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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: hartiberlin on October 11, 2007, 11:28:41 PM

Title: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 11, 2007, 11:28:41 PM
Have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJvFd3pYBnM

Amazing !

I hope Dr. Stiffler will publish the exact circuit.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S:His website is at:
www.stifflerscientific.com
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: FreeEnergy on October 11, 2007, 11:33:05 PM
need a diagram for this  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 11, 2007, 11:46:11 PM
Seems to be a factor of around 170 x more output than input.

If you apply 2 Volts peek to peek via a 10 KOhm resistor
(if it is high frequency, the 10 pF cap mentioned,might just
be conducting..so I neglected it..) so the input power
is around 400 mikroWatts.

The output power is 2.73 Volts x 25 miliamps = 68.25 milliWatts.

So ouput / input is around 170.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 11, 2007, 11:56:34 PM
Quote
The next vid in the next 48 hours will be of great interest. I will post circuits on my web site so that I am covered under my disclaimer for people that try it that do not have the tools or experience to do so. You are a member so check the site...

... can somebody please give me a link to his web site (pm or post) ?

thx, super
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 12:00:04 AM
Okay, here:

http://www.drstiffler.com/

He also invented a super electrolyzer !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 12, 2007, 12:14:53 AM
Thanks Stefan  ;D

... don't know why, but this guy is a little bit suspect to me,
anyway, looking to find his circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 12:41:48 AM
MR. Amos,
he stated, that in series with this signal generator he has a 10 KOhm
resistor and a 10 pF cap.
Assuming the cap will conduct at his used frequency,
there is still the 10 KOhm resistor as a preresistor.
So, 10 KOhm at 2 Volts is 400 mikroWatts,
probably less, beacuse you have to calculate in the duty
cycle.

So do you think you can run the LED this bright with just 400 mikroWatts ?

He stated on his description that this is a blue LED
with 2,73 Volts and 25 mA.

Maybe these are just the normal specs of the LED and
not the actual measured data at the LED, but the LED at least
looks brighter than just driving it with 400 mikroWatts.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 12:53:27 AM
Dr.Stiffler just answered to me regarding the choke:

"It is in series on the drain side. It is necessary."

Regarding the ferrite transformer:

"... it happens to cause the core to ring at the 4th (of 3.58mHz) and the
MOSFET starts up as a parametric pump. I adjust the phase with the FE beads
and the circuit is totally AC under its own power. Complicated to view the
thing, but with care is possible. Has a field around it that is quite large.

This is a core thing and causes a parametric feedback."

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: callanan on October 12, 2007, 01:40:42 AM
This is Sweet.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: TheOne on October 12, 2007, 04:19:13 AM
this is impressive, i would like the plan I try it !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 12, 2007, 04:59:21 AM
Yes. This would be nice. I really want to see a control schematic. It is not difficult to charge small NiCads with the circuit they are driving -also light an LED while doing it but frequency control when disconnecting the batteries must be a trick.

Also he publishes the same opinions I have on time and other subjects. His 'time' in the spotlite is probably limited.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on October 12, 2007, 05:11:33 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 01:05:22 PM
Hans,
this is a thread of dicussion about  the circuit and not a discussion about somebody?s titles

Please concentrate onto the circuit.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 01:15:57 PM
Dr.Stiffler just replied to me(he has no account overhere yet):

>> He stated on his description that this is a blue LED
>> >>with 2,73 Volts and 25 mA.

He may be right from a spec sheet statement, I think mine are spec of 2.76
and 20mA. Yes it is measured across a 1 ohm 1% with a floating digital
scope.

If he is so inclined I would suggest to him that he power one at 400uA and
25mA and see the difference. Additionally he must consider that the input
signal is also limited by the gate capacity of the MOSFET, which is less
than the input cap used.

Looking forward to the skeptics, I think its call jealousy rather than
science.


Regarding downtime of the webservers:
Denial of Service
My web sites have been shut down twice already.

www.drstiffler.com was first followed by www.stifflerscientific.com

Seems like someone is unhappy...

Both sites back up for now.
Title: Feature Page at PESWiki
Post by: sterlinga on October 12, 2007, 07:14:07 PM
I've created a feature page about this here: http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit)

Feel free to use this page to summarize this circuit, its performance, instructions, replications, theories.

Sterling
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 12, 2007, 08:00:10 PM
I received this email from Dr. Stiffler and he asked me to forward it to over here:


Exactly what have I claimed in any of my YouTube videos that should subject
me to what has started with the release of CE4? If one wants to discredit me
or attempt to in some way, fine, that is your option and your right to
opinion or interpretation of fact or non-fact. I have no control over
anyone's thoughts, yet I wonder why people get so upset when someone does
not even make a claim.

What I am very upset about is the perverts that have taken my web sites down
and the ones that capture the YouTube automated response page and try to get
me to go through their covert envelope to obtain my passwords. Hey if you
don't like the video, just don't watch them, there are plenty other funny
ones out there. You do damage to my sites, I get upset, you send covert
redirect email, I get upset, what is your point. Where is you video, put
yours on, go ahead and attempt to discredit me, but stop with the damage.

Before you bring my sites down again, read the reason I closed it off unless
I can track you, the reason is very clear.

I HAVE NOT CLAIMED OU! OU does not exist, the universe has a finite amount
of energy in various forms, some of which we are privileged to currently
understand and use, others that tempt and tease at out logical senses, yet
we can not create energy. All we can do is find, understand and hopefully
make use of the other forms of energy yet untapped and yet only dreamed of.

Give me a break. I don't sell books, cds or anything else to the general
public, except for some pdf papers that are very cheap and the $4 to $5 cost
only covers the conversion from original form to pdf and the sending to
those that want them. IN FACT I do not sell anything on CE4 and will not. If
I can't be allowed to release what I want to, in my way and over the time
period I want, then I have in the past just said its not worth it and closed
it off, giving plenty of info to call me a kook and shame like others
accused of the same.

So whoever you are, "CUT THE CRAP", you don't like, don't look, go pursue
you other interests, I'm not making you do anything and I am not harming
anyone.

It's your choice, take it or leave it on face value. I'm old, retired and
answer only to myself, so put me in whatever envelope you want.
Title: Re: Feature Page at PESWiki
Post by: linda933 on October 12, 2007, 09:34:38 PM
I've created a feature page about this here: http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit (http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit)

Feel free to use this page to summarize this circuit, its performance, instructions, replications, theories.

Sterling

Thanks, Sterling and Stefan for presenting this and giving Dr. Stiffler a safe place to disclose this work.

I hope that Dr. Stiffler will follow up and publish the full schematic and materials details for his blue LED experiment (Video #4).  It looks pretty simple yet seems to have amazing results.  A simple schematic and some information about the special transformer core material and windings, along with some information on the drive frequency would make it possible to replicate this, I would think. 

It would be too sad if he just left us all guessing and speculating after such a neat and mysterious demonstration!

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on October 12, 2007, 09:50:46 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 12, 2007, 10:08:58 PM
and I own a bat, just tell me whose legs need breakin.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on October 13, 2007, 03:22:56 AM
Does anybody know what frequency and waveform he's getting out of the signal generator?

Thanks,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: lancaIV on October 13, 2007, 03:49:32 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 13, 2007, 06:27:18 AM
Can't wait here either for the schematic. I had a neat little toy that met the same description - just a few days ago I turned it off. Apparent charging of batteries and closed loop for days on end (power supply was the same batteries). I walked away one morning with the volts showing at .6 (six tenths) from two series AAA NiCads. I came back that night and they were at 2.6. So I added a flashing LED for load. The batteries were down to .95 the next morning and it ran for two more days before the voltage was so low the oscillator quit.

So, I'm hoping he has a secret he can share.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 13, 2007, 07:11:52 AM
im sure that this is simply a tesla one wire transmision line, hence the free end of the coil. There is no majic frequency he is using, its probably faster than 500kh and im sure he was frequency sweeping to find the sweet spot on his particular coil.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: b0rg13 on October 13, 2007, 09:10:03 AM
So, I'm hoping he has a secret he can share.

is it just me or do secrets only come out when something can be used for war to make a threat(nukes)..or to tax us ?(big list)

..but any way good luck on the secret :)..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: exnihiloest on October 13, 2007, 11:17:15 AM
Thanks Stefan  ;D

... don't know why, but this guy is a little bit suspect to me,
anyway, looking to find his circuit.

Me too. It is extremely easy for a ham radio operator to power any setup at a distance of some meters. You just have to put a resonnant circuit (as this one with the ferrite in the video) near an antenna or near another resonnant circuit connected to your TX.
In video part I, we see the used frequency is 3.57 Mhz which is just in the ham radio band of 80 mtrs. Coincidence?
Without shematics that would allow us to duplicate the circuit, I remain suspicious.




Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 03:53:30 PM
Dr.Stiffler has posted now the circuit at his website:

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

You must login first at:
www.stifflerscientific.com

There are also some scopehots at his website.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 03:55:42 PM
Dr. Stiffler posted this as the parts list:


R1     1 ohm 1% 1/4W Carbon Composition     
R2    10K ohm 1/4W Carbon Film    
R3    50 ohm 1/4W Carbon Film
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: c0mster on October 13, 2007, 04:24:07 PM
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

C
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 04:30:59 PM
Okay,
C2 is 10 pF as he already told us.

The coils B1, B2, B3, B4 are just these
decoupling ferrite beads.

C1 is the cap that stores the "virtual power supply voltage".
I have to watch the video again to see, what kind of cap this was.

D3 is the blue diode with R1 being a shunt resistor to measure the
current through it. ( not seen in the CE4 youtube video)

D1 and D2 are probably the 1N914 he spoke in the first video
or 1 N4148 diodes he spoke of in the second video.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 04:38:47 PM
Here are the scope shots.
Dr.Stiffler gave the okay to copy it to over here.
But he will soon update the page again, so also
have a look at his webpage.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 13, 2007, 04:40:53 PM
Quote
*The statements that this circuit may be a manifestation of Cold Electricity may be in error. Continued testing of the circuit has not detected particular artifacts that should be observed in a 'Cold Electricity' circuit.

hmm, did he revoked his claims about CE ?

Ok, seems that all needed parts can be found in a common cheap radio,
wondering because it is nothing else than a Avramenko setup?!?

 :o
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 05:15:11 PM
Dr.Stiffler just updated his page with added parts list:

R1     1 ohm 1% 1/4W Carbon Composition     
R2    10K ohm 1/4W Carbon Film    
R3    50 ohm 1/4W Carbon Film    
      
   
C2    10pf 500V +/-5% Dipped Silver Mica    
      
D1    1N4148 100VRRM 0.5A (Switching)    
D2    1N4148 100VRRM 0.5A (Switching)    
D3    Blue LED 2.76V @ 20mA    
      
L1    2.2uH, Core Diameter 6.49mm Coil Width2.80mm Wire 0.58mm enamal coated    Picture below


L2    Transistor radio loop antenna coil and core, origin unknown, manufacture unknown most likely China.

59uH free of core +/- 15%
686uH on core +/- 15%

The wire is to multi-strand, size smaller than a human hair, inter-woven with Cambric or Cotton and bundle is corron covered.
   Picture below
   
      
B1,B2,B3,B4    

RF suppression ferrite beads

0.551" Length
0.140" Diameter
0.025" core dis.
   


I guess C1 is the 400 pF cap he spoke of in his first video.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 05:16:50 PM
Here are the 2 pics of
L1
and
L2
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 13, 2007, 08:02:41 PM
who called it??? ONE WIRE TRANSMISION, no point in even looking at this, we already know about it. Tesla did it a while ago, its being done on the pyroclay thread, tesla coils use it. It DOES have OU implications if pulses are short and quick, but maybe 10 posts on teh same topic is good, more people will listen..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 13, 2007, 08:39:05 PM
Dr.Stiffler updated his page further.

Now the missing parts:

C1     0.01uf 1kv +/- 20% ceramic Z5U temperature coefficient


L3     9 turns of 0.018" enamal coated wire over the top and in the center of L2. L2 is covered with one layer of paper tape.
Care when winding, not to tight to damage L2.


M1     2N7000


Attached are the pictures of L3 wound over L2 on the ferrite core
and the circuit  board and the parts locations.






Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 13, 2007, 11:06:18 PM
hmm, i think this guy has really bad problems with his server, can't open the sites again  :(

My tip to him:

Would be good if Dr.Stiffler talks to his provider and let them do the legal work on his
website problem - if it's really a DoS attack!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 14, 2007, 12:21:18 AM
Hmm,
well maybe he is over his
daily traffic limit as this circuit is on page one
on the Freeenergynews website !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 14, 2007, 01:34:00 AM
Dr. Stiffler updated his page again.
Here are the updates:

Plug Board Capacities

The two power rails that are parallel have an inner capacity of 40.8pF, additionally each rail has a capacity to the aluminum back plate. When components are connected they also have an inner strip capacity as indicated.

These capacities are a part of the overall circuit and must be accounted for in its design. If the circuit is not constructed on a similar board with similar capacities then additional capacitance may be required to replace that not supplied by the board.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: sveinutne on October 14, 2007, 10:22:23 AM
It would be more convincing if Dr. Stiffler could remove the two connections to the scope. I know it should not give any power, but it would be better to have no wires going to the board. If it still light up, it must be some radiation he is picking up.
Svein
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Super on October 14, 2007, 01:10:03 PM
hmm, i'm still iffy about this because the frequency is very high (short wave, haarp uses 3,39 mhz).
while doing the test, try to use an faraday cage and no outgoing connections ...

maybe we can use haarp to power the led  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 14, 2007, 06:23:48 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on October 14, 2007, 10:59:05 PM
Well, the video was pretty cool, but now that we have the schematic and parts list, it's easy to see that the circuit is powered by the signal generator.  It's capacitively coupled through C2, bypassing the 10K resistor, and then through the input capacitance of the 2N7000 MOSFET, which is quite high.

R2 keeps the gate-to-source voltage around zero, and the data sheet for that MOSFET (http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/vishay/70226.pdf, for example) shows that the added 1V p-p signal from the signal generator is not enough to make it conduct at all, so capacitive coupling to B4 and L1 is its only function.

The inductances, C1, and other capacitances form a resonant circuit through which the signal generator drives the step-up transformer formed by L2 and L3.

L3 transmits the power to the LED at high voltage through one wire, which is pretty cool, and the D1+D2+D3 circuit picks it up.  I'm not able to analyze this part very well, but I'd guess that it uses the stray capacitiances beween the parts of the breadboard that Dr. Stiffler has already mentioned.

All in all, this circuit is pretty wierd.  I wonder why anyone would build such a thing?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Perraultium on October 14, 2007, 11:37:01 PM
"All in all, this circuit is pretty wierd.  I wonder why anyone would build such a thing?"

Um... Maybe he is searching for a way to create a free energy device? Maybe that search would require something outside the box?

I feel so sorry for Mr. Stiffler. He is so down to earth, experienced and helpful and he asked for nothing in return.

There are people, such as Bruce Perrault claiming they were playing with something like that the other day and writing things like "His time in the spotlight will be short". Wow... That flavor of crazy only comes with one name.

Here is a reality check for Bruce Perrault. Remember the photo of your Perraultium element discovery? You know, when the picture was enlarged turned out to be a lemon with two probes shoved into it?

And you have the balls to question someone else's integrity?

This site is crawling with people like that and I doubt Ron will be helping out any more. Now ask yourself, Are the people that detract without building the circuit just psychos needing attention or do they earn their living making sure nobody credible ever steps out to help? Ask yourself why Hartman does not run them off? He will run off someone like me that exposes con artist and nuts though.

Mr. Stiffler is real, he is credible, he has a great deal to share and he damn sure never discovered Perraultium. Now back off psychos! If you have something to say, say it with a breadboard, meter scope and be prepared to be sliced to pieces if you are wrong or misquoted by others.

Me

"When life hands you lemons, make perraultium. - The high energy drink."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 15, 2007, 12:59:09 AM
Dr. Stiffler somemore notes on his page.
Here they are:

History
 
The immediate questions are: What is this device (circuit)? What can it do? Is it Free Energy? Is it OU?
 
First let me explain my view on a couple of topics that most people have heard or read about at one time or another, they are; OU or Over Unity, FE or Free Energy, COP or Coefficient of Performance.
 
The two that are most relevant to this device are OU and FE, let me explain. The standard meaning applied to OU or Over Unity is that you get back more than you put in. A simple example is you go to the bank and deposit $10 and return another day to withdraw it. The bank gives you back $15, OU in a simplistic form.
 
The concept of FE or Free Energy is that you obtain energy to power your car, home, tv or whatever and do not incur a cost for the energy, zero power bills. In keeping with our first example, you go to a bank you have never deposited money with and they give you $10.
 
Let me now explain my view on Over Unity and Free Energy.
 
In my view of the Universe, it contains a finite amount of Potential Energy, I fully side with the current scientific view that you can not create or destroy energy. Additionally I believe as man continues to evolve and science expands it horizons that we will find many ways to tap into and utilize sources of energy that some only dream of.
 
Man will find doorways to energy sources far exceeding fossil fuels or nuclear sources that currently support our existence. This new energy source will not be Free; it will not fit the definition of Free Energy. In reality man did not pay for fossil fuel sources, but he must pay to obtain them, therein explains why the term Free Energy has no meaning, Fee does not exist, nowhere in the Universe will you ever find Free Energy, you will always have a cost.
 
Now for OU or Over Unity, well again in my opinion this idea is in error. If you think you are getting something for nothing then you have not looked back far enough in the chain of events leading up to the specific observational point in time. Simply stated in a Law derived by Newton, 'For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction'. This most certainly applies to potential energies of all forms, current and hypothetical. Conversion of energy into a kinetic form does indeed ripple in effect both forward and backward in time.
 
So now that I have explained that I do not adhere to the concepts of OU and FE lets move forward with the understanding that OU and FE are erroneous views on what will eventually become a common straight forward method of accessing and using a new form of energy. A form that already exists, that is intimately entwined with all other forms and passes through multiple conversion processes to return to its original potential form after being manifested in a kinetic form.
 
 
Now to this specific circuit and what it does and is.
 
 
 
 
 


Alexander V. Frolov{1} , titled "The Work that is Created by Means of Potential Field", taken from the Report on the International Conference ?New Ideas in Natural Sciences? St.-Petersburg, June 1996.

The paper covered work by it originator S. V. Avramenko{2} , titled "The Measuring of Conduction Current That is Stimulated by Polarization Current",  published in the 'Journal of Russian Physical Society, No# 2, 1991'.

At approximately the same time, (shortly thereafter) JLN Labs{3} ,posted experiments which followed more closely the Avramenko single line transmission work.

 
Some work was also done and available on a website by Stefan Hartmann{4}  ,although these pages appear to no longer be available.
 
Stiffler Scientific, Plasma Power
http://www.drstiffler.com/plasmapwr.asp


Test Equipment (used in this research)

Oscilloscopes

Tektronix 2445, Probes - 10:1, 10M/10.8pf P/N P6131
Fluke PM3082, Probes - 10:1, 10M/12pf P/N PM9010/091  1:1. 56pf P/N PM9001/001
Velleman HPS40 - 10:1/1:1 integral 10M

DVM

Extech 430
Extech MA200
Fluke 8022A
MasTech M-830B

LCR

Elenco 1810

Signal Generators

Wavetek 181
B&K 3017A

 

Laboratory & Environment

Our lab is located in a bioresearch facility build in the mid-nineties. The lab was not constructed with RF or sensitive electronics work in mind, it therefore has no RF shielding or integral grounding bus bars. The lab is located in close proximity to a 50kw AM transmitter operating on a frequency of 1520kHz. Additionally there are high RF levels from an FM radio station in range of 98mHz. To the best of our knowledge all internal noise generation equipment has been identified and accounted for in the electronics lab.

Normal 120V/240V service wiring within the lab has been identified as a ground loop generator and is accounted for in experiments in which such ground loops will have an effect.

 

{1}Alexander V. Frolov

Power for Nothing


Sources of Excess Energy


Power from Nothing
   

http://keelynet.com/energy/frolov2.htm

http://www.skybooksusa.com/time-travel/physics/enersour.htm

http://www.eskimo.com/~bilb/freenrg/frolov2.txt

 
   

{2} Avramenko's US and foreign Patents.

United States Patent Aug. 15, 2000 Avramenko et al.

also see from November 25, 1993
   

http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?CY=ch&LG=fr&DB=EPODOC&IDX=US6104107&DOC=dcb65d04ab6820d7924a01bf873fe6b65d

http://v3.espacenet.com/origdoc?CY=ch&LG=fr&DB=EPODOC&IDX=WO9323907&DOC=deb45b02a96923dc96560dcb934bf2c269

{3} Avramenko's Free Electrons Pump ( AFEP v1.0)

By Jean-Louis Naudin created on November 1st, 1999 - JLN Labs - Last update November 3rd, 1999

Single-Wire Energy Transmission test By Jean-Louis Naudin created on November 3rd,, 1999 - JLN Labs - Last update November 5th,
   

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep01.htm


http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep01.htm
{4} Stefan Hartmann       http://www.overunity.com
   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 15, 2007, 03:43:31 AM

There are people, such as Bruce Perrault claiming they were playing with something like that the other day and writing things like "His time in the spotlight will be short". Wow... That flavor of crazy only comes with one name.


I have no idea who this Bruce Perrault is but I am the one that made the statement about spotlights. This was not made to defame the man. I don't know him. The reason for it was because his website contents are in agreement with my thoughts and beliefs AND previous experimental results. Those thoughts and beliefs have certainly turned the lights off for me and done the same to many others.

As far as posting very little experimental detail - why should I bother repeating something I did 20+ years ago? If you don't believe something said then either ignore it or prove/disprove it to yourself.

the B and the P in BEP stands for something you wouldn't understand and most likley wouldn't believe. As in callsigns - BEP was a substation of a network. The B stood for Berlin............

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fleubis on October 15, 2007, 05:21:45 AM
I'm a bit confused about the use of Barium in  this device. Please  correct  me if  I'm wrong, but the only Barium I see in this device is in the ferrite tuning beads.  Right? The old radio antennas contain no Barium, or do they? Am now  trying to source that very thin multi-conductor wire used in the coils....not so  easy to find. Will  post a source when I find one.

Would like to remind everyone of Dr. Stiffler's clear disclaimer about his environment NOT being setup with proper shielding and grounding, and the presence of a nearby radio transmitter might easily explain everything.

James 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: redorman on October 15, 2007, 05:58:17 PM
The way I see it, the key to the powering of the bulb IS the signal generator.  The energy of several (or many, depending) low power pulses from the signal generator get stored and then released as one relatively large pulse to blink the LED or lamp.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 06:16:34 PM
I think people are confusing and assuming things that are not claimed by Dr. Stiffler. Part of the problem is, from the time we watch the video to the time we type, we modify what may be claimed.

Best to watch the video again and see what is claimed. Look at the scope shots and look at things like frequency and voltage and then replicate it and see how it works for you.

The part of this last video that confused me is that he did not use the 90 degree opposed secondary coil, instead used three coils on the ferrite.

Another thing that may be confusing is that he called the video CE4 (Cold electricity 4) but in a previous video he said that the key to creating cold electricity was the counter opposed coil on a barium ferrite core.

I am sure that with time and patience all these issues will be resolved. I am looking for a barium ferrite cores and the closest thing I can find is barium ferrite magnets.

Mostly what the video showed me is the use of the plug at the end of the circuit which he clearly cites to the inventor. It is all good.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 06:43:46 PM
Here is something else I found interesting relative to an experiment he (Stiffler) did on his web site regarding electrolysis using just the input from a single LED powered by a cold electric barium ferrite core setup.

It appears that barium resonates at almost exactly ten times the resonate frequency of hydrogen (H1)

Mr. Stiffler talked about not being interested in recreating the Meyer process and instead developed the CREC - Charge recycle circuit which does work as advertised. Then while doing that experiment where a tiny bit of light was cracking water, he asked the question (paraphrasing) "Is this related to the Meyer process"

I about jumped out of my chair when I noticed that the two elements had such a close match.

Source of information was Texas Nuclear Magnetic Resonance something or another - Sorry, I lost the URL.

Note: Resonance frequencies are quoted relative to a resonance
frequency of exactly 100 MHz for 1H.

Isotope: 1H

Spin:                         1/2
Natural abunance:             99.985%
Magnetogyric ratio (rad/T s): 26.7520 x 10^7
Relative receptivity:         1.00
Magnetic moment               4.83724
Quadrupole moment Q/m(2)      0
Resonance frequency           100,200 and 300 MHz

Isotope: 135Ba

Spin:                         3/2
Natural abunance:             6.59 %
Magnetogyric ratio (rad/T s): 2.671 x 10^7
Relative receptivity:         3.28 x 10^-4
Magnetic moment               1.080
Quadrupole moment Q/m(2)      0.18
Resonance frequency           9.984 MHz

This indicates, if I understand correctly, that barium resonates at 998.4 MHZ and hydrogen at 100MHZ
Almost a perfect harmonic.

I know this much for sure, Meyers "State Space Change" could have been referring to the state change of a field effect transistor and perhaps a barium vessel surrounding the anode may have something to do with that patent and I am damn sure going to be playing with it soon!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 07:17:42 PM
I'm a bit confused about the use of Barium in  this device. Please  correct  me if  I'm wrong, but the only Barium I see in this device is in the ferrite tuning beads.  Right? The old radio antennas contain no Barium, or do they? Am now  trying to source that very thin multi-conductor wire used in the coils....not so  easy to find. Will  post a source when I find one.

Would like to remind everyone of Dr. Stiffler's clear disclaimer about his environment NOT being setup with proper shielding and grounding, and the presence of a nearby radio transmitter might easily explain everything.

James 

Thin multi-strand  wire is called litz wire and it can be found on the web.

Ferrite tuning beads? No those are ferrite beads for decoupling and are easy to find but they do not do tuning. If anything, they DE-tune.

The antenna core looks like the same cores used in earlier videos and he stated that they were barium cores from an AM radio probably produced in China. I remember the little AM raidios from 20-30 years ago did have a core like that in them.

Hope that helps
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spewing on October 15, 2007, 08:08:39 PM
where is the schematic? the working schematic? why has it not been posted, why do i go in circles looking for it??? why talk about the parts used and how it is possibly constructed? why not just post the schematic so we can test it????

what is the guy claiming? if it is overunity or power from electronic waves in the air, or a resonance inside a LC, whatever it maybe why has he not came into this overunity forum of the world and laid the schematic down like i did?

post after post and still talk, what are you all doing, trying to figure out how he has it working? i don't understand where this thread is going, someone please explain.

the peskwikia sites his videos on youtube direct you to goto, why is there no schematic there? it directs you here, and still no schematic, i no theres one a few pages back on this thread, the inductors are not listed in detail etc,,,, no point wasting time if you dont know how to assemble it.

can someone explain what is going on here??? 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 08:35:49 PM
@ Spewing

Why don't you start at the beginning of the thread and start reading. Than at about page two you will see the schematic. You might just run into some links to video and his web site along the way too.

To just jump to the end and demand everyone fill you in on what you are too lazy to read is insulting and makes you look like a child.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spewing on October 15, 2007, 08:41:21 PM
@ Spewing

Why don't you start at the beginning of the thread and start reading. Than at about page two you will see the schematic. You might just run into some links to video and his web site along the way too.

To just jump to the end and demand everyone fill you in on what you are too lazy to read is insulting and makes you look like a child.

Lazy??? i have read the threads, i have went to his website wich has no schematic, only stuff to by, and i have also watched his videos, i don't see anything other than "a video".

i also tried to registor over there at his site but for some reasone you cant, dont work.

i would have not posted, but i am agravated that i have watched the videos read the thread and whent to his site, still i have found nothing, where is the meet and potato's ????

thats all i was asking...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 08:50:40 PM
"Lazy??? i have read the threads, i have went to his website wich has no schematic, only stuff to by, and i have also watched his videos, i don't see anything other than "a video

i also tried to registor over there at his site but for some reasone you cant, dont work.

i would have not posted, but i am agravated that i have watched the videos read the thread and whent to his site, still i have found nothing, where is the meet and potato's ????

thats all i was asking... "


1. If you had read the thread, you would have seen the schematic on page 2.
2. If you had watched the videos, you would have know what is claimed.
3. If you had gone to the web site, registered, waited to be approved and then logged in you would have know anything else that is known.

I used the term lazy to be kind. Don't make me get all medieval on you ass. :-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spewing on October 15, 2007, 08:57:08 PM
well, a few post up if you would have read, you would see that i did know there was a schematic on page 2, his website said it was not allowing anyone to registor, so i assume that is fixed now?

"Maybe the other HALF of the circuit is on his website", And yes i know what he is claiming, but cold energy and Overunity is 2 different things, i guess he is getting overunity with cold energy with a resonating frequency fast charging a capacitor. just wanted to confirm, no need to go hostile

Thank you...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on October 15, 2007, 09:28:41 PM
G'day all,

Periodic table, resonant frequencies:

http://www.eclipse.net/~numare/nsinmrpt.htm

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 15, 2007, 09:47:02 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 12:04:53 AM
The schematic is here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg54343.html#msg54343

Read the whole thread without hectic... ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 16, 2007, 01:27:08 AM
@ mramos

I assume by the note at the end you saw that relative to 1H part?

I don't know if this has anything to do with OU or Meyer or anything at all but I thought that is was interesting and perhaps someone can beat me to answering the question.

Is the water itself triggering the state change of a transistor?
I.e., was the movable probe in the Meyer notes a transistor on a stick with the gate exposed to the water?
Was the chamber itself surrounded by a barium ferrite core?

In the photos of the final Meyer water car, there is a large space between between the water cavity and the outside device. I have been puzzled by what occupied that space.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 02:01:37 AM
Dr. Stiffler updated his page again.

Here are the new parts:

Circuit Comments

B1,B2,B2 & B4 with C1 form a delay line.

Removal of C1 will stop circuit operation and extinguish the LED.
Replacing C1 with a wire will reduce the LED output to barely visible or extinguished.
Removal of B1,B2,B2 & B4 and C1 and replacing with a short wire will extinguish the LED.

Pay special attention to the supplied scope pictures of this circuit in operation and not that the Peak-to-Peak voltage present at the junction (+rail) of B2 and L2 is ~8 (Scope{4}) volts. This voltage should always be higher than the input when the circuit is properly tuned into operational mode.

Tuning for maximum power at the LED is subjective if you use human visual reference for the amount of LED light output. This can get you close, but is not the most accurate way to find the three peaks available. I use a Lutron light meter and a black isolation tube around the LED. The circuit can be tuned for maximum light output, although this can also be in error due to the way LED's react to excitation at different frequencies, yet this can be an acceptable preliminary observation.

The most accurate I have found so far is using a small form factor (small size and mass) DVM (accuracy not important) with leads as short as possible connected across a 10k ohm resistor, bridged with a 5uf capacitor at the output of the rectifiers. With this configuration one can tune input for maximum voltage indication. The down side to this method is that the added L and C of the meter and connections do indeed shift the optimal peaks.

During tuning using both of the methods indicated above, the peaks (excluding LED frequency response) fall with in ~+/- 200khz of each other.

The peak frequencies have been derived by scope and counter measurement, with the most accurate being the frequency counter. This circuit appears to 'Hunt' and therefore even the counter cannot be considered totally accurate, as the readings will vary over many kilohertz as the circuit 'Hunts' for stability.

The following chart shows the frequency versus relative power from a test run on Circuit (4), using the DVM method of measurement and reading the frequency with a counter with 0.001% accuracy.

The following table shows the measured frequency peaks and their first three harmonics.

Measured (MHz)        3.9866     10.4230        12.3340
X2                        7.9732      20.8460     24.6680
X3                        11.9598    31.2690    37.0020
X4                        15.9464    41.6920    49.3360


It is noted at this point that in the scope traces (for #4) included below show scope-measured frequencies of 6.99MHz, 7.14MHz and 10MHz. The trace was not expanded as it should have been to obtain a more accurate reading, yet there can be seen a correlation with the counter readings.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 02:11:02 AM
Dr. Stiffler just did send me a link,
where you can buy the ferrite core and the
coil around it on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150089628196

He further said:

"Be aware that not all coils are created equal. Out of 15 I have ten that
work? May be due to the material content."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spewing on October 16, 2007, 02:42:08 AM
cool
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: minesapint on October 16, 2007, 05:20:24 PM
Sorry to burst the bubble....

This is not overunity.

What your are doing is using a tuned circuit to pick up RF from a strong local radio station.
Couple of years ago a HAM radio friend of mine set up a similar circuit and powered a LED, charge ni-cads etc...
Ok so he was probably caused a huge RF shadow across Reading (west of London) at the time!!!!

Put it in a faraday cage and see if it still works or find out what the tuned frequency is and see if theres a local station close to it.




Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 16, 2007, 05:36:07 PM
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOxvveTWPA
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 16, 2007, 05:43:27 PM
@minesapint

I think you are off base, while this is possible, the fact that he is sending power through one wire screams longitudinal waves, but, I think that the pulses are not shapr enough to create the aplitude to see the wire cutting trick. Remember, the on and off as quick as possible equates to amplitude in longitudinal waves.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 07:36:39 PM
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOxvveTWPA

Hi Ron,
very well done !
Now we can actually see the
power amplification and it is not
caused by the local radio station !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 16, 2007, 07:45:09 PM
I just get emal from Dr Stifler and I ask him where was transistor.

He tell me, no need transistor and only one wire each coil.

What this this is?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on October 16, 2007, 07:59:59 PM
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOxvveTWPA


Maybe yes, maybe no. Time will tell.
What I know is that I can measure about 2,7V and above on a properly tuned very small antenna and I?m not living next to a 50kW station.
I also know that any radio will work just fine as long as its antenna is not caged. In the above movie I see at least two wires that both may act as antennas. Why don?t they light the led by themselves? Because they are not tuned on the proper frequency.

Just some thoughts. Like I said, time will tell.

Tinu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 16, 2007, 08:00:10 PM
This is becoming another one of these moving target projects.  While it is nice that the invention has been simplified now to an extreme degree (looks like three or four total parts now), it is a bit hard to follow.  We need a new schematic, it looks like...and some scope shots taken in real time while the LED is running, showing the generator output.

Could it be the copper traces in the plug-board are acting as quarter-wave lines and providing transformer action so the rf gen sees a low impedance and thus puts out more power?  Probably the frequency is too low for that...the quarter waves would be much longer...

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on October 16, 2007, 08:03:53 PM
Maybe you ham xmitter idea is busted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZOxvveTWPA

Hi Ron,
very well done !
Now we can actually see the
power amplification and it is not
caused by the local radio station !

To quote a famous member here, these are things that make you go hummmmm?  ;D

Please see the above.

Tinu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 16, 2007, 08:13:19 PM
schematic:

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 16, 2007, 08:20:26 PM
Dear All,

Some weeks ago I had the pleasure to measure
the input transformer of a legendary 60ties tube preamplifer:
V76 from tab/telefunken.
This transformer is straight overunity - which
reflects in its price on the retail market.
Its so overunity that the original manufactorer refuses
to repair or rebuild the stuff. (somehow the special machinery
get lost)
By replacing the transformer of this circuit with
the v76 transformer - you get ultimate overunity.
believe me  ;-)
It should be even possible to blow the LED  and get some arc?s.
We can even remove one wire of the primary coil if we keep the
mu-metal shield grounded. (famous shielded 2 pin transformer)

Measuring the input resistance of such transformers
leaves high precision multimeters in an astonished mood
for up to 6hrs (if daylight).

believe me ;-)

(sorry, couldn?t resist being funny, btw: great transformer)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 16, 2007, 08:48:20 PM
According to their site:

http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id21.html

They have rebuilt at least one of them...
Do you have a reference for an accurate measurements showing overunity.

Otherwise, why should anyone believe someone whose  high precision multimeter languishes in an astonished mood for up to 6hrs (if daylight).?

BTW -- what does a Clarke-Hess power analyzer do in such a circumstance ?

Answer - grins and winks at the silliness of high precision multimeters  ; -)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 09:15:04 PM
schematic:




Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...


Hmm, well, when pondering more about this circuit
we have to measure also the output current of the signal
generator and its voltage in both cases...

This circuit surely could also work as an impedance matcher
for the LED and as the LED has a different impedance
directly connected to the signal generator,
the impedances could be mismatched and the LED
will light weaker.

But when you apply this LC network with the ferrite core,
you could match the impedance better...
So there still needs to be done very exact measurements
of the output power of the signal generator in both shown cases
until one could tell a final conclusion.

Not too easy to do these measurements at these low
power levels and at this RF frequency of around 10Mhz !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 16, 2007, 09:27:10 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 16, 2007, 09:40:21 PM
schematic:




Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...



I just got a message from Dr.Stiffler stating it is just a 50 ohm
load resistor for the signal generator to match the impedance.

Well in this case it seems more likely,
that we really see here more energy out than in.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 12:22:39 AM
I was just reading over this thread to see if I missed something and I hope Dr. Stiffler reads this post.

I have successfully recreated one wire transmision, and the circuit will never display RE cold effects with an AC signal that floats over and under 0 volts. If yo have a normal AC signal, you will be both sucking and emiting energy from the enviroment. What you need is positive pulses only, I would do this with a single rectifier diode or with the generator set to "pulse" mode.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 12:25:12 AM
read this, the writings of Frolov led me to my one wire transmision circuit, and he explains the perameters needed very clearly. this was an invlauble document.

http://keelynet.com/energy/frolov1.htm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 17, 2007, 12:31:26 AM
schematic:




Hmm, are you sure this is the circuit ?
I see still a resistor connected to the black connector holder,
which comes from the signal generator...



I just got a message from Dr.Stiffler stating it is just a 50 ohm
load resistor for the signal generator to match the impedance.

Well in this case it seems more likely,
that we really see here more energy out than in.

I don't see how identifying a fifty ohm terminating resistor disproves any theory that the sig gen is supplying the power to light the LED.  We still need to see a direct scope shot or other accurate power or current measurement on the signal being supplied by the generator. 

Just because there is a fifty ohm resistor stuck on the signal doesn't mean it (the input signal) might not be "seeing" five or ten ohms total including whatever loading impedance the coil(s) and LED circuit impose in parallel.  Many if not all quality sig gens can pump big current into high VSWR loads well below 50 ohms!  Many are guaranteed to run into 20 or 30:1 VSWRs at any phase angle.  That could be a total complex load as low as two ohms or less.

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 17, 2007, 12:40:43 AM
Linda sez:  "Just because there is a fifty ohm resistor stuck on the signal doesn't mean it (the input signal) might not be "seeing" five or ten ohms total including whatever loading impedance the coil(s) and LED circuit impose in parallel.  Many if not all quality sig gens can pump big current into high VSWR loads well below 50 ohms!"

So what you are saying, in effect, is that Dr. Stiffler cannot measure and match impedance - and consequently he is expending all of this effort - and sacrificing 40 years of experience in RF engineering in order to trick some unsuspecting circuit builders?

Most of the commentators here (if they are not waiting for parts) have wasted more time in belittling this effort than they would have expended to replicate it and show their own results.

Including me  ;-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 17, 2007, 12:54:44 AM
There is no belittling going on at least in my mind.  What is happening is a normal, standard, scientific effort to try to explain what appears to be happening using only purely conventional known phenomena.  Why is this considered to be taboo and odd and mean, somehow?  99.9999999% of all purported and reported OU and "free energy" has turned out to be measurement error so far.

That's what we do as researchers if we are scientific about it.  We seek to find an explanation that fits the facts!  Before concluding that excess energy or free energy is being observed, doesn't it make common sense to measure the input and output energy accurately?  At least? 

Let's keep our feet on the ground here, people!  Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 17, 2007, 01:42:45 AM
We would need 4 scopeshots to determine
the power out / power in relationship:

1. Voltage at the 50 Ohm resistor
2. voltage at a 1 Ohm shunt going to the 50 Ohm resistor

3. Voltage at the LED
4. current through the LED via a 1 Ohm shunt


Then we can definately say, what is going on.

of course all sweep times usec/div
and amplifier settings must be provided : Volts/div.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 17, 2007, 02:03:00 AM
linda933: "Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?"

Indeed. There are many "attitudes" being displayed here, and without making value judgments, it would seem that yours is based in Academia or from a Corporate-Culture where cost and equipment is no object. Lovely - but that is not the case here, where expediency and practicality often dictate that more can be accomplished with a handful of replication attempts costing a few hundred $ each- than with the extraordinary expense of  whizz-bang 1000X probes to see what's going on without scaring away the genie doing the work (as a colleague has opined) -- maybe a P6015a, 100M impedence, 3 pF capacitance, 75 MHz bandwidth (shabby bandwidth but enough for this application). Darn things are kind of expensive, unfortunately: http://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/pdfs/TEK_P6015A,P5100,P5102,P5120.pdf

Wish Ron and the rest of us had the luxury of that step first - but in point of fact a totally self-powering device is even more impressive than meter readings that someone will always quibble over anyway - even if requires more hands-on work and repetitive disappointment than what "should be" the case in a perfect world of adequate funding... and even if this one, like most of the rest - does not pan out. About the only hope for a major contribution from those of us without Corportate, National Lab or Acedemic sponsorship is to ferret out that one-in-a-million anomaly which they stumble on - hopefully a crack in the LoT - and pursue that with a vengeance- and with the help of other hands-on types who are similarly inspired.

Given the urgency of the energy crisis, I see no other hope but to pursue every "decent" lead and every reported anomaly- even if 999,9999 out of a million do not pan out. This one appears to be on the upper-end of that 'decency' range, as of now - your (imaginary?)  high-current SigGens notwithstanding...

Jones


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 17, 2007, 02:22:17 AM
linda933: "Leaping to glorious "mysterious energy" conclusions without first making any accurate measurements whatsoever seems to be in very much vogue here!  I'm not suggesting anyone is trying to fool anyone...it just seems like the avoidance of accurate measurement is rampant and a "cornerstone" in so many of these projects!  What's up with that attitude?"

Indeed. There are many "attitudes" being displayed here, and without making value judgments, it would seem that yours is based in Academia or from a Corporate-Culture where cost and equipment is no object. Lovely - but that is not the case here, where expediency and practicality often dictate that more can be accomplished with a handful of replication attempts costing a few hundred $ each- than with the extraordinary expense of  whizz-bang 1000X probes to see what's going on without scaring away the genie doing the work (as a colleague has opined) -- maybe a P6015a, 100M impedence, 3 pF capacitance, 75 MHz bandwidth (shabby bandwidth but enough for this application). Darn things are kind of expensive, unfortunately: http://www.valuetronics.com/vt/assets/pdfs/TEK_P6015A,P5100,P5102,P5120.pdf

Wish Ron and the rest of us had the luxury of that step first - but in point of fact a totally self-powering device is even more impressive than meter readings that someone will always quibble over anyway - even if requires more hands-on work and repetitive disappointment than what "should be" the case in a perfect world of adequate funding... and even if this one, like most of the rest - does not pan out. About the only hope for a major contribution from those of us without Corportate, National Lab or Acedemic sponsorship is to ferret out that one-in-a-million anomaly which they stumble on - hopefully a crack in the LoT - and pursue that with a vengeance- and with the help of other hands-on types who are similarly inspired.

Given the urgency of the energy crisis, I see no other hope but to pursue every "decent" lead and every reported anomaly- even if 999,9999 out of a million do not pan out. This one appears to be on the upper-end of that 'decency' range, as of now - your (imaginary?)  high-current SigGens notwithstanding...

Jones




I'm not trying to discourage replications; far from it.  Why are you using really bad arguments and excuses to try to discourage making measurements?  Whatever gave you the idea a special 1000X high voltage probe would be needed?  We are talking a measly 10MHz and a couple of Volts here!  All I'm suggesting is to stick a couple of one ohm resistors (take ten ten ohm 1% surface mount types in parallel for high accuracy and super-low inductance) in the circuit and take a peek at how much current is flowing in the input and the output.  Total cost maybe $3.00...use standard run-of-the-mill 10X probes and any low-cost low-bandwidth 'scope. 

In order to be of any use in solving real energy needs, I'm afraid any workable approach will have to stand up to actual measurements unless it can be freed from needing any external input at all!  Just a fact of life, not really anything to get upset about.  Don't you think so, really?

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 03:21:11 AM
What happens ?

Imagine that the beads have a low resistance for
the 10MHz switching frequency and high resistance
for the L1,L2,..LED discharging frequency (lets say 50- 100MHz).
On switching off the DC(<=10MHz) part of the L1,L2 reverse voltage charges C1,
the AC part(>=10MHz) is consumed via L2,LED.
This means the pulse generator operates against the negative
voltage of C1 which might be up to 100 Volts.
The pulse generator works with 10kOhm against this
voltage, resulting in a current of 10mA peak - which is the
approx. energy needed to operate the LED.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 17, 2007, 03:35:46 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 11:27:59 AM
If we stop looking at the trees and look at the forest for a moment, there is not enough current to saturate that huge chunk of core mass in the slightest. Ron states it won't work without the core and there is only one wire off the secondary to boot. Where is the 25ma of induction?

As I pointed out in my mail above - the 25mA are from the generator.
"Normally" this energy cannot be consumed with 10k input resistance
and 2Vpp. The circuit generates an "inner" negative resonance voltage
which makes the signal generator work against these voltage.
The inner voltage maybe somewhere at 50 V (peak).
This means that the power sucked from the generator is
(50+2)^2 / 10kOhm - which is in the some hundred milliwatt range.
This (getting more power from the generator) is achieved by using C1.
L2,L3 transforms the high voltage/low current/100MHz(fundamental) peak pulse into
a low voltage/ high current pulse.
Because of the high frequency/lots of harmonics (probably up to some 100MHz),
its no problem to couple the power using some parasitic capacitor of the breadboard.

The level and art of tricking around with rf circuits is of a high degree.
Discussing the most funny 2048 best rf tricks will keep us busy for years ...
(this was a warning)

Measuring the heat emitted by the 50 Ohm output resistor of the generator
would be the immediate proof (whats going on here)

rgds,

wolfgang
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 17, 2007, 01:23:33 PM
fritz, Hi
How you tell what go into circuit by measure heat on resistor across that is across source and not inline?

I can not do, how?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 03:43:54 PM
OK,

2Vpp square equals 1Vp equals 1Vrms is the generator
voltage without load.
The generator source resistance is 50 Ohms.
The maximum power you can get out is if terminated with
another 50 Ohms.
Means we have a generator with 1Vrms on 100 Ohms gives
10mA output current if terminated)
20mA output current if shorted

You see - even a shorted generator provides less current
as needed for a bright led.

The output resistor of the generator dissipates 20mA^2 * 50 Ohms
 = 20mW. (if shorted)

The LED needs with 25mA@2.73V 68.2kelvin 5mW
Means we would need 68.25mA current from a 1Volt
supply to have equal power.
This 68.25mA would induce a power dissipation of 68mA^2 *50 Ohms
= 232mW on the output resistor.
To have 68.25mA@50 Ohms, you need 3.4125 V on this resistor -
means that the circuit must generate a voltage of -2.41V to
achieve this.

A 1/2 watts resistor can have up to 50 kelvin temperature rise
on nominal load - 500mW.

This means - if happens what I suppose - the generator output resistor
gets measurable hot. - hotter than if generator is shorted.

The 10kOhm resistor should definitly get hot, too.

rgds,

Wolfgang



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 17, 2007, 03:57:25 PM
fritx, Hi again.

What circuit you look at? 10K in parallel with input cap?

He show 1ohm in series with input and only 0,0004 mv acreoss it?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 05:05:47 PM
Nice post, one has to respect a post backed up by numbers.
I did all the math and you are definitely correct in your assessment,
Of the circuit, but I think that something has been missed. I could definitely be wrong on this one, and im sure ill be corrected. But, you cannot just simply stick a 50 ohm resistor across the inputs of the circuit and expect that to solve your impedance matching issues. According to the equations for adding resistances in parallel (counting one resistance as the 50 ohm resistor, and the other as the whole circuit behind it by Theviens Theorem) if you have one low resistance and one extremely high resistance the total resistance will be close to the low resistance, which should be intuitively correct. But I doubt that the resistance of the circuit is very high even with that 10k ohm resistor in place. The resistor is in parallel with the capacitor, and we all know that capacitive reactance is inversely proportional to frequency, and we are driving this set up at high frequency so the electric signal would bypass the 10k resistor. Now there are a lot of inductive elements in the circuit for which the opposite is true, but we would need to know their inductive values to know how many ohms of reactance they have at each frequency.

Basically, what im saying is that the resistive nature of the circuit at each frequency changes, and im not totally convinced that throwing a 50ohm resistor across the inputs will give you accurate enough results to base all of your math on, which by the way was correct, and I wish more people would take the time to work out the numbers! GOOD POST!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 05:27:54 PM
Also this brings up something interesting that I have not thought of before. Many cores have a resonant frequency based off of their physical dimensions, I never really thought about looking for resonant points related to the molecular makeup of the core. What is the resonant frequency of the iron in the core? What if one were to have high power frequencies driven over the same core one at irons frequency and one at bariums frequency, would we see a disassociation of the material much like what Hutchison saw? I have no idea, Im definitely going to have to do some research on this one.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 05:43:17 PM
Well, the video was pretty cool, but now that we have the schematic and parts list, it's easy to see that the circuit is powered by the signal generator.  It's capacitively coupled through C2, bypassing the 10K resistor, and then through the input capacitance of the 2N7000 MOSFET, which is quite high.

R2 keeps the gate-to-source voltage around zero, and the data sheet for that MOSFET (http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/vishay/70226.pdf, for example) shows that the added 1V p-p signal from the signal generator is not enough to make it conduct at all, so capacitive coupling to B4 and L1 is its only function.

The inductances, C1, and other capacitances form a resonant circuit through which the signal generator drives the step-up transformer formed by L2 and L3.

L3 transmits the power to the LED at high voltage through one wire, which is pretty cool, and the D1+D2+D3 circuit picks it up.  I'm not able to analyze this part very well, but I'd guess that it uses the stray capacitiances beween the parts of the breadboard that Dr. Stiffler has already mentioned.

All in all, this circuit is pretty wierd.  I wonder why anyone would build such a thing?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy


I guess alot of what I said was already said.
If this is negative energy, entropy, then we should be able to remove the ?Plug? part of the circuit from the bard, and it will still light the LED distance not really being an issue.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 05:51:31 PM
mmmH,

Lots of things to bring together....
The impedance of the 10pf cap is 318Ohms at 50Meg
and 160Ohms ato 100Meg (thought it would be higher).
So this means a 5mW load which reduces the amount
of resonance voltage needed to suck even more power.

Another thing came to my mind:
The blue LED is operated pulsed with a frequency of
10MHz and a very short pulse duration.
Could be that the visual effect of such operation is
higher than the equivalent rms value DC operation
would be. Even the video camera can make the LED
shine brighter (on the recording).
My instinctive voice tells me that the losses increase
dramatically in this 1N4148/914/LED if operated in the
100 MHz range - a normal 4148 is slow as hell and stores
more charge than it switches (;-)))).
Maybe the state of the art blue LEDs have different behaviour.
So my contribution to that will be that I make an investigation:
Blue LED pulsed vs. DC, measuring the light intensity and
envelope with my highspeed photodiode.
Could be that the secondary voltage is rectified in the diode
itself, the transformed charge stored in the diode, 4148
works just as protection "resistor" hihi, hoho, hihi

rgds,

Wolfgang
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 17, 2007, 05:58:03 PM
armagdn03 HI!

I had it all wrong, I do 50ohms transmitter with 50 ohm line and put 50 ohm load on it. Now I see, it is really 25 ohm, no wonder standing wave there.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 06:03:38 PM
Just to clarify:

Measuring the voltage on the output resistor (inside the
pulse generator) with a scope (using  2 channels vs. gnd)
- or simply measure its temperature - is what I ment.
Output power can be calculated graphically - wouldn?t
trust ANY rms meter in this setup.
Or measure the power consumption of the pulse generator
output stage (DC) with open, shorted, or cirucuit attached... -
and than estimate....

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 17, 2007, 06:45:18 PM
If this type of circuit really does involve so-called "cold electricity" then why would you Fritz (Wolfgang), or anyone else expect a "conventional" meter or scope to give an accurate representation of what is happening?

Let me say up front that I do not know what cold-electricity is, nor do I know if it is a total fiction or not, nor do I know how to measure it otherwise. Until a few days ago, I would probably have chimed-in with the rest of you with a resounding "balderdash- no such thing as cold electricity" refrain.

That is precisely why this circuit begs to be replicated by those coming from differing backgrounds and perspectives. If others see the same thing, then perhaps it will allow a bit more credence, or confidence - to the entire concept of "cold electricity".

Otherwise Wolf and Linda, who are generally correct wrt conventional EE- are spinning their collective wheels in the mud of mainstream-limited-horizons.

Of course, even if cold electricity does not exist, the idea of a SigGen heating a resistor to such a degree is laughable.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 17, 2007, 07:24:08 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 17, 2007, 07:45:38 PM
My definition of cold electricity:

It is when your 10 Watt 1 ohm resistor, wired in series to the test circuit gets noticeably cooler than it should be. You freak out and check it with your IR thermometer and it shows much cooler than the bench area - even though it has been setting there all day and it is carrying current. Then you give up and have a cool one to clean the wild thoughts from your head. (Notice I didn't say 'another cool one'.)

After clarity arrives you decide to keep it to yourself because you are still bruised from the last time you made something like that public for replication.

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 17, 2007, 07:46:10 PM
Let me add one further thing into the mix - i.e. there is a distinct possibility of driving an LED to full brightness with a circuit which indicates absolutely *zero power* (measured with a conventional dedicated power analyzer) yet this circuit need not violate the sacrosanct Laws of Thermodynamics.

Just  today this story appeared in the science press
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/533411/?sc=dwhp

... where an RF circuit is used "cool" a tiny silicon cantilever?  similar to the tuning forks used in 'quartz' watches but smaller ? and vibrating at 7 kHz its natural ?resonant? frequency and not far off from the loopstick. Well, this is a conversion, or transfer of one form of energy to another, and it is conservative - but it can offer some insight on how other resonant circuits might operate to "bootstrap" thermal or natural magnetic vibration into a separate electrical circuit - and give the appearance of overunity, when in fact the circuit is merely taping into a bit of ambient energy, not necessarily thermal.

In this case above the experimenters cooled the miniature lever from room temperature down to -228 C - quite impressive. I mention this experiment in the context of a ferrite core, where an (unnoticed) one degree or less, delta T change in entropy could perhaps- be converted into milliwatts of another form of energy ? We simply do not know what is going on.

Even if this explanation is way-off (it probably is since it is not well-thought out yet) the important point is that there are many hidden sources of ambient energy, there is a massive flux of solar neutrinos, Dirac energy and so on--  and a circuit which "appears" to extract 50 milliwatts from "nowhere" may be limited to whatever can be cohered from the hidden source.

IOW this circuit in question need not violate sacrosanct Laws of Thermodynamics, but it may 'violate' that EE degree, if it is frozen-in-time, and cannot be defrosted (even with RF irradiation ;-)

Jones

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 17, 2007, 07:55:42 PM
Hi All

Hey Stifler not take site down they remove you log in - now very simple yes?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Perraultium on October 17, 2007, 08:11:08 PM
My definition of cold electricity:

It is when your 10 Watt 1 ohm resistor, wired in series to the test circuit gets noticeably cooler than it should be. You freak out and check it with your IR thermometer and it shows much cooler than the bench area - even though it has been setting there all day and it is carrying current. Then you give up and have a cool one to clean the wild thoughts from your head. (Notice I didn't say 'another cool one'.)

After clarity arrives you decide to keep it to yourself because you are still bruised from the last time you made something like that public for replication.

Just my opinion.

Why do you make these posts? You don't answer the question what OU device you have created? You make claims of being experienced but never back them up. Post your cold electricity circuit and I will validate whether it works or not.

Your egocentric need for attention does not serve a useful purpose here. You claim to be from Berlin but seem to use American slang and write like an American.

Now either put up, or shut up mister been there done that.

When life hands you lemons, make Perraultium - The high energy element made from a lemon with two probes shoved into it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 17, 2007, 08:20:53 PM
@Perraultium

'from Berlin'? I don't recall typing that.

Hmmm.... it seems only certain folks are allowed opinion here. Very well. I think I'll create an alias for myself and argue with myself for a while. That should be more productive than picking someones work apart without building it first.

It is obvious you want action. That type of action is best not posted here. Neither is a continuation of this conversation.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 17, 2007, 08:21:04 PM
@ EDORK

Hi - Maybe one more post - He did take down some parts of the site. There was a part about an experiment where he was using his transformer to do electrolysis that was interesting.

He was hanging it out there as people tend to be critical of him and he had nothing to gain. I don't blame him for not wanting to hear from people. He sure does seem like an intelligent and nice person that I could learn a lot from.

What? No comment on the fundamental difference between the Meyer and Stiffler circuit? Compression vs decompression?

Cap, inductor, inductor verses inductor, inductor, cap? I really think the compression aspect of the circuit is something that is overlooked. But then I don't know jack about RF.

BIG OLD EDIT HERE

Hey - his BeFe core electrolyzer circuit is still there. I was wrong. He take down his papers for sale which is a bummer cause I wanted to but them and he did take down the ability to send hi a message.

Which I suppose is a message.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 17, 2007, 08:46:00 PM
If this type of circuit really does involve so-called "cold electricity" then why would you Fritz (Wolfgang), or anyone else expect a "conventional" meter or scope to give an accurate representation of what is happening?

Of course, even if cold electricity does not exist, the idea of a SigGen heating a resistor to such a degree is laughable.

Jones

Well - what goes in must come out and vice versa -
if everything is shielded and nothing degrades during
operation ..... if not - we have a strange effect - if there
is more useable output than input we have overunity.

Using the temperature (generated heat) at termination
resistors is a typical method of measuring rf rms power.
Especially if the frequencies are very high.
The thermal output gives an exact measure for the rms
power involved. I think the equipement used for that is
called calorimeter (!?) not sure.

If a resistor gets hotter than calculated for the maximum
passive load - the unexpected heating gives the evidence
that the generator operates agains an active circuit or against
a back voltage - could be AC or DC.

This gives you a quite short and easy proof - without changing
the original wiring - because everything you connect might operate
as antenna and may emit em radiation.

So measuring the temperature of a resistor is a quite clever rf
measuring technique.

regards,
             Fritz (thank you for pointing out that I  had some nick
                      inconsistence)



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Perraultium on October 17, 2007, 09:06:50 PM
@ BEP

Not looking to start a flame war here but maybe this will refresh your confused memory:


As far as posting very little experimental detail - why should I bother repeating something I did 20+ years ago? If you don't believe something said then either ignore it or prove/disprove it to yourself.

the B and the P in BEP stands for something you wouldn't understand and most likley wouldn't believe. As in callsigns - BEP was a substation of a network. The B stood for Berlin............

And in both instances you suggest that I replicate the OU circuit you won't post. Kind of a catch 22 don't you think?

Oh, and you do go my multiple identities to congratulate and promote yourself and we have watched you do that for years

My comment stands and you stand corrected.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on October 17, 2007, 10:30:08 PM
This really becoming a bore.

I still don't see the word 'from' in front of the word 'Berlin'.

You are insulting someone I don't know thinking he is me.

You say I've suggested you replicate something when I all I've done is try to provide advice (granted I was too loud and free with theories and past experiences in the beginning).

What OU circuit, that I won't post, are you talking about? I've said many times I haven't succeeded in creating OU. Since I allowed my thoughts about this stuff to go public, JUNE THIS YEAR, I haven't succeeded in anything that hasn't already been posted by folks here.

The recent one that I related to this failed after 4 days when I closed the loop (WITH 2 AAA BATTERIES). That is just about as long as the batteries should last. Why should I post scope shots on that?

This is only the second username I have used. The only way that can be confirmed is for Stefan to starting looking at server logs. I'm not going to bother the man about that.

Enough. I have better things to do. What's up? You didn't like my opinion of what a magnetic field was?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 17, 2007, 11:13:17 PM
I think we can all agree this is neither the place nor the time. Respectfully stop please. No hard feelings either way towards anybody.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on October 18, 2007, 05:15:21 AM
All of these circuits have several themes in common. Incidentally i highly suspect that ANY ferrite or even a coil wound around a paper tube will work given enough turns its just a simple transformer and there is no need to go looking for special cores.

For example the bedini circuits use coils and blocking diodes to minimize current drain on the primary but rely on the wheel rotation to produce the coil spikes. Well instead of that this circuit runs the output coil into RF resonance and works very similar to how i suspect the tpu works. Certainly the frequencies used in the couple of megs range are precisely where i would expect these effects to happen given the size of the coils and caps used which is why i suggested several times those banging with audio range pulses may not get anywhere when stable RF is required in the low megs range. In addition the use of open ended coils has been demonstrated many many times and patent in some cases Tesla of course and other like the Russian single wire longitudinal transmission system which has an open collector coil and the German scalar wave demo which also a simple PCB 200:1 transformer running to open collector Xmas tree ball antenna :) 
The latter for those that seen that video use 4.2 meg RF carrier and i think 7 megs to produce the scalar and the received energy has been calculated and replicated to be a least 180% and in some cases reportedly 1000%. Now in each case the skeptics argue that the input power is not measured properly to cover the suggested output power and John Bedini followers know this problem all too well despite the fact it been shown several times that an RF generator fed into a wave guide of at least 3 nodes will produce longitudinal scalar waves and the output voltage AND current is higher at the output even when fed into a carbon resistor and temp calculated.  Now the problem with all these circuits is there is no feedback and the excess power tends to be very low.  There will always be loses but non of the useful gain is fed back to the input. There is no such thing as a lossless circuit his control circuit and coils may need 50 or 100 Milli amp to run all the time. Only the tpu can be seen to have true feedback because once you work out how to do this the device is then free running and the arguments then change from "he is not measuring the input correctly" to "must have a dozen pp3 batteries inside".

Likewise its no accident that Meyers water split almost certainly used a Bedini open collector type circuit floating output coil connected to resonant tubes through wave guide longitudinal chokes setup as nodes. When you do this and everything rings just right the power on the tubes will appear MUCH more then an equivalent DC circuit. Its unlikely he ever made a self powered tpu but very likely he achieved gains of over 500% compared to DC.

So these circuits are real they do exist but for most of the they don't concern anyone too much as they have little real practical use other then lab tests and if they threaten to leave the lab then MIB pop round.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 18, 2007, 04:32:46 PM
Now he be funny guy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6shraRAYCw
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 18, 2007, 05:00:45 PM
Very good post, everything you mentioned does have all of that in common. But lets not say they have no practical use??..I think that maybe sending energy to any distant point down one wire without losses is a pretty good practical use.  And if you are correct, then the feedback could be built into the system, and suddenly you have something similar to a TPU just disguised as something else.

Also, Faster frequencies are only one way to go about this. The goal is to compress and decompress the electron gas inside the conductor before it moves, we don?t have to go faster and faster though, we can also restrict the movement of the electrons, and use dielectrics instead of conductors. Ones with a high enough K values will have nice springy electron gas clouds that are very responsive, and will work even at lower frequencies. Also, we cannot be using sine wave frequencies! This is known, they are too soft and far from abrupt. Look at everybody who has successfully done one wire transmission, where they using sine waves? Or were they using a spark gap or pulse generator? Stiffler is an exception, but he is in the MHz range, Frolov has accomplished the same but at a 10Khz range, using pulses. These pulses are strong enough to rip electrons from neutral metal object.

Plus you will never see the electron sucking effect if you are using waves that oscillate between negative and positive, then you set up a situation where your one wire is sucking electrons from neutral metal, and giving them back in the same spark. We only want to collect them, one direction. This means using dc pulsed power.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 18, 2007, 05:23:50 PM
The cat is scratching to get out of Schr?dinger's bag...

EXCELLENT new vid with some cynical humor from Ron Stiffler (in response to negative quips by some naysayers) will be up on YouTube very soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6shraRAYCw

Dr.S keeps chopping off the skeptic's legs from under them, and they are now grasping at straws.

What will be their next objection to the looming possibility that there is new player in the field of EE: "cold electricity" ...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 18, 2007, 06:44:15 PM
Wow,
now it is clear that really the ferrite cores do the power
amplification.
Just using one wire would not be possible to do this otherwise !

The on/off  of the LEDs ir probably done by tuning the frequency
a bit up and down and each core has a slightly different resonance frequency
and Q factor, so be detuning too far away one LED is already going out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 18, 2007, 07:24:09 PM
DARN! i wish I could see the video, im at work though and my world is filtered.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tao on October 18, 2007, 07:48:55 PM
Thats better, BUT, it's time he did some real LOOPING or small battery testing.

Avramenko himself could send 1 KW down a single wire easily, even through non conductors, but that is TRANSPORT.

I reference Avramenko, because Stiffler is showing only the single wire connecting to his circuit and almost implying that because of this 1 wire, OU is evident. I am only saying, sure, there might very well be OU, and even OU in Avramenko's setups (WHEN CONFIGURED RIGHT), but until we get something more concrete like powering his circuit off a very small battery for a long time, or looping, then his LED lighting effect might be nothing other than simple Avramenko 1 wire energy transmission.

2 cents for now...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 18, 2007, 08:12:48 PM
Well, I forgot to see,
that he did not show the amplitude driving this time
the circuit, so I assumed, he still used only 1 or 2 Volts...
but we don?t know this now...so TAO is right,
it depends on the amplitude on the one wire, if we see
something special here or, if it is just a one wire power
transmission ala Avramenko.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 18, 2007, 10:52:30 PM
.....
Even the "shield" used is only a poor "electric" shield.
The ferrite coil is a "magnetic" antenna.
Even the "input" wire might catch enough em -....

What I want to see:

This circuit, soldered together in a "compressed" way,
hanging from the ceiling of an absorber hall with a nylon wire
(1m), input supplied via a single(not shielded wire) - 3m long,
connected to a pulse generate with a symmetric output
(or a balun) attached right at the generator; no other equipement
in the room.
...
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 18, 2007, 11:10:22 PM
...
Even a not properly grounded pulse generator
could induce the needed energy.
-> generator ground + signal "riding" - means
coupled by parasitic capacity to line voltage.

The "single" wire led (grounded by the fingers
of the experimenter) - would act like a
screwdriver with discharge lamp as used by
electricians ...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on October 19, 2007, 06:46:39 AM
I think its pretty neat lets face it he has demonstrated more then anyone else in this forum especially against those running power supplies of 12 volts and 6 amps lighting bulbs and claiming they are getting extracted power LOL.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 19, 2007, 04:38:50 PM
Self-power or earth power?

...or Dr. Stiffler's magnetic personality?

Hey folks - he is being a little cute here, but if it
has not dawned on you yet- this is the most important
video on free energy that any "earthling" has ever witnessed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdJm9QCVJHY

Someone better call an ambulance for Fritz - he looks quite ill and
possibly has choked on something ;-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on October 19, 2007, 05:27:22 PM
There appears to be a 'wire' of some nature dangling down under the table at the back. Look under the tray, and it is clearly seen to move about and could be connected to his body! Is this the pink bunnies tail I wonder??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 19, 2007, 05:43:27 PM
I understand skepticism, but lets not turn away a legitamate find here. I think its time to stop asking Dr. Stiffler to change his setup around so that we are satisfied! He has given us his info and been very kind in
Letting us see the results, He has jumped through hoops for us. Every time we have something that cannot be immediately disproved, its like people make it their mission to scare the inventor away with accusations! We can ask for accuracy sure, but don?t assume deceit!

Personally, Thank you Dr. Stiffler for your results. I have been working on Single wire transmission for a bit, but never really thought of the resonant frequency of the core (molecularly speaking)  to have a large part in the process. I always just strived for minimal induction losses with laminated steel cores, Bravo on finding the barium idea! If only my sig gen didn?t cap out at 5MHz! Grrrrrrr. Looks like another expenditure to put on the books!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 19, 2007, 07:03:34 PM
Just a thought, I donno if anybody reads my "tangential" posts anyways but...

What would makes barium ferrite act in this particular manor??? Good thing you asked, ill give you my interpretation of it, which is actually long and drawn out, but I will make it short and sweet.

We have to compounds, barium, and iron chemically bonded. There are magnetic domains, associated with the barium molecules. These domains don't become magnetic until they are given a reason to be.

If we were to wind a coil around this material, the current induced through the wire will create a magnetic field which will orient the magnetic domains in some arbitrary direction. Now if the induced current is oscillated at a frequency near the ressonant frequency of barium, perhaps this creates additional movement within the magnetic domains, causing more delta flux over delta time resulting in increased output. If this is the case I don't think that the core really could distinguish between primary and secondaries wound on it and I would speculate that this thing might actually be trying to feed some energy back into the signal generator as well! It would be interesting to use a rectified signal to feed the barium farrite transformer get it to resonance, and then stick some measuring equipment in between the generator and the core, and find if there are any additional fluctuations heading the "wrong way".

Barium works particularly well for this because it is known to have a frailly high Q when in resonance,

What would happen if we were to run this at 3.231MHz?....the resonant frequency of iron. Or what would happen if we were to feed with a combination of the two frequencies?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 19, 2007, 07:49:34 PM
Self-power or earth power?

...or Dr. Stiffler's magnetic personality?

Hey folks - he is being a little cute here, but if it
has not dawned on you yet- this is the most important
video on free energy that any "earthling" has ever witnessed!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdJm9QCVJHY


Hmm,
no more signal generator anymore ?

Is there still the radio transmitter nearby
and you draw power from this, or do the
60 Hz induction via the ground wire maybe
excite your ferrite cores at the Mhz resonance ?
Hmm, pretty strange, if it is not just your local radio station via resonance...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 19, 2007, 07:50:31 PM
Well, we really need to see scope shots,
otherwise really nothing can be said..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on October 19, 2007, 10:15:53 PM
Hi All,
This experiment is interesting in that it brings up the subject of cold electricity.
So in "cold electricity part 7" he is able to power 8 LEDs from touch alone.
I wonder if he has his other hand on the function generator output and he is standing on something insulated?
I can see some connections between this device and the TPU.
Also its possible that there has been no success on the TPU front because of the missing final conversion process.
I think I have all the parts to make this including the big Proto board, just missing the parasitic beads, I knew that LW/MW coil would come in handy one day - time to dust it off I think.
I would be good to see this on a PCB, see him walk outside into the garden say, then touch it and show the LEDs being lit.
The next question is, can this be scaled up?
Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 19, 2007, 11:41:01 PM
@Dr Stiffler

Thank you for sharing your experiments with us. I am awaiting the arrival of my coil/cores and hope to soon replicate your work. I am sure there are others who would love to join in constructively.

I really think that people who are just heckling should start their own thread where they can be smart all day.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 20, 2007, 12:27:29 AM
Self-power or earth power?

Someone better call an ambulance for Fritz - he looks quite ill and
possibly has choked on something ;-)

hmmm spent my day in an ambulance car.,..
what next?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 20, 2007, 07:33:20 PM
In the second schematic that was published, it shows an aluminum plate. Do you suppose the pan is the aluminum plate and the wire that goes under it is connected to a sheet of aluminum and touching the plate?

Some things that are clear:
1. The man is not an idiot or fool.
2. He has a beef with egocentrics, detractors, government disinformation experts and magical thinkers.
3. He is mad as hell that people that have suggested he is a fraud.
4. If he had planned to set up the people he has a beef with, he could not have planned these videos any better to allow them to be who they are so he can crush them in the end. He just keeps removing components.
5. He has an agenda that is more social than technical in nature. The technology is just the medicine that he is using to cure the social problem.

I think you should get some cores and replicate it before you suffer an overdose of your own words.

How many of the people that have claimed he was a fraud have replicated his CREC circuit or even watched it and verified that it was 1.6 OU? I replicated it and it really does work. Using the law of probability and a mind that is capable of recognizing truth, I would be a fool to suggest he is a liar.

Here is what insanity looks like:
A belief is accepting something that is true though you have no experience of it.
A disbelief is rejecting something as true though there is experience to be had.

Here is what sanity looks like:

There are things that I know and things that I do not know. I do not know what I do not know.

If you were Dr. Stiffler and you tried to give the coolest free energy device you ever came across in your career to people searching for free energy and they instead of being thankful, called you a fool and a liar... Now wouldn't that piss you off all the way? It pisses me off all the way watching some of you do it.

Stiffler and I are not so different in our utter disdain for some of the people that claim to research OU. There is a reason that it has not been, is not being, and will not be discovered here, or most other free energy web sites. It is because of the people he described in his user agreement on his web site.

Now he is stuck in the middle. Mainstream science on one side, fringe science on the other. I stand with him until I know, or don't know if it works. In the end, I will know. I ordered 60 cores.

Science, fringe or mainstream, has become worse than anything wacko religion ever created. It is no wonder these sites attract so many people high on Jesus.

Also, to who ever suggested this was not the place to shout down the liars, con men, egocentrics, believers and disbelievers, YOU ARE WRONG! This is the perfect place, the ONLY place, to shout them down.

No wonder people like Stiffler don't help us.

It is O.K. to notice the wire under the pan. It is not O.K. to suggest he is a fraud until you know what the wire does. The wire is most likely connected to nothing in order to allow you to shove your foot in your mouth further, if that is even possible at this point.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 20, 2007, 07:53:11 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 20, 2007, 08:59:35 PM
Dear All,

Some people in this forum know my complete name, my profession
and where I live. Even Wolfgang is my first name and Friedrich (fritz)
is my middle name(nickname).
As long as I make general technical statements here - I see no reason
why everybody should know me !!??
I think Dr. Stiffler is a funny guy, which plays out the #10 funny analog
tricks to the public - this is a quite educational thing.
At least I think its a good training to analyze things - to train our
perception to differentiate between believe, fact and science.

I think the original intention of the circuit was to play around with an
"inverted hysteresis" setup. Having a resonator with nonlinear C(FET)
and nonlinear L (ferrite) envolved.
Such stuff should swing forever if excited once if properly biased.
It should be no problem for such a competent player to operate
such circuit without any wire attached using feedback.

Even if no LED attached - just selfoscillating forever - he could easily
proof this by putting a frequency analyser at his bench. (using tiny
wire to catch oscillation emmitted by this oscillator)

Because of the fact that he uses no proper prototype - and shows
no effort to make the stuff work on its own - I have the feeling that (...)
Its up to you. Funny guy.

rgds,

fritz
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 20, 2007, 09:11:20 PM
"It is O.K. to notice the wire under the pan. It is not O.K. to suggest he is a fraud until you know what the wire does. The wire is most likely connected to nothing in order to allow you to shove your foot in your mouth further, if that is even possible at this point."

well said ... except please don't dignify that silly 'wire under the pan' comment with another reference. The original poster of that inane observation was obviously too lazy to look at the previous YouTube  video where it is blatantly obvious that this wire is his ground connection. Duh.

And yes - it is true that, so-far, the system does requires a ground as a substitute for the signal and cannot be floated. Is that where the powers coming from? Surely everyone must realize that the goal is to float the system withs its own onboard timing - but this is an ongoing, evolving project. Look how far it has come in the week since the CE4 video was posted.

Doubtful that his ground could be doing this, but before the next skeptic genius chimes in, let me mention "resonant rise" as being a possibility for at least understanding how the voltage gets pumped up- but still ask yourself how can any ground connection provide about .3 v on a regular basis ;-) 

At least the 'joule thief' device (site below) --- IF it does represents the limits of how far you can take resonant-rise, would indicate that you need ~.3 v of potential from somewhere, correct? ... and remember that Dr. S is now up to 20 LEDs on this same circuit.

He would still be posting these updates, and answering intelligent questions, instead of me relaying them, if some of the posters here had a little civility and respect. He wants to understand this as much as you do, and a wide number of replications and inputs is the only way to get anywhere without adding a large staff.

Here is the 'joule thief' URL:
http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/joule.htm

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 20, 2007, 09:45:38 PM
Dear All,

Ok, some suggestions:

1st:

Make the stuff work on a proper prototype:
Use a tiny copper pcb, solder the stuff in a way you
do it for rf (no cables, no wires, just components as
close as can be. (30 minutes)
Maybe(make the stuff work then) will take longer;-))

2nd:

Replace an LED by a tiny DC/DC converter which powers
a tiny RC pulse oscillator in HCMOS which operates the circuit.
(Still use external power to startup, then disconnect) (2hrs)

3rd:

Operate the stuff outside, start up with battery and move
around to proof that no radiation around. (avoid visble tranformer
houses and powerplants on the video).
You can even hold the stuff == ground it - no problem with that (2hrs)

(...)
If I discover something, I track it down to the rootcause.
Adding more LEDs is interesting - but not the way to prove the setup.
If magical things happen on my breadboard - I verify that - and dont
mystify it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 20, 2007, 10:09:01 PM
@ jonesbeene

Interesting link to the joule thief. That is something I can build today - Thanks.

To develop this friendly discussion further regarding the last CE7 video, it is worth noticing that the pan is propped up on a piece of insulating plastic. The wire is long enough to go AROUND the pan but it does not.

As long as everyone is speculating, (including me) I wonder if the wire is not connected to a piece of foil that is touching the pan and he didn't want to give that away yet. The circuit shows an aluminum plate.

I speculate  in the end, you will see that the circuit DOES float and run on it's own. Everything I have seen thus far suggests that.

I for one am very excited about this and think it is the best thing I have seen in years. A person would have to be cynical to a psycho level to think that Mr. Stiffler would go on you tube, identify himself and then play some kind of hoax on people. It is clear he is intelligent and credible.

Maybe this should be the speculation rule:
If you don't have at least 5 of those cores on order, you should not be speculating on this and if you do have them ordered, you should give Dr. Stiffler the respect and kindness we all deserve.


There is no crime in being stupid. All of us are at times in our life, including Dr. S. but exhibiting belligerence and ignorance at the same time will always be perceived as an injustice to the receiver because it is just that.

No offense to fritz or anyone else, we all know things that even Dr. Stiffler does not know. I for one can pack a parachute with blind folded or loop an airplane with a glass of water in one hand without spilling any. I'll bet Ron Stiffler can't do that! :-) But then he would be smart enough not to try... :-)

The important thing is that we share what we know and when we are wrong, we are gentle with our fellow man when it is deserved. I hope that Dr. Stiffler will be gentle with us as well, we are a "group" of individuals.

I am going to order ten more cores and get them shipped overnight air. Another week is too long to wait to start figuring this out.

Also I talked to the seller of the cores and they do come from China and they sell other shapes and sizes. Let's get this replicated and then improve it possibly with a more efficient toroid and work constructively together while we do.

Wouldn't it be something if we took this idea and replaced the crank generator in the One laptop per child laptop? The generator is the most expensive parts. If we work together on this we can do that. I live in a world of possibilities, not impossibilities.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 20, 2007, 10:16:46 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 20, 2007, 10:38:36 PM
Hey fritz - Is there really such thing as a "proper" board in the search for something that classic EM can not produce or explain such a sOU? EDIT Does cold electricity and regular electricity work the same? Do they have the same current level? Etc.

Different metals exhibit different electron affinities. I think we should replicate what is being displayed and not tell Ron what to do. Otherwise, that comes across as being a bit egocentric.

You can order some cores and put it on a "proper" board and tell us how it works.
Work things out:

If I want to know what I have found - I track it down.
1.) What is essential for the operation (Ground?)
2.) What is exchangeable (can I use green LED!?)
3.) If I "reduce" the setup shortening wires, does it influences
   the circuit ? - If yes try to replace parasitary caps with real
  ones ...
4.) Is it reproducible,
5.) Everytime ?
6.) Everywhere ?
7.) Temperature ? Air Pressure ?
8.) Does it work with another pulse generator ?


"Is there really such thing as a "proper" board" ?
Yes there is.
As long as you invent a "magic board" - no need.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: b0rg13 on October 20, 2007, 11:29:45 PM
hi , is anyone able to get there crayons out and draw the circut?...in a simple way with everything listed?
..there is some kind of core?..with is it cardbord or paper wraped around it ?..what kind of wire is coiled around it?..where does each end of that coil go to ?..etc ( yes im talking about a drawing a 10year old could read with everything listed and made clear).

..and how might it work ?...the core does,what?.......vibrates?,humms?(how?)..the coil around the core then picks up the vibrations and and electrons flow to make a led light up ? ( i have noidea as you can plainly see,but id like to know).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 12:02:57 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 12:05:32 AM
@ B0rg13

The circuit has 2 versions. Both are listed in this thread. He also has a web site http://stifflerscientific.com

The ebay auction where you can get the cores is listed in the thread.

He also has some videos on youtube http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MRH2O2

hope that helps.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 12:15:45 AM
And just in case anyone was thinking about trying this.... I was bored last night.

Fugifilm makes a new video tape made of BeFe nanocrystal material. I bought one and wrapped about 100 layers on a 1" plastic tube. Since I had no way of knowing how many windings on the secondary, I wrapped for about 2" with #36 wire. (Single strand) and then placed about 20 turns of #24 on for the primary.

I hooked a scope to it and pulled off windings, hooked a 555 to it, etc. nothing aver created anything unexpected. I.e., it didn't work. I didn't have litz wire but that probably would not have mattered much.

I am looking into getting more core shapes and sizes from the same company to experiment with. Also I found a good source for Litz wire and they sell sample spools.

If somebody knows exactly what form of barium is in a core please specify. I am thinking about getting the chemical and trying to make my own as I want to experiment with pancake coil layers to build multiple cells, if this thing pans out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 21, 2007, 12:52:26 AM
One more thought...

Dr. Ron Stiffler is not some made up user name like fritz, BEB, SPEW or even mine. He is a real person, has a real web site, has a real lab and has a real reputation.

If you are going to suggest that a real person is a fraud, you should be willing to to use your real name to do it in this public forum.

I could not agree better,
so please stop hammering on Dr. Stiffler.

I am looking forward to see his 20 LED unit.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 21, 2007, 03:51:38 AM
Hello,

If you need the BaFe cores like the ones seen used by good doc stiffler just find any AM radio or an alarm clocks with an AM radio, from 5-10 years ago. It is possible that even newest radios/alarm clocks employ the same kind of cores. In any case surely there are garage sales, pawn shops, or surplus stores in your neighbourhood that would have these kinds of items for cheap.

As far as doc stiffler, he might want to consider putting up clear instructions on how to replicate his experiments rather than posting teaser videos and having everyone take sides on the whole thing, or is that his ultimate intention?

I would personally drop the comic relief attempts and focus on the explanation of how to achieve the effect and how to replicate it with precise instructions and good schematics. There's nothing stronger than truth and facts, they will speak for themselves without a need to be a comedian...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 05:38:14 AM
Hartmann, are you drunk on fine German beer? This is the first time in ten years you have agreed with me.

@ Amego - I like the comedy. You would be a little defensive too I you were him. I am surprised he still has a sense of humor. Also he has clear instructions on his web site.

As for the source of "exact same cores". As much as I would like an excuse to rip the guts out of my alarm clock, he (Stiffler) found that only 10 out of his 15 cores worked.

That is why I bought 60 cores. So that I can replicate EXACTLY what he is showing. Otherwise, someone will probably say that HIS idea does not work. My BaFe magnetic tape experiment did not work but I'll bet you a dollar it would work in my clock radio.

I noticed that in the two schematics provided thus far, the diodes are arranged differently. I think that the diode position on the first was correct?

Can someone clear that up? I was going to redraw that schematic and include a parts/source list and get everything compiled into one document or zip file for people since this thread is getting long.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 21, 2007, 05:49:02 AM
Freenrg4me,

Not starting an argument here or anything but you say that doc stiffler's instructions are clear on his site, yet two paragraphs later you are asking about diodes in the schematics. That to me sounds like the instructions were not clear and confirms what I have written prior, so I stand by what I wrote :)

Otherwise, if we have to buy 60 cores to find a good one to replicate this experiment then we might as well drop the whole thing and go do something else, maybe enjoy our lives...that's like finding an easy solution to anti-gravity that anyone can build, but you need to get ore from the Moon to replicate it.

In any case I am looking forward seeing all the (positive) replications based on his current instructions. Also, that fellow on eBay must be making a killing selling those cores now :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 06:17:02 AM
@ Amego - I stand corrected on the diode and clear instructions statement.

But then you have to ask the question, does it matter or did he change it on purpose? The reality is anyone with half a functioning brain would have found the instructions on his web site or in in this thread and noticed the diode change and would try both directions. I was just trying to clear that up for those that don't have half a functioning brain.

Also - you don't need to buy sixty cores and I think anyone with half a functioning brain knows that. I plan to give them as Christmas gifts to the kids I know in an effort inspire them to search and discover things on their own during their lives so they don't grow up to be like... Well, enjoy your trip to the moon.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: passion1 on October 21, 2007, 07:20:01 AM
I was going to redraw that schematic and include a parts/source list and get everything compiled into one document or zip file for people since this thread is getting long.
Freenrg4me

Thank you Freenrg4me!
Myself (and I am sure most of the other following this thread) will really appreciate such an effort.

Looking forward to your document.......

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 21, 2007, 09:03:49 AM
Fritz, you missed my point again and so this is probably pointless but I will try one more time because I value you.

When you use the word "proper", you are suggesting that he is improper.

If you want a proper circuit, go buy a LED flashlight. Until then, stop suggesting to Ron what he should be doing or speaking to/about him in a condescending way. That is one of the reasons he does not come here. We wish he would come here or somewhere but I don't blame him.

Just stop. O.K.?

I never called somebody a liar, I don?t expect a fraud,
I believe that everything is "as is".
Throwing the first stone is not my hobby - people who worked
with me know this.
Maybe his way of working is not the way I would do it (I?m used to),
maybe the way how he does the videos is not my style.
Anyway I?m busy with other stuff, I spent a serious amount of time
on this stuff so far - I did this "in bona fide" with no interest to hurt
somebody personally. If you suggest me to stop this - no problem.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 09:14:19 AM
Thanks Fritz.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 21, 2007, 09:21:35 AM
I plan to give them as Christmas gifts to the kids I know in an effort inspire them to search and discover things on their own during their lives so they don't grow up to be like... Well, enjoy your trip to the moon.

@Freenrg4me
Which Christmas will that be? These project normally get exiting when the thread gets to page 100 then the thread splits. As an example look at the TPU or Meyer threads!

For the moment I hope I am wrong.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 09:54:43 AM
Here is the short answer:
This Christmas - Being an old retired guy myself, I have a lot of time. Ron has given enough detail to replicate this in an hour once I have the cores.

Here is the long answer:
Stan Meyer patented his technology and then apparently sold it to the merchants of death. He took the secrets to the grave with him and in the end, he achieved nothing, he left behind nothing and he gained nothing.

Ron Stiffler has generously and openly shared an anomaly that shows promise and a CREC invention that has been proved to be OU. Ron has not patented any of it to my knowledge and he does this open source. Ron is alive, he has my undying respect and he is leaving something behind.

As far as "interesting" Meyer threads are concerned, I would love to know about that. We still have people creating mark space circuits to "enhance" production... Meyer needed the space to limit production and that is exactly what it does. I swear, the over unity movement is a gathering place for people that suffer from ADD. (Mercury poisoning AKA - Attention Deficit Disorder)

There is a goofball on youtube replicating the "Dave cell alternator method" because he wanted to prove you don't need a battery to produce electrolysis. I congratulated him on his amazing discovery that an alternator produces electricity...

The reality is that I am primary interested in this technology because I have read all the nearly 300 pages of Meyer stuff, built several cell configurations, many of the circuits including the toroid transformer, and none of it did anything.

What I want to know, and the question was asked by Dr. Stiffler in another experiment, is this related to the Meyer process?

Example - Meyer shows a cell (electron extractor) formed from a semiconducting material in a binder. Could that material have been barium ferrite since barium resonates almost exactly ten times that of H1? Notice that there were two coils of wire on one of the Meyer cell configurations?

The more you know about Meyer and Stiffler, the more the dots start to possibly connect. I think Stiffler knows more than he is letting on and would prefer we "discovered" it ourselves. Nothing good could come to him from connecting some dots for us.

Besides, most people are so inverted, if it is true, they think it is a lie, black is white, up is down. Most people (Americans) have been so chemically dumbed down from aspartame and MSG, they only have 30% on the neurons they would naturally have. Aspartame and MSG are excitotoxins and they cause your neurons to upload calcium until they burst. Chemicals added to your food to keep you a slave courtesy the Zionst, neocons and Nazis (all same thing) that hijacked America.

That's my answer and my final rant for the day. Goodnight.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 21, 2007, 11:35:40 AM
Besides, most people are so inverted, if it is true, they think it is a lie, black is white, up is down. Most people (Americans) have been so chemically (...)

I think the underlying problem is the existence of black/white, up/down, true/lie
topology itself.
Working together(as European) with my colleagues in San Jose was quite thrilling.
If you agree, they love you, if you dare to raise some critical comment they feel
personal offended.
Don?t know if that is a language or cultural problem. (wrong input or unexpected response)
I prefer the "grey" topology.
For me, a critcal comment means that somebody is interested - no comment or just blind "yes"
- not (really) interested.
What is black / white for if its used by so different, individual people ?

rgds, yes this is off-topic.
 

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 03:03:55 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 21, 2007, 03:41:01 PM
For the benefit of those who are actually working to replicate, or to try variations of cores LEDs etc, or to improve on this circuit, it would be better NOT to begin with the old CE5 or earlier incarnations, in my opinion.

The old one does work, but the newer circuit will drive at least 20 LEDs (now way more than that) so why go backwards? It is simple, and copyrighted to Dr.Stiffler so do not post it elsewhere. Please do post your results - positive or negative.

The only way to make huge strides quickly is cooperation and openness. Knowing what doesn't work is almost as helpful as knowing what does. I will not bore you with yet another requote of Edison's famous quip about incandescent lamp filaments.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on October 21, 2007, 03:53:27 PM
The sling and double-sling effect are discussed on the German site here:
http://www.evert.de/eft708e.htm

There are probably other names for this effect as well, but the reason it is mentioned here now, wrt a completely different subject, is that it suggests a mechanical way that a purely passive blocking system for one form of energy, can boost the total output in another form, so long as net losses are minimized. IOW one can block linear motion to increase circumferential (angular momentum) and so forth. To me it is an apt analogy for an EM systems, but only valuable in either type if the
net gain does not include low grade heat, as is most often the case, and is able to boost ambient energy in someway into the alternate form.

In effect, a dielectric or semiconductor which presents an impediment to electron flow can possibly
boost the net energy available in photons, so long as there is little waste heat, and if ambient energy has been cohered.

All of this came up in response the mention of 'resonant rise' and the observation that the Imris
patent presents a similar 'resonant rise' principle to the Stiffler CE7 circuit.

US Patent # 3,781,601   Canadian Patent # 951836

"Optical Generator of an Electrostatic Field having Longitudinal Oscillations at Light Frequencies for Use in an Electrical Circuit"

Pavel Imris was awarded this expired patent in the 1970s. The patent is most interesting in that it
claims a device having an output power nine times greater, in photons, than the equivalent input power.
The device uses a series of xenon tubes- quartz glass envelope which contains xenon gas under pressure (the higher the pressure, the greater the gain of the device).

The same kind of resonant rise apparently is at work in the CE7.

Each Imris lamp can work to its full specification on less than one-fortieth of its rated input power.
However, these tubes are not nearly as efficient initially, in terms of lumens per watt as the LED; but
even so- the claimed light output power of more than nine times the input power should have made it a
commercial item, despite the exorbitant cost of xenon. Or else the claims are overblown. Does anyone know for sure?

Anyway, from the point of view of any individual lamp, before using this Imris series circuit, it required 40 watts of electrical input power to give 8.8 watts of light output, an efficiency of about 22%. In one test, the input power per lamp was 0.9 watts for the 8.8 watts of light produced, which is a lamp efficiency of more than 900%. Quite an impressive performance for so simple a device, but FAR FAR less so than the Stiffler LED circuit which is now driving an enormous # of LEDs with almost no input.

I is just a matter of time before the light from a future incarnation of Stiffler's circuit is focused to
a solar cell so that the device can 'float,' and remove all possible doubt that ground, or a tiny signal can
be powering the large array of LEDs.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 21, 2007, 04:24:57 PM
@Freenrg4me

I believe the idea here is not to play games or teach "students" new things through puzzles. If those of us with 1/4 of a brain have to figure out how to positively replicate this instead of a straight forward put this here and there, then it leads me to believe good old doc has purposely obscured it.

At this point of time it should be more important to allow everyone to replicate the effects as easy as possible, instead of giving them somewhat incomplete details and hoping they figure it out on their own. A positive replication from dozens of people would stand out as an undeniable proof of validity of claims from the doc. So far I haven't read about anyone yet confirming this to be working...

Oh, and you forgot to add Fluoride as a neurotoxin in water that keeps people docile. It worked for Stalin to keep his prison population at bay, and it surely works on most Americans as well :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 21, 2007, 09:16:02 PM
@Freenrg4me

I believe the idea here is not to play games or teach "students" new things through puzzles. If those of us with 1/4 of a brain have to figure out how to positively replicate this instead of a straight forward put this here and there, then it leads me to believe good old doc has purposely obscured it.

Oh, and you forgot to add Fluoride as a neurotoxin in water that keeps people docile. It worked for Stalin to keep his prison population at bay, and it surely works on most Americans as well :D

The information is really quite complete but the project is evolving, the information is spread out and nobody has cores to replicate with yet. I am working with fritz to get it all in one basket and now see we have another schematic with yet more LEDs. That is cause to celebrate!

You are right, it must be the fluoride in the water. They are also adding aspartame to vaccinations that babies get. I read an interesting article the other day online where the pentagon plans to fall back to a "legitimate government" if people rise up in rebellion. These are different times and people need to wake up if they can. Glad to see you are.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 22, 2007, 04:03:35 AM
Okay think about this one logically guys. Why are we all waiting to buy some special cores?

I understand consistency being a large factor in replication attempts, but if the key is the resonance of barium, then size of the core should have nothing to do with it. Any size core would still display the same affects simply because it is barium ferrite, not because of its physical size.

I'm sure you all have a bit of the stuff around,

 if not, demagnetize some magnets in the oven and start playing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 22, 2007, 05:51:30 AM
I believe I have the right core, and it did come from the old alarm clock. It looks just like the ones on eBay, yet I am still unable to light even one LED. Perhaps my psi powers are not as strong as doc stifflers? ;)

I am not sure what the trick here is, so I might as well wait till others replicate this so it works then try it again...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 22, 2007, 07:27:26 AM
@ amego

I believe I have the right core, and it did come from the old alarm clock. It looks just like the ones on eBay, yet I am still unable to light even one LED. Perhaps my psi powers are not as strong as doc stifflers? ;)

psi powers???

Amego, do I need to verbally rip you in half and wear your lower torso for pants in order to set an example?

Are you working over an aluminum plate? The schematics clearly show the aluminum plate below the circuit. Is your core  680uf? Did you make the proper choke? Etc.

I did try the barium magnet idea withing hours of seeing the first video but had no luck with that. And so we will get some cores and let the science take us where it does. Nobody knows for sure including Stiffler from the sound of it. He was wanting to show us what he had and get some help replicating it and figuring it out and how to make it better. What in the hell is this place for if not for that? Why can't that be done without being insulted by empty idiots?

Be constructive, not destructive. Otherwise, all you do is teach anyone with original ideas to keep it to themselves. That is what I have learned from this. If I discover something and want help in figuring it out, I won't use one of these forums after seeing what happened to Dr. Stiffler.

Have you looked at his CREC stuff? He took down the videos but that was really informative in regards to measuring output. The extra pulse (recycled energy) was about 80% of the input on my scope and that is a cool idea. He also has a circuit to provide a quick reverse pulse to clear the electrodes and that is what was making that pulse of gas in his bucket video - another original idea. Clean electrodes make more gas.

He has original ideas and hangs it all out there. I like that because it takes intelligence and balls. It takes zero intelligence or balls to sit back and make cracks about something you have little or no first hand experience at. I wonder where we would be right now if we all went forward like Stiffler? Posting experiments and results. Way ahead of where we are now, that is for sure.

The reality is, we don't know what Stiffler has discovered and I doubt he fully does either. But what this has taught  us is what we do not want, what we can not tolerate in the search for OU if we are to be successful.

It is one thing to make observations, it is another thing to make insults.

Every time you do that I am going to confront you and I don't care if the cowards that agree with me sit there and say nothing. I am my own man and I am comfortable in my old skin and can deal with the likes of you anytime.

Why do you work against the over unity research amego? You have invested nothing but you wise cracks into this. Are you a counter intelligence agent? Do you have a personality defect or both? Do you have a nice lab like Doc Stiffler packed with equipment? Do you have original ideas? Do you hang it out there? Nope, you just attack those that do. Don't piss me off, unlike Stiffler, I don't have such a good sense of humor.

Now grow up and act like an intelligent adult or go do something else. We are researchers, not character assassins.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 22, 2007, 02:24:49 PM
whoa wait a second, I think you are way out of line.

I know you are being upright in protecting what you think is just and fair, and I too applaud DR. Stifler for his efforts,
however I believe amigo was just trying to say that he had no luck.

There is a famous report by the united states gov where they evaluate John Hutchisons work. They see the results first hand, are sure it works, but nobody is able to replicate it, thus they came to the conclusion, and this is documented, that Hutchison himself was the magic ingredient, and they said that he could influence the experiment with his mind.

THUS if you cant get a replication to work, you dont have a strong enough mental influence, JUST A HARMLESS JOKE, NO HARM. Lets put those weapons down, I think we have established that stifler is no fake.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 22, 2007, 07:48:27 PM
JUST A HARMLESS JOKE, NO HARM. Lets put those weapons down, I think we have established that stifler is no fake.

I think what this has experience taught us is that a "HARMLESS JOKE" DOES CAUSE HARM and serves no purpose but to cause harm. Amego is the same person that was suggesting in a previous post wrote

"I would personally drop the comic relief attempts and focus on the explanation of how to achieve the effect and how to replicate it with precise instructions and good schematics. There's nothing stronger than truth and facts, they will speak for themselves without a need to be a comedian..."

and furthermore, I am not out of line.

I will give you an example, last week I tried a bunch of harmless chemicals and elements to enhance electrolysis production that won't cause the cell to scum up like salt. I found two that work nicely and both of them are ingredients that humans consume and are inexpensive.

Did I post that anywhere? Hell no!

Yesterday I figured out how to make a cell that makes the output production and effecency of EVERYTHING I have seen so far look pathetic and it does that for a tiny fraction of the cost of stainless tubes or plates. Do you see me posting that anywhere? Nope.

Now why do you think that is? The answer is simple. I don't need the hassle from someone that can't follow instructions and replicate a circuit with 5 components and why would I give anything to the worst enemy of over unity research?

amego with his brand new username and 5 posts is most likely a disinfo agent. My sole purpose until they are exposed and chased away is to do just that. You would think Hartmann would have a vested interest in making an example of a few people to accomplish that task.

This forum has been running for close to ten years in various incarnations but has produced nothing but hassle and fear for anyone that has discovered anything interesting or much less OU. They have relegated these forums to being useless and pointless. My only purpose here is to make a whole hearted attempt to replicate something I find of interest from someone else created, I.e., validate that person with a good idea, and or, suppress the detractors, egocentrics and disinformation experts.

If I ever want to share something, I will do it privately and I will share it with someone with a long history of being serious and showing courage in draining the pond of scum.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 22, 2007, 08:31:33 PM
Perhaps you are not familiar with eastern philosophy which coincidentally leaks into fundamental western views on morality and life in general.

Should the individual stated be a disinformant, he is welcome. He poses a different point of view and represents the opposition we all need. Without dark how can we know light exists? How hot is hot without reference to cold? Why do we work on decreasing friction in machinery when we need that friction to function? Because we need a balance of everything. We need opinion from all sides.

You my friend are free to pick and choose what you believe, that is the gift we have as humans.

I believe a fundamental error has been committed by many. Knowledge is knowledge and is voluble weather correct or incorrect. Who among you can say you have replicated every device you have learned something from? I have learned a lot from things I have read about, and never actually tried myself. Much of what I know may be incorrect, if I find this out to be true in the future, that piece of knowledge will also be added to my arsenal, and again my base of information will grow.

You serve nobody but yourself in keeping knowledge. You may have made many significant discoveries within the last week, I do not doubt you, unfortunately you have condemned humanity to a rank of incompetence, and decide to keep your info to yourself. Basically you have made judgment upon another for an act not yet committed.

Ever heard of a preemptive strike? (USA?.Middle east?cough cough) this is one of the fundamental fallacies listed in many texts concerning logic and argument.

This is not to say that you are without right at being upset at the many people who ?nay say? much of the research that happens here. I to do not post all I learn, but I do so because I don?t feel I can present it in a irrefutable way yet. (and partly due to the nay sayers, nobody is perfect) You are within your rights.

I would simply like to make a request of the entire community.

Please, limit conversation to productive avenues. If you disagree, awesome, let us know. If you are disagreed with?.you didn?t see it coming? How will you respond? I don?t think I need to spell out proper discussion decorum in a room full of adults.

For the love of a higher deity of your choosing??.RESPECT your fellow man, even if he has disrespected you. You believe yourself superior no? then act in accordance.

We are all guilty of falling out of line yourself included.


Why do you think DR S does not post himself? id take a shot at awnsering, but I think deep down you all already know the awnser, finger off the trigger guys.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rburley on October 22, 2007, 09:44:29 PM
Hi
   Try series resonance you get very high voltages across the cap and inductor.
   All the Best
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 22, 2007, 09:47:54 PM
armagdn03 Whatever... If you value someone who gets paid to cause disruption and drive away real researchers, well...

As far an being free to choose the God of my choice, mine told me "don't throw your pearls to swine."

And so I will be offline for a while because unlike some of you, I actually build things, do research and produce original ideas nearly every day. I spend roughly $300 hundred a week on this for materials and gear and I am beginning to have something to show for it.

But trust me pal, nothing I create that is original will be thrown to the swine that swims here and that is the same reason Stiffler does not, just to clear up your last line...

So feel free to pontificate whether the cat is in the box or some guy melts metal with his mind but I am too busy doing research for your nonsense. BTW - That report on Hutchinson was surely true since that honest US government documented it for you. Make up your mind.

Final thought - If you are going to attempt to use higher order thinking in an attempt to defend what is probably your partner, don't leave out the thinking part. You only expose yourself for who and what you are.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 22, 2007, 10:33:55 PM
 I wish you the best, and I hope your experimenting goes well! hopefully we will here from you again and you will find it in your heart to share what you have worked so hard for.

Perhaps there are swine among us, I have found negativity around every corner I cross in life, even this one, what one does with that is what defines them.

@All
come on guys, we all know what is right and what is wrong. We know what helps the cause and what is a waste of time. You are not swine. You have taken the time out of your day to attempt to solve a problem that plagues your fellow man.

However you go about this endeavor, be it advice,. expertise, creativity, invention, replication, do so in an honorable manor.

p.s. thanks for clearing up my last line on the previous post, I think that after your kind words it rings loud and clear.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 23, 2007, 01:55:58 AM
@Freenrg4me

I truly respect what you say, but then again I will respect what everyone says as well, as long as it is said with conviction. Person who stands behind what s/he believes in is worth two that don't use their heads to think for they believe what they are told by someone else.

I did not come here to start a flame war, I only joined this forum recently, and no armagdn03 is not my partner in some sort of a conspiracy against you or anyone else, matter a fact I do not know armagdn03 more than I know you.

But here are the facts. Doc Stiffler did not clearly describe how to replicate his experiment, instead he video it as a tease if we are to decide by the audio commentary. Maybe what he posted makes sense to you but it does not to me, nor to dozens of others who have posted their vows here for more information, scope screenshots, etc. It is not that I do not believe doc is a man of character of integrity, I grant that to anyone I meet or hear from the first time because I believe everyone (should) have some in them.

Or am I making a fatal mistake to have too much faith into humanity, because what you have said truly disturbs me:

Quote
But trust me pal, nothing I create that is original will be thrown to the swine that swims here and that is the same reason Stiffler does not, just to clear up your last line...

Is this how you really feel? Because if that's the case than I see another intelligent person that has fallen down into the vortex of have and have nots. This planet is riddled with such beings, minority of those who have and majority of those who have not.

I ask rhetorically, are those of us here, and elsewhere, who are seeking the answers into Free Energy doing this for our own interest or for the betterment of human kind as a whole. Granted there are those who wish to profit from it, but I would hope that majority is genuinely interested in helping this world progress beyond the primitive dark ages (of both the body and the mind) that we are living in.

If you are unwilling to share your insights and knowledge with the rest of us when you re-discover something of importance because you consider us "swine that swim", then perhaps you belong to some other (elite) group elsewhere that is closed to the public and has their own agenda of world domination or whatever other evil plan they have in their twisted perverted minds.

Last words of wisdom, if I may share them with you on this subject, are that our "overlords" see us as human resource, expendable crew (red shirts ;) ) and useless eaters. The only way we could possibly fight them is to stand together - united, as human kind against the evil they represent. Please have that in mind next time you decide to scold us over our words, and when the time comes remember to forgive - not judge.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 02:47:12 AM
amigo my friend (no pun intended) leave it alone.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 03:52:25 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 03:53:29 AM
But here are the facts. Doc Stiffler did not clearly describe how to replicate his experiment, instead he video it as a tease if we are to decide by the audio commentary.

Did you watch all 7 videos? In each video the circuit is clearly shown on video, he has released 3 schematics, a complete parts list and in many of the videos, he takes you step by step through the circuit. Are you insane or a complete idiot?

As for the rest of what you say, I agree with some of it, unfortunately it is in contradiction to some of your previous posts. There is a little button called quote and if you need me to go through your short posting history under your brand new user name and quote you, I will. That is where the rubber meets the road.

Notice there is nobody here working on this? Maybe they took a trip to the moon to get some of that antigravity technology you spoke of in an earlier post.

And I didn't call everyone here swine, just you and your buddy.

And one other thing counselor, we met in another thread, your writing style is very distinct, it is the reason you only have a few posts on your brand new user name and I already exposed you for who you are.

If you knew what you don't know, you would know why a bunch of people are falling out of their chairs laughing at you right now. Enjoy your little party. I have other things to do.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 03:55:17 AM
But here are the facts. Doc Stiffler did not clearly describe how to replicate his experiment, instead he video it as a tease if we are to decide by the audio commentary.
Did you watch all 7 videos? In each video the circuit is clearly shown on video, he has released 3 schematics, a complete parts list and in many of the videos, he takes you step by step through the circuit. Are you insane or a complete idiot?

As for the rest of what you say, I agree with some of it, unfortunately it is in contradiction to some of your previous posts. There is a little button called quote and if you need me to go through your short posting history under your brand new user name and quote you, I will. That is where the rubber meets the road.

Notice there is nobody here working on this? Maybe they took a trip to the moon to get some of that antigravity technology you spoke of in an earlier post.

And I didn't call everyone here swine, just you and your buddy.

And one other thing counselor, we met in another thread, your writing style is very distinct, it is the reason you only have a few posts on your brand new user name and I already exposed you for who you are.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 06:03:20 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 01:18:38 PM
@ b0rg13

There is nothing going on in this thread. I am only here because I enjoy exposing government counter intelligence agents - call it a hobby.

As far as the research, you can go back a few pages and find the latest schematic. He is up to around 16 LEDS now.

Due to these people, many closed forums have been set up in different countries. Make intelligent posts, do research and be helpful and they will invite you to join them. I belong to several and believe me, it is a different experience than you will find here.

As far as overunity.com goes, because the counter intelligence community finds such this such a welcome home, most people don't trust this site and do not want to share anything new here.

Dr. Stiffler is a real scientist and so they attack him in an effort to train other people from the science community to not help out so I defend him.

They use routines based upon the psychological theories of Marty Seligman, among others. (Seligman introduced the theory of learned helplessness in the 1960s, after shocking beagles until they cowered, urinating, on the bottom of their cages.)

I stuck around to toy with them and defend Stiffler. It's been fun Nazis!

Now I must find that unsubscribe button. Hey Harmann, delete my account. I though with it. :-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 02:08:10 PM
@ AhuraMazda Ha Ha Ha! Elvis couldn't resist and slipped in the back door. Hum... That was an unfortunate choice of words. No offense to the king. :-)

I exposed her private detective buddy in another thread. It took me two days to get him so unglued he told me enough to to determine exactly who he is, where he lives and his phone number. It's posted.

As far as this circuit goes, one of the brighter people here just emailed me a really good explanation and a replication built on a crow bar of all things. I'm serious, I about fell out of my chair laughing when I saw that. A $2000 + dollar scope sitting on his bench and he built it on a freeking pry bar. He probably had a core laying around but was showing off I suspect. :-) RF guys are competitive. :-)

Anyway, I will hook him up with the Doc and let them work it out. RF is over my head.

I am more interested in Stiffler's other stuff like the CREC and learning how to do science more professionally. I also want to know if this odd circuit is how Meyer was creating a bunch of gas at mw power levels, or thought he was.

I just had a thought, since platinum is a catalyst for hydrogen and will make the hydrogen explode on contact, why not make a water injector that sparks the water with a plasma from platinum contacts. Basically the Meyer injector with the business end of the resonant cavity plated in platinum? Uses less plasma and better reaction.

I talked to Zigarous racing (miss-spelled) and they say you can feed H2O2 into the intake of a internal combustion engine with no problem. I have a new electrode design that should cost about 5 cent on the dollar of tubes and work way better, last just a long and be lighter and easier to build. PM me and we will hook up.

There you go lawyer lady, run down to the patent office and lock up that technology!

Don't you think we notice that a lawyer with no tech. experience is hanging out here 8 hours a day? Don't you think we  and ask ourselves, what's up with that? Don't you think we analyze things like writing style, words used, etc.. Perhaps counter intelligence is an accurate title.

God I'm going to miss this place, so fertile... Like shooting fish in a barrel.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 04:22:58 PM
Hey something of interest,

I have had some marginal results with the circuit so far, bit of fine tuning yet to be done.

But you mention that someone has replicated over a crowbar? Now thats interesting! was he using the same frequencies? did he use the resonant frequency of iron instead?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 23, 2007, 05:42:25 PM
Please can we come back to a normal pure technical discussion please ?

I got a picture from Dr. Stiffler lighting up 15 LEDs,
but he siad it is not for publishing.

Also he did not state anything else,
if there is still used the signal generator near it or
if it is tuned to the nearby radio station he told us
he is having in his neighbourhood.

But he also clearly shows us his measurements results in his chart.
(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce4chart01.gif)

where you can see a power amplification of about 3:1 at 12 Mhz...
So I guess he is using this effect somehow.

Just give him some more time to check it all out and prepare for more documentation.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 06:57:43 PM
I was visiting his website a few days ago and found this graph, looked at it a while and now I think there is a contradiction.

First interesting choice of axis labeling, should the independant not be on the x axis? Are we to read that on the fourth point we have the highest power around frequency 0???

also

If we are basing the results off of the barium ferrite core resonanting at a frequency of 10Mhz, then why is it a linear growth on the graph, with no decernable change in characteristics floating around the 10Mhz resonant point? In fact the graph seems to cruise past 10Mhz without anything happening. From this I would think that the core maybe has less to do with this than we previously thought. If this were an effect due to the excitation of the barium ferrite I would assume the graph would look more like this....

(http://www.countis.com/graph.gif)
the axis labels and units would be different of course, but you get the idea

(which I found typing "resonance graph" into google, and coincidentally the first site was on resonance of barrium products, lol, think god is pointing at something)

Instead what I think is happening is we are making the periods shorter and shorter as we increase the frequency. This crams more and more of the energy in to a capacitive coupling form of energy. This is consistent with teslas findings where he tried desperately to create shorter and shorter spark time lengths with magnets, blowers, flame, moving fluids.

Im not sure if he is using the sine wave output, but I have had more luck with abrupt shut off times comming from either pulse mode, or a rectified suqare wave mode (which saturates the primary a bit better). Short pulses mean more power extraction, and the more short pulses there are the more cycles we have to gain energy from, hence the high frequency.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 23, 2007, 07:48:56 PM
Hi

Great day today

Stifler put part 2 on his web site now maybe some eat their dog

www.stifflerscientific.com/ce4.asp
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on October 23, 2007, 07:52:25 PM
try a colpitts or maybe a blocking osc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 08:24:55 PM
Alternative Circuit:

->Important to use state of the art high efficiency leds.

Ground Setup:
No special grounding, groundwire connected to "house" ground -
all my equippement seen here is plugged into the same multiple
socket with grounding.
 
If I touch the hot end of the oscilloscope probe with my thumb,
(leaving the gnd of the probe unconnected)
you see the following:
->"Ground Finger" picture
 
Means the potential difference between oscilloscope(mains) ground
and my fingertip is 100Vpp. If I lift my right or left foot the voltage goes
down slightly - if I jump into the air - there is still lots of potential difference -
because my whole body is a capacitor.
(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
 
I wont say that my ground is too bad - normal condition.
If I would use a grounded conductive table and a conductive grounding
carpet(like you have it in special labs) this picture would look different
 
Ok, first I check how many LEDs I can light
with my fingertip and a ground connection:
The audio analyser socket here is grounded, the analyze is turned off,
This analyser is very heavy, completly shielded and grounded - a good gnd.
First I tried one LED - but you can probably use up to 20 LED in series.
The current in such a case is controlled by the resistance of myself
to ambient ground. This resistance is very high - thats why "I" am acting
as current source. It doesn?t matter if you connect 1 - or  4 as in the
video - the brightness of the individual LED is the same (due to me as
current source)
-> "Ground Fingerx" Video

The interesting part is - who pays for this ground-ground electricity ?
My electricity counter isnt grounded ;-)))
Does it end up on the counter of some neighbour ?
This is of course not overunity - but maybe free energy (!!)

Anyway, grounding is an issue.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 08:41:44 PM
Comments on Dr. Stifflers Part2 circuit:

What is not currently understood is why the addition of a capacitor in place of the LED reflects an increase of current through R2 ?
Thats simple, it decreases the inpedance of the overall circuit towards the generator.
This increases the current on R2.

I did a nice experiment with my generator:
I connected 2 green LEDs in series to a 5 Volt square output of my Generator:
The 2 LEDs are glimming very low. (because the 2*2.7Volts are barely reached)
If I separate the 2 Leds by 2 30cm long wires - the intensity is up to 10 times brighter.
Even if I connect the oscilloscope probe to the LEDs in series - there is an increase
in brightness.
Hmmm. The wire transforms the impedance, in this case the extra impedance from
the scope probe increases the voltage on the setup.
(normally, in DC you would expect the opposite)
well, thats rf,

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 09:05:18 PM
@fritz

so you are saying that we have an impedance matching issue? if thats the case here is one to consider,

does the impedance of the plug affect the driving circuit? (excluding the generator)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on October 23, 2007, 09:06:13 PM

If we are basing the results off of the barium ferrite core resonanting at a frequency of 10Mhz, then why is it a linear growth on the graph, with no decernable change in characteristics floating around the 10Mhz resonant point?

It's because there's nothing in the core that resonates around 10MHz.   That 10MHz figure you have is for nuclear magentic resonance imaging.  At the atomic level, that means:

- You apply an enormous magnetic field.

- Like a clock spring attached to a flywheel, the magnetic field keeps the atoms aligned in a particular direction.

- If you disturb the alignment, they'll oscillate back and forth at some frequency, again like the flywheel+spring.

- If disturb them with an oscillating force at that frequency, they'll resonate and their oscillations will grow (relatively) large.

Now, in exactly the same way that the resonant frequency of a wheel+spring depends on the strength of the spring, the resonant frequency of an atom in NMR depends on the strength of the magnetic field.

That is why the figures were quoted relative to H at 100MHz.  It means that if you apply a magnetic field of the strength that makes H resonate at 100MHz, then barium will resonate at 10MHz.

If you don't apply an enormous magnetic field at all, you don't have any of this kind of nuclear resonance at all.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 23, 2007, 09:45:49 PM
Hi fritz!

Hey nice but where you built Stifler circuit? So what you mix good fruit with bad?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 11:09:02 PM

If we are basing the results off of the barium ferrite core resonanting at a frequency of 10Mhz, then why is it a linear growth on the graph, with no decernable change in characteristics floating around the 10Mhz resonant point?

It's because there's nothing in the core that resonates around 10MHz.   That 10MHz figure you have is for nuclear magentic resonance imaging.  At the atomic level, that means:

- You apply an enormous magnetic field.

- Like a clock spring attached to a flywheel, the magnetic field keeps the atoms aligned in a particular direction.

- If you disturb the alignment, they'll oscillate back and forth at some frequency, again like the flywheel+spring.

- If disturb them with an oscillating force at that frequency, they'll resonate and their oscillations will grow (relatively) large.

Now, in exactly the same way that the resonant frequency of a wheel+spring depends on the strength of the spring, the resonant frequency of an atom in NMR depends on the strength of the magnetic field.

That is why the figures were quoted relative to H at 100MHz.  It means that if you apply a magnetic field of the strength that makes H resonate at 100MHz, then barium will resonate at 10MHz.

If you don't apply an enormous magnetic field at all, you don't have any of this kind of nuclear resonance at all.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy



The self resonant frequency of an AM ferrite antenna is around 10MHz.
This resonance is given by the inductivity of the coil and the parasitary
capacity of the winding. Every winding builds somewhat capacity to the
next winding. This distributed capacity forms a parallel LC circuit - in this
case with resonance around 10MHz.
The primary coil on top of the original coil forms another parasitary capacitor -
in our case around 20-40pF

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 11:20:11 PM
@fritz

so you are saying that we have an impedance matching issue? if thats the case here is one to consider,

does the impedance of the plug affect the driving circuit? (excluding the generator)
Even if you see no ground here on the schematic of part2, there is straight
ac/rf path from the led to the generator. Any change in this path - including
a measurement with the scope or a change in the connection to the generator
changes the load from the perspective of the generator. This is why a replacement
of the led against a big capacitor changes the current from the generator, the voltage
on series resistor R2.
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 11:22:14 PM
I am very confused now.

I have been reading up on alot of NMR and MRI just to make sure I have the science correct, and it seems that maximum spin happens after two variables are colide if you will. One is a minimum magnetic saturation (which is kinda like bias, as if you were to use a transistor you have to have a bias) and the other is frequency. From what I understand the bandwidth of activity in the elements is not very high at all, which is good in the medical field since it allows us to selectively see things.

here is a graph of an experiment where we would keep the magnetic field constant and vary the frequency

(http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/chap-3/images/cw-swb.gif)
http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/chap-3/images/cw-swb.gif
and here is one where we would vary the magnetic field

(http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/chap-3/c7-2.htm)
http://www.cis.rit.edu/htbooks/nmr/chap-3/c7-2.htm
the last animation does not work so I added the links in

as you can see we need to reach a certain magnetic field strength to see results.

But if  we have a narrow window of magnetic field strength and frequency,

how are we able to see results at super low power? I wouldnt think this is enough to bias the element
How come our output is not in some way connected to the graph of the spin (up to saturation) of barium since that is what is suposedly the key?

something is not adding up here. Definitly NOT CRYING FOUL, just saying I dont think we are even close to understanding the role of barium yet if any role at all.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 23, 2007, 11:24:13 PM
Hi fritz!

Hey nice but where you built Stifler circuit? So what you mix good fruit with bad?

Well, here is a little bit more of a similar circuit,
I?m not able to replicate it because I don?t have the right
cores nor the same breadboard.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 23, 2007, 11:24:38 PM
an interesting thought with no science to back it up.....


what if very little energy is needed to resonate atoms in a capacitive manor rather than a magnetic one? what implications would this have?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on October 23, 2007, 11:46:47 PM

The self resonant frequency of an AM ferrite antenna is around 10MHz.

Hi Fritz,  have you measured that to be around 10MHz or you judged?  If you only judged, I would say you are probably correct if you remove the ferrite rod from the coil and  refer to the self-resonant frequency of the now air core coil, right?.   

Because the high permeability of the ferrite core would still dominate the inductance of the coil at 10MHz (even though the permeability certainly gets reduced with increasing frequency) so the presence of the core would not let such a high self resonant frequency.  Do you agree?
My understanding is an AM ferrite antenna coil has approximatly  600-700uH of self inductance around 0.5-1MHz. Suppose it still has about 70uH inductance left at 10MHz, right?  This 70uH needs  about 1.5pF (distributed and parasitic capacitance) to resonate at 10MHz, right?  And the AM coil on the ferrite rod surely has higher than 1.5pF distributed cap due to the many turns of wire, this surely has to lower the self resonance frequency of the ferrite antenna well below 10MHz.

Kind regards
Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 23, 2007, 11:51:01 PM
@dork - Fritz is just doing what he can to try to figure this out and produce an explanation. That is a good thing, no? He has good intent and experience. At least he is doing experiments and posting results. I will defend my friend Fritz or Ron as long as they are trying to do science. (right or wrong) If they make a mistake, we will be kind to them for trying to explain something interesting or find something new. Neither of them have ill intent.

@ Fritz - Hey in one of the pictures with the crowbar (When I expand it to full size) where you are holding the LEDS, I noticed that the primary is not connected at either end but the signal is going through the secondary to the LEDS in your fingers. How is that a replication of the Stiffler circuit since Stiffler has an open end on one coil? Are you just trying to show that you can hold an LED and get it to light by touching the right power source and your body being a good impedance match? You mentioned the importance of impedance matching - Just curious.

Also, that ebay site sells variable capacitors  - do you think that would be helpful in tuning? Stiffler used a silver dipped mica cap. Do caps have reactance speeds?

The reason I ask is in the Meyer circuit, US patent 4798661, Meyer describes what looks like an air plate capacitor submerged in distilled water. Now why would someone go though the hassle of creating that if a simple off the shelf capacitor will work? Could someone teach me about charge/discharge speed of a capacitor?

Sure electricity goes through water quite fast but the charge or bond angle change is about 1mm per second. I am trying to take what I learn from this in regards to distributive capacitance on a transmission line and apply it to Meyer circuit since I keep seeing and hearing similar terms.

Glad to see this forum go back to the CE circuit too.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on October 23, 2007, 11:57:38 PM

(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
 
rgds.

Man on a wire ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcalasGr_uk
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: edork on October 24, 2007, 12:17:54 AM
Hi fritz!

Where White LED, Green LED lower voltage drop?

When you light 150 White LED like Stifler I shake your hand.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 12:20:33 AM

The self resonant frequency of an AM ferrite antenna is around 10MHz.

Hi Fritz,  have you measured that to be around 10MHz or you judged?  If you only judged, I would say you are probably correct if you remove the ferrite rod from the coil and  refer to the self-resonant frequency of the now air core coil, right?.   

Because the high permeability of the ferrite core would still dominate the inductance of the coil at 10MHz (even though the permeability certainly gets reduced with increasing frequency) so the presence of the core would not let such a high self resonant frequency.  Do you agree?
My understanding is an AM ferrite antenna coil has approximatly  600-700uH of self inductance around 0.5-1MHz. Suppose it still has about 70uH inductance left at 10MHz, right?  This 70uH needs  about 1.5pF (distributed and parasitic capacitance) to resonate at 10MHz, right?  And the AM coil on the ferrite rod surely has higher than 1.5pF distributed cap due to the many turns of wire, this surely has to lower the self resonance frequency of the ferrite antenna well below 10MHz.


I measured (my) coil with LCR meter at 1kHz -  has about 400uH - but it
has less winding than the "original".

To measure the self resonance frequency - I operated the primary coil (9 turns)
with my siggen from 1-20MHz.
I connected the tip of my osc probe to one end of the AM coil. (....)
There are regularly resonances with 120% nominal amplitude every 1.5Mhz (est.)
and a 300% resonance overshoot around 10MHz.

I agree with your estimates for the values at 10 Mhz - to measure this exactly - I
have to repair my other LC meter which is capable of measuring even with 10MHz
frequency ...

By moving the ferrite coil in and out at resonance frequency - shows a variation of
amplitude at the AM coil with a factor of lets say 5. On doing that - you can additional
watch the capacitiv coupling between both coils:
Very nice:
Hold one end of the AM coil (yes this side gets grounded by your finger than) - and move
the ferrite core in and out. You see precisely that the dominant coupling changes
at some point from capacitiv (ferrite out) to inductive - ferrite enters part where both
coils are on top of each other. Nice phase change, looks very good.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 12:31:36 AM

(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
 
rgds.

Man on a wire ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcalasGr_uk

This man is wearing feather-alike clothes, the wire is not that with
the real high voltage (look at the insulators).
I wont do that naked ;-)))
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on October 24, 2007, 12:32:12 AM

I measured (my) coil with LCR meter at 1kHz -  has about 400uH - but it
has less winding than the "original".

To measure the self resonance frequency - I operated the primary coil (9 turns)
with my siggen from 1-20MHz.
I connected the tip of my osc probe to one end of the AM coil. (....)
There are regularly resonances with 120% nominal amplitude every 1.5Mhz (est.)
and a 300% resonance overshoot around 10MHz.

I agree with your estimates for the values at 10 Mhz - to measure this exactly - I
have to repair my other LC meter which is capable of measuring even with 10MHz
frequency ...

Hi Fritz,  ok, thanks for your answer, I understand and agree most but please consider the oscilloscope probe has got a 13-15pF loading capacitance in parallel with its 10MegaOhm input resistance and that self capacitance significantly detunes the ferrite rod coil, right?  The best way to measure the self  resonance frequency would be to use a Grid Dip Meter (GDO for short) you surely know this calibrated LC oscillator that shows energy transfer to a passive tank circuit when it is near or at the resonant frequency of the passive tank.

Thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on October 24, 2007, 12:36:45 AM
Could someone teach me about charge/discharge speed of a capacitor?


Hi,

Here is an explanation on your question:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capchg.html    or see this:

http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3d.htm

Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 01:56:22 AM

I measured (my) coil with LCR meter at 1kHz -  has about 400uH - but it
has less winding than the "original".

To measure the self resonance frequency - I operated the primary coil (9 turns)
with my siggen from 1-20MHz.
I connected the tip of my osc probe to one end of the AM coil. (....)
There are regularly resonances with 120% nominal amplitude every 1.5Mhz (est.)
and a 300% resonance overshoot around 10MHz.

I agree with your estimates for the values at 10 Mhz - to measure this exactly - I
have to repair my other LC meter which is capable of measuring even with 10MHz
frequency ...

Hi Fritz,  ok, thanks for your answer, I understand and agree most but please consider the oscilloscope probe has got a 13-15pF loading capacitance in parallel with its 10MegaOhm input resistance and that self capacitance significantly detunes the ferrite rod coil, right?  The best way to measure the self  resonance frequency would be to use a Grid Dip Meter (GDO for short) you surely know this calibrated LC oscillator that shows energy transfer to a passive tank circuit when it is near or at the resonant frequency of the passive tank.

Thanks, Gyula

mmmh, I didn?t connect the scope ground lead -
checked that, if I remove the tip slightly - is still in resonance.
I could measure it with my analyzer, well, know GDOs, but don?t
have one.
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 02:10:26 AM
Circuit #7 Photo:

I would be highly interested what happens if there is only
a single ground wire going to the al shield and to the circuit.
Right now there are 2 grounds - and if you keep in mind that
we have 18 MHz - these 2 grounds have not the same potential.

....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 24, 2007, 02:52:06 AM

(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
 
rgds.

Man on a wire ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcalasGr_uk

This man is wearing feather-alike clothes, the wire is not that with
the real high voltage (look at the insulators).
I wont do that naked ;-)))
rgds.

Feather-like clothes lower the human body's capacitance?  This thread is really bringing out the (bird) brains, I guess.  Maybe Dr. Stiffler is wearing special feather-unlike-clothes?  I've heard some non-scientific arguments in my day, but this one is close to taking the cake!

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 02:56:09 AM

@ Fritz - Hey in one of the pictures with the crowbar (When I expand it to full size) where you are holding the LEDS, I noticed that the primary is not connected at either end but the signal is going through the secondary to the LEDS in your fingers. How is that a replication of the Stiffler circuit since Stiffler has an open end on one coil? Are you just trying to show that you can hold an LED and get it to light by touching the right power source and your body being a good impedance match? You mentioned the importance of impedance matching - Just curious.

Also, that ebay site sells variable capacitors  - do you think that would be helpful in tuning? Stiffler used a silver dipped mica cap. Do caps have reactance speeds?

The reason I ask is in the Meyer circuit, US patent 4798661, Meyer describes what looks like an air plate capacitor submerged in distilled water. Now why would someone go though the hassle of creating that if a simple off the shelf capacitor will work? Could someone teach me about charge/discharge speed of a capacitor?

Sure electricity goes through water quite fast but the charge or bond angle change is about 1mm per second. I am trying to take what I learn from this in regards to distributive capacitance on a transmission line and apply it to Meyer circuit since I keep seeing and hearing similar terms.

Glad to see this forum go back to the CE circuit too.

Well - if you look at the name of the picture "coil as conductor" -
this is NO stiffler replica NOR impedance matching.
It?s just a picture with the leds, the ground, ambient ground from my finger.
(and the coil as connection); quite happy that somebody caught me ;-)
I don?t have the needed material so far (toy radio am coil) as well as I
don?t have the same type of breadboard/plate shield assembly.

I expect that the original circuit catches the energy in the same way I
do it here - with the difference that the coil + parasitary capacitors form
a parallel LC circuit wich oscillates with 18MHz. This is the reason why
the energy can be transfered using the parasitary capacitors - in my case
I have 50 Hz - no way to do it "one wire". Additional the impedance is matched
which gives this high output.

As long as the stuff is build on this breadboard - its quite difficult to judge,
where you have to put in the variable capacitor. Some of this stuff is forming
an LC circuit - if you put the cap in parallel to that you can of course change
the resonant frequency.

Almost any adjustable cap is designed for rf operation (at least for the frequencies
used here). There are ceramic and foil based trimmers  with up to 50pf maximum
capacity.

The resonance frequency is calculated by f = 1/(2*pi*root(L*C))
f in Hz, L in Henry and C in Farad.
In case you put an extra C in parallel Cnew = C+Cadded

I think that Meyer uses this C submerged in water to get somehow
a C with dielectric behaviour as a C in water. This C is used in a setup
where water is treated by use of electrodes - another capacitor of course.
If one C changes its properties (water temperature or whatever) the other
C will experience the same effect... does this make some sense to you ?
If you would need an adjustable C which should be tuned in a controlling
loop - this would be the easiest sollution - instead of measuring something
and tune a capacitor with motor or whatever.

Another idea is - that Meyer was so used to water caps as Keely to resonators;-)))
a waterhead.
Why taking a traditional cap if there is so much water around ?

The last idea - and maybe thats the reason - that tuneable caps are for rf and not
for high energy pulsed designs.

rgds.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 24, 2007, 03:08:10 AM
Duh, I'm sorry I was unintentionally feeding the troll here, while not being aware that doc stiffler had expanded his experiment page and added detailed photos and more information.

I appologize to the rest of the readers of this thread if they found my remarks about lack of clarity inappropriate, I should've checked doc stiffler's page first. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 24, 2007, 03:15:26 AM

(This is the point why birds can sit on high voltage wires - and humans cannot)
(The capacity of a bird to ground is very low - evolutionary ???;-))darwin?)
 
rgds.

Man on a wire ???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcalasGr_uk

This man is wearing feather-alike clothes, the wire is not that with
the real high voltage (look at the insulators).
I wont do that naked ;-)))
rgds.

Feather-like clothes lower the human body's capacitance?  This thread is really bringing out the (bird) brains, I guess.  Maybe Dr. Stiffler is wearing special feather-unlike-clothes?  I've heard some non-scientific arguments in my day, but this one is close to taking the cake!

Linda

If you have a human in an overall with lets say 15 layers of isolator-conductive shield-isolator..
then this lowers or even zeroes (if faraday cage alike) the amount of polarization current which effects the human being (his skin)
in a "human capacitor" setup.

I expect that the reduced size of skin in combination with feathers reduces the polarization
current of bird skin .....

Do I really get the cake ?? very hungry.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on October 24, 2007, 06:04:38 AM
Yes...chocolate or angel food?  Of course, either one you choose will be covered with bird-feathers!

Linda

Seriously...I find this thread fascinating, but only because of Dr. Stiffler's experiments which I do not pretend to understand.  Too many variables and unknowns and the setup keeps changing.  It is certainly interesting but it's too helter-skelter and uncontrolled for me to start really learning anything very solid yet.  I await the settling down of this batch of experiments to a basis that demonstrates a clear principal.  If that has happened already, my bird-brain must have missed it!

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 08:50:58 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2007, 12:16:46 PM
I figured it out! I figured it out! Nener nener nener! and two of Stifflers own scope shots prove it! Ha! Take that you dogs!

Email me Fritz, you were the closest of all of them. Keep it to yourself, feed these "bird brains" nothing. If you can't keep it to yourself, don't email me.

Ha! You lose trolls!


@Freenrg4me

I sincerely hope you are joking.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 24, 2007, 12:55:25 PM
My web pages has thoughts about Tesla's transmitter.
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07.html)
I try understand this (Stiffler) circuit.
Near his places is 50 kW AM station.
In basic (from his pages), this circuit is dipole, and LED's are on one side of that dipole (two diode with its capacity is rectifier of this left/right dipole flow).
When some Tesla's style transmitter transform energy, it has two output frequency. Second can be very high, and depend about k (coupling coefficient). It is important, because it is not well know phenomena.

If here is some 'free energy', it's source could be human or natural phenomena. But it is only HF receiver.
Ground is important with ionosphere, and it is path for all that energy.
Tesla was talking about radiant part in his transmitter, and ground current. His device is optimize for 90% of ground current. Places for antenna is irrelevant (horizontal or vertical). It is just capacity.
Basic Tesla's receiver are two grounding plates (on some distance) with mechanical rotating rectifier. Here is self induction with high Q, which make possible build rectifier with diode.

I have some new equation for mathematical understanding Tesla's work.

Good luck for seeking on 'free energy'.
Stiffler has found interesting receiver...
Maybe replacement for Tesla's mechanical rotation receiver switch?
All that thundering around Earth, has ground currents, and who knows, maybe here is some natural source, but that 50 kW AM is my concern.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 03:37:17 PM
@ Branko

Buzzer sound Buzzzz  - Wrong answer Branko, please try again. :-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 03:40:26 PM
@ AhuraMazda What? You didn't want it figured out? It's hardly the kind of thing I would joke about. It was patented back in the early 90's
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 06:33:45 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2007, 06:50:23 PM
@Elvis!
Thanks. That was very good deduction. If you have replicated Dr S's circuit, you can easily prove your finding by using a black and white film and holding it near your BAFE and see if the film got exposed. Of course you may have a giga counter in which case problem solved.

Long time ago, Dr Stiffler gave me the cold shoulder. He said he would not work with any one who did not have at least 50K worth of test gear!
I am still waiting for my cores and have bought a new scope just for the occasion!

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/mmcgen.htm

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 24, 2007, 08:31:59 PM
Freenrg4me

I applaud your efforts! You have great ideas, and are a wonderful observer.

However we are dedicated to the peaceful dessemination of information that could lead us away from oil dependancy, which does not seem to resonante well with you nametag, which is in itself a bit selfish.

I really do hope you stick around and continue to help the cause, but please dont encurage others to stray from it through secracy, we have enough of that inherent in the system we live.

@ all

Could we please exercize a little restraint and focus on the issue at hand without such large damaging tangents? I think that 90 percent of us here strive for the same cause, so why do we fight? what happened to constructive criticism? what happened to taking comments with a grain of salt. Dont be so hypersensitive!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 08:35:09 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 24, 2007, 08:48:35 PM
@ armagdn03

I think the "Issue" is being examined and I think it has been explained by my post regarding this circuit.

@ Doctor S. I noticed you have removed the "Cold Electricity" claim from your web site suddenly. Is that how you let people know that my explanation of the circuit is correct without that 50k in gear?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 24, 2007, 09:03:37 PM
Time this nonsense stop. For those that are really interested in my work I will answer questions as best I can to those really wanting to see what it is about.

I made a big mistake in taking someone into an inner circle where 'He' was privileged to see advance information before being given to the public. He abused that trust by informing me that 'He' and Fritz were working together? Fritz I don't know, and it makes no difference, you are one of the few that has posted anything close to engineering and looking at the circuits and offering input. Should you be a friend of 'He', maybe you should rethink that.

Ground rules for me staying in the forum and trying to explain and help in replication.

1) I can not waste time if you do not intend to 'Duplicate'. I have no room for talking theory. Work with the electronics as I am presenting or we have nothing to talk about. Once replication is accomplished we can move to theory.

2) Don' think you are going to jump right into what you all seem to call "Free Energy" I have already stated all over the internet I do not believe in such things.

3) Start your work with the single coil, one LED and a neon, driven by a signal generator as shown on my web site. When you can indeed get this basic circuit working we have very much a common ground to move forward from.

4) I will not answer anyone by private email, would have except for 'He'.

5) As soon as the "CRAP" starts up from whoever I'm out of here and you all can go back to your whatever.

SO LETS BEGIN?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 24, 2007, 09:06:10 PM
@Freenrg4mee

Perhaps this could be discussed in another thread, just so not to clutter things up?

Also, very interesting ideas about the source of the power in this circuit. I was under the impression though that to get the kind of NMR you are speaking of, it took many Teslas of magnetism to bias the atoms. This is why nothing ferrous can be in the vicinity of an MRI machine, or it will become a lethal projectile sucked into the center. Do you think that this can be overcome somehow? Is he doing it at 1 volt somehow?
Also if this is the case, do you think this circuit still uses capacitive coupling to send this power down a single wire?
I?m just trying to paint a full picture here, but unfortunately Lora is right, this experiment has become very complicated in that many new variables are introduced / observed. This should be very simple! But allas I only have several thousand worth of measuring equipment,  I guess im not in the same league as the big boys.

Wonder how science made it through the centuries without ten thousand dollar multi trace digital capture scopes and signal analyzers? Miracle of chance if you ask me.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 24, 2007, 09:09:49 PM
Wonderful!

I have a replication, I would like to throw on the table, but am going to be out of town for a bit.

LET THE REPLICATIONS BEGIN!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on October 24, 2007, 09:17:29 PM
@Freenrg4me: sounds interesting and maybe plausible. Do you say, this circuit is a little nuclear power station? This is a free energy and (not from the sun in any kind). Unfortunately it would polute environment and we already have it everywhere in the world whith its disadvantages.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 24, 2007, 09:22:22 PM
One important thing, I can only check a few times a day and most likely will respond in the majority at night CDT.

So please be patient, I have a vested interest in a group REALLY working and 'Duplicating' this.

Oh! stop with the Radio Station close to the Lab concern. Gentleman I have been a Ham radio operator from the 70's and yes I had to learn code, WA7RTQ I hold a General Class License. I held a Radio Telephone 1st Class License until the FCC  changed it to a General Class at which time they grandfathered me to a Life Time General Class License.

I was a Broadcast Engineer for many years, TV, AM, FM Stereo and Common Carrier, I was involved with the reception of the Moon Walk video and microwave communications during the Vietnam war, I know how to be sure what I am doing is not from a Radio Station, Please lets not go there and waste time.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tak22 on October 24, 2007, 09:43:25 PM
@Rstiffler

Thank you for participating here. I have cores on the way and will replicate your basic circuit.

As for the 'noise' in this forum it's about as good as it's going to get considering the type of forum it is, and you can quickly learn to tune/filter it out. You've got everyones attention here so I hope you will continue to participate, and I second the suggestion that you start your own replication thread.

Serious replication attempts will draw in the serious people from this group.

tak
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 24, 2007, 10:36:52 PM
For those that are or have purchased coils, I have heard that some are receiving them in different configurations and some with center taps.

I have included a couple of pictures that show what they should look like. The coil does not have a center tap and there is what I feel is a stiffener on one side that has a red paint dot on it. I checked this bar and it has a measurable resistance, although high. The coils do not display any residual magnetism, they are not biased. If you receive a different coil, all may not be lost. Compare the L of the coil with what I specify. If it has a center tap, check from the center to either end. It could be that the coil is larger or smaller. Should you have a coil question post it and we will see if we can make it work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2007, 10:51:12 PM
@Freenrg4me,
I can see you have a lot of energy and imagination! Please can you focus on replicating the circuit? I am sure we can all learn from Dr S.

I dare say you are beginning to sound a bit like Bruce Per...
I have been a member of overunity for a long time and have seen people with talent to genuinely contribute being driven away by pointless chatter. I ( as well as many others ) am very happy that Ron has decided to actively help and this is a wonderful opportunity for all of us to investigate something.

This thread is "Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler". If you choose you can start a thread of your own. I suggest "self defeating pointless banter from Freenrg4me"!

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 24, 2007, 10:53:36 PM
I second that motion !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 24, 2007, 11:08:52 PM
@Ron
Some of what we know is second hand knowledge. Please confirm, in your opinion does the Barium element play a part in this and if it does, is there a way of characterizing the core. I have boxes full of old and new cores of all shapes and sizes but none like the specified samples. I am expecting the ones suggested any day now.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 24, 2007, 11:59:35 PM
@AhuraMazda

Two things are no longer of significance until shown otherwise.

1) Effect caused by Ba content in the cores. This was built upon from another group where one of my circuits was shown. Because of frequencies an how the circuit responded it was a viable idea, for awhile. I have not run spectral analysis on any of the cores, I am taking  what was told me by the supplier that the cores were BaFe among other things.

2) I have posted on my web site and have stated I am not sure this has anythis to do with so called 'Cold Electricity'. If I knew how to identify it for sure I might still lean in that direction because of how the current reacts. There are many that state they know what CE is, selling books and CD's, but I have never seen a present day circuit.

As it stands I do have some ideas and will talk about them, but as I have said, this comes after some duplication. Knowing what it is does not help in creating it.

Short answer, may not be Ba and may not be CE, by whatever guideline is used for the identification.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 25, 2007, 02:41:45 AM
Quote
I exposed her private detective buddy in another thread. It took me two days to get him so unglued he told me enough to to determine exactly who he is, where he lives and his phone number. It's posted.

@Freenrg4me:

My company name is all over the internet so wow, it was real hard for you to find it, great researching buddy. With research like this it's a wonder you can find your ass to clean it.  I thought you said like 3 times that "this is my last post on this forum"  Why don't you do all of us a favor and stick to your word.

Unglued? You don't know me pal....ha ha.  Take a hike.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 25, 2007, 02:42:19 AM
@Freenrg4me,
Did you already get your 60 + cores ?

please shut up in this thread until you have built the circuit from Ron.
Otherwise I will put you on read only.

It is not useful to speculate where the energy comes from
and play your games over here ,if you did not
built it yourself.
Just build it and measure it and post your results.

Many thanks for understanding.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 25, 2007, 03:41:14 AM
Quote
God I'm going to miss this place
Quote
[
quote]Now I must find that unsubscribe button. Hey Harmann, delete my account. I though with it
Quote
It's been fun Nazis!
Quote
Final thought
Quote
That's my answer and my final rant
Quote
I'll start with me. Best of luck to all of you.
C-ya
Quote
I am out of here - good luck.



All above quotes from Freenrg4me.  Why isn't he leaving already then?  He should so we can go back to O.U. research without the stupid remarks and threats of his leaving.  Leave already.  Don't say it...do it.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 04:10:48 AM
Stephan,

I have no interest in building something radioactive now that I figured out how it works. I stayed around to clear that up for some of the less intelligent people that may try to replicate.

However, after reading Bills last few posts, I must ask myself the question why did he suddenly pop in here and why would I care if he built something that can harm him. :-)

Bill, if you promise to build all 60 of them and sleep with them, I will ship them to you for free. :-)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 25, 2007, 04:18:03 AM
Stephan,

I have no interest in building something radioactive now that I figured out how it works. I stayed around to clear that up for some of the less intelligent people that may try to replicate.

However, after reading Bills last few posts, I must ask myself the question why did he suddenly pop in here and why would I care if he built something that can harm him. :-)

Bill, if you promise to build all 60 of them and sleep with them, I will ship them to you for free. :-)



Itis not radioactive !
Otherwise how would every AM radio otherwise function ?
Please stop hammering onto Dr. Stiffler and start building
or sell me a few cores.
Otherwise, please shut up over here.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 25, 2007, 04:35:00 AM
Why don't we just put it to a vote:

All of you who are for banning the "radioactive man" and his paranoid, delusional and trolling comments from this thread (or heck, from this site altogether) say "AYE".

Then the rest of us who are honestly interested in replicating doc stiffler's experiment can continue to do so without being sidetracked.

Here's my AYE !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 05:22:56 AM

Itis not radioactive !
Otherwise how would every AM radio otherwise function ?
Please stop hammering onto Dr. Stiffler and start building
or sell me a few cores.
Otherwise, please shut up over here.


Dear Stephan,

I guess you didn't know that AM radio does not operate at 21MHZ. They operate in the KHZ range. I suppose you also didn't know that the coil with those power levels at 21MHZ is far more power than AM band since we need to count the pulses and then add up all that energy.

Maybe you can buy a crystal diode radio and learn about coils, diode, ground, antenna and earphone too!

Maybe you can try placing an aluminum sheet under it so now you have two ground to see if that doubles the frequency like Fritz says?

Thank you for asking the question, I hope that helps you out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 06:02:21 AM
@ mrramos

The cores were like 2 bucks each and they come with the Litz coil on them. You might want to wait a few days to see if I get mine. Shipping was about another 5 - 10 bucks.

How will you measure the alpha and beta output?

The fact is I kept that patent for about 8 years now because I planned to build it. It is simple and a well known technology. The difference between me and most people here is I also have nuclear power training from the military. Another difference is that I KNOW what I am playing with but it would be immoral and a fraud to tell someone that something does not emit radiation when it is well known that if resonated as the scope shots clearly showed, it will will be.

I am not hammering on anyone or anything for that matter, it is just that kids and inexperienced people come here, learn tricks and then try them. They should be fully informed, not disinformed, they should have training on things like shielding and half life, they should work in a place that is away from children or others, the area should be well marked with the proper signs, proper clothing/gloves should be worn, the ability to measure and detect radiation levels, eye protection and that list just keeps going.

Ferro resonant transformer - Larger aircraft use a 400hz frequency for ground power so that the core mass of the components on board can be smaller/lighter. Notice the patent shows 400hz output?

 I'm both a helicopter and fixed wing pilot and learned about it from a mechanic a long time ago. I have spotted an article on the web on converting ground power to OU a long time ago, don't remember where and it was a MG set with a transformer as I recall.

As far as creating OU? Hell yea, it is no secret that this works. But then there are lots of ways to create OU that are totally safe and fun. I just ran into another one yesterday that is so simple that someone that does not even know how a radio works could build it and understand it. Good for the kids to play with, simple and a real brain teaser.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 25, 2007, 06:44:18 AM
help what?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 07:09:17 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 07:14:02 AM
@ armagdn03 Wow, Just a few hours ago, you stated that you had replicated and wish you could just throw that up on table and show us but had to leave town for a few days.

I could understand why you might think about leaving town, it's good to away when you can.

But hey, as long as you are here, throw that bad boy up on the table now! I want to see that replication and then, mramos won't have to buy any of those special cores, a signal generator and about 20 of the LEDS.

So that would help and I hope that answers your help what question. Whip it out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 25, 2007, 08:23:40 AM
@Freenrg4me
Even if radioactivity is involved in this, that would not deter me. I would learn how to handle that. I am sure lots of other people are not put off either. I remember a guy who left the hydroxy group when he discovered hydrogen can explode! As for patenting a free energy device, look at the history, You can not sell it. I can remind you of Stanly Meyer.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 08:32:55 AM
Wonderful!

I have a replication, I would like to throw on the table, but am going to be out of town for a bit.

LET THE REPLICATIONS BEGIN!

Still waiting for that replication.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 25, 2007, 08:49:54 AM
I see on net ( http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1589323258906115584 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1589323258906115584) ) some working replica of Steven Mark device. It has lamp (around 100 W I think) and it was on full light. Input was around 40 V, and instrument (analog) think that too. Amperes was less than 1 A (digital instrument say that). First mistake was measuring high frequency with digital instrument, not build for high frequency. Its numbers are not real. How I know? Signal generator say that input is around 40 V and 3 A. It is more than 100 W and it is easy to light up that bulb. But how lamp light on, with 40 V and it is for 220V (or 110V, I write from my memory now)? Here is self induction HF transformer. If some coil (inductive) has frequency input on coil, voltage can go up (U=2PIf*L/R). Tesla use third coil for increase voltage, and input was 'frequency driver'. In equation R is not same like DC. It need HF equations for R (Medhurst). If instrument measure 10 ohm, it could be 100 ohm. I have some good equation on my web (my own investigation with Tesla's transformer).

If this device work, it need understanding. I try understand. I know, great electric power is on ionosphere-earth, and great power is inside Earth. We are between this two energy source.
Maybe this device is capture some 'cosmic energy' (Tesla talk about that). But it need more than LED's, and if it light up bulb, it must be out of generator on input, because generator can do that alone. Tesla talk about capturing energy from cosmic ray (it work day and night). And this device is maybe right direction on Tesla's forget science.

But, please try understand what device is. We don't want energy source, without understanding. Great energy can do explosion. Tesla try open path to ionosphere in 1900. Is he know that 1800A of great voltage will come down? Like Tunguska explosion where some asteroid open that electric path and discharge Earth capacity (my thoughts about that explosion). Maybe nature is rescue his head. If he knew that, maybe he is try use that electric source.

Don't ignore my point, because maybe you work on new energy source... What will you do if LED's become atomic bomb? I think it will not, but understanding is important...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 08:59:56 AM
@Freenrg4me
Even if radioactivity is involved in this, that would not deter me. I would learn how to handle that. I am sure lots of other people are not put off either. I remember a guy who left the hydroxy group when he discovered hydrogen can explode! As for patenting a free energy device, look at the history, You can not sell it. I can remind you of Stanly Meyer.

Well, here is the problem we have.
1. Stiffler and Hartman have denied radioactivity.
2. Most people do not have training in this area.
3. Underage people can learn how to do that here. Can they be held responsible for their actions? Nope, but Stiffler, Harman and the cabal can.

I think Madam Currie and Floyd Sweet both learned safe nuclear handling techniques on the job through trial and error. They knew what not to do just before they both died.

I applaud your enthusiasm though. It is a well known fact that you can just go to your nearest nuclear power plant after dark and tell the guard at the gate you "will not be deterred." They usually keep a big box of weapons grade U236 there in 1 kilo chucks to hand out as samples to the tourists.

Try and pick one out the glows the greenest, that means it is the "freshest" just picked sample. Never mix the good fruit with the bad so to speak.

Anyway, wrap your coil around that and trust me, (remember only 9 turns with a half turn on each end) you are going to be amazed! So be sure to take lots of friends with you. Peer pressure will break your average weak knee man in a minute.

They give the pretty girls plutonium, it just isn't fair is it? I guess the girls are more careful not to drop plutonium. I wouldn't want to imply that the guards are sexist. But remember to look that guard in the eye and be firm when you tell him "I will not be deterred." Salesmanship baby, it's everything in this biz right?

"As for patenting a free energy device, look at the history, " Yeah, like I said, you just have to ask and be firm. Let me know how that works out O.K.? The group is behind you on this one all the way.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 25, 2007, 09:44:55 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: b0rg13 on October 25, 2007, 11:03:54 AM
@Freenrg4me, I think youve done a fantastic job of convincing all of us that your a nut-job,maybe you can piss off now ?. ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 25, 2007, 11:37:46 AM
@Freenrg4me
Either I need lead underpants for this project or you need a doctor!

I still think you can contribute positively to this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 25, 2007, 11:50:11 AM
@Freenrg4me,
it is enough now.

Please stop posting here.
This is the last warning.
Built the thing and then come back with your results.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 25, 2007, 12:51:23 PM
Dear All,

I discovered this platform and thought:
oh, what a nice place to share information
and to get/give advice on certain issues.

Well I didn?t realize that I enter a quite
complex global role game with inventors,
gurus, priests, followers, replicators, thinkers
and whatever.

I?m up to start a new thing - will post it here -
and if somebody is interested - we can do
something.

I?m not interested in replicating such setups -
if I look at the weird stuff I have at home - we can
play this game forever - no interest.

I thought the major task of free energy is the
fight against entropy.

Well, if I look at this thread and how we communicate -
thats not simply entropy - thats entropy to the power of
something ...

regards,

Fritz
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 25, 2007, 12:58:47 PM
Barium is like tungsten (electric interesting elements). Great energy from Sun in form of 'neutrino' going through us (see Wikipedia). Neutrino can transform neutron/proton system (and anti-proton too). If someone can capture that neutrino energy, and transform in useful form (electricity), it will be new energy source. Greatest than nuclear.

If some new source of energy is here, we need understanding, before releasing energy. Stay on low energy, and do experiments. And don't do it alone. Share it. It could be good protection for some mistake.

When voltage go high, it can make X-rays (electron in vacuum). If that 2 Vpp is make 'neon' light to fire up (high voltage generation), what we will have with high voltage on input?

I will advise caution with barium and tungsten experiment.

All water or acid soluble barium compounds are extremely poisonous. (from Wikipedia). Lot of Ba isotope are stable, but Ba133 is 10 years radioactive. Is that BaFe from China clear of 133? Some ferite work, some not. Why? Think about that...

High electron acceleration can release atomic energy.

It is OK with low voltage. But understanding is important, if we go up with energy (and voltage too).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 25, 2007, 01:35:32 PM
Before understanding as the device works understanding as make it work to the best, according to the Stiffler indications is necessary.
Has Stiffler thought it would mount the device on a printed circuit or "in air" ? To verify if the hrdware used by him is binding or they can there be an alternative constructive solutions.
I would like to ask also a question to Stiffler:
the producer and the code of the components, especially coils and block of ferrite, so that it can do some tests.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2007, 03:31:35 PM
Before understanding as the device works understanding as make it work to the best, according to the Stiffler indications is necessary.
Has Stiffler thought it would mount the device on a printed circuit or "in air" ? To verify if the hrdware used by him is binding or they can there be an alternative constructive solutions.
I would like to ask also a question to Stiffler:
the producer and the code of the components, especially coils and block of ferrite, so that it can do some tests.


I have listed a complete parts list on my web site.

The antenna loop sticks were ordered from ebay and all I can supply you is the link under which they were ordered;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPT.dll?ViewItem&item=150076605464 They were $1.45US at the time.

These coils were at the time ordered for a very mundane project not connected to this one.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 25, 2007, 04:11:34 PM
DR. Stifler

By your estimate, how many turns would you say the primary has on AM antennae?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 25, 2007, 04:22:35 PM
Dr. Stiffler just updated his website with interesting new
measurements.
Have a look:

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 25, 2007, 04:51:35 PM
@RStiffler

Have you ever tried your circuit out of your lab, may be somewhere a few miles away?
I for one am looking for overunity but I don't want fall over myself.
With the two transmitters in the vicinity of your lab some related weird phenomena may be at play.
Although in your videos you shielded the circuit and disproved RF pick up, still there is an area of doubt
which should be removed.

Best Regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2007, 05:12:00 PM
DR. Stifler

By your estimate, how many turns would you say the primary has on AM antennae?


I have addressed that the best possible on my site. The Primary is hand wound by the user and is 9 turns. The number of turns in the secondary is unknown, although as I have stated when tested it appears to be a 1:1.7 step up ratio.

I also list the Z (impedance) of each winding, off and on the core. You can use the following formula to look at it however you wish for turns ratio.

Tr -> turns ratio
Ns->#turns secondary - Np->#turns primary
Vs ->voltage secondary - Vp-> voltage primary
Ip->current primary - Is->current secondary

Tr = Na/Np  ...... Tr = Vs/Vp  ...... Tr = Ip/Is

Impedance ratio

Tr = sqrt(Zs/Zp) where Zs and Zp are respective impedances of of secondary and primary.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2007, 05:19:48 PM
@RStiffler

Have you ever tried your circuit out of your lab, may be somewhere a few miles away?
I for one am looking for overunity but I don't want fall over myself.
With the two transmitters in the vicinity of your lab some related weird phenomena may be at play.
Although in your videos you shielded the circuit and disproved RF pick up, still there is an area of doubt
which should be removed.

Best Regards

I understand your concerns, yet this is outside of the guidelines I established for participation in this forum.

If you can not accept my ability to know if this is or is not a factor, I do not see how you could not question every aspect of this work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 25, 2007, 06:19:02 PM
Thank you for pointing that out, I must have missed it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 25, 2007, 06:39:17 PM
Unfortunately the link on ebay which you have sent me is not active:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPT.dll?ViewItem&item=150076605464 They were $1.45US at the time.

The information on your web site are really complete and is possible to replay your experiments.
The biggest problem, for me, is to obtain the loop sticks aerial. I think that the best thing is to know the diameter of the thread and then the number of coils, trying the building.
I Know that reduce the possibility of success, but I do not know thing other do.
Is it possible to use a red LED to replace the blu LED ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2007, 07:46:14 PM
Unfortunately the link on ebay which you have sent me is not active:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPT.dll?ViewItem&item=150076605464 They were $1.45US at the time.

The information on your web site are really complete and is possible to replay your experiments.
The biggest problem, for me, is to obtain the loop sticks aerial. I think that the best thing is to know the diameter of the thread and then the number of coils, trying the building.
I Know that reduce the possibility of success, but I do not know thing other do.
Is it possible to use a red LED to replace the blu LED ?

As far as cores all I can do is direct you to earlier in the thread where another eBay address is posted. I have no idea what the seller is selling, best you find that link and contact him. There are picture of the cores I use in this thread, use them when you talk to the seller to insure what you are getting.

Early in the research I tried other cores, torus, transformer E sections and some pot cores. I did not get them to work. That does not say you may not, but I can not assist on this.

Other LEDS yes, I like White because they produce a useful light output, where as the Red, Blue and Green would be in my mind novelty usage. Remember the the forward drops on the LEDS may be quit different and of all of them you will get quick success from the Red's, yet it may be false success as Red LEDS can show display from static electricity or from 60Hz induction.

Good Luck...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rburley on October 25, 2007, 09:31:50 PM
Hi
 An idea to find out the power out of the circuit.
Remove the LED's and replace with a resistor.
Run the circuit and read the temperature of the resistor.
Then remove the resistor place it on a DC power supply and get the resistor to the same temperature as it was in the circuit.
The DC power supply will give you the DC current and voltage, so you have the DC power needed to get the resistor to the same temperature as when it was in the circuit.

You can check the DC current flow to the oscillator with and without the circuit connected, and so you can find out the power in to power out.

Just an idea.
All the best Roger
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 25, 2007, 11:05:41 PM
In e-bay i have found the "FERRITELOOP STIK ANTENNA" (thi is the keyword in google to find it), is difficult for me to be able to make it to me send, I will now look for something of equal in Italy.
Thank Stiffler for the help!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 26, 2007, 12:54:09 AM
Search for  "Ferrite Loopstick Antenna"

Here is the dealers store on ebay
http://stores.ebay.com/Hard-to-find-Electronic-Parts

Here is a 680uh
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ferrite-Loopstick-Antenna-Coil-Crystal-Radio-680uh_W0QQitemZ150174158900QQihZ005QQcategoryZ7275QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Here is a 470uh
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ferrite-Loopstick-Antenna-Coil-Crystal-Radio-470uh_W0QQitemZ150174159109QQihZ005QQcategoryZ7275QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem       
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 26, 2007, 11:54:57 PM
I just made a few tests with this principle circuit
and made it much simpler.
You just need a ferrite choke , a signal generator and 3 blue or
white LEDs and a big metal mesh.

You can use the 3 LEDs to build the Avramenko plug,so you don?t need
the 2 x 1N4148 diodes.

This has the advantage, that the current through the 2 Avramenko rectifier diodes
also puts out light.

The whole thing is a resonance effect and probably a parasitric capacitive coupling to
the signal generator ground.

But with the right ferrite choke you can enhance the effect.
I have recorded a video and will try to upload it now here or
at youtube.
It is pretty long, so I guess I better put it to youtube.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 12:29:58 AM
The video was a Quicktime MOV with AVC codecs
from my new Aiptek AHD-200 camera with 720x480 30 frames/sec
and had 170 MB, about 11:30 min.

Now I am uploading it directly to Google video, cause Youtube has
a 100 MB and 10 minutes limit.
I am also trying to convert it to a smaller AVI video and
put it onto overunity.com directly.

Regards, Stefan.
P.S: Now the google video uploader has already uploaded 35 MB of it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 27, 2007, 12:37:20 AM
I just made a few tests with this principle circuit
and made it much simpler.
You just need a ferrite choke , a signal generator and 3 blue or
white LEDs and a big metal mesh.

You can use the 3 LEDs to build the Avramenko plug,so you don?t need
the 2 x 1N4148 diodes.

This has the advantage, that the current through the 2 Avramenko rectifier diodes
also puts out light.

The whole thing is a resonance effect and probably a parasitric capacitive coupling to
the signal generator ground.

But with the right ferrite choke you can enhance the effect.
I have recorded a video and will try to upload it now here or
at youtube.
It is pretty long, so I guess I better put it to youtube.

Regards, Stefan.

Stefan;

So if you are using only LEDS are they all polarized in the same direction? Or is it a standard 'Plug' design and you have reversed one LED and it does not light? Don't the rectifiers on the plug take on the form of a full wave rectifier?

Waiting for the video.. Glad to see someone working on it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 27, 2007, 12:38:43 AM
I have bought, through ebay, the "ferriteloop stik aerial" and hope to be able to receive them in a short time.  I have rediscovered the work done by JLN in 1999 (http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm ), is very like as Stiffler experiment and while I wait for the aerials, I will retry the JLN experience.
tefan, also you have made the JLN experiments ? If yes, can give me some advices ? Have the idea that there are many elements in council with the Stiffler experiment, elements which are not evaluated carefully of 1999.
The bigger difference between the two experiments is the frequency used for the oscillator, JLN uses 10 KHz, Stiffler, if I do not mistake, uses frequencies about 5-10 MHz.
How for almost all the JLN experiments, when the experiment giving the first interesting results, JLN cut off him,  having further details has not been so possible.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 01:19:03 AM
My small ferrite transformer is called:
EFD 30/15/9

It has as core material N27 ferrite.
The coil I am using from it has 650 milliOhm DC resistance.
This ferrite transfomer has several coils on it,
but I am just using this one, as this gave the best light output.
So it is basically a ferrite choke.
I don?t use a transformer with 2 coils as Dr. Stiffler did.
You will see it all on the video.

My function generator normally only goes to 200 Khz ,
but I used a setting between the knob raster, so there the frequency
was much higher and I could go up to about 3 Mhz.


So all one has to do to scale this effect up now is
to use a very sharp edges pulse generator with very fast rise and
fall time and using just one wire output to go the right big ferrite choke
and then in series with the ferrite choke going to a few LEDs arranged as an Avramenko plug and then to a big metal mesh
or metal screen hanging isolated in the air, so it can catch free electrons from the air.

You will see it all in the video.
I have now converted the video also to an about 37 MB AVI file with DIVX.com codec
and MP3 audio sound.

I am now also uploading it to overunity.com into a subdirectory.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 01:57:46 AM

Stefan;

So if you are using only LEDS are they all polarized in the same direction? Or is it a standard 'Plug' design and you have reversed one LED and it does not light? Don't the rectifiers on the plug take on the form of a full wave rectifier?

Waiting for the video.. Glad to see someone working on it.

Yes,like the normal Avramenko plug configuration.

I am then using a wire at the one pin of the "output" LED to go to the mesh.

You will see it in the video, when I finally get it uploaded.

