven theory.
1 electrode is fully engulfed From time to time the Neon flickers and gun measured neon temperature is 143.5F with the transistor running at 80F, the 22uH choke at 87F. Indeed 1 electrode indicating HV DC. The glowing electrode is connected to the ANODE lead of 1 of the AV plug diodes.
@LokiQuote1 electrode is fully engulfed From time to time the Neon flickers and gun measured neon temperature is 143.5F with the transistor running at 80F, the 22uH choke at 87F. Indeed 1 electrode indicating HV DC. The glowing electrode is connected to the ANODE lead of 1 of the AV plug diodes.
Thanks Jim, at first I thought I was going nuts. Have been messing around with my frankenstein version and have noticed some interesting things. I really need to get me some of those coil forms. When taking readings off the scope and I get to having the wave form duplicate the top and bottom (or at least the closest I can get it) I have the great efficiency. I then disconnect the scope off and the NEON gets just a little brighter and hotter. But at least it gives me a place to aim towards.
There is certainly more going on in this then what is meeting the electronic eye.
I am going to see how much the local NEON place here will charge to make up some custom designs. When adding another neon to the mix it somehow changes the ION field around the board in a disfavor. I also think that a rectangular plate is not the best thing .. round would be better I think.
I love my burt finger tips :).
@nickle989@LokiQuote1 electrode is fully engulfed From time to time the Neon flickers and gun measured neon temperature is 143.5F with the transistor running at 80F, the 22uH choke at 87F. Indeed 1 electrode indicating HV DC. The glowing electrode is connected to the ANODE lead of 1 of the AV plug diodes.
Thanks Jim, at first I thought I was going nuts. Have been messing around with my frankenstein version and have noticed some interesting things. I really need to get me some of those coil forms. When taking readings off the scope and I get to having the wave form duplicate the top and bottom (or at least the closest I can get it) I have the great efficiency. I then disconnect the scope off and the NEON gets just a little brighter and hotter. But at least it gives me a place to aim towards.
There is certainly more going on in this then what is meeting the electronic eye.
I am going to see how much the local NEON place here will charge to make up some custom designs. When adding another neon to the mix it somehow changes the ION field around the board in a disfavor. I also think that a rectangular plate is not the best thing .. round would be better I think.
I love my burt finger tips :).
Yes.....I have certainly built some nice devices and some Frankensteins. ;D It happens! But now I'm quite comfortable with adjusting SEC 15-3 and my proto-board circuits for heat. I have two more SEC 15-3's on the way and will try to get some heating runs in the calorimeter this coming weekend. I have to test the supply that will power the experiment. For now I'm just simply passing data from the DAQ's into a spreadsheet and will automate the calculations soon too. I'd be quite interested in the custom neon, please keep me in mind and pass along what you will. Good idea on the geometry, I'm looking into that also.
The change in neon intensity when you remove the scope shows or tells you that the circuit was tuned with the probe impedance loading the circuit right? I say keep that critter out of there and get a feel for this circuit by tuning in the dark for awhile. First, check that you have the proper capacitance to the backplate. Then apply Dr. Stifflers +/- current measurements experiment exactly as he instructed to set it up and see if you see differences in the supply branches. Tune for maximum neon intensity and minimum current from the supply simultaneously. Then try the experiment a few times. Don't change the supply settings at all. Just turn it off and on. Do it with the scope probe in circuit and then remove the probe and then try no scope in circuit and power up, you know try a bunch of different combinations. ;D Remember No Earth grounds! Not in supplies! Not in test equipment including possibly that probe ground clip, yes? It is a lot of rules to remember but I'm learning to listen pretty well. Keep up the good work. I hope to be getting the heat measurements soon. I'm going to rely on Windows to perform something for extended hours without locking up.....be afraid....be very afraid........ ;D
Best regards,
Jim
The SEC Exciter is forming a capacitive interface to the universal energy lattice and disturbing it with its extreme bandwidth excitation. Each frequency in the excitation is causing a vibration of the building blocks of the lattice and so confusing them that they become chaotic for nanoseconds of time. These short burst of time where the fabric trying to recover its normal quiescent energy state is when energy is added to the Exciter
@Dr.StifflerQuoteThe SEC Exciter is forming a capacitive interface to the universal energy lattice and disturbing it with its extreme bandwidth excitation. Each frequency in the excitation is causing a vibration of the building blocks of the lattice and so confusing them that they become chaotic for nanoseconds of time. These short burst of time where the fabric trying to recover its normal quiescent energy state is when energy is added to the Exciter
Precisely what I understood to be the mechanics of SEC. Very good analogy doctor.
That brings me a question that has been hunting me for a long time now. If the lattice of the energy is restoring its state after it gets "perturbed" by SEC and I am assuming SEC is only perturbing it very little, how much more in intensity would be possible to perturb that lattice to extract more energy?
Is this caused by the frequency range or would be more related to the speed of the gradient?
Fausto.
@All
A MAJOR discovery! In a few posts back I talked of the experimenters driving their SEC boards at high levels and either suffering the loss of a transistor or neon, well we are getting closer to knowing what is happening to the neons. The electrodes are being (it currently appears) to a carbonized material.
@samedsoft,
The book on ball lightning, I would like to have a copy that isn't damaged. The book at the end of the link you have provided is definitely something I wish to look at in depth but the document is terrible. I'm no pdf expert but this one has issues loading graphics and some pages. Or can you purchase "good" one's? :D
Best regards,
Jim
@Dr.Stiffler@plengoQuoteThe SEC Exciter is forming a capacitive interface to the universal energy lattice and disturbing it with its extreme bandwidth excitation. Each frequency in the excitation is causing a vibration of the building blocks of the lattice and so confusing them that they become chaotic for nanoseconds of time. These short burst of time where the fabric trying to recover its normal quiescent energy state is when energy is added to the Exciter
Precisely what I understood to be the mechanics of SEC. Very good analogy doctor.
That brings me a question that has been hunting me for a long time now. If the lattice of the energy is restoring its state after it gets "perturbed" by SEC and I am assuming SEC is only perturbing it very little, how much more in intensity would be possible to perturb that lattice to extract more energy?
Is this caused by the frequency range or would be more related to the speed of the gradient?
Fausto.
The higher the voltage the better the interface (limits apply), note that as you increase voltage in an Exciter that the increase in input current moves in 'steps' it is in no way linear. Also note that if for example you have an input current of 40mA and the exciter appears to present excess energy and you detune but the input current remains at 40mA, but the apparent excess energy is gone.
@All
Well I have the microscope view of the neon electrodes up on YT, its not the best because the scope was not meant for this type of exploration. I will be trying again when I change the light source so the electrodes will receive better inspection light. Anyway it does show some of what I was talking about and is interesting even though a bad video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRJ2GB_eF_Q
retrod is probably right in his theory. Would be interesting to see if neon working with normal electricity is eroded the same way.Also a simple check would confirm that as I suppose that there is electrostatic field opposite on each electrode and could be checked even outside neon glass.On one side neon should attract a piece of aluminum foil ?*Forest
I am here too. Still load testing using SEC. Not much to say until data is available.@plengo
I heard you were in vacation Doc. Is that true? Where did you go?
Fausto.
I'm just finding the 1 wire stuff fascinating, forgive me, I'm a nub in these areas. I just started powering up the board, and can see lots of possibilities. I await to see the next steps from everyone , Stiffler as always your audience is far bigger than the activity here.@Freezer
(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5975/4764vl3.jpg)
Hello Dr Stiffler,@drspark
I just finished reading all 50pg,,, I guess I'm a bit late...
The only way I can think of to decouple the I/O,
is through your HHO gas efforts, connected to a Fuel Cell
connected back to the exciter circuit.
Very Best Regards
DrSpark
I'm just finding the 1 wire stuff fascinating, forgive me, I'm a nub in these areas. I just started powering up the board, and can see lots of possibilities. I await to see the next steps from everyone , Stiffler as always your audience is far bigger than the activity here.@Freezer
(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5975/4764vl3.jpg)
@plengo
I have been told that if one can get away from the normal routine that it should be called a vacation. Lets say a working vacation, private jet with wet bar, yes it must be called a vacation.
Looking forward to your work, some great things coming up so if you find you need to move on, there is some good things in the wings.
@Loki
Wow, an LJ, thats great and you will get some useful software with it. You will enjoy using it and find all kinds of use for it. I forgot about something on your cal of you T sensors. if they are water proof, just call in a water bath.
I to know for a fact much work is being done, but not even the big nasties......
I'm just finding the 1 wire stuff fascinating, forgive me, I'm a nub in these areas. I just started powering up the board, and can see lots of possibilities. I await to see the next steps from everyone , Stiffler as always your audience is far bigger than the activity here.
@Freezer,
Can you show the connection diagram? What are the tweaks you have done one by one?
Also can you you explain what is the circular thing between the power supply and SEC 3 board?
@Freezer,@All
Can you show the connection diagram? What are the tweaks you have done one by one?
Also can you you explain what is the circular thing between the power supply and SEC 3 board?
@Freezer,
Can you show the connection diagram? What are the tweaks you have done one by one?
Also can you you explain what is the circular thing between the power supply and SEC 3 board?
@ALL
Well there were a couple of things going on in this forum that seemed to pull all attention in a different way for about a week. This is fine and Simon and I even took a look at it. Although now that I am back and ready to move on and I need the (worker) troops back.
Here are a few possible directions this thread can go and now and because there are a very small number of boards left, there are enough circuits all alike out there that we have a firm base to work from. So here are the directions that I think possible, but I am indeed open to suggestion.
1) Explore the decoupling of the output so we can get EI to do something like power itself.
2) Continue improvement of the Heat generation from the current configurations using a host of different plasmas.
3) Go back and explore the capacitor charging done in the beginning.
4) Move into the H2 production (although in my mind we need >10 to turn this back into EI) for everyday use.
Now I do have other thoughts but they are not fully workable in the lab yet, so no need going there or even talking about them.
So where do you all want to go and what do you want EI, H2 or Heat?
BTW If you want Heat, we do direct Heat, yes you can get Heat from EI and H2, but the conversion loss says go for what you want directly.
@All .... Does anyone have an ION air cleaner .. ionizer from a store ... if so could you fire it up around the SEC area ... couple of feet away .... and post some findings. It would be greatly appreciated.@nickle989
@Loki PM me about the code need ... not looking for $. If I can do it I will.
@nickle989
I assume you have seen the results of the question you ask? Let me say that the current in a SEC Exciter will always contain a % of ions from the local environment, the more ions available the greater its component. This goes to where I have talked about monitoring the current in both the + and - legs of the supply. Assuming you can integrate in real time to account for asymmetry (phase difference), you will be able to see and evaluate the portion that is ionic. The ionic is NOT SEC and degrades SEC.
In short, increased ions, increased Exciter excitation and possible over heating of the transistor.
@ DrStiffler .... I unfortunatly have not had the opportunity yet .. but only had a theory of what might happen ... what you are saying is pretty much what I was thinking. I do not have an IONizer yet. I suspect that you have looked at such results using an IONizer? I only have a few MPSA06 left until next week. I need to get it off the peg board and onto a regular board. I did see some interesting things when I used used a double coil to tune in .. will post more on that in a bit. Have you made any larger units? .. using a secondary amp or ?@nickle989
@nickle989
What is happening to you transistors? Burning up?
&&Have you made any larger units? .. using a secondary amp or ?
What do you mean by larger? The SEC15-3 is capable of more, that is the missing parts on the board and it does better. But alas we need more feedback before we go there, one hell of a lot of boards in the 'World', I guess sitting on the mantle or coffee tables.
@Dear Freezer,
Thanks for the information. I wonder how you add extra neons with capacitor plates to the SEC exciter? (I mean the connections)
What sort of change do you observe when you connect additional neon to the SEC? Thanks..
All I'm doing is rerouting to another neon so I can test things on a protoboard, I'm really just trying to observe things and understand whats happening, so I can't really say what changes are going on, as I don't know.@Freezer
@ All
I was giving the electrolysis a try, and wanted to know what this blue crap is? I'm now afraid to drink my tap water. :D Maybe its normal, I have no clue..It only happens when that wire is touching the bowl, and is partially exposed to air. I'm not sure what the bowl is made of.
(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6730/hho1tn4.jpg)
@Freezer
That blue 'crap' is Cu or copper from the wire. If you want to do this experiment you need SS. Now that green 'crap' would be chlorine, guess you don't have chlorine treatment of your water, or you are at the end of the line.
I can't remember where in the thread I posted the info, but "Fine" SS wire and a large SS bolt and nut for the other electrode. If you use other than SS and tap water you never know what will grow out of it.
Use only SS as I outlined and distilled water (lab grade deionized is best) to see what SEC will do. Tap water is a no-no.
@All,@Loki
When Dr. Stiffler said now the hard work was starting, he wasn't kidding. I have to solder up my integrated LPF with sensor amps and set the calibration resistor, wire the DAQ in, decouple everything again, and I'll be starting test and calibration runs. Wohoo! It won't be too long now! And then the hard hard work starts. 8)
Best regards,
Jim
Will do. I was initially thinking it could be a reaction with some chemical additive they put in the water supply. Never know what they are doing to the water. :s Its interesting that this can take such a low current and still work..Ralph Ring was right in that brute force is the worst way to do things.@Freezer
@Dear Freezer,
Thanks for the information. I wonder how you add extra neons with capacitor plates to the SEC exciter? (I mean the connections)
What sort of change do you observe when you connect additional neon to the SEC? Thanks..
@Loki
Are circular electrodes located inside the glass on the Xenon lamp? If yes can you make similar electrode outside the glass and then connect it to the SEC3? I am willing to remove electrodes outside the glass and prevent electrode erosion problem.
@All
I am trying to figure out and understand underlying theory behind ionization of gases via RF excitation. And how highly ionized gases turn to plasma state. I will check books and web for that.
I think SEC 3 can be used to electrolyze water to generate HHO gas, and then used to ionize these gases to convert them to plasma state! Below picture is a combined electrolyzer and ionizer concept. Helix electrode may be double helix as well. Looking for your comments!
I'm just starting to get comfortable with a chaotic bubble of excited lattice. Maybe I'm sadistic or perhaps I just hope someone else is paying attention and learns from it.
Best regards,
Jim
Quote from the X-Files,
"Someone's always paying attention Agent Mulder."
Maybe down the line we can draw up a visual of this, "bubble of excitation."
@Freezer,
Yes on both points. ;) Dr. Stiffler has said we can use an AV plug based probe and explore the field so perhaps we can start with that. :-\ I like visuals allot.
Best regards,
Jim
I understand a lot better when things are in a visual form as well, I think its a type of univeral language. You can also hook a simple multimeter to the av probe as well, not for actual measurements but just as a indicator.@Freezer
I know you guys are way past driving the fan but I just wanted to add to the pot. Here's a small video. I don't have a decoupling circuit yet, and can't take any kind of measurements, also my power supply is crude so I can read anything under 100mAs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4xdtiQj60
I know its hard to see so I took an image as well. Click on the thumbnail to view.
(http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1542/sec02jd1.th.jpg) (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec02jd1.jpg)
@All,
My twists on an LPF. I have added sensing resistors to the mix plus a Current Sense Amp, an Instrumentation Amp, and a High Side Power Sensor. Now I'm working on the bias component calculations and noise reduction / decoupling. We shall see ::) Thank God for hot air gear because soldering anything smaller than this is impossible without it, or maybe I'm just getting old. ;D
More to follow. 8)
Best regards,
Jim
Hi all,@gotoluc
I connected Dr. Stiffler's SEC to an Ironhead HHO test Cell which I had built last summer. It has one center negative plate and on each end there is a positive plate and in between each positive and negative center there are 8 neutral plates on each side. All plates are stainless and are spaced 1/8 th of an inch center. Please note that in the video I say 1/16 th of an inch which is not correct, it's 1/8". The size of the plates are 2 inches square. This is the first time I was able to get HHO gas production from pure distilled water (no electrolite added)
Here is a youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5y2dzXdGho
Thank you Dr. Stiffler for sharing.
Luc
@gotoluc
Thank you for the great video and the credit, you blew away my next video though. I was going to show a cell with one electrode composed of two wire about human hair in diameter and 2mm long. The other electrode was an insulated SS wire. As in my last video it only produces H2 and very, very little O2 and only through microscopic leaks in the insulation.
Anyway I am very surprised by the amount of gas you are getting, this is great indeed and can be seen very clearly. If you had access to a spectrum analyzer and tuned fp' to as close to 13.6Mhz you would see increased production, although you my not be able to tune here as I have no knowledge on what this big a load would do to the Exciter dynamics. Know anyone close to you that has a SEC15-3 with parasitic plate?, if so try it on your cell, it should really show a difference.
Thank you for the great and productive work.
Hi all,
I connected Dr. Stiffler's SEC to an Ironhead HHO test Cell which I had built last summer. It has one center negative plate and on each end there is a positive plate and in between each positive and negative center there are 8 neutral plates on each side. All plates are stainless and are spaced 1/8 th of an inch center. Please note that in the video I say 1/16 th of an inch which is not correct, it's 1/8". The size of the plates are 2 inches square. This is the first time I was able to get HHO gas production from pure distilled water (no electrolite added)
Here is a youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5y2dzXdGho
Thank you Dr. Stiffler for sharing.
Added: I forgot to mention that the core in my tuning coils is cracked so it's stuck and I can't tune for best efficiency.
Luc
@the mighty Stiffler@scraven
I find it very hard to understand something as a whole when I don't understand its parts. Namely the mysterious AV plug (I'm assuming this is where it all started for you). As far as I can understand it a alternating HF voltage is vibrating across the plug - much like an inductor in series with a capacitor with HV on either end. When the cap breaks down you get a damped sinewave alternating voltage. Is this the same kind of thing happening in the plug? If so I'm assuming you could drive one of these bad boys with a static influence machine - providing each pulse was a constant voltage and at a high enough frequency so as to nullify the damping effect between each pulse lost to the inductor.
Either way is there any documentation on JUST the AV plug you could throw up on your website??? This would be much0s appreciated by all!!!
Hi all,@gotoluc
I connected Dr. Stiffler's SEC to an Ironhead HHO test Cell which I had built last summer. It has one center negative plate and on each end there is a positive plate and in between each positive and negative center there are 8 neutral plates on each side. All plates are stainless and are spaced 1/8 th of an inch center. Please note that in the video I say 1/16 th of an inch which is not correct, it's 1/8". The size of the plates are 2 inches square. This is the first time I was able to get HHO gas production from pure distilled water (no electrolite added)
Here is a youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5y2dzXdGho
Thank you Dr. Stiffler for sharing.
Added: I forgot to mention that the core in my tuning coils is cracked so it's stuck and I can't tune for best efficiency.
Luc
@Dr.Stiffler@scraven
LOL - its was a compliment of the highest degree!!!!
I cant find any translations of AV's work. Only interpretations by Frovlov and thats as good as it gets. Is this all you had to go on??? I think the subject needs a little more attention that a brush off!
@gotoluc
Send me a private email and I will try to mail you another core or coil, which ever might be best.
@gotoluc .... you beat me to it ... I am waiting for my board .... take a look at the Bob Boyce design but use the Dr's power. I believe that a greater production can be achieved by syncing the frequency to the plate spacing, it is not key to using Bob's frequency's as much as it is bringing the cell into resonance, one of my ideas was to tune each SS plate to the same frequency by anealing, started this but it takes forever maybe now I will have to complete at least 7 plates ... plate area is also one of the keys in HHO production at least what I have seen in my tests. I think that Dr. Stiffler's SEC is also creating an envelope of harmonic frequencies but without a spectrum analyzer I think it would be pretty hard to detect. When using distilled water you are creating an almost capacitor ( I am putting that there as some may not know this) but when using an electrolite the capacitor effect would diminish. I believe that is why your voltage is on the rise. What did the voltage start with? You may see better results if you move the power leads to the outside of the cell ... you will need to recondition the plates though before you will see the results as they are aligned atomically different right now.
Nice work!
If you have a small toy hydrogen cell see what kind of power you get back. That would be courious endever.
@All,
She looks a little better than yesterday with the additional work. It functions on the bench OK so lets see what it does running and sensing a SEC exciter! One of the troubles I had with the RF was a sensing amp outputting anomalous DC sensing signal that was a result of common mode offset. Hopefully I've cured that but we shall see. The hard work indeed! I haven't even got to the point of trying to keep the SEC tuned for calibration and then a real run. I'm counting on my SEC-3's to have much greater stability than the hacks I've built to date. ;D
Best regards,
Jim
I added a tad of baking soda just to see what would happenI would not use baking for a prolonged period of time as it produces a harmful gas.