Google video did not seem to like my AVC codec from my camera,
so 170 MB upload was wasted. It can not convert it to FLASH.
Okay, now I upload it directly to overunity.com as the AVI.
Stay tuned.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 02:17:50 AM
Okay, here already 3 pictures of the test attached.

Now my FTP program to upload the video is also "choking.."...
Murphy?s law again... Grrr... :o
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 03:05:52 AM
My provider just has server problems, so the Control panel
Filemanager upload is also not working and also the FTP is not working.
I am now trying to upload the video to Google Video in the new AVI format,
which has DIVX codec and MP3 audio and is 37 MB big.

I hope this time it will work...


Well, I just tried this setup now with just one instead of the 3 Avramenko-plug setup-LEDs
but that did not work.
Also if I turn reverse the one LED.
Only if I use 2 LEDs in antiparallel (one conducting and the other nonconducting)
then it also works with just 2 LEDs.

Also with more than 3 LEDs it also works.
Just put several more LEDs in parallel with the output LED at the Avramenko plug.
Surely then the brightness of all LEDs goes down a bit.
But if you are at resonance, then it is not much, if you just add 2 more diodes= 5 diodes in total.

Have not yet tried yet to put them in series.

Also I don?t seem to have so high voltages as Dr. Stiffler,
as I don?t get a neon bulb to light up anywhere near or at my circuit..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 27, 2007, 03:15:37 AM
I can put it on my Spiralmatrix server Stefan . you could email it to me through gmail.
Message me if you want to do this.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 03:40:00 AM
Hi,
now Google says the upload is okay and gives me this link:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-6675333812670515790

but when I try to view it it just comes up with:

This video is not available...
Can you see it already ?

Maybe it takes some time for them to convert it and put it
in their database ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 27, 2007, 03:43:06 AM
The video & sound are working 
Thank you
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 27, 2007, 04:03:55 AM
Stefan:

Great video!

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 04:11:41 AM
The video & sound are working 
Thank you

I can not see it yet myself,
but I uploaded the original AVI now also over here:

http://www.megaupload.com/de/?d=ANCKUSAZ

There you first have to paste in this 3 Number code into the form,
then wait a few seconds and then the download link will apear.

Hope this works out now for most of you.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xilusma on October 27, 2007, 04:18:10 AM
@Stefan,

Can't watch the video at you tube as of 27/10/2007 3.17 a.m.

???

Downloaded from megaupload - thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IronHead on October 27, 2007, 04:18:16 AM
@Stefan
Touch the wire that goes to the mesh,  to the  ferrite core .
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 04:25:02 AM
Here is my first n00b attempt in replication. Yes, I know I've done some things wrong but I was just too anxious to get some results... :)

I had to quickly build a signal generator so the cyan rectangle is the MAX038 driven ~10MHz sine signal generator (pathetic one as well used the spec. sheet circuit so it's pretty noisy as well)

Yellow rectangle is the Fig.01 circuit from doc. stiffler's webpage. My L1 is I hope around 2uH (grey cylinder thingy lower right corner of yellow rectangle). Since I do not have a precise LCR meter (Masterch DMM I have is pretty lousy and won't measure that low) I just picked something close enough, I'm sure if I had the right 2.2uH the LED would light up brighter.

My AM core is around 700uH taken from an old alarm clock with radio. I think you can use any kind of an old alarm clock with radio and butcher it up for the core, as long as the physical dimensions match.

Now, at first I did not have anything underneath (aluminium plate) but I noticed that it seems to be an integral part (most important?) of the circuit because after putting a small piece underneath and aligning it a bit, the LED lit up brighter. :o

Next step will be to put this on a real breadboard (I was lazy to do it originally since I already started the circuit on this tiny one). But hey, it works for what's it worth - just proves that you can make a terrible hack and still get something out of it. Thanks to doc. stiffler for making us use our heads... :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 04:34:30 AM
@Stefan,

Can't watch the video at you tube as of 27/10/2007 3.17 a.m.

???

Downloaded from megaupload - thanks

Hmm,
I myselfcan also not watch it yet over here in
Germany via the Versatel Internet provider,
where I have my DSL line...
Hmmm...

Seems Google Video might have different
server throughout the world and it has not gone
through all of them.

Ironhead, when I touched a few cables at different places, the light got weaker...

Instead of the metal mesh I justcan also run it versus my grounded scope.
The signal generator is not grounded. It is floating !
It has no ground connection.

I measured the voltage directly at the LEDs and it is
almost a sine wave with plus 5 Volt and about minus 3 Volts peaks
at the resonance frequency.
So although I put in a 0 to 12 Volts square wave via single wire from
the signal generator, I get almost pure AC
at the LEDs.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 04:48:35 AM
Okay, now also at my place the Google video is showing,

One more information about it.

The scope in the video was always connected directly across the
signal generator output, so you always see just this output there.

Of course I had connected also the scope ground to the
signal generator ground.

So you see the damping of the output wavefrom from this
choke and LED load going into the stainless steel mesh via this one
wire setup.

I had the camera on a tripod, so it would be not so shaky,
but sometimes it was then hard to film the right parts of the table,
when I wanted to film the whole scene.

Will get better next time.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 04:53:16 AM
@amigo

well done.

Try to put a ground cable or a big alufoil
or metal mesh against one pin of the LED
( does not matter which one)
then the LED will be much brighter at the right
resonance frequency.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 05:01:41 AM
@stefan

Thanks !

That's what I first tried, and it made it brighter, but I noticed I do not get any change now that I have the Al foil underneath it...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 05:28:44 AM
I have problems measuring with my grounded scope now the current coming from
the signal generator at a shunt.

Have to isolate the scope from the ground first and then try again.

Stay tuned for this.

@amigo,
when is your LED the brightest ?
With the alufoil below your experimentation board ?

Or with the alufoil just connected to one LED pin ?

Can you try to measure how much current flows from your
driver circuit via the one wire to your ferrite transformer  ?

So the main problem is with these circuits,
how do you design a very low power very fast rising square wave
or pulse generator ?

Would be interesting to see, if shorter positive pulses will
still give the same brightness if you change the duty cycle.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 05:30:33 AM
I have made a video, especially for that paranoid delusional freak who's name I won't mention and his followers, but everyone is welcome to watch it...it's educational !

Video Link Here (http://www.2shared.com/file/2427124/f468cb6d/docstiffler_radiation.html)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 05:36:50 AM
Hihi,
that was a good one with the Geiger counter ! ;) ;D

What frequency are you running it amigo ?
Do you have to tune it for the right frequency, so the LED
lights up this bright ?

Many thanks for this video.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 05:51:43 AM
Hihi,
that was a good one with the Geiger counter ! ;) ;D

What frequency are you running it amigo ?
Do you have to tune it for the right frequency, so the LED
lights up this bright ?

Many thanks for this video.

Regards, Stefan.

:D

I get 11.21MHz on my Fluke 124 scope, but the frequency is all over the place because the signal generator is not filtered of noise. I did have to tune it so the LED lights up most bright, it's pretty fineky at best.

I tried measuring current but am not sure if my equipment is sensitive enough. Fluke scope shows 0.4mV across the 1ohm resistor, as described by doc.stiffler in Fig.09, but I do not know if that's real or not.

Also, I do not have the high voltage effect present on the other end of the coil. Not sure if I wired it in a wrong way (geesh how many ways are there) but the neon bulb does not light. If I touch the end the LED goes out...

I'll keep at it, thanks for the encouragement :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 06:00:09 AM
Just wanted to add, frequency seems to change a bit, depending on which end of the coil I use and also if I reverse the L2 and L3...still no HV on the free end.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 06:28:54 AM
@amigo
what is your voltage peak to peak output at your oscillator circuit
before going into the coils ?

I also wonder how Dr. Stiffler gets so high high voltage outputs
at his ends of the unconnected coil wires..?

He must  have a very high Q of his resonant circuit.
Maybe he really has very good cores and his Q is very high.

P.S: I tried it with a 220 to 15 Volts transformer made from
normal iron and this also works , if you ground
one side of the output LED.
I used the 12 Volts winding as the one wire choke.

Then it also works with lower frequencies at around 1 Mhz.

But the light output with the ferrite choke is still higher
at its resonance frequency.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freenrg4me on October 27, 2007, 06:34:09 AM
"I have made a video, especially for that paranoid delusional freak who's name I won't mention and his followers, but everyone is welcome to watch it...it's educational !"

@ amego

Dearest amego,

Delusional paranoid freak here, I noticed that your frequency generator chip only goes to 10mhz, not 21mhz. I also noticed 4 wires going to the board, not 1 wire. So you have not activated the core and that should be evident by the fact that you admit it.

Maybe if you activate the iron at 21MHZ you could do better than barely lighting 1 LED? Hardly a replication of a circuit that has not been verified by anyone including you.

Also, when Stiffler was logging in as other users and pretending to be someone else, he sort of blew his credibility forever with anyone that has some. How do I know that you are not just one of Stifflers minions or Stiffler himself? If Stiffler is even his real name... That we shall know soon enough, it is under investigation.

Is that one of those home made counters that you make from a phase locked loop? Impressive. Hit the core with 21MHZ like Stifler claims and shows with his scope shot and at a high enough power level and it just might detect something, if it works.

Until then you have not replicated anything and only proved that you have poor reading comprehension skills.

Believe me, I really wish I was wrong, I want to be wrong. But here is a reality check:

Stifler claimed few will show you a working cold electricity circuit.
Stiffler claimed it was over unity.
Stiffler claimed barium core necessary.
Stiffler claimed 90 degree opposed winding key.
Stiffler claimed this and that and every claim Stiffler has made, Stiffler has retracted.

Congratulations, so far that you proved a coil can induct with one wire if the frequency is high enough. Sorry to bust your bubble but that has been known for nearly 100 years.

Nice false attack but you only exposed yourself more.

Nice try.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 06:41:50 AM
user:
Freenrg4me
was now banned.

I let his last posting stand here, so everybody knows why he is banned
now.


@Amigo,
maybe you still can try it again at 21 Mhz,
but I guess you will not see any radioactivity again there...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 06:50:06 AM


I tried measuring current but am not sure if my equipment is sensitive enough. Fluke scope shows 0.4mV across the 1ohm resistor, as described by doc.stiffler in Fig.09, but I do not know if that's real or not.




That would mean 0.4 milliAmps going through the LED
or
from the output of the oscillator circuit into ferrite transformer ?

I guess from your visual output it could be 0.4 milliamps through the LED,
as your LED seems to be not very bright and these modern LEDs
already put out such brightness as these current levels...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 27, 2007, 08:55:04 AM
My God, what is that guy's problem, he seemed intelligent and knowledgeable from posts I read in the past. What a shame that he has these severe paranoid thoughts that the world is after him to get him. :(

Haven't I written that it was my first attempt in replicating, never claimed it was THE replication, just an attempt. My signal generator is built around MAX038 which is up to 20MHz capable chip, where does he get 10, maybe because I said the coil tuned at ~10. And it's a bastardized version of a signal generator, yet it works so it's a proof of concept.

The output of the MAX038 chip is routed through a 50ohm resistor to the 390pf mica cap which is part of the main circuit. I don't have any op amps after the chip to amplify the signal. The output signal is about 800mVp-p according to my Fluke 124 scope and it seems to be pretty noisy. I should really make at least a better output stage with higher p-p.

0.4mV measured was across the 1ohm resistor between the signal generator and 390pf mica cap, so basically before the ferrite core or the choke actually. So I guess it's 0.4mA current if we are to believe Ampere law. :)

I am not sure what mcd rating my white LEDs are, but they are not the brightest you can get nowadays. It's what I had handy...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 27, 2007, 03:37:29 PM
My God, what is that guy's problem, he seemed intelligent and knowledgeable from posts I read in the past. What a shame that he has these severe paranoid thoughts that the world is after him to get him. :(

Haven't I written that it was my first attempt in replicating, never claimed it was THE replication, just an attempt. My signal generator is built around MAX038 which is up to 20MHz capable chip, where does he get 10, maybe because I said the coil tuned at ~10. And it's a bastardized version of a signal generator, yet it works so it's a proof of concept.

The output of the MAX038 chip is routed through a 50ohm resistor to the 390pf mica cap which is part of the main circuit. I don't have any op amps after the chip to amplify the signal. The output signal is about 800mVp-p according to my Fluke 124 scope and it seems to be pretty noisy. I should really make at least a better output stage with higher p-p.

0.4mV measured was across the 1ohm resistor between the signal generator and 390pf mica cap, so basically before the ferrite core or the choke actually. So I guess it's 0.4mA current if we are to believe Ampere law. :)

I am not sure what mcd rating my white LEDs are, but they are not the brightest you can get nowadays. It's what I had handy...

Great Work!

You are to my knowledge the first person to make a public announcement of a great job in close replication of the basic circuit.

If I might, I would like to offer you some points that may help in moving forward;

1) Have you read on my web page the problem with the direction of the coil winds, both must match, one can not be clockwise and the other counterclockwise. Some strange and undesired things happen if this is not correct.

2) Do no connect any external mass to any of the circuit. When you add metallic mass to increase LED brightness you are moving into a totally different theory of operation and will be limited by capacitive coupling to the environment, back into the equipment. Your current circuit is close to the floating light shown at the top of my web page.

3) You most likely are not seeing the HV because you are not at the correct resonance. This is way a good function gen. comes in handy to find the correct frequency. I have found as many as three frequencies where the LEDS were (to the eye) the same brightness. I have shown on my web page one of many methods that could be used to improve on the eyes response. If this is your case then you would find the correct frequency by first finding the beat ones (noting them) and then with the Neon attached move through these spots to find the correct one.

4) The Al plate does not worth the same as mass does in Stefans example. When using a proto-board with the backing Al plate it need not concern you until you wish to use it as a parasitic amplifier, in which case you would drive the circuit by applying your signal to the outer most plate.

You do need the ability to tune the signal source, I have tried IC's and they do not offer the flexibility to trade off the complexity. A good old LC oscillator with a tunable coil works best.

5) The circuit will 'HUNT' the problem is to be sure it is not caused by your oscillator shifting from thermal changes in the components. But when a search coil is used to explore a working coil you will see a wide bandwidth of frequencies.

6) The more LEDS you add in series the higher the voltage will rise in the coil, don't hold back, start adding and retuning, when its right you will well know.

Continued good luck and coming advances.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 27, 2007, 04:00:21 PM
@amigo

Short note, I forgot to thank you for doing the radiation test. Peers have asked for this but my Beta counter would not work here.

Looked at the video, why not put it up on YouTube?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 27, 2007, 06:22:54 PM
Hi Ron and Amigo,
thanks for all the new infos.

I really must get such a core and see myself these extreme
resonances.
Also my function generator goes only with the trick to about 3  Mhz,
so it is not good enough for these things.

I also had an old ferrite core, with some coils handwrapped around it already
from former experiments, but there the output of the LEDs still
was lower...

So I guess we really need special core with the Litz wire
and the exact same setup as Ron has to get these very high Q resonances
and extract the power this way.

It still puzzles me, how Ron can extract this free energy with just a ground
wire.

Where is the excitationcoming in then from?

I have read an article a while ago, which stated, that some
LEDs or diodes have some kind of negative resistance
region inside the current flowing direction and thus
can oscillate in the conduction direction.
It was not a tunneddiode or something like this,
it was a special sort of LEDs when I remember correctly..

So Ron,could you please try this grounded wire
experiment with some other LEDs and also with
some other core ?
Will this also work ?

We have to see exactly how only with a ground wire
we can generate this power without any batteries...

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: terry1094 on October 27, 2007, 09:35:55 PM
@stefan

Thanks !

That's what I first tried, and it made it brighter, but I noticed I do not get any change now that I have the Al foil underneath it...

Hi, Amigo,

Can you tell us how many windings you have on your primary and secondary.

Thanks!

Terry
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 12:44:29 AM
@RStiffler,

Thanks for the support and the guidance, I will go and re-read the entire page again because there were updates in the mean time while I was working on this.

I did make sure that my secondary coil is wound in the same direction as the primary. That was the problem with my first attempt week ago until I read on your page that they have to match directions.

I have switched now to a full breadboard with the metal backing and only placed your circuit on it, while keeping the signal generator on the smaller board. Sadly now my LED barely lights up, though the frequency is about the same ~10.7MHz. If I touch the gnd (-) on my signal generator board the LED lights up brighter but that's not what we are looking for. :)

I feel I'm back to square one now since the LED is barely illuminated (hard to see) and my signal generator does not seem to be working as one would hope. You are right that one needs a good instrument for things like this, but...

Perhaps if you have time, could you please consider posting on your page a simple tunable LC oscillator that everyone can build. That way we will all be on the same "page" when it comes to sources of the signal?

Regarding the video, I did not like the lo-res quality of YouTube thus I made my video at 480x360 so that details are clear. :)

Do you know if litz wire is absolute necessity on the coil or could we wind a similar full copper primary instead though I suppose all this has to do with capacitance, no? Would be great if we did not have to special order coils, since I have found a bunch of cores in a local surplus store, but without the coils on them and would like to wind my own if possible.

@hartiberlin

I must say that the margin of error is very narrow here when it comes to frequency control and it is necessary to strike the right one to get the best results. An oscillator with fine tuning (down to KHz or better) would come very very handy. I'm also interested in the no generator ground only experiment because there was no tuning involved there, it appeared to simply just work on its own. :)

@terry1094

I do not how many windings are on the primary, I just used the existing ferrite core I pulled out of an old alarm clock with radio. The geometry matched so I figured I got nothing to lose by trying it. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 28, 2007, 01:34:12 AM
@RStiffler,

Thanks for the support and the guidance, I will go and re-read the entire page again because there were updates in the mean time while I was working on this.

I did make sure that my secondary coil is wound in the same direction as the primary. That was the problem with my first attempt week ago until I read on your page that they have to match directions.

I have switched now to a full breadboard with the metal backing and only placed your circuit on it, while keeping the signal generator on the smaller board. Sadly now my LED barely lights up, though the frequency is about the same ~10.7MHz. If I touch the gnd (-) on my signal generator board the LED lights up brighter but that's not what we are looking for. :)

I feel I'm back to square one now since the LED is barely illuminated (hard to see) and my signal generator does not seem to be working as one would hope. You are right that one needs a good instrument for things like this, but...

Perhaps if you have time, could you please consider posting on your page a simple tunable LC oscillator that everyone can build. That way we will all be on the same "page" when it comes to sources of the signal?

Regarding the video, I did not like the lo-res quality of YouTube thus I made my video at 480x360 so that details are clear. :)

Do you know if litz wire is absolute necessity on the coil or could we wind a similar full copper primary instead though I suppose all this has to do with capacitance, no? Would be great if we did not have to special order coils, since I have found a bunch of cores in a local surplus store, but without the coils on them and would like to wind my own if possible.

@hartiberlin

I must say that the margin of error is very narrow here when it comes to frequency control and it is necessary to strike the right one to get the best results. An oscillator with fine tuning (down to KHz or better) would come very very handy. I'm also interested in the no generator ground only experiment because there was no tuning involved there, it appeared to simply just work on its own. :)

@terry1094

I do not how many windings are on the primary, I just used the existing ferrite core I pulled out of an old alarm clock with radio. The geometry matched so I figured I got nothing to lose by trying it. :)

@amigo

I have often been called on the carpet because of as some say (Rude, Curt etc.,) but often you just need to cut to the chase. It is a shame everyone does not have a lab full of equipment, it sure does make a difference. I can not really help on the generator as what I was making reference to is an oscillator that is built to match your required frequency for your coil(s),as currently seen at the bottom of my web page. The oscillator is a Colpitts driving a MOSFET. The values of C and L are selected for the desired frequency which must be known. The coil has a ferrite core which allows maybe 1MHz of tuning which is not enough to be used for finding the resonant points.

You will see on my page where I built a cheap and dirty circuit on a bit of cardboard, this shows that when it is working a proto-board is not even needed. I would think something very simple has changed in your porting to the bigger board.

The reason I insist on starting here is that to move on, one must be able to understand the little strange things that can make it work or not. The ground only circuit is a highly tuned set of coils that are matched to each other. I show a similar example in the section of my page where I explain the winding sense problem. Consider I have been working on this for over 7 years, so it is not something I can just write about and you can do it. I have that feel and understanding and you and all that move forward will need to gain the same insight. This is a case of crawling before you walk.

Maybe I need to look back and see just how hard it was to get here, also your coils may not work. I really can not offer much more.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 02:13:43 AM
@RStiffler

Please forgive us, I feel most of us are just anxious to jump right into it instead of taking small baby steps towards the final goal of walking upright. :o

Some people do not have scopes and function generators, others might not even have DMMs. In this case this is quite an impediment and is a show stopper, but we can only do with what we have available to each of us. I believe it's important to keep working and trying, if we give up or never try then the battle is already lost. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 02:42:19 AM
Hi Ron,
is it okay to just use a sinewave with around 10 Mhz or do we need
a square wave at this frequency to excite the cores ?

As you show a sine frequency on your scopeshots, I guess
you used also your singal generator on sine function, right ?

Please try to find out what resonancefrequency works best
and what the ferrite core with the 2 coils around
it has for its own resonance frequency and how high the Q is.

We really have to nail down the parameters to see, how we
best extract the energy.
At least we have here a first circuit that runs
without any power input and puts out already a few hundred
milliwatts of power for free !
So to scale this up we need to find the right parameters.

Many thanks in advance..
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 04:17:50 AM
I do not believe there is one single resonant frequency that we can nail this down to. Every coil is different and so with each one it will require some specific tunning. That's what the last circuit on the experiment page is about, it's a fine tuned oscillator but only for the core doc has with him. Our cores would probably be slightly different, depending on other components as well. But this is just my half-educated guess :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 28, 2007, 04:59:01 AM
@ Stefan:

I have followed this topic for a while now and I have a question.  You guys are all much better versed in electronics than I am.  I have a basic, working knowledge, but that's about it.  This circuit, you said, is putting out electricity as evidenced by the three LEDs illuminated in your video, without power input.  When you adjusted the frequency dial on a piece of your equipment I saw the LEDs get brighter, then dimmer.  Excuse my ignorance but, the piece of equipment you were adjusting was plugged in to the grid, correct?  I assume this was just adjusting the frequency as you said in the video (which I enjoyed by the way as I said in an earlier post) but, is there no "energy" passed from that device to the circuit?  I guess I am thinking of it like a radio tuner/amplifier that adjusts the frequencies of the broadcasts and amplifies.  Of course, there are just receivers that do not amplify but, I am just wondering if any energy is entering the circuit from that device?

Also, you stated the frequency that showed the best result as you tuned several times, would it be possible to design a circuit that resonates at this particular frequency such that, you would not need that piece of equipment?

As I said, please forgive my ignorance as to you guys that know, I probably sound like an idiot.  But, at least I know what I know, and I am not afraid to admit when I don't.  Thanks.

By the way.....good decision on the ban. (my opinion.)

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 28, 2007, 07:51:43 PM
Hi Ron,
is it okay to just use a sinewave with around 10 Mhz or do we need
a square wave at this frequency to excite the cores ?

As you show a sine frequency on your scopeshots, I guess
you used also your singal generator on sine function, right ?

Please try to find out what resonancefrequency works best
and what the ferrite core with the 2 coils around
it has for its own resonance frequency and how high the Q is.

We really have to nail down the parameters to see, how we
best extract the energy.
At least we have here a first circuit that runs
without any power input and puts out already a few hundred
milliwatts of power for free !
So to scale this up we need to find the right parameters.

Many thanks in advance..
Regards, Stefan.

@Stefan

The reason I put these circuits out to the public, was to ask for help in duplication so that the answers can be found. These devices are not off the shelf and are FAR from being able to be manufactured and heal the world. I was under the impression that Overunity had a group that were willing to experiment and build circuits in an effort to reach something productive?

If this is not the case then of course these devices do not need to be discussed here. There is NO hard fast rules or MASTER parts list to build from that gives the Holy Grail device. Experimentation is required in order for others to see if they arrive at the same place that I have. I have disclosed and am continuing to disclose all information I have on my web site.

You can use sine or square wave as the driving signal, sine does not produce the same number (less) resonant points as the square wave. In some coils if you use sine you may never obtain the high voltage as indicated by the neon.

I also disagree that just any old coil will do this. You may get a LED or two to light, but see the top of my web page where I show 40+ LEDS from a single wire coil.

I do not believe there is one single resonant frequency that we can nail this down to. Every coil is different and so with each one it will require some specific tunning. That's what the last circuit on the experiment page is about, it's a fine tuned oscillator but only for the core doc has with him. Our cores would probably be slightly different, depending on other components as well. But this is just my half-educated guess :)

@amigo
You are 100% correct in your understanding.

@ Stefan:

I have followed this topic for a while now and I have a question.  You guys are all much better versed in electronics than I am.  I have a basic, working knowledge, but that's about it.  This circuit, you said, is putting out electricity as evidenced by the three LEDs illuminated in your video, without power input.  When you adjusted the frequency dial on a piece of your equipment I saw the LEDs get brighter, then dimmer.  Excuse my ignorance but, the piece of equipment you were adjusting was plugged in to the grid, correct?  I assume this was just adjusting the frequency as you said in the video (which I enjoyed by the way as I said in an earlier post) but, is there no "energy" passed from that device to the circuit?  I guess I am thinking of it like a radio tuner/amplifier that adjusts the frequencies of the broadcasts and amplifies.  Of course, there are just receivers that do not amplify but, I am just wondering if any energy is entering the circuit from that device?

Also, you stated the frequency that showed the best result as you tuned several times, would it be possible to design a circuit that resonates at this particular frequency such that, you would not need that piece of equipment?

As I said, please forgive my ignorance as to you guys that know, I probably sound like an idiot.  But, at least I know what I know, and I am not afraid to admit when I don't.  Thanks.

By the way.....good decision on the ban. (my opinion.)

Bill

@Pirate88179
What Stefan has is very similar to what is called a Bucking Driver for LEDS where the inductance aids in powering the LEDS when the field collapses from the signal gen. as it moves through a complete cycle. If you look under LED Drivers on the internet and look at the bucking systems it may help in understand. A Red LED for example can put out a dim light if a person stands insulated and touches one end to a large mass. In this case it is being excited by ambient 60hz or 50hz.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 07:54:04 PM
Hi Bill,
I still needed power input from my signal generator,
but as I could only go up to 3 Mhz, this resonant point there
was not yet the best one.
Probably there will be a better one at around 10 to 20 Mhz,
where I would not have needed a ground wire to the metal mesh.

To get this frequency for a specific core, first you have to find
out the core-coil resonant frequency by different measurements
and then you can build for instance a quartz controlled divider
circuit , maybe also with a Phase Locked Loop circuit,
which exactly hits this resonance frequency.

But the best thing would be, if we all could design
bigger coil-core combinations, that could
just be excited with a ground wire only,
as Ron has shown it and which will
then selfoscillate at the right frequency
and produce free energy like Ron did.

But for this case you need a very high quality Q
LC circuit, which will selfoscillate at this frequency
just by the smallest ground currents..
Maybe Ron?s circuit was also excited by the local
radio stations, so the coil-core combination was
just receiving a bit RF power from the radiostation
or a nearby mobile phone transmitter and amplified this then
and did ring at its own resonance frequency...

I hope Ron can find this out and also try it outside his town, where no radio
stations are located.
We really have to see, what the ground wire is inducing into the
circuit, so it will oscillate and light the LEDs up.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 08:02:46 PM
P.S. Before I am continueing with this circuit concept,
I still have to get a better frequency generator and also need
these special litz wire coils and cores.

I really want to replicate the exact setup as Ron has built it
or very simular at least.

This will need a few days.

Coming week I will continue with the tests of the other circuit:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3475.msg55362#msg55362
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 08:12:26 PM
Hi Ron,
another question:
What happens, when you shortout the coil L1
in the Fig: 14 - Circuit #7 Diagram ?

Will the LEDs still light up with just a ground wire and using
no signal generator ?

2. What will happen,
if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
Fig: 26

Will you still get these high voltages, that can light neon bulbs
at the core-coils ?

At around 2 Mhz my Avramenkp plug diode also lighted up
without my ground (metal-mesh) wire, but I never got the high voltages
yet at the coils of my ferrite transformer.

Probably I could have got them only around 10 to 20 Mhz.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 08:16:06 PM
P.S. Before I am continueing with this circuit concept,
I still have to get a better frequency generator and also need
these special litz wire coils and cores.

I really want to replicate the exact setup as Ron has built it
or very simular at least.

This will need a few days.

Here's how I started. I opened my closet and found an old alarm clock with a radio. Upon closer inspection it had a similar core so I pulled it out. All in all it took me 5 mins to find a core. :)

Surely you must have an old alarm clock or an old radio or a garage sale over the weekend or some place with surplus items that sells stuff cheap ($1-$5) where you could pick one up. I know I was way too anxious to get this on the go because it was so impressive that I could not have possibly waited for eBay purchase and delivery. :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 28, 2007, 08:26:53 PM
@RStiffler

You can use sine or square wave as the driving signal, sine does not produce the same number (less) resonant points as the square wave. In some coils if you use sine you may never obtain the high voltage as indicated by the neon.

Duh. Let me smack myself behind my neck since there's no one around to do it for me :)

I kept using Sine waves and wondering why my effects are so diminutive or why I do not see several peak resonant points. I am going to mod my signal generator to output square wave and see what happens next.

Would saw tooth waves work better perhaps, something like slow rise, sharp drop?

What Stefan has is very similar to what is called a Bucking Driver for LEDS where the inductance aids in powering the LEDS when the field collapses from the signal gen. as it moves through a complete cycle. If you look under LED Drivers on the internet and look at the bucking systems it may help in understand. A Red LED for example can put out a dim light if a person stands insulated and touches one end to a large mass. In this case it is being excited by ambient 60hz or 50hz.

When you say Bucking Driver, do you mean those Joule Thief kind of circuits, here's my "Bedinified" version of it:
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 28, 2007, 08:55:56 PM
Hi Ron,
another question:
What happens, when you shortout the coil L1
in the Fig: 14 - Circuit #7 Diagram ?

Will the LEDs still light up with just a ground wire and using
no signal generator ?

2. What will happen,
if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
Fig: 26

Will you still get these high voltages, that can light neon bulbs
at the core-coils ?

At around 2 Mhz my Avramenkp plug diode also lighted up
without my ground (metal-mesh) wire, but I never got the high voltages
yet at the coils of my ferrite transformer.

Probably I could have got them only around 10 to 20 Mhz.

>What happens, when you shortout the coil L1
>in the Fig: 14 - Circuit #7 Diagram ?

One side stops operation.

>Will the LEDs still light up with just a ground wire and using
>no signal generator ?

Which circuit? What Diagram?

>2. What will happen,
>if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
>Fig: 26

The LED is a bit dimmer. The cap is not forming a series resonant tank.

>Will you still get these high voltages, that can light neon bulbs
>at the core-coils ?

If you are at the correct frequency. I explain fully that you can get a LED to light at maybe three freqs. with no HV and only one gives the HV.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 28, 2007, 09:22:03 PM
Hi Ron,
will figure 22
with the picture:
(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7dblwingcir.gif)

still light up all the LEDs,
if you shortout L1
and use your faraday cage around it and
just have a ground wire going to it there at L2 ?

Quote
>2. What will happen,
>if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
>Fig: 26

The LED is a bit dimmer. The cap is not forming a series resonant tank.

So it seems it is just the coil-core resonance
which are doing these effects, not the
external caps together with the coils.

I will build myself a square wave generator up to around 20 Mhz
and see where the resonances are with my ferrite transformer
and a few other ferrite cores I still have laying around.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 28, 2007, 09:44:24 PM
Hi Ron,
will figure 22
with the picture:
(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7dblwingcir.gif)

still light up all the LEDs,
if you shortout L1
and use your faraday cage around it and
just have a ground wire going to it there at L2 ?

Quote
>2. What will happen,
>if you shortout the 400 pF cap in:
>Fig: 26

The LED is a bit dimmer. The cap is not forming a series resonant tank.

So it seems it is just the coil-core resonance
which are doing these effects, not the
external caps together with the coils.

I will build myself a square wave generator up to around 20 Mhz
and see where the resonances are with my ferrite transformer
and a few other ferrite cores I still have laying around.

Regards, Stefan.

In this configuration, shorting L1 will reduce the amount of energy to the LEDS. They will light but very dim.

In this configuration the two Al plates are forming a parasitic amplifier in between the generator and the circuit. They allow for a very low drive from the generator. Removal of any one plate will kill the effect.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 29, 2007, 01:38:23 AM
So the signal generator
was always running in the background ?

Also in this figure 14 case ?


(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7cir01.gif)

What did energize the coil-core  combination then ?

Just some 60 Hz "noise" from the ground wire ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 29, 2007, 01:48:12 AM
So the signal generator
was always running in the background ?

Also in this figure 14 case ?


(http://67.76.235.52/images/ce7cir01.gif)

What did energize the coil-core  combination then ?

Just some 60 Hz "noise" from the ground wire ?

Getting somewhat concerned about what you do not understand, or do not want to. Where in this diagram do you see a parasitic plate or a signal generator.
Please stop trying to change or put works in my mouth because I will not just jump to the end.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 29, 2007, 02:19:19 AM
Thank you Dr. Stiffler and Stefan for your replies.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 29, 2007, 03:00:59 AM
@RStiffler

I'm still having a hard time with lighting anything more than one LED and even one does not shine as bright. I have modified my mock-up function generator to be able to fine tune the frequency, so with that I found another resonant frequency for me at 8.59MHz where the LED lights up but not as bright as at 10.07MHz. Still looking for the third resonant frequency but I'm afraid that without a real function generator I will not be able to get there.

So in the mean time I have built your oscillator from Fig: PL01 at the bottom of the page, figured let's see what kind of a wave it produces and at what frequency. Turns out on my scope it looks like a sawtooth slow rise sharp fall at around 6.96MHz.

What I'm wondering about is how did you make it so that it tunes to your exact resonant frequency, because I might as well use this circuit to tune mine in?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 29, 2007, 03:48:59 AM
@RStiffler,

Interestingly enough I have hooked up my hand held frequency counter to the PL01 circuit, and it shows ~7.179913MHz before the 400pf capacitor, and ~5.178899MHz after it.

So my fluke scope isn't as accurate as I'd hope since it missed by 220KHz, but that's beside the point, what bugs me is how come the frequency is below 10MHz and yet it is a best resonant one for that circuit?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 29, 2007, 04:47:06 AM
@RStiffler

Alright, I'm lost now. :)

I got the PL01 circuit built (just the oscillator) and thought: I'll plug my core in and see what happens, worst case nothing does. Lo and behold the LED lights up pretty bright, so I plug in two more and the brightness diminishes but they are still lit. :o

Why is this happening, if the circuit was tuned to your cores and not mine? Is it because it appears to be auto-tuning into the resonant frequency for the circuit it is connected to?

It does not light the LEDs bright here and I cannot drive more than couple of, or they will not light up at all (tried 10 which was too many). I guess I'm still missing something...

Thanks!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 29, 2007, 10:00:08 AM
Tesla's experiment from Colorado Spring has a problem with good grounding, and he put lot of water soaking to overcome it for make good ground point. If some HF oscillator was work on one side, this signal was going through this line hundred of meters (lot of device has build HF oscillator inside, HF lump for example). When he switch on his HF transformer, every nail was making spark, and in one experiment he burn out lot of standard Edison bulb, without wire, on around 10 m of distance.
If some HF source is near, it will actuate your device. You can see on my web:  http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html) my investigation. I have receive energy in my house, but not when I go out. If some energy from inside of Earth exist (from thundering or something), it will be in less than diodes barrier signal form. Your coil can do Q=2PIf/R amplification, and overcome this diode-barrier problem.
Only with wire I have around 10 V in 5 minutes, and with 1 m2 plates I have 40 V, and good spark. Maybe transformer in my oven generate that energy, and it is only connect with one wire.
I think diodes without barriers (or mechanical rotating switching) will be important to receive that Earth energy.
I just want to help...
You need good grounding (and testing yours, which you use), and it must be only device which use it. Maybe some tree with nail inside, will be enough (just one of idea for nature grounding point). You can do it easy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 29, 2007, 02:20:17 PM
@amigo

You might want to communicated with me direct in order to save bandwidth here and then you can present your findings. I now see a number of things in your circuit that can be causing a problem. I will state a few here.

1) In a coil the things to consider are Inductance (L), Impedance (Z), Inductive Reactance (Xc), and any mutual inductance. In your circuit L1 is wrong. It may very well have an L similar to my specification but the physical structure is all wrong. The Xc must be much higher than what I use. You are so close, finish by doing a good L1.

2) You show three LEDS, what happens when you add a fourth and fifth?

3) Your oscillator PL01. This is of Colpitts design and two things again determine frequency, the coil in the collector and the two caps, from collector to emitter and emitter to ground. If the L is large in order to be the major determinate of frequency then the C's will be rather small and any temperature or parasitic capacity will change the frequency and the oscillator may become unstable.

4) Because the two caps in the oscillator are part of the equation to set the frequency, also the coupling cap and the capacity of the MSOFET are in parallel with these components. You may have to figure if you need to reduce the value of the coupling cap. Use 1/(2*pi*f*C) to get reactance. I would not want much more than Xc=100.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 29, 2007, 02:25:11 PM
@amigo

Forgot to add, the reason the LED brightness falls is the LEDS have changed the resonate point of the coils, you have to retune to the max point again. If in tuning your oscillator the freq. changes rapidly you may not be able to find the exact point. I know this is a fine line, an oscillator that will swing over a wide bandwidth and yet be adjustable in a small bandwidth. So goes experiment. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 29, 2007, 08:09:51 PM
Dear Ron,
so what exactly is exciting the coil-cores,
if you use just a ground wire ?
Can you try to find this out please ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 29, 2007, 10:56:31 PM
New video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn8u8EIJ8Gk
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on October 30, 2007, 12:26:19 AM
Rstiffler said both these quotes on this thread ... Stefan wasn't off base at all for asking that question about the ground noise and single wire conductor

Getting somewhat concerned about what you do not understand, or do not want to. Where in this diagram do you see a parasitic plate or a signal generator.
Please stop trying to change or put works in my mouth because I will not just jump to the end.



4) The Al plate does not worth the same as mass does in Stefans example. When using a proto-board with the backing Al plate it need not concern you until you wish to use it as a parasitic amplifier, in which case you would drive the circuit by applying your signal to the outer most plate.
 ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 30, 2007, 12:46:07 AM
Rstiffler said both these quotes on this thread ... Stefan wasn't off base at all for asking that question about the ground noise and single wire conductor

Getting somewhat concerned about what you do not understand, or do not want to. Where in this diagram do you see a parasitic plate or a signal generator.
Please stop trying to change or put works in my mouth because I will not just jump to the end.



4) The Al plate does not worth the same as mass does in Stefans example. When using a proto-board with the backing Al plate it need not concern you until you wish to use it as a parasitic amplifier, in which case you would drive the circuit by applying your signal to the outer most plate.
 ??? ??? ??? ???
If you want to say something, say it, why extend the thread by some form of insinuation?

If you want to pursue the work great otherwise one could infer you to be another distractor  ????
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on October 30, 2007, 01:17:11 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 30, 2007, 01:43:05 AM
Amazing Video !

What happens if the generator ground is connected
to the Al plate of the Jameco board ?

BTW: The ground impedance of the signal generator
connected to mains ground would be interesting..
The signal of the generator still rides on this impedance
vs. ambient electrical potential.
Every operating switching mode power supply without
power shaping "feeds" the mains ground.
The wave lenght at 10MHz is 30 meters.

If the power is transported via al plate and ambient potential
vs. signal generator ground - I would say that this can?t
be achieved with 60 Hz. Options could be that grounded
devices like switching mode power supplies produce overtone
harmonics on the ground line.
Even the complete ground system of the building could
operate as antenna for the nearby radio stations.
By tapping these antenna on the right point....
10pf @ 60 Hz -> GOhms
10pf @ 10 Megs -> 1k6

Even if the coil has inverse hysteresis and/or the led
has an operating point with negative resistance - how do
you achieve the needed polarization current on the air-al
plate without rf involved or overunity ?


amazing.

rgds,

Wolfgang
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 30, 2007, 01:59:12 AM
@RStiffler

Those were very constructive remarks in your previous post and I will take them seriously. I know my L1 is not correct - I am struggling here with what I have. :)

Right now I do not have access to a good LCR meter (perhaps you could suggest one to me please?) The Mastech DMM I have has LC option but it is pretty crude and does not measure down to uH as I would like to.
I saw some on eBay but not sure if they are any good: for example this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PROFESSIONAL-10KHZ-HANDHELD-DIGITAL-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190167757680QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-NEW-10KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190166121744QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

As far as taking the conversation private, if you do not mind, could we keep it in here? I feel that my limited success so far will encourage others to start experimenting and reporting their findings here. This thread is already a solid repository of knowledge about this subject with many excellent remarks made by you and the others, so anyone else interested can easily refer to it, beside going to your web page.

I'm off to watch your latest video now and then to see if I can make a new better L1...

Thank You.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on October 30, 2007, 02:06:32 AM
Sorry Dr Stiffer , I'm a cryptic writer and I meant no harm.  It just looked like you were trying to keep Stefan on base so he could discover things like you did, but by keeping it basic still, so to understand what was making them happen and why.  But since you had brought up the parasitic capacitor, signal generator thing before Iin the thread  I was assuming that it might be something to play with later in the game but not for now since were still understanding the elements of what is happening. Again no harm intended sorry.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 30, 2007, 02:13:53 AM
@RStiffler

Those were very constructive remarks in your previous post and I will take them seriously. I know my L1 is not correct - I am struggling here with what I have. :)

Right now I do not have access to a good LCR meter (perhaps you could suggest one to me please?) The Mastech DMM I have has LC option but it is pretty crude and does not measure down to uH as I would like to.
I saw some on eBay but not sure if they are any good: for example this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PROFESSIONAL-10KHZ-HANDHELD-DIGITAL-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190167757680QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-NEW-10KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190166121744QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

As far as taking the conversation private, if you do not mind, could we keep it in here? I feel that my limited success so far will encourage others to start experimenting and reporting their findings here. This thread is already a solid repository of knowledge about this subject with many excellent remarks made by you and the others, so anyone else interested can easily refer to it, beside going to your web page.

I'm off to watch your latest video now and then to see if I can make a new better L1...

Thank You.
Well we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.

Build, explore and then understand. If all we do here is want the end first and harp on RF or local transmitters then move on to one of you more productive technologies.

Sorry for the rant.

Meters yes, but anything good costs bucks, so I don't want to be put in that position, that would be a personal decision.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 30, 2007, 02:40:51 AM
Well we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.

Build, explore and then understand. If all we do here is want the end first and harp on RF or local transmitters then move on to one of you more productive technologies.

Sorry for the rant.

Meters yes, but anything good costs bucks, so I don't want to be put in that position, that would be a personal decision.

I understand your frustration, but perhaps you can ignore those voices altogether since there will always be those who do not believe, it's like that in any field not just this one. So, let's not worry about them, but about us and others willing to do something new and different. :)

I showed the last video to my girlfriend who's just standing over my shoulder right now and she believed it. She does not know anything about RF or electronics and does not care, as long as you turn it on and there's light it's good enough for her. And she is the kind of people that we want to make these devices for, normal people, not RF skeptics who will be nitpicking and looking for a hidden wire or a midget in a black box turning the gears. :D

About personal preference in meters, I agree though I'm seeking an advice from someone with more experience using them. I saw you have the Elenco LCR-1810, is that a good LCR meter, have you used it to make your coils with?
Don't worry, I will not buy that or something else and then say "Dr. Stiffler told me to get this one and it doesn't work well". It will still be my decision and my money at the end. :)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on October 30, 2007, 03:13:26 AM
Amazing stuff Dr Stiffler, and well done Amigos.
I have been following this thread with great interest. I 'm a little out of my league here regarding
detailed analysis of high frequency RF style experiments, but I think I grasp the main concepts here and
I definitely find the subject fascinating and motivating. Makes me want to go out and buy some parts right now!

Keep up the great work, and please don't go private with the info you are gaining.

Your work is precious at this moment in time. There will always be detractors in any field of research.
They are often a good "barometer" for determining what not to do! (LOL) Forget them and keep investigating.
What you are achieving is priceless!

Eagerly looking forward to more posts from you both.

Cheers from theToad who Hops

Cheers from the Toad who Hops

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 30, 2007, 06:25:40 AM
Hi Ron,
many thanks for the new video.
Can you please let us know,
what frequency and what amplitude did you drive it with
via the single wire ?
Was it a sine or a square wave ?

Many thanks.

P.S: If you have problems with the slow
Youtube servers you can try:

www.vtunnel.com

This kind of proxy server can stream the youtube videos much faster.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on October 30, 2007, 08:31:59 AM
I believe that RStiffler has capture some energy.
I understand Tesla's system of sending energy through Earth. Every standard HF station has two part (bad from Tesla's point of view):
1.  radiating part (~90%)
2. ground current (~10%)

It is standard radio transmitter system. If voltage on output antenna is high, that 10% can go to all part of Earth.
In Tesla's transmitter he use 90% of ground current and more, and his system don't radiate energy in radio wave form.
Receiver for that 'ground' transmitting is in his patents: 685 953 and 685 955.
You can found it on my web page: http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07.html)

I think that we have lot of energy signal in ground. For receive you need two plates in distance in ground, or one in air, and other in ground, or inductance in air and ground... And system for accumulate that low energy in some time interval for magnification, and useful work.

I know that this device can work, but where is the source? Is it natural, or is human powered Tesla's style transmitter?
Ionosphere-ground system has lot of energy. If you somehow capture that energy, it will be great. But if you capture human powered, you just prove Tesla's energy transmission.

RStiffler, I think that you has done good work! It could be embryo for something new...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 30, 2007, 09:49:47 AM
@RStiffler

Those were very constructive remarks in your previous post and I will take them seriously. I know my L1 is not correct - I am struggling here with what I have. :)

Right now I do not have access to a good LCR meter (perhaps you could suggest one to me please?) The Mastech DMM I have has LC option but it is pretty crude and does not measure down to uH as I would like to.
I saw some on eBay but not sure if they are any good: for example this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-PROFESSIONAL-10KHZ-HANDHELD-DIGITAL-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190167757680QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)) or this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/PROFESSIONAL-NEW-10KHZ-DIGITAL-BENCHTOP-LCR-LCZ-METER_W0QQitemZ190166121744QQihZ009QQcategoryZ100184QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).

As far as taking the conversation private, if you do not mind, could we keep it in here? I feel that my limited success so far will encourage others to start experimenting and reporting their findings here. This thread is already a solid repository of knowledge about this subject with many excellent remarks made by you and the others, so anyone else interested can easily refer to it, beside going to your web page.

I'm off to watch your latest video now and then to see if I can make a new better L1...

Thank You.
Well we may keep it here for a bit yet, although I am getting tired of using my time to play the games going on, like the so called RF issue. Rhetoric is not what I agreed to here by joining the list. If they (and they) know who they are can not get the idea this is my technology and we will proceed under my terms or I will no longer be a part of it, plain and simple.

Build, explore and then understand. If all we do here is want the end first and harp on RF or local transmitters then move on to one of you more productive technologies.

The rf issue ....
I never raised the question that the circuit itself is receiving rf in a classical way.
But its connected (even if only hot wire of the generator connected) to mains ground
via the generator output resistance. (and such connection is essential - so far)
And as long there is no LC filter between generator output and al plate (as "local" ground),
or there is a measurement with (ground lifted) spectrum analyzer and high voltage probe between
main ground and al plate - we dont know it(if rf is involved).
The operating frequency of the circuit is rf - means that all effects related to rf
apply - so its an issue. (maybe your technology/approach is different)
I respect your technology and what you have found by a high degree,
but I still believe in the possibility of scientific discussion -.
If there is no interest in such discussion - no problem.

I?ll analyse my main ground vs. ambient potential in my lab with
a spectrum analyser - because its an interesting topic.
I?ll discuss my findings with myself - so no need for any action -
There will be no AM coils involved, no leds, so your technology
is not touched in any sense.

So please ignore this post - I will open up another thread (if not
possible on this platform than on another platform) for
grounding issues  - and you continue here with your project
and under your terms and conditions.

rgds.
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 30, 2007, 04:16:16 PM
Please do open another thread, I would love to read your findings, You are much more knowlegeable than I and am always eager to learn. Ill provide whatever feedback I can, but dont just discus with yourself, the arguements always seem to be biased that way  ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 30, 2007, 08:25:25 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

I was told about your work today.  I have been remiss on keeping an eye on Overunity.com lately.   Downloaded the base article from your home site and digested it.   Built it up (the simple circuit somewhat modified) and it works as advertised.  I believe this is the same device as shown on YouTube.

As I didn?t have the specified coil/core, I used a Ferrite magnet from a Bedini bicycle wheel motor, wound 300T #32 secondary, 50T primary. I have no idea if this is optimal or not.   1N914's feeding 10uf, LED in series with iron core MA meter across cap.  I left both other ends of primary and secondary floating.  NO measurable DC current in input side of circuit. I don't have an RF Ma meter to check the RF current but from other test, it would appear to be very low.  The circuit is excited via a small coil/470 pf in series from my HP-3312A sig. generator using only + output set to as high PP output possible and from there to the Ferrite coil.  Output around 27 ma @ 6MHz, second and third peak @ 8 and 10Mhz. Output is 30% higher using square waves.  Have tried every method of grounding, base plate, output, input, generator, etc.  All end up with degraded output.  I even put two diodes back to back in series with the input and it still works...a 50ua meter in the input shows no input current.  I realize we are working with RF here but this is something new.  I will say that the most simplified circuit is the 2-1N914's/cap LED circuit connected directly to +++ lead of the generator but only 6-7 ma that way peak and I suspect the base current without the ferrite effect.

This is most interesting work and I want to say thanks for taking the time to show it to us.  I also enjoyed the other research on your site.

Ben K4ZEP


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 30, 2007, 08:57:05 PM
Newbie here. My first post. I have been reading this one project since the beginning. I have tried a variation of Dr's project and and up with something absolutely ultra simple. No other components but LEDs, all sort of colors and sizes and different specs. About 50+. All fully bright.

I use only a bread-board, function generator set to around 9Mhz. Only positive probe connected to circuit. No resistors, no transistors, no coils, nothing. One ground wire to neutral of house-power. Function generator powered by house or battery 12v with 300w inverter so that I could make sure there is no connection of the house ground with the probe.

I will post pics and video if anyone is interested. This was very surprising for me since I was looking to replicate this project and start very small and as I was doing I was simplifying even more to the point that only the function gen and LEDs are enough.

Measure power in = 0 current ma. Power draining to ground around 100ma 4+v. Some of the LEDs are in series and some in parallel. Very interesting indeed.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 30, 2007, 10:08:51 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

I was told about your work today.  I have been remiss on keeping an eye on Overunity.com lately.   Downloaded the base article from your home site and digested it.   Built it up (the simple circuit somewhat modified) and it works as advertised.  I believe this is the same device as shown on YouTube.

As I didn?t have the specified coil/core, I used a Ferrite magnet from a Bedini bicycle wheel motor, wound 300T #32 secondary, 50T primary. I have no idea if this is optimal or not.   1N914's feeding 10uf, LED in series with iron core MA meter across cap.  I left both other ends of primary and secondary floating.  NO measurable DC current in input side of circuit. I don't have an RF Ma meter to check the RF current but from other test, it would appear to be very low.  The circuit is excited via a small coil/470 pf in series from my HP-3312A sig. generator using only + output set to as high PP output possible and from there to the Ferrite coil.  Output around 27 ma @ 6MHz, second and third peak @ 8 and 10Mhz. Output is 30% higher using square waves.  Have tried every method of grounding, base plate, output, input, generator, etc.  All end up with degraded output.  I even put two diodes back to back in series with the input and it still works...a 50ua meter in the input shows no input current.  I realize we are working with RF here but this is something new.  I will say that the most simplified circuit is the 2-1N914's/cap LED circuit connected directly to +++ lead of the generator but only 6-7 ma that way peak and I suspect the base current without the ferrite effect.

This is most interesting work and I want to say thanks for taking the time to show it to us.  I also enjoyed the other research on your site.

Ben K4ZEP




Hi Ben,
welcome back.
Glad to see you over here and confirming the Dr.Stiffler experiments.

I hope you can also post a few pictures or videos of your experiments.

I havenow got myself a few 74AC14 hex Schmitt trigger ICs that can go up to over 20Mhz
in a simple square wave oscillator and also found an old radio I can rip apart.

Stay tuned for more test results from me too.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: FreeEnergy on October 30, 2007, 10:10:20 PM
Newbie here. My first post. I have been reading this one project since the beginning. I have tried a variation of Dr's project and and up with something absolutely ultra simple. No other components but LEDs, all sort of colors and sizes and different specs. About 50+. All fully bright.

I use only a bread-board, function generator set to around 9Mhz. Only positive probe connected to circuit. No resistors, no transistors, no coils, nothing. One ground wire to neutral of house-power. Function generator powered by house or battery 12v with 300w inverter so that I could make sure there is no connection of the house ground with the probe.

I will post pics and video if anyone is interested. This was very surprising for me since I was looking to replicate this project and start very small and as I was doing I was simplifying even more to the point that only the function gen and LEDs are enough.

Measure power in = 0 current ma. Power draining to ground around 100ma 4+v. Some of the LEDs are in series and some in parallel. Very interesting indeed.

Fausto.

hi and welcome.

please post videos and pictures and diagrams if possible. thanks :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 30, 2007, 10:11:31 PM
@Fausto,
yes,please post pictures and videos.

But if you don?t have a coil around a core you don?t have the power amplification,
right ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on October 30, 2007, 10:12:30 PM
Yep. Tesla.  Been there.  Done that.  Snazzy logo on your page Doktm. ;-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on October 30, 2007, 11:42:14 PM
welcome dave!

I see you have considerable experiance in this area. Would you care to give us some guidance? Actually this would not be the thread, but if you would like to start your own it would be appreciated. Some of us have studied tesla for decades and are still learning new things all the time.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 12:28:42 AM
A move coming to YouTube in the next 24 hours. CE Part 9, Reaching the end of the road.

An advance peak for speculation.....

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 31, 2007, 12:56:16 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler:

Wow!  I can't wait to see the video.  That looks impressive.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 01:43:46 AM
Hi Stefan,

Not sure exactly how to use this site, bit rusty.  Here is a photo of my first try at this.  I'm attaching a photo, learning here.  15 LED's, show about 27V @ 3 ma in the circuit.  Note red and black lead at top, that is from sig. gen.  Notice only red lead connected.  No ground anywhere in circuit.  It is pretty well what the Good Doctor specified.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 01:49:28 AM
Hi Ben,
many thanks for the pictures.
Looks great and also the new picture from Ron.

Ben, what, if you just use 2 LEDs instead of the 1N914 diodes ?
Does it also work for you as it did for me ?

What, if you just drive the ferrite "transformer" directly without the
choke and cap before it ?
What frequency works best for you ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 01:51:00 AM
P.S. Ben,
do you also get a small neon bulb glowing as Ron has got around touching his core coils ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 02:04:59 AM
I havenow got myself a few 74AC14 hex Schmitt trigger ICs that can go up to over 20Mhz
in a simple square wave oscillator and also found an old radio I can rip apart.

I have tried that route but to me the frequency isn't stable enough or it is very hard to adjust - was fluctuating all over the place. I tried using trim resistors and caps in a simple circuit and still not good. Do you have some better circuit you are building this on?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 02:08:06 AM
@Ben

Great work. It looks like you have the free ends of the coils plugged into connector strips. You might want to pull them out and let then float. The capacity between then thru the board will kill some of your power. Holding a neon on the secondary while tuning thru the freq. range will show you the HV point.
Normally the more leds you use the better it likes it and allows the voltage to climb across the coil.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 02:08:45 AM
Hi Stefan,

Not sure exactly how to use this site, bit rusty.  Here is a photo of my first try at this.  I'm attaching a photo, learning here.  15 LED's, show about 27V @ 3 ma in the circuit.  Note red and black lead at top, that is from sig. gen.  Notice only red lead connected.  No ground anywhere in circuit.  It is pretty well what the Good Doctor specified.

Ben


Hi Ben,

very nice, but have you tried this without the ground lead from the signal generator being so close to the board and to the main red lead?

In my experiments I have noticed that they can interfere with each other and produce anomalous unwanted effects which are not indicative of the true state of the circuit, or it's intended operation.

Just wondering...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:20:40 AM
Hi Ben,
many thanks for the pictures.
Looks great and also the new picture from Ron.

Ben, what, if you just use 2 LEDs instead of the 1N914 diodes ?


Operation is severely reduced.  You can drive LED's directly as in a AV plug but this circuit works differently than that in the RF front end

Quote
Does it also work for you as it did for me ?

What, if you just drive the ferrite "transformer" directly without the
choke and cap before it ?
 
Without the L/C network driving the Ferrite "Transformer", it works very poorly.  That coil/cap. is very important if you look at what happens to the high impedance input waveform.
Quote
What frequency works best for you ?
It totally depends on the resonance of the circuit, my circuit using the coil/cap that I had in my junk box resonates @ around 5.3 Mhz. I also get considerably more output using a square wave rather than a sine wave but both work. I realize my homemade "ferrite" transformer is an abomination (forgive me Dr. Stiffler) but AM ferrite coils ordered off Ebay have not arrived and will not arrive for a few days so make do with what I have)


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:29:08 AM
Hi Stefan,

Not sure exactly how to use this site, bit rusty.  Here is a photo of my first try at this.  I'm attaching a photo, learning here.  15 LED's, show about 27V @ 3 ma in the circuit.  Note red and black lead at top, that is from sig. gen.  Notice only red lead connected.  No ground anywhere in circuit.  It is pretty well what the Good Doctor specified.

Ben


Hi Ben,

very nice, but have you tried this without the ground lead from the signal generator being so close to the board and to the main red lead?
In my experiments I have noticed that they can interfere with each other and produce anomalous unwanted effects which are not indicative of the true state of the circuit, or it's intended operation.

I just moved it to a woden chair 3 feet from the signal generator and am feeding it with two 2' clip leads in series, (see photo) works the same.  Had to tweek the frequency a few Khz.
There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.

Ben




Just wondering...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:38:34 AM
@Ben

Great work. It looks like you have the free ends of the coils plugged into connector strips. You might want to pull them out and let then float. The capacity between then thru the board will kill some of your power. Holding a neon on the secondary while tuning thru the freq. range will show you the HV point.
Normally the more leds you use the better it likes it and allows the voltage to climb across the coil.

Darn, I almost missed and your post, went back up to get better idea what is going on.  Your suggestion to let the ends float.  Just pulled them out after the last picture I posted, retuned, considerably more output!!!!!  The impedance in that front end is HIGH! You are also correct on the more LED's in series, the more the better! My junk box only had red ones! I look forward to your Video #9!!!!!

Thanks
Ben

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 02:40:33 AM
I just moved it to a woden chair 3 feet from the signal generator and am feeding it with two 2' clip leads in series, (see photo) works the same.  Had to tweek the frequency a few Khz.

Thank you for the test, no doubt in my mind now that I have done something at the time that caused interference to happen.

There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.

Would be funny if some day it proves that we (our bodies, beings) are the key to everything and causing all kinds of things to happen :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:46:44 AM

There is obviously anomalous couplings in this device relative to large mass objects (our bodies, etc) and is to be expected I think.

Would be funny if some day it proves that we (our bodies, beings) are the key to everything and causing all kinds of things to happen :)

[/quote]

Actually it is capacitive coupling between you and me and the front end of the circuit, detunes it as we move around, I'm sure Dr. Stifflier could be much more specific in addressing this problem.....Probably need decoupling chokes in the circuit or shielding......although this is about as simple as you can get.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 02:49:55 AM
Actually it is capacitive coupling between you and me and the front end of the circuit, detunes it as we move around, I'm sure Dr. Stifflier could be much more specific in addressing this problem.....Probably need decoupling chokes in the circuit or shielding......although this is about as simple as you can get.

Ben

I did notice that happening and it was irking me because my crummy make-shift function generator is not good, so every time I'd adjust the resonant frequency the circuit would go out of resonance when I moved my hand away from the board.

Although my comment was related to more aetheric matters :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 02:57:01 AM
Actually it is capacitive coupling between you and me and the front end of the circuit, detunes it as we move around, I'm sure Dr. Stifflier could be much more specific in addressing this problem.....Probably need decoupling chokes in the circuit or shielding......although this is about as simple as you can get.

Ben

I did notice that happening and it was irking me because my crummy make-shift function generator is not good, so every time I'd adjust the resonant frequency the circuit would go out of resonance when I moved my hand away from the board.

Although my comment was related to more aetheric matters :D

Amigo,
do you use any blocking caps on the power supply lines ?

Use a few 100 nF caps and also a 100 uF cap on the power supply
lines at your circuit, so the power supply voltage stays stable.
This will help to avoid the frequency to get detuned.

This is very important with RF circuits.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on October 31, 2007, 03:02:58 AM
Amigo,
do you use any blocking caps on the power supply lines ?

Use a few 100 nF caps and also a 100 uF cap on the power supply
lines at your circuit, so the power supply voltage stays stable.
This will help to avoid the frequency to get detuned.

This is very important with RF circuits.

Regards, Stefan.


Hi Stefan,

Actually, I am knowingly using Gel and standard batteries so these kinds of problems shouldn't occur, no?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 03:18:17 AM


Quote

Hi Stefan,

Actually, I am knowingly using Gel and standard batteries so these kinds of problems shouldn't occur, no?

Thanks.

Surely you need this also with just using batteries !

Even more, cause batteries have higher inner resistances !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler-BATTERY ADDED
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 04:46:34 AM
Hi All,

Speaking of batteries, have replaced my 15 LED's with a 5Ah 12VDC Gel Cell battery.  Starting voltage is 12.44 VDC. In 30 min, voltage has risen to 12.47VDC.  Iron vane meter indicates 3+ milliamps in the 2-1N914/meter/battery circuit. Just to see if the current was real, it is!  Just a peanut whistle but still a start!  Will let it run all night, Its late, going to bed.  What fun......Lots to try tomorrow.  Need to build a real driver!

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 05:01:09 AM
I uploaded a video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-WGgUkOvY. 
I am using a HP 3312a Function generator at 10v PP. One lead connected to the whole circuit and one house ground. The other lead from the Fun.Gen is connected to NOTHING.

Please, if someone will criticize me, please, do a good job because I dont care. It works very nicely thanks to Dr. Stiffler for helping me to get here.

This is a very simplified and interesting thing. I would like to know why it works though if anyone can explain, after replicating only. This is SO SIMPLE that NO ONE  can complain about how to do it!

In this video and pics I did not show input and output measurents but would be willing to show in the next setup, or even better, could someone replicate (since it is so simple) and post it?.

It also works with other function generators such as  PM5131 from Philips at around its maximun 2Mhz. I also did this simple setup without the ground connection using a coil but for simplicity sakes I posted this one with nothing but LEDs and the function generator.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 05:08:54 AM
Picture 2 of 4
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 05:24:20 AM
Picture 3 of 4
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 05:33:21 AM
Picture 4 of 4

(Sorry for some many posts. I dont know Yet how to do everything in one post). I pronnouced Drs Stiffler's name wrongly on the video and my apologies. I totally respect this gentleman for his work and willingness to post his work on the net. I hope we progress in this technology.

For the others that will shoot me for my ignorance, dont waiste your time please. Show me where we are missing the point and the erros on the system. That would be helpfull. Do not ask to change this and that and test this and that. I think that reading 100 posts to get to this point is not helpfull after you critics fill this pages with nothing but criticism. Do it yourself, get some results, some experiences and experimentations and ONLY THAN criticize constructively.

@everyone
I really respect everyones here in this forum concerning real questions and quests for the truth.

I only posted here because I thought what I have shown to be relevant to Dr. Stiffler's work. If i am making grave mistakes about this design, please correct me.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 06:10:34 AM
Thanks for the video and the pictures, plengo.

Maybe your connection cables are already having enough inductance to get the LEDs to resonate at  about 8.5 Mhz
together with the board stray capacitance ?

Please try it with a ferrite choke in series with the signal generator output .

Please test then if you can get a neon bulb to light up,
this will then be a high voltage uptransforming.

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

P.S: You are using 10 Volts peak to peak.
Dr. Stiffler is just using much less inpt voltage and
gets a gain power amplification from his ferrite core-coils...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 06:33:13 AM
Hello hartiberlin ,

I tried, as you asked, with 3 different coils in series with func.gen. (picture shown). All it did is change the frequency that the LEDs light up. Ex:one will be at 900khz, the other at 13MHz and the other at many different points. No brigthness difference. Concerning the neon, no high voltage anywhere. This is as simple as it can get.

Fausto.

ps: you're right. He is showing lots more than just LEDs lighting up, hight voltage and all. My design was just a simple experiment that allows you to use a reasonable amount of power with ONE wire and nothing else and still it is not coming from the FG (at least I think so).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 08:20:45 AM
Hi plengo
and all,
as long, as we don?t get the high voltage from a neon bulb
on another coil end ,so long we will not have any
power amplification.

I just tried a few more different cores and coils  with my function generator
going only up to around 3 Mhz, but all failed
to get me any high voltage on a neon test bulb.

NowI am going to sleep and whenI wake up I will
build up a 74HC14 oscillator which can go up to 20 Mhz with
square waves.
Then I will be able to finally see, if I can get the cores
better to resonate.

As long as I don?t have the right frequencies, there is
really no way to get it done otherwise...

Maybe Ron can still try his circuit on a different core-coil
setup, so we can see, how important this is.
Maybe he is also getting it to run on a standard ferrite
choke or a standard ferrite transformer with the right frequencies ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 08:32:06 AM
Hi Ron,
can you please modify your core with the coils and
try to wind your own primary coil with normal copper wire( not litz wire)
around it and check, if this then also resonates so well
and gives you the same output power and neon test bulb glowings ?

What are the requirements to get the power amplification ?
Must it be this special ferrite core you have or or is it its flat shape
or is it the Q bandwidth quality factor of the litz wire coil ?
So, we really need to find this out now to scale the effect up.

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rickMave on October 31, 2007, 08:36:12 AM
Hi Fausto,  Maybe your function generator ground is actually connected to earth through the chassis and plug of the generator.  If this is the case then you have actually provided the second function generator connection in a roundabout way via your earth lead.  If you measure the resistance between the mains earth pin and the function generator ground with an ohmmeter you may find a direct connection.  Even if there is no DC connection (measured with your meter) there may be a capacitive connection which would do the same job at RF.

I wonder if Dr Stiffler is around to answer a question about his circuit #7 in figures 14, 15, &16?  I notice that there is of order 200mA (RMS) flowing through the earth lead.  This suggests strongly that power is flowing somewhere.  The question I would like to know is - is it flowing into the circuit from the outside, or out of the circuit from the ferrite core etc, or simply resonating back and forth (ie with power factor zero).

A simple measurement that would settle this question would be to simply show as a second trace on the CRO, the voltage on the aluminum pie can (which presumably couples quite well to the circuit via the backing plate etc).  The phase between any voltage appearing on the can and the current passing through the 1 ohm sensing resistor should tell us whether significant power was actually flowing, and in which direction.  It would also be important to know which end of the 1 ohm resistor was connected to the CRO ground for the measurement - as this should be made a common ground for both the voltage and current sense - as we would need to know whether to subtract the current sensing voltage from any voltage appearing on the pie can.  (I am sure you know Dr Stiffler how to keep the CRO grounds as short as possible to avoid inductive pickup - using the little earth rings near the probe tips is best and making sure the common earth point on the resistor is very close to the pie can connection).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 31, 2007, 09:19:09 AM
I will build up a 74HC14 oscillator which can go up to 20 Mhz with
square waves.


Stefan,
The oscillator you are trying to build, will have will not have a 50-50 duty cycle so you will need to put a flip flop after  it and
divide it by 2.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on October 31, 2007, 11:12:47 AM
@ Plengo
   I was looking at your last pic and see the ferrite antenna but no coil wrapped around it. In the circuit, it has a 9 turn coil on the outside of the antenna. This being an open ended drive on the coil with square waves. So this would make your circuit different than the one posted which makes it uncomparable to the original. Just what I am seeing.

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on October 31, 2007, 11:54:24 AM
@HartiBerlin

   Please check this site http://www.sci.fi/~llatva/tekniikka/funcgen/   it is a Low cost 20MHz function generator [using MAX038]

   We need to find out rising and falling time of the square wave generator of Herr Dr. Stiffler.

    Also do you think VCXO http://www.bliley.com/index_065.htm#VCXO can be utilized as signal generator?

   
@Herr Dr. Stiffler

    1. Can you please try your experiment without using any core? I mean just pull BaFe core out and see the affect?

    2. If BaFe is critically important on High Voltage Generation, then Could you please investigate dual or triple BaFe cores?

    3.  When play with duty cycle, at which percentage or ratio do you catch maximum Voltage Output?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 02:14:53 PM
Hi All,

I slept on all I did yesterday and did some serious thinking.  What bothers me the most about the experiments with this device is I am trying to prove to my own satisfaction that there is POWER gain in the circuit and not just voltage gain which is obvious.  The reason I say this is as I linearly increase the input drive voltage, I get a linear output change to the 2-1N914's from the Main coil.  While I get a very defined resonant peak from the input circuit, and coupling to the output, I'm not getting the multiplicative power boost from the core.  Possibly my use of an unknown core material is the fault here.

The basic problem I must address is how to determine the base resonant frequency of the ferrite core where it pumps or multiplies the power presented from the series resonant input circuit.  How to determine this frequency must be determine as no core is created equal give or take.

Dr. Stiffler, can you give us any help on how to determine the frequency of any particular core (assuming you have a pumpable core) to get the power gain and then the obvious resulting resonance frequency of the input circuit in this strange little device?  I feel the need to back up and do some basic research into this so I understand what is going on.

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 02:38:58 PM
I am going to try to answer a number of questions at once and may or may not direct to a single individual.

@k4zep

Because all coils, signal generators, mounting boards, feed line length and the required L1 being off impedance or having to much inner capacity, there is no magical frequency. The frequency depends on the setup and unless they are replicated exact (as would be in a production line) they will all be different. On your replication I think you added the long feed (single line) in response to all the talk about the generator being coupled back, although this is self defeating. This long line forms a radiator (antenna) and not only does excitation escape, but it can couple back into the circuit out of phase and reduce your output, this is why in later circuits I use an onboard osc. and impedance matching driver.

I am quite surprised at what you stated about a battery maybe charging. I gave direct charging up a long time ago as it so upsets the circuit that it was not a viable direction.

The input impedance is Very High! this is why any measurement is difficult at best. Not using a ground return on the generator causes real pain in getting accurate readings of any series resistance in the single input lead. All test equipment must be floating (portable, battery operated, no mains) otherwise be prepared to go in circles.

Video #9 will show the best evidence on how to see potential results, although don't sit back and expect to jump in at the end. It takes feel and a personal understanding of the circuits to move on.

@All

I do not want to offend anyone, but I am not here to perform your experiments. If you want to go off with other coils and not use my circuits, you of course are free to do so. But it is not my research direction to do experiments that are not in my plans and end goal.

I hope you all do not forget about the first videos where the circuit is driving an incandescent light. This circuit is worth looking at as well as LEDS. The incandescent circuit will produce Heat in a load, where the LEDS cool. If you wish to stay with light, stay tuned, yet it takes few parts to also look at the other circuit once you have a working LED system.

Two hypothesis at this time exist on how the LED system is working, one will stay withing the Laws of Thermodynamics and the other (mine) will not, yet when looked at in total does end up not being a violation if looked at from the back forward, more on that later on my web site.

The circuit when properly designed emits a very interesting radiation field, this can be explored by probing the surroundings with a sense coil on an oscope. For those into the EE mathematics you will see at once that this field is not standard in its fall off from the radiator. This work is best left to those wanting to put some addition work into it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MT on October 31, 2007, 03:16:03 PM
Hi guys,

i just stumble upon LTC1799 low cost precision oscillator square wave. Costs 6.40euros at Conrad. Frequency range from 1khz to 30Mhz. One supply voltage ~5volts, one resistor to set frequency. 5pin package.

all the best,
MT
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on October 31, 2007, 04:30:58 PM
@Thaelin
you right. I only put the coils because someone asked. But my design is ONLY to show that one wire IS powering the whole circuit. No high voltage. This is not a replication of Dr. Stiffler. My input current is zero (right at the one probe from the func gen) and the output is about .40ma (less than one milliamp) at the ground cable.


@rickMave ,
Quote
Hi Fausto,  Maybe your function generator ground is actually connected to earth through the chassis and plug of the generator.  If this is the case then you have actually provided the second function generator connection in a roundabout way via your earth lead.  If you measure the resistance between the mains earth pin and the function generator ground with an ohmmeter you may find a direct connection.  Even if there is no DC connection (measured with your meter) there may be a capacitive connection which would do the same job at RF
Hello rickMave. No there is absolutely no connection between the func gen and the ground or anywhere. On the youtube video i am using the house power BUT I also tried with the func gen being fed by a battery via an inverter which makes the whole thing an isolated circuit. Besides if I connect the other probe to the ground cable and and not use the ground the LEDs will not light. The one wire with the high frequency and the ground is the secret. In another variation of this designed I used a coil and no ground connection to achieve the same effect (LEDs lighthing up) and It showed some RF interference in my other equipments.

This circuit is only to show the one wire trasmission of "something" with almost no current being used. In other words, this circuit (which ANYONE can replicate in 10minutes, no excuses) shows one point about Dr Stiffler design.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 04:38:22 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Thank you for your most excellent reply.  I realize you must be inundated with question.  You have given me more direction in reproducing your circuits and I thank you. 

Without a good driver on the board, the battery charging circuit only put about 4 ma into the battery so while it works, it does not seem practical at this time.  I am very interested in the ground driven circuit with no external excitation. 

I look forward to your next video.

Thanks again so very much.

Ben K4ZEP


quote author=RStiffler link=topic=3457.msg56902#msg56902 date=1193837938]
I am going to try to answer a number of questions at once and may or may not direct to a single individual.

@k4zep

Because all coils, signal generators, mounting boards, feed line length and the required L1 being off impedance or having to much inner capacity, there is no magical frequency. The frequency depends on the setup and unless they are replicated exact (as would be in a production line) they will all be different. On your replication I think you added the long feed (single line) in response to all the talk about the generator being coupled back, although this is self defeating. This long line forms a radiator (antenna) and not only does excitation escape, but it can couple back into the circuit out of phase and reduce your output, this is why in later circuits I use an onboard osc. and impedance matching driver.

I am quite surprised at what you stated about a battery maybe charging. I gave direct charging up a long time ago as it so upsets the circuit that it was not a viable direction.

The input impedance is Very High! this is why any measurement is difficult at best. Not using a ground return on the generator causes real pain in getting accurate readings of any series resistance in the single input lead. All test equipment must be floating (portable, battery operated, no mains) otherwise be prepared to go in circles.

Video #9 will show the best evidence on how to see potential results, although don't sit back and expect to jump in at the end. It takes feel and a personal understanding of the circuits to move on.

@All

I do not want to offend anyone, but I am not here to perform your experiments. If you want to go off with other coils and not use my circuits, you of course are free to do so. But it is not my research direction to do experiments that are not in my plans and end goal.

I hope you all do not forget about the first videos where the circuit is driving an incandescent light. This circuit is worth looking at as well as LEDS. The incandescent circuit will produce Heat in a load, where the LEDS cool. If you wish to stay with light, stay tuned, yet it takes few parts to also look at the other circuit once you have a working LED system.

Two hypothesis at this time exist on how the LED system is working, one will stay withing the Laws of Thermodynamics and the other (mine) will not, yet when looked at in total does end up not being a violation if looked at from the back forward, more on that later on my web site.

The circuit when properly designed emits a very interesting radiation field, this can be explored by probing the surroundings with a sense coil on an oscope. For those into the EE mathematics you will see at once that this field is not standard in its fall off from the radiator. This work is best left to those wanting to put some addition work into it.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 05:48:12 PM
Now Ron?s new video is online and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 06:06:08 PM
Now Ron?s new video is online and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE


Ron has a sense of humor......waiting for #10 now......talk about a clifhanger!  How about disconnecting the battery AND the ground? 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 06:12:28 PM
Now Ron?s new video is online and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE


Ron has a sense of humor......waiting for #10 now......talk about a clifhanger!  How about disconnecting the battery AND the ground? 
Of course I'll disconnect the ground. It's only there to T off certain people that are look for shells to hide under. Thought it was time to do some feedback as they have nothing better to do.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 06:15:45 PM
Yes, Ron?s humour makes me very exciting now ! ;) ;D

What about disconnecting the battery and the ground wire and
put all the circuit again in the alu pan and just only watch through the
hole again, if the circuit still runs ?

This would be the definate answer, that there is no
power coming in via the 50KWatts AM radio station not too far away...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 31, 2007, 06:31:02 PM
Yes, Ron?s humour makes me very exciting now ! ;) ;D

What about disconnecting the battery and the ground wire and
put all the circuit again in the alu pan and just only watch through the
hole again, if the circuit still runs ?

This would be the definate answer, that there is no
power coming in via the 50KWatts AM radio station not too far away...

@hartiberlin
Okay you have insulted my ability for the last time on this damn RF issue. I'm off your list.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 31, 2007, 06:54:23 PM
Ron,
I am sorry.
It was not meant to be an insult, but just to check for Murphy?s law
with the wording:

"What can go wrong will go wrong..."

There really could be some kind of induction into your ground cable
via the about 1Meter long ground cable,
especially, when there is a 50 KWatts AM station around your neighbourhood.

Okay, it might not be lamba/2 or Lambda/4
for the right voltage, but you never know.

As you never stated exactly, what you did to
be sure that this was not the case, I just wanted to point this
out.
I believe you that there is a power amplification coming through the
coil-core, but for the hardcore skeptics on this board,
it would be wise to disconect the ground wire and
do again the alu pan faraday cage test then.

So I am sorry again, when I have hurt your feelings,but I
guess this is just a missunderstanding as we don?t know
what measurements you have already done to
know, that it is not a RF induction.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on October 31, 2007, 10:43:33 PM
Now Ron?s new video is on line and he makes
me very exciting to see,if he can disconnect the battery
and the LEDs stay ON.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE


Ron has a sense of humor......waiting for #10 now......talk about a cliffhanger!  How about disconnecting the battery AND the ground? 
Of course I'll disconnect the ground. It's only there to T off certain people that are look for shells to hide under. Thought it was time to do some feedback as they have nothing better to do.

Dr. Stiffler, I hope you don't leave, it is most refreshing having so knowledgeable a person to watch at work..  The reason I mentioned the ground is because of that fascinating circuit in your original group of schematics that had two coils, two sets of LED's and was ground driven, with .5 amp peak in the ground wire!!  Now that got my attention. 

Your latest device with the on-board Colpitts Osc. is most refreshing!  There is so much to experiment with and so much to learn, I'm spinning my wheels as fast as I can.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on October 31, 2007, 11:18:26 PM
Dr. Stiffler has done an experiment with all the device inside a metal container, it was clear that the LED was remaining on ... If Stefan has some doubts it is good that he places them with clearness so that Stiffler can define a new set of experiments. However, if the phenomenon described by Stiffler is reproduceable, it will not delay to come outside other. Stiffler has the advantage to have done experiments for many years and therefore he obtains better results.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 01, 2007, 12:18:50 AM
Nice flurry of activity in just one day, I'm glad doc stuck around when I asked him to, but I'm worried with the last developments he won't be coming back :(

@Stefan

For GOD'S SAKE what are you doing man? As a moderator and an admin even, you should be the first one to set an example not to do what you are doing.

When someone starts a thread on any subject, posts in that thread usually stay on that subject and if they don't MODS make sure they do. Granted, some digressions are permitted but in this case you do not go banging on all doors insulting the person making the claim by questioning their intelligence, especially in a situation like this where the goal and purpose of all of us being here is to find alternative sources of energy. We are all on the same side here, if that's not possible then we might as well disband and go our own merry ways.

If an OP starts a thread and makes a claim (or an original inventor is brought into the thread), then discloses a principle and practical replication guide, he's asking everyone to try to replicate his claim and report back on the success (or failure). Instead there were half a dozen other attempts in butchering the original claim (one by yourself included) which swayed from the original claim ultimately leading to a disaster as evident from the last post by Dr.Stiffler.
 
To make matters worse, latest posts have nothing in common with the original claim and do not belong in this thread whatsoever. Yes it's cute to see dozens of LEDs light up on a pulsed DC or work in any other way, but that's not the principle of the claim. You as a mod/admin should step in and do your "job" - moderate - tell the posters to stay on topic or kindly start their own threads.

All that has been accomplished here was bomb the thread after 26 pages and make the inventor leave it, insulted.

@all

I'm sorry to preach about this, but it seems to me many of you do not know or understand what "Netiquette" is or how to act accordingly. Have you all just learnt about the Internet recently or what?

I will repeat for absent Dr.Stiffler: The main claim circuit principle (to best of my understanding) is based on a decoupling link of C1 and L1 in the primary - they are mandatory. You do not remove them and plug ground or signal generator without those components. That's not the basic claim and you are doing a dis-service in your feeble attempts of replication without them.

Once you stand upright then you can walk, so once you achieve the basic circuit operation as outlined in the primary claim, then you can move on to removing parts and experimenting and posting your findings here. Just because Dr.Stiffler has removed them in his other circuits does not mean that everyone should jump in and butcher the circuit out. He had said that he expects everyone to first replicate the basic circuit and report on their findings and positive outcome.

Otherwise start a new thread and call it "Dr.Stiffler's circuit - modification experiment"...

My 2c.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rickMave on November 01, 2007, 02:35:23 AM
Dr. Stiffler has done an experiment with all the device inside a metal container, it was clear that the LED was remaining on ...
Is this true?  The video I saw with the circuit in a metal container was not all inside - it had a lead coming out of it and going to earth.  None of his circuits seem to be able to work without some similar sort of "earth" or aerial.  We know from Dr Stifflers measurement on circuit #7 in figure 15 and 16 that there may be ~200mA RF flowing in that earth lead.  That would be enough to light ~20 LEDs in parallel (10 pointing one way and 10 the other) if there was enough voltage also on the lead.  So maybe the circuit #7 would light an additional 20 LEDs wired in this earth lead!  Unfortunately Dr Stiffler did not see fit to look for a voltage there.

If only he could provide this measurement (as I requested earlier) then we could know what power flow this current represents.  But maybe that is part of the tease to get others experimenting.

Maybe even he himself doesn't want the answer to that question - it might be very discouraging to find that all the power was flowing in from outside.  But I think that such a strange effect would be just as interesting to investigate and probably just as useful from a power generation point of view. Who cares where the power is coming from as long as it is easy and free!

Such an easy measurement, and so useful an answer.  How sad that he is gone now.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 03:52:11 AM
Dr. Stiffler has done an experiment with all the device inside a metal container, it was clear that the LED was remaining on ...
Is this true?  The video I saw with the circuit in a metal container was not all inside - it had a lead coming out of it and going to earth.  None of his circuits seem to be able to work without some similar sort of "earth" or aerial.  We know from Dr Stifflers measurement on circuit #7 in figure 15 and 16 that there may be ~200mA RF flowing in that earth lead.  That would be enough to light ~20 LEDs in parallel (10 pointing one way and 10 the other) if there was enough voltage also on the lead.  So maybe the circuit #7 would light an additional 20 LEDs wired in this earth lead!  Unfortunately Dr Stiffler did not see fit to look for a voltage there.

If only he could provide this measurement (as I requested earlier) then we could know what power flow this current represents.  But maybe that is part of the tease to get others experimenting.

Maybe even he himself doesn't want the answer to that question - it might be very discouraging to find that all the power was flowing in from outside.  But I think that such a strange effect would be just as interesting to investigate and probably just as useful from a power generation point of view. Who cares where the power is coming from as long as it is easy and free!

Such an easy measurement, and so useful an answer.  How sad that he is gone now.

I sure hope he keeps on with this at least on his home site and YouTube anyway.  I have this weird suspicion that the whole device in Circuit 7, Fig. 15, 16 is acting as sort of a top loaded antenna reference to ground and somehow, the LEDs and coils are a form of Osc. if you read all he has to say about that circuit!, Just look at the scope shot, the damn thing is burst oscillating.  I also suspect if you added a 3rd coil set same as L1/L2 at the top of the schematic and fed it in reverse with a simple long wire broadband antenna, output would be shall we say LARGE? I have also seen the circuit before on a crazy Texans site who said he generated Kw's of energy from an outside antenna referenced to ground!  He didn't have a clue as to how it worked, just said it did.......at the time I thought he was nuts.  I also read an article several years ago about an "energy sucking antenna", I think this circuit and its brothers are basically this!  More "Power" to this type of circuit........What a Pun!

Remember what Ex President Clinton said Ron when he was heckled..................."If you will shut up and listen, I'll talk" or something like that!

Later,

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 01, 2007, 06:47:33 AM

Dr Stiffler,
This list does not belong to one person. On the whole, I would say people on this thread are fascinated by your circuit and are all intelligent enthusiasts and naturally have questions.  I know you have a lot more tricks up your sleeve with this so, where would you direct your fans?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 07:13:54 AM
@all

A certain Russian scientist called Stanislav Avramenko in 1993 has performed an energy transmission experiment without return to mass, that is with an only cable, with very low losses and very high energy density respect the conductor's area.
The experiment is very simple, from a side is a generator with perticolar characteristics which finishes with an only thread, this, much thin and completely isolated by earth, there it takes the current (if we can so call her) towards the utilzer. A rectifier system by fast diodes and a condenser complete everything. Some time ago the experiment was much advertised, French Jean Louis Naudin has been repeated and documented by a researcher (JLN).

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm

Since the beginning of the Stiffler experiment I have thought to a similitude between this experiment with Avramenko experiment. This similitude can help us to reflect on the characteristics of the experiment and the better one road to reproduce and optimize it. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 07:37:03 AM
@ All

I add also the USA Stanislav Avramenko patent. Must however pay attention to the thin explored fact that she has never been at the end the Avramenko experiment. For instance few researchers have worried of the fact that the thread of transmission of the current can be extremely thin, it calls of one little passage of electrons.
This would confirm the experiment with an oscillator and the 9V battery. I would like to know whether other have done the experiment with the oscillator and 9 V battery and they have observed a greater duration of the battery.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 01, 2007, 08:57:55 AM
@all

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm

Since the beginning of the Stiffler experiment I have thought to a similitude between this experiment with Avramenko experiment. This similitude can help us to reflect on the characteristics of the experiment and the better one road to reproduce and optimize it. 


  So Do You Think Dr. Stiffler actually replicated a Russian Scientist work?

  Dr. Stiffler, you are a good man World will know you as a good man, life is short and you have very good respect and honor within this international community. You have very creative soul and please try to be more open...,

All

   Please check http://www.cip.physik.uni-muenchen.de/~wwieser/elec/oscillator/LTC1799/ adress for a very compact low cost oscillator based on LTC1799. this design is a small footprint 50% duty cycle square wave oscillator with variable frequency from 10kHz to 30MHz

   Best Regards from Turkey
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 12:07:06 PM
I want to remind you that Stiffler calls his experiment (http://www.drstiffler.com/): "Single Wire Excitation and Amplification", Avramenko entitles his patent as: "Method and apparatus for single line electrical trasmission". The difference of the two names is born of the fact that Avramenko concentrates his research in a system of current transmission with only one wire, Stiffler, tries the transmission of the current and also to obtain his amplification.

There are very much difference between the Stiffler experiment and Avramenko experiment, for instance:

1. The frequency of the oscillator in the Stiffler experiment is 1000 times more high.
2. The form of the envelopments that Stiffler uses for L2-L3 is completely different. The Stiffler envelopments have an only connected terminal, the other is left free!
3. How for the wires which transports the current in the Avramenko experiment, the L2 thickness is extremely thin and is theoretically not sufficient for the current necessary to power 50 LEDs (50 * 20 mA = 1 A).

@plengo
Is it possible repeat your experiment using a much thinner wire which connects the generator of signals with the device and verify his heating for Joule effect? Actually the adopted disposition in your experiment is the most like that of Avramenko, however it lacks the transformer.

@k4zep
Like the experiment of Stiffler, but with a few not clear differences, can you do us an electric scheme?

@amigo
Your experiment is the several equal to the one realized by Stiffler with the oscillator, have fact of the progress?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on November 01, 2007, 12:12:47 PM
...
3. How for the wires which transports the current in the Avramenko experiment, the L2 thickness is extremely thin and is theoretically not sufficient for the current necessary to power 50 LEDs (50 * 20 mA = 1 A).

What?!
The LEDs are series connected, aren't they?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on November 01, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
as long as a power supply or external powered signal generator is connected, i beleave nothing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: emitremmah on November 01, 2007, 02:09:02 PM
I am but a simpleton. I am still at a loss when I see one lead of a LED connected and it lights. I have laways been instructed that a circuit must come from somewhere and go somewhere. It doesn't. It is being lit by back EMF caused by the signal generator/oscilator because it seems to me that if you have a sine wave that the top is positive and the bottom negative then you are actually reversing the flow of electrons when you cross the base line. so what you are doing is then just exciting the electrons and that is enough?

Lost in the space between my ears.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 02:10:56 PM
Ops... :o
3. How for the wires which transports the current in the Avramenko experiment, the L2 thickness is extremely thin and is theoretically not sufficient for the current necessary to power 50 LEDs (50 * 20 mA = 1 A).
Is true... Clear this point...
But a little problem, why the LED or coil not burn ?
@Stiffler
Some time are the LED or Coil burned ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 01, 2007, 02:17:50 PM
@All

   I am trying to understand and analyse the principle behind Dr. Stiffler's circuit in depth;

   Please think about the correlation between them,

   http://www.nuenergy.org/experiments/modern_radiant_energy_circuit.htm
   http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Radiant_Energy_Antenna_System
   http://www.byronnewenergy.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ambient_Energy_Collection_Device
   http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Ambient_Energy_Collection_Device

   Dr. Stiffler has a lot of know how on this, und as I can understand he wants to go step by step and speak same language in the end. So it is very important to understand and analyze his previous videos and circuits.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 02:35:22 PM
Hi All,

Well the troops are stirred up for sure.  Lets clear up a few things.  First, go to his site and read the whole article on his series of experiments and a lot of things will be pretty clear.  I believe Dr. Stiffler has a few theories that he is developing to explain how these devices work......time will tell.

The LED's are in series.  Current in my device is more in the 3-4 Ma. area.  I will know more when I get the correct coils.  Using his coil, I don't know what current he can force out of the packets of energy pumped through the 1N914's or equivalent.  Total voltage drop across the string times the current is the power developed in the string. 

This is probably the best series of experiments using extremely high impedance and  possibly longitudinal waves in the RF region that I have ever seen!  Its all about matching impedances and something strange in the Barium Ferrite coil/coil configuration.  Theoretically, it gets complicated fast, way above me!

I want to thank the gentleman in Turkey for the heads up info on the LTC1799.  Sure wished they made it in standard configuration.  Does anyone make a small board/Osc. using this device out there as this should be a perfect driver for this device?  A resistor, a chip and a switch, how much more simple can it get and VERY low power too!!!!!  As is, you are going to need a magnifying glass to build this thing, my old eyes and shaky hands might be able to do it!  This should drive directly off a rectified output of a Stiffler device and with good decoupling, feed back and hence self run?  Hope so, sure would be fun to see it in my lifetime.

Anyway, lots of work to do.  BS is cheep, building and making it work is where the rubber meets the road.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 02:52:21 PM
Hi All,

Just one more thing.  WHAT IF IT IS POWERED BY RF or whatever portion of the bands of energy that are all around us and it is tuned to(Sea of energy!)?

 If It can "suck" or produce X amounts of energy out of the background RF/AF/LF noise around me, who cares..........................It has to suck something from somewhere and/or produce it via excitation of the core in the coil.  I'm more of a results type person.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on November 01, 2007, 03:19:51 PM
if it sucks energy from RF the MIBs come to your house an switch of the magic lights very soon. They can measure it without coming in your house (when above hundreds of Watts or so - living such nearby makes people sick). Less RF-power decelerates signal strength of the station resulting in poorer radio quality. But maybe it is not RF!? Stiffler always states that. So then what is it? I cannot see what prevents it consuming power somehow from the supply or signalgenerator-supply!!! I think its possible, that a stimulated core can produce energy. In this case: Until it is not running completely disconnected by its own, i beleave nothing - but hope the best.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 01, 2007, 03:30:03 PM
But maybe is not RF!? Stiffler always states that.

    1. We all might know the Stanley Meyer, Bob Boyce and Newman circuits, Meyer and Boyce directed HV kicks to electrolyzer cell, they have utilized thoze anomalous kicks as highly efficient electrolysis,

    2. Where as Newman and Bedini used those kicks as magnetic explosions to utilize as mechanical movements.

      3. I beleive Dr. Stiffler is now utilizing HV peaks or kicks as BACK EMF to the primary side back. I call it hydraulic bauncing effect during electromagnetic explosion and implosion processes. I beleive this is the SECRET of Herr Dr. Stiffler.

      This effect can be further increased via playing with the core design. That's why I have asked Dr Stiffler to remove BaFe core just once. But he did not, inner and outer coupling of the core may be enormously important.

      So if BaFe has the coupling affect, then we need to put spare BaFe cores around ? Am I correct Dr. Stiffler?

     Best Regards from Turkey!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on November 01, 2007, 03:48:44 PM
if it sucks energy from RF the MIBs come to your house an switch of the magic lights very soon. They can measure it without coming in your house (when above hundreds of Watts or so - living such nearby makes people sick). Less RF-power decelerates signal strength of the station resulting in poorer radio quality. But maybe it is not RF!? Stiffler always states that. So then what is it? I cannot see what prevents it consuming power somehow from the supply or signalgenerator-supply!!! I think its possible, that a stimulated core can produce energy. In this case: Until it is not running completely disconnected by its own, i beleave nothing - but hope the best.

Believe nothing if you like but it?s more then nothing there. It?s something and it is surely exciting.
I felt posting the above in exchange because I was also among the firsts questioning about the RF issue. (hmm, detractors?)

However, until now despite the almost unbelievable visual impact, one has to remember that the overall power is maybe at 0.8-1W. This is a fact, which is clearly achievable using one wire, conventional electric theory. Nonetheless, the work is still in progress. So any verdict would be just a bad guess. And probably like many others here, I am quietly watching the advancement, and also still waiting to see some solid proof about longitudinal waves (which imho do not exist) and of course about OU/FE. This would be science. Good science. And I?ll take my hat off in front of you Dr. Stiffler if you can keep the good road on. But it seems we are now in a dead end and I don?t entirely understand Dr. Stiffler at this point. Almost everything is on the table to show at least an estimate of power balance: dc in, light out (and some loses, of course) and to go solid. But subjects are taken personally and questions are taken as insults. Why?

Anyway: user hartiberlin, you have disturbed this thread. Please ban yourself for at least a weak! Lol
(This is just to make a point about banning. By the way, how is Humbugger?)

Last, but not least: Ben, I remember you are an excellent experimentalist. Glad you are here! Hope the old story about Mike/Bedini is over and some serious subjects may now be brought around the table.

Tinu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 01, 2007, 04:05:18 PM
@abassign
I will repeat it with a very thin wire as you requested and you're right I think my experiment is very indeed like Avramenko. I also tried Dr Stiffler experiment and it worked somehow. I could light a few leds and I also got the high voltage with the neon light, BUT, my setup works better so far (still testing different things).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on November 01, 2007, 04:44:09 PM

one has to remember that the overall power is maybe at 0.8-1W. This is a fact, which is clearly achievable using one wire, conventional electric theory.

     Congrats, you have a crystal (light emitting) diode radio for a shortwave station in Mexico.
     Run it in a Faraday cage with no external wires and report back to me. ;-)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 05:06:38 PM
@All

Let me post some worst case figures for you to look over. My single coil, driven by a Colpitts Oscillator drawing 5mA into an impedance converter drawing 20mA from 12 volts.

12 x 2.5E-2 = 0.300 or 300 mW input.

Driving 75 LEDS in series with a forward drop each of 3.2 -3.8 volts with 4mA in the series chain. Lets use the low forward drop;

75 x 3.2 = 240 volts therefore 240 x 4E-3 = 0.960 or 960 mW

Do you all understand? and this is worst case.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 01, 2007, 05:19:32 PM
@plengo  (Fausto... is more simpatic)

Thanks for doing the test with the thin wire, but how much was thin ?
I have verified your scheme, you really have a set of LEDs fed in parallel, so the current should not be little. When you use a thin wire, can you measure the current with the oscilloscope ?
Is it possible do you tries with longer wire, at least 2/3 mt. and you do again the test.

Best regards,
Adriano
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 05:29:25 PM
@samedsoft

Friend! I enjoy the acronym. How is the family doing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 01, 2007, 05:34:11 PM
Ron
With 28 posts you have made it to Elite member. I think Stefan is sorry!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 05:46:21 PM
Ron
With 28 posts you have made it to Elite member. I think Stefan is sorry!

That's not the reason, I was going to start a closed thread until I found that some decent people do exist on this list.

Stefan and I go back many years and this is not the first time we have butted heads, Right Stefan?

But lets not go there.......

Has anyone seen the postings on Vortex where I am now referred to as a Con-Artist?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 01, 2007, 05:59:05 PM

Has anyone seen the postings on Vortex where I am now referred to as a Con-Artist?


I think people are saying they are suspicious because you get ticked off when people mention that this or that mundane explanation may account for the power.

Maybe you just have a short fuse when criticized, but you can't blame them. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I hope you will keep right on going with this. I'm looking forward to what the solar panel will produce.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 06:21:19 PM

Has anyone seen the postings on Vortex where I am now referred to as a Con-Artist?


I think people are saying they are suspicious because you get ticked off when people mention that this or that mundane explanation may account for the power.

Maybe you just have a short fuse when criticized, but you can't blame them. After all, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

I hope you will keep right on going with this. I'm looking forward to what the solar panel will produce.

Suspicion and Con-Artist are to very different points of view!!

I do not apologize to anyone for my attitude as I have paid my dues and spent most of my life trying to absorb knowledge. If I get frustrated by those that might want to avoid the work and be handed something without effort on their part then indeed I do get livid.

This list and the people that have and are working on replications may very well be the people that make a difference for billions of people, which I can not do without their help. I am most adamant about a step at a time and not wasting time going into some radio transmitter myth.

Those that wish to, lets move forward, be a part of History, don't sit back and wait for #10, it can not come without support by the simple replications and removal of the basic objections. Scientists do not want to touch this. It should only takes days, not months or years once you commit and do.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 06:29:06 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

DAMN good to see you did quit us.  I agree with your measurements and thank you for the "worst case" numbers. I understand perfectly. My lousy board appears to be running at about a worse case as it can but the current and voltages I see across the LEDs agree with your numbers perfectly.  I'm sort of busy today with family matters so experimenting time is short.  More of that tonight.

  It would appear that with the basic ON BOARD RF Osc. driver, you have the ability to generate 3X as much energy through/into the LEDs as the Osc. uses.  Your numbers are absolutely worst case! A really good question that you have addressed before and is very difficult to measure, is:  How much of that 300 mw do you actual use in the conversion process?  From what I can tell, it is almost nil!  I also assume the impedance converter you are talking about is a step up RF transformer to get as high a p/p RF to the BF xformer.  In you basic L/C input circuit, this seems to do that also at resonance.  Keep up the great work! 

Now how much current @ 12VDC does that darn solar panel put out when illuminated via thos LEDs?  There is so much loss here.   I know patience is a virtue! 

Ben 


@All

Let me post some worst case figures for you to look over. My single coil, driven by a Colpitts Oscillator drawing 5mA into an impedance converter drawing 20mA from 12 volts.

12 x 2.5E-2 = 0.300 or 300 mW input.

Driving 75 LEDS in series with a forward drop each of 3.2 -3.8 volts with 4mA in the series chain. Lets use the low forward drop;

75 x 3.2 = 240 volts therefore 240 x 4E-3 = 0.960 or 960 mW

Do you all understand? and this is worst case.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 06:41:14 PM
Hi Tinu,

Glad to see you around again too and as I recall you aren't no slouch at expirementation either.  Lets help make this thing work.  Replications is the best form of flattery for any inventor and puts a lot of BS to rest.  Got lots of part on order to try and make this thing fly now that I have a slight feel for what is going on!  Remember Dr. Stiffler has been working on this for Many years!!!  It all takes time.............................Bedini is another story at another time....life goes on.

Ben

if it sucks energy from RF the MIBs come to your house an switch of the magic lights very soon. They can measure it without coming in your house (when above hundreds of Watts or so - living such nearby makes people sick). Less RF-power decelerates signal strength of the station resulting in poorer radio quality. But maybe it is not RF!? Stiffler always states that. So then what is it? I cannot see what prevents it consuming power somehow from the supply or signalgenerator-supply!!! I think its possible, that a stimulated core can produce energy. In this case: Until it is not running completely disconnected by its own, i beleave nothing - but hope the best.

Believe nothing if you like but it?s more then nothing there. It?s something and it is surely exciting.
I felt posting the above in exchange because I was also among the firsts questioning about the RF issue. (hmm, detractors?)

However, until now despite the almost unbelievable visual impact, one has to remember that the overall power is maybe at 0.8-1W. This is a fact, which is clearly achievable using one wire, conventional electric theory. Nonetheless, the work is still in progress. So any verdict would be just a bad guess. And probably like many others here, I am quietly watching the advancement, and also still waiting to see some solid proof about longitudinal waves (which imho do not exist) and of course about OU/FE. This would be science. Good science. And I?ll take my hat off in front of you Dr. Stiffler if you can keep the good road on. But it seems we are now in a dead end and I don?t entirely understand Dr. Stiffler at this point. Almost everything is on the table to show at least an estimate of power balance: dc in, light out (and some loses, of course) and to go solid. But subjects are taken personally and questions are taken as insults. Why?

Anyway: user hartiberlin, you have disturbed this thread. Please ban yourself for at least a weak! Lol
(This is just to make a point about banning. By the way, how is Humbugger?)

Last, but not least: Ben, I remember you are an excellent experimentalist. Glad you are here! Hope the old story about Mike/Bedini is over and some serious subjects may now be brought around the table.

Tinu

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 07:09:59 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

DAMN good to see you did quit us.  I agree with your measurements and thank you for the "worst case" numbers. I understand perfectly. My lousy board appears to be running at about a worse case as it can but the current and voltages I see across the LEDs agree with your numbers perfectly.  I'm sort of busy today with family matters so experimenting time is short.  More of that tonight.

  It would appear that with the basic ON BOARD RF Osc. driver, you have the ability to generate 3X as much energy through/into the LEDs as the Osc. uses.  Your numbers are absolutely worst case! A really good question that you have addressed before and is very difficult to measure, is:  How much of that 300 mw do you actual use in the conversion process?  From what I can tell, it is almost nil!  I also assume the impedance converter you are talking about is a step up RF transformer to get as high a p/p RF to the BF xformer.  In you basic L/C input circuit, this seems to do that also at resonance.  Keep up the great work! 

Now how much current @ 12VDC does that darn solar panel put out when illuminated via thos LEDs?  There is so much loss here.   I know patience is a virtue! 

Ben 


@All

Let me post some worst case figures for you to look over. My single coil, driven by a Colpitts Oscillator drawing 5mA into an impedance converter drawing 20mA from 12 volts.

12 x 2.5E-2 = 0.300 or 300 mW input.

Driving 75 LEDS in series with a forward drop each of 3.2 -3.8 volts with 4mA in the series chain. Lets use the low forward drop;

75 x 3.2 = 240 volts therefore 240 x 4E-3 = 0.960 or 960 mW

Do you all understand? and this is worst case.
@k4zep

You are correct that it is very difficult to measure input, that is a sticking point with the so called geniuses. Let me address something in this same sentence  so it will not stand out and get all worked up. I have many times seen the energy flowing back into the impedance driver from the coil. More energy than going in, but wasted as it is dumped. So do not be at all surprised if you see this condition, your not nuts.

No, what I mean by impedance driver is the MOSFET that drives the coil that is in turn driven by the oscillator. The load on the oscillator if you tried to direct couple it is to great and it will not stay in oscillation and/or tune properly. The MOSFET forms the buffer between the oscillator and the coil and also better matched the coil input.

The solar cell, well I have been trying to keep my web site in sync and it is close, but still catching up. That first solar cell is a JOKE and I told the manufacture as much. In full sun the TOY could only generate 30mA. I do have the start of the info on my site at the bottom of the page. In short, to make it work you will need the best cell you can get, I will give examples and you will need to play with some small mirrors to use all the light, but that is later right?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on November 01, 2007, 07:55:49 PM
I do not apologize to anyone for my attitude as I have paid my dues and spent most of my life trying to absorb knowledge. If I get frustrated by those that might want to avoid the work and be handed something without effort on their part then indeed I do get livid.

This list and the people that have and are working on replications may very well be the people that make a difference for billions of people, which I can not do without their help. I am most adamant about a step at a time and not wasting time going into some radio transmitter myth.

Those that wish to, lets move forward, be a part of History, don't sit back and wait for #10, it can not come without support by the simple replications and removal of the basic objections. Scientists do not want to touch this. It should only takes days, not months or years once you commit and do.

Thank you, you are generous to post your research so openly, and I agree with you on the difference it will make.  Do you place all of your research in the public domain, and relinquish any claim on the apparatus and its variations?  You say "simple replications" and you are even careful not to frame the 'validators' as 'contributors', but what about those who stumble upon more complex improvements.  Is not your work an improvement on anothers?  Isn't your device an accident?  Can you explain the principle of its operation?



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 08:24:13 PM
I do not apologize to anyone for my attitude as I have paid my dues and spent most of my life trying to absorb knowledge. If I get frustrated by those that might want to avoid the work and be handed something without effort on their part then indeed I do get livid.

This list and the people that have and are working on replications may very well be the people that make a difference for billions of people, which I can not do without their help. I am most adamant about a step at a time and not wasting time going into some radio transmitter myth.

Those that wish to, lets move forward, be a part of History, don't sit back and wait for #10, it can not come without support by the simple replications and removal of the basic objections. Scientists do not want to touch this. It should only takes days, not months or years once you commit and do.

Thank you, you are generous to post your research so openly, and I agree with you on the difference it will make.  Do you place all of your research in the public domain, and relinquish any claim on the apparatus and its variations?  You say "simple replications" and you are even careful not to frame the 'validators' as 'contributors', but what about those who stumble upon more complex improvements.  Is not your work an improvement on anothers?  Isn't your device an accident?  Can you explain the principle of its operation?

>> Do you place all of your research in the public domain, and relinquish any claim on the apparatus and its variations?
I most certainly DO!, if I had planned to make money from it you would never have been told about it.

>>You say "simple replications" and you are even careful not to frame the 'validators' as 'contributors', but what about those who stumble upon more complex improvements
Oh a linguist you are, how can we twist words. You know exactly what I stated. How can anyone construe this to mean I would take any achievement from anyone else? 

 >>Is not your work an improvement on anothers?
Some others and I make full disclosure on my web site.

>> Isn't your device an accident?
Oh yes of course I just happened to stumble across a silly configuration of a circuit as I have presented.

>>Can you explain the principle of its operation?
I do think so and a paper will be offered for publication when I am ready.

Oh by the way, are you a vortex member???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on November 01, 2007, 08:30:20 PM
Well it looks like I misjudged you!

Let me be the first to say that you ROCK!

Also, you are certainly not a fraud.

(But c'mon, that logo...)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 08:39:18 PM
Well it looks like I misjudged you!

Let me be the first to say that you ROCK!

Also, you are certainly not a fraud.

(But c'mon, that logo...)

>>(But c'mon, that logo...)
So what is wrong with my bird? That I will sell to you.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 01, 2007, 08:44:40 PM
Welcome back Dr.  Let's keep moving forward like you said.  It's about the work, not the people anyway.  Overall, I think this is a good group, you will see.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SpongeDave on November 01, 2007, 08:55:45 PM
Well it looks like I misjudged you!

Let me be the first to say that you ROCK!

Also, you are certainly not a fraud.

(But c'mon, that logo...)

>>(But c'mon, that logo...)
So what is wrong with my bird? That I will sell to you.

You are like me in that I also suffer from only hearing the negative.
Actually, you are what drew me to this site. 
I believe strongly in the 2nd Law of thermodynamics and probably wouldn't be caught dead here...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 08:56:08 PM
Welcome back Dr.  Let's keep moving forward like you said.  It's about the work, not the people anyway.  Overall, I think this is a good group, you will see.

Bill
Thank you, we will get there even though we have moles that carry back to other groups false statements.

But I have decided to let other people clean that disgusting mess up.

And Please do continue the Dr., I earned it and when all comes out in the wash the moles will eat their words.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 01, 2007, 09:25:11 PM
@Adriano
Thanks for the request. I will do a series of tests on that level tonight. But, since you mention about the current I am very puzzled by it which comes to my question directed to

@Dr. Stiffer,
thanks for not leaving us and showing your work and even putting this effort for us to learn and may be improve on it. I did my simplified test (a few posts ago) only to eliminate many variables and be able to measure each individual step (I dont have the experience you have). I also tried one of the most simplified versions you posted with only the radio coil, the choque, cap, resistor and one led. I did succeed somewhat and I got the High voltage on the neon light and the led being lit.

My question: measuring the input current on my design (with only the leds and func gen) it was only about less than .10ma (one tenth of a 1 milliamp) and output current being .40ma and you just showed the math that implies a much higher current and voltage is necessary to light the leds, how is it possible that my design still lights 50+ leds? I measured the voltage accros all the leds and is still about 4.3volts. (I understand that somewhat my design is similiar to yours without the amplification, I think)

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 09:35:40 PM
@Adriano
Thanks for the request. I will do a series of tests on that level tonight. But, since you mention about the current I am very puzzled by it which comes to my question directed to

@Dr. Stiffer,
thanks for not leaving us and showing your work and even putting this effort for us to learn and may be improve on it. I did my simplified test (a few posts ago) only to eliminate many variables and be able to measure each individual step (I dont have the experience you have). I also tried one of the most simplified versions you posted with only the radio coil, the choque, cap, resistor and one led. I did succeed somewhat and I got the High voltage on the neon light and the led being lit.

My question: measuring the input current on my design (with only the leds and func gen) it was only about less than .10ma (one tenth of a 1 milliamp) and output current being .40ma and you just showed the math that implies a much higher current and voltage is necessary to light the leds, how is it possible that my design still lights 50+ leds? I measured the voltage accros all the leds and is still about 4.3volts. (I understand that somewhat my design is similiar to yours without the amplification, I think)

Fausto.
If you would please post a circuit diagram I will look at it and see if I can offer meaningful response to your questions.

The example I gave was from a worst case of the work I have done, (well maybe not the worst but close). Anyway there may be many things involved, certain LEDS are very sensitive and you can often get them to flash from the static you pick up when walking on a rug, holding one end and touching the other to a metal mass or ground. But I doubt that is you case, not for 50+ LEDS. I need to really see what you have to offer much. As far as input, it is a moot point if you use some on-board oscillator and worry only about the DC voltage and current supplying it. You can solve any problems from people claiming spikes by hanging a 0.01, 0.1 and 1,000 in parallel across the DC input. For the external oscillator this is where I get so much flak. I think my site explains the methods I have used and I think I may have talked about it earlier in the thread.

Like I say, can you provide a diagram and or picture.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 01, 2007, 09:37:20 PM
This is starting to look like people playing with the OU.COM people now.  Would not be the first time.


But thank god we aren't being sent on unexpected business trips...

 ;)



Dear All,

   I dont know what is going on with my posts, anyway I am in the airport HSBC lounge, my trip is already planned dont worry about it. I was tracked by CIA when I was living Boston.. But why now again? Any way..

   My posts those are asking for using air core rather than BaFe are wiped off???

   Please dont worry for me guys I am safe..

   Regards, have a good night...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2007, 09:49:48 PM
Hi All.
I have just ripped apart my old AM radio and recovered the ferrite coil from it.
Now I am seeing also the neon bulb to light up. Still have to build the new oscillator. More soon.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 10:15:15 PM
Hi all,

Look at pix attached.  1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire.  Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it.  FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 01, 2007, 10:31:45 PM
Thank you Dr. Stiffler,

I understand about the follower to keep the Osc. isolated and provide drive downstream.  You been around the block a few times!.....most excellent.

Also, I have seen lots of those little 12VDC trickle charger Solar panels and as you say, they are junk!.  I have 3 big Siemens 50 W panels on my sailboat.  Now if we could light about 10K LED's, may have something!  Again as you have noted, output is so subjective on LED's unless you put a meter in there, it is a WAG.  As you say, a lot to try down the line...........so many experiments, so little time!

I'm still messing around.  Tried a full wave bridge driven by both ends of the secondary and manage to get about 12 ma out @ around 18 volts across 10 LED's...haven't followed it very far.  Just trying things now to get a feel for what I am working with.  I'm working on comparative innies and outties,  gives you something to think about.  I'm going to try and get a spark gap Wimshurst RF osc. working tonight and drive this thing! Stability will be a bitch. Wonder If I can get it to convert the very HV RF down to a usable voltage and current in your circuit!  Just something else to mess with.

Keep at it, man your post are most excellent and I look for each one as I learn something from them all.

Ben

 


The solar cell, well I have been trying to keep my web site in sync and it is close, but still catching up. That first solar cell is a JOKE and I told the manufacture as much. In full sun the TOY could only generate 30mA. I do have the start of the info on my site at the bottom of the page. In short, to make it work you will need the best cell you can get, I will give examples and you will need to play with some small mirrors to use all the light, but that is later right?  You Bet!
[/quote]
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 01, 2007, 10:57:16 PM
@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 01, 2007, 11:36:04 PM
Message Removed by HSCIA


As I am the only moderator,
if this is not a joke,
it seems your password was hacked.
So change your password.

The forum is not hacked.

@All,
please stay ontopic.
The last offtopic non technical postings have been deleted by me.

I can see now in my new AM coil , that only 1 core out of 3 gives
a neon bulb lighting up at the unconnected coil wire end.
But I have to recheck this.
But one core was definately better than another one.

I also now have a litzwire coil and wound  10 windings of about 0.5 mm
diameter copper wire around it.

I did not yet build up the new oscillator,this comes next.
But with my old function generator going up to about 2 to 3 Mhz
I see now a resonance at around 2 Mhz, but the brightness
of the LEDs is still best, when I just use the 10 windings coil
and not putting the square into litz coil and using the 10 windings coil
as the outpt.
So the just-choke solution is still  better than the transformer solution.

But I can see, that using the ferrite core enhances the light output a bit,
when I remove or insert the ferrite core again.

So I see some gain already versus just driving the LEDs with just only
the signal generator output.

So now I am going to build up the 74AC14 oscillator and will see,
how this behaves at frequencies around 10 Mhz.
Stay tuned for pics and new video.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 12:13:44 AM
@Stefan

Thank you sir. With you now on board I think we are on a road to something that just may have a meaningful impact on humanity.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2007, 12:52:50 AM
@Dr. Stiffler
Thank you for your efforts.
At http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg56857.html#msg56857 (10vpp square waves from the func gen) is the diagram and at http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg56860.html#msg56860 is the 50+ leds lid. THere is nothing on this circuit really but it still lights up pretty well. I tested this over the wall VAC or using a battery with an inverter and same results. I put a ampmeter at point A (on the diagram) and ground (not shown on any of the pics) and thats where I got the output measurement. I also tried with the ampmeter between the lead of the func gen and the first led on the left where I got the input measurement. Notice that it is only one wire going to the leds and one going to the ground. I show it on a video at you tube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-WGgUkOvY.

Dr, the only reason I am asking this is because I really do not understand how is it possible to just using the signal from the func gen to light up all this LEDs. This off course is without the amplification but still and the currents that I am getting back from the amp-meters are way too low for even lighting up one led. (I am a little ashaimed to even ask you this Dr. with such a stupid diagram of mine). I end up with this simple test after trying your design (at http://www.drstiffler.com/ and part #2 Fig: 01 - Basic circuit diagram ) and changing things to the point that it is now.

Oh another thing, if connecting the other lead of the func gen to the point A and/or removing the ground connection the LEDs will NOT light up. Very strange indeed.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 01:00:29 AM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..

Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.

Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series..  Thats is all.  See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw

Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal:  5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A:  27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.

LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.

I'm pretty confident of these readings.  It only gets better with more LED's on the output.  This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........

Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output.  I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right.  There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.

Ben

@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:13:36 AM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..

Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.

Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series..  Thats is all.  See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw

Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal:  5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A:  27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.

LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.

I'm pretty confident of these readings.  It only gets better with more LED's on the output.  This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........

Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output.  I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right.  There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.

Ben

@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.

If the generator will not drive the LEDS direct and you have no inductance, one thing comes to mind. Place 4.7K ohm resistor from your generator to you ground connection, exclusive of the LEDS. In other words the generator Hot lead to one end of the resistor and the other end of the resistor to your ground connection. With a VOM or DVM or DMM measure the voltage across the resistor. Measure both A.C. and D.C. Don't worry about the meters frequency response, I expect to see a high A.C. voltage across the resistor. Even though you tried the inverter arrangement I suspect low level A.C. versus the generator signal.

How all of what I just said is rubbish if you can adjust the frequency to either side and the LEDS dim or go out. Should this be the case I might try a different outlet strip as the one you are using contains harmonic suppression inductors or varistors which could be bleeding into the A.C. hot side.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 01:25:33 AM

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Circuit very resonant around base frequency of 5.8 MHz, tune for max lighting/which shows up as max differential across resistor.  Bandwidth is a few hundred Khz wide.  We are looking at the pure IR drop across resistor @ RF frequency.  Further down in circuit waveforms identical to yours as shown in your scope shots.  Much higher peak to peak voltages after L/C circuit before and feeding BF open ended coil.  Can show scope shots if you need.

Ben

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..

Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.

Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series..  Thats is all.  See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw

Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal:  5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A:  27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.

LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.

I'm pretty confident of these readings.  It only gets better with more LED's on the output.  This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........

Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output.  I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right.  There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.

Ben

@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.

If the generator will not drive the LEDS direct and you have no inductance, one thing comes to mind. Place 4.7K ohm resistor from your generator to you ground connection, exclusive of the LEDS. In other words the generator Hot lead to one end of the resistor and the other end of the resistor to your ground connection. With a VOM or DVM or DMM measure the voltage across the resistor. Measure both A.C. and D.C. Don't worry about the meters frequency response, I expect to see a high A.C. voltage across the resistor. Even though you tried the inverter arrangement I suspect low level A.C. versus the generator signal.

How all of what I just said is rubbish if you can adjust the frequency to either side and the LEDS dim or go out. Should this be the case I might try a different outlet strip as the one you are using contains harmonic suppression inductors or varistors which could be bleeding into the A.C. hot side.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 02, 2007, 01:39:49 AM
I cannot say how happy I am to see all this activity happening and the good doc back as well. :)

@Dr.Stiffler,

does your site server support php/mysql because you could run a CMS (Content Management System) on it and greatly ease the way you update your pages? I could help you out with the setup if you need assistance...

@Stefan,

please post your oscillator circuit here so that others may use it, if it proves to produce necessary drive. We really want everyone to be able to easily replicate all the findings so that naysayers have nothing to say. :)

I have built a new simple square wave oscillator (another hack job) by using a combination of two NAND (from 74HC00) and couple of hex-inverter schmitt triggers (from 74HC14) as the output boost. I find it working better in this configuration than flip-flop on its own or the hex-inverters on their own. I'm attaching a mock-up schematics...with this values I get around 10MHz, use your own judgment on filtering the DC power signal, I'm pretty bad at it. Matter a fact if someone can improve on this would be greatly appreciated.

Has someone tried that LTC based oscillator that was posted here couple of pages back yet?

Lastly could someone please tell me how to (properly) wind a 1.1uH L1 because I have not had much luck doing it so far with various online air coil calculators? I find it that using a commercial choke (of unknown inductance value) I had, makes the circuit work, while my own coils don't, grrrr.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:49:34 AM

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Circuit very resonant around base frequency of 5.8 MHz, tune for max lighting/which shows up as max differential across resistor.  Bandwidth is a few hundred Khz wide.  We are looking at the pure IR drop across resistor @ RF frequency.  Further down in circuit waveforms identical to yours as shown in your scope shots.  Much higher peak to peak voltages after L/C circuit before and feeding BF open ended coil.  Can show scope shots if you need.

Ben

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Took me a while to find a way to make viable measurement with LED as indicator/diode in front end and get rid of capacatance effects and to think through exactly what is going on voltage and duty cycle wise in the circuit..

Found with common ground of signal generator/scope, all floating allowed good measurement.

Circuit is identical to basic circuit with L/C on input except a resistor added directly to sig. generator input then a diode connected to L/C circuit all in series..  Thats is all.  See abbreviated schematic attached......quick hand draw

Resistor 150 ohm carbon non inductive.
Signal:  5.8MHz square wave.
Signal input TP-A:  27 V Peak to Peak square wave +/- around ground.
Signal after Resistor TP-B = 23 V Peak to Peak.
Difference across resistor 4V
Actual difference seen from load due to diode 2V
I=E/R=2/150=.0133 MA.
P=EI=2X.0133=26.6 MW/2 for duty cycle=13.3 MW input.

LED Output" 18V across LED's with 10uf also across them for filtering.
Series Current with DVM in series with LED's= 1.8 Ma. (lousy coil!)
P=EI=18X.0018
Power out=32.4 MW.

I'm pretty confident of these readings.  It only gets better with more LED's on the output.  This thing seems a constant current source till it runs out of voltage..........

Your knowledge of how this thing works I Will not question as to bridge mucking up output.  I haven't tested that..............but I suspect you are right.  There is some funky phasing due to the AV plug working both ways and the virtual ground.

Ben

@k4zep

I may stand corrected, but connecting both of the secondaries to a bridge should remove all chance of any amplification.

You just may have hit on something I have not thought of, with your LED in the input, try two with a 1 ohm in between. Try measuring across the resistor as the impedance is lower this way. I did a similar approach with 20 LEDS split with resistor in between. That allowed some confidence in the measurement. Would be interested in the result. If your scope is grounded it of course will not work. An associate used an ac isolation xformer and did a fair job on readings, buy there is still the capacity. Anyway take the worst case, because you know it is really better.

I put the model number of my solar cells on my site. Beware they are expensive as they are commercial.
Do not be afraid to ask, this is why I am here and what I am asking you all to do, that said lets look at what you have.

If the generator will not drive the LEDS direct and you have no inductance, one thing comes to mind. Place 4.7K ohm resistor from your generator to you ground connection, exclusive of the LEDS. In other words the generator Hot lead to one end of the resistor and the other end of the resistor to your ground connection. With a VOM or DVM or DMM measure the voltage across the resistor. Measure both A.C. and D.C. Don't worry about the meters frequency response, I expect to see a high A.C. voltage across the resistor. Even though you tried the inverter arrangement I suspect low level A.C. versus the generator signal.

How all of what I just said is rubbish if you can adjust the frequency to either side and the LEDS dim or go out. Should this be the case I might try a different outlet strip as the one you are using contains harmonic suppression inductors or varistors which could be bleeding into the A.C. hot side.


You have no idea how much I appreciate your work. Great professional job.
When you feel comfortable with what you have done and your understanding which is very, very close to being right on, then you need a decent coil, because the next phase is to move from milli-watts to watts. Just imagine how it will feel to see your calculations showing watts 'OU' ?  But, are not the milli-watts a thrill?

The next phase is driving the incandescent. Then the cream on the cake.... Boy am I happy for you and my selfish self.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 02:03:09 AM
I cannot say how happy I am to see all this activity happening and the good doc back as well. :)

@Dr.Stiffler,

does your site server support php/mysql because you could run a CMS (Content Management System) on it and greatly ease the way you update your pages? I could help you out with the setup if you need assistance...

@Stefan,

please post your oscillator circuit here so that others may use it, if it proves to produce necessary drive. We really want everyone to be able to easily replicate all the findings so that naysayers have nothing to say. :)

I have built a new simple square wave oscillator (another hack job) by using a combination of two NAND (from 74HC00) and couple of hex-inverter schmitt triggers (from 74HC14) as the output boost. I find it working better in this configuration than flip-flop on its own or the hex-inverters on their own. I'm attaching a mock-up schematics...with this values I get around 10MHz, use your own judgment on filtering the DC power signal, I'm pretty bad at it. Matter a fact if someone can improve on this would be greatly appreciated.

Has someone tried that LTC based oscillator that was posted here couple of pages back yet?

Lastly could someone please tell me how to (properly) wind a 1.1uH L1 because I have not had much luck doing it so far with various online air coil calculators? I find it that using a commercial choke (of unknown inductance value) I had, makes the circuit work, while my own coils don't, grrrr.

Thanks.
One note that I must make for you, your IC drivers are basically current drivers and the output impedance my not be good enough. I tried using SN7400 and no cigar. If you drive from the drain with an inductor by MOSFET may be better. Keep it in mind in case you get poor response.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 02, 2007, 02:14:51 AM
One note that I must make for you, your IC drivers are basically current drivers and the output impedance my not be good enough. I tried using SN7400 and no cigar. If you drive from the drain with an inductor by MOSFET may be better. Keep it in mind in case you get poor response.

I notice that I can connect only so many LEDs until the light gets dimmer than I'd like it to be. Perhaps a combination of the 74HC00/74HC14 for the signal generation and 2N7000 output buffer might work better?

Thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 02, 2007, 02:22:29 AM
@Dr. Stiffler

What I also noticed is this: when I use my driver, if I touch my BaFe core on the edge of the primary side most of the time extinguishes the light from the LEDs. If I use your driver from PL01 circuit then I get the opposite, the LEDs shine so bright they burn my eyes.

Also, since this is driven by a 9V battery if I touch the casing of the battery using your PL01 circuit, the LEDs light up again so bright. Am I grounding the whole circuit by touching the battery casing or the BaFe core?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 02, 2007, 02:37:05 AM
Sorry to go off topic, but has anybody made a backup or mirrored this thread? The last thing we'd want is for some unfortunate "accident" to make it all disappear...

I'm planning on trying a replication myself in a few weeks when I finish uni exams, and I'm just kinda worried that when I get around to it the thread will be inaccessible.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 02:37:36 AM
@Dr. Stiffler

What I also noticed is this: when I use my driver, if I touch my BaFe core on the edge of the primary side most of the time extinguishes the light from the LEDs. If I use your driver from PL01 circuit then I get the opposite, the LEDs shine so bright they burn my eyes.

Also, since this is driven by a 9V battery if I touch the casing of the battery using your PL01 circuit, the LEDs light up again so bright. Am I grounding the whole circuit by touching the battery casing or the BaFe core?

Thanks.

I (think) you are not properly driving it, which could be an impedance match, the coil in the drain of the 2N7000 could be wrong, or you are at the wrong frequency for the coil. What is taking place is the coil is trying to suck in energy, but it is not being supplied by the driver. You are (body) adding a large capacitor interface to the environment and supplying what the coil requires. It may not make much sense yet, trust me, the coil wants energy (that is if it is running at all). Think Source and Sink, the coil is a Sink.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 03:01:04 AM
Thanks Dr. Stiffler,

All I am try to do is verify the operation, Milliwatts, Watts or more, theory and understanding is what I am doing now.  I will say if you are not exactly on the primary resonance frequency, probably NOT OU......it is possible to drive on 2nd and 3rd harmonics or by direct coupling but then nada or no joy.

Got out my #2 (better scope that has good probes and calibration), might get out the big boat anchor later that is a very good scope but it is in another storage closet and a pain to get out unless I really need it. 

Verified numbers again, OU for lack of a better word ratio is very close to my old "don't care if I fry it scope"said......I see the voltage @ resonance rise in the series L/C circuit feeding the BF coil from my 21 volts to about 40 volts @ input. I see the increase in voltage drop across the input resistor as the resonance comes in with voltage rise and current pulls voltage down across resistor......It really is so straightforward that I am amazed.  ANY grounding of the other ends of the coils or core or ground plane and/to each other or ground and voltage is still there but NO current and LED's don't light!  Funky. My core is so poor, I can't drive a NE-2 but been there before, done that so no problem.  With a square wave, I see the integration and back reflection of the power pulse from the BF core into the system which is at max at resonant input frequency.  It simply works as you say it does.  I'm just lucky my "magnet core transformer" works at all.  Have good coils coming. I like the analogy of the core being a SINK!  We won't get into the source theory yet ................Each time I play with the circuit, I see it a bit more clearly.......

 I look forward to the Lamp driver circuit as I remember you saying a 1k across that cap across the AV plug circuit was too hot to touch, now that is power! .5 watt +++  Then a HIGH POWER CIRCUIT you say??????????????????that will be fun!

First time in my life I actually see an OU effect that I can repeat and verify!  Gotta sleep on it, I must be dreaming.

Later and grinning,
Ben


You have no idea how much I appreciate your work. Great professional job.
When you feel comfortable with what you have done and your understanding which is very, very close to being right on, then you need a decent coil, because the next phase is to move from milli-watts to watts. Just imagine how it will feel to see your calculations showing watts 'OU' ?  But, are not the milli-watts a thrill?

The next phase is driving the incandescent. Then the cream on the cake.... Boy am I happy for you and my selfish self[/quote]
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2007, 03:06:11 AM
@Adriano (abassign)
I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 02, 2007, 04:02:21 AM
@Adriano (abassign)
I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly.

Fausto.
In all the years I've spent looking at and reading about different so called O/U devices (nearly 30 years), very few, if any, till now, have
actually looked truly promising to me. Closer inspection and analysis always reveals the flaw/s.

Dr Stiffler, you really seem to be onto something very special here. Great replications by Amigos and Plengo and K4Zep serve to further the advances in understanding this strange effect.

I just found and viewed the video "part 9". Fantastic progress!

I am waiting in great anticipation for "part 10". Dr Stiffler, you've been very open with your discoveries, and I have no doubt,
that your contributions will one day soon, benefit humanity. I only hope that humanity will be be grateful and also reward your endevours.

Great Stuff, I'm staying tuned to this thread, and looking forward to each and every lesson, from all of you!

KneeDeep from The Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 02, 2007, 05:01:22 AM
Has anybody got a link to a low-cost oscillator circuit, with easy-to-get parts? The biggest problem for me (and many other electronics noobs) is going to be getting hold of a ~12mhz square wave generator.

The LTC1799 circuit posted before is problematic, because the LTC1799 is hard to come by where I live (Australia).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 07:19:05 AM
Hmm,
I am back, buttoo tired now to post pictures and make a video.

I also have no luck it seems.

It seems I  bought the wrong part.
The 74AC14 hex schmitt trigger inverted can only be
used with maximum 6 Volts supply voltage and I thought,
that I could use 15 Volts...

Which is the right part for 15 Volts supply ?
Is it the 74 HC14?

So I get now only around 4 Volts peak to peak
AC high frequency voltage from this generator.

I am using the attached circuit diagram
and am driving the rest of the inverters in parallel to get
a better current output.
( The circuit diagram is from a 74HC14 type PDF file,
but I have only here now a 74AC14)

Also it seems I always get better results with just
a choke from the 10 windings wired around my AM Litz coil.
When I put the ferrite core into the coils, the brightness of the LED
gets worse,also if I retune the oscillator !
I tried 3 different ferrite cores, but none will give me
any amplification in this moment.
Well I used a trimmer capacitor to change the frequency and
the range is not very big now.
Maybe around 8 to 12 Mhz now.
I need to use a potentiometer for to change the resistor value
to get a better range and  be able to tune the circuit much better..

Sorry, but in this moment I can not see any OU effect and even
a 10 winding aircore coil as choke in front of the Avramenko plug
just works best at around 10 Mhz.
This just gives me the brightest light from the LED.

By the way, I changed again back to a normal Avramenko plug
having 2 x 1N4148 diodes and 1 blue bright light LED.

When I used the 3 LEDs I don?t get them to light up,
you need much higher voltages then...

I tried all combinations of coils and cores I had, but this the
10 winding aircore choke gives me the best light output.

One pin of the Avramenko plug LED must be grounded or
was connected to my stainless steel mesh.

Then I get very good light at around 10 Mhz from the Avramenko plug LED.
But I did not measure yet the input power from my batteries into the 74AC14
circuit.
I am driving via the 5 parallel inverter outputs a 6.8 nF cap and then the 10 winding
aircore choke (about 1 cm diameter) and then via one wire to the Avramenko plug with the
LED.
One LED pin is then connected to the stainless steel mesh hanging isolated in the air.

This gives the best light right now...

Also I only have round cores, no flat ferrite cores.

Okay, so far my oberservations.
Next step is to enhance the oscillator to be able to tune
from around 1 Mhz to 20 Mhz with a pot
and have a higher peak to peak output voltage.

But I guess, I just don?t have the right cores !

Please Ron,
can you check, if also other cores work for you
and how your circuit behaves, when you remove the core
from the coils ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 02, 2007, 07:37:42 AM
@plengo

"I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly".

Fantastic! You are reproduced the Avramenko experiment!
It would now be interesting to close the circuit to mass with the generator of signals, to see if this has effect to heat the thin wire. If you have a termocouple or thermometer you can measure the heating of the thread in the two cases.

I think that your experiment is fundamental better to understand the phenomenon. To what frequency are you using the generator of signals? And possible measure the current which comes along the wire with the oscilloscopio which I have seen in the photography? Can you send an image to be able to understand the current he passes to you? And also the tension.

Can you use/build a simple signal generator, powered by a battery and therefore do again the tests verifying the absorption of the oscillator (always with the oscilloscope) and the group of the LEDs?

I Think is important to understand  if the system composed by:
oscillator-> wire -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?

If is only a transport media the envelopment L1-L2-L3 used by Stiffer becomes fundamental.

At this point tries to insert only L1, do a test for his dimensioning and verifies what happens.
oscillator-> wire -> L1 -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?

You can obviously olso insert the other parts and remake the experiment...

However always tries to use a simple and oscillator powered by a battery.

Best regards
Adriano

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 07:40:41 AM
@plengo

"I tested using a 8 feet super thin wire, smaller than human hair, and nothing, no heat at all and ALL 50+ LEDs are lit brigthly".




Hi,
do you need to match the driver frequency to the length
of the wire ?

What if you change the length ?

Do you then also have to adjust the
frequency ?
So is it a standing wave ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 07:41:39 AM
Here is the circuit I was using for the
oscillator.
( my inverters were all 74AC14)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 09:28:39 AM
Okay,I just looked it up,
only the 74C14 is CMOS compatible with up to 15 Volts power
supply voltage.
The 74AC14 I bought is only good up to 7 Volts maximum...!  :'(

So I wonder, which is the fasted hex inverter schmitt trigger,
thatcan use 15 Volts supply voltage ?

How fast is the 40106 or 4584 compared to the 74C14 ?

Which one is the fasted and good available ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 02, 2007, 12:37:43 PM
Does anyone have comments on the remarks at   http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit#Forum

He doesn't seem to think there is anything unusual about Dr. Stiffler's circuit:

========
This circuit is similar to a very common circuit used by thousands of people everyday to power the flash lamps in disposable cameras....Since the bulb is a 15 watt bulb, it will be bright during the 1/10 second it is consuming 14.4 watts. Thus the circuit performance can easily be explained without ?cold electricity? or ?over unity?.

Note that the primary of the transformer is being fed with an RF frequency signal. It is unclear if this is deliberate or if it is a parasitic oscillation. The open lead on the secondary of the transformer is not actually unconnected at RF frequencies but is connected to other parts of the circuit by the parasitic capacitance of the lead. Same for the neon bulbs.
========
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 01:38:41 PM
Does anyone have comments on the remarks at   http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit#Forum

He doesn't seem to think there is anything unusual about Dr. Stiffler's circuit:

========
This circuit is similar to a very common circuit used by thousands of people everyday to power the flash lamps in disposable cameras....Since the bulb is a 15 watt bulb, it will be bright during the 1/10 second it is consuming 14.4 watts. Thus the circuit performance can easily be explained without ?cold electricity? or ?over unity?.

Note that the primary of the transformer is being fed with an RF frequency signal. It is unclear if this is deliberate or if it is a parasitic oscillation. The open lead on the secondary of the transformer is not actually unconnected at RF frequencies but is connected to other parts of the circuit by the parasitic capacitance of the lead. Same for the neon bulbs.


========The gentleman has done a bang up job analyzing the circuit without building it using excellent conventional theory. He hasn't a clue as to why the RF is used, the resonance factor in the circuit, the AV plug theory, the BF coil theory, his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there.

 IF it were a standard transformer, OSC/ etc.  His numbers are dead on.  BUT, by not building the Stiffler circuit, an analyzing what is going on, making measurements as to the actual input/output power, totally misses the point and calculations..........sad.  The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 02, 2007, 01:52:50 PM
his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there....The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.

Ben [/b][/b]

Thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 02:10:15 PM
his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there....The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.

Ben [/b][/b]

Thanks for the reply.
@canam101

I don't feel this thread wants to focus on NEGATIVE or SPECULATIVE assessments, unless it is by one of those in the threat that are dedicated and applying effort towards finding the answer for themselves. In this thread we have people spending time that could be spent with family, sports etc., looking into these circuits for answers. The evidence shown here has already out weighted any from your reference.

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 02, 2007, 02:20:20 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 02, 2007, 02:44:08 PM
@Stefan

>>Please Ron,
can you check, if also other cores work for you
and how your circuit behaves, when you remove the core
from the coils ?

I know I have answered this a hundred times, but can't find where. One last time.

I tried various core material I have at the lab, most unknown content, some for AF, RF and LF chokes. I tried xformer cores and pot cores. I did not get any worthwhile results from these attempts. Nothing I would not agree was standard EE results.

I still remain amazed that others seem to. Hey maybe I did something wrong. But your on you won in this area, I have noting to offer other than I could not get results.

You IC approach to a driver. I think I mentioned this to 'amigo', this is not a current driven anomaly, the input impedance is so high that it just is not the correct approach. Voltage driven and impedance matching in the driver is the most important part of the replication. You can see this is true in the other replication postings.

I am happy to hear that you have at least seen the HV occur. Your close, don't dismay.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 02, 2007, 05:02:04 PM
@Adriano,
Quote
Fantastic! You are reproduced the Avramenko experiment!
Did I? well, I am glad of that!


Quote
It would now be interesting to close the circuit to mass with the generator of signals, to see if this has effect to heat the thin wire. If you have a termocouple or thermometer you can measure the heating of the thread in the two cases.
I dont' think I will be able to measure any heat from this wire in my lab. It is so small, if any, that I would need a more controled envrionment for that.

Quote
I think that your experiment is fundamental better to understand the phenomenon. To what frequency are you using the generator of signals? And possible measure the current which comes along the wire with the oscilloscopio which I have seen in the photography? Can you send an image to be able to understand the current he passes to you? And also the tension.
I agree. I am very puzzled by being able to light those leds with so little power. I measure again last night the current in/out and it is very interesting that the in current is less than .1 milliamp and the out can be as high as 20milliamp. Voltage has been very difficult to measure, it affects everything.  I will take some shots of the oscilloscope from many different places in the circuit.


Quote
Can you use/build a simple signal generator, powered by a battery and therefore do again the tests verifying the absorption of the oscillator (always with the oscilloscope) and the group of the LEDs?
I am working on that already. Soon I will be running this thing without the func-gen.


Quote
I Think is important to understand  if the system composed by:
oscillator-> wire -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?

If is only a transport media the envelopment L1-L2-L3 used by Stiffer becomes fundamental.

At this point tries to insert only L1, do a test for his dimensioning and verifies what happens.
oscillator-> wire -> L1 -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?
I also tested this circuit in parallel to another one very similliar where ALL the leds are in parallel, about 15 more, and they all light bright (so a total of 70 leds). It seams that If I decouple the signal from the func-gen from the circuits I can run many more circuits at the same time with no logical reason from where the power is coming from. (I know this sounds craizy, but hey, Dr. Stiffler started all).
One more note: I tried last night also using a long, very long cable about 50 feet, to feed the system. It is a lamp wire with two lines, I connected the func-gen (one lead only) to one wire and on the other end I connected the OTHER wire to the circuit and it all works still, even though they are no longer the same wire (I will show later in a diagram). Interesting stuff. Now here is the trick, when the signal comes into the circuit from the "not same wire" I have no current at all in the ground but when they are the "same wire" there is current on the ground. Figures!

@hartiberlin 
Quote
do you need to match the driver frequency to the length of the wire ?
What if you change the length ?
Do you then also have to adjust the
frequency ?
So is it a standing wave ?
No. It is the same frequency in this case. The wire was about 8 feet long. I dont khow if it is a standing wave.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 05:03:22 PM
Hi Ron,
do I understand this right, that you said, that one needs the right special core material, otherwise it would not work ?

Then I guess, I still have not yet the right ferrite cores...
Maybe I really shoild order a few pieces from this Ebay seller....

To the question about the 74AC14 driver IC.
The output of this 5 inverters in parallel
should be so low in impedance to be able to drive quite a load. From your scopeshots I have seen, that you also drove your core with about 4 Volts, but I never get anywhere to 26 Volts in my circuit...
Hmm, I only have very low light on the neon bulb and also already just at the oscillator output without the coil-core...
I am going out now buying better parts. Stay tuned...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Grim on November 02, 2007, 05:06:59 PM
Wow, what an amazing thread!

I have been reading the whole thing today, and I am astounded.
The work on replicating Stiflers device is incredible.

Reminds me of my first introduction to electronics, when I was a cub scout.
Back then is when I was first inspired by an electrical device, and the same feeling comes over me now when I read this thread.

God bless you Stifler, and good luck.

I will watch from the sidelines, with bated breathe, as this gathers momentum.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 07:22:22 PM
Just came back from
www.segor.de
and bought a few 40106 hex inverters
2.2 uH coils and some smaller pF caps for my
oscillator.

I also had a look at the LTC 1799,
but man, is this thing small !

Too small for my soldering iron and
I could not handle this thing with my
hands.
It costs there 3,80 EU per piece.

If somebody would have a circuit board for it,
which I could buy, maybe this would be an alternative,
but for now I am trying to use just the 40106 hex schmitt trigger
IC.
Now I might get a higher amplitude with using 15 Volts supply.

P.S: Ben can you try your setup please with modifying your coil-
magnet core combination and tell us, what change will still work and
what not ?

We need to get to the parameters, which really produce the power amplification.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 02, 2007, 08:19:56 PM
Stefan,

Will wind an air core coil this evening 7-8 EST and report. My core not is not removable on the Ferrite magnet as I wound it directly on it with no paper/slideable insulation as I wanted as close coupling as I could get.

 Just puttering around now waiting for parts to come in.  I agree that LTC is a Little Tiny Chip..........wow......

IF the device is working correctly, you should see elongation of the waveforms from the BF which I suspect is where the extra energy comes from........I still have a bunch to learn, I wish I knew 1/10 what the good Dr. knows!  All the questions we have are old hat to him..  Any test of a circuit takes 20-30 min to get all the measurements down exact and crunching the data.  I really am curious if there is anything else that will excite the way BF core does and provide this output. 

REMEMBER you MUST have that L/C input series resonant device between the driver/generator and the BF coil for it to work properly  and it must be at resonance for maximum output.......at least that is a start.  The funkest thing is the possibility of a negative resistance or inductance reported by Dr. Stiffler with the BF coil on his inductance meter.  I have to look into that!!!!

Ben K4ZEP

Just came back from
www.segor.de
and bought a few 40106 hex inverters
2.2 uH coils and some smaller pF caps for my
oscillator.

I also had a look at the LTC 1799,
but man, is this thing small !

Too small for my soldering iron and
I could not handle this thing with my
hands.
It costs there 3,80 EU per piece.

If somebody would have a circuit board for it,
which I could buy, maybe this would be an alternative,
but for now I am trying to use just the 40106 hex schmitt trigger
IC.
Now I might get a higher amplitude with using 15 Volts supply.

P.S: Ben can you try your setup please with modifying your coil-
magnet core combination and tell us, what change will still work and
what not ?

We need to get to the parameters, which really produce the power amplification.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 08:37:21 PM
Hi all,

Look at pix attached.  1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire.  Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it.  FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.

Ben

Ben,
please can you test, how much dependend the output brightness  of your LEDs is
on the used signal generator voltage level ? 27 Volts pp ?

What, if you used a lower driving voltage ?
What frequency do you use ? Which is the best one ?
Can you go as low as 4 Volts peak to peak to drive it and
have still the LEDs lit the same brightness ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2007, 08:40:39 PM


REMEMBER you MUST have that L/C input series resonant device between the driver/generator and the BF coil for it to work properly  and it must be at resonance for maximum output.......at least that is a start.  The funkest thing is the possibility of a negative resistance or inductance reported by Dr. Stiffler with the BF coil on his inductance meter.  I have to look into that!!!!

Ben K4ZEP



Okay, yes, I did not have this LC resonance circuit yet between the oscillator and the core.
But now have the right parts hopefully,but I only got 330 pF and 470 pF foil caps , no 400 pF silver cap...

Well, back to the table to work now on it.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 12:23:23 AM
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 03, 2007, 12:39:25 AM
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are $1,495 new. :(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 03, 2007, 12:41:38 AM
@plengo

"the current in/out and it is very interesting that the in current is less than .1 milliamp and the out can be as high as 20milliamp"

Is not clear, where are the point that the current is 0.1 mA and that is 20 mA ?

How thin was the thin wire ? If you cannot measure it, tries to wrap it on a cilinder and after 10-20 turns seeing how wide is.

If the electric wave is longitudinal, the current could change along the thread, you can measure the current in several points of the thread ? For instance if the thread is 50 ft. every 5/10 ft? This measure can allows to know as runs the current along the thread. You mast repeat the measure 2-3 times.

"I am working on that already. Soon I will be running this thing without the func-gen."

Perfect, measuring the power which feeds the circuit and isolating the circuit from the mass is very important.

I also tested this circuit in parallel ...  I have no current at all in the ground but when they are the "same wire" there is current on the ground. Figures!

It is necessary explain better what you have observed and send a diagram.
As you describe the experiment, do you can increase the LED number without reducing their luminous emission ? However is necessary to obtain an oscillator powered by batteries before to do the quantitative tests.

Are you able to do a test also with L1 (in or out the thin wire) ?

Best regards
Adriano (Italy)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 12:50:45 AM
Hi all,

Look at pix attached.  1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire.  Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it.  FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.

Ben

Ben,
please can you test, how much dependend the output brightness  of your LEDs is
on the used signal generator voltage level ? 27 Volts pp ?

Input voltage PP vs. output seems linear but have really not measured it or graphed it.

What, if you used a lower driving voltage ?
LEDs are porportnately dimmer.

What frequency do you use ? Which is the best one ?  Depend on leads, etc. anywhere between 5-8 MHz.  Totally dependent on the resonant frequency of the series circuit driving the BF coil/core.
Can you go as low as 4 Volts peak to peak to drive it and
have still the LEDs lit the same brightness ? 

I can't but my coil is very NON STANDARD.  There are a whole bunch of variables in there as to number of turns, coupling, etc.  A real analysis of the circuit would take time and be a real brain teaser.  I'm sure @ 4V Peak to Peak I can get energy transfer across the circuit, whether there would be enough to drive a LED is a question.  You have to have enough to turn on the diodes in the AV plug @ their summing junction.  Then there has to be enough voltage and current to fire off the LEDs.  I'll know a lot more when I get my coils in.  I have some very nice litz wire that I can play around with a basic core and see if there is an optimum turn ratio on the device and answer a lot of questions I have as to what is going on.  It MIGHT have nothing to do with turn ratio up to a point and then it might have everything to do with the BF resonance frequencies within the mass of the core and then the resonance of the large coil around it to match that frequency for maximum energy transfer/out.  Another thing to remember is that this circuit can operate as a simple AV plug, one wire device @ under unity values.  So there is no problem lighting a LED with RF or AF with the AV plug, just not the gain you want!...........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 12:54:27 AM
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are $1,495 new. :(

I cannot emphasize how important Ebay is for test equipment.  I live and die with equipment off there.  Most of my test equipment I get for less than 1/10 of what it cost new!  Of course you have to read the fine print and know what you are doing but for us old timers, what a deal!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 01:18:02 AM
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are $1,495 new. :(

Close by, it was some liquidation where they had it, was not tested just powered up in the picture so I took a chance. Now at the closer inspection it seems that the function generator output is bad since I get nothing on the 1st BNC to the right - only get the pulse/square out (2nd BNC from the right) and the rest of the SYNC outs. Luckily, I found a full manual with the service schematics so hopefully I can figure it out.

There was one more seller with this model of Wavetek who offered it to me for $150. I am PM-ing you the details since you were interested, otherwise if you are not just post the details here. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 01:22:14 AM
I cannot emphasize how important Ebay is for test equipment.  I live and die with equipment off there.  Most of my test equipment I get for less than 1/10 of what it cost new!  Of course you have to read the fine print and know what you are doing but for us old timers, what a deal!

Amen to that!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 03, 2007, 01:48:47 AM
Preliminary note only:

Results with ferrite antenna transformer, 2 IN4148 diodes and LED. All tests done with "open air" circuit (no breadboard -- no capacitive metal anywhere close, no earth connections).

No problems getting LED to light.

Coupling from signal generator::
Presence (or absence) of series capacitor (470pf) or inductor 2,2uH in signal generator supply line make no difference to operation.

Diode type used for Avramenko Rectifier (AR)::
Testing several types of diodes suggests that diode capacitance needs to be low. Circuit worked poorly with ultra high speed power diodes (medium junction capacitance) and did not work with 200V schottkey (highest junction capacitance). These results suggest that low serial capacitance is required in the load for optimal output.

Capacitive load tests::
Placing series capacitance in the load dramatically reduces the output while placing parallel capacitance enhances the output. Parallel capacitance on the load does not effect the resonance frequency.  Capacitance to ground on the load side enhances the output although the resonance is shifted to a lower frequency - as you would expect.

Load diode orientation::
Same operation with load LED in either orientation. Similar output power with two LED?s in parallel. No output with two LEDs parallel in opposing orientation. It appears that a polarized capacitive load is required for operation.

Preliminary finding on capacitive load::
Parallel capacitance is required on the load for function. This can be provided by capacitive coupling to ground or across the AV plug directly or via the junction capacitance of a load diode.

Square vs sine wave drive::
Both sine and square waves work just as well at the fundamental resonance. Square wave works better at sub-harmonic frequencies.

Principal resonances with no load to ground::
The fundamental resonance with no capacitive loading to ground (15ph scope probes) on the load was 12Mhz. Sub harmonics that give significant output are the 1/3 and 1/4. The principal frequency of 12Mhz gives the greatest output.

Principal resonances with load to ground::
With symmetrical 15pf load to ground on the output the principal resonance was reduced to 9.4 Mhz. Both 1/3 and 1/4 sub harmonics were present. The 1/4 frequency (2.34Mhz) now give the highest output. The waveform of the 2.34Mhz resonance is a rounded triangle wave indicating 3rd harmonic (almost a text book example of triangle wave synthesis with first and third harmonic components). The principal resonance was observed directly and in ringing on square wave drive at lower frequencies. Measurements of the frequency on the ringing confirmed the presence of a single principal resonant mode.

Load waveforms::
At all times the signals on the load were in phase but had a DC offset.
 
Single and double ended drive::
The circuit works similarly with single or double ended drive to the primary.

All tests were done with a HP33120A signal generator (10 Vp-p output). Measurements were made with Tektronix TAS 475 scope (100MHz 4 trace). Unless indicated otherwise all scope measurements were done with 10X scope probes with tips held close to leads to eliminate load effects on the measured circuit.

The next tests will look at antenna transformer ? number and direction of turns in the primary and secondary and alternate cores. I will also measure the Q of the principal resonance. Load tests will look at inductive influences.

Cheers

mark.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 03, 2007, 02:03:12 AM
I don't know whether to be alarmed or just disappointed, but I tried to re-view Cold Electricity Part 9, and could no longer find it anywhere!!??

 :-\

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 02:07:21 AM
Hi Mark,
many thanks for the tests.
Yes around 12 Mhz I also get now the best light output, but still better when the core is removed.
As I only have a 10 Mhz scope the measurements have to be done with the horizontal 5x zoom factor, as my deflection time only goes to 0.5 usec.
The new IC 40106 is now much better and I will later post pictures and a new video.
But I still think I dont have the right cores, cause I dont get any amplification...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 02:16:24 AM
P.S. I still have a few ferrite fridge magnets laying around here.
I will later also wound 2 coils around them and try these.
Ben, did you use Litz wire for the primary coil in your magnet-coil setup ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 03, 2007, 02:23:05 AM
I don't know whether to be alarmed or just disappointed, but I tried to re-view Cold Electricity Part 9, and could no longer find it anywhere!!??

 :-\

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops

Its still where it was put?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 03, 2007, 02:38:18 AM
@Mark
Thanks for the detailed test report.

I am having limited success.
Signal generator, HP 33250A, voltage 10 V. Oscilloscope Tektronix TDS2014B.

Using the specified core.
I can light up red LEDs not very bright at 3.610 MHz. Neon light up occasionally. Generally the circuit behavior is very itratic. I can not light up blue LEDs.

I have not observed much difference between square wave or sine wave.
I tried driving up to 20 MHz slowly but no cookies.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 03, 2007, 02:54:17 AM
@Mark
Thanks for the detailed test report. I am having limited success.
Signal generator, HP 33250A, voltage 10 V. Oscilloscope Tektronix TDS2014B.

Using the specified core.
I can light up red LEDs not very bright at 3.610 MHz. Neon light up occasionally. Generally the circuit behavior is very itratic. I can not light up blue LEDs.

From my breif experience I would say:

3.6 MHz is probably the 1/4 harmonic and is best stimulated with square wave. THat would put the fundamental at about 14.4 Mhz.
When driving at 3.6 Mhz with square wave prove the output at the common base of the AP by placing the scope probe tip close to the wire. The signal will only be in the mv range but it should be clean. Is it a rounded triangle wave? ... if it is then this is the 1/4 sub harmonic.

To get much higher output and more reliable opperation clip two scope leads (10X) to the output LED. This will shift the resoances lower but does dramaticaly increace output voltage.

Mark.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 02:58:32 AM
@MarkSnoswell

Pardon me for being presumptuous, but I believe we know each other, that is, we have known each other for a long time. If I recall correctly we used to be on some 3dsmax plugins beta teams and what not and we know the same people. Or perhaps a hint would be 3DLuVr?

Just the most unlikely place that we'd meet after so many years, did not know you had interest in alternative energy.

Sorry to be off topic...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 03, 2007, 03:02:15 AM
In other news, I have fixed my Wavetek 191 so it fully works now with all waveforms. Prior owners have done a botchy job in replacing the BNC female connector and there was no contact.

My resonance are found around 11MHz and 19MHz, will find out exactly soon. I still do not see my neon light up...humbug.

EDIT: resonances at ~3.01MHz and ~9.51MHz
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 03, 2007, 03:15:01 AM
@Mark
Thanks again. My observations were only with the signal generator attached. If the scope is connected the OP seems quite strong. The Blue LED turns on quite nicely then.


@DrStiffler,
I have a batch of the 680uH cores and as they are the critical part of this investigation I wanted to clear up a few points.

1- The number turns you specified at 9 turns but I count 11 in the picture.
2- You did say that the sense of the L3 should be the same as the L2 core. Please can you verify that. Either my L2 cores are wound the wrong way by the manufacturer or the  image may be mirrored somehow.
3- You use a symbol for the L2-L3 combination which indicates 3 different windings. L2, as arrives from the supplier only has one winding. Am I missing something?

regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 03, 2007, 03:32:19 AM
[
Its still where it was put?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2QjJWn-bzE

Thank you Ron for posting the link. Must have been a glitch in my IE ???
I've added it straight to my favourites folder.

Fascinating stuff! Eagerly awaiting the next "Chapter"!  :)

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 05:31:45 AM
Okay, hereare for now already 4 pictures of my new tests.

I just rewired the 10 turn coil around the Litzwire coil into the other
direction and guess what, I for the first time saw
now the neon bulb glowing really bright,
but only, when I don?t use the core...
Hmm...

Check this out.
The winding direction of the 2 coils seems to be very important !

I also recorded 2 videos while playing with the setup
and you can see, how I suddenly stumbled onto the
neon bulb glowing brightly for the first time.
But you will also see, that the LED still is brighter,
just without my cores...just the coils alone...

I have toconvert now the videos from the camera format
to amore commom format.
Stay tuned.
Maybe I could buy from Ron a verified core, so
I could really test it with the amplification...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 05:40:31 AM
P.S.: My AM Litzwire coil has indeed 2 coils on there, one larger turn coil
and one smaller turn coil,cause it also was used for longwave in the
radio I got it from..

So you see 4 litzwires coming from the coil plus 2 wires from the 10 turn coil around it.

The thing at the right side after the big red 470 pF  is the 2.2uH coil,
it looks like a resistor but is actually a coil.

I had modified the 40106 oscillator circuit this way, that I have now
only 3 hex-inverter drivers in parallel and am using
2 inverters after the single oscillator inverter to
"sharpen and fasten" the waveform.

Maybe as the circuit seems not to need much current,
I should only use one inverter as the output driver and
use all the others to fasten the waveform ?
I will try this later...

The scope you see shows about 12 Mhz waveform.
I used in this test a powersupply with 12 Volts DC
and the amplifier on the scope is set to 5 volts /div,so
the AC amplitude was about 8  to 9 Volts peak to peak.
It was measured at the last driver output directly.
the scope ground was connected to the circuit ground.
The scope was grounded, but I did not need now the
metal mesh what I normally used at one LED pin.

The ground line of the scope was directly in the center of the scope screen.
If you have questions please let me know,but maybe you will
just wait for the 2 videos.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 06:44:20 AM
P.S. if somebody wonders,
I only have a 100:1divider scope head connected at the scope.


So, now the first new video is online at:

http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti02.avi

It uses the newer DIVX.COM  video codec and MP3 audio codec.

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 03, 2007, 07:23:11 AM
@hartberlin
Congratulations Stefan. Good job.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 07:24:21 AM
Okay, now also the last movie is online:

http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti03.avi

Please post your comments to this.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 09:24:00 AM
Okay, my videos are now also online at Youtube
over here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/overunitydotcom

Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 03, 2007, 10:35:07 AM
Stefan,
Thank you for the report. So in your experiment you did not need the core after all. Are you talking TPU now?!

Is your scopes power input ground floating or connected to the eartth of the mains?

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on November 03, 2007, 11:13:55 AM
I want to take this opportunity to voice my highest respect for Dr. Stiffler AND 'the whole team' that has gathered in the operating theater.

...
http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti03.avi

@hartiberlin
I watched your video, harti, and noticed that you use very long cores together with a relatively short coil. You insert the core so that it protrudes very far beyond the left side of the coil and stands out only very short beyond the other side of the coil.
Maybe it would make a difference if you positioned the coil symmetrically in the center of the core.
Note that Dr. Stiffler's 'magic coil' is also wound symmetrically over the middle of the core.

Thanks again to everybody.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
P.S. I still have a few ferrite fridge magnets laying around here.
I will later also wound 2 coils around them and try these.
Ben, did you use Litz wire for the primary coil in your magnet-coil setup ?

No for the initial device I used 300T #32 for the secondary and 50T (now reduced to 10T) for the primary, my understanding of how the unit worked at that time was faulted, have learned a lot more since then.  I believe my magnet core has very low activity (some) but not much.  Even then though, it does show small 4/1 gain. At the mw range we are working in, that is just a small but very important whistle in the dark.

In reading the next series of post down below it is obvious that a few points are being missed.  The AV "plug" theory is alive and well and is fairly easy to replicate using basically any frequency if you have high enough voltage. It is simply a longitudinal wave device and works very well as a 1 wire transducer/rectifier ETC but that is really off topic.  BUT it is also a very good longitudinal wave impedance converter for the output of the BF......

 The excitation of the core of the BF AM radio core is a little more difficult to do but I see a lot of people working on it.  I also noticed someone suggested that the basic frequency was in the 14-18 MHz range and I am beginning to suspect that too as one of the units Dr. Stiffler built that self Osc. was producing a burst around 18 MHz if I remember correct.  It is early here coffee just starting to sink in.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 12:27:54 PM
Okay, my videos are now also online at Youtube
over here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/overunitydotcom

Enjoy !

Regards, Stefan.
Good morning Stefan, Looked at your videos on Youtube NOW put the core back in and vary frequency, you should get an output on the large winding when you hit the right freq. somewhere between 4-10Mhz!  Very good work. The tuning will be fairly sharp within 3-400 KHz.  Outside that resonant frequency (resonant frequency of the BF excititation/coil) no output.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 03, 2007, 01:28:04 PM
Hi All,

Doing some basic looking and thinking this AM.  In playing (my wife says I'm playing) the more I realize how important the scope shots in Dr. Stifflers article on his web page are.  Everything is there that we need to know if we will just digest it!

There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device.  That is where its output is!  I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output.  My core resonatesor pumps @ around 8 MHZ but my L/C resonates @ 5 MHz so I see most output around that 5MHz frequency due to to the HV generated by it at that freq. in spite of the mismatch.   I must re-resonate my L/C circuit @ the base frequency of the BF core and see what happens.  I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.

I also see the burst effect where the BF coil pumps out a cycle (now you know I'm old) every 3-4 Hz depending on the input frequency....You live and die with this thing via a scope.

Actually now I'm turning off everything.  Wife wants to go to Flea Market and I am going downtown to the the annual "Strictly Sail" sailboat show in St. Petersburg, FL......150 NEW way outta my price range sailboats ($100K--Million+++) and oodles of goodles (stuff) to put on them...A man can dream....Will get back to this tonight.  Thats all for this AM.

Oh, Stefan, I like your bread-board work.....been there done that!!!!!!

Ben

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 03, 2007, 01:55:51 PM
There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device.  That is where its output is!  I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output.  ... I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.

The fundamental resonance appears to come from the inductance of the secondary and the junction capacitance of the IN4148 diodes. I have attached the datasheet here. The secondary sees a complex capacitance from the two AP diodes -- however even a sinple LC resonance calculation shows that the figures agree pretty well. Here is a link to a good LC resonance calculator http://www.pronine.ca/lcf.htm.  If you want to tune further then set up a resonator on the primary side for the same frequency...

You could try to tune the two just out of phase -- this will result in the power beating between the input and output -- exactly the same as in good tesla coil design. This may work better than exact tuning as the total power transfered wont be any less but the higher voltages at the AP may reduce losses in power transfer there. It's hard to predict and the tight coupling of the primary and secondary may limit this aproach.

Whatever you do -- tuning the primary side to the same frequency will certainty reduce losses in the AP and inprove power transfer.

cheers

mark.
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 03, 2007, 01:56:42 PM
@Mark
Thanks again. My observations were only with the signal generator attached. If the scope is connected the OP seems quite strong. The Blue LED turns on quite nicely then.


@DrStiffler,
I have a batch of the 680uH cores and as they are the critical part of this investigation I wanted to clear up a few points.

1- The number turns you specified at 9 turns but I count 11 in the picture.
2- You did say that the sense of the L3 should be the same as the L2 core. Please can you verify that. Either my L2 cores are wound the wrong way by the manufacturer or the  image may be mirrored somehow.
3- You use a symbol for the L2-L3 combination which indicates 3 different windings. L2, as arrives from the supplier only has one winding. Am I missing something?

regards

AM
The coil issue is covered earlier in the thread and on my web site, but the primary needs to be wound in the sane direction as the secondary.

The diagram although looking like two coils on the secondary is meant only to show that the secondary has more turns than the primary.

To find out if you did wrap one wrong, look t my site, I have a whole section on how this was found and solved.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 08:32:42 PM
Stefan,
Thank you for the report. So in your experiment you did not need the core after all. Are you talking TPU now?!

Is your scopes power input ground floating or connected to the eartth of the mains?

AM


Yes, my crappy scope is grounded unfortunately.
I have to glue some tape onto the ground wire, so it is isolated.
I will do this today and will see, if it makes a difference.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 08:35:52 PM
I want to take this opportunity to voice my highest respect for Dr. Stiffler AND 'the whole team' that has gathered in the operating theater.

...
http://www.overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti03.avi

@hartiberlin
I watched your video, harti, and noticed that you use very long cores together with a relatively short coil. You insert the core so that it protrudes very far beyond the left side of the coil and stands out only very short beyond the other side of the coil.
Maybe it would make a difference if you positioned the coil symmetrically in the center of the core.
Note that Dr. Stiffler's 'magic coil' is also wound symmetrically over the middle of the core.

Thanks again to everybody.

Yes,I tried it already and only at the end of the core I get better brightness than in the center..
Do you think it would be good to break thecore apart and make it shorter ?
Maybe it depends on the length of the core also ?

Maybe some kind of standing wave inside the core ?
This would give a whole new perspective to it all and
the input frequency alsomust be choosen to have a standing
wave inside the core ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 08:57:37 PM
Dear Ben,
well with my selfbuilt oscillator the tuning is not easy.
I have to get the trim-capacitors to turn right and the frequency
can also still shift a bit.

I have 2 trim capacitors in parallel,
this one, 3 to 40 pF :

(http://www.segor.de/bilder/000013a1.jpg)
and
this one, 6 to 80 pF:
(http://www.segor.de/bilder/0000141b.jpg)

In the loop back of the inverter I have a 100 Ohm resistor.

Then I tried to replace the 100 Ohm resistor with a 100 Ohm pot and
75 Ohm resistor in series, everytime I touched the pot it
changed the frequency dramatically, so I am better with the fixed
100 Ohm resistor and the trim caps.

Maybe I should buy better equipment to get myself a better
function generator.
I will see, what I can find on Ebay Germany.
Or maybe I will hack my old function generator to queeze a few more Mhz out
of it... I will see..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 03, 2007, 09:36:08 PM
Dr. Stiffler has just updated his website with
a higher power incand. bulb output experiment.

Have a look at his new scopeshots.

Reminds me a lot at the scopeshots that Roberto und Otto
got  in their TPU research...

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 01:38:46 AM
Dr. Stiffler has just updated his website with
a higher power incand. bulb output experiment.

Have a look at his new scopeshots.

Reminds me a lot at the scopeshots that Roberto und Otto
got  in their TPU research...

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp


Regards, Stefan.
Good evening Stefan, Dr. Stiffler and all,

Well messing around this evening some more and some interesting results but first, I don't see the schematic of the High Power Unit on the web page, it is pretty straightforward but seems to be missing.

Second, I show a schematic of where I am right now.  Notice CX (C2) this provides positive regenerative feedback and when the circuit is tuned dead on, significant more output in my unit.  I only offer it for reference.  You can see that with C-1 now, I can peak the L/C circuit to match the L2/L3/Cx circuit.  This is just a start to see if my idea worked.......CX is .047uf mylar in my case.  I have no idea if that is optimal.  Just something to think about while I wait for good coils to come in.

Oh, Stefan, I heartly recomment you get a good Sig generator of at least 20 Mhz and probably from what I see on the scope shots from Dr. S, 50 Mhz!.  Your circuit is great but you need a GOOD TUNABLE device it sure makes life easier!
Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 02:55:45 AM
Hi Ben,
interesting feedback.

Will try it tommorow.
I have to go earlier to bed now in the next days, so I just don?t live at nights only... ;D

What about this function generator ?

You can buy it as a kit for a built kit ready to go.

http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325

But it only goes to 20 Mhz.

Maybe Ron can tell us, what the highest frequency is, that is required ?

But I will also have a look at ebay.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 06:12:19 AM
Hi Ben,
interesting feedback.

Will try it tommorow.
I have to go earlier to bed now in the next days, so I just don?t live at nights only... ;D

What about this function generator ?

You can buy it as a kit for a built kit ready to go.

http://www.elv.de/output/controller.aspx?cid=74&detail=10&detail2=6325

But it only goes to 20 Mhz.

Maybe Ron can tell us, what the highest frequency is, that is required ?

But I will also have a look at ebay.

Regards, Stefan.
Hi Stefan,

I know what you mean about sleep.  It is 1:09 A.M.  I have spent the last 7 hours humped over a scope and trying to better understand this circuit.  It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.  It appears that it has to be a potential fed circuit and not a current fed circuit.  Everything seems to depend on it having the least switching current @ the highest potential into the open ended device whereupon output potential is converted into current via the AV plug. The LC circuit basically takes the low impedance of the sig. gen and converts it to HV RF to drive the BF coil hence the AV plug.

Generator looks good but if you can get a HP, Tecktronic,  B&K, or any good RF sig generator that has a good power supply and well shielded would be better in the long run.

If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed but I suspect that procedure is faulted.  If you keep the impedance/resistance low in the input circuit, drive with pure potential switching back and forth power flows via the longitudinal potential only waves.  I'm up to about .166 Watt output now, very bright 10 LEDs with virtually no input current (I think) trying to find/buy a RF probe to get a more accurate series of voltages across the circuit.....Hummmmm just had another idea..Going to wait till tomorrow................Man I'm pooped, tired...... going to sleep on it......I'm gone to bed.

73's

Ben K4ZEP

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on November 04, 2007, 07:50:33 AM
If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed

Raising the input resistance is one of the best ways to measure input characteristics in dificult to measure circuits... you keep raising the input resistance untill the output drops to 50% -- this tells you the input impedance of the circuit.

If the circuit was running in a potential only drive mode then you could raise the input impedance a long way -- to say M ohms or at least 100's K ohms, before the output dropped to 50%. The fact that you cant raise the input impedance much indicates that the circuit really requires a significant current to drive it...  This makes sense as it appears to be a seris LC resonant circuit which will give high voltage rise but needs a very low impedance to drive it. You could think of it as a low to high impedance matching network -- this is a great way to generate high voltages from low voltage (current mostly) drive without a transformer. Voltage gains are only limited by the impedance ratio and the Q. Google "impedance matching network" for more information.

mark.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 04, 2007, 02:04:06 PM
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 04, 2007, 03:32:13 PM
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 04, 2007, 03:44:24 PM
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?

It's a reasonable question and directed toward making it possible for people to replicate the circuit. If you really want to give this to the world, why don't you publish enough detail to enable people to replicate it?

I'm not asking the experimenters to waste time on my questions, I'm asking you, the only person who knows exactly what your circuit consists of, to give the experimenters the information they need to replicate it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 03:53:43 PM
Good Morning Dr. Snoswell,

The problem with being older is not what you remember but what you forget.  I forgot the simple test of increasing non inductive resistance in an input RF circuit till output drops to 50% as the simple test for impedance!!!!!

To make a long story short, but after a heck of a lot of test as it takes time to figure out how to work with this circuit, I find that the imput impedance of my circuit is very close to 250 ohms.  I will say that I have verified that 2 different ways.

Working @ RF frequencies, the waveform degradation due to working a fundamental and harmonics of wavelengths, the diode drops, the LED drops, all allows multitudes of factors to be taken into account in this circuit when trying to calculate Input Vs. Output.  It would appear that the circuit is still OU but at the mw range, measurements are tedious at best. This circuit can drive you crazy but unless the coil "pings" and puts out the goodies it is no banana!

I'm going to clean up my small workspace now and wait for the good coils to come in, should be in early next week.  I am MOST interested in the dual push pull circuit that works ONLY from a ground lead and self Osc!!!!!  The AV plug doesn't care a darn about what is feeding it, it just pumps away and provides its own loading in there.  IF the BF coil adds to the feedthrough, that is where the gravy is!!!!!

Ben



 
If you put any great amount of resistance into the input circuit to measure current reference to sig. generator ground, it drops out of OU.  Anything higher than a 1 ohm or so in the input side so you can measure voltage on both side referenced to ground will give you unbelievable high pulse current across the resistor and the device is under unity if measurements are to be believed

Raising the input resistance is one of the best ways to measure input characteristics in dificult to measure circuits... you keep raising the input resistance untill the output drops to 50% -- this tells you the input impedance of the circuit.

If the circuit was running in a potential only drive mode then you could raise the input impedance a long way -- to say M ohms or at least 100's K ohms, before the output dropped to 50%. The fact that you cant raise the input impedance much indicates that the circuit really requires a significant current to drive it...  This makes sense as it appears to be a seris LC resonant circuit which will give high voltage rise but needs a very low impedance to drive it. You could think of it as a low to high impedance matching network -- this is a great way to generate high voltages from low voltage (current mostly) drive without a transformer. Voltage gains are only limited by the impedance ratio and the Q. Google "impedance matching network" for more information.

mark.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 04, 2007, 03:54:38 PM
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

He has published complete specs.  What you have here is a bunch of people not doing exactly what he said.  You don't really expect him to write more detail that people don't follow, do you?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 04, 2007, 03:54:53 PM
It would be nice if Dr. Stiffler could give us a one paragraph take on the basic theory of how it works.

I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

Quote from: RStiffler on November 02, 2007, 01:10:15 PM

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

And you ARE? The untimate authority fro all and keeper of the faith.

If you were able to read a schematic and a parts list, duplicate as stated (exact) then even you could build one.



















Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

Gee, back to try again, and here we thought you were a man that stood behind his word. Guess not?

It's a reasonable question and directed toward making it possible for people to replicate the circuit. If you really want to give this to the world, why don't you publish enough detail to enable people to replicate it?

I'm not asking the experimenters to waste time on my questions, I'm asking you, the only person who knows exactly what your circuit consists of, to give the experimenters the information they need to replicate it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 04, 2007, 04:05:31 PM
I was wondering that myself. In fact, why doesn't Dr. Stiffler publish complete specs on how to construct the device, since he has said he wants to give it to the world.

It would save people from wasting time guessing about one thing and another trying to replicate the device.

He has published complete specs.  What you have here is a bunch of people not doing exactly what he said.  You don't really expect him to write more detail that people don't follow, do you?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy


If that's true, then it is the incompetence of the experimenters that we are seeing. But I have the impression that these are knowledgeable people, who can build a device from good specs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on November 04, 2007, 04:10:15 PM
And many of them are! calm down and watch.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 04:47:28 PM
And many of them are! calm down and watch.
Hi All,

I agree.  Don't get in a tizzy and don't anyone put out any "Wedggies".  There are OBVIOUSLY a lot of good well versed folk out there.  I can't say how much good input and theoretical help I have received from several people.  Calculating the basic free air input impedance/resistance is a big help in understand this VERY strange circuit.  I have played with many circuits over the years and this ones beats all.

It is strange because the AV plug does neat things in thin air that are reflected back on the input.  Knowing the input voltage, resistance and hence current really enables you to make some fairly good calculations in some respect.  Every few min I work with this, better ways to calculate and use the circuit comes up.  I stopped and cleaned up my 2X4 Shop and had an new idea. 

It seems the more you isolate the whole circuit, remove parasitic capacitance, the more efficient it becomes.  Dr. Stiffler mentioned that to me in one of his post.  IT IS VERY IMPORTANT.  I have now chopped off both of my leads that are not used in the BF coil and placed coil up on wood block away from plate capacitance of backplain.  Another strange thing, it seems the output of the AV plug is a constant current source till you exceed the max peak voltage put out by the large coil on the BF core.  Dead shorted I can get 25 ma out of the AV plug.......IF you look back at the input of 22V @ 250 ohms,, funny numbers...........I still don't know if you take the theoretical input power and always use that power IN from gen in your calculations of the output.  Depending on my loading, I get a COP of from 4 to about 10 to one.  Again, loading of a AV plug is a curious thing.  It just is unsettling.?

Sure could use some theoretical help here.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 06:04:03 PM
Ben,
You may know this already but this is another way to measure input impedance (see attachment):

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 06:38:33 PM
Ben,
Equations are wrong. Please ignore my last post. I will try to fix them.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 07:15:25 PM
Ben,
Well, I thought I saw a mistake, but they seem to be OK. You should probably check for yourself to be sure. It has been a while since I have done this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 07:53:04 PM
There IS a basic resonance frequency for the BF coil/CORE device.  That is where its output is!  I now suspect that the input L/C circuit must match that frequency for maximum output.  ... I'm going to put a variable cap. to replace the 400 pf I have in there right now, give or take and see if this "theory" is correct.

The fundamental resonance appears to come from the inductance of the secondary and the junction capacitance of the IN4148 diodes. I have attached the datasheet here. The secondary sees a complex capacitance from the two AP diodes -- however even a sinple LC resonance calculation shows that the figures agree pretty well. Here is a link to a good LC resonance calculator http://www.pronine.ca/lcf.htm.  If you want to tune further then set up a resonator on the primary side for the same frequency...

You could try to tune the two just out of phase -- this will result in the power beating between the input and output -- exactly the same as in good tesla coil design. This may work better than exact tuning as the total power transfered wont be any less but the higher voltages at the AP may reduce losses in power transfer there. It's hard to predict and the tight coupling of the primary and secondary may limit this aproach.

Whatever you do -- tuning the primary side to the same frequency will certainty reduce losses in the AP and inprove power transfer.

cheers

mark.
 

Hi Mark,
many thanks for posting the 1N4148 spec PDF file.
I didn?t know, that they are this fast( about 4 ns switch time), I thought
they would be as slow as a normal 1N4007...

I have at my  Avramenko Plug LED just DC voltage behind the
1 x 1N4148 diodes.

Ben, how much voltage do you have there with your  design,
when you draw 25 milliamps ?

What is the maximum power output you can draw from the
AP via a constant load resistor ?
Many thanks.

P.S: Dr.Stiffler has so far put great effort in documenting the circuits
and effects, so bear with him,if he did not yet publish all.
It really takes times to document it all and we arenow still in the
phase to find the right parameters,so documentation comes at the
last step..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 07:55:14 PM
Here is  an interesting 20  Mhz function generator
with all circuit board PCB layout and all you need to know
to build it with the MAX038 IC.

If you squeeze it it can also go up to about 25 to 30Mhz the author
said...


http://alternatezone.com/electronics/hsfg.htm


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 08:00:36 PM
Ben,
I suspect that L1 adds enough inductance to force the impedance looking into it to be inductive. Then C1 cancels the inductive reactance so that the impedance looking into C1 is pure real at resonance. This allows more power from generator to be used since all of the voltage is going across a real impedance. I no longer have a lab so I can not check this myself.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 09:24:30 PM
Hi Gang,

This is getting deep fast!  Got to do some thinking.  Right now I'm hitting a wall on the device.  Too bad I had to get rid of my lifetime of reference material when I moved to the condo in FL.  Now I have to use NET as reference source.  Sometimes knowing what to ask is as hard as measuring it.

Output is pretty easy to measure across the low impedance of the AV plug/LED/Cap device, Input is a BITCH!  There is series Inductive and capacitive reactance and the resultant phase shift or lack of it!  Then there is the actual waveform @ the input. Then too, what do you use as the common to keep it real!  Does it all reflect back across the L & C reluctance too and Through the generator to ground or the parasitic capacitance to ground.  I haven't worried about complex nodal RF circuits in 40-45 years. .Probably easiest way would be to build a good simple unity FET RF driver with good isolation and decoupling and measure pure DC power into it like Dr. Stiffler does......Arrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggg. Charley Brown.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 09:32:08 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 09:33:05 PM
Ben,
I suspect that L1 adds enough inductance to force the impedance looking into it to be inductive. Then C1 cancels the inductive reactance so that the impedance looking into C1 is pure real at resonance. This allows more power from generator to be used since all of the voltage is going across a real impedance. I no longer have a lab so I can not check this myself.
That is very logical and basically the way I look at it. How do you show the return path for the RF?????  Logically and to the core that is what bugs me more than anything!  I realize @ 7-10 MHz, capacitive reactance builds up fast and might be the return path for all the parasitic elements in the circuit.   Current peaks and voltage dips @ resonance around the input.  It always boils down to the fine points.  For my self who is more of a puttering builder, (darn it, this is JUST a hobby) I have always disliked the documenting of devices like this!  But then there comes a time like this........

Ben..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 10:03:01 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:

Great jumping Jehoshaphat...I have been worrying about a return ground, latest schematic shows everything with a common ground!  Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't,  I.............do.................sheeesssssssh...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 04, 2007, 10:03:05 PM
Ben,
I would think that the best place to use for a return would be the generator ground return since the impedance the generator output sees is referenced to that point and you are trying to determine how much power is coming out of the generator (what load it sees).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 10:05:00 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:


The 555 is is not a good chip for this.  But either way, glad to see the func-gen gone.  I asked before and saw clearly Dr. S said no func-gen and all the post I hear about the freq from the func-gen.

The VCC and ground on the circuit can tell what power is put in and the Rl can tell output power.

I would still check it with a scope.  Also, 20Mhz?  That is a 555 timer, it ain't going there?  Maybe a new one is out that I have not heard about (but they have not done anything with that hobby timer chip for years)?

Last, the N-channel FETs are not a problem, or the Q's. but again confused on the 2 coils (with or without a core), with no values (rough ones posted if I read or have Ebay) and still I see that L3 in there..  Are there values for them?  Is the L3 a choke or something thrown in?  Like the first version or starting points?

I have not and will not build it until there are clear specs (and yes I have these parts and the same proto board). 

But looks like it is getting closer.  Will pop in soon and see where all are.

Ben, where in Florida PM me.

555 for the 1Hz. discharge, I'm In St. Petersburg, FL

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 04, 2007, 10:11:45 PM
Yes, the Rload in his circuit is his incand. bulb that is energized
every second once, when the cap is full via the 555  chip 1 Hz generator.

Hmm, Ben, do you also get at your AP LED a DC voltage, when you don?t have
a cap there ?

Normally I would have expected a pulsed DC, but I have a pure DC without a cap there,
just looked with the scope only directly at the LED...
Hmm..radio frequency circuits are really strange sometimes..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 11:31:16 PM
Yes, the Rload in his circuit is his incand. bulb that is energized
every second once, when the cap is full via the 555  chip 1 Hz generator.

Hmm, Ben, do you also get at your AP LED a DC voltage, when you don?t have
a cap there ?Yes I do, enough parasitic cap. @ 10 MHz to integrate the pulsations.  Cap will also charge up if you replace the LED's with it.  Just watch out, voltage can get pretty high on it.  Mine goes above 100VDC in several seconds.  Dr. Stiffler's must be a barn burner to charge over 600uf to 120V in 1 second!!!

Normally I would have expected a pulsed DC, but I have a pure DC without a cap there,
just looked with the scope only directly at the LED...
Hmm..radio frequency circuits are really strange sometimes..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 04, 2007, 11:33:51 PM
So a 555 with nothing on the threshold, discharge and trigger runs at 1hz?  News to me.  But I do not use them a lot.That part missing but standard pots and cap.  Short on time. (Inverted)

The the other side of the circuit is the osc. OK.   

It does not matter still as VCC and ground you can see the input current and Rload the output.  And no telling what that 555 will do floating like that.  Circuit imcomplete, look at photos, you will see what is missing.

This is a long way away from the first couple circuits, but still listening..  Just glad there is no function generator hooked to it.

At least now it is getting to a point where I can build one, after I see more components on the 555 :)  Still like to see values on the schematic for L1/L2/L3 as well.  I have to antique radios (AM only before FM) that I do not need. 

And Stefan said it worked as well without the core.  This still the case? I have not pulled them out :)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 05, 2007, 01:57:55 AM
So a 555 with nothing on the threshold, discharge and trigger runs at 1hz?  News to me.  But I do not use them a lot.

The the other side of the circuit is the osc. OK.   

It does not matter still as VCC and ground you can see the input current and Rload the output.  And no telling what that 555 will do floating like that.

This is a long way away from the first couple circuits, but still listening..  Just glad there is no function generator hooked to it.

At least now it is getting to a point where I can build one, after I see more components on the 555 :)  Still like to see values on the schematic for L1/L2/L3 as well.  I have to antique radios (AM only before FM) that I do not need. 

And Stefan said it worked as well without the core.  This still the case? I have not pulled them out :)

Really! If you need help in making a 555 pulse 50% duty cycle, 2 R's and one capacitor. Please don't waste your time with my circuits, this is the simplest part of any of them.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: smoky on November 05, 2007, 02:14:46 AM
In Dr Stifflers circuit above the Emitter seems to be shorted to the Base divider network. 
It looks like a Colpits oscillator so I guess it shoud be open at this point?
Smoky
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 05, 2007, 09:10:21 AM
@Ron,
Is L1 (2.2u)  air core?

Regards, AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 05, 2007, 09:53:07 AM
If someone want understand, I share my equations investigation:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html)

Every coil has self-transforming properties. Frequency generator on one end will give high voltage on the other. This is main principle for Tesla's 3-th coil voltage amplifier (magnify coil). It don't need closed loop circuit.

Important is knowledge about splitting frequency in two (one of them can become very high, if k is near 1):
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html)

Dr. Steffler has build interesting things. Maybe he has k near 1 (because of core), and strange effect, when f2=f/sqrt(1-k) go to infinite.
Maybe in nature 'infinite' mean something  new.

I have some strange effect with my work:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html)

Generator for excitement can be HF bulb, with Al-foil around bulb (without touch, only around).

I think that this device will became better if put another 2 diodes and capacity with plate in the air. Air has free electrons and ions, and cosmic rays are charge them with energy.
Ground is good, but it need plate in air too, for collecting that air energy (LED diodes has some low surface, and some capacity too).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 05, 2007, 10:10:01 AM
@Ron,
Is L1 (2.2u)  air core?

Regards, AM

Looks like it in the pictures. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 05, 2007, 10:13:46 AM
If someone want understand, I share my equations investigation:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07d.html)

Every coil has self-transforming properties. Frequency generator on one end will give high voltage on the other. This is main principle for Tesla's 3-th coil voltage amplifier (magnify coil). It don't need closed loop circuit.

Important is knowledge about splitting frequency in two (one of them can become very high, if k is near 1):
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/07g.html)

Dr. Steffler has build interesting things. Maybe he has k near 1 (because of core), and strange effect, when f2=f/sqrt(1-k) go to infinite.
Maybe in nature 'infinite' mean something  new.

I have some strange effect with my work:
http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02f.html)

Generator for excitement can be HF bulb, with Al-foil around bulb (without touch, only around).

I think that this device will became better if put another 2 diodes and capacity with plate in the air. Air has free electrons and ions, and cosmic rays are charge them with energy.
Ground is good, but it need plate in air too, for collecting that air energy (LED diodes has some low surface, and some capacity too).

Dr. Stifflers most challanging circuit is the double push pull working ONLY from the ground.  By your math, it appears you have really looked into the Tesla devices!  Most excellent and glad to see your post.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 05, 2007, 11:29:21 AM
k4zep,

Yes, I am most interesting in 2 core + ground part of Dr. Stiffler work, too.
If it can work, just put capacity with 2 diodes more, and discharge this capacity in some interval, it will be good for collecting that energy. It will become new source of energy for charging battery (hybrid car...). 4 diodes and capacity can collect energy, and with interval of discharging can control output voltage (I easy come to 40 V with standard HF bulb, and foil around, with 1 m2 plate). I am interesting in making light, but I am more interesting in making energy.
Nikola Tesla has mechanical rectifier (and no barriers problem for collecting energy) , and this is his approach.
Put all this stuff together ( if they work ) we will have usable energy source.

Tesla was found some new energy source too:

"I have harnessed the cosmic rays and caused them to operate a motive device. Cosmic ray investigation is a subject that is very close to me. I was the first to discover these rays and I naturally feel toward them as I would toward my own flesh and blood. I have advanced a theory of the cosmic rays and at every step of my investigations I have found it completely justified. The attractive features of the cosmic rays is their constancy. They shower down on us throughout the whole 24 hours, and if a plant is developed to use their power it will not require devices for storing energy as would be necessary with devices using wind, tide or sunlight. All of my investigations seem to point to the conclusion that they are small particles, each carrying so small a charge that we are justified in calling them neutrons. They move with great velocity, exceeding that of light. More than 25 years ago I began my efforts to harness the cosmic rays and I can now state that I have succeeded in operating a motive device by means of them. I will tell you in the most general way, the cosmic ray ionizes the air, setting free many charges ions and electrons. These charges are captured in a condenser which is made to discharge through the circuit of the motor. I have hopes of building my motor on a large scale, but circumstances have not been favorable to carrying out my plan." ( Brooklyn Eagle July 10, 1932. )
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on November 05, 2007, 01:30:52 PM
In Dr Stifflers circuit above the Emitter seems to be shorted to the Base divider network. 
It looks like a Colpits oscillator so I guess it shoud be open at this point?
Smoky


Yes, you are right. There should not be wire connection between emitter and base in that schematics, it is obviously a misprint.

There is another version of  the Colpitts oscillator where the capacitive divider (C1 and C2) is placed between the base (or gate in case of FET) and the common ground and in that case the connection from the emitter (or source in case of a FET) to the middle point of the capacitive divider is justified,  see like here:
http://n-old.ethz.ch/student/rodonil/da/bericht/node28.html

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 05:40:55 AM
I am getting now also about 20 Volts p-p behind L1. But then the AP LED is brightest, when I dont use L2 and  L3 at all. Just from the oscillator via  470 pF and 2.2 uH to the AP.
Then from one Pin of the LED to a iron metal plate gives me the brighest LED so far. More in about 10 hours.
Now to sleep.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 03:14:09 PM
Okay,
I made some new test today.

I just don?t have the right cores.

I asked Dr. Stiffler, if he would sell me a "working" coil-core
combination, but as he has got only 5 working core-coil combinations,
he declined saying that he still needs them for verification
with other parties involved.
I can fully understand this.
I will now try to buy some core-coils via Ebay.

I am now at around 27 Mhz working frequency
and the higher you go it seems to be getting better with the
Avramenko plug with my 2 x 1N4148 diodes.
At least for me 27 Mhz was better than around 10 Mhz.
The LEDs are just brighter.

Okay, I tried various setups but always the combination of capacitor
and 2.2 uH coil at the output before going into the AP was the best setup.
All the ferrite cores I had and also some ferrite magnets did not give better
brightness.
I now chained 10 blue LED diodes in series in the AP.
One pin of the AP is connected to power supply PLUS voltage
and then the circuit draws around 25 mA at 12 Volts, that gives about 300 milliWatts draw
from my powersupply.

When I remove the AP from the circuit , the circuit draws 17 mA, which is about 200 milliWatts.

I can light up these 10 LEDs pretty bright with the difference power of 100 milliWatts,
but if this is overunity, I can not really say yet...

Have a look at it yourself. Here are 3 picture, 2 with the AP running the 10 LEDs
and once the AP disconnected...

As this circuit is so high frequency, all cables length already matter.
When I connect the 2.2 uH coil directly on the breadboard without these green
cables, the AP does not light at all !
So it really depens on some cables between it and probably on electromagnetic radiation
and standing waves...

I just don?t have the right equipment to measure these RF currents correctly, so
all measurements at this level must be taken not too seriously...

Also the breadboard itsself with all the capacitances between the rows and contacts
surely change the circuit into very much capacitively coupled things...
So as long as Dr. Stiffler still uses his breadboard with his aluplate in the
background there is this huge aluplate capacitance, that really matters at these
frequencies !

These RF circuits are no joy for audio frequency engineers !
 ::)

Well, I will stop now with this circuit, as long as I don?t have a core-coil
combination that seems to give me any gain...
I did not see any gain in my core-coil combinations so far.

Also the lighting of the neon bulb with one of my aircore coils in my earlier tests
had not had any big output, this was probably only from the right frequency
to excite the neon gas inside the bulb and was probably just a few milliWatts
of power there. Also it did not hurt me, when touching it...
So all in all, this Avramenko Plug technology is interesting but I could
not yet get any power amplification from it, as I don?t have the right cores...

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 03:24:24 PM
P.S: The first 2 pics had the same LED brightness, butI held the
camera in a different angle, so in the second picture the LEDs
just seem brighter, as they were more in direct line with the camera.

The meter you see is set on the 50 mA DC scale and was hooked into
the positive supply line ofthe 12 Volts power supply with a cap across the leads,
so it did register just the DC amps.

In the 2 upper pics you can see the current of about 25 mA
in the last pic, when I removed the cap( so the AP was connected anymore)
the oscillator circuit just drawed about 17 mA.
Then the oscillator was just idle running at around 27 Mhz with no output
connected.

If you have some questions just ask.

What I also saw is, that the input power did rise more,if I did
connect one pin of the AP to the external iron plate instead
of the positive pole ofthe power supply,so
it seems in this case the RF power is just better transmitted away and
so the circuit draws more input power.
So connecting one pin of the LED chain to +12 Volt or the ground of the
circuit just worked best as this draws only 25 mA, in the other case
it drew about 40 mA !
Just running the AP without the connection to 12 Volts or ground did not work
in my case.. only, when I had the AP off board, so all the cables were between it..

You see, these RF frequencies are nasty to work with...so many dependences
from capacitance and cable inductancs...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 04:50:26 PM
Well,
I ordered now 10 pieces of 680 uH ferrite antenna:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150089628196

and
10 pieces of 470 uH antenna ferrite sticks:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150178895066


Hopefully I will soon get it via airmail and then I will
continue with this project.

Until then I will try other circuits.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 06, 2007, 08:22:58 PM
Everyone is so interested in getting to the end with just the two coils and ground so I have included a picture for thos that have the single coil circuit working. This would be the next step towards the dual coil system.

You need to perfectly match to single coil systems so that their response peaks match. When done you can drive one from your generator hot and one from ground as shown in the photo. The SEC zone extends some 3 meters. There is not much to explain here if you have the basic one coil working, make another and adjust one or the other to where they have the same energy peaks, then drive one from earth ground.

This is not simple induction between the coils, remember three meters away connected only to ground!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on November 06, 2007, 10:05:56 PM
R Stiffler

have you noticed the extropy in the system? and its mirror oposite entropy? you are leading people down an interesting path I think will be most interesting when people realize it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 06, 2007, 10:06:07 PM
Dear Ron,
looks nice,
but please try to build up your circuit
not anymore onto your experimentation breadboard.

These capacitances at these frequencies just have a major impact
and also the backplate aluplate...

What frequency did you use in this last test ?

Here are some more measurements from my latest setup:

oscillator Frequency : around 27 Mhz
Input Voltage : 12.5 Volts DC
Input DC current : 25 milliAmps

Input power: 312.5 milliWatts

DC Voltage at 10 LED stack: 31 Volts
DC current through 10 LED stack: 2 milliAmps

output power at the LEDs: 62 milliWatts

Without LED-AP load just feeding the oscillator at 27 Mhz:
Input Voltage : 12.7 Volts DC
Input DC current : 17 milliAmps

Input power: 215.9 milliWatts
So you see, although the brightness of the LED seems pretty bright,
they just only need around 62 milliWatts of power.

So you see, when we connect the LED load via the Avramenko plug
we raise the input power by 96.6 milliWatts
and get only 62 milliWatts of light power out there.
The rest is probably radiated away.
So I am still underunity with my circuit, although the LEDs
look pretty bright for this small 62 milliWatts of power...

So I just paid the cores to the Ebay seller and will now wait to
receive them.
Now back to some other circuits.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 08, 2007, 09:10:20 AM
R Stiffler

have you noticed the extropy in the system? and its mirror oposite entropy? you are leading people down an interesting path I think will be most interesting when people realize it.

Only time will tell .. cant wait for the grand finale video myself :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 08, 2007, 01:58:52 PM
I would like to see if this work or not...
If work in "generator in input" form, I know why.
If work in "2 core, without generator input" form, I would like to know source from ground.
In Tesla's patent ( 787 412 ), where he talk about 'standing waves', he was mention thunders storm waves (25-70 km from max to min point of wave).
Tesla's energy transmitter and receiver is easy for understanding (to me).

If this Stiffler's device work or not, I know that in ground we have energy in some form.
In Tesla's receiver we need two plates in the ground on some distance, and "no barrier" rectifier.
In 25 - 70 km wave form, we have lot of thunders waves energy (with lot of frequency form). Tesla was measure that form of energy.

White diodes is easy to light-on. 3 AAA type battery could work with 3 diodes around 100 hours (you can by it everywhere) .
It is easy to light-on 50 diodes, with 1.5 V converter and with 1 AAA battery, and have full light around 2 hours.

We will see...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 09, 2007, 05:12:56 AM
It appears that this discussion has been moved to google groups, at least I can conclude that from Dr. Stiffler's page.

Sadly the group is by invitation only and no mention how ones gets invited in (I presume I can't self invite myself, can I? :P )
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 09, 2007, 08:45:51 AM
I can not access his google groups yet.

Has nobody got some comments to my last postings ?

Hi Ben, what are your latest results ?

How do you measure  your output versus input power ?

I am still waiting for the cores to come in.
They are already shipped via airmail, but it still can take
a few days to go through customs until they will be here.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 09, 2007, 12:18:35 PM
Also I have asked for 3 spar in ferrite, 10 days have almost passed, but I have not received anything.
Here in Italy the post service and custom doesn't work very well... :-\, therefore it needs to have patience.

I have tried to subscrive me in the group:
http://groups.google.com / group / stiffler-replication
But, for now, my registration has not been approved. be a true sin!

@Stiffler
Hi Stiffler, can subscribe me in your forum on Google? I would be honorable of it.

@All
Are there experimenters that can describe their progress?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 09, 2007, 08:42:45 PM
I can not access his google groups yet.

Has nobody got some comments to my last postings ?

Hi Ben, what are your latest results ?

Measure input current via conventional iron vane ma meter in series with circuit.  Output is simply current and voltage.  Results are very encouraging and circuit development is coming along.  IT takes a LOT of knowledge to do this right as my circuit base frequency is around 9/18/ 27 MHz.  It will drive a DVM to false readings which makes it almost useless with these circuits.


How do you measure your output versus input power ?  See above.

I am still waiting for the cores to come in.  I got 10 of the 600+uh off Ebay and they work great.


They are already shipped via airmail, but it still can take
a few days to go through customs until they will be here.

You will like the results.  Strive for a high output stable Osc, square wave out.......Picture of my latest unit.  1 Watt in. Totally experimental circuit. Osc. is designed by a friend, Ossie in AU. Oddball Osc, works like a champ.   Lots of things become clear as you work with it.  I have spend at least 150 hours working on this thing so far (talk about a crick in the neck!), not nearly there yet for a high power unit. I have been liberating silicon smoke, getting burned with RF, making a mess in my shop but I'm starting to get a handle on it.  Just for reference, each AV plug can put out about 14.5 ma @ 12 V in this circuit. (known value from charging battery) With Neon, voltage/current is different. Input does not change with this load!  

More to come from Dr. Stiffler when he feels he is ready, I'm just the experimenter and this is for fun.  For him, this is damn serious..  He is the father and it is his baby.

Respectfully

Ben K4ZEP

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on November 09, 2007, 10:11:15 PM
@Ben,

What do you think of using this theory on the TPU? Well if this is how it is happening then maybe it wouldn't really be a TPU would it?

Thinking out loud here now, instead of using the ferrite what about a bundle of wire for the core?, multiple segments for the transformers (four of them, maybe even 3) using a simple blocking Osc or similar, maybe even a 555 using a Tip33 for the driver. L1 could be a small torrid coil. Maybe use a strong neo to provide saturation to the core material.

Now take 3 or 4 AV plugs and use them to pulse charge a large cap that has a voltage rating of say 200vdc, then try to power a bulb after a bit of a wind up.

What do you think??

Just a my mind wandering.... humm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 10, 2007, 01:25:39 AM
I have opened up some additional information on the coils and how to do some measurements.

www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 10, 2007, 02:24:03 AM
NOTICE:

I am now posting information on my web site from associate researchers working with me on the advanced development of the SEC devices.

These researchers have given 'me' permission to post some of their work on my site and as a result all Copyrights will now be enforced. Anyone copying information from my site and making it available on any other site, list, group or news service is prohibited.

The only way this can now be legally done is to get the express permission of the specific researcher that the information originated from.

Please be sure to follow these rules, we must enforce them in order to protect the property of our associate inventors and researchers.

Thank You..

Dr. Ronald Stiffler
Stiffler Scientific
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 10, 2007, 03:05:51 AM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 10, 2007, 03:15:36 AM
Interesting developments, sadly I've been so busy at work this past week that my spare time at home is spent mostly resting.

Perhaps I can get something done over the weekend and will report here...

@HopeForHumanity

start of the end of what?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 10, 2007, 03:26:13 AM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\

Your wrong!

Its the beginning.

Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.

I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.

The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.

Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 10, 2007, 03:26:32 AM
@Ben,

What do you think of using this theory on the TPU? Well if this is how it is happening then maybe it wouldn't really be a TPU would it?

Thinking out loud here now, instead of using the ferrite what about a bundle of wire for the core?, multiple segments for the transformers (four of them, maybe even 3) using a simple blocking Osc or similar, maybe even a 555 using a Tip33 for the driver. L1 could be a small torrid coil. Maybe use a strong neo to provide saturation to the core material.

Now take 3 or 4 AV plugs and use them to pulse charge a large cap that has a voltage rating of say 200vdc, then try to power a bulb after a bit of a wind up.

What do you think??

Just a my mind wandering.... humm
Let the old noggin wander, what your purpose is good for about a week of testing.  Go for it!!!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 10, 2007, 03:37:51 AM
Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.

I'd buy one.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 10, 2007, 04:05:17 AM
Yep, Kneedeep kneedeep,

I'd buy one too!  :D

The Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 10, 2007, 06:37:58 AM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\

Your wrong!

Its the beginning.

Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.

I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.

The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.

Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.

And would I be wrong in supposing that any violations of this new law would bring about the withdrawal of informations from your site ... :O .. please say it isn't so !!!

edited :
I meant to say, that posting information on the internet where sharing and replication of information is the expected if not accepted norm and then asking the millions of people to not do a standard practice is almost certain to fail, copyright clause or none. Seems to be weighted to a certain outcome in my humble opinion. Though I do respect owners and their rights.

Aside from that ...
ummm .. here goes .. HOW much is FREE energy going to cost us Doc?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 10, 2007, 08:28:36 AM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\

Your wrong!

Its the beginning.

Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.

I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.

The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.

Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.

I don't think it's going to be as simple as this... You've got yourself into a big complex thing, and I don't think it will be as easy as you think.

My point is that there is a dark side to those kinds of restrictions. Don't let anyone scare you into thinking that you must control every piece of information you have. IMO it would be better to have a few buggy versions than no versions at all. Look at all the other open source inventions and programs out there. Study how they became succesful without having to restrict or control their information.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler ... Closing the loop!
Post by: derricka on November 10, 2007, 10:55:43 AM
Ron sure knows how to build the suspense for his yet unreleased "closing the loop with a small solar panel" video. I have some thoughts on this regarding efficiency.  A typical white LED is about 27 percent efficient in terms of converting electrical energy into light energy, and a typical  commercially available polycrystalline or crystalline solar panel, about 10 to 20 percent efficient.  Assuming Ron is able to efficiently couple the light from LED's to solar panel he will be lucky to recover an efficiency of 2.7 to 5.4 percent. (My guess is that 1 to 2 percent would be more realistic.)  If Ron is able to pull this off, it would be a most impressive demonstration, as it means he is not only winning the fight, but winning with over 9 out 10 fingers tied behind his back!  Of course, to really impress us, the solar panel would feed a capacitor and not a battery, and all other significant light sources turned off or blocked, so as not to feed the solar panel.   Anyway, even if it turns out the solar panel dosn't provide enough power to close the loop, perhaps the loop can be closed with a couple of ceramic capacitors feeding a full wave bridge etc. perhaps trading the nice isolation provided by the solar panel, for higher efficiency.  Finally, I am thinking about designing an experimental circuit board, that anyone could download the data file for, and have made online, or make themselves.  (This would be for experimental, non commercial use only and layout copyright would go to Dr. Stiffler). Let me know if you are interested or have any thoughts on this, like where to put extra capacitance etc.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 10, 2007, 11:06:06 AM
I have opened up some additional information on the coils and how to do some measurements.

www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp

Many thanks Ron for this extra pagewith this very well
done measurements.

By the way, that do you mean by
Coil response on the X-Axis at figure 10 there ?

If I will not get any amplificationb myself,when my cores
arrive, sign me up also for the 1 Watt device.

Seems you are heading to win the OverUnity prize,
when you break the 50 Watts barrier !  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 10, 2007, 11:23:22 AM
Hi Ben,
nice to see your picture now with the 30 neon bulbs.

Can you tell us more about this ?

Did you also get the core from this Ebay seller
Mr. Lowe from Middletown, OH 45044 ?

Do you now see much more amplification with it ?

How much power did you put in there to drive
the 30 neon bulbs and at what frequency ?

What is you voltage p-p to drive this from your signal generator ?

Can you , if you hit the resonance frequency of the core
lower in the input signal generator  voltage , without the neon bulbs
reducing their brightness ?
If yes, to what level ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 10, 2007, 03:26:20 PM
omg.... great.... the start of the end??? :-\

Your wrong!

Its the beginning.

Many researchers have invested hundreds of hours in this research and all they are asking is that their work be controlled in one place. Nothing is stopping people from talking or working with us all. The resource must be controlled or people will have various versions, buggy versions or obsolete versions. By maintaining information in one place means you will be able to obtain the latest and best information in a timely way.

I see no reason why this should close anything off to the public. We hope to release information as soon as it has been confirmed by multiple researchers, this means 'You' don't waste time and spend money going in the wrong direction.

The research has so advanced in the last weeks that 'Many' reputable researchers have confirmed many of the circuit designs to in fact be OU, but the maximum to date from a circuit is 5 watts with around 1 watt input. These circuits are very unstable but getting better by the day.

Stay tuned, if I don't get stoned for the offer, I am considering making 1 watt evaluations units available, built and working and ready for testing. We will see how this will be accepted before it becomes official.

You can count me in for an evaluation unit Dr Stiffler. I have access to a group of RF Engineers where I work. I would love to see their reactions as I demonstrate and guide them through the circuit, then direct them to your site. I think it's a good idea, the working units would be for the most part uniform and will enable spreading the word very easy, as seeing is believing for most people.
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler ... Closing the loop!
Post by: retrod on November 10, 2007, 03:45:58 PM
Ron sure knows how to build the suspense for his yet unreleased "closing the loop with a small solar panel" video. I have some thoughts on this regarding efficiency.  A typical white LED is about 27 percent efficient in terms of converting electrical energy into light energy, and a typical  commercially available polycrystalline or crystalline solar panel, about 10 to 20 percent efficient.  Assuming Ron is able to efficiently couple the light from LED's to solar panel he will be lucky to recover an efficiency of 2.7 to 5.4 percent. (My guess is that 1 to 2 percent would be more realistic.)  If Ron is able to pull this off, it would be a most impressive demonstration, as it means he is not only winning the fight, but winning with over 9 out 10 fingers tied behind his back!  Of course, to really impress us, the solar panel would feed a capacitor and not a battery, and all other significant light sources turned off or blocked, so as not to feed the solar panel.   Anyway, even if it turns out the solar panel dosn't provide enough power to close the loop, perhaps the loop can be closed with a couple of ceramic capacitors feeding a full wave bridge etc. perhaps trading the nice isolation provided by the solar panel, for higher efficiency.  Finally, I am thinking about designing an experimental circuit board, that anyone could download the data file for, and have made online, or make themselves.  (This would be for experimental, non commercial use only and layout copyright would go to Dr. Stiffler). Let me know if you are interested or have any thoughts on this, like where to put extra capacitance etc.
There have been recent breakthroughs in solar cell research. This article mentions efficiency of 42%
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=49483     This of course does not mean a trial sample is readily available but there is hope.

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 01:48:25 AM
Did you all see the Ossi Callanan circuit on :
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

?

Wow
this is pretty bright.
How much power goes into there from the batteries ?

I wonder, why in :

http://67.76.235.52/drstiffler/buildup.asp

the voltage is smallest at the resonance frequency ?
Normally, when you look at firgure 9 circuit diagramm
the voltage must be the highest at resonance,
cause the series LC circuit has the lowest resistance
at resonance and then the 50 ohm resistor gets the
highest voltage.

Maybe he has just measured across the LC circuit ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: callanan on November 11, 2007, 02:21:43 AM
78ma from the 12V battery. Only had 67 LEDs. Estimate the circuit could light up to 200 LEDs.

Ossie

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 11, 2007, 02:50:31 AM
I wonder, why in :

http://67.76.235.52/drstiffler/buildup.asp

the voltage is smallest at the resonance frequency ?

I'm sure the doc will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that L2 and L3 form a resonant transformer, like a telsa coil, and the "Stiffler core" resonance frequency is the frequency at which the oscillating current in L3 is maximal.  The high-voltage oscillations in L3 inductively couple back to L2, where they oppose the generator signal, causing less power to be drawn from the generator and dumped into the load resistor.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 11, 2007, 02:52:18 AM
Wow that's impressive, 67 LEDs look pretty blinding, what happens when you put 200? :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 11, 2007, 03:03:21 AM
Hi Harti
The reason the voltage drops on the test circuit at self resonance is that the measurement circuit  is in SERIES with the coil.  You are correct that the AC voltage across the coil is at maximum, but it is out of phase with the generator, so in this series testing circuit,  you get maximum cancellation at the coils self resonant frequency, and thus the lowest output to the scope. At self-resonance, the capacitor in the LC circuit  doesn't exist physically, but is mostly made up of stray capacitance between the wires in the coil itself.  The reason Ron is measuring this way, is to prevent placing any additional stray capacitance (from scope or measuring equipment) across the coil which would alter the resonant frequency being measured, and cause an incorrect frequency reading.  Dr. Stiffler is obviously familiar with RF measurement techniques. So far, the more of his work I see, the more impressed I am.



PS
 Ossi Callanan's circuit does look bright, the circuit is being fed by 12 volts, so the input signal to the coil is probably a higher voltage than the typical output of a signal generator used in some of the other circuits.  The real question is: What is the RATIO between true RMS input power  and output power?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 11, 2007, 04:14:28 AM
Sorry to be a bother, but does anybody know where to purchase BaFe cores? The original eBay seller doesn't seem to sell them anymore.

If obtaining cores proves to be a problem, does anybody know how I'd go about making my own cores from BaFe powder?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 11, 2007, 05:01:36 AM
Sorry to be a bother, but does anybody know where to purchase BaFe cores? The original eBay seller doesn't seem to sell them anymore.

If obtaining cores proves to be a problem, does anybody know how I'd go about making my own cores from BaFe powder?

680uH cores here (http://stores.ebay.com/Hard-to-find-Electronic-Parts)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 11, 2007, 06:50:55 AM
Hmm, i've seen coils like that around before, but I thought they needed to be Barium Ferrite? If not, I could probably grab some from the local electronic components store. Can anybody confirm those coils working?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 11, 2007, 08:53:54 AM
I am the Ebay Seller that sells the 680uh ferrite coils. They are the ones used Dr. Stiffler as I sold them to him. I logged in to this site to see what all the commotion was about. OU  :o interesting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:16:35 AM
Hi Harti
The reason the voltage drops on the test circuit at self resonance is that the measurement circuit  is in SERIES with the coil. 

Yes,but in the circuit diagram he is showing it being measured across the 50 ohm load resistor.

If the series LC circuit atresonance has about less than 1 Ohm impedance, all
voltage should be at the 50 Ohm resistor, so the voltage should
be maximum at resonance, not lowest... or do I mix something up here ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:18:11 AM
78ma from the 12V battery. Only had 67 LEDs. Estimate the circuit could light up to 200 LEDs.

Ossie



Hi Ossi !
Really well done man !

Great brightness just for 816 milliWatts only !

Let us know how it looks, when you connect 200 LEDs !
I guess I must also go buy a fewmore LEDs soon !  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:19:34 AM
I am the Ebay Seller that sells the 680uh ferrite coils. They are the ones used Dr. Stiffler as I sold them to him. I logged in to this site to see what all the commotion was about. OU  :o interesting.


Many thanks for coming over here.

I hope you don?t sell them now at 100x the initial prize ! ;) ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:25:42 AM
When I remember the MRA circuit
    The Magnetic Resonance Amplifier (MRA)
    By Joel McClain and Norman Wootan

here is a link to it:

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/9201/mranines/mra.html

This must have been something simular.
Watch out ofthe circuit diagram.
It is drawn there a bit wrong as
Joel McClain and Norman Wootan
first claimed to have also only used the positive ONLY of their
signal generator
and later Earthtech tested their device and gound only
underunity, butby then they also used the ground
line of the signal generator and thus did not have a single wire output !

So Earthtech did not understand how to measure it correctly and the Avramenko
plug idea was not born yet, but I wonder, if Joel McClain and Norman Wootan
would now also use the Avramenko plug idea,
what they would get out of theri Barium Titanate Piezo crystal at resonance
with an series Avramenko plug behind it ??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 09:30:24 AM
ABout barium titanite transducers:

Found here:

http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:1ysyrWRpTVwJ:www.most.gov.mm/techuni/media/EcE02041ElectronicMeasurement.doc+barium+titanite+transducer&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=5&gl=de

Piezoelectric transducer

    * Asymmetrical crystalline materials, such as quartz, Rochelle salt and barium titanite produce an emf when they are placed under stress.
    * This principle is used in Piezoelectric transducer, where a crystal is placed between a solid-base and the force summing member
    * When the external force is applied, the current produced is proportional to the amount or pressure
    * Since this transducer has a very god frequency response, it is used in high accelerator.
    * The disadvantage of this transducer is that it cannot measure in static condition.
    * The output voltage is also affected by the temperature variations of the crystal.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 11, 2007, 10:10:45 AM
Okay, this MRA thing is a bit offtopic to the Dr. Stiffler circuit,
but as maybe the barium resonance plays a role,
the Barium titanate may be also a solution to go.

Here is another Word DOC file of this upper transducer doc:

http://www.most.gov.mm/techuni/media/EcE02041ElectronicMeasurement.doc

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 11, 2007, 03:28:50 PM
Hi Ben,
nice to see your picture now with the 30 neon bulbs.

Can you tell us more about this ?  It Used the Ossie On board Osc. 100 ma@ 12VDC in.

Did you also get the core from this Ebay seller
Mr. Lowe from Middletown, OH 45044 ?  I got from zlowe7 in Cincinatti, Ohio.  Possibly the same guy.  Coils seem the same.

Do you now see much more amplification with it ?  It shows all the needed charactoristics.

How much power did you put in there to drive
the 30 neon bulbs and at what frequency ? 1.1 watt @ 9 Mhhz

What is you voltage p-p to drive this from your signal generator ?  Osc on board, battery powered.

Can you , if you hit the resonance frequency of the core
lower in the input signal generator  voltage , without the neon bulbs
reducing their brightness ?   Brute force, no resonance, did not try to resonate.

Have gone so much further since this "teaser", MOST important, you must operate this system open loop during power generation for the OU effect to be there.  The Ossie C. circuit is just a start, works good.  Always better ways.  It is amazing, there is these "globs" of power generated at the end of multiple AV plugs/loops.  To use it is the basic problem.  Closing the loop is the hardest to do, or transfering OU energy back to normal operating system.......
If yes, to what level ?
Many thanks.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 11, 2007, 05:10:09 PM
Hi Harti
The reason the voltage drops on the test circuit at self resonance is that the measurement circuit  is in SERIES with the coil. 

Yes,but in the circuit diagram he is showing it being measured across the 50 ohm load resistor.

If the series LC circuit atresonance has about less than 1 Ohm impedance, all
voltage should be at the 50 Ohm resistor, so the voltage should
be maximum at resonance, not lowest... or do I mix something up here ?

The measurement procedure is correct and the results are correct. Many have already explained why this is so, but I will attempt to do so also.

The coil (turns of the coil) between each turn, has an intrinsic capacity that forms a mini-parallel resonant tank, so picture the coil and its inter winding capacities as a string small parallel resonant tanks in series. A parallel tank will exhibit highest impedance at resonance, therefore lowest voltage across the 50-ohm resistor.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on November 11, 2007, 07:18:47 PM
I realy do not understand, why there is nobody, who closes the loop to plug off the battery or an external powered signal generator!!! To close the loop, use a mini-solar-panel, fed by the light of the LEDs. To start-up the circuit, put external light on the panel, powered by a battery/supply or so. After successfull initialization switch off the battery and remove it completely. WHAT YOU ARE WAITING FOR???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 11, 2007, 07:29:12 PM
I realy do not understand, why there is nobody, who closes the loop to plug off the battery or an external powered signal generator!!! To close the loop, use a mini-solar-panel, fed by the light of the LEDs. To start-up the circuit, put external light on the panel, powered by a battery/supply or so. After successfull initialization switch off the battery and remove it completely. WHAT YOU ARE WAITING FOR???

Maybe the Wine needs to age a bit more and hey its not Christmas yet.

Hang around, something better may be blowing in the wind....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 11, 2007, 10:05:13 PM
Isn't closing the loop going to break the dia-pole and rid us of the radiant energy being created? When that happens we end up in the realm of the underunity where all of our conventional devices work in...but not really where we want to be.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 11, 2007, 10:41:22 PM
Isn't closing the loop going to break the dia-pole and rid us of the radiant energy being created? When that happens we end up in the realm of the underunity where all of our conventional devices work in...but not really where we want to be.
Is it possible to generate energy @ a overunit rate, then transfer that energy to a closed loop system, that is take energy from open ended system, transfer it to closed loop system while not disturbing the OU system.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 11, 2007, 10:51:35 PM
Is it possible to generate energy @ a overunit rate, then transfer that energy to a closed loop system, that is take energy from open ended system, transfer it to closed loop system while not disturbing the OU system.

Hi

I will assume you wanted to say "It is..." rather than "Is it...", and I agree there is a way to transfer the energy, one of them by charging and discharging a capacitor the way Bedini does it, but I was hoping to allude to a lack of devices that use radiant energy directly from the source and are based on open loop system. :)

I think we should divide our focus not just on tapping into the sea of radiant energy but also constructing devices that are powered by it directly in accordance with natural principles. Else, if we continue converting to our closed loop system we just perpetuate the old inefficient ways.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 11, 2007, 10:59:00 PM
Hi Harti
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words.
So...I have attached a picture showing how a coil actually has some built in capacitance.
Best of luck with your replication efforts.
DerrickA
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 12, 2007, 05:38:37 AM

", but I was hoping to allude to a lack of devices that use radiant energy directly from the source and are based on open loop system. :) "

I think we should divide our focus not just on tapping into the sea of radiant energy but also constructing devices that are powered by it directly in accordance with natural principles. Else, if we continue converting to our closed loop system we just perpetuate the old inefficient ways.

Well observed Amigo.

I've been reading this thread diligently and excitedly as replications (of sorts) have added to the weight of Dr Stifflers work.

Between 1990 and 2002 I spent those years analysing the Adams Motor and other pulsed motor systems. Never once, in all that time, and after building 100's of the pulsed "little demons", did I, IMHO, ever achieve O/U.
But a couple of things about the Adams motor really bugged me. So much about their characteristics and the way they operated intrigued me to a point where I persisted with every possible experiment I could conceive of.

And I'm glad I did. I am still skeptical of the notion that you will get O/U from an Adams Motor. But I am damn sure about one thing in particular, and that is: AN OPEN MAGNETIC SYTEM is more effiicient than a Closed Magnetic System! And an Adams pulsed motor/generator, if nothing else, is a useful tool in proving it!

When I first started experimenting with pulsed motor systems, I was completely skeptical of the notion of O/U in any sense or meaning of the words.

My years of experimenting with pulsed motor/generator systems has left me sitting in the "middle of the fence" these days. I still lean towards skepticism in O/U forums, especially when words like "something from nothing" appear in a sentence, as opposed to "something for nothing".

Bu these days I consider myself to be an "active skeptic". Meaning, that I try to keep an open mind to all possibilities, and actively seek to understand new phenomena or explanations by way of literature research and hand's on experimentation where my skills allow. To me replication is the key to verification. Understanding will follow!

The possibilty of "tapping" a heretofore unknown or misunderstood source of energy is one that needs the greatest of attention in the here and now.

I applaud the work of all those who come to this forum, seeking to exchange their ideas and freely expressing their thoughts.

Sorry to go a little off topic here, but Amigos, you're right on the knocker with your statement. "Else, if we continue converting to our closed loop system we just perpetuate the old inefficient ways."


If any of you are interested, I set up a few pages a couple of weeks back to help some "Adams motor" beginners deal with some of the issues
they had with component failure inthere motor circuits. I never intended it to, but the few pages grew to a total of ten. Once I started recapping
on some old knowledge to try to help these guys out a little bit, it just kinda started frothing out of my mouth, so to speak. Anyway, the long and the short of it is this, on page 10 I outline a very simple experiment that can be done by anybody with some rudimentary electronic/building skills which shows that you can easily "Bend Lenz's Law".

Those are bold words, I know! Notice I didn't say "break", just "bend". But Bend in a big way. After proving this myself (and to other peers), and knowing that anybody else can also prove it themselves, I am much more open to the idea that other "Laws" can probably be "bent". The key here is not to do what has always been done, and not to assume what is always assumed.

For anyone interested in "Bending Lenz's Law", heres a link. When you get there just click on page 10      http://www.totallyamped.net/adams


Cheers and KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops  :D

P.S. Keep up the great work everyone!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on November 12, 2007, 09:40:09 PM
Picking up on hoptoad's post, I share his views in general having spent the last couple of years seriously studying Bedini technology. I have been following this thread from the beginning and decided recently to try this 'one wire working' with a Bedini SG energiser running at 25Khz. I found that I could easily illuminate a few 'blue' LED's using an AV plug with a short open wire tail to 'tune' the plug. The plug was connected directly to the energiser's output 'compression' diode'. A very small current of 100uA (measured with an AVO 8 meter in series with LED) will light the LED's to a good visible level with no additional chokes needed. Increasing the 'spike' level from the energiser, considerably increases the current available to the LED's. I coupled the AV plug through a 100pf polystyrene cap.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 13, 2007, 02:24:42 AM
hoptoad, thanks for your post. :)

I agree that we do not need to break any physical laws, or even bend them for that matter. Any physical law is based on someone's observations and/or empirical proof, supported by others agreeing to accept it - a consensus. No where does it say anything is set in stone, and I really shiver when some people (in our orthodox scientific community and academia) talk about things as if they are set in stone, because it only shows how narrow minded they can be.

Personally, I am trying to look at different technologies and findings from various fields of alternative research in hope that they could be combined into something greater than any of the components creating it. What bothers me is that many people are obsessed with this O/U goal that they are forgetting that there's no "free beer" or everything for nothing. I think Tom Bearden nicely said in of the videos that we only need to invest a small amount of energy and the Nature will give us back everything we can take, and more, but as long as we follow Nature's principles (of open loop and not breaking the diapoles).

That is why I said that we need to focus on the two goals and not one: tapping into RE sea of energy through some easy and least costly (energetically) method; and other of creating the devices (to replace our existing ones) that will be driven by that generated energy without converting it to some other form (closed loop wasteful energy for example).

I strongly believe that we already have the answer, and it is within us and around us. Our own bodies are an open loop system, part of an even larger open loop system. We need to explore the principles present within us and create a "primer", that very first method of tapping into the RE which everything will stem from, because it's all really one and the same thing on some other higher level beyond our perception (or comprehension at the moment).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 13, 2007, 02:54:37 AM
Amigo:

Well put.  I have always looked to nature for engineering suggestions.  She is pretty good at it afterall.  When I consider the human body, that you can eat an apple and work all day off of the energy from that apple....pretty efficient system there.  And then consider that our waste fertilizes the apple tree afterwards.....perfect. Nature is our answer, we just have to look past the laws and our narrow minded thinking to see it.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 14, 2007, 07:46:22 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3457.0;attach=14106)


I just got an email with a few comments to this circuit and
the core:

For one the connection from R3 to R2 is wrong and should not be there.
Next Q1 is a oscillator driving M1 as an amplifier.
This is a typical RF transmitter circuit.
The output from M1 is where you would put an antenna. In this case the antenna is a wire running to a coil. L1 and L3 are what is known as a antenna tuner or matching circuit. As most hams know when the antenna length or is tuned to the wright frequencies the alternating current or voltage will flow back and forth in tune with driver. That is why one wire works here.
Next L2 picks up the voltage from the antenna and amplifies it some due to the transformer action. This becomes like the receiving antenna.
Next D1 and D2 make a voltage doubler charging the capacitor Cp to twice the input voltage.
Next the 555 timer just turns the load on and off.
The D1 and D2 and capacitor make what is known as a charge pump. The size of the capacitor determines the amperage. The larger the capacitor is the longer it takes to build up full charge but the discharge is determined by the size of the capacitor and load.
Besides using one wire output and input this is exactly the same way a 1.5 volt battery in a flash camera makes the 3000 volts to flash the bulb.


Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar. So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum. My cores are made with Iron particales with a zinc magnesium base. Some cores use copper, nickel and Aluminum as doping compounds. As Copper and Aluminum are para magnetic and will increase the frequency response on the core.
Next although this most likely was not from Stiffer but a neon bulb will give off light due to the ionization on the neon at high frequencies. Only a few volts at high frequencies will light the bulb. I used to test some car CB's buy touching on lead from a neon bulb to the antenna. The volage at the antenna was no where near 90 volts.
But at least post that the connection on Q1 R3 to R2 is wrong. Next C7 may be best suited to a variable capacitor to fine tune the antenna output.
Maybe my dual 266pf can be connected to operate 10- 532pf. For driving neon bulbs capacitor Cp may not be needed or a very low value. You can put a load resistor across Cp say 10k or so and adjust the variable capacitor for max voltage with the 555 timer not in operation.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 14, 2007, 08:20:22 PM
I justsaw,
that Dr.Stiffler has just published his new circuit diagram on his website
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Here it is:
(http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3457.0;attach=14106)


I just got an email with a few comments to this circuit and
the core:

For one the connection from R3 to R2 is wrong and should not be there.
Next Q1 is a oscillator driving M1 as an amplifier.
This is a typical RF transmitter circuit.
The output from M1 is where you would put an antenna. In this case the antenna is a wire running to a coil. L1 and L3 are what is known as a antenna tuner or matching circuit. As most hams know when the antenna length or is tuned to the wright frequencies the alternating current or voltage will flow back and forth in tune with driver. That is why one wire works here.
Next L2 picks up the voltage from the antenna and amplifies it some due to the transformer action. This becomes like the receiving antenna.
Next D1 and D2 make a voltage doubler charging the capacitor Cp to twice the input voltage.
Next the 555 timer just turns the load on and off.
The D1 and D2 and capacitor make what is known as a charge pump. The size of the capacitor determines the amperage. The larger the capacitor is the longer it takes to build up full charge but the discharge is determined by the size of the capacitor and load.
Besides using one wire output and input this is exactly the same way a 1.5 volt battery in a flash camera makes the 3000 volts to flash the bulb.


Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar. So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum. My cores are made with Iron particales with a zinc magnesium base. Some cores use copper, nickel and Aluminum as doping compounds. As Copper and Aluminum are para magnetic and will increase the frequency response on the core.
Next although this most likely was not from Stiffer but a neon bulb will give off light due to the ionization on the neon at high frequencies. Only a few volts at high frequencies will light the bulb. I used to test some car CB's buy touching on lead from a neon bulb to the antenna. The volage at the antenna was no where near 90 volts.
But at least post that the connection on Q1 R3 to R2 is wrong. Next C7 may be best suited to a variable capacitor to fine tune the antenna output.
Maybe my dual 266pf can be connected to operate 10- 532pf. For driving neon bulbs capacitor Cp may not be needed or a very low value. You can put a load resistor across Cp say 10k or so and adjust the variable capacitor for max voltage with the 555 timer not in operation.


This is a good indication on why we are limiting the distribution of our circuits. You must have pulled this one from your you computer because it has been corrected for over a week now. Good indication of why we are enforcing the Copyrights, of which you seem to have violated?

>>This is a typical RF transmitter circuit.
You are so wrong!

>>Besides using one wire output and input this is exactly the same way a 1.5 volt battery in a flash camera makes the 3000 volts to flash the bulb.
So far off I will not even comment.

>>Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar. So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum. My cores are made with Iron particales with a zinc magnesium base. Some cores use copper, nickel and Aluminum as doping compounds. As Copper and Aluminum are para magnetic and will increase the frequency response on the core.

Still some funny people out there.!!!

I logged in today to announce something very important, but now seeing this it can wait a bit. I guess we need to stimulate traffic a bit by posting this kind of crap.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 14, 2007, 08:47:41 PM

I logged in today to announce something very important, but now seeing this it can wait a bit.

This is getting hilarious - a sort of intellectual strip tease.  If you take so much umbrage at normal skepticism, you will run out of places to announce anything.

Instead of getting so ticked off when somebody dares to suggest that they don't believe 110 percent in whatever it is you think you have, ignore them and make the big announcement.

If you really have anything, it will shut up the skeptics quickly enough. But the more coy you continue to be, and the more the experimenters are unable to come up with OU, the more people will think you have nothing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 14, 2007, 09:07:59 PM
On the topic of Barium ferrite, search for "BaFe".
Pehaps start at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium_ferrite.

AM

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 14, 2007, 10:35:01 PM
Hi Ron,
this was a forwarded email from the person you bought the AM coils
from....
So he checked his cores and said, that they might not contain any Barium.

I am in this moment not at home, so I can?t check until the weekend, if my
cores have already arrived...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 14, 2007, 11:42:22 PM
Mr Stiffler
I wanted to stay anomalous in this and just wanted the error on the schematic posted.
But since you used the word "crap" I must reply.
The oscillator built around Q1 is very typical and is most common in micro watt FM transmitters.
1) Is not Q1 an oscillator? Do not transmitters use oscillator's?
2) Does M1 not buffer and amplify the output from Q1. Because it is biased off it still switches on and off at the input frequency? Sounds like a buffer amplifier.
3) Does the output from M1 not drive the coils L1 and L2 . Sounds like an antenna to me.
4) Does not L2 receve the output from L3. Sounds like another antenna to me.
5) Does not D1 and D2 and Cp make a voltage doubler?
6) Does not the 555 do nothing but turn the load off and on?
7) Because the load being pulsed at a 50% duty cycle do you divide the output wattage by 2?

For any one that wants to try. Using the above schematic with R2 and R3 not connected together connect the end of L3 directly to ground because it has a capacitor at M1 output it will not hurt anything. Next connect a capacitor about .01uf or .001uf from ground to the end of L2. This will improve performance

I have not made this circuit but I know my stuff. If you have a working protype try the modifications and let me know the results.
My rods contain no Barium according the manufacturer it has Ferrite with Zinc Magnesium binder. I never said their was no such thing as Barium-Ferrite. But that it is not used cores or torids used for RF cores.
Buy the way if Stiffler denies any of questions above I will try and prove it anyone interested.

Any circuit no matter how complicated it my look can be broken down into its individual functions buy doing this you can discern how it works.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 15, 2007, 01:28:21 AM
"Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar."

If you didn't mean what I think you did in the above statement, then why did you waste your time stating that you were ignorant of barium ferrite bars? Seems kinda stupid... lol ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 01:45:32 AM
Just some more thoughts from my last posting.
3000 volts was quite high maybe 300 volts for xenon bulb.

You also may want to try this the 1.1uh coils in the collectors of Q1 and M1 change to one of my 680uh coils or 470uh coils. Replace C2 with a 100pf capacitor you may leave C1 in or take it out next replace R3 with 1K. Replace C7 with .01uf . Remember to use the schematic posted a few postings ago as there are so many around with numbers for the coils and componets differences.

Also use the modifications sudjested in my last posting. But change the .001uf capacitor from the end of L2 .01uf.

1.1uh coils will most likely produce around 20MHz since free air coils of in that range have self resonate frequency around 40MHz. 1.5MHz to 3MHz or so should work just fine.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 01:55:12 AM
"Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar."

If you didn't mean what I think you did in the above statement, then why did you waste your time stating that you were ignorant of barium ferrite bars? Seems kinda stupid... lol ;D

I said plainly in my last post Barium-Ferrite is not used in tuning coil cores. Since that is what our discussion is about not all the different kinds magnetic materials. If the statement I made was from ignorance prove me wrong. Then I won't be ignorant any more.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 02:13:58 AM
"Dr. Stiffler states that the iron core on the coils had Barium in it. I have been in electronics since I was 13 years old and have never heard of Barium being used in a ferrite bar."

If you didn't mean what I think you did in the above statement, then why did you waste your time stating that you were ignorant of barium ferrite bars? Seems kinda stupid... lol ;D
Now I know how politician's feel every taken taken out of context. Ignorance is a lack of knowing something. Stupid is something else. I did not see you explain the circuit. Was this because you were ignorant of its operation. I do not call anyone "STUPID" even those that do not know how this simple circuit works.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 15, 2007, 02:40:31 AM
Now your stating that nothing you said is of relevance to what you mean or something... Good job, you confused me... I thought we were talking about how you never heard of barium ferrite bars (or cores). Did I miss something?

By the way, I wasn't matching ignorance and stupid, I was saying it's stupid to STATE how your ignorant of something.... ::)

Like you said, you didn't know about barium ferrite bars, so your ignorant of it... Now, instead of stating how you were ignorant about something, why didn't you just go research a tad before your post? it's a question... You never said that people told you it didn't exist, you just said you never heard of it. This led me to believe there might be more to why you never knew, so I asked a question. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 03:18:20 AM
Now your stating that nothing you said is of relevance to what you mean or something... Good job, you confused me... I thought we were talking about how you never heard of barium ferrite bars (or cores). Did I miss something?

By the way, I wasn't matching ignorance and stupid, I was saying it's stupid to STATE how your ignorant of something.... ::)

Like you said, you didn't know about barium ferrite bars, so your ignorant of it... Now, instead of stating how you were ignorant about something, why didn't you just go research a tad before your post? it's a question... You never said that people told you it didn't exist, you just said you never heard of it. This led me to believe there might be more to why you never knew, so I asked a question. :)
Why is it you only quoted the first sentence the last part says I did research and found none. Read this I state it twice "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" maybe if I say it enough it will soak in. Buy the way 99% of the time if I have not heard of something I been doing for 45 years, it because it does not exist. You are about forcing me to use "STUPID" word.

 And by the way read this direct quote from original post" So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum" read quoted part several several more times do you see the words "I did research"   Do not ask me again why I did not research when I did. Read this again "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" . Enough on this. You confuse to easy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 15, 2007, 04:04:00 AM
Can't we all just get along? :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 15, 2007, 05:41:55 AM
Can't we all just get along? :)


Yeh, KneeDeep..........this thread was doing so well in the diplomacy stakes... so much so, that I referred to it in another thread as an example of a great thread with people openly sharing their knowledge and shedding light on something interesting.
Let's not get too much into murky waters.......frogs like me can't handle it....KneeDeep

Cheers all  :) Keep up the good work!

From the Toad who Hops

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on November 15, 2007, 05:56:49 AM
Now your stating that nothing you said is of relevance to what you mean or something... Good job, you confused me... I thought we were talking about how you never heard of barium ferrite bars (or cores). Did I miss something?

By the way, I wasn't matching ignorance and stupid, I was saying it's stupid to STATE how your ignorant of something.... ::)

Like you said, you didn't know about barium ferrite bars, so your ignorant of it... Now, instead of stating how you were ignorant about something, why didn't you just go research a tad before your post? it's a question... You never said that people told you it didn't exist, you just said you never heard of it. This led me to believe there might be more to why you never knew, so I asked a question. :)
Why is it you only quoted the first sentence the last part says I did research and found none. Read this I state it twice "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" maybe if I say it enough it will soak in. Buy the way 99% of the time if I have not heard of something I been doing for 45 years, it because it does not exist. You are about forcing me to use "STUPID" word.

 And by the way read this direct quote from original post" So I did some research for different core manufactures and none I found had Barimum" read quoted part several several more times do you see the words "I did research"   Do not ask me again why I did not research when I did. Read this again "I DID REASEAECH AND FOUND NONE" . Enough on this. You confuse to easy.

Look, I'm just trying to encourage you to look harder. I see lots of barium ferrite powders. I see references to cores, but not many for sale. I'm most likely not going to be attempting this thing, but, I believe that if you put down your extremely stiff beliefs, you could have the ability to replicate this thing. It looks very cheap, and why be afraid of a small waste of time, when it might go against your odds and turn out to be exactly as Dr.Stiffler said. Look at it not as a waste of time, but a lesson. I wish that I had the material and ability to just go get everything and build it. You almost do, and if you just put that extra effort into hunting down a barium ferrite core, it would look as if you had everything you need. Do it and fail, make your conclusion. Do it and succeed, be apart of the people who made it happen. Seems like a win win situation. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 06:16:39 AM
Sorry to get so riled up. You missunderstand. I am the supplier Stiffler purchased the coils from. I know the manufacturer and what they specify they are made of. They are not from another source. Anyway the operation of the circuit still applies. I see how it works and need not make one as I have done similar things in the past. I encourage others to try the changes I suggested and experiment some.
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 08:00:29 AM

How totally unpredictable .. hahaha

Oh the great Stifeler has decided to punish us and make us wait ... lol .. get out of here .. are you guys still buying this malarky !!

Cheers,

Keep on Keeping on ...

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 15, 2007, 08:14:14 AM
DrZlowe
Chinese specification for a product is very different to what they actually deliver!
As an example:
I can't work out why the coils I bought from you are wound opposite to the ones that DrStiffler
bought.

The big question is not even what the circuit is. For me, it has been how to replicate the circuit
to behave exactly like DrStiffler described. Now as a business man, you could tune the coils you sell
and for an extra 10 windings you could sell your coils for 10 times more
And I would not care if the cores were made of saw dust!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 08:36:26 AM
It is hard for me to keep jumping to Stifler's web site and back to see what he has done. Most of his coil windings do not show the red dot. The windings are very hard to discern on some coils what direction that is. All my coils seem to be the same. With the red dot up and to your left start winding the coil in a counter clock wise direction starting from your left. I hope this make sense all this left and right stuff. If you need maybe I can a picture tomorrow. Happy experimenting and good luck.
In case I am wrong about all 4000 parts being the same ,I can not check them all but I did a random check of several hundred. If you think this may be causing you problems when you protype your circuit just reverse the outer winding leads in your circuit.
Another thing he keeps showing L2 in the schematic posted some pages back as a dual winding. If the coil you are winding is L3 it makes no difference which direction it is wound.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 15, 2007, 10:29:25 AM

How totally unpredictable .. hahaha

Oh the great Stifeler has decided to punish us and make us wait ... lol .. get out of here .. are you guys still buying this malarky !!

Cheers,

Keep on Keeping on ...

Dean

KneeDeep...Yeh, I'm sort of buying the malarky. Me, I don't believe in O/U. But each jump for the impossible, brings within reach the newly possible. We all know that LEDS are more efficient than Incandescent Lamps in terms of Lumens per watt, but is direct current versus RF excitation the best means to get those lumens per watt?

That is the....KneeDeep.......Question that I am asking. These LED experiments are important on shedding new light, (pun intended) on the best possible methods of creating said light from said LEDS.  Buuuurpppp.  ;D

Back in the 1980-1990's we were introduced to RF/Fluorescent light bulbs, which proved to be much more economical than incandescent or standard ballast triggered Fluorescent bulbs. If the search for O/U results in higher real efficiencies, then all the malaky is worthwhile.

In the meantime I just like bright lights,, ,, and whirrrring motoors,,,,,,  KneeDeep!..... :D

From the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 11:25:04 AM

How totally unpredictable .. hahaha

Oh the great Stifeler has decided to punish us and make us wait ... lol .. get out of here .. are you guys still buying this malarky !!

Cheers,

Keep on Keeping on ...

Dean

KneeDeep...Yeh, I'm sort of buying the malarky. Me, I don't believe in O/U. But each jump for the impossible, brings within reach the newly possible. We all know that LEDS are more efficient than Incandescent Lamps in terms of Lumens per watt, but is direct current versus RF excitation the best means to get those lumens per watt?

That is the....KneeDeep.......Question that I am asking. These LED experiments are important on shedding new light, (pun intended) on the best possible methods of creating said light from said LEDS.  Buuuurpppp.  ;D

Back in the 1980-1990's we were introduced to RF/Fluorescent light bulbs, which proved to be much more economical than incandescent or standard ballast triggered Fluorescent bulbs. If the search for O/U results in higher real efficiencies, then all the malaky is worthwhile.

In the meantime I just like bright lights,, ,, and whirrrring motoors,,,,,,  KneeDeep!..... :D

From the Toad who Hops
You are correct whether DC or some kind of driver may be more efficient is yet to be seen.

I was only breaking the Stiffler schematic down into parts for understanding its operation in a private email that got posted. No more no less. I just do not like to have my break down called "crap" by Stiffler. I did not challenge him making LEDs turn on I was only explaining the operation of it. He was asked many times to explain the circuit and did not. So I did. He has tweaked the circuit to operate the best he can and made improvements. But the basic circut operation is the same.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 15, 2007, 12:19:20 PM
Hi All, the cores from Dr. Lowe have arrived, but as I am mot home until the weekend I can not yet experiment with it yet. Stay tuned. Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 12:29:40 PM
I would like this to be for real as much as the next guy but, so far, according to everything I have read here, it is just an ordinary rf generator lighting up some diodes, with zero evidence that it is OU.

If stiffler ever offers real evidence and enough information for people to replicate the circuit, or provides sample devices for people to test, then I guess we will know for sure one way or the other. But all he does, as far as i can see, is play games, the latest one being the 'big announcement' that he was going to make, but will not make because somebody dared to be skeptical.

He sure as hell doesn't sound like somebody who really has invented a world-changing device.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 12:39:48 PM
Absolutely, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, has feathers like a duck and a beak like a duck .. you can be 99% sure ..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 15, 2007, 12:42:40 PM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 12:56:23 PM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here.
He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.

He claims  a lot more than having found something peculiar, he claims OU - 400 or 800 percent or whatever it is.

We don't owe him any belief in such a gigantic claim if he is going to play games and refuse to offer real evidence that his circuit is OU.

What do you think when you see him let experimenters flounder around guessing, when he supposedly has the exact specs for a device that puts out OU?

What do you think when he gets so ticked off at a little skepticism that he says he is going to postpone his big announcement?

Does that sound like somebody who is confident he has invented a world-changing device?

As I say, I'd like to believe in this, but what I've seen so far makes me think it is baloney.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 01:04:27 PM
I would like this to be for real as much as the next guy but, so far, according to everything I have read here, it is just an ordinary rf generator lighting up some diodes, with zero evidence that it is OU.

If stiffler ever offers real evidence and enough information for people to replicate the circuit, or provides sample devices for people to test, then I guess we will know for sure one way or the other. But all he does, as far as i can see, is play games, the latest one being the 'big announcement' that he was going to make, but will not make because somebody dared to be skeptical.

He sure as hell doesn't sound like somebody who really has invented a world-changing device.

I was not trying to skeptical just explain the various functions the circuits preform. Stiffler himself says he does not believe in overunity. I do not challenge his view on this. (Read earlier posts) or go to his web site http://www.drstiffler.com read his views on overunity, to increase efficiency is to primary goal I assume. I may be wrong it's hard to tell from him what he thinks one paragraph he says overunity is erroneous and he does not believe in it then the next paragraph he talks about unknown power sources that will make the term overunity a common thing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 01:28:02 PM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).

AM

Its this concillatory tone that turkeys (ducks) like this depend on to perpetuate their mallicious trolling on an undeserving good willed forum such as this one. I have stayed out of this long enough, I am a reasonable person but i insist that this game of cat an mouse should come to an end.

(Dr) Stiffler please put up or shut up. Your condescending tone towards all descenters of your game has gone on too long and is detrimental to this forum. You can not hide behind your scientific smoke screen forever so better to come out now before you besmirch what good there is left our your good name. We need intelligent people like you to work with, not to resent for some high school prank.

Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 01:54:49 PM
canam101
DrStiffler does not owe anyone anything here. He has discovered a peculiar behavior in his circuit and is sharing his findings with us as he wishes.
You should try to build it for yourself and then you decide whether it is OU or not or, where the extra energy comes from (if any).

AM

Its this concillatory tone that turkeys (ducks) like this depend on to perpetuate their mallicious trolling on an undeserving good willed forum such as this one. I have stayed out of this long enough, I am a reasonable person but i insist that this game of cat an mouse should come to an end.

(Dr) Stiffler please put up or shut up. Your condescending tone towards all descenters of your game has gone on too long and is detrimental to this forum. You can not hide behind your scientific smoke screen forever so better to come out now before you besmirch what good there is left our your good name. We need intelligent people like you to work with, not to resent for some high school prank.

Regards,

Dean

Please everyone I did not want this avalanche of Stiffler to start. You are free to believe any way you want about his clams. All I intended was to explain how his circuit works and challenge him calling my breakdown of his circuit "crap". If you think it will work try it if not don't. This is between me and him. He may plead the 5th and then its over.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 02:03:41 PM
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 02:08:21 PM


Please everyone I did not want this avalanche of Stiffler to start.

Stiffler left the Vortex forum because somebody dared to ask a few vaguely skeptical questions. If he hadn't got ticked off at something you said, he would have gotten ticked off at something else.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 15, 2007, 02:20:53 PM
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean

@dean
Since the beginning of this year you have posted 10 messages. 6 of them in this thread and not one of the in the spirit of co-operation. I believe I am beginning to understand how people like Bob Boyce or Bedini feel like.

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 15, 2007, 02:27:05 PM
According to Dr Stiffler's website, one experiment was done with a 9v 655 mAHr zinc carbon battery as the supply.
He got 27 hours of use with 10 x white leds rated at 3.8V 21mA with equates to 0.798 watts (that assumes the LED's are on 100% of the cycle).
Power from the battery is 9V x 0.655 AHr = 5.895 Watts for one hour or more realistically, 0.5895 watts for 10 hours.
Power out is 0.798 x 27 hours = 21.54 watts for one hour or 2.154 watts for 10 hours.

So 3.6 times more out than in or 360% efficient.
(Sorry for any errors in my  maths)

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.
The fillament bulb is a much better example and I would be more confident of the results from this.

@ DrZLowe7,
Still waiting for cores, should be here soon hopefully. I ordered some diodes and a couple of variable caps too.

Regards
Rob


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 03:16:01 PM

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.

Does this mean that, so far, there is zero evidence that the circuit is OU? In other words, as far as we know, it is a standard circuit - an rf generator with the antenna connected directly to to the LEDs? The kind of thing that is used in a flashgun?

I sincerely hope that Dr. Stiffler will show up again with some real evidence for OU.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 15, 2007, 03:33:56 PM
Hi Dean,
dont you think, lighting a few LEDs with just a ground cable is not quite amazing without any battery and all shielded ? So please be more polite. It is not a public forum, but my forum. Many thanks for understanding.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 15, 2007, 03:49:42 PM
Hi Dean,
dont you think, lighting a few LEDs with just a ground cable is not quite amazing without any battery and all shielded ?

Stefan, I'm not an experimenter, so maybe I am confused, but from reading the posts here, I thought that the circuit is powered, and that it is RF that is powering the diodes through the wire from the coil. i.e., that the wire is an antenna carrying the RF. There is no 'shielding' between the coil wire and the LEDs, is there? I mean, you can put all the aluminum baking pans you want around the circuit, but the antenna is still sitting next to the LEDs.

It sounds to me like the same kind of thing I used to do when I held a neon bulb near a transmitter antenna cable and the bulb would light up.

From what I have read, nobody has managed to figure out how much power is going in vs. how much power is needed to light the LEDs. Until then, what evidence is there that the circuit is any different from an ordinary circuit?

The problem I have is that Stiffler refuses to do anything but give little dribs and drabs of pretty much useless information and is letting experimenters spend time and money floundering around building a standard flash circuit. That is not a very nice thing to do to people.

And when someone asks any question that sounds the slightest bit skeptical, he goes off in a huff.

If somebody has invented the greatest thing since fire, you'd think he would be sending samples to testing laboratories, and publishing exact specs. And, biggest of all, taking some of the output and using it as input - making the thing self-sustaining.

We haven't seen any of that, and at this point, I doubt we ever will.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 03:59:57 PM
According to Dr Stiffler's website, one experiment was done with a 9v 655 mAHr zinc carbon battery as the supply.
He got 27 hours of use with 10 x white leds rated at 3.8V 21mA with equates to 0.798 watts (that assumes the LED's are on 100% of the cycle).
Power from the battery is 9V x 0.655 AHr = 5.895 Watts for one hour or more realistically, 0.5895 watts for 10 hours.
Power out is 0.798 x 27 hours = 21.54 watts for one hour or 2.154 watts for 10 hours.

So 3.6 times more out than in or 360% efficient.
(Sorry for any errors in my  maths)

The only thing that concerns me is that the brightness of the LED is only apparent brightness and that its flashing on and off 1000's of time a second.
The fillament bulb is a much better example and I would be more confident of the results from this.

@ DrZLowe7,
Still waiting for cores, should be here soon hopefully. I ordered some diodes and a couple of variable caps too.

Regards
Rob




I must state again I only described the function of circuit not its performance. Next the LED's are most likely rated at 21ma that does not mean they are using full power a LED will operate quite brightly at much lower than the rated value. (I am not saying he did check the current I just see 21Ma and assume that is LED's rating).  Another thing if it is flashing 1000's times a second your eyes can not detect the flicker still it is energized 50% of the time and of 50% of the time this will extend the life of the power source 2 times as the device is in the off state 50% of the time. This will appear to be overunity of 2X. This also applies if it strobes slow or fast. With a fast strobe the capacitor does not discharge completely the next charging pulse arriving to the capacitor does not take as much current to recharge it again still reducing current draw. Again with a strobe circuit do not assume 100% cycle or should I say constant output drive. Still 360% is very good. Or even if you divide it by 2 still very good. Hope you can reproduce his results. Even if you have longer than usual battery life still good. And yes a filament type bulb will display the current draw increase or decrease better that a LED at least until it gets near white hot..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 15, 2007, 05:41:10 PM
Just to revise my comment about the flashing of the LED:
I have just remembered that from experimenting with the PIC chip that switching and LED on and off 1000's of times a second just produces a very dimly lit LED.
So putting a scope across the LEDs and looking at the value of series resistor it may be possible to calculate output power.
I suppose the load is odd in that the current will only start flow once the voltage exceeds say 2V per LED (or there abouts).
If nothing else this will make an excellent circuit for a bycle light or work lamp, camping lamp etc.

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 15, 2007, 06:01:06 PM
Just to revise my comment about the flashing of the LED:
I have just remembered that from experimenting with the PIC chip that switching and LED on and off 1000's of times a second just produces a very dimly lit LED.
So putting a scope across the LEDs and looking at the value of series resistor it may be possible to calculate output power.
I suppose the load is odd in that the current will only start flow once the voltage exceeds say 2V per LED (or there abouts).
If nothing else this will make an excellent circuit for a bycle light or work lamp, camping lamp etc.

Regards
Rob

Just something to try. Power your LED through a diode this will cause some more voltage drop but still may work. And place a capacitor from the diode connection at the LED to ground. Try different values if you have them 10uf or so. If you have a very large value it may take a while before the capacitor becomes fully charged and the LED begins to glow even 10uf may take a little while. This should brighten them up a little maybe and reduce ripple so you make tests.
Got to go now for the day I have to work some.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 15, 2007, 08:17:54 PM
Hi Zachary,
Quote
Just something to try. Power your LED through a diode this will cause some more voltage drop but still may work. And place a capacitor from the diode connection at the LED to ground. Try different values if you have them 10uf or so. If you have a very large value it may take a while before the capacitor becomes fully charged and the LED begins to glow even 10uf may take a little while. This should brighten them up a little maybe and reduce ripple so you make tests.
This would be the obvious answer but I think that adding a capacitor will unbalance the circuit and certainly load the primary at a different phase angle/position.
Perhaps Dr Stiffler has already tried this and found that it killed the output.
I want to have a go at this circuit and see what output I can get, I have most of the components - low power mosfets, some diodes, 13000mcd white LEDs etc. I do not have a big choice of inductors but what I can try is winding a coil onto a huge toroidal core.
T650-52
http://www.micrometals.com/pcparts/torcore7.html

Mount it all on this board:
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/Inverter_testing.jpg)
Regards
Rob

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2007, 08:33:57 PM
No .. its between him and all of us.. please try and remember this is a public forum and that he has offered his contribution to it as have you as have I.

Treating Dr Stiffler like some coy child is .. well .. you know how it is.

Regards,

Dean

@dean
Since the beginning of this year you have posted 10 messages. 6 of them in this thread and not one of the in the spirit of co-operation. I believe I am beginning to understand how people like Bob Boyce or Bedini feel like.

AM

Are you referring to my comments made to the other brats that were diluting this forum with their hogwash ?

They scurried off soon enough too .. i really dont mind genuine efforts even if they are misguided though this is honestly somthing else. Is it just me who can see it ?

I promise i will say no more on this issue Stefan ... i respect this is your forum. Hope to contribute something more positive in the future.

Regards,

Dean

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 16, 2007, 12:44:19 AM
I really do not see what's everyone's obsession with O/U at all. The way I see it is that one day (I hope soon in our future) we'll have a black box that you would plug your devices in and you'd have power. This box will self-regulate and adjust to power requirements of the devices connected. How that box works and what's inside it will totally be irrelevant to 99% of the people on this planet, as it should.

No doubt there will be people even then who would find the "hair in the egg" with this black box, and question its operation, but that's just natural human behaviour. Bottom line is who cares, if it works and provides us with clean and sufficient/replacement power to existing sources, it is something we do not have right now and badly need.

Yet, none of the above really matters at all and most of you fail to step back and look at the pieces of the "big picture". I do not say I know the "big picture" but from what little I could piece together over the years, the implications of having a black box providing power go beyond quarreling electronics enthusiasts and into political, economical and social interests, aspects and areas of our lives. Matter a fact they begin there, the technological part is the least of our problems and worries, and if we are to believe those few "insiders", the technology to achieve what we seek has been around for at least 50 if not 100 years.

Problem is that when you have a black box power your devices you become an individual, which in this context means a detached entity from the rest of the collective. You have partially went "off the grid" and are one step closer to truly being free from the burdens in life. And now I'll stop here and let you reflect on this because its implications are far reaching, just think about it...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 16, 2007, 04:30:15 AM
I haven't received my coils yet, so I can't run this experiment myself yet, but if somebody can run it, it could possibly give us some hard evidence that the circuit is drawing in energy from the environment. Its entirely possible Dr. Stiffler or somebody else has already run this experiment, but until everybody (and I mean everybody, not just one side of this argument) gives some experimental proof of OU, this thread is just going to be a collection of opinions, and rather hostile ones at that.

What needs to be done is to measure:
1. The power being consumed Dr. Stiffler's driver circuit, at the signal generator, and the brightness of the LEDs it is powering
2. The power consumed by the same LEDs (at the same brightness) when powered directly by the signal generator.

Note: The waveform being produced by the signal generator for 2 must be exactly the same as the waveform produced by the driver circuit in 1. As such, the signal generator may need to be adjusted between 1 and 2. This is because the efficiency of the actual LEDs may be different when driven by specific signals (as discussed by some people already).

Also, make sure when measuring the power consumed by the driver circuit or the plain LEDs that you account for the fact that it is AC power you are dealing with - you probably don't just want to stick a multimeter over it.

If it takes more power to drive the LEDs to the same brightness without the driver circuit, then obviously the driver circuit is bringing energy into the system from somewhere. If not, then we haven't necessarily disproved it, we just haven't proved it.

If we find that there *is* extra energy coming into the system, another interesting experiment to run would be to measure the difference in power over the actual LEDs at the same brightness. If we are dealing with cold electricity, then from what I have read, you will likely not see any difference on your instruments in the amount of power the LEDs are consuming - thus why you must measure the actual driver circuit's input.

@Dr. Stiffler:
Please don't take offence at this post; personally, I am of the opinion that you are actually onto something. While your circuit must bear some resemblance to existing RF stuff for so many people to point it out, the other things you've posted such as your ground-only circuit and the SEC stuff show that RF can't be the whole story. I simply want to put this experiment out there, as I think a bit of hard experimental evidence it would clear up a lot of the non-constructive name-calling this thread has going on at the moment.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 16, 2007, 04:49:14 AM
Dear DrZLowe7.

I received my order of 20 loops sticks quickly and just as you described. Thank you for the fast service. Let the experiment begin in ernest.

Since you  are the importer of these components do you happen to have any detailed information (data sheets or such) on just what these little black bars are made of? (or I should say what they are suppose to be made of). I don't care if they are composed of Barrium Ferrite or last years Peanut Butter. They seem to do some pretty interesting things as is and need to be investigated much closer.

You speak with the confidence of a person who has been in your business a while. As far as I can tell part of your customer base might be crystal radio hobbists. If you have a moment could you share with us your particular expericance with the performance, manufacture, and supply of the various antenna loop sticks that you have sold or experimented with over the years. Perhaps you might have some links to good information sources that explain just how these devices work in the first place - from a classical standpoint. How many different major variatons of this componenet are to be found in old salvaged transistor radios? Are they all basically all the same or do they fall into distinct classes or groups? I know there is a wide variation in aspect ratio, but does that have anything to do with the fundamental classical operation? Do the loop sticks in AM, FM, or ShortWave radios vary a lot? Is there a one size fits all?

I suppose, in the Crystal Radio Community, there are fundamental principles on how to improve the performance of these low power circuits that might not necessarly be based on pure classical electronic theory. Do you happen to know of any examples where the antenna loop sticks (like the ones you are selling) might have increased performance with no particular classical reason? Are there brands of loop sticks that are superior to others even though they have the same measurable parameters? (Like good Wine)

On eBay I notice there is a seller in Lithuania that is offering a number of 10mm x 200mm ferrite rods and some other configurations. Do do have any opinion on this product (or the seller if you have run across them)? They are suppose to be from a failed Russian Radio Factory. Shipping merchandise from that far away is bothersome to me. Anyway the seller claims that the frequency range is up to 1MHz for the small bars they carry. Any idea as to what the operating range is for your particular product? As it is, several experimenters are exciting your units with frequencies up to 28 MHz. This might imply that the non-classical process is the result of over stressing the componenets intended design frequency range, but this is pure speculation.

While we are on the subject, any ideas as to the specific composition of the Litz wire that makes the pick up coil? Like number of conductors and the actual bare diameter of each. I would like to calculate the effective surface area that is being employed here. Are there other high performance pickup coil configurations available from your supplier or some other 3rd party source? I can hardly see the bare wires let alone measure them.

In the Crystal Radio field, what is the purpose of the Litz wire? I notice in other, older loop sticks the wire appears to be a single conductor. What parameter improves with multiple conductors? Does the Q of the coil improve through reduced skin effect? Perhaps this modification is intended to extend the frequency range of the coil. If so do you have any idea what kind of improvement a Litz wire coil has over a single conductor coil. In a application such as this does the intened operation depend on the length of the coil wire or just its effective inductance? Is the coil specifically engineered to match the Ferrite bar? or can I take the Litz coil and slip it over a longer Ferrite bar and get similiar or better performance? Is it true that the size of the Ferrite bar increases with length and is actually limited by the case it is to be installed in, thus providing another engineering trade off between length and performance.

Since you already have an established import business and probably get catalogs from the OEM's in China (and other places) are there other configurations of  Ferrite loop sticks or Ferrite rods and bars that are available should a local market develop here? Or is this component on its way out (like the vaccum tube) in favor of newer technologies? Is there more than one supplier of this product. Can you get these components from other countries - I know they would be more expensive from other sources. Are these bars available in bulk with out the pickup coil?

Do you have enough experiance in the marketing of these components such that if I were to discover that a particular salvaged loop stick had a record breaking performance  that you could tell me from looking at it where, when, and by who it was made? (I know this is a tall order but it might be a skill very much in demand in the near future)

Thank you for your factual analysis and any replies that you might have time to share with us concerning this multitude of questions.

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 16, 2007, 10:35:16 AM
@MRAMOS,
it is all on his page:

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Have a look there at

 Fig: SP0x
and

 Fig: SP0y


Good luck.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 16, 2007, 03:14:01 PM
L2 is the litz wire coil from the AM core
and L3 is the hand wound about 10 turn coil around it.
He used 2 coils in the circuit diagram for L2, cause it justhad more turns,
so to make it clear which one is the bigger turn Litz wire coil = L2

L1 is a 2.2 uH coil.
You can buy one in an electronic shop.
I bought one and mine looks like a resistor,
but Dr. Stiffler had an aircore coil for it.
Look at the real pictures in his page.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 16, 2007, 04:01:17 PM
Hi Stefan,
Quote
L2 is the litz wire coil from the AM core
and L3 is the hand wound about 10 turn coil around it.
He used 2 coils in the circuit diagram for L2, cause it justhad more turns,
so to make it clear which one is the bigger turn Litz wire coil = L2
Thanks for the info on the L2 showing as two coils, this was really confusing me - now I know its one coil.
Have you got an LCR meter?
Using this you could wind the L1 air core coil by hand and add/remove turns to get 2.2uH.
If we could work out using some standard plastic pieces for a former, I could wind it and tell you the number of turns using my LCR meter so that you could copy it.
Maybe a couple of discs of plastic, nylon bolt, nylon washers?

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 17, 2007, 02:24:02 AM

Stefan
I received a message from stating that the winding on L1 is important. So I looked at the schematic again. The Transistor M1 switches on and off the power pulse is Negative and  due to transformer action its power is directed in the Positive direction. Same as the diodes are wired. As stated earlier placing the open end of L3 may make this less important.

I was doing good to get the information I did on the coils. As far as I know it is in way special.
As far as other makes of ferrite bars sold I can not speculate on them. As they are made to perform best at certain frequencies.
The Litz wire I do not know gage ether however do a Goggle search will direct to sites that specifies number of wires diameters.
There is a theory that electrons only flow on the outer surface of a wire so the more the wires the better. I do not know of any positive proof however but there may be so deluge the site with posts about wire.
The Litz wire is covered with cotton making the spacing between turns greater thus reducing the capacitance and increasing Q value. I think if you had a 1 hair diameter wire and wind it to hairs distance apart it will work the same. Some swear by Litz and other say it makes no difference. I do not care they both work.
Toroid  coils have the best efficiency ratings that I know of that are readily available with many different core materials and sizes. However they are very difficult to wind.
I can think of no tricks basically like  Stiffler has done a low turn secondary and many turn primary on the Tank circuit. Voltage is everything in crystal sets as they have almost no load.
The company that makes my coils makes chokes and such. They make the AM coils special order for me. This is not a item they sell over the counter.

@MRAMOS,

It is not time to leave the 1970?s but return to under stand  function of these devices.
Every 20 years or so things come around again and each generation thinks it is new Fashions, Songs, and Electrical devices.
Let see if we can see what is going on here function wise. Ground is not always totally neutral or 0 potential. Try this if you have digital volt meter , with the set to around 20 volts AC scale hold one probe with your fingers and put the other on something you know is grounded. If you are not sure of grounding put the probe in the ground hole of an outlet socket. I get around 1.8 volts output. Checking a 12ft antenna I have strung about 6ft high I get .6 volts. A volt meter reduces the actual voltage output to .707 level so my 1.8V = 2.545 actual volts and .6V becomes .848 volts. Now run this into a step up transformer L2 and you get maybe hundreds of volts out. Remember we are dealing with RF here so placing a pan under the circuit dose not mystify its operation but helps explain it.  For one a Faraday shield should completely cover the circuit with no active wire leaving it unshielded . Leaving the top open serves no purpose as a shield.
Because he is using a ProtoBoard here there is a capacitance between every connection to ground no matter how small so every LED has a source to the back plane of the board. This is a path for RF to flow. Next placing it a pan also provides a capacitive connection to the pan another path for RF. So the back plane and pan only gives a loading source for the RF.
Now most grounding works by canceling out common noise like you read on your volt meter not because its totally neutral but provides an opposite charge in relation to your input as far as noise works. For the circuit to unexplainable the pan needs to be grounded at the coil side next the wire used for input needs to be shielded again at the coil end to ground and the base of ProtoBoard grounded also.
Most oscilloscopes with not pick up this noise as they are grounded again the ground canceling the noise. If any one wants to try take a cheap two prong extension cord and remove the area that prevents the cord from your oscilloscope  from connecting. Power up your scope place one hand on ground and probe any thing you can find. Next take 3 ft or so of aluminum foil and put one probe on it the other to your noise source. You will be amassed how much energy surrounds us.
For this to work Location is every thing the more active RF surrounding you the better chance. Because we are using transformers here their has to be AC from somewhere for it to work. This will not work in the middle of the rain forest with just a grounding rod in ground. This acts similar to standing under a high voltage power line lighting a florescent bulb but no need to step up voltage. Remember electric potential will flow in a single wire.
Again I am no criticizing his results only explaining how it functions as he said no one could answer this on his site. The only thing I can not explain is over 100ma drive.
I thinking of maybe starting a posting of how things function not perform however,
I also do not think L2 2.2uh is absolutely necessary.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 17, 2007, 03:06:11 AM
DrZLowe7,
Do you think you can get your supplier to give you the specification of the core material? There is a big issue about
Barium Ferrite properties and as we are trying to get to the bottom of things, it is important to know such facts.

Regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 17, 2007, 03:29:41 AM
DrZLowe7,
Do you think you can get your supplier to give you the specification of the core material? There is a big issue about
Barium Ferrite properties and as we are trying to get to the bottom of things, it is important to know such facts.

Regards

AM
Please go back to the 16th posting page.
Stiffler says Barium not necessary.
So what the Doctor says then do.
Lets get off the Barium kick. If you are making this and it does not work it has nothing to do with Barium.
He says I told him they did. I never talked to guy and what you see advertised on my site has been there since I started selling them. If he says I told him that he is mistaken (I will not use the word lie).He can not put his Barium clam on me. I am not responsable for his claim.
Here is his quote:

Two things are no longer of significance until shown otherwise.

1) Effect caused by Ba content in the cores. This was built upon from another group where one of my circuits was shown. Because of frequencies an how the circuit responded it was a viable idea, for awhile. I have not run spectral analysis on any of the cores, I am taking  what was told me by the supplier that the cores were BaFe among other things.
Show me posting where he now changes his mind again?

I posted a while back. iron with zinc magnesium binder. No Barium especially as cheap as they are believe me tear a coil out of your radio will be better or same.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 17, 2007, 12:39:00 PM
DrZLowe7,

I am curious as to how many orders a week you would noramally recieve for these particular loop sticks and how
many orders you have recieved lately. Is business booming ?

Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 17, 2007, 04:30:16 PM
Okay, I experimented now with the new coil-cores and I must definately say, that the amplification effect comes from the cores !
If you hit them with a pulse Via a coil, these cores just ring many cycles with their own resonance frequency.
So when you hit this resonance frequency or a harmonics below it, you get quite an a?plification by the selfringing oscillation of the cores. I will try to double check this now again with some other coils around the cores and post later some pics.
Please Dr. Lowe try to get the exact coilation of substances used on these cores. This is now very important to know how exactly these were built. Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: linda933 on November 17, 2007, 06:01:38 PM
@Stefan

Are you saying that, using the coil only, when you pulse a single pulse from a signal generator and have a properly terminated resistance load on the other winding (in correct ratio to the impedance ratio of the transformer and nominal 50 ohm source load) that you get a ringing that lasts much longer?

I guess we will have to wait for your pictures but this would be remarkable only if the output is properly terminated and the output waveform and energy could be shown to exceed the single pulse input energy.  Lots of circuits and all reactive elements will exhibit ringing at some frequency when unterminated or improperly loaded.

Linda
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 17, 2007, 10:48:07 PM
Okay, I was wrong.
The new cores are not better than the cores I already had.
These are the litz-wire coils which are better !

It seems these coils have a very high Q, so if you use them as a choke
at the output of a square wave generator and you hit their resonance frequency
they just put out a very high voltage.
In my case still 200 Volts p-p  at around 1.3 Mhz at the input (in front) of
the 2 avramenko diodes from 12 Volts p-p square input.
Other coils don?t have such a high quality Q and thus you don?t get this high voltage
which lets the LEDs shine brightly after the Avramenko plug.

I just recorded a movie, as this shows it much better than just pictures.
Still have to convert it and then post it.
Stay tuned.
P.S: All the effects are very dependable of the RF properties
of all the used components, so also an aluminium backplate of the eperimentation board
matters a lot and I urge all experimenters to test it without an experimentation board
and just use a normal PCB, there you will have different stray capacitances and this
will matter big time and you might wonder, why you don?t get it to run there.
Also you need to have the right wire length between oscillator output and coil
and avramenko plug.
Seems standing waves are also important at these frequencies...
not so easy this circuit concept...
So I will switch now to the EMdevices circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 17, 2007, 10:48:44 PM
I have posted a new oscillator that works very well, 'The Thomas Oscillator'

It uses a single transistor and when the start resistor is properly selected and used  with the coils as I specify it is very effective and can drive 36 Ultra-Bright White LEDS while being very OU.

Take a look at it, no excuse for not using it, this is a great driver. http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Oh and you .....  the day is close where the Jester be known :-)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 17, 2007, 11:16:07 PM
Current status of SEC, 'Spatial Energy Coherence'. It now appears that I have been partially in error, in that the coils 'Do Not' determine the OU effect, yet they can enhance it. What that means is that I now have information that replicators have achieved OU when using air core coils. This does not mean that you should in anyway ignore what I have published, as it does present the best and quickest way to obtain the desired end result.

Air core coils may work, I can not say from experience, all I can say is that the cores and coils I have specified, 'Do' when properly configured display OU. If you want to go in other directions, then you are indeed on your own and your negative feedback is not relevant.

Do it how I have presented it and you will see the desired result. If you play the cut and paste type of construction, you are only fooling yourself.

Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.

Do it right and join the team, do it your way or be a 'Lip' server and so be it, your out of the loop.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on November 17, 2007, 11:55:03 PM
"One of the initial problems in starting this approach was the light lost from the sides of the LEDS due to reflections in their plastic enclosures. The first of many solar cells proved to be less than efficient. The one shown above was made from film and was highly reflective as can be seen on the the proto-board directly below the LEDS."

You might find some good leds, and lenses here to get more efficiency.
http://www.luxeonstar.com/

Might also want to look into GaInP solar cells.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 17, 2007, 11:59:42 PM
I will try and answer everones questions.
@Stefan
Any coil will show this action it will what I call "Ping" many times maybe 20 times or so this is very dependant upon the "Q" of a coil. This is way a crystal oscillator circuit works that uses a overtone crystal. For instance if I apply the output from a 1 MHz crystal to a coil tuned to 7 MHz it will produce a stable output of 7 MHz. This works like pushing a swing the first push is strong and starts the swing moving after the swing swings 7 times you give it another push.
A coil will "Ping" many times however after it's 7th "Ping" most of it's useful energy will be diminish  that is why overtone crystal oscillators stop at 7 , 5 or 3 overtone "Swing". If you notice your scope reading you will see the diminished power from the initial pulse to the 7th.

As far as the coils go the manufacturer most likely purchases the raw materials for there coils form someone else. It is very unusual for a manufacturer to make most of their own raw materials.

@dean_mcgowan
Business is not booming as far as coil sales go. I searched my records from 60 days ago from about the time I noticed an extra amount of coils being sold. I have sold about 115 coils that were purchased with out other radio items. @$1.87 each I am not becoming rich. If there are 100's of people trying to make these they are not buying from me. I count about 15 different people. I also stated in an earlier post that a coil from your AM pocket radio would most likely work as well.

@mramos
Yes I mean the 2.2uh coil. If it is critical I assume again it may because you are adding another 2 capacitive sources to ground from plug into the ProtoBoard.
To reply to your other posts. Yes some people do care about function. Aren't you glad to know the power is not coming nothing.

There may me something to extra "Pinging" from the coils. There is no magic here as to function. As to self running LED circuit again I telling about function. If you were left to believe the power came from nothing I could tell you it came for from the 5th dimension and you would have to believe me as you could not disprove me. And again I believe Location is in important. I was taking the "Magic" from its function as I think some were starting to believe the source of RF was coming from some unknown source. The source is not unknown but the POWER over 100ma is.



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 18, 2007, 12:01:27 AM
Jester ???

6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon  ::)

The thick plottens :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 18, 2007, 12:13:40 AM
Jester ???

6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon  ::)

The thick plottens :P

Gee! does not your post explain why there are no publications. What is the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink'.

We have all learned our lesson from your type of distraction. So many people suffer because of your inference. Do you by chance work for OPEC?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 18, 2007, 12:20:42 AM


Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.

Do it right and join the team, do it your way or be a 'Lip' server and so be it, your out of the loop.

I don't get it: why should anyone have to join a 'team' to be allowed to understand how to build a device that is so earth-shaking? When Roentgen discovered x-rays, he didn't require that anybody join a team; he published the exact way to make an x-ray machine, and laboratories all over the world were soon making them.

If 6 people have made OU devices, let's have the exact circuit so that people all over the world can do it, instead of what we see here, of people spending time and effort guessing at what is needed.

And let's have real evidence of OU; my understanding is that RF power input is difficult to measure. How do you or the 6 others know that the devices they have made are OU?

This whole thing sounds so phony that it is impossible for me to believe it is anything other than a delusion.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 12:22:46 AM
Current status of SEC, 'Spatial Energy Coherence'. It now appears that I have been partially in error, in that the coils 'Do Not' determine the OU effect, yet they can enhance it.


Hi Ron,
is this a typo and you wanted to say:
"that the cores..."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 18, 2007, 12:30:26 AM
 ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) .. sorry weren't my smiley's loud enough for you  ... OPEC ..... hehehehehe ...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 18, 2007, 01:00:43 AM
Hi Stefan,
Quote
is this a typo and you wanted to say:
"that the cores..."
It is correct to say "in that the coils", this makes perfect sense to me.

Perhaps another way of writing this sentence would be:
Quote
"It now appears that I have been partially in error, the coils themselves do not create the OU effect but they can enhance it."

I have been winding some air cores this evening for people without LCR meters to be able to wind their own.
2.2uH can be achieved by winding 12 turns onto a 15mm former using 0.56mm enamel copper wire.
I used a highlighter pen as the former, wound the turns then locked them in place using PVC insulation tape.
Then I was able to slide the coil off the former.
I need to order some lintz wire to see if I can get a better Q, currently its only 0.19 at 1KHz.
Although I have a lintz air core wound on waxed paper former that measures 2uH and its Q at 1KHz is very low, like 0.002.
I also had a core with 11 turns  wound on a 15mm former and the Q was slightly lower at 0.15 but this has more tape on it.
I am wondering if I glue it with epoxy to make it rigid if the Q would be better.
Maybe smaller diameter coil, thinner wire, or even a torroidal air core.

(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/22uHcoil.jpg)

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 01:26:41 AM
Okay, my new video is now online:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRw_sCzhFnk


I just checked again the input power:

12 Volt and 3 mA when I disconnect the coil ,Avramenko plug and LEDs from the output.

12 Volt and 7 mA when I have the LEDs running

So 84 mWatts with LEDs - 36 mWatts without LEDs= 48 mWatts power for the running LEDs,
so do I have more brightness then 48 mWatts ?
Have to check this out with more LEDs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 18, 2007, 03:56:27 AM

So 84 mWatts with LEDs - 36 mWatts without LEDs= 48 mWatts power for the running LEDs,
so do I have more brightness then 48 mWatts ?
Have to check this out with more LEDs.

Stefan, if you supply 12 Volts DC into a LED via a 1 k-ohm resistor it will consume roughly 12 milli-Amps of current. Therefore its power usage will be 12 V x .012A = 144 MilliWatts. This one "standard candle" already uses slightly more power than your total circuit consumption.

Why not use this "standard candle" to compare the luminescence of each LED to it for a reference point. You could set up a little ohm-meter connnected to a LDR which is set inside a small black plastic tube which could then be placed over each LED for measuring the "relative" light output. It would be more accurate than the human eye in detecting real Lumin levels and trying to determine relative brightness.

I noticed when looking at your video, that you had about 8 or 9 LEDS glowing very brightly!   :o
If each one was glowing at least as brightly as a "standard candle", then your Lumin output would be well over the expected output for the megre 84 milliwatts total consumption that you're circuit is using. Even if each LED was only half as bright as a "standard candle", the total number of LEDS may still be exhibiting a greater total brightness than 84 milli-watts might normally produce from standard DC.

Measuring input may be easy but measuring output seems to be the hard thing!

Some sort of reliable standardised output comparison method needs to be implemented to give an empirical framework for your
results.

Great research, great video. Great stuff Stefan!

Cheers from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 04:17:26 AM
Tests on LED apparent brightness:
The human eye detects peak light levels. There are cells in the eye that trigger when light above a specific level hits them. These cells send a message to the brain saying that there is a light in a certain location. It takes time for these cells to reset. If after some time has past and they have reset and they are again triggered and send another signal to the brain, the brain assumes that the light was on continuously the full time between signals. When pulses are used to power a filament light bulb, it takes time for the bulb to turn on and the bulb will look dim if only short pulses are used. But LEDs turn on very quickly and so will reach full brightness even with very short pulses. I used the following circuit to determine how little average power was needed to make an LED appear to be at full brightness when it is being pulsed. This circuit develops several hundred volts at the collector and produces very short pulses with high current. Thus the LED is turned on very brightly for only a small part of each cycle (about 1%). It is very difficult to measure current pulses accurately. This circuit accomplishes this by measuring the current through the resistors after the capacitor at the LED output has fully charged. At this time no net current is going into the capacitor and it has a relatively steady voltage across it making it possible to make an accurate measurement of the voltage across one of the resistors (from which the current can be calculated). The LED used for this test was a super bright green LED rated at 15,000 mcd at 3.6 volts and 50 ma. which would be 180 mw power consumption for full brightness. But as the test shows, the same apparent brightness was obtained using pulses with only 0.43 ma average power which is only 1.5 mw. Therefore the LED was actually consuming about 1% of the power requited for the equivalent brightness using continuous current instead of pulses.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 18, 2007, 04:39:13 AM
Tests on LED apparent brightness:
The human eye detects peak light levels. There are cells in the eye that trigger when light above a specific level hits them. These cells send a message to the brain saying that there is a light in a certain location. It takes time for these cells to reset. If after some time has past and they have reset and they are again triggered and send another signal to the brain, the brain assumes that the light was on continuously the full time between signals. When pulses are used to power a filament light bulb, it takes time for the bulb to turn on and the bulb will look dim if only short pulses are used. But LEDs turn on very quickly and so will reach full brightness even with very short pulses. I used the following circuit to determine how little average power was needed to make an LED appear to be at full brightness when it is being pulsed. This circuit develops several hundred volts at the collector and produces very short pulses with high current. Thus the LED is turned on very brightly for only a small part of each cycle (about 1%). It is very difficult to measure current pulses accurately. This circuit accomplishes this by measuring the current through the resistors after the capacitor at the LED output has fully charged. At this time no net current is going into the capacitor and it has a relatively steady voltage across it making it possible to make an accurate measurement of the voltage across one of the resistors (from which the current can be calculated). The LED used for this test was a super bright green LED rated at 15,000 mcd at 3.6 volts and 50 ma. which would be 180 mw power consumption for full brightness. But as the test shows, the same apparent brightness was obtained using pulses with only 0.43 ma average power which is only 1.5 mw. Therefore the LED was actually consuming about 1% of the power requited for the equivalent brightness using continuous current instead of pulses.

Fantastic observation XEE.
It is my contention in these sorts of experiments, that "apparent" outputs can be just as useful as "real" outputs.
When designing lighting for example, the information you just furnished can result in great savings.

If the human eye only needs a very bright light for a very brief time, to "perceive" that it's a very bright light all of the time, then O/U is not necessary to make major breakthroughs in energy saving lighting methods. If the human eye perceives that the light is bright, then the light has done it's job!.... KneeDeep.....

Thanks for publishing the circuit and chiming in with your info. Well timed!

Cheers from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 18, 2007, 05:19:23 AM
The human eye detects peak light levels. There are cells in the eye that trigger when light above a specific level hits them. These cells send a message to the brain saying that there is a light in a certain location. It takes time for these cells to reset. If after some time has past and they have reset and they are again triggered and send another signal to the brain, the brain assumes that the light was on continuously the full time between signals.

I do not believe this is true for the MHz frequencies being used by people in this thread.  It is certainly not true for the video cameras being used to capture the videos that we see posted on youtube (unless you synchronize the LED to the video frames), so we observers can at least be certain that we are not seeing any odd duty cycle effects.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 05:49:45 AM
@ hoptoad,
The point was that LEDs sometimes look like they are consuming more power than they actually are. Therefore your suggestions might not always work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 18, 2007, 06:01:31 AM
@ hoptoad,
The point was that LEDs sometimes look like they are consuming more power than they actually are. Therefore your suggestions might not always work.

"Therefore your suggestions might not always work."

That wouldn't be the first time, nor the last I suspect!  LOL   :D  LOL  :D  KneeDeep

Cheers XEE
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 06:02:24 AM
@ Mr.Entropy.
You could be correct. I do not wish to start argument. But video camera CCD responseds very similar to human eye. It records peak level of light on pixel during each frame (about 1/30 second), the CCD does not record how often that level was reached during the frame.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 07:40:21 AM
@Mr.Entropy,
Sorry, I do not know much about CCDs so I should not have said anything about them. I only wanted to point out that sometimes it is hard to tell how much power an LED is using just by looking at it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 18, 2007, 08:08:09 AM
Hey guys

I don't know if you saw my post a few pages back, but I outlined a way which unless I am mistaken should measure if the circuit is OU, and by how much, and also takes into account any perceived brightness vs. actual brightness discrepancies.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449)

Stefan: would you be able to give the experiment in the above topic a run through with your coils? I think it would go a long way towards putting some hard numbers towards exactly how much this experiment is OU.

 - James
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 18, 2007, 09:10:11 AM
Hey guys

I don't know if you saw my post a few pages back, but I outlined a way which unless I am mistaken should measure if the circuit is OU, and by how much, and also takes into account any perceived brightness vs. actual brightness discrepancies.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449)

Stefan: would you be able to give the experiment in the above topic a run through with your coils? I think it would go a long way towards putting some hard numbers towards exactly how much this experiment is OU.

 - James

KneeDeep... Sorry I missed that post.     ......KneeDeep
Still, I think that measuring the light output in any given LED against a known "standard" is a good place to make comparisons. Astronomers are expert at this!  Maybe one could pop in and put in his/her two cents worth...KneeDeep .......That is if we can drag them away from their black holes! LOL  :D

If there is such a thing as "Cold Electricity" which doesn't act like "ordinary electricity" then trying to make output and input comparisons on the basis of Voltage and Current readings would be erroneous and fruitless. The only common link between all the different circuits, and a standard in series DC circuit is the "light" emitted from the LEDS. All else in the circuit/s is/are a variable, but the light emissions are something which can be measured in a standardized manner.

If there isn't such a thing as Cold Electricity, then all that is needed is an accurate measurement of Lumens/unit area, and power input to determine a Lumens per Watt for any given circuit.

All I wish to know is whether RF excitation is capable of actually outputting more Lumens per watt, than straight DC using LEDS???
To know that requires a method of measuring the actual light output, not the electrical power output.
For that I wait in anticipation of further results from the "do-ers" , Bless them all!  :D

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 18, 2007, 09:29:22 AM
I understand what you say about cold electricity making measuring current/voltage fairly useless - I've actually taken account of this in the experiment I proposed. Basically, the idea is that you get the same waveform going through the LEDs in both cases, and have a look how much input power goes through either the driver circuit, or the plain LEDs, for the same light output.

The reason this works even with the effects of cold electricity taken into account is that with your plain LEDs circuit, without Dr. Stiffler's driver, you know there is no cold electricity. Knowing how much power it takes to drive the LEDs to a certain brightness under a certain waveform, you can then measure the amount of operator input into the driver for the same brightness, with the same waveform through the LEDs, and can instantly tell how much the system is over unity.

Remember that what we are interested is the amount of environmental input for a given operator input - this experiment is for measuring just that.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 18, 2007, 12:02:55 PM
@Xee

If Xee was right I would be really happy, great areas could be illuminated using impulses LED with elevated frequency (MHz). A camera measures the number of photons with an integration equal to the time of exposure. it is important that photons don't  saturate the sensor. It is possible to make a test putting out focus the camera and exposing in non automatic way. To this point the image, in the single pixelses, it will report a measure of the intercepted photons.
However I have the feeling that the circuit of Xee both type impulsive, therefore with elevated spike of current. A LED can be drive, for brief times, with strong current and therefore to send an equivalent light as a continuous feeding. This is particularly true for the LEDs to elevated brightness.
I would want that Xee measured the current and tension that it passes through the LED, with an oscilloscope, so that to have a real measure of the consumed power. If this affirmation is true, we can illuminate the world spending 1% of energy. Unfortunately I believe that is low probability.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 18, 2007, 05:49:57 PM
Jester ???

6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon  ::)

The thick plottens :P

Gee! does not your post explain why there are no publications. What is the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink'.

We have all learned our lesson from your type of distraction. So many people suffer because of your inference. Do you by chance work for OPEC?

@Ron,

He is a minion in some Illuminati controlled organization.
His name appears in the the year book. Need I say more?
www.sigep.org/documents/journal-spring-2007.pdf




Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: c0mster on November 18, 2007, 05:56:20 PM
I can?t stand it anymore? I know there are others out there too shaking their head as well. Stiffler you better learn about electronics and LED?s before you try to fool the world. Go ahead and get mad because someone posted something negative, at your age if you need to act that way you must have some real issues. Cold electricity, Claims of OU, Quote ?I?ll run my house off this?, your just like the rest of the show boaters that pop up here with no real data, no true scientific documents or proof, and your attitude proves it. Bla I won?t say anymore I just can?t believe this #####.     
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 18, 2007, 06:22:55 PM
ICold electricity, Claims of OU, Quote ?I?ll run my house off this?, your just like the rest of the show boaters that pop up here with no real data, no true scientific documents or proof, and your attitude proves it.

You've got that right. This thing is a joke. Stiffler's big announcement - six people have replicated the circuit and gotten OU. Right. With the same evidence, so far, as Stiffler has given us.

I used to light up neon bulbs from RF signals when I was a kid; as far as the evidence shows, Stiffler hasn't done anything more than that.

Let's see some evidence that the power out is greater than the power in. What is it? 400 percent, supposedly? Wow, with OU like that, it must be a breeze to make it self-sustaining.

But I'll bet there is a problem matching impedance or waveform or something like that. I won't hold my breath waiting for it to be done.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 18, 2007, 07:12:24 PM
Each can have the an original opportunity to express his own joy. But this way must not have any relationship with the results that he is getting.
Seem me whether to succeed to piloting 36 LEDs with an oscillator composed by a transitor with max power of 0.62W are a good result, of sure this is utility for the new LED market. I have seen systems for the LED pilotage very heavy and expensive, this solution can be very interesting.
It is better however not to waste time in philosophy, but who has made his tests expose his results to the evaluation of everybody.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 18, 2007, 07:27:49 PM
Jester ???

6 replications and 0 publications ... yes I agree the Jester will be apparent soon  ::)

The thick plottens :P

Gee! does not your post explain why there are no publications. What is the old saying, "you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink'.

We have all learned our lesson from your type of distraction. So many people suffer because of your inference. Do you by chance work for OPEC?

@Ron,

He is a minion in some Illuminati controlled organization.
His name appears in the the year book. Need I say more?
www.sigep.org/documents/journal-spring-2007.pdf






Too funny for words,Stiffler is in good company.

 ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 18, 2007, 07:57:09 PM
@abassign,
Yes, my explanation is bad. But, the measurements are correct. The point was that it is hard to tell just by looking at the LED how much power it is using. Thanks for the feedback.  :-[
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 18, 2007, 08:55:48 PM
@Xee
You are right, it is not correct to make the light measures by eye, the eye interprets the brightness in very particular way. However the tape of Stefan Hartmann ( http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=qRw_sCzhFnk ) is clear, if the power is that that he declares, it is a lot difficult to explain. At 2.'20" is possible to  observe the reflex of the bright flow on the oscilloscope, it covers the brightness of the room.
The bright flow is overcoming that of the room, and the LEDs are not near to the oscilloscope, and moreover their primary direction of flow is perpendicular at it, therefore the illumination produced by the LEDs is under the worse conditions.
Xee, job also in the field of the LEDs for environmental illumination, what I see sincerely surprise me.
However yours is a good observation! ;)

@Stefan
Is it possible to make the test with power LED for example 350-700 mA ?
In the tape, when you remove the oscilloscope probe , the LEDs are extinguished. For riactivate do you regulate the oscillator frequency ?
Can you display the oscillator circuit ?
Is it possible to make a test with more separation from the oscillator with the LEDs ?
In affirmative case, is it possible to use a thin wire ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 09:32:55 PM
Well, I played all day yeasterday and today with the Stiffler circuit and also tested his exact setup with 9 turns of copper wire wound around the Litz coil and driving it with a cap in series with the 2.2 uH coil... But always in my tests this gave darker output at the LEDs than just using a cap and the litz coil coke going into the avramenko plug...
Also the circuit is very dependant of wire lengths and stray capacitances and standing waves...
So it is pretty hard to tune and when you move a cable a bit, you need to retune to the new resonance frequency, cause the stray capavitance just had changed...
So all in all, I tried to find out, where the OU effects could be coming from. The cores are enhancing the resonance effects of the litz coils, which have a very high Q and the core coil-combination are ringing a lot, when you hit them with pulses, but so far I have not seen any Overunity yet in my measurements...
I would really like, if Ron would investigate further, why his LEDs light up with just touching his circuit or putting a ground cable to than he is trying to use solar panels...
We really need to find out, what the real effect is, why his ground cable put on his circuit could light up his LEDs...
I was not able to light up any single LED(yes I  tried it with a single LED at the AP) with a ground wire or touching it, although I used the same circuit as Ron...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 09:53:26 PM
I put today also a 22 uF cap across the 10 blue LEDs at the AP, so I had pure DC voltage there and I got at the best resonance frequency at around 1.5 MHz 25.5 Volts DC.
Then I put an analog milliampmeter in series with one of the 10 LEDs and it measured 0.6 mA at the best resonance point.The LEDs are not so bright as it seemed to be on my camera, as the CMOS chip of my camera saturates very fast at this LED blue light. Also these LEDs are these superbright types, that put out already quite some light at around 1 to 2 milliamps.
Okay, so output was then 25.5 Volts x 600 uA=15.3 mWatts.
Input was 12 Volts x 4.5 mA with the AP connected and
12 Volts x 3 mA without the AP connected.
So I had 54 mW input with the AP and 36 mW without it.
The difference gives 18 mW, so my output of 15.3 mW is still less then the difference increase input power of 18 mW.
So as these circuits depends much on RF effects and stray capacitances and Q resonance effects in Litz coils, I will now see, if somebody can introduce a real OU circuit with it with a positive feedback, that runs on its own energy and which is really replicateable with an offered kit including PCB board...otherwise this RF effects are just too variable to get someting to work in this frequency range.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 18, 2007, 10:17:42 PM
I will now see, if somebody can introduce a real OU circuit with it with a positive feedback, that runs on its own energy and which is really replicateable with an offered kit including PCB board...otherwise this RF effects are just too variable to get someting to work in this frequency range.
Regards, Stefan.

According to Dr. Stiffler, he and 6 other people have the device running and have OU!

Quote
Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.

That is a giant achievement, and taking some of the output to make it self-sustaining should be easy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on November 18, 2007, 10:18:21 PM
But video camera CCD responseds very similar to human eye. It records peak level of light on pixel during each frame (about 1/30 second) [...]

No, it doesn't.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 10:25:58 PM
Why don't you guys use an optocoupler instead of the LED, measurement should then be easy.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 18, 2007, 10:31:12 PM
After the Avramenkp plug there is pure DC at the LEDs and the cap, so it is easy to measure there the DC power in the LEDs. No optocoupler circuit needed, you can measure pure DC electrical power.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 18, 2007, 10:58:56 PM
After the Avramenkp plug there is pure DC at the LEDs and the cap, so it is easy to measure there the DC power in the LEDs. No optocoupler circuit needed, you can measure pure DC electrical power.

I do indeed dispute that you have true DC. If another of the group that has worked with me wants to add to this, great, but, you can not on a properly running SEC circuit just throw a big electrolytic across the AV Plug and get DC.

Even with very elaborate low pass filters consisting of canceling inductors, followed by a 10uf + 0.1uf + 0.01uf followed by two 8mm ferrite beads, you can still hold a neon on the end with one lead in your fingers and get it to light. A true SEC circuit is at such high impedance that the mere addition of a couple inches of wire is enough to change the frequency.

It does indeed take time and care to make these measurement. The method of using a Light Meter or Cds cell and DVM will give good accurate results. With a working SEC you will get far more light (on meter) than you will get from equivalent DC drive to the same LED.

Stick two LEDS in a black tube, one is from a string of LEDS from a SEC and the other driven from a DC source.  With the ref Off, measure the light output of the single LED. Apply DC to the ref LED until you read twice the output (if using a Cds you need to adjust for its response curve). Or measure a single LED in a SEC and then remove it and drive it with DC for the same light output. Simple math will show where you are.

If you keep working with different configurations, you are just wasting your time. Nothing will work below 3.5mHZ, best depending on how well you wound and centered the primary, will be 10.8-12mHz.

It works guys. Yes RF is different from audio and it does indeed take care, but hey, its been done, follow instructions, don't improvise and invent.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 18, 2007, 11:07:31 PM
Exactly what I thought, hence the optocoupler.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 12:17:58 AM


I do indeed dispute that you have true DC. ......you can still hold a neon on the end with one lead in your fingers and get it to light.

Well, if I measure directly with my now ungrounded scope at the 22 uF cap across the AP and the 10 Diodes,
there is pure DC on the cap.

But the whole AP circuit is surely still oscillating with about 200 Volts p-p versus the circuit ground.

Soif you hold a neon bulb in your hands I still also get it to light up
a bit when I touch the plus or minus pole of the 22 uF cap, cause my  body
is at ground potential..
But the cap itself just has pure DC and thus the 10 LEDs just are powered
by pure DC Voltage.
No mystery here.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 12:18:26 AM
Exactly what I thought, hence the optocoupler.

Hans von Lieven

Hans, you're great with brevity. You said in a few words what I tried to say in a few paragraphs!   LOL :D

Cheers from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 12:28:59 AM
Hi Ron and all,
the circuit board you are using with the 2 alu back plates really
treat your circuit very differently than my circuit board, that has no metal backplates !

Please try to build your circuit on a different experimentation board without
alu backplates and you will see, that you need at least 20 to 30 cm wire between
the last coil and the Avramenko plug to light the LEDs up at all and then the resonance frequency will
be at around 1.5 to 2 Mhz only.

I just modified my oscillator circuit and can now go from 1 Mhz to 20 Mhz
and I only get now a resonance at around 2 Mhz not anymore higher !
It really depends how long the wires are from the litzcoil to the avramenko plug.

There RF effects are a real "bitch".
As I said, try it without your alu backplates and all
will be different.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 19, 2007, 02:43:25 AM
Stefan,
Dare I say it, you are probably the person who should be being told to try it with the backplate. We're not trying to replicate stuff that doesn't work here, we're trying to replicate what Dr. Stiffler has apparently already got. Building stuff that we know doesn't work won't prove anything.

Also, please have a look at the experiments Dr. Stiffler (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59848.html#msg59848) and I (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg59449.html#msg59449) outlined - they're rather similar. You cannot just measure the DC current going through the LEDs to check for over-unity, you actually need to check the input to the entire circuit against the light output. This is because we can't be sure that any over-unity effects behave in the same way that standard electricity does.

Lastly, due to imperfections in light meters and response times in LEDs, you must feed the same signal through the LEDs in the SEC, and the LEDs by themselves. Otherwise all you prove is that your equipment doesn't have an infinite resolution and accuracy, which goes without saying.


Hans,
I'm a bit of a noob and don't know the specifics of optocouplers, but is it possible that if we are dealing with cold electricity here, an optocoupler wouldn't be the way to go? While being sealed off is ideal, it seems to me that what we really want is to measure the output of the LEDs directly, not via an amplifier. The simpler the better. Of course, I could be wrong...


P.S.
Stefan: You really need to change the color for unvisited links to something other than the text color around it. From an actual web developer's perspective, it is a really bad usability and design decision. Ideally, you should just let them be blue like everywhere else.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 19, 2007, 03:15:16 AM
I have built the new "Thomas" oscillator circuit and I must say I'm quite impressed :D

I only have about 20 blue and white LEDs but boy do they shine bright or what. I did not have 2N3904 so I've used 2N2222A (found one with hFE of ~210). The circuit apparently oscillates at ~1.5MHz and uses ~32mA of current from my 12V gel battery though that figure seems to fluctuate up and down, I've seen it go up to 70mA when I was probing points with my scope but that's just temporary.

Either way a word of caution to everyone building this is not to just go around touching spots or bridging them with fingers on your two hands because there's 120-180Vp-p on the secondary output and you could (will) get shocked.

So now that this works how do we get rid of the battery altogether? ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 03:49:42 AM
@Amigo,
can you please show a picture of your Thomas circuit ?
Did you built it also onto an experimentator board, that has 2 alu backplates ?

How do you control the resonance frequency with this circuit ?
How do you adjust it for optimal resonance ?

I hope we can get rid of these experimentator boards and can try to
create something that works on a normal PCB board, so one could
create a kit that also works without any problems.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 04:01:13 AM
By the way:

MUR 4100 E
1kV 4(125)A 75ns DO27
from Motorola

diodes work quite nice as the Avramenko Plug diodes.
A bit better than the 1N4148
at least in my setups.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 04:20:55 AM
"You cannot just measure the DC current going through the LEDs to check for over-unity, you actually need to check the input to the entire circuit against the light output. "

Lumens out per input Watts, .....KneeDeep......LpW......KneeDeep  ;D

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 19, 2007, 04:22:22 AM
@Amigo,
can you please show a picture of your Thomas circuit ?
Did you built it also onto an experimentator board, that has 2 alu backplates ?

How do you control the resonance frequency with this circuit ?
How do you adjust it for optimal resonance ?

I hope we can get rid of these experimentator boards and can try to
create something that works on a normal PCB board, so one could
create a kit that also works without any problems.

Photo is attached (turned out pretty nice in close-up). :)

I am using a standard breadboard with a single plate at the bottom since I do not have spare plate-less breadboards right now. Once I free one I'll try the circuit on a plain breadboard and report what happens.

I have tried changing the 190pf cap to 150 and 220 and that seems to have change the operating frequency by couple of tens of kHz. Otherwise I did not have to adjust anything, the circuit is self-regulating once the oscillations begin.

Power is supplied from the rail in the middle, connected to a 12V gel battery via alligator clips (out of frame).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 05:30:33 AM

Previous quote "The circuit apparently oscillates at ~1.5MHz and uses ~32mA of current from my 12V gel battery though that figure seems to fluctuate up and down, I've seen it go up to 70mA when I was probing points with my scope but that's just temporary."

Photo is attached (turned out pretty nice in close-up). :)

Assuming 35 ma is the real average for the point of reference, then just 3 LEDS running at that current would account for 12 V x .035 = 420 milliwatts. You have what appears to be 20 LEDS running very brightly  :o  :o
Just how brightly! is the key question to me. Things "look" very promising from here.

Great Job Amigo.  ;)

KneeDe...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 19, 2007, 05:35:17 AM
So now that this works how do we get rid of the battery altogether? ;D

Burn it ???

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 05:37:46 AM
So now that this works how do we get rid of the battery altogether? ;D

Burn it ???

Hans von Lieven

LOL  :D
Recycling it might be a little more eco friendly.
Maybe not as spectacular though!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 19, 2007, 05:58:07 AM

Previous quote "The circuit apparently oscillates at ~1.5MHz and uses ~32mA of current from my 12V gel battery though that figure seems to fluctuate up and down, I've seen it go up to 70mA when I was probing points with my scope but that's just temporary."

Photo is attached (turned out pretty nice in close-up). :)

Assuming 35 ma is the real average for the point of reference, then just 3 LEDS running at that current would account for 12 V x .035 = 420 milliwatts. You have what appears to be 20 LEDS running very brightly  :o  :o
Just how brightly! is the key question to me. Things "look" very promising from here.

Great Job Amigo.  ;)

KneeDe...


P.S. Remember the idea of comparing the brightness to a "standard candle". 1 LED fed from 12 V DC through a 1-k ohm resistor = 144 milliwatt

If each of your LEDs was as bright as a "standard candle" which uses 144 milliwatts, then every LED above the first three would be well in excess of expectations, when you are only drawing 32 ma from 12V = 384 milliwatts!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 19, 2007, 12:41:59 PM
Just a note to all. I am just making a comment on components used. As a matter of safety do not place an electrolytic capacitor rated under 250 volts across the high voltage side of the circuit. I ounce accidentally placed a 6v capacitor in a 9v circuit and it blew up like a fire cracker. Next the diodes in circuit are not rated to handle a 200v reverse voltage. They may last a while but at sometime are due to fail. A high voltage diode should be used if you plain on running your devices for very long periods. As a standard do not operate a component at or near it maximum. I try not to exceed 50% just for longevity.
I will not be making many more posting unless asked. Or I see something some may do that is dangerous.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 05:22:36 PM
Many thanks Dr.Lowe for this warning.
My 22uF electrolyte cap is rated for 350 Volts.

As the voltage at the input of the Avramenko plug ( where the 2 diodes are connected together)
is oscillationg with about 200 Volts peak to peak
versus the circuit ground, I wonder, if the diodes and the 22 uF really feel this high voltage,
cause they are practically floating on this one wire...? ::)

It seems the oscillation is somehow rectified via the capacitance of the diodes,
so finding the best diodes for this purpose will help.
As I said the MUR 4100 diodes seemed to be better in output voltage.

But at my 22 uF cap I really have pure DC.
The diodes seem to rectify the about 2 Mhz 200 Volts p-p AC into DC
and charge up the cap accordingly,so it has pure DC voltage.

I will now going to try a "H" brigde driver with the 40106 I am using,
so to directly put the litz coil as the "center leg" in "H" bridge driver with 2 inverted drivers,
so it will get maximum current through it.
Hopefully my 40106 will not dy...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 05:55:00 PM
I got a private message asking this and thought this would interest also the public:

Quote
In your last video you mentioned how the coil were no different but what you are calling coils look to be magnets, is that what they are? If not, what are they made of.

These were all these litz wire coils put onto ferrite cores.
So no magnets, just AM radio ferrite cores.

I thought first that the ferrite cores Dr. Stiffler was using would be different, which
 but my old ferrite cores I already had laying around
were the same...

It just depends only on the quality Q of the resonance of the LITZ coils.
They act like high quality Q ( low bandwidth) LC tank circuits at around 1.5 to 2Mhz.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 19, 2007, 07:22:03 PM
I got a private message asking this and thought this would interest also the public:

Quote
In your last video you mentioned how the coil were no different but what you are calling coils look to be magnets, is that what they are? If not, what are they made of.

These were all these litz wire coils put onto ferrite cores.
So no magnets, just AM radio ferrite cores.

I thought first that the ferrite cores Dr. Stiffler was using would be different, which
 but my old ferrite cores I already had laying around
were the same...

It just depends only on the quality Q of the resonance of the LITZ coils.
They act like high quality Q ( low bandwidth) LC tank circuits at around 1.5 to 2Mhz.


Why do you always want to muddy the water? You talk about someone putting kits together, you ask people to try this and that.

Simply put the whole concept here is to be able like 'Amigo' and many other to get a working system so we can move from there. Yet you always want to change things, bring in new idea's and secret mails to further your point of view. I think you would best serve your viewers by not only asking them to do it correctly in the beginning and you follow by doing the same.

Every time you post this kind of stuff people think this is just something to throw together from the junk box, but are you ever so wrong. Stefan why can't YOU build one like 'Amigo', 'Ossie', 'Ben', 'Travis' etc., and them interject you new or special way (after you show yours works). Really should you insert idea's that are contrary until you really have a duplicate yourself????

So now we get all the negatives the whatnots and the you siders and the me siders. PLEASE stop with this, people get there when they follow the instruction and use the right components.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 19, 2007, 07:28:50 PM
Dr Stiffler,

Awsome, thats right.. you tell him, I mean its only his forum and if he responds negatively you have an out..
so can we now have the plan for the self powering version?
 
The one with no obvious power source and just a ground wire ?

Please :D

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on November 19, 2007, 08:32:28 PM
Just a note to all. I am just making a comment on components used. As a matter of safety do not place an electrolytic capacitor rated under 250 volts across the high voltage side of the circuit. I ounce accidentally placed a 6v capacitor in a 9v circuit and it blew up like a fire cracker. Next the diodes in circuit are not rated to handle a 200v reverse voltage. They may last a while but at sometime are due to fail. A high voltage diode should be used if you plain on running your devices for very long periods. As a standard do not operate a component at or near it maximum. I try not to exceed 50% just for longevity.
I will not be making many more posting unless asked. Or I see something some may do that is dangerous.



It should be obvious by now to most, that this circuit is another form of teslas radiant energy circuits. It was noted by tesla at many points that maximum efficiency power is noted when the dielectric in the condenser is stressed to near breaking point. Therefore, it may be more dangerous, but it is also much more efficient.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 19, 2007, 09:00:00 PM
people get there when they follow the instruction and use the right components.

And it is clear from what you have reported that that method works. Like everybody else here, I was thrilled to know that 6 people besides yourself have achieved OU with the circuit:
Quote
Associates (6) in all around the world have duplicated the OU condition to the extent that there is little doubt that it is real.

If any of the people who have achieved OU are reading this, will you please tell us exactly what circuit you used, and how you know it is OU; it is hard to measure these things from what I understand, so please tell us how you did it.

Or have you achieved the holy grail and made your device self-sustaining???
Actually, that should be pretty easy, shouldn't it? If you are lighting 50 LEDs, replace 25 of them with wires leading to a converter to change the form of the power to whatever is needed as input to the circuit. Plug the output of the converter to the input of the circuit to replace whatever is powering it now, and the world is changed forever!

We eagerly await your report.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 19, 2007, 11:51:32 PM

Why do you always want to muddy the water? You talk about someone putting kits together, you ask people to try this and that.

Simply put the whole concept here is to be able like 'Amigo' and many other to get a working system so we can move from there. Yet you always want to change things, bring in new idea's and secret mails to further your point of view. I think you would best serve your viewers by not only asking them to do it correctly in the beginning and you follow by doing the same.

Every time you post this kind of stuff people think this is just something to throw together from the junk box, but are you ever so wrong. Stefan why can't YOU build one like 'Amigo', 'Ossie', 'Ben', 'Travis' etc., and them interject you new or special way (after you show yours works). Really should you insert idea's that are contrary until you really have a duplicate yourself????

So now we get all the negatives the whatnots and the you siders and the me siders. PLEASE stop with this, people get there when they follow the instruction and use the right components.


Dear Ron,
I am now not trying to rebuilt your exact circuit as I stated before,
but are trying to understand the exact behaviour of the underlying principles, that it seems you don?t
try to study.
I tried to build it exactly like you before this and only had underunity output..

You have not yet analyzed why your circuit with just the ground wire
has lighted up.
So why does it light up ?
What is energizing your coil-cores and LEDs in this circuit example ?

Did you try to shield the ground wire with alufoil and
connect it to the aluminium pan and only grounded
the aluminium foil and the ground wire at the ground bus
bar, so the 1 Meter long ground wire could not work as an antenna ?

I have tried the exact circuit with the ground wire and at my place
nothing lights up...

And user Amigo also said, that his circuit runs at around 2 Mhz and
not higher and I also did not see any resonance higher than 2 Mhz.

So it seems your breadboard with the 2 alubackplanes and all the
stray capacitances from it seems to have a major
impact on your circuit.
So as long as you all use these special breadboards,
it will be hard to translate this circuit into a real PCB used circuit.

Also we have to understand the involved effects to scale this thing up,
but as long as your 6 replication people hide and don?t post their results,
how should we learn from them ?

I was today again at www.segor.de
and bought new transistors and litz wire, cores  and other parts.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 20, 2007, 01:31:18 AM
It should be obvious by now to most, that this circuit is another form of teslas radiant energy circuits. It was noted by tesla at many points that maximum efficiency power is noted when the dielectric in the condenser is stressed to near breaking point. Therefore, it may be more dangerous, but it is also much more efficient.

I would just like to touch up on this because I believe it is important to put things into a different perspective than what's commonly thought of. I am not focusing on armagdn03 specifically with this post, it's written to everyone.

Tesla's World at the turn of the 19th and into the early 20th century was nothing like our World. His World had almost insignificant amount of RF pollution so he could've detected, if he wanted, his emissions on the other side of the planet without much effort.
On the other hand, our World is so much polluted with RF that almost any part of the spectrum up to the GHz and beyond is saturated with some kind of artificial radio emissions. Because of that what we are doing and trying to achieve makes it that much harder.

Next, Tesla used to build his own capacitors (and I'll repeat: Tesla used to build his capacitors). Sure, people have replicated some of Teslas's patents and experiments but they fail to realize the level of mastery Tesla had when it comes to building components specifically for the circuit at hand. Each component Tesla made was most likely fine tuned for that exact application and his own specification with all the factors accounted for.
If any one of you believes they can go to a store (or order online) and buy a cap and think they can get away with it, you've got something else coming at you.

Components Tesla used are nothing like the components we have today. Heck, the air he was breathing is nothing like the air we have today, who knows what kind of plasma discharge quality you get when the Oxygen concentration is higher in the air or there are less pollutants and what not.

Furthermore, I do not know if any of you read other papers and writings on radiant energy and such, but from my (limited) understanding I can gather that what everyone is seeking is NOT in the normal RF field. The waves we are seeking to utilize are scalar/longitudinal not transverse. Thus any kind of equipment and measurement being done in the transverse world can be tossed out the window.

Debate over normal RF are pointless as well because any circuits dealing with transverse waves are not part of our quest for they are based on the closed loop world and as such will not produce "free" energy or over-unity effects. We should focus on ways of producing, detecting, measuring and collecting scalar waves, and tapping into the radiant energy field through collapsing magnetic fields (or other principles if you know of, but the collapsing magnetic field has been documented by other researchers already).

What I'm trying to say here is unless someone can come up to me and show me a circuit that detects and measures radiant energy (who knows maybe measuring scalar waves actually does this?!?) anything that's being done on any level is really just a "novelty" without it.

Trying to prove RE, OU etc is plain silly using conventional formulas because these equations look nice but really add up to nothing useful. They were invented to serve a purpose at one time but now it is time for a totally new mathematics (and physics) and unfortunately we do not have it (Tesla DID say he had the math but no one has ever seen it and I can only conclude that our "Overlords" have gotten to it before we could).

Thank you.

/me steps down from the soap box
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 20, 2007, 01:48:29 AM
@Amigos - Well stated!  ;)
Think of radiant energy as you would a black hole. If it exists, you may not be able to observe it directly. You "may" only observe it's presence by the effect it has on the "observable".

I have stated many times in this forum, that I do not believe in O/U. However, there is a distinction between tapping an energy source that may exist, like a yacht tapping the wind, and the notion of getting something "from" nothing (O/U).

The greatest challenge in these experiments is to "see" something "observable", which may be attributable to something unobservable, and more importantly, currently unaccountable!
LOL ,,,,,   you know, like the results of politics  LOL  :D  :D

Anyway Amigos, you have my knod of agreement for your last post....well stated.
Cheers from the Toad who Hops....KneeDeep  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 20, 2007, 02:56:48 AM
I figured to follow up on my yesterday's post about aluminium plates and such. They say picture is worth a thousand words, so...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 03:34:01 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 20, 2007, 03:40:26 AM
I figured to follow up on my yesterday's post about aluminium plates and such. They say picture is worth a thousand words, so...
Yep! In this case, I'd say so..........KneeDeep
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 20, 2007, 04:00:23 AM
@Amigo,
well done,
but how much power is gointo into the circuit ?
What is the input power without the LEDs and with the LEDs ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 20, 2007, 04:03:00 AM
Unfortunately I must report that the effects present on the aluminium backed board are not there on plain vanilla one.

The neon bulb does not light on the white vanilla board and so there are no HV effects or anything of that kind. That circuit seems to operate on ~2.06MHz here, while the one with the aluminium board half of that frequency (~1.09MHz).

Not sure what to think of it now, though I am not interested in measuring any kind of gains or losses because of these occurrences and because of what I wrote above in my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079).

I only have one core at the moment (still waiting for the shipment to arrive) so doing side-by-side testing is impossible.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 20, 2007, 04:11:11 AM
Unfortunately I must report that the effects present on the aluminium backed board are not there on plain vanilla one.


Many thanks for confirming this.
So we know now, that we really need an alu backplate for the real effects
to happen.
No wonder I did not get the same effects as Dr.Stiffler.

As I said, the stray capacitance couplings plays a major role at these
frequencies in these circuits.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 20, 2007, 04:20:35 AM
I'm not sure why is everyone obsessing with measuring things and calculating numbers. My stance is clear, as in my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079), and only hoptoad seems to understand what I'm saying.

@EMdevices
This is the "Thomas" oscillator from Dr.Stiffler's page, I have just re-created it in effort to confirm or dispute the claim.

@hartiberlin
I think Dr.Stiffler said so many times that people should follow his exact steps in order to re-create the effect, so I think we owe it to him to do so, at least at first. And please let's drop this power measurements stuff, you and I both know that those numbers are fictitious, the Watts are derived from the Amps and as Bedini said, I'd love to see someone actually show me what 1 Amp is. ;D

Otherwise, I do not know if this confirms anything or not. My findings are just my own and others should try to re-create this - we cannot draw any conclusions based on just one report alone, so get cracking everyone :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 20, 2007, 04:37:45 AM
Okay, maybe we should really do some battery tests, how long your 12 Volts battery will last by
powering this circuit ?
Please compare it to driving the LEDs with pure 12 Volts DC on a current limiting resistor
at about the same brightness.

Surely the Thomas circuit will last longer, cause batteries seem to have more capacity at AC
or pulse draining.
Probably a chemical effect in batteries.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 20, 2007, 05:48:40 AM
I'm not sure why is everyone obsessing with measuring things and calculating numbers.
In the pursuit of scientific understanding, fortunately or unfortunately, there is a need for empirical recording and measurement.
In everyday life, this helps us to make every day choices. If I were a "petrol" head and didn't care about the cost of fuel, then comparing for example how many miles per gallon a car achieved wouldn't worry me or influence my decision to buy it, but for the rest of us budget conscious, eco-concerned types, miles per gallon is a high consideration. If I want to buy a fuel efficient car, I need some sort of empirical basis upon which to compare two or more vehicles in order to choose the correct one.

Same goes for possible lighting systems. I would want to install the system which gives me the most Lumens per watt. I wouldn't care less, as an average consumer, where all those Lumens came from, so long as I thought it was "green" and the most economical.

I hate figures and calculations, but in the end they are important. Supposing you think you have such an efficient circuit that it must be more efficient than any other method. How do you prove it. By empirical comparison.

As I've stated before, choosing what you are going to measure and compare seems to be the hard part here, and the choices may be crucial to many questions and results in these experiments.

KneeDeep.....I think all the bright lights are make making me dizzzzzy.......

Great work everyone! Cheers from the Toad who Hops :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 20, 2007, 06:08:39 AM
Unfortunately I must report that the effects present on the aluminium backed board are not there on plain vanilla one.

The neon bulb does not light on the white vanilla board and so there are no HV effects or anything of that kind. That circuit seems to operate on ~2.06MHz here, while the one with the aluminium board half of that frequency (~1.09MHz).

I noticed that all the LEDS were lit up O.K though. This could be a blessing in disguise! No HV and still all LEDS lit up?
NO HV means SAFER!
KneeDeep......Great stuff Amigo  ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 20, 2007, 08:14:21 AM
Thanks hoptoad for your explanation of why measurement is important - I was trying to figure out how to put it, and now I don't have to. :-)

As to figuring out what exactly we want to measure, I think for the moment we need to measure the amount of environmental input for a certain operator input, i.e. the amount of cold electricity/radiant energy which is converted to "useful" energy, per watt of electricity we input.

As far as I can tell, the way to do this is measuring the excess light emitted by an LED in an SEC circuit compared to what they normally would emit with the same input signal. The energy difference is the amount of radiant energy which the LEDs are converting to light. Just to be clear, by 'what they normally would emit', I am referring to their output without the radiant energy which is added by the SEC circuit. This could for example mean the output of the same LEDs, driven directly by the function generator. This experiment will only work however if the radiant energy is not converted to electricity in the SEC circuit, but is converted to light in the LEDs. If the SEC circuit converts radiant energy directly to electricity, the experiment may not show anything. As a result, if this experiment shows excess energy then it definitely exists, however if it doesn't show excess energy, that does not mean it doesn't exist.

You may have noticed that I like to stress the words "same signal". This is because you must be careful of any effects of the input signal on the efficiency of LEDs. If you want to compare a "standard" circuit to an SEC circuit, you must make sure the same signal is going through the LEDs in both, otherwise the LEDs in both circuits may have different efficiencies in converting input energy to light. This would render any actual numbers you get invalid.

While I havn't got the coils or the equipment yet and thus cannot make these measurements myself, I am working on getting hold of the needed materials, and aim to make these measurements ASAP. The important thing about these measurements is if the SEC circuit does indeed facilitate the conversion of radiant energy to light in the LEDs, these measurements will show it, and therefore give us some hard numbers.

If anybody has the know-how and the equipment, it would be great if they could try and make some of these measurements before I get around to it...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 20, 2007, 11:22:53 AM
Hi Harti, and Dr Stiffler,

I have created a preliminary (non tested) printed circuit board design for the "Thomas oscillator" version of the cold electricity circuit (marked for non commercial use.)  I would like to share this here, but  am hoping both you and Dr Stiffler review it first. (  Ron's email address is probably private)
I have created this in PCB Express (free download), so anyone could email the design and have a board made at low cost (without parts installed).
Cost could be under  $10 each (shipping extra) if we shared a big enough order.  Anyway, just let me know where to send the data file, if you are interested. I may be able to do other versions as time permits.

DerrickA
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 20, 2007, 12:50:57 PM
I suggest replace LED's with 4 diode (1N4148) and capacitor for energy measurement. I use that way for measurement.
If you have battery input, easy is measure P=U*I (just measure current, voltage is from battery).
In my (HF) experiment, I measure time for charging capacitor to 50 V voltage (for safety reason). On 470 uF its discharge has good spark (don't go up with charging).
Energy in capacitor is E=0.5*C*U*U, and it is in J = W/s.
See on my web, how easy is with 3W input (car hand lamp electronics with 1 transistor), charge that capacitor without wires in 60 second, and collect around 0.5 W/s energy.
Here in my experiment is input 3W/s, and every 60 second output is 0.5 W/s. Little energy, but great spark.

I write (in some post) that 1 AAA battery can light up 50 LED for 1-2 hours, with HF converting of 1.5 V with some FET converter.

Try to measure your real output. It is important...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 20, 2007, 01:31:24 PM

I write (in some post) that 1 AAA battery can light up 50 LED for 1-2 hours, with HF converting of 1.5 V with some FET converter.

Wow, I thought the 50 or so LEDs that Dr. Stiffler showed lit up meant there was quite a bit of power involved. Sounds like any stray bit of current could power them.


Quote
Try to measure your real output. It is important...

They don't seem to be too interested in doing that. There are now 6 people who supposedly have achieved OU and not one of them has come forth with a report. And nobody has managed to take some of the output and use it as input to make the device self-sustaining.

Even if the 6 experimenters haven't been able to do that, you would think that Stiffler would, by now, have the OU down pat and would have it self-sustaining.

I would like to believe that Stiffler has found a way to create an OU device, but this thing sounds like one more OU joke, filled with true believers.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 03:50:25 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 05:30:25 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 20, 2007, 06:41:14 PM
I have been puzzled by this experiment since the beginning. I have a video at youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDjSMtiElgI) showing a very simple experiment that seams to replicate this "cold electricity" but I still dont have an explanation why it works.

My experiment is very different from Dr. Stiffler original design but I see the latest "Thomas Oscilator" being, IMHO, exactly the same as mine except that he has an oscilator in place and I am using a Function Generator. In my experiment I removed the ground and the circuit is NOT closed loop, in other words, is open loop so that the FG is not the source of the current lighing up the leds. I was able to light up to 80+ leds fully in a variation of this video. I also do not believe the coil is of any effect here. I could reproduce the same results using a not so coil approach with a 250 lamp wire (yes it is a coil but a much different one).

Can someone explain to me, please, why my design works? What is this electricity? The reason I ask is simply because all I am seeing is a series of more complex examples of the same simple design that I have shown on my videos. I am very surprised to see "Thomas Design" to be as simple as one oscilator and a coil which is pretty much what I have.

How can someone measure a open loop system? Is it possible that the Func.Gen is powering "really" the LEDs with one wire? I totally agree with Dr. Stiffler title for his experiments ("Amplification") because what I see is somehow this "electricity" going through one wire has been amplified by the coil to the point of lighting the leds.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 07:46:30 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 20, 2007, 08:05:36 PM
I have to say I am disappointed. I had high hopes for Stiffler's circuit because it was vouched for by a clever chap on another list.

But as far as I can see, this is just a way to use RF to light up diodes. Nobody has come up with the slightest evidence that there is more output from the circuit than there is input.

Stiffler would be the best one to do that, but all he does is tell people to toe the line or they will be 'out of the loop'. He claims 6 other people have replicated the circuit and have OU.  No evidence. Nothing from any of the 6, nothing from Stiffler.

Very disappointing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: c0mster on November 20, 2007, 08:38:05 PM
Also a function generator produces ac unless it has a DC offset so that it hits only + but a coil still has ac when it's hit with dc (electron interaction in substrate and magnetic field theory).

If you take 1 wire and plug it into a wall socket on one side of the plug and you are touching the earth you get shocked (DON?T TRY THIS). 

Look at some power poles and you will see a ground rod attached to one of the lines.  1 wire power transmission is not uncommon. Tesla showed this, his work is used in many HV appliances. Today we are bombarded by mans RF and other radiating sources. Hence standing under High Tension Power lines with 2 florescent bulbs in ones hands. The secret to finding any new source or undetected source of energy is to insure you remove all what we have now back to before the 1900?s.

Once it is proven that you have removed all the dirt can you then get true clean measurements. If you used a satellite dish to listen to mars RF waves you would have to remove all other frequencies that are know and try to determine if what you hear is mars. A good understanding of the atom, electron and proton along with the complex relation between semi conductors, conductors and electron activity in said conductors is a start. Proving it by focusing on that theory and testing, one gains the understanding of much. If knowledge could be downloaded to ones brain without the daunting task of research, reading and experimentation we then would truly be on a higher plain of knowledge for all. There is always disappointment before success.

C             
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 20, 2007, 08:48:30 PM
@EMdevices,

thank you for the reply. Can you send me a title for a good book on "RF" as you mention? I want to understand how RF can light up LEDs.

So, if RF can do this my question still stands (sorry for my ignorance), how this LEDs light up?, where is the energy coming from? And how is this different from the "Thomas oscilator"?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 20, 2007, 11:14:55 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 20, 2007, 11:39:17 PM
@EMdevices,
thank you my friend. I just purchased the one you mention. I will read and learn. Thank you for the explanation too. It seams so simples as you explained.

Does it means that the FG is "feeding" the LEDs with energy coming from itself? or it is a property of frequencies and coils? Sorry for my ignorance on the subject. It is that it seams logical for me that either the FG is giving some of its energy to the LEDs or it is coming from some place else.

Is it possible to measure this energy coming from the FG into the LEDs so that one can account for how much can I extract from it? It is very confusing to see a circut without closing the loop causing some energy to be used up without really coming from somewhere, unless one lead from the FG can give energy to the LEDs as in the video without closing the loop and therefore no current. But that's where I get confused how that is possible. (I have lots to read and learn).

If RF in classical Electrical Engineering can explain this phenomena I will be satisfied and I will not ask again.  Please, someone that understand this phenomena please just state here if this is the case.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 12:28:18 AM
Hi Fausto,
the explanation is pretty simple.
You have a capacitor on your breadboard as you have this pF supply voltage
line, where you sticked your LEDs into.
These 2 connection rows have maybe 50 pF capacitance.
Now the cables from your RF generator to this one wire connection just
have inductance, let?s say 50 nH,so you see you are charging up the
50 pF cap via this wire to a positive voltage with every positive sine wave of your
RF output. Then when the treshold voltage of around 1.7 to 2.5  Volts is reached
the 50 pF cap is discharged via the LEDs.
The ground wire of the RF generator is coupled also via a stray cap to the ground
lineof your breadboard ( cathode of LEDs), so at these frequencies all currents
flow via stray capacitances and also the LC resonance frequency of the wire inductance and
stray capacitances play an important role...
This way you can get a higher voltage at the cap as the RF output and this will
energize the LEDs and discharge the 50 pF cap...
Pretty easy to explain, but hard to control as every cm of wire counts and the placement
of wires and stray capacitances will vary the resonance frequency.

This is why I said, that it willbe hard to design a PCB board without the alu backplate
to have the same high output.

I just got myself 2 aluplates and I will try this now toput beneath my breadboard.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 12:52:28 AM
Hmm,
did Dr. Stiffler delete his 2 domains ?

Now all what is coming up is:
mydiscountdomains.com

if I call
www.stifflerscientific.com
or
www.drstiffler.com


So what is going on ?


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 12:55:35 AM
@hartbiberlin,

thanks Stefan, so far your explanation seams plausible but one questions is still bogging me (I am not debating anything jsut trying to understand), you explained all the caps and inductance and all that but it seams that you are understanding my design as if the two wires from my RF Gen are connected to the LEDS but they are not.

Quote
The ground wire of the RF generator is coupled also via a stray cap to the ground
lineof your breadboard (

The ground wire of the RF generator is NOT connected to anything. Do you see that in my video? THAT's where I am confused. Where is the current of the discharge and charge is going? from where and to where?

I am asking all this questions because I see people saying "RF" explain all that but unfortunately I dont see the same way. IS RF capable of generating a voltage and current in a open circuit like the one I show on the video? if it is for good just let me know, please.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 21, 2007, 01:07:33 AM
Oh dear some of you have really pi$$ed him off now as he has deleted his domains AND deleted the youtube vids!  Either he has discovered something amazing that he wants to keep to himself

OR

MIB have told him to bugger off.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 01:22:22 AM

The ground wire of the RF generator is NOT connected to anything. Do you see that in my video? THAT's where I am confused. Where is the current of the discharge and charge is going? from where and to where?

Well, it goes via the case of your function generator and the air to your breadboard.

Probably only in the 1 to 10 pF range, but there is definately a capacitance there.
Also if you touch the ground cathode line of your diodes you increase
this stray cap with your body to a much higher value versus the case of your
function generator = ground of the function generator.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 01:29:19 AM
Oh dear some of you have really pi$$ed him off now as he has deleted his domains AND deleted the youtube vids!  Either he has discovered something amazing that he wants to keep to himself

OR

MIB have told him to bugger off.