Hi Bill,
I still needed power input from my signal generator,
but as I could only go up to 3 Mhz, this resonant point there
was not yet the best one.
Probably there will be a better one at around 10 to 20 Mhz,
where I would not have needed a ground wire to the metal mesh.
I'm on page 8 of this crazy thread and relieved the show of egos is over and praying it's not the reason it has another 43 to go!@storre
Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of reference to frequency generators, scopes etc and thought it was time I got more equipment expecially equipment that would be necessary for this replication. Did a quick ebay search and found this which seems to have what I need http://cgi.ebay.com/20-MHZ-FUNCTION-GENERATOR-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-ZAPPER_W0QQitemZ280229778743QQihZ018QQcategoryZ97196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I'm wondering what dr. stiffler would recommend as basic equipment needed to work with this replication.
Thank you Dr. S :)@storre
?and this function generator i found on ebay? It's necessary and has the necessary range and features or does it need to be battery operated only?
I would not use baking for a prolonged period of time as it produces a harmful gas.@nickle989,
How long did it take for the voltage to rise to 80volts? How far can it climb? If you bring the plates closer together it should rise very fast ... but even with them apart at 1/8 it will just take a bit longer but have a slower prolonged time of energy release.
Now this is interesting. I just flushed the cell and let it dry, I added fresh distilled water and the voltage across the cell is at 12 volts with no power going to the cell :o. I connected a LED to it and it lit bright and volts dropped to about 2.5 volts and came back up to 10 volts when I unplugged it.@gotoluc
That is also a first for me.
I'll have to see tonight if it glows in the dark ;).
Luc
Added: this link was just sent to me and maybe of interest to some: http://www.blacklightpower.com/
Small video presentation: http://www.blacklightpower.com/AVI/BlackLight%20Power%20-%20Lunch%20Presentation.wmv
Now this is interesting. I just flushed the cell and let it dry, I added fresh distilled water and the voltage across the cell is at 12 volts with no power going to the cell :o. I connected a LED to it and it lit bright and volts dropped to about 2.5 volts and came back up to 10 volts when I unplugged it.
That is also a first for me.
I'll have to see tonight if it glows in the dark ;).
Luc
@gotolucI disconnected the cell and went to the sink to rinse it under tap water and let it dip dry over new paper towel to absorb the water, once it was mostly dry I filled it back with the distilled water (which is deionized) and connected it back. In that space of time I would say about 10 to 15 minutes would of past.
Interesting. How far was your water supply from the running cell over the extended period?
Was the water stored in glass, plastic or tin?
Do you know if the water was deionized?
Thanks
Stephan do you have a link for this Graphite? Chet
Now this is interesting. I just flushed the cell and let it dry, I added fresh distilled water and the voltage across the cell is at 12 volts with no power going to the cell :o. I connected a LED to it and it lit bright and volts dropped to about 2.5 volts and came back up to 10 volts when I unplugged it.
That is also a first for me.
I'll have to see tonight if it glows in the dark ;).
Luc
Added: this link was just sent to me and maybe of interest to some: http://www.blacklightpower.com/
Small video presentation: http://www.blacklightpower.com/AVI/BlackLight%20Power%20-%20Lunch%20Presentation.wmv
Hi Luc,@Stefan
your plates still have storred H3O+ and
OH- ions inside the metal molecule lattices,
so the plates are still charged..
You can do this much better with graphite plates,
as these store still a much bigger amout of gas-ions
in their lattice.
Regards, Stefan.
Thanks nickle989.Hi all,
I also think that resonance will be a key factor in a productive HHO cell. However I fell to achieve that we will have to use a more natural geometry, maybe like a sphere shape container with a centerred resonating anode, more like the Keely stuff.
Luc
Added: here is a link to a video of what I believe to be a real working model: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxnEQssJ4FQ
Hi Luc,
your plates still have storred H3O+ and
OH- ions inside the metal molecule lattices,
so the plates are still charged..
You can do this much better with graphite plates,
as these store still a much bigger amout of gas-ions
in their lattice.
Regards, Stefan.
@Stefan
So what you are saying, has he got a 'Joe Cell' running here, via the stainless? Maybe I was thinking wrong. I was looking back to the water charging we did, humm...
Okay, sound good, but still very, very interesting.
The Joe cell, in my opinion is not as true as what Joe says. The plates/water are holding a charge just like a capacitor will ... when pulse discharged between the freq's coming in should be able to start a chain ... to store H3O+ one would need something better then SS at least I can't see it ..@nickle989
@gotoluc - what is the SS 304 - 316 ? low carb etc
a high nickel content would provide nice reactions or platnium coated ...
A while back some lab was creating hho with a gamma ray and self ignititing it, they had to mess with the freq's though to do it. Way to much power being used to make it sustainable but nice insite. I can see the SEC being able to go a better route.
@Dr. Stiffler ... do you have any spectrum analysis charts that you could share?
@gotoluc ... if you have some SS tubes or just some SS bowls from the dollar store try it out just to see on the shape's relationship with the SEC
On the plate arangement use the BB series design just a lead on one plate end and the other on the other end plate ( + p p p p p p p p p -)
@nickle989
Spectral Diagram, yes, but for what combination of settings? See there are three major things that affect the bandwidth and the fundamental fp'. These three things are; 1) the base cap and coil 2) the supply voltage 3) the load. In an ideal system a change in load or supply voltage can be offset by adjustment of the base coil, also leaving the base coil in a set position and changing the supply voltage will shift fp' and increase or decrease the overall bandwidth.
Because of these conditions and interactions it would be very hard to say or set a specific set of conditions in an experimental unit. I resort to using an SA. When a variable is changed the result is readily seen and adjustment can be made to bring it back to a desired state.
I'm on page 8 of this crazy thread and relieved the show of egos is over and praying it's not the reason it has another 43 to go!
Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of reference to frequency generators, scopes etc and thought it was time I got more equipment expecially equipment that would be necessary for this replication. Did a quick ebay search and found this which seems to have what I need http://cgi.ebay.com/20-MHZ-FUNCTION-GENERATOR-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-ZAPPER_W0QQitemZ280229778743QQihZ018QQcategoryZ97196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I'm wondering what dr. stiffler would recommend as basic equipment needed to work with this replication.
@gotoluc
Did you disconnect the 22uH choke just after the neon points from which you are pulling the drive? If you have or have not of course would affect how much energy you have to work with. Because the LEDs and neon seem extinguished I am assuming you did the disconnect. Have you considered adding the paracitic plate to increase the drive.
I just got back home at 11:45pm. I had the cell working all day. It is up to 98 volts now and drawing 40ma. If I disconnect the feed to the cell and measure just the voltage comming from the SEC circuit it is 137 volts and draws 23ma with no load. However something has changed during the all day run, the bubbles now seem to be finer or is there less, or are they just taking less room ???. I had kind of noticed that when I flushed it out and refiled it with fresh distilled water earlier today and posted about the battery effect. The other thing I noticed is there is heat, not much mind you but the water is not cold. However I did place the lid of the container over it but not tight though, just to keep airborn impurities out, so maybe that is what is keeping in the little bit of heat.@gotoluc
There is one thing I did not mention yet, I have the ground of the house connected to the negative side of the cell. I just disconnected it and the cell seems to do the same just the voltage across the cell drops by 5 volts. If I connect it to the positive side the voltage rises by 5.3 volts. So either side it does not seem to have a visual change to the gas production, only the cell voltage.
I now have a better dv video canera with a firewire cable so I'll do a better quality video of the battery effect tomorrow and hopefully a cleaner view of the gas production.
Luc
@gotoluc@plengo
hello gotoluc, since you are also charging batteries. I notice that I could change the charging behavior in about 80% (I know that dramatic) if you pay attention to the wave shape of the signal "around" the battery terminals using a "floating coil" (coil that only picks the magnetic field without touching anything in the SEC or other components).
Some waveshapes will give you a much better charging and keep that voltage at what you can read when charging, while other waveshapes will give the results you observed. I have been charging and load testing my 100ah battery for quiet some time now. It is very time consuming as you stated, about 8 to 10 hours each charge and another 2 to 3 hours load test (if using a 20 hours rate amps).
I also observed that when using waveshapes that are just perfect sinosoidal in nature will give you the fastest charge BUT horrible load test. My best shape is toward what is commonly known on the Bedini circles as the "H" shape.
I change the waveshape using more chokes on the output of the AV plug and some "antenas" that somehow change the shape of it. Error and trial.
Fausto.
Hi all,@gotoluc
I have a new video available which is better quality ;D
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCbXJDK7Pco
Luc
@All,@Loki67671
The visuals tell the tale for me. The spikes are me picking up and moving the temp sensors. The dip in the red trace is the sensor for H20 when I put it into the SS vessel. The other two are sitting side by side tucked just under the left corner of the monitor. Now from this I will look for overall system stability. Next I'll completely assemble it and start dumping some known energy into the mass as a whole, obviously after I water bath calibrate those temp sensors but that will simply be done after assembly. ;D Green trace is Power input. I'll be fiddling with some additional decoupling too to smooth things out a bit further. ;D Data is being sampled on 1 minute interval and logged into Excel.
Best regards
Jim
@Loki67671
Hey man! (new generation saying) you are going farther than you need to go here. This is great stuff and what you have setup is fantastic, but remember it you have some gear with a combined error of say 20-30% and you have an Exciter running at 2+, you got no problem.
This setup really looks good, indeed. The one minute sampling may have to be adjusted after your first calibration run, if you do not want to post the cal run, could you send it to me direct as I have a few programs that can look at it.
So you are going to monitor water temp in the heat exchanger, the temp in the chamber where the SEC is at and the ambient? Or just the water and the ambient?
Can't wait to see data, great job and thanks for all the hard work you are going to to prove this to yourself.........
Thanks...
@Dr.Stiffler,
You are welcome sir! The data is forthcoming and yes I will send it to you. The bottom line is, first, I'm going to empirically prove this to myself with data and second lay it out in front of the world, and those that are doing the same and not sharing, for permanent record. ;D Then I'm planning on moving away from traditional fuels and energy just as rapidly as I can. I think Luc has just given us a little boost here as well as IronHead. Thanks to you folks and everyone else involved directly and indirectly also. This is going to "Rule"! Another of the new generations terms. 8)
Best regards,
Jim
Dr. Stiffler,@gotoluc
this is off topic but if you don't mind could you have a look at this new video I just posted and tell me what you think.
Thanks
Luc
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bXMgsW7Hu4
@Loki67671
Hey man! (new generation saying) you are going farther than you need to go here. This is great stuff and what you have setup is fantastic, but remember it you have some gear with a combined error of say 20-30% and you have an Exciter running at 2+, you got no problem.
This setup really looks good, indeed. The one minute sampling may have to be adjusted after your first calibration run, if you do not want to post the cal run, could you send it to me direct as I have a few programs that can look at it.
So you are going to monitor water temp in the heat exchanger, the temp in the chamber where the SEC is at and the ambient? Or just the water and the ambient?
Can't wait to see data, great job and thanks for all the hard work you are going to to prove this to yourself.........
Thanks...
@all,
Anyone know where I can get my hands on a hollow copper or aluminum sphere about 12 inches in diameter? I have another idea, oh hell
@gotolucThanks for your diagnose Doc. I'll try the resistor. Here is a small gift for your time: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=64SGT5HB it's a new video of a very clean close up of the cell, any closer than that and I'll need a submarine. The avi video file is 57mb and looks very good. I uploaded it to megaupload to keep it clean instead of Youtube minimum quality. You just need to enter the 3 letters megaupload ask for and click download then wait about 30 seconds and then click free download. If you can't play the video on your computer then install something like Cole codec pack (regular version is fine) and it should play just fine.
I would not trust any readings with floating leads. I would build a LPF with an r load approx = ohms/volt for the DMM and a few 0.1uF and 0.01uF across the load R.
The arc is putting out a ton of RF and it may indeed cause the meter to error. Then to the coil is outputting RF and this could also be very significant. Try putting say a 100K and a 0.01 in parallel across the load.
I do believe in Cold Electricity, but do not in Negative Electricity as this in my mind is similar to 'antimatter' and would cause a big reaction if it were present.
Nice video, but don't have much more to offer.
Hi Jim
Is 8 inches ok
copper
http://oldworlddistributors.com/cart_float8.html (http://oldworlddistributors.com/cart_float8.html)
aluminum
http://www.calibrationspheres.com/ (http://www.calibrationspheres.com/)
great work
pc
Where are the smaller bubbles coming from, the anode or the cathode, I would bet the cathode??? This is a case where the balance of H2, O2 release is not in balance. See my video where there is only H2 released.
Hi all,
I need to sleep :-[ but she wont :-* ... have a look: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NN5WV917
Luc
@Loki .. show off ... just kidd'n ... :P
Hi all,
I need to sleep :-[ but she wont :-* ... have a look: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NN5WV917
Luc
@ALL
A nice little Sunday look into the unknowns of SEC.
For those of you with the wire plug boards (I call them proto-boards) that still have an Exciter on one, here is a 5 minute test to perform that should cause a number of questions and additional understanding of the SEC theory and a SEC Exciter.
In the circuit included, put back the 400pF coupling cap between your load choke and the collector (same configuration we used from the start in almost all circuits). Add 6 1N4148's as shown. Place the neon at (A - A') and tune for max output. Now move the neon to (B - B') then (C - C') followed lastly place the neon at the end of the diode string.
So what is happening, anything new or interesting?
Dear Dr. Stiffler, Loki, plengo,@samedsoft
I have done some tests with the SEC circuit and below is the results.
Applied Voltage Consumed Current (w/AlPlate) Consumed Current (wo/AlPlate)
20V 17mA 21mA
30V 20mA 35mA
36V 28mA 50mA
** With Al Plate, it Neon is brighter and consumes less current.
** With building ground (connected to the Al plate connection port), And If we apply 30V SEC consumes 50mA!!
Result: pumping electrons from Air via Aliminum plate is better than pumping from ground???? Do you agree??
We measured about 50VDc at the neon lamp when 36Vdc input applied.
When we disconnect neon and measure the output voltage it is 180Vdc when 36Vdc input applied.
Is there any way to inrease the output voltage to 1000V or 10 kV??
--
Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk
MSc EEE. Automation Engineer
@Dr. Stiffler,@Loki67671
Starting point:
After initial setting supply was not adjusted, base coil was not tuned from first peak, just Ne moved as stated.
Supply Input reacted as following:
24.20 VDC 54ma No Neon 1.30 Watt
24.07 VDC 64ma Ne at A-A' 1.54 Watt
23.83 VDC 70ma Ne at B-B' 1.66 Watt
23.63 VDC 74ma Ne at C-C' 1.74 Watt
23.51 VDC 77ma Ne at D-D' 1.81 Watt
Edit: After this point I did start tuning and adjusting voltages but the first series was recorded with the circuit untouched except for Ne load point. Loki
As the neon was moved from A-A' through D-D' the input power increased from 1.30 Watts to 1.81 Watts. Peak intensity of the Ne seemed to shift up in frequency as the Ne was moved A-A' to D-D' but power required for that peak intensity did not go back down. Ne was warm regardless of where it was.
I'm still thinking about this. ;D
Best regards,
Jim
@Loki67671
Strange, you should see a doubling in neon intensity between each step from b to d (the end) and tuning should not have to be changed if tuned at A-A'.
My input current max is only 64mA and I would defy anyone to touch the neon when it is on the end 113'C with he gun.
What is the hfe of the transistor? Is it a MPSA06? Are you sure there is no earth to the plate?
This is a pretty stable effect and a circuit board is even designed for it in a different application, yeah I'll think also, I thought this would be an easy surprise!!!
@Dr. Stiffler,@Loki67671
OK.......You were right, my transistor must have been almost dead, it was having a rough go of starting the Ne. I changed the Ne also. After 4 different transistors, and yes these are MPSA06, I bought 100pc last time, I get to one that fires right up. I don't have the HFE meter here at the house, :'( I also tore the entire circuit down and rebuilt it on the breadboard and then retested. Now what I'm reporting is subjective for sure. Visual and feel. Visually I can see a bit of luminous increase as I move from A-A' to the END. I don't like to look at them too much because it messes with my vision some. Heat to the touch is definitely increasing step by step and yes the End position seems significantly hotter than than A-A'. The tuning didn't require touch-up this time and I too would challenge someone to hold onto that Neon at the end position. It will burn you.
So the farther out into the plug, effectively adding a pair of 4148's with each move increases the impedance of the load and thus voltage. So this is a way to increase the hi-voltage and thus draw more from the lattice? I can feel the increased current is being dissipated by the transistor as the heat sink is warm, not hot, but warm. I guess these components are only going to take so much of this and then on to the new.
@ALL
MPSA06, the most valued transistor in the world, soon to go the way of Barium Magnets.
In SEC Exciter circuits one should watch the hfe of the transistor(s). For example SEC PCBs are shipped with a transistor with an hfe <255 (currently). The transistors if used with the parasitic plate WILL degrade. The hfe will decrease. Typical 255 will drop to 100-120 after 10 hours of use at 36vdc (parasitic plate units).
So, install a socket and check the hfe often, it will change.
@All
Well we have less than (10) sec boards left and they can be configured either 3's or 20's and I need some vacuum tubes so am offering to trade a board for tubes (in working condition, high trans conduction).
The list of tubes I need is;
2) OD3
1) OB2
1) 5517
1) 5U4
1) 6AU5
2) 6V6
2) 12BH7
1) 12AU7
3) 12AX7
If you have any or all these and would like a sec3 or 20 send me an emal and we will work out the details. Send to stifflerscientific@embarqmail.com
Thanks
@Dr. Stiffler,
I carried out additional exploration along the lines of the circuit you posted Sunday. As can be seen in the picture I have added an additional 6 4148's and a second AV plug fed by a 22uH from the 400pF cap off of the collector. I'm wondering why we added the cap in series with the 22uH so I ran the same circuit without it. I put a wire in place of the 400pF cap. With the wire in place I notice that the ion current flow is at least 4ma higher than with the 400pF but more importantly I think is that my transistor runs much hotter, subjective, than with the cap in circuit. The transistor doesn't have to dissipate as much energy with the impedance better matched I take it? Another observation is that with the 400pF coupling the supply voltage tends to rise and current drops while with the wire the exact opposite is true.
Also keep in mind my batch of MPSA06's are lesser devices than yours. Time to order and demand better suited devices. ;D My fault for not checking earlier. Blasted mass production. I also found some real duds in that batch HFE's around 70 or less. You know I ran this with the transistor that came with my SEC3 and wouldn't you know I burned my damn finger again, I thought I had gotten over that, ::) Tuning the base coil either direction from peak causes the Ne in the "simple" branch to the left to blaze while greatly reducing the Ne intensity over in other "stacked" or "pumping" branch for lack of better terms and a personal deeper understanding of whats going on here. Yes both Ne's when tuned will burn you, but the one on the right gets you much faster, even with my lesser X-sistors. I'm running the best of my lot with HFE's at 160 to 172. Most of transistors measured out to the 125 to 145 range.
Just a little Tuesday morning fun. ;D Trying to learn all the time. ;D
Best regards,
Jim
ADDED: Just thinking into it some more, it is not just impedance but the balance of CAPACITANCE in the effective impedance. We can have many different combinations of L and C that have the same resonant frequency but the C to L ratio seems quite important here. I think I'm smoking brain cells this morning so I'll drop back and reflect now. 8) 8) 8)
Jim
It seems my power supply is able to drive an AV plug as well - when I take a single lead from the power supply to an AV plug, and put the breadboard on a sheet of aluminium foil, the neon/cap I've got over the AV plug will start flashing. I guess this could be put down to stray RF from the power supply, so thats something probably worth nothing - if you're using a lab power supply to drive this circuit, there could be a bit of power being contributed to the circuit which doesn't appear on the meters, no matter how heavy your filtering is.
All that said, I found it interesting to note that even when the AV plug is just connected to the power supply with it's stray RF, adding extra 1N4148s increases the power out (in my case it speeds up the flashing of the neon and cap). This seems a bit counter intuitive to me, but that said I am not an electrical engineer. Is there any chance somebody could explain why adding extra diodes increases the output, whether its a conventional or non-conventional explanation? I don't think the raised voltage has anything to do with it, as then putting two neons over the plug instead of one should draw extra power as well, but it doesn't...
Also, I thought it might be worth nothing that with just the AV plug connected to my dodgy power supply, without the backing aluminium foil the power out decreases *dramatically*.
Excuse me if all of this is useless and off topic, i'm still quite a noob to all this.
It seems my power supply is able to drive an AV plug as well - when I take a single lead from the power supply to an AV plug, and put the breadboard on a sheet of aluminium foil, the neon/cap I've got over the AV plug will start flashing. I guess this could be put down to stray RF from the power supply, so thats something probably worth nothing - if you're using a lab power supply to drive this circuit, there could be a bit of power being contributed to the circuit which doesn't appear on the meters, no matter how heavy your filtering is.
I've uploaded the following video which hopefully explains what I'm getting at a bit better, as well as the attached "circuit diagram".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8WSz4ijWgQ
It should be said that i'm not saying Dr Stiffler's work is just drawing power from something like this, but just pointing out that if you're using a cheap bench power supply, you shouldn't take overunity results for overunity results without first checking for things like this. I'd strongly recommend running the SEC from a battery, as running from a battery does not produce the same results as the video shows for running from my power supply.
I look forward to getting my SEC and being able to play around a bit more with what you guys are doing.
I set up some capacitors and AV plugs, and as you said, it seems that a capacitor connected to an AV plug charges. I got to about 0.8V in one night on an 8200uF cap.Personally I would go as far to say it "is" RF (high frequency oscillations)charging the cap through the AV plug, the cap without the AV plug did not charge and the one with the AV plug did therefore the AV plug must be the catalyst for the "charging" effect. Crystal radio's are based on this very premise----that is a tuned LC tank with a half wave rectified output. The question is what frequency is the AV plug recieving and from where? and what is the mechanism whereby the AV plug can recieve this energy?
That said, i'm still not convinced it is anything other than radio interference doing the charging. I've noticed that hooking a nice long arial to the AV plug charges the cap a lot faster than just leaving it by itself. Having the aluminium backing again helps speed up the charging, it seems. And lastly, when my cheap power supply is on, the caps charge faster again :-). With the positive lead from the power supply running to an AV plug, the caps charge at a rate of knots.
Again, I'd like to stress that i'm not trying to say the SEC exciter is a radio receiver, just that I think its possible that at least part (not necessarily all) of the weird results people are getting is just radio interference.
I think its possible that at least part (not necessarily all) of the weird results people are getting is just radio interferenceLOL ;D Some engineers have spent there entire lives seeking to understand what you refer to as "radio interference". Recently some fellows from MIT used this "radio interference" to send over 40w of energy through thin air over a distance of 6 feet to light a 40w bulb. They will probably become millionares because of there understanding of how one could do such a thing.
Hi all
I've got an SEC 15-3 still coming in the mail, but I'd really like to play around with this stuff now. I've noticed that the SEC board doesn't seem to have the big copper pipe for the coil, but the latest driver circuit posted on Stiffler Scientific does. Apart from that coil, i've probably got everything I need to set up an SEC driver on my breadboard, so I was wondering if anybody could point me to what I should do about the coil?
@zaydana,@Loki67671
While there may very well be "stray" RF floating around everywhere inducing voltages in circuits and you for that matter, have you ever measured these? We measure signal strength and we calculate voltages in the microvolt range. Millionths of a volt, that's real small. That is what I have around me as far as "stray RF" goes. A spectrum analyzer is the instrument of choice here. I don't know what energy you are capturing but I can assure you that the spectrum in my local is relatively quiet across the band in question. Definitely so in the dungeon of a basement I have, the SA shows nothing down there. There are a few small signals and the standard police, fire, commercial, and stuff in the 400MHz bands above ground level. That is until the SEC is fired up. ;D I'm looking at this on my spectrum analyzer not speculating. The broadband excitation is initiated by a SEC exciter and when adjusted correctly, as illustrated and shared by Dr. Stiffler mathematically now also, apparently causes the fabric of the universe to give up just a little bit of this energy to us. I am going to be attempting to measure this starting next week while on vacation. ;D I'm set up and ready to get some calorimetric data.
Hey, I'm not asking you to believe it and I'm not asking you to buy anything either. Dr Stiffler did not build the SEC devices for profit because at the price he charged he didn't make a damn penny. He probably lost money trying to get the average "Joe" to try and "PROVE THIS TO HIMSELF" Don't believe anything including speculative your own this, that, and the other. Just do it for yourself! Try to measure some extra energy being manifested in the SEC device. You are correct, an AV plug is apt to show you some behavior you may or may not be used to. I reproduced your circuit here at my place and it does nothing for me. I also reproduced Dr. Stiffler's circuits and purchased SEC-3 boards and they do some very interesting things. The broadband excitation alone is strange. Try building a broadband exciter and see. I still am just starting to understand this. ;D
I don't want to hear people bitching about gas and energy prices because it our own damn fault. Get off of you butts and start doing something about it. Dr Stiffler is and he's trying to share the workload. This is entry research work not application engineering. You aren't going to buy a SEC based hot water tank on the market anytime soon I don't think. You'll have to build your own, if you can. You aren't going to see cheap alternative fueled vehicles either, you'll have to do that also. Wake up folks, no one is coming to save you, especially those getting rich on mine and your oil addictions. :P
This forum is so quiet it is unreal. ::) What did you folks do with your SEC's? Hell I've gone through a dozen transistors and Ne's so far, at least. :D I've managed to build my own too and I'm beginning to wonder why the hell I'm posting it here. :-\
Have a great day,
Jim
@All,I hope you are wrong about this :-[ I was just starting to get the feel for the Doctor's great circuit. I was doing tests today and had all electrical equipment unplugged. My power feed was 4 x 9 volt batteries in series ;D all 9 LED's and Neon are bright plus had 2 x 4 watt night light bulbs glowing and get this, the bulbs were only connected only by one wire and the whole thing was drawing 50ma.
I have tried repeatedly to get you to participate and try to learn this and explore it for yourselves. I have been informed that Dr. Stiffler is going to pull the plug on this group. :'( Apparently the lack of participation has frustrated him to the point of ending it. Damned shame! You can bet that he is and has been watching and I'll bet he's damn tired too. Thanks for the hard work and sharing Sir. It is appreciated from this explorer. I'll be working with this for years.
Best regards,
Jim
@ Dr. Stiffler:
Anyway, I hope you continue to post here.
Bill
@ Loki,I have followed this thread closely from the start. I am in the same boat of others of not currently having any available time. I have ordered and received both boards. Thanks. The fully populated board I did try out and decided that this was worth pursuing. I just ordered and received the experimenter board which I hope to start using in a couple of weeks after my DIY house project gets further along and does not consume all my available time..
My guess is there are at last a few other people out there who like me have not had the time, but plan on getting involved as soon as they can. I'm hoping that once I've managed to catch up to where everybody else is and read all the "literature" on this (which is unfortunately interspersed with irrelevant conversations like this), I'll be able to help out with the research as well.
Regardless of what you choose, thanks very much for sharing what you've found with the world so far, and good luck with where you decide to take it in the future.
Hey Doc,@amigo
Try making some colloidal silver and put it into your eye, it will help with the burn, or just in general as an antibacterial/antiviral agent. :)
Hope you heal fast...
The new site is far from complete, but it will show that I have not hidden and the MIB's have not got to me.
Thanks....
Please confirm if this is normal.I've taken a digital photo of my SEC replication with neon lit in orange but on photo it is very bright white light ! Is that because of not visible for human eyes radiation (UV,infrared?) ?
I would not necessarily jump to that conclusion but it is possible. May just as likely be the CCD imager in the camera driven to saturation. Could be both! Loki
Second observation : burn from SEC is really painful ,be careful! First there is small itching but after that I felt a pain in full hand and stiff muscles.
RF burns tend to be this way. I have suffered quite a few myself. Yes I get pain stiffness later on also but nothing that I would say is out of the ordinary. It is the nature of an RF burn. I've had them from working with High Power radio gear mostly from transmission lines. :o Loki
Last observation : I used common transistor BC639 and it seems to work as well.
Define "as well" ;D Dr. Stiffler shipped his SEC15-3 with MPSA06's that he graded for high gain, hfe about 250, try to stay in that range. The higher gain transistors I use the better my results are. Just a little observation. Try high gain MPSA06 or equivalent. Loki
forest
Gee where are all the wood worms coming from, people that have never posted any working knowledge here are bold enough to ask questions?
@DrStiffler
The circuit diagram of the SEC15-3 shown on your website (on page "SEC Exciter Circuits") has the anodes of D1 and D2 connected together. I think this maybe a printing error?
@All
Now have a SEC15-3 creating a very good and stable Xenon plasma and hot as down under.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNVAmxrFiM
@All
Now have a SEC15-3 creating a very good and stable Xenon plasma and hot as down under.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNVAmxrFiM
@All,
First run is in progress! ;D If you think this is simple.......... ::).....Go ahead and give it a try. If I didn't have such a hard head I would have listened to Dr. Stiffler and just ordered two lab thermometers and a, coffee pot for coffee of course. Hours of measurements in the lab or hours of measurements in the lab. Either the DAQ does it or I do it! ;D No Way! I have to do it the hard way. I'll pay either way.
This shot is the 1st calibration run executing that, assuming my data looks good, should turn into my first attempt at COP measurements. Cross all extremeties. Here we go! First shot is the rig and the second is the strip chart. Yes I'm over sampling, call me a control freak if you will but considering the time it takes for this to return to ambient I'll abuse computers all day long. Hey that's what they're for. ;D I'll back off after I get a solid run. Calibration Power input is fixed at 20 VDC through a 200 Ohm 3watt ceramic resistor.
Best regards,
Jim
@All
Now have a SEC15-3 creating a very good and stable Xenon plasma and hot as down under.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNVAmxrFiM
Good Afternoon Dr. Stiffler,@Ben - K4ZEP
Received my Exciter board. What a nice piece of work! Have you happened to measure the Xenon surface temp with a probe or IR thermometer?
Ben K4ZEP
Yes it is a Caduceus coil ... late nights tends to bring out the best spelling in me. As for sharing any insight with someone that only is capable of wise ass remarks, why? It is a no wonder that humanity is the way it is. Taunting me will not cause me to release my private build or findings.
As I said before I will not give any insight to this local forum on the build. WHY ? because it is to dangerous THAT IS WHY and most of the people here do not have a good understanding on the Dr. Stiffler's circuit period. Take the time and read this complete thread. A regular pulsed Caduceus coil will give you headaches and nose bleeds, kidney problems and so much more, it can also provide good things. Surely if you want to cause greater damage or good to yourself you can figure it out on your own!
I spend my own time and money on my research in many areas, it is not for everyone especially those that are not like minded. Take some time and do some reading and then start your own experiements you will be far more fulfilled.
None relevant posts are deleted from this thread so people do not have to shift through garbage and waste time like in so many other threads.
@DrStiffler@PCB
Thanks for the SEC's and the additional item of SS wire. I've prototyped the published circuit from your website of the SEC-15, and while I've successfully driven non-linear loads (multiple LEDs, neon) in various configurations, it's not clear to me that this circuit can drive resistive loads. Have you had any success in this area?
@DrStiffler@PCB
Having slept on it I realize that the two diodes forming the AV-plug do in fact create a full wave rectifier, not a half wave as in my previous post. The top diode conducts during the positive cycle, while the bottom diode conducts during the negative cycle. The zener diode, LED, neon etc form the regulation function. Either side of the load is a virtual ground relative to the other side of the load, so the DC potential measured across the load can be positive or negative depending on your reference point.
@DrStiffler@PCB
Having slept on it I realize that the two diodes forming the AV-plug do in fact create a full wave rectifier, not a half wave as in my previous post. The top diode conducts during the positive cycle, while the bottom diode conducts during the negative cycle. The zener diode, LED, neon etc form the regulation function. Either side of the load is a virtual ground relative to the other side of the load, so the DC potential measured across the load can be positive or negative depending on your reference point.
@DrStiffler@PCB
From my observation the DC current flows only in one direction from the Positive node to the negative node. There is no bidirectional DC current flow, neither could there be since that is the nature of DC. The AC voltage component simply sites on top of the DC voltage. Yes you can vector sum the amplitudes of the DC and AC voltages.
@DrStiffler,@fritz
(Hi BTW)
As far as I can remember there was already some consense
that the 2 slow diodes of the AV plug operate as a pseudo
random modulated charge pump.
A higher voltage on the charge pump can transfer more charge
at the same capacity. (which is a highly nonlinear capacity in this case).
During the charge transfer, the impedance of the AV plug is highZ (with high
voltage).
By connecting a resistor to the output of the AV plug - you damp the voltage
during the charge transfer by a high degree -> no output.(low charge transfer)
->The output resistance of the AV plug is only low in some part of the cycle.
By using a SIDAC, NEON or a synchronous rectifier - you can extract(harvest)
the transfered charge in the moment where the output resistance of the
AV plug is low without dampening the charge transfer.
what do you think ?
Are you sure about this AC ? I have measured something quite different ; AC in one direction but no AC when probes are reversed . I may be wrong but it looks like a pulsating DC (or maybe more then one field superposed ?) which deceive AC meter as being truly AC.Could someone confirm my finding ?
So many questions...I hope my comment is on topic ;-)
@fritz
I would say (cautiously) that is pretty close to reality.
If I may then have a shot as something a little outside of reality then, so much so I doubt it.@aether22
Could it be that it is pulling in EM waves and rectifying them with the diodes? (This may sound a bit far out but Stiffler has found a field around some of these circuits that does not get weaker with distance but rather abruptly ends at a distance)
If so then a few thoughts occur.
First it would be interesting to add an antenna to the plug, I would recommend a coil made of multistrand wire, and possibly to wave coils and anything creating EM near it. (it is very likely pulling fields from the circuits that drive it, but it should be possible to add alternate fields to pull in)
Second, it may just be possibly to try this without diodes if this theory is correct, instead connect the single wire to an antenna (coil), and a load, possibly also a cap to help tune in a field, maybe deliberately detuning this from the circuit driving it, and comparing the ability to pickup a field from a nearby EM source with and without the sec active.
So don't rule out that it may be something more.
I got into this before most anyone else and am thinking that maybe just maybe I should hop back in, it sure seems that I should not have any trouble getting the basic effect since I can order a circuit.
But moreover it seems to me that if the magic is in the plug (otherwise why use it?) then any means of generating an AV plug oscillator should allow research into it and not just the highly efficient tiny circuits Stiffler is using, I am interested in how the plug works and not efficiency, hmmm.
"The efficiency of a SEC Exciter increases with decreased diode capacity" - Mistake??? :-\
"that the whole phenomenon is taking place in the small junctions of the diodes" - But you don't need diodes (see alternate embodiments in the AV patent.)
Burning water, what an interesting thought. What would it take?, large microwave generators, huge electric discharge. Sometimes the most difficult is the most easy.
I put the first video of a new short series on how to burn water the simple way. I will get the new couple up on-line as time allows.
Anyway enjoy the first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsX-j53_FDg
@All Electrolysis Interests
Why make electrolyzer so big, bulky and material intensive?
A proof of concept SEC15-3 with a slightly bigger in wire gauge output coil, doing direct electrolysis of tap water. The electrodes are the fine SS multi-strand wire I have already described.
At first blush one would say 'No Way', but that is not the case.
Dr. Stiffler:@Pirate88179
Great video!!! This is fascinating. The only other sustained flame I have heard of is the Dr. (cancer research) in FL who I think is using one or more frequencies of RF. I am sure his power input level is at least 100 times more than yours. I would like to see this researched more as it could be the key everyone has been looking for. Maybe it is not "brute force" required to separate water into H and O2. That way works, sure, but, I believe there is a better way and you may have just found it.
Bill
It seems you have found a way to do it (AV plug) with a single diode!@aether22
Dr Stiffler and friendsHumm.... Why do I get the feeling I know you?
Can I ask a question please?
I remove the neon from the SEC15-3 board and the output of the choke is connected to a remote AV plug+neon via a single wire. The remote neon is lit until I close my hand around the single wire. When my hand holds the single wire the neon is extinguished. What is being blocked by my hand?
thanks
Lattice333
Humm.... Why do I get the feeling I know you?
So you have not considered the fact that you are detuning the exciter with you body mass with what has now become an antenna?
Just a thought :D
Dr Stiffler,@forest
Is there any sure method to differentiate possibly two events : de-tuning SEC exciter from shorting energy path to the ground throught the body mass ? I saw strange effect (I wish someone could confirm it) - touch one neon lead and light vanish,restart circuit,then touch another lead and light seems to become stronger.WARNING! I DON'T RECOMMEND DOING THIS! IT HURTS!!!! ANYWAY DO NOT DO IT LONGER THEN A SECOND.I feel that I should use insulated metal plate instead of my hand but I have no one nearby...
@forest
Sorry but I am not sure I understand your question and what you were doing, but let me offer an example.
A Exciter can do some very strange things with the local environment, under 10m and some interesting things at 1m or less. An example is the holding of a neon by one lead and touching it to the exciter. The neon will light and under conditions I do not understand, you can pull the neon away from the exciter and the neon will remain glowing as string as it did when touching the exciter. In fact I have a video where this can be seen. You can place the neon on a surface and it will extinguish when you let go of it. Some times you can pick it back up and it will light. The flip side is the times it will never work. I think when strange things start to take place its time to turn the video on.
Okay maybe I did ot answer the question as you wish. Maybe if you ask in a bit different way or with more detail I will get it. The more you work with one and the more you try, the stranger it all seems.
@forest
Sorry but I am not sure I understand your question and what you were doing, but let me offer an example.
A Exciter can do some very strange things with the local environment, under 10m and some interesting things at 1m or less. An example is the holding of a neon by one lead and touching it to the exciter. The neon will light and under conditions I do not understand, you can pull the neon away from the exciter and the neon will remain glowing as string as it did when touching the exciter. In fact I have a video where this can be seen. You can place the neon on a surface and it will extinguish when you let go of it. Some times you can pick it back up and it will light. The flip side is the times it will never work. I think when strange things start to take place its time to turn the video on.
Okay maybe I did ot answer the question as you wish. Maybe if you ask in a bit different way or with more detail I will get it. The more you work with one and the more you try, the stranger it all seems.
I remove the neon from the SEC15-3 board and the output of the choke is connected to a remote AV plug+neon via a single wire. The remote neon is lit until I close my hand around the single wire. When my hand holds the single wire the neon is extinguished. What is being blocked by my hand?
I have never had this happen wit SS before in any of my cells, but of course the reactor is a bit different.
Well I also just replicated your electrolysis circuit. What can I say: It works...@Shanti
After some testing one thing really showed up: This thing doesn't behave as a normal electrolysis would!
It is far not as distance and water resistance dependable as normal electrolysis.
The funny thing is, after I charged some water by hangig some single HV DC wire in a bottle, and took the wire out again, I realized what static electricity is, after I touched the water...OUCH...(it seems water has quite some static capacity)
This was a long time ago. I then thought, what if one does do electrolysis like that. Which means charge the water through a wire and then discharge it again through another wire. But one after the other, not at the same time. Like that it will never be possible that some current will flow through the water. But as I'm actually a very busy man, I didn't ever try to actually build a circuit for tests...It seems now, that I should have done it...But thanks to you, I now have. For as I see it, this is exactly what your circuit does. What do you think about it?
And when I look at your circuit I have to say, some little modifications, and you have a Stan Meyer Circuit.
But one thing I observed while measuring the circuit with my oscilloscopse. In my circuit the voltage spike on the transistor collector gets easily up and above 100V. And the transistor is actually only made to withstand 100V. So the transistor is really running at the limit...
The voltage levels on the electrolysis electrodes actually show, that due to the fact that one now does not allow current to flow from one electrode to the other at the same time, it is now possible to charge the water to high voltage levels (in my case 50V), but without the problem of an excessive current flowing.
Now, what could we expect if we drive the voltage levels up to 40kV like Stan Meyer did...
I will look at your site. Thank you.You can play that game so far that you blow the internal electrolytic cap of
Well I just replaced the coil, with a much bigger one (0.3H). And LOL, if the readings on my power supply would be correct, I now generate electricity ( - 0.07A, before I had +0.05A) LOL (and this is quite a professional power supply)
Sure this reading is a measurement error due to the HF impulses. But now I can understand why so many people with other devices are so easily convinced they developed an OU device...and then disappointed if they are not able to close the loop...