Hmm, if he really did it himself, then I don?t understand this...
Why is he so angered by it ?
We are just doing scientific research into this thing
and if it would turn out, that we could not get more out of it,
than putting in, well then we will move to the next
better circuit...
Well, he also had other very promosing technologies on his
website, so I don?t understand this...

Maybe he was bought off by somebody ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 21, 2007, 01:29:20 AM
The domains are not deleted - they do not expire until 2011. Unless he sells them to someone else they still belong to him. It appears he has deleted his websites and all the traffic is now sent to his registrar's page...

I hope the rest of you have mirrored the data and the videos in time. :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on November 21, 2007, 01:37:39 AM
I hope the rest of you have mirrored the data and the videos in time. :P

I saved some images and text, to pass on to a friend, but not all of it.  I'm sure Hartiberlin saved it.  That dudes got a short temper.. :-\
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 01:56:08 AM
Ta-da!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 02:03:49 AM
I was just on his site this morning. I was just beginning to write a two page reply on this but thought I had better shut up.
But one thing I can not under stand why he was so interested in having others duplicate his work. Since he was directing every move to make and criticized any questions or comments. Why did he not just not make 50 or so himself. Then try to convince to scientific comunity not a hand full of experimenters.

Well I can go on and on and use up all my 12000 KB posting space.
Maybe as mentioned in earlier posts he was planing on selling evaluation units$$$$$$$$$$$$
Since he was trying his hardest to confuse and make all but the most experienced experimenter succeed.

He will show up some where most likely with a unit to sell or something. Or at least he will start a new and better site and will announce it maybe even charge to access it.

His site was OK but what bothered me was the first thing you saw on his page was an ear bug and mold. If your site is concentrating on electronics at least have a schematic or a transistor or lightning bolts or something where the ear bug was. Got to go I hear a buzzing in my ear.

By the way I will tell you how you can run a car on water with my secret ingredient absolutely "FREE" for $25.00 shipping. Order within 5 weeks and will included two copies at no extra charge.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 21, 2007, 02:08:23 AM
Anyway i haven't been around much lately although i stop by sometimes to catch up on the gossip. I was hoping to have the resources to do this myself but this Dr Stifler experiments are closely coupled to the TPU. I will spill the beans on some of my ideas i really do hope some of you will look into this closely.

The heart of the TPU is the ferrite core i suspected this for many weeks now. As stated in my other posts the frequency of operation is up around the 1 to 2 megs range depending on the ferrite ring and windings. However this is the catalyst and is common on most if not all the TPUs. You will notice from the Stifler experiments that the power of the LED's is brightest at a reasonce frequency and the performace is directly related to the Q of the coil.  One of the fundamental breakthroughs i see is realizing that the coil is self oscillating and as SM said the entire oscialltion is directly proportional to the TPU size. These small experiments are definntiyl heading the right way i am sure but you can increase the Q of the coil but an old trick which SM has hinted at before by using super regen radio and self quenching circuit. This is dead easy to do basically another resistor and cap on the emiiter which has RC =t 5kHz. Qunching allows the oscillation of the 1 meg coil to expand which drives the quench to on. The 1 meg osc field collapses and the RC discharges at 5k. The effect is the coil now has a tuned gain of  about a MILLION!

 You may think this odd but SM states the TPU is similar in operation to a radio and the TPU all exhibit a 5k hash which is directly as a result of using a oscillator which is quenched at 5k!!

The output will then be DC with a 5k hash component but it all starts at the ferrite core and the other coils perpetuate the feedback by passing a winding through the ferrite ring. This is how you get feedback of a TPU. Now you see that we are dealing with pure sine of the self oscillating ferrite ring which is harmonized to the larger TPU coils and the circuit had nothing to do with whacking it with square waves.  When you get this right the output should be cold electricity DC with the 5k hash of the quenching circuit which explains why the circuit is so damn small and simple it can be shrunk inside of a tiny TPU. Further more to expanding this idea i believe the TPU is based upon a tube layout comprising of three parts thus you MUST have 3 coils and a ferrite ring.

 In essence its an amplifier of positive feedback. One coil of the TPU is the cathode the next coil is the anode and the ferrite ring is the grid which is oscillating is our third coil which may or may not be connected to a grid coil but highly likely it was on the large TPU's. Now we apply a small DC voltage between the cathode coil and the Anode. Nothing much happens till our grid coil which is running from the ferrite ring oscillator is producing the 1 meg gate signal quenched at 5k sits on the middle coil but its closer to the cathode just like a tube amplifier. The electrons passing between our cathode towards the anode are now excited by the grid control and race towards the anode. Yes this does work without a heater when in resonance! Because the ferrite core has been amplified by a MIO the grid is supplying cold electrons which are now stacking up on  our anode coil. This is why the large TPU is quite a high beast as it has 3 coils with grid and cathode coil near the base and the further we can get the anode as a ratio between the grid to cathode to anode ratio the better it will amplify.

We simply take a winding and pass it from the anode coil back through the ferrite ring which is our grid to give us positive feedback! The circuit is now explosive because the cold energy is going between the cathode coil to anode and is modulated by the grid signal...our ferrite. Because the ferrite is not part of the feedback loop par se then it does not have to support the real power generated between the coils which means the grid oscillator should run on 5 mA and the power output is whatever the coils will support without burning up.   

i do hope something comes of this soon. GL

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2007, 02:36:35 AM
I just talked to a friend of mine that works for MIB.  He said, and I quote, "There is no Dr. Stiffler and there never was a Dr. Stiffler.  I just said....."ok."

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 02:36:49 AM

MIB have told him to bugger off.



Maybe he was bought off by somebody ?

An investor of any large some of money will not invest unless there is very positive proof of getting a return. It was people like EMdevices and me that were telling what he really had that ran him away. The first thing a scam artist will do when exposed is run for the hills. He was criticizing any and every effort tried to check for over unity saying that it will not work.  Which brings up the question if you can not test by normal means then how can he claim OU. Since there is no way to test according to him.
As EMdevices and myself have shown nothing new no mystery.
As far as MIB I am sure the government with there real scientists looking at what he was doing were not impressed.
Again run your car using water with my secret ingredient absolutely FREE for $25.00 shipping. No scam!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: c0mster on November 21, 2007, 02:53:33 AM
 ::)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 21, 2007, 02:55:59 AM
I think you ruined it. We only had to wait for Dr Stifler Youtube vid number 10 next week to see 100 LEDS running all by themselves with no cables or batteries attached anywhere:)

Now we are back to the dark ages.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 03:08:06 AM
I think you ruined it. We only had to wait for Dr Stifler Youtube vid number 10 next week to see 100 LEDS running all by themselves with no cables or batteries attached anywhere:)

Now we are back to the dark ages.
Hum-mm that would be great if he could. But I think I will coin a new scientific phrase I will call it the "Christmas Tree Effect" this effect is when one bulb blows they all go out. So you have to check 100 LEDs to find the bad one. I will publish my formulas and sell papers on it. I think 5 LED's are plenty.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 21, 2007, 03:08:09 AM
Ta-da!
Good on ya Zaydana -  ;)  I had backed up some of the info over the last 3-4 weeks, but not all of it.
Glad some-one was on the ball!
KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 03:11:49 AM
While i'm as skeptical as the next guy, I still would really like to do the measurements on this system. With Murphy's law, if you dismiss a device and don't measure it because the guy who is promoting it doesn't seem that legit, you're going to end up missing the one that works.

I posted a backup of the website I made from less than 24 hours before he took it down in my last post, so at least we've got it for future reference.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: vidbid on November 21, 2007, 03:13:55 AM
Yep. He removed every one of his videos off of YouTube. But he has already let the cold-electricity genie out of the bottle. He ought to put all of his videos on a DVD and sell copies for $29.95 with a schematic and parts list for his cold-electricity device. I might even buy one his DVDs if it was ever created and put on the market.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 03:33:41 AM
oh my go.. You guys really make me very happy. Just reading sometimes is just amazing!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanjaq on November 21, 2007, 03:44:30 AM
Ya i noticed that today...   Pardon me while I storm off yelling potent obscenities that make the paint curl off the walls....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 03:49:36 AM
btw, could anyone invalidate his maths and claims via real experimentation and rigorous test?

I see a punch of guys complaining but no work of their own, good or bad. A few guys on the right track such as Stefan, Amigo, me and some other, but the noisest of all are just thin air.  :P

Fausto.

ps: an old saying: show me your work and I will know who you are.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 03:56:12 AM
btw, could anyone invalidate his maths and claims via real experimentation and rigorous test?

I see a punch of guys complaining but no work of their own, good or bad. A few guys on the right track such as Stefan, Amigo, me and some other, but the noisest of all are just thin air.  :P

Fausto.

ps: an old saying: show me your work and I will know who you are.
Maybe some could but Stiffler said you can no test for cold electricity using conventional means. I seen on his site oscilloscopes, volt metres, etc.I seen no home made special testing devices.  Where was he getting his numbers from and how?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 04:24:40 AM
since no one will answer my questions above, I will:
Quote
N. Tesla wrote that radio receiver take power from either but not from
radio station transmitter. The consumption power of transmitter is not
increasing when many receivers are in operate. This is the way for creation
of information in space-time that can be used for transformation it in power.
This is from:
Alexander V. Frolov   email: alex@frolov.spb.su
 P. O. Box 37,  St.-Petersburg,  193024,  Russia

I still think RF will NOT produce the power necessary to run the LEDs. RF is only the EFFECT of it. It is somehow allowing the energy to come from some place else. RF will "amplify" the space-time deformation and allow the EFFECT (current and potential) to manifest in the little closed loop circuit of the LEDs so that they will be excited to the point of emitting light.

In my experiment when I connected the Func.Gen to an inverter connected to a battery, it was using so much X power but when the LEDs were lit (because of th correct frequency being set) the power usage went "DOWN" not up. Anyone can reproduce this. Dr. Stiffler is still right in his claim of "amplification".

I think we can create something that will "amplify" this EFFECT of the RF over any coil of "matter" that has intricic connection with ZPE (zero-point-energy or vaccum) such as an inductor. But if you only invest time and brain power.

Fausto.

Anyone to refute this?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 04:31:42 AM
@DrZLowe7,
you right. I have heard Bedini saying the samething before but he also said that those are the tools that we have. They don't show the full story but effects of it. An example is when he (Bedini) talks about the "pulses" or radiant pulses that on the osciloscope is shown as spikes of 300v or more but they manifest theirselfs as real energy inside an lead-acid battery. He even goes to say that those pulses or spikes as synonymous to "radiant spikes".

We can not see air, but we can measure its effects on things. Until someone come up with a better tool.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 21, 2007, 04:41:06 AM
I'm sorry if this is going to sound scolding but I'm itching to write it...

The more I read here the more I realize that I should go look elsewhere for ideas and people willing to work on alternative energy. Many of you have exhibited orthodox signs of brainwashing by the establishment and just plain confined thinking inside the box. You keep obsessing about numbers, formulas, measurements, miliwatts and miliamps; while I keep writing how that's totally unimportant as is a distraction from where we are supposed to go, but alas...

A side story, did any one of you majored in math? I knew math well years ago, thankfully I have forgotten most of it, but what had stuck in my head is that you can "massage" anything into a proof (or disproof), depending on your goal. I remember one instance when at the end of a solution you had 1=2, which was a very clever trick we used to pass on in the early grammar school, and yet it was totally valid when looked from a certain point of view.

But let me read between my own lines: no amount of proof you want, expect, demand, require, hope for, etc, will be enough when it comes to subjects outside of orthodox scientific world. Someone will always say "Yes, it lights 100 LEDs, but can it light 200?". That's just how pathetic human beings are, partially because of their own fault, partially because of the parents and the society who have brought everyone up on the premise of scarcity and separation from everything that surrounds us. We constantly have to compete with each other because everything is in shortage. STOP!

For God's sake go read Bucky Fuller and his "ravings" about abundance, then come back with a fresh perspective on the World, and perhaps alternative energy in general.

I'll refer again to my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079) in case you have missed it, just so you know where I'm coming from/leading to. This talk about aluminium plates and RF engineering is just a clever ploy to keep us thinking in circles (a closed loop, hah). If you are unwilling to peek outside the box and if you are constantly going to loop back into what the orthodox science expects you to do, then please leave, but don't obstruct those few people who might think differently.

The search for alternative energy solution has nothing to do with measurements and numbers and everything to do with dreams and imagination. If you do not dare to dream then your place is elsewhere. If you are going to be the lackey to the orthodox scientific community then you are only serving a troll function in any alternative forum, for their (scholars of orthodox science) goal is to maintain the status quo, why else do you think they are called "orthodox".

Need I mention an example of mere 100 years ago when the Wright brothers officially re-discovered flight, probably being the laughing stock of the whole county for claiming a man can fly, prior to their maiden flight. They had a vision they followed through against those who had asked them if they've done their math on the aerodynamics (which did not even exist then, pun intended) disbelieving and downplaying their dream on every step.

I have just realized I'm rambling, it's late and I'm tired, so I'll cut it down else I feel could write volumes. If there's anything of importance that everyone here should read about alternative energy, in my opinion, by far and wide are Tesla's writings (and of those who studied them). He had done all the work for us 100 years ago, granted he did not spell it all out so there's some tinkering to be done on our own, but otherwise it is all there, scattered in his life's work.

Why is it so difficult to accept things from a century ago, treating them as outlandish, while embracing today's BS theories about quantum this and entanglement that as if they are axioms (in truth they are just distractions meant to suck the money out of people and produce no tangible and useful results, and yet people accept them as if they are law written in stone)?

No sky is too high and no dream is too silly, because mind has no boundaries. So set your mind free...please!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 21, 2007, 04:53:50 AM
I'm sorry if this is going to sound scolding but I'm itching to write it...

The more I read here the more I realize that I should go look elsewhere for ideas and people willing to work on alternative energy. Many of you have exhibited orthodox signs of brainwashing by the establishment and just plain confined thinking inside the box. You keep obsessing about numbers, formulas, measurements, miliwatts and miliamps; while I keep writing how that's totally unimportant as is a distraction from where we are supposed to go, but alas...

A side story, did any one of you majored in math? I knew math well years ago, thankfully I have forgotten most of it, but what had stuck in my head is that you can "massage" anything into a proof (or disproof), depending on your goal. I remember one instance when at the end of a solution you had 1=2, which was a very clever trick we used to pass on in the early grammar school, and yet it was totally valid when looked from a certain point of view.

But let me read between my own lines: no amount of proof you want, expect, demand, require, hope for, etc, will be enough when it comes to subjects outside of orthodox scientific world. Someone will always say "Yes, it lights 100 LEDs, but can it light 200?". That's just how pathetic human beings are, partially because of their own fault, partially because of the parents and the society who have brought everyone up on the premise of scarcity and separation from everything that surrounds us. We constantly have to compete with each other because everything is in shortage. STOP!

For God's sake go read Bucky Fuller and his "ravings" about abundance, then come back with a fresh perspective on the World, and perhaps alternative energy in general.

I'll refer again to my previous post (http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg60079.html#msg60079) in case you have missed it, just so you know where I'm coming from/leading to. This talk about aluminium plates and RF engineering is just a clever ploy to keep us thinking in circles (a closed loop, hah). If you are unwilling to peek outside the box and if you are constantly going to loop back into what the orthodox science expects you to do, then please leave, but don't obstruct those few people who might think differently.

The search for alternative energy solution has nothing to do with measurements and numbers and everything to do with dreams and imagination. If you do not dare to dream then your place is elsewhere. If you are going to be the lackey to the orthodox scientific community then you are only serving a troll function in any alternative forum, for their (scholars of orthodox science) goal is to maintain the status quo, why else do you think they are called "orthodox".

Need I mention an example of mere 100 years ago when the Wright brothers officially re-discovered flight, probably being the laughing stock of the whole county for claiming a man can fly, prior to their maiden flight. They had a vision they followed through against those who had asked them if they've done their math on the aerodynamics (which did not even exist then, pun intended) disbelieving and downplaying their dream on every step.

I have just realized I'm rambling, it's late and I'm tired, so I'll cut it down else I feel could write volumes. If there's anything of importance that everyone here should read about alternative energy, in my opinion, by far and wide are Tesla's writings (and of those who studied them). He had done all the work for us 100 years ago, granted he did not spell it all out so there's some tinkering to be done on our own, but otherwise it is all there, scattered in his life's work.

Why is it so difficult to accept things from a century ago, treating them as outlandish, while embracing today's BS theories about quantum this and entanglement that as if they are axioms (in truth they are just distractions meant to suck the money out of people and produce no tangible and useful results, and yet people accept them as if they are law written in stone)?

No sky is too high and no dream is too silly, because mind has no boundaries. So set your mind free...please!

I see .. so you are advocating becoming more ignorant to make more progress ... fascinating !!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanjaq on November 21, 2007, 04:55:33 AM
Thank you Amigo, that just made my day  :]

illegitimi non carborundum!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 05:00:28 AM
since no one will answer my questions above, I will:
Quote
N. Tesla wrote that radio receiver take power from either but not from
radio station transmitter. The consumption power of transmitter is not
increasing when many receivers are in operate. This is the way for creation
of information in space-time that can be used for transformation it in power.
This is from:
Alexander V. Frolov   email: alex@frolov.spb.su
 P. O. Box 37,  St.-Petersburg,  193024,  Russia

I still think RF will NOT produce the power necessary to run the LEDs. RF is only the EFFECT of it. It is somehow allowing the energy to come from some place else. RF will "amplify" the space-time deformation and allow the EFFECT (current and potential) to manifest in the little closed loop circuit of the LEDs so that they will be excited to the point of emitting light.

In my experiment when I connected the Func.Gen to an inverter connected to a battery, it was using so much X power but when the LEDs were lit (because of th correct frequency being set) the power usage went "DOWN" not up. Anyone can reproduce this. Dr. Stiffler is still right in his claim of "amplification".

I think we can create something that will "amplify" this EFFECT of the RF over any coil of "matter" that has intricic connection with ZPE (zero-point-energy or vaccum) such as an inductor. But if you only invest time and brain power.

Fausto.

Anyone to refute this?

Say what??? Space-Time. EEK
I stated earlier every 20 years or so things come back into fashion but this one goes way back.
When I was young about 13 years I was reading about electromagnetic effects. It was a belief at the time the book I was reading that there existed an "Ether" this was matter but not like normal matter it was not made of atoms and such and filled all the empty space between electrons and protons etc. although it was not effected much by matter an electron passing through it caused a wake. This wake was tangible and what was thought to be lines of force you see from a magnet. That made perfect sense to me. So an electron passing in a wire causes an "Ether" wake. And if reversed its flow the wake would travel in the "Ether".
However the "Ether" theory was dropped and I no longer could visualize magnetic fields. So may theories came about to explain it however the "Ether" made more sense to me.
Anyway due to new findings scientist not to admit they were wrong about the "Ether" called it "Dark Matter". It is very similar to the old "Ether" only has weight. So now it is "Dark Matter".
Here is simple fact when his coil peeked the resistance of the coil mathematically should be infinite. But since no coil is perfect your current will drop at resonance. This has nothing to do "Seacetime" the 5th dimension or any thing but resonance.
You need to know more about electronics and less about "Space Time" and over analizing something.
Buy the way was ZPM coined before or after the Sci-FY series "Stargate".
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 05:44:55 AM
I'm sorry if this is going to sound scolding but I'm itching to write it...

The more I read here the more I realize that I should go look elsewhere for ideas and people willing to work on alternative energy. Many of you have exhibited orthodox signs of brainwashing by the establishment and just plain confined thinking inside the box. You keep obsessing about numbers, formulas, measurements, miliwatts and miliamps; while I keep writing how that's totally unimportant as is a distraction from where we are supposed to go, but alas...

A side story, did any one of you majored in math? I knew math well years ago, thankfully I have forgotten most of it, but what had stuck in my head is that you can "massage" anything into a proof (or disproof), depending on your goal. I remember one instance when at the end of a solution you had 1=2, which was a very clever trick we used to pass on in the early grammar school, and yet it was totally valid when looked from a certain point of view.


I know you forgot your math. But we are not using complaced algebra here. "Watts in" - "Watts out" . Is "Watts out" positive or negative.
We are not brain washed we are open to advancement. The Wright Brothers had to prove flight and did just claiming it. The devices you are making require Math as the Wright Brother needed air. As your claims can not fly without math no more than Wright Brothers could prove flight with out air.
I am not telling you not to explore just find ways to measure and prove. And quit saying math in this instance is of no value.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 06:24:59 AM
Amigo:
I can understand how you would be agitated at people seemingly not thinking outside of the box. I'm a software engineer with a few ideas of my own which have been frequently called "impossible" purely because they are unconventional. And thats not the only area people tell me I can't do something purely because nobody else has ever thought of it.

However, if i'm not mistaken, what we are searching for is a way to produce power seemingly out of thin air. Some people may dispute the wording of that, but to be blunt about it, thats what we want. We want a box we can plug our devices into, and they'll run. Unless I'm mistaken, that is the reason most of us area here. We want one of those boxes.

So, when somebody claims they've built an OU machine, the first thing they want to know is if it could possibly used to build that black box. This is why so many people are asking for numbers - if we have a single number which proves to us beyond all doubt that this device has a COP > 1, then what does at matter what other people think, orthodox or not? We have our black box, and we're happy at that.

While obviously dreams and imagination are a huge part of the search for alternative energy, things still need to be grounded in reality. We'll never find an alternative energy source if we can't think outside the box, as you say. But we'll never find one either if we can't prove that what we have found will provide that energy. There is plenty of imagination amoungst the people in this thread, but now we have something, we need to test it, and see if it provides what we are looking for. If it does (which many people seem to believe), then there'll be plenty of time for more dreams and imagination afterwards, but if it doesn't, theres no point continuing to waste time on it. Tesla obviously had a brilliant imagination, and huge dreams. However, he wasn't averse to numbers. Indeed, without numbers, he never would have stood a chance.

I guess if you can build a device which powers itself, that would be ample proof, and we would stop asking for numbers. But if every time we heard about a claimed OU device we didn't stop working on it until we built a self-powering setup, most of us wouldn't have even got around to looking at this claim. While the numbers won't prove anything about the nature of cold electricity, they can disprove the RF hypothesis, and give us continued reason to look for the principles of operation of this circuit.

In short, we want to disprove their RF hypothesis with their own numbers, so that we can keep dreaming.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 06:40:13 AM
and now the word is "resonance". So magical so simple so explainable and yet meaningless.

Can someone please, explain what resonance really is? I hear this as an explanation for the phenomena and the first answer was RF and now is resonance. Please. Explain it like my 1 year old daugther could understand.

It means nothing this word as some are using so it is amps here and amps there. As Bedini said: What is an current?

Because mathematically things makes some sence when impedance and capacitance gets into synch does not explain anything at all. Thats the problem which I agree with amigo. People are just repeating books but no brains, no logic, no real understanding.

So again, how come the LEDs are lighting up with RF and now resonance? How could Dr. Stifller "amplify" this simple stupid thing called "resonance"?

Before was the: light is a wave and now is a particle (which particle sounds more convincing) but waves does not explain anything, does it? What is it?

Until we understand, like amigo said, outside the box, none of you guys will ever get anywhere.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 21, 2007, 06:50:49 AM
Resonance is the exchange of energy that happens between two bodies of the same frequency or harmonics of that frequency.

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:05:37 AM
@zaydana
You are correct. Look outside , inside and under the box. The Armstrong oscillator "Thomson circuit" was claimed by Stiffler to be well over overunity buy at least 2 times. This is a very simple circuit and if Stiffler was correct in his clams this simple device should be enough to work with. I have seen Stiffler show or make around 4 different types of oscillator circuits to produce the high voltage and high frequencies for his devices. If this simple one produces 2X+ overunity work on and explore it. If you can not prove OU with it try building something more elaborate. Say one of his 4X OU circuits. I am not saying stop.
My only thing with math is Stiffler clams overunity at the same time saying it can not be measured so how can he claim OU. He must be getting numbers somewhere.Or making assumptions which is not good science.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:40:41 AM
and now the word is "resonance". So magical so simple so explainable and yet meaningless.

Can someone please, explain what resonance really is? I hear this as an explanation for the phenomena and the first answer was RF and now is resonance. Please. Explain it like my 1 year old daugther could understand.

Fausto.
If you apply a current to a wire or coil a magnetic field will build up then if you break the current an opposite field will build up and collapse and build up then collapse again each time in a diffrent direction with less energy at a rate dependant on inductance. For every action there is a like and oppsitate reaction so say your daughter is an electron on a swing when you give a push it will swing back and fourth. This back and fourth movement is the resonate frequency of the swing.  But at resonance once you push the swing at the precise moment when the swing returns you push again. This will take less energy to keep the swing going than your original push. However if you step forward from your position where you were pushing say directly under the swing. When the swing returns it will most likely knock you down. Then if you stay there and keep tyring to push the swing you use very much energy and your daughter will not have a very good time. You are then out of resonance.
Now RF is like swing back and forth like the swing in polarity. So finding the precise time to push it like the swing will take less energy and enhance it and keep it going with little energy. And any RF not in unison is like you in the middle of the swing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:50:57 AM
s
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 21, 2007, 08:14:18 AM
They seek him high, they seek him low, where in the world did Dr Stiffler go ?

rustle rustle . .. scurry scurry ... nope .. no Stifflers here ... hmmmm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 08:34:10 AM
They seek him high, they seek him low, where in the world did Dr Stiffler go ?

rustle rustle . .. scurry scurry ... nope .. no Stifflers here ... hmmmm

Rimes better if you leave the "Dr." out.
 Almost resonate.
I'm getting bad I have stop that.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 21, 2007, 09:16:36 AM
On a lighter side, I think that Dr Stiffler and DrZLowe7 are one and the same people but in a Dr Jakill and Mr Hyde sort of scenario.

How else would you explain such an odd choice of core for this experiment?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 09:24:51 AM
AhuraMazda:
I'm sure Stefan would of picked up on similar IPs, etc. if that was the case.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 21, 2007, 09:53:21 AM
Regardless of Dr. Stiffler's reasons for taking down the web site and videos, I would still like to thank him for what he did share with us, as this took both time and effort.
It's not easy being a trailblazer, and many  have had their new discoveries misunderstood, mocked, ridiculed and endlessly questioned.
And just as there are plenty of people out there who would blow out your candle, just to make their own look a little brighter, there are people willing to help shield your flame.
The secret , as in football, is to ignore attempted tricks of distraction, and keep focused on the goal.
So to Dr. Stiffler, this may be a tad premature, but I would like to say thanks, and Merry Christmas!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 21, 2007, 10:23:23 AM
Greetings:

I have been following this topic for a long time and I have to speak up.  I, like almost everyone on this forum, have hopes for "breakthrough" devices and keep an open mind for that.  Sorry to say that Dr. Stiffler follows the same thing I have seen here, time and time again.  Post something potentially wonderful....give some idea on how to replicate, and become very sensitive to any questions or criticisms of the device...then...disappear.

I have watched Stefan's videos and a few others.  These people were trying their best to replicate this device.  All they got was..."you don't have the right core, you are altering the experiment.." etc.  Then they get the "right" core and now it's "you missinterrperted my schematic, try again."  Then it's.."I'm out of here."

Think about this.  If Stefan, or most anyone else on here (including me) had something they thought was great but wanted to have replicated to be sure.  We would not release information on a "strip tease" basis.  We would welcome ANY question that might help someone to replicate, not get pissed at them.  Over in the Earth Battery's topic I posted a video of my experiment and welcomed anyone to replicate it.  If they have trouble, I will try to help.  It is not as complicated as this topic I will admit but, more the reason to be even more helpful if you want it to be replicated.  Face it, a Great Idea meant to be open source should be provided such that anyone can replicate it.  But wait, 6 people did but, we never heard from them.  Dr. Stiffler may be a genius, I am not making any judgment on that as this is not my field but, if it were me, I would have made sure that ALL of the serious replicators had what they needed as far as info, to do the job.  My 2.5 cents worth.  Guessing at items missing on the schematic, the type of core, as well as other components is NOT the way to go as far as I am concerned.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 21, 2007, 10:26:24 AM
Amigo:

I can understand how you would be agitated at people seemingly not thinking outside of the box..........

However, if i'm not mistaken, what we are searching for is a way to produce power seemingly out of thin air............

So, when somebody claims they've built an OU machine, the first thing they want to know is if it could possibly used to build that black box. This is why so many people are asking for numbers - if we have a single number which proves to us beyond all doubt that this device has a COP > 1, then what does at matter what other people think, orthodox or not? We have our black box, and we're happy at that..........

Tesla obviously had a brilliant imagination, and huge dreams. However, he wasn't averse to numbers. Indeed, without numbers, he never would have stood a chance.

In short, we want to disprove their RF hypothesis with their own numbers, so that we can keep dreaming.

Agreed Zaydana

Amigo, you are right in so many ways when you got up your soapbox, but I thought you were a little bit petulent in your judgements of "orthodox" science. Tesla, the very man we all hold in high respect, was a great man who excelled in "orthodox" science, and was also luckily graced with vision, intuition and wisdom. Those are personal traits, not something easily, if ever learned.

Tesla may have "visualised" his greatests inventions through "imagination", but his imaginings were fired and tempered by his great "orthodox" scientific reasoning.

Like I said, KneeDeep....... I hate numbers and calculations, but they are essential, not just to science, but to everyone, everyday of our lives!

Amigo, you are right in saying that this obsession with "closed loops" is a distraction.

You know I'm a skeptic, because I have openly said so, on numerous occasions. What I find surprising here, in this forum, is how many "believers" seem to proffer up the most inane observances followed by some brazen statement like "all we need to do now is close the loop from the output to the input and we have a self sustaining apparatus. Only then will we prove we have O/U". or "To be O/U, a machine must be self sustaining."

Statements like these in themselves are already "Orthodox" in their attempt to proscribe what "should be" as opposed to what "may" be or "is". Such statements seem to be borne from the obvious, but they can preclude the non-obvious!

As a skeptic, I want to be proved wrong, not just told I'm wrong!  As an active skeptic, KneeDeep, I have a strong passion in proving myself wrong! And believe me, I'm wrong a lot!   :D  , just ask my wife  :D

Keep asking the Questions Amigo, please try not to judge the rest of us toads too harshly, we're only frogs, I mean human. KneeDeep



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 10:52:48 AM
While I agree that Dr. Stiffler probably should have gone about discussing his device in a rather different way, I think the thing that so many people are missing with this circuit is that just because there is less measurable electricity running through the LEDs than being input into the circuit, doesn't mean that the circuit isn't overunity. That may be how traditionally you would measure such things, but it won't necessarily work if we are dealing with something non-traditional.

What really matters is the difference between the light emitted for a certain voltage/current signal with Dr. Stiffler's circuit, and the light emitted for the same voltage/current signal without it. Until somebody measures this difference, nobody is going to know just how the circuit stacks up to Dr. Stiffler's claims. And really, it doesn't matter what he claims in regards to what can be measured and what he achieves. What does matter is if what we observe the circuit doing.

I still haven't received my coils, probably due to the fact that i'm overseas and they'll take a while to ship. However, as soon as I do receive them, I'm going to make these measurements and post my results. But may I suggest that since it seems a few people have had some pretty decent light from the "Thomas Oscillator", somebody could run this test, so we can stop yabbering on about opinions and start talking results?

If this circuit has overunity as claimed, then i'd wager the key is that the LEDs are being powered by something new which we can't measure directly. However, knowing what amount of light the LEDs should emit without the new energy source allows us to indirectly measure how much energy is coming from the new source.

@Amigo - while you sound particularly averse to numbers, i'd say you'd be the prime candidate to try and make these measurements. You seem to have gotten pretty decent results, and if you could show that the LEDs are emitting light which isn't coming from the measured current * voltage, then it would go a long way to understanding what Tesla discovered a hundred years ago.

And if it turns out there is nothing and the numbers are all what current science predicts, then what the hell. At least we tried. And theres nothing stopping us from keeping on doing so.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 21, 2007, 11:25:44 AM
I already explained in my earlier posts if you want to see a massive improvement then you must allow for super regen quenching to the oscillator circuit at around 5kH (akin TPU technology) as this will raise the gain of the amplifier to about a million effectively raising the Q to over 10,000. The effect should be extraordinary because this old hat technique was used over 50 years ago to boost radio sensitivity. However you can not tap into the feedback loop of the cold electricity until you add a third dimension ie a TPU stack of 3 coils as all you will see at 1D level is an apparent gain which can not be tapped or even properly measured. I believe the current first level dimension shown here recently is very real but only slight and without taking it to the third dimension it will always be disproved as hoax.

I wanted to add that an amplifier oscillator with super regen is basically a cold negative resistor when the loop load is left open. The gain is only limited by the noise which in semiconductors is quite high thus SM suggested much better performance would be seen in tubes.

Most active devices only support negative resistance over a short operating range. Therefore, as the DC operating point shifts, there comes a point at which the active device cannot provide any more negative resistance. A normal oscillator will settle just below this operating point and provide constant oscillations. A relaxation system cannot, because it will have extra components added to prevent this. When the limit operating point is reached, the active device will ?starve? and oscillations will just stop. The only option left is to discharge the circuit to its original DC conditions before starting all over again.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 21, 2007, 11:28:09 AM
What really matters is the difference between the light emitted for a certain voltage/current signal with Dr. Stiffler's circuit, and the light emitted for the same voltage/current signal without it. ..........1

If this circuit has overunity as claimed, then i'd wager the key is that the LEDs are being powered by something new which we can't measure directly. However, knowing what amount of light the LEDs should emit without the new energy source allows us to indirectly measure how much energy is coming from the new source..........2

@Amigo - while you sound particularly averse to numbers, i'd say you'd be the prime candidate to try and make these measurements. You seem to have gotten pretty decent results, and if you could show that the LEDs are emitting light which isn't coming from the measured current * voltage, then it would go a long way to understanding what Tesla discovered a hundred years ago.........3

And if it turns out there is nothing and the numbers are all what current science predicts, then what the hell. At least we tried. And theres nothing stopping us from keeping on doing so............4

Above quote slightly edited

1 KneeDeep    2 KneeDeep   3 KneeDeep    4 KneeDeep........That's 4 yep I agree's from me........KneeDeep
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 21, 2007, 12:48:34 PM
Regardless of Dr. Stiffler's reasons for taking down the web site and videos, I would still like to thank him for what he did share with us, as this took both time and effort.
It's not easy being a trailblazer, and many  have had their new discoveries misunderstood, mocked, ridiculed and endlessly questioned.
And just as there are plenty of people out there who would blow out your candle, just to make their own look a little brighter, there are people willing to help shield your flame.
The secret , as in football, is to ignore attempted tricks of distraction, and keep focused on the goal.
So to Dr. Stiffler, this may be a tad premature, but I would like to say thanks, and Merry Christmas!


Hi All,

I keep an eye on the list, Email with Dr. Stiffler each day with ideas, test, etc.  My shock and surprise to see his site down, his videos missing from Youtube, etc. this morning.

 I have not Idea what is going on or his reasons for  he is his own man. I do realize that the number of "Armchair" engineers and the theories and comments would irritate anyone even if he had the hide of a rhinoceros!

 I came up with the simple blocking/Armstrong Osc. that he named the "Thomas Osc."  Just seemed to be simple enough and did what was needed.  The other simple Osc. is as good I think and was designed by Ossie in AU.  I have built probably 200 versions of this device, all sorts of low pass filters to measure/detect/quantify the output.  Working with what appears to be in its simplistic form RF, is difficult to measure accurately in the 0-2 watt range.  It is one thing to build what you think is a OU device, it is another thing to PROVE it.

There is a common thread here in all the OU circuits I have seen in the last 10-15 years.....the only problem seems to be in tying the Knot. 

I'm off to a Thanksgiving vacation till Sunday night here on the East Coast of the US.  I've closed the door on my 2X4 shop and am going to be a armchair engineer till then.  Good will to all and keep at it.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 21, 2007, 01:00:33 PM
Often the victim tries to defend the perpetrator of a crime ... strange I think .. but for some reason it comforts them to identify with their assailant ..

Thought for the day :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 21, 2007, 02:19:07 PM
Quote
I keep an eye on the list, Email with Dr. Stiffler each day with ideas, test, etc.  My shock and surprise to see his site down, his videos missing from Youtube, etc. this morning.
That was lucky, I saved the entire ce4 page on Monday night, so who wants a copy of the zipped up page with images (5Mb)?

@Zachary,
Parts have arrived OK - must have gone via the Antarctic.

I started the Thomas oscillator circuit last night on a small breadboard, should get it complete tonight so I will post pics.


Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on November 21, 2007, 02:25:32 PM
@Bolt,

I think your theory has merit, can you start a thread for this so we can explore this theory? maybe a few diagrams to go along with it? I think I have a visual of what you are saying but would like to explore this more. Just to say, I saw the same thing with the small torrid and was wondering if this was the oscillator and the large torrid was a air core transformer using the single wire method Stiffler was using.

Just to put my .02 in, a small experiment I performed was to wind 32ga magnet wire (about 200 turns) on a 1" PVC form and drive this with an old tube based audio signal generator (positive lead only). I also wrapped 10 turns of 18ga stranded hookup wire over this in a bifilar manner (all coils use the rh rule, all coils wound the same direction). it was noted that the 32ga coil produced a field (using frequencies in the audio spectrum), I noticed this when using a neo magnet near the coil to see if this affected operation, the magnet was actually affected, i.e. wants to orientate itself to the generated field when no actual return path was connected.

Anyhow, there is more here that requires exploration.

I found this interesting since the signal applied was basically audio (swept from about 5khz to about 200khz manually)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on November 21, 2007, 02:46:34 PM
  K4ZEP:
   You posted a schematic of this running many neon lights. Would you be willing to pass that one on?  I noticed it has a diode for each bulb so would like to see the schematic for what you have. Just started to get a handle on this and pow its gone.

   Catch you when you get back. Happy turkey day. Still may have to work it.

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 03:53:53 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 21, 2007, 04:08:51 PM
EMdevices:

While you may well be right, it doesn't hurt to give measuring Dr. Stiffler's claims a shot. If such things as cold electricity/radiant energy exist, we're not going to find them by explaining every circuit where they are claimed with conventional theory. And if they don't exist, it'll only help us understand how conventional electronics work. Its a win-win situation, really.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 21, 2007, 04:11:44 PM
Here is an explanation of Dr. Stiffler's absence from a poster on the Vortex list


Apparently he is away with his family for the Thanksgiving Holiday.

As a precaution against a DoS web attack on his server, which has
happened before, he has temporarily taken down the web page and videos
until next week when he returns.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tao on November 21, 2007, 04:21:23 PM
Guys,

Here's a schematic of the simple experiment to light LEDs with one wire.

Notice the stray capacitance.     

The beginner in electronics can't understand why you can conduct current with one wire, but it's because of this stray capacitance.   Ask yourself why current flows across a parallel plate capacitor, there IS NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE PLATES.  How can this happen?     It's the influence of the electric fields and the charges that accumulate and how they repell like charges and attract opposite charges.

Now that is not the whole story,  you realy need to understand EM fields and waves.   A single wire has a capacitance per unit length and an inductance per unit length.   It's a transmission line, and at certain frequencies, where the wavelength is just right it becomes a very effective ANTENNA. 

So, if you tune to a resonant frequency, even though you have one wire, you will increase the current flow, and yes, the LED's will light up with very little current !!!

In Summary:   POWER COMES FROM THE FREQUENCY GENERATOR

If it doesn't come from there, why don't you unplug and remove this extra useless electronic box and still keep those LED's lit    LOL  :)


EM


100% correct!

Exactly what I said in my post on page 9 of this thread: http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg55220.html#msg55220

Stiffler did do something with this, he replicated Avramenko's one wire transmission system, but certainly and hardly OU. OU can be had from Avramenko type setups, but you certainly can't prove such with a running function generator always hooked to the circuit, lol.

Nice drawing of the guy on the left too EMdevices, I like the graphic hehe
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 05:09:29 PM
If you have build the 'Thomas' oscillator and used an NPN as specified, try the following.

1)Run your existing circuit. Pay special attention to the heat given off by the transistor, the current drain and the maximum number of LEDS you can drive.

Lets say for example you are using a 2N3904 NPN hfe >=195

Switch to a PNP that is comparable, lets say a 2N2907, same ~hfe (if not a 2907) then one with bandwidth as good as the 3904.
Be sure to adjust the polarity of any filter capacitors you may be using, insure you have properly switched the power supply polarity.

2)Run the new configuration, which should be the same except for changing to a PNP. Watch and note the heat dissipation from the transistor, note the brightness of the LEDS and how many more you could add.

So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 05:54:18 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 05:56:41 PM
If you have build the 'Thomas' oscillator and used an NPN as specified, try the following.

1)Run your existing circuit. Pay special attention to the heat given off by the transistor, the current drain and the maximum number of LEDS you can drive.

Lets say for example you are using a 2N3904 NPN hfe >=195

Switch to a PNP that is comparable, lets say a 2N2907, same ~hfe (if not a 2907) then one with bandwidth as good as the 3904.
Be sure to adjust the polarity of any filter capacitors you may be using, insure you have properly switched the power supply polarity.

2)Run the new configuration, which should be the same except for changing to a PNP. Watch and note the heat dissipation from the transistor, note the brightness of the LEDS and how many more you could add.

So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???

Thanks for asking.
A similar PNP transistor to the 2N3904 is the 2N3906. A 2N2907 is rated to handle 5 times more current than the 2N3904.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 06:08:16 PM
If you have build the 'Thomas' oscillator and used an NPN as specified, try the following.

1)Run your existing circuit. Pay special attention to the heat given off by the transistor, the current drain and the maximum number of LEDS you can drive.

Lets say for example you are using a 2N3904 NPN hfe >=195

Switch to a PNP that is comparable, lets say a 2N2907, same ~hfe (if not a 2907) then one with bandwidth as good as the 3904.
Be sure to adjust the polarity of any filter capacitors you may be using, insure you have properly switched the power supply polarity.

2)Run the new configuration, which should be the same except for changing to a PNP. Watch and note the heat dissipation from the transistor, note the brightness of the LEDS and how many more you could add.

So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???

Thanks for asking.
A similar PNP transistor to the 2N3904 is the 2N3906. A 2N2907 is rated to handle 5 times more current than the 2N3904.
Thanks for he less than informative response. So what? This is far from my point. But your response is irrelevant. If you have built the circuit and tried what I suggest then report your scientific finding, not a spec sheet response.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 06:13:22 PM
RStiffler, 

I like the circuits discussed here, and it's realy nice to see light.    I appreciate all this QUALITATIVELY,  but we need QUANTITATIVE analysis to prove if it's OU.   If that's not the intent, then I guess we can continue to play with batteries and LEDs and make pretty light.

Now,  I am convinced the power comes from the battery, signal source, etc..  Untill I see quantitative results, I can't change my opinion.  Perhaps if I see a closed loop system without batteries then we won't need the quantitative results, maybe.

Have you observed anything unusual with the PNP instead of the NPN?

EM
Lets see you have built a circuit and need to known how to obtain QUANTITATIVE data? Its called measurement. Measure your circuit, is it a circuit I spec or one of the others that have measured OU? If not then what are you talking about.

See you do not accept data already presented, so what spoon feeding, how does someone like you become convinced. Like build and test, I'm not around to serve you, I owe you nothing. If you don't like what is going on, you know what is said, 'Don't look' then it will not bother you....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 06:23:38 PM
If you have build the 'Thomas' oscillator and used an NPN as specified, try the following.

1)Run your existing circuit. Pay special attention to the heat given off by the transistor, the current drain and the maximum number of LEDS you can drive.

Lets say for example you are using a 2N3904 NPN hfe >=195

Switch to a PNP that is comparable, lets say a 2N2907, same ~hfe (if not a 2907) then one with bandwidth as good as the 3904.
Be sure to adjust the polarity of any filter capacitors you may be using, insure you have properly switched the power supply polarity.

2)Run the new configuration, which should be the same except for changing to a PNP. Watch and note the heat dissipation from the transistor, note the brightness of the LEDS and how many more you could add.

So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???

Thanks for asking.
A similar PNP transistor to the 2N3904 is the 2N3906. A 2N2907 is rated to handle 5 times more current than the 2N3904.
Thanks for he less than informative response. So what? This is far from my point. But your response is irrelevant. If you have built the circuit and tried what I suggest then report your scientific finding, not a spec sheet response.

I thought you had left. So I started making postings again.
But how is replacing a low current small single device transistor with a medium power transistor not relevant? Please explain.
Buy the way results you get from the Thomson circuit according to You "DOES NOT MATTER" as you plainly stated in a rebuke to someone else using under 3.5MHz that they were wasting there time the frequencies had to be over 3.5MHz to get the effect or do not waste there time. So what is it above 3.5 MHz or any where from 1MHz to infinity.
If you keep talking enough you will hang yourself.
An how can you claim overunity if you yourself say the effect can not be measured using conventional means. Where are getting numbers from if not by conventional means? Are you making assumptions?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 21, 2007, 06:30:43 PM
So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???

*) Every transistor is different as long as it isn?t physical on the same die
*) This is the reason for using negative feedback
*) even npn-pnp pairs show a slightly higher forward voltage (pnp) ...
*) you can use similar methods for calculation but pnp is pnp and npn is npn
*) if it comes to rf you should use transistors with similar s-params (....),
B, Beta and bandwith are of no use here.
*) If you want to have the same operation with another transistor - you have to
adjust the dc operating point in a way that you have the same complex impedances
at input and output and the same complex gain ....
Swapping the output transistor of an rf amp to a different type never works.
You have to match it again.
*) using neg. feedback and design well matched to special transistor - is the
way how its possible to "duplicate" rf circuits.

*) telephone lines are operated with one grounded and one negative (resp. ground)
   wire. It makes a difference if the none grounded wire is positive or
   negative in respect to ground.

I think this is the point where we should try to generate retro-fit spice models....
Then we can compare the operation of the spice circuit against the real circuit.



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 21, 2007, 06:35:44 PM
@DrZlowe7

Clearly you want to disprove DrStiffler. In your case you have a store full of the cores and more than likely, the rest of the components.

It will take less than an hour to do the whole thing.

I look forward to your findings!

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 06:45:34 PM
@DrZlowe7

Clearly you want to disprove DrStiffler. In your case you have a store full of the cores and more than likely, the rest of the components.

It will take less than an hour to do the whole thing.

I look forward to your findings!

AM
I do want to disprove him just have him prove his claims. If I just see senseable math from him that is all it will take. If he was not so arrogant I would just go away. I just do like arrogant people maybe a little personalty conflit going on here.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 21, 2007, 06:59:06 PM
So with all the theory being expounded in this thread about RF theory and how common these circuits, please point me to why there may be a difference in NPN versus PNP for the oscillator???

*) telephone lines are operated with one grounded and one negative (resp. ground)
   wire. It makes a difference if the none grounded wire is positive or
   negative in respect to ground.

If you change the concept of npn vs. pnp on an asymmetric circuit (yes this one is asymmetric),
you have to change the reference plane (ground plane).
You need a "grounded" positive reference plane and a none grounded negative supply.
-> The impedance of the involved lines as well as their parasitary coupling against whatever
-> have to be complementary.

If you pick up the receiver of an analog phone line you force the negative wire to almost grounded
state with now 2 wires relatively grounded. Being grounded means that both wires have lower impedance
in respect to ground - less chance to pick up noise from the enviroment.

....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 07:02:41 PM
Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?

No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!

Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.

Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts

Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW

MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 07:14:57 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 21, 2007, 07:15:42 PM
@Dr. Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 07:24:59 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:25:24 PM
Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?

No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!

Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.

Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts

Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW

MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!

What? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unity
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 07:31:49 PM
Very good Stiffler,   not bad.   So you're claiming OU after all.

Now,  how did you measure the Output Power.

1)   How did you get the 3 Volt drop,   from the Spec sheet?    Not a good idea,  it varies with the current.

2)   How did you measure the current, [edit]   Oh I see in the picture, never mind.  I have to analyze it a bit...

You don't have to answer, you don't owe us anything   LOL   :)

EM
Your a very funny person...........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 07:34:18 PM
Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?

No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!

Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.

Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts

Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW

MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!

What? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unity
Maybe your using AC, I'm not.............
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:34:57 PM
Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?

No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!

Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.

Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts

Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW

MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!
What Wattage = Volts X Current. Not Voltage drop X current. You say you are getting around 200 volts so 200 volts - voltage drop = 197 volts. 197 X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. Now because you are using AC to drive the LED's they are on 50% of time and off 50% of the time. So divide your results buy 2 = 847mw You now have a loss 89mw. Not over but under unity.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: terry1094 on November 21, 2007, 07:35:24 PM
From a poster on Vortex who is in contact with Dr. Stiffler:

<><><><><><><>

Not the MIB this time ;-)

Apparently he is away with his family for the Thanksgiving Holiday.

As a precaution against a DoS web attack on his server, which has
happened before, he has temporarily taken down the web page and videos
until next week when he returns.

Have a trustworthy turkey-day, all:

http://www.technologyreview.com/Biotech/19741/?nlid=680

<end quote>

Mystery solved.  For our friends in Europe and elsewhere, try some turkey tomorrow!

Terry
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 07:40:30 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 21, 2007, 07:40:59 PM
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW
MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!

Well,

I would expect the tolerance of a multimeter operating in mV range
to be +-5 digits(6% here). Additional you have the contact voltage with the tips, etc...(2%)
Additional 5% resistor tolerance. ->7,53mA ->9,76mA.
52 Leds with Voltage 2.8 - 3.1 give a range from 145,6 to 161.2.
Worst case so far (and my estimations are "nice") 1573.3mW -  1096,4mW

If I estimate the tolerance of your power supply with 10% for the voltage
and 20% for the current reading we got: 1184,0 mW - 716.04 mW

This gives a possible efficiency range from 0.93 to 2.2.
Slightly uncertain result.

BTW:

Do you think you can measure RMS with a resistor, 2 beads and a cap ?
Better using the beads and the caps right at the huge 10u cap.
Makes more sense there - and looks more (dont know how to say that).

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:43:49 PM
Prove to you? Who are you? What would YOU ever accept as proof?

No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!

Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.

Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts

Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW

MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!

What? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unity
Maybe your using AC, I'm not.............
You do not call RF AC. The RF is rectified buy diodes pulsating DC still on 50% off 50%. If you put the capacitor back in to produce DC then why jump on others who wanted to do this saying it will not give accurate results. My last post got posted twice my computer gave an error message so I re wrote it and sent it again. Sorry
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 07:47:26 PM
Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.

NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!

You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.

But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.

SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?

So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.

Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.

I'll be back.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 07:47:44 PM
Well, it looks good,  I like what I'm seeing,  my only doubt is the 3V assumption (or is it)

I can see the 10 uF cap, so it shouldn't be hard to measure the DC voltage on it and multiply by the current.
 

EM
Never mind the 3 volt voltage drop. 3 X .0086 still does not equal over 1 watt.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on November 21, 2007, 07:50:09 PM
Dr. Stiffler wrote: -

"Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.

Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts

Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW

MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!"


I'm a bit confused here. The meter is showing 8.6V not 8.6mA.

Hoppy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 07:56:39 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 08:02:03 PM
Everyone ,  just STOP

Some of you are making silly comments and apparently don't know much about electronics.  It's wise not to post and just watch.   You annoy me and Dr Stiffler.  We are trying to carry on an intelligent converstion here.

Dr Stiffler,  I agree with you on energy.  I hold the same views.   When I say OU I mean to our small "apparently" closed system or circuit.   Energy will come from somewhere, can not be created or distroyed.

I hope you answer my one question:       Is the 3 Volt drop per diode an assumption or not?  

EM

***3 Volt drop per diode an assumption or not?
In part, its an extrapolation based upon physical measurement across a reference 10 LEDS in the series string. The values varied from 2.97 to 3.05.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 08:05:20 PM
Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.

NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!

You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.

But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.

SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?

So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.

Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.

I'll be back.
Not bashing you only question you but your own photo's show the resistor is in series with all the other LED's you are not measuring the current through 1 LED but the total used buy them all. So do not multiply .0086 X 52 to figure wattage. Am I the only one that really looks at these things.
Not calming OU you have stated time and time again "I have OU"
@EMdevices
Look closely at the photos you will see the resistor is not across only one LED but is in series with them all.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 08:06:02 PM
Dr. Stiffler wrote: -

"Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.

Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts

Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW

MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!"


I'm a bit confused here. The meter is showing 8.6V not 8.6mA.

Hoppy

Hoppy you need glasses, use your viewer magnification and you will in the right hand side of the meter see it is mV, millivolts..................
If you looked at the picture you would see it was across a 1ohm resistor.
Hoppy if it were 8.6 volts that would be 8.6A, oh how that would be great.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 08:07:54 PM
Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.

NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!

You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.

But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.

SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?

So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.

Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.

I'll be back.
Not bashing you only question you but your own photo's show the resistor is in series with all the other LED's you are not measuring the current through 1 LED but the total used buy them all. So do not multiply .0086 X 52 to figure wattage. Am I the only one that really looks at these things.
Not calming OU you have stated time and time again "I have OU"
@EMdevices
Look closely at the photos you will see the resistor is not across only one LED but is in series with them all.
Get a better life.........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 08:09:10 PM
Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.

NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!

You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.

But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.

SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?

So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.

Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.

I'll be back.
Not bashing you only question you but your own photo's show the resistor is in series with all the other LED's you are not measuring the current through 1 LED but the total used buy them all. So do not multiply .0086 X 52 to figure wattage. Am I the only one that really looks at these things.
Not calming OU you have stated time and time again "I have OU"
@EMdevices
Look closely at the photos you will see the resistor is not across only one LED but is in series with them all.
Get a better life.........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 08:15:52 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 08:16:52 PM
Here we go again, for what now the 10th year and pages and pages on this thread.

NO I AM NOT CLAIMING OU!!!
IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!

You can not create or destroy energy. YES! I DO BELIEVE THIS.

But you can tap other forms that are not currently understood or utilized.

SO WHAT IS SO HARD HERE?

So if you can not climb out of your boxes and for a split second be open minded and look beyond you bank account (in case your getting paid to bash me) or beyond the trail of follows you might need to prove self worth, then I will not change you, AND YOU WILL NOT CHANGE ME.

Its a take it or leave it, bash me and I am now going to come right back. Guess when Hartmann closes this thing from the worthless banter, them the detractors will be smug and happy. But I will not back down, so those that are working towards something better might get a bit of help.

I'll be back.
Not bashing you only question you but your own photo's show the resistor is in series with all the other LED's you are not measuring the current through 1 LED but the total used buy them all. So do not multiply .0086 X 52 to figure wattage. Am I the only one that really looks at these things.
Not calming OU you have stated time and time again "I have OU"
@EMdevices
Look closely at the photos you will see the resistor is not across only one LED but is in series with them all.
Get a better life.........
So you can not refute what I am saying. I thought you said you would come wright back at me. Is the resistor not in series with all the other LEDs. I just pointed out what I thought was in error. The capacitor will produce DC you are correct you are measuring DC.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 08:26:31 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 08:27:20 PM
Ok, thank you,  then that's encouraging.    Assumptions are nothing bad as long as they're applicable and reasonable.


The break even point for OU in this case would be:

Vdiode =  0.936 watts / (8.6 mA x 52)  =  2.09

So you're assumption is well above this breakeven voltage drop / diode.      I would say you have something significant.

But to be sure, I would measure the DC voltage at the 10 uF capacitor.   If there is quite an AC ripple on it, I would filter the heck out of it with ferrites and include another capacitor if I have to. 

In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there.  I'm not insinuating your assumptions are not correct, don't missunderstand, I'm just trying to be carefull when it comes to excess energy measurements.   I made claims like this before and I later retracted.  Hopefully you won't have too.  I hope not.

EM


I have and will explain;
Across the 10uf, which may also include a 0.01uf and a 0.1uf just to be a crowd pleaser, the Z is the highest and there is an amount of RF that passes thru the diodes enough to upset DVM so I filter and measure with an analog with 20k/v loading. The reading across the 10uf reads 147.?V. To be what my numbers say it should read 156V, but I'll live with this. Also the 1 ohm sample resistor is on purpose inserted in mid string, I'm sure you know why.

@fritz
Pretty good there, getting close aren't you....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 08:41:16 PM
Ok, thank you,  then that's encouraging.    Assumptions are nothing bad as long as they're applicable and reasonable.


The break even point for OU in this case would be:

Vdiode =  0.936 watts / (8.6 mA x 52)  =  2.09

So you're assumption is well above this breakeven voltage drop / diode.      I would say you have something significant.

But to be sure, I would measure the DC voltage at the 10 uF capacitor.   If there is quite an AC ripple on it, I would filter the heck out of it with ferrites and include another capacitor if I have to. 

In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there.  I'm not insinuating your assumptions are not correct, don't missunderstand, I'm just trying to be carefull when it comes to excess energy measurements.   I made claims like this before and I later retracted.  Hopefully you won't have too.  I hope not.

EM


His LED's are connected in series. If I have 200 volts and place say 20 LED's in series and for math purposes let say each LED has a voltage drop of 2 volts. The voltage drop only changes the 200 volts to now 160 volts for doing equations. So we now have 160 volts with .0086 current going through the all the LED's remember series here. Again Wattage is the total voltage 160 volts X .0086 total current . Again look close at his pictures the resistor is checking total current through all the LED's as the LED's and resistor are in series. If the LED's were parallel as you drew in your versions of the schematic then you would multiply current X 52.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 08:51:07 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 21, 2007, 08:57:16 PM
...
Measuring with 100Ohm series resistor would give a nice voltage
reading for our load current. The additional 860mV wont harm the
result because of the current source role of the circuit at this position.
Adding beads at the 10u cap and additional 470n ceramics would give
me the feeling of nice DC loop here.
Calculating the output power as voltage on 10u Cap (- voltage reading on
series shunt) * load current would give me a comfortable feeling.
Measuring the exact resistance of the load shunt with an LCR meter is
a 3 second effort. Same as measuring the load/voltage from the supply
with some trustworthy instrument.

So what is the exact efficency ration of the circuit ?????

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 08:59:28 PM
DRZ,  are you on another wavelegth?

I can see what he is doing clearly and I understand.   I suggest you study the drawings a bit and make yourself a circuit after them.

You might be confused about series and parallel.

He has the LED's in SERIES.   So if each has an assumed 3 Volts drop across them how much of a voltage drop will 52  SERIES connected diodes have?     

Let's do the math    3 + 3 + 3 + ....+ 3 +3 .... + 3   =  52 x 3 =  156 Volts    Got it?

Now the current running through all the diodes is  8.6 mA,   Got it?

So   Power out is    156 Volts x  8.6 mA = 1.34 watts    Got it?

This will be the last time I will walk you by the hand.   And this goes for anybody else that's building up courage and joining in the perceived bashing of Dr Stiffler.   It's one thing to ask intelligent questions and another to be plain silly.

EM
EXCELLENT!

We can carry on a dialog......

Teach me how to ignore, 'well you know' and things may move faster, Yes?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 09:03:26 PM
...
Measuring with 100Ohm series resistor would give a nice voltage
reading for our load current. The additional 860mV wont harm the
result because of the current source role of the circuit at this position.
Adding beads at the 10u cap and additional 470n ceramics would give
me the feeling of nice DC loop here.
Calculating the output power as voltage on 10u Cap (- voltage reading on
series shunt) * load current would give me a comfortable feeling.
Measuring the exact resistance of the load shunt with an LCR meter is
a 3 second effort. Same as measuring the load/voltage from the supply
with some trustworthy instrument.

So what is the exact efficency ration of the circuit ?????


So Fritz, why don't you take three minutes and get back to us? I have my path charted and it does not include personal requests. I think I must have a great amount of faith in myself to go through this, so help out here and get us a few measurements if your not comfortable????
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 09:04:07 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 09:07:39 PM
DRZ,  are you on another wavelegth?

I can see what he is doing clearly and I understand.   I suggest you study the drawings a bit and make yourself a circuit after them.

You might be confused about series and parallel.

He has the LED's in SERIES.   So if each has an assumed 3 Volts drop across them how much of a voltage drop will 52  SERIES connected diodes have?     

Let's do the math    3 + 3 + 3 + ....+ 3 +3 .... + 3   =  52 x 3 =  156 Volts    Got it?

Now the current running through all the diodes is  8.6 mA,   Got it?

So   Power out is    156 Volts x  8.6 mA = 1.34 watts    Got it?

This will be the last time I will walk you by the hand.   And this goes for anybody else that's building up courage and joining in the perceived bashing of Dr Stiffler.   It's one thing to ask intelligent questions and another to be plain silly.

EM
I did not see this post. You inserted it before my last post. Or I would have not sent you a message.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 09:10:58 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 09:16:42 PM
Ok, thank you,  then that's encouraging.    Assumptions are nothing bad as long as they're applicable and reasonable.


The break even point for OU in this case would be:

Vdiode =  0.936 watts / (8.6 mA x 52)  =  2.09 Volts

So you're assumption is well above this breakeven voltage drop / diode.      I would say you have something significant.

But to be sure, I would measure the DC voltage at the 10 uF capacitor.   If there is quite an AC ripple on it, I would filter the heck out of it with ferrites and include another capacitor if I have to. 

In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there.  I'm not insinuating your assumptions are not correct, don't missunderstand, I'm just trying to be carefull when it comes to excess energy measurements.   I made claims like this before and I later retracted.  Hopefully you won't have too.  I hope not.

EM


**
In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there.

Agree, sorry I'm not where I can pull up the information, but there exist on the web a couple of papers on LEDS and frequency response. Of the two I am thinking of they are 100% opposed. One states that the eye sees a brighter LED when it is excited by RF vs. DC. The other paper says that is false, that as the frequency goes up it approaches DC closer, therefore DC will produce the maximum brightness.

I have worked with Red LEDS that will glow with currents I can not measure and flashed white LEDS from picking up 60Hz AC on a long wire. So indeed you have a valid point. Although you would be asking me to ignore my understanding and trust for my instrumentation much the same as I am asking an academic to look out of the box at my work. I feel comfortable with my measurements, even though there most likely exists 500k others that do not. So be it, what can one do?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 21, 2007, 09:24:08 PM
So Fritz, why don't you take three minutes and get back to us? I have my path charted and it does not include personal requests. I think I must have a great amount of faith in myself to go through this, so help out here and get us a few measurements if your not comfortable????

Sorry,

Will check out my ebay Vectorscope and the nice piezos I got today
and hide away in my lab.

rgds, good luck.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 21, 2007, 09:26:49 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 09:46:45 PM
I wonder if the LEDs can be replaced with an equivalent resistor.

assuming 150 Volts across the 10 uF cap.  Then we calculate R :

     R = 150 volts / 8.6 mA = 17.4 K ohm

If this gives the same results, supper, if not, it might be some LED dynamics that we might not fully understand.

Can you draw a detailed schematic of your circuit?   Is it the basic Thomas oscillator you had on your web page?

EM
LEDS, sometime in the hopefully near future with equipment better than mine for thermal measurement will confirm or deny my meager observation. But if you look at www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp at the bottom of the page, you may see what I am talking about and I will not bother to go further than to state that the LEDS appear to be "Thermal Neutral".

A resistor can be connected across the circuit in place of the LEDS and the measurements are very favorable and equivalent heat is evident. There is another approach that I worked on before leaving for the holidays, yet there is an issue of will the person making the suggestion accept the credit, as I can not and can not discuss it until this is resolved. But a better method than the resistor does exist where the out come is significant.

The osc. is the 'Thomas' osc and it uses a PN200 transistor. There is a startup resistor of 220K from the collector to the base. The collector end of the standard coil arrangement is coupled to the base through a 56pF Silver Mica. Thats it except for the standard power rail decoupling.

CAUTION! Every one should use care with these circuits, they can bite and STILL will for no reason burn out significant numbers of LEDS. When using filter caps across the Plug, never remove or add or break the series chain until you have carefully removed the capacitor and discharged it. Other wise bye, bye LEDS.

ATTENTION ALL!

These circuits have been on circuit boards for some 5 days now, in various configurations and work BETTER than on the proto-board with all its stray capacity.

**If you can not get to my web sites its because their DNS was lost when they were shut down by mistake. The pointer returned to the host. DNS replication can take up to 72 hours world wide.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 21, 2007, 10:13:18 PM

@DrStiffler,

Please can you describe what you are showing in the first picture in your document.
I guess this is the philosophy behind your thinking.

Regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 10:19:58 PM

@DrStiffler,

Please can you describe what you are showing in the first picture in your document.
I guess this is the philosophy behind your thinking.

Regards

AM

What?

What document and what picture does your question make reference to?

**I guess this is the philosophy behind your thinking.

Sorry but What? Would that not be nice to put a philosophy in a picture.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 21, 2007, 10:51:16 PM
This one!

http://67.76.235.52/images/sec002.gif
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 21, 2007, 11:34:45 PM
Ok, thank you,  then that's encouraging.    Assumptions are nothing bad as long as they're applicable and reasonable.


The break even point for OU in this case would be:

Vdiode =  0.936 watts / (8.6 mA x 52)  =  2.09 Volts

So you're assumption is well above this breakeven voltage drop / diode.      I would say you have something significant.

But to be sure, I would measure the DC voltage at the 10 uF capacitor.   If there is quite an AC ripple on it, I would filter the heck out of it with ferrites and include another capacitor if I have to. 

In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there.  I'm not insinuating your assumptions are not correct, don't missunderstand, I'm just trying to be carefull when it comes to excess energy measurements.   I made claims like this before and I later retracted.  Hopefully you won't have too.  I hope not.

EM


**
In my previous experimentation, I noticed typical LEDs give out quite a bit of light starting at 1.9 Volts and only get brighter from there.

Agree, sorry I'm not where I can pull up the information, but there exist on the web a couple of papers on LEDS and frequency response. Of the two I am thinking of they are 100% opposed. One states that the eye sees a brighter LED when it is excited by RF vs. DC. The other paper says that is false, that as the frequency goes up it approaches DC closer, therefore DC will produce the maximum brightness.

I have worked with Red LEDS that will glow with currents I can not measure and flashed white LEDS from picking up 60Hz AC on a long wire. So indeed you have a valid point. Although you would be asking me to ignore my understanding and trust for my instrumentation much the same as I am asking an academic to look out of the box at my work. I feel comfortable with my measurements, even though there most likely exists 500k others that do not. So be it, what can one do?


I am sorry. Instead of reasoning on your math I made wrong conclusions. Some times my mouth goes faster than my brain when I think I am wright. I become more interested in proving my point. Maybe human nature or at least mine. You did try to explain your results to me and thanks. It is good however you seem a little more open now with your discussions.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 21, 2007, 11:52:52 PM
This one!

Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish  'SEC'

Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.

Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.

Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 21, 2007, 11:58:13 PM
My blue LEDs have voltage drop of around 2.4 Volts per LED.
I get 24 Volts Pure DC at my 22 uF cap with no Rple at all. But my current is much smaller, less than 1 mA.
But I will built up now a better oscillator and post the results soon.
Have also to use the uptransforming voltage effect of the 2 coils on the ferrite core, so I will get a higher voltage on the LED chain...
By the way, 2.8 Volts drop on a white LED sounds right to me, so I trust in Ron?s measurements.
You already have almost pure DC on the LED chain after the 2 AP diodes also without a big cap measured with my scope, so the LEDs and the connector board capacitance seems to be enough stray capacitance for this.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 22, 2007, 12:06:56 AM
@Ron,
Thank you for the reply and image removed!

Regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 22, 2007, 12:26:05 AM
This one!

Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish  'SEC'

Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.

Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.

Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 22, 2007, 12:34:39 AM
My blue LEDs have voltage drop of around 2.4 Volts per LED.
I get 24 Volts Pure DC at my 22 uF cap with no Rple at all. But my current is much smaller, less than 1 mA.
But I will built up now a better oscillator and post the results soon.
Have also to use the uptransforming voltage effect of the 2 coils on the ferrite core, so I will get a higher voltage on the LED chain...
By the way, 2.8 Volts drop on a white LED sounds right to me, so I trust in Ron?s measurements.
You already have almost pure DC on the LED chain after the 2 AP diodes also without a big cap measured with my scope, so the LEDs and the connector board capacitance seems to be enough stray capacitance for this.
Regards, Stefan.
Stefan!
Look back a couple of comments I made to EMDevices, all you need is one resistor, one cap and one transistor. Use the 'Thomas' design and leave off the cap from the base to ground.The start resistor can either go to V+ or to the collector. Depending on what transistor you use, start at ~56pf for the feedback cap. the value of this cap has only a very small effect on frequency. Frequency will self center, you do not adjust it. Of course all this is only of you are using the standard antenna coil with 9-10T over the top. With 12V supply and good transistor you should have little problem getting 150V. Don't overload the Plug with huge caps, this is self defeating.

You of course can do what you want, but adding additional coils will reduce your result. The small inner winding capacity of the coils that comes with the core just happens to be the best so far. Many that have duplicated this device have tried winding new coils and as far as I know, all fail to show SEC.

I will no longer use the misleading term OU. For me I will always now refer to it as SEC.

Good Luck, please give this way a shot and let me know?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 22, 2007, 12:38:04 AM
This one!

Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish  'SEC'

Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.

Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.

Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.

Copyright (c) 2007 Stiffler Scientific. All rights reserved.
Copying of this material is strictly forbidden.
Violation of these Copyrights will be enforced.

Don't know how much clearer this can be?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 22, 2007, 12:54:15 AM
This one!

Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish  'SEC'

Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.

Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.

Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.

Copyright (c) 2007 Stiffler Scientific. All rights reserved.
Copying of this material is strictly forbidden.
Violation of these Copyrights will be enforced.

Don't know how much clearer this can be?
I just said I never noticed it. And said I was Sorry for not. The schematic was only resent to person who posted it. It is your sarcastic replies that ticked me of at you in first place. Can you not just take an I am sorry. Resending copyrighted material back to original sender is not in violation of the law. I am tyring to apologize . And make up.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 22, 2007, 01:08:40 AM
This one!

Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish  'SEC'

Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.

Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.

Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.

Copyright (c) 2007 Stiffler Scientific. All rights reserved.
Copying of this material is strictly forbidden.
Violation of these Copyrights will be enforced.

Don't know how much clearer this can be?
I just said I never noticed it. And said I was Sorry for not. The schematic was only resent to person who posted it. It is your sarcastic replies that ticked me of at you in first place. Can you not just take an I am sorry. Resending copyrighted material back to original sender is not in violation of the law. I am tyring to apologize . And make up.

By all means you apology is accepted. Strange though as it turns out I was not even referring to you on this issue, it was the image of SEC that AM posted. So you must have got it confused and I followed.

**It is your sarcastic replies
I treat how I'm treated. Respect get respect does it not, yet who starts first?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 22, 2007, 01:24:08 AM

No let me show yo a couple of pictures and some very simple math, then we all can listen to what you say is not proof yet. Like did not do this or that, or need to do something else, or faked something, or where are the scope shots. REALLY!!!!

Here is a typical running circuit containing 52 white LEDS.
Now lets see;
52 LED x 0.0086 Series current x 3 volt drop = 1.342 watts
Now difficult, input is 12 volts at 0.078ma = 936mW

MUST BE A REAL MEASUREMENT ERROR HERE!!!

Whether O/U or not, (I'm not here to argue) the pictures and measurements you posted are very impressive!
Great Stuff Dr Stiffler!

KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 22, 2007, 01:40:24 AM
This one!

Yes! Now I understand. In reality about all I hope to gain out of all this is to be able to publish a paper 'Spatial Energy Coherence' which is indeed my view of what is going on here. If I can in some way get people to stop jumping on me as some kook, when it all is resolved I just may be able to find someone that will publish  'SEC'

Very, very simply put, the interface is capacitive and all matter is surrounded by unlimited amounts of energy in different forms. With a proper interface some of this energy can be cohered.

Maybe as time goes on I may add to this, but would prefer to leave it for a paper, and by that time I could be shown to be wrong in my view. Time and additional duplications will I hope clear it up one way or another.

Sorry I did not understand at first and do wish you would have respected the Copyrights......
The schematic that was posted I got from this forum. Not your web site and sent it in a private email that got posted. I was not copying direct information from your site and I did not know at that time the information was copyrighted. As I never seen an copywright discloser on the schematic or should I say picture. Sorry again. If there was a discloser sorry I did not notice it.

Copyright (c) 2007 Stiffler Scientific. All rights reserved.
Copying of this material is strictly forbidden.
Violation of these Copyrights will be enforced.

Don't know how much clearer this can be?
I just said I never noticed it. And said I was Sorry for not. The schematic was only resent to person who posted it. It is your sarcastic replies that ticked me of at you in first place. Can you not just take an I am sorry. Resending copyrighted material back to original sender is not in violation of the law. I am tyring to apologize . And make up.

By all means you apology is accepted. Strange though as it turns out I was not even referring to you on this issue, it was the image of SEC that AM posted. So you must have got it confused and I followed.

**It is your sarcastic replies
I treat how I'm treated. Respect get respect does it not, yet who starts first?
OK I am sorry again. We keep getting our wires crossed. No pun intended. However I thought you were replying to me as I was quoted. Buy the way the schematic I was referring to is posted on posting page 36. I just thought you were commenting to me. After my groveling and apologizing the statement I though was a rude reply. Again Sorry, Sorry. I will not be bothering you anymore. As I kind of had a vendetta against you I jess I just get irritated to easy. Good luck with your research I wish you the best.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: utilitarian on November 22, 2007, 01:52:38 AM
I think I am a late to this party, and maybe someone already mentioned this, but why bother with 50 LED?  Just use 1 LED and plug the rest of the output into the input, and then you will know for sure if it is overunity or not.  "How?" you may ask.  Well, if the light never goes off, then you have overunity.  On the other hand, if at somepoint in the experiment the LED goes off, i.e. there is no more "juice", as electricians call it, then the device is probably not overunity.

I am not an electical engineer or even an electrician, but that seems like a good next move, so that people would quit quarreling over the overunity thing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 22, 2007, 02:07:19 AM
My gosh seven pages of postings in one day, you all have really outdone yourself, and it's nice to see doc stiffler is back as well. :)

Sadly after reading all seven pages, it seems that we still want to crawl on all four instead of soar high above. And should I even mention the one liner posts from the village idiot who chimes in from time to time in an attempt of disrupting any meaningful conversation. ::)

These are not judgments, just my honest observations, I'm entitled to my own opinion, no? :)

In any case, the whole argument appears to now be gravitating around O/U or no O/U in SEC circuit because we are back to the silly game of adding and deducting numbers. To be honest, the term O/U should be outlawed altogether because it's grounded in the old ways of closed-loop thinking, but how do you do that on a site that's called Overunity. :)

It is clearly evident that very few people are really interested in dropping the "old ways" in favour of something radically new. You cling to the old education and experience and it's as sad as Edison clinging to the DC power grid system at the overwhelming superiority of the AC. Ironically though, Tesla himself dropped the AC in favour of pulsed DC - now how's that for a twist. Perhaps something happens here, too (but I'm not holding my breath).

What we need is more women in here because they will bring the intuition - something that many men apparently lack, or are unwilling (too proud or plain dumb and ignorant) to explore/utilize.

Fire at will...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 22, 2007, 02:17:10 AM
@ Dr Stiffler
In the hopes of fostering reproducibility, I have created a printed circuit board artwork file based on your Thomas Oscillator circuit.  With your approval, I would like to release the file to members of this forum, preferably, from your web site. I will be happy to mark the design with any copyright information you think is appropriate. I have already marked it for "non commercial use only"  Just let me know if, and where to send the file. 
This PCB file could be emailed to one of many On-Line board fabricators like www.expresspcb.com, or for people who like to make their own, the file can be laser printed onto special ink jet paper, and ironed directly onto a copper clad board. Also, the design is not set in stone, so based on inputs from yourself and forum members, I will be willing to make various edits and changes as time permits.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: utilitarian on November 22, 2007, 02:21:36 AM
It is clearly evident that very few people are really interested in dropping the "old ways" in favour of something radically new. You cling to the old education and experience and it's as sad as Edison clinging to the DC power grid system at the overwhelming superiority of the AC. Ironically though, Tesla himself dropped the AC in favour of pulsed DC - now how's that for a twist. Perhaps something happens here, too (but I'm not holding my breath).

What we need is more women in here because they will bring the intuition - something that many men apparently lack, or are unwilling (too proud or plain dumb and ignorant) to explore/utilize.

Fire at will...

Well if you want more women, Stefan will have to offer more diverse shopping.  Right now it's just magnet toys and stuff.  From my experience with women, they are not interested in that.

But back to what you said, could you elaborate on the "radically new" part?  What do you propose?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 22, 2007, 02:39:44 AM
@utilitarian:

There are quite a few reasons that doing that isn't quite as good idea as it initially seems.

For a start, connecting the output wires to the input wires would be closing the circuit, which from my limited understanding is a Bad Thing (tm) with these sorts of alternative energy circuits. Closing the circuit, in Tom Bearden's words, "Kills the dipole".

Secondly, because of the efficiency of components in the circuit, this device would need to have a COP much higher than just 1 to be able to use something like a solar panel to close the circuit. From the numbers that Dr. Stiffler recently posted, the circuit does have a COP > 1, but would likely not be self powering.

And lastly, and I could be wrong on this one, even if closing the circuit wasn't an inherently bad idea with this type of claim, its not as simple as just connecting the output wires to the input wires. There is quite a bit of extra circuitry you need to get it working.

This may be a bit hypocritical since I haven't got my coils yet and thus can't replicate it myself, but I really urge people to stop making suggestions for changing the circuit unless they have built it themselves. It really kills the conversation.


@Dr. Stiffler:

I must ask your opinion on asking for numbers, measurements, etc. Amigo, who seems to have made a lot of progress, seems fairly insistent that we drop the "Old Ways". Now, I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), but it seems to me that you don't have a problem with using numbers and equations, so long as they agree with your observations? The key being that traditionally people would claim that something is impossible if the numbers are too far removed from predictions, but you'd rather state that the numbers are wrong, and what is in front of you is obviously correct?

Forgive me if it sounds like an attack, but really all I'm trying to do is figure out what is acceptable use of current theories, and what is going to get people riled up. Obviously existing models must have some merit under certain situations, or we wouldn't have the internet to discuss these things. But I think we can all agree these models are not perfect.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 22, 2007, 02:46:05 AM
Well if you want more women, Stefan will have to offer more diverse shopping.  Right now it's just magnet toys and stuff.  From my experience with women, they are not interested in that.

But back to what you said, could you elaborate on the "radically new" part?  What do you propose?
I see a new face here, welcome aboard !

I know most women would be hard to attract to these kinds of subjects, but there must be a few out there. After all we share the world with them as equal partners and should try to make them participants in all things, especially when they concern our collective future. ;)

Radically new would imply for starters no closed loops. Nature is not a closed loop and so we shouldn't be pissing up-wind (or you know what happens). I suppose closed loop systems have been invented because they were convenient or easy or people at the time thought Nature worked that way or for whatever other reason. Fact is, we need to transition away from that, in both power sources and machinery that utilizes them.

Right now what we are doing is instead of curing hemophilia, we are patching the wound by applying band-aids with silver particle coating (that's the novelty part, the "free energy" in this case) in hope that'll stop the bleeding. What we must do is stop using band-aids and look into the body to see what happens in there that's causing hemophilia at the first place. And I mean this both literally and metaphorically.

Human body is a machine, a very complex one based on many biochemlectrical interactions, but never the less one. Nature is a machine as well, just so much more complex, and neither have any closed loops or they'd short circuit immediately and burn up due to overheating (the wasted energy) *grin*.

We have a blueprint for the "free energy" machine, it is our vehicle that we inhabit, so why not look within, under the hood, instead of seeking answers from without. But this whole world looks like is based on "patching" things, hoping the patch holds until someone in the future resolves the problem. Not many willing to take the responsibility right now. ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 22, 2007, 02:53:16 AM
@ Dr Stiffler
In the hopes of fostering reproducibility, I have created a printed circuit board artwork file based on your Thomas Oscillator circuit.  With your approval, I would like to release the file to members of this forum, preferably, from your web site. I will be happy to mark the design with any copyright information you think is appropriate. I have already marked it for "non commercial use only"  Just let me know if, and where to send the file. 
This PCB file could be emailed to one of many On-Line board fabricators like www.expresspcb.com, or for people who like to make their own, the file can be laser printed onto special ink jet paper, and ironed directly onto a copper clad board. Also, the design is not set in stone, so based on inputs from yourself and forum members, I will be willing to make various edits and changes as time permits.


Great idea, except if I am near correct it is not the mounting of components that has presented the primary hold back. At my site you can see a simple coil and LED on a cardboard surface. It seems the coil has from the start become the hangup. People don't want to try and obtain the correct one, or they want to use something  they have or wind a coil on some obscure ferrite.

You may indeed have a great idea and it may work, but for me I have far to many worms to feed to be able to take on more. Someway maybe you can do this without me getting involved. But go for it, this would help, have you made allocation for measurement components? Like 1 ohm samplers, ferrite's and decoupling caps.?

Thank you for the offer.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 22, 2007, 03:02:02 AM
I wonder if the LEDs can be replaced with an equivalent resistor.

assuming 150 Volts across the 10 uF cap.  Then we calculate R :

     R = 150 volts / 8.6 mA = 17.4 K ohm

If this gives the same results, supper, if not, it might be some LED dynamics that we might not fully understand.

Can you draw a detailed schematic of your circuit?   Is it the basic Thomas oscillator you had on your web page?

EM
LEDS, sometime in the hopefully near future with equipment better than mine for thermal measurement will confirm or deny my meager observation. But if you look at www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp at the bottom of the page, you may see what I am talking about and I will not bother to go further than to state that the LEDS appear to be "Thermal Neutral".

A resistor can be connected across the circuit in place of the LEDS and the measurements are very favorable and equivalent heat is evident. There is another approach that I worked on before leaving for the holidays, yet there is an issue of will the person making the suggestion accept the credit, as I can not and can not discuss it until this is resolved. But a better method than the resistor does exist where the out come is significant.

The osc. is the 'Thomas' osc and it uses a PN200 transistor. There is a startup resistor of 220K from the collector to the base. The collector end of the standard coil arrangement is coupled to the base through a 56pF Silver Mica. Thats it except for the standard power rail decoupling.

CAUTION! Every one should use care with these circuits, they can bite and STILL will for no reason burn out significant numbers of LEDS. When using filter caps across the Plug, never remove or add or break the series chain until you have carefully removed the capacitor and discharged it. Other wise bye, bye LEDS.

ATTENTION ALL!

These circuits have been on circuit boards for some 5 days now, in various configurations and work BETTER than on the proto-board with all its stray capacity.

**If you can not get to my web sites its because their DNS was lost when they were shut down by mistake. The pointer returned to the host. DNS replication can take up to 72 hours world wide.
Hi Dr. Stiffler, 

The transistor is the PN100, NPN.....the PN200 is the PNP complementary to it.  Good to hear about the circuit board versions and the story on the server/your site!

On vacation in SC.  Happy Thanksgiving for the locals!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 22, 2007, 03:02:44 AM
@utilitarian:

There are quite a few reasons that doing that isn't quite as good idea as it initially seems.

For a start, connecting the output wires to the input wires would be closing the circuit, which from my limited understanding is a Bad Thing (tm) with these sorts of alternative energy circuits. Closing the circuit, in Tom Bearden's words, "Kills the dipole".

Secondly, because of the efficiency of components in the circuit, this device would need to have a COP much higher than just 1 to be able to use something like a solar panel to close the circuit. From the numbers that Dr. Stiffler recently posted, the circuit does have a COP > 1, but would likely not be self powering.

And lastly, and I could be wrong on this one, even if closing the circuit wasn't an inherently bad idea with this type of claim, its not as simple as just connecting the output wires to the input wires. There is quite a bit of extra circuitry you need to get it working.

This may be a bit hypocritical since I haven't got my coils yet and thus can't replicate it myself, but I really urge people to stop making suggestions for changing the circuit unless they have built it themselves. It really kills the conversation.


@Dr. Stiffler:

I must ask your opinion on asking for numbers, measurements, etc. Amigo, who seems to have made a lot of progress, seems fairly insistent that we drop the "Old Ways". Now, I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), but it seems to me that you don't have a problem with using numbers and equations, so long as they agree with your observations? The key being that traditionally people would claim that something is impossible if the numbers are too far removed from predictions, but you'd rather state that the numbers are wrong, and what is in front of you is obviously correct?

Forgive me if it sounds like an attack, but really all I'm trying to do is figure out what is acceptable use of current theories, and what is going to get people riled up. Obviously existing models must have some merit under certain situations, or we wouldn't have the internet to discuss these things. But I think we can all agree these models are not perfect.
There is NO reason why someone could explain this in a slightly modified conventional way. Would be similar to conventional physics and QM, one leaves off and the other picks up. My only observation on explaining it in conventional theory and law is that to do that 'How would you accept SEC', COP isn't really the right thing to use here, but yoiu did so lets use it. How do you in convention explain COP>1. Currently the only way is to say I and many others are wrong in our observations?

But if you have an angle, lets go for it right????
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 22, 2007, 03:08:52 AM
@Dr. Stiffler:

I must ask your opinion on asking for numbers, measurements, etc. Amigo, who seems to have made a lot of progress, seems fairly insistent that we drop the "Old Ways". Now, I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), but it seems to me that you don't have a problem with using numbers and equations, so long as they agree with your observations? The key being that traditionally people would claim that something is impossible if the numbers are too far removed from predictions, but you'd rather state that the numbers are wrong, and what is in front of you is obviously correct?

I'll say this because I still fail to understand what are we trying to accomplish. For one I am not prepared, willing, nor care to prove anything to anyone from the orthodox scientific and scholarly community because I do not hold them or what they represent in high regard. That is why I could not care less about whether COP is < 1 or > 1 or whatever else.
These numbers are invented because the scientific community needs a way to glorify their purpose and justify their existence. Anyone thinking differently within or without that community is ostracized, luckily not burnt at the stake like they used to do it, but career/professional suicide is close enough. Furthermore I am seriously questioning all and any "knowledge" that they have served us throughout our schooling, as surface deep or shallow cover for the big gas cloud of nothingness behind it.
We must unlearn what we have been told so we can begin anew and only then we'll be able to see all the possibilities that lie outside the small box that we have been put in.

My ultimate goal is to bring humanity a way out of the chains they have been bonded by our "Overlords", and slavery they have endured for many generations, because our purpose here is not to eat, shit, breed, work and pay taxes. Existence is much richer than that and there is so much more beyond anyone could possibly think of. We just need to imagine, that's all...but how do you do that when you are constantly distracted with menial things in your life. Granted some people seem to take pleasure in them but that's because they do not know any better.

So if it's going to be a black box that has a power plug and does some "kind of magic", well so be it. Most of 6.6 billion people will not care what's inside it, as long as that box is in balance with the Nature providing clean, renewable, reusable alternative source of power. Then Mr. Scientist can go ahead and rip it up and re-wire it and do all kinds of measurements and write numbers down to disprove it...

I thought most of you have seen Bedini's documentaries, where the man himself talks about "scientists" coming to his lab to check his discoveries out and re-wiring them because they are *clearly* wired incorrectly. I believe it's time we re-wire our brains away from the non-sense conventional science had thought us and open ourselves to many possibilities above and beyond.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 22, 2007, 03:11:45 AM
(please delete, dupe)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 22, 2007, 03:12:08 AM
(please delete, dupe)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 22, 2007, 03:36:04 AM
What? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unity
Maybe your using AC, I'm not.............
[/quote]
@DrZLowe7 - I worked in the telecommunications industry for 20 years. It is a network which is inherently DC, and makes use of varying DC and AC signal superimposition.

Do not confuse VARYING DC with AC. Although varying DC signals have all the qualities of an AC one, they have one parameter which true AC does not. They have a DC offset bias. It may not seem important, but it is exremely important! Varying DC only has a varying Voltage component vector, i.e direction. The current component vector doesn't change direction, only the amount or "intensity" of the current varies.
You need a transformer to make the final shift from varying DC to AC.

This is why Stifflers original diagrams are so unique, and made me take notice. In his earlier diagrams, the primary of the transformer was only connected at one end. The primary coil current would have been miniscule in such an open circuit condition.

Now there is nothing unusual about an open ended HV secondary, but what is unusual is that the O/P from the secondary took place at all when the primary current could only be achieved by capacitive leakage through the air. With such a weak primary coil interface, the AC coupling produced by the core, even at RF, would be expected to be miniscule. But very bright lights suggested otherwise!

I like bright lights   :D

Cheers all





Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: utilitarian on November 22, 2007, 03:57:26 AM

My ultimate goal is to bring humanity a way out of the chains they have been bonded by our "Overlords", and slavery they have endured for many generations, because our purpose here is not to eat, shit, breed, work and pay taxes. Existence is much richer than that and there is so much more beyond anyone could possibly think of. We just need to imagine, that's all...but how do you do that when you are constantly distracted with menial things in your life. Granted some people seem to take pleasure in them but that's because they do not know any better.

So if it's going to be a black box that has a power plug and does some "kind of magic", well so be it. Most of 6.6 billion people will not care what's inside it, as long as that box is in balance with the Nature providing clean, renewable, reusable alternative source of power. Then Mr. Scientist can go ahead and rip it up and re-wire it and do all kinds of measurements and write numbers down to disprove it...

I thought most of you have seen Bedini's documentaries, where the man himself talks about "scientists" coming to his lab to check his discoveries out and re-wiring them because they are *clearly* wired incorrectly. I believe it's time we re-wire our brains away from the non-sense conventional science had thought us and open ourselves to many possibilities above and beyond.

Preach it brother.  I want the magic energy box.  I too am tired of wearing the yoke of the Man.  I am sick of Them, or the Overlords you speak of, who are keeping me down.  The oil companies just want to keep pumping oil and selling it.  They do not want free energy because oil is free to dig up and does not cost anything and is 100% profit, while free energy would cost them alot to create in materials and things.  Wait.  Well anyway, I hate those scientists who suppress free energy research with their "official laws of physics" and who never want to discover anything new because there is no glory or recognition in that, and the life of the researcher is already glamorous and lucrative and they do not want to rock the boat and lose the sweet gigs they have by discovering something that will improve the lives of everyone because they are to busy getting "rich" on research.  Wait.

Well anyway, I hate the Overlords too.  Fight the power.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 22, 2007, 04:26:15 AM
utilitarian: I almost didn't realize you were being sarcastic just then...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrZLowe7 on November 22, 2007, 05:14:03 AM
Quote
What? Watts = Volts X current . Not Volts X voltage drop. You say you are producing around 200 volts with a 3 volt voltage drop you now have 197 volts . 197 volts X .0086 = 1.6942 watts. However because we are using AC to operate the LED's they are on 50% 0f the time off 50% of the time. So 1.6942 / 2 =.8471 watts a loss of 89mw not over unity
Maybe your using AC, I'm not.............
@DrZLowe7 - I worked in the telecommunications industry for 20 years. It is a network which is inherently DC, and makes use of varying DC and AC signal superimposition.

Do not confuse VARYING DC with AC. Although varying DC signals have all the qualities of an AC one, they have one parameter which true AC does not. They have a DC offset bias. It may not seem important, but it is exremely important! Varying DC only has a varying Voltage component vector, i.e direction. The current component vector doesn't change direction, only the amount or "intensity" of the current varies.
You need a transformer to make the final shift from varying DC to AC.

This is why Stifflers original diagrams are so unique, and made me take notice. In his earlier diagrams, the primary of the transformer was only connected at one end. The primary coil current would have been miniscule in such an open circuit condition.

Now there is nothing unusual about an open ended HV secondary, but what is unusual is that the O/P from the secondary took place at all when the primary current could only be achieved by capacitive leakage through the air. With such a weak primary coil interface, the AC coupling produced by the core, even at RF, would be expected to be miniscule. But very bright lights suggested otherwise!

I like bright lights   :D

Cheers all


You are correct. I well know about varying DC verses AC. However Dr Stiffler and EMdevices set me straight. I was so intense on disproving the math that I did not really look at it. And like I said my mouth was running faster than my brain. I was born in West Virgina the law of the feud rules there. I went to school with Hatfields and the McCoys lived on the other side of the mountain. The rule was ounce an enemy always an enemy. I try to fight up bringing and genetics as much as possible when they a negative but some times I just go off. I have apologized to Dr. Stiffler for this. I hope he knows it was not easy and will forgive me. As I was accusing him very type of deception I could think of. This is almost unforgivable but I hope he has a big HEART.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 22, 2007, 05:53:00 AM
Guys,

Here's a schematic of the simple experiment to light LEDs with one wire.

Notice the stray capacitance.    

The beginner in electronics can't understand why you can conduct current with one wire, but it's because of this stray capacitance.   Ask yourself why current flows across a parallel plate capacitor, there IS NO CONTACT BETWEEN THE PLATES.  How can this happen?     It's the influence of the electric fields and the charges that accumulate and how they repell like charges and attract opposite charges.

Now that is not the whole story,  you realy need to understand EM fields and waves.   A single wire has a capacitance per unit length and an inductance per unit length.   It's a transmission line, and at certain frequencies, where the wavelength is just right it becomes a very effective ANTENNA. 

So, if you tune to a resonant frequency, even though you have one wire, you will increase the current flow, and yes, the LED's will light up with very little current !!!

In Summary:   POWER COMES FROM THE FREQUENCY GENERATOR

If it doesn't come from there, why don't you unplug and remove this extra useless electronic box and still keep those LED's lit    LOL  :)

EM

Thank you EMdevices, I really appreciate your patience and effort in explaining this phenomena. I also admire you looking in detail what Dr. Stiffler is showing us and willing to accept that he might be right based on the evidence shown.

I am still puzzled about a few things though, not to be rude or picking a fight or anything like that, I am really trying to understand how "you all" are seeing this things in a way that I simply have not seen.

I will try to explain as best as I can the conflict that I am having with the current view of RF and Resonance and Stray Capacitance and Transmission Lines theories that you and others have explained (including in this site http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/3.html and http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_14/4.html for reference).

When I look at the experiment that I did and you kindly repeated with your nice drawing (the guy on the left actually looks like me really :) ) I see that you are explaining it away using the Stray Capacitance and Transmission line as the reason for the current being in effect and lighting the LEDs which even make perfect sence except that when I look up the theories about those points they all explain it in "almost" the same way as you did except that the distance of the lines of transmission, or the cable where the guy on the drawing is touching and the ground up to the other lead of the Func Gen, they ARE in parallel and to close proximity. If I account for the distance of the cables in my experiment and plug that into the mathematical formulas the stray capacitance would absolutely be irrelevant.

That's where I am confused and have been asking if someone could "really" explain how my experiment is in line with RF or Stray capacitance at all! you see?

I confess I still have to lookup more into the "Antenna" theories to really make sure this would still be really explained.

Do you see my problem? I understand Stray capacitance is there in my experiment but not in the sence that is presented in the theories. That's why I am stating that the energy is not coming from the Func.Gen but some place else.

Concerning your question about removing the FuncGen: Of course If I remove the FuncGen it should not work. I will have then say the same about Dr. Stiffler Thomas Osc design, which makes no sence at all. Off course WE can not remove the "black box" that generates the power even thought that same "black box" does not produce ALL the power. It is an effect here.

Is it possible to have Stray Capacitance between the open lead of the FuncGen through the air and the other cable 3 feet away (as shown on my video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDjSMtiElgI) to the level that current would flow to light 80+ LEDs? (I have the same experiment with all that many LEDs too). It sounds almost like there is an "invisible cable" closing the loop. Thats very difficult for me to accept. I would though understand that same phenomena if I was running the same experiment using a two wire cables in close proximity and in parallel to each other as all the other theories I have seen explains.

Fausto.

ps: some definitions:
A transmission line is a pair of parallel conductors exhibiting certain characteristics due to distributed capacitance and inductance along its length.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 22, 2007, 06:35:02 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 22, 2007, 07:11:42 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 22, 2007, 07:47:11 AM
Okay, I am making progress now.
LEDs are now double or triple as bright with just about 120 to 150 mWatts input.

I am using a aluplate as just a back plate, but not grounded and the 9 Turn
coil is directly in the feedback loop of my 40106 oscilator.

I am using a Ferrite magnet to squeeze the domains of the ferrite rod to get
the maximum brightness at around now 3.5 Mhz.

Just have a look at the pictures, the blue LEDs are now very bright ! ;)

Circuit diagrams will come later.
I have to go to bed now and have to do some other things tomorrow,
so circuit digaramms will still have to wait one or 2 days...
It is really interesting to play with all the coil parameters when the circuit is running
and seeing how many turns you can wind onto the ferrite rod to get maximum
brightness..
I also see the core ringing and this seems to give the amplification.
You have to hit the right resonance frequency of the core to get the
bigger brightness output. Play with a magnet near or at the ferrite core
to squeeze the domains into the right direction and get maximum brightness.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 22, 2007, 07:52:31 AM
@ Stefan:

Great photos!  It is easy to see how bright your leds are burning now.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 22, 2007, 07:57:22 AM
P.S: I am now feeding in 12 Volts at around 8 to 12 mA,
depending now how I setup the cores and the magnet on the low turn driving coil.

The output is just  from the litz coil (secondary coil)
via the one wire to the Avramenko plug ( 2 x 1N4148)
and then to the 10 blue LEDs in series with a 22 uF in parallel.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 22, 2007, 12:14:40 PM
@Stefan,,,,,,you know I like bright lights!   ;D Great progress!  Can't wait for more  :)
P.S. 120-150 milliwatts - thats "one standard candle" that I talked about in a previous post. And you've got 10 of them!
Cheers from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 22, 2007, 12:39:59 PM
@utilitarian:

There are quite a few reasons that doing that isn't quite as good idea as it initially seems.

For a start, connecting the output wires to the input wires would be closing the circuit, which from my limited understanding is a Bad Thing (tm) with these sorts of alternative energy circuits. Closing the circuit, in Tom Bearden's words, "Kills the dipole".

LOL
Thanks for the laugh. These 'alternative energy circuits' are very special - the OU or spatial coherence, or whatever it is, is always just around the corner, but somehow prevented from being reached because of Killing the Dipole, or something.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 22, 2007, 06:32:07 PM
Ok Fausto,  take a look at the diagram. 

After giving it some thought, I think the SERIES capacitance of the diodes and the SERIES inductance of the wire are the key players in the resonance. 

The stray capacitance to ground from the person at the other end is also key.   Thinking in terms of antennas,  we can load the top of the antennas with a larger sphere then the diameter, to tune the antenna, or tesla coils have top hats.  Anyway, it's just a place where the currents can flow into with little resistance.     That's what you are doing  by touching the wire or by hooking up the spool of wire to it, you're providing a low impedance SINK for the current.   Hope this helps.  

EM

PN100 is the NPN, PN200 is a PNP...............

(remember the model is approximate.  There is what is know as distributed parameters, like in that link you posted on transmission lines, and that's what the transmission lines are.   However here we're operating at sub wavelengths so we don't have to invoke reflection coefficients just yet, but we're at high enough frequencies where interesting resonances can occur,  resonances which we didn't consider at lower frequencies)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 22, 2007, 07:00:13 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 22, 2007, 07:02:51 PM
Dear Non-Classical Researchers,

Here is an example of a Thomas Driver operating 65 (out of 92 avaliable) very old LED's that have been soldered to a Radio Shack circuit board (Cat No. 276-170) elevated a full 3" above the bread board. The Ferrite Antenna Loop stick is elevated 1.25" above the bread board as well. The switching transistor is a 2N4101 (it gets hot). Feedback capacitor is Silver Mica 56pf. Starting Resistor is 220K. The "primary" winding is 9 turns of #24 AWG magnet wire. Using a 12 volt 6.2 Ahr Gel Battery decoupled with 1.0, 0.1, and .01uF poly capacitors. AV diodes are IN4148. Analog DC supply current 70 mA. (Take that reading with a grain of salt since this is a DC meter - RF meter coming) The 190pF collector to ground bybass capacitor has been omitted.

No claims of OU or effective operating power levels are made here, just that this circuit will illuminate several LED's without the complication of parasitic capacitance introduced by the bread board. Such was not the case with my early experiments with this technology just a few weeks ago. Apparently the Thomas Driver can provide a power level sufficient enough to swamp the observable effects of the distributed capacitance that were experianced in the past.

Submitted for your consideration,

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: bolt on November 22, 2007, 08:04:17 PM
Quite  a number of you have these circuits now but again i ask please to add super regen quenching to the oscillator. As explained several times now the 5Khz hash on the TPU is almost certain a result of quenching because this raising the Q gain of the ferrite bar OR torridial cores by hundreds even thousand percent. Thus any extra power which is being sucked into the circuit when in resonance will be in abundance and thus will be the second stage to a self running circuit. The current gain of 150% to 300% may not be sufficient to loop back to make it self running without quenching due to feedback loses. What should happen like most high tuned circuits is the input power should drop dramatically as Q is increased while output power increases dramatically. This is exactly why super regen radios of over 50 years ago can accept a signal a small as 10uV and within the space of a single  tube amplifier oscillator use that to drive a loudspeaker. Think about this!! In theory at least i expect you to achieve uA input power and still run 50 LEDS.

Its very easy for those that wish to take this the the second level!!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 22, 2007, 08:31:42 PM
@bolt,
Do you happen to have a copy of Idiots guide to super regenerative quenching? Wikipedia does not describe this very well!
Failing that, please point where you may already have discussed this.

Regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 22, 2007, 11:43:39 PM
Dear Non-Classical Researchers,

Here is an example of a Thomas Driver operating 65 (out of 92 avaliable) very old LED's that have been soldered to a Radio Shack circuit board (Cat No. 276-170) elevated a full 3" above the bread board. The Ferrite Antenna Loop stick is elevated 1.25" above the bread board as well. The switching transistor is a 2N4101 (it gets hot). Feedback capacitor is Silver Mica 56pf. Starting Resistor is 220K. The "primary" winding is 9 turns of #24 AWG magnet wire. Using a 12 volt 6.2 Ahr Gel Battery decoupled with 1.0, 0.1, and .01uF poly capacitors. AV diodes are IN4148. Analog DC supply current 70 mA. (Take that reading with a grain of salt since this is a DC meter - RF meter coming) The 190pF collector to ground bybass capacitor has been omitted.

No claims of OU or effective operating power levels are made here, just that this circuit will illuminate several LED's without the complication of parasitic capacitance introduced by the bread board. Such was not the case with my early experiments with this technology just a few weeks ago. Apparently the Thomas Driver can provide a power level sufficient enough to swamp the observable effects of the distributed capacitance that were experianced in the past.

Submitted for your consideration,

Spokane1
[b

Nice work Spokane1, 

With different value capacatance feedback in the base circuit, it will pump a lot more power (and can be tuned for max output at a given voltage) than that but the stable low power circuit is great as a teaching/learning tool!  Above a watt, you need to use a heat sink. You can put a variable cap of say 20-250 pf in the base to gnd and it works like a variable power control as the 2 Caps act like a RF voltage divider.  More cap in the base, less power out.  With the PN100 transistor and correct value of cap, you can easily get the same output with 2-3VDC input!  It will work very well on ONE 1.5 alkaline battery.   It is very easy to boost power till you release all the silicon smoke in the transistor.........Oh, silver mica is most excellent as the Cap. in the base circuit. So much to tell, so much to learn and I am 700 miles from my 2X4
lab but the Punkin Pie was great just a min ago!.....

K4ZEP Ben Thomas][/b]
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 23, 2007, 12:39:40 AM
@EMdevices
...(remember the model is approximate.  There is what is know as distributed parameters, like in that link you posted on transmission lines, and that's what the transmission lines are.   However here we're operating at sub wavelengths so we don't have to invoke reflection coefficients just yet, but we're at high enough frequencies where interesting resonances can occur,  resonances which we didn't consider at lower frequencies)
Thank you so much EMdevices. Now I know I am talking to the right "mind". That is exactly what I thought is happening with my experiment. Some resonance because of stray capacitance in ONLY one wire and the spoll (or my body) is the sink where the electrons can flow momentarily because of the diapole generated by the FuncGen. I do not need to see the other "wire" anywhere, one wire is all that is necessary because of the high frequency being so fast allowing the electrons to move just enough trough the LEDs to light them up.

But here is my twist to the story: is it possible to decouple the signal from the FuncGen from its power so that I still could reproduce the experiment and know for sure that power would not be coming from the FG as a current of any amount and still have the LEDs light? In other words, is it possible to decouple the FG from the LEDs still using one wire and no current coming from the FG?

Fausto.

ps: I am NOT trying to deviate from Dr. Stiffler experiments in anyway. The reason I am doing this and asking those questions is because I am trying to understand Drs experiments and eliminate each variable so that I can know for sure what is what and how each part works. I believe that the one wire transmission is crucial for SEC to work as I can see all the LEDs after the secondary coming from one wire.

What I am trying to find out now what is that energy from the oscilator and could I reproduce it independent of its amplification without having to create my own oscilator thus using a Func Gen.

Second, is the source of the energy or power happening because the effect of this "Stray Capacitance - Resonance" or there is more to it?

Third, how amplification really works? So many variables. So I am eliminating one by one, trying to understand each one and them I will most probably be back where Dr. Stiffler is already BUT with much more understanding than just replicating his ideas.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 23, 2007, 01:40:52 AM
As promised, I have now created a printed circuit drawing for the Thomas oscillator that you can use for your own NON COMMERCIAL USE.
This has not yet been reviewed, so if you are timid, do not build this unless you are willing to make your own modifications, at least until revision 1.
For those of you experienced with PCB layouts, please take a look, and let me know if you spot any problems, missing traces etc.
All artwork and an explanation document are contained in the file ThomasPCB.zip (attached)

Enjoy,
DerrickA

P.S. The drawing below will probably show up about twice the size of the actual circuit board. (2X)  This board can fit up to 80 LED's  (yellow circles).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 23, 2007, 03:00:12 AM
@DerrickA
Beautifull work. Thank you.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 23, 2007, 04:21:33 AM
I figured I should report some of my findings since I thought it is interesting and others might find it useful.

I have wound my own coil using the same ferrite stick like the original one from the AM radio. I found these ferrite sticks at an electronic surplus store, they did not come with any windings of their own. I am including numbers for those craving for them, heck I even measured current from the battery as a kick.

The primary  (L2 as per original schematic) is approximately 10' of 30 AWG with value on core of ~580 uH, on top of which is the secondary (L3) about 9 turns of 23 AWG with value of 5 uH. Secondary is wound snug but can be moved around (using your fingernails) and my photos will demonstrate why.

Sorry for somewhat blurry photos, I'm trying to do a quick and dirty job here, not do Vogue photography.

What's important to note is the position of the secondary (L3, 9T 23 AWG). If you observe in the second photo it is at the top of the coil, closest to the collector and as you can see LEDs do not light up at all. So let's start the tuning.

If we move it a bit towards the center of the coil, the LEDs start to light up, current drops a bit. We move it at the center and current goes up slightly and LEDs light up brighter as before.

So if you thought to stop there, don't, continue moving cause interesting thing happens. Next step is slightly off the center towards the bottom of the coil (+ feed) and the LEDs bright up even more while current dips down. Move a bit more and the LEDs are now really burning up in brightness while the current is at its lowest. Move further down and the current goes up a bit and LEDs ever slightly dim (so not as bright as in the sweet spot) yet pretty bright never the less.

I know you can't see this clearly from my photos so you'll have to take my word for it and try it on your own as well.

Please note that there is no HV effect in these tests - I do not get the neon lamp to light up at all. I believe that is because I have not reached necessary inductance in the primary coil similar to the original coil. I do not have a smaller wire available to me at the moment but I feel that if the primary is wound with ~33 AWG it could reach 800 uH or more and we might see those HV effects come back. That is my next step.

For now you got something to play with...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 23, 2007, 07:33:19 AM
@Dr. Stiffler,

congratulations Doctor. Amazing stuff. THank you!

I could reproduce the experiment tonight and oh boy, that thing runs and bites. IT is very impressive. I could light up over 80 leds. It has very weird behaviors. Touching the hand reacts a little bit differently from the other experiments that I have shown at youtube. Once I turn the circuit on it takes about 2 to 5 seconds for it to regulate to the point of lighting up the LEDs.

I could not run it above 9v because my transistor would simply burn. I ran it also using a 9v battey and it runs very nicely. I will try tomorow to measure more the input/output to see if overunity is there. This design reminds a lot of Bedini SSG concerning the High Voltage. And it is true, do not touch it unless you want some shock. This kind of electricity is definitely different from the other one I could create using only the FuncGen and lamp coils (as I have been talking previously). This electricity feels more fluid and it is not cold at all. If seams that it permeates everything almost like a gass around the surfice of everything around and any thing changes the whole dynamics. Tonight was my first time really playing with this kind of electricity and before I only have heard of it.

I can barely wait to play with it more tomorow.

@all
please do it. It is so simple my daughter could build it. It is really fun and there is lots os things to learn here.

I also posted some videos at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zXH5WJjXtQ (there are at least 3 videos for tonight).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 23, 2007, 09:15:27 AM
@plengo

Well done !

I have just watched your 3 Youtube videos and be cautious to touch
it.

What frequency do you have at your output ?

If it is in the Khz range only, then it surelywill hurt,
when you touch the high Voltage.

When you are theinMhz range, there the skin effect
should prevent an electrical shock, but it might just
be then a heat burn on your skin ?

Do you have a scope and can post scopeshots
at the transistor collector versus ground ?

Many thanks again for your hard work.

I think I must try to use also just a simple transistor
and use input current.
In my last testI get 30 Volts across the 10 LEDs.
But the current is hard to measure.
One meter shows
about 1.4 mA and another shows about 4 mA
and a 1000 Ohm shunts also shows about 1.25 mA
on the scope...
( as my scope head is only 100:1  I must use a bigger shunt,
but with the 1000 Ohm shunt the brightness is not reduced, when
I have this in series with the LEDs... hmm, that is curious...)

@plengo,
please put a big metal plate or alufoil in connection with your LEDs,
then they will light up much brighter..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 23, 2007, 03:03:41 PM
As promised, I have now created a printed circuit drawing for the Thomas oscillator that you can use for your own NON COMMERCIAL USE.
This has not yet been reviewed, so if you are timid, do not build this unless you are willing to make your own modifications, at least until revision 1.
For those of you experienced with PCB layouts, please take a look, and let me know if you spot any problems, missing traces etc.
All artwork and an explanation document are contained in the file ThomasPCB.zip (attached)

Enjoy,
DerrickA

P.S. The drawing below will probably show up about twice the size of the actual circuit board. (2X)  This board can fit up to 80 LED's  (yellow circles).
Do you plan to sell any of those PC boards......I sure would buy one if you did..I would prefer that the top of the 220K resistor went to the collector instead of + of power supply (if my old eyes are right) but not a problem to modify it that way....Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 23, 2007, 07:12:26 PM
@hartiberlin
Thanks Stefan.

What frequency do you have at your output ? It is 2.5 mhz. On the picture you will see the pulses and the TDiv is .2useconds (.2 microseconds).

And you right, if I touch it just lightly enough it burns as if it was very hot.

Osciloscope set to both probes at VDIV 5v and TDiv is .2useconds (.2 microseconds).
The first picture is the colector and ground with probe at 1x. Second picture is the negative of the diode at the avramko plug and no ground (second lead is disconnected), probe set at 10x. Third picture is both signals together. All signals are center screen zero, in other words, above half of the screen is + and below is opposite current and it is -.

Last picture is both signals again (collector and ground / avramko plug negative) but with both probes set to 10x so that you can have a better view of the potential difference.

Input voltage now is 9v and 130ma. I have tested with many voltages and currents and I can get all LEDs to light at 4.5v input, current at around 50ma but them I need to connect a big spoll (lamp wire or ground) to any LED to light them.

At 12v and no limiting on the current which can go to 250ma I dont need the spoll anylonger. All LEDs fully bright (hurts the eye) BUT can not run it for too long because transistor gets so hot that it burns.

I was able to run it with 12v and 60ma if a 223pf cap is between the base and ground. LEDs seams to be the same brightness and scope still shows the same waves/voltages/times.

I dont think I got this transistor base setup to the proper voltage/amp because I dont think it is turnning on/off once the whole thing runs. I can disconnect the resistor from the base after it is running and nothing changes. Anyway, the whole circuit presents lots of "stray capacitance" everywhere ( I really think this cold electricity or radiant electricity behaves like a gas anyway) which could affect the base of the transistor.

Dr. Stiffler is right about its auto-resonance. Even if you insert or remove LEDs, resistor and caps, it finds its best frequency automatically. It must be because of the oscilations from primary and secondary turnning on/off the base of the transistor (very similiar to SSG from Bedini).

I have much to play still. More measurements to come. Just wait. :)

My transistor is PNP 2N3906. I tried with other ones but this was the only one I could make it work so far. I have to tune the hell of this thing. The other components are the same as specified by what EMdevices printed some posts ago. The LEDs that I am using are not all in series. There are 25 in series all the rest are in parallel in different configurations.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 23, 2007, 07:21:29 PM
Dear Non-funded Researchers,

Per K4ZEP recomendations 11-22-07

The Thomas Driver, as described in post #889 11-22-07, can easily be modified to increase its power output 23% (from 65 LEDs to 80 LEDs) while at the same time reducing its relative current consumption by 22% (70 mA to 54 mA).

1) The switching transistor was replaced with a 2N2905 fitted with a 2 watt heat sink (very obsolete - but has a higher power capacity than the 2N4104 used previously). This is a silicon PNP device that required the polarity of the battery to be reversed. Fortunately, the Thomas Driver is so simple that it can easily accommodate this change with no other circuit modifications.

General Description of the 2N2905 for reference:

Type: General Purpose Amplifier and Switch ? Silicon PNP (circa 1975)

Vce = 40V  (Needs to be higher as observed Vce in this circuit is in excess of 60V)
hfe = 200 at Ic = 150 mA
ft = 200 MHz
Pd = 800 mW  Metal Case

This swap out demonstrates how the characteristics of the switching transistor can positively impact system performance. This transistor is, most likely, still not the optimum model available for use in this kind of application.

2) Replace the fixed Silver-Mica feedback capacitor (56 pF) with a variable air capacitor (13pF to 110pF shown) and adjust for maximum peak-to-peak voltage across the collector-emitter of the switching transistor. In this example circuit a performance hump was found at a setting of 36 pF.

It is highly recommended that researchers who intend to explore circuit development with the Thomas Driver and its future variations consider investing in a selection of variable air capacitors. Having this adjustment feature certainly helps ?tune? the circuit for maximum performance especially when a number of different switching transistors are being evaluated.

3) As a side note. The AV plug sub circuit in this example circuit contains no filter capacitor. Adding one has no visible effect on current consumption or brightness level of the LED?s

Again, No OU is claimed for this example circuit?s operation (at this time). The switching frequency of the blocking oscillator is 1.67 MHz while the resulting ringing frequency is 8.47 MHz. The green test clip shown connected to the LED array is the means by which the number of Load LED's are selected.

Submitted for your consideration

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 23, 2007, 09:37:25 PM
I don't have the fancy test equipment most of you have but I thought I would share my replication results. I built the Thomas driver replication this morning and as careful as I thought I was, nearly everything was put in backwards except the transistor  :). After sorting thought it all it was working very nicely. I fiddled a bit more and managed to break the core in half! I then found that moving the core pieces helps to 'tune' the circuit.
My start voltage was 7.9 volts using a 9v radio battery, DC current measured 48ma. This curcuit was driving 38 bright white LED's. I made a YouTube video, you can see it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiIl722vK1s
I go off on a tangent after I discover a microphonic property of the circuit.
Enjoy,
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 23, 2007, 10:07:11 PM
Great work Dave!  Nice discovery of the feedback effect.  What the heck could that be I wonder?  This is fascinating.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bruce_TPU on November 23, 2007, 10:33:42 PM
@ Dave

Great video! 

The barium ferrite coil core is actually a tuning coil for an am radio.  So in my mind, not a mystery that another radio next to it would be effected.  BUT,  ;D  the feedback displayed makes me wonder if someone could put two of those cores into the circuit, and using a radio, attempt to tune each to feedback into the other.   ;D

Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 23, 2007, 10:57:15 PM
Thanks guys. I'm working on the feedback 'thing' right now. I managed to pull both core segments out and to my surprise the LED's are lit as bright as ever. If I get the core close to the coil I can tune the circuit to fully quiet the radio. It's at that point the audio feedback starts and vibrates the whole radio. I took the back off the radio and almost every component makes a sound. The most sensitive area is near the main tuning cap of the radio. It may be nothing, I'll try it with another radio.

UPDATE: Well, I tried another radio and the same thing happens. I made a short video so you can hear it. This (Sears) radio has more heterodyne whistle but I'm sure you will be able to hear the audio type feedback as well. If I can build this circuit anybody can, lets see some more replications.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyCYqvE-APc

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 23, 2007, 11:51:10 PM
@All,
It works (Thomas Oscillator) but no where near OU yet and I doubt my setup will get there.
Transistor is BC184L with a gain of about 240, circuit seems oscillate at about 12MHz.

Input is 9.2V x 6.2mA = 59mW
Output is 22.4V x 0.82mA = 18.3mW
Output is 8 white LEDs, 3.8V 30mA 13000mcd (I think they are all seconds - bought on ebay from Hong-Kong)
Therefore 32% efficient.

Yes sure, the LEDs look bright, but you can get a white LED to glow at 2.4V and 10uA = 24uW
This is a little different to the max output of 13 candles at 3.8V and 30mA = 114mW
I think I have got dazzled by looking directly into the LEDs ;)

I was able to measure the output by using a 10uF 63V capacitor to supply the LEDs.
It would be interesting to see what results everyone else has achieved by measuring the input/output.

Next step is to try a toroidal core in place of the stick antenna to improve the efficiency.
There is no tuning option with a toroidal core, so I may need to add a tuning cap.
 
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/DSCN5197.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/DSCN5201.jpg)
(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m25/kingrs/DSCN5200.jpg)

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 24, 2007, 12:02:41 AM
Dear Non-Funded Researchers,

One more important modification that will be of great assistance in this exploration:

Replace the fixed inductance on the "primary" side of the antenna loop stick with a variable inductor as shown in the photo below. With this modification I was able to find an oscillation mode that provided enough voltage gain to light all 92 LED's in the load array, however it came with the cost of additional curent from the supply battery (81 mA). Adjusting the inductance has a profound effect on the measurable DC current at different capacitor settings. The example inductor was modified by removing one layer of copper wire. It now has a range of 1.6uH to 16.5 uH. The original 1" - 10 Turn hand wound fixed coil had a value of 2.6 uH. It is shown in the photo (disconnected) to display its relative size difference.

It is my technical belief (at the moment) that the function of the added primary inductance is to reduce the effective coupling between the coils on the loop stick.  When k=0.755 then 3rd Harmonic voltage addition is possible. See "Induction Coil Theory and Applications" Taylor Jones 1932.

The variable inductor allows several more modes of operation to be evaluated. I have attached some .GIF images from my scope to show two examples of the many. The attached scope traces are the taken from the voltage across the collector ? emitter of the switching transistor. D005 is the mode that is running all 92 LED's at a moderate brightness, while D005 is a different mode in which the LED's operate at a much lower brilliance but at only 30 mA. (I don't know if this site can handle .GIF images so they might not be displayed)

The adjustments between the variable capacitor and the variable inductance are interactive. It will take patience to explore all the resonance possibilities that this circuit can provide, even a circuit as simple as this one. I would suspect that only certain operational modes are candidates for any hoped for OU properties.

Submitted again for your consideration.

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 24, 2007, 01:22:36 AM
@ Ben K4ZEP

Do you plan to sell any of those PC boards......I sure would buy one if you did..I would prefer that the top of the 220K resistor went to the collector instead of + of power supply (if my old eyes are right) but not a problem to modify it that way....Ben K4ZEP

While I wasn't planning to sell the boards, you can easily have one manufactured for yourself, at reasonable cost via the internet. Just follow the  steps (below). Often, this can be a next day delivery.  While I was originally planning to make my own board, the thought of drilling 160+ LED mounting holes, is making me think twice, so I will consider splitting the cost on a board order with you, as there is often a minimum quantity of 3 or 4 boards involved. So if you do decide to order my unmodified circuit, let me know. (Also if you have new extra ferrite coils...)
As for your other question, I think you mean the 330K resistor. My circuit board is based on the 'Thomas' schematic at http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp  This correctly connects the base of the transistor (middle terminal) to 12 volts. Feel free to edit the PCB art for your own use ( see Step 5 below). If the change turns out to be an improvement, let the forum know, and I will consider making it a permanent revison.

Regards,
DerrickA


HOW TO GET THE CIRCUIT BOARD MADE FOR YOU
1) Download the ThomasPCB.zip file from my earlier circuit board post.
2) Extract the ThomasOscillator.pcb file from the unZipped ZIP file.
3) Download ExpressPCB  (the program I used to make the circuit with) from http://www.expresspcb.com/  (This is a FREE program)
4) Open the ThomasOscillator.pcb in ExpressPCB
5) (Optional) If you wish, Do any editing to the circuit you want, for your own personal use.

    (The rest of these instructions are excerpted from expresspcb.com)            
6) Before submitting an order, you can get an exact quote to have the boards made using the Compute board cost command from the Layout menu.   
           
7) To place the order, select Order Boards Via The Internet from the Layout menu (you must first have your .PCB file loaded).   
           
 8 ) In the order form, fill in your name, address and email address. Select the manufacturing option you want (i.e. Standard, Production, 4 Layer-Production, etc) and enter the quantity of boards you need.   
            
9) To pay for the boards, enter your credit card information into the order form.

Note: The only method of payment we accept is credit card. We accept: Visa, Mastercard and American Express. The credit card information must be entered into the ExpressPCB program at the same time the order is placed.   
            
10) Before your order is sent, you will have a chance to review the exact cost. To submit the order, press the Send button. You will receive email confirming the order within one hour.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2007, 01:43:55 AM
Hi All, I am making huge progress.
I saw, that it is best to place the 2.2 uH coil directly in front of the AP !
Then I just put instead of the 2.2 uH coil another litz coil onto the core in front of the AP plug. Now I have this way 3 coils on the core and am using a BC 555 Thomas circuit oscillator and the LEDs are really bright now at 15 to 30 mA and 12 Volt input.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 01:46:53 AM
@derricka

Ben K4ZEP is Ben Thomas, developer of the Thomas Oscillator. The circuit on my web site is a modified version (modified by me) with Ben's permission. Please be aware of this should he comment about changes, I think he is making reference to his original design of which he has commented to 'Spokane1' in suggesting the tunable base cap, etc., just FYI for you all.

@Spokane1 and @All

If you can not hold one end of a neon and touch the other to the input of the AV Plug, SEC conditions is not possible. If this HV is not present and interface is not established.
Both sides of the neon will light at the Plug input. Then when touched to the output of each diode, alternate neon electrodes will light to match polarity.

Thanks....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2007, 01:51:54 AM
With a magnet near the core and the coils I can now control the core ringing and adjust for optimal brightness of the LEDs and minimal input.
I get the optimal brightness at mimimum input current, when I have some ringing ontop the positive wave. With the magnet I can control this ringing and adjust for minimal input power, while the LEDs stay at the same brightness.
At my collector versus emitter at my BC 555 NPN transistor I get a p-p voltage then from around 1 to 40 Volts !
With the magnet I can control this amplitude peak and the higher it goes the better it is and the less input power it draws at the same brightness...!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 02:17:52 AM
@Spokane1

I think I remember you stating you scope the collector of your oscillator? I prefer to use a sense coil lightly coupled to the core itself, reason being you can see many of the components that are not seen on the collector. The following two images are from using a sense coil that is operation in SEC mode, please note the frequencies.

It just may provide a little extra info should you need it.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 24, 2007, 03:19:40 AM

@Spokane1 and @All

If you can not hold one end of a neon and touch the other to the input of the AV Plug, SEC conditions is not possible. If this HV is not present and interface is not established.
Both sides of the neon will light at the Plug input. Then when touched to the output of each diode, alternate neon electrodes will light to match polarity.

Thanks....

Dr Stiffler, I'm getting a bright neon at the test points you indicated. I can't get a good focus on a closeup photo however.
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 24, 2007, 03:28:47 AM
Will someone please post URL for ordering coils? I can not find it in the over 60 pages of thread. Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 24, 2007, 03:30:26 AM
Will someone please post URL for ordering coils? I can not find it in the over 60 pages of thread. Thanks.

Ferrite Loopstick Antenna Coil Crystal Radio 680uh (http://cgi.ebay.com/Ferrite-Loopstick-Antenna-Coil-Crystal-Radio-680uh_W0QQitemZ150089628196QQihZ005QQcategoryZ7275QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 24, 2007, 03:31:01 AM
@RStiffler

Thanks for letting me know about Ben K4ZEP 's important role in all this, and your circuit modification.  I will be happy to draw a custom version of the PCB art layout for Ben, but first, I would need to obtain a copy of 'Thomas' schematic that he would be referring to.  As stated in a previous post, my goal is to foster reproducibility, so while I do want to limit the number of circuit versions floating around in this forum, I am willing to make versions that deliver the best results, and (or) offer the most promising avenues of exploration to key members, of course, as time permits. 

DerrickA

P.S.  I miss your YouTube videos! will they be reposted?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 24, 2007, 03:56:43 AM
Will someone please post URL for ordering coils? I can not find it in the over 60 pages of thread. Thanks.
This is what I bought and worked. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=150089628196

Good luck.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 24, 2007, 04:32:21 AM
@RStiffler

Thanks for letting me know about Ben K4ZEP 's important role in all this, and your circuit modification.  I will be happy to draw a custom version of the PCB art layout for Ben, but first, I would need to obtain a copy of 'Thomas' schematic that he would be referring to.  As stated in a previous post, my goal is to foster reproducibility, so while I do want to limit the number of circuit versions floating around in this forum, I am willing to make versions that deliver the best results, and (or) offer the most promising avenues of exploration to key members, of course, as time permits. 

DerrickA

P.S.  I miss your YouTube videos! will they be reposted?
Hi Derick,

What you have done is entirely adequate. I have in the past spend many thousands of hours designing very complicated up to 8 layer PC boards so changing your cad drawings no problem. When I retired, I swore I would never do another board but NEVER swear you won't do something!   I just don't every want to reinvent the wheel when someone has done such a nice job.

There are so many new improvements, variations, It is most encouraging to see all the success in building the basic device.  READ and RE-READ the complete Stiffler article, noting especially the waveforms and the 3rd harmonics on the basic waveforms.......The use of the sniffer coil on the scope is MOST helpful to see the artifacts that are important and enhancing them.

Spokane1 is doing some really nice work, Ossie Callanan in AU is also doing some most excellent variations also.  Our Moderator is also really in there with both feet, very good work Stefan, Amigo,everyone with a working model, the list just goes on and on.  With this pool of  creative people, things are going to progress rather rapidly I think!!!

The problem with positive feedback and making this thing self-powered, with excessive output is the next challenge I look forward to...Just remember if you do get positive feedback, you must have a foolproof method to clamp/control the output or you will end up with pools of silicone smoke and a non-working circuit....I suspect this basic circuit in an optimized configuration is definitely OU but again, proving it will be most challenging..Dr. Siffler is miles ahead of the rest of us in this area I believe.......A calorimetric approach using resistive heating probably will be the best and most conclusive way to put the question to rest......I suspect this will happen very soon......but, keep building, trying new things, new semiconductors, various bias, coils, etc.........the sky IS the limit!!!!!.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2007, 04:36:28 AM
Okay, this is now important.

Watch my new video over here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj299cuYGeg

I am using a bit different circuit than the Ben Thomas
circuit.
I have a 1 nF cap at the collector of the BC555 C , which goes to the first Litz coil
on the core.
My coupling to the base of the BC 555 C was made via laying just
a trimmer cap onto the core, it is only connected to the base, not anywhere else,
so this just couples via some pF stray capacitance to the coils on the core.
The basis was pulled up via 330 Kohm to +12 Volt supply.

I will now modify my circuit to the real Ben Thomas circuit and try to see,
if it will also work this way and what waveforms I will get then...
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2007, 04:59:08 AM
Who wants to see my video in a bigger resolution,here it is
in 720x480 30 frames/sec DivX.com codec:

http://overunity.com/stiffler/stiffler_harti05.avi

Regards, Stefan.

P.S. Put the 2.2 uH helper coil directly in front of the AP or
directly onto the core additionally.
Or replace it, as I did with a second litz coil.
This will help to light up the LEDs much brighter !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 24, 2007, 05:35:05 AM
@ Ben K4ZEP

Thanks Ben, if you (or anyone here) still want to get a PC board made, I put ordering instructions in my earlier post for you. If we can get a few people together on an order, it would cost even less, so if you want split an order with me, or other forum members, just let me know.

Derrick
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 24, 2007, 06:14:34 AM
Dear Dr. Stiffler and Fellow Associates,

I'm half way there with the neon lamp test. As you can see from the photo the lamp will brightly illuminate both internal electrodes. But when testing for the single electrode illumination I get zip when using the large GE D2A. Now if I switch to a smaller 4mm Red/Orange device then I get both electrodes illuminated on the single wire side of the AV plug. I then get a dim light on one electrode from the positive diode and then both electrodes are active on the negative side of the other AV diode. Perhaps my IN4148's are unable to deal with the approximate 300 V generated. I need to upgrade them as well as the switching transistor.

When I touch the GE 2DA to the single wire side of the AV plug my LED's drop to about 1/4 brilliance and the relative current drawn from the battery drops 25%. I'm holding the neon lamp with an insulated pair of electronic pliers. This circuit is certainly sensitive to load changes.

I'm still searching through my solid state collection for a better switching transistor. By Monday I'll just order the best I can find at Moser or Digi Key. The PN100 transistor recommended by KZEP4 only has a VCE of 40 volts. This circuit has exceeded that parameter already and is running at 60V. I'm sure a faster transistor with a higher gain will push that voltage even higher. It appears that the requirements of this circuit are the best of all worlds. High Gain, High Frequency Response (gain bandwidth product), VCE in excess of 200V and an Ic on the order of an Amp. Then when we get to that power level we will need an even bigger transistor. I suppose the maximum power limit for this circuit will be reached with the maximum useful saturation current of the Ferrite coil assembly.

The proposal of using a "Tickler" coil on one end of the Ferrite core to observe what is happening there is a most excellent idea. I shall employ that method shortly.

Thank you for your useful comments, May the experiments proceed.

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 24, 2007, 07:55:24 AM
@RStiffler et al.

I'm wondering, what's so special about the 1.524MHz frequency, it keeps popping up and apparently my coils will only produce HV at it so far, both the original AM flat ferrite and now this custom made one?

The custom coil is on a cylindrical ferrite, something similar to Stefan's but just shorter. Its main winding has almost 2.6mH while the secondary on top is about 5uH, and it syncs at 1.524MHz. Moving the secondary around can tune for the brightest LED effect/highest HV output as well.

Funny thing is that I used 2N3904 with hFE of 135 originally and did not get the HV effect. Then switched to a spare 2N2222 with hFE of 150 and HV effect kicked in. Oh, and I only have a 10nF from base to the original secondary, I had to remove the limiting cap across base/ground to get this to work.

What I can conclude from observation and testing is that the smaller winding on top of the main one has to be in the range of couple of uH around 4-6. The first one I made was 12uH and I did not get anything, frequency was about 800KHz, but then I used a shorter length of wire and it started working.

Sorry no photo this time, my camera is away. Tomorrow when I have it back I'll take the photo of the board and the scope screen.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2007, 08:48:17 AM
I said in my last video the wrong oscillation frequency.
It was not around 300 to 500Khz but 5 times higher,
asI forgot, that I had my 5x stretch knob engadged !

Sorry, so my oscillation frequency was really in the range of about 1.5 to 2.5 Mhz.

Hope this helps.

As I see, that Dr. Stiffler now also uses 2.45 Mhz ,
I maybe be at the right track ! ;)

Also my neon bulb lights now up very much more at the
litz coils !

Regards, Stefan.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jcims on November 24, 2007, 10:49:45 AM
UPDATE: Well, I tried another radio and the same thing happens.

Hi Dave!  Have you tried introducing a permanent magnet into the vicinity while the AM radio is in feedback?  Stefan's video of the effects of a magnetic field in the vicinity of the coil was interesting, and i'm wondering if the microphonic effect is due to acoustic disturbance of the circuit, or if it's picking up a field from the speaker driver.  You might also be able to test it with some earbud headphones off of the radio.  Put one in your ear and the other one backwards near the coil to see if it picks up the small driver in there.

Just a thought..feel free to skip it! :) 

I'm not sure i know what i'm looking at, but it's an interesting thread nonetheless! :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scorpio on November 24, 2007, 10:50:36 AM
Hi Guys!

I built and modified Dr. Stiffler circuit. Here is a pictures and schematic this circuit. I connected the "antenne" (1m wire) to the output then LED light has been brighter.
The added coil output voltage is 400Vpp! (see the scope pic)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 03:23:56 PM
Okay, this is now important.

Watch my new video over here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj299cuYGeg

I am using a bit different circuit than the Ben Thomas
circuit.
I have a 1 nF cap at the collector of the BC555 C , which goes to the first Litz coil
on the core.
My coupling to the base of the BC 555 C was made via laying just
a trimmer cap onto the core, it is only connected to the base, not anywhere else,
so this just couples via some pF stray capacitance to the coils on the core.
The basis was pulled up via 330 Kohm to +12 Volt supply.

I will now modify my circuit to the real Ben Thomas circuit and try to see,
if it will also work this way and what waveforms I will get then...
Regards, Stefan.
Very good Stefan, now you are getting there, note my comments following to all that may work out a little better for you coupling capacities.

@All

In the old days (Hi Ben!) we used twisted pair insulated wire for small feed back capacities. If you want something below 10pf it is easy to tightly twist up two wires and at first stretch it in a vertical direction in the air. You adjust by cutting off wire (When your circuit is Off). It is a fast and dirty way to make some tests and you will not have to worry about parts shifting and changing your coupling.

Of course a hand full of trimmer caps is ideal, yet down the road when we start to tie the circuit back into itself you may not need them. So if your working with small capacities, you can keep the cost and frustration down with this simple yet effective old trick.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 24, 2007, 03:37:21 PM
Okay, this is now important.

Watch my new video over here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj299cuYGeg

I am using a bit different circuit than the Ben Thomas
circuit.
I have a 1 nF cap at the collector of the BC555 C , which goes to the first Litz coil
on the core.
My coupling to the base of the BC 555 C was made via laying just
a trimmer cap onto the core, it is only connected to the base, not anywhere else,
so this just couples via some pF stray capacitance to the coils on the core.
The basis was pulled up via 330 Kohm to +12 Volt supply.

I will now modify my circuit to the real Ben Thomas circuit and try to see,
if it will also work this way and what waveforms I will get then...
Regards, Stefan.
Very good Stefan, now you are getting there, note my comments following to all that may work out a little better for you coupling capacities.

@All

In the old days (Hi Ben!) we used twisted pair insulated wire for small feed back capacities. If you want something below 10pf it is easy to tightly twist up two wires and at first stretch it in a vertical direction in the air. You adjust by cutting off wire (When your circuit is Off). It is a fast and dirty way to make some tests and you will not have to worry about parts shifting and changing your coupling.

Of course a hand full of trimmer caps is ideal, yet down the road when we start to tie the circuit back into itself you may not need them. So if your working with small capacities, you can keep the cost and frustration down with this simple yet effective old trick.

Hi Dr. Stiffler,  Yes I used a twisted cap to neutralize a old transmitter output stage (this goes way back!!!!! My ol 6146 homebuilt transmitter if I remember correctly), just don't cut too much off as you can't put it back.  I can't believe all the progress being made and the excellent modifications to the basic design!  It is just fun to watch the goings on......I should have gone on vacation sooner!!!!  It would seem that a high pass filter to pass the 3rd harmonic and uncouple the base frequency might be a help here, just thinking out loud. There is a heck of a lot going on in/around this circuit more than I understand!

Everyone is getting on the bandwagon and the understanding the needs of the circuit is impressive!  This is what happens when we all work together!
 Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 03:48:01 PM
I said in my last video the wrong oscillation frequency.
It was not around 300 to 500Khz but 5 times higher,
asI forgot, that I had my 5x stretch knob engadged !

Sorry, so my oscillation frequency was really in the range of about 1.5 to 2.5 Mhz.

Hope this helps.

As I see, that Dr. Stiffler now also uses 2.45 Mhz ,
I maybe be at the right track ! ;)

Also my neon bulb lights now up very much more at the
litz coils !

Regards, Stefan.


Stefan;

**As I see, that Dr. Stiffler now also uses 2.45 Mhz ,
This depends on where and how you are seeing it. If I scope direct to my oscillator collector I do not see the 2.5mHz that is seen when using a sniffer, or sense coil. The use of a air coupled coil to explore your core will show multitudes of info you can not obtain from the collector direct. Some of what you will see is common and fully expected, while other artifacts are (I believe) a result of the Spatial Coupling.

Not to criticize in any way, (from my work only and may not be the only way) but the coils must be tightly wound and the primary over the top of the secondary.

Maybe I best explain a portion of my SEC hypotheses and that might help in understanding some of my comments.

Back many pages I tried to explain that the 'Energy Coherence' takes place in the inner winding capacity of the coils. Another person posted some pictures that illustrated this concept, (maybe it was EMDevices) actually I think it was in response to a question you had posted. Anyway you have to think microscopic (macro will work and better so we do not need to get into QM). To the small capacities between the turns of the coil the impedance is very high at the macro level and when conditions are correct, frequency, voltage, waveform, each of these small capacitors form a single plate that couples to the Spatial Energy Frame and absorbs energy. Now the return path back to the Spatial Frame is via overall circuit capacity. Thus the circuit is a complete circuit but only at the Spatial Level.

Now because of what I just stated, if you circuit capacity to the Spatial Frame is large it swamps the small capacities of the inner winding of which is very small. Under this condition you can picture a capacitor voltage divider with the majority of energy being dropped through the very small winding capacitors between each turn and the Spatial Frame. Under this condition very little energy is available to the circuit.

By reduction of overall circuit capacity you change the voltage divider in such a way that the circuit receives more excess energy.

Loose coils, long wires, long leads, etc., all degrade the possibility of coupling enough energy to take you to and above unity.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 03:59:36 PM
Dear Dr. Stiffler and Fellow Associates,

I'm half way there with the neon lamp test. As you can see from the photo the lamp will brightly illuminate both internal electrodes. But when testing for the single electrode illumination I get zip when using the large GE D2A. Now if I switch to a smaller 4mm Red/Orange device then I get both electrodes illuminated on the single wire side of the AV plug. I then get a dim light on one electrode from the positive diode and then both electrodes are active on the negative side of the other AV diode. Perhaps my IN4148's are unable to deal with the approximate 300 V generated. I need to upgrade them as well as the switching transistor.

When I touch the GE 2DA to the single wire side of the AV plug my LED's drop to about 1/4 brilliance and the relative current drawn from the battery drops 25%. I'm holding the neon lamp with an insulated pair of electronic pliers. This circuit is certainly sensitive to load changes.

I'm still searching through my solid state collection for a better switching transistor. By Monday I'll just order the best I can find at Moser or Digi Key. The PN100 transistor recommended by KZEP4 only has a VCE of 40 volts. This circuit has exceeded that parameter already and is running at 60V. I'm sure a faster transistor with a higher gain will push that voltage even higher. It appears that the requirements of this circuit are the best of all worlds. High Gain, High Frequency Response (gain bandwidth product), VCE in excess of 200V and an Ic on the order of an Amp. Then when we get to that power level we will need an even bigger transistor. I suppose the maximum power imit for this circuit will be reached with the maximum useful saturation current of the Ferrite coil assembly.

The proposal of using a "Tickler" coil on one end of the Ferrite core to observe what is happening there is a most excellent idea. I shall employ that method shortly.

Thank you for your useful comments, May the experiments proceed.

Spokane1
I have this problem of thinking what I say everyone will understand and I sometimes am to short on my statements and leave out meaningful info.

The neon test is just like you did it and Yes if you have LEDS running when you perform it, they should dim. See the post I made to Stefan in regards to SEC and how I envision it to work in a basic overview. What is happening is that you are increasing the circuit coupling to the environment and reducing the Spacial Energy Transfer by altering the capacity division of the circuit and interface coupling.

When an antenna is used in some circuits it only allows the AV Plug to better couple to the surrounding environment and draw current from it, this is NOT the same as Spatial Energy Coherence, therefor the addition of circuit capacity in any way will and should reduce your output.

Great work and effort you and all the others are putting in here.

We are closely approaching enough mass (number of working circuits) that we will soon explore self running. Before we do, everyone with a working circuit must see some gain over unity byt one or more of the various methods, otherwise they will suffer total frustration.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 24, 2007, 04:10:31 PM
Dear Dr. Stiffler and Fellow Associates,

I'm half way there with the neon lamp test. As you can see from the photo the lamp will brightly illuminate both internal electrodes. But when testing for the single electrode illumination I get zip when using the large GE D2A. Now if I switch to a smaller 4mm Red/Orange device then I get both electrodes illuminated on the single wire side of the AV plug. I then get a dim light on one electrode from the positive diode and then both electrodes are active on the negative side of the other AV diode. Perhaps my IN4148's are unable to deal with the approximate 300 V generated. I need to upgrade them as well as the switching transistor.

When I touch the GE 2DA to the single wire side of the AV plug my LED's drop to about 1/4 brilliance and the relative current drawn from the battery drops 25%. I'm holding the neon lamp with an insulated pair of electronic pliers. This circuit is certainly sensitive to load changes.

I'm still searching through my solid state collection for a better switching transistor. By Monday I'll just order the best I can find at Moser or Digi Key. The PN100 transistor recommended by KZEP4 only has a VCE of 40 volts. This circuit has exceeded that parameter already and is running at 60V. I'm sure a faster transistor with a higher gain will push that voltage even higher. It appears that the requirements of this circuit are the best of all worlds. High Gain, High Frequency Response (gain bandwidth product), VCE in excess of 200V and an Ic on the order of an Amp. Then when we get to that power level we will need an even bigger transistor. I suppose the maximum power imit for this circuit will be reached with the maximum useful saturation current of the Ferrite coil assembly.

The proposal of using a "Tickler" coil on one end of the Ferrite core to observe what is happening there is a most excellent idea. I shall employ that method shortly.

Thank you for your useful comments, May the experiments proceed.

Spokane1
I have this problem of thinking what I say everyone will understand and I sometimes am to short on my statements and leave out meaningful info.

The neon test is just like you did it and Yes if you have LEDS running when you perform it, they should dim. See the post I made to Stefan in regards to SEC and how I envision it to work in a basic overview. What is happening is that you are increasing the circuit coupling to the environment and reducing the Spacial Energy Transfer by altering the capacity division of the circuit and interface coupling.

When an antenna is used in some circuits it only allows the AV Plug to better couple to the surrounding environment and draw current from it, this is NOT the same as Spatial Energy Coherence, therefor the addition of circuit capacity in any way will and should reduce your output.

Great work and effort you and all the others are putting in here.

We are closely approaching enough mass (number of working circuits) that we will soon explore self running. Before we do, everyone with a working circuit must see some gain over unity byt one or more of the various methods, otherwise they will suffer total frustration.
Hi Dr. Stiffler,
Have you ever tried using a "honeycomb" or spider wound coil?  These are used as low C. coils in very successful crystal radios...just a curiosity. Self running will be most exciting and with the creativity pool available!?  Who Knows?

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2007, 04:26:57 PM
Hi Ron,
many thanks for the tips with the closed winding couplings. I have also seen, that sometimes it was better, when I pressed the 9 turn coil with my hand onto the litz coil. So I will now explore this deeper and try a closer coupling.
My next question is, does the pickup sense coil not have its own resonances with the scope heads capacitance ? Hmmm... I will try this and let you know. Ron, how many windings does your sense coil have and what wire diameter ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 04:55:30 PM
Hi Ron,
many thanks for the tips with the closed winding couplings. I have also seen, that sometimes it was better, when I pressed the 9 turn coil with my hand onto the litz coil. So I will now explore this deeper and try a closer coupling.
My next question is, does the pickup sense coil not have its own resonances with the scope heads capacitance ? Hmmm... I will try this and let you know. Ron, how many windings does your sense coil have and what wire diameter ?
Many thanks.

Stefan here is the sense coil I use.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 24, 2007, 05:15:39 PM
UPDATE: Well, I tried another radio and the same thing happens.

Hi Dave!  Have you tried introducing a permanent magnet into the vicinity while the AM radio is in feedback?  Stefan's video of the effects of a magnetic field in the vicinity of the coil was interesting, and i'm wondering if the microphonic effect is due to acoustic disturbance of the circuit, or if it's picking up a field from the speaker driver.  You might also be able to test it with some earbud headphones off of the radio.  Put one in your ear and the other one backwards near the coil to see if it picks up the small driver in there.

Just a thought..feel free to skip it! :) 

I'm not sure i know what i'm looking at, but it's an interesting thread nonetheless! :P

Yes, I have tried powerful magnets near the core and they do indeed have an effect. It was exciting to see but I found that repositioning the core while the circuit is operating had the same effect. With my crude ways of measuring I could not detect a 'gain' by using the magnets v.s. tuning. I did add a second litz coil in series at the plug (470uh) and left the core loose for experimental tuning. With this minor modification I am able to drive 56 LEDs and light the neon brightly while pulling 100ma from a 9volt radio battery. (Photo is from this morning).
I spent part of last night running the audio output of the transistor radio into the computer and listening through the headphones. This effectivly decoupled any accoustic signals between the radio and circuit. When set up for full quieting on the radio the core in the SEC circuit is highly microphonic. The stange part is the entire radio chassis is also microphonic. I believe if I added more audio gain I could use the combination of the SEC circuit and the radio as a microphone and record/capture my voice.
Oh, and pay special heed to Dr Stifflers advice on keeping lead lenghts short and close to the proto board. As you can see, you will barely see my circuit on the board.
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2007, 05:42:02 PM
@retrod:
Well done.
Good to see you also using a second litz coil in front of the AP.

Now the next step would be to try to bring the input current down, while keeping the brightness at the same level.
By adjusting the coils on the core, move them around and using a magnet nearby you can play around, so that you will get almost the same brightness at half the input current. A scope to check the waveform at the collector to emitter or via a sense coil as Ron suggested will fully help.

Many thanks Ron for posting the sense coil pic.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 24, 2007, 05:45:15 PM
@All,

now that I have "Thomas design" device working and scorpio posted his replication I must ask this question. Please no offence to anyone or Dr. Stiffler for this question. Look at the picture from scorpio and notice where I replace the left box with my FuncGen and on the right instead of an antenna I have my 250ft lamp wire cable about 23awg (well pretty much an antenna as EMdevices stated rightly so).

Why would using a FuncGen the LEDs being lit would be explained by "Stray Capacitance / Resonance / Transmission lines" but NOT Dr. Stiffler Thomas design device?

I am a little confused. How can I know, or what are the procedures should I follow (sorry for not being that well versed in electronics and electrical engineering principles) to know for sure both designs are not working because of RF? For me FuncGen and THomas oscilator are pretty much the same except that with Thomas design it self-regulates to the correct frequency while the FuncGen I must do it manually. With both designes I was able to light all those LEDs, have the neon lamp lit and exactly the same wave pattern on the osciloscope.

I am only trying to understand the difference because I believe there lies one of the secrets. I am pretty sure Dr. Stiffer has an answer for that (please Dr. do not be upset with my question even though I already seen this kind of question many times on the beggining of our quest on this thread).

Fausto.

ps: the picture shows that I connect one lead of the FuncGen to the 470p cap at the base of the transitor. Replace only the transistor, resistor, L1, caps from the battery and battery with FuncGen.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2007, 05:49:21 PM
With my BC 555, which by the way are very cheap, I bought about 50 pieces for around 1.50 Euros, about 2 US$, it is recommended to keep the input current below 40 mA, otherwise this transistor gets too hot. Sometimes I was able to get the input current down to 15 mA and keep the same brightness as when I used 40 mA of input current.  So you really have to tune the used waveform for minimum input current while keeping the output constant...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 06:27:25 PM
@All,

now that I have "Thomas design" device working and scorpio posted his replication I must ask this question. Please no offence to anyone or Dr. Stiffler for this question. Look at the picture from scorpio and notice where I replace the left box with my FuncGen and on the right instead of an antenna I have my 250ft lamp wire cable about 23awg (well pretty much an antenna as EMdevices stated rightly so).

Why would using a FuncGen the LEDs being lit would be explained by "Stray Capacitance / Resonance / Transmission lines" but NOT Dr. Stiffler Thomas design device?

I am a little confused. How can I know, or what are the procedures should I follow (sorry for not being that well versed in electronics and electrical engineering principles) to know for sure both designs are not working because of RF? For me FuncGen and THomas oscilator are pretty much the same except that with Thomas design it self-regulates to the correct frequency while the FuncGen I must do it manually. With both designes I was able to light all those LEDs, have the neon lamp lit and exactly the same wave pattern on the osciloscope.

I am only trying to understand the difference because I believe there lies one of the secrets. I am pretty sure Dr. Stiffer has an answer for that (please Dr. do not be upset with my question even though I already seen this kind of question many times on the beggining of our quest on this thread).

Fausto.

ps: the picture shows that I connect one lead of the FuncGen to the 470p cap at the base of the transitor. Replace only the transistor, resistor, L1, caps from the battery and battery with FuncGen.
@plengo

Don't worry about upsetting me, I have recently developed a thicker skin.

Look back a couple of post, one I made to Stefan on an overview (simple) covering SEC. How do you tell the difference and how do you know its not RF?

You know the difference when you can measure a unity > 1.
It is RF, but the way it reacts to the environment is very different. Closed RF systems with an antenna will radiate (provided the correct impedances are present) or will heat a dummy load. With the AV plug you see an environmental coupling if you use an antenna, that is why (depending on where you connect it) you will see either an increase in brightness and input current or a decrease in brightness.

In SEC you still have a circuit to Spatial Frame coupling (call it environment if you wish) but you absorb energy without pulling it from you supply source. It become somewhat more difficult to obtain the coupling when the the primary and secondary are closed, it becomes very sensitive. I doubt very much that I will present a closed system that does this. I much prefer my original where one end of the primary and one end of the secondary are open.

I know I have mentioned it before in the thread, but it being so long I will again, 'SEC is based on voltage NOT current, it is a capacitive coupling effect and not inductive, SEC (to the best of my work) does not take place unless the output of the AV Plug is 100 or more volts.'

The problem that is apparent here is that some people want dearly to explain this as totally conventional, yet can not explain the excess energy, therefore in their minds it does not exist. I am trying to integrate as much conventional as possible, yet I go a bit further and try to explain (outside of convention) where the actual energy is coming from.

This is a big can of worms until all of you with working circuits can show some of that energy, until such time all the conventionalist's will rule and we will revisit you question over and over and over.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 06:33:55 PM
With my BC 555, which by the way are very cheap, I bought about 50 pieces for around 1.50 Euros, about 2 US$, it is recommended to keep the input current below 40 mA, otherwise this transistor gets too hot. Sometimes I was able to get the input current down to 15 mA and keep the same brightness as when I used 40 mA of input current.  So you really have to tune the used waveform for minimum input current while keeping the output constant...
Stefan!

Can you not order from US? or do they charge you different. A number of us have purchased hundreds of the PN100, PN200, MPSA06 for pennies. My last order for MPSA06 was $0.016ea. At least this way you can burn them and not cry. I get most of my parts from www.jameco.com although you need to watch them as sometimes they (drop ship) so you freight can eat you up.

Anyway $2 US is awful.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 24, 2007, 07:15:47 PM
Dear Non-funded Researchers,

If you are considering developing improved variations to the blocking oscillator portion of the Thomas Driver, then as a suggestion ?don?t re-invent the wheel? see what the experts were doing 60 years ago. I believe that most modern electronic theory courses don?t cover this once important circuit. There are at least a hundred or more potential improvements that can still be made to the Dr. Stiffler technology and many of them are waiting to be rediscovered in the old texts of analog electronics.

Mr. Hartmann and others have already proposed a number of improvements, all of which have merit and need to be explored in detail. The latest is the addition of a coil between the Thomas Driver and the AV plug. Believe it or not this variation is called a delay-line blocking oscillator and is discussed in detail in the book "Waveforms" (see below). I think we have only touched the surface of what this modification can provide.

Meanwhile, here is a partial list of some excellent technical books that you might have a good chance of finding at your local college library. Or, if you have the $$ you can buy them off on the Internet. There are a lot of other good reports on blocking oscillators out there, but many are hidden in the journals of professional organizations (i.e. IEEE Proceedings).

1) ?Waveforms?, edited by Britton Chance, Vernon Hughes, Edward F. MacNichol, David Sayre and Frederic C. Williams 1949 McGraw Hill Book Co.  Reprinted by Dover in 1965 Library of Congress Number 65-22733

2) ?Pulse Electronics? Ralph Litttauer 1965 McGraw-Hill Inc. Library of Congress Number 64-22195

3) ?Pulse and Digital Circuits? Jacob Millman and Herbert Taub 1956 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 55-11930

4) ?Pulse, Digital, and Switching Waveforms? Jacob Millman and Herbert Taub 1965 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 64-66293

5) ?Basic Pulse Circuits? Richard Blitzer (RCA Institutes) 1964 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 63-15107


Submitted for your consideration,

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 24, 2007, 07:29:03 PM
You know the difference when you can measure a unity > 1.
It is RF, but the way it reacts to the environment is very different. Closed RF systems with an antenna will radiate (provided the correct impedances are present) or will heat a dummy load. With the AV plug you see an environmental coupling if you use an antenna, that is why (depending on where you connect it) you will see either an increase in brightness and input current or a decrease in brightness.
Thank you Dr. Stiffler. Now it makes perfect sence to me. So in other words (if I understood you right) with conventional models the antenna approach (shown on the previous pics and posts of mine) the device would be emitting energy out from the source, but with SEC (properly tunned) will draw energy (may be from the antenna in my example or the coil) into the device, the opposite of the conventional model which would be a problem because of errouneous EM models.

And you right, depending where I connect my "antenna" in the circuit it will bright the LEDs or dim them. I have experienced both and that's exactly where I started doubting the conventional model.

If you right about the SEC then would be correct to predict that any "antenna" attached to this device would not get hot? Should the LEDs run cold? and possible our future load? And If I understood you right, SEC being "capacitive" the load we will endup putting onto this system will only work if we make the load "less capacitive" and SEC device (or vice-versa)?

Another question: do you see this "cold electricity" (may be radiant?) with properties similiar to fluid or gaseous? If yes, would that be an explanation for the "microphonics" effect we seen in one of the other fellas here ? My opinion is that it is gaseous somehow and when ones hands approach the device it affects its radiant flow and since our coil is working somehow as an "antenna" but in reverse mode (withdrawing energy from the environment) it is also affecting the coils inside the radio with miscroscopic perfection thus modulation.

So many questions so little time. I really appreciate your work Dr. Stiffler.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 24, 2007, 07:46:19 PM
Dear Non-funded Researchers,

If you are considering developing improved variations to the blocking oscillator portion of the Thomas Driver, then as a suggestion ?don?t re-invent the wheel? see what the experts were doing 60 years ago. I believe that most modern electronic theory courses don?t cover this once important circuit. There are at least a hundred or more potential improvements that can still be made to the Dr. Stiffler technology and many of them are waiting to be rediscovered in the old texts of analog electronics.

Mr. Hartmann and others have already proposed a number of improvements, all of which have merit and need to be explored in detail. The latest is the addition of a coil between the Thomas Driver and the AV plug. Believe it or not this variation is called a delay-line blocking oscillator and is discussed in detail in the book "Waveforms" (see below). I think we have only touched the surface of what this modification can provide.

Meanwhile, here is a partial list of some excellent technical books that you might have a good chance of finding at your local college library. Or, if you have the $$ you can buy them off on the Internet. There are a lot of other good reports on blocking oscillators out there, but many are hidden in the journals of professional organizations (i.e. IEEE Proceedings).

1) ?Waveforms?, edited by Britton Chance, Vernon Hughes, Edward F. MacNichol, David Sayre and Frederic C. Williams 1949 McGraw Hill Book Co.  Reprinted by Dover in 1965 Library of Congress Number 65-22733

2) ?Pulse Electronics? Ralph Litttauer 1965 McGraw-Hill Inc. Library of Congress Number 64-22195

3) ?Pulse and Digital Circuits? Jacob Millman and Herbert Taub 1956 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 55-11930

4) ?Pulse, Digital, and Switching Waveforms? Jacob Millman and Herbert Taub 1965 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 64-66293

5) ?Basic Pulse Circuits? Richard Blitzer (RCA Institutes) 1964 McGraw-Hill Book Company, Inc. Library of Congress Number 63-15107


Submitted for your consideration,

Spokane1

Hi Spokane1 and all,

The "blocking Osc" is older than I am and I'm considered ancient by my kids..It is ironic,I believe that John Bedini said many years ago that the blocking Osc. and its variants were the only circuit that he found to collect/release the energy that his designs use. Again, the common thread, ..It would appear that there is SO much information that has been discovered and lost over time that it is no longer funny........We have so much to rediscover, reapply, reconsider and do all over again!  All I can say is "Ain't we got fun!?" 

The above is so much EXCELLENT reference material!  Wow............Keep up the good work everyone!

Ben K4ZEP
P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 24, 2007, 08:47:50 PM
You know the difference when you can measure a unity > 1.
It is RF, but the way it reacts to the environment is very different. Closed RF systems with an antenna will radiate (provided the correct impedances are present) or will heat a dummy load. With the AV plug you see an environmental coupling if you use an antenna, that is why (depending on where you connect it) you will see either an increase in brightness and input current or a decrease in brightness.
Thank you Dr. Stiffler. Now it makes perfect sence to me. So in other words (if I understood you right) with conventional models the antenna approach (shown on the previous pics and posts of mine) the device would be emitting energy out from the source, but with SEC (properly tunned) will draw energy (may be from the antenna in my example or the coil) into the device, the opposite of the conventional model which would be a problem because of errouneous EM models.

And you right, depending where I connect my "antenna" in the circuit it will bright the LEDs or dim them. I have experienced both and that's exactly where I started doubting the conventional model.

If you right about the SEC then would be correct to predict that any "antenna" attached to this device would not get hot? Should the LEDs run cold? and possible our future load? And If I understood you right, SEC being "capacitive" the load we will endup putting onto this system will only work if we make the load "less capacitive" and SEC device (or vice-versa)?

Another question: do you see this "cold electricity" (may be radiant?) with properties similiar to fluid or gaseous? If yes, would that be an explanation for the "microphonics" effect we seen in one of the other fellas here ? My opinion is that it is gaseous somehow and when ones hands approach the device it affects its radiant flow and since our coil is working somehow as an "antenna" but in reverse mode (withdrawing energy from the environment) it is also affecting the coils inside the radio with miscroscopic perfection thus modulation.

So many questions so little time. I really appreciate your work Dr. Stiffler.

Fausto.
Most of your questions will have to wait until I finish my paper, indeed what you all are doing is providing me with additional information that either fits or does not into my main idea of SEC. I do not have at this time have and may never all the answers, but I (we) are obtaining more by the day.

I do not want to dampen you endeavor, but I am not surprised by the micro-phonics you have experienced. If you adjust a tank circuit of high Q to the same frequency that a radio is tuned they lock or as I explain it maintain a virtual space. When you tap one it changes the resonant frequency or modulates the coupling between the tuned circuits, thus the micro-phonics. You should be able to do the same thing with two radios, one turned On and the other turned Off. Place them fairly close and tune the radio that is Off to the frequency of the one that is On. You should be able to experience a similar effect.

The LEDS appear to be 'Thermal Neutral', they cool enough to offset the heat they would normally produce.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 24, 2007, 09:42:30 PM
Quote from RStiffler
[/quote]
Most of your questions will have to wait until I finish my paper, indeed what you all are doing is providing me with additional information that either fits or does not into my main idea of SEC. I do not have at this time have and may never all the answers, but I (we) are obtaining more by the day.

I do not want to dampen you endeavor, but I am not surprised by the micro-phonics you have experienced. If you adjust a tank circuit of high Q to the same frequency that a radio is tuned they lock or as I explain it maintain a virtual space. When you tap one it changes the resonant frequency or modulates the coupling between the tuned circuits, thus the micro-phonics. You should be able to do the same thing with two radios, one turned On and the other turned Off. Place them fairly close and tune the radio that is Off to the frequency of the one that is On. You should be able to experience a similar effect.

The LEDS appear to be 'Thermal Neutral', they cool enough to offset the heat they would normally produce.
[/quote]
Dr Stiffler is correct, the micro-phonics can be simulated using two radios close together, I just tried it. What I noticed is that within the field of the SEC the effect is much more pronounced. Today I did a test and was able to use the micro-phonic radio as a contact microphone and record to my computer. A second radio tuned to a local station is turned up loud to vibrate the micro-phonic radio. The YouTube video has the soundtrack from the micro-phonic radio. Something fades in at the end, might be another station or ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=051gD0NZ0P4

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 03:38:10 AM
@ Retrod:

Actually, I think it was the song "Angel in the morning" that was causing this effect. (Ha, ha.)  Just kidding.  Nice work in leading us into a fascintating area.  Which radio was on in the video?

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 25, 2007, 04:01:04 AM
@ Retrod:

Actually, I think it was the song "Angel in the morning" that was causing this effect. (Ha, ha.)  Just kidding.  Nice work in leading us into a fascintating area.  Which radio was on in the video?

Bill

Both radios are on. The SEC is 'tuned' to the blue one. This blue radio is being recorded by my computer so the speaker is cut out. The video is modified so you are only hearing the blue radio, not the black one. The blue radio is so micro-phonic in the SEC field all I had to do was turn up the black radio behind it and get a good sound pickup. I was running tests tonite with a Tri-Field EM meter. In the meters 'radio' position I get a strong signal off the LED bank. It was pegged on the mw/CM2 scale but I had the meter maybe six inches from the LEDs, that was the 'hot' spot.

I also listened to the light output by using a 931-a photomultiplier tube and also a phototransistor. The phototransistor is mounted in a digital voice recorder in place of a normal microphone. This recorder is very sensitive to any modulations or vibrations of light, at least in the audio frequency range. On playback I got several speech fragments that do not sound like a radio broadcast. I'll post one and then drop the subject as it does not relate directly to OU, just something to think about.
This is what I hear.
"We want/run a tester that's different....Cleveland had a smart kid"

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 04:44:56 AM
Retrod:

Wow!!! That is really weird.  Does not sound like a radio broadcast to me either...I listened to it several times.  Air control maybe?  Do you live anywhere near an airport?  Or, possible a jet flying over your position maybe?  It had that clipped sound that pilots seem to use...well them and air traffic controlers.  Just a wild guess on my part.  Thanks for sharing that.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on November 25, 2007, 05:25:47 AM

That sounds a lot like the recordings of possible spirit voices which ghost hunters record at reportedly haunted places - its called 'electronic voice phenomenon' or EVP.

Very interesting tho.

Regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 25, 2007, 05:35:31 AM
Yeah,
sounds simular to the EVP I recorded once from my long time ago 1907
deceased great grandoncle when I did a EVP phenomen test...
Strange, indeed...
no joke... :o ::)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 25, 2007, 05:38:20 AM


I know I have mentioned it before in the thread, but it being so long I will again, 'SEC is based on voltage NOT current, it is a capacitive coupling effect and not inductive, SEC (to the best of my work) does not take place unless the output of the AV Plug is 100 or more volts.'