If only I had more time...
I blow the cap of my $250,- Powersupply with the back-emf of my stepper motors...
LOL, well mine did cost about $500.
Well with your advice of the caps it should be possible to get more or less usable readings at least for this application, as the transistor has some frequency limit, but I think if you use really UHF Impulses (like from a Spark gap), you will have such high frequency components in it that it's almost impossible to measure them anymore correctly. Especially if they are not only HF but also HighVoltage.
The parasitic components (inductance and capacitance) of even a normal shunt resistors (and of course the wiring) will then surface and badly influence your readings...
Do you know of any method, other than the good old heat wire power meters to measure accurate in these conditions?
For I for myself, when I watch some YouTube videos of e.g. a Newman or a Bedini, showing the reading on conventional Digital-Meter, just have to laugh. For this actually doesn't show anything, but the lack of understanding, how to measure correctly.
LOL, well mine did cost about $500.@Shanti
Well with your advice of the caps it should be possible to get more or less usable readings at least for this application, as the transistor has some frequency limit, but I think if you use really UHF Impulses (like from a Spark gap), you will have such high frequency components in it that it's almost impossible to measure them anymore correctly. Especially if they are not only HF but also HighVoltage.
The parasitic components (inductance and capacitance) of even a normal shunt resistors (and of course the wiring) will then surface and badly influence your readings...
Do you know of any method, other than the good old heat wire power meters to measure accurate in these conditions?
For I for myself, when I watch some YouTube videos of e.g. a Newman or a Bedini, showing the reading on conventional Digital-Meter, just have to laugh. For this actually doesn't show anything, but the lack of understanding, how to measure correctly.
@Stiffler:
Did you try, at which frequency the electrolysis starts to work?
I for myself, just tried it with 50Hz (mains freq). Took a Neon transformer and 2 diodes at one side (other side at GND). No electrolysis. But the "capacitance" of the water is enough to easily get sparks if you have one cable in the water and the other above it. I would really like to know, what would be the minimum frequency to get an electrolysis with this method.
Seems, like when I got some time, I will have to do sime freq-sweep...
Doc,@amigo
What has happened to your website, it's not accessible anymore?
Did you take it down or you are being el-cheapo by not wanting to pay $4/mo for shared hosting on the Net.
Hell I'll host your site on my private server for free if you want?
Here's a party trick for you all to try.@Lattice333
Connect a 7w incandesant bulb (mains power) by one wire, lower it upside down into a jar of water until everything is under water except the single connecting wire. Power the single wire with a SEC15-3 with AV plug removed and the bulb lights up! Enjoy the puzzled looks this gets.
Does RF behave like that? Dr Stiffler? Aether22?
out of focus photos follow.
Enjoy
Here's a party trick for you all to try.
Connect a 7w incandesant bulb (mains power) by one wire, lower it upside down into a jar of water until everything is under water except the single connecting wire. Power the single wire with a SEC15-3 with AV plug removed and the bulb lights up! Enjoy the puzzled looks this gets.
Does RF behave like that? Dr Stiffler? Aether22?
out of focus photos follow.
Enjoy
@DrStiffler & Kz4ep Thank you for replicating my setup. Great work. I wish I had some of your test equipment!@Lattice333
@DrStiffler Gen3 sounds great - put me down for one. I'm excited. I could not follow how to register interest?
I think my party trick raises many serious questions which we can gain from if we pause and share our thoughts and questions.
Some questions is would be good to consider and discuss;
Why is this type of bulb particularly friendly to the reception of energy from the lattice. Is it the higher than usual resistance? The longer than usual filament length or something else?
Why is water a "better interface to the lattice"? Diamagnetic property, dielectric property or something else?
Does the lattice respond to different substances at different rates? Could the variation create energy that can be tapped? How would you amplify the variation?
How do we get the bulb fully lit?
@Lattice333
See the video, answers some of your questions. The others would better be in a College Lecture, the answers would cause such a back lash in this format that I will not even consider it.
Hey! Haven't you got the light in the water to sing yet???
Well i'm about half way through the thread and there are some fascinating experiments going on.. But there are many references to DR Stiffler's website but everytime I try to access the site, it's down? is there another place to find the information referenced?@waterhouse24
Here's a photo of two SEC-15's connected to one bulb. One connected to the center the other connected to the outer base (no water). The power output appears to be additive. The two SEC-15's were tuned for maximum light output of the lamp.
RD
And I do remember Mr. Wizard. ;D
Jim
He was my hero too may he rest in peace.
Ben
@All,
Everyone is REALLY mad at me now! Oh Well! Dig it. A big pancake Fan motor running on two SEC exciters driving the C coupled bridge rectifier. Mr. Wizard rules! Thanks Ron. I had forgotten how much I like that show.
Best regards,
Jim
Ron,
With the motor running I was just fascinated watching the Neon intensity do exactly like you were saying. It phases and one will be bright and the other dimming and then hunting back and forth. Max RPM's when both are blazing and they are hot as Hades. I'm goin to try as Ben suggested to get them both socketed so I can tune and then pull them. I should be able to touch the drivers up from there. Like I said I burned my finger AGIAN! RF burn this time off of the little pencil lead and wire electrode. LOL The wife is definitely going to beat me today. In the name of science we move forward. Beatings and all. LOL
Really nice work!
Best regards,
Jim
Jim,@k4zep
I'm catching heck for being on the computer too much....Other option is to sit and watch TV mindlessly with the "lil woman".
Which brings me to a joke sort of that seems to apply to our situations.....Just change "out with the guys" to "working on the SEC!".......
The question is:
What is the difference between...............................
"Guts Versus Balls"
There is a medical distinction. We've all heard about
people having guts or balls, but do you really know
the difference between them? In an effort to keep
you informed, the definitions are noted below:
GUTS - Is arriving home late after a night out with
the guys, being met by your wife with a broom, and
having the guts to ask: 'Are you still cleaning, or are
you flying somewhere?'
BALLS - Is coming home late after a night out with
the guys, smelling of perfume and beer, lipstick on
your collar, slapping your wife on the butt and
having the balls to say: 'You're next, fatty!'
I hope this clears up any confusion on the definitions.
Medically speaking, there is no difference in the
outcome, since both ultimately result in death.
Moderator, I won't be the least bit muffed if you deleat this!
@Lattice333 and others@Earl
what happens with the party trick if the water is replaced by
a tin can open at the top? The lamp outside metal touches
the metal can. Or any metallic object with the surface area
+ diameter of the round beaker of water?
Earl
@Loki
With a clip lead short the ends of the lamp, you should see little if any change in operation.
Measuring with DVM at tube ends will read a DC voltage.
Great work, oh and a G2 or G3 in your basement lab will run lights all over the house. Down side is a Faraday Cage over the house to keep the FCC away.
Where can I find Carbon Rods?@amigo
I've looked at my local art supply store and they do not seem to have any drafting pencil leads at the size Loki mentions (HB-WWNBX). At best they have short graphite sticks but they seem pretty soft for what I need them for...
Hi Doc,
Thanks, I'll give it a shot anyway with what I can scoop around here. If it doesn't work then not a big deal, I'll try again - that's what experimentation is all about. :)
Otherwise I will definitely keep my eyes peeled here for future developments...
Hi!
You can find those sticks on the web!
Like this:
http://www.plazaart.com/products.php?page=6000
DrStiffler@forest
High frequency field from SEC + carbon rods . Interesting.
I hope you have Geiger counter somewhere .... (joking ::))
Seriously , what do you thing about possible Vallee Synergetic PROTELF reaction inside carbon rod caused by SEC ? I hope it's not very offtopic here
Could this technology be used to kill parasites like mites?
This may have been tried already earlier on this thread, I haven't checked every post.@AbbaRue
But has someone taken the SEC far out into the wilderness away from any power lines.
to see how well it works there?
Just wondering how much of the power it is accumulating comes from 50 or 60 Hz power lines.
Are you looking for a Nano Tec Mite Zapper or NTMZ?Maybe!! Thanks didn't know about that. ;D
Ben
This may have been tried already earlier on this thread, I haven't checked every post.
But has someone taken the SEC far out into the wilderness away from any power lines.
to see how well it works there?
Just wondering how much of the power it is accumulating comes from 50 or 60 Hz power lines.
@AbbaRue
Really, aren't we getting a bit silly again? If you do not have a running Exciter and have not seen the output on a Spectrum Analyzer, then this type of conjecture is just as much garbage as the first people that claimed localized RF from radio stations was doing it all.
Please move your idea's else where if you do not have credible comment.
THIS WAS GOING TO THE PATENT OFFICE, BUT AGAIN.............................. OUR FELLOW HUMANS.
Dr. Stiffler,
I don't know how many people actually understand what you just did nor do I know the details behind this move.............But THANK YOU SIR! Holy crap I did not expect that! At least not in that manner!
Damn them any way Ron!
Best regards,
Jim
Hi Jim,
Have built his Hydrogen generator, works as advertised, will post pictures tomorrow, need to clean up work bench and document just a little bit. Dr. Stiffler is a true gentleman and a scholar!
Ben
Ok, so I'll ask it first, can we see a video showing how many watts in gets however much gas/heat? Sure it was coming but it always pays to be impatient.
Would heating houses in winter be the first likely use for this? I guess it's easier than changing over autos.
Dude.......did you get a SEC exciter running? Speak up for a board or 6 soon. Let me know if you need help getting the circuit running OK?
Just about anything you can imagine doing with fuel but REAL CHEAP! Hang in there buddy, the world is about to change. ;D
Best regards,
Jim
@DrStiffler Let me join the chorus and thank you for the rapid open release of your findings. You are paving they way for many to follow.
Some of you without SEC15-3?s are struggling to replicate SEC effect.
1) Copy the prototype board layout in the previous image I posted in reply#2205 one_wire_in_water7.jpg. This approximates the layout on SEC15-3.
2) Do the party trick in reply# 2200 at least overnight. I believe the generated SEC field takes time to grow.
3) Place fluro next to water filled jar. Connect SEC driver output (leave off AV plug) to fluro. By handling the fluro you should be able to get it to light.
4) As the field increases it gets easier ? start with small fluro?s and work you way up. When mobile and telephone communications are effected ? @DrStiffler, @Loki? Suggestions?
The following photo?s are to encourage those attempting on prototype boards. Please advise if these instructions help. It is difficult to retest these instructions because once the field is established it is slow to leave. Perhaps it lingers in us because we are water/carbon creatures as well.
BTW if you do want a SEC then emailing Stiffler may not be the way to go, by all means email him ASAP but leave a message on here also since he is bouncing email back with or without being read suddenly.
Probably to protect against too much email and he is likely super busy but IF he doesn't read it then...
Of course with this new development he may be working on a larger number than was planned anyway, and I could be wrong but I don't think he made this public domain while stopping the public from getting SEC's so there should be a 3rd gen.
DR Stiffler im one big goose bump after that vid' not even optimum conditions'? 'BURN THE BUSH' This is GREAT stuff Chet@ramset
Being a Licensed Radio Amateur myself (from the 807 Days)
you will know that rectifying any form of RF will provide you with DC.
A small amount of DC will cause electrolysis particular in a conductive solution.
I have a great respect for Dr. Stifflers Circuit if used as intended, and therefore believe that it should not be mistakenly used to do something that can be done with straight DC ,unless the results are staggeringly different.
I am working on Stanly Meyers invention and believe that in principle there may be a correlation ,furthering new ideas.
I am not trying to be Critical of your experiment but it could lead others to be sidetracked.
This is just my Opinion and it is an opinion only.
prof.
Hi Professor,
You remember 807's? Shack warmers! Yes, I remember them well.....Go to YouTube and watch the last video I just put up. The voltage drop across those 4 diodes MAX would be about 2.7/2.8 VDC in a low current rectifier mode. Observer and marvel.......Glad to have a good Ham with an opinion aboard. Dr. Stiffler's devices are real and explore the far reaches of wideband pulse RF. Stanley Meyers theories are a great place also to mess around with pulse hydrogen generation!
See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NULf5fugi5M
Ben K4ZEP
Hi,
First of all great congratulations Dr Stiffler, Lattice333 and others for this fantastic discoveries.
Pictures with all this fluo lighting are full of hope !!
Of course I want to jump in the experimentation, but am not expert. The circuit is surprisingly simple, the SEC15, and it has only two problems for me. On Lattice333 pictures I can see the coil and the kind of copper pipe, that I suppose is used as heat sink for the transistor ... but I'm not sure :(
Could anyidy give the specs of the small coil that is vertical with a white plastic tube as air core?
Aether22 gav a list of the parts and numbers from JameCo, but te coil and copper pipe are not referenced.
Again I'm very surprised, and after 5 years following the free-energy quest, I can say 'Waow that's it, Dr Stiffler found it, the simplest way to harness the space energy' ... first we have light !!! and ten I hope we can run an electric heater, that will heat houses and also be able to cook the daily food for zero pesos :)
For me electrolysis is not the best way, also it is a fire hazard ... all electric should be better :) :) quiet and non explosive !
Again a thousand of thanks and congratulations Dr Stiffler !!! You are writting the future !
MDG
http://radiant.100free.com
As an 'et al', I'd view that the device whatever the biological effects could be made not only safe but biologically beneficial.
However that would require some attention and effort so there is likely a lowish level risk at the moment, made greater by doing random experiments admittedly.
That is really going on a blind faith that the risks are low without real substantial data. We really need to know for sure instead of hoping for the best... :)
Dear Dr. StifflerProfessor, 2 things.
I am sorry you have taken offense to my opinion I am 66Years of age I have started Ham Radio in the 50's in another country and relicensed here in Canada. I worked in Electronics all my life troubleshooting and having worked for CGE Sylvania and many others I am maybe not as smart as you appear to be, but I am no Dummy.
I noticed that you had similar emotional outbursts with other members,its a shame that Mankind can not understand each other.
I praised you and your Circuit for what it is .What more do you want.Total obedience? If we can not share our thoughts and experiences what is the sense being here? God may smile upon you.
Others have taken my comment as it was meant. I was not badmouthing anyone and I am disturbed about the Fact that I have to go on a defensive.Where is your professionalism?I also live in the Pacific Northwest.
K4zep nice you took no offence as you surely understood what I had meant having worked with RF yourself.
I will look at your other Video that I promise.
There is no need to delete as I will be the wiser one I will stay in another section of this Forum Dr. Stiffler you can have it all
By the way Dr Stiffler what is your Call Sign?
Professor
I have one problem with building this device:
From a common electronics point of view what we have here is a simple inverter circuit.
Winding 9 turns around an AM antenna that has say 99 turns will step up the voltage 11x.
I have played with many step up transformers, and got them to light up fluor. lamps.
I did that kind of stuff back in the 1970's, using an ignition coil and a 6 volt transformer.
I used to dazzle my friends by being able to hold the tube in my hand and have it light up.
That was right after the first star wars came out at the movies.
Anyway my problem is, how can I know that I have the Dr. Stiffler effect and not the simple step up
transformer effect I've been playing with for over 30 years?
The Dr. stated that the core material is very important, and I have no way of knowing if I have the right core.
I can be sure of every other aspect of this circuit but this one all important point.
There must be something I can check for to know for sure I have the circuit working HIS way.
The one I have built right now shows an almost perfect sine wave on the oscilloscope.
And my frequency counter is measureing about 5.8 MHz.
That is really going on a blind faith that the risks are low without real substantial data. We really need to know for sure instead of hoping for the best... :)
Gentlemen,
The spectrum of the exciter as viewed on a spectrum analyzer is telltale. Dr Stiffler stated over and over that trying to hang your tried and true test equipment on this circuit will prove to be your downfall. Even DMM's read incorrectly, and they do! Our conventional equipment is not designed to operate very well with 400MHz plus of slamming harmonics let alone possibly cohered energy from the lattice. IS THAT TOUGH TO ACCEPT? HELL YES IT IS! DO YOU NEED TO ACCEPT IT? YES YOU DO! Assuming you want to reproduce Dr. Stiffler's work. You cannot just toss in impedances and earth grounding where you are conventionally used to doing that and just write it off because YOU KNOW how to do that! I don't give a shit what degree's you hold, how long you have been a radio head or otherwise. I've been in the game for a long time myself and I am a professional test developer. So what! I'm a newbee to SEC! I suggest AGAIN, that you gentlemen study this HUGE thread in DETAIL. The answers to these questions are here and you can find them but I'm going on to the making of bubbles that burn so please START STUDYING AGAIN! COLLEGE GENERATES A BUNCH OF STUBBORN HARD HEADED ARROGANT PEOPLE. How will you ever learn a new way? Enough from LOKI! Look at the picture below. SEC lighting up the EM SPECTRUM!
Best regards,
Jim
@All,
As an example of what I'm talking about, arrogance, hard headed, conventionally trained, I'm just as guilty in many respects, those of you that have been following this for the duration know I'm supposed to be getting some heat measurements RIGHT? I still can't quite get the SENSORS and DAQ measurements quiet enough to call the data anything but noise and I do it for a living. I am going to order friggin thermometers and put up with being beat and screamed at for 10 to 12 hours to get the calorimetry data too. This will take the rest of my life probably! So........there........ :P
Best regards,
Jim
This is HOW you KNOW! Everything else is YOU ENGINEERING your own devices and saying they are Dr. Stiffler's. Have a little humility for God's sake and try to learn.
Jim
something I saw is driving me nuts and I have to prove what I see is real,
Sounds interesting! Sounds typical of this kind of thing.
Dear Dr. Stiffler@professor
I am sorry you have taken offense to my opinion I am 66Years of age I have started Ham Radio in the 50's in another country and relicensed here in Canada. I worked in Electronics all my life troubleshooting and having worked for CGE Sylvania and many others I am maybe not as smart as you appear to be, but I am no Dummy.
I noticed that you had similar emotional outbursts with other members,its a shame that Mankind can not understand each other.
I praised you and your Circuit for what it is .What more do you want.Total obedience? If we can not share our thoughts and experiences what is the sense being here? God may smile upon you.
Others have taken my comment as it was meant. I was not badmouthing anyone and I am disturbed about the Fact that I have to go on a defensive.Where is your professionalism?I also live in the Pacific Northwest.
K4zep nice you took no offence as you surely understood what I had meant having worked with RF yourself.
I will look at your other Video that I promise.
There is no need to delete as I will be the wiser one I will stay in another section of this Forum Dr. Stiffler you can have it all
By the way Dr Stiffler what is your Call Sign?
Professor
@Hi Fellows@IsaSIO
I'm brand spanken new here thanks to a good friend that turned me on to some strange videos from I believe Dr Stiffler. I been working with big HHO cells for a year now and was blown away by not needen power to the electrodes. I have me a big battery farm and pump big amps in my cells. So from a new person does this really work I'm asking if you can make HHO with no batteries??
@ALL
Here is what you all want to see and it is indeed REAL. You have the tools now jump down and start running with them. Be creative and work fast, very fast.
If you want me back on this thread I would expect that you all will police it for me. I'm sick of the crap and I have tried so if you ever want anymore, help me on this, Ok?
Can Water Be Burned #3
* being processed by YouTube now; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aanRgpfv144
This likewise thinking is exactly what go me into trouble.didn't you have an intricate plan about you NOT posting in here anymore, something about the "wiser one"?
I am glad that I am not alone in my thinking and it is a shame that at this time I have nothing to offer, or the shoe would be on the other foot. I have no military Background and I am not a Yes Sir No Sir Man.
I do have the intelligence though to ask Questions of things that I do not understand.
I have a teaching certificate and one of the first rules is to tell your Student "I don't know,but I will find out for you"'.
But unless you know and reveal the facts without theorizing, anyone can claim anything on this forum without scientific proof.
I for instance could claim to be a Professor . Sorry this I am not, but I do have the Experience and prob. saw and repaired more standard electronic Equipment on a daily basis all of my life than most of you here. I also know that attack is a subhuman form of defense,but it seems to work.
Give us the details as if you were to patent the circuit . I agree with the above that you can excite any plasma with an RF Field as most us know.
Now what Kanzius did is really unique but impractical for splitting water as you require too much power.
To produce Hydrogen only is the product of the catalyst not the circuit.
My respect goes out to many Inventors that have revealed the scientific principle of their invention.
If Ronald R Stiffler does not intend to patent his circuit and promised to give it to the world then by all means there is no reason in the world why he can not tell us why it works the way he claims it does.
Professor
WILBY nicely put
BEN nice observation Oxy off to the side
Chet
What I do is come up with correlations, and while it's just a curiosity at this moment I may have found one.@aether22 @All
Stiffler told me something and said 'private' so I checked with him first and it appears that he's given me the Ok but the reply was defiantly short and non expressive so I hope I'm not going beyond what he meant or wished, anyhow when my SEC attempt failed Stiffler informed me that "base circuit causes bifurcation", he said some other stuff but let's just stick to that. (I will note that he did mention not all transistors work, though I think he has likely mentioned that before?)
Ben mentioned something weird in the Bifurcated electrolysis circuit.
Then there is the optical coherence circuit Stiffler made which again used Bifurcation.
And of course the AV plug.
And JLN's AFEP, Tesla coils, Autoignotion coils and various others, parallel bucking bifilar and caduceus coils?
I 'untangled' Hendershots circuit recently and it seems to fit very well.
Ed Gray's 'Splitting the positive'?
So is there something that happens in such circuits?
Could it be separation of 2 different current types?
Or slamming of different currents into each other which excites the aether/lattice? (of course that does not fit the term)
Or currents flowing 2 directions in the same wire?
Does current loop around in the 2 branches (as in an AV plug)?
Is there induction between the branches? (I'd guess not in all cases)
There could be multiple effects and plenty of reasons both conventional and unconventional for such a circuit topology, and you don't give it the right conditions it won't work, assuming the correlation is valid which it could easily not be given the lack of data.
This is due to it's simplicity and commonality not going to be a very easy correlation to prove by growing it by further data mining.
But if you are like me you look for 'keys' for 'secrets' that engage the unconventional component in all of this technology then this might be something to try out, a design feature to add.
Of course Stiffler could give his opinion about this as it is almost exclusively his circuits I'm correlating , is this Bifurcation a key tool for tapping/disrupting the lattice? (If he doesn't know what I'm talking about you can pretty much rule this correlation out, but so far it seems to be a favorite circuit design and observation of his)
BEN we know its 95 99% efficient the sec he has looks bigger than mine [coil] Chet PS 'calculations based upon evolved gas using a factor 2.7 watts per liter' 1.4 volts per anode times 2 2.8volts@ramset
Aether each sec with 2 carbons adds 37% to the cell each sec uses 2.7 watts power is linear production is not [I tkink]
My demo uses 100% saturation and the power is 12.655V@86.35mA so we have a bit of a difference. My flame is very calm, I sure wish someone would send me a Sterling Engine. ;D
Jim SWEET Gonna be warm in the lab this winter on demand heat A bit of GENIOUS there also [design] Chet
JIM I know the 8500fps of HHO doesn't apply here BUT having that container and tube filled with GAS is not like wicking at the sourse you have a manifold filled with gas maybe NO concern or maybe not ?
Hey, I made an error about the third video, it seems to be an hoax ... but I found another video that demonstrates the hoax, AND in this latest video the guy shows electrolysis gas burning, AND the flame is the exact same bright yellow color as in SEC experiment :) :) so I encourage you to have a look.@stephenafreter @All
Amazing! WATER CAN BURN! Use Water As Fuel!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs13jBWqFjA
sorry for the mistake, I'm so excited since 4 days I discovered the SEC thread ... just can't sleep well since, SEC technology is just flashing in my head all night, and it never happened before. It must be our chance to get cheap and clean power, the answer of the quest !
Thanks Mr Stiffler !
MDG
I just finished my copy of Dr Stifflers SEC using a 2n3553 Rf transistor but there seems to be no difference to the output.@pomodoro
Shorting the neon caused the current to jump from 30ma to 70ma.I was hoping that the AV plug might power the neon with 'free power' using some new unknown mechanism. The next step will be to add more and more AV plugs and watch the effect on current to the oscillator. If more plugs make the oscillator draw more current is there any hope for OU?
Fellows has no one seem the circuit yet, guess what, this is a reverse AV Plug with the earth as the source.
I have discovered that if I saturate the SEC15-1 output inductor (inductor just before AV plug) just right using a handheld neo magnet (1/4 inch x 1inch) then I can get very strong SEC output, I think it encourages the higher frequencies? Its best to watch a neon while you do it to find the sweet spot, only recommended with a heatsink on your SEC transistor. I think this might be helpful for all those going for fire.
@All
A couple of problems are floating to the surface with replications.
1) Connection of Cu (copper) wire to the carbon rods within the electrolyte is a big problem. One replicator had a cell running for 13 hours and the flame went out. It could be re-lighted but would go back out after about a second. The input to the Exciter was consistent of when it was burning. The cell was disassembled ant it was found that the epoxy around the connection was not 100% and the wire dissolved.
2) Replicator left the connection end out of the electrolyte, but used a SS screw and a Cu tab to connect the Cu wire to the rod. It appears that there was some catalytic action because the Cu tab and wire to dissolve.
I have had similar problems. We need a good way to make the connections so that the metal reactions with each other and the electrolyte will not destroy the connection. I think the first design by Loki may be a possible answer, all connections fully external of the cell. This problem is out of my area of expertise, we need input by those in other areas.
I am now going for a design like Loki and use Cu clips on the external rod connection. The only thing is we need to seal the rod entry for at least 2 atm.
Open for ideas from the group.
@yucca
I mentioned this to the Dr a couple of months ago. I found the sweet spot to be between the chokes or right at the edge of the 10uH. Take a small neo and put a 1" or so steel wood screw on it to focus the flux, then use the tip of the screw, it works much better since the spot is so small. Actually touching the screw tip to the choke body makes things go crazy (right where you can see the coil at the end of the body), and turn it at a 45 degree angle to the longitudinal line of the choke for even more. There is also a spot exactly between the chokes about 4mm or so above the board surface.
A neo placed on the face of the .01uF cap also causes some improvement. But BE CAREFUL, I've smoked the transistor several times (even with a heat sink), and burn out my gear, there seems to be a surge taking place. It also leads to extreme headaches. The last time I did this, about an hour afterward lighting hit the tree in the front yard, just so you've been warned.
-Duane
I've only recently discovered this thread, and have become both intensely intrigued and overwhelmingly frustrated. I'm appealing to "old hands" for help in the form of one or more of the following:
1) An index to key posts, schematics, etc.
2) Any mirror site(s) for www.stifflerscientific.com? It has been inaccessible since I found this thread
3) Any file archive for any and all files (any significant links I've found in the thread seem to be "down.")
4) Information as to how to purchase plans/kits/blank PCBs for SEC 15-3 and/or SEC 5-20 or any other variants?
Thanks in advance for any and all help... I'm struggling to make a living and just don't have all the time needed to chase all this stuff down alone... :)
FYI, archive.org is one of the first places I looked... however, the only thing that showed is the "top level" page? Links did not seem to work.
I've only recently discovered this thread, and have become both intensely intrigued and overwhelmingly frustrated. I'm appealing to "old hands" for help in the form of one or more of the following:
2) Any mirror site(s) for www.stifflerscientific.com? It has been inaccessible since I found this thread
3) Any file archive for any and all files (any significant links I've found in the thread seem to be "down.")
I've only recently discovered this thread, and have become both intensely intrigued and overwhelmingly frustrated. I'm appealing to "old hands" for help in the form of one or more of the following:@creator
1) An index to key posts, schematics, etc.
2) Any mirror site(s) for www.stifflerscientific.com? It has been inaccessible since I found this thread
3) Any file archive for any and all files (any significant links I've found in the thread seem to be "down.")
4) Information as to how to purchase plans/kits/blank PCBs for SEC 15-3 and/or SEC 5-20 or any other variants?
Thanks in advance for any and all help... I'm struggling to make a living and just don't have all the time needed to chase all this stuff down alone... :)
@creator@DrStiffler
Forgive me for my lack of faith in humanity, but your questions seem more in line with 'Discovery' than grass roots scientific interest.
Lets hope no one is making boards which are in any way a copy of mine..............
'Old Hands', interesting wording, why not read the thread, that's how every one else has done it. Newbie, first post, late in the game but makes a list of the entire overview.
Well if you entered the thread wrong, you by mistake raised Red Flags for sure.
@DrStiffler
Hello Doc,
First, sure I'll forgive your lack of faith in humanity.
I'm a little confused.
The circuit diagrams in this thread are very simple looking layouts.
The parts are readily available, and all this has been given to us all.
So why are some people having trouble replicating the unit?
Also wanted to clear something up, when the doc stated this:
"Lets hope no one is making boards which are in any way a copy of mine.............."
I understand he means making an exact copy of his printed circuit boards.
And he doesn't mean building a unit from the schematics he gave us.
Am I understanding it right?
As for the new 22uH choke, I guess it's a case of collecting energy from, or giving disturbance to the aether, perhaps Stiffler is skeptically playing with my observation that flux impressed on aether seems to become, well to borrow a popular term 'radiant'?
Dear All,
As far as I see the SEC phenomenon - there is no proof so far that
the phenomena relate to _non_ maxwellian activity.
In that context - I would line up the SEC phenomena with Keely devices - where
the "locked" frequency compounds have interesting features. (but in that case
electrical - not mechanical)
In traditional "EE" you try to avoid those effects (like hell).
This is the reason why a proper build up prototype would never work.
(built to avoid the effects)
That is only because you are either ignorant of all of it's effects or your analysis is unbalanced, no one here has any interest in 'debunking' the circuit as you seem to have interest in.
Peace !No, it doesn't, I assumed you were trying to attack it.
If I believe in all the effects, outcome, whatever - replication -,
does it harm anyone if I try to discuss the origin of the effect -
or is this just holy grail/radiant/whatever dogma.Most assuredly not.
As far as I follow this thread its not clear if the "magic" happensThe SEC both creates a condition and to at least some extent has feedback with it I believe.
because of the SEC _OR_ the interaction with SEC or both.
It would be interesting what you think about my posting - thatsI guess it depends on how far these complexities can be stretched, also is the energy out being in excess of what is deliberately put in not an indication of exceeding explanation under normal principles?
why I did it.
The fact that the calculation of the near field interaction is very
complex - its not proven that the stuff doesn?t follow very normal
principles.
Why should the stuff you see (spatial matrix or whatever) not complyThe 'whatever' manipulates these fields and the results are not what would be expected even though there is still some resemblance to convention.
with kind of standing wave/bubble interference of a near rf field.
Because its too complicated ?
The outcome of my mail was that _I_ thinkI am very happy to share what I know and think, and I would not state that I 'think' the field effects of a SEC exceed conventional expectation in some way, rather I have no doubt whatsoever that in at least some ways to do.
====
(this does not mean Im right
or I sell the truth or everything else is stupid -this means that im interested in
what you think)
that the special properties of the SEC field/current (not the SEC field itself)All 3 to an extent, of course magic is a bad term since it suggests lack of connection between things (to me anyway).
Hi Doc@IsaSIO
hey man look the guy up and send a couple of them texas cowboys to have a talk with him. they can plant a couple boots in the right place. ;D
@Dr Stiffler - sorry to be pedantic but shouldn't you rate your cell output in kilovar's rather than kilowatts? Its just if you use the term kilowatts you lead people to immediately assume over unity in relation to the input wattage when your actually drawing reactive power (which is totally awesome to be able to produce super high efficient electrolysis with!!!!).@scraven
@Dr Stiffler - sorry to be pedantic but shouldn't you rate your cell output in kilovar's rather than kilowatts? Its just if you use the term kilowatts you lead people to immediately assume over unity in relation to the input wattage when your actually drawing reactive power (which is totally awesome to be able to produce super high efficient electrolysis with!!!!).
@aether22,Hi creator
It is almost no doubt not yet running "correctly," but I'm a "learn by doing" kind of guy. I'm still working my way through this vast thread and will be applying what I learn (reading) to what I learn (doing.)
For example, I now know that I need to couple my scope via a "sniffer" coil, and that I need to get a 100x probe (now using a 10x.) Also, I'm not yet getting all the effects reported by, for example, Lattice333. So much to learn, so little time! :) Thank you kindly for the message cross-references, I need to learn about bifurcating oscillators and negative resistance oscillators! :) I hope to also try other coil configurations since they're very easy to swap in and out.
@Kator01,
I am using the MPSA06, JameCo PN#26462.
The air-core coil is 40 turns of #26 enameled wire wound around a 7/32" screw thread and then removed; however, I didn't get any "results" until I slipped it inside of a 1-1/16" long x 11/16" diameter ferrite core.
The frequency observations are "all over the map" because the coil changed and the entire setup, including scope tap location changed. I now also know that I can't legitimately couple the scope the way I did.
I have not yet been able to measure power in, working on that.
Thank you kindly for the warning about 2N3553 toxicity, I will avoid that. :)
Now I'll add one more pretty picture, then I'll shut up until I have something more constructive to say. :)
@hartiberlin
I will send PM, but if you read this first; Please create 'locked' topic "Stiffler Ultra Efficient Electrolysis"
I will NO longer participate in an interactive thread. It takes far to much time to clean the garbage posted.
Thank you
To light or power a device from a single wire is conventional electricity. Every conductor is capacitively coupled to the environment, mainly the earth or the ground (for example the capacity of a spherical conductor in space is C=2*pi*epsilon0*R). The neon tube presents also such a capacity to the ground that permits to loop a circuit.
As these capacities are very low (order of pF or less), this explains why high voltages and low currents are preferable to get a significant power.
Of course, even if there is only a single wire, current is consumed because the circuit is looped through the capacity. This is easily verifiable by connecting an ammeter in the circuit of the primary of the transformer powering the neon tube, as in the setup from JL Naudin:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm
The current flows through the secondary of the HV transformer to the neon tube then to the ground of the setup via the capacitive coupling of the neon to its surrounding and finally back to the secondary of the transformer via the capacity between primary and secondary circuits.
I made myself the measurements after replacing the neon tube by resistive charges R. I checked that the consumed current is inversely proportional to R, in accordance to the ohm law.
I also noted that a voltmeter connected to C3 let the voltage to change due to the added capacity provided by the voltmeter.
All this stuff can be easily modelized by conventional software like LT-spice: you have just to add the hidden parasitic capacities that naturally exist between all conductor parts of the setup.
Thus, no OU in single wire circuits.
Hello!@creator
@Dr. Stiffler, I sent you a PM and hope to hear from you soon! :)
@All,
I have continued to "tinker" with some variants of the SEC exciter circuit, with some success.
I built a version on a Radio Shack breadboard and got that working.
This morning I built a "MicroSEC" on a piece of blank PCB, and I'll post a photo here. I've also uploaded many more photos and some "how-to" information here: http://creatorguy.com/ especially for anyone out there who may be trying to build a SEC for experimentation but may have had some difficulty getting one going.
Your (reasonable) comments and questions are most welcome, but please do read the information at my "how-to" site.
@creatorThanks Doc,
I have not received mail from you, best yo send to the lab stifflerscientific(at)embarqmail(dot)com.
Dr.S.
*Removed*
Dr.S.
@All,@creator
I woke up this morning with an idea for an experiment burning in my brain:
Using some aluminum foil and a child's ball, I made a crude "Hiddink Sphere" single-pole capacitor and hooked it up to my MicroSEC to see if it would take off and float in the air....
Well, no joy yet, but I hope when I have time to try it on a balance beam. :)
You can see another photo and read a bit more about it here if you are interested: http://creatorguy.com
@Dr. S,
I sent two more emails to your lab; one bounced, the other not yet - I hope it got through! :)
@creatorHi Doc,
Well I received one mail and responded, did you not receive the circuit I sent you?
It is a problem with embarqmail they are JUNK, once they took over Sprint and I lost Earthlink its like the weather, you never know what is going to happen. Please let me know if you did not receive the reply.
Maybe its still in fed clearing house........... ;-(
Dr.S.
Ben thanks wish I could hear it, Audio seems to be out any one else have this prob ?All
Chet PS love the bubbles and current
Also if you don't mind a 'still' of the schem [to fuzzy when I pause the vid
Ben thanks wish I could hear it, Audio seems to be out any one else have this prob ?
Chet PS love the bubbles and current
Also if you don't mind a 'still' of the schem [to fuzzy when I pause the vid
All
the sound is clear for me on both vids. so Ben is this like the docs video of the three electrode cell? looks like you both are getting the same or close amount of gas? i tried stainless rods and a 2 farad car amp capacitor but did not get many bubbles. so you need carbon rods?
how do you charge those caps up so fast?
Just an update, I have replicated the fluro tubes lighting and the incandescent bulbs lighting, a tad late to post 'me too' photos.
Ben I don't know what your making but your making a lot of it I remember Doc saying take a cotton ball soak it and burn it[I believe he was reffering to the water after the one wire electro experiment} have you tried soaking up the foam and burning [or the water]? thanks for the vid and schem and the info on the docs site [I thought it was closed] Chet
PS in the docs one wire cell I think he felt mostly hydrogen was coming out and the water [pure distilled] was oxygen saturated
I wonder if the reverse is possible? Luc might find that interesting
BEN @all I know that this sec has much potential. I also know that it will make hydrogen. Currently to make 1 kg of hydrogen using existing tech it takes 80kwh and 2 litres of water The docs sec cell makes this look silly This is what I will be /am doing' HHO' Chet PS I know there are losses in the production of HHO this just shows how amazing the docs sec really isHi @Chet,
BEN @all I know that this sec has much potential. I also know that it will make hydrogen. Currently to make 1 kg of hydrogen using existing tech it takes 80kwh and 2 litres of water The docs sec cell makes this look silly This is what I will be /am doing' HHO' Chet PS I know there are losses in the production of HHO this just shows how amazing the docs sec really is
Hello Group
Did Doc hang his on different site? Was hoping to pick up a couple boards form Doc, but it seems that all the links are dead.
Have read the thread and found it very intriguing. Actually have started working the basic CKT with some success, would really like to
pickup a couple completed boards from doc.
Any help with this would awesome ;D
Thanks and Cheers
Bill
Hi All,
Last I heard from Dr. Stiffler was day before hurricane Ike hit the Houston, TX area. He was taking his computers down, packing, etc and getting ready for it to hit. Have not heard from him since. Be patent, Galviston and Houston Tx were VERY hard hit with Ike and it is a mess down there......I suspect he has a lot more on his mind right now than the SEC and OU!
Ben
I have opened the latest research page on my web site for public access. It is about 6-8 weeks behind in the posted work, but enough to get many excited (I hope).Thank you, Doc, for your outstanding generosity! I suspect I speak for many when I say that your kindness in opening this up for us will not be forgotten! :)
Dr Stiffler,@Lattice333
great to see you are back online. I figured the hurricane got too close when your web site disappeared. Thanks for opening up the new section - lots of exciting ideas to check out there.
Can I ask a question about the safety of LED's? Your web site has the following warning "DO NOT *EVER* LOOK AT THE SUPER WHITE LEDs OR THE NEONS CONNECTED AS LOADS WITHOUT OSHA APPROVED UV PROTECTION. A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF X-RAY CAN ALSO BE PRESENT AND PRESENTS AN EXTREME HAZARD."
Does this apply to LED's generally or only when they are powered by a SEC circuit? The reason I ask is that LED's appear to be the most efficient light source available (2-3watts producing the same light as say a 50watt incandesant bulb). Around the home it is tempting to take out the compact fluro's and replace them with LED compatible replacements. Your comments make me wonder if this is safe.
If you were to light your house with SEC circuit(s) and annoy those greedy power utilities would you opt for fluro's or LED's?
How is the SEC research coming along? Anything new?
@ALL
I am now able to "PROVE" that a SEC Exciter is a "Negative Resistance" in operation.
The results or how it is done is not posted here, see my website drstiffler (dot) com.
Dr.S.
On your website, you mention an article about an UWO created with a neg. resistor,@fritz
a certain length coaxial and a diode.
At least from the abstract - I wouldn´t derive the reverse situation that an UWO phenomenon
with a diode involved indicates a negative resistance....
What I see is an oscillator with a complex, non-linear feedback which includes somehow
a delay (intrinsic diode charge) and a near field EM coupling as outer fb loop.
Maybe this "feels" like a (differential) negative resistor - otherwise - there are no "single" pieces in
that circuit - everything is parasitary coupled.
The "negative resistor" mentioned in the article is per se no OU device (just to clarify).