Hi Ron,
thanks for the info.
So does this mean, that we can see no overunity if we will not at least
use about 50 LEDs in series after the AP plug to get the voltage high enough there ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 25, 2007, 05:39:16 AM
Gee I hope it is not EVP.  I heard recordings of EVP on a late night radio show once and it scared the crap out of me!!!!!

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 25, 2007, 05:52:15 AM
Maybe it would be best to use for the LITZ coil some kind of Tesla-flat coil
design, where the coil is bufilar wound but not for cancelling the magnetic field
but for getting a higher "inner capacitance" of the coil itsself.

Have a look at.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifilar_coil

Especially this would be helpful for the SEC effect:

"An early example of the bifilar coil can be seen in Nikola Tesla's United States patent 512,340 of 1894. Tesla explains that in some applications (which he does not specify) the self-inductance of a conventional coil is undesired and has to be neutralised by adding external capacitors. The bifilar coil in this configuration has increased self-capacitance, thereby saving the cost of the capacitors. It is notable that this is not the kind of bifilar winding used in non-inductive wirewound resistors where the windings are wired anti-series to null out self-inductance."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 25, 2007, 06:05:30 AM
Gee I hope it is not EVP.  I heard recordings of EVP on a late night radio show once and it scared the crap out of me!!!!!

Bill

Yep, I believe it is EVP. I tried one more recording tonight using the SEC light as a signal source. It's very noisy but I hear my first name and they are saying what I was doing at the time.
"Dave is testing the optical carrier"
That's it from me on the subject, back to the SEC improvements.
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 25, 2007, 06:14:52 AM
If you really want to hear a spooky EVP recording I did about 2.5 years ago live with a spiritual
being have a listening to this:

http://harti.com/tbs/antwort.mp3


But it was recorded differently...
but it is too hard to explain here now and too much offtopic...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 25, 2007, 06:21:27 AM
I also listened to the light output by using a 931-a photomultiplier tube and also a phototransistor. The phototransistor is mounted in a digital voice recorder in place of a normal microphone. This recorder is very sensitive to any modulations or vibrations of light, at least in the audio frequency range. On playback I got several speech fragments that do not sound like a radio broadcast. I'll post one and then drop the subject as it does not relate directly to OU, just something to think about.
This is what I hear.
"We want/run a tester that's different....Cleveland had a smart kid"

Dave

We all know that familiar sound from The Empire Strikes Back, don't we? ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: leeroyjenkinsii on November 25, 2007, 07:28:11 AM
You guys sound like whackos with this ghost stuff...not researchers.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 25, 2007, 08:38:10 AM
That recording just sounds like garbled noise to me, I think you'd have to try pretty hard to get something out of it.

Anyhow, I've got the thomas oscillator working (I finally received my coils). So far, i've only got a voltage of 32V out of it, but thats cos thats all the LEDs I have to use. I'll be buying a lot more LEDs tommorow, and will give an update on the results.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 25, 2007, 09:23:10 AM
A weird effect I just noticed, is that if you switch the polarity of one of the LEDs in the chain, then while that LED turns off, all the other LEDs remain on, at the same brightness. Seems a bit weird...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 25, 2007, 11:25:39 AM
A weird effect I just noticed, is that if you switch the polarity of one of the LEDs in the chain, then while that LED turns off, all the other LEDs remain on, at the same brightness. Seems a bit weird...
Instead of making a simple in series chain of all same polarity facing diodes (LEDS), try making a series "AV" plug from the LEDS themselves.

That is, bypass the signal diodes altogether, kill off the capacitor in the AV circuit if your using one, they are not needed, and instead connect one end of the secondary to a series of "AV LEDS" which is simply one LED facing one direction in parallel with another LED in the opposite direction. 2 LEDS in opposite direction make an "AV LED". Now simply hook up as many of these "AV LED" pairs in series as you can. I have 50 Leds making up 25 "AV LEDS" and the interesting thing to note is, each pair of LEDS adds to the total brightness of all the other LEDS as the plug chain grows with each added "AV LED" pair. At the end of the chain is a 20 cm piece of wire.

Another interesting thing is that the LEDS dim if they are connected from the end of the led chain in a closed loop to the other end of the secondary. Not sure what to make of that, probably just de-tuning. The resonance seems to self - adjust to each increase (decrease?) in load when adding the LED pairs, when the loop is open.

Oh yeh, I'm using a simple blocking oscillator AKA "Thomas" running on 12 V supply. Small PNP transistors, (x2) to share the load. Primary of antenna connected in series with a 600 ohm centre tap transformer in place of "L1" as a choke. Helps to protect those little transistors by limmiting the current through the primary, but enhancing the voltage in the total primary loop.

My Antenna windings are completely unknown!

It's a sealed unit, but there is a schematic on the outside showing it consists of a primary, with a centre tapped secondary.
Core is ferrite approximately 80 mm long by 8 mm diameter - from what I can see?  And that's Not Much !  :D
Shows how wide the parameters for this thing may be!  :D  :D

A Strange circuit indeed! Interesting for sure! And oh yeh, it's got bite when you touch it in the wrong place lightly. Ouch
Bright lights making me dizzy...............KneeDeep   :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 25, 2007, 01:29:43 PM
@All,
Please take care as some LEDs ( specially the blue ones ) can emit UV light which can damage your eyes permanently.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on November 25, 2007, 01:41:08 PM
It seems that the current in reverse polarity thing is probably just that the circuit puts the voltage to a level which can pass current through an LED. I haven't got a power supply which can supply 40V, so I can't test this, but it would be great if somebody else could...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 25, 2007, 04:02:39 PM
@All,
Please take care as some LEDs ( specially the blue ones ) can emit UV light which can damage your eyes permanently.

All LEDs can hurt the eyes to some extent because of the energy delivered, especially the high mcd ones, regardless if they are in visible or invisible spectrum.

Let's hope everyone heeds your words of caution...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 25, 2007, 04:18:06 PM
Instead of making a simple in series chain of all same polarity facing diodes (LEDS), try making a series "AV" plug from the LEDS themselves.

That is, bypass the signal diodes altogether, kill off the capacitor in the AV circuit if your using one, they are not needed, and instead connect one end of the secondary to a series of "AV LEDS" which is simply one LED facing one direction in parallel with another LED in the opposite direction. 2 LEDS in opposite direction make an "AV LED". Now simply hook up as many of these "AV LED" pairs in series as you can. I have 50 Leds making up 25 "AV LEDS" and the interesting thing to note is, each pair of LEDS adds to the total brightness of all the other LEDS as the plug chain grows with each added "AV LED" pair. At the end of the chain is a 20 cm piece of wire.

hoptoad,

pretty interesting idea, this way we take the energy directly off the single wire before it is converted, but just to confirm here's a schematic? :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 25, 2007, 07:08:25 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,

do you know where I could find the "L1 2.2uH, Core Diameter 6.49mm Coil Width 2.80mm Wire 0.58mm enamal coated"?

And one super stupid question: how can I find the uH of a coil with regular tools such as multimeter, osciloscope?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 25, 2007, 07:17:30 PM
I have been using this AV LED setup for quit a while now but the reason I was using was only because of the AC of the FuncGen. I also notice that with this device it does behave very weirdly. No matter how you connect the LEDs somehow I still have current in the middle of all of them and some voltage.

One more interesting thing that happened was I was trying to see if this electricity would conduct through water and guess what happened? Electrolisis. Not that this is something special ( I have been watching john Aaron at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT1zudn-yTM for quit sometime now) it is that I got electrolisis with only 100ma, thats another story all together.

Aaron get his hydrogen using 12v with 10 Amps and I am getting, off course a lot of less hydrogen, with only 20v 100ma. There is something special about what kind of wire I am using too and its physical shape. I posted a video about it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDCWaSFnSkg.

Fausto.

ps: purchasing LEDs on ebay from this guys in China is absolutely the cheapest I ever seen. 100 LEDs 15000 mcd for only $1 dollar plus $12 shipping and also 100 LEDs 5mm Red or Blue or White 5000mcd for again $1 and $6 shipping. Isn' that unreal? on jamenco was about $1.80 per LED!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 25, 2007, 07:18:39 PM
2 LEDS in opposite direction make an "AV LED". Now simply hook up as many of these "AV LED" pairs in series as you can. I have 50 Leds making up 25 "AV LEDS" and the interesting thing to note is, each pair of LEDS adds to the total brightness of all the other LEDS as the plug chain grows with each added "AV LED" pair. At the end of the chain is a 20 cm piece of wire.


Well, it will probably also work, if you don?t have a connection bridge after every 2 LEDs,
so 2 long rows of antiparallel LEDs in series.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Caracole on November 25, 2007, 07:59:47 PM
Have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJvFd3pYBnM

THIS VIDEO NOT EXIST !

Amazing !

I hope Dr. Stiffler will publish the exact circuit.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S:His website is at:
www.stifflerscientific.com

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 25, 2007, 08:35:04 PM
This afternoon I have finished a series of test with the Stiffer experiment. The basic experiment setup in based to the scheme "Thomas Oscillator". The figure called: "Experiment setup 4 - 800.jpg" look the scheme and my modify. The power system is an alimentator.
In this experiment I have wanted to use a LED for the comparison of the values of brightness. In other thread of this discussion had been introduced the problem to determine the real brightness of the LEDs. The human eye succeeds in distinguishing well the differences of brightness but not the absolute brightness, for this I have inserted a test LED regulated by a potenziometer (look the picture called "Experiment setup 3 - 800.jpg").
Regulating in opportune way the potenziometer the two LEDs will have the same brightness, at this point it is possible to read the consumption of the LED of comparison (Always powered with the same tension of the apparatus) with that of the whole apparatus.
Tolerance should be of + /- 20%, but I don't consider the certain experiment if the values of consumption of the apparatus don't differ than at least the 50% of the calculated ones using the LED of comparison.
For example, look the "Experiment Setup 1- 800.jpg":
The left multimeter report the absorb current of apparatus, value is 153 mA
The rigth multimeter report the absorb current of comparison LED 6,5 mA
The LED array is composed by 50 LED (linked in series)
Every LED absorb 153/50 = 3 mA vi s value is less then 6,5 mA of comparison LED.
In other tests I have noticed that for 160 MA of consumption of the apparatus (3,2 mA for LED), the LED of comparison report 8,5 mA, equal to almost 2,5 times.

Causes the poor Italian postal service, I have not succeeded in getting from USA the spool used by Stiffer, I have decided to build it, with the data brought in the figure: called "Experiment setup 3 - 800.jpg"
The tension in exit is inferior and this surely makes less quality results, but it shows that it is possible to build interesting varyanting, using other type of material.

Best regards
Adriano
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 25, 2007, 08:35:47 PM
comments on circuit:

I have been wrong before and I could be wrong again. But, the circuit performance seems to depend on just where the parasitic capacitance is coupled into it. If it is coupled as in fig.1 then there is rectified RF going through LED diodes. If it is coupled as in fig.2 then there is DC going through he LED diodes. In both cases the capacitor charges to the peak to peak voltage across the two paths. Since Dr. Stiffler has DC on his LED diodes, he would seem to have a circuit performing as in fig. 2. Parasitic capacitance exists between any two points, so it is not a matter of where it exits but rather how large the capacitance is. RF current will flow most where the capacitance is largest. To duplicate his circuit perhaps extra parasitic capacitance should be added at the ends of the capacitor.

Note, rectified RF looks like DC on a volt meter so a scope is needed to see it. Another way to tell is to insert a series capacitor, DC will not flow through the capacitor but rectified RF will. Reverse biasing a diode will turn it into a capacitor but the capacitance may not be large enough to pass much current unless the frequency is very high.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 25, 2007, 08:37:54 PM
And one super stupid question: how can I find the uH of a coil with regular tools such as multimeter, osciloscope?

You can build one pretty cheap using a PIC16F84A, here's a schematic (http://electronics-diy.com/lc_meter.php).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 25, 2007, 08:47:54 PM
For some reason fig. 1 did not get posted.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 25, 2007, 09:09:54 PM
I have been using this AV LED setup for quit a while now but the reason I was using was only because of the AC of the FuncGen. I also notice that with this device it does behave very weirdly. No matter how you connect the LEDs somehow I still have current in the middle of all of them and some voltage.

One more interesting thing that happened was I was trying to see if this electricity would conduct through water and guess what happened? Electrolisis. Not that this is something special ( I have been watching john Aaron at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT1zudn-yTM for quit sometime now) it is that I got electrolisis with only 100ma, thats another story all together.

Aaron get his hydrogen using 12v with 10 Amps and I am getting, off course a lot of less hydrogen, with only 20v 100ma. There is something special about what kind of wire I am using too and its physical shape. I posted a video about it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDCWaSFnSkg.

Fausto.

ps: purchasing LEDs on ebay from this guys in China is absolutely the cheapest I ever seen. 100 LEDs 15000 mcd for only $1 dollar plus $12 shipping and also 100 LEDs 5mm Red or Blue or White 5000mcd for again $1 and $6 shipping. Isn' that unreal? on jamenco was about $1.80 per LED!!!
LEDS we buy come from www.besthongkong.com, when I mentioned JameCo I did not mean to imply that everything we  use comes from there. The Ebay LEDS may be Ok, but I have had good luck with BestHongKong, 2-4 failures in 1k units and they seem to stand up for a good amount of time in SEC driven circuits.

JameCo is best for transistors, MOSFETS, Diodes, Capacitors and Resistors. In fact I just obtained 100ea 10uf@350V for $0.126ea. and 1kuf@50v for $0.36. Its the same story, shop, but JameCo has some good buys if you know what you are buying.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 25, 2007, 09:19:17 PM
And one super stupid question: how can I find the uH of a coil with regular tools such as multimeter, osciloscope?

You can build one pretty cheap using a PIC16F84A, here's a schematic (http://electronics-diy.com/lc_meter.php).
Thank you amigo, that was a very good kit. I just bought it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 25, 2007, 10:09:31 PM
After reading Fausto's post I thought to try an electrolysis add on myself. When I connected the two leads I found I had stray RF all over the place, especially the AA battery pack I was using for power.
I grabbed a nearby compact spiral light and proceed to find the best spot to partially light it up. This turned out to be the positive buss on the protoboard. The water cell consists of some isolated SS washers in a common mason jar. The electrolyte consists of tap water and pyroclay (gotta use this stuff somewhere). According to my EM meter the RF field doubled when I added the water cell.
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 25, 2007, 10:29:14 PM
JameCo is best for transistors, MOSFETS, Diodes, Capacitors and Resistors. In fact I just obtained 100ea 10uf@350V for $0.126ea. and 1kuf@50v for $0.36. Its the same story, shop, but JameCo has some good buys if you know what you are buying.

I always found Jameco the most expensive of the bunch and had far more better deals from Digi-key, Mouser, even Newark InOne. Another good source of cheap parts is Futurlec with some great deals, and the usual suspects such as All Electronics, Electronic Goldmine and B.G. Micro.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 25, 2007, 10:31:51 PM
Thank you amigo, that was a very good kit. I just bought it.

Welcome, though I meant to build it not buy it because $60 is kinda steep for the parts used in it.

But then again, it's hassle free and if you do not have necessary tools to program the PIC it's the best way. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 25, 2007, 11:02:40 PM
Now the cold shower
In the my preceding post:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg61260.html#msg61260

I affirmed that with 150 MA I drive 50 LEDs with 10V of tension, but what seems to be a device that produces more energy of how much it consumes, it is absolutely false. If to get a LED, with the same brightness of the other ones drive by the oscillator, using as source of energy 10V, it is necessary to insert a resistance, but a resistance consumes energy, energy that I cannot use for drive the LED. Here this is the error that so many do, with these types of experiments. Instead of putting a resistance, we put to his place the LEDs, in this way instead of burning energy we use the LED to illuminate. How many LED for 10 V are needed ? More other 4, in total they make 5 LEDs, under these conditions the resistance is not necessary and therefore we don't waste energy.
Finally thare is 5 bright LED, that consumes, verified to the tester, 4 mA alone, that for a power of 10 V, they absorb a total of 40 mW of energy. In my experiment 50 LED consumed 1500 mW (1,5 W) or 150 mW for 5 LEDs, and therefore the efficiency of the system is low, equal to: 150/40 = 26%!

From these simple example we deduced that:

The apparatus planned by Stiffer, can be defined OU producer only if it needs less energy of how much is necessary  for piloting a group of LED connected in series and directly drive by the power tension.

Unfortunately, my apparatus is very distant to be been able to produce OU, but that of Stiffler, if what says it is true, could he have more possibility, but has he made the comparative test with the LED directly fed by power tension ?

Stiller say:

The preceding 'Thomas' oscillator as shown will drive the common SEC coil
to an OU of +2 when using 36 White LEDS. The input current is a small
40mA. This is a great oscillator and simple to build for work with SEC.

The comparative test i easy to do,I would like Stiffler to do it, also to verify how much affirmed corresponds to the reality.

Best regards,
Adriano
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 26, 2007, 02:51:57 AM
@all
Today I spent the day trying to replicate fully the Thomas version. My picture shows the input being 120ma at 12v. The L2,L3 coil is attached to a magnet that when moving it in many positions will allow the control of the input current, brightness of the LEDs and if HV is present or not. Input current can vary from 60ma up to 150ma, brigthness from dim to very bright (eye hurting). No grounds anywhere or antennas. 52 LEDs mostly around 2.7v, 5mm (except for the last 3 LEDs are 3mm, sorry for the imperfection).

The meter on the left is the input (bottom most scale being 15 = 150ma) and on the right is the voltage across 1 ohm 5% with my almost ferrite beads (has some coil on it, better is a choke now). Voltage cross that resistor varies from 4mv up to on this picture (with carefull positioning of the magnet) 18.8mv (mili volts). So for those that like math, do the math and tell me if this is OU or not.

In this picture, LED are the brightest I could achieve and there is no HV. On my best tries when I have HV my output voltage cross the resistor is about 4 up to 10mv. Very difficult to stabilize this beast. Full specs if anyone wants just ask.

Buy now i have a few finger really burned. I was playing with input voltage around 20v and at that level is very dangers. Voltages on osciloscope goes up to 1000volts or more.

Second picture is osciloscope after the ferrite beads with probe on each ferrite (voltage over 1 ohm resistor).  Probe is 1x, 5v div and .1us tdiv.

Third picture is the same as first but showing some variation on input current and output milivolts over resistor after changing the magnets. Input 140ma, output 33.7mv.

Fourth picture is voltage (no ground) before any of the ferrites (only one probe).   Probe is 10x, 5v div and .1us tdiv. So it is about 350v. Dont touch it!!!

Fifith picture is to show the voltage after the ferrite beads (again) but no ground, notice the offset of the peaks, it has more above the center of the screen than below (off course I centered the zero voltage to be the center of the screen). That would explain a DC offset voltage measured by the multimeter.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 26, 2007, 04:05:49 AM
Great progress you all are doing ! ;)
Welll also the experiment with adding the water cell is interesting.

What Dr.Stiffler said, that the voltage at the AP must be high for overunity,
so if you don?thave 50 LED diodes to try it,
just use a 20 KOhm resistor ( 2 to 5 Watts type) and
see, if you can get across it at least 200 Volts DC.
Also put a cap of at least 1 to 10  uF and 350 Volts rating also in parallel.

If you will have around 200 Volts DC across the 20 KOhm resistor you will
have a heat power output at it of Voltage ^2 / R = 2 Watts.

If you can achieve this with an input of 12 Volts at 0.1amps you
will only need 1.2 Watts of input power.

If Fausto is already over 1000 Volts, I guess he could
probably get it..
Fausto please try at a 20 K Ohm resistor. Many thanks.
Happy experimenting.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 26, 2007, 04:26:22 AM
Dear Non-Funded Researchers,

I have consulted with a professional who has extensive expertise in evaluating over unity devices. He mentioned that in one failed test the inventor claimed a COP of 1.30 and was using a 1 ohm sense resistor (like so many of us are doing now) to measure energy output. When this resistor was increased to 1K the OU effects of the circuit under test dissapeared.

I am happy to report that in the Dr. Stiffler Technology, the current sense resistor in the middle of the LED string can safely be increased to 1K with no impairment to the circuit performance (that I can notice). This certainly makes tuning adjustments faster when you can see 3-4 digits of resolution.

In my setup (see post #907) I'm using 92 LED's as a load bank. In one very ruff measurement using an analog volt meter I was able to secure a reading of  165V across the entire LED string. The loop current was measured at 1.4 mA (using a 1 ohm sense resistor). This represents an effective load resistance of 117K (if this were classical electricity). Therefore the added 1K of current sense resistance is less than 1% of the apparent load.

Now, as you know, touching the LED array with any metal objects greatly reduces the effects we are observing. So the actual series voltage, with out the meter, is much higher than the measured 165V. This means that the actual effective series load resistance is higher than the calculated 117K and that the 1K sense resistor impacts the circuit even less than 1%.

I recommend using a precession (1% or better)  1000 Ohm resistor as your current sense transducer then divide your voltage measurements by 1000 to establish the actual loop current.

This suggestion only applies to the high voltage portion of the circuit  - in the LED load string. You will still have to use a 1 OHM resistor (or much lower) if you are using this method to establish a value for the input current from the low voltage power source (battery).

Submitted for your consideration,

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on November 26, 2007, 04:43:54 AM
Dear Non-Funded Researchers

Mr. Hartmann proposed the use of one of the 680 uH loop stick coils (less the Ferrite bar)  be inserted between the Thomas Driver and the AV plug.

Scorpio (see post #926) implemented this suggestion and added a series capacitor then increased the value of the feedback capacitor to match. Scorpio then provided a schematic of this variation and a nice photo as well.

I have made these same additions to my set up (see post #926) using a 680 uH litz coil and two (2) 470 pF silver mica capacitors installed as Scorpio has shown.

I am happy to report that this variation in my setup has increased the power output by 25% while increasing the power input by only 18%. My AV plug loop current is now 2.7 mA. (using a 1K current sense resistor) Other measurements to follow when I receive the proper equipment.

There are good historical reasons to pay particular attention to this modification.

My sincere thanks to Scorpio and Mr. Hartmann for disclosing this most useful variation.

Spokane1



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on November 26, 2007, 05:07:33 AM
@Spokane
              If you dont mind me asking your wording in this fourm is very careful and i was curious if you were a private research group or a goverment agency or contractor. The only reason i ask is after reading the following remarks it seems you refer to yourself in a plural "us". now dont get me wrong none of them are harmful comments i just intrigued me and well i was curious . I mean no offense asking this.

 "Thank you for your factual analysis and any replies that you might have time to share with us concerning this multitude of questions"

"Do you have enough experience in the marketing of these components such that if I were to discover that a particular salvaged loop stick had a record breaking performance  that you could tell me from looking at it where, when, and by who it was made? (I know this is a tall order but it might be a skill very much in demand in the near future)"

My sincere thanks to Scorpio and Mr. Hartmann for disclosing this most useful variation.

most posts say dear non funded researchers .. hmm then another says non classical

I was just wondering so I had to ask. Sorry





Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 26, 2007, 06:07:25 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 26, 2007, 08:50:04 AM
Instead of making a simple in series chain of all same polarity facing diodes (LEDS), try making a series "AV" plug from the LEDS themselves.

That is, bypass the signal diodes altogether, kill off the capacitor in the AV circuit if your using one, they are not needed, and instead connect one end of the secondary to a series of "AV LEDS" which is simply one LED facing one direction in parallel with another LED in the opposite direction. 2 LEDS in opposite direction make an "AV LED". Now simply hook up as many of these "AV LED" pairs in series as you can. I have 50 Leds making up 25 "AV LEDS" and the interesting thing to note is, each pair of LEDS adds to the total brightness of all the other LEDS as the plug chain grows with each added "AV LED" pair. At the end of the chain is a 20 cm piece of wire.

hoptoad,

pretty interesting idea, this way we take the energy directly off the single wire before it is converted, but just to confirm here's a schematic? :)

@ Amigo

Yep, the diagram you posted is exactly the lay-out I've used for my LEDS.

 I originally set it up as per the Stiffler "AV" hook up, with all 50 leds wired in a single series chain back to the "AV", but then I stripped down the elements oneby one, and eventually re-configured the O/P as shown by your diagram above. I am getting a lot more out of the same 50 LEDS set up as a chain of series "AV LEDS", than I did in the original layout.

I also have a "bar" magnet consisting of 4 neo's, which is layed lengthwise in parallel to the ferrite antenna. I would prefer to use "Heel or Front End" tuning, which is the shifting of the coils towards one end or other of the core, but my core is a self contained sealed unit which I cannot access directly.

I couldn't help noticing that when I connected the first 2 LEDS while the oscillator was turned on and running, the temperature of the transistor/s
increased dramatically and got quite hot. As I added the "AV LEDS", the temp decreased. Each added pair of Leds increased the brightness of the previous pair/s.

I have no usable voltage and current measuring instruments at the moment. The only meters I have are cheap Digital Multi-Meters, which go completely "wild" when I turn the circuit on. But I deduce that the current in the driver circuit is actually decreasing with each added pair of LEDS, leading me to believe that the brightness will continue to increase with further addition of pairs, until the load impedance equals that of the secondary impedance which is, theoretically, very high,  if it is indeed, a self tuning resonating circuit!

I just started a new 9-5 job today, so I'll have to wait until the week end to buy some more components and measuring equipment.
This circuit is very interesting. If nothing else it has revealed some unusual properties of LEDS themselves!

Also I am not using an aluminium plate, and have no ground connection, and I am using a 12V battery powered circuit.

The bright lights have got me hooked and dazed..........KneeDeep......KneeDeep :D :D

Cheers all from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 26, 2007, 09:10:37 AM
Now the cold shower
In the my preceding post:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3457.msg61260.html#msg61260

I affirmed that with 150 MA I drive 50 LEDs with 10V of tension, but what seems to be a device that produces more energy of how much it consumes, it is absolutely false. If to get a LED, with the same brightness of the other ones drive by the oscillator, using as source of energy 10V, it is necessary to insert a resistance, but a resistance consumes energy, energy that I cannot use for drive the LED. Here this is the error that so many do, with these types of experiments. Instead of putting a resistance, we put to his place the LEDs, in this way instead of burning energy we use the LED to illuminate. How many LED for 10 V are needed ? More other 4, in total they make 5 LEDs, under these conditions the resistance is not necessary and therefore we don't waste energy.
Finally thare is 5 bright LED, that consumes, verified to the tester, 4 mA alone, that for a power of 10 V, they absorb a total of 40 mW of energy. In my experiment 50 LED consumed 1500 mW (1,5 W) or 150 mW for 5 LEDs, and therefore the efficiency of the system is low, equal to: 150/40 =
26%!

From these simple example we deduced that:

The apparatus planned by Stiffer, can be defined OU producer only if it needs less energy of how much is necessary  for piloting a group of LED connected in series and directly drive by the power tension.

Unfortunately, my apparatus is very distant to be been able to produce OU, but that of Stiffler, if what says it is true, could he have more possibility, but has he made the comparative test with the LED directly fed by power tension ?

Stiller say:

The preceding 'Thomas' oscillator as shown will drive the common SEC coil
to an OU of +2 when using 36 White LEDS. The input current is a small
40mA. This is a great oscillator and simple to build for work with SEC.

The comparative test i easy to do,I would like Stiffler to do it, also to verify how much affirmed corresponds to the reality.

Best regards,
Adriano


@ Adriano

Good on you for providing the "Standard Candle" comparison driven by 10 V DC. It has been my contention with this experiment, that a "standard candle" needs to be established to measure outcomes against it.

What is needed with your  5 LEDs on 10 V DC at 4 ma is a light reading by a sensitive light meter at a specific distance from a single LED. Then all the parameters of the circuit can be compared with any one of the 5 LEDS which would be the "standard candle".

Even though the LEDS are very bright at 4 ma in your "standard candle", what interests me in these experiments, is if the LEDS can be same brightness levels or even brighter with RF excitation, in the same way that fluroescent tubes are more efficient when driven by RF than by direct HV.

When I get some more components and some decent measuring equiptment, I'm definitely going to put this circuit through the wringer, and see just what sort of efficiencies can be achieved. I'm still skeptical at this stage. But I'm an active skeptic...... KneeDeep... KneeDeep..

P.S. There's just so many strange things about the way this circuit works. Especially the really high intensity heat which occurs when you very lightly touch certain parts of the circuit. It's like a stinging nettle!  If you touch it firmly, there are no prickles, but touch it lightly, and WOW, the heat is incredible. No electric jolting, just pure heat that hurts very quickly!

Cheers all!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on November 26, 2007, 09:27:38 AM
@ Spokane1

Attempting to increase measurement resistor values to improve accuracy can actually backfire on you in several ways, because once the measurement resistor begins to approach the resistance value of the test load, it will reduce power going to the load... especially affecting non linear loads!  Another drawback can be thermal and inductive effects. Resistors are well known for changing in value depending on temeperature. More heat = lower accuracy. Substituting a larger, more thermally stable resistor may cause significant inductance losses at high frequencies, again, reducing accuracy or circuit performance.  Choosing the right resistor involves tradeoffs at BOTH ends!

A prime example of a thermally non linear load is a 100 watt light bulb. Its really just a resistor.  Go ahead and measure the resistance with an ohm meter.  Now use ohms law to solve for power (Power = E squared over R) when you know the voltage ( E=120) and resistance (you just measured).  Wow! your calculation shows a lot more than 100 watts dosn't it?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 26, 2007, 09:37:09 AM
@hoptoad

Also I am an active sceptic, but when I have built the circuit not noticed any strange phenomenon.
As you have built the circuit ?
The scheme of mine you have seen it, is yours different ?
The example of the 5 LEDs has served me to understand that I didn't produce OU, but rather the system was a little efficient... (< 30%)

Ciao
Adriano
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 26, 2007, 10:24:12 AM
@hoptoad

Also I am an active sceptic, but when I have built the circuit not noticed any strange phenomenon.
As you have built the circuit ?
The scheme of mine you have seen it, is yours different ?
The example of the 5 LEDs has served me to understand that I didn't produce OU, but rather the system was a little efficient... (< 30%)

Ciao
Adriano
@Adriano

I built mine on the week end out of parts I scrounged up from my shed. Whilst the circuit is based upon the "Thomas" oscillator, which is really just a blocking oscillator, the actual components vary. I blew up a few NPN's and ran out, so I substituted them with some PNP's
and reversed the polarity of the circuit. To prevent the transistors from burning out, I connected a 600 ohm (Audio) transfomer winding in series with the antenna primary. This reduced significantly the total brightness of the LEDS, but must also have contributed to a significant lowering of drive current, because the transistors only run very cool now.

Also I did away with the standard "AV" Plug and series connected loop of LEDS, and replaced the O/P with series "AV LEDS" which I described in an earlier post, and which Amigo responded to by posting a diagram of the LED arrangement I'm using.

Also, as I explained, I don't know what my Antennna coils are like, e.g, how many turns on primary and secondary, because it is a sealed unit. But it looks like my antenna is much smaller than the ones shown here so far.

To truly see what this type of LED circuit is capable of, I think it is necessary to build an on board stable "variable" frequency oscillator, so that the effects can be explored across a wide range of frequencies.

Cheers from the Toad who Hops.............KneeDeep  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on November 26, 2007, 01:56:11 PM
@Hoptoad:
   I would like to caution you on randomly touching places to see whats there. RF burns happen very easy and it can take days for the effects to manifest. It is not like a normal electric shock which makes the muscles jump. It has a burning sensation to it and can do things in a short amount of time. Five watts of RF can really mess you up. I do realize that there is micro-watts here but just be safe. Until correct RF mesurements can be made, dont tempt fate.

  Otherwise, hey aint this fun? Makin a Bertha, I hope.

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 26, 2007, 02:04:22 PM
This morning I remembered I had a few 'burned out' old fashion cool white tubes in the basement slated for disposal. I held one up with the outer metal ring touching the positive buss. I defused the LEDs with some bubble wrap (boy, they are sure bright). In the photo you will see the water cell and in the background the light from an oil lamp. What you do not see is the very neat undulating pattern in the light of cool white tube. You must see this pattern yourself.

Stay safe,

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MeggerMan on November 26, 2007, 02:07:34 PM
Circuit Efficiency

How many people have reported the efficiency of their circuit?
Answer, not that many.

The best I have achieved so far is 32%, I still need to do some more tests to see if a toroidal core can improve on that - it should.
Input is 9.2V x 6.2mA = 59mW
Output is 22.4V x 0.82mA = 18.3mW
So I need the output to exceed 3mA before I can say I have OU, it would then be a simple case to feed this into a highly efficient DC-DC circuit with isolation to self power itself.

With an ideal setup using fast, low on-resistance mosfets and low dropout schottky diodes I would expect to see the efficiency rise to say 85%.

I have a couple of components that are different to the Thomas Oscillator spec. posted by Dr Stiffler: TR1 is a BC184L and the coupling capacitor is a standard disc ceramic type, not silver mica.
Someone mentioned that using a silver mica cap made a lot of difference.
Everyone is quoting input power but only a few have measured the output. If you put a meter on the output, it does effect the LED brightness, but at the same time the power input changes too.
I got around this problem to some degree by unplugging the long meter leads and just plugging short wires directly into the meter terminals.
Also I use a 10uF capacitor on the output to enable the output current and voltage to be measured.
Again, this anti-ripple device could be my un-doing.
Like Hoptoad has just said, maybe I need to drive the transistor base with a function generator to test a wider range of frequencies.

@Retrod,
I will try this tonight, I have some brand new 4 or 5ft tubes I can use.
What voltage/current are you pulling on the supply?

Regards
Rob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 26, 2007, 03:08:30 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 26, 2007, 03:44:47 PM
Circuit Efficiency


@Retrod,
I will try this tonight, I have some brand new 4 or 5ft tubes I can use.
What voltage/current are you pulling on the supply?

Regards
Rob

Rob, the battery pack you see at the left in my previous post photo is my power supply. It is a 12v AA battery pack and the batteries are getting tired. Terminal voltage is down to 7.8 volts now, current at 120ma.

Just a thought on this, if these old lamp tubes (which are now a waste hazard) could be reused for cold electricity lighting purposes, and last nearly forever.....

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 26, 2007, 06:06:10 PM
    @all
    some experiment observations results:
    1 - when using the LEDs in series only, I could light them up with connecting one side of the LEDs to only one AV plug
        leaving the other AV plug disconnected. Switching the order of the plug or which side of the LEDs made no difference.
    2 - Brightness of LEDs and respective output current (over 1 ohm resistor) is increased when there is NO HV. Hummm?!!
            In other words, I could get the best output (higher) with no HV. With HV it dropped significantly from 30ma to 4 to 10ma.
    3 - Touching lightly any of the AV plugs or LEDs will burn you seriously if allowed for longer than 2 seconds and this
        was with only 12v. With 20v it became rather scary!!! ( I have a buble in my finger and it hurts).
    4 - Hydrolisis had its best performance when using a special wire. It looks silver or stainless but testing with stainless
        did not produce the same results. I have to find out what is this wire made of. Definetly some catalyst effect here.
    5 - When using the LEDs in disposition such as the one Amigo described (many AV plugs) or as I was using (many in series then
        invert them and many more in series and on each section put some in parallel), inserting a ground or antenna had interesting
        effects such as increasing the output current and brightness or depending where connected in the LEDs sections decrease
        brightness and output current.
    6 - Positioning a magnet over the coil will dramatically change the dynamics of the system. In some points it will allow
        a HV signal and sometimes will not. In some points the brigthness and output current changes abruptly as if some avalanche
        point has been reached (like flipping a light switch).
    7 - Removing the transistor and replacing it with a FunGen will produce similiar results on many different frequencies but
        no apparent HV ever (this was tested only with the Amigo/mine LEDs setup).
    8 - Attaching a diode bridge after the ferrite beads (after the 1 ohm resistor) I was able to filter it out further with a
        10uf cap and 470pf and get a voltage of 8v. Hmmm!!?? I even could barely light up a 12v 800ma mini-lamp.
    9 - When not using antenna, as described on item 5, touching the LEDs would have almost no effect on performance but when using
        antenna it drasticaly changed everything.
    10- It was very difficult to find the correct values for the cap from transitor base to ground and transistor base to
        AV plug. Once found, my circuit needs a little touch on LEDs to start it up. May be it is triggering the transistor
        with a touch and after that it goes on in its self-regulated mode. I assume once a good configuration is found this
        effect should disapear.
    11- Electricity from the AV plug goes very easily through the water and if you touch the water (even when using 20v input) it
        will not burn you. Hummm!!??
    12- In some positions of the magnet over the coil I was able to change the input voltage from 9v to 20v and no apparent difference
        in brightness or output current. Hummm???!!
   
    What would happend if we connect 2 Thomas osc and each going to one side of the LEDs series?
           
    Fausto
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on November 26, 2007, 07:17:46 PM
@EMdevices,
If open lead goes to base of transistor through capacitor, your circuit looks like Thomas circuit without base capacitor. Therefore I assume that tuning base voltage can improve circuit performance. What value potentiometer are you using?

edit: Or maybe it is base current that needs tweeking.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 26, 2007, 08:30:01 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 26, 2007, 09:47:38 PM
@EMdevices,
it is interesting that you have that of high value for the resistor limiting the base. In my setup I was even able to remove the resistor all together. That is weird.

More I play with this setup more I am impressed how this is working at all. I have been playing with SSG from Bedini, which is very similiar to this one, and in Bedini's design you can clearly see how the coil (similiar position as our coil) interact with the transistor to turn it on and off by the back EMF but on this setup it is even more complex than that.

The worse is just putting the ocilloscope probe anywhere changes the whole dynamics making the measurements very difficult.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 26, 2007, 10:10:27 PM
@Hoptoad:
   I would like to caution you on randomly touching places to see whats there. RF burns happen very easy and it can take days for the effects to manifest. It is not like a normal electric shock which makes the muscles jump. It has a burning sensation to it and can do things in a short amount of time. Five watts of RF can really mess you up. I do realize that there is micro-watts here but just be safe. Until correct RF mesurements can be made, dont tempt fate.

  Otherwise, hey aint this fun? Makin a Bertha, I hope.

thaelin

Greetings Thaelin - thanks for the safety tip!
Cheers all.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 26, 2007, 11:57:39 PM
Just a thought on this, if these old lamp tubes (which are now a waste hazard) could be reused for cold electricity lighting purposes, and last nearly forever.....
Dave

This tubes "die" because of weakened / broken heating wires at the end +
additional decay of the gas/sealing.

By using different means to start/operate the tube instead of normal
starter set up - you can operate them to the very end.

This is the typical party gag rf engineers use on the opening
party of a new rf transmitter. They put the tubes all around to
have light for beer drinking.

If you touch this tiny 20cm/12V tubes in the dark with your hands -
you can light them by the electrostatic field catched by your body.

have fun.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 27, 2007, 01:24:22 AM
@ fritz:

The rf doesn't hurt the beer does it?  That would be a shame.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 27, 2007, 03:07:04 AM
@ Amigo

Yep, the diagram you posted is exactly the lay-out I've used for my LEDS.

 I originally set it up as per the Stiffler "AV" hook up, with all 50 leds wired in a single series chain back to the "AV", but then I stripped down the elements oneby one, and eventually re-configured the O/P as shown by your diagram above. I am getting a lot more out of the same 50 LEDS set up as a chain of series "AV LEDS", than I did in the original layout.

I also have a "bar" magnet consisting of 4 neo's, which is layed lengthwise in parallel to the ferrite antenna. I would prefer to use "Heel or Front End" tuning, which is the shifting of the coils towards one end or other of the core, but my core is a self contained sealed unit which I cannot access directly.

I couldn't help noticing that when I connected the first 2 LEDS while the oscillator was turned on and running, the temperature of the transistor/s
increased dramatically and got quite hot. As I added the "AV LEDS", the temp decreased. Each added pair of Leds increased the brightness of the previous pair/s.

I have no usable voltage and current measuring instruments at the moment. The only meters I have are cheap Digital Multi-Meters, which go completely "wild" when I turn the circuit on. But I deduce that the current in the driver circuit is actually decreasing with each added pair of LEDS, leading me to believe that the brightness will continue to increase with further addition of pairs, until the load impedance equals that of the secondary impedance which is, theoretically, very high,  if it is indeed, a self tuning resonating circuit!

I just started a new 9-5 job today, so I'll have to wait until the week end to buy some more components and measuring equipment.
This circuit is very interesting. If nothing else it has revealed some unusual properties of LEDS themselves!

Also I am not using an aluminium plate, and have no ground connection, and I am using a 12V battery powered circuit.

The bright lights have got me hooked and dazed..........KneeDeep......KneeDeep :D :D

Cheers all from the Toad who Hops

@hoptoad

Great, so it seems that using the multi-AV chains does not deplete the source as fast as when connecting LEDs in series, and I would assume that is because we are staying within the open circuit topology with single wire transmission.

I now have two test setups, one on a board with metal bottom and one without so that the effects can be compared. I also got the cores today (20 of them to be exact) so I can actually come closer to using exactly the same setup as Dr.Stiffler does.

Otherwise I'm not big into measuring because I do not know what exactly we are trying to measure or hoping to achieve. I believe we need some kind of custom measuring equipment if we are to prove/disprove non-conventional effects that could be happening here.

Sadly past few days I have only been thinking about this circuit in the sense of a fancy Joule-thief because that's what it seems to be to me right now. Most of us are still struggling and have results across the board - we really need to standardize everything and be on the same page if we are to move to the next step (apparently there is one after this according to the doc).

Oh, and all the best with the new job. Remember it pays the bills to buy new toys ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 27, 2007, 03:08:59 AM
    5 - When using the LEDs in disposition such as the one Amigo described (many AV plugs) or as I was using (many in series then
        invert them and many more in series and on each section put some in parallel), inserting a ground or antenna had interesting
        effects such as increasing the output current and brightness or depending where connected in the LEDs sections decrease
        brightness and output current.

Just a small correction here.

hoptoad was the one who first described this specific setup (multi AV chain), I have just repeated it and drew a sample circuit for confirmation.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 27, 2007, 07:16:16 AM
Oh, and all the best with the new job. Remember it pays the bills to buy new toys ;)

@ Amigo
Thanks mate. I was doing "piece work" contracts, but it gets a little nerve wracking not knowing when your next job will come. The Job I just scored is a full time store person job. It's not the greatest pay, but conditions seem pretty good, the people seem really nice, and at least I know I can pay my bills!.

Cheers All! From the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 27, 2007, 08:53:41 AM
I just inform you that I am success with Tesla's greatest work 'wheelwork of nature' and 'cosmic ray energy'.
I don't know that this Dr. Stiffler circuit work (or is just good HF transformer), but now I know that this Tesla's system is 'in my hand'.
You can found my last thoughts on my page (in bottom part):

http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html (http://free-ri.htnet.hr/Branko/02.html)

It is real source of energy!
For now it is just embryo, and only first step, but I think it is step to right direction.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 27, 2007, 01:11:32 PM
@hoptoad
Great, so it seems that using the multi-AV chains does not deplete the source as fast as when connecting LEDs in series, and I would assume that is because we are staying within the open circuit topology with single wire transmission.

I now have two test setups, one on a board with metal bottom and one without so that the effects can be compared. I also got the cores today (20 of them to be exact) so I can actually come closer to using exactly the same setup as Dr.Stiffler does.
@ Amigo
It would be great if you could reproduce as close as possible, Stifflers original idea of a parasitically coupled Primary, as well as the Secondary. That is, both coils only connected at one end.

We tend to only think of the atmosphere in terms of how it impedes or depletes our signals. It allows capacitive leakage, but it is not strictly a "Capacitor", it allows inductive leakage, but it is not inherently "Inductive" and it has resistance which varies according to a range of explainable factors. Sounds like a battery to me. An "Accumulator" that is! We really need to appreciate fully, that we are living in a medium which is at one polarity of a giant DC Battery.

It may well be possible, as many accounts of Teslas works have hinted, that the correct frequency and type of radiated energy, will "tickle" the DC Battery, that is made up of the earth and the ionosphere, to react and interwine in such a way as to release usable energy from the atmospere in quantities excessive to the input signal.

This is not O/U. It is "tapping" an energy source which we know exists! Tesla talked about it, and was reputed to have achieved it. Like a sailboat tapping the wind, he apparantly was able to use a "small" discharge in the magnitude of a Megawatts, to create a reactive local lightning strike in the order of GigaWatts. How much is true and how much is myth is the stuff of history. But we'll only know, if we seek to know!

So far, I have not come across a circuit capable of even "hinting" at how this signal might be generated, especially on small usuable and SAFE scales!  Until now! These circuits are simple but still a little mystifying?  I am still skeptical, very skeptical, about any "tapping" of the energy around us going on, but I want to be proved wrong! LOL!  :D

We in the present, take RF for granted. High frequencies are used every day that Tesla could only dream about in his day. And he would have dreamed BIG dreams, no doubt, if he had access to todays semiconductors. So the spectrum of 1-2 megahertz, which was an achievement in his day with the technology available to him, is flippantly disregarded today as nothing more than part of standard RF band-width. But nature has her own secret bandwidths, and more importantly, harmonics within those bandwidths. Tesla knew this, we need to re-know this.

Amigo, you're already way ahead of me with components and hands on experimenting with this circuit. It would be great if you could stick with Stifflers original ideas, get it perfected, then use it as comparison device to do a number of practical configuration changes. Direct comparison of working circuits in real time is a very intuitive way to get to "know" your circuit, and can quickly reveal the reality or illusion behind assumptions about its mode of operation.

Good Luck Amigo - 20 Cores, Now That's Commitment to the Cause!  :D :D
Cheers
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on November 27, 2007, 08:46:22 PM
I have built a working circuit using a 2SC3943 TO220 transistor. I'm driving 20 yellow LED's at present very brightly using the Dr. Stiffler recomended ferrite coil. My circuit consumes 120mA. Like others, I have found that a small magnet is a useful tool for fine tuning the oscillator.

As has been correctly reported earlier LED's need very little current to appear bright at the RF frequencies we are using here. The circuit will probably prove to be quite inneficient at around 50% typically like the Bedini SG energisers. However, in terms of actual work done, the available output energy is probably remarkably efficient, again like the Bedini SG energiser is for charging batteries. I have been very open to the idea that energy is being 'captured' from the environnment but when this type of oscillatory LCR system is viewed as a whole, the conversion from low voltage sources to high voltage precludes very high overall system efficiencies from being achieved. If we could capture high voltage energy direct from the environment, and harness this to light our LED's and charge our batteries, then real progress could be made. Tesla created some very impressive displays using HV but how much do we know about the levels of power he used to convert low voltage to high voltage and therefore his system efficiencies.

Clive
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 28, 2007, 02:03:42 AM
In my last experiment I mentioned the intensified effects by connection of a water cell. Tonight I was experimenting trying to find a way to have the same effects without the water cell. I found that by grounding one side of the AV plug (center screw holding the outlet plate) I was able to achieve about 90% of the effect.
I made a short video so you can try and see the undulating light pattern from a standard 4 foot tube. It is much more pronounced in person. The only contact from the circuit to the tube is via the bottom of the 9v battery powering the circuit (just touching). This connection worked the best...very unusual. Have a look see.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnfSK7uvWd0

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 28, 2007, 02:28:08 AM
@hoptoad

Thanks for the encouraging words, though I see others making more apparent progress than me, which occasionally makes me frustrated. Sometimes I'm just impatient with things and if I do not get immediate results I drop it altogether. Ok, so far I did get some immediate results so I'll keep on top of this. :)

Speaking of impatient, where's the doc, he hasn't written in some time now...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 28, 2007, 04:07:10 AM
I was able too to light a white cold light.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 28, 2007, 04:08:03 AM
@ retrod:

Great video.  That is awesome!  Something is lighting that tube....but what?

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: weri812 on November 28, 2007, 04:31:28 AM
hi   Plengo

great picture

like your socks lol  ;D

but great job

wer
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 28, 2007, 05:46:03 AM
I was in the mood to play tonight and since I got those new cores I should be close to the target now. The cores measure about 710uh and I made 7-8 turns instead of 9 on the primary coming to about 4-5uh.

In any case the setup is in picture 1, battery is 10.2V so technically depleted 12V one, DMM is on mA and the circuit is my modified version that uses BD243 instead of the 2N3904/2N2222. I also have some other modifications but as a proof of concept it should suffice. The main drive board has 100x 5mm 55,000mcd LEDs and it's supported by an aluminium back, while the smaller boards have 14x 10mm 130,000mcd LEDs and no aluminium back.

My idea was to test the extent of AV plug and what can actually be done with it because I got tired of all these measurements and O/U guesswork. I'm a practical guy and I want to do something practical with this, so I figure let's see how many lights we can get going, how far and whether we can use a single wire to power it all.

As you can see from the included picture, yes we can drive with a single wire lots and lots of LEDs at miniscule amounts of source current. The picture 5a is sort of an anomaly I've noticed, if you look at the middle bottom board it is not connected to the AV plug drive but on the opposite side of the diode and as a consequence that board lights up brighter than the rest of them, at the minimum additional current draw. I believe this can be done to all even or all odd boards to get more light output from them.

This is by no means done, I have not used any coils in-between to try and boost the drive or such, it's just a possible beginning for something practical that can be explored. Also, interference caused by touching the connections and boards causes the lights to dim a bit, so that's another thing to consider when designing final circuits.

Important bit is that since the LEDs have different impedances (5mm vs 10mm ones) if those were matched I believe we could go on adding more without much loss or increase in current draw. Right now you see a jump from only 5mm to 5mm+10mm ones of almost 15mA. Funny thing is that I initially had this at 31mA but then I moved the setup and now it's at 48mA...figures.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 28, 2007, 06:15:52 AM
@Amigo,
congratulations. You are now the record breaking holder in the world in lighting LEDs with Dr. Stiffler Cold Electricity technology  ;D.

Can you post more details about your schematic, please? and the specs for all the parts? Keep up the good work!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 28, 2007, 07:58:20 AM
Yep, things are looking pretty cool Amigo!  ;)

Cheers from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on November 28, 2007, 08:02:01 AM
@amigo

From the photo that I see you have inserted 100 LEDs of type 5 mm (absorb from 1 to 20 mA) , with a battery from 12 V you have gotten around 11 mA of absorption ?
Have you made the verification of the absorption of a group of LED with the same bright issue, without resistance of fall, connected directly to the battery from 12V ?

(12 V+) - LED 1 - LED 2 - LED 3 - ... - LED n - (12V-)

The brightness of every single LED must be identical to that of the LEDs that you have used in the test.
I have set such LED, directly power by the battery, beside the LED that power from the device, so that to exactly verify such issue.
In fact, from your message, it seems that 100 LEDs are drive with 11 mA 12V and therefore every LED only 0,1 mA requires. Seem me an excellent result!
Can you confirm me this deduction ?

Best regards
Adriano
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 28, 2007, 08:21:42 AM

@all
Can anyone please comment the charged area around the coil. Dr stiffler, you called it an intense field but an intense field of what?

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 28, 2007, 08:27:42 AM
Akashh,

I know that with radioactive is easy to make electricity. Just use plate in air, capacitance and ground (this is Tesla's system for radiant receiver).
But I more like 'clean' ionization (high voltage and high frequency). My investigation go through that idea. I make ionization around plate in air, and free ions and electrons in air going through that path to ground. Transformer for that ionization need to be without ground, and that HF energy need to be recycle. It could make great virtual area. Highest the voltage or greatest space between two transformer plates, and highest height, will make greatest ionization 'cloud' in the air for collecting air current (stratosphere to ground).

On my pages (you ask about coil) i have my equations for coil. But it is standard air coil, and work in the ground will be little different. Important is to have inductance and parasitic capacitance information (for air coil I have good equation). Problem is with resistance, because it is function of frequency (for air coil I make some equations). If frequency is low (I think it is in that earth battery system), resistance can be just measure with standard instrument. Voltage 'amplification' or Q factor is Q=wL/R.

I think that important is to know Tesla's measurement of thunders part of spectrum (from his patent words its is around 30-70 km wave length).

And his bifilar winding coil, has good properties (because of high parasitic capacitance between winding).

My investigation is little different, but source of that energy is the same.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 28, 2007, 08:41:42 AM
@ Branko:

From my work on the earth batteries I read that some Russians determined the earth freq. (for electrical currents) to be between 1 to 5 Hz.  This is very low frequency but, I have also read that, to predict earthquakes, they listen for very low frequency.  I don't know if this is related or not but, I would bet it is.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on November 28, 2007, 09:35:42 AM
First I want to freely quote Alexander V. Frolov from his text on
http://keelynet.com/energy/frolov2.htm
(also quoted as reference material by Dr. Stiffler:
___free quote___
Note that term "zero" is not "absolute nothing" but "zero" can have an inner structure. Zero can be created as the sum of two opposite values, a negative one
and a positive one. Also zero can be created as the result of interaction of three or more values.
___end of quote___
This leads me to understand that zero represents a balanced state.
Frolov also writes, that if
1 + (-1) = 0
is true, then
0 = 1 + (-1)
must also be true.

.....
Can you guess why this circuits secondary works in "open" loop ....

My attempt to answer:

A blocking oscillator (see grey area in illustration) is also called a  rejector circuit (DE: Sperrkreis) and is a special RLC-circuit. It consists of an inductance and a cap in parallel. It takes it's name from the following effect:
At a certain frequency the overall current through such a circuit is minimal. In an ideal  blocking oscillator this overall current at a certain frequency is 0 A.
As the current is min. the power consumed (P = U*I) at that frequency is also minimal.

However, this min. current or "zero Amps" is "the sum of all currents" in the branches of that blocking oscillator circuit (at that certain frequency which is also called the circuit's resonance frequency).

For this total current to be min. or zero, the currents in the coil branch and in the capacitor branch of the circuit must be equal and anti-parallel.

Now let's use the (short) coil of this blocking oscillator (L1 in illustration) and wind it around a (long) coil (L2 in illustration). We have created a step-up transformer.

Now we can make use of this (long) secondary coil and employ it as the L in another RLC-circuit.
But we don't use it to build another blocking oscillator but instead we build a series resonance circuit (see light blue area in illustration).
In order to do this we have to place a cap in series with our long coil.
However, we don't buy a cap, but just leave both ends of the circuit open. These two ends are in fact a cap, as every cap is just that: Two conducting ends which are sperated by an insulator.

Note that the effect of a series resonance circuit is just the opposite of the effects produced by a blocking oscillator.
In a series resonance circuit, current is max. when the circuit hits its resonance frequency.

So the coil in our series resonance circuit is the secondary side of a step-up transformer.
Current at resonance in this 'circuit' will be max. so we can light lots of LEDs and hopefully also power other loads soon.

This is my understanding and an attempt to explain what we see with basic high school physics.

If my understanding is seriously flawed, I kindly ask you to point out the mistakes.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Branko on November 28, 2007, 10:31:42 AM
Sorry, I make mistake, and I post here (I click in another tab in my browser). My upper post was answer for 'Earth battery experiments'.

I will try comment upper picture...

This system is HF transformer and it has receiver on other part ( 2 diodes and capacitance). On my web pages I am explain that receiving (recycling) energy. This system could become extra energy DC current receiver. It need some plate in air, and high inductance path (DC will pass, AC will not) to another capacitance between that path to ground. Then, it will collect DC current from air (stratosphere to ground). That is my new theory based on Nikola Tesla investigation. Extra energy depend about area of plate, height and ionization (virtual) because of HF voltage.

P.S.
That automatic underlining is not 'my web pages'... Link is in bottom of every post.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on November 28, 2007, 11:00:28 AM
A blocking oscillator (see grey area in illustration) is also called a  rejector circuit (DE: Sperrkreis) and is a special RLC-circuit. It consists of an inductance and a cap in parallel. It takes it's name from the following effect:
At a certain frequency the overall current through such a circuit is minimal. In an ideal  blocking oscillator this overall current at a certain frequency is 0 A.
As the current is min. the power consumed (P = U*I) at that frequency is also minimal.
However, this min. current or "zero Amps" is "the sum of all currents" in the branches of that blocking oscillator circuit (at that certain frequency which is also called the circuit's resonance frequency).
For this total current to be min. or zero, the currents in the coil branch and in the capacitor branch of the circuit must be equal and anti-parallel.
Now let's use the (short) coil of this blocking oscillator (L1 in illustration) and wind it around a (long) coil (L2 in illustration). We have created a step-up transformer.
Now we can make use of this (long) secondary coil and employ it as the L in another RLC-circuit.
But we don't use it to build another blocking oscillator but instead we build a series resonance circuit (see light blue area in illustration).
In order to do this we have to place a cap in series with our long coil.
However, we don't buy a cap, but just leave both ends of the circuit open. These two ends are in fact a cap, as every cap is just that: Two conducting ends which are sperated by an insulator.
Note that the effect of a series resonance circuit is just the opposite of the effects produced by a blocking oscillator.
In a series resonance circuit, current is max. when the circuit hits its resonance frequency.
So the coil in our series resonance circuit is the secondary side of a step-up transformer.
Current at resonance in this 'circuit' will be max. so we can light lots of LEDs and hopefully also power other loads soon.
This is my understanding and an attempt to explain what we see with basic high school physics.
If my understanding is seriously flawed, I kindly ask you to point out the mistakes.
@Gustav22
Very well explained! Thanks for refreshing my hazy memory on several circuit functions   :)
KneeDeep....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 28, 2007, 12:59:56 PM
@Gustav
Thank you for your explanation. For a while I had been thinking how would link a series resonator to a parallel one.

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on November 28, 2007, 02:12:20 PM
I was in the mood to play tonight and since I got those new cores I should be close to the target now. The cores measure about 710uh and I made 7-8 turns instead of 9 on the primary coming to about 4-5uh.

In any case the setup is in picture 1, battery is 10.2V so technically depleted 12V one, DMM is on mA and the circuit is my modified version that uses BD243 instead of the 2N3904/2N2222. I also have some other modifications but as a proof of concept it should suffice. The main drive board has 100x 5mm 55,000mcd LEDs and it's supported by an aluminium back, while the smaller boards have 14x 10mm 130,000mcd LEDs and no aluminium back.

My idea was to test the extent of AV plug and what can actually be done with it because I got tired of all these measurements and O/U guesswork. I'm a practical guy and I want to do something practical with this, so I figure let's see how many lights we can get going, how far and whether we can use a single wire to power it all.

As you can see from the included picture, yes we can drive with a single wire lots and lots of LEDs at miniscule amounts of source current. The picture 5a is sort of an anomaly I've noticed, if you look at the middle bottom board it is not connected to the AV plug drive but on the opposite side of the diode and as a consequence that board lights up brighter than the rest of them, at the minimum additional current draw. I believe this can be done to all even or all odd boards to get more light output from them.

This is by no means done, I have not used any coils in-between to try and boost the drive or such, it's just a possible beginning for something practical that can be explored. Also, interference caused by touching the connections and boards causes the lights to dim a bit, so that's another thing to consider when designing final circuits.

Important bit is that since the LEDs have different impedances (5mm vs 10mm ones) if those were matched I believe we could go on adding more without much loss or increase in current draw. Right now you see a jump from only 5mm to 5mm+10mm ones of almost 15mA. Funny thing is that I initially had this at 31mA but then I moved the setup and now it's at 48mA...figures.
Excellent work Amigo. As you work with the circuits, new ideas just keep coming don't they!  If you have a scope, look at the waveforms in the circuit both with a X10 probe and a "sniffer" coil, you will then understand more what is going on here. There is the basic RF waveform @ the CE junction and then there is a much more revealing waveform near the hot (battery end) of the coil.  Look at it carefully and do everything you can to enhance that waveform! 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 28, 2007, 02:56:49 PM
@ retrod:

Great video.  That is awesome!  Something is lighting that tube....but what?

Bill

Thanks Bill. I know you can light these tubes with RF energy, I think some of the new fixtures convert to RF energy for modern lighting. When I get back to work I'll check to see if we still have an RF spectrum analyzer. I know we had one ten years or so ago. The best energy concentration (hot spot) to light the tubes in my circuit is at the battery pack. Today I used my 12volt pack (eight AA batteries) in a similar test. Terminal  voltage is 11 volts. Current is 110ma. AV plug is grounded to the house wiring (screw on wall outlet plate). The tubes are both touching the battery pack, no electrical connection. Check out the photo and then the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t45OyvaAc-0

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kurt Hoffmann on November 28, 2007, 11:56:09 PM
 ??? Why did Dr.Stiffler take his videos off of YouTube? I liked them. I wish he would post some more.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 29, 2007, 02:02:41 AM
@ fritz:

The rf doesn't hurt the beer does it?  That would be a shame.

Bill

The guy with the pretty red face who stands right next to the feedhorn
is used to drink his beer warmer than the others ;-))))
Maybe there is some vivid sensation in the foam visible -
yes definitly - the beer is safe.

And they are telling funny stories about the carbonized bird-feet
they?ve found yesterday on the outside of the feed - or tell the
story about the 2 policemen on the road, 2km apart of the radar
station - and how long it took them to get uncomfortable after they
changed the direction of the beam towards the policemen.

...funny guys...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 29, 2007, 02:11:32 AM
@All

BTW:

I would be careful on upscaling those experiments
to some degree.....
Finally some guys from the fcc will show up and take
everything including the solder iron.

If you operate an rf transmitter you should at least
know the frequency and fieldstrength you are emitting...
Even a radio amateur isnt allowed to transmit on any
frequency.

Maybe your neighbour already freaks out because he
gets evp messages from his radio.....

be careful !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 29, 2007, 02:37:47 AM
I'll reply backwards in the order...

@fritz

That's a good point but I do not have a field strength meter, can I build one quick and cheap? Based on my scope data I see that the operating frequency is between 1 and 2 MHz (this big range is because I keep playing with those caps in the oscillator hoping to reduce the source current by raising the frequency)

I had it going at 2MHz at one point and I believe I had it down to 11mA use on the whole setup (100x 5mm + 42x 10mm LEDs). But I cannot confirm that yet, I will have to re-run the whole thing. First I need to clear much more room on my table because working in a 2bdrm apt. is pretty tough. :)

@k4zep

I always look at the output of the coil's secondary for "interesting" waveforms. When the coil is not in tune I see something like negative resistance oscillations being followed by positive ones and so on (if I'm to believe the images on the bottom of this page http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/RadCom/part5/page1.html). I guess if negative resistance oscillations could continue indefinitely we would have OU, or am I all wrong on this? :)

I still have to make me a sense coil, but I just wish I had a spectrum analyzer, because of what fritz said, and also because I feel the need to search for the scalar (longitudinal) wave component of this circuit. If there is one, it would open the door to wireless transmission of (some) power but that's just my wild guess at the moment. I think in general it would be interesting to see where else does this signal appear, and how strong.

@abassign

As you know it's difficult to get exactly the same brightness in different situation without some (sophisticated) light meter and even then it might not be true in normal environments (I'd have to have a black box basically to accurately measure light, correct?).

I will try never the less to simply connect these 100 LEDs in series to the battery and see how much current they draw, that's easy to do. Otherwise I do not have another 100 LEDs I could put side by side with these and connect those directly to the battery because I would need an exactly the same battery, too, to be on the level playing field.

I believe you have to have in mind that when the meter shows 11mA we are looking at 1,000,000+ times a second pulsed DC signal and not a direct hookup so the meter might be wrong simply because it cannot sample that kind of signal. So from where I stand, these measurements of amps are just for the shows at the moment.

@plengo

I will do the schematic soon though it's not too different. I just changed couple of components during experimentation and I am sure the electronics wizards here will be able to optimize my hack to work better for my setup.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on November 29, 2007, 02:48:58 AM
@All

BTW:

I would be careful on upscaling those experiments
to some degree.....
Finally some guys from the fcc will show up and take
everything including the solder iron.

If you operate an rf transmitter you should at least
know the frequency and fieldstrength you are emitting...
Even a radio amateur isnt allowed to transmit on any
frequency.

Maybe your neighbour already freaks out because he
gets evp messages from his radio.....

be careful !

Have you built the circuit? I have a field strength meter and the meter drops to background at three feet from the circuit. There is nothing to fear here from the FCC or your neighbors. Be careful to shield your eyes from the high intensity of the LED's. The health effects of 'cold electricity' are as of yet unknown, you may wish to limit your exposure or maintain a five foot safety zone during operation of the circuit when you are testing it.
Yes, be careful till we learn more, not fearful,

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on November 29, 2007, 03:02:46 AM
simplistic idea - Very low power motor's speed adjusted to match circuits resonance varying the high potential difference provided by the (very tall) Aerial.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 29, 2007, 03:20:54 AM
Here are more photos of my hack.

I am using the "standard" core of about 710uH in secondary while primary has 8 turns of 22 AWG making it 4uH or so, can't exactly say. I have replaced the original transistor with BD243 (plain one, though I have a C version here I did not want to risk burning those yet ;) ). I have a diode going from the ground rail via a 180pF cap to the base. I did this remembering that Bedini used a diode across the ground to the base to protect the transistor from BEMF, but maybe this is just redundant in this case, not sure. Or maybe nobody in their right mind would connect a diode and a cap in series but me. :D
A 350K 1/4w resistor from power rail to the base; emitter on the ground and one end of the primary to the collector. The other end of the collector is on the power rail. Also, there's a 1.1uH generic choke feeding the secondary, which ends are in this case reversed (as seen in the photo).
Each side has 50x 5mm 55,000mcd LEDs in series connected via diodes to the common feed rail on either ends of the LEDs.

The small board has 14x 10mm 130,000mcd LEDs in series and diodes on both ends connected to the common feed rail. These small boards are connected in series so that one input goes on one side and output of the other side of the common rail, even though I am not sure if that is crucial, you could simply daisy chain from the same spot.

Lastly, the scope shot of the circuit running with only 100 LEDs connected. For some reason the values are different than last night, HV output is lower for that matter, possibly because I did not connect the other 42 large LEDs in, or for some other (unknown to me) reason. My scope's probe is x100, since I do not fancy some HV killing my (recently acquired) THS 720 :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on November 29, 2007, 06:34:49 AM
@retrod
Thank you. You're so right. Those LEDs do have some "heat" when I am in direct view of them. I dont know why but when I was recording for the youtube I notice that for the rest of the next day I have this "warm felling" right in my eyes like when you go skying in the mountan and forget the eye gear and the next day, oh boy, your face is so red....

@all
just a point that I learned this year. Do you know those craizy scientists that claims they know the secret but guess what they lost their "notes", including Tesla. Well, this year I decide to keep a almost "religious" process in document and noting everything I am doing (so many projects, so many notes) in plain paper notebook followed by good pictures and now the "my precious" youtube for the videos. I can not stress how important is to go back to those notes and "re-believe" what I discovered and have done.

As one example, I still have a few videos and notes describing in detail how to run this one experiment where my battery runs this "circuit" , make noises, run things and never, I say, NEVER run my 5hAmp battery down, which is the source of the circuit. Unbelieaveble. I had to return to those notes so many times and the videos to be sure that I really did what I am saying.

So guys, can you please make notes and possibly post here sometimes? (no criticism here, I am just serious about it, after all we ARE making history now).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 29, 2007, 07:39:42 AM
Fausto:

Excellent point.  I think the more everyone publishes here, no matter if failure or success, at least it is documented.  Then, regardless of hardrive failures, internet server destructions, or any other type of disaster, the information is already out there.  It is the information that is important and it must be preserved. And yes, I believe we are all making history now and I am just very glad to be here and participate.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanjaq on November 29, 2007, 07:52:46 AM
Maybe a good way to test overall performance would be to replace the Battery with charged Ultracapacitor?

Also, try suspending an induction coil around the assembly, measure through a diode on the multimeter for VDC.  Does the field size/shape change when there is a ground connection or antenna(or both?)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 29, 2007, 08:59:17 AM

@fritz

That's a good point but I do not have a field strength meter, can I build one quick and cheap? Based on my scope data I see that the operating frequency is between 1 and 2 MHz (this big range is because I keep playing with those caps in the oscillator hoping to reduce the source current by raising the frequency)

I had it going at 2MHz at one point and I believe I had it down to 11mA use on the whole setup (100x 5mm + 42x 10mm LEDs). But I cannot confirm that yet, I will have to re-run the whole thing. First I need to clear much more room on my table because working in a 2bdrm apt. is pretty tough. :)


I wrote "field strength meter" but in this case a spectrum analyzer+
broadband antenna would be good - to catch the overtones.

There can be lots of MW stations in the range from 0.5 to 1.5MHz -
depends on where you live.

The minimum effort I?ve done on playing around with such stuff is to make
a quickcheck with a radio and a TV set and check out if no radio station
is disturbed.

-> tuning around while turning the circuit on and off.

The other areas are 434 and 868 MHz where lots of rf toys work ...
but you need lots of luck to place your carrier overtone there by
accident.


The other option is to shield the garage or whatever you are working in.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 29, 2007, 10:04:32 AM
@All

BTW:

I would be careful on upscaling those experiments
to some degree.....
Finally some guys from the fcc will show up and take
everything including the solder iron.

If you operate an rf transmitter you should at least
know the frequency and fieldstrength you are emitting...
Even a radio amateur isnt allowed to transmit on any
frequency.

Maybe your neighbour already freaks out because he
gets evp messages from his radio.....

be careful !

Have you built the circuit? I have a field strength meter and the meter drops to background at three feet from the circuit. There is nothing to fear here from the FCC or your neighbors.


The field strength meter is just for your safety.
Typical receivers are sensitve to uVolts.
So there is quite a good chance that you disturb the reception
of your neigbors favorite radio program ... or the data channel
of your local firefighter walky talky or whatever.
There maybe overtones, multiples of your base frequency
which might be a problem.
Using ferrite beads all over the place would reduce the risk
to emit something >100MHz.

Yes, I built "something" with such ferrite coils -
and I?ve built various transmitters since I was a kid.
Yes, there are neigbors ;-) .

If you live on the countryside with no neigbors, no problem.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 29, 2007, 03:33:47 PM
Here are more photos of my hack.

I am using the "standard" core of about 710uH in secondary while primary has 8 turns of 22 AWG making it 4uH or so, can't exactly say. I have replaced the original transistor with BD243 (plain one, though I have a C version here I did not want to risk burning those yet ;) ). I have a diode going from the ground rail via a 180pF cap to the base. I did this remembering that Bedini used a diode across the ground to the base to protect the transistor from BEMF, but maybe this is just redundant in this case, not sure. Or maybe nobody in their right mind would connect a diode and a cap in series but me. :D
A 350K 1/4w resistor from power rail to the base; emitter on the ground and one end of the primary to the collector. The other end of the collector is on the power rail. Also, there's a 1.1uH generic choke feeding the secondary, which ends are in this case reversed (as seen in the photo).
Each side has 50x 5mm 55,000mcd LEDs in series connected via diodes to the common feed rail on either ends of the LEDs.

The small board has 14x 10mm 130,000mcd LEDs in series and diodes on both ends connected to the common feed rail. These small boards are connected in series so that one input goes on one side and output of the other side of the common rail, even though I am not sure if that is crucial, you could simply daisy chain from the same spot.

Lastly, the scope shot of the circuit running with only 100 LEDs connected. For some reason the values are different than last night, HV output is lower for that matter, possibly because I did not connect the other 42 large LEDs in, or for some other (unknown to me) reason. My scope's probe is x100, since I do not fancy some HV killing my (recently acquired) THS 720 :D
Although not explored, there are times I have during many straight hours of testing that I thought I saw 'Diurnal' effects exhibited from the circuits. In one case a self-running oscillator that would run for 30+ minutes at night, would not run during the day. This was NOT the result of any type of radio interference so we won't even go there. This is an area that needs looking into but must be done in a controlled way to insure you use the exact circuit under the exact conditions, including your ambient temperature and lighting conditions. In my case when using 1N4148's it was even necessary to paint over the clear glass so the they did not react to the light.

This would be interesting if someone did show such effects.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 29, 2007, 03:40:25 PM
@retrod
Thank you. You're so right. Those LEDs do have some "heat" when I am in direct view of them. I dont know why but when I was recording for the youtube I notice that for the rest of the next day I have this "warm felling" right in my eyes like when you go skying in the mountan and forget the eye gear and the next day, oh boy, your face is so red....

@all
just a point that I learned this year. Do you know those craizy scientists that claims they know the secret but guess what they lost their "notes", including Tesla. Well, this year I decide to keep a almost "religious" process in document and noting everything I am doing (so many projects, so many notes) in plain paper notebook followed by good pictures and now the "my precious" youtube for the videos. I can not stress how important is to go back to those notes and "re-believe" what I discovered and have done.

As one example, I still have a few videos and notes describing in detail how to run this one experiment where my battery runs this "circuit" , make noises, run things and never, I say, NEVER run my 5hAmp battery down, which is the source of the circuit. Unbelieaveble. I had to return to those notes so many times and the videos to be sure that I really did what I am saying.

So guys, can you please make notes and possibly post here sometimes? (no criticism here, I am just serious about it, after all we ARE making history now).

Fausto.
A noted fact is that under the right conditions I have determined that certain white LEDS in theses circuits will emit detectable UV levels. It is no joke that the LEDS should not be looked directly into even it they are not emitting UV. It is well noted that eye damage is possible from high intensity light such as the white LEDS.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 29, 2007, 05:10:34 PM
Dr Stiffler,

Please repost your you tube videos. My memory is fading and I would like to recheck for signs of OU.

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 29, 2007, 05:14:31 PM
Stiffler  et al,

I concur, staring at artificial bright light is bad for the eyes.

Very ouchy ....

Something else will make you go blind, though this forum is not dedicated to such topics...

Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on November 29, 2007, 06:17:42 PM
... I found this pertaining to a few of my experiments... but it may help you folks as well for another idea.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on November 29, 2007, 08:08:59 PM
@Localjoe,
They say a picture can tell a thousand stories but I can think of a thousand questions. Of course any information you can share about your diagram, positive or negative will help us all.


Regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on November 29, 2007, 11:19:00 PM
.. I randomly found it on the leedskalin page.. I didnt take it from someone ???  Anyway , It didn't show much info, there was a video on the site labeled induction test or something , it just looked visually similar to your project with the open ended transformer leads and all.  And the ground magnet made me think of a few things this could be used for, so i figured id just share, thats all. :)
                                                                                      Joe
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Peterae on November 29, 2007, 11:25:26 PM
Here;s a picture taken from Tesla's Papers regarding a single wire motor.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on November 30, 2007, 01:26:53 AM
Although not explored, there are times I have during many straight hours of testing that I thought I saw 'Diurnal' effects exhibited from the circuits. In one case a self-running oscillator that would run for 30+ minutes at night, would not run during the day. This was NOT the result of any type of radio interference so we won't even go there. This is an area that needs looking into but must be done in a controlled way to insure you use the exact circuit under the exact conditions, including your ambient temperature and lighting conditions. In my case when using 1N4148's it was even necessary to paint over the clear glass so the they did not react to the light.

This would be interesting if someone did show such effects.

Thank you doc, at least I'm not going crazy to think this then. Unfortunately I do not even come close to having necessary facility or conditions to conduct this kind of an experiment, but I strongly feel that there is something there.

Furthermore, thank you for the heads-up on the 1N4148, I will use a black marker to shade them in and see what happens. Will also try some other diodes that are in solid black packaging and hopefully note a difference between the two.

Have you ever considered that LEDs can also detect light and possibly produce some potential/current in the process (albeit minuscule amounts if any) but I have seen other unrelated projects where LEDs are used in conjunction with micro controllers as light emitters and detectors. These ones came to mind Multi-Touch Sensing through LED Matrix Displays (http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ledtouch/index.html) and LED as sensors (http://projects.dimension-x.net/technology-and-projects/ledsensors/).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kurt Hoffmann on November 30, 2007, 04:12:02 AM
Have a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJvFd3pYBnM (Stiffler removed it from YouTube)

Amazing !

I hope Dr. Stiffler will publish the exact circuit.

Regards, Stefan.

P.S:His website is at:
www.stifflerscientific.com


Check out http://67.76.235.52/drstiffler/ce4.asp and http://67.76.235.52/drstiffler/buildup.asp
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hansvonlieven on November 30, 2007, 09:05:18 AM
.. I randomly found it on the leedskalin page.. I didnt take it from someone ???  Anyway , It didn't show much info, there was a video on the site labeled induction test or something , it just looked visually similar to your project with the open ended transformer leads and all.  And the ground magnet made me think of a few things this could be used for, so i figured id just share, thats all. :)
                                                                                      Joe

G'day Joe,

The ground magnet you are referring to is actually Ed Leedskalnin's "perpetual motion holder" You will find out how to make one from his booklet on magnets or from Scottie's site http://www.leedskalnin.com

Hans von Lieven
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on November 30, 2007, 08:37:11 PM
Dr. Stiffler first reported OU weeks ago, and again as late as a few days ago. Why hasn't he made his circuit self-sustaining? And what happened to the other 6 people who achieved OU (according to Stiffler)? Still no report of anything self-sustaining.

This is turning into a joke.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 01, 2007, 12:34:30 AM
Dr. Stiffler first reported OU weeks ago, and again as late as a few days ago. Why hasn't he made his circuit self-sustaining? And what happened to the other 6 people who achieved OU (according to Stiffler)? Still no report of anything self-sustaining.

This is turning into a joke.
I do not control any of the other replicators nor speak for them. I would guess they will not or have not published their results because of people that make comments like you are so frequent in making.

Go have a good laugh, maybe it will free some of your cra ......
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on December 01, 2007, 02:44:55 AM
@ canam101

Patience, buddy... Even mainstream science mega-projects based on WELL KNOWN principals, like the 13 billion dollar ITER program ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITER ) wont be operational until the year 2016 ...and even this could take longer with delays!   
There is BIG difference between being able to MEASURE extra energy and being able to HARNESS it.  Harnessing Niagara Falls for electricity took the better part of 50 years, and was probably a bigger project for it's day than ITER is now.
Everyone knows that time flies when you are having fun. So have some fun, study, build, join and contribute. It's the only way the world moves forward.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on December 01, 2007, 01:11:54 PM

I do not control any of the other replicators nor speak for them. I would guess they will not or have not published their results because of people that make comments like you are so frequent in making.

Go have a good laugh, maybe it will free some of your cra ......

There is an alice-in-wonderland quality about this: somebody discovers the greatest thing since fire - tapping into some cosmic energy source that allows him to do more work, i.e., light more bulbs than can be accounted for by the energy coming in.

Instead of doing what I should think any rational man would do and connect the output to the input and make it self-sustaining, and then call in every newspaper and tv reporter he can to announce this monumental discovery to the world - instead of doing that, he gets on overunity.com and urges people to experiment with his circuit.

Then he claims that six of the experimenters have replicated his design successfully and are also lighting more bulbs than can be accounted for.  But none of them calls in the reporters either.

Anybody reading about this bizarre behavior can only conclude that the inventor is just kidding himself and that he has nothing unusual.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 01, 2007, 02:48:04 PM
There is an alice-in-wonderland quality about this: somebody discovers the greatest thing since fire - tapping into some cosmic energy source that allows him to do more work, i.e., light more bulbs than can be accounted for by the energy coming in.

Instead of doing what I should think any rational man would do and connect the output to the input and make it self-sustaining, and then call in every newspaper and tv reporter he can to announce this monumental discovery to the world - instead of doing that, he gets on overunity.com and urges people to experiment with his circuit.

Then he claims that six of the experimenters have replicated his design successfully and are also lighting more bulbs than can be accounted for.  But none of them calls in the reporters either.

Anybody reading about this bizarre behavior can only conclude that the inventor is just kidding himself and that he has nothing unusual.
@canam101
As a Skeptic, I actually don't think this is bizarre behaviour at all. From a scientific perspective, verification is first and foremost before any publication in the wider realm of the media is considered. And given the rapacious appetite that the media has for sensationalism over substance, I personally wouldn't be too quick to jump into the media spotlight, even if I "Knew" that I had the best thing since sliced bread!

Verification, Replication, Peer Analysis, Objective Deconstruction and Re-Analysis, etc, are all the hallmarks of conservative scientific research. Only after all facets of research are tried and proven beyond reasonable doubts would any conservative orthodox scientist venture to attract media attention.

Now, as a Skeptic, and having built one of these little RF Xmas Trees of LEDS, I am still skeptical about any net energy gain which is above input, but I have no problem whatsoever with the manner in which this discussion has unfolded.

To put in my 2 cents worth...........I say this.......never assume that others think "rational" is the same "rational" you think it is.
KneeDeep..........
Cheers All
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: emitremmah on December 01, 2007, 03:24:56 PM
As a watcher of this thread since day 1 I say keep up the good works. I have not gotten involved yet because I do not really understand electricity and circuits. I can read them and only guess what is actually happening. Because of the way this has been investigated it has kept my attention and I am actually gathering somethings to start my replications.
I am more interested in the non battery/signal generator version as being "free" energy, portable device. Free meaning I don't have to pay any utility for the use of the energy.
I can image many lighting situations where it would be wonderful not to have to change batteries or plug into the mains.

If  the only thing that happens out of this forum is that people like me try and expand our own knowledge and perhaps help then it has served a purpose. I am not about to go out and spend 100's of dollars on Signal generators, oscilloscopes and the like but I will spend up to $100 dollars and little bits and bobs and have a go.

To Dr. Stiffler and all the replicators, experimenters and hackers like me. Keep going, keep trying, keep expanding your understanding. Don't worry to much about the results fitting into common rules. They are only there to try and define what has already been observed. It doesn't mean that they are completely right or wrong. Just that they fit what has been known.

A quote from Ben Franklin, " Well done is better than well said".

Hammertime
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on December 01, 2007, 07:07:07 PM
I would think that feeding LED's with RF energy has power saving advantages for many applications like Xmas lights, cats eyes and other uses where power is not readily available and PV panels are the only practical source of energy. I have been surprised with my experiments at how little current is neded to brightly illuminate an LED.

OU probably not but useful, most certainly.

Clive
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 01, 2007, 07:21:11 PM
Some test results. Note that coil and transistor are nonstandard. Resistor is used in place of LEDs since I do not have hundreds of LEDs. Tests show circuit is a constant current source for load resistor. Efficiency seems to be highest at low battery voltage.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on December 01, 2007, 09:28:38 PM
To all who are confused at why he doesn't go out and scream overunity, it's completely understandable. Perhaps he thinks that if he got all the attention he possibly could, and finds out later that he made a mistake about his invention or that it really wasn't overunity, he would become a public moron. Many scientists make mistakes, and it very well is possible that he could have made one. Everyone would agree that being a public moron isn't the best thing in this world to be, especialy when trying to invent something. You get shut down, and no one wants to help you. This is probably the best he can do. Get some public help, but don't make yourself a dart board for public interest. A compromise that should help him get his invention perfected, and if he makes a mistake, the entire world won't explode on him. I have some mental problems (i'm not retarded), and i'm very shy. I would probably do the exact same thing as him. :)

Whether he is hoaxing or not; there is no way to tell. So no conclusion about his intentions should be assumed. This is a powerful invention, and should be attended to with greate appreciation. 8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 02, 2007, 07:13:12 AM
To all who are confused at why he doesn't go out and scream overunity, it's completely understandable. Perhaps he thinks that if he got all the attention he possibly could, and finds out later that he made a mistake about his invention or that it really wasn't overunity, he would become a public moron. Many scientists make mistakes, and it very well is possible that he could have made one. Everyone would agree that being a public moron isn't the best thing in this world to be, especialy when trying to invent something. You get shut down, and no one wants to help you. This is probably the best he can do. Get some public help, but don't make yourself a dart board for public interest. A compromise that should help him get his invention perfected, and if he makes a mistake, the entire world won't explode on him. I have some mental problems (i'm not retarded), and i'm very shy. I would probably do the exact same thing as him. :)

Whether he is hoaxing or not; there is no way to tell. So no conclusion about his intentions should be assumed. This is a powerful invention, and should be attended to with greate appreciation. 8)

So if he was stealing lollies from children ... would explain it like this... the poor guy is just hungry ?

Give me a break  :S
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on December 02, 2007, 10:33:49 AM
how does that connect??? Whats he stolen?

give ME a break...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 02, 2007, 06:11:17 PM
So far I have only been able to get about 8% efficiency with my home made coil. I have ordered real ones, I hope they will work better.  :(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on December 02, 2007, 11:20:59 PM
Strange test,

I have made a test with the Thomas Oscillator circuit , as LED I have used 21 350 mA White Light ED  built by CREE.
For the spool I have used a cylindrical ferrite of 12 cm with and 0,8 cm diameter. The wrapping is composed with more 600 coils of 0,05 mm wire and the resistance of the the wrapping is of 350 ohm.
The primary is a wrapping composed by 8 coils of 0,4 mm.
I have also inserted a circuit to measure the current absorbed by the LED, do by a 1 ohm resistance connected to an oscilloscope.
In this configuration, the whole circuit absorbs around 150 mA at 10 V, the frequency of scillator is around 1 MHz, with a middle absorption of the 21 LED of around 10 mA (The 21 LED are connected in series, with a drop tension at least 60 V). Under these conditions the absorption of the whole circuit is of 10*150 mA - > 1,5 W. The absorption of the alone LED array is of 60 * 10 mA - > 0,54 W.
Some time, succeed in modifying the frequency of the oscillator, setting the hand on the wrapping in certain points, can modify  completely the situation:
The absorption the whole circuit drop to 35-50 mA (35 * 10 -> 350 mW or 50 * 10 -> 500 mW)
The LED array absorption increases thin to arrive to 20 mA (60 * 20 -> 1,2 W!)
Under these conditions the circuit seems to have a 200-300% efficiency, and the brightness of the LEDs increases accordingly.
To this point I believe essential to be able to modify the frequency of the oscillator circuit, therefore I ask you if someone can explain me whether to do.
So that can send a best documentation.
However they seem true two things:
1. The circuit works better with a LED array that has a tension of drop highter possible.
2. The Frequency is Fundamental!

Best regards
Adriano





Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 02, 2007, 11:50:00 PM
I still think that the LEDs might have
special properties.....
Does this effect happen with LED array replaced by a resistor ?
Does it happen with old, less bright LED?s ?
Maybe as combination of the high frequency and rf(em) effects-
the efficiency of the LEDs goes up dramatically ???


rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 03, 2007, 12:05:02 AM
Is it possible that white LEDs driven with rf
emit additional light caused by an em field which
directly excites the phosphor stuff inside - additional
to the excitation by the silicon ?
This would mean that you experience a boost in
optical output, a rise in efficiency.
I would expect that the differential resistive part of the
LED goes up on high frequecies.......
In such case the brightness of the individual LEDs would
be different due to standing waves on the transmisssion/array
line.
Another point are the two 1N4148 diodes.
Operated in the MHz range - I would expect that the
diodes just limit the amount of charge which is
exchanged with the LED?s.
These diodes are even to slow to clamp a video signal
in a proper way...

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 03, 2007, 12:38:02 AM
@abassign,
Congratulations on getting at least 30% efficiency, you are doing much better than me. It is strange that when the input current drops as a result of touching the coil that the voltage across the LEDs stays the same. Are you sure this is correct?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 03, 2007, 12:49:04 AM
@abassign,
Please do provide more information. You are even getting better results than Dr. Stiffler.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on December 03, 2007, 01:17:53 AM
@xee

Thanks, but before making the compliments it needs to make many tests, it could be a fake.
The tension of the LED is constant in how much dependent from the characteristics of the LED. The white LED (as the LED in my experiment), normally have a drop tension of 3-3,5V. In reality it can vary, increasing in operation of the current. The circuit with one wire seems to relatively give a constant tension, current up with the frequency and the characteristics of the circuit. I think when the circuit must accord well, as well they know who work with the radio, when they must accord their antennas to the transmitters.
To accord the circuit they must use particular systems, or to modify the frequency (obviously this road is not usable from a serious radio operator), but for this work is a little problem.
To set the hand in proximity of the wrapping, modifies the characteristics of it and therefore the frequency.
The characteristic of the wave at the oscilloscope varies and becomes very more intense, the transistor heats less (there are evidently smaller standing waves) and therefore it decreases the absorption of the circuit, and to the LEDs it arrives more current.
I think that is the motive for this the dramatic improvement. My problem is as to vary this frequency so that to make permanent such improvements.
I cannot stay with the hand attached to the wrapping all the day  :) ...
Not only, but I think that who has succeeded in making this type of circuit has done used LED with elevated drop tension (the Blu or white LED have a hight tension of drop) and had the fortune to build a well according circuit.

Now my problem is to understand whether to realize such according circuit or vary the frequency of the oscillator.

Best regards
Adriano
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on December 03, 2007, 01:18:21 AM
Indeed the LEDs do have special properties, and it seems that many commentators on this circuit cannot seem to realize the full and deeper meaning of this; and cannot rid themselves of the notion that this circuit "should" operate as a standard resistive circuit for measurement purposes. By "deeper meaning" let us say "deep as a well" - a quantum well.

To be more precise, it is becoming obvious by now to many builders that the LEDs (at least partly) are a SOURCE of power, and not just a consumer of power. The watt of less from the battery powers the oscillator, and that 'starts' the process, but reflected power in the plug, and the refluxing of RF probably accounts for more actual power converted into light - than the battery itself, by the better circuits.

You simply cannot put a resistor into the series chain (the "plug") and expect meaningful results, as with a normal circuit, and the circuit with no LEDs must be some kind of perverted joke, as it is absolutely meaningless for what can be accomplished with a proper realization of where most of the power is coming from - not the battery but the LED itself.

Many of the ultra-brite LEDs, and I think those made by Cree and others can be included in this, are actually called "quantum well"  LEDs ! If you do not understand quantum tunneling, then the above remarks about the LED being the source of power (partly or entirely) and not merely a consumer of power from the battery, will mean little to you. This is basically a QM device and perhaps one of the first to depend on QM coherence.

One results in the mechanics is that the electron -- which tunnels through the quantum well -- as it comes out of the thin dielectric layer is near light speed -- and there is even a controversial claim of  *superluminosity*
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/16/scispeed116.xml

Superluminosity is NOT needed for understanding this putative gain, however. An electron travelling at 99.999% of c increases in mass substantially, and that gain in mass-energy would then become the proximate source of the power which the LED is "self-generating" via  the quantum tunneling. As to what is the ultimate source of power  (i.e. ZPE, or gravity,  etc) - that is far less clear, but let me make this practical suggestion to builders.

It might help to change you point of view and look at the LED as a source of contributory power, and forget trying to get accurate resistive measurements. The anomaly here is in visible light. If you want to prove the anomaly, rent of buy the best light meter you can afford and base all your circuit modifications on light output alone. BTW you must get over 100 volts-equivalent for tunneling, with most LEDs... google for VCNR  LED -voltage controlled negative resistance to understand why.

Let me make another practical suggestion, to the morons here who are putting Dr. Stiffler down.

Get a life! and move-on over to Randi's forum where you can entertain each other with your own silliness.

I'm sure that you have better things to do with your time than actually impeding this first real sign of progress towards the goal of measurable power coming from quantum mechanics, and hopefully ZPE. Even if the circuit turns out not to be thermodynamic OU,  it will still be extremely important as a source of ultra-efficient lighting - and that accounts for up to a quarter of all grid power.

Jones


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on December 03, 2007, 01:32:15 AM
@jonesbeene

Certainly what you say could be correct, but there is no a lot of tests on the theory from you quoted. The LED that I have used, are certainly interesting, and in other this thread experiments more use only Blue or White LED, this fact would be able not to be casual. To the beginning I have tried with red LED array (50 LED with drop tension of 1,6 V), but with nothing  results.
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 03, 2007, 03:08:02 AM
abassign,
Adding capacitor between base and emitter of transistor in parallel with Ceb of transistor should lower frequency. Adding a capacitor in series with resonator coil somewhere else should increase frequency.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 03, 2007, 03:40:42 AM
@jonesbeene,
How does voltage ever get to 100 volts across LED? Most LEDs only have 1 to 4 volt forward drop. Even when there are many LEDs in series, the drop across each LED is still only about 3 volts.

Testing with resistors may be a waste of time, but it seems like a good place to start. Knowing what happens with resistors provides a baseline that allows me to see how LEDs are performing differently.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on December 03, 2007, 04:06:28 AM

xee: How does voltage ever get to 100 volts across LED? Most LEDs only have 1 to 4 volt forward drop. Even when there are many LEDs in series, the drop across each LED is still only about 3 volts.

Correct - 3+ volts per LED. The effective-voltage can only be guessed, as the power is RF but if the open wire on the secondary will fire up a neon (NE-2) then this is a good indication. If it will not, then your circuit is not optimized. The breakdown voltage for a neon is ~100 volts and presumably that is why DrS emphasizes this particular test, on his web site. It is no accident that the better circuits (more light produced per watt of input) are using 30+ LEDs.

You did study his web site, correct? If you did not then this is highly recommended as your comments tend to give the wrong impression.

xee: Testing with resistors may be a waste of time, but it seems like a good place to start. Knowing what happens with resistors provides a baseline that allows you to see how LEDS are performing differently.

OK. fine, if is good to see the "how and why" of it -- but one cannot jump from there to saying or implying, as you seemed to do- that the circuit populated with LEDs is only 30% efficient, for instance. That or any conclusion, when it is based on a resistive load is what is "meaningless" and for several other reasons: most notably the output - BY DESIGN -  is in photons of light. How can anyone say that a circuit is only 30% efficient when they fail to account for the light output?

No disrespect intended, but it is almost like you are totally disregarding several weeks of past work by DrS and others, leading up to where we are today instead, of moving forward based on what has already been done.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 03, 2007, 04:16:06 AM
@johnesbeene,
I think you misunderstood me. I certainly meant to say that getting even 30% ,as abassign did at first, was way better than what I was getting. I did not mean to imply that was all he was getting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 07:24:46 AM
@ jonesbeene

How did you come to the conclusion that quantum tunnelling may be involved in a simple pulsed dc circuit ?
Or is that just wishful thinking for an idea you have rattleling around in your noggin that you would like to super impose on
the nothingness that is the stiffler effect.

Geeze Loise

Edited ...
Or maybe you are going to propose that we weight the almost infinite mass the electron will attain at such speed with some Kwikymart scales ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 03, 2007, 07:35:57 AM
@ jonesbeene

How did you come to the conclusion that quantum tunnelling may be involved in a simple pulsed dc circuit ?
Or is that just wishful thinking for an idea you have rattleling around in your noggin that you would like to super impose on
the nothingness that is the stiffler effect.

Geeze Loise

Edited ...
Or maybe you are going to propose that we weight the almost infinite mass the electron will attain at such speed with some Kwikymart scales ?
@Dean,
Please contribute some facts or figures relating to research in this area, instead of just cynical remarks, which contribute nothing!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 07:44:58 AM
And another point ...

Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount  over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.

A simple test  ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on December 03, 2007, 07:47:45 AM
@ jonesbeene

How did you come to the conclusion that quantum tunnelling may be involved in a simple pulsed dc circuit ?
Or is that just wishful thinking for an idea you have rattleling around in your noggin that you would like to super impose on
the nothingness that is the stiffler effect.

Geeze Loise

Edited ...
Or maybe you are going to propose that we weight the almost infinite mass the electron will attain at such speed with some Kwikymart scales ?
@Dean,
Please contribute some facts or figures relating to research in this area, instead of just cynical remarks, which contribute nothing!

I've scanned through some of his posts, and well, the only way to describe them is erratic
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on December 03, 2007, 07:51:12 AM
And another point ...

Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount  over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.

A simple test  ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.

I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 07:59:46 AM
And another point ...

Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount  over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.

A simple test  ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.

I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...

JonesBeene does exactly what you have done .. make "the test" a bridge too far and then goes on to exclaim how this is going to be a revolution. I suggest a valid  test that would give you a ball park figure which in my opinion would be enough to indicate if you were close to over unity or not .. and you just shoot it down so you can go on "believing" what you so obviously need to believe

... me Erratic? LOL .. is that the best you can do .. some half arsed personal assault. Go ahead .. quote everything I have said .. summarise  me as an individual ... whatever .. at least my real name is there with my real words. No Hope ...


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on December 03, 2007, 08:16:03 AM
And another point ...

Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount  over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.

A simple test  ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.

I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...

JonesBeene does exactly what you have done .. make "the test" a bridge too far and then goes on to exclaim how this is going to be a revolution. I suggest a valid  test that would give you a ball park figure which in my opinion would be enough to indicate if you were close to over unity or not .. and you just shoot it down so you can go on "believing" what you so obviously need to believe

... me Erratic? LOL .. is that the best you can do .. some half arsed personal assault. Go ahead .. quote everything I have said .. summarise  me as an individual ... whatever .. at least my real name is there with my real words. No Hope ...




Calm the F*** down... You take everything as a personal insult, you some how connect stealing and unconclusive experiments to be the same thing, and you attack people with sarcasm... Do you understand now why some people would believe you to be erratic??? Do you want some one to really personaly attack you? Arguing is fun at night, especialy when your bored, so I would suggest NOT continuing for the sake of sanity.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 03, 2007, 08:18:55 AM
@ Hope:

Well said.


Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 08:27:05 AM
And another point ...

Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount  over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.

A simple test  ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.

I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...

JonesBeene does exactly what you have done .. make "the test" a bridge too far and then goes on to exclaim how this is going to be a revolution. I suggest a valid  test that would give you a ball park figure which in my opinion would be enough to indicate if you were close to over unity or not .. and you just shoot it down so you can go on "believing" what you so obviously need to believe

... me Erratic? LOL .. is that the best you can do .. some half arsed personal assault. Go ahead .. quote everything I have said .. summarise  me as an individual ... whatever .. at least my real name is there with my real words. No Hope ...




Calm the F*** down... You take everything as a personal insult, you some how connect stealing and unconclusive experiments to be the same thing, and you attack people with sarcasm... Do you understand now why some people would believe you to be erratic??? Do you want some one to really personaly attack you? Arguing is fun at night, especialy when your bored, so I would suggest NOT continuing for the sake of sanity.

Calm down yourself .. and explain to me why simple calorimetry would not suffice as a reasonable test ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 08:32:58 AM
edited to disengage ...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on December 03, 2007, 08:39:45 AM
And another point ...

Has anyone quantitatively measured the promoted OU in light generated that is the basis for all of this hocus pocus speculation, or is better to just keep sticking your heads in the sand and "BELIEVING" you are on to something. It may be a better more efficient light bulb, and if so congratulations but no one seems to be doing any serious measurements. You defend this by saying its not measurable by conventional means, yet using the lights to heat a litre of water a specific amount  over a specific time should give a good indication of the amount of energy in the system.

A simple test  ? does anyone else have any other ideas of how to quantify the solution.

I don't believe that a LED heating water would be a greate way to measure energy; it isn't accurate enough...

JonesBeene does exactly what you have done .. make "the test" a bridge too far and then goes on to exclaim how this is going to be a revolution. I suggest a valid  test that would give you a ball park figure which in my opinion would be enough to indicate if you were close to over unity or not .. and you just shoot it down so you can go on "believing" what you so obviously need to believe

... me Erratic? LOL .. is that the best you can do .. some half arsed personal assault. Go ahead .. quote everything I have said .. summarise  me as an individual ... whatever .. at least my real name is there with my real words. No Hope ...




Calm the F*** down... You take everything as a personal insult, you some how connect stealing and unconclusive experiments to be the same thing, and you attack people with sarcasm... Do you understand now why some people would believe you to be erratic??? Do you want some one to really personaly attack you? Arguing is fun at night, especialy when your bored, so I would suggest NOT continuing for the sake of sanity.

Calm down yourself .. and explain to me why simple calorimetry would not suffice as a reasonable test ?

because it's only heat loss energy, not all the actual energy...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 08:44:09 AM
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on December 03, 2007, 08:44:58 AM
edited to disengage ...


lmao, posted to late. JK, i don't really care about arguing anymore... Feelings were short lived i guess...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on December 03, 2007, 08:56:21 AM
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?

I just don't think it would be accurate enough. Light is more than just heat, and in low energy circuits like this, the diffusion of the heat within the box would render the results inconclusive. Like even if you waear black inside your house you still wont have a measurable temperature decrease within the air of the house. Simple as that. I wasn't trying to put down the idea, it's just like how in forensics a test is never a 100% accurate, thus further testing is required. I'm sure he is planning to do a multi test experiment; it's just going to take some time. There might be a way to build on your idea though. Possibly another level before the black box. If i'm entirely wrong about this though, please post a logical response to why your test would in fact be 100% accurate.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 09:02:53 AM
The only problem i saw was leakage back through the wires though if the coupling was done across the boundary of the container (if that's possible) then it could be completely sealed ? Then it would be a matter of how the heat affected the performance of the components, which could be tested and accounted for in some other way?

Just how accurate could a test like this be under ideal conditions ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 03, 2007, 09:03:19 AM
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?
@Dean
It would be generous of you, if you could construct to the best of your ability, any one of the circuits posted here, perfect it to whatever degree of efficiency you can, and prove the circuit's and LED's actual efficiencies by using the method you have suggested or any other you care to choose, then post your results here where we can all freely analyze the figures and methods used to furbish them.

As a Skeptic, I do not "believe" in O/U, but, as with alI O/U and Non-O/U claims, I will approach whatever data and results you have to offer with an "open" mind. I'm here to learn and share new and old ideas in a new context, not pre-judge them.

I await in anticipation of any facts and figures from hands on experimentation, that you may have to offer.

From the Toad who Hops!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 09:48:17 AM
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?
@Dean
It would be generous of you, if you could construct to the best of your ability, any one of the circuits posted here, perfect it to whatever degree of efficiency you can, and prove the circuit's and LED's actual efficiencies by using the method you have suggested or any other you care to choose, then post your results here where we can all freely analyze the figures and methods used to furbish them.

As a Skeptic, I do not "believe" in O/U, but, as with alI O/U and Non-O/U claims, I will approach whatever data and results you have to offer with an "open" mind. I'm here to learn and share new and old ideas in a new context, not pre-judge them.

I await in anticipation of any facts and figures from hands on experimentation, that you may have to offer.

From the Toad who Hops!

I was holding out for the plans to the non powered , no frequency generator version.  Just try and stop me making one of those suckers :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 03, 2007, 10:26:01 AM
Maybe LEDs do create their own power. Then again, maybe Ohm's Law does not apply to LEDs with constant current sources. These are real measurements. I offer no explanations.

EDIT: diagram updated 3 DEC.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 03, 2007, 01:01:21 PM
ok ... so if all the lights are in a black container and that container is immersed in water and all the energy is converted to heat energy (i assume most is) then what other energy is there that i am not measuring ?
@Dean
It would be generous of you, if you could construct to the best of your ability, any one of the circuits posted here, perfect it to whatever degree of efficiency you can, and prove the circuit's and LED's actual efficiencies by using the method you have suggested or any other you care to choose, then post your results here where we can all freely analyze the figures and methods used to furbish them.

As a Skeptic, I do not "believe" in O/U, but, as with alI O/U and Non-O/U claims, I will approach whatever data and results you have to offer with an "open" mind. I'm here to learn and share new and old ideas in a new context, not pre-judge them.

I await in anticipation of any facts and figures from hands on experimentation, that you may have to offer.

From the Toad who Hops!

Hey Hoppy,

It was implied that there is some other mysterious energy that would not dissipate as heat from the proposed experiment. I am not averse to giving it a try, though there is hardly any compelling reason so far to suggest that there would be more energy out than in.. or is there ?

Do you think you could convince a fellow sceptic with the evidence at hand to invest in doing the experiment, given that you have only used what was available to you in your replication effort and not that which was specified?

If you would like, and I am assuming you would, shall we invest in the proper parts and do this replication and calometric testing .. just to put this baby to rest once and for all ?

50/50 ?

Cheers,

The one walks his talk

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on December 03, 2007, 02:48:59 PM

I was holding out for the plans to the non powered , no frequency generator version.  Just try and stop me making one of those suckers :P


Dean, Please then stop posting until then.

You do not add any useful information here.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on December 03, 2007, 02:52:47 PM
Maybe LEDs do create their own power. Then again, maybe Ohm's Law does not apply to LEDs with constant current sources. These are real measurements. I offer no explanations.



Hi Xee,
how did you measure the 2 mV across the LED and resistor ?
Maybe your voltmeter was jammed by the RF power ?

What does it show without the 100 Ohm resistor ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 03, 2007, 04:02:21 PM
If you are suffering 'HIGH' LED failure in SEC circuits driving LED's, the problem has been solved or greatly reduced. It does although require additional passive components but the cost is less than a handful of good LED's.

The circuit was added to the bottom of the SEC page; www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

One thing to note that is not discussed in the circuit overview is that the 22uH coils must be separate from the balanced inductor, just selecting an inductor of higher value will not work. The input chokes to the inductor are required and attempts to circumvent this will result in the matching and loading not being met and proper isolation from the load and safety diode and the driver are not achieved.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 03, 2007, 04:30:03 PM
@hartiberlin,
Reads 0.94 volts across diode without 100 ohm resistor and LED lights brightly. RF could be problem but test is at output of full wave rectifier and seems to be DC. I do not have scope so I can not check using that. If diode leads are reversed, LED does not light and voltage across diode reads 41 millivolts without resistor. Using a 0.1 uF capacitor in series with forward diode prevents diode from lighting and voltage reads 0.77 volts across diode (without 100 ohm resistor). So there seems to be some kind of voltage being generated by RF. Maybe from parasitic coupling. LED is 15,000 mcd super bright. Meter is digital Radio Shack. Very strange. I will try some more tests today but do not have a lot of time. Just wanted to see if anyone else had seen something similar.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on December 03, 2007, 04:44:04 PM
Thanks for banning the toxic negativity of certain skeptics, Harti.

I fear that the incessant mindless chirping of nay-sayers, who add nothing relevant into the mix - like that one, has once again caused DrS to abandon further contribution to the group for a while.

Funny that the skeptic chose to ignore the last contribution by xee, which is provocative and indicative of the strange kind of LED input, which eventually derives from series negative resistance, but the simple test is not conclusive of anything admittedly  --- except of what we have been observing in operating circuits. Normally negative resistance is a decrease in current with rising voltage, but the reciprocal of that (near reciprocal) is closer to what seems to be happening. IOW in a series loop (the AV plug), and with an open-ended secondary to supply the capacitive coupling (which a few experimenters have dropped unfortunately) there seems to be a strange kind of stasis which develops in the loop, to push the light output - such that the expected voltage drop of series LEDs seems to disappear, at least for part of the cycle.

The more series LEDs which are added, up to a point, the more actual work which is produced from the DC input which actually drops instead of rises. The drop in P-in is a result of added resistance, true, but the added light output is the big surprise. Lest we not forget -- the "work" being done here is solely in *light output* and if you have followed Stiffler's testing you have noted that the expected heating does NOT occur, commensurate with the light output. This is not standard electrical engineering, nor is it standard physics.

Please keep this in mind - this is a LIGHTING device first and foremost. It may have, on occasion, showed some indication of being amenable to self-power - but it is not optimized for that, and I fear that a few experimenters are looking for that alone and neglecting the fact that the energy output here is in photonic; and that lighting is the MOST factor to optimize. Do not attempt to build this with the anticipation that it will magically self-power. Personally, I think the only way to achieve self power will be to focus the light output onto a very efficient photocell (triple junction solar cell) and use that DC from the photocell to power the oscillator.

The downside, and the fly-in-the-ointment, is that these LED devices are NOT engineered for higher voltage, and the failure rate limits the number which can be added in the plug. My guess is that between 30-50 is optimum for sustained operation at moderate failure rate. Plus the best "quantum well" diodes, like those from Cree and Nichia - are far more expensive than the eBay garden variety rainbow.

Although the run-of-the-mill red and green diodes will show the series negative resistance effect, it is to a lesser extent. If you can afford it- go with quantum-well diodes direct from either Nichia or Cree. Those two companies own ALL the important patents on quantum well LEDs, and any other suppliers will be just adding on a surcharge.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on December 04, 2007, 09:27:07 PM
Dr. Stiffler has added some interesting new
output load circuits.

Have a look at his website, cause he has a strict copyright
notice, so I don?t copy it over to here:

http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp

Regards, Stefan.
P.S. In this moment I don?t have much time to experiment
unfortunately, so before christmas all is hektik again...
too much other work needs to be finished..
I hope some other people find the time to experiment on with this..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 05, 2007, 02:56:40 PM
xee,  you realy need a scope meter to see what's happening.    Before I experimented, I thought the diode bridge and cap were pretty good at turning the AC waveform to DC, but I was wrong.   It's all about RF here, and I doubt DR Stifflers measurements now, and mine too. 

So, I'm not so sure this approach produces OU.  We're dealing with inappropriate measurements for the Output power.   We realy should get a supper smooth DC voltage at the output, by a chain of caps and inductors (low pass filter config) so that we can be sure what we are measuring DC and not DC with RF on it.

EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 05, 2007, 03:11:57 PM
 ;) ;D ;) ;D
... Have bought some LED samples today ...
will soon come up with nice measuring results ....
LED operated with DC/AC/RF and combination +
differential resistance...
I also "found" an optical power meter in my workshop -
it works up to 999mW - in a calibrated way up to 50mW -
anyway - for comparison/efficiency its usable.
The problem with white LED is that this power meter is
calibrated to wavelength - means I need to measure
at 3 wavelengths for "white"....LED...

rgds,


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 05, 2007, 05:26:40 PM
;) ;D ;) ;D
... Have bought some LED samples today ...
will soon come up with nice measuring results ....
LED operated with DC/AC/RF and combination +
differential resistance...
I also "found" an optical power meter in my workshop -
it works up to 999mW - in a calibrated way up to 50mW -
anyway - for comparison/efficiency its usable.
The problem with white LED is that this power meter is
calibrated to wavelength - means I need to measure
at 3 wavelengths for "white"....LED...

rgds,




@fritz

I am no optics expert by a long shot, so just my two cents worth. Old style LEDS mixed Red, Blue and Green to come up with a White beam, while the newer units now coat the emitter with a phosphor much like an FL tube to enable the emission of the CLOSE to white light.

Most consumer light meters are weighted for the response of the human eye and do indeed have weighting filters added making it difficult to measure LED output with the  same accuracy as the standard sources such as Tungsten, Mercury, Fluorescent and Sodium. You also need to now what type of power measurement you are making, lm/m2, lm/ft2 for example.

Without knowing your input device, I would doubt you can measure an entire LED array do to the beam angles not being convergent. I take a representative number of selected LEDS, measure the output from each and take an average, then monitor only one selected LED and extrapolate over the total number. This method allows for ease is seeing the effects of adding and subtracting LEDS from the change and the approach of optimum matching to the driver.

Looking forward to your results; What circuit and coil arrangement will you be using for the testing??? Just wanting to match Apples to Apples......
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 05, 2007, 05:37:32 PM
xee,  you realy need a scope meter to see what's happening.    Before I experimented, I thought the diode bridge and cap were pretty good at turning the AC waveform to DC, but I was wrong.   It's all about RF here, and I doubt DR Stifflers measurements now, and mine too. 

So, I'm not so sure this approach produces OU.  We're dealing with inappropriate measurements for the Output power.   We realy should get a supper smooth DC voltage at the output, by a chain of caps and inductors (low pass filter config) so that we can be sure what we are measuring DC and not DC with RF on it.

EM
I will be interested to see what measurement protocol you end up with and your filter configuration.

If you plan on being accurate, you will have to consider the high field density around a working circuit and the extent to which it radiates. You might think you have an adequate filter to the measurement points, yet your instrumentation will be affected by the proximity to the field. Extended lead length from filters to measurement equipment is a no/no for sure. Addition of ferrite beads can cause spurious harmonics that are not actually generated by the circuit and will upset the reading, giving false indications, as will inductors couple to the local field.

A realizable measurement protocol is very restrictive and in the process of implementation may indeed detune the circuit to where it is no longer able to provided energy node interface.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 05, 2007, 06:19:24 PM
Some points of Fact that should be of interest to all following or working on circuits from this thread. Because not all of you or maybe not many of you visit my site often, I will from time to time post here to update on current status.

A) If your SEC amplifier has both ends of either the Primary or Secondary coil connected, SEC power amplification WILL NOT take place. One end of each coil MUST be OPEN for SEC interface to excess energy.

B) The purpose of a SEC circuit is not to see how many LEDs you can drive, rather the purpose is to see how many you can drive where various measurements indicates Pout/Pin > 1. This can be seen in various configurations from 1 to 90 LEDs. The current in the LED string and the average voltage drop across a representative LED time the number of LEDs is what you want to compare to the input. The light emitted energy is a bonus and not a required measurement to insure SEC interface operation.

C) 99% of the working SEC amplifiers are or can be designed by conventional and proven EE methodologies. What this means is that load matching, current limitations, decoupling etc., is all know and fully applies to most of a SEC circuit.

D) If you cannot detect a HV great enough to light a Neon from the AV Plug (75-90volts) then you will not see anything unconventional from your circuit, you will not see power amplification.

E) If you can touch any portion of your operating circuit with the free end of a wire at least 14" long (one end free of any connection) and see either an increase or decrease of LED intensity, your circuit is NOT operating properly and the Cohered energy is not able to be properly utilized within. A stable SEC circuit will show a barely detectable change in LED output with the addition of a wire probe.

Thanks and hope this might help....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on December 05, 2007, 09:19:00 PM
@DrStiffler,
If I understand your point A above correctly, does this mean using the Thomas oscillator does not produce the desired effects?

Regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 05, 2007, 09:25:18 PM
@DrStiffler,
If I understand your point A above correctly, does this mean using the Thomas oscillator does not produce the desired effects?

Regards

AM
@AhuraMazda
To the best of my current knowledge, this is correct. Although a slight modification will and I will be posting this soon. It entails using an inductor as the load reactance for the oscillator and driving the SEC coil from the collector. I don't want anyone to get to excited over this revelation as the changes are minor but critical.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 05, 2007, 10:06:30 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 05, 2007, 10:43:31 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 05, 2007, 11:07:31 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 05, 2007, 11:19:48 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on December 06, 2007, 12:09:22 AM
Hi EM,
many thanks for your circuits,
but can you please describe them a bit more,what you think
they will do ?
Many thanks also to Ron for clearing a few things up and for his new
updates.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on December 06, 2007, 01:45:22 AM
@emdevices
congratulations you have reinvented the wheel, unfortunately tesla perfected this circuit 80 years ago. You can find a better circuit here---http://keelynet.com/tesla/---- patent 462418. Read the patent and you should understand that this "IS" Dr.Stifflers circuit only it uses a spark gap, the spark gap is an open capacitor just like the leads of Dr.Stifflers secondary coil windings. Tesla understood the shortcomings of the spark gap and produced a better version of patent 462418 in patent 568177. So you should understand that Dr.Stifflers circuit and yours are not new or unique, and we don't need to reinvent the wheel its already been done.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on December 06, 2007, 02:08:44 AM
@emdevices
congratulations you have reinvented the wheel, unfortunately tesla perfected this circuit 80 years ago. You can find a better circuit here---http://keelynet.com/tesla/---- patent 462418. Read the patent and you should understand that this "IS" Dr.Stifflers circuit only it uses a spark gap, the spark gap is an open capacitor just like the leads of Dr.Stifflers secondary coil windings. Tesla understood the shortcomings of the spark gap and produced a better version of patent 462418 in patent 568177. So you should understand that Dr.Stifflers circuit and yours are not new or unique, and we don't need to reinvent the wheel its already been done.

I wouldn't say that doc stiffler and emdevices are re-inventing the wheel, they are just re-applying the same principles in a different fashion.

What's important is that we can (hope, try to?) achieve the same/similar effect Tesla did by using far smaller voltages which makes the entire venture safer and easier. Tesla did not have semi-conductors to make his oscillators and had to use high voltage generators and spark gaps to energize the air and start the oscillations.

Luckily for all of us we do not have to do that today and by using much smaller components the overall design becomes more compact and practical. It also allows for many more researchers to join the project and re-create it in their own (modest?) environments. Not all of us have vast industrial spaces and unlimited machining options to build gigantic coils and oil capacitors. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 06, 2007, 02:09:05 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on December 06, 2007, 02:12:19 AM
oh, It's way more fun to reinvent the wheel   ha ha ha  :D

but, sorry, I don't see what you mean by Tesla's patent.

EM

Looking at one patent won't help, and neither will only looking at its illustrations. You have to read the text and then some more because Tesla's diagrams have simplified symbols for many complex elements, as you can see in the image you have attached. :)

In truth, some cross-reference between various patents is necessary to understand some of those illustrations before a conclusion can be drawn...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 06, 2007, 02:13:28 AM
@emdevices
congratulations you have reinvented the wheel, unfortunately tesla perfected this circuit 80 years ago. You can find a better circuit here---http://keelynet.com/tesla/---- patent 462418. Read the patent and you should understand that this "IS" Dr.Stifflers circuit only it uses a spark gap, the spark gap is an open capacitor just like the leads of Dr.Stifflers secondary coil windings. Tesla understood the shortcomings of the spark gap and produced a better version of patent 462418 in patent 568177. So you should understand that Dr.Stifflers circuit and yours are not new or unique, and we don't need to reinvent the wheel its already been done.

@ allcanadian

It is good to mention Tesla and patent numbers, etc.  But there is no need for the amount of sarcasm and cynicism in your post.  Both the good Dr. and EM as well as others are working hard on this circuit and ways to improve it.  Adding to this endeavour by pointing out other works in this area, to be read and studied is fine.  But I for one have grown sick and tired of the uncalled for sarcasm toward hard working experimenters, by a select few members of this forum.  It does not make you look intelligent.  Quite the opposite.

Enough said.  I'd hate to reinvent the wheel.

Many thanks,
Bruce
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 06, 2007, 02:15:56 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 06, 2007, 03:30:20 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on December 06, 2007, 04:27:18 AM
@btentzer
I agree that sarcasm and belittement of others is uncalled for , If I offended anyone I am sorry.

@Emdevices
I just want to ask an honest question, do you really believe your circuit could go overunity with all the inherent resistance, voltage drops and phase differentials? We know conventional circuits do not work--they never have and never will but we just keep doing the same thing over and over. I had a question along time ago and tesla answered it, my question was where are the losses?  Tesla told me all resistence is overcome by having the voltage raise itself as in a collapsing magnetic field, the voltage rise proportional to the resistence negating all resistence. He told me a unidirectional pulse fed into an open circuit will be forced to radiate its energy, the collapse of this electric field is associated with EM energy. That phase differentials loads the source in AC circuits and this can be overcome by inserting a capacitor to feed an open isolated circuit or a tank circuit including the load. That any open circuit including one wire acting as a capacitance can have all loads act as a capacitance, circulating current within a tank circuit can be maintained by voltage rise but not effect the source of that voltage rise as it is included in an open circuit in a resonant system.
I am not here to belittle anyone I am here to help if I can, all I ask is that you consider the fact that there may be better ways of doing things, non-conventional ways developed by tesla.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 06, 2007, 07:21:04 AM
By the way, these symetrical circuits I posted, are more related to what Hendershot did I believe.
EM
And also Moray!
Cheers and KneeDeep all.........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on December 06, 2007, 08:15:27 AM
@ allcanadian, thank you for the reply and offering to help. I think I could learn many things. You have a good understanding of Tesla's findings and I am sure we could all learn.

I find it interesting how we always want to use modern electronic knowledge and components while trying to find the answers to what we have failed to find with it in the first place.

I have a very small knowledge of modern electronic though I have been recently trying to learn but I never have much luck when I build a circuit. I recently bought an old HP 1707b scope and a Wavetek 134 signal generator on ebay for $50. for both. Now I can do some testing while I learn. I bought 5 loop stick antenna on ebay and here are my finding on just pulsing the coils with no electronic circuits added.

I hooked up one lead of the coil to one lead of my wavetek out which is (20 volt peak to peak) and pulsed the coil with all the frequencies with square waves and watch the scope for activity, at around 2 Mhz it has the best peak, which by the way is the limit of the wavetek. So I hooked up a fluorescent bulb to the out lead of the coil and the other lead to the wavetek and at 2 Mhz it partially lit up. Next I tested to see what would happen if I added more core material around the coil and noticed it would resonate at a lower frequency, which is good for my 2 Mhz limit, so I wraped it with all the cores of the other 4 coils and added a bridge rectifier at the out lead of the coil to the ac side of the rectifier and hooked up the dc side to my volt meter and got up to 250 volts at .6 Mhz. Next I hooked up 93 led in series and they all lit but I found like others that they are brighter if aluminum is behind the project board, so I used a heat sink I had and around .75 Mhz. they lit as you can see in photo 1. Photo 2 is just adding a ground wire to the aluminum and tuned around .65 Mhz and just about doubles the light. Photo 3 is the extra cores around the coil removed and it lights around 2 Mhz and photo 4 is adding the ground and tuning to 1.55 Mhz. Photo 5 is just to show if you can't understand what I mean by adding cores around the coil.

I have no ideal if any of these test have anything to do or help with what we are looking for  ???  ... so I am oppened to sugestions by allcanadian or others who have achived results in collecting radiant energy.

I have built the The 'Callanan Driver' Circuit on Dr. Stiffler page and did not get it to work at all. That is my usual luck with circuits :'(

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 06, 2007, 02:16:25 PM
@fritz

I am no optics expert by a long shot, so just my two cents worth. Old style LEDS mixed Red, Blue and Green to come up with a White beam, while the newer units now coat the emitter with a phosphor much like an FL tube to enable the emission of the CLOSE to white light.

Most consumer light meters are weighted for the response of the human eye and do indeed have weighting filters added making it difficult to measure LED output with the  same accuracy as the standard sources such as Tungsten, Mercury, Fluorescent and Sodium. You also need to now what type of power measurement you are making, lm/m2, lm/ft2 for example.

Without knowing your input device, I would doubt you can measure an entire LED array do to the beam angles not being convergent. I take a representative number of selected LEDS, measure the output from each and take an average, then monitor only one selected LED and extrapolate over the total number. This method allows for ease is seeing the effects of adding and subtracting LEDS from the change and the approach of optimum matching to the driver.

Looking forward to your results; What circuit and coil arrangement will you be using for the testing??? Just wanting to match Apples to Apples......

The idea was to get some grip on the optical output of the used LEDs, efficiency,
strange effects and comparing efficiency if operated in different modes.
So there is no coil, etc. used so far - but maybe later on.

What I found somewhere in my workshop:

TQ8210 - Optical Power Meter, Advantest
with Probe:
TQ82017

It can measure form -60dBm(1nW) up to +17dBm(50mW) in a range
from 400 -1100nm with 5% acc.

This stuff is used to measure monochromatic ligth sources, lasers,
so measuring white is some problem. I found out that measuring
with correction for red, green, blue and building square weighended
means is a good praxis.


DUT 1) http://85.25.136.73/Marfstyle-s47h6-Weiss_White.html
Cheap China LED ? slightly bluish white, dont trust the 20000mcd, 0,45Euro

DUT 2) http://www1.at.conrad.com/scripts/wgate/zcop_at/~flNlc3Npb249UDkwX0NPUF9BVDpDX0FHQVRFMTM6MDAwMC4wMTE1LjI3YTJiMzgzJn5odHRwX2NvbnRlbnRfY2hhcnNldD1pc28tODg1OS0xJn5TdGF0ZT0yMDk0OTA1NDg4====?~template=PCAT_AREA_S_BROWSE&mfhelp=&p_selected_area=%24ROOT&p_selected_area_fh=&perform_special_action=&glb_user_js=Y&shop=AT2&vgl_artikel_in_index=&product_show_id=&p_page_to_display=DirektSearch&~cookies=1&zhmmh_lfo=&zhmmh_area_kz=55&s_haupt_kategorie=&p_searchstring=&p_searchstring_artnr=180005&p_search_category=alle&r3_matn=&insert_kz=&gvlon=&area_s_url=&brand=&amount=&new_item_quantity=&area_url=&direkt_aufriss_area=&p_countdown=&p_80=&p_80_category=&p_80_article=&p_next_template_after_login=&mindestbestellwert=&login=&password=&bpemail=&bpid=&url=&show_wk=&use_search=3&p_back_template=&template=&kat_save=&updatestr=&vgl_artikel_in_vgl=&titel=&darsteller=&regisseur=&anbieter=&genre=&fsk=&jahr=&jahr2=&dvd_error=X&dvd_empty_error=X&dvd_year_error=&call_dvd=&kna_news=&p_status_scenario=&documentselector=&aktiv=&p_load_area=$ROOT&p_artikelbilder_mode=&p_sortopt=&page=&p_catalog_max_results=20
Premium white LED, 3,25 Euro

Interesting points - optical power output with dc current source:

1) @ 1.5uA/2.268V (!!) DUT 1 already emits 340nW - and you can see it (slightly darkened room)
2) @ 100uA/2.504V DUT 1 emits 40uW - thats not too dark
3) @ 10mA/3.110V DUT 1 emits 3.1mW
Top end for DUT 1 is 20mW @ 50mA / 3.63V - that works in my chilly garage -
To be on the safe side - 12mW @ 30mA / 3.45V should be ok.
This gives an average efficiency of 20% up to 10mA - drops then
down to 10% for maximum output @ DUT 1.

The behaviour of DUT 2 is similar, efficiency @ 50mA 20% -
due to probably bigger chip inside and better cooling - this stuff
can be operated up to 35mW(opt) @ 50mA with high efficiency.

Interesting points - optical power output with pulsed dc current source:
DUT 1 works straight forward with pulsed DC dutycycle 50%.
DC (dutycycle 100%) - 15mW optical output
1kHz (dtcyc 50%) - 8mW opt.
this goes down to 5mWopt @ 20MHz (!!)

DUT 2 didn?t survive this test (- ended up with efficiency of 5% and 5V uf @dc).
The resistance or whatever decreases on entering the MHz area (works normal
in the khz range). The LED got darker in the MHZ range in this typical
style which happens if you overload it.

Preliminary outcome of this test:

Behaviour of "modern" white LED can be totally different in the MHz range.

BTW:
Did somebody out there use an LED in varicap configuration ?
An LED operated in the range from 0 to almost uf should have a quite
high capacity... (thats the starting point for my investigation of dying DUT 2 (!!).)

Finally, I operated DUT 1 leds + 2x 4148 at a normal AM coil with round ferrite coil, with
10 wdg primary coil operated by signal generator(50 Ohms).
Output voltage without load - 60vpp.
I could see a 500uA glimming LED @ 1.6MHz using 1 LED (res. maximum).
By adding up to 8 LEDs, I have to increase the frequency up to 20MHz to see
the same optical output on any LED - I have seen on the 1st LED @ 1.6 MHz.
From charge point of view - an LED is somehow a very lossy capacitor - by putting
lots of them in series - you lower these capacity and optimize the "loss" which is
white light in our case.
The combination of low capacity, high loss and high voltage seems to fit very well
to an oscillator with high resonance voltage.

rgds,


PS.: My opinion (at the moment) is, that you somehow drive the ferrite core in the
highly nonlinear area of the B/H curve (top end). This is the way how you get lots of harmonics
and real rf to light the el tubes.
Someday I built a 3way speaker system using tiny choke type ferrite coils (quite optimistic).
They distort like hell - every E-guitar Amp should have one.
(There are professional ferrite coils for speaker usage - but with a core diameter of 50mm)
I used choke stuff ;-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 06, 2007, 02:59:36 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 06, 2007, 03:13:05 PM
No, I don't believe it will be overunity with all that resistance.  I included the resistance so I don't get a realy sharp and narrow spike in the simulation.   But if a circuit will realy tap OU, then I imagine resistance will not stand in it's way.

One of the things I haven?t seen so far (and I can not simulate it) is the B/H breakdown of the used
cores. If there is something interesting - than whats happening there.

Thats whats next on my list.

Anyway - the fact that such simple circuit emits such a strong rf field to power
el tubes - is quite amazing - and needs some research.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on December 07, 2007, 03:23:59 AM



Anyway - the fact that such simple circuit emits such a strong rf field to power
el tubes - is quite amazing - and needs some research.

[/quote]

Yes, indeed! The lamp used in this demo is a Philips PL-L 36 watt, 2900 lumans. Pulling 8 volts 120ma from the battery, the 60 LED's are lit bright (I have a cover over them). The outer pins of the lamp are connected to earth ground as well as the AV plug, the end of the lamp is resting on the 9volt radio battery (Duracell Copper top) case to complete the 'circuit'. I've also taken everything outside and connected to an eight foot driven ground rod, works the same way.
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 07, 2007, 10:35:34 AM
Yes, indeed! The lamp used in this demo is a Philips PL-L 36 watt, 2900 lumans. Pulling 8 volts 120ma from the battery, the 60 LED's are lit bright (I have a cover over them). The outer pins of the lamp are connected to earth ground as well as the AV plug, the end of the lamp is resting on the 9volt radio battery (Duracell Copper top) case to complete the 'circuit'. I've also taken everything outside and connected to an eight foot driven ground rod, works the same way.
Dave
@retrod
Very Interesting - Hmmmmm........KneeDeep  :) Great Stuff! Which circuit did you use ? Will you post the circuit, if it is different to any of the previous posted circuits here or on Dr Stifflers website?
Cheers from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on December 07, 2007, 02:35:47 PM
Yes, indeed! The lamp used in this demo is a Philips PL-L 36 watt, 2900 lumans. Pulling 8 volts 120ma from the battery, the 60 LED's are lit bright (I have a cover over them). The outer pins of the lamp are connected to earth ground as well as the AV plug, the end of the lamp is resting on the 9volt radio battery (Duracell Copper top) case to complete the 'circuit'. I've also taken everything outside and connected to an eight foot driven ground rod, works the same way.
Dave
@retrod
Very Interesting - Hmmmmm........KneeDeep  :) Great Stuff! Which circuit did you use ? Will you post the circuit, if it is different to any of the previous posted circuits here or on Dr Stifflers website?
Cheers from the Toad who Hops
Hi Toady, the circuit is a very slightly modified version of the 'Thomas' circuit that is posted on Dr Stifflers site. I use a one meg resistor and removed the 190pf cap and added a 470uh core in series before the AV plug, that's all. You know, I once worked with an Engineer who thought he was an Owl. You would be having a conversation with him and he would suddenly start hooting and had an uncanny ability to swivel his head around, much like an owl does. It would have been interesting to get you both together.

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 07, 2007, 04:52:51 PM
@retrod,
Great results. Thanks for the posts. Are you using a 2N3904 transistor?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on December 07, 2007, 05:28:23 PM
@retrod,
Great results. Thanks for the posts. Are you using a 2N3904 transistor?
Thanks, your very welcome.  The earlier posts where I had two (old) 40w four foot tubes running partially lit I used the 2N3904. The transistor smoked during another experiment so now I have a 2N2222 in it's place only because it was at hand.

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 08, 2007, 01:52:17 AM
Hi Toady, the circuit is a very slightly modified version of the 'Thomas' circuit that is posted on Dr Stifflers site. I use a one meg resistor and removed the 190pf cap and added a 470uh core in series before the AV plug, that's all. You know, I once worked with an Engineer who thought he was an Owl. You would be having a conversation with him and he would suddenly start hooting and had an uncanny ability to swivel his head around, much like an owl does. It would have been interesting to get you both together.
Dave
@retrod
The conversation would probably have gone something like this..... Hoot,,,
No,, KneeDeep,,,,
Hoot  Hoot,,,
Oh that's what you meant,,,KneeDeep..KneeDeep,,,
Hoot,,,
Croak.... LOL  :D :D :D Cheers and keep up the good work - great results!
From the Toad who Hops   ;D     P.S. Thanks for the information.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 08, 2007, 02:11:42 AM
@retrod,
I went out and bought a small fluorescent bulb and got the following results. Location of bulb is not critical, it still lights bright several feet away from circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on December 08, 2007, 03:34:19 AM
@Xee
Interesting, where you have the lamp tube connected, I have that point connected to Earth. When I do this the LED's remain the same brightness and the battery becomes a 'hot spot'. All I need to do to light the lamp/lamps is have it touching the battery case through the glass of the lamp. Connecting to Earth with the battery off the protoboard plate really enhances this. Also I do not use the beads you are showing.
I'm going to go back and study Dr Stifflers thoughts on closing the loop, the RF effect with the lamps was interesting to me, but perhaps a bit too off tangent for this thread.
Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 08, 2007, 04:19:30 AM
@Xee
.............
I'm going to go back and study Dr Stifflers thoughts on closing the loop, the RF effect with the lamps was interesting to me, but perhaps a bit too off tangent for this thread.
Dave
@retrod
I wouldn't say you were off tangent at all. Almost every experiment presented here thus far, has used LEDS as a load, therefore the experiments are mostly all about light output per unit/watt input. That is, lumens per watt.

Whether using LEDS or Fluorescent tubes as loads, the real challenge in these experiments is to find out whether the primary source of these "Lumens" is produced by RF, HV, and / or ? (something else we don't know about), or a combination of all three.

Personally I find it very interesting that Phosphorus lined "white" light tubes will light at the same frequencies as the LEDS with such a small driving power. In your previous posting, you said "Pulling 8 volts 120ma from the battery". Thats a mere .96 of a watt driving 60 Leds and a Fluroescent load. Sure, the fluro is probably not running at full throttle, but it certainly looked well illuminated just the same.

Is there any change in the brilliance of the LEDS when you couple the fluro to the circuit? I am very interested to know how many fluoros you could couple in this manner, and whether there is a change in brilliance upward or downwards, as well as power consumption figures, as you couple more to the circuit?

It seems to me, that using flurescent tubes in these experiment is, at the very least, sensible in one way, because of the high voltages produced by the secondary. They will not burn out as easily as LEDS, if the voltages go exremely high.

Also, comparing LED only circuits to Fluro only circuits, and a combination of the two, may actually reveal whether some of the effects of these circuits observed are actually due to the properties of LEDS themselves, or are universal effects of the driving circuit, and/or environmental influences. Also in question, is whether the effects are or not dependant on the type of luminescent load.

Well, at least that's what I'd like to find out !........KneeDeep  ;)
Cheers all.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on December 08, 2007, 09:27:43 AM
@Xee

Your experiment is interesting, but it doesn't show any ability of energetic production, The fact that the fluorescent lamp is bright with an electric field of elevated intensity is non absolutely extraordinary, it is a typical demonstrative experiment. The consumption of your instrument is of around 1,3W and surely the fluorescent lamp, with such power, sends the same quantity of bright flow. Exactly as it happens for the LED.
Instead the circuit is interesting, but the scheme doesn't explain, with clarity, the configuration of the wrappings.

Best regards
Adriano
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on December 09, 2007, 01:16:50 PM
@xee: do you also have LEDs connected or just the neon bulb only? how long does it function? which circuit is the most efficient at the moment? is it Retrods?

@retrod: how long does your battery last, when you keep it running?

on the other side, a TV can be powered by a 1,5V Battery for a minute or so (seen somewhere on youtube.com). The question is not, what everything can be lit by a battery. The question is, do i get significant more AmpereHours out, than the same battery normaly can deliver? Or better: Is a circuit able to selfrun by its own power?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 09, 2007, 03:38:56 PM
@ALL

Sorry I have not been around for a few days. Have spent most of that time on getting everything right and simple for presenting my amplifier circuit version. I want graphs, parts and tuning instructions before I release it. I owe it to all that have been working so hard so long.

I am cleaning the audio on the YouTube video's I had removed, four of them are now back and another, maybe two, today. Have changed the series name to Spatial Energy Coherence or SEC. This may indeed be what is called Cold Electricity but I now want to distance my thoughts from that concept.

I'm not gone, have not given up and have some interesting things coming and will post some to YouTube and my site, I have moved away somewhat from the LEDs, I am now focused on excess Heat as it is more reliable to produce and enjoys HV burst which are common in most of these circuits.

For those interested do a Google on the peak frequency of atmospheric noise (~12Mhz range) and how it varies during the day @amigo this may be a partial answer to your observations.

Back soon....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 09, 2007, 06:53:46 PM
@Joh70,
Adding inductors as others have suggested increases efficiency and output voltage. Retrod circuit in my previous post is over 20% efficient with 9 volt battery for some resistive loads. Test was without LEDs. I do not plan to waste a battery to see how long it will run fluorescent bulb. The test was just to see if it would light a fluorescent bulb. Testing with fluorescent bulb might be better than testing with LEDs. But I do not know what is suppose to be happening so I only present it as an option. With added inductors and tweeking of emitter current I have been able to get up to 25% efficiency into some load resistances (this is still not a very efficient circuit).
If this is a double post I will remove. My first attempt did not seem to work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 09, 2007, 07:40:20 PM
comments on efficiency:

A 9 volts battery at 100 mA is supplying 900 mW. My 15,000 mcd green LEDs light with only 0.18 mW (2.26 volts at 0.08 mA). Therefore a 9 volt battery at 100 mA should be able to light 900/0.18 = 5,000 LEDs if power is supplied with 100% efficiency. So why can't I just connect 5,000 LEDs in series across a 9 volt battery and have them light? Because LEDs require voltage to work. To light 5,000 LEDs in series with 2.26 volts per diode would require 11,300 volts. I suspect that this circuit's ability to increase voltage is being confused with ability to increase power.

This does not explain Dr. Stiffler's results. If his measurements are correct, then he is somehow getting more power out, not just more voltage out. The best efficiency I have been able to get with resistive loads is about 25%. He has been able to replace the resistive load with LEDs and get more power out of the circuit than is coming in. To do this the LEDs must be increasing the power the circuit is delivering to the load by over 400%. This is truly an amazing result.

EDIT: Please do not interpret this as not believing Dr. Stiffler's results. He has spent a lot of time and money trying to share a discovery with us and I appreciate his efforts. I intend to keep an open (but sceptical) mind.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on December 09, 2007, 07:53:17 PM
Scroll to 1:33:00 and this he looks like he's doing the same thing, using 1 wire.  Interesting video if you have time.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8377251139652777219&q=free+electricity&total=2393&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: BEP on December 09, 2007, 09:53:49 PM
I find this thread fascinating and have no unique explanation for SEC.

However, I have been wondering if the minor photovoltaic effect, found in most LEDs, is part of the process. I've searched the thread and found no mention of it.

Before this post I connected different LEDs to my scope and all had some output under light with the output going to near zero with no light. I ruled out induction by using a small flashlight as the source (sure, some induction there but couldn't be enough to show on a scope.) The LEDs I have are pretty much garden variety and all colors I'm aware of.

Outputs varied from a few hundred micro-volts to almost half a volt under bright light.

Just curious during breaks from another project.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on December 09, 2007, 10:06:26 PM
   I ran into a circuit for a solar tracker that used two garden variety green led's for the sensors. Just depends on what you use them for.

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on December 09, 2007, 11:13:30 PM
Today I tried a simple test placing the whole SEC circuit using the Thomas driver inside a deep aluminum pan. The 36 watt lamp tube and battery pack are elevated above the circuit by five inches. The AV plug is connected to earth ground. The 12v AA battery pack is just sitting on top of the lamp. 60 white LED's are lit bright as well as the 36w lamp. The battery pack is reading 11 volts and the current is 110ma. With this configuration touching anything (pan, battery, lamp tube) dims the lights a bit. The only conventional way I know of to light these tubes without wires is by using RF energy, almost like a compact florescent lamp. The oscillations in the lamp light are curious, some kind of heterodyne or harmonic pattern perhaps? I'm not sure what the amp hour rating of this AA battery pack is, I imagine the circuit would operate until the battery is exhausted, there just seems to be a lot of light production for a one watt power use.

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on December 09, 2007, 11:22:47 PM
For those interested do a Google on the peak frequency of atmospheric noise (~12Mhz range) and how it varies during the day @amigo this may be a partial answer to your observations.

Thanks for the pointer doc, will read up on the subject more now that I know what to look for ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 10, 2007, 12:11:08 AM
60 white LED's are lit bright as well as the 36w lamp. The battery pack is reading 11 volts and the current is 110ma.

Hmm, some calculation based on my tests with white LED:

One LED @ 1mA takes 2.7mW, @10mA takes 31mW
60 LED @ 1mA -> 162mW; @10mA 1860mW
In your setup the input power is 1.21W -
If we assume that LED and tube emits the same amount of
light - and additional state that the efficiency is almost the same -
we have 600mW for the LED and 600mW for the tube.
This would give a rms current of 4mA for the LED.
It would be interesting to have a reference LED which is operated
with a DC current source as a reference for the electrical
power which operates the LEDs.

Another question is - does the rf field directly excite the phosphor
on the tube - or does it really initiate the gas discharge ?
This would explain the pattern on the tube - this want happen
with gas discharge !?

I?m not sure about the camera used for the photo - but I would say
that this tube is operated in the range of 1 or 2 Watt, not more.

Keep in mind that the human eye adapts in a logarithmic way to the light,
means - the 17mW of optical emission of a normal white LED operated @ 50mA
looks only a little bit brigther than the 4mW operated @ 10mA.
-> you cannot trust your eyes if it comes to optical power.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on December 10, 2007, 06:55:51 PM
xee + retrod, thanks for information. i enjoy reading this. if you further succeed, i will start building my own circuit soon. thanks again.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 11, 2007, 05:10:59 PM
@All

Just an update. The SEC drivers have moved to their own page www.drstiffler.com/drivers.asp and you can also get to them from the link in the main page.

I have added the latest small driver with some modification again, but it makes it stable and so far shows a consistent gain of 2X.

Stay tuned as another driver is about to be loaded named 'The Bedini Driver' by a SEC Researcher wishing to credit Bedini with the initial work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 12, 2007, 07:55:51 AM
Please, I am not attempting to take anything out of context and please correct me if i am wrong, however these two statements within a paragraph of each other, both relating to the "Thomas Oscillator" seem to contradict eachother. One claims OU and the other I interpret to state otherwise. Which is correct ?

"Thomas Oscillator is able to provide a considerable amount of energy to the load, although
as with the Thomas circuit I have not observed the circuit's ability to interface with the
Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy."

"The preceding 'Thomas' oscillator as shown will drive the common SEC coil
to an OU of +2 when using 36 White LEDS. The input current is a small
40mA. This is a great oscillator and simple to build for work with SEC."

ref: http://www.drstiffler.com/drivers.asp



Regards,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 12, 2007, 08:00:43 AM
I have one more question.

How does one observe a circuit's ability to interface with the Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy?

Regards,

Dean

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 12, 2007, 10:07:02 AM
Please, I am not attempting to take anything out of context and please correct me if i am wrong, however these two statements within a paragraph of each other, both relating to the "Thomas Oscillator" seem to contradict eachother. One claims OU and the other I interpret to state otherwise. Which is correct ?

"Thomas Oscillator is able to provide a considerable amount of energy to the load, although
as with the Thomas circuit I have not observed the circuit's ability to interface with the
Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy."

"The preceding 'Thomas' oscillator as shown will drive the common SEC coil
to an OU of +2 when using 36 White LEDS. The input current is a small
40mA. This is a great oscillator and simple to build for work with SEC."
...........
I have one more question.
How does one observe a circuit's ability to interface with the Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy?
Regards,
Dean
@Dean,
I noticed the glaring contradiction on the driver page as well. A grammatical error by omission perhaps?
Both of your questions are good questions, deserving a response.

I've been playing around for the last couple of weeks with various incarnations of the Thomas circuit, and whilst I can easily achieve multiple LED and Fluoro Activation, I have not yet detected anything occurring which cannot be explained by HV and /or RF. At first I was a little mystified by some of the effects, but ongoing reading and personal research and experimentation, leads me to deduce, that the circuit I am using is not extraordinary. Perhaps others may be having better luck and results, with the Thomas or other circuits?
Cheers all.
KneeDeep from the Toad who Hops.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: minesapint on December 12, 2007, 12:29:53 PM
I lashed up the circuit from the doctors website using a hand wound coil and a sig gen.
What I found is that the circuit behaves just like a tuned circuit as you would expect - resonant at 2Meg and 10Meg.
I could not light the LED without a ground, it would even work with a high Z ground (finger etc...)

My analogy is that the driver is a RF generator and the LED circuit behaves like a crystal radio.
If you've ever played with a crystal radio you'll know you need a ground and an aerial.

A crystal radio is not OU despite it gets power from the 'aether'.

I really can't see anything special with this circuit. Ok, so I have only spent an afternoon on it and I maybe missing something.....

Oh well.

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bruce_TPU on December 12, 2007, 01:35:43 PM
I lashed up the circuit from the doctors website using a hand wound coil and a sig gen.
(snip)
I really can't see anything special with this circuit. Ok, so I have only spent an afternoon on it and I maybe missing something.....

Oh well.

 

@minesapint

Hardly an accurate replication attempt, wouldn't you agree?  Please use the coil core that was specified by the good doctor.  Very skilled people have been working on this for months.  Now the doctor reports twice the power out as in and you simply say, "Oh well." because you could not make it work?  Back to the bench....  ;)

I have one more question.

How does one observe a circuit's ability to interface with the Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy?

Regards,

Dean



@ Dean
I took that statement to mean that it did not produce more power out then in.  If the circuit interface's properly you will know it because OU, additional energy, more power out than in, what ever you want o call it, is there and verifiable. 

If it does not interface properly, then none of the above.  That is how I understood that statement, anyway.   ;D

Holiday Cheers,
Bruce
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 12, 2007, 08:49:19 PM
Please, I am not attempting to take anything out of context and please correct me if i am wrong, however these two statements within a paragraph of each other, both relating to the "Thomas Oscillator" seem to contradict eachother. One claims OU and the other I interpret to state otherwise. Which is correct ?

"Thomas Oscillator is able to provide a considerable amount of energy to the load, although
as with the Thomas circuit I have not observed the circuit's ability to interface with the
Spatial Lattice and Cohere additional energy."

"The preceding 'Thomas' oscillator as shown will drive the common SEC coil
to an OU of +2 when using 36 White LEDS. The input current is a small
40mA. This is a great oscillator and simple to build for work with SEC."

ref: http://www.drstiffler.com/drivers.asp



Regards,

Dean
You are correct this statement is in error. I do my own programming now and did not remove this statement when I moved the drivers to their own page. Sorry I'm not Perfect....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 12, 2007, 08:51:52 PM
I lashed up the circuit from the doctors website using a hand wound coil and a sig gen.
What I found is that the circuit behaves just like a tuned circuit as you would expect - resonant at 2Meg and 10Meg.
I could not light the LED without a ground, it would even work with a high Z ground (finger etc...)

My analogy is that the driver is a RF generator and the LED circuit behaves like a crystal radio.
If you've ever played with a crystal radio you'll know you need a ground and an aerial.

A crystal radio is not OU despite it gets power from the 'aether'.

I really can't see anything special with this circuit. Ok, so I have only spent an afternoon on it and I maybe missing something.....

Oh well.

 
Apples to Apples, Oranges to Oranges.

Gee! I have spent 10 years..........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on December 14, 2007, 08:14:29 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 15, 2007, 02:00:25 AM
@mramos.
See page 55 for details of his experiment.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Joh70 on December 15, 2007, 03:52:56 AM
hi mamros, good luck finding out out how this circuit works, especially how long it lasts with a specified amount of power (Ahours of a battery). Every measurement with meters etc. are tricky because of the high frequencies and inductances and so on. Would be interesting to know exactly, is there more power out than in, and if yes, at what factor.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on December 15, 2007, 09:05:28 PM
@mramos -

If your goal is to measure the power in the LED chain (the "AV loop") - and then to compare that with the input power, it is probably best NOT to build the Thomas oscillator for this purpose. That circuit optimizes light output, but not measurable power. This sounds odd: that the light and measurable power are not in a linear relationship - but the whole experiment is odd.

As Dr Stiffler stated in one posting - this Thomas circuit probably does not benefit from the full SEC effect, since it does not have the open wire lead (which is the open end of the 9 turn primary). However if you were only going to use a light meter for testing, then this simpler circuit does produce an enormous amount of light. For the full SEC effect, you need the one-wire open lead and that means a more complicated circuit

Therefore, and to replicate the putative overunity, which has been mentioned to be COP ~2, my suggestion is that it would be wise not build the simpler circuit, but build the second circuit on that page - the Stiffler circuit. It is a bit more complicated, but it does actively cohere the SEC effect, and it will show considerable more power in the secondary loop, than the P-in from a battery.

rgds
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 16, 2007, 02:21:38 AM
on page 45:

"I have posted a new oscillator that works very well, 'The Thomas Oscillator'

It uses a single transistor and when the start resistor is properly selected and used  with the coils as I specify it is very effective and can drive 36 Ultra-Bright White LEDS while being very OU.

Take a look at it, no excuse for not using it, this is a great driver. http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp"

@Jonesbeene,
Have you been able to replicate a power gain with any of these circuits. If so please give details. So far Dr. Stiffler is the only one to post any detailed data showing a power gain and he used a"DC" voltage measurement without any corrections for an AC voltage contribution to compute current while previously stating that in a properly running circuit this could not be done. There seems to be a lot of claims and very little data.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on December 16, 2007, 04:07:50 AM
@ Xee

The quote you posted from Dr Stiffler's site, if I am not mistaken, has been retracted (the part about the Thomas circuit showing measurable OU) . The amount of light from the circuit made it appear to be OU at first - but AFAIK the actual measurements showed otherwise. I am not a spokesman for DrS and I have often misunderstood details which have changed over time. To be fair, people should realize that this is just one man, who is trying to balance a heavy work load involving an evolving experiment, a detailed web site, and other ongoing projects -- so yes - mistakes - especially in communication, will be made. I commend him for what he has done, and believe that more detail will be forthcoming next week, despite the Holiday season in the USA.

Accurate power measurement in the AV plug is difficult, since as you mention -- what "should be" DC, because of all the rectification of 38-44 diodes is not complete, partly because the plug itself appears to be acting as an "antenna" of sorts. However, we (myself and another person who is not connected to DrS) have seen what "appears to be" excess power, even more than has been claimed, and are attempting to have measurements done and certified by a professional RF engineer with better equipment. Our skills in RF are lacking but this is an easy circuit to achieve what seem like amazing results. However, as you probably know, there is always this BIG problem in RF with what is called "reflected power" and since we are dealing with what is essentially a flyback converter on steroids, operating at much higher frequency than you will find used with a Tesla coil, for instance, it is in a realm which is beyond the normally well-documented details of electrical devices. This circuit looks like an energy anomaly to me, yet it could be only a super-efficient "3D antenna" for some kind of radiation. The active "zone" which DrS talks about is about the size of a basketball, and is probably a blob of stray capacitance which has been irradiated with one frequency and which will cohere other frequencies, perhaps many, and that is why I mention the analogy of a 3D antenna.

Or it could be something totally different. I hope others will keep chipping away at the underlying details, and provide their own measurement technique and results. Given how fast this has evolved so far, an improved circuit may turn up tomorrow. Maybe from you.

rgds
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 16, 2007, 04:29:37 AM
from page 47:
After the Avramenkp plug there is pure DC at the LEDs and the cap, so it is easy to measure there the DC power in the LEDs. No optocoupler circuit needed, you can measure pure DC electrical power.

I do indeed dispute that you have true DC. If another of the group that has worked with me wants to add to this, great, but, you can not on a properly running SEC circuit just throw a big electrolytic across the AV Plug and get DC.

Even with very elaborate low pass filters consisting of canceling inductors, followed by a 10uf + 0.1uf + 0.01uf followed by two 8mm ferrite beads, you can still hold a neon on the end with one lead in your fingers and get it to light. A true SEC circuit is at such high impedance that the mere addition of a couple inches of wire is enough to change the frequency.

EDIT: page numbers in this post and my previous post refer to pages in this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 16, 2007, 05:28:08 AM
As a self declared skeptic of OU, I have followed this thread from the very beginning. I have built many varying incarnations of the Thomas oscillating circuits (blocking oscillators) to explore the "effects" myself. Why do I maintain an interest when most of the effects appear to be nothing more than RF.?????

Throughout the thread there have been statements about a very strong field emanating from the circuit which appears to end abruptly within a metre or so of the circuit. The next time you turn on one of these little circuits, if you have a television, then turn it on too. Roam through the TV channels and see what sort of interference patterns you may or may not have.

I've been experimenting with my setup on the kitchen table, while I watch the TV in the corner of the room. It's a large room and the television is at about 4 metres away. When I watch ABC (channel 2 Australian national TV) on the UHF spectrum, the patterns of interference almost blur out the picture entirely. When I add various Flourescent tubes as loads and point them at the TV, I can "draw" an interference pattern on the screen that looks like a fireworks "sparkler".

Clearly this is interference from an RF output of the circuit, and it is emanating in all directions at a much greater distance than 1 meter. Even when connecting LEDS and Fluoros, they do not contain the total RF output, they only trap some of it for re-emission as photonic radiation. But it appears they are not simply passive/reactive components. They do indeed change the operating frequency of the circuit and themselves become an extension of the RF antenna system.

This is why you may be able to successfully measure your source consumption, but you'll never find a singular way of measuring total output, because the entire circuit is an active antenna. The circuit signals are rich in high order harmonics, and measuring the output by any method is almost impossible. What intrigues me is the amount of heat that is generated so quickly in the transistor, when the circuit is slightly de-tuned by prodding around with your finger or a piece of wire. Yet the LED and Fluoro output often remains the same, and apparent
current consumption remains unchanged.  ???

With so much energy leaving the circuit as RF, the transistors still manage to fry themselves regularly with excessive heat which is not reflective of the apparent current they are switching.  ???

Hmmmmm...........KneeDeep, so many questions still......
Cheers from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 16, 2007, 05:01:03 PM
My opinion:

As pointed out by Dr. Stiffler and others in this thread, there is a strong RF electric field around this circuit. This is demonstrated in my test on page 76 of this thread where I was able to light a fluorescent bulb several feet from the circuit with only one wire to the bulb. This RF field induces RF currents in the circuit wires and the test equipment wires. In my tests using resistors, the currents induced in the test leads were equal and thus canceled out. However, when making measurements where there were LEDs in the circuit, the LEDs rectified these induced RF currents producing rectified RF currents that added to, or subtracted from, the DC current. Thus it was impossible to make any accurate measurements when using LEDs without extensive shielding of the voltmeter test leads.

In Dr. Stiffler's test results on page 55 of this thread, he computed the output power using the current through a resistor in the LED chain. In his calculations he assumed that the voltage he measured across this resistor was 100% DC. Even though he had some filtering, I believe that the voltage he was measuring had a considerable amount of rectified RF picked up by the leads in the LED chain. Thus I suspect his output power calculations are not correct and the circuit probably was not producing more power out than was coming in.

I guess I have gone from open minded (but skeptical) to just plain skeptical.

EDIT: The significance of the measured voltage not being DC is that then power can not be computed as voltage times current. Instead the phase angle between the voltage and current must be measured and the effective RMS voltage has to be determined before power can be computed.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 17, 2007, 08:18:33 PM
@All

Measurement withing 'any' SEC circuit is 'magic' at best. Why, because you are working with an interface that is at HIGH impedance and does not like to be connected back to large capacitive mass, like antenna's (long wires, test leads) or Earth or Power Grid. The observation of SEC amplification takes care, extreme care, until the beast is better understood and tamed. It is not as simple as garbing your DVM and measuring the voltage across a battery.

It's not impossible and indeed once learned, is somewhat straight forward, yet not simple. The main reason replicators are fearful of posting results is not only the feedback (negative) that may result, but many are up and down on what they are seeing. One minute it's for real, we have it, the next minute, where did it go, can't obtain the same readings. In an effort to tame and control this problem, many of us have turned to design of working measurement disciplines. Figuring out 'HOW' to do the measurements so they are accurate and acceptable to the public. So far this has turned into its own challenge.

As it turns out, most all experimenters are not in a position or have the equipment required to obtain an accurate set of readings from a properly working SEC circuit (without stopping it).

Here is a great example; A quality Lab, fully voltage and current regulated power supply all of a sudden during SEC tuning shows 'No Current' and the voltage indication drops by two or more volts. Does this mean that the circuit is putting power back into the supply or does it mean the RF is messing with the electronics in the supply? Either one can be true. So switch to a battery, now you see a large return pulse into the battery greater than the current drawn, is the SEC charging the battery or is this a meaningless artifact? It's both.....

I so much want to post a final circuit that can be build with moderately simple procedures, yet it also requires a measurement method that can prove that the circuit is doing what it should. This is what the hold up is at this time. It is proving more difficult to prove it than to produce it, at least in the general public area. If everyone have a sophisticated lab, no problem if you have a few hours, but for the general public, it's a real problem.

Hang in there with me. There are people working on this and unless we are all nuts or delusional it will come.

I have added another measurement circuit that many help some of you working on this, it can be found at www.drstiffler.com/buildup.asp at the bottom of the page.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 18, 2007, 01:16:49 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler:

I don't think you are nuts.  I truly believe that you are on to something very, very interesting and you are attacking it in a very methodical, scientific manner.  This takes time.  Anything worthwhile done correctly usually does.  I appreciate your honesty in your discussion of measurements.  It sounds to me like that is what is happening to some of the experimenters. Getting a handle on that is a big part of this I believe.  Please continue your great efforts.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 18, 2007, 02:41:43 AM
I don't think you are nuts either.

Though video 10 with the closed loop would be a boon  ::)

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 18, 2007, 03:29:27 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler,
Good luck in your research and please keep posting your results.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 18, 2007, 03:48:23 PM
@All

A new driver named in the honor of Bedini for all his work in the FE pursuit was provided to me by Mark McKay, PE. The diagram of the new driver also includes the test and evaluation setup used by Mr. McKay to explore various SEC circuits. As seen in his title, Mr. McKay is a qualified engineer and is making every effort to replicate in a conventional scientific way the SEC effect and determine if indeed it is new or conventional.

Take a look at his setup, it shows the great care that is required to produce accurate and meaningful measurements from a test circuit. As can be seen, it is no small matter to test these circuit configurations, yet as Mr. McKay has shown, it is or should be possible.

Thanks to Mr. McKay and Bedini for the inspiration he has provided Mr. McKay in the quest for finding new energy forms.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: xee on December 19, 2007, 03:01:03 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler,
I know you have spent a lot of time working on this so you probably have already thought of this. But, I would suggest you put the whole circuit with battery in a metal box, such as a school lunch box or cookie tin, with a tight fitting metal lid. Then use two filter feedthrus to bring the rectified DC out of the box. That way all of the RF energy would be trapped in the box and measurements could be made without any RF being induced in the LEDs and test equipment. I have already spent more time on this than I planned so I do not wish to try this myself.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on December 21, 2007, 12:11:32 PM
Why has it gone so quiet in here?

@DrStiffler
I was put out a bit at the efficiency figure of 81% with the "bedini driver" then I noticed the light output has not been counted for.
Also, I personally don't trust digital meters in these instances.


Regards

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 21, 2007, 09:16:15 PM
Why has it gone so quiet in here?

@DrStiffler
I was put out a bit at the efficiency figure of 81% with the "bedini driver" then I noticed the light output has not been counted for.
Also, I personally don't trust digital meters in these instances.


Regards

AM
Yes, very observant of you! :-)

Well lets blame the Holidays for the lack of postings.

In my case I have been waiting for over a week for 200 MOSFET's which got lost. Now a re-shipment will not arrive until after the first of the year. In short all is alive and well, but maybe not so public....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 23, 2007, 09:33:22 AM
@ Stiffy

Lets not blame the lack of measurable over unity for the lack of postings ... heaven forbid

 8)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 23, 2007, 12:56:12 PM
Measuring optical output:

I think one of the best methods to evaluate the
efficiency of these designs is to compare the optical
output of a SEC setup vs. "DC" setup with current source
using a "fixed" installation of a LED chain and a LUX-meter.
There are lots of old analogue LUX-meters (I bought a
"Gossen" some years ago) - and compared to a modern,
digital one - the precision is even better.
If you adjust the dc current of the reference setup to that amount
which produces the same optical output as the SEC - you
get a grip on the nominal input needed.
If the effect even works with resistive loads - a comparison/matching
of the load temperature ( as mentioned some hundred posts earlier)
would be useful.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on December 23, 2007, 01:16:49 PM
@ fritz,

And how do you propose to close the loop ?

Cherrys

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: emitremmah on December 23, 2007, 03:26:49 PM
Just a thought. It has been said and proven that you don't need a battery or power source to run a crystal radio.
Dr. Stiffler's circuit seems to both receive and transmit RF and is especially strong in a sphere around the unit. Could not additional, separately tuned receivers be placed inside the sphere of influence and be used to drive the oscillator which then runs the Dr. Schiffler circuit. Perhaps others are trying to learn what the transmitted frequency is in order to do this.

Bernard
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on December 23, 2007, 04:32:41 PM
Just a thought. It has been said and proven that you don't need a battery or power source to run a crystal radio.
Dr. Stiffler's circuit seems to both receive and transmit RF and is especially strong in a sphere around the unit. Could not additional, separately tuned receivers be placed inside the sphere of influence and be used to drive the oscillator which then runs the Dr. Schiffler circuit. Perhaps others are trying to learn what the transmitted frequency is in order to do this.

Bernard

That works, and I believe good doc had shown it, but the problem is that the circuit is self-tuning and so the frequency is never the same. So, the transmitter circuit would tune to one frequency; then you'd add your receivers around it and spend time tuning them to the optimal performance. And yet if you restart your transmitter (power off and power on) it might not tune back into the same frequency thus voiding all the work you have spent on your receivers. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on December 23, 2007, 05:38:29 PM
@amigo
You could try a PLL. failing that, there is nothing that a PIC can't cure!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on December 24, 2007, 05:03:55 AM
But of course, there's always a solution, I was just pointing out that in the present incarnation that would not be so easy. After all this, thread is about doc. stiffler's original experiments, circuits and their replication.  :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nul-points on December 25, 2007, 03:55:43 AM
hi all - happy holidays

apologies for the long post - it may help by shortening the thread in the long run

i check out this site from time to time to see what's happening & was interested to find this thread - interested enough to register just so i could reply to this thread...

... which seems to raise so many questions

the Avramenko plug operation & single wire power transfer at high voltage & frequency are frequent-flyers on OU related sites - interesting and potentially useful (no pun intended) - but not new

so, if you connect an AC signal source with some power capability into a transformer and load the secondary with an LED you could expect to light the LED if the unloaded pk-pk secondary voltage is greater than the Vf of the LED and there is sufficient current drive

the LED will not only partially rectify the output signal, it will also limit its amplitude on the forward drive half-cycle

if the secondary voltage drive capability is high enough you could add another LED in series (same polarity orientation) and expect to light the 2nd LED too - with similar forward volts-drop

the output voltage will be clamped to the sum of the two diode forward voltages - but the current will still be driven higher whilst the input waveform rises on each forward half-cycle

as someone has pointed out earlier in the thread, the human eye is extremely non-linear in perceiving brightness - and it has persistence of image - so it is difficult to judge visually just what is happening when more LEDs are added

you could expect to add as many LEDs, each apparently lit as brightly, up to a total forward volts drop equal to the loaded output capability of the transformer for that input signal

so far you've only added LEDs for one polarity swing of the output waveform - you can also expect to be able to drive a similar set of LEDs in parallel & with the opposite polarity

is this system providing power out independent of source? no - we're just adding load up to the drive capability of the signal source & transformer combination; it's just that it appears to the human eye that each additional increment in the load is adding to the power transfer & not sharing it between them

LEDs don't generate much heat - so its difficult to use temperature to measure the power out

why use LEDs when you could just drive heaters (or temperature-stable resistors?), use a calorimeter and get some once-and-for-all results which confirm or deny a power transfer anomaly?

so, why use LEDs? after all, we're not trying to make it difficult to see what's going on ...are we?

some interesting observations to be found on the Stiffler Scientific logo:-
  the flask in the LH lower corner has the label '317', the white stripes at the base of the 'Science' shield are the equivalent of 317 in binary, the series of red 'dots' in the blue banner behind the eagle's head are the units representation of 317

what's the deal with 317? well, anyone who used to play with calculators will tell you that 317 makes 'LIE' when you turn it upside down - is there a hidden agenda here we need to know about?

google turned up some interesting results for Ron Stiffler and telos-research on the OUPower.com website back in Nov 2004
  http://oupower.com/forum/index.php3?request=2951&HoursOld=48

PS did i miss the post which explains the 'selfrunning' in this thread's title?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on December 25, 2007, 05:03:17 AM
some interesting observations to be found on the Stiffler Scientific logo:-
  the flask in the LH lower corner has the label '317', the white stripes at the base of the 'Science' shield are the equivalent of 317 in binary, the series of red 'dots' in the blue banner behind the eagle's head are the units representation of 317

what's the deal with 317? well, anyone who used to play with calculators will tell you that 317 makes 'LIE' when you turn it upside down - is there a hidden agenda here we need to know about?