It´s even possible to call every active part of an oscillator a negative resistor .....
In the normal run you use it just for oscillators driven by Gun or IMPATT diodes -
which have indeed a (differential) negative resistance of operated (powered) at certain
dc operating point. (Think thats what they use in this article)
Maybe I didn´t get the point....
rgds.
Hi!
@professor
How can I get one of those SEC exciters you use to perform the experiments on your site?
Jesus
Hi Jesus,
Sorry I do not sell anything , unlike Stiffler ,I experiment using off shelf and old stock Parts.
However I do not believe in all the claims,neither is there an explanation of its fame.
It also is not as claimed selfrunning so what is the Point?
If you are into selling Boards ...............!
So if you are one of the believers in Stifflers magic Boards and you want to pay good money, you need to go to his
Website which you will find a few posts back.
professor
This thread is self running :P
@ALL
I see in reading in this thread that someone thinks that reactive power is the answer and that the SEC Theory is incorrect, please explain how you envision this with my Exciters???
Dr.S.
I see in reading in this thread that someone thinks that reactive power is the answer and that the SEC Theory is incorrect, please explain how you envision this with my Exciters???
I have not returned here to play the game again, any qualified individual, here is something to work from that will be sufficient to prove the point.
Be fully aware that ESEC version #4 units are performing at 4x to 6x.
Dr.S.
keep your alans on! Reactance can not account for excess power!! Its should only be viewed as a POSSIBLE stimulus, is all I was saying in earlier posts!
sorry, reactive power. Now we are getting enraged and confused. Yes, the problem enrages and confuses me.... but it shouldn't because reactive power is free.. but I guess that's what makes me enraged and confused... Sorry... I'm off to sob all over the EE books my university charges me so much for >:(
Well lets relate this to a broadband oscillator. No load, and you have reactive power (with a certain amount of real power consumed...real life and all). Add an antenna and power starts getting pumped out and you should see this as a current draw at the source. Now add an AV plug to the antenna and suddenly the oscillator goes back to reactive power mode yet somehow the cap in the AV plug gets charged up, WITHOUT A CURRENT DRAW AT THE SOURCE.@scraven
This needs to be tested with a battery as the source in a REMOTE location. Then bring on the outlandish explanations.
What happened to the fact that I have indeed run without effect exciters in Faraday Cages, but LOL none of the detractors could agree on if the cage was required to be grounded or not grounded. In fact I left one posting group that has a moderator that stated; "Stiffler is incompetent to make valid RF measurements, because I am", gee now if that isn't an admission none is.
Ok, lets lay it down precisly:
Reactive power [VAr] in theory is "for free". In practice there is always current and real world
resistance involved - so reactive power never comes "alone". In real world you use power
plants and facilities to maintain/compensate reactive power in the grid to keep losses at minimum.
So the statement "for free" depends on the reference frame.
For example:
Imagine a room sized capacitor (we ignore now the wavelength and EM) connected to mains.
This cap would draw a dominant reactive power (we assume lossless cap here).
If I enter the room - and place a conductive/resistive table in the middle - we have a lossy cap,
the table "connects" places of different field strength/potential, there is current in the table construction, losses.
The capacity of the room-cap will be reduced, reactive power will decrease, real power consumption will increase.
What I meant in the sense of using the terminus "reactive power" is to change a local impedance
scenario with dominating reactive power in a way which gives the possibility to harvest real power.
Just if you have e/m/em fields in ideal configurations, just driven by reactive power - you can harvest
real power by introducing losses in that field.
This losses contribute to the real power component of the entire system.
In real world - those losses happen almost everwhere - by "matching" the local impedance you just make
your matching part the dominant "consumer".
Hope this helps with the confusion.
@Dean
Power in an LC system like the one in the broadband oscillator is a phasor summing on the power measured at L and the power measured at C. If there is no load then the C(cap) will be out of phase with the L(inductor) and hence they cancel each other out. What you get now in measurable terms (the spectrum analysis) is a near field signal, but seeing as the power is reactive and the current is more or less canceled out the circuit only radiates in the near field (electrostatic field or electric field but NOT a magnetic field). Add an antenna with a load and depending on how much current the load consumes thats how much power the circuit will radiate (and thats the reason NASA probably wouldn't let a SEC anywhere near any kind of aircraft let alone a spacecraft for testing in space *looks at fritz and shrugs). Anyway... the point of the bafflements thus far is that this near field signal seems to drop off as the AV plug is charging a cap. So that would mean that the AV plug somehow converts POTENTIAL oscillations minus Current oscillations. In other words we are getting REAL power in the AV plug, when the only power consumed seems to be IMAGINARY POWER. Sooo if the AV plug ONLY needs to rectify voltage oscillations (or at least that's all that's being supplied to it by the SEC) yet produces a current as well in the rectification, a lot of us a concerned about where that current is coming from! Dont forget, an av plug can rectify magnetic waves as well (like a radio does) and this poses a problem for accurate measurements, because if it turns out the the AV plug IS rectifying magnetic waves as well then the power consumed is REAL. This (right now) does not seem to be the case and is why Dr.Stiffler is probably pretty exited himself right now, mostly due to the fact (i'd guess) that the near field spectrum signals seem to vanish while the AV plug is charging the cap. Combine this with the fact that the the oscillator STILL consumes very little amps, then we would be led to assume that the AV plug is consuming purely imaginary power... NOT ONLY THIS... at some point in time the power in the AV CAP surpasses any power consumed by the oscillator that is being lost to imperfect (real world) components. And this is where the mystery begins..
Apologies in advance for jibberjabber minus practical results... I will shut up now
***correction - not sure if the nearfield drops off at all (I'm not sure where I got that from) Either way this would point more in the direction of excitation by reactive broadband oscillations rather then the indigestible idea of imaginary power converted to real power. Excitation of what exactly? The aether or the lattice does not mean anything to me - but thats my problem...
Not unlike a tuned LC tank ?
I have a simple question...
When we use too m
uch hot/common electricity, the device (a fan in example) heats up too much and it burns. If we use cold electricity... the fan will burn also or not?
A new video of the new software that controls the measurement protocols.
The video shows an ESEC(1) going OU well past the margin of error. Test stopped at 180%.
ESEC(1)'s go to 200% without problem.
Dr.S.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd4h6oVtGj4
ESEC Naming:
ESEC(1) OU>1<3
ESEC(2) => ESEC(3) OU>2<4
ESEC(6) OU =>6
ESEC(10) OU > 10
I have some recent experience with these large "supercapacitors". You can not assume that the capacitance is constant under dynamic conditions. The capacitors must be characterized to determine their real performance under the conditions you are using. When you do this you see that a simple model approximation is that of two capacitors -- one with a fast response and one with a very long response time. In the time frame of the measurements shown the real capacitance will be considerably lower than the claimed 3 F.
I have observed leakage current of 1ma @16V in very similar capacitors. If you take this into account and let the capacitor stand for 15 min or so after it has been disconnected from the experiment you can get a far more accurate estimate of the power accumulated.
@All
I do not dispute the accurate description of what can happen with supercaps, but I will say that the charge when properly applied by an ESEC will remain on the test caps for over 24hrs with only a minimal 0.5 to 1 volt drop, which still reflects a CEC far in excess of 1. If I had a cap with 1ma leakage I would be looking for my money back!.
To stop this before it goes to far, the charge on the caps are dumped (cycle discharged) into an electronic load (monitored via computer) and what is presented is accurate.
@Stephan
Be careful of what you wish.........
@all :
Second question is this : I have two digi-meters and each measures a different hfe-value. e.g. one shows hfe 100 the other hfe 120 for the same transistor.
Is there a standard-method of this hfe-measurement ? I do not trust these meters after this experience.
best Regards
Kator01
@drstiffler
I have not learnt the radio frequencies yet. But I would appreciate very much that you joined us at the joule thief thread. You are also invited to Feedback to the source thread.
Do not leave us. You are a very important person to us.
Jesus
@Watchers
The good doctor now has a fully automated measurement station. After 'Ike' we were able to help in building back his research lab. What we were able to do with his programming expertise was to get him a fully automated bench in our lab that has all computer controlled equipment. Now with the click of a mouse he is able to work with his SEC Theory on a real time basis. This was all required as age is taking its toll and we must insure that SEC is fully realized.
Simon.
@ Simon#derricka
Do you know if Dr Stiffler will be posting new findings here, or anywhere other than his own website?
Age ?#amigo
Doc can't be that old, at least from his voice it does not sound that old?
I hope he doesn't croak on us...there's still work to be done. :D
Can I ask, is mr. Stiffler really a "doctor"? Is electrotrechnics his hobby, or profession?
Why he doesn't try to charm and convince his "academic colleagues"? Why he is seeking for approval in the "fringe science" sites?? Why, oh, why... Is he just a charlatan?
You tell me..
Looking forward to see his 2 cap unit running ! :)
@Spinner. Anyone who's been around the FE scene long enough knows that there is hell to pay when one steps outside the politically correct, socially engineered groupspeak, mindthink and paradigms that serve those whose interests benefit from limiting access to free, abundant energy. Character assassination, vilification and ostracization from the scientific establishment are usually part of this "hell to pay."
The doc has played his cards well, I believe. He has judiciously shared the fruits of his careful professional investigations.
B
I have completed a series of rigorous capacitor -to- capacitor tests of this style of circuit and a number of significantly improved versions. These tests were done using electrolytic capacitors and not electrochemical capacitors. The capacitors I used were well characterized under the experimental conditions used and shown to be working as pure capacitances within a close tolerance. In all cases the energy yield is less than unity. This is despite the NLO oscillator and improved variations running in what Stiffler would call "Ultra Wide Band" mode.Gee Mark I know Lattice333 is so happy his brother? is getting into the act, but as always there are those that think they are the people with the "RIGHT ANSWER". Gee Mark you think I am dumb enought to not know what I'm working with, maybe you best think again.
Tests using electrochemical capacitors (such as those used by Stiffler in his recent documented ESEC work) are fraught with problems. This is particularly true if researchers are using the car audio grade capacitors (as Stiffler is) rather than electrochemical capacitors manufactured by makers such as Maxwell. Not only do these car audio capacitors have far lower capacitances than advertised (only 5 - 30% of advertised values in tests I have done) but their apparent capacitances vary greatly under varying operational conditions. Particularly notable is the reduction in their apparent capacitance under condition of rapid charge and discharging cycles such as Stiffler claimed the best performance for. Under such conditions calculations of the power yielded can be in error by very large margins if assumptions are made based on advertised and constant capacitance.
People using this sort of non linear, negative resistance transistor oscillator (http://www.urel.feec.vutbr.cz/RADIOENG/fulltexts/2005/05_04_033_039.pdf), would be well advised to study its performance before implementing it. Notably there is a significant frequency dependence on voltage and also a number of different modes of operation at wider voltage ranges. The steps seen in some graphs on Stifflers ESEC page are expected from this class of oscillator as the voltage varies the oscillator’s performance. -- over the voltage range applied the frequency shift is so great that the oscillator output sweeps more than one octave and in doing so drives the so called output inductor through several self resonance modes. Contrary to what Stiffler implies it is extremely easy to monitor the oscillator performance with an oscilloscope without altering its performance. Furthermore I have found the experimental version of the circuit to closely follow the performance of SPICE Simulations of the circuit which provides for a further validation of experimental circuit behaviour.
The classics.... Suppression... Paradigm shift..., a physics revolution..., Big Oil revenge..., etc, etc.... "Single wire... Overunity.... Blablablah...." Yadadadada.....
We'll see... ("soon...")
Mr. Stffler never answered any of my few (valid) questions..... I made just a few posts in his thread....
The best he can came up with was deleting the "annoying", skeptical..., "unwanted" posts. ..
For me, case closed...
Ah, never mind....
Btw, Mr. Bob Smith, I'm on this scene long enough to know what I'm talking about...
O K ? :P
So, what's going on here?
Stiffler not posting, Stifflerscientific.com offline, what happened, someone take out Dr Stiffler?
regards,
Koen
Baie dankie, Dankie ;DHe is still around. Posted yesterday in this thread.
Thing is, Dr Stiffler seems to have disappeared somewhat...
His site is partially up again but all the available info has gone,
Stiffler himself has not resurfaced since he dropped from the forum here,
and there appear to be zero developments since...
I agree that Stiffler's circuits and his single-wire experiments were/are very
interesting and some appear to indicate posible over unity, but it is
very difficult to say much more about it for lack of info.
If you have any new info, I would love to hear it. :)
Kind regards,
Koen
I suspect he is still developing but just went "underground" with it. It can be a lot easier to develop without a lot of "noise" to deal with which happened in this thread. I think he may have gotten a tight group of "replicators" or "developers" that are making progress without the "noise".correct
correctI figured as much. I did purchase two of the kits and have played with them with a great show of promise. Because of the current economic situation I am having to put in more "work" hours and less "research" hours. At least at some point I would like to jump back into the project and see what has happened since the last update. Looks like it will be a while longer before I can do that "research" due to the continuing bad economy. Need to keep the house now so I can do the research later..
I thought I would try try Dr. Stiffler's Amazing circuit.
I made a few video's of it on youtube.
Here is one called the popcorn ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kQpS6PA8p8&feature=channel_page
And here is one charging a capacitor off the bottom half of the ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM85MJRh-mY&feature=channel_page
Here is one more running a Joule Thief wireless off the power the SEC puts out while running lights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5MxLG-axM&feature=channel_page
If you make a small AV plug for the capacitor's they will charge wireless and they do charge fast.
This is an Amazing circuit thank you so much DR. Stiffler.
Congratulations @slayer007 !
Do you have a circuit shematic of your presentation here?
Looking at the videos I see that your SEC replication seems very different and simpler than the Dr.'s.
Jesus
Right now I'm not using the filter part eather.
I did try to make a filter but it didn't seem to work so I took it out.
I was getting a lot of voltage going back to the battery.
I could light an led off eather one of the battery post by holding one side of the led and tuching the battery post.
I think for the filter to work right you need the ferrite beads inbetween the caps.
But it still works great with out it.
I will try to remake it with some ferrite beads and see if it works better when I get some.
Slayer:
Not sure where you are but if in the US, be very weary of the rf that you are transmitting.
The tickets are usually 5k. That you can run off the battery post means that you have a large
amount of HF going back to the source. That is what the 3 caps and a diode are for, to trap it.
Take a scope shot off the battery and you should see the rf.
But on the other side, you have just shown me the way to fire 4 foot fl tubes for my apt. Just
curious, what is the ma drain you see? I want one for the bath, bed, kitchen and two for the main
room. Each will have its own batt and should last a long time per charge. Using 5ah gells for the
power. That should just about drop my elec bill to the monthly and watch them cry a bit.
thaelin
But on the other side, you have just shown me the way to fire 4 foot fl tubes for my apt. Just
curious, what is the ma drain you see? I want one for the bath, bed, kitchen and two for the main
room. Each will have its own batt and should last a long time per charge. Using 5ah gells for the
power. That should just about drop my elec bill to the monthly and watch them cry a bit.
thaelin
If anyone is really worried about the RF given off by the SEC circuit they could get some chicken wire,
and make a simple cage around there setup.
Just connect the chicken wire to ground and that should stop the RF from leaving area.
@slayer007
Awsome resaults!
I tried building a SEC circuit based on the same dia. as yours but couldn't get good resaults.
I think my problem may be the Transistor I was using. I used 2N5551's.
Need to get some MPSA06's.
I did have some success with a very early version of the SEC when it used the AM antenna.
Like the one by Amigo on page 69
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.680
Interesting how the SEC started out as a Joule Thief with a ferrite antenna instead of a toroid,
and then evolved into what we have on page 226.
If anyone is really worried about the RF given off by the SEC circuit they could get some chicken wire,@AbbaRue
and make a simple cage around there setup.
Just connect the chicken wire to ground and that should stop the RF from leaving area.
@slayer007
Awsome resaults!
I tried building a SEC circuit based on the same dia. as yours but couldn't get good resaults.
I think my problem may be the Transistor I was using. I used 2N5551's.
Need to get some MPSA06's.
I did have some success with a very early version of the SEC when it used the AM antenna.
Like the one by Amigo on page 69
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.680
Interesting how the SEC started out as a Joule Thief with a ferrite antenna instead of a toroid,
and then evolved into what we have on page 226.
I am of an opinion that MPSA06 is not necessarily the only transistor that will work, though it is the best one so far.@amigo
I have gotten the SEC effect with 2N2222, 2N3904, 2N3905...I have some 2N4401 and will try those as well soon.
Also, with all the testing I have done, I do not believe hFE has major impact on the performance of the SEC (though it might be contributing to its operation). The MPSA06s tried were from several different vendors with a wide range of gains, anywhere from 60 to over 300, and they all appeared to have performed as expected.
Of course, as no real sensitive measurements have been done, it still warrants further investigation and experimentation to determine which ones do work better than others.
Dr Stiffler,@AquariuZ
I am trying to access the referenced YouTube videos in this section but they have all been removed by "user".
Next I tried to access your referenced websites and they are no longer online, nor is the one referenced in your profile (parked).
Can you please point me to your active website and videos?
Thank you in advance.
AZ
@AbbaRuemind you, blocking oscilators date way back before 1995.
**Interesting how the SEC started out as a Joule Thief with a ferrite antenna instead of a toroid,
and then evolved into what we have on page 226. **
LOL
What? SEC Exciters came from a JT? I know that sun spots are down, but this is ridiculous. Sorry to spoil your dream but the first open ended coil exciter was built in 1995.
Besides happening way before this JT thing was born LOL, how can you even compare the two different systems?
mind you, blocking oscilators date way back before 1995.
it is true that the SEC does not work like a joule thief at all, and both are far from having the same root.
but what is the point of using precedance date ?
i can understand that you don't have time to teach peoples with lower electronic understanding.
but not that you have time to be rude with them.
simply stating "no, the SEC and the jt are different" would have been faster to type and would have been understood by everyone.
competent in the field or not.
@TheNOP;D
Did you know that in the assembly language that a NOP is a do nothing command used to often fill a patch space or take up time uselessly? Humm.......
@amigo
Read back through this thread and you will see that successful replications have consisted of the 06 transistor and asserting that many others will work without (knowing for sure) will only lead to many failures. So you are able to state this without quantitative results as a reference?
;D@TheNOP
i could talk to you about ASM more then you can think of.
to understand my choice of this username, you must look at why and when it is used.
Hi Doc,@amigo
As you know I always state things from my own observation, and also add a clause that further and more observation is required by others, to deliver some quantitative results.
So no, these are just my short experimental observations and I do not have paperwork to prove other transistors work as good as MPSA06. I even agreed that MPSA06 works the best and is to be used, but I always keep a door open to other possibilities. :)
@drstffler@nievesoliveras
Even though I have not learned the radio frequencies stuff yet. I am still on the logic circuits.
Will you sell me one of your SEC circuits?
Jesus
@nievesoliveras
If you can have a credentialed University of College request one for you, yes I can supply one. I do not offer boards to the general public.
Thank you @drstiffler !@nievesoliveras
If you are not going to help the general public, what are you doing here?
God bless you!
Jesus
@nievesoliveras
Well I am not 'My Brothers Keeper', maybe you should look at reaping what you sow?
Z80, 6502,6809 was my play toys in that order.i can understand why, in most cases.
That was one instruction I tried to stay away from.
@TheNOPi know about paper tape punch tech, but that was invented before i started to learn life, so don't expect too much.
Oh, quite sure my 50 years of programming pale when compared to yours. The old ASR paper tape punch to read into a PDP8 must be child's play for you.
In short I doubt yo are as good at programming as you are at telling someone how to conduct ones self.and this confirm what i wrote.
Why do you need Dr.Stiffler to sell you one of the SEC boards when you can build the circuit yourself?because, a unit build by the maker of the circuit, is more likely to work as claimed then one you are trying to build without knowing what you are doing ?
@nievesoliveras
Why do you need Dr.Stiffler to sell you one of the SEC boards when you can build the circuit yourself?
He DID release the schematic with all the details along with so many videos describing it.
Many people, including yours truly, have already replicated the circuit on breadboards and protoboards, and it works "as advertised."
If you need the parts, PM me and I'll mail you some...
Hi Stefan and all,
I have noticed this thread has been alive for several years now. My scanning has only revealed that important videos have been removed and I still can't find Dr Stiffler's fundamental circuit. Can someone provide this or steer me in the correct direction, link ... anything. I would not make a good detective ... sorry.