Oh, you gave me a chill!  It reminds me of the moment in "The Shining" when you find out what REDRUM means.

I'm sure we'll here the other explanation of 317 soon enough, but this one will still be creepy.

Quote
PS did i miss the post which explains the 'selfrunning' in this thread's title?

A lot of threads around here have hyperbolic titles, but you can't blame Doc Stiffler for that one.  The thread was already in full swing by the time he showed up here.

Merry Christmas,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on December 25, 2007, 05:14:52 AM
Just a little note - I tried cutting the wire between both sides of the circuit, and then twisting it around itself. It still worked without much change. However, this really shouldn't mean that much, as its probably just acting as a twisted wire capacitor.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 25, 2007, 09:31:11 AM
@ fritz,

And how do you propose to close the loop ?

Cherrys

Dean

Even if the optical output vs. electrical input exceeds the rated
efficiency of the LED its very interesting.
If the effect only occurs with LED - the only way to close the loop
is using solar cell. In this case the "overunity" has to be 5 (electrical vs. optical)
to compensate the 20% efficiency of the solar panel.
If the effect occurs even with resistors - there should be a way to close
the loop with electrical means using highly concentrated, small dcdc converter.
In that case an overunity of - lets say 1.8 should be enough (electric-electric).
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 25, 2007, 09:53:41 PM
hi all - happy holidays

apologies for the long post - it may help by shortening the thread in the long run

i check out this site from time to time to see what's happening & was interested to find this thread - interested enough to register just so i could reply to this thread...

... which seems to raise so many questions

the Avramenko plug operation & single wire power transfer at high voltage & frequency are frequent-flyers on OU related sites - interesting and potentially useful (no pun intended) - but not new

so, if you connect an AC signal source with some power capability into a transformer and load the secondary with an LED you could expect to light the LED if the unloaded pk-pk secondary voltage is greater than the Vf of the LED and there is sufficient current drive

the LED will not only partially rectify the output signal, it will also limit its amplitude on the forward drive half-cycle

if the secondary voltage drive capability is high enough you could add another LED in series (same polarity orientation) and expect to light the 2nd LED too - with similar forward volts-drop

the output voltage will be clamped to the sum of the two diode forward voltages - but the current will still be driven higher whilst the input waveform rises on each forward half-cycle

as someone has pointed out earlier in the thread, the human eye is extremely non-linear in perceiving brightness - and it has persistence of image - so it is difficult to judge visually just what is happening when more LEDs are added

you could expect to add as many LEDs, each apparently lit as brightly, up to a total forward volts drop equal to the loaded output capability of the transformer for that input signal

so far you've only added LEDs for one polarity swing of the output waveform - you can also expect to be able to drive a similar set of LEDs in parallel & with the opposite polarity

is this system providing power out independent of source? no - we're just adding load up to the drive capability of the signal source & transformer combination; it's just that it appears to the human eye that each additional increment in the load is adding to the power transfer & not sharing it between them

LEDs don't generate much heat - so its difficult to use temperature to measure the power out

why use LEDs when you could just drive heaters (or temperature-stable resistors?), use a calorimeter and get some once-and-for-all results which confirm or deny a power transfer anomaly?

so, why use LEDs? after all, we're not trying to make it difficult to see what's going on ...are we?

some interesting observations to be found on the Stiffler Scientific logo:-
  the flask in the LH lower corner has the label '317', the white stripes at the base of the 'Science' shield are the equivalent of 317 in binary, the series of red 'dots' in the blue banner behind the eagle's head are the units representation of 317

what's the deal with 317? well, anyone who used to play with calculators will tell you that 317 makes 'LIE' when you turn it upside down - is there a hidden agenda here we need to know about?

google turned up some interesting results for Ron Stiffler and telos-research on the OUPower.com website back in Nov 2004
  http://oupower.com/forum/index.php3?request=2951&HoursOld=48

PS did i miss the post which explains the 'selfrunning' in this thread's title?
Wow! You sound like a Mr. H20FORME type of guy???

Should not have wasted all that time, pity. 317 is the catalog number of bacterium I found in human skin cells and the 317 is the number of days it took until it was identified. Cheers Dude.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: elias on December 25, 2007, 11:21:21 PM
hi all - happy holidays

apologies for the long post - it may help by shortening the thread in the long run

i check out this site from time to time to see what's happening & was interested to find this thread - interested enough to register just so i could reply to this thread...

... which seems to raise so many questions

the Avramenko plug operation & single wire power transfer at high voltage & frequency are frequent-flyers on OU related sites - interesting and potentially useful (no pun intended) - but not new

so, if you connect an AC signal source with some power capability into a transformer and load the secondary with an LED you could expect to light the LED if the unloaded pk-pk secondary voltage is greater than the Vf of the LED and there is sufficient current drive

the LED will not only partially rectify the output signal, it will also limit its amplitude on the forward drive half-cycle

if the secondary voltage drive capability is high enough you could add another LED in series (same polarity orientation) and expect to light the 2nd LED too - with similar forward volts-drop

the output voltage will be clamped to the sum of the two diode forward voltages - but the current will still be driven higher whilst the input waveform rises on each forward half-cycle

as someone has pointed out earlier in the thread, the human eye is extremely non-linear in perceiving brightness - and it has persistence of image - so it is difficult to judge visually just what is happening when more LEDs are added

you could expect to add as many LEDs, each apparently lit as brightly, up to a total forward volts drop equal to the loaded output capability of the transformer for that input signal

so far you've only added LEDs for one polarity swing of the output waveform - you can also expect to be able to drive a similar set of LEDs in parallel & with the opposite polarity

is this system providing power out independent of source? no - we're just adding load up to the drive capability of the signal source & transformer combination; it's just that it appears to the human eye that each additional increment in the load is adding to the power transfer & not sharing it between them

LEDs don't generate much heat - so its difficult to use temperature to measure the power out

why use LEDs when you could just drive heaters (or temperature-stable resistors?), use a calorimeter and get some once-and-for-all results which confirm or deny a power transfer anomaly?

so, why use LEDs? after all, we're not trying to make it difficult to see what's going on ...are we?

some interesting observations to be found on the Stiffler Scientific logo:-
  the flask in the LH lower corner has the label '317', the white stripes at the base of the 'Science' shield are the equivalent of 317 in binary, the series of red 'dots' in the blue banner behind the eagle's head are the units representation of 317

what's the deal with 317? well, anyone who used to play with calculators will tell you that 317 makes 'LIE' when you turn it upside down - is there a hidden agenda here we need to know about?

google turned up some interesting results for Ron Stiffler and telos-research on the OUPower.com website back in Nov 2004
  http://oupower.com/forum/index.php3?request=2951&HoursOld=48

PS did i miss the post which explains the 'selfrunning' in this thread's title?
Hi

It is a shame to see such a post! I recently joined here because it seemed that it has so much useful info, but also some rude people too. I ask Stefan to delete these types of posts. You sound like those people who think know what electricity is! But let me tell you something: Even Tesla the inventor of our whole power industry claimed that he did not know what electricity was.

So when we talk about cold electricity don't expect to measure the output power by amps or heat.
Please apologize Dr Stiffler,

That's all I can say, Take care
Elias
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 25, 2007, 11:32:31 PM

Wow! You sound like a Mr. H20FORME type of guy???

Should not have wasted all that time, pity. 317 is the catalog number of bacterium I found in human skin cells and the 317 is the number of days it took until it was identified. Cheers Dude.
ROTFL___________________
If I search for strange numbercodes on special
transistor/ic - and find nothing - I typical endup
in some sequence of the human genome.
 _ sorry _, offtopic
what next ?

Happy Christmas !!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nul-points on December 26, 2007, 02:54:48 AM
hi again

first up, an anomaly is reported - can we explain it by conventional understanding? if we can then we move on - if we can't then it's worth exploring more (the anomalous behaviour might prove useful in it's own right, of course)

i read this thread and my first post attempted to generalize the reported conditions to try and see if there might be some conventional explanation - it seems to me there might, but we need to try & get a better handle on making some measurements in order to come to some conclusions

is my approach is unscientific? i hope not

do i claim to understand electricity? i don't believe so

my experiments to explore FE have centred around the Jensen UDT & variants of the magnetic parallel path system - no anomalies to report so far, but it hasn't stopped me planning to continue the experiments

secondly, as 'scientists' i hope we all look at data for evidence of currently unexplained patterns - when we find such evidence i hope we all want to start investigating in more detail

i found patterns in the Stiffler Scientific logo - i was interested and looked for more information - i reported some of my findings

was this unscientific?

my post contains an attempt to explore a report of anomalous electrical behaviour, some observations of an interesting pattern contained in the Stiffler logo, and a link to another OU site where Google found another instance of the name 'Ron Stiffler'

you can read my post - you can read Ron's response

i'm not going to tell people what to believe - about electricity - or anything else - just search for facts and draw conclusions from them.

isn't that the scientific way?

i've been really encouraged by this site - lots of good work being done by people researching physical anomalies and sharing results - lots of good work done by Stefan in setting up & maintaining the site!

good luck everyone with new & existing experiments in 2008!
sandy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on December 26, 2007, 03:49:29 AM
mramos,

logos are not silly, on the contrary they have quite a depth both archetypal and symbolical that most people ignore because they do not know or do not care (while they should both know and care because logos affect us on many levels). Whether doc.stiffler had noble (or not) intentions with this logo is not an issue, the fact is he made a logo that carried a purpose and a meaning, at least to him, to the point of becoming almost as a personal rune, and someone recognized that. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 26, 2007, 07:54:35 AM
Fritz, the LM317 is a very popular adjustable regulator.  First thing that came to mind for someone like me "who thinks they know electronics".  ROTFL myself.
4148,741,555,317,327,2222,914,6502,8008,.....,SP1000(;-)
The ROTFL was on the spontaneous drift into numerology.
I really googled some very strange matched RCA high voltage drivers
down to the human genome project .....
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 26, 2007, 04:45:58 PM
@ Stiffy

Lets not blame the lack of measurable over unity for the lack of postings ... heaven forbid

 8)



Even my friends do not disrespect me to the point of calling me childish names.

You totally did not understand the post. Maybe read it again and see if you can do a bit better.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 26, 2007, 05:16:41 PM
hi again

first up, an anomaly is reported - can we explain it by conventional understanding? if we can then we move on - if we can't then it's worth exploring more (the anomalous behaviour might prove useful in it's own right, of course)

i read this thread and my first post attempted to generalize the reported conditions to try and see if there might be some conventional explanation - it seems to me there might, but we need to try & get a better handle on making some measurements in order to come to some conclusions

is my approach is unscientific? i hope not

do i claim to understand electricity? i don't believe so

my experiments to explore FE have centred around the Jensen UDT & variants of the magnetic parallel path system - no anomalies to report so far, but it hasn't stopped me planning to continue the experiments

secondly, as 'scientists' i hope we all look at data for evidence of currently unexplained patterns - when we find such evidence i hope we all want to start investigating in more detail

i found patterns in the Stiffler Scientific logo - i was interested and looked for more information - i reported some of my findings

was this unscientific?

my post contains an attempt to explore a report of anomalous electrical behaviour, some observations of an interesting pattern contained in the Stiffler logo, and a link to another OU site where Google found another instance of the name 'Ron Stiffler'

you can read my post - you can read Ron's response

i'm not going to tell people what to believe - about electricity - or anything else - just search for facts and draw conclusions from them.

isn't that the scientific way?

i've been really encouraged by this site - lots of good work being done by people researching physical anomalies and sharing results - lots of good work done by Stefan in setting up & maintaining the site!

good luck everyone with new & existing experiments in 2008!
sandy
**first up, an anomaly is reported - can we explain it by conventional understanding? if we can then we move on - if we can't then it's worth exploring more (the anomalous behaviour might prove useful in it's own right, of course)

So far all that attempt or do explain in conventional terms are doing so to either dismiss the findings (and bury them) or attempt to place the finding into their current frame of understanding which again results in non-acceptance because they do not understand.

Here is my feeling on how to approach this adventure into alternative and non-conformist energy research.

@Enter into it with only the basic teaching from electronics/physics and only as a guide to stop you from doing plain stupid things like burning things up because one can not calculate current or resistance. Do not enter with even the faintest thought that something is impossible. When I lecture I have a saying I use, "All things are possible, but some things are impractical". This saying does say it all in my mind and is the correct way in which to approach this so called OU/FE search.

@Entering into this field with restrictions already embedded in your mind, will result in failure of your attempt or your lack of understanding of information presented by others.

@Be prepared for 99% of your peers offering nothing but condemnation. This is common place in the normal scientific fields and has been from the beginning, yet when something falls beyond a lifetime of study and work, condemnation is extreme and ugly.

So ugly is the peer condemnation that people even attempt discredit by looking for and presenting such mundane things as the meaning of a Logo!

It seems possible to me that some people are so upset if they can not have handed to them everything that they revolt to the extreme. If one can not build something (their) way, from (their) parts with (their) idea, then it just plain must be a hoax. My answer to this is what some of the younger people of today say, "GET REAL"

If embedded Logo meaning or sinister messages diatribe turns on people in this thread then I have really wasted a lot of time here. I am not providing information here on my work to be criticized, ostracized or demoralized. I came here to offer real work results and it is up to you to duplicate, measure and apply that information in a way that will in the end benefit everyone.

Everyone on this thread needs to review why they are here. If you are here for what I feel if knowledge then you know what to do with it and how to move forward. If your here for trouble, to stand out as some genius for making up stories about a Logo or saying this or that law of science says it not possible, then WHO! are you, get out, go someplace else where you can get the kudos's you so seek.

This thread is for REAL people with needs and the desire to work with me towards solving those needs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: elias on December 26, 2007, 09:40:04 PM
hi again

first up, an anomaly is reported - can we explain it by conventional understanding? if we can then we move on - if we can't then it's worth exploring more (the anomalous behaviour might prove useful in it's own right, of course)

i read this thread and my first post attempted to generalize the reported conditions to try and see if there might be some conventional explanation - it seems to me there might, but we need to try & get a better handle on making some measurements in order to come to some conclusions

is my approach is unscientific? i hope not

do i claim to understand electricity? i don't believe so

my experiments to explore FE have centred around the Jensen UDT & variants of the magnetic parallel path system - no anomalies to report so far, but it hasn't stopped me planning to continue the experiments

secondly, as 'scientists' i hope we all look at data for evidence of currently unexplained patterns - when we find such evidence i hope we all want to start investigating in more detail

i found patterns in the Stiffler Scientific logo - i was interested and looked for more information - i reported some of my findings

was this unscientific?

my post contains an attempt to explore a report of anomalous electrical behaviour, some observations of an interesting pattern contained in the Stiffler logo, and a link to another OU site where Google found another instance of the name 'Ron Stiffler'

you can read my post - you can read Ron's response

i'm not going to tell people what to believe - about electricity - or anything else - just search for facts and draw conclusions from them.

isn't that the scientific way?

i've been really encouraged by this site - lots of good work being done by people researching physical anomalies and sharing results - lots of good work done by Stefan in setting up & maintaining the site!

good luck everyone with new & existing experiments in 2008!
sandy

Hi Sandy,

Wish you a new joyful year, Sorry if I offended you, but I certainly think that we all must respect Dr Stiffler here, as for sure he is here to help us, and a very honorable man. I thought that you think you understand electricity because you claimed about measuring power by using heat. But cold electricity or Radiant electricity doesn't heat things. It is rather cooling than heating.

Let's honor Dr Stiffler and support him.

Thanks   ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 26, 2007, 09:53:05 PM
mramos,

logos are not silly, on the contrary they have quite a depth both archetypal and symbolical that most people ignore because they do not know or do not care (while they should both know and care because logos affect us on many levels). Whether doc.stiffler had noble (or not) intentions with this logo is not an issue, the fact is he made a logo that carried a purpose and a meaning, at least to him, to the point of becoming almost as a personal rune, and someone recognized that. :)

Not to drift off topic, but as nothing it happening here with the circuit.  As I stated, they mean nothing "to me".  :)  My kids have avatars all over the place (like the logos) and they mean a lot to them.  Like there kewl nic-names do.  I use my real name, maybe a lack of originality.   

I just like to get the work done, maybe when the work is done, I will make a cool logo ;)  I have a family crest from Spain as well (somewhere, would have to look for it).

I do still agree nul-point is right, except for analyzing the logo.  hahahaha.. 

I would love some someone to prove different though.  Would make a great Christmas present.

peace..
****I would love some someone to prove different though.  Would make a great Christmas present.

Maybe you just looked under the wrong tree :-)

www.drstiffler.com/drivers.asp

To stop all debate before it starts and gets out of hand, to prove me right or prove me wrong, you will need to use calorimetry, sorry, but you can not just wet your finger and touch a hot resistor and say yes or no.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on December 27, 2007, 04:23:03 AM
To stop all debate before it starts and gets out of hand, to prove me right or prove me wrong, you will need to use calorimetry, sorry, but you can not just wet your finger and touch a hot resistor and say yes or no.

I think licking the finger would definitely work better in determining the wind direction, but even that's up for debate... :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 27, 2007, 11:05:14 AM
To stop all debate before it starts and gets out of hand, to prove me right or prove me wrong, you will need to use calorimetry, sorry, but you can not just wet your finger and touch a hot resistor and say yes or no.

I think licking the finger would definitely work better in determining the wind direction, but even that's up for debate... :D
KneeDeep.......It definitely depends on where you stick the aforementioned "finger",  after you've licked it......KneeDeep... ;D  :D
Amigo, glad to see you're still cheerfully hanging around this thread. You're doing well for a person who professes to being impatient!  LOL.
Just wondering how those 20 cores of yours are aiding your cause in finding the cause! ...... LOL.

Have you had any particular variations in circuit configurations which you would say are definitely putting out more usable light than the others for a given input? I'm not asking whether you have achieved O/U, but whether it has become obvious that one or two particular circuit configurations are definitely more efficient (conventionally speaking) than others?

For me the jury is still out, on whether RF excitation or DC is the most efficient way to illuminate LEDS. That's because, I have neither the correct measuring equipment, nor the funding for such equipment to make any real judgments on the actual circuit consumption and output. But apparent consumption figures derived from the cheap digital meters that I possess, indicate values in favour of RF excitation as the best method. ???

Currently I am running 50 LEDS hooked up as 25 AVR plugs in series, and the one thing that continually confuses me, is that I get a greater light output when one end of the chain is open, than I do, when I connect each end of the LED chain to each of the secondary output leads in a closed loop load condition.

Ordinarily I'd put this down to de-tuning due to impedance mismatch, but even when I connect a 10 meg variable pot in series with one lead of the secondary, it will not make a scrap of difference to tuning capability. The LEDS are always brighter when one leg of the secondary is not connected to the LED chain ???

As usual, I have more questions than answers....sorry... KneeDeep
Cheers all.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on December 27, 2007, 02:52:37 PM

****I would love some someone to prove different though.  Would make a great Christmas present.

Maybe you just looked under the wrong tree :-)

www.drstiffler.com/drivers.asp

To stop all debate before it starts and gets out of hand, to prove me right or prove me wrong, you will need to use calorimetry, sorry, but you can not just wet your finger and touch a hot resistor and say yes or no.

"The current Stiffler Driver able to produce significant excess Heat in a 1K ohm carbon resistor.
Heat gains in excess 500% while the driver transistor runs cool."

The fact that the driver transistor runs cool proves that its operated in a way
where there is no significant loss.....- whats essential for a OU setup.
Both facts in one sentence is mixing apples with pears and suggests that
the temperature difference between driver transistor and output
resistor has something to do with COP.
Maybe this was not your intention - just to clarify.

500% excess would mean that the temperature difference of the resistor
heated by the output is 5 times higher as if the resistor is heated by the
input power of the device.
Operating the load resistor as reference with the same power (u x i)
from a dc power supply should give 1/5 of the temperatur difference if
the "situation", cooling, ambient temperature is identical.
If the resistor has a temperature of 70 deg Celsius - Ambient 20,
the difference is 50. In this case there should be 30 deg C on
the reference setup operated with dc power to prove 500%.

congratulations !
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on December 27, 2007, 08:24:10 PM
KneeDeep.......It definitely depends on where you stick the aforementioned "finger",  after you've licked it......KneeDeep... ;D  :D
Amigo, glad to see you're still cheerfully hanging around this thread. You're doing well for a person who professes to being impatient!  LOL.
Just wondering how those 20 cores of yours are aiding your cause in finding the cause! ...... LOL.

Have you had any particular variations in circuit configurations which you would say are definitely putting out more usable light than the others for a given input? I'm not asking whether you have achieved O/U, but whether it has become obvious that one or two particular circuit configurations are definitely more efficient (conventionally speaking) than others?

Hi hoptoad :)

Yes, I'm still around, though keeping myself busy with other things at the moment, namely vortex mathematics (per Schauberger, and recently Rodin) as it relates to magneticity (term coined by Ed Leedskalnin). Speaking of dielectric and magnetic inductance, I read this document Free Energy Research of Eric Dollard - notes 1986-1991 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/73155/Eric-Dollard-Notes-19861991) where Eric talks about Golden Ratio spiral (basically Walter Schauberger's hyperbolic mathematics or Rodin's coil) and then goes into flow of electromagnetic energy through a conductor, lines and tubes of force, dielectricity and capacitance, etc.

I still have to try that latest "Bedini" based driver, but measuring light output with our eyes just does not cut it anymore. It all looks the same to me and it most likely isn't. Should try to build at least a light probe with an IR filter on it - no point measuring what we can't see or use. ;D

I also wonder if we (someone?) could "draw" a co-relation between measured light output and oscillator frequency, whether there is some connection there if frequency is higher or lower and if/how does that affect light output.

Regards.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 29, 2007, 02:02:42 AM
........
I also wonder if we (someone?) could "draw" a co-relation between measured light output and oscillator frequency, whether there is some connection there if frequency is higher or lower and if/how does that affect light output.
@Amigo,
Do you have a spreadsheet program like Excel? If so, you could use it to enter measured light output units in one column and oscillator frequency for each measured output in another column, then use the graph features to "draw" your correlation curve.
If you don't have Excel, you could download OpenOffice for Windows (it's completely free) from OpenOffice.org. The OpenOffice Spreadsheet program has all the basic functions of Excel, including graph capabilities. Graphs can be drawn in various formats, including line graphs.

Cheers from the Toad who Hops.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on December 29, 2007, 06:58:06 AM
Perhaps we are closer to closing the loop than we thought.  A resistor generates heat with virtually 100 percent efficiency. High efficiency Seebeck effect thermoelectric modules can offer possible efficiencies in the 20 percent range, converting a difference in temperature to electricity.  The combined efficiency could therefore be effectively 20 percent.  This is a far higher conversion efficiency then any typical combination of LED plus Solar cell. (Assuming that for some strange reason a DC-DC converter couldn't be used!)   As an example, a Stiffler circuit consuming 1 watt of electricity, but  generating 5 watts of heat in a resistor would yield 1 watt of electricity in a Seebeck module (20% of 5 watts) plus 4 watts of free waste heat. While this theoretical circuit would not generate excess electricity, it would be self sustaining and act as a "free" 4 watt heater (waste heat from the Seebeck module).  The trick would be to design a Stiffler circuit that could drive a Seebeck module into its optimum thermal range, and to find a Seebeck module with at least 20% efficiency!

Title: Anomolus Cooling in Stiffler "Christmas Circuit"
Post by: Spokane1 on December 30, 2007, 07:48:03 PM
Dear Non-Funded Researchers

Have any of you observed or measured a repeatable 7 degree C temperature drop (from Ambient) in the switching transistor of any of Dr. Stiffler's proposed circuits, especially in the latest "Christmas Circuit"? [see http://www.drstiffler.com/drivers.asp]  In fact, have you ever observed a measurable temperature drop in any signal transistor in any circuit?

This observation has dipped into the well of my ignorance. I know that strange cooling has been reported with various OU systems, in particular the E.V.Gray Motor and the Hendershot device. However, to the best of my knowledge this cooling was involving the conductors, not active components.

Before I get to excited about this I would like to consult the collective wisdom of this group. Perhaps, I'm dealing with a rare, but very classical process that manifests itself under certain conditions.

If this is a unique process I shall be glad to post all the technical details of my setup. However 95% of the information is already disclosed by Dr. Stiffler. In my exploration I'm using three (3) hand wound air coils 27 Turn - 1" diameter - #23 AWG magnet wire for the inductors. Be sure to note the orientation of these coils, because it makes a big difference in achieving the cooling mode of operation. I don't know why. My energy harvest circuit uses a 32 Volt DIAC in lieu of the 120V sidactor (parts on order). The storage capacitor is a 200 uF 330 WVDC Flash Electrolytic (Not measured). The diodes are IN4148. The switching transistor is an MPSA06. The base capacitor is 400 pF Silver Mica. The circuit is operating at 15V. The amount of cooling will decrease (get warmer) 1 degree C for every  1 Volt drop (approx.) in supply voltage. Supply current varies between 50 and 65 mA, depending upon the state of the storage capacitor charge. Higher supply voltages can probably be used, but this is the limit of this supply (for now). The resistive dumping load is a #1447 incandescent panel lamp 12V 130 mA

While in the cooling mode of operation the base switching frequency of the transistor is 1.8 MHz. There is a very observable ringing frequency of 27 MHz impressed on the Collector current - which may be significant. The energy harvest circuit dumps at 32 Volts and recovers at 23 Volts, so I'm only harvesting a 9 Volt difference at a time, or about 5 mJ. The time between dumps in this circuit is 135 mS. The lamp glows just a little.

Important Note: Generally I observe the Vce voltage while exploring these circuits with my Oscilloscope using a standard 10:1  10Meg-3pF probe. Connecting the scope probe to the collector (ground to B-) of the switching transistor KILLS THIS MODE OF OPERATION. I have no clue as to why. I can't think of any classical reason why it would do this since there is no grounding conflict.

The attached Trace is of Ic. This is taken with a Pearson Pulse Current Transformer Model #150 where the B+ supply wire is wrapped 5 times around the transformer. The resulting scale is 20 mA per vertical division. Accuracy may be impaired by 10% using this technique.

Lost Energy:

This was suppose to be an OU circuit, but so far it turns out to be a -OU circuit. According to my calculations I'm only recovering 5% of the inputed 750 mW in my energy harvest circuit. My switching transistor is getting cold ---so where the heck is all my classical energy going? I hope the FCC won't be knocking on my door for EMI interference.

Respectfully,

Spokane1

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 30, 2007, 09:56:20 PM
Measuring Heat or lack of, on the cheap, yet effective. Far from the pro's that have worked this out to the last 100th of a degree, 'Little C' will for sure give answers for Heat production in excess of COP>2. It would work lower, but I will defer that to the labs that specialize in this type of measurement. The following are some pictures as it was constructed and where the circuit sits when tested. Oh and yes, it is also a combined Faraday Cage/ Calorimeter all in one.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 30, 2007, 10:15:40 PM
Forgot the picture of the underside of the tank. Shows one of the temp probes and the stirrer.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on December 30, 2007, 10:58:45 PM
Hi Doc,

This power calculation on your drivers page is incorrect.

Wrms = Jc * sqrt( Ton / ( Ton+Toff ))

Since Jc is in joules, you want:

Wrms = Jc / (Ton+Toff)

It still comes out to overunity with the values you measured.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Anomolus Cooling in Stiffler "Christmas Circuit"
Post by: Mr.Entropy on December 30, 2007, 11:23:02 PM
According to my calculations I'm only recovering 5% of the inputed 750 mW in my energy harvest circuit. My switching transistor is getting cold ---so where the heck is all my classical energy going?

From your measurements, I calculate 50%, which isn't a conventionally unreasonable efficiency for this kind of circuit.

The transistor getting cold is really wierd, though.  There is a thermoelectric effect, but that can't cause net cooling of the transistor if all the leads are the same metal.  The best it could do is to cool the top while heating the bottom.  Is it possible that the transistor is getting hot on the bottom?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Anomolus Cooling in Stiffler "Christmas Circuit"
Post by: DrStiffler on December 30, 2007, 11:44:35 PM
According to my calculations I'm only recovering 5% of the inputed 750 mW in my energy harvest circuit. My switching transistor is getting cold ---so where the heck is all my classical energy going?

From your measurements, I calculate 50%, which isn't a conventionally unreasonable efficiency for this kind of circuit.

The transistor getting cold is really wierd, though.  There is a thermoelectric effect, but that can't cause net cooling of the transistor if all the leads are the same metal.  The best it could do is to cool the top while heating the bottom.  Is it possible that the transistor is getting hot on the bottom?

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy

Okay, how are you accounting for the duty cycle not being 50/50? Would it not be the same in the general sense as that of a squarewave calculation?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on December 30, 2007, 11:47:21 PM
Dear Mr. Entropy,

Good call on checking for a temperature difference on the bottom of the switching transistor. I shall report after I make some hardware changes.

In the mean time could you review my method of determining how much classical energy is being harvested with the DIAC collection approach.

My method is to merely compare energy (in mJ) between what the storage capacitor dumps compared to how much energy was inputted in the same period of time.

The capacitor dumps every 135 mS. The start voltage is 32 Volts the residual voltage is 22.44 Volts. This is about a  9 Volt differential. With a 200 uF capacitor this means a loss of  5.22 mJ.

In the same time period of 135 mS the Power supply is running at 15.06 Volts at an average current of 65 mA. This calculates to an energy input of  132 mJ.

So 5.22 mJ out/ 132 mJ in  is a pretty dismal 3.9% return on my input.  However this circuit is not quite up to Dr. Stiffler's Specifications and was just being explored until the proper components come in.

Please let me know what I'm missing here.

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nul-points on December 31, 2007, 02:01:16 AM
Hi Sandy,

Wish you a new joyful year, Sorry if I offended you,

hi Elias

you're very gracious to apologise but you have not offended me

i've been priviliged to meet and/or study writings of some honourable engineers: over 30 years ago when i started work as a graduate engineer i was in the next lab to Eric Laithwaite - an inspiration to inquiring minds

when i was introduced to him he was testing one of his prototype MAGLEV systems, using it to fire pieces of steel lamination down the length of the track and into the wall at the far end of the room! he later became more famous for demonstrating anomalous OU-like gravity-altering behaviour of gyroscopes - something the 'Established' classical-engineering community couldn't accept and for which they never forgave him

i have also been inspired by the writing, research and patents of Harold Aspden (someone who is older even than me!) who has been involved in the proven OU/cooling behaviour of dissimilar metal junctions in cross-EM fields and who also produced some research in conjunction with Robert Adams (creator of the Adams Motor)

these are people who had classical engineering training and were not afraid to use it to good effect investigating anomalous behaviour in a variety of engineering disciplines

but I certainly think that we all must respect Dr Stiffler here, as for sure he is here to help us, and a very honorable man. 

i have no experience of Dr Stiffler so i could not comment on how honorable he is

all the best to you all with your research!
sandy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mr.Entropy on December 31, 2007, 02:06:44 AM
In the mean time could you review my method of determining how much classical energy is being harvested with the DIAC collection approach?

Sure:

Quote

My method is to merely compare energy (in mJ) between what the storage capacitor dumps compared to how much energy was inputted in the same period of time.

Yes, that's right, but:

Quote
The capacitor dumps every 135 mS. The start voltage is 32 Volts the residual voltage is 22.44 Volts. This is about a  9 Volt differential. With a 200 uF capacitor this means a loss of  5.22 mJ.

The energy stored in a capacitor of C farads with V volts across the terminals is C*V*V/2.  Because the voltage is squared, you can't calculate an energy differential from a voltage differential alone -- you need to use the two voltages:

E1 = 0.0002 * 32 * 32 / 2 = 0.1024 J
E2 = 0.0002 * 22.44 * 22.44 / 2 = 0.0504 J
E1 - E2 = 0.052 J

Since you get this 0.052J out every 0.132s, power

Pout = 0.052J/0.132s = 0.394W

Quote
In the same time period of 135 mS the Power supply is running at 15.06 Volts at an average current of 65 mA. This calculates to an energy input of  132 mJ.

That's Pin = 15.06V *0.065A = 0.979W, which is more than the 0.75W you quoted above, giving a COP of 0.394W / 0.979W = 0.402.  Still quite reasonable.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Anomolus Cooling in Stiffler "Christmas Circuit"
Post by: Mr.Entropy on December 31, 2007, 02:31:53 AM
Okay, how are you accounting for the duty cycle not being 50/50? Would it not be the same in the general sense as that of a squarewave calculation?

You don't need to account for the duty cycle in this calculation.

The duty cycle compensation you refer to arises from the calculation of average power using voltage and impedance.  Instantaneous power is V*V/R, and average power is:

P = \integral (V*V/R)dt / (t1-t0)

What we call the RMS voltage is:

 Vrms = sqrt( \integral (V*V)dt / (t1-t0) )

And that makes:

P = Vrms*Vrms / R

as long as R is constant.  Vrms for an on-off waveform is:

sqrt( (Von * Von * Ton) / (Ton + Toff) )

= Von * sqrt(Ton/(Ton + Toff)).


But you're not calculating average power using voltage and resistance.  You're using energy and time, dumping Jc joules every (Ton+Toff) seconds, so you can just divide.  If you were calculating using voltage and resistance, you couldn't use the on-off duty cycle calculation, because you wouldn't be getting an on-off waveform out of the capacitor.  You'd have to do the integration.  If Ton << Toff, you'd find that:

\integral (V*V/R)dt = Jc

Note that the simple method of using the capacitor energy differential, Jc, neglects any energy delivered by the circuit during the discharge cycle.  Since you have Ton / T = 0.2, you might expect your answer to be short by 20% or so -- exactly how much depends on many things.  This error would be reduced if you made the duty cycle shorter.

Cheers,

Mr. Entropy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Spokane1 on December 31, 2007, 06:04:33 AM
Dear Non-Funded Researchers

Please accept my apologies for the questions about the anomalous 7 degree temperature drop.

The instrument I was using to measure the transistor temperature proved to be defective and was reversing the readings. What I thought was a lower temperature was really a higher temperature. Thus the return to normal reading when the circuit was shut down or the probe moved off the transistor. This really got me confused.  Fortunately I had a back up meter at the barns that quickly displayed the error. I was reluctant to touch the transistor directly because I thought it might push it into an unstable condition.

My inexperience with temperature probes is showing.

This only shows me how easy it is to make gross mistakes and how much we rely on single instrument readings.

Well, I shall continue on.

Spokane1
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on December 31, 2007, 06:26:24 AM
@Spokane1

 I too, have never heard of an entire transistor  cooling below ambient. In most cases, ohmic (resistance) heating would swamp any localized cooling. Transistors are normally expected to heat above ambient, often needing a heatsink to prevent overheating.  While there would certainly be a small  (Peltier) temperature difference between the PN junctions on the transistor die, the structural design of most transistors is intended to maximize the shedding of heat by means of thermal transfer to its case and leads.  In your scenario, If the Peltier effect is taking place, then 1 or more of the transistors leads would be getting quite warm or even hot. If the transistor case AND all leads are below ambient temperature, then something truly weird is going on! (According to traditional thermodynamics, heat can be moved, but not destroyed.)   Perhaps an infrared camera with a macro lens, if available from a lab or building inspector, would reveal the hot and cold spots in your circuit.


In the Peltier effect, when electrons flow from a region of high density to a region of lower density (like in a PN Junction), they expand and cool (like the freon gas in a refrigerator). The other side of the junction gets hotter.  The Seebeck effect is the mirror image of this, where a heat differential creates a voltage. Both of these effects are really just different expressions of the thermoelectric effect.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 31, 2007, 09:03:44 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on December 31, 2007, 09:11:11 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 31, 2007, 10:11:57 PM
Dr Stiffler,

Is your circuit board self contained with battery and everyting?   Nice compact design, I like it.

So you plan on measuring the battery voltage before and after to determine the power input and the temperature to measure power output?

I'm not so sure about that.

EM

P.S.  What are you stirring in there,  Air?   LOL  :)
What?

Not being disrespectful, but have you started New Years early?

Where do you get the idea I measure power by measuring battery voltage? "I'm not sure about that either"

You have been upfront so far and made sense, but what is this post about?

The stirrer stirs Water in the Heat exchanger.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on January 01, 2008, 12:04:20 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 01, 2008, 01:18:46 AM
Quote
Not being disrespectful, but have you started New Years early?

LOL,  :D     No not yet, but I am a bit more silly then usual, I'm bored out of my mind at work and I'm ready to go home and experiment.


I was just wondering on how you plan to measure the Input Power,  and I'm not quite clear on where it's coming from, since I don't see any wires going into your calorimeter.  Hence the speculation that you're using a battery. Are you? 

The question I have is, how do you plan on measuring the Input Power, or are you?

I'm assuming you're intent with this experiment is to do Power IN vs Power Out calculations, is that not the case?    (where you use a Calorimeter for the power out calculation)

that's all, just currious what your doing there.

Happy Preemptive New Year   LOL :D

EM
You are 100% correct in not seeing wires as there are none. In fact the circuit shown (used for illustration) is not even complete to where it would function. The whole purpose was to show the unit that can be build on the cheap and yet be accurate to a meaningful level.

The wires from a regulated DC supply supply go into the top of the bottom rectangular chamber. The input is measured and the temperature is measured with the digital meter shown and a K probe. All measurements except) the small self contained digital are captured by a LabJack and fed to a computer and into a spreadsheet.

Now you are sounding like the fellow I held respect for.

Thanks for the interest and coverage of a complete test will be on my web site soon.

Have one for me, to old to have more than one now days :-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Schpankme on January 01, 2008, 02:39:15 AM

Thanks for the interest and coverage of a complete test will be on my web site soon.

Have one for me, to old to have more than one now days :-)


Dr Stiffler.

Your doing a fine job sir; your work is easily replicated. 

Thank you,

Schpankme

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on January 08, 2008, 05:45:18 PM
This thread seems to have died. Has everyone given up trying to get OU from the circuit, or are big things happening behind the scenes?  Can we expect an announcement soon of something big?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 09, 2008, 07:42:46 PM
After many emails that were complaints about developers now needing a calorimeter to test SEC drivers I came up with a cheap and simple way that you can if so inclined can build one that is accurate enough to use for the moderate power SEC drivers into a carbon load resistor.

See www.drstiffler.com/pmc.asp for details
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 09, 2008, 07:51:04 PM
Did you ever wonder just how little current it would take to bring a White LED to moderate brightness under the right conditions?

The following picture should be self explanatory.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on January 09, 2008, 08:01:28 PM
   Hmmm?   Neon or wheat bulb?

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 09, 2008, 08:06:45 PM
   Hmmm?   Neon or wheat bulb?

thaelin


NE2
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 10, 2008, 08:37:21 PM
No one is listening (except other groups :-) ), thank goodness. I goofed and need to insure you do not destroy your digital thermometer if you build a PMC.

As it turns out, so much RF is going into the load resistor that it destroys the DTm's. You need to decouple them. Here is a picture of what I came up with for doing that. You can find a diagram on my web site.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: onhold on January 11, 2008, 02:17:34 AM
@Dr Stiffler
Sir I just finished the PMC but wait - what driver should I be using? Did I get the cart before the horse? Please tell me which driver to use????

thank you
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on January 12, 2008, 06:06:57 PM
Dr Stiffler,

Any comments on the progress being made at the magnet motor thread ?

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 12, 2008, 08:30:42 PM
Dr Stiffler,

Any comments on the progress being made at the magnet motor thread ?

Cheers,

Dean
Sorry, don't know squat about motors and to old to start now. Is this in reference to any of my work on SEC or something different? If involves SEC, what thread??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 17, 2008, 11:27:41 PM
Oh how people flock to the so called next gold mine... >:(

It appears that all the great minds here still do not get it. Well I will post another YouTube video in the next 48 hours if this damn MS software will stop inverting my video.

I will show one of the basic keys to the whole process. Open loop, open circuits, high impedance, if this does not draw some back for another look, well....

I will post a link here if I have time, otherwise you let your mouse do the clicking.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on January 18, 2008, 12:36:52 AM
@Ron,
I am still here and still experimenting! Look forward to your new video.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on January 18, 2008, 01:40:12 AM
Yeaaaaaaa   ;D ;D

I'll bring the pop-corn. My replication of yours is in need to see its bigger brother at the big screen!!!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2008, 03:24:48 AM
Well it's still not the "Free Lunch" but it should offer a key I think most have missed.

Simple to test and well worth the couple of minutes it will take. But? Do you get it yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklrnyQMktA
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on January 18, 2008, 04:08:31 AM
Interesting video Dr Stiffler. Very impressive with the low current consumption. The coupling reminds me of a magnetic amplifier at times.

RD
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on January 18, 2008, 04:35:30 AM
Hey doc, you did not lose audience, I'm still around following this experiment...

In the last video it appears as if you are providing a ground path for the resonance field which loads the drive coil to the high voltage each time you hold the proper end of the coil with 9 turns next to it?

It could be that your body acts as a self-adjusting tuner so it does not matter which frequency the drive coil is on, you will tune to it. That is, your body will provide enough resistance to the ground/environment to tune to. So could you lower/increase the resonance from 4.3MHz and see what happens by finding another sweet spot?

If you want a crazy idea though, here it is: could we rid us of the front end Stiffler driver circuit and use the body potential to generate some voltage/current in reverse way from the current circuit? Human body itself should be able to generate some potential, and by boosting it up we might be able to use it to do some useful work...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on January 18, 2008, 06:28:24 AM
@Dr Stiffler
Yeh, I'm still looking on with great interest. I haven't personally been able to achieve anything myself with your circuits due to lack of funds for testing and runtime equipment and also lack of time. But I've been checking this thread and your site regularly for further information and posted results.
Keep up the good work all of you.
Cheers from the Toad who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: smoky on January 18, 2008, 06:47:24 AM
Hi Doc, if your question in the video wasn't a rhetorical one, I think it could be the hi permeability of the ferrite which intensifies whatever ambient magnetic radiation there is through its core. Due to it's higher relative mu factor. With many turns of wire wrapped around the 1st core and no load resistance, a high voltage is induced in the winding. This could be then coupling to the 2nd core's winding  via electrostatic coupling (capacitive effect).  Because they are both very high impedance and there is virtually no current in the 1st cores coil to produce electromagnetic coupling.  This could be tested with a simple type Faraday shield mesh between the rods.

I have purchased the bits to try the earlier version of this project, so as not to be just an armchair critic.   
Thanks for you efforts Doc.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2008, 01:45:57 PM
@amigo
As it always seems to happen, it comes across wrong, next vid #9.5 may help. "Touching the coil is not involved" Vid 9.5 will clear your thoughts on this.

@smoky
Next vid will help. Some notes in advance (1) input energy does not change between loaded and not loaded. (2) coils in 9.0 are 1:1 (3) freq is the only measurable that changes with load. (4) this is an open system, both drive coil and power coil.

@amigo
The freq in the driver bing used is load defendant and ideal is around 3.57-3.58 mhz.

New vid up today, web site update over weekend.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on January 18, 2008, 02:04:16 PM
Well it's still not the "Free Lunch" but it should offer a key I think most have missed.

Simple to test and well worth the couple of minutes it will take. But? Do you get it yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wklrnyQMktA

Good Morning Dr. Stiffler,

I haven't given up on you theory or device, quietly working here on it and 2 other ideas from other folk.......When you plug the numbers into the spread sheet, what does the COP come out to? 

If you move that sniffer coil around both coils while in operation, you will see some very intersting waveforms at different positions.  It is interesting that with the metering shown on the power supply, the DC input to the Osc can be as low as .6 watt and as high as .78 watt but again if there is significant excess energy gathering, this should not be a problem. 

There are some radical variables in the first coil as the relative high power very fast pulse that hits it (at a 4.3Mhz repetition rate) first causes a rapid rise time electrostatic wave through the coil and this field develops, then when the neon fires, there is a relative low current flow back towards the Osc. via a ground loop that causes a magnetic field at right angles to this electrostatic wave.  I wonder if the interaction between the two fields (electrostatic and magnetic) is significant?  Second, the other coil that goes to the SIDAC circuit also pulses much higher magnetic pulses and there has to be a significient magnetic coupling between the two coils and cores.....Something to think about a bit more.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: emitremmah on January 18, 2008, 02:09:30 PM
Hello Doctor,
I am still hanging around. Until I get a breadboard there is little I can do?
This is the first electrical setup that has interested me as it should be fairly simple to replicate and perhaps get exited over.
About your last vid, you showed what occurs with only the rod and with the original 2 winding coil.
What about a 2 winding coil without a core. Is the ferrite required for saturation or capturing of the magnetic flux to generate the frequency.
It is as though this is an RF receiver and transmiter and also a step up transformer. More like an RF step up transformer without external power requirements. But what little I know about electricity is 100 time more than I know about RF.  All I know about electricity is if it doesn't work get another battery.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 18, 2008, 04:00:37 PM
@RStiffler
The videos are very interesting, it is a pleasure to see good quality video for a change.

When building these circuits it should be considered that the quality of current has changed, our views of "current" are polarized in that we assume the current must be closed loop returning to its source. The currents produced in the secondaries however need not follow the laws we have created for ourselves. The currents become relative to everything, that is they can move to seperate isolated circuits, to grounded plates, to ungrounded plates and depending on the potential and period of oscillation act as a unidirectional current. I have asked a question many times in other threads---- what do you call a high frequency/high potential impulse?--- DC. But this "DC" is only one half of the potential difference, the earth ground can provide the other half ,having no relevance to the source battery or the primary circuit----- open loop. It should also be noted that the practice of  "isolation" ensures the working circuit can never effect the source, so in this case many of the laws we apply in conventional circuits no longer apply.
Best Regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2008, 05:04:56 PM
@RStiffler
The videos are very interesting, it is a pleasure to see good quality video for a change.

When building these circuits it should be considered that the quality of current has changed, our views of "current" are polarized in that we assume the current must be closed loop returning to its source. The currents produced in the secondaries however need not follow the laws we have created for ourselves. The currents become relative to everything, that is they can move to seperate isolated circuits, to grounded plates, to ungrounded plates and depending on the potential and period of oscillation act as a unidirectional current. I have asked a question many times in other threads---- what do you call a high frequency/high potential impulse?--- DC. But this "DC" is only one half of the potential difference, the earth ground can provide the other half ,having no relevance to the source battery or the primary circuit----- open loop. It should also be noted that the practice of  "isolation" ensures the working circuit can never effect the source, so in this case many of the laws we apply in conventional circuits no longer apply.
Best Regards
Sir!,  that is very well stated and from my point of view, 'A very accurate understanding' of some of what is taking place in the SEC circuits and others that the conventionalist's are turning away from.

There is a massive flow of energy around and through everything in the universe (including we humans) and because the earth is such a large dynamic mass it can indeed be or appear as a focal point for some of these energy flows, yet it is only a focal point or conduit if you will and is not the actual source.

Why do I get the feeling that you 'been there, done that'?

Thanks for the accurate and allied posting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2008, 05:15:09 PM
@Ben K4ZEP

Thanks again for pointing out the resolution of the regulated supply, although in this case it has no relevance, power was not discussed nor was that the focus of the video although a little timing on the lamp burst can answer questions not asked.

Well I don't think the neon on the primary coil has much at all to do with the coupling, see the next video's and you will understand why.

@All
I need to break video #9 into a number of smaller vids so I can get them posted and change my layouts for the demo's, so don't think I have lost it when you see 9.0, 9.25, 9.5, 9.75 still saving that magic #10  :-\

There is a prior post by (allcanadian) that has said it very well indeed and really better than I have to date, look back a few and be sure to read it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 18, 2008, 07:08:57 PM
I took these snapshots across the capacitor in a circuit Im working with, wave 3 is a picture of what happens when things go right, the small wave is the "current" everyone else uses---- the big one is what I utilize indirectly----- the other "current" everyone ignores. Wave 2 is a picture of what happens when things go  wrong, which is usually what happens in my case. ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2008, 07:29:44 PM
I took these snapshots across the capacitor in a circuit Im working with, wave 3 is a picture of what happens when things go right, the small wave is the "current" everyone else uses---- the big one is what I utilize indirectly----- the other "current" everyone ignores. Wave 2 is a picture of what happens when things go  wrong, which is usually what happens in my case. ;D
Hummm... Surprised you see it on a scope??

Comments on your DC question; I have seen some of the wars when this question is asked. Like is varying DC really AC or is only AC real AC, what games we play. If a varying DC can induce a current in a transformer secondary in my mind it is AC. This business of AC having to pass through the magical or arbitrary (0) zero is wrong. What is zero but an arbitrary convience  for mathematics, but when is zero really zero? Another way to get the troops stirred up is to bring up the question of Negative Frequency. Seems reverse time is fine but reverse frequency is Duh!.

Good scope shots, yet are you sure that is what indeed you are using, I am not doubting you, just wondering out loud how you might be converting it to a scope observable form?

@All
I have posted the circuit used in video's #9x at the top of the /drivers.asp page. If my service provider will emerge from there so called maintenance period you may want to take a look.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2008, 07:38:33 PM
Slow day so the next video is up and running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA9tshUvD78
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Frederic2k1 on January 18, 2008, 07:52:03 PM
@ Doc

Is there a circuit diadram of the circuit in the last videos avaible on your website ?

I can alway only see the "building icon" when I go to www.drstiffler.com...

:(

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2008, 07:56:53 PM
@ Doc

Is there a circuit diadram of the circuit in the last videos avaible on your website ?

I can alway only see the "building icon" when I go to www.drstiffler.com...

:(



Go to www.stifflerscientific.com, the www.drstiffler.com is being redone for bio work only and will have nothing to do with the SEC project. Everything that was there is now moved to the SS site (which is in progress also), but you can get what you asked there. What you want is at www.stifflerscientific.com/drivers.asp (top od the page).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 18, 2008, 08:09:14 PM
@RStiffler
I read my post and realized how one sided it sounded, I don't suppose to understand much of this nor the greater implications, I am learning --- progressing and that is what is important.

Quote
Comments on your DC question; I have seen some of the wars when this question is asked. Like is varying DC really AC or is only AC real AC, what games we play. If a varying DC can induce a current in a transformer secondary in my mind it is AC. This business of AC having to pass through the magical or arbitrary (0) zero is wrong. What is zero but an arbitrary convience  for mathematics, but when is zero really zero? Another way to get the troops stirred up is to bring up the question of Negative Frequency. Seems reverse time is fine but reverse frequency is Duh!.

I am learning to see all that you speak of (AC-DC) as Tesla did, there is no AC/DC there is a disturbance in the media, this disturbance has different properties and qualities relative to it's period of oscillation and potential. It has different properties and qualities relative to the medium it may interact with, its resistance, inductance, density and geometry. AC and DC are "currents" one varies over time where the other would appear not to, I don't confuse the issue by saying they are different, I think we have confused the properties of interaction with qualities.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2008, 08:46:31 PM
@RStiffler
I read my post and realized how one sided it sounded, I don't suppose to understand much of this nor the greater implications, I am learning --- progressing and that is what is important.

Quote
Comments on your DC question; I have seen some of the wars when this question is asked. Like is varying DC really AC or is only AC real AC, what games we play. If a varying DC can induce a current in a transformer secondary in my mind it is AC. This business of AC having to pass through the magical or arbitrary (0) zero is wrong. What is zero but an arbitrary convience  for mathematics, but when is zero really zero? Another way to get the troops stirred up is to bring up the question of Negative Frequency. Seems reverse time is fine but reverse frequency is Duh!.

I am learning to see all that you speak of (AC-DC) as Tesla did, there is no AC/DC there is a disturbance in the media, this disturbance has different properties and qualities relative to it's period of oscillation and potential. It has different properties and qualities relative to the medium it may interact with, its resistance, inductance, density and geometry. AC and DC are "currents" one varies over time where the other would appear not to, I don't confuse the issue by saying they are different, I think we have confused the properties of interaction with qualities.
GOD! Stephan fix this site........................

This is the third time I have tried to answer a post and we go to LaLa LAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@allcanadian
Sorry I did not mean to imply anything, I think you are headed in the right direction. Could we talk off line??? THis site is getting bad for me, just can not get reliable contact.

Learning?? Hey is that not the name of the game, we learn our whole life, what just to die???

Hey Mr. c---101 love the fact you think my work is Dead dead dead, at least you have an audience on other threads  >:( Like I said some time ago, a Spade is a Spade!!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on January 19, 2008, 06:15:39 AM
@RStiffler, allcanadian

please don't go off-line to talk about this, the rest of us will not be able to read and participate then and it is a good discussion that goes beyond normal conventions and into the fluidic properties of the Aether.

Thanks !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on January 19, 2008, 06:31:19 AM
Comments on your DC question; I have seen some of the wars when this question is asked. Like is varying DC really AC or is only AC real AC, what games we play. If a varying DC can induce a current in a transformer secondary in my mind it is AC. This business of AC having to pass through the magical or arbitrary (0) zero is wrong. What is zero but an arbitrary convience  for mathematics, but when is zero really zero? Another way to get the troops stirred up is to bring up the question of Negative Frequency. Seems reverse time is fine but reverse frequency is Duh!.

I'd like to comment on this because I feel it is necessary to repeat over and over again for everyone (including and especially myself because I noticed lately I presume things too much) that readings we get on our meters are not real. In this case specifically the oscilloscope which flattens the 3rd (and maybe other) dimension(s) and totally destroys the meaning of wave's real propagation.

There must not be such thing as zero because the axis the "wave" passes through is imaginary (our fabrication). In actuality the wave does not cross any axes but spirals on and on and on in an endless vortex, in whichever direction signal is propagating (or omni-directional even).
And yet we choose to view that propagation from a side as a projection so that we can picture and measure the wave in a more conventional (to us) way, while at the same time losing the reality of the motion (and being fine with it, which is so terribly wrong :) ).

The above is constantly bugging me to the point that I'm at the brink of devoting time in developing a computer graphics solution to represent signals in real-time OpenGL 3D environment with free camera motion just so that the motion is more precisely described. God knows we have some really powerful and cheap graphics cards available to us nowadays that we just need the brainpower to get it done...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 19, 2008, 11:12:26 AM
@RStiffler
If we are to progress on this course I think we need to understand "what" we are dealing with and in this respect we need to hear it from someone who knows---- Tesla.

 
Quote
The study of such rapidly alternating currents is very interesting.  Nearly every experiment discloses something new.  Many results may, of course, be, predicted, but many more are unforeseen.  The experimenter makes many interesting observations.  For instance, we take a piece of iron and hold it against a magnet.  Starting from low alternations and running up higher and higher we feel the impulses succeed each other faster and faster, get weaker and weaker, and finally disappear.  We then observe a continuous pull; the pull, of course, is not continuous; it only appears so to us; our sense of touch is imperfect.
 We may next establish an arc between the electrodes and observe, as the alternations rise, that the note which accompanies alternating arcs gets shriller and shriller, gradually weakens, and finally ceases.  The air vibrations, of course, continue, but they are too weak to be perceived; our sense of hearing fails us.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 20, 2008, 12:30:04 AM
Just another video to check out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8X5T8D-B0
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on January 20, 2008, 03:29:28 AM
Just another video to check out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8X5T8D-B0
@RStiffler
Hmmm, things just continue to get more interesting !
Cheers from the Toad who Hops
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on January 20, 2008, 04:38:21 PM
Just another video to check out....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK8X5T8D-B0

Thanks doc,

it is clear now that you are not adding anything to the circuit with your body, but actually taking away. I withdraw my remark from couple of posts back about possible self-tuning through the body...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 20, 2008, 05:28:41 PM
Always wanting to make life simpler I am. Chuckle, Chuckle, really I just confuse people as some say.

Well we are getting a bit ore simple if you are watching the new and coming vids. You no longer need the 9T Primary and hey maybe you don't even want the core. Coming to the Drive In soon a XXX rated movie on a Stripped Down SEC. A preview is shown below.

View at you own risk, contains material you may not want to see.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on January 21, 2008, 02:04:26 AM
Almost looks like 90 degree coupling... humm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 21, 2008, 04:18:46 AM
Almost looks like 90 degree coupling... humm
The orientation is not critical, showing only slight variation when moved through 360'. Primary advantage is twofold; 1) the load does not reflect back into the driver. 2) multiple pickups can be used to separate loads without increased demand of the driver. Note also the pickup is screen, solid foil will not work. This may appear as straight capacitor coupling, although it is not. The small size as compared to the various coil configurations, yet additional gain obtained, removes capacity as a primary consideration. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on January 21, 2008, 04:26:29 AM
I am not sure what we are looking at here. Is this the shielding from some cable that's been stripped off or is it a flat mesh? A photo taken at an angle could help... ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 21, 2008, 01:42:51 PM
I am not sure what we are looking at here. Is this the shielding from some cable that's been stripped off or is it a flat mesh? A photo taken at an angle could help... ;)
I will get the specs on the web site after the vid, but it is copper screen ~1/2" dia. and the same length as the ferrite core. Sorry I can not be exact, I'm not at the lab. Hope to get vid up today, that should hlp.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on January 21, 2008, 05:48:19 PM
Quote
The orientation is not critical, showing only slight variation when moved through 360'. Primary advantage is twofold; 1) the load does not reflect back into the driver. 2) multiple pickups can be used to separate loads without increased demand of the driver.
This is great Dr.Stiffler.

So multiple loads does not affect the driver, impressive. So you say it is not capacitance because with the approach of your body it does not add to the output but reduces it, right? The opposite of other RF circuits.

Do you have the theory behind all this planned out? When can we read it?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 21, 2008, 08:20:00 PM
Quote
The orientation is not critical, showing only slight variation when moved through 360'. Primary advantage is twofold; 1) the load does not reflect back into the driver. 2) multiple pickups can be used to separate loads without increased demand of the driver.
This is great Dr.Stiffler.

So multiple loads does not affect the driver, impressive. So you say it is not capacitance because with the approach of your body it does not add to the output but reduces it, right? The opposite of other RF circuits.

Do you have the theory behind all this planned out? When can we read it?

Fausto.
Let me be a little clearer on the statement of capacitive coupling.

It is not capacitive coupling back to the 'SEC Exciter (see end of message) that powers the load as many peers insist. Yet it is capacitive coupling to the 'Spatial Energy Nodes' that is supplying the amplification. Two totally different things. The 'SEC Exciter will consume the same power if there is or is not a load, or many loads. The closest thing I can think of to compare this to is a normal radio transmitter. The radio transmitter will output X power. This transmitter is unaware of someone turning on their radio and tuning to the frequency of the transmitter, the transmitter does not adjust its power level up or down depending on how many radios are tuned to its frequency. The big difference here is that that transmitter is the 'Spatial Medium', not the 'SEC Exciter'.

The 'SEC Exciter' is used only for excitation of 'Spatial Nodes' which in turn allows any 'Open' properly configured circuit to 'Cohere'  the energy flow released by the node during the excitation period.

There is of course a limitation, what is called 'Spatial Zone Limit'. The 'SEC Exciter' only opens or excites nodes within a finite area and the amount of energy available is from this finite area, it is not an unlimited supply. By unlimited I imply it is not possible to power a house for example from a few centimeters of excitation. Yet the amount of energy available it very significant. To obtain kw of energy you will need many 'SEC Exciters', this is my current belief. I have not explored very large, high power exciters. In fact this may not work in the large scale, this is up to further research.

As far as a paper, time will tell. I would of course like to publish in a peer review, yet that appears to be totally impossible for 'Fringe Science'. A forth coming paper may only be available from me when I feel it time to release one. I would so like some one else to do a duplication. Of six people that stated to me they had achieved amplification, only one and myself remain. Strange indeed that five people were fooled and then realized a mistake.

**'SEC Exciter' is the term to be used for the circuit that is the controlling circuit foe SEC interface. Oscillator and Driver do not have significant meaning now that my Hypothesis has progress to the current point.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 22, 2008, 12:54:19 AM
Moved to tesla technology/the tesla project
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 22, 2008, 06:33:54 PM
same as above
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 22, 2008, 09:28:33 PM
Hi Allcanadian,
could you please post yourcircuit diagram,
where you get these scope shots from ?

@Doc Stiffler,
very exciting your new findings with the mesh coil.
Looking forward to see your upcoming videos.
Am too busy myself with other work right now to experiment right now
but will soon continue too.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 22, 2008, 10:31:25 PM
@hartiberlin
I could never build a circuit this efficient, it is teslas patent 568177 , I made video of my oscilloscope then took snapshots of it using ms movie maker 2. The oscilloscope connections are outlined in my first post with the pictures. Pics 1 and 2 use the (+) probe from the scope first on (-) side of cap then (+). Pic 3 uses both oscilloscope leads across the cap.

Im going to move all my posts to the tesla catagory tonight, It is very relevant to Dr.Stifflers work but it has become too obtrusive in his thread I think.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 22, 2008, 10:56:31 PM
@allcanadian
Did you already post a video ?
Where ?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 22, 2008, 11:48:54 PM
@hartiberlin
Quote
@allcanadian
Did you already post a video ?
Where ?
No, I was using video so I could see a single pulse in action, then I captured a single frame from the video and converted it to a jpeg photo. Have you ever tried to get a single 200 microsecond scope shot with a digital camera? ;D One try and I knew there was no way in hell that was going to work.

I just moved the latest scopeshots and text to Tesla Technology/ The Tesla Project. I hope to do a long term study with a hands on approach --- meaning lot's of pictures and discussion. I think Dr.Stiffler has exactly the right approach---- no more speculation and wild theories----- lets test the damn thing and see what happens and discuss it in a rational manner, and your forum is the perfect place to do it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 23, 2008, 09:17:11 PM
Another video from the factory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUekYUWQQYU
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 24, 2008, 01:11:22 AM
Great new video Doc,
but is there any advantage without the ferrite cores ?
I thought the power amplification comes from the cores ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on January 24, 2008, 03:08:03 AM
Dr Stiffler,
This is an awesome circuit with really interesting characteristics. Holy crap! Yes I finally plugged in a soundcard and listened to the dialog along with the videos. Killer stuff, I'm quite impressed! I know some EE's that will probably be seriously bothered by this. Now they won't be able to sleep either......Ha Ha Ha Ha hA Ah aH ahhhh! Sorry! You know I'm going to spend some money on parts. You're really from Jameco aren't you!!!!???? Nice deal. Will post results when I get them, I mean the wife to give me some of the money I make working......Honey! Where is my catalog?.... ;D 8) 8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on January 24, 2008, 03:43:41 AM
Hey doc,

thanks for the new video, I got some questions about it (duh, obviously).

Does it matter where you connect the collector to the screen? In the video it's connected in the middle, but will it matter if it was on the side or off the center? I remember with the antenna coils when I was testing various locations of the 9 wind primary, its position matter in relation to performance of the setup.

You mention in the video a feedback to the power supply that occurs at the moment of discharge of the capacitor. If you have replaced the power supply with let's say a gel battery or a lead-acid one, would the batter be receiving a charging each time the capacitor discharges, basically keeping the battery alive for a prolonged period than normal?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 24, 2008, 04:08:36 AM
Hey doc,

thanks for the new video, I got some questions about it (duh, obviously).

Does it matter where you connect the collector to the screen? In the video it's connected in the middle, but will it matter if it was on the side or off the center? I remember with the antenna coils when I was testing various locations of the 9 wind primary, its position matter in relation to performance of the setup.

You mention in the video a feedback to the power supply that occurs at the moment of discharge of the capacitor. If you have replaced the power supply with let's say a gel battery or a lead-acid one, would the batter be receiving a charging each time the capacitor discharges, basically keeping the battery alive for a prolonged period than normal?
Makes no difference where you connect the collector wire.

Batteries are strange animals and tend to fool an lead me astray often, yet, yes a pulse will go back as charge into the battery. But the majority of charge goes into the power cap., it will not keep the battery charged, yet will ofset some of the small current used.

I will upload a diagram 'here' tomorrow, seems can not upload a tif and I am on a UMPC  that only does tifs.

Note, one end of coil is connected to circuit ground and the other to the AV plug.

Dr Stiffler,
This is an awesome circuit with really interesting characteristics. Holy crap! Yes I finally plugged in a soundcard and listened to the dialog along with the videos. Killer stuff, I'm quite impressed! I know some EE's that will probably be seriously bothered by this. Now they won't be able to sleep either......Ha Ha Ha Ha hA Ah aH ahhhh! Sorry! You know I'm going to spend some money on parts. You're really from Jameco aren't you!!!!???? Nice deal. Will post results when I get them, I mean the wife to give me some of the money I make working......Honey! Where is my catalog?.... ;D 8) 8)
Could not cut a deal with a supplier, seems I don't use enough parts in my circuits to make it worth there time.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on January 24, 2008, 09:55:04 AM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,
thank you for the latest video.
edit: I deleted some questions which were based on my wrong understanding of the circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 24, 2008, 10:54:18 AM


I will upload a diagram 'here' tomorrow, seems can not upload a tif and I am on a UMPC  that only does tifs.


Hi Doc,
I enabled now TIF upload.

Please let us know, why you can use this now
without the ferrite cores.

Does it even run better with the ferrite cores or more bad ?

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 24, 2008, 05:00:16 PM
I'll try ONE more time to get the site to take my post, it goes to NEVER LAND...... BUMMER

Here is the circuit diagram of the circuit in SEC video 9.75. Working on the web site to try to get it closer to where I am at this time, although doubt I can get to this point.



I will upload a diagram 'here' tomorrow, seems can not upload a tif and I am on a UMPC  that only does tifs.


Hi Doc,
I enabled now TIF upload.

Please let us know, why you can use this now
without the ferrite cores.

Does it even run better with the ferrite cores or more bad ?

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

@Stefan
Thanks for allowing tif's, I now work a lot with the Samsung UMPC when not close to the main network.

The core issue has been addressed already both in this thread and on my site, but here it is again. This research started from ECAT or Energy Conversion by Articulated Transfer, a paper by me on how to access the aether (if you will) and obtain new untapped energy and convert it to a conventional electron flow. ECAT evolved into SEC or Spatial Energy Coherence, not much difference in what it all means, except that the SEC Hypothesis supports the concept of 'Energy Nodes' within a 'Universal Energy Lattice' that can under the correct conditions be tapped and new energy extracted into a useful form.

During the early years of ECAT various forms and configurations were used to explore tapping this universal (Spatial) energy lattice (Nodes). This ranged from 'Polyphased' coil configurations 'See my site' to work with Xenon Plasma. During this work the AV Plug was added at which point the whole direction took a new path. Until now it was not understood why the Plug seemed in certain circuits to produce small excess energies. It is now known that it is a function of the junction capacity of the diodes (explained in a paper someday). When the research continued with coils it just so happened that the 'Antenna' coil was used in a few tests. This resulted in some very interesting results that could not be explained by the AV Plug diodes alone. This took me down the road to thinking the core and a composition of BaFe may be what was producing the result.

Again only after hundreds of additional hours of working with the circuits was it determined that the core was not the reason, it was indeed again a condition of capacity to the 'Spatial Lattice' that was allowing the coupling and excess energy. Research continued to where I am today, finding that it can indeed be done in a much simpler and effective way (without the core) and using a 'Parasitic Grid' around the power coil. This was two fold, it removed 90% of the loading on the 'Exciter' and it dropped the AV Plug output impedance from around 10Meg ohm to ~20K ohm.

Hope this helps you understand. Someday when I can stop the research which still sees almost daily improvement, Papers will be produced and available, yet this will not happen until I can call SEC a Theory.

Keep checking the Stiffler Scientific  web site for information. There is 'No Way' I can post it here. I only try to keep you all current by theses postings.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 24, 2008, 06:57:13 PM
Hi Ron,
are the scopeshot in your 9.75 video from the pickup coil alone ?

Why does the amplitude get bigger, when the
AV plug cap is almost charged up fully ?
Does it then radiate more into the pickup coil ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on January 24, 2008, 07:12:58 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 24, 2008, 07:41:27 PM
I find the growing waveform shown in the video very interesting.

Why is that happening?   Could the gain on the Scope meter be defective?  It almost looks like it since the waveform looks the same and doesn't change shape, but we see a scaling of it with time.

EM
The scope is not defective. This same waveform can be observed on another Tek and a Fluke.

The wave form (except for the collector pulse (the inverted pulse)) does indeed change, the frequency between the collector pulse changes by a factor of 4, that is seen from the beginning. I would like to answer with more meaning yet why do you say it is staying the same?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Schpankme on January 24, 2008, 09:11:19 PM
... it was indeed again a condition of capacity to the 'Spatial Lattice' that was allowing the coupling and excess energy.

Dr Stiffler,

Could you please elaborate further regarding your comment about "condition of capacity".  Would this condition relate to the electric charge first entering the circuit?

Thank you,

- Schpankme
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 24, 2008, 10:28:14 PM
... it was indeed again a condition of capacity to the 'Spatial Lattice' that was allowing the coupling and excess energy.

Dr Stiffler,

Could you please elaborate further regarding your comment about "condition of capacity".  Would this condition relate to the electric charge first entering the circuit?

Thank you,

- Schpankme
You can not, wait let me clear that up, I can not access the 'Spatial Lattice' other than by the coupling being of a capacitive nature. I have never achieved (to my knowledge) coupling via coils, resistors, transistor or diodes   alone. The exception is of course the conditions under which the capacity of the diodes in an AV Plug present an interface.

A good example is the last circuit and video (9.75), the capacity from the copper screen measured to the inner coil is ~ 7.7pF. So as some say the VHF (HF) from the 'Exciter' (collector) is being capacitive coupled to the AV Plug and doing the charging of the power cap. I would challenge anyone to build the circuit and replace the screen and the coil with a 7.7pF cap and get the circuit to charge the power capacitor. A close look at the circuit will explain the difference here, one needs to explain how the coil which has one end grounded is forming a capacitor with the screen that is charging the power cap. I would very much like to see how some one would draw this in conventional symbols and get it to work in a conventional simulations program.

The capacitive coupling I am referring to is the coupling to the 'Spatial Lattice' that is taking place between the screen and lattice and the resulting inflow being converted by the coil in a conventional inductive way. Once energy enters 3space it appears and is the same as the normal EMF we all work with.

Did this help?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Schpankme on January 25, 2008, 02:07:48 AM
... The capacitive coupling I am referring to is the coupling to the 'Spatial Lattice' that is taking place between the screen and lattice and the resulting inflow being converted by the coil in a conventional inductive way. Once energy enters 3space it appears and is the same as the normal EMF we all work with.  Did this help?

Dr Stiffler,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question; the uniform distribution of the charge has always puzzled me.

Best regards,

- Schpankme
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on January 25, 2008, 04:37:08 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: emitremmah on January 25, 2008, 02:10:00 PM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,
Understand I know little about what is going on and have only a very rudimentary understanding of electricity, so please feel free to tell me to not bother with commenting if that is appropriate. I will not take offence.

Regarding the scope shot which indicates a rise in _?

If this is happening before the capacitor fully charges is the capacitor exhibiting a variable resistance.
I see it like the electrons are water and the capacitor is a balloon. The fuller the balloon gets the harder the water need to flow to enter it until the balloon empties then the flow is easy again. Could this be what is i the scope shot. A type of build up of electrons that can't make it into the capacitor as easily creating more electrical 'pressure' until the cap finally discharges?

Thank you,
Bernard

edit: This would also mean that the wire to the capacitor was become a capacitor of sorts also?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 25, 2008, 03:16:33 PM
Food for thought, strictly Hypothetical.....

Many years back Dr. Harold Aspden published a paper on obtaining energy with cylindrical capacitors, resonant circuit and a high voltage for initial excitation; a starting point with the current idea is http://www.aspden.org.uk/3.html

Take a look at both his very first circuit (without the multiple ring capacitor) and the current circuit, it takes little in imagination to wonder what would happen if one were to drive such a circuit with an AV Plug. Better yet forget AC as in SEC and drive it with DC into an impedance followed by a AV Plug set of diodes and the capture circuit.

Am I the only one that sees something similar?

Time to pull out the hundreds of dollars of copper cylinders and take a quick look, maybe.

Anyone wish to comment that may have followed this???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on January 25, 2008, 03:20:56 PM
A good example is the last circuit and video (9.75), the capacity from the copper screen measured to the inner coil is ~ 7.7pF. So as some say the VHF (HF) from the 'Exciter' (collector) is being capacitive coupled to the AV Plug and doing the charging of the power cap. I would challenge anyone to build the circuit and replace the screen and the coil with a 7.7pF cap and get the circuit to charge the power capacitor. A close look at the circuit will explain the difference here, one needs to explain how the coil which has one end grounded is forming a capacitor with the screen that is charging the power cap. I would very much like to see how some one would draw this in conventional symbols and get it to work in a conventional simulations program.

We need a distributed computing platform for finite-element electro-dynamic simulations !

Another way would be to use a standard network analyzer. hehe.

rgds.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 25, 2008, 03:58:44 PM
A good example is the last circuit and video (9.75), the capacity from the copper screen measured to the inner coil is ~ 7.7pF. So as some say the VHF (HF) from the 'Exciter' (collector) is being capacitive coupled to the AV Plug and doing the charging of the power cap. I would challenge anyone to build the circuit and replace the screen and the coil with a 7.7pF cap and get the circuit to charge the power capacitor. A close look at the circuit will explain the difference here, one needs to explain how the coil which has one end grounded is forming a capacitor with the screen that is charging the power cap. I would very much like to see how some one would draw this in conventional symbols and get it to work in a conventional simulations program.

We need a distributed computing platform for finite-element electro-dynamic simulations !

Another way would be to use a standard network analyzer. hehe.

rgds.



@Fritz

Fritz, are you bored?

From a person that appears to be very intelligent you are also a master at the art of interjection...

An ejaculatory utterance seems senseless here, so give the followers real hard data. If you can put my work to bed, get to it...... Otherwise please get a good book to utilize your time.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on January 25, 2008, 05:04:45 PM
A good example is the last circuit and video (9.75), the capacity from the copper screen measured to the inner coil is ~ 7.7pF. So as some say the VHF (HF) from the 'Exciter' (collector) is being capacitive coupled to the AV Plug and doing the charging of the power cap. I would challenge anyone to build the circuit and replace the screen and the coil with a 7.7pF cap and get the circuit to charge the power capacitor. A close look at the circuit will explain the difference here, one needs to explain how the coil which has one end grounded is forming a capacitor with the screen that is charging the power cap. I would very much like to see how some one would draw this in conventional symbols and get it to work in a conventional simulations program.

We need a distributed computing platform for finite-element electro-dynamic simulations !

Another way would be to use a standard network analyzer. hehe.

rgds.



@Fritz

Fritz, are you bored?

From a person that appears to be very intelligent you are also a master at the art of interjection...

An ejaculatory utterance seems senseless here, so give the followers real hard data. If you can put my work to bed, get to it...... Otherwise please get a good book to utilize your time.

Yes, Im bored.
Thanks for the good advice.
BTW: I like your setups; pretty inspiring.

PS: We need a new schematic symbol for the 90degree coil/shielding device.
Can implement that in the new analogue simulator "dr-stice". ;-)));
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 25, 2008, 08:07:56 PM
If anyone gets bored a great party trick would be to melt your Neons.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on January 26, 2008, 01:25:26 AM
Food for thought, strictly Hypothetical.....

Many years back Dr. Harold Aspden published a paper on obtaining energy with cylindrical capacitors, resonant circuit and a high voltage for initial excitation; a starting point with the current idea is http://www.aspden.org.uk/3.html

Take a look at both his very first circuit (without the multiple ring capacitor) and the current circuit, it takes little in imagination to wonder what would happen if one were to drive such a circuit with an AV Plug. Better yet forget AC as in SEC and drive it with DC into an impedance followed by a AV Plug set of diodes and the capture circuit.

Am I the only one that sees something similar?

Time to pull out the hundreds of dollars of copper cylinders and take a quick look, maybe.

Anyone wish to comment that may have followed this???

I have followed since I discovered it a few years ago, tried it DC, no joy, BUT AC as you are doing in a 1/2 wave model with the plug taking out the energy is interesting theory!  I would suggest that Copper cylinders are probably not absolutely necessary for the device to work.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on January 26, 2008, 02:18:46 AM
Dr Stiffler,
I quote Harold Aspden;
Harold Aspden, 26th June 2007
"However, if that electron flow pulsates and there are connections to draw electron current from that central electrode then the pulsation implies a recurring sequence of charge and discharge. That 'magic capacitor' function is then harnessed."
Are you showing us a possible example of Harold's above reference given that the diodes are also capacitors? Diodes are highly nonlinear correct? Hmmmmm? I've seen some strange things in radio front ends with pin diodes. Never looked much further than restoring the circuit to design specifications though. Shame on me. Fundamentally your circuits and Aspdens' examples are very similar, aside from the fact that you are energizing open inductors, which certainly raises eyebrows even to the uninitiated, but is a relatively common practice in radio and then a complete diode loop containing the load LED's which just leaves folks with a blank stare and comment. " If that works, I want to see it!" Unfortunately for me I'm not quite sure how to write all of my loop equations for some of the circuit :) :) ? The similarities in fig's 1 and 2 of lecture #27 to the present circuits are noted and I will have to study them in depth as time permits.
Am I any where near on target or completely nuts????? The EE's I spoke of are waiting for me to demo this to them, just like I said. Parts on order payday ;D ;D ;D Neat stuff!

Nice Work Doc...................Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on January 26, 2008, 11:12:42 AM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,
in a previous post I had posted some questions, but did only now realize, that I had not understood the circuit layout presented in video 9.75.
I had thought the SEC Exciter is connected to the coil and the copper screen cylinder acts as a energy pickup/converter of the secondary, i.e. as pickup for the "AV branch".
I do now realize that it is in fact the other way round:

The copper screen cylinder is part of the The SEC Exciter and the antenna coil acts as a pickup, seemingly reacting to  electrostatic/capacitive disturbance in space, "transforming" this disturbance to a current flow in the secondary (i.e. AV-plug).

I hope I got this right.

It would be interesting to know, whether it is possible to place an additional antenna coil (with a larger core-diameter) around the outside of the copper screen cylinder.
I envisage an arrangement, where the copper screen cylinder is sandwiched between two coaxial coils, i.e sandwiched between the inner coil (which you have already in place) and an outer one (which would have to be added).

I wonder whether it would be possible, to successfully attach secondary circuitry including a load to such an additional pickup, without causing dampening of the effect on the first.
Maybe by discharging both pickups simultaneously !?

However, in the meantime you seemingly found a more efficient way to "melt your neons".
Without the Sidac !?
Congratulations.
How did you do it?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 26, 2008, 01:53:12 PM
Dr Stiffler,
I quote Harold Aspden;
Harold Aspden, 26th June 2007
"However, if that electron flow pulsates and there are connections to draw electron current from that central electrode then the pulsation implies a recurring sequence of charge and discharge. That 'magic capacitor' function is then harnessed."
Are you showing us a possible example of Harold's above reference given that the diodes are also capacitors? Diodes are highly nonlinear correct? Hmmmmm? I've seen some strange things in radio front ends with pin diodes. Never looked much further than restoring the circuit to design specifications though. Shame on me. Fundamentally your circuits and Aspdens' examples are very similar, aside from the fact that you are energizing open inductors, which certainly raises eyebrows even to the uninitiated, but is a relatively common practice in radio and then a complete diode loop containing the load LED's which just leaves folks with a blank stare and comment. " If that works, I want to see it!" Unfortunately for me I'm not quite sure how to write all of my loop equations for some of the circuit :) :) ? The similarities in fig's 1 and 2 of lecture #27 to the present circuits are noted and I will have to study them in depth as time permits.
Am I any where near on target or completely nuts????? The EE's I spoke of are waiting for me to demo this to them, just like I said. Parts on order payday ;D ;D ;D Neat stuff!

Nice Work Doc...................Jim
My work was/is not intended to be what Dr. Aspden wrote about, but I have followed him  for some years and did set out to try his capacitor idea and did order a couple hundred dollars worth of copper to do it. About the time I was setting up he published a paper that the two plate idea 'did not' work. (can no longer find that paper) if I remember right he said that it would require over 100kv to work and that was not practical. Then the multi plate version appeared. If my work is in some subliminal way what he is talking about of course is open to discussion.

The latest circuit is what will be submitted to an independent lab for testing. Have been putting this off until I was happy and feltfor sure results would be positive.

Please build and show it off, will get good an many bad reactions as you can tell from this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 26, 2008, 02:03:01 PM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,
in a previous post I had posted some questions, but did only now realize, that I had not understood the circuit layout presented in video 9.75.
I had thought the SEC Exciter is connected to the coil and the copper screen cylinder acts as a energy pickup/converter of the secondary, i.e. as pickup for the "AV branch".
I do now realize that it is in fact the other way round:

The copper screen cylinder is part of the The SEC Exciter and the antenna coil acts as a pickup, seemingly reacting to  electrostatic/capacitive disturbance in space, "transforming" this disturbance to a current flow in the secondary (i.e. AV-plug).

I hope I got this right.

It would be interesting to know, whether it is possible to place an additional antenna coil (with a larger core-diameter) around the outside of the copper screen cylinder.
I envisage an arrangement, where the copper screen cylinder is sandwiched between two coaxial coils, i.e sandwiched between the inner coil (which you have already in place) and an outer one (which would have to be added).

I wonder whether it would be possible, to successfully attach secondary circuitry including a load to such an additional pickup, without causing dampening of the effect on the first.
Maybe by discharging both pickups simultaneously !?

However, in the meantime you seemingly found a more efficient way to "melt your neons".
Without the Sidac !?
Congratulations.
How did you do it?
Sorry for not answering your first.

Yes! You are 100% right. (electrostatic/capacity) and yes spatial interaction between the coil and the copper frame.

I have not tried your idea of multiple coils, it is a logical thing to try, yet I have not tried it. Was hoping some one that has coils and did the LED circuit might try.

Of all that have posted on what is going on (no offense to anyone) you are the closest.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on January 26, 2008, 03:41:43 PM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,
in a previous post I had posted some questions, but did only now realize, that I had not understood the circuit layout presented in video 9.75.
I had thought the SEC Exciter is connected to the coil and the copper screen cylinder acts as a energy pickup/converter of the secondary, i.e. as pickup for the "AV branch".
I do now realize that it is in fact the other way round:

The copper screen cylinder is part of the The SEC Exciter and the antenna coil acts as a pickup, seemingly reacting to  electrostatic/capacitive disturbance in space, "transforming" this disturbance to a current flow in the secondary (i.e. AV-plug).

I hope I got this right.

It would be interesting to know, whether it is possible to place an additional antenna coil (with a larger core-diameter) around the outside of the copper screen cylinder.
I envisage an arrangement, where the copper screen cylinder is sandwiched between two coaxial coils, i.e sandwiched between the inner coil (which you have already in place) and an outer one (which would have to be added).

I wonder whether it would be possible, to successfully attach secondary circuitry including a load to such an additional pickup, without causing dampening of the effect on the first.
Maybe by discharging both pickups simultaneously !?

However, in the meantime you seemingly found a more efficient way to "melt your neons".
Without the Sidac !?
Congratulations.
How did you do it?
Sorry for not answering your first.

Yes! You are 100% right. (electrostatic/capacity) and yes spatial interaction between the coil and the copper frame.

I have not tried your idea of multiple coils, it is a logical thing to try, yet I have not tried it. Was hoping some one that has coils and did the LED circuit might try.

Of all that have posted on what is going on (no offense to anyone) you are the closest.

Good Morning Dr. Stiffler,

Have you measured the current/voltage in the latest AV PLUG and Neon? As there is no pulsing, everything seems to be static so should be very easy to come up with the numbers.   Why not a sandwich of shield/coil/shield/coil/shield, etc?  I have a very busy day of "Not" fun stuff here but will try to do same thing with shield/coil driven by sig generator as for up to now, I simply can not get your circuit to Osc. (missing something) Too many irons in the fire.

Interesting your description of electrostatic waves in device, rapid rise time of pulse, longitudinal wave (theory) emitted via partial shield, collecton of wave and spatial interaction in coil.(is the coil needed as no longer resonant without core? or another shield type collector would do the same thing with enough area?)........the common thread in many FE devices!

Most interesting to see how this device changes with increased knowledge!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 26, 2008, 04:01:29 PM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,
in a previous post I had posted some questions, but did only now realize, that I had not understood the circuit layout presented in video 9.75.
I had thought the SEC Exciter is connected to the coil and the copper screen cylinder acts as a energy pickup/converter of the secondary, i.e. as pickup for the "AV branch".
I do now realize that it is in fact the other way round:

The copper screen cylinder is part of the The SEC Exciter and the antenna coil acts as a pickup, seemingly reacting to  electrostatic/capacitive disturbance in space, "transforming" this disturbance to a current flow in the secondary (i.e. AV-plug).

I hope I got this right.

It would be interesting to know, whether it is possible to place an additional antenna coil (with a larger core-diameter) around the outside of the copper screen cylinder.
I envisage an arrangement, where the copper screen cylinder is sandwiched between two coaxial coils, i.e sandwiched between the inner coil (which you have already in place) and an outer one (which would have to be added).

I wonder whether it would be possible, to successfully attach secondary circuitry including a load to such an additional pickup, without causing dampening of the effect on the first.
Maybe by discharging both pickups simultaneously !?

However, in the meantime you seemingly found a more efficient way to "melt your neons".
Without the Sidac !?
Congratulations.
How did you do it?
Sorry for not answering your first.

Yes! You are 100% right. (electrostatic/capacity) and yes spatial interaction between the coil and the copper frame.

I have not tried your idea of multiple coils, it is a logical thing to try, yet I have not tried it. Was hoping some one that has coils and did the LED circuit might try.

Of all that have posted on what is going on (no offense to anyone) you are the closest.

Good Morning Dr. Stiffler,

Have you measured the current/voltage in the latest AV PLUG and Neon? As there is no pulsing, everything seems to be static so should be very easy to come up with the numbers.   Why not a sandwich of shield/coil/shield/coil/shield, etc?  I have a very busy day of "Not" fun stuff here but will try to do same thing with shield/coil driven by sig generator as for up to now, I simply can not get your circuit to Osc. (missing something) Too many irons in the fire.

Interesting your description of electrostatic waves in device, rapid rise time of pulse, longitudinal wave (theory) emitted via partial shield, collecton of wave and spatial interaction in coil.(is the coil needed as no longer resonant without core? or another shield type collector would do the same thing with enough area?)........the common thread in many FE devices!

Most interesting to see how this device changes with increased knowledge!

Ben
@Ben

WOW! so many questions at once, I'm a simple man... :-)

I am sure you are trying to run the 'Exciter' as I have posted so I think you would have the right components, yet the 400pF and coil in the base is the critical factor. if I remember right, did not 'Spokane2' get it to work some time back? Any way the spec's are in the diagram here and on the web site. This coil does not couple back from the output in any way (small of course) but it is not a coupled feedback circuit. With the MPSA06 and the proper base configuration C & L it for sure should run, if you have the adjustment range I show. It will operated at many different freq's but one and only one will draw the least current and will produce the greatest output. As can be seen in the video and stills, very simple circuit.

Driving with a signal generator, doubt it will work....

Yes many have suggest different coil arrangements and I have yet to try any from what is shown. Putting this on circuit board to be shipped out for testing (Heat Output), hope to have it to the lab by mid next month and then its up to them and their time when it could be tested. The lab that I hope will test it must for the time being remain confidential, don't want to get anyone reputable receiving flack. Anyway that is the plan.

I have stated in many places that the best and most simple way to 'Tune' one of these circuits is to start with just the plug diodes and a Neon. Forget current at the start, just tune until you have max brightness on the Neon or it melts :-), again there will be only 'ONE' freq where this will happen, even though a scope and sense coil will show oscillation and many times the difference can not be determined on the scope from the correct or incorrect spot.

I have ordered a Spectrum Analyzer (in fact StifflerScientific may sell them), two models one to 550Mhz and the other to 1.05GHz, nice units and very attractive price. More on that later.

For now keep at that osc, why does it not work for you??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on January 26, 2008, 06:52:02 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Got Osc. working, variable coil was way too high, max of 37uh, now about 8-1uh, had to take some turns off, collector RFC was wrong............sheesssss.....can't trust my eyes anymore......

I get about a 120V peak pulse on collector........got to find some screen material for primary of SEC coupling device.....Think I have some in storage.  How 'Peaky" is this system with the screen/coil output setup and in your case, what frequency is the basic pulse rate?  Darn, more questions.  Put me down for one of your boards/kits.

Later
Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 26, 2008, 08:19:21 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Got Osc. working, variable coil was way too high, max of 37uh, now about 8-1uh, had to take some turns off, collector RFC was wrong............sheesssss.....can't trust my eyes anymore......

I get about a 120V peak pulse on collector........got to find some screen material for primary of SEC coupling device.....Think I have some in storage.  How 'Peaky" is this system with the screen/coil output setup and in your case, what frequency is the basic pulse rate?  Darn, more questions.  Put me down for one of your boards/kits.

Later
Ben
@Ben

Hate to tell all, but I purchase most of my Brass, Copper and Aluminum Rod, Copper Sheet and Al and Cu Screen from a Crafts store. The foil is used for embossing and I really don't know what they use the screen for, but the price is right when compared to a required volume and shipping purchase else where. Check the local craft store before a Home Improvement Outlet.

Also a sign of on some of the fraud going on out there, purchased a number of bags of what were called Copper Scouring  Pads used by wives to help in the kitchen, could get what I wanted but was short two bags and had to buy a name brand at about a 30% higher price. When returned to the lab, the cheaper pads were found to be attracted by a magnet, Duh! The name brand was not. Guess what, the China Brand was copper over iron, great world. Be sure even at the craft store that it is 100% Cu.

Now for frequency and how to look at it, use a sense coil, see the following pictures.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 28, 2008, 04:52:11 AM
Output improving with new coil setup.

Bulb is not full brightness, but it is constant, no sidac, no capacitor needed.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on January 28, 2008, 04:53:25 AM
*removed* EM

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on January 28, 2008, 11:45:41 AM
Dr. Stiffler,
I did not intend any implication that your work was/is Aspdens work. I see the differences and similarities. No offence intended or taken.....hopefully.
 
Some questions if I may:

1. Have you posted construction details of your Colpitts Oscillator? Specifically design requirements like Q and the details of the tunable inductance in the base ckt? I notice that you use this circuit in most of the videos when not driving/exciting with an RF genny. Is a collector circuit 22uH choke wound on toroid core suitable? In other words do I need to design a Colpitts Oscillator and if so I would obviously like it to cover the characteristics or be as close to the design you are using? Please just point me in the correct direction and I will study or design as appropriate.

2. The cotton braided litz from the antenna is also fairly consistent in your designs. The cores are not. Excitation of the secondary may change but the geometric orientation seems not to. The Secondary winding of litz wire inside the exciter seems to be common. Skin effect and capacitance?? Reduction or elimination of the primary excitation components induction by moving to the Screen? Is that a copper pipe in the last posting? In your mind/experience is this arrangement and relationship between the excitation element and the excited element necessary. I know, I know, build the damned circuit and find out. I am while I also search through 50 boxes of accumulated components for usable goodies.

Now I'm going to be roaming about with a friggin neon bulb "seeing" what I was not "seeing" before in radios and the embedded systems I work with. It will be fascinating to roam about a locomotive electrical cabinet, carefully I might add, with a neon  ;) 

Keep up the good work....at least our creative minds are stimulated.........This is like spinning the bicycle wheel, (AV plug), hit it in the right direction and zoom, hit it in the wrong direction and  :(. Very interesting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on January 28, 2008, 07:17:08 PM
Output improving with new coil setup.

Bulb is not full brightness, but it is constant, no sidac, no capacitor needed.



Dr. Stiffler

What is the DC current draw of the oscillator whilst lighting the bulb please?

Hoppy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 28, 2008, 09:30:20 PM
Dr. Stiffler,
I did not intend any implication that your work was/is Aspdens work. I see the differences and similarities. No offence intended or taken.....hopefully.
 
Some questions if I may:

1. Have you posted construction details of your Colpitts Oscillator? Specifically design requirements like Q and the details of the tunable inductance in the base ckt? I notice that you use this circuit in most of the videos when not driving/exciting with an RF genny. Is a collector circuit 22uH choke wound on toroid core suitable? In other words do I need to design a Colpitts Oscillator and if so I would obviously like it to cover the characteristics or be as close to the design you are using? Please just point me in the correct direction and I will study or design as appropriate.

2. The cotton braided litz from the antenna is also fairly consistent in your designs. The cores are not. Excitation of the secondary may change but the geometric orientation seems not to. The Secondary winding of litz wire inside the exciter seems to be common. Skin effect and capacitance?? Reduction or elimination of the primary excitation components induction by moving to the Screen? Is that a copper pipe in the last posting? In your mind/experience is this arrangement and relationship between the excitation element and the excited element necessary. I know, I know, build the damned circuit and find out. I am while I also search through 50 boxes of accumulated components for usable goodies.

Now I'm going to be roaming about with a friggin neon bulb "seeing" what I was not "seeing" before in radios and the embedded systems I work with. It will be fascinating to roam about a locomotive electrical cabinet, carefully I might add, with a neon  ;) 

Keep up the good work....at least our creative minds are stimulated.........This is like spinning the bicycle wheel, (AV plug), hit it in the right direction and zoom, hit it in the wrong direction and  :(. Very interesting.

I did not in any way see anything you said as offensive towards me, and I do want to know, because I asked and am not sure in my mind that what I am doing is not in fact and implementation of Dr. Aspdens idea. If so I'm sure he is happy someone has worked towards that goal and if so, I do want to insure he would receive credit for the work. That said, I really feel that many minds come up with similar ideas at one time or another. As Dr. Aspden express himself that maybe his idea is a mere extension on Cooks work, way before Tesla. If my work is really theirs they have credit, I want credit for doing it today.

Now there are many post and questions and what I feel need to be done here is a hiatus, my work is about to be submitted to independent testing labs for verification.

So lets all sit back for a week or so and cross our fingers (me my toes included) and see what happens. If I receive favorable results, we all are headed for a home run. If it is bad news than I have saved everyone a lot of fussing around with high hopes.

Is this proper to propose?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on January 28, 2008, 10:35:12 PM
Dr Stiffler,
Absolutely........I agree, but you know I have to fiddle with this circuit anyway. I'm usually trying to break software and systems not diving back into oscillator design. I'm actually enjoying this and I still want to at least reproduce the results you have presented thus far. It really is a cool circuit..........good luck with the independent V&V.

Hmmmmm........Colpitts Oscillator.............Electrostatic coupling into????????? Wonder if anyone has tried this on their TPU? I have about three or four of them laying around. :-\
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on January 30, 2008, 10:36:15 AM
@Dr.stiffler
It looks as if your output has increased with the use of a loose coupling?, Tesla made remarks to the effect that when using these types of currents problems arise in tight coupled coils due to distributed capacitance which can be resolved by adding capacitance in series with or parallel to the secondaries.This seems reasonable when we consider the fields we are dealing with and that inductance should be counteracted, at which point we should also consider the rate of vibration in the secondary itself as it does not necessarilty have to match your primary but could have a resonant relationship to it. :)
Best Regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on January 30, 2008, 04:45:18 PM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Koen1 on January 31, 2008, 06:37:31 PM
Sorry to jump in like this,
but who agrees with the analysis given on Peswiki ??
(http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit):
Quote from: PESWIKI
comments on video 2 by PM:

This circuit is similar to a very common circuit used by thousands of people everyday to power the flash lamps in disposable cameras.

The equation Ronald Stiffler is using for energy in the capacitor is based on the voltage of an open circuit capacitor. The measurements seem to be of the voltage being applied to the capacitor in the circuit. Depending on the circuit, these can be quite different. Therefore his capacitor energy calculations are probably incorrect.

The readings shown on the power supply are 12 volts and 0.120 amps. Power in watts is volts times amps. Power is an instantaneous reading. Energy is power times seconds. Energy is an average reading over time. The power going into the circuit is 12 volts x 0.120 amps = 1.44 watts constantly. The energy going into the circuit is the average power per second. Since the power going into the circuit is constant, the average value will be the same as the constant value. Thus the energy going into the circuit is 1.44 watts-seconds where 1.44 watts is the average value of the power during each second. This energy is then converted to a higher voltage by use of the transformer (apparently to about 114 volts). Since energy is conserved, the energy coming out of the transformer is also 1.44 watt-seconds (with some losses due to heat). This energy can be stored in a capacitor and removed either slowly or quickly as desired. In this case all of the energy added to the capacitor in each second is then removed at the end of the second (if the light is pulsed once per second as stated in the video). Thus an energy of 1.44 watt-seconds is added to and then removed from the capacitor each second. It is not given, but the bulb appears to be on for about 1/10 of each second. Assuming this value, then the average watts going into the bulb during that 1/10 of a second must be 10 x 1.44 = 14.4 watts in order for the energy to be 1.44 watt-seconds (with 0 watts going into bulb when it is off). Remember, energy is the average value of the instantaneous power in watts that is applied during the second. In this case, to get the average power put into the bulb the power in each 1/10 of the second is summed and then divided by 10 > 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 14.4 = 14.4 and 14.4/10 = 1.44. Since the bulb is a 15 watt bulb, it will be bright during the 1/10 second it is consuming 14.4 watts. Thus the circuit performance can easily be explained without ?cold electricity? or ?over unity?.

Note that the primary of the transformer is being fed with an RF frequency signal. It is unclear if this is deliberate or if it is a parasitic oscillation. The open lead on the secondary of the transformer is not actually unconnected at RF frequencies but is connected to other parts of the circuit by the parasitic capacitance of the lead.

So what he's saying is that Stifflers circuit is not at all OU...
Which of course is in direct contradiction with the claim that this circuit is a self-running "cold electricity" OU circuit...
And, by the way, also in conflict with Stefans own statement
Quote from: Stefan
So ouput / input is around 170. (Stefan Hartmann; Oct. 11)
.

Anyone? :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on January 31, 2008, 07:08:23 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 01, 2008, 12:31:48 AM
I would have to invite PM to have a look at the current waveform being delivered by the power supply not panel meters, if that is what the judgement is based upon, unless of course it based with the circuit PM built  ::) I'm working on getting mine running and will eventually have exact reproductions of Dr. Stiffler's circuits. They are very interesting circuits. Are they showing unconventional energy transfers? I don't know yet as I have not reproduced them yet. Where do we measure power in? The output terminals of the power supply? The power cord from the mains? Power measurements can be a real pain in the ass. Power measurements in dynamic systems like oscillator circuits, and any other AC or impulse circuit for that matter,  are not simple at all. They require simultaneous, accurate, voltage and current measurements as well as an understanding of phase shifting and reactive power. I think I'm going to use the light output measurement for tuning, as suggested, and then find the output power using a calorimeter, as suggested. The input power may be a little more tricky but I can't make any judgement until I'm measuring it myself. Then I will post the results. I hope that Dr. Stiffler will share the complete results with us. I have my share of PHD friends that will be glad to point out where I'm dreaming. They will also be amazed and awed if the data shows anomalous results based on conventional EM theory. That is what science is all about. Dr Stiffler seems to be quite genuine and he, or someone on his staff, is definitely skilled in electrical engineering. I won't make any judgements until they are on my own attempts to reproduce this possible anomaly...........Just my freaking buck and half..............................................  ;D Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on February 01, 2008, 01:59:29 AM
@Loki67671
power measurement is easy --- you use a capacitor as your power supply and charge a capacitor on the output. Capacitors do not lie  ;) All these calaculations and equations like in that peswiki fiasco are just to impress the girls, they mean nothing in "reality".
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 01, 2008, 01:08:50 PM
@allcanadian,
Thanks. Will explore that. But I think more importantly;  8)

All,
Have we established, as a team or group, this most important of processes as a standard? Power out over power in? I think it would be a very good idea to establish exact criteria and methods to accomplish this that we all use without fail. A standard if you will. That way we will avoid any unnecessary arguments over what energy is being delivered to the load as compared to the energy being supplied by our power supplies. If anyone believes for a moment that Dr Stiffler submitted one of his circuits to an independent laboratory for testing without first performing an exhausting series of measurements and analysis, shame on you. I really doubt he would spend the money on independent V&V (Verification & Validation) without having convinced himself first. We would do good to follow suit and I mean as a standard method across the board. No point in arguing that my oranges are different from your apples  ;D sheesh! Any way, If any of you guys and gals have some of these antenna cores and are convinced that Dr. Stiffler has been huffing too much rosin without a ventilation fan I may be convinced to get you a little bit of your cash back, i.e. will consider purchasing from you. I try to build all of my circuits and devices out of junk or used items as much as possible. Maybe I'm just cheap ;D In reality I have been brainwashed by too many project managers......including my wife :o :o Just PM or e-mail me and we will discuss it. Actually I would like to just buy a small roll of the litz wire, if anyone knows where that is readily available in small to medium quantities.
@Dr Stiffler,
Please, if you would be so kind, post a document or at least let's collaborate on the creation of the standard lab manual for unconventional researchers. We could then post it here, peer review it, come to agreement amongst each other and use it. I would be quite interested in your thoughts and methods for efficiency calculations and measurements. If, of course, you are willing to do that????

Arguing is a very good thing as long as we are arguing over technical details and data. But they have to be based on standards to the best of our abilities. Arguing over irrelevant data or attacking each other personally should be banished.

Onward through the fog.........................Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on February 01, 2008, 03:13:34 PM
@jim,
Please stop looking through the window and just do the experiments. For me, in doing these experiments, I have seen things that can not be explained with text book understanding. Power-in vs the power-out is only part of the issue.
In the words of Bruce Lee, if you concentrate on the finger you miss out on the heavenly glory.

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 01, 2008, 03:24:43 PM
@AM
Roger that. The weekend has almost arrived and I have wound the inductors except for the damned litz wire. Someone is about to loose an AM radio very shortly. Premeditated electronic cannibalism. IN progress............Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on February 01, 2008, 05:23:23 PM
@AM
Quote
Please stop looking through the window and just do the experiments

A very wise person in this forum once said ---- "you cannot build what you do not understand", I think anyone who has tried to build these circuits before understands this statement perfectly well. Where is your premise? Can we find any more understanding by building something we obviously don't understand? If we built this circuit what would we be looking for, and if it didn't work how would we fix it?  Speaking from experience I can tell you understanding must come first ---not last.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Koen1 on February 01, 2008, 05:35:24 PM
I don't really see how you can miscalculate OU....

I mean, you make certain you know exactly how much energy is going in, by measuring the voltage and amperage at input,
then you measure exactly how much voltage and amperage is coming out,
and if Eout > Ein then we have OU... right?

It seems strange that this apparently goes wrong so often...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Koen1 on February 01, 2008, 05:38:16 PM
For me, in doing these experiments, I have seen things that can not be explained with text book understanding. Power-in vs the power-out is only part of the issue.
Well, if the Ein vs Eout is not all of the "things you have seen that cannot be explain by textbook understanding", then what else have you seen that cannot be explained?
And is this truly an electromagnetic anomaly, or are we talking flawed/incomplete textbooks here? ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on February 01, 2008, 05:51:26 PM
@alcanadian
Like many here, I was looking for something that some one else may do so I could copy it then, one day I thought to myself where is the joy in that?

Now take Michael Faraday, he perhaps had the same magnets and wires as many other people of his time. Only by building and experimenting he came to the conclusions that he came to.

I don't claim to have Faraday's insight but as an example, I discovered by myself what we call Avramenko plug and for a long time I could not believe what was happening. With only one side of an analog multimeter connected to the output coil, I was reading 800 VAC. As I moved my hand closer the voltage shown increased! how could that be possible? Then I tried a DVM. on that the reading only flickered around 0V. Changing the range does not seem to effect where the needle is pointing!

I could just watch the TV and wait for someone else to bring the next paradigm shift about but I want to be part of the revolution.
So, I gave my TV away!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 02, 2008, 02:22:54 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on February 02, 2008, 03:47:20 AM
Hmmm, to develop a theoretical understanding of "something" prior to experimental evaluation, or to derive a theoretical understanding of "something" after experimental observation?;   that is the question Horatio!

Hmmm, the old, which came first, chicken and egg routine again.

Personally I'm waiting in great anticipation for the chick to hatch!   :D  KneeDeep!

This continues to be an interesting thread with intriguing surprises. Cheers all from the Toad Who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 02, 2008, 03:58:23 AM
Progress update;
Someone lost their AM radio  :D Removed the AM loop from the radio and inspected it. Horribly assembled by god knows who. Cheap, no way to compete with this stuff if people are willing to buy this garbage. The winding is deformed by wax of some sort. I don't know if it was deliberate or not. Doesn't matter. Will fire up with my heat gun and reform. Now I am having a bit of difficulty with obtaining the tuning range of colpitts base inductor that the Doc calls for, as measured with an LCR. I did manage to get a 4.5uH to 9.5uH put together on a phenolic form. It tunes with a standard ferrite slug. I'll see if I can make that up by adjusting the cap around the 400pf mark. We'll see what range I can get going out of this. I have to clear a space in the basement for firing this thing up. Don't want to upset the powers that be by blasting off indiscriminate RF emissions, at least not too far  :o. I'm subbing in an NTE-123AP genpurp x-sistor to try first for my oscillator as it crosses to the called out one. Anyone know how critical the collector inductor design is? Are we talking about large self inductance or just 22uH of some type? First light....soon, hopefully tomorrow................Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 02, 2008, 09:02:22 PM
@ALL

Gentlemen!

Try not to get all worked up again. Here are some thing that will help your confusion.

Power In: It is damn hard to measure (period). On my SEC devices you can filter th hell out of the input and still see artifacts >50MHz. I have been working with RF for 40+ years and never have had a problem similar to making these simple circuits quiet. That is the thing that is most interesting and (maybe) why no one has seen this effect before. Bad, noisy circuit, filter, bypass or throw it away. Conventional EE does not want noise, spikes, jitter, bleed, whatever you want to call it. EE wants stable calm circuits that can show no noise or artifacts on the  power rails.

Yes you can quiet these circuits, but that is not the point in measuring input. The lab that (I think) will test this circuit uses a major piece of equipment that has a band width of 20-30khz for True Power. Guess what, SEC will never show OU this way. You need a very expensive digital integrating oscope, something with a sample rate >10MHz, then and only then will the facts appear.

I do not want to make anyone mad or say they are wrong, but someone please show me one of my circuits (working) with a clean set of wires feeding back to the power supply??? Please, I am willing to learn even this far into the game.

Now for output. I have to admit it has to be Heat and this is far from easy or simple, even though the concept is simple. Building a device that gives correct results is damn hard.

You lock away your circuit in a container, hoping the tuning does not change, calibrate the whole instrument with a resistor and DC known current and voltage, determine the 'Offset' for the device, let it site for many 10's of hours to again reach equilibrium, power up your circuit and hope for the best. No adjustment when its in the box, just cross your fingers.

In my lab the device that (hopefully) will be lab tested showed an OU of 2.158 after an 8 hour run. This may sound great, but in the first hour of testing showed an OU of 2.663, it should not have gone down, it must go up or stabilize. So I have fingers, arms and everything crossed. My lab cell (crude) but following all requirements for calorimetry may be in some way hosed and I do not know it. Yet power out in a SEC, because of the high impedance on the output is best left to a calorimeter.

I think I am okay, but maybe the next few weeks will really tell. I do not think I have that much wiggle room.

My device is shown below, 1.5' foam around circuit and water container, cotton batting and two layers of bubble wrap.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 02, 2008, 09:45:06 PM
@All

From that most exciting first hour, here is how the computer looked.

Q = c m dt * 1.1622E-3 = W/Hr

   Calorimeter Calibration Offset   3115.000
   Temp start t(s)   20.400      
   Temp end t(f)   21.800      
   Water/SH   1.000      
   m = mass/gm   500.000      
   dt = t(final) ? t(start) 'C   1.400      
   W/Hr   4.434   15973.405   Joules
   Run Time (minutes)   60.000   1.00   Hours
        Vs = supply voltage   24.000      
   Is = supply current   0.0694   1.666   Watts
   W/Hr   1.666   5995.680   Joules
   COP   2.662      

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: mrl on February 02, 2008, 09:48:22 PM
@ALL

Gentlemen!

Try not to get all worked up again. Here are some thing that will help your confusion.

Power In: It is damn hard to measure (period). On my SEC devices you can filter th hell out of the input and still see artifacts >50MHz. I have been working with RF for 40+ years and never have had a problem similar to making these simple circuits quiet. That is the thing that is most interesting and (maybe) why no one has seen this effect before. Bad, noisy circuit, filter, bypass or throw it away. Conventional EE does not want noise, spikes, jitter, bleed, whatever you want to call it. EE wants stable calm circuits that can show no noise or artifacts on the  power rails.

Yes you can quiet these circuits, but that is not the point in measuring input. The lab that (I think) will test this circuit uses a major piece of equipment that has a band width of 20-30khz for True Power. Guess what, SEC will never show OU this way. You need a very expensive digital integrating oscope, something with a sample rate >10MHz, then and only then will the facts appear.

I do not want to make anyone mad or say they are wrong, but someone please show me one of my circuits (working) with a clean set of wires feeding back to the power supply??? Please, I am willing to learn even this far into the game.

Now for output. I have to admit it has to be Heat and this is far from easy or simple, even though the concept is simple. Building a device that gives correct results is damn hard.

You lock away your circuit in a container, hoping the tuning does not change, calibrate the whole instrument with a resistor and DC known current and voltage, determine the 'Offset' for the device, let it site for many 10's of hours to again reach equilibrium, power up your circuit and hope for the best. No adjustment when its in the box, just cross your fingers.

In my lab the device that (hopefully) will be lab tested showed an OU of 2.158 after an 8 hour run. This may sound great, but in the first hour of testing showed an OU of 2.663, it should not have gone down, it must go up or stabilize. So I have fingers, arms and everything crossed. My lab cell (crude) but following all requirements for calorimetry may be in some way hosed and I do not know it. Yet power out in a SEC, because of the high impedance on the output is best left to a calorimeter.

I think I am okay, but maybe the next few weeks will really tell. I do not think I have that much wiggle room.

My device is shown below, 1.5' foam around circuit and water container, cotton batting and two layers of bubble wrap.


Get yourself some large caps (maybe some super caps).  Charge them up then let them run the circuit and take note of the voltage drop within a measured period of time.  Then do an RC time calculation.  That should give you an idea of how much energy is being drawn.  If done right, it could yield some reasonably accurate readings.  It would be somewhat the equivalent of a dual slope AD converter.  You apply a known load to the cap for a certain time, measure it, and get an error reading.  Then charge it up again and measure the load with the charged cap discharges rate and apply your error reading to your math.  You can use digital timers.  A PIC micro would do this nicely for you.  You would have a very accurate instrument that, as far as I can see, would not lie if you did it right.  The error value would compensate for any resistance in your relays or FET switching circuits.  Also, the switching doesn't have to be fast.  Maybe 20 times per second or even less on larger caps.




This is just off the top of my head.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 02, 2008, 09:53:35 PM
@ALL

Gentlemen!

Try not to get all worked up again. Here are some thing that will help your confusion.

Power In: It is damn hard to measure (period). On my SEC devices you can filter th hell out of the input and still see artifacts >50MHz. I have been working with RF for 40+ years and never have had a problem similar to making these simple circuits quiet. That is the thing that is most interesting and (maybe) why no one has seen this effect before. Bad, noisy circuit, filter, bypass or throw it away. Conventional EE does not want noise, spikes, jitter, bleed, whatever you want to call it. EE wants stable calm circuits that can show no noise or artifacts on the  power rails.

Yes you can quiet these circuits, but that is not the point in measuring input. The lab that (I think) will test this circuit uses a major piece of equipment that has a band width of 20-30khz for True Power. Guess what, SEC will never show OU this way. You need a very expensive digital integrating oscope, something with a sample rate >10MHz, then and only then will the facts appear.

I do not want to make anyone mad or say they are wrong, but someone please show me one of my circuits (working) with a clean set of wires feeding back to the power supply??? Please, I am willing to learn even this far into the game.

Now for output. I have to admit it has to be Heat and this is far from easy or simple, even though the concept is simple. Building a device that gives correct results is damn hard.

You lock away your circuit in a container, hoping the tuning does not change, calibrate the whole instrument with a resistor and DC known current and voltage, determine the 'Offset' for the device, let it site for many 10's of hours to again reach equilibrium, power up your circuit and hope for the best. No adjustment when its in the box, just cross your fingers.

In my lab the device that (hopefully) will be lab tested showed an OU of 2.158 after an 8 hour run. This may sound great, but in the first hour of testing showed an OU of 2.663, it should not have gone down, it must go up or stabilize. So I have fingers, arms and everything crossed. My lab cell (crude) but following all requirements for calorimetry may be in some way hosed and I do not know it. Yet power out in a SEC, because of the high impedance on the output is best left to a calorimeter.

I think I am okay, but maybe the next few weeks will really tell. I do not think I have that much wiggle room.

My device is shown below, 1.5' foam around circuit and water container, cotton batting and two layers of bubble wrap.


Get yourself some large caps (maybe some super caps).  Charge them up then let them run the circuit and take note of the voltage drop within a measured period of time.  Then do an RC time calculation.  That should give you an idea of how much energy is being drawn.  If done right, it could yield some reasonably accurate readings.  It would be somewhat the equivalent of a dual slope AD converter.  You apply a known load to the cap for a certain time, measure it, and get an error reading.  Then charge it up again and measure the load with the charged cap discharges rate and apply your error reading to your math.  You can use digital timers.  A PIC micro would do this nicely for you.  You would have a very accurate instrument that, as far as I can see, would not lie if you did it right.  The error value would compensate for any resistance in your relays or FET switching circuits.  Also, the switching doesn't have to be fast.  Maybe 20 times per second or even less on larger caps.




This is just off the top of my head.


!!No disrespect meant here, but to run this circuit for in excess of 20-40 hours for the calorimeter seems to mean I would need something like 1,067F of capacity????
Title: RE: - Food for thought, strictly Hypothetical.....
Post by: nat1971a on February 03, 2008, 11:59:02 AM
RE: - Food for thought, strictly Hypothetical.....

Many years back Dr. Harold Aspden published a paper on obtaining energy with cylindrical capacitors, resonant circuit and a high voltage for initial excitation; a starting point with the current idea is http://www.aspden.org.uk/3.html

Take a look at both his very first circuit (without the multiple ring capacitor) and the current circuit, it takes little in imagination to wonder what would happen if one were to drive such a circuit with an AV Plug. Better yet forget AC as in SEC and drive it with DC into an impedance followed by a AV Plug set of diodes and the capture circuit.

Am I the only one that sees something similar?

Time to pull out the hundreds of dollars of copper cylinders and take a quick look, maybe.

Anyone wish to comment that may have followed this???
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All,

Just so happens i was flicking through "The living Energies by callum coats" last week and on page 248 & 249 there is a few diagrams of  "the tree as a bio-condenser with a series of concentric, cylindrical, charge carrying plates separated by cylindrical dielectrics"....well worth having a look at as nature is telling us that capacitors/condensers should be in the shape of concentric cylinders.

Regards,

Nat.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nat1971a on February 03, 2008, 12:04:13 PM
Should have also mentioned that they stuck a probe into a tree (and the other probe at the outer surface) and detected relatively large voltages p247
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 03, 2008, 02:21:57 PM
Just another quick update on my progress:
I have most of the Circuit components now. Will measure and adjust if necessary tomorrow. A quick pic of the BB and layout comming together............................Just a couple more components to round up and I'll be tuning for maximum smoke.....I mean maximum out over in...............Jim  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 03, 2008, 03:54:21 PM
Just another quick update on my progress:
I have most of the Circuit components now. Will measure and adjust if necessary tomorrow. A quick pic of the BB and layout comming together............................Just a couple more components to round up and I'll be tuning for maximum smoke.....I mean maximum out over in...............Jim  ;D

Looking at your picture I have a question for you, have you measured the two coils in the front most part of the image (measured for L). If the coil on the left (long with slug) is to be used in your base circuit, it appears to me to be way to much inductance, as with the air core on to the right and front of it.

Go back a few pages and I showed a diagram of the best 'Exciter'  and list the values.

If your L's are to high or two low and you will for sure suffer frustration.

If you have done all that, ignore me and proceed on the march.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 03, 2008, 04:04:56 PM
Here is an image of a test unit inside the calorimeter, I placed an arrow to the calibration resistor.

I Have a stupid question for any expert in calorimetry, I want to know what effect phase change will have on overall outcome? It appears that my vaporization is having a marked effect on readings.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 03, 2008, 04:13:09 PM
Dr Stiffler,
I have measured the tunable on the left and it is intended for the oscillator tuning. I have measured the tunable range as 4.5uH to 9.5uH. It still will not swing the range you are calling for. The larger coil I have not measured yet, I will tomorrow, when I have access to the LCR. I also would love to be able to sweep the coils for Fsr and will have to as I get deeper into this. As a matter of fact I will remeasure and confirm all of my values on a second LCR. I'm also going to use your design for a calorimeter as a starting point. I have various DAQ's available so I intend to automate my calorimeter and I really need to solve a drift issue with my spectrum analyzer, BK Precision 2610, 1.0 GHz. There is so much to do and so little time. I'm going as fast as I can but I need to make sure I understand as much as possible before I go looking for anomalies. The RFC is supposed to 22uH correct? I have seen reference to 2.2uH and 22uH for this same inductor. Can we really call this circuit a Colpitts? I think Stiffler Driver is more appropriate as I haven't been able to visualize the split capacitance characteristic of Colpitts.........We're moving...............Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 03, 2008, 04:52:13 PM
Dr Stiffler,
I have measured the tunable on the left and it is intended for the oscillator tuning. I have measured the tunable range as 4.5uH to 9.5uH. It still will not swing the range you are calling for. The larger coil I have not measured yet, I will tomorrow, when I have access to the LCR. I also would love to be able to sweep the coils for Fsr and will have to as I get deeper into this. As a matter of fact I will remeasure and confirm all of my values on a second LCR. I'm also going to use your design for a calorimeter as a starting point. I have various DAQ's available so I intend to automate my calorimeter and I really need to solve a drift issue with my spectrum analyzer, BK Precision 2610, 1.0 GHz. There is so much to do and so little time. I'm going as fast as I can but I need to make sure I understand as much as possible before I go looking for anomalies. The RFC is supposed to 22uH correct? I have seen reference to 2.2uH and 22uH for this same inductor. Can we really call this circuit a Colpitts? I think Stiffler Driver is more appropriate as I haven't been able to visualize the split capacitance characteristic of Colpitts.........We're moving...............Jim
The circuit you want to use is at; http://www.stifflerscientific.com/ at the top of the page.

Leave off the Power capacitor on the AV plus and the Sidac, either connect a large (1.9mA) or greater Neon or a 1-3K carbon load resistor directly across the plug. the variation of resistor in the load is determined by you circuit layout and any differences in components. Testing will determine the correct load.

Yes it is a 22uH with an SRF of 13MHz.

You spectrum analyzer will be very eye opening, you will be surprised!

Good luck, I do not check this site very often as it is hard to get to work???? So you can ask questions direct if you wish and then post back here what you want so the other fellows keep posted.

Just started another calibration run after some calorimeter changes. I use a very nice tool that is inexpensive but works great for data capture, 'LabJack' great tool...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 03, 2008, 08:24:08 PM
Here is an image of a test unit inside the calorimeter, I placed an arrow to the calibration resistor.

I Have a stupid question for any expert in calorimetry, I want to know what effect phase change will have on overall outcome? It appears that my vaporization is having a marked effect on readings.

While I'm not claiming to be an expert in calorimetry, I would expect, in a continuous material, that if the temperature of the material were such that there was a state transition occurring the temperature would plateau while energy input continued until the state transition completed then once again continue to rise? Just a poke at it. What is with the blackening of the test circuit PCB? What do you suspect is vaporizing? Evaporation of the water in the calorimeter tube itself?......Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 03, 2008, 10:12:04 PM
Here is an image of a test unit inside the calorimeter, I placed an arrow to the calibration resistor.

I Have a stupid question for any expert in calorimetry, I want to know what effect phase change will have on overall outcome? It appears that my vaporization is having a marked effect on readings.

While I'm not claiming to be an expert in calorimetry, I would expect, in a continuous material, that if the temperature of the material were such that there was a state transition occurring the temperature would plateau while energy input continued until the state transition completed then once again continue to rise? Just a poke at it. What is with the blackening of the test circuit PCB? What do you suspect is vaporizing? Evaporation of the water in the calorimeter tube itself?......Jim

Here is what happens. (All experts will get a chuckle from this).

The calibration resistor is powered at a constant Voltage and Current (DC) while the water temperature in the sink is monitored every hour. The readings are fed into a program (spreedsheet) that calculated COP based upon input power and temperature rise in a known quantity of water. Because the Specific Heat of the apparatus is not known and the leakage is not known, once the input and COP reach equilibrium , the test is over and a factor is calculated to bring COP to 1.00. This factor then accounts for the unknowns.

The unit is allowed to sit for a minimum of 14-20 hours to allow it to cool and reach equilibrium with the environment. *Note the unit can not be opened or messed with in any way or the calibrations factor will be in error)

After insuring the unit is stable, a SEC test is started by applying power to the SEC Exciter. Again temperature and input power ar constantly monitored and the average is logged every hour.

Here is the problem, the calibration does what one would expect. Temperature continues to rise in a linear way until it tops until the unit becomes stable. With the SEC circuits it works differently, a large increase in temperature in the first 2-3 hours and a high COP followed by a declining COP. What is happening is the water because of the high temp is vaporizing. This will form a vapor pressure withing the containment vessel.

My feeling is that this is why the COP goes down. Now if this is the case, somehow the increased vapor pressure and the heat change involved must be factored back into the offset.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: emitremmah on February 04, 2008, 12:39:18 PM
Dr. Stiffler,
What about using a known heat resitant filter in the calorimeter. So the maximum temperature doesn't cause vaporisation but rather a slower and lower maximum temp.

As long as the heat resistor is the same and known between your baseline and then the calculations should be similar.

wrap the heat source is something like an oven mitt or heaven forbid "asbestos", fired clay or some other known heat absorber/filter.

Bernard
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 04, 2008, 04:41:17 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tinu on February 04, 2008, 06:44:04 PM
@DrStiffler,

I watched the thread in silence and I have to admit that I?m sitting on the safe side. Nonetheless, I?d love to see an undeniable proof of CoP>1 and I wish you best of luck and inspiration. Please find several suggestions you may dismiss entirely or use at your convenience.

1. Assume that a constant and repeatable working regime can be achieved. (i.e. CoP measurements would be valid for that particular functioning point only but it may be enough to boost further experiments and to open gates for independent lab confirmations). ?Black box? approach is suggested, measuring Pin, Pout and Ploses, where all are assumed to be kept approximately constant (i.e. function of relatively few controlled parameters like voltage and ambient temperature) and independent of each other through different tests.

2. Pin:
a) on short term (i.e. minutes), based on RC constant, as previously suggested;
b) on longer term (i.e. days) by using two matched (based on discharge curve) sets of identical rechargeable batteries; discharge (intermittent in control setup if needed) on precision resistor(s); control by comparing voltage; integration of voltage times current; batteries permutation; average.
a and b above can also give an error estimate; corrections can then be applied to reduce the gross error.

3. At this stage I?d convert all Pout in loses (i.e. in heat) for simplicity.

4. For Ploses (or Pout) as heat, absolute calorimetry may be a real pain. I?d use instead comparative calorimetry, based on simply minimizing the differential temperature in two identical setups (calorimeters) and measuring power in required for keeping the same temperature on long run (at thermal equilibrium). Air as working fluid might perform well, although air flow (placement of device, Rcontrol and temp sensors) as well as internal calorimeter volume may require several trials. I?d use water maybe just as external fluid to provide the same T-ext (eventually thermo stabilized) & an appropriate heat sink and that only if it proves absolutely necessary.

Again, please don?t hate me for the long and painful path suggested above.
(Apparently, the hard work is always expected to be done by the inventor and I?ve already admitted my quilt so far  ;))

Respectfully,
Tinu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 04, 2008, 08:55:05 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 04, 2008, 09:31:12 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 05, 2008, 12:36:32 AM
And here's another illustration to show what Dr. Stiffler is doing.   

He is using a wire mesh over the whole length of the coil, but I believe a small pad towards the top will work just fine.
He did report that a solid foil cylinder will NOT WORK, and I hope that's clear to everyone why it does not work.  It's a ONE TURN COIL and it will damped the oscillations due to it's low resistance (transformer action with a turn ration of n:1,  where 'n' is large)

However, a mesh like he uses, has surface inductance as well and  won't choke the oscillations, but it's better to use a pad or strips instead of a full cyclinder.

EM

P.S.  The question remains, where is the excess energy produced, IF ANY?   Is it due to the resonant nature of the coil?   Possibly.  People with Tesla coils can do awesome things and light lots of lightbulbs.   What about the AV plug?  Is that what's doing it?    We have to realize that there is stray capacitance even in the AV plug, or else it won't work.   On a bread board behind the plastic we have strips of metal that form a capacitor lattice, and at the high frequencies we use, they can have very little resistance to AC  (reactance is low).   What I showed here is by no means conclusive.  I'm just trying to illustrate what I'm seeing and understanding.  Dr Stiffler tends to talk in terms of esoteric notions of space lattice energy , etc..,  but in actuality there is no such thing.  The lattice is not in space, per say, but it's the COMPONENTS themselves that are being used to form this lattice, and they have resonant MODES.  We call this science,  ELECTRONICS,   LOL  :D
This site seems lost again, so this may post a million times. :-(

So you never really build one of these circuits? Because if you had you would have seen the error in you hypothetical appraisal.

Sometimes it is necessary to draw a line in the sand to see who really crosses it. LOL :-) Science in the mind, Electronics from the mouth.

Based on your own hypothetical statements and grand ELECTRONICS/SCIENCE conjecture I guess you need to build it or re-think it. Strange you never saw in any of the images, the unit sitting inside the calorimeter for example, the SOLID, SHORTED TURN coupling. Just so you don't mis it again, see below. LOL, LOL big time. :-) And here I went and even complimented you ONCE.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: armagdn03 on February 05, 2008, 01:51:50 AM
The bottom figure will illustrate what Dr. Stiffler is doing different then Tesla, as far as driving the resonance of the secondary.


EM

P.S.  In actuality there is capacitance to the ground plane from each turn of the coil, or towards other near by objects.  This will rob the coil of some of it's high potential.    In essence there is a voltage divider at each turn and some energy is lost due to displacement currents.  But for all practical purposes, what is shown is a good model.

Ouch!  Tesla used magnetic induction only and not capacitive or dielectric induction? hmmmmm, maybe you should take another look at Tesla If this were true, no need for pancake coils, "faster than light" propagation, single wire power transfer (which Tesla invented first) etc...

Also, top or bottom doesn't matter, the wavelength considered for the particular use matters, for example, one quarter is good for potential maxima or minima, which could possibly aid in the wireless transfer of energy, should one want to do that. 

Electricity is not split into two parts, magnetic and electric, both are the same varying to the degree based upon our lovely factor of time, Tesla was trying to maximize frequency and minimize period, and in doing so maximizing the dielectric field,
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 05, 2008, 01:59:05 AM
Confirmation measurements from a Hameg LCR;
Slug tuned inductor on vertical form 4.65uH to 9.53uH. I won't know if this range of tuning will be adequate until I actually fire up and go through the tuning process.
Air core RFC 22.6uH. I know, it's ugly and I will have to rewind a "pretty" coil if and when I need to showoff......not! Actually I probably will for consistency.
I'm not even going to speculate as to what is happening in Dr. Stiffler's circuit until mine is functioning the same as his. I'm getting there. I also just picked up some copper mesh and some copper screening, from the freaking craft store. Good call Doc! A magnet will not stick to it either. I carried one with me just to be sure I was getting what was advertised. 100% copper is what they say. Does anyone know what the wire specification is on those damned AM loop antenna's? Someone has to have the stuff. You know, Litz wire, really friggin small with really fine cotton string mixed in, same stuff used in an AM loop antenna in your simple AM transistor radio..........that is followed by a glassy eyed look or loooooooong pause on the phone.......indicating they have not a clue of what I just asked about. LOL Someone else is going to loose their AM tuning capabilities......LOL....I'm a rotten bastard.........but it is for the betterment of us all!  8)

@Dr. Stiffler,
I wonder if solder braid might prove useful here? It's not coated with the insulation but I might be able to cure that with heatshrink tubing. Just an idea. I'm going radio hunting! LOL................................Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 05, 2008, 04:26:44 AM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 05, 2008, 04:46:30 PM
armagdn03
Quote
Ouch!  Tesla used magnetic induction only and not capacitive or dielectric induction? hmmmmm, maybe you should take another look at Tesla If this were true, no need for pancake coils, "faster than light" propagation, single
wire power transfer (which Tesla invented first) etc...

Yes, now you understand.  Tesla used only magnetic induction using the primary coil to drive at the bottom, and Dr Stiffler drives the coil towards the top by CAPACITIVE COUPLING.      You are right, we can do without the pancake coil (or primary few turn coil) that Tesla used.  The magic really happens in the secondary at resonance, REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU DRIVE IT TO RESONANCE. 

For those interested, there is a third way to drive the secondary, and that is BOTTOM FED.   You simply connect one leg of the coil to the oscillator output (coil over ground plane) and the other coil end becomes the high voltage terminal relative to ground. 

RStiffler
Quote
Because if you had you would have seen the error in you hypothetical appraisal.

Dr. Stiffler,   I find your work unique, don't misunderstand, but I do chuckle a bit at your explanations, hence my light hearted comments.  I hope you don't take too much offense.   

So what ERROR in my hypothetical appraisal do you see? 

By the way, thanks for the pictures, but I did NOT notice you were in fact using a split ring.(I saw a mesh)  I see the ring now.  Looks like you have your RF wits about you, it's after all common sense (if your an RF engineer)  Most people on this forum are just basic experimenters, and judging by their explanations, they're off in La La land.  I hope you don't gravitate that way either.

So, I just like to tell it like I see it.  In a way I'm trying to help you out by keeping you in the realm of reason.  There is no sense in jumping to esoteric explanations when they are already explained by conventional theory, wouldn't you agree?   Your hoping to write a paper and you might just have to get past me to publish, so look at this as a free review  :)     

Have you done careful measurements of Amplitude and phase at all the nodes?   Have you applied conventional theory first and shown where it falls short?  You have to do these things before you move on to other explanations.

I have not seen this type of excitation of a many turn secondary before, so you have something unique there.  However, that doesn't mean I've seen all.   I've seen some circuits that make use of resonators in microwave circuits, and there's lots of topologies that work.

My new setup:

I checked your concepts and they work, see figure below.   The few turn coil that's close to the left secondary is just for capacitive coupling  (didn't have time to make a nice pad just yet).   the small coil on the carpet with the ferrite is for adjustment (I slide the ferrite through it)   I get beautiful sine waves, but I'm slightly out of the resonant range, so I might need to order some more capacitors to get exactly or modify my small coil.  Stay tuned...

EM
@EMDevices

Have you ever just stopped, so tired of the race that you wonder why you continue??

I do appreciate your comments and attempted replications of one or more of my circuits, yet we are for some reason still comparing Apples to Water Melons here. You know it could in part be the large size of this thread and the massive amount of information added in bursts.

Anyway I have posted before and will one last time some relevant information and some scope shots.

1) Unless you use a 100:1 scope probe on the collector of the 'Exciter', you will change and even cancel what I state as operational conditions.

2) Image #1 shows what you will see on the collector under ideal conditions. The trace at the bottom is from a sniffer coil placed next to the power coil. Nowhere, except in the sniffer coil will you see any wave form that even approaches a sine wave. If you are seeing a sine wave on the collector, it is not a replication.

3) Image #2 is an expanded view under the same conditions.

4) Image #3 is again another view of expanded sniffer coil coupling.

When one talks of stray capacity, your circuit has far more than any of my circuits. In fact a comment in rebuttal to yours on the capacity of the AV Plug diodes, yes they have capacity to the outer world, BUT using Surface Mount HF Switching Diodes will increase the effective output of the circuit. Now with the SM's capacity went way down and yes speed may have gone up, but reducing the capacity in and around the AV Plug is desired and productive. I stated this way back... when people were trying to add mass and antenna's to increase output (which was counter productive).

You are without doubt a very intelligent person highly knowledgeable in the field, yet you suffer from that knowledgeable. You cavalier comments about my hypothesis among other things has turned me from respect to suspicion. When attacked one attacks back and I am learning well to do that. Why can you now vacate rote positions and open up and use you vast knowledge in a supporting effective way.

No problem..................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 05, 2008, 07:25:36 PM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 05, 2008, 07:55:59 PM
RStiffler
Quote
1) Unless you use a 100:1 scope probe on the collector of the 'Exciter', you will change and even cancel what I state as operational conditions.

2) Image #1 shows what you will see on the collector under ideal conditions. The trace at the bottom is from a sniffer coil placed next to the power coil. Nowhere, except in the sniffer coil will you see any wave form that even approaches a sine wave. If you are seeing a sine wave on the collector, it is not a replication.

3) Image #2 is an expanded view under the same conditions.

4) Image #3 is again another view of expanded sniffer coil coupling.


thanks for those scope shots.   I agree with you, I have sinewaves you have spikes, not a replication yet.   It's just a matter of time and I'll get the same scope shots.

Do you know why you are getting the spikes?    I got those with another circuit, and most people that have played around with blocking oscillators will recognize them right away.  Inductive kickback.  An it looks like they are driving the resonance of the coil every so often.   If you sped up the spikes you could drive on every cycle and then the magnification would be phenomenal.

don't have any suspicions about me, I'm not out to attack anybody, I'm out to defend  common sense !!  LOL   :D 

anyway, happy experimenting,  Have you heard back from the lab?  I'm currious to see what they say.

EM

Yes I have heard from the first proposed lab. It isn't going to happen. Minor NDA change request, no problem, yet when the lead for the testing makes a statement of "or rather extract from some novel source" which shows at once a bias, and the fact for some reason they are limited to 14VDC as a power source, results in a total deal breaker.

So all the Overunitry.com pundits will still have a forum for a while in which to relieve their frustrations.

In fact.........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 05, 2008, 09:10:50 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 05, 2008, 09:48:04 PM
Dr Stiffler,

I would phrase the testing request in a different way to get around this.    I would have them test the systems THERMAL CONVERSION EFFICINECY, and tell them you want to know how much of the input energy is converted to heat vs. radiated away.  Don't mention anything about excess energy.   

Now, if they test and find out they get over 100% heat output vs input, they will let you know with a puzzled look on their faces.   You can then tell them you can NOT have extra energy generation,  so their testing methods are faulty and they're incompetent, and ask for a refund !!   LOL  :D

Speaking of input voltage,  will your circuit work with let's say 9V?   How about 14 V DC?   Why or why not?

EM


Yes and No.

If you go back to the original circuits with the two coils on the core they will work at 12V and somewhat above, yet for a reason I do not understand are very voltage sensitive and will switch to transistor dissipation of the excess energy rather than the plug. If you use this older configuration it will run on 14V and an MPSA06, but not near the excess energy that can be obtained from the 20-24V range and the current excited coil arrangement.

The reason which falls under "There is no sense in jumping to esoteric explanations" as you put it, is that there is a voltage level that must be present on the AV Plug before a measurable amount of energy can be observed and I do have an " esoteric explanation" for this, but see no need to open the door to further controversy by stating it here. Maybe some conventional EE understanding will suffice for this answer.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Schpankme on February 05, 2008, 10:06:55 PM

original circuits ... will work at 12V ... excess energy can be obtained from 20-24V range ... there is a voltage level that must be present on the AV Plug before a measurable amount of energy can be observed ...


Dr Stiffler,

I've noticed this same voltage effect, and reasoned it to be like the surface tension of water.

- Schpankme
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 06, 2008, 03:57:24 PM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on February 07, 2008, 08:27:06 PM
I moved the new Mini-Tesla design from EMdevices to:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4070.0.html
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 09, 2008, 12:54:08 AM
All,
I have now gathered everthing but the SIDAC. I managed to get my hands on a spool of the LITZ wire also so fooling with the AM loops is no longer an issue. I'm building my SEC on single sided solder pad prototype board. I don't have unlimited time so my progress isn't very fast but I'm steady moving forward. I hope to start getting some preliminary measurements this week and fool around with the tuning of the oscillator. It should prove interesting. My spectrum analyzer has some dried out electrolytics it would appear. The drift drives me crazy but I will fix that shortly also. I am assured that the view will be very interesting. Next in the project plan will be the calorimeter to measure output power. The input power I will attempt to measure using a high speed digital scope and a current probe. Once this has been accomplished and the results look good I will move the device into the lab, where all of the calibrated equipment resides and see if I can validate Dr. Stifflers circuit performance. More to come......Stay tuned boys and girls.......... :-*
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 09, 2008, 03:12:16 PM
Two SEC secondaries wound on paper cores. The one sitting on the back of proto board is wound with cotton covered 10 strand LITZ with individual strands definitely finer than a human hair. The lower is wound from 3 strand Twistite LITZ. On the right is the copper pipe that will be used to excite the LITZ inductors just as Dr. Stiffler has shown in video 9.75 I believe. On to the board layout and soldering of the components into the PCB. The calorimeter will be built in a plastic cooler filled with solid blue foam insulation. Two PMC tubes will be installed, one for delta-temp on the resistor and another to monitor the calorimeter itself, and instead of lab thermometers K-type thermocouples and two DAQ's will be connected to a PC. I'd love to do this full time but that's not going to happen anytime soon.........Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 09, 2008, 10:05:44 PM
All,
I have now gathered everthing but the SIDAC. I managed to get my hands on a spool of the LITZ wire also so fooling with the AM loops is no longer an issue. I'm building my SEC on single sided solder pad prototype board. I don't have unlimited time so my progress isn't very fast but I'm steady moving forward. I hope to start getting some preliminary measurements this week and fool around with the tuning of the oscillator. It should prove interesting. My spectrum analyzer has some dried out electrolytics it would appear. The drift drives me crazy but I will fix that shortly also. I am assured that the view will be very interesting. Next in the project plan will be the calorimeter to measure output power. The input power I will attempt to measure using a high speed digital scope and a current probe. Once this has been accomplished and the results look good I will move the device into the lab, where all of the calibrated equipment resides and see if I can validate Dr. Stifflers circuit performance. More to come......Stay tuned boys and girls.......... :-*
Need to get that analyzer repaired as you will be excited with what you see.

I have included a couple of images, the first is when the Exciter is OFF and the second is with it ON. What is interesting is the Exciter outputs energy from 520khz to 110Mhz, the second is only a small view with the scale of 5Mhz per/div. I marked some of the frequencies and if you look ad my web site you will see that even with the new coil arrangement that the base point are the same.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 10, 2008, 12:09:27 AM
Dr Stiffler,
Where is all the nonlinear mixing occurring? The poor transistor or the crazy complex impedance hooked to it? Silly question, the crazy complex impedance and an oscillator should produce things like this. The spectral distribution is interesting and if I were looking at that in the shop the first thing I would suspect is that some of it was I-Mod between the SEC and Spectrum analyzer RF circuits. Damn I have to get this critter running. The second thing I would be worried about would be the FCC. Obviously when we see something like this in a commercial radio unit we are obliged to "cure" it. 520KHz is the bottom of the AM broadcast band, the AM loop antenna or copy of it? Did you remove windings from the commercial loop cores to use as secondaries for other arrangements? Now this next observation may or may not be of value but they seem related. Some posts back I said that I remember seeing strange operation in a radio front end and it had to deal with switched antenna runs and PIN diodes. The spectrum analyzer would look like this for short times, called splatter, back through the receiver and cause communication interruptions. We removed the diodes from the circuits and the problems went away. Funny thing was only one of the antennas was being used out of three. No termination was provided to them so two of them floated off to where ever. Never looked any further than that because we quit having communication issues. These particular radios were operating in the UHF bands and required immediate attention lest the transmitters started following suit. One of the bizarre symptoms that came and went with this was a serial communication chip that would melt down for no damned good reason that I ever found and also went away with the comms problems. The chips no longer go down and there is no explanation. All is well in EE land.

In any case, as you can see I'll be firing up pretty close to what you have posted. Cool beans, sorry I'm not moving faster!

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 10, 2008, 02:37:51 AM
Dr Stiffler,
Where is all the nonlinear mixing occurring? The poor transistor or the crazy complex impedance hooked to it? Silly question, the crazy complex impedance and an oscillator should produce things like this. The spectral distribution is interesting and if I were looking at that in the shop the first thing I would suspect is that some of it was I-Mod between the SEC and Spectrum analyzer RF circuits. Damn I have to get this critter running. The second thing I would be worried about would be the FCC. Obviously when we see something like this in a commercial radio unit we are obliged to "cure" it. 520KHz is the bottom of the AM broadcast band, the AM loop antenna or copy of it? Did you remove windings from the commercial loop cores to use as secondaries for other arrangements? Now this next observation may or may not be of value but they seem related. Some posts back I said that I remember seeing strange operation in a radio front end and it had to deal with switched antenna runs and PIN diodes. The spectrum analyzer would look like this for short times, called splatter, back through the receiver and cause communication interruptions. We removed the diodes from the circuits and the problems went away. Funny thing was only one of the antennas was being used out of three. No termination was provided to them so two of them floated off to where ever. Never looked any further than that because we quit having communication issues. These particular radios were operating in the UHF bands and required immediate attention lest the transmitters started following suit. One of the bizarre symptoms that came and went with this was a serial communication chip that would melt down for no damned good reason that I ever found and also went away with the comms problems. The chips no longer go down and there is no explanation. All is well in EE land.

In any case, as you can see I'll be firing up pretty close to what you have posted. Cool beans, sorry I'm not moving faster!

JIM
Told you that it would be interesting ;D

That was just to get you thinking, look at something better!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on February 10, 2008, 03:01:54 AM
Told you that it would be interesting ;D
That was just to get you thinking, look at something better!
Veeerrryy Interestiiiinnnggg! KneeDeep!
I'm still finding this thread extremely intriguing. Keep up the great work all!
Cheers from The Toad Who Hops  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 10, 2008, 03:22:47 AM
Doc,
If that broadband rumble grumble is not coming from the circuit doing the NLM,  then you're ringing some freaking thing across 100+ MHz of banwidth. I have seen the entire noise floor of an instrument raised in close proximity to emission sources. Actually that is quite common. That does not appear to be in these shots. ARE You crackling the background?  ;D Pushing into the big charge!  ;D Excited speculation and dreaming I suppose!  ::) In any case I would be breaking into an assortment of very tight hi-Q notch filters and inserting them into the SA input. Gives an idea of what components of the input are ringing in on the images and how much trust we can place in the spectral purity of the instrument. Obviously the persistent signals outside of the banwidth of the notched input tend to be internally generated. Listen to me trying tell you about spectral purity. Criminy, with that mix you'll be in the lab for days  :o  God, I want to see the changes in that display as the Oscillator base inductance is tuned throughout its range and attempt a correlation between maximum luminosity of LED output and spectral power density. Very interesting stuff!!!!! Look Below. I love the smell of rosin core solder in the morning!!! Smells like.............Energy! 8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 10, 2008, 03:43:04 PM
@Loki67671

I love how your proto is coming together, you will have far less stray capacity this way.

First a couple of comments on the SA pictures. Before the SA entered the picture a very extensive and laborus search and documenting the output from a a SEC Exciter was done with a very high quality received with a resolution of 0.0005% and integral power measurement (relative). The frequency bands from 100khz to 400Mhz was explored in 1000hz steps (auto scanning 'sweep') and when a suspected emission from SEC was suspect, the unit was shut OFF. Using the very long procedure produced a very informative spectral profile of the device. This is where I wanted to see something more graphic and an SA was secured.

(Maybe) some artifacts can indeed be from the SA, yet for this to be true in a meaningful way, the receiver (with far different LO's and IF's) would have to present the very same artifacts. I therefore dismiss the consideration that the SA is what is showing this strange Exciter output. This output is fully expected and predicted by SEC Hypothesis.

Now for you direction, leave the AV Plug layout so you can try any number of loads with ease. If you want to see dramatic output, stick a 120V/7W incandescent across it at 24V input. Use a high current drain Neon or Xenon, (the Xenon requires a little extra circuit to trigger the plasma) for Heat output. A plain carbon resistor across the plug works well for exploration. Do not use capacity or inductance across the plug if you are going for heat. If you use capacity with LEDS be very careful not to break the chain with the cap in the circuit and reconnect the chain, (BURNED LEDS) will result, the voltage can climb to over 400V.

Forget the SIDAC, this was in the learning curve where constant sustained power could not be supported. SIDAC not needed.

Do not take the MPSA06 above 24V DC input, will destroy every time.

It's not the transistors, if it were we are all being duped and all transistors are created equal. The frequencies present are here no matter if you use 2N2222, 2N3904, 2N3906, PN100, PN200 or MPSA06.

Tell the wife you are feeling a little ill and need to sit down for an hour, fire this thing UP!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 10, 2008, 06:23:20 PM
Oh Yea,
I am pushing my luck with not just the wife but also an awesome 4 year old daughter. The prime motivation behind my work. Soon this creature shall come to life.

But a question or two first, if I may?
The electrical connection to the copper exciter, I see a ring most of the way around the copper. What is the relationship between the ring and the copper pipe? The exciter conductor, from the x-sistor collector, is soldered to the ring and the ring is electrically connected to the pipe how?  When placing the air core secondary inside the exciter, what type of plastic tube surrounds the coil and is it playing an important role like SEC coupling? Looking at the annotated photo below, will shielding be of advantage or disadvantage and if so where in my layout? I have copper screen and grid material. Do you think I'll get away with the 24VDC rail supply setup? I only have one bench supply and don't want to whack it.  ;D I do like testing circuits this way, beside you already proved to me the concept of circuit operation is more than sound. It may be slower and require a little more work but it is much more stable than the BB.

I believe you looked extensively at the spectral components of the excited circuit. I think I was just blathering off where I would be headed, and probably still will, once the tuning starts.  That's wild, I was listening to you before I read the hints in your last post, what do you think of this arrangement for AV Plugs? Yes, Yes, Good old carbon heaters. can't beat them!

Once again I apologize for not being able to move faster. We're getting there.  ;)

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 10, 2008, 06:43:52 PM
The first light geometry will be something like this with the supply and filter boards below the working boards.  ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 10, 2008, 09:37:10 PM
The first light geometry will be something like this with the supply and filter boards below the working boards.  ;)

Here is one little secret that I have told over and over again, but some people pass over it.  >:(

The capacity of the AV Plug and load should be as low as possible. Adding mass and antennas appear to increase output of LED strings, but this has nothing to do with SEC and in fact will remove the possibility of energy gain. I have on the latest boards used surface mount HF diode switches and mounted as close to the exit wire of the coil as possible. This reduces the capacity of the Plus portion greatly.

You will see two heat sources if that is what you will be looking at. The coil and Cu cylinder will get Hot and of course your load will get Hot. Yes the transistor will get warm. The excess heat, if that is what you are going after will come from the Cu cylinder and coil and the AV Plug load. The transistor, the coil and cylinder and the load will evolve greater heat than the input power states.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 10, 2008, 09:38:43 PM
A link of possible interest... 8) 8)
http://lanoswww.epfl.ch/studinfo/courses/cours_nonlinear_de/extras/De_Feo(2003)_Bifurcations%20in%20the%20Colpitts%20Oscillator_From%20Theory%20to%20Practice.pdf
Sorry Doc......I'll spend months in the mathematics of this paper. You see if there is anything of value. So what are we thinking here, the SEC is indicated by a broadband increase in the local spectral power? What is the noise floor on the SA? -100dBm or -110dBm ? Are you thinking the coherence is of the random noise and equally random frequency distribution? Somehow we get the randomness to not be so random? Isn't that patterning in chaos? God now I'll never sleep.............................. :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 10, 2008, 09:46:24 PM
@Loki67671

Do you know the SRF of your 22uH choke?

I have a real concern with your coil. I have included a picture of the 22uH coils I have been using. As you can see it is on a dime and has an SRF=13MHz.

Just to help, I don't want you to say it don't work,,,,,
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 10, 2008, 10:09:40 PM
A link of possible interest... 8) 8)
http://lanoswww.epfl.ch/studinfo/courses/cours_nonlinear_de/extras/De_Feo(2003)_Bifurcations%20in%20the%20Colpitts%20Oscillator_From%20Theory%20to%20Practice.pdf
Sorry Doc......I'll spend months in the mathematics of this paper. You see if there is anything of value. So what are we thinking here, the SEC is indicated by a broadband increase in the local spectral power? What is the noise floor on the SA? -100dBm or -110dBm ? Are you thinking the coherence is of the random noise and equally random frequency distribution? Somehow we get the randomness to not be so random? Isn't that patterning in chaos? God now I'll never sleep.............................. :P

Oh my, http://lanoswww.epfl..... now do you think they ever thought of adding an AV Plug,  ;) ;) ;)

Then I wonder if one of the capacitors was to stress space,  ???

Great paper, will be tonights reading.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 11, 2008, 02:24:19 AM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 12, 2008, 11:59:39 PM
@EM
My primary interest in the (SA) views posted by Dr. Stiffler from the spectrum analyzer revolve around the harmonic content and the huge bandwidth covered by the excitation. I suspect that Dr. Stiffler has investigated this in much greater detail. Notice the "markers". The first is the spectrum analyzer's local oscillator and the second appears to be an FM radio station. When the SEC circuit is not energized these are basically the only strong signals visible. When the SEC is energized a huge bandwidth of fundamental and harmonics shows up along with the "markers" so there is additional data, besides the Faraday cage, that we are not dealing with a local radio station transmitter supplying a significant amount of the reported additional energy. I fully agree that harmonic content in a circuit containing multiple complex impedances is not overly surprising unless of course some of those harmonics are not accounted for. Then we have to ask the question, "where are they coming from?".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectral_density,
is a good place to start on that subject and I will have to dive back into this analysis technique if necessary. I have access to a math instructor and doctorate level EE when I need help with these types of questions.

I'm not saying that my assessment is anything other than speculation at this point. What I am saying is that unless I have built and tuned the circuit under question and then measured the same parameters as Dr Stiffler I will not know. I am building the circuit.

What I would be highly interested in would be a comparative display of that mini-Tesla you built and it's spectral content vs the spectral content of a tuned SEC driver. If the circuits are in fact operating in the same mode then there should also be the same harmonic content displayed on the spectrum analyzer. Of course that assumes very similar operational setup and relationships between the circuits. It also assumes that the instruments, spectrum analyzers, are comparable in design and response characteristics. It is very painstaking and  meticulous work.

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 13, 2008, 12:53:01 AM
All,
An update for anyone following this. I have ordered 22uH, 13MHz SRF, chokes from Jameco. I also ordered MPSA06 transistors. I was using 2N4401 to build, because I had them along with 2N2222's and NTE123AP's. So now the only big difference here will be that base tank variable inductor. I'm not sure how the DOC is getting that variable range out of the inductor but, Dr. Stiffler, you are the man.  ;D I obviously have much to learn.  8) 8) That is why I like the field of electronics so much. Dr. Stiffler also correctly pointed out that, as he stated previously load capacitance must be kept to an absolute minimum, my "cute" little AV plug boards are not going to fly and I am revising the layout to include the AV's on the blue board. Hopefully I will receive my components this week and get on with firing up the SEC in a reproduction of the last circuit configuration he posted. My project manager, I mean my wife, doesn't give a hoot what we are doing. As far as she is concerned we're all nuts................Imagine that!  :-*

Best regards and stay tuned if you're so inclined. Better yet, build this thing with me!  ;D

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 13, 2008, 04:28:05 AM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 15, 2008, 12:51:33 PM
Well......it doesn't look like my components will get delivered until Tuesday or so but here is a shot, I know its fuzzy, of the exciter and LITZ wire secondary. I secured an old thermos cooler and will begin setting up my calorimeter and winding various secondaries this weekend.

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 15, 2008, 01:45:25 PM
Well......it doesn't look like my components will get delivered until Tuesday or so but here is a shot, I know its fuzzy, of the exciter and LITZ wire secondary. I secured an old thermos cooler and will begin setting up my calorimeter and winding various secondaries this weekend.

Best regards,

JIM
You did ask and I must not have answered, 'Did I recommend a data capture unit'? Well as you must know, there are many out there, yet for a 12 bit accuracy and multi functional unit that is external and USB coupled, I like the LabJack U12. It can take some time to calibrate, but you need not do it often. There are PCI boards etc., but I like the USB approach for attachments. The LabJack is good enough for general lab work and we use a number of them.

I have a Excel spreadsheet that was setup just for Sec and a special VB program that runs with the LabJack for data capture during calorimetry runs. We can maybe use or reprogram to help you during tests. It records Vs, Is, Ta, Tc, and Tw. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 16, 2008, 01:45:59 AM
Wow! LabJack has the goodies! Nice. I have some surplus DGH modules, RS485, individually addressable but the LJ offering is really cool. Automation of whatever you can imagine for well under a grand is an excellent use of technology I would say. Doc, if your offering to let me use software for automating the experiment I'll be glad to oblige, thank you. I'm just waiting on the UPS man,  ;D

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 16, 2008, 08:27:05 PM
All,
Here is a shot of the 1st board with the exciter and secondary in micarta standoffs and the proposed changes to comply with Dr Stiffler's observations and comments. A second driver board is also being lay-ed out and will be assembled once the new components arrive via UPS. I will also likely trim the micarta standoffs down quite a bit when I can hit the bandsaw and drill press.

@Dr. Stiffler,
Please review and comment at your convenience if you would be so kind. I managed to come damned close to the 2uH -> 10uH for the new oscillator. 2.4uH -> 9.35uH   :-[    In the photo I have outlined the proposed build area for the AV plugs and probably several different loads for experimentation. The new board will be built once and when satisfactory low level testing passes and will be used for the calorimetry runs. The DAQ's I'm using are 15 bit with a resolution of 0.02% FS, 1 channel differential analog input, with programmable large and small signal filtering plus a definable transfer function filter. I'm going to attempt differential temp measurements along with absolute temperature measurements but I want to make sure that at absolute minimum I am gathering data that is equivalent to or as close to the same manner as you are. So we must discuss the test plan and data format at some point.

My temperature sensors will be based from the National-Semiconductor data sheet for the LM335AZ and I have attached a snapshot copy of those for additional review. All in all we are moving fairly well given the massive research grants we get from the NSF and Dept. of Energy..............Not!!!  :o :o  ;D

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 16, 2008, 09:27:09 PM
Dr. Stiffler,
In the effort to reduce stray C, have you also shortened the LITZ secondary leads? I'm considering cutting the micarta down to much smaller footprint and mounting to the PCB between the oscillator and AV development area. Comments?

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 16, 2008, 09:50:54 PM
Dr. Stiffler,
In the effort to reduce stray C, have you also shortened the LITZ secondary leads? I'm considering cutting the micarta down to much smaller footprint and mounting to the PCB between the oscillator and AV development area. Comments?

JIM
As of today I will be providing the calorimetric run data on the Stiffler Scientific site. Go to StifflerScientific.com and at the bottom you will find links to the calibration files and the run files. The files to be shown are starting yesterday with a calibration run followed by an in progress test run. There will be at least four runs posted in this series.

If you do not understand the formulations, please contact me at the Stiffler Scientific email address.

@Loki67671
Looking good...............
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 16, 2008, 10:07:24 PM
@Loki67671
You can see from the data what I am using, simple, Ta=Temp ambient, Tw=Twater, Vs=source voltage, Is=source current. The offset is determined frm a calibration run of your cell.

Contact me direct if you need additional, no need to use bandwidth here.

@EMdevice
Don't bother with your theories et. al., build it or forget it............. If you build it, build it the same, not like your Tesla God!, in short your not helping!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 16, 2008, 10:36:21 PM
I'm going to remove a significant amount of the micarta material from the standoffs holding the solid copper exciter and mount it like in the picture. I think this will provide for minimized stray capacitance in the layout and hopefully not mess with the oscillator operation, of course that is why this board is designated as the working prototype, it'll probably get changed 10 times before it's right. We'll see. Then the rectifiers and load circuits will be on the end block of the PCB, the other side of the exciter/secondary assembly.

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 19, 2008, 08:19:19 PM
For those that may have interest, 5-calorimetric Runs have just completed. See the results at www.stifflerscientific.com/calorim.asp
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 20, 2008, 05:35:04 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 20, 2008, 11:43:42 AM
Ron,

A few questions in regard to your calorimetry results:

1)   What do you mean by COP?  (Coefficient of Performance)   

2)   Why is the PC board shown at the bottom of the webpage, almost all blackened out? I'm prepping my board, hopefully, for a good cooking! ;D  Is it really heat damage from the experiment? That I can't tell you just yet.  ;D  If so, how much power are you putting in? EM-the spreadsheets behind the links at the DOC's website have the data necessary to calculate the answer to your question.

EM

@All
If the UPS man isn't lying my components should be here today. In these latest pictures I have posted the secondary is being held in place by ceramic insulation discs. The exciter is 1" copper tube. I'm about to move into the low level start-up and tuning of the circuit. My apologies for the crappy pictures, I have an older digital camera. I will have to get some hi resolution shots of my device replication attempt, if anyone is interested. I'm also working on the calorimeter for the P-in vs P-out test runs. My results will follow when I obtain them.

@Dr. Stiffler,
How significant is the RF radiation from the SEC and are you accounting for that also in the P-out total? If so would you be so kind as to share the technique. I suppose one would have calculate or measure the SEC radiation pattern. "NO!!!! Not Smith Charts! Honey! He's gonna make me do math again!"  ;D

Thang's is-a start'n ta heat-up.  8) 8)

More to follow, you can be sure.

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 20, 2008, 01:52:27 PM
Ron,

A few questions in regard to your calorimetry results:

1)   What do you mean by COP?   

2)   Why is the PC board shown at the bottom of the webpage, almost all blackened out?   Is it really heat damage from the experiment?  If so, how much power are you putting in?

EM
@EMdevices

I do not want to be bogged down in semantics I am using COP to represent Pout/Pin and all are referenced to W/Hr. I have posted  the actual data and formulations, please look there, I do not fell it necessary to go through it all again here.

Something of interest to you. Loki is moving forward with a Large power coil arrangement, one I held reservation on. In order to see for myself I did build a large coiled unit (smaller than Loki). I found a set of conditions similar to your Tesla comments some posts back, as explained below.

With a low power load (hi Z) the output coupling could indeed be adjusted by in and out movement of the inner coil in/out of the Cu sleeve. This of course resulted in the ability to optimally (tune) energy coupling. Now as expected when the load in increased (lower Z) the effect declines and is no longer observable under high loading, resulting in optimal position of both coils being centered.

This is fully understandable, yet the energy transfer is not degraded in the broad banding of the load and is improved as more of the harmonics are utilized.

Just wanted to let you know I did observe this effect.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 20, 2008, 03:28:53 PM
@All & @Ben

Ben some time back (early on in thread) did something similar to the following where he drove a number of Neons from multiple AV Plugs. In my last post to EMDevices where I tried a larger coil (smaller) than Loki's, I used Neons as loads. The included photo shows Neons (1.9mA) units driven by a large coil. Note that the Litz wire is not used in this coil and the Neons are driven very heavy from 20V @ 10mA, there is an upper limit where the output starts to drop, but that number of Neons is very large.

Just thought someone would like to see the picture, like Ben as he was the first to do it from the older coil designs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 20, 2008, 03:46:32 PM
Ron,

A few questions in regard to your calorimetry results:

1)   What do you mean by COP?  (Coefficient of Performance)   

2)   Why is the PC board shown at the bottom of the webpage, almost all blackened out? I'm prepping my board, hopefully, for a good cooking! ;D  Is it really heat damage from the experiment? That I can't tell you just yet.  ;D  If so, how much power are you putting in? EM-the spreadsheets behind the links at the DOC's website have the data necessary to calculate the answer to your question.

EM

@All
If the UPS man isn't lying my components should be here today. In these latest pictures I have posted the secondary is being held in place by ceramic insulation discs. The exciter is 1" copper tube. I'm about to move into the low level start-up and tuning of the circuit. My apologies for the crappy pictures, I have an older digital camera. I will have to get some hi resolution shots of my device replication attempt, if anyone is interested. I'm also working on the calorimeter for the P-in vs P-out test runs. My results will follow when I obtain them.

@Dr. Stiffler,
How significant is the RF radiation from the SEC and are you accounting for that also in the P-out total? If so would you be so kind as to share the technique. I suppose one would have calculate or measure the SEC radiation pattern. "NO!!!! Not Smith Charts! Honey! He's gonna make me do math again!"  ;D

Thang's is-a start'n ta heat-up.  8) 8)

More to follow, you can be sure.

JIM

@Loki

A few minor(?) suggestions.

The Black wire coming from the edge of your board to the base coil (assumed ground),  could be a slight problem due to length and radiation. Could you decouple it at the coil? (cap back to V+) so the only high level RF on it will be only by small induction as it lies across the board from the coil to the ground rail.

The White wire feed from the Exciter collector to the power coil, it looks also to be rather long. Maybe a bit shorter.

If to much work to change now, maybe later, but may make things a bit more stable.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 20, 2008, 03:57:28 PM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 20, 2008, 04:08:21 PM
thanks for the answers guys.  Loki, the board is coming along beautifully, keep up the good work !

so, if the COP is Pout/Pin, then it would appear we have an overunity situation.  I wonder though, if perhaps this is just due to measurement uncertainty, since some of the runs are COP<1.   The results are encouraging for sure.

more questions:
I guess I'm a bit confused about the construction of the coil.  Are you using a solid copper cylinder?  Then pasting another metalic strip onto it?   See the anotated photo.

EM

@EMDevices

Yes some runs are COP<1 (only one) and two are withing the range of measurement error, like only 6%>, but rest assured the posted runs are not the only ones that have been performed.

Friend, you need to slow up a bit and stop reading between the lines. Yes indeed these are solid copper outer rings, maybe the word rings confused you. Like Loki says copper pipe sections, copper pipe couplings, etc. Yes the coupling to the copper is done with copper tape, but it is not a capacitor, there is indeed electrical connection between the tape and the underlying copper. This method is used to simplify connection, no need for a big torch or iron to heat the whole mass for soldering. I thought it was a rather clever way to do it.
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 20, 2008, 04:29:33 PM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 20, 2008, 08:43:55 PM
Ok Ron, that makes sense now, thanks.    So indeed you are using a solid conductor cylinder and the strip is only for attachment to avoid heating up the whole cyclinder for soldering purposes.    I guess what threw me off was your initial comments when you were using the copper mesh, and said that a solid pipe would not work, I guess it does work with some adjustments.   Very good.