Thanks in advance,
Greg
Hi Stefan and all,
I have noticed this thread has been alive for several years now. My scanning has only revealed that important videos have been removed and I still can't find Dr Stiffler's fundamental circuit. Can someone provide this or steer me in the correct direction, link ... anything. I would not make a good detective ... sorry.
Thanks in advance,
Greg
Hi Stefan and all,
I have noticed this thread has been alive for several years now. My scanning has only revealed that important videos have been removed and I still can't find Dr Stiffler's fundamental circuit. Can someone provide this or steer me in the correct direction, link ... anything. I would not make a good detective ... sorry.
Thanks in advance,
Greg
Looking at a Self Runner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--aAK3vpjHw
Hi Docthe doc quit here long ago, not quite sure why he made this latest cameo appearance. furthermore, it appears he has quit his new abode as well. see this post by the doc...
Very quiet around here, anyway this guy is very busy on YouTube and many videos
SEC exciter.Torroid hybrid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XI4N-HrPm4
cat
I wander, what is currently going on with this "SEC", Doc "cold electricity" Stiffler's circuit?it's wonder, not wander.
For what is known, there are several "YT proof" videos, but still no a 3rd party validations?
Sounds like a typical "OU" conceptual error.... Which, usually turns out to be just a measurement error.
Surely, MiBs are playing the major role here.
for anyone intrested you can now buy completed Sec 18-1 from his site for 25.95 shipping included USA and a few dollars more for international . Not advertizing for him its just information only .
Also i see he up and runned from energetic forum like he did here .
gadget
for anyone intrested you can now buy completed Sec 18-1 from his site for 25.95 shipping included USA and a few dollars more for international . Not advertizing for him its just information only .
Also i see he up and runned from energetic forum like he did here .
gadget
@gadgetmall
How can you sleep at night? What allows you to say I (ran) from anywhere? I left OU.com and yes I have left EGF because of Dysfunctional BS, just like your far from factual statement than I (up and runned).
Ever wondered what facts and civility could offer??
Slayer:
Very nicely done. Do you think that set-up will take the 9 volt batteries down to 0 or near 0 charge?
Very cool.
Bill
Here is a short video using two rechargeable 9v batteries to run the exiter's to charge a big 12v battery.
The negative side of the run battery is going to the positive side of the cap.
Then the negative side of the cap is going to the negative on the exiter's.
Both exiter's the L3 coil is replaced with an AV plug that is also going to the cap.
Then the power from the cap is going through a diode to the charge battery.
After around an hour of running the charge battery went from 12.0v to 12.54v.
http://www.youtube.com/user/GBluer#p/a/u/0/BLNGc7pCqwk (http://www.youtube.com/user/GBluer#p/a/u/0/BLNGc7pCqwk)
Looks interesting. If you can take the big battery voltage measurements after it has been resting unused for at least several hours and still show an increase in voltage, then that's amazing. Let me know if that's possible, then I'd love to replicate it.
IOW, let big battery sit unconnected for at least several hours, measure it's voltage, then connect your circuit and charge the big battery, then disconnect big battery & let it sit unconnected for at least several hours, then measure it's voltage.
Regards,
Paul
Hello Paul.
I did let it sit all night and checked the voltage in the morning.
The voltage did drop a little in the charge battery.
It dropped from 12.55 to 12.32 after sitting all night.
I then drained the battery and recharged it.
This time I used a 12v in series with a 9v for the run batteries.
It charged so fast the charge battery went up 12.80 in no time.
The run battery was a 12v @ 12.24 the 9v was @ 9.01v
The 12v run battery went down to 12.20v then after sitting recovered all it's power back to 12.24v
The charge battery went down from 12.80 to 12.61 after sitting two hours.
But is now holding at 12.61
That's amazing. I mean, even 12.32V because it started at 12.0V, right? If someone was to replicate one of these circuits, can you point out the most efficient one, perhaps yours or one of Dr.Stiffler?
Paul
Thanks for sharing your videos. What type of rechargeable 9V batteries are those, NiCd, NiMH, Lithium?
I have some ferrite rods about that size. Do you know if they're 125 or 800 permeability?
Anyhow, if you don't mind, sometime this or next week I'll build one of your circuits. It would be worth it just for the cool wireless effects alone. :)
Regards,
Paul
Hi slayer007,
Could I talk you into posting the circuit in this video of yours,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk
I would like to build that exact circuit.
Thanks!
Paul
Is there anyway you can draw the circuit used in that particular video? If it's easier, maybe you could draw the circuit on paper, video it, and then upload the video at youtube. Whatever's easier. It would help a lot of people! In that circuit it seems like you have the large capacitor, source batteries, and charging batteries connected differently.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk)
Thanks,
Paul
Thanks, but there are unknowns in that video. In video it says "positive from run batteries is going right through the exciter. Negative side of the run batteries is going to the positive side of this big capacitor, and the negative side (of the big capacitor) is going back to the exciter. Both exciters the L3 coil is gone. I have ----- plug in place. That's running back to the capacitor (big capacitor), and going to the charge battery (large car battery)."
To be honest, regarding the routes of all the batteries & large cap is all unclear. Actually it's all unclear. :( A drawn circuit should clarify.
Thanks if you can clarify.
Paul
That helps. You wrote that L1 has 22 turns around 1/2 pipe. Also you wrote L2 has 35 turns around a 1/2 pcv pipe and can range from 22uh to 60uh. So I'll know which ones you're talking about, can you point out what inductor A, B, and C are relative to L1, L2, or Lb?
http://globalfreeenergy.info/imgs/slayer007-circuit-q1.gif (http://globalfreeenergy.info/imgs/slayer007-circuit-q1.gif)
Thanks for the help!
Paul
@gadgetmallDr. Stiffler . please Don't get mad at me. I apologize and did not mean to offend you . I have a different perspective on things that's all . Sometime My mouth gets in the way . I did flatter you Sir . You have an interesting device and i like it . And so i Am again Sorry . Please accept My Apology . I will try to remain Silent and ask My questions from someone else . I don't type or think in syntax because i am not a programmed computer :) I am Curious and extremely interested in powering Circuits from the lowest possible Voltage and MA's . I would like to power your circuit from a 1 volt battery if its possible to have any gain . I have built the first AA powered nichrome wire heater from a joule thief .It charges a Large 650 farad 2.7 volt capacitor up to full capacity and leaves 3500 AMPS to do work . while the AA battery only drops a measly 5 1000's of a volt and powering 1 watt worth of LEDS. I Would like to see efficiency from your circuit do the same and will attempt to charge one with it .
How can you sleep at night? What allows you to say I (ran) from anywhere? I left OU.com and yes I have left EGF because of Dysfunctional BS, just like your far from factual statement than I (up and runned).
Ever wondered what facts and civility could offer??
slayer007,Hi Paul .Its very possible he is seeing gain . I have demonstrated over the unity of a primary source in the Jule thief thread . from an aa battery 2500mah i have charged an ultracapacitor to full capacity with only a few microvolts of loss from the battery 1.4 volt battery . I have stored 3500 AMPS that burn wire and produce HEAT while producing light at the same time . this Amperage is not cold electricity . The worlds first aa battery nichrome heater / light schematic is on page 997 thru 1002 and there is an ongoing experiment . this is easily replicated and you can build one in about 5 minutes . i do not own an ampmeter to measure the output amps on the ultracapacitor however if you read the last 8 or so pages i can brightly burn nichrome coils while lighting up two .5 watt 5 chip leds . i welcome replications as it is easy to do.
On numerous times I've asked you a particular question, which you have ignored. And then I asked the question in a PM. You've logged in over 1/2 dozen times, no reply. Please tell me if you don't want anyone verifying your claim of two dead 9V batteries (~ 8V each) charging a 80 AH car battery. That is a huge claim that if true could be the smoking gun.
Thanks,
Paul
Hi Paul .Its very possible he is seeing gain . I have demonstrated over the unity of a primary source in the Jule thief thread . from an aa battery 2500mah i have charger an ultracapacitor to full capacity with only a few microvolts of loss from the battery 1.4 volt battery . I have stored 3500 AMPS that burn wire and produce HEAT while producing light at the same time . this Amperage is not cold electricity . The worlds first aa battery nichrome heater / light schematic is on page 997 thru 1002 and there is an ongoing experiment . this is easily replicated and you can build one it about 5 minutes
Hi gadgetmall,I posted an updated Schematic Showing some how to connect n ampmeter without interrupting the circuit here http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.new#new
Slayer007 claim seems very clear. Both of his rechargeable 9V NiMH 250mAH batteries is just over 8V, which means they are considered dead, very low amount of energy left. His 80 AH car battery started at 12V, and ended at over 12.35V. Such a 12V battery at 12V is only ~ 16% charged. The 12V car battery at 12.35V is ~ 62% charged. That's a difference of 46%, which for a 80AH battery comes to 80 amps * 3600 seconds * 0.46 = 132480 joules. Even if both of his 250mAH batteries were fully charged, they would have 2 * 0.25 amps * 3600 = 1800 joules, but his batteries were dead and no where near 1800 joules.
So IMO slayer007 either gave wrong information, or it's the smoking gun.
Regarding your experiment, wow that sounds very interesting. A 2500mAH battery fully charged a "ultracapacitor" without much loss from the 2500mAH battery? I'll take a look through your posts to find the details, or if you already have a link then that's greatly appreciated!
Paul
Slayer007 has replied to my PM, and says he'll draw the car battery charging circuit in its entirety tonight. Looking forward to it, as I've already spent over 4 hours trying to figure out the details! :)
Paul
Here's the circuit. Please let me know if there's an error! There might be an error with C2 since that part is a bit iffy in your drawing.
Thanks very much!
Paul
@Paul
Quote:
"Here's the circuit. Please let me know if there's an error! There might be an error with C2 since that part is a bit iffy in your drawing."
Yes there is an error on the emitter of Q1 to C2, here is the corrected diagram.
Hi Folks,
I understand this corrected circuit already covers the circuit Dr Stiffler built and I wonder how the negative pole of the 18V supply voltage gets to the emitter of the Q1 transistor?
In some of Dr Stiffler's earlier than this SEC versions, the negative polarity line of the supply voltage went directly to the emitter (via a choke coil) with a piece of wire and this seems to be missing here. I do not mean this is needed here, maybe that is how Dr Stiffler built it indeed, but I find it unusual.
Thanks for any explanation in advance.
rgds, Gyula
It's still there it's just going through the big cap first.
This way the cap will charge just from the Sec running.
And the AV plugs help to top it off.
Dr. Stiffler,
Thanks very much for the circuit! It seems interesting, and will add it to my build list.
Regards,
Paul
Hi gadgetmall,
here you can see how to measure your supercap.
Regards
Kator01
Kator01
gadget is not posting in this thread, as this is the circuit from Dr.Stiffler thread.
BTW gadget is using an ultra-cap not a super.
cat
Dr. Stiffler,
You definitely know you stuff, which is refreshing to see at this forum. May I ask what were the power ratings of the 3 resistors used in capacitance measuring experiments.
Paul
Dr. Stiffler,
Are you referring to your capacitance measuring experiments,
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper (http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper)
Your paper mentions three load resistors. I was wondering what the power wattage rating was on the resistors.
Thanks,
Paul
Dr. Stiffler,
Again regarding the cap measurements, I'm wondering how your caps would perform if the load was higher resistance. I have no idea about such cap technology, but maybe the cap *efficiency* is far higher at lower levels of current. Obviously the caps are rated at higher current levels then what you tested, but I'm wondering if their efficiency varies a lot with the current.
Paul
Dr. Stiffler,
The manufacturer might be saying that the typical bcap is 3F, and is *capable* of such high current, but the cap might be inefficient at high current. If it is, then you can't get all of the cap energy into the load unless you use low current tests. I'm not siding with the manufacturer, and I'm not saying that's the way their caps are, but I know the caps will most likely be more efficient at 40mA versus 2000mA. This might be an inherant effect of such super/ultra capacitors. The question is, if one did the experiments at say 40mA, then would it amount to 3F.
Regards,
Paul
@Kator01 @All
I'm not back to get into discussions or start the usual fireline as last time, I may pop in no and them when it looks like a bit of input may help.
And so is the case with Super Caps. Measuring the time constant of Super Caps is a waste of ones time, it does not provide accurate information.
I have included a link to a paper I did on Boost Caps and the paper contains references to other papers and manufactures on how a Super Cap must be tested. If not done properly many different values can be determined from the same cap under test.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper
Hi Dr.Stiffler,
had a quick look at your measurements.
Well, you used only 5 and 10 ohms load resistors to do this.
What would come out of this test, if you would use
100 Ohm and 1000 ohm load resistors ?
Maybe as Paul said, the lower the current is, the better and
more efficient these caps will be ?
What I found very interesting in your test was, that you needed
less time to charge up the caps with the ? same load resistor ?
So doesn´t that already say, that there is an energy gain ?
During charging the caps seemed to have a smaller capacity,
so you needed less Joules from the power supply.
During discharge the caps seemed to have a larger capacity
and thus delivered more Joules to the load resistor ?
Maybe this is the effect user Gadgetmail is using,
cause he claims his JT circuit with a supercap is overunity ?
Please let me know your comments.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan
C = I*t / (V1-V2)
poynt99.
In that article, it seems like they are assuming the cause is ESR, but I can't see that being the cause because these caps have extremely low ESR, not high, which is evident by the fact (according to the datasheet) that the short circuit current is 3500 amps! 2.7V / 3500A = 0.77 ohms, which is in agreement with the datasheet ESR. That would indicate the cap resistance remains relatively constant to current for a given temperature, no?
Looks like they're having the same issues in explaining these caps. ;)
Paul
Hi Paul,
You may have noticed you happened to omit the word "milli" in your ESR calculation : it is 0.77 mOhm and not Ohm, ok?
This morning I did 17 ultracap measurements. I'm still not going to say for certain if the results show excess energy, but the measurements seem to indicate that might be the case. For me it's way to early to say for certain. The data is found at my blog site, and I was going to copy & paste it here, but there are key areas of interest that are highlighted in red, and I'm not going to take the extra time to due such highlighting here,
http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/11/26/more-ultracap-measurements/ (http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/11/26/more-ultracap-measurements/)
Today's Thanksgiving for us, so there's a chance I'll have to wait till tomorrow to do more experiments.
Regards,
Paul
So this shows that charging should happen with low amperage and discharging with high?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the JT gave high boltage spikes at low amperage, and then the bcap was discharged at low voltage at high amperage.
im going to say you both are correct
here is why ... you have 2 hands..
w
i finally got my 18-1 working in a 'vicious circle' similar to the video the doc showed awhile back.
i have some of my towers making hho as per the docs even earlier videos and using that flame and thermocouples, i have the necessary juice to provide the 'tickle' as the doc called it to get the whole thing going without the need for a freq. generator. it just needs to be bootstrapped with a lighter...
anyone else other than the good doc working along these lines?
When you get some time you need to make a video of it.sorry, i don't make videos, and from the looks of things it is quite possible i won't be posting at this site in the future.
It sounds interesting I'd see what your talking about.
sorry, i don't make videos, and from the looks of things it is quite possible i won't be posting at this site in the future.
it's simple really, it's just a combination of stiffler's can water be burned video and his video where he tickles the sec tower coil with the 1V input from his freq. gen. and gets that vicious circle going. all i have done is connect the dots and combine the two. instead of using a freq. genny i use the juice from the thermocouple(s) to power a discrete circuit that replaces the freq. generator's 'tickle'. holding a lighter under the thermocouple(s) bootstraps the whole process and when enough hho is created, it is self running. voilÃ
Could you snap a picture of the setup? I would think if you got something like this running, you would be aching to show people..I know I would. Do you have any readings on the output of your thermocouple? Also what type of electrodes are you using?Indeed, if wilby has managed to close the loop, so to speak, I would love to see a detailed circuit schematic along with materials and construction details, rather than just a brief description of what he's done.
Could you snap a picture of the setup? I would think if you got something like this running, you would be aching to show people..I know I would. Do you have any readings on the output of your thermocouple? Also what type of electrodes are you using?i'm not interested in the inevitable maelstrom of assumption, speculaton and criticism that will ensue if i do that. nope, no aches... ;) stiffler already showed how to do it. it was him saying "i wish someone would send me a stirling engine" that got me going on it. thanks to the talking heads that video is gone now... 120V @ 10 mA and 2V @ .5A (approx.) is the output on the TEG. carbon electrodes.
Indeed, if wilby has managed to close the loop, so to speak, I would love to see a detailed circuit schematic along with materials and construction details, rather than just a brief description of what he's done.i didn't do anything special, stiffler showed all of this before. i just came up with a way to provide the tickle other than using a freq. generator, and the way i did it is not the only way... think about it. you can find the circuits on stifflers site and other places.
A succesfull replication based on his work would validate his claims and at the same time help to break the nexus between conservative science and self interested business conglomerates.
How about it wilby. Can and will you share more information on your successful experiment ??
Cheers
i'm not interested in the inevitable maelstrom of assumption, speculaton and criticism that will ensue if i do that. nope, no aches... ;)
That is probably the right decision. I'm sure you realize that every one wants someone else to do all the work and post the finished product so all can have.
Why even talk about it then? To dangle an imaginary sting? Yea go hide in a corner then.
That's what you really believe? I've worked almost daily for 2 years with the sec, trying to learn all I can, and I am sad that you view people like me as a leach who sits around and does nothing but wait for your next step up. Perhaps there are people who don't have the brilliant background of superior electronic skills such as you who want to learn and educate themselves in order to further the cause, and break free of the cell we are born into. But f them right? They add nothing. It's no wonder humanity is in the gutter.
I always thought it was about helping people.."I" will continue to believe that, and no one will convince me otherwise. Better believe if I have anything good to share I'm gonna ram it down peoples' throats.
That's all from me. Feel free to get rid of me like the others.
Really, Helping people and (Carrying) people is totally two different things. What every give someone the right to say that because I spent my life working and learning, sweating and crying that I now owe all of what I have or can accomplish to the rest of the world??
Oh yes! If I could pull all my circuits back ad take them to the grave I would, I don't feel they will benefit anyone, you have to give forth to receive, not just receive.
I agree you owe nobody anything, it's up to you whether you want to "share" that knowledge for the benefit of others.
We are all on this rock together, sure there's 80% who would step on you to get to a higher plane. But it's not about them. How do you think the human race advances itself? It builds upon the information the previous generation left behind.
I don't mean to imply that you are a bad guy, I actually have a lot of respect for you and what you have already freely given to the community, where so many others haven't. I don't view you as someone looking for the big payout, I've never viewed you in this way. If you were you wouldn't have shared so much as you did. If you want to patent and sell your system, I think you have definitely earned that, and I have no problem with that what's so ever..I wish you good luck with that, "honestly". If I ever see it on the market, I will be one of the first to stand in line, because I'm sure it will be a kickass product. Again, if you need help with aesthetics, ergonomics or usability I would be happy to help. :P
I am only sad that you would up and leave the group because someone questions your integrity or says something wrong. Why should it be so easy to make you leave? Who cares what someone else thinks. It really doesn't matter as long as you are doing what you love to do. I'm not asking you to "carry" anyone. I was known by some of my teachers for being very independent, because I would take the initiative to learn things myself without asking the teacher, so I know exactly what you mean by that. Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for life..
Too late, they have already helped many people lite their way. ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibE7IqEjni4
i had a long winded response all typed up, but,I never assume anything.
like sands through the hourglass so are the days of OUr lives... ::)
freezer, the reason i said anything certainly wasn't to dangle a string... it was to share, and perhaps, like the doc did to me, to inspire... i said it once before when i was still working on it, in the half baked section in a thread about 'burn water for heating system' and had to deal with talking heads like spoondini making assumptions, positing flawed arguments and jumping to conclusions. go read it and you may start to understand where i am coming from. ok, back to my corner to hide...
doc stiffler, the TEG is ancient, and massive. i scavenged it, crazy what people will throw away... it's from the 30's or 40's? it was originally used to power a radio from a kerosene lamp. man, they don't make shit like they used to.
i owe you a world of thanks for what you did choose to share...
to whom it may concern,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_GqE5aDR68 this isn't the one i used. read the comments for a good laugh :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Dak5UOjew
there is the JTEC also. the user lumen? has mentioned it a couple times IIRC.
http://www.johnsonems.com/?q=node/2
I never assume anything.