Just some comments from my tesla setup.   While in operation, I move the oscilloscope probe up and down the length of the coil to observe the E-fields.    Just like predicted,  I get a 1/4 wavelength mode that's very prominent towards the top, then in the middle the 1/2 wavelength mode is prominent, and further down I see what appears like a 2/3 wavelength mode perhaps, but they are all mixed in so it's hard to tell without a spectrum analyzer.

So, if you are using a solid cylinder, then it stands to reason that perhaps you might be exciting the 1/2 wavelength mode more prominently then the others.  This is because the 1/2 mode has high voltage in the center of the coil, and high current at the ends, which means that if you short circuit the coil it will continue to oscillate just fine.  I'm currious if that's the case with your coil. 

EM
@Emdevices

Okay, I tried it for you. Sorry for the poor quality pictures but the camera and the SA seem at times not to like each other.

Pic#1  is Exciter OFF. The noise floor is -87dbm. The center freq. is 198.4MHz @ 20MHz per/div. The signal is 20dbm per/div.
Pic#2 is with the Exciter powered ON with a normal load, (same setup).
Pic#3 is with the coil shorted.

As can be seen the Exciter does still oscillate, but the output level and the harmonic content is changes.

Is this what you wanted to see?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on February 20, 2008, 09:25:22 PM
@drStiffler
In one of your previous posts you mentioned you noticed dinural effects from the SEC. Are you still of the same opinion and
did your tests confirm this
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 20, 2008, 11:00:11 PM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 20, 2008, 11:30:32 PM
@drStiffler
In one of your previous posts you mentioned you noticed dinural effects from the SEC. Are you still of the same opinion and
did your tests confirm this
@AhuraMazda
I have not discarded something strange, but the calorimeter is the way to prove it and there are some basic problems in repeated runs. Once run it has to rest (cool) until is reaches an equilibrium state. I just today finished full automation using the LabJack U12, this way I can program it to run without human presence. Also I have modified the unit so the heat exchanger water can be replace without changing the calibration, use a long stem pipette to suck it out and replace with cool water, this cuts the wait time to a third of what it was.

I will be looking further into my statement over the next week or two. Will post here any meaningful results.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 21, 2008, 12:40:59 AM
Quote; Answers added to quote in RED.

@Loki

A few minor(?) suggestions.  OK, they actually are not so minor and would be the exact kind of issues identified and solved in review meetings. Thank you for the RF layout tips.

The Black wire coming from the edge of your board to the base coil (assumed ground), It is in fact ground and will be moved to the bottom side of the board, shortened, and decoupled as suggested could be a slight problem due to length and radiation. Could you decouple it at the coil? (cap back to V+) so the only high level RF on it will be only by small induction as it lies across the board from the coil to the ground rail.

The White wire feed from the Exciter collector to the power coil, it looks also to be rather long. Maybe a bit shorter. Yes it is long and is not soldered into place yet. I always leave extra wire when prototyping a circuit and until a layout is decided upon. This wire will be as short as possible and directly routed from the exciter collector to the coil. No loops, bends, kinks, or points hopefully.

If to much work to change now, maybe later, but may make things a bit more stable.
It actually winds up being more work later on and I am finalizing this build for initial power-up this weekend.

@Dr. Stiffler,
The points and suggestions are well taken and quite valid. They will probably save me a ton of time. Thank you sir! Oscillators can be strange creatures indeed! The freaking UPS guy didn't deliver today either. Tracking has the package about three hours away but the items haven't moved since the last time I checked it. Knew I should have had them shipped AIR. Damn!

This board in the pictures will be my working model for the bench. It will see many changes and loads. The board that I will run the COP testing on using the calorimeter will use the exact circuit layout, or as close as I can get to it, as you have posted.

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 21, 2008, 01:00:08 PM
But UPS man is delivering today  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 22, 2008, 05:33:07 PM
One of those tongue in cheek sayings, 'Bigger is Better'. One might wonder it this applies to a SEC 'Exciter'? Well maybe not everyone, but for those that might.

The first pic is of the VLT (very large tube) 'Exciter', followed by the spectrum of its output, followed by a comparison of a Small tube and the Large tube. As anyone can easily see, there is a considerable increase in spectral energy with the larger tube.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 22, 2008, 06:59:04 PM
Someone already emailed me and ask what was the coil inside, was the end shown in the picture all there was.

Well no. Large tube requires a large coil. The following shows the coil along side the tube. Isn't it interesting what high frequencies come from such large thing?

@Loki
Your large litz wire coil may be full of interesting tings to explore :-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 22, 2008, 07:18:58 PM
Sometimes one thinks the little MPSA06 is being pushed to hard and it gets a little hot. If you don't have a large supply of them then here is something that will work.

If you don't have a Curve Trace then just matching hfe of the same type transistor will get you in the ball park. All us old timers know that you can match and parallel, so just parallel two transistors of the same type and distribute the stress. The following image shows two connected in such a way.

Another simple thing is that TO92 heat sinks are not easy to come by, the answer is some 1/4" copper tubing, cut to 1/2" or 3/4", ream out to remove the cut edge, apply a little heat compound to the transistor, slip it into one end of the tube just even with the tube edge and crimp with a pair of pliers. Works great and you can get 12 or more from a foot of tubing, not to mention a better sink that what you can buy today.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 22, 2008, 07:38:34 PM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 23, 2008, 02:09:21 AM
All,
I Fired that mother up. Very early initial power up. I placed a neon across the AV plug and fired up to 12VDC or so. Neon illuminated after a short time. Tuned the inductor through full range and saw the intensity change. Will be very cool when I have a little more time to experiment with the circuit and get some good measurements. I found the spot with this rig that had a maximum output but I'm sure tweaking and adjustments will be necessary.  ;)

Doc,
Very nice pipe, I friggin love it! It just looks good, being an old Army generator wrench! The layout tips were all incorporated in the build before any power was applied and the circuit is now operational. We are on our way!  8) 8) 8) Pix to follow shortly I just don't have time right now.

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 23, 2008, 03:22:53 AM
Doc,
The spectral density of the VLT is indeed much greater. Very interesting indeed! I can't wait to get some spectrum information on mine. I will try to get some captures shortly. I know it fires right up but it also screws with the computer monitor.  :P  Time for a cage for my new pets.  ;D

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 23, 2008, 03:44:04 AM
@Loki

You have the show for about a week, then I will upload to YouTube a Scalar Wars video, well just how it could be done. In coming days I need to mount the VLT on a board along with another Heat series.

Sound great an hope its more fun than frustration.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 23, 2008, 01:15:51 PM
@Loki

You have the show for about a week, then I will upload to YouTube a Scalar Wars video, well just how it could be done. In coming days I need to mount the VLT on a board along with another Heat series.


Sound great an hope its more fun than frustration.

@Dr. Stiffler,
I certainly believe that and I'm starting to prove it to myself. Just running this circuit on the computer desk is not a good idea, at least from my immediate experience. It wreaks havoc on the poor devices around it. Flat panel monitor and the sound system didn't seem to care to much for my morning activities. I have to build the filters and some Faraday cages to try and keep some of this confined to the SEC. I can just imagine a five or six inch setup like the pipe  ;)
Fun I'm now starting to have.  ;)  Frustration, for me at least, comes from the lack of funding and time.  :'( I look forward to the new video and do be careful!  ;D

@All,
Now as time and experience move forward I'm sure I will find some very interesting operational characteristics. In the current build I have a 470pF Dipped Silver Mica cap in the base tank. That is not the value specified and I noticed in my studies of the SS website that maximum power output is obtained when using the 400pF dipped Silver Mica. I will obtain these also. This is an interesting value to find from my experience. The big ugly handwound 22uH was removed from the collector circuit of the exciter and replaced with the 13MHz SRF epoxy choke. The ground lead has been remounted under the PC PAD board and shortened by at least 1.75 inches. It is routed directly to the emitter/base-tank coil/GND node. Notice also that a significant amount of the wire connecting the power coil to the exciter collector node has also been removed. The power coil assembly is now physically fastened to the PC board so an exact wire length was defined physically by default. No calculations involved yet as I'm just starting to explore the circuit and I'm willing to bet it will defy some calculations for awhile. You can see in the pictures that my supply input harness is twisted for additional noise immunity on the DC supply. This I just do from habit and quite a few years of working with circuits. I think my old Communications Professor turned me on to this trick about 20 years ago. Of course now twisted pair cable is common place and is used for minimizing RFI and adjacent pair crosstalk. There is much work to do! And I'm sitting here typing instead of soldering tweaking. I have to build a full blown laboratory because this getting serious now and I have little kids, my daughter and her friends, running around the house. Much more to come!

Best regards,

JIM

So now I have even more work to do! I have to prepare a lab-notebook for this project. Play with the circuit some more.  8) Finalize the first build design of the calorimeter and gather the parts. Play with the circuit some more.  8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 23, 2008, 01:54:58 PM
@ALL
If you are or are not any longer working with a SEC circuit but may be working with one needing decoupling here is a simple yet required tip. This has been mentioned on this thread before and by me on my web site.

"All capacitors are not created equal", a 0.01uF is not always as effective as another type of 0.01uF. They can have significant different RF impedances. The short lad chains are best, like using 0.01 - 0.1 - 1 and a good 10. The small ones with small leads and bodies are the least effective for RF.

Power supply lead size should not be small just because you draw low current, current and RF impedance are two different animals. Use large interconnecting wires. Also if you use wired circuits, use a larger wire. Wire wrap wire and other small gauge types are the worst.

@Loki
Looks great, can't wait for the light show. Good luck with the cage  :D
Care with wild things  :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 23, 2008, 02:22:54 PM
All,
I moved the circuit into the basement and fired up just to get a shot of the little neon running on the AV plug. I probed this circuit with another neon and the only place I can get it to light is at the lead from the secondary just as it inputs to the AV plug. This causes the neon in the AV plug to go out. When I remove the probing from this node the neon in the AV plug illuminates. Additional probing of the AV plug nodes illuminates the probe neon and maintains the AV plug neon although with a slight decrease in the AV neon intensity. Damn it, I didn't try to retune when I saw that. Note to self and others:  At no other place in the circuit, including right on the copper pipe, can I get the probing neon to light. I probed every node in the circuit. Very interesting! This is going to eat up gig's of hard drive space. Sweet!  ;D

Best regards,

JIM
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 23, 2008, 03:07:24 PM
@All,
Another observation from the probing. When the probing neon is illuminated inside the loop of the AV plug the supply voltage increased and continued to do so as measured with my Fluke. Since I was operating at 21VDC and since Dr. Stiffler told me that 24VDC was the limit before I was wiping out my MPSA06, I removed the probing neon from the circuit. I did not notice this effect when the probing neon was illuminated at the feed node to the AV plug which as stated before causes the AV plug neon to go out. This is a really cool circuit!  8)

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 23, 2008, 05:08:43 PM
@ALL - some fun stuff?

Wandering Mind of a Fringe Scientist!

I ponder the problem of the disappearing EM energy! I sit listening to my favorite radio
station from a strong noise free signal when something strange takes place.

Now let me set this up a bit. The radio station is at 950kHz and on a quality digitally
tuned receiver with signal strength bars (10 max) show a signal strength meter showing
(7) bars, when all of a sudden the radio goes quiet. I look up to the dial and see only (1)
bar. Fearing the worst, a radio fault, I turned the frequency selector a bit back and forth,
above and below the frequency.

Nothing, total quiet, no static, no hiss and no heterodyning or beat frequency.  For sure
the radio had failed. From past experience I switched to the FM band to see if it just may
be the AM electronics, nothing, total quiet. Ok I say to myself, try some SW bands, just
in case. Nothing but total quiet, no signal bars. Ok try increasing the manual RF gain and
just see what happens. Nothing, no noise, no signal bars and every indication the radio
died.

Now mad I decided to leave my computer work area and return to the lab. When I sat
down at the lab bench I realized I had not turned off a new SEC Exciter I was testing. I
flipped off the power to the device and leaped from my seat as the radio exploded with
noise and a jumble of stations.

I turned the SEC device back ON and the radio went dead, hummm?.

I turned the radio volume down and set it back to the prior station. Returned to the lab
powered up the SA and scope. Something happened on its own while the Exciter was
running as I had been away from the bench for a period of time.

After the test gear was warm and stating 'In Calibration' I turned the Exciter back ON.
Strange the radio was not affected. Looking at the SA showed what I expected to see
from the Exciter. I sat a few minutes' thinking this to be very strange indeed, then 'Total
Silence' and from the corner of my eye I caught the SA screen go wild.

So to end this Saturday Sci-Fi short story I conclude with a picture from the SA.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 23, 2008, 06:04:49 PM
You're killing me! That's quite interesting!  :o

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 23, 2008, 09:32:40 PM
@All
Sorry for another post, but in the last couple of hours some things have really changed with a number of replicators, as a result I need to show something else about SEC.

How to pull energy from the Energy Lattice that a SEC Exciter has opened. The following picture shows at the bottom of the image a light bulb being driven by a coil inside of the copper outer tube. The light on the left is a melting neon. The white light is totally driven by the coil inside of the small copper tube.

Sorry Loki, I know I said it was your stage for awhile, but this has to go out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 23, 2008, 11:40:19 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
It's not my stage, it definitely belongs to you! I'm just studying as usual. So you know I've had this fired up a half dozen times or so now. I have not detected current yet on panel meters. Perhaps a little greater loading soon and we shall see. I'm building the sweet LPF and power interface module with test points for instruments and measurement before I start loading as I suspect my neon probing exercise and the supply voltage reading climb were a by product of reflection back into the DC supply output C. I really must clean this up now! I will stick to experimentation with the board I have posted for now. But I have begun layout of  xxxxxxxxxxxxx_Replication_001. The name is only for convenient storage on my PC's and the software that will be generated to support the project. In any case I must reflect on the test plan creation that fulfills the replication requirements. This is a major goal of my effort here.  ;) Of course my other motivation is brightly glowing lightbulbs which you have certainly posted and the hope that current consumptions stays very low.  ;D ;D
Really cool stuff. Soon we all may have brightly glowing lights....and then some.  :o Thanks for being open about it sir!
But enough dreaming....Back to stuffing capacitors and inductors into the boards.  :P

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on February 24, 2008, 04:33:43 AM
Hi Doc,
great light output !

How much power do you put into it and what wattage rating does
the light bulb have ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on February 24, 2008, 05:29:53 AM


After the test gear was warm and stating 'In Calibration' I turned the Exciter back ON.
Strange the radio was not affected. Looking at the SA showed what I expected to see
from the Exciter. I sat a few minutes' thinking this to be very strange indeed, then 'Total
Silence' and from the corner of my eye I caught the SA screen go wild.

So to end this Saturday Sci-Fi short story I conclude with a picture from the SA.


Probably you have overpowered via your SEC circuit your IF carrier frequency  inside your
receiver, when I remember correcty that is at least for FM
bands around 3.5 Mhz ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on February 24, 2008, 07:44:10 AM
How to pull energy from the Energy Lattice that a SEC Exciter has opened. The following picture shows at the bottom of the image a light bulb being driven by a coil inside of the copper outer tube. The light on the left is a melting neon. The white light is totally driven by the coil inside of the small copper tube.

Sorry Loki, I know I said it was your stage for awhile, but this has to go out.

KneeDeep....KneeDeep......I know I've said it before, but I'll still say it again...KneeDeep

This thread just gets more and more interesting !

Even some "ball park" current and voltage input/output readings from analogue meters would whet the appetite for more information.
O/U or not, I have no idea ?, but there's some obvious real power being dissipated by the globe.
Great stuff Dr Stiffler !

Cheers from Hoptoad.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 24, 2008, 02:39:28 PM
@Dr. Stiffler, et al,
Here are some fairly crappy pictures of my operational SEC as viewed on the SA. I noticed so many things in the last two days that my head is spinning. Seeing as I quit drinking several years ago I know it isn't that. The climbing voltage is an interesting effect. Laying a loose, not attached to anything, neon inside the boundary formed by the AV plug and it's neon caused the number of peaks on the SA to double or triple even after my hand/body was decoupled from the field. Interesting effect. The circuit is moderately warm but not out of control. This time I ran the SEC for about half an hour strait and just watched the SA.  :o :o :o. Man do I have a lot to learn about this little guy!  ;D

I get it, good luck with the cage............. :D ;) Let me see how this pix post.

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 24, 2008, 03:04:22 PM
@Dr. Stiffler, et al,
Even though the pix are relatively crappy, you can see that SD is certainly there. I almost said kneedeep! Now I have some other things I need to do for completeness but,  8) breeze, I'm intrigued. First pix is the build, second the quiet time, third fired and tuned, fourth 5MHz per. Chock one up that will need to be solved, maybe ? ??? ? 
Very cool stuff!  8) 8) 8)

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 24, 2008, 03:46:38 PM
@All & @ Loki

Loki, sometimes a person wonders why they take such care. In you case your followed you own knowledge sprinkled with a bit of input from me and build a real nice 'Thing', all in the hope of greater control and ease in measurement and not wanting to fight the stray artifacts that exist. What I mean is my information to you was based on all the smaller circuits (coil arrangements). Until I saw your VLT I wondered if it would work at all, so I built one, now many. In short you want to include the ability to move that inner coil and observe the Spectrum while doing it. There is a sweet spot where it goes 'WILD' as shown on some of my images.

Second I am bothered by you low currents (like none), this indicates you are not at peak tuning yet. The only times I have seem no current is at lower voltages, and at the same time the supply voltage goes up (go figure  8).

I know you have not done it yet and will, but it is so insightful to also watch the spectrum while varying the supply voltage. Like where you see the stair steps in the tuning, you will observe rather pronounced Power steps from one voltage to the next, (far from any linear curve) more like log.

And yes that pipe organ is not far off  ;D

Just thinking out loud, with a Near Field of 1/3 wavelength in diameter and power dropping inversely with distance, yet this thing near field don't drop, where to put all the stuff is an interesting problem.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 24, 2008, 05:22:58 PM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 24, 2008, 07:37:11 PM
One word of advice,   watch out how much power you put out in the radio spectrum.   The FCC will come knocking on the door, maybe even the FAA if you're close to an airport, or if you're in another country then the US, your local authorities perhaps.

Better yet, if you have a Spectrum Analyzer, you can try a rough measurement of radiated power, like they do officially in EMI labs (3 meter radiated emissions tests etc..) to see if you have energy above the CISPR specifications for radiated emissions.

One last note,  when you drive with a single transistor a multi-mode capable resonator, like you're doing in this case,  the modes of resonance can change abruptly.   My mini-Tesla does the same , but it's way more stable since I'm driving it with the separate Colpitts oscillator (which has it's own frequency), but still, if I get my hand near the main resonator coil, I can "snap" the resonance from one mode to another, which is interesting.  Mode locking certainly happens quite easily even with the Colpitts arrangement.  These modes and the interactions they have with the circuitry is not to terribly hard to understand, but it can be mystifying at times. 

My goal is to create as stable a resonator as I can.  I'm contemplating a crystal oscillator to keep it on frequency.

EM
@Emdevices
Thanks for the heads up, they might take my Federal License away from me and strip me of my Ham ticket  >:(

If anyone is silently building Stiffler Oscillators with VLT's, you need some complex tools for probing them. Included are three pics of very complex probes that work great for finding hot spots and null nodes. High current White LED, 1N4148's on 1cc plunger.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: starcruiser on February 24, 2008, 08:20:21 PM
that is sure hi tech Ron!  ;)

As I always say KISS
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 24, 2008, 08:56:28 PM
@All & @ Loki

Loki, sometimes a person wonders why they take such care. In you case your followed you own knowledge sprinkled with a bit of input from me and build a real nice 'Thing', all in the hope of greater control and ease in measurement and not wanting to fight the stray artifacts that exist. What I mean is my information to you was based on all the smaller circuits (coil arrangements). Until I saw your VLT I wondered if it would work at all, so I built one, now many. In short you want to include the ability to move that inner coil and observe the Spectrum while doing it. There is a sweet spot where it goes 'WILD' as shown on some of my images. I know what you mean but haven't sustained it yet!

Second I am bothered by you low currents (like none), this indicates you are not at peak tuning yet. The only times I have seem no current is at lower voltages, and at the same time the supply voltage goes up (go figure  8). I'm beyond doubting the panel meters and will be measuring current via ground leg shunt. I will have accurate measurements shortly. I cannot believe this circuit draws no current! But also I was taught to do things like take a few turns off the tank coil so the oscillator adjustment peak drops off more in the center of the adjustment range of the tank resonance. Yes I want to explore more range of adjustment, just slowly LOL  ;D

I know you have not done it yet and will, but it is so insightful to also watch the spectrum while varying the supply voltage. Linear increase in V-supply is a standard test from the cookbook Sir! I use it regularly along with fast and slow rise transient to monitor for circuit instability. The SEC shows a very interesting changing spectrum based on V-IN from 0 VDC to 21.5 VDC in just the manual linear increase test, thats all I've done so far. At the shop I would have used a programmable supply. Like where you see the stair steps in the tuning, you will observe rather pronounced Power steps from one voltage to the next, (far from any linear curve) more like log.

And yes that pipe organ is not far off  ;D

Just thinking out loud, with a Near Field of 1/3 wavelength in diameter and power dropping inversely with distance, yet this thing near field don't drop, where to put all the stuff is an interesting problem. Oh I certainly agree with that one, I made a picture in the spectrum analyzer display with my coffee mug this morning.  ;D



@ Dr. Stiffler,
Added directly to quoted text above.

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 27, 2008, 02:46:14 AM
@All,
Made some measurements, applied some tweaks, starting to make a little more light. I completed the killer decoupling filter board today along with a change in the base coil and capacitance. I think I still need to make some observations and measurements to coax out the circuits max performance but I have seen very good improvement today. Specifically because I can now make accurate measurements, although I have not yet put together appropriate probes for looking at the waveforms, you can bet I'm gonna,,,  ;D I added a decoupling cap from the inductor / emitter ground node to V+ for good measure and at the Doc's advice. :  ::) I spose I'll light show it with LED's for folks but I think it's wasting valuable and fleeting labtime. Had some folks scratching heads today, har, along with me of course. I'm certainly trying to figure out what it's doing! Here's some old digital photo's of progress.

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 27, 2008, 03:03:41 AM
And todays light show was performed by, a real nice probe design by Doc Stiffler. Worked like a charm for performing the light show, but more importantly is the ability to explore the entire circuit for illumination of the LED. It is a fascinating search. More LED's to follow.  ;D ;D

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on February 27, 2008, 08:05:19 AM
@EMdevices and All
Quote
My mini-Tesla does the same , but it's way more stable since I'm driving it with the separate Colpitts oscillator (which has it's own frequency), but still, if I get my hand near the main resonator coil, I can "snap" the resonance from one mode to another, which is interesting

You know the human hand is the highest positively charged object in the triboelectric series. We can call "static" electricity whatever we want but that does not change the fact it is a high voltage field not unlike the one you are producing in your circuit and can effect equipment as well as have real effects in our circuits. Maybe the question we should be asking is "why" does a very positively charged object (your hand) change the frequency of your circuits---- how could a "static" field do such a thing? and is this change of frequency up or down? ;) If we consider a potential difference as an electrostatic stress in matter above or below ambient then could we consider a static field stress as a tension in matter ---- we all know what happens to a wave like motion applied to a rope when we increase the tension--- the speed of the wave in the rope increases.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 27, 2008, 04:57:19 PM
For 99.9% of watchers on this thread, please just ignore this post. The circuit diagram will have no meaning except to a few working with VLT SEC circuits and is only being placed here for ease in distribution and will not be explained. Nothing sinister or hidden from the group, just of interest to only a few so its being added to the thread. No questions please, don't want a wild thread again when all is somewhat calm.

Interesting things off in the wings, so come back now and then.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 28, 2008, 12:37:55 AM
@All
The little light show I promised. The circuit is drawing 72.0ma at 20.25VDC. There are five LED's in the loop four of which are emitting full intensity light in the visible spectrum and the fifth, ha ha,  ;D is emitting infrared wavelengths at full intensity. My eye's just refuse to be tuned to these wavelengths so I can't see squat emitting from the device but an infrared detector sheet showed the deal. Now it's getting good!  8) 8) 8)

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on February 28, 2008, 03:04:27 AM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Rosphere on February 28, 2008, 01:25:55 PM
Loki67671,

Thank you for the clear photos of your nice work.  :)

My eye's just refuse to be tuned to these wavelengths so I can't see squat emitting from the device but an infrared detector sheet showed the deal. Now it's getting good!  8) 8) 8)

You're kidding!?  :o  I wonder how many builders had given-up on an idea because they could not detect what was happening with their own eyes:  "Nothing from the LED.  Another waste of time.  Moving right along."

Thanks for sharing.  Who wants to search: "infrared detector sheet?"

I'm off to work now.  >:( :-\ 8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: abassign on February 28, 2008, 04:09:05 PM
@Loki67671

Is the job interesting, but how much does it absorb the circuit ?
Which are the characteristics of the LEDs ?
Have you been able to calculate the efficiency ?

best regards
Adriano
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on February 29, 2008, 09:31:12 AM
Well done Loki,
but with about 1.5 Watts input could you be able to light
some more LEDs much brighter ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on February 29, 2008, 01:16:39 PM
Loki67671,

Thank you for the clear photos of your nice work.  :)

My eye's just refuse to be tuned to these wavelengths so I can't see squat emitting from the device but an infrared detector sheet showed the deal. Now it's getting good!  8) 8) 8)

You're kidding!?  :o  I wonder how many builders had given-up on an idea because they could not detect what was happening with their own eyes:  "Nothing from the LED.  Another waste of time.  Moving right along."

Thanks for sharing.  Who wants to search: "infrared detector sheet?"

I'm off to work now.  >:( :-\ 8)
@Rosphere
You are welcome. It is a lot of work on private budget.  :( DR. Stiffler has done a HUGE amount of work! I am attempting replication of just this little piece so far. But no matter. If I can help with technical questions or otherwise I will attempt to do so. The LED I put into this AV circuit, the third one in the series, as can be seen in the pictures, is an IR LED but it certainly does not hurt to have one or more instruments that extend the range of our senses. The Scopes, the Spectrum Analyzers, the Meters, the Detectors, AM and FM radios, other electronic devices and etc. All of these can be used to extend our senses. That is how I look at it. It is an attitude I try to maintain while working on any investigation or experiments. I am looking for the little details that will allow US, as in all of US, to move forward in our thinking of energy and how we use it. I would recommend the use of just a simple IR detector first. The best way to find one is to look for an "INFRARED SENSOR"
used to check for IR emission in the electronics service industry. Simple yet effective for determining if IR emissions are present. One can also get quite advanced with electronic sensors designed to detect and measure emissions in at wavelengths. Radio Shack used to have them under catalog part number 276-1099.  ;)

@abassign
The circuit input power at this point is, as Stephan calculated, close to 1.5 watts. The intention here has not yet been any run at the COP numbers. I am just beginning to understand this circuit for real and through personal experience with it.

The white LED's are the ultra-bright versions not the little low power guys. When measurement runs or experiments will be done I will have the data sheets for the exact devices used. These just came from the "junk bin".

Adriano the efficiencies will be calculated but I haven't quite made it there yet. Like I said I'm reproducing Dr. Stiffler's work. For now! This has taught me that I will be experimenting with this and similar anomalies for probably years to come.  8) 8)

@Stephan
Yes, of course but build two devices. One like this and the other a "conventional" LED circuit and see how many you can add to it. I have no doubts that I could keep going in my additions of LED's to the AV plug. I have no intentions, at this point, of doing that due to time constraints but your assessment is correct. It is a light show right now. My tuning is probably not quite optimum yet. We will see through doing it and measuring it. It is the ONLY way to know for yourself.  ;D ;)

Best regards

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 01, 2008, 07:20:33 AM
@All,
Some runs with additional load to observe spectrum. All 18 LED's are high current versions, 3 AV plugs in circuit. Tuning sticks are a must and preferably loooooong ones! Another neat light show. But back to business.  8) 8)

Best

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 02, 2008, 02:20:12 PM
@All,
A little tuning and tweaking plus a hell of lot of patients and we have damn near the same light output "subjective" as posted before with less than half the power input. Very strange circuit indeed. Another good weekend of experiments! Oh......did I also mention the SEC-experimenter-2. This one, I'm hoping, will allow me to explore the effects of capacitance and inductance changes and ratio's in the base tank and the subsequent system reactions as a whole.  8) 8)

Best regards,

JIM

PS. You really should build one of these and experiment with it! It's fascinating!  ;D 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on March 02, 2008, 03:25:43 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on March 02, 2008, 03:30:20 PM
Close the loop Obi1 and the force should be strong :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 02, 2008, 05:10:24 PM
Why the obsession with lighting leds? Wouldn't it make more sense to measure the voltage on the output? That would make it easier to compare with the input and to see if there is OU.

All this talk about how bright the leds are and how many are lit seems like a waste of time.

And why doesn't Stiffler allow his supposed OU device to be tested by a professional testing company?

@canam101
There is no obsession with lighting LED's. Not here! It is a convenient means of rough measure and also very interesting to observe while exploring the circuit's many, many, operational states, transitions, and generally all around strange behavior! Measurements on this output will prove to be very difficult if not completely impossible using standard equipment. Nothing is sinusoidal, the entire circuit is tuned from end to end, meaning when you just walk within a few feet of it, it detunes, let alone stick a meter in the circuit to attempt a measurement, and when I'm obtaining readings on the input power like the last runs I made 31ma @ 18.1VDC with very little if any [EDIT: subjective] decrease in the LED's intensity, I'll have some idea of where the circuit shall be tuned when I do make some efficiency or COP measurements using calorimetry. If you think measuring power is the same as or as simple as just slapping the old meter in the there you might want to start drilling for oil. Strings of LED's, or in this case, 1 wire fed loops, are cute but they don't mean shit! Using them as a tool is another completely different story. Using the method of just measuring input voltage and output voltage isn't going to cut it! Power is not voltage, power is not current either! Power is the product of the two and a real and meaningful measurement can be very difficult to obtain. I suspect the good doctor might not want the "professional" testing company to use your methods for obtaining scientific results. Build the circuit and try it! Keep in mind it develops high voltages!

Best regards,

JIM

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 02, 2008, 06:37:16 PM
@All,
Through experiment, I have managed to find a couple of spots on this one rig, the first one, they are very touchy to tune and maintain because I'm coupled with the circuit even when using the long tuning rod, that give really nice LED illumination at a much lower input power than I was using. Last run  was 31ma @ 18.1VDC resulting in 0.56 watts input driving.

This exploration of the circuit should help bring the insight and experience necessary to ATTEMPT an accurate call of what it can and cannot do! Proper exploration of a device includes things like trying to stabilize the device enough to be able to obtain repeated performance from it.

But how does one know that stabilization efforts won't stifle a particular desirable characteristic in a circuit?  ;D This is the concept that Rosphere pointed out a short while ago with the IR detectors but taken a little further.  8) Into techniques!  ::)

I can't SEE what I don't look for! In order to LOOK I have to measure in such a way as not to disturb the system, as best as one can possibly do that, using as many "senses" as possible. Else my vision is blurred :'( That means I have to understand, as best as possible, the complete system in question. In depth investigation of a complex subject like an oscillator circuit, nonlinear mixing functions, multiple complex impedances and etc. is not as simple as meters and three terminals of a circuit. 8) 8)
 
Any of you whom this may not pertain to please disregard my quality of data rants and such. Much simpler to measure voltage, yes it is! Completely erroneous readings and therefore erroneous actions, yes! Exactly! Please don't discount the skills required to make at least somewhat accurate calls of performance through meaningful measurements!

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on March 02, 2008, 07:49:14 PM
Loki,

Could you please try a light sensor attached to your oscilloscope and tell us if the light is indeed not just pulsing faster than the eye might be able to recognise ?

Regards,
Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 02, 2008, 08:54:25 PM
Loki,

Could you please try a light sensor attached to your oscilloscope and tell us if the light is indeed not just pulsing faster than the eye might be able to recognise ?

Regards,
Dean


@Dean,
I will attempt that if it looks like some stable measurement can be made there. When the circuit is in the last state shown I have to try and tune "off" while my hands and body are coupled to the circuit. The system reacts sometimes when I move an arm at 3 feet from it!  And then back out of the coupling and hope the critter stabilizes where I was trying to measure it. If not it's back in and tweak, back out and hope. Some of the states I've seen this device in while I'm coupled and actively tuning it I haven't been able to reproduce without my body being part of the field.

I will try and do that for you if it is of value and in fact I can do it. What is your suspicion here? The reverse recovery time of the 1N4148 is 4ns. I'm afraid I don't quite follow? I've used pulse width modulation and chopping techniques to control LED intensity for quite some time myself, years as a matter of fact.  ;D

Bottom line is, I'm not using LED's to measure anything "official" with anyway! This circuit is being explored with the LED's as a convenient means of CRUDE visual detection of performance while an understanding of some of it's characteristics is obtained and the "light show" is for armchairs that don't build anything except posterior cellulite and calloused fingertips. Sorry form of entertainment this is! Any attempt at efficiencies or COP calculations will be done using calorimetry, Period! You may proceed as you wish!  8) 8) 8)

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 02, 2008, 09:47:03 PM
Why the obsession with lighting leds? Wouldn't it make more sense to measure the voltage on the output? That would make it easier to compare with the input and to see if there is OU.

All this talk about how bright the leds are and how many are lit seems like a waste of time.

And why doesn't Stiffler allow his supposed OU device to be tested by a professional testing company?
@canam101

Why don't you just KISS OFF!

I do not want you on this thread, you sound like an arm chair talking head and they have no place here. Spread you rhetoric elsewhere.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on March 03, 2008, 03:40:43 AM
R.STIFFLER, THANK YOU !! for your Tolerance, alot of us out here on the arm chair  are cheering you on with tremendous appreciation for the hard and frustrating work you do  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on March 03, 2008, 03:57:58 AM
Thank you Dr. Stiffler and Loki67671  for great work.

@Loki67671
Do you see any effects on this baby when magnets are close to it? The reason being, you said "your body" is of great coupling. I wonder if magnetic fields will diminish or amplify those effects.

Thanks in advance,
Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: supersam on March 03, 2008, 04:12:01 AM
Jim,

at the risk of sounding,  erfinder'ish, without the proper background, i might add,  are you going to try to throttle the natural behavior of your circuit to fall off tune? or are you going to try and follow these apparently natural variations in the tune of the circuit?

either way i hope that you document these fluctuations in an attempt to follow there progression.  i know from experience that everything tends to run in cycles!  whether it is waves, of any type, or the universe itself.  keep up the good work and keep this in mind as you do your experiments.  who knows you might just be the first one to write it all down and document it.  how great would that be?!!!

lol
sam

ps:  i hope that you get the just of this post.   DOCUMENT!!!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on March 03, 2008, 05:01:11 AM
Something strange happened when i was trying some experiments on cold electricity, i attached 2 Photos:
1 the mini circuit, a coil and 3 LED`s  " DR. Stiffler style setup" and a resistor of 1 meg :
two of the LED's are slightly illuminating when i touch the coil with my thumb ; the circuit is grounded to water pipes.
Now i tried to come further using capacitors. The lights remain the same even shotcircuiting the capacitors
( Or taking them out like in the pix). i have no explanation .....  ??? Do our Bodies have longitudinal wave resonance?
someone knows more?

( sorry for my bad English)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on March 03, 2008, 09:22:37 PM
Loki,

Could you please try a light sensor attached to your oscilloscope and tell us if the light is indeed not just pulsing faster than the eye might be able to recognise ?

Regards,
Dean


@Dean,
I will attempt that if it looks like some stable measurement can be made there. When the circuit is in the last state shown I have to try and tune "off" while my hands and body are coupled to the circuit. The system reacts sometimes when I move an arm at 3 feet from it!  And then back out of the coupling and hope the critter stabilizes where I was trying to measure it. If not it's back in and tweak, back out and hope. Some of the states I've seen this device in while I'm coupled and actively tuning it I haven't been able to reproduce without my body being part of the field.

I will try and do that for you if it is of value and in fact I can do it. What is your suspicion here? The reverse recovery time of the 1N4148 is 4ns. I'm afraid I don't quite follow? I've used pulse width modulation and chopping techniques to control LED intensity for quite some time myself, years as a matter of fact.  ;D

Bottom line is, I'm not using LED's to measure anything "official" with anyway! This circuit is being explored with the LED's as a convenient means of CRUDE visual detection of performance while an understanding of some of it's characteristics is obtained and the "light show" is for armchairs that don't build anything except posterior cellulite and calloused fingertips. Sorry form of entertainment this is! Any attempt at efficiencies or COP calculations will be done using calorimetry, Period! You may proceed as you wish!  8) 8) 8)

Best regards,

JIM

.
Agreed, I was one of the first to suggest that this circuit could best be evaluated via calorimetry.
It was not very well received and I can imagine losses that would not be accounted for though it should be enough to indicate whether intercepting/measuring all em emanations is worth while.

.02

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 04, 2008, 03:16:45 AM
@All,
1. Documentation is occurring.
2. Experiments are being planned.
3. I don't know if I'll stick magnets into this guy just yet. We shall see!
4. The lights are a load and tool!
5. Resistors make heat!
6. Calorimetry will be used to test the circuit for real energy analysis.

Thanks for all the encouragement and comradere! It is a shitload of work but I hope worth it! I encourage other researchers to investigate this!
aluka is looking! Many others too! Good job! Keep at it! Dean, no smoke and mirrors here buddy. Don't have the time or patients anymore!

More goodies to come.  8) 8)

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 08, 2008, 12:02:55 AM
POSTING TO THIS SITE IS A PAIN IN THE ASS!
Nothing like typing for significant amounts of time just so it can fly off, to who knows where, in the middle of an upload and be lost! SHIT!

I'm working on the calorimeter for the lab but I can't post the pdf of the design because it's too large. I would have liked to have a peer review of the design but I'm going to begin building this weekend so we move forward. I will upload the photographs when I have made some progress. I also have some software work to do so I'm going to be a busy puppy.  ;)

Best regards,

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 08, 2008, 12:54:42 AM
Something strange happened when i was trying some experiments on cold electricity, i attached 2 Photos:
1 the mini circuit, a coil and 3 LED`s  " DR. Stiffler style setup" and a resistor of 1 meg :
two of the LED's are slightly illuminating when i touch the coil with my thumb ; the circuit is grounded to water pipes.
Now i tried to come further using capacitors. The lights remain the same even shotcircuiting the capacitors
( Or taking them out like in the pix). i have no explanation .....  ??? Do our Bodies have longitudinal wave resonance?
someone knows more?

( sorry for my bad English)

@aluka,
I have seen LED's do this same thing and questioned it myself. Mainstream EE says it's leakage current. I'm paranoid anytime my body is providing current so........ ;D The fact is the LED's illuminate very slightly and I have to wonder if it's not just a trait of the LED itself? Anyone that has worked with electronic amplifiers knows the capacitance of the human body couples a mean 60HZ/50HZ line hum from ambient into the circuit resulting in a huge hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! out of the speakers. Is that enough to turn on the LED's at the level photographed? I don't know. Is that voltage level coupled by you through the inductor measureable? Does the level change when you stick a meter or other probe into the circuit? Hard to tell. Interesting observation non-the-less! Keep poking at it but I would be careful with your body and the water pipes unless you are sure of the building electrical system and particularly it's grounding. Just a friendly observation if I may? Try gathering some measurements of the effect you show and also document the dynamics of trying to measure it please. I would be interested to know.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on March 08, 2008, 02:35:28 AM
@ jim

Thank you for your response, first of all. " Mainstream EE says it's leakage current" ? Ok, i am a Sound engineer for more than 20 years, but if something leaks... it means  there is some other potential or force anywhere, but where ? In between me and ground? There is a voltage always. If it is the Hum as you say there must be a way to amplify it. I will hang on to this.
Thank you  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 08, 2008, 02:22:50 PM
@All
In the last week I was able to read an article and a paper by two different psychologists that both made a similar statement, which seemed to be common knowledge or matter of fact knowledge to them. I guess I must be out of the loop because this statement seemed profound 'to me'. Not wanting to copy their words I think I can say it in my own so it will not lose meaning.

"We believe what we already know and can be slow or outright reject what we don't know"

So where is or creativity, inventiveness and so called thirst for knowledge ? Maybe this view of how we view new things that challenge the beliefs we already have, explains much that takes place. Could it be more 'US' and less about money, oil and so called MIB's? Interesting to look at people in this light.

I have not posted for awhile, except for the "Talking Heads", and will not be with much substance. It appears I have found a publisher that does and is willing to publish my work, of which one is now called a 'Theory', being supported by  the mathematics and experimental results.

I will therefore move to the requirement of an NDA in order to protect my publisher and myself from my publisher.

As you all should be aware I hate "Arm chair, talking heads" and those that seem to follow my new found information, "Believe only what you already know".

Been one hell of a ride, but it was the wrong road to take, old story, to many potholes causing to much damage.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slapper on March 08, 2008, 05:19:12 PM
Good luck Ron:

You deserve much success from your endeavor as I have learned a great deal
from my arm chair and the exchanges between you and the thread contributors.

I will be looking forward to your hard earned published works.

Thank you and take care.

nap
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on March 08, 2008, 07:17:29 PM
DR. Stiffler   good luck  and somehow I think this road will be less bumpy next time  you are a great man   please look in from time to time  there is something in the air   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 13, 2008, 10:57:20 AM
Thank you Dr. Stiffler and Loki67671  for great work.

@Loki67671
Do you see any effects on this baby when magnets are close to it? The reason being, you said "your body" is of great coupling. I wonder if magnetic fields will diminish or amplify those effects.

Thanks in advance,
Fausto.

@Fausto
Magnets had very little if any effect that I detected. I tried it. The changes in the circuit operation by my body capacitance are fairly inconsistent so detecting anything subtle would require a ton more effort. Perhaps there is and I haven't seen it yet. I will keep my "eye's" open.  ::) Magnets are always close by anyway just to check with. Good idea Fausto.

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 24, 2008, 04:03:40 PM
Well after a small fire in the labs computer room and loss of six machines, we are back. Thanks to the HD's not getting smoked we recovered much faster than first thought anyway some new info for those still around.

Do we need the large SEC coil at all to make the demon work for us? No! as it turns out, a proper adjustment of capacities and it can all be done with a 2.4cm X 2.5cm square of Cu. In fact this new design will perform in a more stable way that the large or medium coil versions.

Now does SEC have anything to do with Stan Meyer and his electrolysis?, could be, some works has shown something very interesting.

Documentation is not here yet, but the pictures are loaded to the SS site default page. If the world DNS sites don't have us back yet, do direct to the IP.

A lot more to come of course, things are getting better and better and more stable is the key word
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on March 24, 2008, 04:18:08 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D you have brightened the place right up DR thanks    Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on March 25, 2008, 05:38:29 PM
I think this area is highly worth investigation. Thank you to all for your hard work.   I also believe calorimetry is probably best way to make an evaluation.


I will be happy to assist in peer review.


Good luck to all
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 25, 2008, 11:34:49 PM
All,
I'm still working at it but now I'm burning my hands on occasion.  ;D  I'm building a calorimeter but it doesn't look like we can post much of shit for pictures any more. What happened? Must be chewing up too much bandwidth or storage space. Whatever! In any case I'm following this one out until the end. Very cool stuff! Once again I highly encourage other researchers to look into this. I will be moving into some heat measurements soon. I just scored on a 70's vintage Motorola police radio and raped it.  8) The parts like this just cannot be purchased any more unless you are headed to the Ham-Fest in Dayton this year  ;) or a surplus store. I now have three of these units built and I'm starting to experiment with additional loads. Certainly more to follow and definitely the calorimeter run results but it will be a little while before I get to that point. Lots and lots of work.
P.S. If you think my earlier pictures were shit you should see them smashed down below 50Kb. Piss on that!

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on March 26, 2008, 12:00:46 AM
JIM Stephan has some other way to post pics with a link also Feynman knows this  appreciate your work   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on March 26, 2008, 12:53:38 AM
Loki:  one thing I do is upload pics to http://imageshack.us

Then go to the bottom of the screen at imageshack and paste the "direct link to image".

Then you can use this link as an insert on the board simply by clicking the "picture" icon then putting the imageshack link in its place.  Msg me if you need more nfo. 

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 27, 2008, 07:42:34 PM
It does get stranger as time goes by. In prep for my paper I had a thought of a different way to connect the output of a SEC Exciter. Many have already connected multiple plugs and loads to a single output, but I am not aware of anyone chaining them. Does not make much sense at first and thought it would not work or at least the successive stages would get dimmer and dimmer  ???

Guess one should never guess. ;)

The link below is to a test running three LED stages, each with three LED's in series with the last stage a Neon. Now what is so interesting here is that the first three stages have a total voltage across the LEDs of approx;
9.6 volts and the final stage with the Neon has a voltage of 86 volts. Each stage is connected with a single inductor, so each stage is a complete AV plug fed by the proceeding plug.

@plengo, you should like this one.

www.stifflerscientific.com/images/chain.gif

If anyone tries this, would like to hear about it....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on March 27, 2008, 11:18:03 PM
POSTING TO THIS SITE IS A PAIN IN THE ASS!
Nothing like typing for significant amounts of time just so it can fly off, to who knows where, in the middle of an upload and be lost! SHIT!

If its a little laggy, after typing out your comment, highlight the text and use ctrl+c to copy it.  If when you submit the post and it doesn't go through, you can just paste it into another post.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on March 28, 2008, 01:17:55 AM
@Dr Stiffler,

this is absolutely fenomenal. I am taking my stuff out and starting again those experiments.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 28, 2008, 01:58:48 AM
@Dr Stiffler,

this is absolutely fenomenal. I am taking my stuff out and starting again those experiments.

Fausto.
@plengo
I Will Post a diagram So you know What driver to use and how to Wire The String. I with see if The Tiff works, if Not Then Tomorrow.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 28, 2008, 02:14:31 AM
@plengo

Lets See if this Loads.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 28, 2008, 02:17:01 AM
@Dr Stiffler et. al.
I do believe I'm with you also.  ;D I would also very much like to see if I transcribed from the photo to schematic correctly.  ;D This weekend should be fun! I should take a picture of my middle finger tip on the left hand.  ;) I'm surprised it didn't smoke.  ::) In any case I'm definitely making current flow in these AV plugs. Still amazing to operate every time I fire up.  8) 8) 8)

Best regards,

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: JustMe on March 28, 2008, 02:19:21 AM
Converted to a web friendly gif...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on March 28, 2008, 03:39:45 AM
@Dr. Stiffler,

Thank you. This weekend will be very FUN!!!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 29, 2008, 06:35:10 PM
Maybe it is possible to get WORK from a SEC Exciter  :)

This video is not yet indexed but you can see a grainy one here;

http://www.youtube.com/v/RCSXHLe_3wo&hl=en

 8)

It is indexed now, look up MRH2O2 and sort by date. its SEC#10
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 29, 2008, 10:33:03 PM
All
Very cool video!  ;D

Doc,
Excellent!

Best

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Dansway on March 29, 2008, 10:49:37 PM
@RStiffler,

Nice work!

Is there any chance you could take a nice big pic of your most recent setup and label each part etc?

Thanks so much for sharing!

Regards,

~D

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 29, 2008, 11:29:08 PM
@RStiffler,

Nice work!

Is there any chance you could take a nice big pic of your most recent setup and label each part etc?

Thanks so much for sharing!

Regards,

~D


For what purpose? The Exciter is well documented in this thread and on my web site. The chain diagram for just LED's is a page back. Should be a 10 minute duplication.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 30, 2008, 05:19:40 PM
Yes indeed I am so happy with all the negative comment on the latest video, thanks world.

The biggest problem is no one thinks that little motor is doing any work (with the small plastic on top), Okay I will best you all by 10, try to convince someone that in this video the motor is not working its little butt off.

http://www.youtube.com/v/j9Y2VpRCSLE&hl=en

Once its indexed search for MRH2O2 to see it in a better format.

Thanks to all the positive people (few as you are).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on March 30, 2008, 09:49:29 PM
This is amazing!  Absolute breakthrough!

Thank you for the videos!


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on March 30, 2008, 10:10:21 PM
Great new progress , Doc !

How many milliWatts do you put into the driver circuit ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on March 30, 2008, 10:49:03 PM
Hi Doc,

Regarding your latest SEC chain schematic, it's kinda hard to read those values. Is that a 10mH or 10uH choke there. I presume from your #10 video it's the bigger coil you wound yourself, while the 22uH ones are the standard store bought?

Also the variable coil, could you please give us more details on that as well, how many turns, wire AWG, diameters etc?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on March 30, 2008, 11:10:41 PM
My first trial did not work as expected. I could have as many as 30 LEDs lit but no motor neither a neon. I have to work more on the chokes and try different values.

So far I could run it using about 19 to 150ma input from 10v to 20v. It is very sensitive to the touch which tells me I am in the wrong path.

I guess it would be good if Dr. Stiffler could give more details in the values and how the choke is built.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on March 31, 2008, 12:12:45 AM
Hello again Doc,

Here's my first attempt at SEC chain.tif replication. Because I did not have clear indication of some values I took some creative freedoms. ;)

My chokes are: gray ~1.2uH (should be 10mH?), purple ~50uH (should be 22uH). The voltage with a "sweet spot" where NE2 lights up is ~7.76V. The variable coil is just something I had handy so I wound 26 AWG on it as far as it would go. Transistor is MPSA05...

This circuit appear to be creating multi-wave interference across the spectrum because I can hear it in my computer speakers. The scope connected before the first purple choke shows ~7.6MHz frequency. If I touch the AV plug bridge the NE2 goes off but I guess that normal, no?
Otherwise I can bring my fingers near the components without any influence...

(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4570/amigosecchain1sl4.jpg)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on March 31, 2008, 12:36:06 AM
@All,
I have the chains burning bright and my motor spinning too. Not as impressive as the DOC's but I'm getting there. Still much work and exploration to do but when I get the motor running it has real torque not some easily stalled wimpy spin. Very cool stuff! 1 wire power to real motors! Very cool indeed!

15.56 VDC at approx 38ma power input, 1 small motor on AV-1 chained into AV-2 through 22uH choke, AV-2 has 3 color LED's, chained into AV-3 through another 22uH choke that contains 6 white LED's, chained into AV-4 through another 22uH choke that contains 4 white LED's and a IR LED. All of them are illuminated very bright! I have to work on my test equipment probes some more!  ;D
 

@Dr. Stiffler,
Excellent work again sir! Excellent!

Best regards,

P.S. I told you the weekend was going to be FUN! SWEEEEET!

JIM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on March 31, 2008, 01:06:04 AM
Does anyone have a scope trace coming out of the SEC exciter?

Nevermind, found em!

EDIT:  Okay, I gotta replicate this!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 31, 2008, 01:57:35 AM
Does anyone have a scope trace coming out of the SEC exciter?

Nevermind, found em!

EDIT:  Okay, I gotta replicate this!

@Feynman
@All

Please do not waste your time with trying to build one of theses circuits based on any of the scope traces. The picture is found in SA views of the Stiffler Exciter. The exciter will generate a broadband signal of over 400MHz in width with peaks about every 5MHz. The low end starts about 195KHz. One of the best jammers in simplicity you could ask for.

The greatest signal will be found around 13.6MHz, give or take a few hundred thousand.

The circuits on vid 10 and 10.1 uses four stages, UHF, VHF, HF and LF. The energy cohered in each stage is used by the load in that stage. In this way the broad bandwidth is utilized.

The 10 and 20uH chokes are documented and are from JameCo. The base coil is hand would and I will get the specks up in a day or two.

This configuration is not for running large numbers of LEDs or motors or neons. It was designed to run what was shown, otherwise values need to be adjusted to insure the proper spectral spread for the power node access.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on March 31, 2008, 02:05:59 AM
Well after my first failure I decided to try it again but this time with more diligence. I succeded but without the motor spining. I have a 3v 250ma motor.

Input voltage is good from 15v to 20v, from 98ma to 117ma input current. Many chained av plugs each with 3 LEDs and one of them with a neon bulb. All pretty good lit, not fully but very good. The neon fainly lit. Burn fingers to the touch via skin effect.

Video at (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK7CY_lOLRk).

Scope picture is 10x probe with 5v division and with .1 micro seconds time division. Attaching the probe with the system running does not affect the behavior as long as the probe is on 10x.

Good job Dr. Stiffler.

Fausto.

ps: I made it in two bread-boards. One is the driver and the other obsviously is the LEDs and in the future the motor. This way is very clear the AV plug functionality. (The black wire on the left)P.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 31, 2008, 02:46:28 AM
Well after my first failure I decided to try it again but this time with more diligence. I succeded but without the motor spining. I have a 3v 250ma motor.

Input voltage is good from 15v to 20v, from 98ma to 117ma input current. Many chained av plugs each with 3 LEDs and one of them with a neon bulb. All pretty good lit, not fully but very good. The neon fainly lit. Burn fingers to the touch via skin effect.

Video at (soon to be posted).

Scope picture is 10x probe with 5v division and with .1 micro seconds time division. Attaching the probe with the system running does not affect the behavior as long as the probe is on 10x.

Good job Dr. Stiffler.

Fausto.
@plengo

Great job. The 250ma motor may be a bit stiff here. If you could find one <100ma.

The tuning must be right for the motor to run. The leds will run at many different tuning peaks, but the motor, only one. That base 400pf cap an variable coil are key to tuning. Also there can be a voltage (input) sensitivity, dependent on the transistor. The range of 15-18 is ideal. Try tuning for motor as you move from 15-18 one volt at a time. Try to configure the circuit as a chain, no grouping or zigzag layout. If one stage feeds back into another two much or out of phase, things don't work right. Four stages, motor and three led stages (3) leds to a stage, series across the plug.

My vid circuit with the motor is 20ma@18v, chain connected or not.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on March 31, 2008, 04:25:06 AM
Hi Ron,
if you change the big white wire from
the circuit to the AV plug-motor,
do you have to retune then the circuit ?

What, if you make this wire severals meters long ?
Still this much power in the motor and LEDs ?
Are these standing waves in all the wires + AV-plugs ?

Reminds me of pulling a whip and the whip tail tip end makes
a sonic boom cause it moves faster than the sound barrier.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on March 31, 2008, 04:28:16 AM
P.S: Can you move and scale this circuit somehow up into the 5 to 10 Watts
range to measure better the power out versus in ranges ?

In the milliWatts range it is hard to measure the overunity COP.

@Plengo,
nice replication !
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on March 31, 2008, 04:52:51 AM
One more photo before calling it a night - found a nice small motor from the old CD ROM drive (the tray loading motor) which seems to be perfect for this application. You can see the motor spinning in the lower portion of the image. Still running at 1/2 the voltage Doc suggests to use, I suppose it has something to do with the components I used:

(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/6826/amigosecchain2wl5.jpg)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lakes on March 31, 2008, 11:11:45 AM
I`ve been following this tread on and off for a while now, while this is very impressive work, driving a load with one wire, what would be the practical applications?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on March 31, 2008, 12:12:33 PM
There exists one photo where Prof. Avramenko already lights up a 1 KWatts incandescant bulb
with 1 tiny small diameter wire, so it must be possible to transmit a lot of power via this way without much
losses.

The idea with the SEC is of course to also get overunity COPs.

The question still remains, how long the wire could be andif it has to be retuned
to the length of the wire so that standing waves can exist on this wire or
if the frequency and the wire length do not depend on each other...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 31, 2008, 02:18:01 PM
I`ve been following this tread on and off for a while now, while this is very impressive work, driving a load with one wire, what would be the practical applications?

You don't see an advantage?

Well lets see, for one you cut wiring copper costs to 1/2, I that would be enough in itself, right? Of course if you have copper stocks you might not want to see it.

@All
The rf issue is moot. The single wire can be run innside a grounded conduit and still run.

@Stephan
The feed wire length change does not require retuning. Load changes do, but this is offset simply by auto tuning in a similar way to PLL, the electronics is no more complicated than current grid phase sync now being done to match generators.

@Amigo
Great, great job.

@Amigo, Loki, Plengo

Thanks so much for the fast professional replications, do we now move forward???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 31, 2008, 02:18:09 PM
I`ve been following this tread on and off for a while now, while this is very impressive work, driving a load with one wire, what would be the practical applications?

You don't see an advantage?

Well lets see, for one you cut wiring copper costs to 1/2, I that would be enough in itself, right? Of course if you have copper stocks you might not want to see it.

@All
The rf issue is moot. The single wire can be run innside a grounded conduit and still run.

@Stephan
The feed wire length change does not require retuning. Load changes do, but this is offset simply by auto tuning in a similar way to PLL, the electronics is no more complicated than current grid phase sync now being done to match generators.

@Amigo
Great, great job.

@Amigo, Loki, Plengo

Thanks so much for the fast professional replications, do we now move forward???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 31, 2008, 06:36:09 PM
The circuit diagram to go with video 10 and 10.1

*The base coil depends on the transistor and its hfe as well as the loading, so a wide range is shown and is selected for the circuit.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on March 31, 2008, 07:35:38 PM
DR STIFFLER   and others  FOWARD PLEASE!!   absolutely amazing    thankyou for this privilege Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on March 31, 2008, 09:38:33 PM
I GIVE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The site goes away on time outs and will not accept my photos

If anyone is interested in capacitive electrolysis using a SEC Exciter, email me at stiffler scientific.

Bad deal here................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: broli on March 31, 2008, 10:09:34 PM
This forum needs some serious cleaning by a professional hand, the overall design and messyness is beyond this world...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 01, 2008, 02:27:41 AM
Hi Doc,

Thanks for the encouragement.

I do not mind moving forward, though I still need to make a trip to the electronics store (hopefully tomorrow) and get the right components (chokes and transistor) so that I'm on par with your reference design. :)

Could we please stay here though rather than going "underground". I believe that by posting our replications here we encourage others to join in. I also find it easier to communicate through a forum than through an email because it is accessible from any computer, at least for this purpose.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 01, 2008, 02:31:54 AM
Regarding this forum, I agree that this is getting bad and I am not sure why Stefan is so stubborn about it. I offered him help to switch to vBulletin which I believe is a better software. Further more I wanted to organize a fund raiser to cover the cost of purchasing a permanent license of vBulletin, to no avail.

There are so many sites with forums out there and those that work have no activity yet this one doesn't work well but plenty of activity...do I really need to start my own site with a forum to make things right?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 01, 2008, 02:46:02 AM
AMIGO please try again with stephan this is the best to keep it on the forum  your idea with funds  count me in   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 02:51:59 AM
@Amigo

Not going underground, just very selective here, I really don't have the 10-15min to load this site, make two or more attempts for a post and it either gets lost or makes me go back and edit the photo's now.

Having my site support my photo's and require people to jump from here to there does not make sense either. It is time I think to explore new options, as you all know, there is also to damn much noise here and that gets in the way.

Hey, we can get it done. Isn't change just a fact of life?

I don't think you have interest in HHO anyway, do you?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 01, 2008, 03:06:08 AM
Doc,
If we can post to this damned forum, I say we move forward!  8) I have cleaned up my breadboards and barring the need to order supplies and materials am ready to try for replication, and experimentation of course  ;D , as we move forward. Electrolysis? It has been my experience that separation of H and O and handling the stuff correctly can be tricky.  ::) I have not been very successful at it, but it did make a hell of a fire!  :P Hydrogen is mighty impressive stuff and my training extent with it is summed up in balloons filled from a hydrochloric acid reaction with zinc. Fly the balloon with a burning string and BOOOM! Hydrogen has a very impressive explosion! Much respect! Don't know if I'd do it in the house just yet.  ;D But I'm willing to learn.

Best regards

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 01, 2008, 03:18:35 AM
DR STIFFLER 67000 + people have looked in on your thread here a lot  of interest !!!!!! please don't let the few  nay sayer's  represent the MANY  PLEASE let AMIGO try to fix this with Stephan this is WAY to important  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 03:21:49 AM
Doc,
If we can post to this damned forum, I say we move forward!  8) I have cleaned up my breadboards and barring the need to order supplies and materials am ready to try for replication, and experimentation of course  ;D , as we move forward. Electrolysis? It has been my experience that separation of H and O and handling the stuff correctly can be tricky.  ::) I have not been very successful at it, but it did make a hell of a fire!  :P Hydrogen is mighty impressive stuff and my training extent with it is summed up in balloons filled from a hydrochloric acid reaction with zinc. Fly the balloon with a burning string and BOOOM! Hydrogen has a very impressive explosion! Much respect! Don't know if I'd do it in the house just yet.  ;D But I'm willing to learn.

Best regards

Jim
I don't think 99% of the people on this thread are into HHO and that is why I ask for email. If there are people that want to see how SEC works here, maybe I can setup a Google group just for it. It is not something I feel just any EE or experimenter should get into. The stuff is nasty and I speak from some really scary explosions where I actually started to count my fingers after realizing I was still alive. Now I feel its part of the family (like a snake).

No this would not be the same group and I do not want it here, the noise from the HHO group is not wanted, I want to get something done like we JUST DID! Within 24 hours we had three reps here and five associate reps, this is progress, YES?

Wonder if there is another site even for this? Loading to YouTube is faster.........................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 03:34:22 AM
DR STIFFLER 67000 + people have looked in on your thread here a lot  of interest !!!!!! please don't let the few  nay sayer's  represent the MANY  PLEASE let AMIGO try to fix this with Stephan this is WAY to important  Chet
Yes I know this, Yet even fixing the problems that exist does not allow me to exclude the noise from the thread. A few noise spikes and everyone is set back for days if not longer not to mention I have zero respect for idiots. So problems will still exist.

Anyway the last 48 hours was great, a few jumped in and did the work and made it work.... Now we need to replacate a few other things and the stage is set fro some good things. I just refuse to release until I have replication support.

Oh well, no body said life in this area was easy, they just said only a fool treads.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 01, 2008, 03:46:56 AM
DR STIFFLER I appreciate how dangerous this can be {not for the timid] Im sure you will do the right thing for your research  I am completely stupified by this[amazed]  and happen to love an open forum venue   the results speak for themselves 24hrs 3+ validations    whatever you decide to do please keep the ones left behind informed  it is VERY important to alot of us on the armchair trying to learn thanx   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 01, 2008, 03:47:53 AM
Hello,

I can't say I really want to do the water electrolysis in present conditions. I live on the top floor of an apartment building and that makes it quite inconvenient to do anything beyond pure electronics (I also doubt my girlfriend would appreciate hazardous potential of Hydrogen and Oxygen gases :) ).

I wish I had a real shop with instruments, machines and space above all, but I don't so I have to be happy with what I got which means if SEC moves in HHO direction I'll fall behind...though I will still follow the developments.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 01, 2008, 03:53:47 AM
AMIGO theres no falling behind in RESEARCH  I /WE need you     are you in USA?  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on April 01, 2008, 04:08:47 AM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 04:12:15 AM
@All

Last post for the night, but need to tell where SEC is.

SEC is an energy provider, just so happens the window is through the AV Plug an a broad spectrum excitation.

I have three main directions;

1) Work where COP>1, this can be light or mechanical such as the motor
2) Direct HEAT produuction, COP>1
3) HHO production, COP>1
?) Cooling (this is a whole story in itself)

No all this things are impossible, Right?

We (after what was just done) are poised to replicate and prove #1, next is #2, with the same group, could show this over night. For #3, a different group, but using SEC.

#3 I am not sure on, but may be close.

To prove the ones that can be proven will require all to follow a precise set of controls.

So there it is.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 01, 2008, 04:18:31 AM
DR your are in charge  you have an army  I know you will use it wisely Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 01, 2008, 05:35:12 AM
To be honest, my interests are far and wide;

I would like to see a source of energy that does not depend on current options in use around the World, but something that you can plug into and forget about it. Having said that I'm obsessed with immediate results and direct application - if I don't see it (at least in my mind's eye) I don't bother, there's just so much to be done and so little time.
That's why I like where Dr. Stiffler appears to be headed. With his designs I can sit down and work it out immediately (I do not claim I understand everything or anything, but replication is the first step towards understanding, at least for me).

Also, I have a great urge to work in, and have been researching for a while, the field of alternative medicine. Not sure why, perhaps because I think we need to heal the people along the way. We have all been severely affected by improper nutrition, bad environment and by other artificial means. Therefore, we need to "fix" ourselves if we are to continue to live and explore our potential all the way.

Because I know that everything in the Universe is connected in some way, me being interested in SEC must have a purpose, to whatever end. So I'll stick around for the ride, for the time being... :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: HopeForHumanity on April 01, 2008, 07:19:48 AM
This thread is always refreshing after all the tpu stuff. This project has been going steady for years, and has not slowed in progress. Most inventions on this forum die out after a while, but this is truly dedicated. I have 100% trust in you doctor.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 01, 2008, 12:42:22 PM
@All
Everyone who is supporting this, Thank you!

@Those doing it!
Thank you even more!

@DOC
I said it before, YOU ARE THE MAN!

I got some awesome freaking torque out of this little motor in the wee hours of this morning! Sleep has never been such a fleeting thing.  8) 8) 8) Build and learn. Build and learn. As a old favorite band of mine used to say "Get your motor running". Sorry but I'm done with the pix to this site. There will be another way and I have to invest in a camera worth a shit, maybe a video device....Hmmmmm! We'll see what Dayton has.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 01:50:37 PM
So it all boils down to the Avramenko plug,  ingenious thing isn't it  :)

Thanks for the videos Doc, very good that you tried a motor,   How much power are you supplying into the circuit?  Can you measure it?

EM
@EMdevices

*So it all boils down to the Avramenko plug,  ingenious thing isn't it  :)

Is this a surprise?

*you measure it?

No I can not, just not setup for this, I have seen it done and understand the hows and whys. I was hoping someone like 'you' could propose a method that the replicators could do without major cost or time investment??

Seem to me that the community has as much trouble in this measurement area as is found in what they accept as valid input/output in a circuit. We are open for contribution here?

Also open for suggestions on simpler way of confirming heat excess. Will allow error factor of up to 50% as expected result will be well into 300%.

So how can you help in a way that replicators can use to show what they have?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 03:28:22 PM
A closed Google Group is now setup for SEC Capacitive Electrolysis, those that have already sent me an email should be receiving an invitation soon.

Thanks gentleman.....


http://groups.google.com/group/sec-capacitive-electrolysis?hl=en
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on April 01, 2008, 04:32:31 PM
*removed*   EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 05:09:21 PM
Doc,  I was talking about measuring the INPUT power,  as in V x I.  Stefan asked the same question.

So, are you still using your input power filter board, the one you showed in the videos?    (I think you showed operation from 24 Volts, and then you showed  a series of resistors , for 1 ohm equivalent,  so what's the voltage across these?)


But,   if you want to measure the power OUTPUT of the motor,  just take a simple reading of DC volts at the motor terminals, while fed by RF (ignore the RF ripple),  and also measure it's RPM (you can get away with just the RPM, so maybe forget about the voltage if it's a messy waveform).     Then you can do a comparative analysis on the motor, and feed it with DC from a variable voltage supply, and set the voltage to what you had before and see if the RPM is the same,  it should be pretty close.  If not just make sure the RPMs are the same and the motor is positioned the same, so then we can assume the power disipation is equivalent.   Then just measure the current and voltage and you have your power output to the motor.

EM
Damn, the RPM measurement, that is to simple, I did not even consider that.

Well I guess the fellows will need a way to measure RPM.

Hey group, how many can do this????

If the four of us here on OU can do it, maybe some one will take note??????????? Then we can check the Heat out.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: SwinG on April 01, 2008, 05:35:41 PM
A crude way of measuring the RPM would be to record the noisespectrum/tone from the motor when running it.
Play it back, and tune the voltage to reach the same noisespectrum/tone.

Easyer than creating a light/laser/magnetic/switch based RPM measurer.
Just a quick idea to get a fairly accurate reading. Probably woulden't hold up in court, though  :)

A headset mice and Windows "Sound Recorder" would do, I think.

SwinG
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 05:47:44 PM
This is the PITTS!

Here is the coil info I promised, but I had to put the pictures on MY site, take MY TIME to do an htm page to display then. This is silly.........

Anyway all, the coil info is at www.drstiffler.com/coils.htm

@Plengo
I left you a comment on YouTube, the right coil should help.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: JustMe on April 01, 2008, 06:23:40 PM
This is the PITTS!

Here is the coil info I promised, but I had to put the pictures on MY site, take MY TIME to do an htm page to display then. This is silly.........


The frustration with the pictures could be reduced by about 100% if they were saved optimally in the first place.  The pics referenced above are bigger than they need to be by a magnitude of 10.  Displaying a 300k gif file that should be a 30k jpg is a waste of resoures (space, bandwidth, download time) no matter whose server they are on.  As a general rule, photographs should always be saved as jpgs because this compression algorithm is optimal for the many colours and subtle gradiations of "real life'.  Diagrams, logos and other images with large blocks of solid colour on the other hand benefit greatly from gif compression. You can always tell when a file that should have been saved as a gif has been saved as a jpeg by the jpeg artifacts and fuzzy, poorly defined edges.  A good example you all might be familiar with is the main page of Free Energy News - that header should be a gif and as a result is less attractive than it could be and much larger than it needs to be.

Hope this helps. Several examples of properly compressed images of good quality and under the 50K required for this site can be found on the "Lenz Thane a Hand" thread just next door. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 01, 2008, 06:42:43 PM
@All
I have some ideas in this department but I will have test them out first. All I will say at this point is "just imagine"! Photo interrupter, or break beam, small neo and hall sensor, two small neo's and two hall sensors, two small neo's and some windings,  ;D. Nothing definitive yet but I will find something for RPM measurement. One thing to definitely consider is we all have different motors and slightly different flavors of the SEC. Dr. Stiffler, as well as I, will likely want us to come to some consensus on the test rigs for consistency and ease of comparative study. Just thinking out loud.  ;D Got to get back to the shop! Damn!

Best regards,

Jim

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 07:15:49 PM
@All
@Loki

I just finished using a CdS cell with 47K in series with a 0.005uF across it powered by 12vdc. Placed in a black paper tube and connected the scope across it. Works very well. Even works with my wing and ambient light, although a cardboard disk with a hole on the outer edge may work better than my wing, trying that next.

*As far as pictures, come on time is time no matter if you allocate it pulling a picture into a photo editor or having to write support htm. No problem, will just start shifting to my site and you all can jump back and forth :-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 07:48:48 PM
@All

Looking for a motor, no problem, it runs a cooling fan just fine.

CBE 12V 160mA, brushless

See the picture; stifflerscientific.com/images/bigfan01.gif
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 01, 2008, 08:05:14 PM
Fantastic to hear Dr. Stiffler

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 08:53:09 PM
Another short video on YouTube.

Not indexed yet, but when it is find with key of MRH2O2

Enjoy.............
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 01, 2008, 09:20:02 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,

I just ordered the forms for the custom coils, should come soon and I will retry the experiment with my new 10 motors.
Your message to youtube did not go through but I guess it is ok because I can see in your page your explanation in how to make the coil.

Thanks again.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 09:32:26 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,

I just ordered the forms for the custom coils, should come soon and I will retry the experiment with my new 10 motors.
Your message to youtube did not go through but I guess it is ok because I can see in your page your explanation in how to make the coil.

Thanks again.

Fausto.
@plengo

Strange about the message, but here it is again.

The scope does indeed load the circuit, that is why your current jumped from 91mA to 117mA when you took the probe off. If you attach anything to the circuit, collector, base and indeed load you must re-tune.
Your currents were way to high, this is because you were still on the edge of correct operational point. I so hate to see people always having to buy additional components, but it is so hard to cover every possible part someone might try and use.

All in all it was a great job, but no COP>1, that current must come down and the transistor will only be barely warm to the touch (without heat sink). Yet a great step and much appreciated.

@All the short video is now indexed....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 01, 2008, 09:59:16 PM
@Dr Stiffler

Wow at the new video!    Have you measured COP?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 01, 2008, 10:30:23 PM
@Dr Stiffler

Wow at the new video!    Have you measured COP?

Yes I have.

I no longer feel I should make claims, that is what the replicators should do to either support or put down what I have claimed in the past from SEC circuits.

Some one need to replicate, measure and stick their neck out, mine is far to short now, kind of feel like a turtle :-)

The motor need to be explored by others, I have been there done that, next is the proof of excess heat, again I will provide a path, but no more claims from me.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 01, 2008, 10:41:44 PM
You got it Doc!  Replications on the way from Free Energy Group  :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on April 01, 2008, 10:49:45 PM
*removed*  EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 02, 2008, 01:30:20 AM
@All

Looking for a motor, no problem, it runs a cooling fan just fine.

CBE 12V 160mA, brushless

See the picture; stifflerscientific.com/images/bigfan01.gif

YEP! I was thinking the same thing. I am removing one from a unit right after I post this.  ;)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 02, 2008, 01:33:16 AM
Wow, a whole page of posts in such a short time, excellent. :)

About measuring RPM, what's wrong with buying a laser based RPM meter. The unit I got off of eBay was very cheap and it works great, came from Hong Kong in a week's time, you just can't beat that. :)

@Dr.Stiffler,

Is the google group going to focus exclusively on the electrolysis or will it be a progression of what you listed prior (1-2-3-?) ? I'd like to sign up if it's not going to be electrolysis only, otherwise I do not think I could contribute.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 02, 2008, 02:21:55 AM
Wow, a whole page of posts in such a short time, excellent. :)

About measuring RPM, what's wrong with buying a laser based RPM meter. The unit I got off of eBay was very cheap and it works great, came from Hong Kong in a week's time, you just can't beat that. :)

@Dr.Stiffler,

Is the google group going to focus exclusively on the electrolysis or will it be a progression of what you listed prior (1-2-3-?) ? I'd like to sign up if it's not going to be electrolysis only, otherwise I do not think I could contribute.

Thanks.
@Amigo
Just electrolysis. The Excess Heat will be explored here, or from my site if this one continues to burp so much.

No, don't join if you are not into and able to work with it in a safe way. Its not something to play around with as so many fools are. Maybe that is a bit heavy and will wrangle a, few but its a fact.

Anyway you should enjoy Heat if you live in a cold or cool climate.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 02, 2008, 02:55:20 AM
Thanks, I am looking forward to both Heat and Cool (Summers are hot and humid here, or at least used to be we'll see this coming one).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 02, 2008, 07:26:26 PM
@All

Loki has tried to post this picture of his replication, but guess what................

Well I tried to get it to the mini-standard and it looked like crap, so here is a link to his success. Wonder if I get a kick back for storing images?????

*From Loki   -  www.stifflerscientific.com/images/P1180003.gif

Looks god and he is running the cooling fan
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 02, 2008, 07:27:59 PM
SECOND TRY...with a simple text post....................

@All

Loki has tried to post this picture of his replication, but guess what................

Well I tried to get it to the mini-standard and it looked like crap, so here is a link to his success. Wonder if I get a kick back for storing images?????

*From Loki   -  www.stifflerscientific.com/images/P1180003.gif

Looks god and he is running the cooling fan
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 02, 2008, 07:56:05 PM
@ALL - HHO interested people

Using a SEC Driver in electrolysis, a lab test that should be of interest.

YouTube, now being indexed, "Spatial Energy Coherence - Electrolysis #1" or key MRH2O2
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 02, 2008, 08:38:23 PM
Peek at new HHO video here, guess YT is slow today

http://www.youtube.com/v/k1pJEz0YGlQ&hl=en
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 02, 2008, 09:44:39 PM
Holy smokes!  What is going on in that cell?  How are you determining the gas product(s) ?

2 H2O(l) -> 2 H2(g) + O2(g)      ian/koen are you reading this?

Where is the oxygen going?    :o :o  ;D
EDIT: are there any deposits on the bolt?

EDIT: Wow...
Quote
Electrolysis of pure water is very slow, and can only occur due to the self-ionization of water. Pure water has an electrical conductivity about one millionth that of seawater. It is sped up dramatically by adding an electrolyte (such as a salt, an acid or a base).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 02, 2008, 11:17:55 PM
DR STIFFLER  this is amazing one splayed wire in pure water with that [what]power? Stephan you gotta make the DOC happy here     Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 02, 2008, 11:38:27 PM
Holy smokes!  What is going on in that cell?  How are you determining the gas product(s) ?

2 H2O(l) -> 2 H2(g) + O2(g)      ian/koen are you reading this?

Where is the oxygen going?    :o :o  ;D
EDIT: are there any deposits on the bolt?

EDIT: Wow...
Quote
Electrolysis of pure water is very slow, and can only occur due to the self-ionization of water. Pure water has an electrical conductivity about one millionth that of seawater. It is sped up dramatically by adding an electrolyte (such as a salt, an acid or a base).
@Feynman
This is a lab cell and the amount of output is of little concern at this point, for the specific reason that the chemistry is still to be worked out. As was pointed out, that oxygen is going through a number of reactions which in the end can be as important as the hydrogen. This concept is easily ramped up.

This was posted here because it uses the SEC exciter, the electrolysis aspect will be covered on the Google Group. *This group will be highly controlled, I am very selective on who gets in and will kick out anyone that does not contribute, so only serious people need apply, the brute force electrolysis people need not apply, we will not have the time or patients in reconditioning their mindset.

A side note; I was being playful on 0 current, the current is 6mA for the cell in the video.

For the SEC exciter people, thnik about this;

The 22uH choke feeding the AV Plug gets so Hot you will burn your finger if you touch it (from 23V@6mA don't think so). The 10uH in the collector stays ambient along with the transistor, so can anyone figure out why this is happening ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 02, 2008, 11:41:48 PM
DR STIFFLER  this is amazing one splayed wire in pure water with that [what]power? Stephan you gotta make the DOC happy here     Chet
@ramset

The only way I will be happy is when qualified peers take my work seriously :-\
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 02, 2008, 11:52:02 PM
DR STIFFLER  I have an extremely qualifed family member  that I would love to rub this in his nose   so he can wake up    that is why I would love to replicate this  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 03, 2008, 12:05:03 AM
DR STIFFLER  I have an extremely qualifed family member  that I would love to rub this in his nose   so he can wake up    that is why I would love to replicate this  Chet
@ramset
What do you want to duplicate?  SEC Exciter or the HHO work?

Either way you need to get a board and start with the exciter (as per specification) then off you go. Get involved before we get into excess heat.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 03, 2008, 01:10:26 AM
@Dr. Stiffler,
Thank you for hosting my pic of the reproduction. It is very much reproducible now for me in this configuration. I will very likely explore the entire circuit with a NE and a sniffer for sure. I also just got my hands on a design for an RF (VI) probe from NIST. Will be building that very soon.  ;D
In the video of the SEC driving electrolysis, I seem to remember in my experiments that I had bubbles comming from both electrodes, but I don't see that in the video. Maybe I wasn't looking close enough and my 4 year old was watching it with me. By the way, she said to say hello to you.  ;) Doc, what kind of lab equipment is necessary for the HHO work? I would not want to get in over my head or endanger my family foolishly by cutting corners. If you know what I mean! Been there a little bit, know very well to be careful already. Them bubbles can bite! Which is of course the point!!!! I was thinking of building an out-back solar system and was wondering about storage of the sun and I said, DAMN! Bubbles! It is not for the foolhardy or less than full attention to the details thats for sure. In any case case I Tangent away.

@All,
Get the freaking circuit running if you haven't. I am amazed every time I fire it up! And more people need to see what they can see on it! I want to know what everyone else gets as results cause now I'm figuring out how to measure it. Gotta make it run first though!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 03, 2008, 01:36:05 AM
Just sharing before tonights experiments.

Since Dr. Stiffler comments on my youtube video saying that my "current is way to high", I decided to play with the exciter SEC a little bit again trying to achieve the best output for input. I made some hand wound wire (creating a coil/choke of a kind) and fireing the baby. I was able to reduce input current from 100+ma to mere 20ma and sometimes to unbelievable 2m or even less 1.3ma and STILL have neon lit and many LEDs lit.

So I am totaly convinced that this is NO TOY. How could I EVER get Leds lit and NEO with only 1.3ma (20v input)? Impossible? Try it!!!

So, before my purchased Forms (chokes forms) comes I will play with it more.

I can clearly see why hydrolisis would work not because of chear current (as many do on youtube) but the powerfull gradient created by the SEC (Am I craizy Doc?)

One can play with the harmonics created by SEC and add all the spikes up to a usefull point where standing waves and one line transmission (AV plugs) and radiant energy meet.

It is definetly an enlighting experiment for those that are skpetics to play and see for themselfs.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 03, 2008, 01:46:31 AM
The only way I will be happy is when qualified peers take my work seriously :-\

Hi Doc,

I am not sure why do you want to impress the mainstream scientists. They will be the last one to acknowledge anything outside the normal because their (comfy) positions depend on upholding and maintaining status quo. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 03, 2008, 02:05:57 AM
The only way I will be happy is when qualified peers take my work seriously :-\

Hi Doc,

I am not sure why do you want to impress the mainstream scientists. They will be the last one to acknowledge anything outside the normal because their (comfy) positions depend on upholding and maintaining status quo. :)
@Amigo
You want the truth, may not be what you want to hear 8)

Been there, done that and loved every minute of it. Loved the perks, the back slapping and the respect. Because of my strange ideas I am forever banished from Oz.

My work will benefit few unless it is taken into the mainstream, greater minds than mine must look at all the possible routes this can take, new dreamers, new thinkers. doing this in basement, garages and corner closets will insure it remains another novelty in some crank "Was it real" journal.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 03, 2008, 02:14:08 AM
@Amigo
You want the truth, may not be what you want to hear 8)

Been there, done that and loved every minute of it. Loved the perks, the back slapping and the respect. Because of my strange ideas I am forever banished from Oz.

My work will benefit few unless it is taken into the mainstream, greater minds than mine must look at all the possible routes this can take, new dreamers, new thinkers. doing this in basement, garages and corner closets will insure it remains another novelty in some crank "Was it real" journal.

I have figured that you have done many things in your career, but that time has passed and I do not believe you need to prove yourself over again. Your work stands on its own already and those of us following it and replicating add even more credibility that simply cannot be ignored.

If I may remind you many things start in a garage to become big. Recently it was Apple Inc's anniversary (April 1) and they started in a garage, a geek and a spin doctor at first and look at them now, an empire.

It's not really about the location something is done but about people and their ideas and vision they carry. Trying to please the mainstream is like pissing up the wind,  we all know what ends up happening... :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 03, 2008, 02:28:52 AM
The mainstream? Good lord! The lifestyle? Priceless! I'm pretty happy here right now! Garage used to mean something now I'm able to assemble in my "basement" or "garage" what would have been confined to the professional laboratory 15 to 20 years ago from the industrial worlds garbage.  :P Hot DAMN! Plengo is right on. Man I seen some neat stuff but this be the cats meow! Sweet! I took Ron's coil winding advice and wound a second coil right over top of my first for the base. Damn if that ain't the one that fires it up hard! I'll be exploring the perfection of the base circuit. Hey DOC! Don't be too awful surprised if great things come from the tree stand! LOL!  ::)

More work in the wee quiet hours for sure!  8) 8) 8)

Best to All,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 03, 2008, 02:41:13 AM
The mainstream? Good lord! The lifestyle? Priceless! I'm pretty happy here right now! Garage used to mean something now I'm able to assemble in my "basement" or "garage" what would have been confined to the professional laboratory 15 to 20 years ago from the industrial worlds garbage.  :P Hot DAMN! Plengo is right on. Man I seen some neat stuff but this be the cats meow! Sweet! I took Ron's coil winding advice and wound a second coil right over top of my first for the base. Damn if that ain't the one that fires it up hard! I'll be exploring the perfection of the base circuit. Hey DOC! Don't be too awful surprised if great things come from the tree stand! LOL!  ::)

More work in the wee quiet hours for sure!  8) 8) 8)

Best to All,

Jim
Lifestyle, Yes, but not quite what you might think I mean, kind of like the brothers in Blue, you screw up you might get a second chance or one hell of a lot of backup. Now I better explain this one better, what I mean is its a faster process sitting in a lab with  four or five grad students all working on the same thing, going minute by minute over what is taking place and what problems exit. Doing it over the internet and email with all its inherent problems is, please grant me "A real Pain" Sometimes the touchy feely period really works.

Now the kicker, I would much rather have a couple million worth of test gear over what I have and not be paying for it out of my retirement, Yes indeed all this is from my meager pocket and I'm not even altruistic.

Hey fellows I must get some sleep....................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 03, 2008, 02:48:00 AM
But this is why you find like-minded people who will be like those grad students. There are always able bodies if you only look around...and you did. :)

I'd like many things and yes, one of those is a lab filled with all kinds of gadgets and toys, but we have to make do with what we have available to us. That's what makes it even bigger of challenge - succeeding despite ourselves, hehe :D

Sleep well...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on April 03, 2008, 03:21:48 AM
*Removed*
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 03, 2008, 03:25:46 AM
VPN pipes and twisted tunnels are reality so there really is no reason!  8)

Evening

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 03, 2008, 03:50:57 AM
EM what would be  a good way to do this?  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 03, 2008, 04:03:16 AM
@EM

In answer to your question,
6.24150948?10^18 electrons/sec * (6mA / 1000mA) = 3.744905688*10^16 electrons per second.

But how can one calculate the energy of a cell which only evolves hydrogen? Something strange is going on here. What electrolysis experiment causes that massive activity in distilled de-ionized water off 6mA, on a single electrode? 

I agree , we need to rigorously measure energy to understand.  But to calculate electrolysis, you have to calculate the rate of evolution of gas, if you want to use Faraday's laws. . .

Quote
There are two efficiencies to be concerned with:
Current: If all the current goes to electrolysis of water, there are no side reactions, and no gas is lost, 4 moles of electrons will produce 2 moles of H2 gas and 1 mole of O2 gas. From the Faraday constant of 96485 C/mol, 4 moles of electrons is 385940 C of electricity 1 C = 1 A?s (this is 107.2 Ah to make 2 moles, 4.032 g, of H2). You can take product of current and time and compare your production to this figure.

Voltage: You can read about the thermodynamics here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu.../electrol.html

The Gibbs free energy of 237.1 kJ/mol of H2 can be expressed as a voltage by noting 2 mol of electrons are required to produce x 96485 C/mol, thus this is 237.1 kJ/193 kC = 1.23 V approximately. At negligible current, the reaction would proceed infinitely slowly in either direction at this voltage. The real world wants faster, so we force it with overvoltage in electrolysis, and settle for less when we operate it as a fuel cell, making electricity from H2 and O2.

Typically, we force the cell voltage in the range 1.5-2.0 V for electrolysis, and in fuel cell mode, load the cell down to about 0.7 V out. Most of the inefficiency relates to these voltage differences.

Quote
First, liters is not a great way to measure gases. You will have to correct the measured liters for actual temperature and pressure. Alternatively, you can calculate the molar volume at temperature and pressure. It is 22.414 L/mol at 0 ?C, and 1 atm. It is 24.46 L/mol at 25 ?C, 1 atm; I will use that figure. At other conditions, it is
22.414 L/mol x 101.325 kPa/P x (273.15 + T)/273.15 K, where P is pressure in kPa, and T is temperature in ?C.

To generate 1 mol/min of H2 at 100% efficiency, 237.1 kJ of electricity must be supplied in 1 minute (60s). 237.1 kJ/60 s = 3.95 kW.

At 3.95 kW and 100% efficiency, you should produce 1 mol/min, that's 2.016 g/min, or 24.46 L/min at 25 ?C (I can not over emphasize that the 24.46 L figure is temperature dependent). Because of that, I would encourage you to measure liters, correct for temperature and pressure, and convert to moles of production (or grams). It will greatly simplify comparison of performance at different conditions, although it obviously adds a layer of complexity.

If Molar Volume is MV,
(LPM/MV) x (3950 W?min/mol) / (WattsUsed) x100% = efficiency in %

The thread below has these calculation details for 'efficiency'  (more accurately referred to as COP) for electrolysis.

http://forum.onlineconversion.com/showthread.php?t=7218 (http://forum.onlineconversion.com/showthread.php?t=7218)

Sincerely,
Feynman
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 03, 2008, 04:27:59 AM
Before you boys get too excited,  do you know how many electrons pass by in a current of 6mA, per second? 

As I see it,  people are skirting around calculating the output energy.   Just do it, or are you afraid the dream might come crashing down?   I know I am at times, so let's be real, calculate the output power and see if you have overunity, else we're just playing with oscillators and RF.

Motors spinning, LED lighting, neons burning, hydrogen bubbling is NOT a measure of OUTPUT ENERGY.  !!!

EM

SURE POST COMPARATIVE DATA FROM THE SAME INSTRUMENT! SIR!  ;D

Best

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 03, 2008, 04:44:46 AM
Well  I guess thats one reason the Doc wants to standardize the  build everyone on the same page no variables    Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 03, 2008, 04:48:19 AM
I fail to see what is the significance of overunity or striving for it. I guess it must be something that humans inherently desire.

Many people on this forum seem to be obsessed with the notion of overunity, but beside the name of the site I do not understand why are we stuck up on that term or what it represents.

As far as my limited knowledge of Nature goes, there's nothing natural that is in overunity, everything somehow balances itself out at the end to 1 (unity, the whole). The Nature does not "waste" energy by having 20x more of something than it's really needed, just as a backup. Nature does not try and fail, it simply does it the first time so there's no need for a safety margin or a backup.

But here we are trying to cheat the Nature itself and create some gain (more than unity or one whole) out of nowhere because our civilization is brought up on the idea of scarcity so we have to hoard the resources fearing they might run out any moment. It's typical primitive hunters and gatherers line of thinking and I can honestly say that we aren't even worth C out of Civilization yet, contrary to what many believe or say.

That's my freebie rambling for the night, thanks for listening. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 03, 2008, 04:58:41 AM
Amigo  to me OU is pushing back the boundaries of what is possible  and around this Forum there's  a whole lot of pushing going on   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 03, 2008, 07:01:12 AM
@ Amigo:

I beg to differ...respectfully of course.  Overunity is all around us in nature.  Orbiting electrons and protons do not slow down and we did not start them spinning in their orbits and on a larger scale the planets and the solar system exhibits ou in my opinion as well.  I don't want to get into a big discussion on what overunity is as I have seen that before and everyone on here appears to have a differing opinion about it.  To some on the forum, finding a log in the forest and lighting it on fire, thereby getting out more energy in heat than you put in, is ou.  I don't agree with this of course but, if you ask you will see many, many varied opinions about it.  So, if we are all supposedly seeking it, and we all can't agree on what it is, how will we know if we ever find it or not?  I have no answer to this.

Just some thoughts on what I have observed.  OU or not, the Doc's circuit is certainly amazing to me anyway as are many things on this forum.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on April 03, 2008, 10:39:26 AM
Just some thoughts on what I have observed.  OU or not, the Doc's circuit is certainly amazing to me anyway as are many things on this forum.  Thanks.
Bill
I'm amazed too. Especially the Doc's latest video with electrolysis at 6 ma. I have performed many electrolysis experiments in recent years with wide ranging results. Some pleasing, some not. Distilled water is very hard to crack without a reasonable voltage to create the current necessary for meaningful hydrolysis to occur.
Adding electrolytes is one method of lowering the DC resistance of the water, but this invariably introduces a negative impact on one or both of the electrodes, by causing it/them to oxidise.

The method used, and the gas output volume of Doc's little SEC unit is quite mind boggling by any standards I can compare with, especially for a meagre 6 Milliamp current.

Interestingly, the gas yield is normally directly related to current. Similar experiments I have undertaken with pulsed systems has not yielded results anything like the Doc's system at that current level.......... KneeDeep...... I'm still well and truly hooked here.

Fantastic effort Doc Stiffler....... Well done et all....... KneeDeep    :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 03, 2008, 12:18:08 PM
@All
Here is my stance. I'm learning how to BUILD this device correctly per the Inventors' instructions and my own experience and exploration. I see no value in making hasty calls of COP / Eff. or anything else while I'm learning except to test my own methods of and the VALIDITY OF those methods and tests. I do this for a living. For REAL! They will be done. Training must come first! Would you want me to test your invention without knowing how to run it correctly? One thing is for certain, talking about it is not helping to gather the answers. EM must be on the metaphoric "board of directors" because that is what those folks sound like........sitting around a table...not doing much....of value to the effort.......but talking........having coffee.......and donuts...then going golfing.........Uhhhh??? Yea right! Here is the standard bull-shit back at you. Two weeks! Your results are due in two weeks! We'll deliver in two weeks! In reality they'll be done when they're done! Hey EM, you were awful F#@*ing light with the budgeting this year.  ;D Funny how that works!

No matter! We will see soon! Doesn't the suspense just kill you? Meanwhile some others and myself are actually trying, and apparently succeeding, to replicate this monster! Damned western philosophy of instantaneous gratification!!!!!!  :D

Best regards,

Jim   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on April 03, 2008, 01:44:21 PM
Before you boys get too excited,  do you know how many electrons pass by in a current of 6mA, per second? 

As I see it,  people are skirting around calculating the output energy.   Just do it, or are you afraid the dream might come crashing down?   I know I am at times, so let's be real, calculate the output power and see if you have overunity, else we're just playing with oscillators and RF.

Motors spinning, LED lighting, neons burning, hydrogen bubbling is NOT a measure of OUTPUT ENERGY.  !!!

EM


EM raises a good point here.

I have done a simple test using a motor of similar physical size to Dr. Stiffler's. The motor is from a stripped down miniature tape recorder of some description that I have had in my 'junk' box for a few years. It is labelled as a Mabuchi RF300C-11440 with a DC rating of 5.9V. It is 23mm in diameter with a body height of 12mm excluding the shaft which has a diameter of 2mm.

This motor can turn a small plastic strip prop similar to the first one used by Dr Stiffler powered from a DC bench supply at 2.2V. The motor draws 10.6mA giving a power consumption of just 0.023W!

Try this yourself with any similar spec high efficiency DC motor and be surprised at how little energy is really needed to turn that prop. Please do not ask to run a video of this simple test, just do it for yourself to see how little energy is needed to perform this feat.

Hoppy


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 03, 2008, 05:27:17 PM
I think devising a method to measure usable output energy in terms of watts is a good way to show if the experimenter is on the right track, only if... power out / power in > 1 is what we a looking for.

For instance, the Stiffler's circuit with  the computer fan demonstration, try load the fan or another motor with a generator. Generator efficiency is known or can be calculated, then you have got a usable output power, I am sure there are many other ways.
Measuring the correct input power is also important, it is easy to get fooled, especially when we don't really know what we are dealing with.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 03, 2008, 05:38:21 PM
DR STIFFLER  @ all Fantastic results  You mentioned standardizing  components  FEYNMAN and others have pointed out quality variations from different manufacturers    perhaps you can recommend a sourse for all components   so we all get similar results in future research    maybe LOKI [several boards built] can make a suggestion  thanx Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 03, 2008, 06:14:32 PM
@Chet

My favourite sources for electronic parts are the distributors Digikey and Jameco, but they carry different brands of parts.   

http://digikey.com/
http://www.jameco.com/

Different brands of components are different quality... for instance, the National Semiconductor 555 timer is really fast (3Mhz), but the Texas Instrument 555 timer is really slow (250khz). But they are both the same part.  The best way to tell is to look at the part datasheet.

Dr. Stiffler and those who have replicated his work such as Amigo, Loki, plengo, etc probably have the best info on components. I have not replicated or ordered parts yet, though I will be probably make a list this weekend.
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 03, 2008, 06:24:41 PM
FEYNMAN to minimize the variables  I would appreciate you letting  me follow your  lead from the board up   Once it is varified by DR STIFFLER   thanks  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 03, 2008, 06:34:43 PM
DR STIFFLER sorry it seems that way @ EM has offered amazing insight in so many areas   Have always considered him a valuable contributer  and I personaly need all the positive contribution I can get   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on April 03, 2008, 06:49:44 PM
*Removed*
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 03, 2008, 07:31:46 PM
playing, aka Alchemy  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hoppy on April 03, 2008, 08:33:07 PM
Before you boys get too excited,  do you know how many electrons pass by in a current of 6mA, per second? 

As I see it,  people are skirting around calculating the output energy.   Just do it, or are you afraid the dream might come crashing down?   I know I am at times, so let's be real, calculate the output power and see if you have overunity, else we're just playing with oscillators and RF.

Motors spinning, LED lighting, neons burning, hydrogen bubbling is NOT a measure of OUTPUT ENERGY.  !!!

EM


EM raises a good point here.

I have done a simple test using a motor of similar physical size to Dr. Stiffler's. The motor is from a stripped down miniature tape recorder of some description that I have had in my 'junk' box for a few years. It is labelled as a Mabuchi RF300C-11440 with a DC rating of 5.9V. It is 23mm in diameter with a body height of 12mm excluding the shaft which has a diameter of 2mm.

This motor can turn a small plastic strip prop similar to the first one used by Dr Stiffler powered from a DC bench supply at 2.2V. The motor draws 10.6mA giving a power consumption of just 0.023W!

Try this yourself with any similar spec high efficiency DC motor and be surprised at how little energy is really needed to turn that prop. Please do not ask to run a video of this simple test, just do it for yourself to see how little energy is needed to perform this feat.

Hoppy



@Hoppy
Apples and Oranges, compare to what we have used, all we need is 100 different motors to make this whole direction useless again.

So have you about got a protocol setup with a SEC exciter or are we just adding smoke here!
 

@ R. Stiffler

I'm simply pointing out that a small motor needs very little current to turn a rotor such as you show in your demo. I'm not trying to devalue your work just emphasising the point that EM has made about the importance of measuring input and output energy. This direction with motors used as a load is not useless as long as you believe that it is saying something significant and can convince others that this is the case.

And yes I have built your SEC. As you know, the concept of 'one wire transmission' is not new and I have achieved results using frequencies from around 18KHz and above using various LC oscillator designs.

Keep up the good work.

Clive
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 04, 2008, 12:12:56 AM
DR STIFFLER I like what you  have done with the place seems roomier    Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 12:18:56 AM
I just finished finding all the parts and prices for a standard SEC Exciter, the one I am using in all the current work, including the HHO unit.

Now the parts in 100 volume cost out to about $3.10 per exciter, the circuit board is $3.00, so if I order 100 boards and parts, what is a fair price to make these available (built and tuned into a Neon (for excess heat). The neon could be unsoldered and the exciter used for other projects.

I do not want to resell parts because it still may not work if the layout is wrong.

Would this help or not and will I get stuck with 99 of them??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 12:50:54 AM
@ALL
Because the current HHO project is in reality SEC, it will for the most part be handled here in the SEC thread. BUT I will not allow it to be taken over by the brute force segment, this is not the same as brute force and you can not think both ways, because it works altogether different.

I currently am waiting on SS wire and have a dual duct system ready to test. I feel it is best to get this way as the single duct is much more of a hazard.

As a result of this decision the Google Group is gone, it will be here and linked to the SS site for photos.

Thanks to Stephan I now have control and will delete anything ( I ) deem not in the interest and direction of the thread.......

We are moving forward.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 04, 2008, 01:27:27 AM
I think who ever starts a topic should have moderator type authority on that topic to be able to keep it on task.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lakes on April 04, 2008, 01:46:02 AM
I think who ever starts a topic should have moderator type authority on that topic to be able to keep it on task.

Bill
I agree, this would stop things going completely of topic which happened in another thread here.

Anyway, back on topic... :)

Glad to see the Dr. is still going to post here, as the HHO experiments have certainly got my interest.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 04, 2008, 01:49:51 AM
Out freaking standing! Open and yet moderated for pertinent content, just as one has in formal education!  ;D
It is a very good thing to maintain focus. I'm working TONIGHT!  8) 8) 8)

Best regards with things happening,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 04, 2008, 02:07:44 AM
DR this is great news what size stainless  wire should we use for the hho
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 02:32:03 AM
DR this is great news what size stainless  wire should we use for the hho
@ramset
If you have a working exciter and want to duplicate what was in the video, the wire was 0.018" 20lbs, 100ft Craft Bead Stringing Wire by Beadalon, it is a flexible 7 strand Nylon Coated. My best suppliers fro one-off SS, Cu, Zn, Sn is my corner craft store. They have rod, screen and sheet. A bit pricey but for quick on-ff it beats ordering.

The SS I have coming is solid 0.032" soft safety wire. I will be winding special shaped electrodes for the dual duct test.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 02:44:55 AM
@All

4-4-08 US, CDT I will place the info on my personal web site for a built, tested and tuned exciter on a PCB. You can find price for US and Non-US as well as the availability schedule. See the site for further info.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 04, 2008, 03:13:04 AM
THANKS  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on April 04, 2008, 03:17:33 AM
*removed* EM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 03:38:42 AM
Ron,   

did you remove my posts, now that you are a moderator?      You should initial any edits you make, just like Stefan does.   

Enjoy your new found "powers"!

EM

Yes I did.

Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 04, 2008, 03:55:25 AM
@ Amigo:

I beg to differ...respectfully of course.  Overunity is all around us in nature.  Orbiting electrons and protons do not slow down and we did not start them spinning in their orbits and on a larger scale the planets and the solar system exhibits ou in my opinion as well.  I don't want to get into a big discussion on what overunity is as I have seen that before and everyone on here appears to have a differing opinion about it.  To some on the forum, finding a log in the forest and lighting it on fire, thereby getting out more energy in heat than you put in, is ou.  I don't agree with this of course but, if you ask you will see many, many varied opinions about it.  So, if we are all supposedly seeking it, and we all can't agree on what it is, how will we know if we ever find it or not?  I have no answer to this.

Just some thoughts on what I have observed.  OU or not, the Doc's circuit is certainly amazing to me anyway as are many things on this forum.  Thanks.

Bill

Hi,

And so that is the whole issue, neither of us really know for sure, we are just tapping in the dark with our opinions :D

I'm just glad that we all have so many different ideas to drive us forward towards the truth...

Cheers!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 04, 2008, 03:57:31 AM
@RStiffler

I'm still puzzled why you don't run a CMS (Content Management System) for your websites since it appears to me you find making HTML pages tedious?

Even a blog like WordPress would be much better and you could blog all the time, add new entries, have them all searchable and we could follow the discovery progress as it unrolls. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on April 04, 2008, 10:45:22 AM
in reference to Doc's SEC 'electrolysis' video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1pJEz0YGlQ
.......
The 22uH choke feeding the AV Plug gets so Hot you will burn your finger if you touch it (from 23V@6mA don't think so). The 10uH in the collector stays ambient along with the transistor, so can anyone figure out why this is happening ;)

Hello Dr. Stiffler,
i was thinking about SEC electrolysis and have two questions:
1) how will prolonged SEC 'electrolysis' affect the temperature of the water in the test tube?
2) if a relatively huge amount of H is set free and a relatively small amount of O, then I think that the liquid (water) in the test tube would become oversaturated with Oxygen, such as a superoxide (not sure whether I apply these chemistry terms correctly).
However, will the liquid be combustible/flammable as a result?

Thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on April 04, 2008, 11:17:56 AM

... if a relatively huge amount of H is set free and a relatively small amount of O, then I think that the liquid (water) in the test tube would become oversaturated with Oxygen, such as a superoxide (not sure whether I apply these chemistry terms correctly).
However, will the liquid be combustible/flammable as a result?

Thanks
A good observation Gustav. It is highly likely that H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) will be formed under these conditions. Also, depending on the electrode metal, for example, aluminium: then a high possibility exists for Aluminium Hydroxide to form.

The liquid mixture on its own, is not "flammable", but the gas still within the liquid is always potentially flammable, especially if temperatures become excessive.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 04, 2008, 01:40:59 PM
Good morning everyone,
Lets start taking measurements shall we. I would like to hear some proposed methods for obtaining accurate measurements of voltages and currents in these AV loops/plugs. What are the pitfalls of trying to measure circuits containing complex impedances? What I have found to date, and has also been my previous experience, is that insertion of a meter, even a "quality" meter radically detunes a SEC circuit and other RF circuit for that matter. Insertion of a meter has an effect on ANY circuit! So it seems to me that even if I can retune the circuit to run, I have to ask myself is this truly representative of the circuit as I want it to be or do I now have a new and different circuit that includes the Z of the meter? Of course the latter is the case evidenced by the circuit showing detuning characteristics or stopping all together. In the latest reproduction work I am inputting between 16 VDC and 17.5 VDC with apparent measured input supply current of 62 ma to 75 ma. I have to work on a non or minimally invasive technique of measuring values out there in the AV stages. NOT AN EASY THING TO DO! Take it from me. Some form of current probe is what comes to mind and it is the route I'm going after. I'm open for suggestions from the group. Another good one for the group, how do we shield a cable and probe from noise when one of primary functional characteristics of this device is in fact broadband excitation? I'm going to cut some probes back this weekend so all of my leads are as short as possible while still usable. I'm also going to investigate building my probes from coax cable. There is much more to come! Be assured. But alas, I must go to work, to be able to continue this real work I want to do!  ;D Look forward to discussion of measurements. Please build the current circuit we are working with and I think we need to standardize on and then lable some test points. Everyone ready to build and test?

Best regards,

Jim

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 04, 2008, 03:10:18 PM
Hi Jim,
maybe still the best and exactest measurements could be achieved by
using calometriy.
So heat a water bath or oil bath with a load resistor and measure difference temperatures
and then calculate the outputted heat energy from the temperature differences.

But Doc Stiffler has already done this with water and got some OU results.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 03:34:00 PM
@All
@Stephan

Ok guys we have been here before, many time and before I repeat it so no one has to go search for it let me openly state this.

"I do not at this time, trust an external lab to test and (Correctly) report on SEC testing"

Why? Because of feedback and statements from labs that I was dealing with to do some tests. I would rather have "John Q Public" start out backing me up. If you do it right, you can have a very high error factor and still get a good out come. In some case you can be off by 50% and still agree with me, Then and Only Then is it safe to ask them to put up or shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have NEVER made accurate internal measurements, (for one thing something we can not measure is in there) and as Loki says and I have said and as Plengo has found, things run different with devices hung off the exciters.

Light Level; three Scientists have stated that certain LED circuits produce more light than they should with a similar non-SEC input, BUT they say SEC is NOT OU, What? What do I not understand.

I and an independent associate have both after doing extensive calorimetry found excess heat up to 5 times input, SO WE ARE WRONG??? Because CalTech or someplace else did not report this it is not true????

If even five of you show excess heat >2 with home made instruments, we can call  them down big time.

Unless there is some instrument I have never heard of, connecting a wire and reading an output will NEVER show the TRUE SEC picture. Forget the DMM's the Scopes and the SA's for now, a light meter or a home made calorimeter from foam and a glass thermometer (some digital freak out big time) we can do it.                 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 04, 2008, 04:11:40 PM
.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 04, 2008, 04:12:42 PM
First of all, respect for the hard work of all here, and especially, doing it for the public.

@RStiffler

"thing run different with things hung off the exciters."
Is this also the case if you vary 1 load, for instance, what happens (to the power input and visible light intensity) if you load the motor/fan with, for instance, your hand?

If this is a constant factor, you can, like I tried to tell before, load the fan or that other motor with a generator instead of the propeller, then you've got the same sort of electricity on the output as put in.
Another way is calculating the mechanical kinetic energy of a load, like a flywheel or the propeller, which will, according to conservation of energy, always be lower than inputpower, if calculated correctly.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 04:20:03 PM
in reference to Doc's SEC 'electrolysis' video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1pJEz0YGlQ
.......
The 22uH choke feeding the AV Plug gets so Hot you will burn your finger if you touch it (from 23V@6mA don't think so). The 10uH in the collector stays ambient along with the transistor, so can anyone figure out why this is happening ;)

Hello Dr. Stiffler,
i was thinking about SEC electrolysis and have two questions:
1) how will prolonged SEC 'electrolysis' affect the temperature of the water in the test tube?
2) if a relatively huge amount of H is set free and a relatively small amount of O, then I think that the liquid (water) in the test tube would become oversaturated with Oxygen, such as a superoxide (not sure whether I apply these chemistry terms correctly).
However, will the liquid be combustible/flammable as a result?

Thanks

@Gustav22
I am not going to make any additional claims, my neck is far to short for that, to many cut downs  :(

But you are pretty much on the money, Active PhotoSpec observation is very interesting and is helping in what is taking place. It would be worth the education to try it and here are some suggestions.

1) In a single duct (as shown in the video) place a wad of cotton in the end (be sure that water level is near topped off, don't want glass flying around) If the cotton touches the water and becomes saturated, fine, you will saturate anyway.

2) Be sure to use clean SS and good distilled water, other wise you will get all sort of crap in the water.

3) Run the test for at least 15 minutes.

4) Take the cotton in the end and saturate it with water from the tube

5) Quickly lay this saturated cotton next to another new wad of cotton that is clean and unsaturated.

With a match lighter, light them both and see what happens..............
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 05:40:06 PM
SEC Exciter Parts List (down to two supplies, coils are special)

www.drstiffler.com/secexciter.asp

Buy one built and working

www.drstiffler.com/
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 04, 2008, 06:38:02 PM
DR STIFFLER at your site I click on the sec  tuned  board  and nothing happens what am I doing wrong    Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: turbo on April 04, 2008, 08:04:46 PM

But Doc Stiffler has already done this with water and got some OU results.


So, can we sign this setup up for the overunity prize then?

M.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 04, 2008, 08:58:42 PM
If anybody can show a selfrunner this way delivering 3 Watts
contineously, sure  of course.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 04, 2008, 09:34:43 PM
IMHO anyone does this with DR STIFFLERS  work   the prize and recognition should go to the doc  that is what I will do  Chet    PS marco good thinking!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 09:55:45 PM
DR STIFFLER at your site I click on the sec  tuned  board  and nothing happens what am I doing wrong    Chet
@ramset
@All
Here is what has been set in return to the emails asking the same question (it will be added to the site to save people the question).

Sorry for any inconvenience, but we have not installed the PayPal link until the PCB's arrive, somewhere on or before  4/9/08.

The first ones should be available for shipping 4/14/08. Although no one has yet paid for one there is a long line once we open
it up, so if you still have interest start watching 4/8/08 at www.drstiffler.com

Thank You for the interest

Dr. Ronald Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 10:06:41 PM
IMHO anyone does this with DR STIFFLERS  work   the prize and recognition should go to the doc  that is what I will do  Chet    PS marco good thinking!!!
@All

The PCB for sale ('Will not give 3 watts") in order to do that you will need to parallel matched transistors with offset resistor to the base so that one does not swamp the others due to slight difference in vbe. If you want to go for a prize, I would suggest you use a proto board.

PLEASE NOTE! I am not myself interested in a prize, period. So if some one wants to work and do this (I have not released these higher power circuits) then please do.

My goal is not prize money, what I am after is not public known and should not be (other than peer acceptance), has nothing to do with our overall goals.

I will be happy to help in what transistors are required and/or how to configure a balanced drive, but think about multiple smaller units for things like HHO drivers.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: broli on April 04, 2008, 11:02:01 PM
What you big boys are doing is way beyond my freshman's physics head, but I tried to somulate the circuit to potentially see what's going on...or this software can't handle this circuit or I did something wrong since I don't see anything usefull happening?

(http://i32.tinypic.com/6tgx2w.gif)

You can play with this yourself if you'd like by copy-pasting the following stuff in the "import"...

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

$ 1 5.0E-6 24.228258192205157 50 5.0 50
l 64 416 64 320 0 1.0E-5 -1.009663273127126E-18
c 64 320 64 224 0 4.0E-10 -0.649536581230683
w 64 224 64 192 0
t 64 192 192 192 0 1 -19.34892634006661 0.6495365812306834 992.0
w 64 416 192 416 0
w 192 416 192 208 0
w 64 192 64 128 0
w 192 176 192 128 0
r 64 128 192 128 0 1000000.0
l 192 128 192 32 0 1.0E-5 -0.01921348390537858
l 192 128 288 128 0 0.0022 2.271919407036514E-28
d 288 128 368 128 0
w 288 128 288 208 0
d 288 208 368 208 0
w 192 416 480 416 0
w 192 32 480 32 0
w 480 416 480 112 0
d 672 112 672 32 0
c 480 112 480 32 0 1.0E-8 -19.998462921287544
c 544 112 544 32 0 1.0E-7 -19.998847190965655
c 608 112 608 32 0 1.0E-5 -19.999231460643767
r 480 112 544 112 0 0.01
r 544 112 608 112 0 0.01
r 608 112 672 112 0 0.01
r 672 112 752 112 0 0.01
r 672 32 752 32 0 0.01
r 672 32 608 32 0 0.01
r 608 32 544 32 0 0.01
r 544 32 480 32 0 0.01
v 752 112 752 32 0 0 40.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
162 368 128 368 208 0 1.0 0.0 0.0

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 04, 2008, 11:44:59 PM
Hi Dr. S.

I have been keeping up with many of the different forums here and have saved every page from
this one.  Great work.  (I feel sorry for you with the amount of "Mainstream" people that will not
accept what you're working on.)  I was working on the "TPU" ideals, but when I saw that this
device is a SPECIFIC PROOF of a concept that no in the academic area wants known, I had
to start cleaning up my breadboards and slide along.  Just to put it out there, for the people who
haven't seen what is being proven here, this ckt shows that a potential field IS NOT electron
flow.  I left off in collage in the 70's when a professor in the lab wouldn't accept that idea, even
though Tesla proved it long ago.  Dr Stiffler, you  have my thanks for putting me back on this path.

I'm going to replicate this in a few, and try many components, just to see how critical selection is.
(First transistor was 2N3904)  Osc. section was great, but no plugs yet.  What I am intending is
simple.  Instead of a motor, I will wind a "Step Down" transformer with very low capacitance from
primary to secondary.  Feed the primary with the single wire "Plug" source and then I can Ground
one lead of the secondary without draining the potential "Wave" coming up the wire.  If there is
any amount if increase, the output of the secondary should be able to power the Circuit.

I realize you may have done this already, and I have no desire for recognition.  This is for the
knowledge that man needs.  If I get the Circuit to self sustain, I'll post what I can here and will
make any documentation you desire available.  As far as I am concerned, this is your info, to
be used by you.  If I can add to it, I leave it up to you to disperse it as you see fit.  You have
a much better handle on this than I but I have been playing with related Ckts for 30 years and
would love to contribute.

Again, THANK-YOU.  (By The Way, I generated HHO with a Meyer Circuit that was modified
from the patent.  Interesting that the final Ckt was using the same ideas that yours does....)

Art
@Loner
Good Luck and hope you find something.

Yes I and a number of others have tried (I think) all possible ways and once you connect the output to ground (anywhere) it all goes away. You might want to look at one exciter's output being the supply for an identical exciter, but both need to float, feed the second back into the first. Oh, you will need to kick start one or the other.

Thanks for the interest.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 12:04:02 AM
What you big boys are doing is way beyond my freshman's physics head, but I tried to somulate the circuit to potentially see what's going on...or this software can't handle this circuit or I did something wrong since I don't see anything usefull happening?

(http://i32.tinypic.com/6tgx2w.gif)

You can play with this yourself if you'd like by copy-pasting the following stuff in the "import"...

http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

$ 1 5.0E-6 24.228258192205157 50 5.0 50
l 64 416 64 320 0 1.0E-5 -1.009663273127126E-18
c 64 320 64 224 0 4.0E-10 -0.649536581230683
w 64 224 64 192 0
t 64 192 192 192 0 1 -19.34892634006661 0.6495365812306834 992.0
w 64 416 192 416 0
w 192 416 192 208 0
w 64 192 64 128 0
w 192 176 192 128 0
r 64 128 192 128 0 1000000.0
l 192 128 192 32 0 1.0E-5 -0.01921348390537858
l 192 128 288 128 0 0.0022 2.271919407036514E-28
d 288 128 368 128 0
w 288 128 288 208 0
d 288 208 368 208 0
w 192 416 480 416 0
w 192 32 480 32 0
w 480 416 480 112 0
d 672 112 672 32 0
c 480 112 480 32 0 1.0E-8 -19.998462921287544
c 544 112 544 32 0 1.0E-7 -19.998847190965655
c 608 112 608 32 0 1.0E-5 -19.999231460643767
r 480 112 544 112 0 0.01
r 544 112 608 112 0 0.01
r 608 112 672 112 0 0.01
r 672 112 752 112 0 0.01
r 672 32 752 32 0 0.01
r 672 32 608 32 0 0.01
r 608 32 544 32 0 0.01
r 544 32 480 32 0 0.01
v 752 112 752 32 0 0 40.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
162 368 128 368 208 0 1.0 0.0 0.0


@broli
Great that you did this, but can I offer a few insights. The simulation software I use is a $7K pro package and it will not even begin to show a SEC Exciter.

Your ground return shown to the output stages is wrong, there is no solid ground. The connection to ground is capacitive and around 3.75pF. In fact in a properly constructed circuit, every point in the circuit has approx the same 3.75pF back to every other point. So replace you solid ground with 3.75pF and add 3.75pF from each point to every other point. A daunting task..................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 05, 2008, 12:42:52 AM
@All
@Stephan

Ok guys we have been here before, many time and before I repeat it so no one has to go search for it let me openly state this.

"I do not at this time, trust an external lab to test and (Correctly) report on SEC testing"

Why? Because of feedback and statements from labs that I was dealing with to do some tests. I would rather have "John Q Public" start out backing me up. If you do it right, you can have a very high error factor and still get a good out come. In some case you can be off by 50% and still agree with me, Then and Only Then is it safe to ask them to put up or shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have NEVER made accurate internal measurements, (for one thing something we can not measure is in there) and as Loki says and I have said and as Plengo has found, things run different with devices hung off the exciters.

Light Level; three Scientists have stated that certain LED circuits produce more light than they should with a similar non-SEC input, BUT they say SEC is NOT OU, What? What do I not understand.

I and an independent associate have both after doing extensive calorimetry found excess heat up to 5 times input, SO WE ARE WRONG??? Because CalTech or someplace else did not report this it is not true????

If even five of you show excess heat >2 with home made instruments, we can call  them down big time.

Unless there is some instrument I have never heard of, connecting a wire and reading an output will NEVER show the TRUE SEC picture. Forget the DMM's the Scopes and the SA's for now, a light meter or a home made calorimeter from foam and a glass thermometer (some digital freak out big time) we can do it.                 

@All,
That is pretty much where I was going to go with my morning post today. I have tried so many different ways to get ACCURATE measurements in this and many, many, other circuits. DC is generally easy although some curves can be thrown at you there too!  ::) In AC and specifically RF, regardless of what is tried it affects the tuning and therefore the system as a whole. When we are working on a radio this is or can be kept to acceptable levels. However in SEC, when I have to retune the circuit I have to move operation away from the unaltered circuit's, i.e. no meters or scopes, operational points. This of course means that I am now operating at a different point than desired. It is a rough reality but it is there nonetheless. So I could be, and have, screwed myself before I even got started. It just smacks of Heisenberg and the principal of uncertainty. If I directly measure it I appreciably alter it so then what REALLY did I measure? Likewise if I don't measure it then subjective interpretation is my operational mode and that can change with my attitude!

An interesting dilemma to be stuck in the middle of, no? It is certainly part of what drives me to investigate subjects like this. Challenging it is, impossible it is not! I believe that when Dr. Stiffler is ready to he will bring the heat. Be patient and study what you need to in order to fill in gaps if necessary. Gather materials and start building and experimenting if you aren't already. From my personal viewpoint consider yourselves in training right along with me.  8) 8) 8)  I'm going to get some insulating foam and a brand new aluminum pot!  8) There are many very interesting things to explore here and now my number one goal is to gather NON INVASIVE data that corroborates what Dr. Stiffler has been saying. For the homebrewer this will probably be most easily accomplished by calorimetric measurements. I think even a professional or commercial outfit would likely do the same thing. But WE CAN report data that seems anomalous! If an engineer does that he may get reassigned or even let go. The board of directors does not care about physical phenomena, especially ones that could reduce their oil stocks to asswipe, it's all about the money. If someone in grant funded research comes off with these results how long do you think the money would be there. If the money disappears from a project where do you think the scientists involved are going? It is clear. We need to gather as many CREDIBLE independent reproductions of these data as possible and back Dr. Stiffler up. We all benefit that way and I am dedicated to doing so!

The WEEKEND HAS ARRIVED! Back to work!

Best regards to all,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 05, 2008, 01:11:30 AM
Weekend is here, yey, and I stopped by the electronics store earlier today to pick up some parts, just to find out now hours later that Doc had posted a parts list and it shows the AVP with 1N4248 which I don't have...grrr, if I only knew that this morning when I was in the store, hehe. :)

So what is our next step, measuring light emission with home made instruments?

I still wonder about one thing...how do we know that LEDs themselves are not acting as photo sensors and producing some potentials that add to the illumination?
I mentioned this awhile back because I have seen circuits where LEDs are used as light detectors and produced potentials. Since these circuits oscillate with very high frequencies is it wrong to assume that in the off times, LEDs might reverse to light detection and create potentials?

Someone please correct me about the above if I'm wrong to think it's possible...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 01:18:18 AM
Weekend is here, yey, and I stopped by the electronics store earlier today to pick up some parts, just to find out now hours later that Doc had posted a parts list and it shows the AVP with 1N4248 which I don't have...grrr, if I only knew that this morning when I was in the store, hehe. :)

So what is our next step, measuring light emission with home made instruments?

I still wonder about one thing...how do we know that LEDs themselves are not acting as photo sensors and producing some potentials that add to the illumination?
I mentioned this awhile back because I have seen circuits where LEDs are used as light detectors and produced potentials. Since these circuits oscillate with very high frequencies is it wrong to assume that in the off times, LEDs might reverse to light detection and create potentials?

Someone please correct me about the above if I'm wrong to think it's possible...
@Amigo
YOU SHOULD HAVE CALLED ME OUT ON THIS AT ONCE, the posted type is incorrect, but the part number for JameCo is correct. You want 1N4148, I will call someone and see if they can change it before they leave.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 01:20:14 AM
@All

If you want to try and get software to simulate the simple SEC, the following is pretty close to what you want to use.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 05, 2008, 01:32:16 AM
Hi Doc,

I did not know it was a typo, I figured it was correct since there is a 1N4248 as well - at least we caught it early on.

Off to make me a full circuit with the right components, now that I have all, and see what happens. :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 02:47:30 AM
Weekend is here, yey, and I stopped by the electronics store earlier today to pick up some parts, just to find out now hours later that Doc had posted a parts list and it shows the AVP with 1N4248 which I don't have...grrr, if I only knew that this morning when I was in the store, hehe. :)

So what is our next step, measuring light emission with home made instruments?

I still wonder about one thing...how do we know that LEDs themselves are not acting as photo sensors and producing some potentials that add to the illumination?
I mentioned this awhile back because I have seen circuits where LEDs are used as light detectors and produced potentials. Since these circuits oscillate with very high frequencies is it wrong to assume that in the off times, LEDs might reverse to light detection and create potentials?

Someone please correct me about the above if I'm wrong to think it's possible...
@Amigo
If the LEDs themselves are acting in this way and that can be shown (assuming no manufacture has it hidden in a file someplace) would be a great discovery in itself.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 05, 2008, 03:14:59 AM
@Amigo
If the LEDs themselves are acting in this way and that can be shown (assuming no manufacture has it hidden in a file someplace) would be a great discovery in itself.

I believe this has to do with the photo-voltaic properties of LEDs, there's some talk about reverse-bias in LED, here's an article just as a reference but there are more: http://www.edn.com/article/CA6387024.html

I remember seeing an article in one of the electronics magazines where they built a sensor for a model rocket using various colour LEDs so they could measure the atmospheric spectra and they were digitizing voltage potentials off the LEDs and recording them in the PIC micro-controller.

Another very cool example of using LEDs was this one called LED Touch Sensing: http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ledtouch/index.html
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 05, 2008, 03:19:36 AM
@RStiffler

I am having a real hard time replicating the very first SEC_10sx.gif circuit, using the exact components. When I measure the current from the power supply it's anywhere between 30 and 60mA much more than what you originally had in the video.

Or maybe I'm thinking of apples and oranges here because the video was about HHO and not LEDs, NE2 and the motor?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 05, 2008, 03:26:04 AM
Weekend is here, yey, and I stopped by the electronics store earlier today to pick up some parts, just to find out now hours later that Doc had posted a parts list and it shows the AVP with 1N4248 which I don't have...grrr, if I only knew that this morning when I was in the store, hehe. :)

So what is our next step, measuring light emission with home made instruments?

I still wonder about one thing...how do we know that LEDs themselves are not acting as photo sensors and producing some potentials that add to the illumination?
I mentioned this awhile back because I have seen circuits where LEDs are used as light detectors and produced potentials. Since these circuits oscillate with very high frequencies is it wrong to assume that in the off times, LEDs might reverse to light detection and create potentials?

Someone please correct me about the above if I'm wrong to think it's possible...
@Amigo
If the LEDs themselves are acting in this way and that can be shown (assuming no manufacture has it hidden in a file someplace) would be a great discovery in itself.


@Amigo and Doc,
I know I was quite surprised some years ago to find out that most PN junctions do the light thing not just the ones with windows on them.  :-* I would not be surprised to find something there. Crazy nonlinear device it is. I am wondering along the same lines also so I fired a laser into many of the LED's on my latest SEC looking for changes to supply voltage or current and also intensity of other LED's with the circuit running peak motor RPM. No changes observed to date. I'm getting a couple of other lasers and will post results. The NE glow is damned interesting too. Ball of plasma and just as nonlinear! It is interesting to observe an NE on one end of an AV chain and the motor on the other. I seem to have some competition between the two. They do not peak in intensity at the same frequency or base adjustment. Much experimentation and exploration do be done and a big foam block to build up! Here we go! Yes I saw the 4248's also and said DAMN! Gotta go shopping again? I was saying something before I was ordering.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 05, 2008, 04:41:41 AM
@Loki67671

Regarding shining the laser, in order for that to work the wavelength of the LED has to match the wavelength of the laser, for best results. Also, I bet you could shine a specific kind of a laser at the AV plug and excite the 1N4148 (if they are glass), it's really a matter of matching the wavelength of the PN junction.

I believe most people never think about it or try it because most PN junctions are enclosed into metal or epoxy but with LEDs and some diodes they are open to external influence but nothing happens because wavelengths are different. I suppose we could compute the size of the PN junction in the 1N4148 and hit it with that wavelength, I bet you we'd get excitation.
Too bad we don't have some kind of a laser that can be tuned to various wavelengths, it would make for quite an interesting experience. :)

I agree about the NE glow, it is mesmerizing to watch, but what interests me is that while I'm tuning the coil I get different behaviours of the glow. I'll paste here something from the wikipedia first:

When driven from a DC source, only the negatively charged electrode (cathode) will glow. When driven from an AC source, both electrodes will glow
(each during alternate half cycles). Neon lamps operate using a low current glow discharge.

Once lit, a neon lamp has a negative resistance characteristic: increasing the current flow through the device increases the number of ions, thereby
decreasing the resistance of the lamp and allowing even more current to flow. Because of this characteristic, electrical circuitry external to the neon
lamp must provide a means to limit current flow through the circuit or else the current will rapidly increase until the lamp is destroyed.

I always remember those paragraphs because while looking at my setup depending where I tune the coil I'd get one electrode to glow or both (glow would be between the electrodes), yet I am not sure whether that should happen or not.

Also, I have been playing around with various choke values for the AVP connections and right now a slightly modified version of the circuit runs with HV properties (NE is glowing) and LEDs are super bright while being driven by a 6V from the power supply which is basically 1/2 of what Doc suggests to use. Current usage is about 21ma...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 04:42:22 AM
@Amigo
If the LEDs themselves are acting in this way and that can be shown (assuming no manufacture has it hidden in a file someplace) would be a great discovery in itself.

I believe this has to do with the photo-voltaic properties of LEDs, there's some talk about reverse-bias in LED, here's an article just as a reference but there are more: http://www.edn.com/article/CA6387024.html

I remember seeing an article in one of the electronics magazines where they built a sensor for a model rocket using various colour LEDs so they could measure the atmospheric spectra and they were digitizing voltage potentials off the LEDs and recording them in the PIC micro-controller.

Another very cool example of using LEDs was this one called LED Touch Sensing: http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ledtouch/index.html
@Amigo
Early in the thread the ability of LEDs to act like photo detectors was discussed, indeed the clear glass 1N4148s will do similar things. I can't remember if it was here or a private conversation where I mentioned painting the 4148s black ti insure they did not pick up light. I have indeed used LEDs in solar positioning detectors, but it would be new to get the power out of them to this level. If all LEDs were reverse biased, where and how would they store and change the polarity for addition during a forward cycle?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 04:48:34 AM
@Loki
How did the Relative IR readings come out, as I guessed or different?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 05, 2008, 04:52:03 AM
@Amigo
Early in the thread the ability of LEDs to act like photo detectors was discussed, indeed the clear glass 1N4148s will do similar things. I can't remember if it was here or a private conversation where I mentioned painting the 4148s black ti insure they did not pick up light. I have indeed used LEDs in solar positioning detectors, but it would be new to get the power out of them to this level. If all LEDs were reverse biased, where and how would they store and change the polarity for addition during a forward cycle?

Hi Doc,

There's also something else that came to mind just now, something that Marco had posted in another thread, regarding the AVP.

Quote from: -[marco
There are several things most people seem to miss when we look at things like the Avramenko's plug. One for example is, when it is used to charge up a capacitor, the effective adding to the charge in the cap decreases when the voltage the cap is charged to rises.

The reason for this is simple, The charge in the cap "pushes" against the charge coming from the plug. If the cap is empty it will store much of the energy coming from the plug, but when the cap is charged to let's say 100 volts, the cap pushes 100 volts against the plug...
So let's say the plug sends 200 volts to the cap, the effective voltage will be only 200 minus the 100 that already is in the cap = 100 in stead of 200.

This means the cap charges rather fast at first but when it becomes charged, only the voltage from the plug that is above the voltage of the cap will add to the charge. So in effect, the voltage the plug has to overcome the charge of the cap to add to the charge, the 100 volts, is lost in the process. If we could start with an totally empty capacitor all the time, we would see different things.

Therefore it is important that we get rid of the charge that is in the cap, fighting against the energy coming from the plug. That is one of the things some people miss and i do not want to make it too difficult to understand.

Another thing is that Diodes are leaky, they never cut off the flow totally. You could look at them as if their resistance changes but not between a zero ohm and infinity. Vacuum diodes, however do block the flow in one direction. There is a great difference between them. You can have something that is totally closed or you can have something that is almost closed.

In the case of the almost closed situation there can be a back flow of energy due to charge differences, and even in opposite directions.

An interesting thing to look at is the "Avalanche breakdown" where the electrons are ripped off. It has been claimed that when this happens, the ripped off electrons are replaced by electrons out of the environment, so in effect they attract energy from the local environment.

Perhaps the LEDs act opposite of the capacitors or are leaking (almost closed from the example above)?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: argona369 on April 05, 2008, 05:51:37 AM
*Removed*


>*Removed*
>? Last Edit: April 03, 2008, 10:07:04 PM by RStiffler ? 
 
Hey RStiffler,

did harti give you the power to edit other peaples posts???
or does EMdevices=RStiffler?
....
If you have nothing of value to say, just don't say it.

This has no value, sound like atypical useless post

.....
added:
just wondered. after talking to Harti, it seems resonable that your just
editing chaff from your own invention thread, and can't read Private mail or anything as moderator.
thanks,
Cliff,
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2008, 06:20:45 AM
Dr. Stiffler:

With my work with leds in the earth battery experiments I have seen them act in a photo voltaic manner.  I have since read that some colors and types are better than others but I can take one of my cheap, run of the mill red leds outside in the sunlight and measure voltage.  I can also measure voltage on one by shining a maglight at it.  It was not much, I don't remember the exact readings but it is there.  I am not claiming that this is what is happening here at all, it is just possible it could add a little to the circuit.  I have read here (on OU.com) that they use the green leds to track the sunlight in solar applications.  You would think the led manufacturers would be all over this and maybe they are but I have not read any mainstream stuff on this effect.  Please keep up your great efforts here.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 05, 2008, 11:39:36 AM
@Loki
How did the Relative IR readings come out, as I guessed or different?
They are different for now, but that is an apples and oranges statement on my part, and of course I am distracted and investigating it. The specific experiment I have held off for now, while I figure out what is going on. I'm getting heat! But not where I expect it! Which makes me very cautious.  ;) There are several possibilities and I have to try and rule them out 1 by 1.  :-\ The specific experiment is actually going to happen this morning.  ;D I will let you know.

Regarding ruling them out 1 by 1, I have ruled many out already.  8) 8) 8)

@Loki67671

Regarding shining the laser, in order for that to work the wavelength of the LED has to match the wavelength of the laser, for best results. Also, I bet you could shine a specific kind of a laser at the AV plug and excite the 1N4148 (if they are glass), it's really a matter of matching the wavelength of the PN junction.

Yes, and the reason I was lining up additional lasers  ;D  I have also considered the IR emitter/receiver pairs and various circuit configurations.  ;D With that, along with stealing the laser from a CD player. A word of immediate caution on that note. For those reading this and that may not know the laser in the CD device is IR wavelengths. DO NOT LOOK INTO IT! YOU CANNOT SEE IT'S EMMISIONS BUT THEY WILL DO DAMAGE JUST THE SAME! ALSO YOU MUST GET A PAIR OF LASER BLOCKING SAFETY SPECS IF YOU ARE GOING TO WORK WITH LASERS AT ALL! There is much to do!

I believe most people never think about it or try it because most PN junctions are enclosed into metal or epoxy but with LEDs and some diodes they are open to external influence but nothing happens because wavelengths are different. I suppose we could compute the size of the PN junction in the 1N4148 and hit it with that wavelength, I bet you we'd get excitation.
Too bad we don't have some kind of a laser that can be tuned to various wavelengths, it would make for quite an interesting experience. :)

I agree about the NE glow, it is mesmerizing to watch, but what interests me is that while I'm tuning the coil I get different behaviours of the glow. I'll paste here something from the wikipedia first:

When driven from a DC source, only the negatively charged electrode (cathode) will glow. When driven from an AC source, both electrodes will glow
(each during alternate half cycles). Neon lamps operate using a low current glow discharge.

Once lit, a neon lamp has a negative resistance characteristic: increasing the current flow through the device increases the number of ions, thereby
decreasing the resistance of the lamp and allowing even more current to flow. Because of this characteristic, electrical circuitry external to the neon
lamp must provide a means to limit current flow through the circuit or else the current will rapidly increase until the lamp is destroyed.

I always remember those paragraphs because while looking at my setup depending where I tune the coil I'd get one electrode to glow or both (glow would be between the electrodes), yet I am not sure whether that should happen or not.

Agreed again, see both DC and AC excitation of the NE and combinations in the bigger tubes. I have always been interested in the negative resistance operational range of an NE bulb or other plasma for that matter.

Also, I have been playing around with various choke values for the AVP connections and right now a slightly modified version of the circuit runs with HV properties (NE is glowing) and LEDs are super bright while being driven by a 6V from the power supply which is basically 1/2 of what Doc suggests to use. Current usage is about 21ma...

@Amigo
You can tell when someone is looking at the same thing as you are.  ;D I have seen all of what you describe above including the very low input voltage with NE and LED's just blazing, but I have no motor action with that going on. It is very interesting. Man I wanted to try the choke combinations myself. Remember Dr. Stiffler saying "LF, HF, VHF, and UHF"? I was going to try a steering type array originating at the collector node but with various chokes having SRF's that cover the range there followed by AVP's and LED's. I will eventually get at that too.  ;D But I'm going into my lab for the morning session, which of course is the basement of my house.  8)

I will update later today.

Happy hunting folks and best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on April 05, 2008, 11:48:46 AM
@All

If you want to try and get software to simulate the simple SEC, the following is pretty close to what you want to use.


Hi !

The used diode model - as well as the diode parameters for the AV plug are
essential.
As long as you use identical models and identical parameters for both diodes
- nothing can (will) happen.

If we talk about spice and derivates - it could make sense to use a diode
"piece" of a transistor  - because the models for transistors are somehow
more comprehensive than that one of "stupid" diodes - typicalwise never
used in such configuration.
[everything else simulates quite easy - as long as you use a "real" power
supply in the simulation (add series resistor,etc.) and find the right bias for
the transistor]
BTW: The problem is the model for the AV diodes -> NO SEC
You can replace them with damped multiband delay lines ....(hint)


rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: turbo on April 05, 2008, 11:51:58 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler
another useless post

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 01:55:57 PM
@All

If you want to try and get software to simulate the simple SEC, the following is pretty close to what you want to use.


Hi !

The used diode model - as well as the diode parameters for the AV plug are
essential.
As long as you use identical models and identical parameters for both diodes
- nothing can (will) happen.

If we talk about spice and derivates - it could make sense to use a diode
"piece" of a transistor  - because the models for transistors are somehow
more comprehensive than that one of "stupid" diodes - typicalwise never
used in such configuration.
[everything else simulates quite easy - as long as you use a "real" power
supply in the simulation (add series resistor,etc.) and find the right bias for
the transistor]
BTW: The problem is the model for the AV diodes -> NO SEC
You can replace them with damped multiband delay lines ....(hint)


rgds.
@Fritz
Your correct on the delay line approach.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 05, 2008, 02:32:35 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler, although relevant this post is not required.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on April 05, 2008, 02:51:38 PM
@ Stiffler

So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodes
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage.
This means that the output resistance of the AV plug
is determined by the diode junction - and the energy
is a product of the charge in the junction and the frequentness
it is released. hmmmm
Sounds like an innovative impedance converter.
Ever tried different (slower (do they really exist !?)) diodes with
wider junction area (e.g. enclosed photo diodes)?

Do you think the AV-Plug is involved in the "SEC" effect - or is
just helpful to "harvest" the produced energy ?

rgds,

PS: I agree with you that it makes no sense to use traditional
equippement SA, Scopes, to analyze this. Using a very fast
transient recorder and matlab would make more sense = gives
at least a precise (abstract) picture of what is happening.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 03:14:10 PM
@ Stiffler

So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodes
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage.
This means that the output resistance of the AV plug
is determined by the diode junction - and the energy
is a product of the charge in the junction and the frequentness
it is released. hmmmm
Sounds like an innovative impedance converter.
Ever tried different (slower (do they really exist !?)) diodes with
wider junction area (e.g. enclosed photo diodes)?

Do you think the AV-Plug is involved in the "SEC" effect - or is
just helpful to "harvest" the produced energy ?

rgds,

PS: I agree with you that it makes no sense to use traditional
equippement SA, Scopes, to analyze this. Using a very fast
transient recorder and matlab would make more sense = gives
at least a precise (abstract) picture of what is happening.


@Fritz
*Ever tried different (slower (do they really exist !?)) diodes with
*wider junction area (e.g. enclosed photo diodes)?

Yes a number of us have tried different diodes, many have tried the Ultra fast 1N4007 and some have told me direct and there are some posted replications here where they have been used. I have tried about every thing I have in my stock and a few extra. The UF1N4007 will work, but the output (in my attempts) has never appeared to be worthwhile.

I use and have used from the start 1N4148s and at times 1N914s. The 1N4148 as you know has a very low junction capacity, the Vishay 1N4148/1N914 has a diode capacity of 4pF and a reverse recovery time of 4-8nS. I have yet to find one to work as well as this cheap little signal diode.

*Do you think the AV-Plug is involved in the "SEC" effect - or is
*just helpful to "harvest" the produced energy ?
My feeling is that the structure of the AV plug along with the diodes and the wideband excitation are all working together. What I have read on the AV Plug indicates that the one wire transmission tests were done in the KV range and used transformers and capacitors as well as large natural masses for operation. Frolov used LF, transformer for HV and capacitors. I do not know of any reports of the AV plug in these configurations exhibiting anything abnormal.

*transient recorder and matlab would make more sense = gives
You have mentioned this before and I think I indicated (seriously) that we would be very grateful if you could do this, is this possible and would you??

Thank you for the valuable and inline with direction post.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 05, 2008, 03:28:20 PM
Well it took me a few days to read all ... wish all the BS was left out and the thread kept to the research ... would have been a whole lot less time and I might have absorbed more, pretty hard for my one brain cell to keep up :P   

@Stiffler nice work ... I have seen some of this effect in what I have been working on in my energy driver for my HHO unit.   You are on to something here.  Have you tried going to higher frequency's yet ? Or into the VLF range .. tapping into the earth's core frequency? and resonate off of that.  I have found that using 6 frequency harmonics gets a better result for resonense than 1 or even 3. 

@all ... this may be a dumb question and I may have already missed it or lost it.  Is there anyone that has lit up 1 (or more) led's without an external power supply ie. battery or grid power ?  @ Haliburtun in your video's I have not noticed an external supply ... but I think I am not looking close enough.

I will be trying out a 3 magnet pump circuit design to drive the input ... if I meet with success this can then be coupled to Doc's and will make it a closed loop.  I just hope that I can get rid of the very high frequency's that the pump creates so it does not cause havic with the tuning.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 03:51:02 PM
Some Opinions and a help request.

I don't think there is a simulator program out there that will properly handle this type
of circuit, for the simple reason that the effects aren't really known.  How do you calculate
the effects on a circuit if you don't know what they are.  Is this a valid assumption?

Now for my HELP question.  I built the basic ckt.  I changed a few things to fit what I
have in my parts boxes.  (Actually, they are bigger than some stores.)  The Basic Circuit
is the same, but the Coils are 18uH, the main coil from power I hand wound, and the base
coil is a little larger than the original spec.  (On the exact same form....just a couple extra turns)

Here's what happens.  The output of the LEDs is GReat for high current input (60 to 80 mA).
I must mention that the last AVP has the primary of a very small torrid xformer instead of an LED.
I wond it specifically so all the primary is on one side and the sec, on the other side for minimum
amount of cap. between windings.  I don't seem to lose too much with one side of the secondary
attached to Ground.This allows me to scope the other secondary lead with NO EFFECT on
the circuit.  This is how I noticed my problem.  (Maybe this is normal?)
When I tune for minimum current, I hit a "Threshold" where the current drops below 1mA but
the Osc. output is no longer continous.  The out changes from a fairly clean sine to a Hash
type of output in defined pulses.  Hash is appros .08uS wave for 20 us and then decays to nothing
in another 35 us.  Now I have a dead output until 9.5 mS goes by.  Pattern Repeats.

I have no idea why the Osc does this.  (Running 2 Hours now, just to be sure).  Of course I
have noticed many other quirks, but this seems weird.  Also, the output has the hightest
voltage peaks with this signal.  Increasing the base inductance will push the output to a continous
wave, but the output voltage decreases.  More currrent available, of course.  Also, even though
the LED's don't light with this "Pulse" wave, they are just noticable in the dark.
(Extra note:  I am doing most testing with Lights on AND lights off to try and account for
LED's converting light, etc.  Unless they are converting their own light, there seems to be
no effect that I have found, yet....)

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Last little Question.  If I attach a wire (Normal jumper lead with clips.) to the AVP side of
the first inductor, I get an increase in the output voltage, but no change in the wave shape???
This is a 1 Foot long lead just clipped on.  Of course, my hand makes a difference, but I am
only mentioning the results after pulling my hands away.  Almost like an antenna, but at any
frequency I happen to be tuned to.  (Oppps, forgot to mention, I have used several Caps to
try several frequencys.)  Is it possible that this is all the correct operation and the OSC ckt
is Supposed to be unstable for better harmonic production?

Any insights welcome, but I must sleep now.  Been at this for 9 hours straight and am getting
blurred vision.  Makes it hard to read the fine lines on scope and meters....

Art
@Loner
Let me answer some of your questions, but the short answer is your not properly tuned and this is not a valid replication as you have introduced to many different variables out side of specifications.

* Is this a valid assumption?
Yes, you are correct in these statements, I do have a theory (predicted results can be obtained) that appears to be for the moment stable. In other words I can duplicate outcomes based on the underlying theory. But, I have no idea if this is a theory that cannot  be explained much different or may already be explained as part of some different comprehensive view.

* I built the basic ckt.  I changed a few things to fit what I
*have in my parts boxes.  (Actually, they are bigger than some stores.)
I'm sorry but this is your primary problem. You should see this from other work on this thread, we kind of do it the same or problems and different results are obtained.

* This is how I noticed my problem.  (Maybe this is normal?)
*When I tune for minimum current, I hit a "Threshold" where the current drops below 1mA but
*the Osc. output is no longer continous. 
A properly tuned exciter will not go into this mode (the base cap and coil will not allow it, if they are correct). Do understand that supply voltage has an affect on how the exciter operated. At different voltages you can get it to tune many different way, with 99% being the wrong way.

If you can it would shave you much time and frustration to do as close as possible a replication using parts as shown at www.drstiffler.com/secexciter.asp this is the simplest and best place to start and will give you many hours of answer seeking. Also do not forget the proto-board, it has an intrinsic capacity that is required unless you use a special design PCB

If anyone else wants to comment, jump in and help Loner get going.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 03:59:13 PM
Well it took me a few days to read all ... wish all the BS was left out and the thread kept to the research ... would have been a whole lot less time and I might have absorbed more, pretty hard for my one brain cell to keep up :P   

@Stiffler nice work ... I have seen some of this effect in what I have been working on in my energy driver for my HHO unit.   You are on to something here.  Have you tried going to higher frequency's yet ? Or into the VLF range .. tapping into the earth's core frequency? and resonate off of that.  I have found that using 6 frequency harmonics gets a better result for resonense than 1 or even 3. 

@all ... this may be a dumb question and I may have already missed it or lost it.  Is there anyone that has lit up 1 (or more) led's without an external power supply ie. battery or grid power ?  @ Haliburtun in your video's I have not noticed an external supply ... but I think I am not looking close enough.

I will be trying out a 3 magnet pump circuit design to drive the input ... if I meet with success this can then be coupled to Doc's and will make it a closed loop.  I just hope that I can get rid of the very high frequency's that the pump creates so it does not cause havic with the tuning.
*If needed I will have someone watch the thread 24/7 and we will keep the thread a lot smaller and relevant, NO MATTER WHAT TOES I STEP ON!

* I have seen some of this effect in what I have been working on in my energy driver for my HHO unit. 
The SEC Exciter that I have established as standard and used in my last video on HHO is about as wide banded as you will get. It produces very high energy output about every 5MHz from 4.6-356MHz and less useful ones much higher. Granted the low end is left out, but SEC does not work down here (unless someone has done it).

Look forward to you observations and results.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 05, 2008, 04:15:43 PM
@All
Another quick note for my fellow researchers. The Fluke IR Thermometer I'm using is also affected somehow by SEC and I'm not talking about RFI and this is NOT connected to the circuit under measurement in any way that I am aware of. This is indeed an elusive monster. It does not want to be measured, for lack of any better explanation at this point.

Actually it is just different enough that "conventional" methods don't seem to apply very well. Imagine that! I also managed to fire up a bigger pancake fan from a pentium class cooled heatsink. It took off like BOH also but with none of the audible I noted when running the one in the picture Dr. Stiffler posted for me. I did note a squealing coming from the motor and slight motion of the fan at about 6.00VDC-19ma input with LED's bright and NE glowing on 1 electrode. Attempts to measure voltage and/or current KILL it! Other than that it is very stable even with close interaction of my hand and touching individual components.

Also note that the farther I drive the tuning slug into the base coil the greater is the current draw from my supply. I'm going to try the absolutely pain staking method of tapping an air core coil in the base for tuning. I wonder if I can reduce the current draw even farther through this method. It will be a pain but I also need to know. I'm going to tune the device to maximum with a core tuned inductor and then remove that inductor from the circuit and measure it. Then hand wind an air core inductor and add tap points along the windings. Tuning by pigtail! Yep it'll suck and be a pain but I want to try to run this without that slug anywhere near the device. I have also removed all ferrite based screws from the breadboard and replaced them with aluminum.

I guess it wasn't a quick note.

Anyone who saw my earlier rant, please accept my appologies. It was uncalled for and very counter productive. I'll try to stay on topic. Sorry folks!

Much more to come, Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on April 05, 2008, 04:47:17 PM
...
The SEC Exciter that I have established as standard and used in my last video on HHO is about as wide banded as you will get. It produces very high energy output about every 5MHz from 4.6-356MHz and less useful ones much higher. Granted the low end is left out, but SEC does not work down here (unless someone has done it).

@RStiffler
Hi Doc, I wonder whether it is probable that you don't get proper spikes below 4.6 MHz because you always build such "miniature units"  ;D
Would it not just take MORE MASS to be able to get powerful oscillation at lower frequencies aka subharmonics?  With need for even more mass, the lower you look. But might this not be where the energy really hides (in oscillating mass, I mean)?

After all you yourself wrote
..... As anyone can easily see, there is a considerable increase in spectral energy with the larger tube.

@fritz
....So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodes
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage. ....
Hi fritz, I don't understand, but would like to.
So if you ever find time to explain this a bit more in detail and for the layman, I would appreciate it very much.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on April 05, 2008, 04:54:13 PM

*transient recorder and matlab would make more sense = gives
You have mentioned this before and I think I indicated (seriously) that we would be very grateful if you could do this, is this possible and would you??

Thank you for the valuable and inline with direction post.

I?m still a novice matlab user - and the only transient thing
I could use so far is my 4x100MHz Scope with a COM module
(I?m still looking for). But I?ll let you know when I?m capable of that.

Good Luck for your further research - I have to do some stupid motion
control in the next 2 wks -then there will be time to do the interesting stuff.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 05, 2008, 05:21:47 PM
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on April 05, 2008, 05:33:55 PM


@fritz
....So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodes
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage. ....
Hi fritz, I don't understand, but would like to.
So if you ever find time to explain this a bit more in detail and for the layman, I would appreciate it very much.

If we at first sight ignore the "speed" of the diode (internal intrinsinc resistance and
charge of the junction(fwd)), the diode operates as varicap if operated in reverse.
The capacitance is a function of the reverse voltage - more voltage - less capacity.
If you charge a plate capacitor with charge Q, voltage U and capacity C (Q=C*U) -
and then increase the capacity (by adusting the plates closer) - the charge inside
stays the same and the voltage goes up. Same principle is used to build amplifiers
with low noise.
In this case this effect combines with the "slow" diode - there is some charge needed
to establish the "blocking(remove fwd charge)" or "non-blocking(charge fwd)" operation of the diode - the capacity change
in this operating point is quite high (but lots of leakage).
Due to the fact that we have from manufacturing point of view no "identical" diodes,
the effects in both diodes differ, especially if operated at high frequencies - and gives
different voltage at the other ends - you can consume some power there.
Initially, the diodes charge against ambient potential(ground) until they reach the level
where the neon starts to lighten (or the threshold voltage of leds is reached).
The coil in series matches the impedance of the plug.

Basically the state of both diodes gets out of sync/differs due to the stressy excitation,
this is why we get 2 different voltages (charges) at the other end.
(this is where we mentioned the delay line issue for the simulation which gives similar
but maybe too simple effect -> better with multiple delay lines - but ..).

Anyway - reality is big - and this is only some tiny piece of what people think that
happens inside diodes - but explains
what I?ve assumed - would be cool to have some tool to simulate whats happening in
the diode.

rgds.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on April 05, 2008, 05:44:22 PM
Ups, sorry,

Q=C*U 

C>>  U<<; voltage drops if you increase capacity - but in combination with
the delay, charge, speed of the diode this might do similar. (rectifying+pumping)
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 05, 2008, 06:43:51 PM
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?

@alan
Nothing at all wrong with the idea but time! If you have a breadboard please wire up a SEC Exciter and also please let us know what your results are. At some time I'll probably try that but not just yet. I have to get a couple more identical motors before I go loading the crap out of the single items I have right now. I certainly can say that the fans I fired up per the instructions from Dr. Stiffler are definitely moving some air. I am going to install neodymium magnets on a disc, originally thought I'd measure RPM's this way with just 1 and a hall sensor, might still, but then I of course wondered if I shouldn't just add a few more and wind a stator!  ::) I don't know what the results of that would be and I don't have the time just yet.

I have some family stuff going on right now and I'm drawing the "LOOK" so I'll be back a little later.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on April 05, 2008, 07:01:56 PM
hello to all,
i want to make an observation: Asking myself where do the energy come from?
There is vortex energy all over the universe omitted by nearly everyone. When i look at nature the vortex may be the key to a lot of questions. so i made a little ( maybe stupid) experiment with a simple plasma ball where we can see the electron vortex nicely. the Led are lighting with one wire...where there is no fiscal connection except...( induction???) I'm not sure about i made some photos ,

1. the most simple setup
2. putting my finger on the coil the LED's shine much brighter
3. connecting a neon it lites up and the led are brighter

maybe there is something common with your work Dr, Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on April 05, 2008, 07:11:10 PM
The missing photos:
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 08:40:57 PM
...
The SEC Exciter that I have established as standard and used in my last video on HHO is about as wide banded as you will get. It produces very high energy output about every 5MHz from 4.6-356MHz and less useful ones much higher. Granted the low end is left out, but SEC does not work down here (unless someone has done it).

@RStiffler
Hi Doc, I wonder whether it is probable that you don't get proper spikes below 4.6 MHz because you always build such "miniature units"  ;D
Would it not just take MORE MASS to be able to get powerful oscillation at lower frequencies aka subharmonics?  With need for even more mass, the lower you look. But might this not be where the energy really hides (in oscillating mass, I mean)?

After all you yourself wrote
..... As anyone can easily see, there is a considerable increase in spectral energy with the larger tube.

@fritz
....So we are talking about 2 _DIFFERENT_ diodes
acting as pump-charged chaos amps operated by the
same "jamming" voltage. ....
Hi fritz, I don't understand, but would like to.
So if you ever find time to explain this a bit more in detail and for the layman, I would appreciate it very much.
@Gustav22
Except for a number of years ago I have not explored much below 1MHz. I did put forth some effort with the AV Plug in configurations similar to Frolov, but found nothing that was of interest to me. I did an extensive examination of from ~1kHz to 2Mhz when I was looking at what Meyer might have been doing. But the higher end is where I prefer to work, the components are smaller, easier to obtain and make and leave a total smaller footprint. I don't want to get into it here, but I do not feel it is worth my time in the lower frequency area. I have a theory, it so far is holding and I need to stay with it until it makes the grade or falls apart.

My HHO work seems to follow my SEC understanding and you must admit if it works out, its the way to go.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 08:42:27 PM

*transient recorder and matlab would make more sense = gives
You have mentioned this before and I think I indicated (seriously) that we would be very grateful if you could do this, is this possible and would you??

Thank you for the valuable and inline with direction post.

I?m still a novice matlab user - and the only transient thing
I could use so far is my 4x100MHz Scope with a COM module
(I?m still looking for). But I?ll let you know when I?m capable of that.

Good Luck for your further research - I have to do some stupid motion
control in the next 2 wks -then there will be time to do the interesting stuff.

rgds.

@Fritz
Sorry Fritz, I did not mean to put you on the spot, I must have read to much into what you said.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 05, 2008, 08:47:25 PM
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?
@alan

Hey, nothing is wrong with your idea, but it is not as simple as it sounds. Obtain a generator with know specifications, devise a coupling method. The RPM method the was proposed does work and is simple to implement. To bad EMDevices had his feelings hurt, guess mine could be, but his could not, anyway it was a good idea and only took a short amount of time to try.

When you get to the mechanical things a whole world of additional problems pop up and sometime, like with me, I'm not a great mechanical person.

Thanks, don't get upset, great idea.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 06, 2008, 02:34:44 AM
@All,
A little of the work done today. It's even lighting up the AVP in the middle of the de-energized SEC down bottom there. I think I can even post this one by myself.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 06, 2008, 02:47:15 AM
@All,
Most of everything there is, is in this state! I can explore this circuit for hours on end.

Best

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on April 06, 2008, 07:03:36 AM
Thank you fritz and and doc for your replies.

BTW, Doc, when I go to http://www.stifflerscientific.com/
and then click on the first menu item "Main Section"
the link points to
http://67.76.235.52/ce4.asp

But then I get
"The page cannot be found"
(also tried this yesterday with same result).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 06, 2008, 12:54:47 PM
The missing photos:
@aluka
I'm not kidding you when I say I've seen this with LED's in many places. Have a look at the center AV plug. In the upper left of the photograph is a SEC exciter driving an AV plug with 1 large Neon bulb. I'm working on finding the tuning for heat production. While I'm tuning I run into a spot where the center AV plug of a de-energized SEC exciter, upper right, lights up and adjusts with the tuning of the the other circuit. Do you think currents are flowing all around us all the time? I do for sure!

@All
Will be a little bit limited today due to the impending taxation deadline here in the US. I have procrastinated far too long! But I will be tweaking later, hopefully..................? I'm working on heat!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 02:08:52 PM
@Loki
I do not see a heat sink on the transistor, this is good, now shoot the temp of the transistor and the temp of the 22uh and the neon?? This will not say much, but will say a lot to m, like if the transistor is near ambient (+1->+2'C) and the 22uh is next and the neon hottest. Next of course, just to compare, what is the input.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 06, 2008, 03:24:23 PM
In my tests so far I did not notice any heat increase coming off of the transistor, 22uH or the NE2. Of course I could only use my fingers to touch the components, but should there be any heat change and does that signify proper operation or not?

I'm still struggling with proper tuning (nothing new there :) ) since I have wound several variable coils, the one that seems to behave the best is the one that has the most windings and is a bit different (about 2x more turns) than the reference design from Dr.Stiffler...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 06, 2008, 03:51:14 PM
AMIGO I saw a fellow selling new laser point thermometer on ebay 18.00 ILL try to find it I believe it only went to 250 degrees[Should be fine ]   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 06, 2008, 04:11:02 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
No heat sink required! Transistor is cool. Looked to be approximately 60F. 22uH looked to be approximately 64F. I could not get a reading on the Neon for some reason besides 58F. I have to take these readings with a black isolation surface as you have reminded me. I will do that ASAP! It is starting to look good but I'm not quite there yet! I get RF burned on the 22uH so I won't be "touching" that too much more.  ;D 20VDC at 89ma in this pic. I can and did have very similar values at much less input so what I'm telling you right now is just ballpark. Will have more precise details as soon as possible.

Best regards

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 04:16:20 PM
In my tests so far I did not notice any heat increase coming off of the transistor, 22uH or the NE2. Of course I could only use my fingers to touch the components, but should there be any heat change and does that signify proper operation or not?

I'm still struggling with proper tuning (nothing new there :) ) since I have wound several variable coils, the one that seems to behave the best is the one that has the most windings and is a bit different (about 2x more turns) than the reference design from Dr.Stiffler...
@Amigo
The simplest possible exciter, one plug and one high current neon (<1mA) when running properly will have the 22uH and Neon so Hot that unless you don't feel heat or have think skin, will burn to the touch (not rf burn or sensation from the rf) real burn from heat. When one has a temp gun some (relative temps can be checked), but they only indicate things are working, but of course can't tell how well. In this simple circuit if the transistor (without heat sink) or the 10uH get hot or even overly warm to the touch then its not running in the right mode. I have am at the point where I can pretty much tell by the color of the gas in the neon when it is close to right. I told Loki that to me it appears to be either a very bright orange with a reddish cast to it (of course here we have, do we have a standard bulb).

Some of you are having far to much trouble tuning this thing, I just can't get a handle on why, but when we are not using 100% identical parts, whats new right?

For those that don't want to purchase a PCB from me, I have decided to sell a bag of selected and correct parts that one can use on a proto board, maybe this will help, it will cost a bit above my cost to pay for the gas to have someone take it to the mail. This may help also.

@All
Loki showed something in his last picture which I have hinted at and may have a picture floating around, but that pro-boards parasitic Al backing plate is and always has been a component from the very start (page 2-5) and I just posted a couple of days ago a circuit showing how the circuit sees this plate and how all points are coupled back to every other point. Its the diagram with the orange caps of 7.5pF hooked everywhere.

When you put this thing on a PCB this has to be accounted for in the double layer design or exciter will not work in the proper mode.

ANyway Loki shows the free standing AV Plug and white LED running with no connection back to the exciter (other than the communications coupling to the Al plate). This is similar to my example of a very simple probe with a AV Plug and LED mounted on a plastic stick, except with the stick you need to directly apply to a hot spot, but the free standing plug should fire a LED anywhere on the board that sees the backing plate.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 04:18:49 PM
Thank you fritz and and doc for your replies.

BTW, Doc, when I go to http://www.stifflerscientific.com/
and then click on the first menu item "Main Section"
the link points to
http://67.76.235.52/ce4.asp

But then I get
"The page cannot be found"
(also tried this yesterday with same result).
@Gustav22

will get that fixed today, thanks for telling me

***We found a Dec. backup and it should be on in an hour or two. Seems this one did not get recovered after the little fire and machine rebuild.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 04:45:13 PM
AMIGO I saw a fellow selling new laser point thermometer on ebay 18.00 ILL try to find it I believe it only went to 250 degrees[Should be fine ]   Chet
@ramset

Yes these are great little devices, but remember it gives a relative indication for SEC, only calorimetry will give the true result.

We picked up a couple from ebay for $49US that were the same as $99 out of pro equipment web site and we got a nice case to keep them clean. I would say if anyone bought one that get one that reads some high temps or the use is somewhat limited. The ones we got read ~4->1386F and -20->750C They were ThermoTech TT1382
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 05:07:54 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
No heat sink required! Transistor is cool. Looked to be approximately 60F. 22uH looked to be approximately 64F. I could not get a reading on the Neon for some reason besides 58F. I have to take these readings with a black isolation surface as you have reminded me. I will do that ASAP! It is starting to look good but I'm not quite there yet! I get RF burned on the 22uH so I won't be "touching" that too much more.  ;D 20VDC at 89ma in this pic. I can and did have very similar values at much less input so what I'm telling you right now is just ballpark. Will have more precise details as soon as possible.

Best regards

Jim
@Loki
So when you are working in the lab you are constantly jumping up and down, waving your arms back and forth and constantly pushing the fur from the parka out of your eyes  :) Man your ambient is cold you need to get this running, you need to look at the transistor curve/temp maybe your hfe is zip  :D :D :D

@All
I sent this to Loki and will post here so you have an idea what you are looking for, the following is just a sample set of temp with a gun when ambient surrounding temp was 23.5C,

The 22uH choke ->48C
The Neon ->45C
The transistor -> 25C
The 10uH choke ->24C

Might help some in getting closer....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 05:24:06 PM
@All
Latest on HHO testing.

My 0.032" SS arrived, I wound what I wanted in electrodes and fired it up. After we hours into the morning and an empty bottle of Booths sad results.

I was getting almost nothing in gas.  started chopping and adjusting the shape of the electrodes (length) and getting only teeny weeny bubbles. I really started chopping off wire and things started to improve, the less wire the better production. At last it got to a point where I was down to a couple tips of SS.

Stopped cut a couple new lengths of the 0.018 (7 strand cable) stuck in in the dual duct setup and guess what (relative speaking) looked like twice the production. Also what was evident was how the bubble looked. On the 0.032 SS they were many times larger and were very slow to break free from the wire. On the small cable they were very small, broke free as liberated and were in massive number, so much so that you can watch a circulation current in the tube where some are pulled back down and then move back up. Will make for a good video.

So what happened and what am I saying. Sticking my short neck out here, but my first thoughts are;

1) When using a SEC Exciter, the electrodes must present a hi impedance to the exciter, this goes against the massive number of plates idea head on.