I have already made a number of successful replications of DOC's earlier circuits, which was easy, because he gave detailed schematics, and materials/construction tips.
What interested me in your statement, was that you "did away with the frequency generator" and used a thermocoupler rigged up to another circuit. Great for you, but unlike the doc, you've given no details whatever to show what you mean. Pity.
I for one would like to replicate it, but the minimal information you gave is obtuse to say the least.
Oh well, guess I'll just have to keep going around in circles till something promising becomes evident.
Que sera
Cheers
Thank you... now that you have passed the initial reaction to what I said I think what you state makes sense (well almost all).
Teaching a man to fish is much different than fishing for him. I have and continue to freely give out information that many have connected the dots to, so I have no regrets as to my methods nor shall I apologize to anyone for trying to get some understanding across.
Here is the bottom line, and I have been kick, poked, stepped on and rejected for every saying it, but I'll say it again and what it is, is that to play in the sand box you need your own shovel. Everyone want so called (free) energy, and it is out there and will come, but it will be controlled like the energy you get today. Why, well many reasons, but the one I keep saying over and over again is that you can not obtain the results I obtain from my circuits unless you can observe the dynamics of the circuits themselves. I once made the stupid statement that got me the wrath of Kahn that you needed $40K minimum of equipment to get a CEC>1. Well I won't say that again, but.... So where does that leave the pursuit? If the man on the street does not have the capability to build, test and tune the devices he needs, then what is the answer? Well someone else must, is that commercialization? Yes when it the utilities that do it. Why do you you think I ever built the 15, 18, 20 and 40 series boards? For profit, hey! I made enough to maybe pay two months electric bills in Houston Texas for the months of July and August, if you think that is business and making a profit for all the work involve, then I don't want you for a business partner.
I built these boards so everyone could have a stable platform to work and explore from, period. ALL of the boards are capable of CEC>1, but how does the average user see than? Oh, sorry, free runner, please folks that is not the sole test of so called over-unity.
Simply put I don't take any sh__, why do I have to? Who do I owe? I am trying to get people to not only see what is possible but open the door in their mine so hundreds of people can tap the energy sources available in many different ways. It's like getting the feel for that slight tug on that fishing line as the fish nibbles the bait and knowing just when to jerk the line to set the hook.
But then again I guess we have fish markets because all people can not or do not want to fish and they get real mad when the market is out.
Thanks for answering back, I see now that maybe you (as I many times) took what I said wrong and maybe, just maybe we are not all that far apart.
Quarktoo
Is one wire electrolysis in distilled water nothing special?
{last time I looked I think that was the claim[I could be wrong]]
Chet
...
Is one wire electrolysis in distilled water nothing special?
...
It is not a one wire electrolysis.
There are the two diode electrodes.
To be more exact, it is a no wire set-up as the diode is not connected to anything at all. Also, the bubbles only emanate from one end of the diode and not the other, so I believe that makes this a bit unusual.
Bill
Anyone know why he took down his youtube channel?last i heard from the old bear he was pissed about some people allegedly trying to hack his computers at his lab. he has done this before (taken his ball and gone home). a bit sad as there was some decent discussion in his threads. that is, when all the various EE's kept their overunity egos in check and didn't engage in elementary schoolyard pissing contests.
-Altrez
(...) didn't engage in elementary schoolyard pissing contests.
LOL
His Name is Grumpy.
And he does not know that his "conduction current" is a wrong name.
It is CONVENTIONAL CURRENT and CONVECTION CURRENT.
Where Conventional is the current through and over wires, and the Convection current implies to the other form.
By the way sleeplijn moordenaar is also a wrong translation!
It shows imediatly that a translator was used.. ::)
I don't know or care what you mean by the rest of your rant.
191 pages and i still did not see any selfrunning circuit ::)
I did see one video with a diode in water and some inventor that had no idea what was going on telling me to "save the vid" before it's gone :D
herger, conduction current is defined as "a movement ('flow') of charges due to the presence of an electric field". do you agree with that definition and if not, what is your definition of 'conduction current'? also, what is your definition of 'cold current' and where do you see it demonstrated in these circuits?
I don't buy it Grumpy ::)
Why don't you try to fool somebody else?
:D
This is getting really old, Murk. Just like your I have an OU device stories.
This is getting really old, Murk. Just like your I have an OU device stories.
This is getting really old, Murk. Just like your I have an OU device stories.
Is Dr. Stiffler still running this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYY7TqS380
via any power supply or does he just excite it
via this ground coil only ?
If this is really running only by hooking up this ground coil
and everything else is just resonance and no battery or
any other power supply input, that is really amazing.
I have read that he uses a special transistor with a special
negative resistor characteristic curve...
Does anybody know more ?
Many thanks.
Yes, its still on Youtube. Its what he doesn't show that is so aggravating. He doesn't show starting it or show that it is a self starter. He doesn't disconnect the ground and show that it stops and/or restarts during this process. He doesn't show the resultant voltage on the rails of the Osc. while it is working (which I suspect are very high, bulging caps, blown LED's), or the current in the Osc. while running (which I suspect at resonance is fairly low). Then goes entirely opposite of the wideband effect and he shows it locking in on one frequency while operational which shows resonance in the whole circuit. To add insult to injury, he comes up with a Propriety transistor and of course no one but him "knows" what it is.
IF it is as shown, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, what a excellent example and demonstration of his SEC theory. That he has been able to prevent run-away by loading the collector of the "transistor" via a AV plug, which de-tunes it under load with resultant negative feedback at that point, he is thus able to sustain a stable balanced operational system. I suspect he has found a very high voltage transistor with negative resistance characteristics similar to the 2N2222 that when the fold back from the output, isolated via the 2 L3 coils, the third to ground, is phased correctly via resonance into the AV plug, results in OU from the SEC theoretical near field around the device. The SEC provides the field but a lot of other theories have to fall into place for it to work and that is the genius of Stiffler.
Ben K4ZEP
MPS06
with an hfe of 400 to 750
Vbe of .17
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540)
Ho boy, looks more and more like we are looking at a germanium transisotr, very early unit, high gain, Vbe of .17V has to be germanium, it was from this type of transistor late in the 50's the Tunnel diode was developed at Sony.......and the plot thickens.
Now if he was able to get a special run of these transistors in a TO-92 case, well throw all the stuff out the door.........
Ben
not sure who supplied this info
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVFusWKCNc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
What is the circuit diagramm they show here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQBziLqMyA0
at about Minute 5:30 ?
Is this a Kapanadze device ?
Can somebody who speaks Russian please post a summary ?
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVFusWKCNc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=ULwhat does this have to do with stiffler's SEC circuits?
Well gang, there are 3 more Stiffler videos on YouTube that pretty well show how he does that 3 coil version. My Hat's off to him for giving everyone this guidance. Schematic, tips, really first rate information. Emphasis on isolation, position, etc.
Only thing he doesn't mention but once is that it has to be excited to start it, then it runs, if that is the way I heard it. I have everything to build it, test it, just have to wind 3, 22uH coils and match them at their approximately 25mhz self resonant frequency. It appears that the better you match the three coils, the better it will work. Then too, why not excite the 3 coil system with a SEC board operating in low power mode, feeding power back into the SEC via the AV Plug. As voltage and power loops back to the power rails and increases, it should then click into high power mode if kept on the right frequency and you have the best of both worlds. Just thinking out loud.
Right ON,
Ben
I thought it was 26.62uH. Can you confirm it is 22?
Depending on part placement, and local interaction, it could be anywhere anywhere between 22 and 26+uH. Any idea what value of C he is using? Assume in the 50-470 pf range.????? Placement and coil interaction is so
tied in to what is going on......The old 22uh ferrite that was used earlier has a self res. of about 25 mhz. Wind too many turns and
then trim 1 turn or 1/2 turn at a time till you are dead on whatever X2 frequency you want to use. Then match the other two the same
exact frequency as you can do with your test equipment. Heck, I'm wandering around here in a fog anyway!
Ben
Heck, I'm wandering around here in a fog anyway!
Ben
MPS06i sent that info to poynt... i felt milehigh had his foot so far down his mouth he was probably choking.
with an hfe of 400 to 750
Vbe of .17
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540)
not sure who supplied this info
The "special custom transistor" is also a big red flag that should make you very wary of what Mr. Stiffler is saying here. If he said "specially qualified transistor" that would be a different thing, implying that he had to go through a batch of standard transistors to find one with performance characteristics that met his requirements. However, I even find that logic to be very weak. In my opinion there is almost no reason that the normal variability associated with a given transistor part number should pose a major problem for the type of stuff that he is doing. Finally, if you take the literal interpretation of "special custom transistor" at face value, then that doesn't make much sense either. Certainly no semiconductor company has made a "special custom transistor" for Mr. Stiffler because he would probably have to buy a million of them to get them to do a custom design just for him. So that leaves him finding a non-standard transistor at an electronics recycling place and calling it a "special custom transistor."
MileHigh
WilbyInebriated - how many electronic design projects have you been involved with?hundreds, maybe thousands now, i design electronic projects all the time. i have never kept count. ;)
Never mind - I read that it was milehigh that needed that question. Must continue on......
Take care.
nap
hundreds, maybe thousands now, i design electronic projects all the time. i have never kept count. ;)
yup - indeed he does and a few more... ;) carry on
you too.
as an aside, the information i sent to poynt is nothing secret or something that only a select few were privy to. anyone who has been following stiffler's work with any sort of diligence would have been aware of this custom transistor... stiffler spoke of it awhile back and it's all in the public realm.
Interesting. I seem to recall that MH had some problems understanding the JT circuit. Go figure.;D he still has problems with the JT... stuck his foot in mouth a couple times already in the OUR jt threads. now he is on to dynamometers, someone should tell him it's the engine that applies the load to the dyno... ;) and that a chassis dyno measures torque or power delivered to the simulated 'road' (read as dynamometer rollers) via the drive wheels and what type of "engine" (be it gas, electric, powered by mh's hot air or his mom in hamster wheel...) is being used is irrelevant... it's not an engine dyno being used... ::)
Bill
In the real world you can't use high frequency AC for power transmission just like you can't use Bedini-style pulse motors as motors. All of this stuff produces ridiculous amounts of interfering high-frequency EMI radiation and you wouldn't be able to use your cell phones, radios, or televisions.i don't give a rat's ass about you or anyone else being able to use their entertainment gadgets. ignoring possible avenues of improvement so you can stare at the tv like a junkie is a thought process only someone like you could endorse... ::)
High power on ground currents with excitation. Time to work on looping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUhLyrDE2qw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUhLyrDE2qw
OH, last time I put my face on a video, did it for a hoot.
Ben
Great Work Ben. Thanks for sharing your experiments. :)
I really would like to replicate your particular coil setup.
I listened to your videos and think I heard you say "air duct bmw 2 inch coils, 25 turns".
What sort of wire are you using ? (Aluminium ? Insulated? Sorry, I couldn't tell from the video).
How thick is it? (gauge ?)
Where might I search to source some of it?
Thanks in advance if you choose to answer my query and for any further information regarding coil construction.
Oh, and the face was a hoot :P
Cheers from hoptoad, ....... KneeDeep
You can get the wire sizes and dimensions off the AirDuct Site.
AirDux Air Wound Coils: http://www.airdux.com/ (http://www.airdux.com/)
Cheaper to make: http://www.eham.net/articles/23124 (http://www.eham.net/articles/23124)
Morning HopToad,
I have had a coil laying around for several years that was just available. It is a B&W Airdux "TZ" 1608TL, 2" diameter, 8 turns/inch, total of 80 turns. I think it is copper with silver coating. A VERY nice coil.
http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/coilcat.htm
Very expensive but I got it off Ebay years ago for less than $10.00.
I then cut it into 3 equal sections of 25 turns each, 17.01uh. but believe it or not, had to tweak them for matching as far as self resonance frequency. TRY EBAY, there is always a lot of Air Dux, mini inductor, roller inductor as search perimeters. I am certain a nice coil, hand wound on an insulated form would work just fine as in Dr. Stiffler's L3 coils. Just remember they HAVE TO BE MATCHED in a active self resonance test. Hope this helps.
Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP
Thanks Duff, ...
And Thanks Ben .... the info is greatly appreciated.
Now to leap where no toad has leapt before! And hopefully, not just E'Bay :D
Cheers
This is a huge thread.. not going to take the time to search if these have been posted or not.@4tesla: rather than trying to go through this large thread looking for your links, simply use the site's search function. click on the search button in the main site navigation menu and copy/paste your link and then hit search. if this thread comes up in the results you know it has been previously posted.
Dr Stiffler's new YouTube Channel (3 months old)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr
Self Oscillating Hybrid Exciter #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYY7TqS380
Driving LED, No Battery and No Transistor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIIhgHTEoM0
New article over at PESWiki (March 5th):
http://pesn.com/2011/03/05/9501780_Stiffler_Frequency_Amplification_Effect_Replicated/
Dr.Stiffler has posted now the circuit at his website:@all + hartiberlin
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp
Sorry!Is Dr. Stiffler still around to post results on the 'Web?
This Link is no longer valid.
The link is KA PUT
Chet
Is Dr. Stiffler still around to post results on the 'Web?
He was active on OU.com recently. He had several papers on his old site I wanted to download.
--Lee
Here are some of his documents:Thanks. I'll see what I can do with them.
http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/6820479
http://67.76.235.52/contents.htm
Remember ECAT, now we have Poly-Phase SEC 18-x in self run mode with source battery recharge.
See what will be video streamed with quantitative on screen measurements, soon...
www.stifflerscientific.com
@all + hartiberlinOkay, I think I finally stumbled on the answer:
I get this error message for the 'Web address above:
http://67.76.235.52/invalid/invalidpg.htm
Just so you know. And I just rechecked it a few seconds ago.
--Lee
Lee:Right, Pirate, thank you. If I run into any more, or something I otherwise think is fishy, should I bring it to someone like you, or merely warn others---or both?
That was a spammer and it has been removed and he will be deleted by Stefan. These are hard for me to keep up with sometimes, they seem to be everywhere. ...
Right, Pirate, thank you. If I run into any more, or something I otherwise think is fishy, should I bring it to someone like you, or merely warn others---or both?
--Lee
The Doctor has outdone himself again with a great new
PSEC circuit running itsself without any power supply:
Lighting about 30 LEDs pretty brightly without any power input.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDl0rXL2NuM
Well Done Dr. Stiffler !
I hope he can show it again running inside a Faraday cage,
so the Naysayers can´t claim that there is a transmitter somewhere in the
background.
Great achievement !
Regards, Stefan.
If you would also watch video #2 or PSEC 2 of 3 you would understand why you suggestion is invalid and has no significance with the PSEC.
as far as I understand, removing the base of the transistor in a transistor oscillation circuit stops the oscillation. It might still somehow function as a rectifier in case an oscillation is fed into the circuit e.g. by an antenna.regarding the base of the transistor... see the 'esaki effect'.
But I always find it pretty useless when someone shows a video or reports a finding without providing the details. Without the schematics and details of the components no useful experiments and no intelligent discussions are possible.schematics and details of the components have been provided... ::) useful experiments and intelligent discussions have ensued. check your reading and comprehension skills...
So, I wait till Dr.Stiffler comes forward with useful info. If he does not want to do that, fine, what can you do besides forgetting the whole thing? The thread has 197 pages without telling anything but claims and riddles.stiffler has already come forward with more than enough info... but it's kind of cumulative. perhaps you should learn to crawl before you attempt to run.
"Hey, look at my videos and read what great thing I have built, but I will not tell you what it is!"
Greetings, Conrad
I do not have a spectrum analyzer, nor do I have a signal generator.
I have had some correspondance with him later with him through his old email adress embarqmail something.
It can be found in his pdf's.
That one that Alien posted is very interesting indeed.
Have you replicated it in any way?
IT IS GREAT TO SEE DR STIFFLER BACK DOING HIS GREAT WORK AGAIN.Hi. is any schematic of this circuit ?
THANKS FOR SHARING DR STIFFLER.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TC7GgyWluY
Hi. is any schematic of this circuit ?
thanks for reply ;)
Lidmotor did a partial replication
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNMsynVKngo
I think the bubbles might be explainable if we consider that the charge going on to the LED is not conventional electricity. If it is pure dieclectricity, this may be responsible for fracturing the water's molecular bonds - hence the bubbles.Why invent new theories when conventional theories perfectly explain the effect while explaining many others?
Bob
Conventional theories are theories. They are formulated within a prevailing EM theory paradigm. No doubt bubbles on the electrodes can be explained from within the conventional EM paradigm and its prevailing theories.
Eric Dollard and Tom Brown showed resonance in RLC systems separating magnetism from dielectricity. The implications for this demonstration are far reaching. One of them is the fracturing of water. Think about Stan Meyer's work.
See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc&t=1385s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc&t=1385s)
WHY IS IT SAD.? HE WAS LIVING AND HE DIED. BUT HE SHARED EVERYTHING HE HAD TO SHAREI agree. While sad that he is gone, he enriched our knowledge by generously sharing his research. May he be richly rewarded in the next life.
FREELY TO US WHO WANT TO LEARN..THANK YOU MR RONALD STIFFLER, MAY OUR EVER LOVING
GOD OF ALL CREATIONS OPEN THE DOOR OF PARADISE TO YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
I agree. While sad that he is gone, he enriched our knowledge by generously sharing his research. May he be richly rewarded in the next life.
Two things I find very important in Doc's work:
- Spatial Self Resonant Frequency
- Pinging the spatio-temporal lattice and cohering a charge from its response
Stiffler showed that Spatial Self Resonant Frequency was crucial to his Spatial Energy Coherer's functioning. It is clear that the SEC is an open system - that is, it interacts with the ambient environment to draw (cohere) charge from it and into his circuit.
So how can we apply the concept of spatial self resonant frequency to continue Doc Stiffler's work of cohering charge from the local environment?
Bob
Bob:Thanks Nick. I'll check 'em out!
As you may know, I had followed the Docs videos and replication when he came back on the scene. I built up a crystal oscillator, connected to an L3 coil, which was connected to one "diode loop" or two loops, and also to a gutted 8.5w led, or two of those led bulbs in series. Although I agree that that set up was one of the most efficient as far as current consumption, it did drain my two 12v 7ah batteries running the oscillator at 24v, fairly quickly. I could not make it self run by connecting part of the output back to the input. And that was where I stopped, for now. If you are interested in my tests on the diode loops, and AC led bulbs, please check my youtube channel.
Just search for Nick Zec, or you can click on the link below, to watch my last video. You might want to check out some of the previous videos, as well. https://youtu.be/BZsvtlA_Rgc (https://youtu.be/BZsvtlA_Rgc)
NickZ
I have been in the electronic business for 40 years and i have not seenSeychelles,
a more efficient simple circuit as the SEC.. Just to note there is no such thing a
a close loop system. Ether interacts with every single thing..
Inquorate: Thanks for the video and presentation. Can you provide any proof that the Docs circuits, such as the "secret" diode loop circuit, are able to produce OU, or self running? We can say that any "extra energy" may be coming from the "ambient". But, what extra energy? Can any of this supposed extra energy be shown, and proven, by input to output measurements? As I have not seen this to be the case, as yet. After several months work on these circuits. If no extra energy can be shown, up to now. What is the point?
Inquorate: Thanks for the links. However, I am very familiar with the Docs work, and ideas. I followed him, and replicated some of his last tests, but was not able to observe anything particularly useful. As far as input to output is concerned.
His diode bridge or loop "secret" was also replicated by me, but again, I found little actual useful benefit from the "diode loop" tests.As a higher output caused by the switching diodes used, also causes the input current to raise, as well. So, a very efficient circuit, but, no free lunch.
The question: Is there any real third party proof by real measurements showing OU, or anything to get excited about?
Have you found this site yet ?Dave: That is just a repetition of what had been shown at that time. The diode bridge was not shown there, which was his most important contribution, before he died. His last "energy through the ground" idea was also not shown nor replicated by anyone, to see IF it worked or not.
http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/SECDrivers.htm.html (http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/SECDrivers.htm.html)
One power: Yes, the coil tuning is of upmost importance, to see anything unusual. But, his circuits were anything but simple, to get working right.
Or, has anyone made them self run, or shown any OU after all these years??? Like Inquorate, etz... who says that he knows how and why they work. I asked him to SHOW us, he answers that I waist his time...