2) Adding NaCl reduces production (see 1)

3) It does not appear at all to be following Faraday. So if its not current and the voltage is not that high, then maybe SEC and its broad spectrum is indeed causing a different type of liberation (?)

any way an up to what has happened so far, headed out for the aspirin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 06, 2008, 07:34:13 PM
@Amigo
The simplest possible exciter, one plug and one high current neon (<1mA) when running properly will have the 22uH and Neon so Hot that unless you don't feel heat or have think skin, will burn to the touch (not rf burn or sensation from the rf) real burn from heat. When one has a temp gun some (relative temps can be checked), but they only indicate things are working, but of course can't tell how well. In this simple circuit if the transistor (without heat sink) or the 10uH get hot or even overly warm to the touch then its not running in the right mode. I have am at the point where I can pretty much tell by the color of the gas in the neon when it is close to right. I told Loki that to me it appears to be either a very bright orange with a reddish cast to it (of course here we have, do we have a standard bulb).

Hi Doc,

So it sounds as I am on the right track because nothing gets hot. I did notice various colours of the gas in the NE2 and I do remember seeing bright orangy-red, which looked to me like a real overdrive. :)

Otherwise, I do believe I have the exact same components, except for the coil form that you use, mine is a bit shorter and thicker. I'll post a photo of my coils today.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 06, 2008, 07:40:16 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
No heat sink required! Transistor is cool. Looked to be approximately 60F. 22uH looked to be approximately 64F. I could not get a reading on the Neon for some reason besides 58F. I have to take these readings with a black isolation surface as you have reminded me. I will do that ASAP! It is starting to look good but I'm not quite there yet! I get RF burned on the 22uH so I won't be "touching" that too much more.  ;D 20VDC at 89ma in this pic. I can and did have very similar values at much less input so what I'm telling you right now is just ballpark. Will have more precise details as soon as possible.

Best regards

Jim
@Loki
So when you are working in the lab you are constantly jumping up and down, waving your arms back and forth and constantly pushing the fur from the parka out of your eyes  :) Man your ambient is cold you need to get this running, you need to look at the transistor curve/temp maybe your hfe is zip  :D :D :D

@All
I sent this to Loki and will post here so you have an idea what you are looking for, the following is just a sample set of temp with a gun when ambient surrounding temp was 23.5C,

The 22uH choke ->48C
The Neon ->45C
The transistor -> 25C
The 10uH choke ->24C

Might help some in getting closer....

Ahem! Another quick note from Loki of the North. Taxes are DONE! Wait.........my flat panel is very dim and gets fog on it from the coffee steaming. Damn strait I'm interested in heat, out of frigging necessity! Und cold kaffe! Not to mention the gas bills! ;D ;D ;D Too bad there isn't a FMAO, as in Freezing My Ass Off little smiley, I'd use it.  ::) Yes the basement "lab" average ambient temp is 58F. I had considered that I was at the bottom of the scale, I didn't think 58F was too bad but it could certainly explain not being able to REALLY heat parts when there is a massive just above earth, literally, thermal sink all around. Something has to keep the rotwine, jah? In any case I haven't had much chance to fiddle today, yet, but I could still get into trouble yet. The day is not over! But I'm waiting on my parka to dry!  ;D I'm real sure that I can get that input power down significantly I was off, as usual, on a tangent chasing glowing AV plugs that weren't connected to anything except some freaking orange capacitors!  :) This is not the first time I've seen this with SEC or quite a few other systems as a matter of fact. Like I said before the official EE terminology is "Leakage Current". Yep, it's a leakin from somewhere, ahts fur sur! I kind of figured it was the plate C's .

@Dr. Stiffler,
Here is a shot for your review doc. Like I said I was chasing and exploring "glow plugs". I've worked at tuning to max intensity from 13VDC to what you see here at 20VDC. Current at those max points tends to run between 65ma at the 13VDC up to the 89ma at 20VDC. The component temperatures are fairly consistent +/- 2F Will get down to the business of some heat tuning over the next 24 hours or so. Too many things going on right now! It is possible that the gain is down eh? Maybe? Shall I box it up in blue foam insulation board? 23C is even above what the cold miser keeps the upstairs. She keeps the house at 66F. Damned hydrocarbon fuel prices! More to follow for sure. Doc, look at the foundation wall in my pic.........big thick rocks in dirt, it wants to stay 53F permanently. Summer rules in the lab! No AC required at all and I can circulate this upstairs. Give and Take Sir! Give and Take! You have the opposite problem no?

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 08:34:42 PM
@All

Take a look at the following pictures of a circuit I fired up to show the temp measurement and the differences. Please don't just glance, study it a bit, there is a photo message here.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 08:41:51 PM
@Amigo
The simplest possible exciter, one plug and one high current neon (<1mA) when running properly will have the 22uH and Neon so Hot that unless you don't feel heat or have think skin, will burn to the touch (not rf burn or sensation from the rf) real burn from heat. When one has a temp gun some (relative temps can be checked), but they only indicate things are working, but of course can't tell how well. In this simple circuit if the transistor (without heat sink) or the 10uH get hot or even overly warm to the touch then its not running in the right mode. I have am at the point where I can pretty much tell by the color of the gas in the neon when it is close to right. I told Loki that to me it appears to be either a very bright orange with a reddish cast to it (of course here we have, do we have a standard bulb).

Hi Doc,

So it sounds as I am on the right track because nothing gets hot. I did notice various colours of the gas in the NE2 and I do remember seeing bright orangy-red, which looked to me like a real overdrive. :)

Otherwise, I do believe I have the exact same components, except for the coil form that you use, mine is a bit shorter and thicker. I'll post a photo of my coils today.

Thanks.
@Amigo
What??
**So it sounds as I am on the right track because nothing gets hot.
What did I say wrong? Maybe it was that Booths last night.
NO! we want Heat, but only in certain places, the Neon and the 22uH choke. Want the 10uH and the xistor to say (Cool).

If I don't come across right I am sorry, maybe the old mind still moves faster than the fingers.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 06, 2008, 08:44:03 PM
Hi Doc,
so the transistor gets 1 degree Celsius colder than the environment ?
Very interesting.
Maybeyour SEC  converts environment heat into electricity ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 06, 2008, 09:21:55 PM
Hi Doc,
so the transistor gets 1 degree Celsius colder than the environment ?
Very interesting.
Maybeyour SEC  converts environment heat into electricity ?
@Stephan
Hey! You really jump right in there and don't give the others a chance.

All kidding aside, lets assume at first we have a 10% error in which case the xistor could be at the same as ambient, except the simple test as shown in the picture herein included, shows some good info. You do need a glass thermometer as the digitals develop a case of 'Can't make up my mind'. The glass one don't of course give that close of resolution, but not needed for rough work.

I don't know..... Yes I can duplicate, yes it can be measurement error, maybe the Exciter is screwing with the glass thermometer to, I don't know and have been looking into it in many ways. This is why we need replications. Looks like we can replicate light, motors, and now a few HHO, but no one is yet at the stage I'm showing here. Maybe tommorow  >:(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 06, 2008, 09:53:42 PM
@Amigo
What??
**So it sounds as I am on the right track because nothing gets hot.
What did I say wrong? Maybe it was that Booths last night.
NO! we want Heat, but only in certain places, the Neon and the 22uH choke. Want the 10uH and the xistor to say (Cool).

If I don't come across right I am sorry, maybe the old mind still moves faster than the fingers.

I'm sorry Doc, it's probably me - not having a great day here. :(

My GBC laminator that I use for PCBs broke (motor failed) and I was in the middle of making a LC meter so now I'm pretty pissed off because I hoped to have it all assembled and programmed to use for the SEC coils.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 06, 2008, 10:29:30 PM
@amigo
Sorry to hear you are having trouble -- keep at it!

@all
Great photographs and comments!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 07, 2008, 04:01:25 AM
Thanks Feynman,

Good news is that a failed laminator can't stop me from making a PCB. I did it the old fashion way with the iron, just had to make a mental note never to buy cheap-ass Staples brand toners for my laser printer. Next time I'll just pay those extra $20 and get a genuine HP toner, bah. :)

So I made the LC meter and it worked right away, just that calibration appears to be tricky and I definitely need to enclose it into a box. I was hoping I could just use it right away and check my SEC coils...hum bug, till tomorrow then.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on April 07, 2008, 08:09:50 AM
Hi Doc,
so the transistor gets 1 degree Celsius colder than the environment ?
Very interesting.
May be your SEC  converts environment heat into electricity ?

Hi Doc,
it would be nice if you could get closer to proove Harti's thought.
In order to do this, it might make sense to mount the transistor on a "heat sink". But not to transport heat away, but to provide the transistor with a heat conducting environment which supplies/replaces the converted heat.
Maybe you even want to supply additional heat to this "heat sink" so that the transistor has a good heat supply to work from.

Not sure if this "heat sink" should be from metal as this might ruin your "capacitance network".
Could maybe try some non-metallic heat conductor like stone/granite !?

Or just place the transistor close to the neon, so that it gets heated up by the neon's heat.

Sorry if this does not make sense. Just dreaming.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 07, 2008, 01:14:33 PM
@All
I have much better heat this morning. I managed to get the neon up to 96F, the 22uH choke 92F, while the transistor ran around 82F and my homemade 10uH choke running at 80F. 

Another quick check shows the neon at 97.5F, 22uh at 90F, the transistor at 82F and the 10uH at 80F.

It's beginning to look alot like a heater. The 22uH and the Neon are quite warm to the touch while the transistor and 10Uh feel cool.

More to follow for sure but I have go to work, DAMN IT!

Best regards,

Jim

Hot Damn 98.5F and climbing on the neon..........I'm going be late work!  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 07, 2008, 01:24:18 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
Neon 101.5F, 22uH 88F, Transistor 82F, 10uH 81F.
Sound a little more like it?

Oh...wait.......102.5 with supply current GOING DOWN! HOLY FREAKING SHIT! How do things get hotter with supply current decreasing.  :o :o :o

I'm late.....SHIT!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 07, 2008, 02:45:22 PM
@Loki ... sounds like you are reaching resonense with the collected scalar energy ... course this is just my thinking .. I am still needing to get mine up and running .. missing a few parts.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 07, 2008, 02:49:35 PM
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?
@alan

Hey, nothing is wrong with your idea, but it is not as simple as it sounds. Obtain a generator with know specifications, devise a coupling method. The RPM method the was proposed does work and is simple to implement. To bad EMDevices had his feelings hurt, guess mine could be, but his could not, anyway it was a good idea and only took a short amount of time to try.

When you get to the mechanical things a whole world of additional problems pop up and sometime, like with me, I'm not a great mechanical person.

Thanks, don't get upset, great idea.

Yeah, easier said than done, especially forum observers have easy talk.  ;D
Wish I could do it myself, but it is hard to work without a scope, still going to give your work a try in the near future.

Before, I asked if slowing down the fan has any effect on the inputpower, do you know if this is the case or do you want to try it? If it does not affect input, then that is a hint to overunity
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 07, 2008, 05:10:39 PM
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?
@alan

Hey, nothing is wrong with your idea, but it is not as simple as it sounds. Obtain a generator with know specifications, devise a coupling method. The RPM method the was proposed does work and is simple to implement. To bad EMDevices had his feelings hurt, guess mine could be, but his could not, anyway it was a good idea and only took a short amount of time to try.

When you get to the mechanical things a whole world of additional problems pop up and sometime, like with me, I'm not a great mechanical person.

Thanks, don't get upset, great idea.

Yeah, easier said than done, especially forum observers have easy talk.  ;D
Wish I could do it myself, but it is hard to work without a scope, still going to give your work a try in the near future.

Before, I asked if slowing down the fan has any effect on the inputpower, do you know if this is the case or do you want to try it? If it does not affect input, then that is a hint to overunity
@alan
My motor can be restrained and fully stopped without seeing a difference in source input, I hope some of the others will answer you also on this. There is of course a difference observed when the motor is connected and disconnected, this is a load matching difference, also the removal of the motor with out removal of the choke it is across will affect the brightness of the following LEDs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 07, 2008, 05:14:59 PM
The missing photos:
@aluka

I wish I had your little globe to play with, I find what you did to be interesting although maybe not hard to understand from the SEC theory. Would you be willing to trey something simple and report back to us on the results??

What I would like to know is what happens when you remove that inductor and just use two 1N4148's as an AV Plug. Can you still get the LEDs to light??

Thanks, very good picture and an interesting experiment.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 07, 2008, 05:27:25 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
Neon 101.5F, 22uH 88F, Transistor 82F, 10uH 81F.
Sound a little more like it?

Oh...wait.......102.5 with supply current GOING DOWN! HOLY FREAKING SHIT! How do things get hotter with supply current decreasing.  :o :o :o

I'm late.....SHIT!

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki
Well I think you are now getting close to the hard work ;D

Need to transfer the circuit to something that will fit inside a calorimeter and still have it putting out heat. A slight problem now is how to build a small calorimeter that will make the crowd somewhat happy in the readings, if not accepting.

@All
In our calorimetry results something sticks out and remains to be resolved. When the whole circuit is placed in a chamber (insulated) with a heat exchanger, the chamber of course heats along with the other mass used in the construction. Now the circuit heats as the chamber heats and we have found that (at first) a great volume of heat is detected, then it starts to tapper off as the chamber increases in temperature. So far the idea is that the circuit is being detuned, capacitor shifting value, transistor specs changing, etc., but now what about if the transistor is doing some left field impossible thing like cooling? Could it be that there is a cooling that offsets the heat and thereby explaining the decline as time moves forward. Just a thought now and adding to what is taking place that we see such a beginning output that then starts to decline.

Food for thought and exploration!! as it still is not known if any cooling is really present.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on April 07, 2008, 06:01:15 PM
just for reference:

Copper has a positive temperature coefficient of
approx 0.4% per Kelvin, alpha=3.9e-3.

Don?t know if using Konstantan (Cu84Ni4Mn12) is
an option for the coils. alpha +/- 0.04e-3

hfe of the MPSA06 might have a positive temperature
coefficient of up to 15e-3/K.

rgds.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 07, 2008, 07:08:34 PM
Dr. Stiffler:

This is possibly a stupid question but, in view of the calorimetry anomalies you are experiencing why could you not just continue to use your hand-held temperature sensor?  What I mean by this, and I know they are not totally accurate, is if every component on the sec device is at ambient temperature prior to any test, and then you run it and take temperature readings of all of the components, including the transistor, any deviation from the baseline ambient would require a power output would it not?  Say the transistor is 3 degrees cooler than it was at the beginning of the test, well that shows power output right, as in a peltier junction?  I guess what I am getting at is that it takes energy to heat or cool something (to change its temperature state) and by adding up all of the changes (+ or -) of all the components, I would think this would give you a more accurate look at what is going on than having the transistor's cooling negate the heat you are making elsewhere.  Feel free to delete this if you think it is too stupid a suggestion as it could quite possibly be.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 07, 2008, 07:37:23 PM
Dr. Stiffler:

This is possibly a stupid question but, in view of the calorimetry anomalies you are experiencing why could you not just continue to use your hand-held temperature sensor?  What I mean by this, and I know they are not totally accurate, is if every component on the sec device is at ambient temperature prior to any test, and then you run it and take temperature readings of all of the components, including the transistor, any deviation from the baseline ambient would require a power output would it not?  Say the transistor is 3 degrees cooler than it was at the beginning of the test, well that shows power output right, as in a peltier junction?  I guess what I am getting at is that it takes energy to heat or cool something (to change its temperature state) and by adding up all of the changes (+ or -) of all the components, I would think this would give you a more accurate look at what is going on than having the transistor's cooling negate the heat you are making elsewhere.  Feel free to delete this if you think it is too stupid a suggestion as it could quite possibly be.  Thanks.

Bill
@Pirate88179
I wish it were easy as it might sound, yet unless you totally isolated the device under test within an Adiabatic container and knowing its specific heat value and confirming after some form of calibration, the measurements are meaningless. The surrounding environment most likely will be at a temperature less than the device under test, therefor energy will flow from the higher to the lower. This difference must be accounted for. Drafts, ambient heat, device color and positioning to other objects much be taken into consideration.

A good example would be Loki in his basement lab with ambient temp around 58F, the device not being in an enclosure tries to raise his basement temp and for the surface temp to reach a specific temp would take more energy than if the surroundings were say 78F, so how would one go about calibration? Can you begin to see why it is isolated in a well insulated chamber?

In addition the chamber and all its components as well as the heat exchanger have some specific heat value which will distort you reading, one needs to place the circuit in the chamber and with a known input power record the temperature change in the water (1cal=1'C to make it easy and 1cal=4.187Joules) for a period of time until equilibrium is reached/ At this point the temp of the water will tell the amount of energy absorbed to get it there subtracted from the input, yields the heat in the other components. This is the offset. Now you run the circuit (without changing anything, or you would have to recalibrate). You run the circuit, measure the water temp and using the input and the calibration offset, determine the amount of energy given off by the circuit.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 07, 2008, 07:50:50 PM
@Pirate88179

I forgot to say this in my last answer to you.

I'm not having problems per say with the calorimetry, the problem if we would call it that is that the circuit has shown factors of <1 to >5 and it does decline as time moves on. The problem is that once its inside the chamber, one is not able to see if adjustment will correct the condition. If it were not that it would be a great bit of engineering I would like to have some kind of auto tuning control and a video camera in there, hell maybe (  ;) ) the transistor is frosting up  ???. Although the chamber is not only insulated it is constructed to also be a Faraday Cage, there is so much RF inside that it was a real trick to get the active temp sensors to work properly in the chamber. Not to mention you don't want to run a bundle of wires from the circuit outside for measurement, anything hung on a SEC Exciter causes real problems and does not provide real time operational information.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on April 07, 2008, 09:26:15 PM
@Pirate88179

I forgot to say this in my last answer to you.

I'm not having problems per say with the calorimetry, the problem if we would call it that is that the circuit has shown factors of <1 to >5 and it does decline as time moves on. The problem is that once its inside the chamber, one is not able to see if adjustment will correct the condition. If it were not that it would be a great bit of engineering I would like to have some kind of auto tuning control and a video camera in there, hell maybe (  ;) ) the transistor is frosting up  ???. Although the chamber is not only insulated it is constructed to also be a Faraday Cage, there is so much RF inside that it was a real trick to get the active temp sensors to work properly in the chamber. Not to mention you don't want to run a bundle of wires from the circuit outside for measurement, anything hung on a SEC Exciter causes real problems and does not provide real time operational information.

I think a logical step could be to isolate exciter and load part -> means
just measure the energy from the av plug and try to keep all "outdoor" exciter stuff cool -
The only way to keep the exciter cool would be to reduce the losses of the 22uH coil to minimum
by using different coil with higherQ - using wire with bigger diameter/different core!?
this could even mean to use different transistor(...)

Anyway - difficult task - I think that the heating up of the 22uH coil should
be avoided - from entire system point of view - its just!? matching the load to the exciter -
and from efficiency point of view - its on the minus side.

I think that the transistor plays somehow the role of a "starter" or "maintainer" of
something - thats why it doesnt warm up. Maybe its just "pumping up" the system
until a power path is established between the av plug and the coils.
(sounds quite similar to bedini things hehe ?)

If you ignore the av plug - and just simulate the exciter - the MPSA06 should
have a power dissipation of about 540mW (according to my spice model) -
which would result in warming up to 60K above room temperature and even more.

Keep in mind that diodes are "active" components - even if they have no
base nor gate.

rgds.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 07, 2008, 09:47:00 PM
@All the next HHO test requires a little extra work. I found the Nylon coating on the (7) strand SS wire was not that good, a number of microscopic leaks that evolve gas. To correct this the cable was pulled through a Teflon sleeve and epoxy was used to insure no water backed up into the sleeve, (the end was sealed). The strands were spread out and a small drop of epoxy was placed in the center of the display so the wires shaping would be held in place.

The following two pictures show the electrode alone and then the electrode in comparison with a US Dime. Both photos were taken through a 3X magnifier lens.

This is the first step, prep the electrode. More to come.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 08, 2008, 12:11:30 AM
Dr. Stiffler:

I think your idea regarding investigating possible cooling is a good one...  I noticed that on the graphs where you have this initial bump followed by what almost looks like equalization as time goes on.  To me, I could see that as either as some sort of "thermal equilibrium" with one or more components, or possibly as an "RF/oscillation equilibrium" as mentioned before...   

just my 2c ;)

The new electrode looks great by the way.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 08, 2008, 12:31:46 AM
@All,
And a damned fine heatsink it is!  ;D Curse'd cold pit, until mid June, when it's 90+ outside. The move upstairs was a wise one! Heat working now! When I had to split for work this morning it was 102.5F and rising on the neon. With current just sliding off to 34ma or 35ma with input voltage of 22.25 VDC. I do believe thats running on the edge of the transistor but Hell I bought 100 of them! Man I'm going back there soon! Will update after I fire this thing up!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 08, 2008, 12:45:01 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler:

Yes, I see it is more complex than I was making it out to be.  The only other thing I can think of would be to build two temperature measuring enclosures and somehow have the transistor in the "cold" one and the rest of the circuit in the "hot" one.  Maybe (probably) not possible.  This is just so fascinating to me.  But, you are working on cutting edge stuff so, I guess it is normal to have to blaze your own way through it.

Thanks

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 08, 2008, 12:47:15 AM
@Plengo

You did a great job on the videos, how or should I comment, well great work.

I do think that you might be a bit less sensitive if you removed some of the stray capacity, simple like maybe get it on one board and shorten the wires. Otherwise you got it all running. Looking forward to your battery test, I have not had meaningful results trying this, but I have plenty of hope.

I would like some additional info on what was going on when you turned your scope off to change the SEC operation? If I understand you had no physical connection to the device, you removed the probe and ground???

I'm interested as it fits well into my theory, but I have not experienced a similar even as yet. You could mail me direct as its not pertinent to the thread at this time, just might help with my paper.

Thanks for all the work.................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: powercat on April 08, 2008, 02:11:33 AM
What is wrong with my idea of putting a generator to the motor to convert the event to regular current, since no-one is responding to my comment?
@alan

Hey, nothing is wrong with your idea, but it is not as simple as it sounds. Obtain a generator with know specifications, devise a coupling method. The RPM method the was proposed does work and is simple to implement. To bad EMDevices had his feelings hurt, guess mine could be, but his could not, anyway it was a good idea and only took a short amount of time to try.

When you get to the mechanical things a whole world of additional problems pop up and sometime, like with me, I'm not a great mechanical person.

Thanks, don't get upset, great idea.

Yeah, easier said than done, especially forum observers have easy talk.  ;D
Wish I could do it myself, but it is hard to work without a scope, still going to give your work a try in the near future.

Before, I asked if slowing down the fan has any effect on the inputpower, do you know if this is the case or do you want to try it? If it does not affect input, then that is a hint to overunity
@alan
My motor can be restrained and fully stopped without seeing a difference in source input, I hope some of the others will answer you also on this. There is of course a difference observed when the motor is connected and disconnected, this is a load matching difference, also the removal of the motor with out removal of the choke it is across will affect the brightness of the following LEDs.

Hi alan & doc
Generator,  maybe a small stepper motor..(used in old computer printers)
Plastic DriveShaft to avoid interference.
I got this on generating electricity with stepper motors    http://www.c-realevents.demon.co.uk/steppers/stepmotor.htm (http://www.c-realevents.demon.co.uk/steppers/stepmotor.htm)

Are there any results on running on 12v DC or 24v DC ?

Can you run more then one motor ?

Loving the SEC Exciter
pc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on April 08, 2008, 02:37:24 AM
@ Loki
Yes you are right, i think. i?m thinking that the diode is creating an electical vortex, two diodes in different direction are creating flow!
do you know the vortex tube? or Maxwell?s devil? Two temperatures from one tube. You have to create the same effect with the diodes and the SEC. I made a Photo with a neon tube conected only by one side for you. We are all looking right now ( remember the TPU is  a turnig magnetic field).



 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on April 08, 2008, 02:54:11 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler,

Yes it shines brightly and much more..... The plasma ball is driven by 4,8V Batteries ( negative resistor...) I think this circuit sucks energy to the plasma ball where the electron vortex increase the draw drastically. The voltage is very high even without fiscal connection. On another bigger model it reaches easy 700 V. The basic difference to the SEC  is that it needs no tuning because of the drag of the electron vortexes.
the grey meter is a magnetic field analyser. It drops when there is flow !! i can not explain this till now. When the Voltmeter try to measure the little neon switch off. When you touch the open end it bites...:) and it shines brighter.

here some photos

1. The first just as you asked, it works fine.
2. not touching the neon
3. touching the neon
4. trying to measure voltage and the electric field strengh


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 08, 2008, 03:12:47 AM
@aluka and All,
Sweet! That is quite interesting! I have been playing with driving a high speed Cockroft Walton using one of my SEC boards. I'll have more success maybe now that I know what I have to do with the capacitance. Plasma is awesome and I'm betting it won't be too awful long before I have my heat output very close to Dr Stifflers. 109F on the neon and 110F on the 22 uH choke tonight with 83F on the transistor and 80F on the 10 uH coil. Running 23.25 VDC / 46.5ma input from DC supply measurements not optimized via short leads and additional decoupling. I'll be investigating this in preparation for calorimetry runs along with sensors and DAQ's. I have a lot of work to do. Keep it up aluka! Very Nice indeed!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 08, 2008, 03:05:11 PM
@powercat
Thanks for the link, should be helpful.
(lol @ your avatar)

@drstiffler
Need to find out if torque decreases or stays equal if rpm decreases, as a cause of loading.

Quite informative for those unfamiliar with the concept, like me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque

@aluka
I'd say, current is induced in the cable by the EM field created by the ball.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 08, 2008, 07:17:43 PM
@All
Those that have a running exciter that was used in the last examples (chained AV Plugs with Neon) can look at two additional tests if you have the required equipment.

1) This test only requires a change in how the chain is built. My example and I believe those that replicated it, coupled between the chains from the Cathodes of each preceding Plug. To add additional stability and reduce sensitivity to external capacity, alternate from Cathode and Anode. SO from the first Plug couple from the Cathode then from this Plug couple to the next from the Anode. There should be no major difference in tuning or input, but stability should be added.

2) This requires two (identical) current meters and a couple 8V or a 12v and a 6v in series. You want a voltage of around 16-18v, (24 will be to much). Place one meter in the + leg from the batteries and the second in the - leg. Make sure nothing is connected to the Al backing plate on the proto-board. Tune you circuit for max LED output and let it run for a couple minutes. You should see a current of 38-48mA. *NOTE both meters should read the same, if not be sure nothing is touching or connected to the backing plate.

Now when the unit is tuned and both meters read the same, connect an (Earth) ground to the Al (backing) plate. So what do your meters read???

Those that can do this please do and report the results. (Yes) you can do this with a grid power supply, but far to many variables enter into the result. Use the battery approach.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 09, 2008, 12:31:59 AM
I know this might not be exactly on topic, but I had to show how mesmerizing this NE2 glow is - both electrodes are lit up pretty bright using just four small LMD analog networks (2x10mH + 2x0.0056uF each, based on Eric Dollard's research) driven from a square wave source at about 92KHz giving me at the other end ~200Vpp sine wave that lights the NE2 all the way. :)

OK, back to SEC now...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on April 09, 2008, 02:32:22 AM
@ Alan

Thats what I thought first too, Alan but there is only ONE cable not two...and... the electromagnetic field meter shows 0.80NT ( that is ambiance magnetic field). The setup was simple but look at the attached Photo...it is astonishing what this little Battery driven plasma ball is capable off... do you really think this is done from one turn one cable induction?.... :)...
My goal is to feed the little ball with it`s own energy output.....i know 2nd law....maxwell.... but think about vortex tubes, they are a violation too...and i think Dr. Stifflers work is the key.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 09, 2008, 02:22:13 PM
DR STIFFLER an AMAZING   amount of talent  and Ideas you have around you here  can we order today ?  thanks Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 09, 2008, 04:54:25 PM
DR STIFFLER an AMAZING   amount of talent  and Ideas you have around you here  can we order today ?  thanks Chet
@ramset
I screwed up and when I placed my board order we ordered a number of different boards (some not involved in SEC) I did not realize I did not uncheck the box that said send complete order only, as a result we are still waiting for boards, they could arrive today or tomorrow, the maker says all are in the chain and baring mishap will be out soon.

Sorry, but it pays to pay attention  >:(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Charlie_V on April 09, 2008, 07:11:03 PM
*Removed* by RStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lakes on April 09, 2008, 09:32:52 PM
I would have pointed him to your website Dr S.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Charlie_V on April 10, 2008, 12:59:25 AM
*Removed* by RStiffler

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Charlie_V on April 10, 2008, 01:45:43 AM
Your setup is very interesting RStiffler.  It resembles almost exactly what Tesla was doing in Colorado springs except you are using MHz instead of kHz.  An oscillator is used to drive a coil into resonance.  The difference is you place diodes at the top terminal - which seem to convert the reactive AC to DC.  Your coils would probably work better if you designed them to have higher Q.  In a graph on your website, you show the energy increase as you approach ~12MHz.  I'm not sure how much wire your using in your secondary, but I would imagine it is close to 18 feet - since this makes a quarter wavelength with 12MHz and would give the maximum potential at the top terminal where you place diodes. 

It would work even better if you made your primary and secondary a regular transformer and placed a high Q "extra coil" outside of the inductive coupling of the secondary - attached to the secondary of course.  You should be impressing standing waves along your secondary.  Properly tuned only reactive power would be generated, with very little real power.  The dependence on capacity is exactly as Tesla showed it as well.

I'll have to think about why converting reactive AC to DC would "extract ether" energy.  I would think pulling any energy from the coil oscillation would dampen the resonance.  In Tesla's system it did, but then again he didn't have diodes. 

Stop removing my posts,

Thanks,
Charlie
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 10, 2008, 02:50:44 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen,
What do you think I'm going to try with this contraption?  ;D I'm designing and laying out the stator now. I hope to have windings completed and installed by the weekend. When I made motor runs, this motor in fact, it was buzzing full tilt with definite torque, moving a really decent amount of air. I just can't help myself!  8) I'm an old Army generator wrench!  8) I've been making juice for many years so I figure I'll give this a whirl while I'm waiting on my parts order. I got a big bunch of new neon's, more chokes, and 100 more 4148's. Enjoy and I will update as the project progresses.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 10, 2008, 03:03:28 AM
Your setup is very interesting RStiffler.  It resembles almost exactly what Tesla was doing in Colorado springs except you are using MHz instead of kHz.  An oscillator is used to drive a coil into resonance.  The difference is you place diodes at the top terminal - which seem to convert the reactive AC to DC.  Your coils would probably work better if you designed them to have higher Q.  In a graph on your website, you show the energy increase as you approach ~12MHz.  I'm not sure how much wire your using in your secondary, but I would imagine it is close to 18 feet - since this makes a quarter wavelength with 12MHz and would give the maximum potential at the top terminal where you place diodes. 

It would work even better if you made your primary and secondary a regular transformer and placed a high Q "extra coil" outside of the inductive coupling of the secondary - attached to the secondary of course.  You should be impressing standing waves along your secondary.  Properly tuned only reactive power would be generated, with very little real power.  The dependence on capacity is exactly as Tesla showed it as well.

I'll have to think about why converting reactive AC to DC would "extract ether" energy.  I would think pulling any energy from the coil oscillation would dampen the resonance.  In Tesla's system it did, but then again he didn't have diodes. 

Stop removing my posts,

Thanks,
Charlie
Your posts will be kept if appropriate for this thread and are not composed of rants and raves.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 10, 2008, 03:13:11 AM
Charlie, you sound like you have some stuff to contribute, but you really should replicate the circuits !    ;)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 10, 2008, 03:43:23 AM
@All

Thought you might like to see what you can do with the basic SEC driver board if you fully populate it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Charlie_V on April 10, 2008, 05:23:46 AM
I'm in the process of building a Tesla Magnifier of a smaller size than what Tesla used in Colorado Springs (my primary has a 5 foot diameter).  My goal is to transmit energy from the oscillator to a receiver coil using a single wire connection.  My next goal will be to replace the single wire connection with the ground and repeat the experiment.  My Tesla Magnifier works very similar to the circuit Stiffler has laid out here, except I'm using a thyratron to switch a 30kV DC power supply, oscillating my primary tank circuit at 500kHz.  I'm not sure what Stiffler is calling his secondary coil (the top loaded diode coil), but that coil should be of the utmost importance!

Pre-1899, Tesla made his magnifiers like the classic text-book Tesla coil, a primary loosely coupled to a secondary.  During the Colorado Springs experiments, he discovered that its better to have 2 coils in the secondary.  The first coil, designated "the secondary", does not resonate and inductively couples to the primary (by "does not resonate" I mean it's geometry is not wavelength dependent - it makes a standard turns ratio transformer).  Its soul purpose is to collect as much energy as possible from the primary circuit.  The second coil, designated "the extra coil", is the one tuned to 1/4 wavelength and specially coiled to have a very low internal capacity - making it act closer to an ideal inductor.  The magnifying factor, as Tesla called it, for these coils was given by

                                                                  Magnifying Factor = 2Ï€*f*L/R

where f is the frequency (in Hertz), L is the inductance (in Henry), and R is the coil's wire resistance (in Ohms).  The coil I'm currently building should be around 18,000.  Its a fairly large coil though, 1 foot in diameter and 3 feet tall. 

On page 357 of the Colorado Spring Notes, Tesla does exactly what Stiffler is doing.  Only Tesla used an incandescent light bulb instead of a LED - for obvious reasons haha!   So far, the only difference I see between the two setups are the diodes.  What is interesting about this is, as you can see in the formula above, R is bad.  If you add a resistive load, aka have a coil of thin wire or place a resistive load on the line, it will reduce the magnifying factor.  Tesla found this value doesn't necessarily need to be large, as long as its big enough to secure proper voltage on the top terminal - in one instance the value was as low as 100 and it still worked. 

Now a diode might be different.  I'm not sure what the equivalent resistance of a diode is, but I know they drop atleast 0.7 volts to operate.  0.7 volts is small compared to what you can put on the top terminal of that coil!  Whats even better, some diodes can possess a negative resistance regime.  So at the very least, top loading your magnifying coil with diodes shouldn't really hurt your magnifying factor - I don't think anyway.  And if you can excite the nonlinearity of the diode, you might be able to "suck" energy from the surroundings? 

Stiffler, your coils appear to have a low magnifying factor.  I wonder what would happen if you increased it?  Perhaps move them away from the inductive coupling of the primary - maybe weave the coils on a frame to reduce self capacitance and get rid of the core.  Another thing, I believe this phenomenon should work at any frequency, only the size of the device will get larger as the frequency decreases. 

Something I read earlier confused me.  Stiffler told some guy that you have to have a Thomas oscillator or something like that.  Wouldn't this work with any oscillator, as long as the primary and secondary circuits are tuned to the same frequency and have mismatching impedances (aka tuned to excite only reactive power)?

When my Magnifier is finished, I will try some of these experiments.  My power supply is 30kV DC but its variable, I can drop it to 5 volts if need be.  So I'll be able to experiment and see if I can get similar results at 500kHz.  Unfortunately, I might have to use vacuum tubes or something a tad more grand since I don't think diodes will work at the voltages my oscillator will ring at. 

So in response to Feynman, yes I will be building a variation of the circuits presented hear - only larger and less high tech. 

I'll keep you posted,
Charlie
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AhuraMazda on April 10, 2008, 11:23:39 AM
Charlie
I have seen 100s of Tesla coils all emitting huge sparks etc. So, where is this magnification that you talk about?
The bottom line is we want magnification of power input and wouldn't some one had spotted it by now?
I can understand your coil project is very exciting but, will it do something that other Tesla coils don't?
Are all these coilers missing something?

It is beyond the capability of many people to tinker with Tesla coils but I think Dr Stiffler's cut-down approach
is quite refreshing and of course can be scaled up once the power magnification is proved. For many people like me
perhaps we are re-discovering the works of the master (Tesla) in a round about way.

AM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 10, 2008, 01:53:48 PM
Charlie
I have seen 100s of Tesla coils all emitting huge sparks etc. So, where is this magnification that you talk about?
The bottom line is we want magnification of power input and wouldn't some one had spotted it by now?
I can understand your coil project is very exciting but, will it do something that other Tesla coils don't?
Are all these coilers missing something?

It is beyond the capability of many people to tinker with Tesla coils but I think Dr Stiffler's cut-down approach
is quite refreshing and of course can be scaled up once the power magnification is proved. For many people like me
perhaps we are re-discovering the works of the master (Tesla) in a round about way.

AM
@Charle_V

THIS IS NOT A TESLA THREAD! I do not intend to have this thread turned into Tesla.

Please restrict your posts to the subject matter that is covered here. I am not and will not support Tesla on this thread.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Charlie_V on April 10, 2008, 02:28:28 PM
Sorry, I was just saying that the two technologies appear almost the same, except for frequencies, size, and diodes.  Stiffler, if you can point out what else, other than these 3 things, please do.  I'm not trying to make this a Tesla thread, but it your circuits are modernized copies of his!  In one of your circuits, you add inductors to create "delay", that also adds to the wire length and brings the secondary out of lumped circuitry domain.  I'd like to ask you where yours are different - besides the three things I listed.  It would be neat if I could take the setup I'm constructing and tweak it to make a larger version of your setup.

@AhuraMazda,

The problem with Tesla coilers is that they design their coils to generate sparks... only sparks.  The Tesla coil was not really meant for that purpose.  If you want to make sparks, you'll put a large capacity (toroid, sphere, etc.) on the top of your coil, the bigger the better.  If you want to transmit energy (which is the real purpose) you'll have to place a very small capacity - or none at all.  If you want me to elaborate further, send me a message. 

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on April 10, 2008, 02:39:15 PM
@ Dr. Stiffler

Very interesting well thought layout,.
I an not wait to have one....:) so everyone can work under the same basic concept.
Please keep us informed when it is finally available.
I would like to reserve one

Aluka
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 10, 2008, 03:10:14 PM
Sorry, I was just saying that the two technologies appear almost the same, except for frequencies, size, and diodes.  Stiffler, if you can point out what else, other than these 3 things, please do.  I'm not trying to make this a Tesla thread, but it your circuits are modernized copies of his!  In one of your circuits, you add inductors to create "delay", that also adds to the wire length and brings the secondary out of lumped circuitry domain.  I'd like to ask you where yours are different - besides the three things I listed.  It would be neat if I could take the setup I'm constructing and tweak it to make a larger version of your setup.

@AhuraMazda,

The problem with Tesla coilers is that they design their coils to generate sparks... only sparks.  The Tesla coil was not really meant for that purpose.  If you want to make sparks, you'll put a large capacity (toroid, sphere, etc.) on the top of your coil, the bigger the better.  If you want to transmit energy (which is the real purpose) you'll have to place a very small capacity - or none at all.  If you want me to elaborate further, send me a message. 


@Charlie_V
**Sorry, I was just saying that the two technologies appear almost the same, except for frequencies, size, and diodes.  Stiffler, if you can point out what else, other than these 3 things, please do.  I'm not trying to make this a Tesla thread, but it your circuits are modernized copies of his! 

Charlie you are wrong and I will not be provoked any further, if you insist on this approach then I will have no option than REMOVE all of your future posts.

We would welcome you here in the direction we are all working, not SOME DREAM that every circuit is a Tesla child. Please use some common sense an 'Cease This Direction'

This is the final word on it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 11, 2008, 01:02:00 AM
@ Charlie V ...

I like some of your thinking ... start a new thread and I will post some more thoughts on it from what I have seen ... as I agree with the Dr.  .. it took me forever to wade through the whole thread to come to this point.   It would take someone else time and could confuse them.

@ the DR .... could you publish the spec on the coil ? .. if you already have sorry ... my brain is leaking more then it should be.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 11, 2008, 01:36:44 AM
@ Charlie V ...

I like some of your thinking ... start a new thread and I will post some more thoughts on it from what I have seen ... as I agree with the Dr.  .. it took me forever to wade through the whole thread to come to this point.   It would take someone else time and could confuse them.

@ the DR .... could you publish the spec on the coil ? .. if you already have sorry ... my brain is leaking more then it should be.  Thanks.
@nickle989

See http://67.76.235.52/DrStiffler/coils.htm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 11, 2008, 02:32:59 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler .. thank you ... the ferite core is it hollow down the centre or just at the top for the adjustment? ... I have seen some that are hollow is the reason I ask. Thanks

@Group ... I broke down and pickup a plasma globe (still trying to get my SEC going) ... found the same results that Aluka was seeing .. the scope was reading a Square 20kHz wave.  I was even getting a very dim lit led almost a foot away on the board with the SEC diode arangement.  As I touch the led it would light up brighter.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 11, 2008, 12:36:00 PM
@All,
It should be another interesting weekend. Since I don't have my new neon bulbs to melt down I'll have to try this critter. So on the list for Sat/Sun is the little alternator experiment, the alternating cathode / anode chained AV plug connections, and IF I can get my hands on a couple of, 8VDC or so, batteries the floating Al plate VS the earth grounded plate experiment. I am interested to see if a couple of Fluke DMM's have similar enough impedances to execute this test with. Of course I also want to see Dr. Stiffler's point too. Here are some shots of the final assembly of a little 3 phase alternator. Next I will add a PC board on the back of the alternator to terminate each of the six stator windings. I'm going to install .100 dual row header so I can configure and reconfigure the winding topology. I wonder if AV plugs will work here? Hmmmm? Needless to say I won't get much rest this weekend.  ;D I wonder what will happen if...... ;)  8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 11, 2008, 03:29:53 PM
I finally got my orders from Jameco including the Forms, new neons and inductors more in line with Dr's specs. Weekend is almost here and more free time at hand to comence experiments again.

Today by sheer conincidence when I turned on my SEC there was an LED on the table laying there that by sheer luck touched a combination of chokes and the back plate of the board where SEC is running and the LED was lit, very interesting.

And yesterday while running SEC there was another board with many LEDS and AV plugs connected. That second board was totally separated from SEC and it was about 1 feet away, but as soons as SEC would run the LEDS on the other board would light up too, very strange. Almost like transmission of power throwgh the air.

I wish I had a camera at that second to record it. I will try to replicate it again.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 11, 2008, 05:43:10 PM
@jim: this idea is exactly what I had in mind, looking forward to the results  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 11, 2008, 05:43:20 PM
@All

I have placed another PCB Order and am now accepting advance payment if you want one.

Some boards will be under reservation, without delivery date guarantee (in other words if you only reserve one) and the paid orders take all the shipment, there will be no more left to ship upon reserved payment. This does not mean that if you reserve one you will not get one, it means you may not get one on the next ship date.

Please read the Disclaimer. SEC is not a toy, so fully understand the problems that can evolve with its use.

Thanks

http://www.drstiffler.com/

go to the bottom of the page for the link.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on April 12, 2008, 02:00:24 AM
@ Loki

That is an incredible good idea, I would like to have one ....
you are on the way...i think...great work.

aluka
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 12, 2008, 06:03:02 AM
Hi Doc,
I purchased one full board via PayPal.
Many thanks for making these available,
so we all could compare results.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 12, 2008, 07:01:09 AM
I must confess that I am puzzle with what i found out. Watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxMPPOy35H4) and you will see why.

Dr. Stiffler, can your theory account for that? I bet you can. When are you planning to share with us your theory?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on April 12, 2008, 12:44:30 PM
@All
I do not imagine any of the SEC operation makes much sense to most people because we are always looking for the "current" flow and we equate this with work being done. What we should be looking for is the capacitor, if everything is made up of opposite charges then the space beween these charges could be considered a dielectric,that is electrostatic thus capacitive in nature on the fundamental level. This would make a potential difference nothing more than additional tension between charges and an electric current tension moving from one dielectric space to the next as applied force in any media often does. If we should consider Dr.Stifflers circuit in this light, as capacitive in nature---capacitors being conservitive in most every sense, then it makes things much easier to understand.

@RStiffler
I was browsing your site---again :), I mean no offence or to imply anything but regarding your CRE circuit, I have read Dr.Rhodes work and if I remember correctly I thought he had mentioned adding a capacitor in the exact fashion you have in your circuit. It makes perfect sense to add a capacitor of course and I enjoyed the explanation you gave for doing such a thing ie.. the bucket brigade. In regards to using an electron twice as you stated, In the case of using a capacitor with the source this may be the case but that is only one half of the equation, when you add an inductance to the circuit utilized in the correct manner another recycling loop is created. The problem I believe was never charging an inductor but utilizing the inductive discharge to its greatest advantage. In any case, keep up the good work---I am still waiting like everyone else I imagine for the grand finale.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 12, 2008, 02:49:35 PM
Hey Fausto, nice work.
I'd say, the EM waves are pushing and pulling the electrons back and forth in the wireless circuit.
Can you make a scopeshot of the wireless circuit? Is the waveshape the same as the primary circuit?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 12, 2008, 03:06:34 PM
Hi Doc,
I purchased one full board via PayPal.
Many thanks for making these available,
so we all could compare results.

Regards, Stefan.
@Stefan

Thank you for the order, spending time on trying to insure we have enough of everything, I did not expect most orders to be for the complete unit as for 100 boards that is 900 LEDs, guess what out of a 1K order you can select and get maybe 600-700 ones you really want to use. So the Hong Kong people are real happy about now.

@All
There will be information with the orders that point to (.pdf) files that explain the boards and how many different ways they can be used. I have received requests that I offer a parts bag that can go with the basic exciter, this way all of the different test can be done as the board is built in stages. It is not a good idea to remove parts from a full board, the foil is real small and through hole plated. Can be done, but not advised. Anyway there will be a lot of information that you will have access to when you get your boards.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 12, 2008, 03:08:04 PM
@All
I do not imagine any of the SEC operation makes much sense to most people because we are always looking for the "current" flow and we equate this with work being done. What we should be looking for is the capacitor, if everything is made up of opposite charges then the space beween these charges could be considered a dielectric,that is electrostatic thus capacitive in nature on the fundamental level. This would make a potential difference nothing more than additional tension between charges and an electric current tension moving from one dielectric space to the next as applied force in any media often does. If we should consider Dr.Stifflers circuit in this light, as capacitive in nature---capacitors being conservitive in most every sense, then it makes things much easier to understand.

@allcanadian and others,
The truth of that, the capacitive nature of SEC, cannot be overstated. I spent the last 6 hours switching back and forth between a fan motor and my modified fan with an alternator on it. I will be working with experimenting / understanding the capacitances in this monster for awhile. I cannot, YET, get the circuit to regularly start the motor / generator through the board C to backplane. Layout, understanding of the capacitances, and etc will come with time and experiment. A fan motor by itself, no problem. Maybe the additional mass added to the motor. Maybe magnets in the SEC? Maybe something else? Don't know yet. Two fingers pinching the motor leads and bang fires up everytime. This critter had impedances changing, I got tagged a couple of times from the alternator leads with the motor running and with it stalled, keep in mind the alternator is not connected to anything at this point, at least not intentionally or visibly. I literally had a little neon almost melt, I should have measured the temp but didn't. I'm telling you it was much hotter than 110F, like burning your hand on the stove hot. The little NE bulbs glow bright orange when excited like this, the big boys glow orange-red-purple. I'm thinking about just mounting all of my breadboards to the same sheet of aluminum and see what that does for me. I was experimenting this morning on the WISH board only but I don't think the capacitance is right, at least not for what I was doing this morning. Just as a "control" or sanity check I fired up the heat circuit first and measured it then went on to experimenting. The heater functioned exactly as before. Trying to run the circuit as posted by Dr. Stiffler with a motor and then three additional plugs with 3 LED's would not work correctly with my alternator. The pictures below show a circuit configuration that did run. Notice the difference in NE intensity with and without a capacitor back to V+. Very interesting and painstaking work. Everybody say thanks for all the hard work DOC! I can't imagine how long he has been at this.  ;D

Much more to follow,

Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 12, 2008, 03:16:35 PM
@All
I do not imagine any of the SEC operation makes much sense to most people because we are always looking for the "current" flow and we equate this with work being done. What we should be looking for is the capacitor, if everything is made up of opposite charges then the space beween these charges could be considered a dielectric,that is electrostatic thus capacitive in nature on the fundamental level. This would make a potential difference nothing more than additional tension between charges and an electric current tension moving from one dielectric space to the next as applied force in any media often does. If we should consider Dr.Stifflers circuit in this light, as capacitive in nature---capacitors being conservitive in most every sense, then it makes things much easier to understand.

@RStiffler
I was browsing your site---again :), I mean no offence or to imply anything but regarding your CRE circuit, I have read Dr.Rhodes work and if I remember correctly I thought he had mentioned adding a capacitor in the exact fashion you have in your circuit. It makes perfect sense to add a capacitor of course and I enjoyed the explanation you gave for doing such a thing ie.. the bucket brigade. In regards to using an electron twice as you stated, In the case of using a capacitor with the source this may be the case but that is only one half of the equation, when you add an inductance to the circuit utilized in the correct manner another recycling loop is created. The problem I believe was never charging an inductor but utilizing the inductive discharge to its greatest advantage. In any case, keep up the good work---I am still waiting like everyone else I imagine for the grand finale.
@allcanadian
No offense taken, but I sure hope that I did not reinvent the wheel here and it is not to close to what you mentioned. I have never seen the work you refer to, can you point me to it??

Anyway you are correct in many ways, yet I found that the CRE does have limitations and it seems that a SEC Exciter is working better than CRE, more will be posted on this.

Capacitor approach, Yes!, correct, I have been saying all along to look at it in the terms of capacity, BUT not capacity back to the source supply thus completing a standard circuit. Rather a capacitive coupling to the Spacial Energy Lattice (nodes). A SEC Exciter excites the lattice into vibration and during this vibration a small window is opened through which energy can be absorbed by the circuit via capacitive coupling. The worst thing to think of here is the term "Displacement Current" there is as you say (No Current). Nothing is being transfered from the Energy Nodes to the circuit, except Potential via capacitive difference. I think this should make sense to you.

When the paper is out the people that want to understand will and the rest will continue their fits of laughter. Anyway, your on the money with what you said and it takes a bit of mind conditioning to view things in a non-current mode.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 12, 2008, 03:45:25 PM
I must confess that I am puzzle with what i found out. Watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxMPPOy35H4) and you will see why.

Dr. Stiffler, can your theory account for that? I bet you can. When are you planning to share with us your theory?

Fausto.
@Fausto

I do not want to get to deep into my paper here (and can not for obvious reason), but I will try to answer some of your question.

Any way if you were set up to do the measurement you would find some interesting things in how the field changes over distance (non-test book). For a specific distance around the circuit (if it were in free space) the field would be constant to a distance away from the center, then it would be a linear decrease from that point. So while in this constant field bubble you can move around the periphery in and out and not detect a decline in coupling.

You should be able to remove some of the LEDs and the neon from your coupling boards and get a better response, the other components are providing additional capacity allowing the potential to dissipate before it can build to where you see the LEDs light. With a reduced external (probe) board you should be able to see the surrounding bubble and maybe the somewhat abrupt point where it changes from constant to linear decline.

The space around the exciter "Charges", I think you have seen this and I remember Loki talking about it. Lets say the Neon is just firing and not to bright, you touch and hold it and it brightens up, then you release it and it dims back down, but if you hold it for say 20-20 seconds it appears to get a bit brighter while holding, then when you release it it stays bright. As long as you do not make major change around the board the neon will stay lit. Turn the circuit of for an instant and you are back to square one. Repeat process and neon stays on bright.

In one of my early videos (I even pointed this out in this thread) when I removed the neon I was using for testing, it stayed lit for some two feet away from the circuit until I placed it on the table and it for an instant stayed lit and then went out. I got so much flack over this as everyone said I was an antenna providing the power (in part I was an antenna) but the spacial field actually moved with me and the neon.

Great video and work.

 ;D If we are not getting rich we are sure entertaining the masses   ;D

 8) Isn't this work grand, a house of mirrors, another door behind each door, never ending
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 12, 2008, 03:54:28 PM
@All
I do not imagine any of the SEC operation makes much sense to most people because we are always looking for the "current" flow and we equate this with work being done. What we should be looking for is the capacitor, if everything is made up of opposite charges then the space beween these charges could be considered a dielectric,that is electrostatic thus capacitive in nature on the fundamental level. This would make a potential difference nothing more than additional tension between charges and an electric current tension moving from one dielectric space to the next as applied force in any media often does. If we should consider Dr.Stifflers circuit in this light, as capacitive in nature---capacitors being conservitive in most every sense, then it makes things much easier to understand.

@allcanadian and others,
The truth of that, the capacitive nature of SEC, cannot be overstated. I spent the last 6 hours switching back and forth between a fan motor and my modified fan with an alternator on it. I will be working with experimenting / understanding the capacitances in this monster for awhile. I cannot, YET, get the circuit to regularly start the motor / generator through the board C to backplane. Layout, understanding of the capacitances, and etc will come with time and experiment. A fan motor by itself, no problem. Maybe the additional mass added to the motor. Maybe magnets in the SEC? Maybe something else? Don't know yet. Two fingers pinching the motor leads and bang fires up everytime. This critter had impedances changing, I got tagged a couple of times from the alternator leads with the motor running and with it stalled, keep in mind the alternator is not connected to anything at this point, at least not intentionally or visibly. I literally had a little neon almost melt, I should have measured the temp but didn't. I'm telling you it was much hotter than 110F, like burning your hand on the stove hot. The little NE bulbs glow bright orange when excited like this, the big boys glow orange-red-purple. I'm thinking about just mounting all of my breadboards to the same sheet of aluminum and see what that does for me. I was experimenting this morning on the WISH board only but I don't think the capacitance is right, at least not for what I was doing this morning. Just as a "control" or sanity check I fired up the heat circuit first and measured it then went on to experimenting. The heater functioned exactly as before. Trying to run the circuit as posted by Dr. Stiffler with a motor and then three additional plugs with 3 LED's would not work correctly with my alternator. The pictures below show a circuit configuration that did run. Notice the difference in NE intensity with and without a capacitor back to V+. Very interesting and painstaking work. Everybody say thanks for all the hard work DOC! I can't imagine how long he has been at this.  ;D

Much more to follow,

Jim 
@Loki
Oh how I wish I could release some of what will be in my paper, because if I could it would save you so much work and you would see at once why you are having trouble here. Think of mass as impedance, what does SEC Exciters like most in impedance, how does that equate to mass? Damn this looks so good, but.... Think of the metal frame around the alternator as a parasitic plate, like the backing plate of a proto-board. The frame is a capacity back to the lattice via the frame itself and the coils. Try a simple test, take a basic exciter, say driving the neon as you have done, tune it up and place a bunch of metal (screw drivers for example) and open coils of wire around the exciter. What happens??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on April 12, 2008, 04:06:25 PM
Hi Loki67671,

the fact alone of building this alternator is really incredible.
 :-*
I would very much like to see it "alternating".

I am not sure: does the rotor consist of 4 small permanent magnets?

....Maybe magnets in the SEC? ...
I guess magnets alone might not be a big problem for the exciter, but I guess that spinning magnets may have a big effect on the circuit.
Thus I think the further away from the exciter you can put the alternator the better.
I guess placement outside of Doc's
.... surrounding bubble ...
would be best.
Yet I remember that wire lengths should be short in SEC circuits.

So would it make sense to try a shielded (coaxial) cable (antenna cable) to feed the alternator (and same type of cable for the return line) in order to maintain an undisturbed signal in the cable and to enable you to place the alternator further away, "outside the bubble"?

edit: I just saw that Doc explained that the problem is in the iron cage of the alternator.
OK, even then max. distance between alternator and exciter might be beneficial.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 12, 2008, 06:27:57 PM
@Dr Stiffler and Everybody,
Let me see if I understood this correctly, cause I'm fairly humbled right now, "just the fact that I have the mass of my alternator coupled inside an SEC exciter zone is working against me? " SHIT!

Let me describe this alternator so you guys aren't guessing at the damned thing! Mass = The ring you see on the bottom is titanium, the motor itself is mostly Thermoplastic PBT of UL94V-0, mounted to the back of the rotor is a nylon spacer hi-temp epoxied, on top of that is a galvanized steel cross holding four very potent neodymium magnets N,S,N,S. The cross serves as the magnetic circuit and it too is hi-temp epoxied in place. The neodymium magnets are holding themselves in place along with clear flowable windshield sealant, the four risers are 4-40 aluminum standoffs, the coils are 100 turns of 30 AWG copper mag wire, 6 coils 3 phases, the stator backing plate is polycarbonate and it is mounted to the standoff with 4-40 stainless steel screws. When I run this guy from a bench power supply in the "normal" operational mode it will make about 20 VAC-pp sinus maximum but wildly non-linear harmonic rich insanity. Yet there is still a repeating and almost identical waveform on all three phases. At low RPMs the wave form is a nice sine wave. Now in an effort to understand why I was having issues getting this to run consistently, I wasn't having any trouble making it run, it would run like like hell, then slow down, no appreciable temperature increases on the motor that I observed, then stop, move a hand to tune and the motor squeals at me then runs then stops with my hand halfway to the tuning rod or power supply pot. I probed with Neon's and made the motor run better or worse or stop it. I ran a 4.7pF capacitor, hooked back to V+ in one test and back to V- in another,  all over the motor alternator assembly in an effort to find stability. It did all kinds of crazy shit, I got RF burned pretty damned good from the generator stator windings with the thing running and also not turning at all. I can make it run by touching the alternator winding tails with my finger or a cap or a neon bulb. I added a little neon bulb between the motor negative lead and V+ and damn near melted the glass. I can't say that much of what this monster was doing this morning is overly familiar to me and I've been working on radio based equipment most of my adult life. I swear I got shocked on the back of my hand "from nowhere".  :o I'll think of more.

Man I want fire it back up right now but the little one won't let me.  ;D Perhaps a little later. I've actually been up since 2:30 running in the wee hours for quiet and concentration plus safety, of those around me!  8) I'm not quitting but I'd sure like to read that paper.  ::) I know! I know! Frustrated excitement is the only way to describe it. DAMN!  ???

Much more to come and I'll get some captures of the three phases. I want to see if there is a difference running from a standard DC supply and a SEC exciter. Really really cool stuff!  8) 8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 12, 2008, 07:27:12 PM
@Loki and All
I was not to clear when I talked about mass and impedance, what I mean is mass as in conductive mass (metals) or conductive fluids or vapor. Conductive mass drops the localized impedance around the circuit (IF) it is not the Al parasitic mass of the back plate for example. Lets say you have a one ton mass of Al with the same WxL and ignore H. You would see no difference in the operation of the Exciter if it sat on this block versus a thin sheet of Al foil the same size. But if you increased the WxL and kept the H the same, you would see a difference, SEC interface would start to decline as the WxL increases on the plate.

This bring to light the first no/no with SEC, I have said that the addition of antenna (physical connection) to the circuit is working against you even though you may see an increase in LED brightness for example. What has happened to show this increase is that you are replacing SEC cohered energy with ionic current. This is not going to work for the direction we are headed.

Now there is a fine line between required mass (hi impedance) and excess mass (low impedance). It took a bit of engineering to get a SEC exciter to work on a mini-PCB. I have always stated that to initially duplicate my work, start with the proto-boards and layout the work in a similar way. This gets you up and running. Wire wrap, free style, punch board or improper PCB's will just cause headache after headache.

So where Loki has the major problem is that the metallic mass around his alternator is sucking up any recovered spacial energy. If it were possible to measure the heat in the metal, you would see an increase, ever so slight and hard to say for sure where it came from, but some would be the spacial energy playing with the metal and causing heating. This in turn divers the energy left to the transistor and should indicate a larger drain from the supply.

Here is another good example, the small HHO electrodes I use with an exciter. If I used two large plated or rods, it would not work, the smaller the wire, the higher the impedance and the better it all works. Hope this helps in some small way. I know these are bits and pieces, but I am trying to answer as the problems arise from working with the circuit, knowledge is power and it really applies here. The more knowledge you gain with a circuit as you work with it the more you will understand and some moment the light will come on and you can say, hey this is really easy :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 12, 2008, 07:37:56 PM
@ALL

It would appeared that everyone is ignoring a very important post (request) I made??????????????

I asked that two meters of the same type be used with one in the +v and one in the -v power lines to a running exciter (with the Al backing plate floating, nothing connected to it).

Take a set of readings (they should be the same) +/- a digit or meter accuracy.

Connect an Earth ground to the Al backing plate, what are the meter readings??????????????

Are they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.

**The power supply must be a battery of 16-20 volts. The Exciter should be running a neon or at least three LEDs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 12, 2008, 09:04:21 PM

Removed, non subject matter.


Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 13, 2008, 12:42:53 AM
Removed non subject matter.
Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 13, 2008, 01:20:47 AM
Removed non subject matter.
Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aluka on April 13, 2008, 01:32:32 AM
@ nickle

Thanks, for the test results you are sure that it is square wave? That is very interesting...maybee combined with a Stiffler type circuitthere could bee more....
but that would bee another tread to open i think.

aluka
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on April 13, 2008, 01:59:27 AM
@ALL

It would appeared that everyone is ignoring a very important post (request) I made??????????????

I asked that two meters of the same type be used with one in the +v and one in the -v power lines to a running exciter (with the Al backing plate floating, nothing connected to it).

Take a set of readings (they should be the same) +/- a digit or meter accuracy.

Connect an Earth ground to the Al backing plate, what are the meter readings??????????????

Are they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.

**The power supply must be a battery of 16-20 volts. The Exciter should be running a neon or at least three LEDs.

Dr Stiffler,
 I built the basic replication today (one neon) using the Jameco list you provided, including the proto-board as suggested. I rewound the tuning coil with #26 copper magnet wire to fill the form. I have a region of somewhat unstable operation when the tuning slug is about 3/4 to the top. I have stable operation area with the slug peaking over the top. This stable operation is about 10ma higher current then the other peak. For the test you requested I used the stable region at higher current.
I connected two meters (a Fluke 75 & a 77). With the proto-board backing plate not grounded to earth I read 37.2 ma on each leg at the same time. When I connect earth ground the current on each leg reads 38.5. Right or wrong, this is what I got.

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Charlie_V on April 13, 2008, 05:33:07 AM
Quote from: RStiffler on April 12, 2008, 05:37:56 PM
Quote
Are they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.

60Hz noise (50Hz if in Europe).  I see increases in AC current all the time when devices are grounded due to wall outlet noise - we are all coursing with 60/50Hz AC electricity, all the time! 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 13, 2008, 08:09:07 AM
Today I tried what you have asked Dr. Stiffler. Two meters on each pole of power. With battery and power source. After many experimentations the results are only more weird.

When no ground connected, both - and + would show the same current usage, in my case about 38ma. Connecting the ground at many different locations including the backing plate, current would differenciate sometimes up to 20ma, so one would show 35ma (lower power consumption) and the other would be 45ma.

Another strange factor is, when playing with more capacitors on the board and differente places to connect the ground, better results can be achieved that being, less current consumption and brighter lights. I also have been playing more with the wireless transmission of power to another board with more AV Plugs and neons and LEDs. On that board also when connecting the ground would drastically improve light brightness without even changing the consumption of power on the SEC board. Very interesting.

MOre videos will come up soon about it.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 13, 2008, 12:54:05 PM
@All
My results from the current experiment:

Circuit description: SEC exciter-  1 AV plug with NE bulb-16.25 VDC input

SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Floating back plate            + leg current=55.6ma   - leg current=55.6ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Hand over ckt                    + leg current=56.42ma  - leg current=55.9ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth  Plate                       + leg current=60.28ma  - leg current=60.1ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth Plate removed           + leg current=55.91ma  - leg current=55.6ma

Not only does it appear to provide a current path but once established a current imbalance also appeared to remain there. I'm seeing what appears to be more current in the positive leg than the negative leg after I read them balanced and then messed with the circuit by attaching earth ground to the plate. Removing the ground did not seem to restore it. Turning off all equipment and restarting did.

Best regards,

Jim

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 13, 2008, 02:41:31 PM
@All
Results from Conductive Mass added to the SEC with no electrical connections, mass just sitting on the breadboard. (Mass added was a 7.5" X 1.5" X 0.25" copper bar, 1 Excelite screwdriver, and the pancake fan / alt combination) The addition of the mass caused the current to increase by about 2ma and then stabilize at the new level. Hand touching the copper bar added another 1.2ma or so. then removing the mass returned the circuit back to the starting current levels approximately 56.1ma. Addition of the fan motor assembly MASS caused the greatest increase and and removal caused the greatest decrease in current, no electrical connections.

Chained LED with alternating connection to Annode and Cathode as suggested also functions.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 13, 2008, 08:15:27 PM
@ALL

It would appeared that everyone is ignoring a very important post (request) I made??????????????

I asked that two meters of the same type be used with one in the +v and one in the -v power lines to a running exciter (with the Al backing plate floating, nothing connected to it).

Take a set of readings (they should be the same) +/- a digit or meter accuracy.

Connect an Earth ground to the Al backing plate, what are the meter readings??????????????

Are they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.

**The power supply must be a battery of 16-20 volts. The Exciter should be running a neon or at least three LEDs.

Dr Stiffler,
 I built the basic replication today (one neon) using the Jameco list you provided, including the proto-board as suggested. I rewound the tuning coil with #26 copper magnet wire to fill the form. I have a region of somewhat unstable operation when the tuning slug is about 3/4 to the top. I have stable operation area with the slug peaking over the top. This stable operation is about 10ma higher current then the other peak. For the test you requested I used the stable region at higher current.
I connected two meters (a Fluke 75 & a 77). With the proto-board backing plate not grounded to earth I read 37.2 ma on each leg at the same time. When I connect earth ground the current on each leg reads 38.5. Right or wrong, this is what I got.

Dave
@retrod
Well not to sure here, first I do not know myself if the two meters you used are equivalent in the impedance they present to the circuit under test. If they are, here is s typical scenario;

With no connection to the backing plate of any kind (ground or otherwise) and the Exciter is tuned (using battery only - no connection anywhere to utility lines or grounds) both meters should read the same.

Don't even bother disconnecting power, just connect the earth ground to the backing plate. You should see up to a 30% increase in one of the power legs, which one depends on the tuning point of the exciter. If you see less then try another tuning spot.

In your example you are seeing less than 5% difference which I would just consider error or unknown conditions. The condition is very obvious and strange in that it is hard to explain the different currents in the battery legs, but it is an indication of what is happening in SEC.

Hope I have help enough so you can try again, thanks for giving it a go.

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 13, 2008, 08:21:27 PM
Quote from: RStiffler on April 12, 2008, 05:37:56 PM
Quote
Are they the same or are they different, if different by how much, how could this be explained.

60Hz noise (50Hz if in Europe).  I see increases in AC current all the time when devices are grounded due to wall outlet noise - we are all coursing with 60/50Hz AC electricity, all the time! 
@Charlie_V
I don't follow? AC current where and how is it being measured? The power rails on the exciter should be filtered well enough that no AC of meaningful level should be seen from supply ground to +v of the supply. No if your wiring standard (I don't know myself) is the same as US and you have a Neutral, Ground and Hot and you are using the Ground as Earth ground it indeed will have AC on it.

Help me out here please and describe you measuring procedure.

Thanks Charlie
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 13, 2008, 08:29:02 PM
@All
Results from Conductive Mass added to the SEC with no electrical connections, mass just sitting on the breadboard. (Mass added was a 7.5" X 1.5" X 0.25" copper bar, 1 Excelite screwdriver, and the pancake fan / alt combination) The addition of the mass caused the current to increase by about 2ma and then stabilize at the new level. Hand touching the copper bar added another 1.2ma or so. then removing the mass returned the circuit back to the starting current levels approximately 56.1ma. Addition of the fan motor assembly MASS caused the greatest increase and and removal caused the greatest decrease in current, no electrical connections.

Chained LED with alternating connection to Annode and Cathode as suggested also functions.

Best regards,

Jim
@Jim

So you did a Mass Mass test ;D

Okay I must have a head cramp here. Your test showed that the alternator did detune a greater amount than all the added mass? I think that is how I read it?

If I read it right, then that sounds correct (or at least what I might expect) as there really is no correct. A good and simple test is the placement of the proto-board in one of those big Al cooking pans.

Anyway great test with the mass mass......
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 13, 2008, 08:32:06 PM
@All
My results from the current experiment:

Circuit description: SEC exciter-  1 AV plug with NE bulb-16.25 VDC input

SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Floating back plate            + leg current=55.6ma   - leg current=55.6ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Hand over ckt                    + leg current=56.42ma  - leg current=55.9ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth  Plate                       + leg current=60.28ma  - leg current=60.1ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth Plate removed           + leg current=55.91ma  - leg current=55.6ma

Not only does it appear to provide a current path but once established a current imbalance also appeared to remain there. I'm seeing what appears to be more current in the positive leg than the negative leg after I read them balanced and then messed with the circuit by attaching earth ground to the plate. Removing the ground did not seem to restore it. Turning off all equipment and restarting did.

Best regards,

Jim

 

@Loki
Fantastic. I will post a couple pictures here shortly on a test I have performed.

Great work and correct observation
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 14, 2008, 12:19:25 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler ... this relates to the "Current SEC Circuit" .. the schematic is a bit different from the parts list ..  the largest difference is C2 and C3 pF / uF ... could you please clarify ... sorry if you already have some where.  Thank you

@Loki .. could you post some detail pics of your circuit ... thanks a bunch.  This putz (that means me) is still trying to get his going.  Probably because I do not have the coil .. and I have been trying to make my own.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on April 14, 2008, 01:29:40 AM
@All
My results from the current experiment:

Circuit description: SEC exciter-  1 AV plug with NE bulb-16.25 VDC input

SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Floating back plate            + leg current=55.6ma   - leg current=55.6ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Hand over ckt                    + leg current=56.42ma  - leg current=55.9ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth  Plate                       + leg current=60.28ma  - leg current=60.1ma
SEC fired and tuned for max (subjective) NE Earth Plate removed           + leg current=55.91ma  - leg current=55.6ma

Not only does it appear to provide a current path but once established a current imbalance also appeared to remain there. I'm seeing what appears to be more current in the positive leg than the negative leg after I read them balanced and then messed with the circuit by attaching earth ground to the plate. Removing the ground did not seem to restore it. Turning off all equipment and restarting did.

Best regards,

Jim

 

@Loki
Fantastic. I will post a couple pictures here shortly on a test I have performed.

Great work and correct observation

I?d suggest to use cooling spray to verify these facts.
A nonlinear circuit might have lots of possible operating points -
by sligthly cooling parts of the circuit which might influence these
operating points (transistor and everything which heats up) - its
possible to "rebias" this circuit or to detect other operating points.
If you change the impedance of such circuit - you have the chance
that it "locks in" some where unusal - as if it locks in if you power
it up normally.

As long as you have an "asymmetric" circuit - (and there is no true
symmetric circuit) - the current in the supply wires will be different.


BTW: This can be very useful to estimate the relative output
power/frequency/bandwith of such circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 15, 2008, 03:31:15 PM
@Plengo
@All

For those with the proto-boards with the Al backing plate and the JameCo 22uH choke with the coil in the base like Plengo, need to do one more easy and fast test. It seem no one yet understands what is going on here and sometimes a picture and a burned finger are worth more than explanations.

So the test is simple, disconnect the 22uH from the exciter collector (on the AV Plug side) and drop the end into a free connection pad. Power the exciter with 20vdc and tune for about 40+ to 50mA. Monitor the tenp of the choke, you do not need a thermometer, use your finger (be careful), don't start it and walk off, you will burn the choke.

Try it and lets all know.......

Here is the circuit.

*Trying again to update this.....

I was told some boards do not work the way I expect, so I wired one up and found a short wire jumper will allow it to work, I have included a picture.

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 15, 2008, 06:29:25 PM
Dr. Stiffler,
I will fire this one up when I get home from work and then post the results.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on April 15, 2008, 07:13:37 PM
I tried as suggested with the choke. My work room is cold, I felt heat in about 10 seconds. I also noted that when my finger was on the choke the circuit current increased from the initial 45ma to 70ma.


Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 15, 2008, 08:53:32 PM
I tried as suggested with the choke. My work room is cold, I felt heat in about 10 seconds. I also noted that when my finger was on the choke the circuit current increased from the initial 45ma to 70ma.


Dave
@retrod
Great. maybe? How hot did it get? How long was the small jumper wire?
If it did not get HOT! be sure it is in a direction away from the power rail lines. In my example if I move the choke to the second connection tier away from the rails it will start smoking within 20 seconds.

Now the big question  :) if the choke and a pad or two consume this much energy how can any be left for all the LEDs one can drive, or LEDs, neon and motor?


This is a result of the 3.75pF global circuit coupling to the Al backing plate
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 16, 2008, 12:59:07 AM
@All,
Todays experiment results:

Circuit is SEC exciter in the currently stated configuration
Power input = 20.12VDC base coil tuned to draw 43ma from supply
22uH choke terminated in an empty connector row 90 degrees directly away from the Osc and power rails, 2+ inches
Within 10 seconds the choke was getting very warm....at between 11 to 13 seconds I opened the positive rail
Not doing so would have caused the inductor to open.
I will have to test this component now to see if its value is still the same, after the heat  ;D

Secondary test test,  ;D same configuration as above, new choke
voltage measurements attempted across choke with fluke 179 DMM
measurements taken +on collector side -on pad termination side
results:

13 VDC Input         current=29ma   current drops to 23ma with meter loading      observed quick positive voltage drop decay to zero 
15 VDC Input         current=32ma   current drops to 26ma with meter loading      .002 VDC drop measured on choke
17 VDC Input         current=36ma   current drops to 34ma with meter loading      -.004 VDC drop measured on choke
20 VDC Input         current=45ma   current drops to 44ma with meter loading      -.011 VDC drop measured on choke

Voltage went negative in relation to initial condition indicating current reversal and flow into choke from the parasitic.

I burned my finger.........again!

Best regards

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 16, 2008, 01:08:02 AM
For those of you who have ordered boards for the first May delivery, WE ARE ON TRACK!

The components arrived today (seen in the following picture). The boards are still 1.5 weeks out should be no problem. The LEDs are on the plane from Hong Kong.

We pulled some sample Neons to test, these are the big 1.9mA units and they work great. You will be happy!!

I did not expect so many orders for the full board, but a second order is coming by air with more chokes. There are a few left if you want them shipped on or before 5/15, after a couple of days we will have to set a new date for the next release as it will require more PCB's (2 week lead time). So if you want one with the first group of people, don't wait to long or you will not get it shipped until the end of May.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 16, 2008, 01:19:23 AM
@All,
Todays experiment results:

Circuit is SEC exciter in the currently stated configuration
Power input = 20.12VDC base coil tuned to draw 43ma from supply
22uH choke terminated in an empty connector row 90 degrees directly away from the Osc and power rails, 2+ inches
Within 10 seconds the choke was getting very warm....at between 11 to 13 seconds I opened the positive rail
Not doing so would have caused the inductor to open.
I will have to test this component now to see if its value is still the same, after the heat  ;D

Secondary test test,  ;D same configuration as above, new choke
voltage measurements attempted across choke with fluke 179 DMM
measurements taken +on collector side -on pad termination side
results:

13 VDC Input         current=29ma   current drops to 23ma with meter loading      observed quick positive voltage drop decay to zero 
15 VDC Input         current=32ma   current drops to 26ma with meter loading      .002 VDC drop measured on choke
17 VDC Input         current=36ma   current drops to 34ma with meter loading      -.004 VDC drop measured on choke
20 VDC Input         current=45ma   current drops to 44ma with meter loading      -.011 VDC drop measured on choke

Voltage went negative in relation to initial condition indicating current reversal and flow into choke from the parasitic.

I burned my finger.........again!

Best regards

Jim
@Loki
Were you  using an RF probe on the meter? The values you show look right but my RF probe across the choke shows 185Vpp.

So you don't think you have a lock on burned fingers I thought I would show you my finger  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 16, 2008, 01:29:58 AM
Hey Doc,

Have you seen this video perhaps? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ThCLkzi0I (from this thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4494.0)

They are using simple tea strainers one inside the other as an electrode(s). Perhaps you could try this with the SEC since I remember you used SS wire for your HHO experiments, and strainers are basically SS mesh...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 16, 2008, 01:51:49 AM
Hey Doc,

Have you seen this video perhaps? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95ThCLkzi0I (from this thread http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4494.0)

They are using simple tea strainers one inside the other as an electrode(s). Perhaps you could try this with the SEC since I remember you used SS wire for your HHO experiments, and strainers are basically SS mesh...

You don't think they may have seen my work in 2005 on electrodes; www.stifflerscientific.com/electrodes.asp where I used an SS strainer as shown in the following picture.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 16, 2008, 01:52:20 AM
@All,
Todays experiment results:

Circuit is SEC exciter in the currently stated configuration
Power input = 20.12VDC base coil tuned to draw 43ma from supply
22uH choke terminated in an empty connector row 90 degrees directly away from the Osc and power rails, 2+ inches
Within 10 seconds the choke was getting very warm....at between 11 to 13 seconds I opened the positive rail
Not doing so would have caused the inductor to open.
I will have to test this component now to see if its value is still the same, after the heat  ;D

Secondary test test,  ;D same configuration as above, new choke
voltage measurements attempted across choke with fluke 179 DMM
measurements taken +on collector side -on pad termination side
results:

13 VDC Input         current=29ma   current drops to 23ma with meter loading      observed quick positive voltage drop decay to zero 
15 VDC Input         current=32ma   current drops to 26ma with meter loading      .002 VDC drop measured on choke
17 VDC Input         current=36ma   current drops to 34ma with meter loading      -.004 VDC drop measured on choke
20 VDC Input         current=45ma   current drops to 44ma with meter loading      -.011 VDC drop measured on choke

Voltage went negative in relation to initial condition indicating current reversal and flow into choke from the parasitic.

I burned my finger.........again!

Best regards

Jim
@Loki
Were you  using an RF probe on the meter? The values you show look right but my RF probe across the choke shows 185Vpp.

So you don't think you have a lock on burned fingers I thought I would show you my finger  ;D


@Dr. Stiffler
No...I can't find it I'm ashamed to say :-[ So I knew my readings could be off, ahem, would be off. I was most interested in the polarity and the trending of the circuit's reaction to the meter insertion at specific supply voltages. The power was removed between every measurement and this sequence was repeated three times. The results are repeatable but that could mean I screwed it up the same every time, no? I must admit that you are the man for the burns, I'm not worthy.  :P I'm going try and borrow one from one of the RF guru's tomorrow. I tried to post my backing plate work this morning but the blasted forum went south on me twice and I had to leave. I have to work on the photo sizes too.  :D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 16, 2008, 01:58:29 AM
@All,
Todays experiment results:

Circuit is SEC exciter in the currently stated configuration
Power input = 20.12VDC base coil tuned to draw 43ma from supply
22uH choke terminated in an empty connector row 90 degrees directly away from the Osc and power rails, 2+ inches
Within 10 seconds the choke was getting very warm....at between 11 to 13 seconds I opened the positive rail
Not doing so would have caused the inductor to open.
I will have to test this component now to see if its value is still the same, after the heat  ;D

Secondary test test,  ;D same configuration as above, new choke
voltage measurements attempted across choke with fluke 179 DMM
measurements taken +on collector side -on pad termination side
results:

13 VDC Input         current=29ma   current drops to 23ma with meter loading      observed quick positive voltage drop decay to zero 
15 VDC Input         current=32ma   current drops to 26ma with meter loading      .002 VDC drop measured on choke
17 VDC Input         current=36ma   current drops to 34ma with meter loading      -.004 VDC drop measured on choke
20 VDC Input         current=45ma   current drops to 44ma with meter loading      -.011 VDC drop measured on choke

Voltage went negative in relation to initial condition indicating current reversal and flow into choke from the parasitic.

I burned my finger.........again!

Best regards

Jim
@Loki
Were you  using an RF probe on the meter? The values you show look right but my RF probe across the choke shows 185Vpp.

So you don't think you have a lock on burned fingers I thought I would show you my finger  ;D


@Dr. Stiffler
No...I can't find it I'm ashamed to say :-[ So I knew my readings could be off, ahem, would be off. I was most interested in the polarity and the trending of the circuit's reaction to the meter insertion at specific supply voltages. The power was removed between every measurement and this sequence was repeated three times. The results are repeatable but that could mean I screwed it up the same every time, no? I must admit that you are the man for the burns, I'm not worthy.  :P I'm going try and borrow one from one of the RF guru's tomorrow. I tried to post my backing plate work this morning but the blasted forum went south on me twice and I had to leave. I have to work on the photo sizes too.  :D

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki
Yeah the forum seems to get pretty sick every now and then. I had similar trouble.

Hey, 0.01uF and a diode works fine in a pinch, the diode goes across the pos lead to the gnd and probe with the cap. Don't even have to enclose it, wrap it around the meter tip.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 16, 2008, 02:31:59 AM
@Dr. Stiffler,
I forgot all about that. Thanks. 0.01uF and a switcher like were using or an RF pin diode? Very cool. Excellent tip!

Best regards,

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 16, 2008, 03:27:31 AM
You don't think they may have seen my work in 2005 on electrodes; www.stifflerscientific.com/electrodes.asp where I used an SS strainer as shown in the following picture.

Haha, brilliant. I guess I did not look at that page on your website, else I would've known... :)

So is there merit in using the SS strainers in your or their configuration?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 16, 2008, 03:48:33 AM
Doctor,

I repeated the fast experiment and my finger is burned. Even without the short wire it gets very hot and very fast. About 20v and oscilates between 28ma and 42ma as I touch the choke with my hand. I can not leave it unatended otherwise it will definetly burn up.

Connecting to an AV Plug with LEDS will cool it off somehow.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lakes on April 16, 2008, 08:25:42 AM
Just an onlooker here, but still very interesting!

Has anyone measured the level of RF given off by this circuit?

Does it interfere with any radio equipment I wonder?
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 16, 2008, 11:11:26 AM
Just an onlooker here, but still very interesting!

Has anyone measured the level of RF given off by this circuit?

Does it interfere with any radio equipment I wonder?
 

@Lakes
Page 35 of this thread will give you an idea, especially read the post by Dr. Stiffler and the disappearing EM Energy. Great stuff!

Best regards.

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 16, 2008, 11:41:33 AM
@All,
For those building and testing this monster have a look at the pictures. The first picture is my WISH breadboard and an LCR measuring capacitance from the connectors to the backing plate. See the problem? Parasitic capacitance is 2.1pF and Dr. Stiffler has told us over and over 7.5pF! Now look at the second and third photos. The second photo shows the breadboards just sitting on the Al backplate. The third shows the boards mounted to the Al plate and the extensive measurements I took after the fact. I'm trying to "see" this or maintain a view of the capacitance. This change made a great improvement in my circuit's operation. Now to figure out adding this characteristic to my VLT's on the pad-boards. I can't wait to see what that does to their performance!  ;D

Best regards and burned fingers to many,  ;)

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 16, 2008, 01:04:12 PM
@ Dr. Stiffler ... this relates to the "Current SEC Circuit" .. the schematic is a bit different from the parts list ..  the largest difference is C2 and C3 pF / uF ... could you please clarify ... sorry if you already have some where.  Thank you

@Loki .. could you post some detail pics of your circuit ... thanks a bunch.  This putz (that means me) is still trying to get his going.  Probably because I do not have the coil .. and I have been trying to make my own.



@nickle989,
Page 41 of this thread, half way down or so, has some very detailed photos of the SEC being tested for heat on breadboard and I just posted the changes I made to my build and testing platform. Please try to learn from the mistakes we are making and you will get this running. If you are not comfortable or experienced with circuit design I definitely suggest one of Dr. Stiffler's SEC's on the PCB. It will probably save you much grief. I'm stubborn and will beat at it until I understand. If you insist on building your own then coil forms from surplus equipment, older tube TV's, Organs, mobile radio gear, and etc are your friend!  ;D You will find much joy in the Motorola commercial units!  ;D You can also order some from the surplus folks that Dr. Stiffler posted. I have done both and then some.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 17, 2008, 12:52:53 AM
@Loki ... thanks for the info ... okay at circuits etc .... i do like the visuals to see if I am doing something wrong .... and I am with you beating something into submission until I understand it ... I have know doubt that the Dr's boards will be easier ... but I would rather learn by doing .. it provides me greater retention and the ability to experiment.  I can see some of my problems already ... with you last info ... 2.1 vs. 7.5 pf.  Once I get mine going properly .. I will be able to test a few thoughts that I have going on ... of which I will post ... even if they don't work, so as to avoid replecation.

One thing missing in my set of tools was an inductance meter ... which is now on its way.

Thank you for the insight.

@the Dr. I do like the bits instead of the silver platter ... it does make the brain work better for the long run.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 17, 2008, 01:00:45 AM
You don't think they may have seen my work in 2005 on electrodes; www.stifflerscientific.com/electrodes.asp where I used an SS strainer as shown in the following picture.

Haha, brilliant. I guess I did not look at that page on your website, else I would've known... :)

So is there merit in using the SS strainers in your or their configuration?
@amigo
Well it has fair surface area but if you push it hard the gas (larger bubbles) can collect on the inner wire grid and this will imped that close proximal area from easy production. Although it was never posted on my site I did the SS Nut Cup trial, in short there are far better electrode designs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 17, 2008, 01:05:05 AM
@Loki ... thanks for the info ... okay at circuits etc .... i do like the visuals to see if I am doing something wrong .... and I am with you beating something into submission until I understand it ... I have know doubt that the Dr's boards will be easier ... but I would rather learn by doing .. it provides me greater retention and the ability to experiment.  I can see some of my problems already ... with you last info ... 2.1 vs. 7.5 pf.  Once I get mine going properly .. I will be able to test a few thoughts that I have going on ... of which I will post ... even if they don't work, so as to avoid replecation.

One thing missing in my set of tools was an inductance meter ... which is now on its way.

Thank you for the insight.

@the Dr. I do like the bits instead of the silver platter ... it does make the brain work better for the long run.
@nickle989
The silver platter has been around for some time now but for some reason no one wants to take it out of the box. I do not understand as I have not tried to be cryptic. I have been told that every driver does not need to know how to build a car to use it, this is correct, but this is not a car.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 17, 2008, 01:49:41 AM
@Loki ... thanks for the info ... okay at circuits etc .... i do like the visuals to see if I am doing something wrong .... and I am with you beating something into submission until I understand it ... I have know doubt that the Dr's boards will be easier ... but I would rather learn by doing .. it provides me greater retention and the ability to experiment.  I can see some of my problems already ... with you last info ... 2.1 vs. 7.5 pf.  Once I get mine going properly .. I will be able to test a few thoughts that I have going on ... of which I will post ... even if they don't work, so as to avoid replecation.

One thing missing in my set of tools was an inductance meter ... which is now on its way.

Thank you for the insight.

@the Dr. I do like the bits instead of the silver platter ... it does make the brain work better for the long run.
@nickle989
The silver platter has been around for some time now but for some reason no one wants to take it out of the box. I do not understand as I have not tried to be cryptic. I have been told that every driver does not need to know how to build a car to use it, this is correct, but this is not a car.

@All
The silver platter seems to work quite well indeed. I am learning by the day.  8) 8) 8)

Best regards

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 17, 2008, 02:25:33 AM
@Dr. ... no you have not been cryptic at all .... it is more on my part not being able to retain the info .. and I am certain that if a question was asked you would answer as you have done so many times.  I started back at the beginning of the thread a yesterday to make sure that I have not missed anything else.

For what it is worth ... and not to change the thread ... I reproduced an hydrogen booster/welder from a very well known individual in the area and came up with less then satisfying results.  When people would ask him hard questions ... well lets just say it was not great answers. 

Here at least we see that results can be duplicated and proven.  Which is far more encouraging.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 19, 2008, 02:56:01 AM
@All
The first board was assembled and tested, surprise! it worked the first time power was supplied.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 19, 2008, 03:11:24 AM
That looks great!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 19, 2008, 03:18:00 AM
@All,
SEC exciter last configuration for heat
        Neon temp       =122F
        22uH temp       =91F
        transistor temp =87F
        10uH temp       =86F

Ambient temperature =80F
Input Voltage            =18.1VDC
Input Current            =63ma
Input power              =1.14w

I'm going to test the relative heat distribution and output temperatures of these 4 components running on the new back plane through the DC voltage range that the Ne bulb fires, starting at 6.25 VDC, and then try to "tune" the parasitic C of the mounted breadboards by adjusting mounting screw tensions and possibly shims. The idea is get as close to 7.5pF parasitic as closely and evenly distributed across the nodes as possible and then remeasure heat through the input voltage range again. Always tuning for maximum subjective Ne illumination. Circuit stability is also greatly improved. More to follow and more heat to find. Now to look for the SWEETEST of spots. We'll see. Neon's are really cool in the dark  ;D Unless you touch them. Anybody else making heat?

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 19, 2008, 03:19:39 AM
@Dr. Stiffler

Woops! Spoke too soon! Knew it would be great and make heat!  ;D

Nice work

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 19, 2008, 03:38:51 AM
@All
After soldering this many SEC Exciter Boards, somebody should know how to solder  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on April 19, 2008, 02:13:34 PM
@All
After soldering this many SEC Exciter Boards, somebody should know how to solder  ;D


 @Dr. Stiffler,

   Do you have any plans to manufacture these boards in Europe?

   We have facilies to manufacure and send through EU. Please let me know if you are interested in low cost manufacturing base in EU region.

      Best Regards,
      Nuri Temurlenk
      MSc EEE. Automation Engineer

      Mobile    : +90 533 501 7166 (GMT +2)
      Fax        : +90 262 349 6454
      Web       : <http://www.erelgroup.com.tr/> www.erelgroup.com.tr
      Adress   :  Yeni Golcuk Yolu No 64 VezirCiftligi Mevkii
                       Kullar 41607 Izmit KOCAELI TURKEY
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 19, 2008, 03:12:14 PM
@All
This morning heat tuning exploration:

     Input voltage=19.55 VDC
     Input current=66ma
     Ambient temperature=70F
     Neon Temperature=128F
     22uH Choke Temperature=92F
     Transistor Temperature=80F
     10uH Choke Temperature=80F

Just pure exploration,

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 19, 2008, 03:24:24 PM
@Plengo

GREAT VIDEO AGAIN!

Let me try to clear up my understanding of what you are doing?

You are powering the Exciter charging the battery from another Exciter? or are you opening the window with one Exciter and then having the charging Exciter pull the additional energy from the opened window?

It looks to me like you have a very large field in the area, have you tried taking your free floating board of LED's across the room and connecting the input to the service ground. If indeed you have opened this much area they should light from the ground connection only????

Good luck on the big battery.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 19, 2008, 03:29:03 PM
@All
After soldering this many SEC Exciter Boards, somebody should know how to solder  ;D


 @Dr. Stiffler,

   Do you have any plans to manufacture these boards in Europe?

   We have facilies to manufacure and send through EU. Please let me know if you are interested in low cost manufacturing base in EU region.

      Best Regards,
      Nuri Temurlenk
      MSc EEE. Automation Engineer

      Mobile    : +90 533 501 7166 (GMT +2)
      Fax        : +90 262 349 6454
      Web       : <http://www.erelgroup.com.tr/> www.erelgroup.com.tr
      Adress   :  Yeni Golcuk Yolu No 64 VezirCiftligi Mevkii
                       Kullar 41607 Izmit KOCAELI TURKEY
@samedsoft
This is not a business for me, I am only trying to get as many people on the same page as possible, YET there is a circuit in the works that may indeed be commercial and I could have interest.

We can communicate off line on this possibility, although I have obtained all of my board from as West Coast US Company that does excellent work for 1/2 of the rest of the companies in the US, these are quality boards indeed.

We will be in touch.

Thank You for the info.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 19, 2008, 04:36:25 PM
@Plengo

GREAT VIDEO AGAIN!

Let me try to clear up my understanding of what you are doing?

You are powering the Exciter charging the battery from another Exciter? or are you opening the window with one Exciter and then having the charging Exciter pull the additional energy from the opened window?

It looks to me like you have a very large field in the area, have you tried taking your free floating board of LED's across the room and connecting the input to the service ground. If indeed you have opened this much area they should light from the ground connection only????

Good luck on the big battery.....

@Plengo,
Nice work! I haven't headed off that direction yet. I'm sticking to maximum heat from SEC for now. There are so many directions we can explore. I'm testing my exciters and working with them on a daily basis. It still is never a dull moment! Good job, and thanks for clear videos.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 19, 2008, 05:01:19 PM
@All
This morning heat tuning exploration:

     Input voltage=19.55 VDC
     Input current=66ma
     Ambient temperature=70F
     Neon Temperature=128F
     22uH Choke Temperature=92F
     Transistor Temperature=80F
     10uH Choke Temperature=80F

Just pure exploration,

Best regards,

Jim

@All,
Now looking at the above numbers I see that my transistor and 10uH choke are about 10F above ambient. So I've apparently crossed the line a little. So what I'll do in my next round of testing will be drop back the supply voltage a bit at a time and retune for maximum heat out from the Neon and choke until the transistor is just at ambient or hopefully below. SO, I'm above ambient by about 10F or approximately 6C.
Keep in mind I'm measuring temperature with an IR gun so all of these values are subjective measurements. Touching it, the Neon, with your finger is intimately subjective and very convincing.  ;D
The SEC is configured for heat generation per Dr. Stifflers instructions, SEC driving 1 AV with a big Neon bulb. I also moved my circuit's negative rail from the breadboard negative rail, that measured 30pF to back plate, to one that I configured on the breadboard's connection points. My oscillator is now confined to one corner of the breadboard and the 22uH, AV, and Neon extend away from it and the power rail. So the work continues.  8) 8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 19, 2008, 05:34:24 PM
@All
This morning heat tuning exploration:

     Input voltage=19.55 VDC
     Input current=66ma
     Ambient temperature=70F
     Neon Temperature=128F
     22uH Choke Temperature=92F
     Transistor Temperature=80F
     10uH Choke Temperature=80F

Just pure exploration,

Best regards,

Jim
Hey Jim,
maybe you should also measure the temperature of the components under known circumstances first, so you know some of the characteristics such as how
much electric power is dissipated to heat.
Just a thought, but maybe not very clear explained.  8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 19, 2008, 06:28:29 PM
@All
We have now fully tested the SEC15-3 and the SEC15-20 (see below) so production is starting very early and so will be the shipping. This 20 board outperforms my wildest hope.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 19, 2008, 07:40:31 PM
A few more notes from the bench:

Same SEC exciter as last post with 1 change, added .01uF ceramic decoupling at the base coil ground to Vcc. Subjective numbers from IR gun measurements.

This afternoon heat tuning exploration:

     Input voltage=19.67 VDC
     Input current=66ma
     Ambient temperature=70F
     Neon Temperature=136F
     22uH Choke Temperature=94F
     Transistor Temperature=86F
     10uH Choke Temperature=82F

I'm not sure what my circuits would do confined in the calorimeter chamber tuned like this but I have some idea's.  ;D
Make water hot......perhaps.

@Dr. Stiffler,
Looking good!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 19, 2008, 07:46:35 PM
Quote
...
You are powering the Exciter charging the battery from another Exciter? or are you opening the window with one Exciter and then having the charging Exciter pull the additional energy from the opened window?

It looks to me like you have a very large field in the area, have you tried taking your free floating board of LED's across the room and connecting the input to the service ground. If indeed you have opened this much area they should light from the ground connection only?

Thanks Dr. Stiffler. I am just playing with ideas. I am using 2 SECs one feeds the second and the second feeds the battery. I started as you did, charging a capacitor then I notice I could send the signal directly to the battery. What is amazing to me is the amount of "radiant energy" (I dont have better word to describe this energy) that is everywhere in the proximity of any SEC "receiver", thats to say the AV plug board, not the transmiter.

And you are right, I can light the separate AV/LED board just using the ground anywhere around 3 to 4 feet distance from the SECs. Somehow it is possible to make the radiant area bigger using my 250ft Lamp wire as seen on the video.

The battery IS charging slowly but it is. It started at 12.35v and now after a good 10hours it is around 12.44v. Usually it takes me about 13 to 14 hours to charge this 100Ah battery using my SSG after using about 100watts of power. My goal is to see the ratio of IN/OUT to charge the same battery to the same voltage as my SSG.

I will keep you guys posted of the results if it is appropriate for this thread.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on April 19, 2008, 08:33:05 PM
@plengo

  I would like to thank you for your great efforts.

  Do you have a chance to replace lead acid battery to a Ultracap? I guess will yield better charging performance. And this research will open door towards REHV (Radiant Energy Hybrid Vehicles).

  I would like to present some links from my ultracap files,

http://www.maxwell.com/ultracapacitors/index.asp
http://www.solarvan.co.uk/15v56fsupercap.pdf
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/ultracapacitors.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C1gVplcw-M
http://www.ultracapacitors.org/
http://www.altairnano.com/tech.html
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Batteries
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:EEStor
http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/ultracapacitor/charging/
http://www.mpoweruk.com/history.htm#beta
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sudQhWMnrW0
http://ecl.web.psi.ch/Publications/cap_pub/AABC_2002.pdf

  Unfortunately I do not have any information where you can buy these in EU... Maybe Maxwell Germany may be right adress..

  Best Regards,
  Nuri Temurlenk
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 19, 2008, 09:07:02 PM
I agree, using caps makes it easier to determine stored energy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 19, 2008, 10:38:42 PM
@All
This morning heat tuning exploration:

     Input voltage=19.55 VDC
     Input current=66ma
     Ambient temperature=70F
     Neon Temperature=128F
     22uH Choke Temperature=92F
     Transistor Temperature=80F
     10uH Choke Temperature=80F

Just pure exploration,

Best regards,

Jim
Hey Jim,
maybe you should also measure the temperature of the components under known circumstances first, so you know some of the characteristics such as how
much electric power is dissipated to heat.
Just a thought, but maybe not very clear explained.  8)

@Alan,
Yes I do plan on it, its part of the problems wth part time research, it's not very fast. But I'm cooking neons better and better without increasing input power too awful much so. Progress even if slow.  ;D My work right now is trying to understand the the parasitic C's and the role it plays, characteristics, and etc. All in good time for me I suppose.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 20, 2008, 09:31:31 PM
@All,
Picture laminated blue foam insulation with wiring sticking out of it and this inside it. Spool center will be lined with aluminum flashing. Insulation foam will fill the void between the inner radius and outer radius. 7 inches of insulation at approximately R6/inch. That should do it. The shots of heat are for drama.  :-* The point now becomes transfer this performance to a PCB that fits in the big old glass thermos bottle..Edit, Actually under it in the aluminum lined chamber....Jim..... ;D ;D ;D What can I say.....I'm a technical packrat.

More to follow,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 20, 2008, 09:34:11 PM
Oh,
The transistor....... ;D ;D Ambient temperature is 74F
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 20, 2008, 09:50:43 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
Then I'm gonna compare it to the Stiffler PCB devices. If I can get my hands on one.  ;D ;D The VLT's are going in here too. ;D 2nd batch Doc, 2nd batch,  ;) I'm slow but doing it anyway. See if my results match up with those of the rest! Unless you haven't sold out of the first run. Drop me a note if that's the case but no hurry for me.  :D :D
I'm getting better by the session, trim a little here, measure a little there, tweak adjust and measure as much as possible.
I'm going to get it right on the boards too and then heat some water, just like I said.  ;D ;D ;D

Comments, concerns, and criticisms welcome.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 20, 2008, 11:28:35 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
Then I'm gonna compare it to the Stiffler PCB devices. If I can get my hands on one.  ;D ;D The VLT's are going in here too. ;D 2nd batch Doc, 2nd batch,  ;) I'm slow but doing it anyway. See if my results match up with those of the rest! Unless you haven't sold out of the first run. Drop me a note if that's the case but no hurry for me.  :D :D
I'm getting better by the session, trim a little here, measure a little there, tweak adjust and measure as much as possible.
I'm going to get it right on the boards too and then heat some water, just like I said.  ;D ;D ;D

Comments, concerns, and criticisms welcome.

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki67671
This has got to be a calibration nightmare  >:(  An exciter running <2W most likely would not heat much other than the mass around it. Do you feel the glass is thermally more conductive than metal?

Wow! might want to rethink this a bit more, it you have a build in loss of 90% of what you produce your margin of error at 10%, don't think you will obtain readings that could correlate to anything outside of the error margin. If it would work you are looking add many, many hours per run to obtain some kind of an answer.

In my state if you had that big glass retort and did not have a lab license they would put you on the chain gang.
@
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 21, 2008, 01:04:23 AM
@Dr. Stiffler,
That I did not know , the glass vs metals so I was researching it, I appreciate the tips. But I have other metal containers in mind also. I picked the glassware up at a yard sale with flowers in them. 1000ml graduated cylinder too! $2.00 Perhaps some type of copper or brass tank? Pot? I'm open to suggestions.  ;D Seated down in the tube? I was just going for it and judging by what I'm feeling just sitting here with it tuned. There is some definite warmth radiating away from the SEC. I figured that confined it would get pretty hot. I suppose I should look up the materials with the best thermal transfer properties, perhaps copper would be best? Or a completely different direction then? So you are concerned with too much mass sucking away the heat? Is it way overkill on the insulation?  ;D My thinking was thermal isolation. But if there is too much mass to heat in the calorimeter body then you say there isn't enough left for accurate sensing? If I'm understanding correctly. Makes sense! Hmmmmm? I will have to think a bit more.  ;)

Thanks Doc,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 21, 2008, 02:17:24 PM
@Loki
To get you started.

Specific Heat Capacity of Copper and some good basic info
http://www.chm.davidson.edu/ChemistryApplets/Calorimetry/SpecificHeatCapacityOfCopper.html

http://www.chem.latech.edu/~deddy/chem104/L5Calorie.htm

then there are many goo links that cover it all, but this is a good example
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 21, 2008, 03:55:07 PM
DR STIFFLER  since we will all need to be on the same page with calibrating and testing our Calorimetry   is there a way to do this  without breaking the bank?       Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 21, 2008, 05:18:55 PM
DR STIFFLER  since we will all need to be on the same page with calibrating and testing our Calorimetry   is there a way to do this  without breaking the bank?       Chet
@ramset
Hummm... Isn't 'Breaking the bank relative and subjective?? :)

The unit itself can be built for under $20 if you have a Dollar store near you. The electronics, that is something different. If you want automation and want to graph results like every minute, etc., you will need about $200 worth of gear and a laptop or desktop to use as the computer.

Now there is no reason why you can not do it the old school lab way and use some glass thermometers and a pad and pencil, then type the data into a spreadsheet. You will still need the basic unit and some glass thermometers that maybe are $7 each (2).

The Styrofoam from a cheap picnic cooler or some shipping foam will work fine for insulation. Buying this stuff is not cheap I admit so if you have a few things around the house, great.

Unless you are a good tech, the active temp units can be a pain, they need to be RF shielded and the field around the exciter gets into almost everything so it can get real frustrating fast. Dollar for dollar and result for result, the cheap method would work well for a beginner and your results should be well above the error range.

I wish someone that does this kind of work would step forward and help with a design. Any takers???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 21, 2008, 05:25:40 PM
@ALL
Some boards were shipped today and if yours was shipped and you are in the US you should receive an email with the tracking number, out side the US, you will still receive an email.

They are going out, but good old USPS can't seem to supply Priority boxes anymore, PO is out of them and we have them orders from the USPS but, no have yet. Good old gov helping out where they can :-\


Oh! Yes if you have not paid yet, they will not be shipped and there is only a few left, not sure yet if there will be any more.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 21, 2008, 06:36:35 PM
@Loki
To get you started.

Specific Heat Capacity of Copper and some good basic info
http://www.chm.davidson.edu/ChemistryApplets/Calorimetry/SpecificHeatCapacityOfCopper.html

http://www.chem.latech.edu/~deddy/chem104/L5Calorie.htm

then there are many goo links that cover it all, but this is a good example

@Dr. Stiffler,
Thanks Doc, I'm working on it.

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 22, 2008, 02:06:07 AM
@All,
I don't build these for a living but give me about a week with subject.  ;D

@Dr. Stiffler,
Do you think this is a likely candidate? Or perhaps just the old 3.00 white foam coolers from the 5 and dime?
Thanks for the links, I'll be busy for a little while. The copper vessel, any ideas? Something common, can large dia.
copper pipe be used successfully? What are we talking 500ml of water? All suggestions on RF shielding for sensors
welcome.  ;D Very good project for the lab.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 22, 2008, 04:56:36 AM
@the Dr. or if somone remembers ... which page had the test points on the circuit showing.

@the Dr. if I don't have a 400pf cap in place but a 390pf could this cause the SEC to fail ?

I am not using the coil cores to make the coil but I have found a similar core to wind on and have the one coil ranging from 2.3uH to 9.8uH and the other one ranging from 7.3uH to 23uH for tuning. For power I am using a 18volt battery from a cordless drill. On a large breadboard with an alluminium backing plate.

Power at the collector is 19.33 volts at the emittor is 11.46 volts just before the 390pf cap. 

I know I am missing something just not sure on what it is.

Thanks for the help if you can.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 22, 2008, 12:03:27 PM
@the Dr. or if somone remembers ... which page had the test points on the circuit showing.

@the Dr. if I don't have a 400pf cap in place but a 390pf could this cause the SEC to fail ?

I am not using the coil cores to make the coil but I have found a similar core to wind on and have the one coil ranging from 2.3uH to 9.8uH and the other one ranging from 7.3uH to 23uH for tuning. For power I am using a 18volt battery from a cordless drill. On a large breadboard with an alluminium backing plate.

Power at the collector is 19.33 volts at the emittor is 11.46 volts just before the 390pf cap. 

I know I am missing something just not sure on what it is.

Thanks for the help if you can.

@Nickle989
Lets work on getting the circuit running first. It's not a good idea to attempt any direct measurements on the transistor at all unless you have some relatively high end, I believe Dr. Stiffler states 100:1 scope probes, gear. Don't do it. Better to keep the meter back at the supply input to the circuit two of them actually. Build the decoupling board and use it also, two or three for that matter. Oscillators hate having test gear hung on them. Use 1 meter for input current measurement and the other for input voltage measurement.

 Please tell me you have typo above. There is no capacitor in the EMITTER leg of this circuit. There is a series tank circuit in the BASE ( 1 lead of the 400pF capacitor connected to the base, the other lead connects to the variable coil you wound, and the other lead of the coil to ground ) . Then of course the 1meg resistor from BASE to COLLECTOR. The transistor, (this transistor) pinout will be, flat side facing towards you and leads down starting at the left, Emitter, Base, Collector. EBC is one of the very common lead configurations used on transistors. The EMITTER ties directly to circuit ground. Break out the schematic or better yet print it out and identify all of the components leads on the paper. Draw a picture of the components if you have to and run through the connections (without power) until you are sure of the build, matches Dr Stiffler's schematic exactly, then breadboard it. I happen to know for a fact that this device runs on a 390pF capacitor, what I don't know is if it operates in conventional mode or in SEC. A good 390pF should work but Dr. Stiffler has stated 400pF for a reason I think.

Nickle, please order a board from Dr. Stiffler, like I did, so you can have a running example on your bench. From there you can breadboard all day long, and possibly smoke some components, I have and I'll bet Dr. Stiffler has too  ;D , but still have your baseline starting point or reference running. For such a simple looking circuit there is really a lot going on and you have to wire it exactly as in the diagram. No meters on the transistor or it may not run at all and even if it does it will change operation when the meter leads are taken away.  ;D

Good job on those coils. You now have plenty of tuning range once the wiring is correct. Don't worry about test points yet. They will hurt you more than help at this point. TRUST me on this one. Make the 1/4 inch copper tube heat sinks for your transistor(s), sounds like your going to need them.  ;) I mean no offence to you or anyone else here, but how much building experience do you have? It will give me an idea of how to try and help you.  ;D That is if you don't mind me asking. Slow but steady forward! Order parts!


Best regards,

Jim

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 22, 2008, 02:31:28 PM
@Loki ... Thanks for the help .. looked at the circuit this morning ... MAN do I feel like an idiot ... had the cap in the wrong place changed it and it fired up ... I really have no idea what the hell I was thinking about ... really.  I have been taking apart and into electronic since for about 20 plus years now .. no offense taken .. and have built and designed a number of circuits (of course all the thinking was inside the box) ... you know when you are looking for something so hard you miss it because it is right infront of you ...

Thank you for the help.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 22, 2008, 09:02:24 PM
@All
Well we worked around the clock and all but (3) people have been notified that their SEC Boards are on the way. If you watch this forum and have not received an email that your board was shipped, then you are one of the three. It seems that plane from Hong Kong with our 3k LEDs hasn't landed yet, so the boards are done sans the LEDs. So Canada and Spain if you did not get a mail, it will be soon.

To make up for the delay even thought I was not going to ship until 5/15/08, I will try to get them to you faster.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 22, 2008, 09:19:12 PM
@the Dr. or if somone remembers ... which page had the test points on the circuit showing.

@the Dr. if I don't have a 400pf cap in place but a 390pf could this cause the SEC to fail ?

I am not using the coil cores to make the coil but I have found a similar core to wind on and have the one coil ranging from 2.3uH to 9.8uH and the other one ranging from 7.3uH to 23uH for tuning. For power I am using a 18volt battery from a cordless drill. On a large breadboard with an alluminium backing plate.

Power at the collector is 19.33 volts at the emittor is 11.46 volts just before the 390pf cap. 

I know I am missing something just not sure on what it is.

Thanks for the help if you can.
@nickle989
Well I want to impart a bit of my knowledge on you that may or may not be accepted by the current EE's. It has now been over 19 years since my last lecture to budding EE's at a university so I have no idea what is currently being taught, yet here goes.

We all know that a resonant circuit has Xc, Xl, R and Z. Now if you say a particular circuit resonants is G, what is the problem if I use a big L and a small C, it comes out to the same fr.

That is not the case. Even in common communications environment. Circuits that have the same fr but are built from different L & C are not the same. Why? Because in SEC for example the ratio of Xc and Xl is crucial to the operation.

Your question of can I use 390pF or 470pF or whatever and offset it with L, NO!

I do indeed use different values of the base capacity, but I never drop below 400pF, why? that will be answered later. But you can go to 470pF if you reduce the base Xl, and I do not mean by moving the slug outside of the coil to reduce L. I mean a minimum of #26 wire on a form as I have specified.

Should you think I am nuts here, good luck as it just will not work otherwise.

So you have an Exciter working? What one into a neon or are you running a chain?

So what are you going to do with it, are you going to build a calorimeter?

Keep up the good work.....

@Loki
Thanks for the help on this. It seems that is what is needed is input from those that have already felt the pain.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 23, 2008, 03:58:20 AM
@the Dr. ... thank you for your insight.  As far as the current EE .. I have met very few that can't get their heads out of the Book Laws and the theories that they seem to accept as fact based around what the Laws will allow them to do.  Unfortunatly the ones that think outside of the box they seem to loose funding very quickly or not get any at all, this I think is a great loss.  I am by no means the greatest mind but do like to think that what I have does me alright along with some commen sense.  I am not one that believes in overunity but do believe that one can manipulate energy and its very dimensions by many means and ways.  I am not easily convinced and seeing is believing .. nice work.

@All

On to the my humble attept to replicate the SEC ... I am not sure if it is running in SEC mode .. I do know that the coil has various spots where the led and neon get brighter.  Have not had time to take any readings yet.

L1 - 10uH - should be only one but the LCR meter shows one only to be 5uH - gets me to 10uH
L2 - 20uH - variable coil (ripped from some phone), looks like the windings are 34awg or smaller

LB - 2.3uH - 9.8uH on top windings of 28awg / 7.3uH - 23uH on the bottom windings which go the just past the length of the ferrite slug and then to the middle wound to the same direction

Neon - not sure had to get one out of an indicator light 110v ... cut the resistor off.- will find out though
Led - just from a bag of leds that I have .. 2.8volts to run and a few ma's - will find out specs

The Led plug is plugged into the L2 - the Neon one leg is touching the one leg of the Led plug and not connected to directly to the L2 but through the led .. the Neon is also set up like the Led plug .. out of frustration I did it this way to try out as I was not getting it to light up the way it is in the current SEC circuit, I am sure this is no supprise to Dr. Stiffler but it was for me.

I do plan on building a calorimeter now and hope that the local electronics place will finally have a 400 - 470pf cap.  I will take the readings and post .. good or bad they are results ( I am sure that the Dr. has lots but what the hec, I would not mind a few in the log book and maybe they might be of use)

I would load a larger image not sure on how to here .. 50KB limit on the size .. can't figure out on how to imbed the image in here.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 23, 2008, 04:12:48 AM
feable attempt to load larger image .. edit out
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on April 23, 2008, 07:43:34 AM
Hi nickle989 and others,
if you want to successfully publish photos as .jpg files in accordance with the 50 kB file size restriction, you should
not reduce the "image size" which is usually stated in pixels or inches or cm or such like.
You  want to reduce the "file size" (without reducing the image size).
This you do by increasing the "compression factor" which is the same as lowering the "image quality".
Try the settings for "lowest quality" or "strongest compression" (which mostly is still good enough for publishing on the internet).

Usually these options come up last, just before the image is actually "saved as...".
I am sure somebody will take you through the actual steps of this process, if you give the name of the image manipulation program you use.
Good luck.
Sorry for being off topic.

@ Doc or Loki, etc.
I think the Doc uses resistors for the 22uH inductor and the 10 uH inductor in the exciter.
No?
(http://67.76.235.52/images/SEC15_3.jpg)
What are the values (ohm) of these resistors?

Thanks

PS I hope it is no offense to link to the above image on the Doc's website.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 23, 2008, 01:03:20 PM
@Gustav22,
They are not resistors. They are epoxy coated RF chokes in exactly the stated values.

@All,
Deviations from Dr. Stifflers designs will result in testing your own twists of his circuit design and not the design as presented by the inventor. We must reproduce the circuits exactly as presented. This I would say is the driving force behind the SEC exciter boards currently shipping. Once again TRUST me on this one. I have been off on many a tangent with this one and it just leaves me wondering around in the dark. IT IS MY OWN FAULT when I do this! When I follow what has been presented correctly it works. Now I'm figuring out how to measure this device correctly.

Best regards and stay out of the dark,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on April 23, 2008, 03:19:06 PM
@Gustav22,
They are not resistors. They are epoxy coated RF chokes in exactly the stated values.
Ayyy! I finally made a real fool of myself.
Anyway, thanks for your answer Loki.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 23, 2008, 05:16:43 PM
@the Dr. ... thank you for your insight.  As far as the current EE .. I have met very few that can't get their heads out of the Book Laws and the theories that they seem to accept as fact based around what the Laws will allow them to do.  Unfortunatly the ones that think outside of the box they seem to loose funding very quickly or not get any at all, this I think is a great loss.  I am by no means the greatest mind but do like to think that what I have does me alright along with some commen sense.  I am not one that believes in overunity but do believe that one can manipulate energy and its very dimensions by many means and ways.  I am not easily convinced and seeing is believing .. nice work.

@All

On to the my humble attept to replicate the SEC ... I am not sure if it is running in SEC mode .. I do know that the coil has various spots where the led and neon get brighter.  Have not had time to take any readings yet.

L1 - 10uH - should be only one but the LCR meter shows one only to be 5uH - gets me to 10uH
L2 - 20uH - variable coil (ripped from some phone), looks like the windings are 34awg or smaller

LB - 2.3uH - 9.8uH on top windings of 28awg / 7.3uH - 23uH on the bottom windings which go the just past the length of the ferrite slug and then to the middle wound to the same direction

Neon - not sure had to get one out of an indicator light 110v ... cut the resistor off.- will find out though
Led - just from a bag of leds that I have .. 2.8volts to run and a few ma's - will find out specs

The Led plug is plugged into the L2 - the Neon one leg is touching the one leg of the Led plug and not connected to directly to the L2 but through the led .. the Neon is also set up like the Led plug .. out of frustration I did it this way to try out as I was not getting it to light up the way it is in the current SEC circuit, I am sure this is no supprise to Dr. Stiffler but it was for me.

I do plan on building a calorimeter now and hope that the local electronics place will finally have a 400 - 470pf cap.  I will take the readings and post .. good or bad they are results ( I am sure that the Dr. has lots but what the hec, I would not mind a few in the log book and maybe they might be of use)

I would load a larger image not sure on how to here .. 50KB limit on the size .. can't figure out on how to imbed the image in here.
@nickle989
Some quick notes that will help you.

You have much to much circuit capacity, (hard to see in the picture) but the lead lengths are way to long. Get everything closer together. The board has enough capacity and any added extra is defeating.

What is this about the coil? You talk about double winding and the picture looks like a transformer (more than one winding). If this is in the base, no good. single winding of at least #26, smaller is bad.

I'll be back later in case you get a chance to respond.

Thanks for the work, you are getting there....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 23, 2008, 08:15:24 PM
@All
If you are attending a University and a SEC Exciter pops up, please let me know if I'm being used as a bad example. Why are so many Exciters going to schools?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on April 23, 2008, 10:23:33 PM
Quote
What is this about the coil? You talk about double winding and the picture looks like a transformer (more than one winding). If this is in the base, no good. single winding of at least #26, smaller is bad.

@ the Dr.  ... the top coil is wound with #28 and the bottom coil is wound with #26 .. in order for me to achieve the increase uH I needed to double up on the bottom coil half way to increase the L .... I wound 2 coils on one form as I was just trying to get it to work somewhat.  I need to get some of the other forms .. but it is not that easy for me to do ... hense the reason for me doing the other way. I did notice that the bottom coil did give a brighter result on both plugs.  Have not had enough time with a working unit yet.  I can see a stirling side of your work.

Will tighten up the circuit forsure (looks like a frankinwire design).... some of the holes on the board provided no value at all and some were way of the charts ... is there an overall value that I should be trying to achieve or a range to keep it within?

@all - Calorimeter - http://www.circuitcellar.com/AVR2004/HA3688.html ... this may be something of value to build ... I have not looked at it very closely but it looks like it could be modified to gain some decent results in the data log.  Maybe Dr. Stiffler can take a peak at it ... if the code needs to be modded I can do that and recompile it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 24, 2008, 12:55:44 PM
@All
Alright folks........the SEC boards are shipping from Dr. Stiffler to a bunch of us including universities. I would like hear what some of your intentions are when you receive it.  ;D What do you want to do with a SEC exciter?  ;D Have you experimented with breadboarding this circuit?

I am a test developer professionally and I will eventually get this test design correct but unfortunately it won't be fast! I have a 4 1/2 year old that doesn't care about the details of heating water.  ::)

Call for help: We need someone with skill and experience in calorimetry and thermodynamics, yes those of you that say this is impossible need to prove it in unbiased open testing and analysis or just stay quiet, to take the lead in designing an effective and accurate method of performing the required calorimetry on the SEC exciters. Bottom line is, regardless of your bias, degrees, profession, and/or technical opinions if you haven't built and tested this device then you have no voice of any value to this specific effort. You can contact me via this forum or PM intially if so desired.

I don't know how many, if any at all, will come forward.  :-\ If I have to do this by myself then by God that's what I'm going to do!  ;D

Best regards everybody,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 24, 2008, 01:10:29 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
As you can see I'm trying to get the formal public testing effort going. Your input is obviously welcome and needed, BUT, man your fingers and back have to be whooped after all of that assembly work and the associated ordering and mailing and processing and etc. etc. I fully understand the magnitude of what you have just done. I just wanted to thank you for all of the hard work.   8) Please keep us goofballs on the strait and narrow when you have the chance sir. Thanks!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 24, 2008, 02:37:52 PM
DR Stiffler I noticed yesterday JDLN labs had a do it your self cold fusion [link is at top left of this Forum]  they say they made a DIY Calorimeter maybe a good contact ? you would know if it would work here better than I  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 24, 2008, 03:27:28 PM
@All
Alright folks........the SEC boards are shipping from Dr. Stiffler to a bunch of us including universities. I would like hear what some of your intentions are when you receive it.  ;D What do you want to do with a SEC exciter?  ;D Have you experimented with breadboarding this circuit?

I am a test developer professionally and I will eventually get this test design correct but unfortunately it won't be fast! I have a 4 1/2 year old that doesn't care about the details of heating water.  ::)

Call for help: We need someone with skill and experience in calorimetry and thermodynamics, yes those of you that say this is impossible need to prove it in unbiased open testing and analysis or just stay quiet, to take the lead in designing an effective and accurate method of performing the required calorimetry on the SEC exciters. Bottom line is, regardless of your bias, degrees, profession, and/or technical opinions if you haven't built and tested this device then you have no voice of any value to this specific effort. You can contact me via this forum or PM intially if so desired.

I don't know how many, if any at all, will come forward.  :-\ If I have to do this by myself then by God that's what I'm going to do!  ;D

Best regards everybody,

Jim
@Loki67671
@All
Please no one take offense with any of the following as I mean (I hope) is a logical approach to what will be and is taking place.

I believe it is naive or wishful day dreams to hope for or hold out for a reputable university or testing lab to post results on this forum (nothing wrong with the forum) as it is not the venue that the community would use. You will never see an outright admission of any success if found, why, because it would be so profound that it would require decades of research before it could be accepted. If we were to see an announcement someplace of utter failure, I would be highly suspect and be so inclined to at once make ever effort to see for myself if this was the correct answer, really you should find out before.

I do not distrust all of the scientific community, I just understand that it does not work like we would hope it to. What we all look for in this (overunity.com) community is an answer to todays problems, not a solution that will take affect a decade from now, so with that feeling we are quick to judge, dismiss and accept what fits into our (hopes) goal of wanting it now to ease the pain that this energy burden has created.

You will not be happy in your own mind unless you know for yourself that a fact is indeed a fact. This is of course hard and impossible for some. I heard on tv the other day a politician make a statement about politics, 'If you don't want to fight, don't put on the uniform' A quote from B. Clinton.

So if you find excuses to stop you from finding the answer yourselves, then so be it, but remain silent in that direction because otherwise you are only repeating what you do not know as fact. I have said it a couple of times on this thread, 'People believe what they already know'. Yet it seem they are also more willing to accept the negative than the positive when coming from a third party.

I do not expect even one announcement of success, I fully expect a downpour of negatives. Some of these negatives will be real, the result of improper testing, testing in a way that would not disclose the actual desired result. Testing that was done in a way that was designed to fail. Then there will be the real failures, understanding of the system causing one or more factors to indeed cancel any and all fruitful result.

Now where and by who will these results be posted or seen or heard. I won't name them but if you have been around long enough you will know of what I speak. Places that talk of AE involving Sea Power, Solar for Every Home, Gas from Grass, you know the places that push things that even your grandchildren will not have.

I know and am comfortable. But 'you' need to do this for yourself to see, it is a bit difficult and maybe you will mis a game or two or have the wife yell at you, but if you don't, well what more can I say...........

There is no free lunch and take is cheap on the net, right....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 24, 2008, 03:52:18 PM
DR Stiffler I noticed yesterday JDLN labs had a do it your self cold fusion [link is at top left of this Forum]  they say they made a DIY Calorimeter maybe a good contact ? you would know if it would work here better than I  Chet
@ramset
JLN for some reason seemed to drop off the edge of AE and devote to flight. The work he (they) have done in the past has been good and they seem to have unlimited resources, but not unlike the rest of us have made some mistakes and some real advancement. I have not seem the site in some time so can not say what is going on now, although from the past his work was supported by equipment that was a bit above budget for the average experimenter.

You can build a calorimeter that will work cheap. I just do not have the time now to go to the dollar shore and build shopping list for all, imagination, inventiveness, just a little is all it takes. When I get a chance I guess its the only way..............
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 24, 2008, 06:10:05 PM
@SEC Exciter Board Owners
Please be sure to check for the latest Manual, the current Manual is SECExciterRev1_1.pdf and can be downloaded from the location supplied you with the board.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 25, 2008, 12:39:24 PM
Anybody else getting some heat? Mine seem to work almost just like this one.  ;D We're having fun now! The weekend is here and comparative study begins for me. Very nice work Dr. Stiffler.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on April 25, 2008, 10:29:13 PM
@RStiffler
Quote
Now where and by who will these results be posted or seen or heard. I won't name them but if you have been around long enough you will know of what I speak. Places that talk of AE involving Sea Power, Solar for Every Home, Gas from Grass, you know the places that push things that even your grandchildren will not have.
I know and am comfortable. But 'you' need to do this for yourself to see, it is a bit difficult and maybe you will mis a game or two or have the wife yell at you, but if you don't, well what more can I say...........
I agree, I think you are on the right track that the scientific community will not accept this technology any time soon. Personally I do not think there approval is needed, If you released plans for a working unit to power larger conventional loads and these were proven and reproduced by thousands of people and sold on eBay for example then there approval has no relevancy. They are there to prove or disprove theories but it is the consumer who has the final say not the scientific community--- we decide not them. As well if there is an expectation of large profits corperations will jump on board irregardless of what any technical person has to say. But this success only applies if the technology is made public and proven in a public forum otherwise it will dissappear as so many technologies have for various reasons.
I think so far you have done everything exactly right and hope this all works out.
Best regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on April 27, 2008, 10:05:31 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler, I'm the Spanish order, thanks for making these boards available worldwide. Don't worry about the delay.

@all
It's a pleasure to join you all in this adventure.

I'm thinking about calorimetry, I've ordered a decent glass lab thermometer and will get busy with styrofoam, tinfoil, cans etc. I'm looking for the lightest foam available so it has low thermal conductivity and also low thermal capacitance so the calorimeter will react quickly.

In order to measure thermal characteristics of my calorimeter I will take a 1/4watt resistor and run different DC power levels through it, this will give me a known heat source. I will try the resistor below the metal pot and also immersed in the water with the resistor leads varnish dipped to prevent electrolysis action. I'll try and get photos of my calorimeter efforts in a day or so along with some figures regarding accuracy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 27, 2008, 10:30:33 PM
Hi Dr. Stiffler, I'm the Spanish order, thanks for making these boards available worldwide. Don't worry about the delay.

@all
It's a pleasure to join you all in this adventure.

I'm thinking about calorimetry, I've ordered a decent glass lab thermometer and will get busy with styrofoam, tinfoil, cans etc. I'm looking for the lightest foam available so it has low thermal conductivity and also low thermal capacitance so the calorimeter will react quickly.

In order to measure thermal characteristics of my calorimeter I will take a 1/4watt resistor and run different DC power levels through it, this will give me a known heat source. I will try the resistor below the metal pot and also immersed in the water with the resistor leads varnish dipped to prevent electrolysis action. I'll try and get photos of my calorimeter efforts in a day or so along with some figures regarding accuracy.
@Yucca
Well without exposing your real name, you are one of the Spanish orders. I will say that Spain is really into this as I have already shipped from first batch many to Spain. Anyway if you are waiting I am sorry, my Hong Kong supplier of LEDs said 'no problem, send air mail, get double quick time'. Problem is what is double quick compared to?

I have learned a lesson here, have everything in hand before making the offering (with many extra). When I order something I want it tomorrow and I think everyone else should be thought to be the same. So again all (some 20 of you) the boards are built, get the LEDs, solder them in and ship. Hey the boxes are addressed and Customs Doc's are filled out.

You idea for a calorimeter sounds good, but you may want to consider the following things if you will be using a Heat Exchanger design, 1) Plan on 500mL of water in the exchanger. 2) Use a 1/2W or 1W calibration resistor. The SEC Exciter will be about 3/4W or more. 3) Don't forget stirring, (slow, hand or automated) but that water will have very defined thermal levels and where ever you place the thermometer may be right in one and not be an accurate indication of what is going on on the exchanger.

@All
I will be putting up a video on YouTube in the next 36 hours and will post a link here. It will show how to prepare a SEC15-3 for Heat Measurement in a Calorimeter. A bit of touch up is required and the video will show that.

So stay tuned till I get it edited.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on April 27, 2008, 11:34:46 PM
Got the SEC exciter boards today... I've been playing with these a bit and there is definitely something very strange going on, nothing like this in any textbook.

Using 19.8V supply voltage:

Draw at anode: 13.58mA
Draw at cathode: 13.58mA

Scope probe at neon, at anode of 1N4148 diode:
The best reading I got showed waveform period of 0.07us , for freq= 12.5Mhz-12.98Mhz.  The waveform is complex.  I would not trust this reading.

(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9586/secexciternw9.jpg)

-Feynman

PS
One interesting thing I discovered by accident... I connected the (+) side of my SEC exciter to my power supply, and then I clipped my scope ground (-) onto the negative side of the SEC, and the neon lit up.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 28, 2008, 12:16:01 AM
Got the SEC exciter boards today... I've been playing with these a bit and there is definitely something very strange going on, nothing like this in any textbook.

Using 19.8V supply voltage:

Draw at anode: 13.58mA
Draw at cathode: 13.58mA

Scope probe at neon, at anode of 1N4148 diode:
The best reading I got showed waveform period of 0.07us , for freq= 12.5Mhz-12.98Mhz.  The waveform is complex.  I would not trust this reading.

(http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9586/secexciternw9.jpg)

-Feynman

PS
One interesting thing I discovered by accident... I connected the (+) side of my SEC exciter to my power supply, and then I clipped my scope ground (-) onto the negative side of the SEC, and the neon lit up.



I am guessing that your scope is grounded to the service as is the ground leg of your power supply. What is happening is that the power supply ground is being returned through the scope ground. Now if your power supply is isolated (floating on both the -V and +V) then it could be interesting that it is firing through such a high impedance.

If you think this is a bit strange, wait for the video and see some really strange things happen.

@All
The circuit boards are stable, in other words they are compact enough that you can hold one by the edges in your hand and tune it without screwing it up when you sit it back down. You can wave your hand over and around it without detuning, this in most case is not possible with the proto-boards.

If you have not ordered a board and are going to the SEC15-3 is the one that can be played with and worked with, while the SEC15-20 is a demo boards that shows the chaining of the AV Plugs and powering LEDs and a Neon. The SEC15-20 is for study and measurement and not recommended for modification. If you are going to play with it and make some future modifications, then the SEC15-3 is what you want.

I can ship SEC15-3's within 24 hours, but the SEC15-20's are all piled up waiting LEDs.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 28, 2008, 02:44:10 AM
@All,
While I'm waiting on my copper supplies I'm just experimenting with SEC exciters driving BIG 1W LED's. 6 of them at about 850mw in. As you can see I could read by this easily, if they were the white variety.  ;D Avago Technologies ASMT-MB00-NAE00 in case anyone is interested in the data sheets and spec's just Google. I still need to get rid of all of the metal fasteners on my experimenting platform and this will happen tomorrow. I'm changing it all to nylon fasteners and standoffs.

Welcome everybody, good hunting.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 28, 2008, 04:10:20 AM
Here is a little fun. 139mw input power.  ;D I love exploring this circuit.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 28, 2008, 01:20:05 PM
@All,
Additional notes and observations:
In both series everything is (subjective). The input power is being measured on one of my decoupling boards. I'll be continuing to look at this and the leg current relationship as soon as I get another meter in there.  ;D

In the first series of shots it was actually a little higher input power (15.42vdc) X (0.042amp) = 0.987watts
The LED's are gleaming stars at that point and some serious noise is messing with the Flat Panel monitor in behind.
The tuning point here is the second peak just as the slug is about half way in and out of the top of the form. Driving the slug down into the form finds another really bright peak at 20ma to 25ma higher current from the supply.

In the second series I was watching the LED's as I slowly increased the supply voltage. The three blue LED's in the first AV plug are glowing very dim at just a little over 2.33vdc supply voltage and I don't have the correct meter for a current measurement. The fluke shows .000ma .
At 3.45vdc, 4ma input the blues are illuminated and the green on the second AV plug are glowing.
The shot of the input power was one of a series where I turned the camera flash back on and took a guess at what the camera was going to see. I was subjective tuning in the dark. This peak is about 2 to 2.5 turns out farther than the above series at which is at a higher input power. It is also repeatable and consistent. (Once again all subjective perception) All just experimenting with the circuit.

Enjoy and best regards,

Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 28, 2008, 05:05:11 PM
@ALL

I have the first video up on YT, covering the basic tuning of the SEC15-3 Exciter. More videos to follow.

See the latest at         http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUut_dQcmzY
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 28, 2008, 05:20:31 PM
Dr. Stiffler:

Great video!  (I gave it 5 stars) For some reason, it seems to cut off at about the 3 minute mark.  Is this a part 1?  Your boards are impressive. I am fascinated by your work here.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 28, 2008, 06:52:47 PM
@ALL

Another video on some points about the circuit board that one needs to know as we now move forward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VLyASHl3n4
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 28, 2008, 08:07:38 PM
@ALL

Great video day, yes?  ;D

Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.

This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 28, 2008, 09:55:33 PM
@ALL

FOR THOSE THAT WERE TOLD YOUR SEC15-20 BOARDS WOULD BE SHIPPED ON OR BEFORE 4/30/08, "WE ARE LUCKY"

3000 LEDs just arrived and your boards will be shipped on time.......... :)

Thank You for waiting, I goofed on my ordering.......
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 28, 2008, 10:23:25 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,

thank you sir. I can barely wait to get my board here at home to play with it. This SEC is really weird. I can light many LEDs just using the ground and getting it close to a running SEC. Lots of energy everywhere near it.

One question, why when connecting the ground to a separate board having only AV plugs, chokes and LEDS would not only light but also "decrease" the power usage of the SEC? (as you've seen on my videos).


@All

Which other transistor could I use instead of the PN2222A that would allow more power through it? Currently my SEC is using it (some battery charging experiments, so far sucesfull) BUT it gets very hot and only touching the board it will instantly burn it. I already burned about 30 or more. I need a more powerfull transistor BUT with the same exactly characteristis of the PN2222A.

Anyone, please????

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: mudwump on April 28, 2008, 10:36:28 PM
Maybe something like this would work. I have not tried it though.

http://www.zetex.com/3.0/pdf/ZTX453.pdf


@Dr. Stiffler,

thank you sir. I can barely wait to get my board here at home to play with it. This SEC is really weird. I can light many LEDs just using the ground and getting it close to a running SEC. Lots of energy everywhere near it.

One question, why when connecting the ground to a separate board having only AV plugs, chokes and LEDS would not only light but also "decrease" the power usage of the SEC? (as you've seen on my videos).


@All

Which other transistor could I use instead of the PN2222A that would allow more power through it? Currently my SEC is using it (some battery charging experiments, so far sucesfull) BUT it gets very hot and only touching the board it will instantly burn it. I already burned about 30 or more. I need a more powerfull transistor BUT with the same exactly characteristis of the PN2222A.

Anyone, please????

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 29, 2008, 12:21:22 AM
@ALL

Great video day, yes?  ;D

Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.

This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs

@Dr. Stiffler,
Indeed a great video day! I noticed some strange effects between Neon's when I was running two SEC exciters side by side or now in correct terminology sharing the window. Obviously it would be a tough call as to what was going on since I was struggling with the listening to you about the parasitic capacitance. Thanks for the information.  ;D It opens new windows.  ;D Literally. I'll be looking at it for sure.  8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 29, 2008, 01:19:00 AM
@ALL

Great video day, yes?  ;D

Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.

This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs

@Dr. Stiffler,
Indeed a great video day! I noticed some strange effects between Neon's when I was running two SEC exciters side by side or now in correct terminology sharing the window. Obviously it would be a tough call as to what was going on since I was struggling with the listening to you about the parasitic capacitance. Thanks for the information.  ;D It opens new windows.  ;D Literally. I'll be looking at it for sure.  8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim

@Loki
Stay tuned, the parasitic capacity is alive and well, the next video will cover that exact issue.

Well if you don't like "Window" maybe we could be more Star Trek and say something like 'Spacial Rift' or 'Rip in the Spacial Fabric'??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 29, 2008, 01:28:30 AM
DR STIFFLER I like window  it leaves much to the imagination  and seems quite true PS great video"s thankyou  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 29, 2008, 02:36:39 AM
Hey Doc,

Pirate88179 was right, the SEC 10.3 video does cut off at 3:02 right in the middle of the sentence while you are showing the analyzer frequency.

By the way I see this is a Meili spectrum analyzer, which one? I read somewhere that people were not too happy with this brand because it drifts in frequency and only has one decimal point display making it hard to tune things...

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 29, 2008, 02:37:20 AM
@ALL

Great video day, yes?  ;D

Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.

This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs

@Dr. Stiffler,
Indeed a great video day! I noticed some strange effects between Neon's when I was running two SEC exciters side by side or now in correct terminology sharing the window. Obviously it would be a tough call as to what was going on since I was struggling with the listening to you about the parasitic capacitance. Thanks for the information.  ;D It opens new windows.  ;D Literally. I'll be looking at it for sure.  8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim

@Loki
Stay tuned, the parasitic capacity is alive and well, the next video will cover that exact issue.

Well if you don't like "Window" maybe we could be more Star Trek and say something like 'Spacial Rift' or 'Rip in the Spacial Fabric'??

@Dr Stiffler,
The mind struggles to add substance to the abstract concepts. That is a bit more descriptive but not necessary for me at least. The interface is quite adequate if it is appropriate.  :D Whatever it is you should have seen the looks in the EE world at photos of the big LED's blazing bright.  8) Cool experiment. I Have to get my hands on some new diddle sticks, seems I've been spinning alot of slugs.  ;D The parasitic capacity, yes I look forward to it.  8) And actually I do like window aside from the MS Windows connotations.  ::) I must admit though, I run windoz and fedora.  :o

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 29, 2008, 03:28:21 AM
Hey Doc,

Pirate88179 was right, the SEC 10.3 video does cut off at 3:02 right in the middle of the sentence while you are showing the analyzer frequency.

By the way I see this is a Meili spectrum analyzer, which one? I read somewhere that people were not too happy with this brand because it drifts in frequency and only has one decimal point display making it hard to tune things...

Thanks.
@amigo
I just ended it there, sloppy maybe, but hey!

Meili has some problems and if you do not have a metal shop and some ability at working with RF then it should be considered a hobby unit. I think I put about 7 hours into metal work, they do not understand square and needed some modification. The electronics has another 10-12 hours into it, but now it is a fair unit for a grand plus some work. If you plan on getting one, I would say no unless you are going to get into it (maybe deep).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 29, 2008, 03:33:21 AM
@ALL

Great video day, yes?  ;D

Okay, take a look at two SEC Exciters sharing the same Spatial Window as they move into synchronization. One is slightly modified to better accept the Spacial Energy.

This is a must see and must study for the next one to come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRmPxwrNvKs

@Dr. Stiffler,
Indeed a great video day! I noticed some strange effects between Neon's when I was running two SEC exciters side by side or now in correct terminology sharing the window. Obviously it would be a tough call as to what was going on since I was struggling with the listening to you about the parasitic capacitance. Thanks for the information.  ;D It opens new windows.  ;D Literally. I'll be looking at it for sure.  8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim

@Loki
Stay tuned, the parasitic capacity is alive and well, the next video will cover that exact issue.

Well if you don't like "Window" maybe we could be more Star Trek and say something like 'Spacial Rift' or 'Rip in the Spacial Fabric'??

@Dr Stiffler,
The mind struggles to add substance to the abstract concepts. That is a bit more descriptive but not necessary for me at least. The interface is quite adequate if it is appropriate.  :D Whatever it is you should have seen the looks in the EE world at photos of the big LED's blazing bright.  8) Cool experiment. I Have to get my hands on some new diddle sticks, seems I've been spinning alot of slugs.  ;D The parasitic capacity, yes I look forward to it.  8) And actually I do like window aside from the MS Windows connotations.  ::) I must admit though, I run windoz and fedora.  :o

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki
Looking for a Window into you coming quantitative results.  ;) :-\

Well I guess its my theory so I can call it what I want :-\ 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 29, 2008, 04:07:43 AM
Meili has some problems and if you do not have a metal shop and some ability at working with RF then it should be considered a hobby unit. I think I put about 7 hours into metal work, they do not understand square and needed some modification. The electronics has another 10-12 hours into it, but now it is a fair unit for a grand plus some work. If you plan on getting one, I would say no unless you are going to get into it (maybe deep).


Are you saying that you had to mod yours to get it working the way you wanted? If so then it's definitely not worth getting for a hobbyist like me.

Any other units you could suggest that can do up to 1GHz (I know you hate questions like this but humor me, please, since I'm clueless about spectrum analyzers)?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 29, 2008, 01:40:04 PM
Meili has some problems and if you do not have a metal shop and some ability at working with RF then it should be considered a hobby unit. I think I put about 7 hours into metal work, they do not understand square and needed some modification. The electronics has another 10-12 hours into it, but now it is a fair unit for a grand plus some work. If you plan on getting one, I would say no unless you are going to get into it (maybe deep).


Are you saying that you had to mod yours to get it working the way you wanted? If so then it's definitely not worth getting for a hobbyist like me.

Any other units you could suggest that can do up to 1GHz (I know you hate questions like this but humor me, please, since I'm clueless about spectrum analyzers)?
That is what I mean. First mine would not stay on as the metal work was so bad the switch kept popping out. Then a ribbon cable passing thru the chassis was shorting because they had sharp
metal edges. Had to add friction clutches to freq and marker controls. They are ten turn pots and were free wheeling, could never adjust stable. The tube is weak, dim if you will. Yes they drift unless fixed.

They do not care either.

Try looking at the Hameg
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 29, 2008, 03:55:08 PM
Hi Plengo,
just watched your last SEC battery charging movies on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iju4w7lLM8

Are you saying you can charge the 12 Volts battery fully
from empty with 13.8 Watthours of energy and then it contains 1200 Watthours of energy ?
(12 Volts x 100 Amphours= 1200 Wattshours of energy)?

Great video, how do you connect your pickup coil and what kind of wire is on it ?

Regards, Stefan.
P.S. My SEC circuit did not yet come in.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 29, 2008, 04:49:48 PM
@Doc
nice new videos and explained very well.

Is the second neon in the last video showing a  beat frequency ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 29, 2008, 05:56:32 PM
Quote
@Loki
Looking for a Window into you coming quantitative results.   

Well I guess its my theory so I can call it what I want   

Yes, the quantitative results, I'm working on it and also looking forward to that.  ;D

Of course it's your theory and I'm not making fun of the name. I like standardized nomenclatures!  ;D

The water vessel is my hold-up right at the moment but I will find a solution to that problem also. Zinc has about the same specific heat as copper, I wonder????
Besides I haven't even started debugging the and shielding the sensors or DAQ's. Much to do!  ;D I need some technicians.  ::)

I'm going forward as fast as I can.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 29, 2008, 07:15:38 PM
@Doc
nice new videos and explained very well.

Is the second neon in the last video showing a  beat frequency ?
@Stephan

Well if you want to look at it that way, yes. But the added energy causing the arc over when the two exciters sync is not being supplied by the other oscillator, if it were you would see a dimming in the oscillator which was being pulled from. They are a good 3-4cm apart.

As the two exciter frequencies drift into and out of sync is when the input energy is increased. You do not see it in the front exciter as it does not have a parasitic plate which will be explained in the next video.

Sorry your board is not there yet. I found my LED's for example sat in China for 5 days after shipped, then it only took 5 to get to me, but may be the same thing here. I so hate the shipping issues when out of the US or into the US, I think idiots run it all.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 29, 2008, 07:16:09 PM
Maybe something like this would work. I have not tried it though.

http://www.zetex.com/3.0/pdf/ZTX453.pdf


@Dr. Stiffler,

thank you sir. I can barely wait to get my board here at home to play with it. This SEC is really weird. I can light many LEDs just using the ground and getting it close to a running SEC. Lots of energy everywhere near it.

One question, why when connecting the ground to a separate board having only AV plugs, chokes and LEDS would not only light but also "decrease" the power usage of the SEC? (as you've seen on my videos).


@All

Which other transistor could I use instead of the PN2222A that would allow more power through it? Currently my SEC is using it (some battery charging experiments, so far sucesfull) BUT it gets very hot and only touching the board it will instantly burn it. I already burned about 30 or more. I need a more powerfull transistor BUT with the same exactly characteristis of the PN2222A.

Anyone, please????

Fausto.

Fausto,
Make sure that you look at the hfe of the transistor, breakdown voltages, and the other specifications. Data sheet compare first and then measure your hfe values of the transistor you choose. I would say try using two very comparable transistors, like your 2222's, or the MPSA06's, in parallel as Dr. Stiffler has shown. The hfe values must be close if not exact for them to actually divide the load of work evenly. Also are you using heat sinks? Are you running above 24vdc? Just some ideas.
If that doesn't help let me know and I will try to help you out.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 29, 2008, 07:22:58 PM
Quote
@Loki
Looking for a Window into you coming quantitative results.   

Well I guess its my theory so I can call it what I want   

Yes, the quantitative results, I'm working on it and also looking forward to that.  ;D

Of course it's your theory and I'm not making fun of the name. I like standardized nomenclatures!  ;D

The water vessel is my hold-up right at the moment but I will find a solution to that problem also. Zinc has about the same specific heat as copper, I wonder????
Besides I haven't even started debugging the and shielding the sensors or DAQ's. Much to do!  ;D I need some technicians.  ::)

I'm going forward as fast as I can.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
@ Loki
Have you looked at my site or the pictures I sent you direct. The container I use can be picked up in almost any cooking or housewares store for around $9. You paint the bottom a flat black, drill a couple of holes in the top and wrap the thing in insulation.

You are making it far to difficult for yourself, the SS container works fine when calibrated, has a plastic top, easy to work with, maybe your wife is storing coffee in one you can take.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 29, 2008, 07:28:08 PM
Maybe something like this would work. I have not tried it though.

http://www.zetex.com/3.0/pdf/ZTX453.pdf


@Dr. Stiffler,

thank you sir. I can barely wait to get my board here at home to play with it. This SEC is really weird. I can light many LEDs just using the ground and getting it close to a running SEC. Lots of energy everywhere near it.

One question, why when connecting the ground to a separate board having only AV plugs, chokes and LEDS would not only light but also "decrease" the power usage of the SEC? (as you've seen on my videos).


@All

Which other transistor could I use instead of the PN2222A that would allow more power through it? Currently my SEC is using it (some battery charging experiments, so far sucesfull) BUT it gets very hot and only touching the board it will instantly burn it. I already burned about 30 or more. I need a more powerfull transistor BUT with the same exactly characteristis of the PN2222A.

Anyone, please????

Fausto.

Fausto,
Make sure that you look at the hfe of the transistor, breakdown voltages, and the other specifications. Data sheet compare first and then measure your hfe values of the transistor you choose. I would say try using two very comparable transistors, like your 2222's, or the MPSA06's, in parallel as Dr. Stiffler has shown. The hfe values must be close if not exact for them to actually divide the load of work evenly. Also are you using heat sinks? Are you running above 24vdc? Just some ideas.
If that doesn't help let me know and I will try to help you out.

Best regards,

Jim
@Fausto
You can indeed put the xistors in parallel, but I would use like 10ohm resistors in each base back to the feed point. This way any difference in BE potential will not cause one xistor to conduct higher than the other. Keeping the resistor small will not cause a problem and will alow offsets to be ignored.

I would like to see you try this before going to another transistor, I never liked the PN's they are wild at lower voltages and do not work well at all as a SEC Exciter.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on April 29, 2008, 08:01:06 PM
@Dr.S
I usually work with TTL level stuff not used to high frequency high voltage certainly not used to cold electricity or scalar stuff! So a quick question about the SEC boards; is it safe to stick a 10x probe anywhere on the board or do I run the risk of zapping my scope (1Mohm 15pF <=400v)? I have a nice 100x probe on order which should definitely be safe right?

@Loki
I'm impressed with that array of 6x1W LEDs you're lighting up there. Out of interest, to get a similar luminosity, how much DC power would you have to feed them? Probably much more than 139mW I'm sure. Probably more than 139mW even if you fed them low markspace ratio PWM at high freq, SEC looks like a very interesting circuit for sure. Wish I had the parts in stock, to proto it, can't wait for Dr.S's boards to arrive! :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 29, 2008, 08:23:39 PM
Quote
@ Loki
Have you looked at my site or the pictures I sent you direct. The container I use can be picked up in almost any cooking or housewares store for around $9. You paint the bottom a flat black, drill a couple of holes in the top and wrap the thing in insulation.

You are making it far to difficult for yourself, the SS container works fine when calibrated, has a plastic top, easy to work with, maybe your wife is storing coffee in one you can take.


Indeed. I'm not sure of the pictures you are talking about but no worries now.  ;) Will be taking care of this business shortly.  ;D 

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 29, 2008, 09:17:26 PM
@Stefan

no. I charged so far using 13watts of power from 12.30v to 12.46v. So I believe it will take less than 40watts to fully charge the battery to 12.65v and about 30 to 40 hours max. It is right now charging.

Usually when I do that with my SSG with 6 coils, it takes about 20 hours and 100watts of power to charge it fully to 12.65v.

I also already charged this 100Ah battery once and tested a load to see if it is really a good charge, real power and it is. Now I changed my SEC a little bit more to charge it faster.

This week I will know for sure if it will work better than well. I hope is OU too, cross fingers.

@Dr.Stiffer
Thanks for the tip. I already tested with so many transistor types and the best were MPSA06 and the PN2222 GP. Now with a bigger hit sink it seams to stand well the 20v and 130ma input power. I want to go to 24volts.

I also noticed the ground connection makes a HUGE difference in the amount of power that goes to the battery. I used some extra AV plugs and LEDS to get to the best charging signal. I am also able to run a little motor that serves as a good "measuring rod" concerning the kind of signal the SEC is generating. If it spins faster it also charges the battery faster but not necessarily sends more current to the battery. Right now only 60ma goes to the positive terminal of the battery and it does not even warm up a one ohm resistor which proves it is really small current going in (those are tricks from the Bedini Monopole SSG forum).

What is interesting too is that as I increase the input voltage the speed that it charges the battery is not linear, higher input voltage, much higher charging (kind of like exponential or progressive).

I also tried two SEC together but no luck, they all see each other and interfere substantially the outcome. I thought if one charges, what about 10, would it be 10x faster??? Do you know how to decouple them so that I could use 10 SECs together?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 01:07:09 AM
@Dr.S
I usually work with TTL level stuff not used to high frequency high voltage certainly not used to cold electricity or scalar stuff! So a quick question about the SEC boards; is it safe to stick a 10x probe anywhere on the board or do I run the risk of zapping my scope (1Mohm 15pF <=400v)? I have a nice 100x probe on order which should definitely be safe right?

@Loki
I'm impressed with that array of 6x1W LEDs you're lighting up there. Out of interest, to get a similar luminosity, how much DC power would you have to feed them? Probably much more than 139mW I'm sure. Probably more than 139mW even if you fed them low markspace ratio PWM at high freq, SEC looks like a very interesting circuit for sure. Wish I had the parts in stock, to proto it, can't wait for Dr.S's boards to arrive! :)
@Yucca
I won't say it will not hurt your scope because all I can base it on is my work and so far have not damaged any of my scopes, but I have damaged DVM's. Using less than a 100:1 most likely will not show you a true picture of what is present as it will change the exciter operating point. Be safe and wait for you 100x probe and then you should also see the real form without pulling the operating point.

Well as of today all currently ordered boards are in transient so your should be in route.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 01:14:03 AM
@Stefan

no. I charged so far using 13watts of power from 12.30v to 12.46v. So I believe it will take less than 40watts to fully charge the battery to 12.65v and about 30 to 40 hours max. It is right now charging.

Usually when I do that with my SSG with 6 coils, it takes about 20 hours and 100watts of power to charge it fully to 12.65v.

I also already charged this 100Ah battery once and tested a load to see if it is really a good charge, real power and it is. Now I changed my SEC a little bit more to charge it faster.

This week I will know for sure if it will work better than well. I hope is OU too, cross fingers.

@Dr.Stiffer
Thanks for the tip. I already tested with so many transistor types and the best were MPSA06 and the PN2222 GP. Now with a bigger hit sink it seams to stand well the 20v and 130ma input power. I want to go to 24volts.

I also noticed the ground connection makes a HUGE difference in the amount of power that goes to the battery. I used some extra AV plugs and LEDS to get to the best charging signal. I am also able to run a little motor that serves as a good "measuring rod" concerning the kind of signal the SEC is generating. If it spins faster it also charges the battery faster but not necessarily sends more current to the battery. Right now only 60ma goes to the positive terminal of the battery and it does not even warm up a one ohm resistor which proves it is really small current going in (those are tricks from the Bedini Monopole SSG forum).

What is interesting too is that as I increase the input voltage the speed that it charges the battery is not linear, higher input voltage, much higher charging (kind of like exponential or progressive).

I also tried two SEC together but no luck, they all see each other and interfere substantially the outcome. I thought if one charges, what about 10, would it be 10x faster??? Do you know how to decouple them so that I could use 10 SECs together?

Fausto.
@Fausto
If I could decouple them we would all have stable self runners. No matter how long the delay line if the end is returned to ground or back to the exciter it all dies. I have used lines up to 25 chokes long and the same effect. I have missed something big that is causing me many sleepless nights. The power is there, but can not use it unless the load remains floating.

Even with this current problem the SEC15-30W will make enough Heat to be a workable and usable device.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 30, 2008, 02:04:50 AM
@Dr.S
I usually work with TTL level stuff not used to high frequency high voltage certainly not used to cold electricity or scalar stuff! So a quick question about the SEC boards; is it safe to stick a 10x probe anywhere on the board or do I run the risk of zapping my scope (1Mohm 15pF <=400v)? I have a nice 100x probe on order which should definitely be safe right?

@Loki
I'm impressed with that array of 6x1W LEDs you're lighting up there. Out of interest, to get a similar luminosity, how much DC power would you have to feed them? Probably much more than 139mW I'm sure. Probably more than 139mW even if you fed them low markspace ratio PWM at high freq, SEC looks like a very interesting circuit for sure. Wish I had the parts in stock, to proto it, can't wait for Dr.S's boards to arrive! :)

@Yucca,
The LED show, it is cool, literally. You talked me into it and I'm going to do that and see.  ;D Lets take a comparative snapshot here. What is a fair comparison, 5 diodes in series, seems to me would be a "close" and I use that term lightly, approximation of the AV plug??? Since I don't have a luminosity meter presently this is going to be an ugly and subjective comparative study.

The Series string, call it branch 1, will consist of:

VCC feeding,
1. 1N4148 diode
2. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
3. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
4. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
5. 1N4148 diode
Terminated at GND

At the junction of #1 cathode and #2 anode from above the next Series string, call it branch 2, will consist of the following in parallel with 2 through 5 to GND:
 
6. 1N4148 diode
7. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
8. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
9. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
10. 1N4148 diode
Terminated at GND

Just open the AV plugs at the cathode of the second 1N4148 and tie them to ground. I'll feed this with a DC supply and monitor power input with the same Flukes I always use. 1 reading current and the other voltage. If that description isn't clear I'll post the diagram and results tomorrow. Take a peek at the data sheets for both the 1N4148's and the High Power LED's (Avago Technologies) If I find the need to do some current limiting I will take the liberty of doing so but the diagram will accurately reflect the circuit measured. We'll know within a day or so.  ;D If I were putting this circuit together for a job I'd be planning on more than 139mw that's for sure.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on April 30, 2008, 03:25:56 AM
@Dr.S
I usually work with TTL level stuff not used to high frequency high voltage certainly not used to cold electricity or scalar stuff! So a quick question about the SEC boards; is it safe to stick a 10x probe anywhere on the board or do I run the risk of zapping my scope (1Mohm 15pF <=400v)? I have a nice 100x probe on order which should definitely be safe right?

@Loki
I'm impressed with that array of 6x1W LEDs you're lighting up there. Out of interest, to get a similar luminosity, how much DC power would you have to feed them? Probably much more than 139mW I'm sure. Probably more than 139mW even if you fed them low markspace ratio PWM at high freq, SEC looks like a very interesting circuit for sure. Wish I had the parts in stock, to proto it, can't wait for Dr.S's boards to arrive! :)

@Yucca,
The LED show, it is cool, literally. You talked me into it and I'm going to do that and see.  ;D Lets take a comparative snapshot here. What is a fair comparison, 5 diodes in series, seems to me would be a "close" and I use that term lightly, approximation of the AV plug??? Since I don't have a luminosity meter presently this is going to be an ugly and subjective comparative study.

The Series string, call it branch 1, will consist of:

VCC feeding,
1. 1N4148 diode
2. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
3. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
4. ASMT-MB00-NAE00 1W High Power LED, Blue
5. 1N4148 diode
Terminated at GND

At the junction of #1 cathode and #2 anode from above the next Series string, call it branch 2, will consist of the following in parallel with 2 through 5 to GND:
 
6. 1N4148 diode
7. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
8. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
9. ASMT-MG00-NGJ00 1W High Power LED, Green
10. 1N4148 diode
Terminated at GND

Just open the AV plugs at the cathode of the second 1N4148 and tie them to ground. I'll feed this with a DC supply and monitor power input with the same Flukes I always use. 1 reading current and the other voltage. If that description isn't clear I'll post the diagram and results tomorrow. Take a peek at the data sheets for both the 1N4148's and the High Power LED's (Avago Technologies) If I find the need to do some current limiting I will take the liberty of doing so but the diagram will accurately reflect the circuit measured. We'll know within a day or so.  ;D If I were putting this circuit together for a job I'd be planning on more than 139mw that's for sure.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim

The above circuit does not function like an AV plug. The first string of LED's become blinding bright! The second string barely lights. Pushing the supply any higher will destroy parts which is of course a bad thing. Tough to compare apples and oranges  ::)

A Very subjective performance comparison, visual indication only, shows similar subjective illumination with input of 9.56vdc and 21ma. applied to a series string. No current limiting so if you push this you will kill your LED's. Everybody take a look and see why subjective interpretation is beyond difficult. Never rely on this method. Now I have to wait on the wife to go to bed so I can raid her kitchen for suitable stainless steel items...... ;D  :D :D :D

Best regards and back to SEC,

Jim

EDIT to clarify pictures: Loki

Top picture is the Breadboard SEC exciter running at what I posted previously, I believe 5.78vdc and 24ma from the supply, single leg current measurement.

Second picture is a strait +,Diode,LED,LED, LED,Diode,- series circuit running strait from a DC supply. I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE TRY THIS WITH COMPONENTS THEY WISH TO KEEP!  ;D Don't blame me if you let the smoke out of the parts.  :-*




Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Gustav22 on April 30, 2008, 07:22:33 AM
...
If I could decouple them we would all have stable self runners. No matter how long the delay line if the end is returned to ground or back to the exciter it all dies. I have used lines up to 25 chokes long and the same effect. I have missed something big that is causing me many sleepless nights. The power is there, but can not use it unless the load remains floating.....
A related train of thought::

What is fed back to the input side should be of the exact same quality as the primary signal which was used before. In other words: what is fed back to the input should be straight DC, such as delivered from the primary DC source (the battery).
From this i deduct, that the output signal should first be processed in such a way, that it will become DC, before it can be successfully fed back to the input.

As long as a fed back signal contains oscillations, these will interfere with the rhythm of self oscillation of the working system.

This would mean, that the output should be converted to straight DC, before it can be re-used as input.

How?

Maybe by feeding it into the primary side of a (small) transformer. The output of this transformer should consist of 3 secondaries, that is to say it should consist of 3 phases; same signal on each phase, each phase shifted by 120? vs. the other two phases.
Maybe a toroidal core wound with a primary and with three appropriate output windings (secondaries) might be the right setup.
Then these 3 signals should be rectified and added up. The resulting signal will be straight DC.
I am not sure how to best achieve the rectification step.
However i think, "transformation" of the output signal into 3 phases (equal but phase shifted signals) and then into DC may provide a way to close the sack ... ?h, i mean the loop.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 30, 2008, 09:27:45 AM
@Fausto,
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones...  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 30, 2008, 01:16:48 PM
@Fausto,
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones...  :)
Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 03:20:12 PM
@Fausto,
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones...  :)
Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
@alan
I'm sure we would all be interested in your results, are you running SEC on a proto-board in your exploration of the circuit??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 03:24:33 PM
@All
I have received a number of questions on "How do I know my Neon is Hot enough to test in a calorimeter?"

The short answer is "Just test it" but if you really want a reference and you are starting out with the touch test, here is a way to find out how hot should be. You don't use the AV plug to do this test, it's just to show what can happen when all things are right.

Use your proto-boards for the following simple circuit and see what a hot neon is, may need to adjust the C values a bit and retune each time it changes, but worth your time.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 05:59:49 PM
@Fausto,
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones...  :)

@Stephan

**I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.

It just dawned on me as I read your post again, you do realize you purchased a SEC15-20? This is the filled board with (9) LEDs and a Neon, it is not suggested that you do much with this board as it is so full and you will have to disconnect parts of it to drive anything else. I think you really wanted the SEC15-3??????????
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 06:05:23 PM
@ALL

PLEASE! Before you rush to connect your SEC circuit boards, download the pdf file and read it or at least look over the board well before connecting. The (Red) wire is +V and the (Black) wire is -V or Ground. The board has a reverse polarity protection diode in it, you goof, you burn your board.

Here is a short video on this very important point...........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgdj-gBKaMg
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 06:36:32 PM
@plengo

I watched your last video three times now and still have not figured out where you are connecting the one end of that large parasitic coil (grey duct tape covered unit with the metal bolt). I fully understand the replacement of the tunable base coil with the choke, but where is this coil connected???

Thanks and great work.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 30, 2008, 06:36:40 PM
@Fausto,
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones...  :)
Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
@alan
I'm sure we would all be interested in your results, are you running SEC on a proto-board in your exploration of the circuit??
I'm still observing the thread, now and then giving a suggestion which I think would be helpful. I have nothing replicated.. yet :) I don't have measuring equipment.

I was thinking that if people have tried charging a battery, it is little work to replace it with a cap. Easier said that done though, but worth trying.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 06:53:06 PM
@Fausto,
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones...  :)
Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
@alan
I'm sure we would all be interested in your results, are you running SEC on a proto-board in your exploration of the circuit??
I'm still observing the thread, now and then giving a suggestion which I think would be helpful. I have nothing replicated.. yet :) I don't have measuring equipment.

I was thinking that if people have tried charging a battery, it is little work to replace it with a cap. Easier said that done though, but worth trying.
@alan
Now I understand.

Your statement:
**Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.

Is this also in reference to how I have done it?

Many people over the last number of months have done this, although few have posted on the net, I have, so what is the protocol you would suggest that would be definitive to you?

Be aware that testing can not be active, in other words you can not hang a meter across a cap and watch the charge. Almost all test that have been done were conducted while monitoring input parameters during a timed period. Stopping the SEC and measuring the cap voltage and extrapolating charge from this. So please what is "not very objective" and how would you do it if you had test equipment??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: mudwump on April 30, 2008, 07:29:44 PM
My intentions are to build a full wave diode bridge rectifier on the output of the SEC. The output of this would go to a dual capacitor circuit that puts one capacitor in charge mode and the other in service mode providing power to the SEC. I am still waiting parts, so I am still in design phase. I am not sure at this point, if I will put the capacitors charge/service circuit on a timer, switch manually, or base the switch on voltage. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 07:43:29 PM
My intentions are to build a full wave diode bridge rectifier on the output of the SEC. The output of this would go to a dual capacitor circuit that puts one capacitor in charge mode and the other in service mode providing power to the SEC. I am still waiting parts, so I am still in design phase. I am not sure at this point, if I will put the capacitors charge/service circuit on a timer, switch manually, or base the switch on voltage. Any ideas?
@mudwump
Unless you are thinking of something I can not visualize, how are you connecting this bridge so that it floats? The AV Plug is at a high impedance above ground, so what is the other leg for the bridge?

This has been tried by a number of people, but the minute you complete the circuit back to any common reference SEC is DEAD! I can not say this enough although this is most likely the 10kth time.

Now, I may just not see what you want to do, can you post to us a drawing? by hand is great, then I can see if I am missing something here.

Keep up the work..........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 30, 2008, 08:13:47 PM
@Fausto,
you use about 20 Volts and about 100 mA of input current.
Then, why do you say you are using 13 Watts of input power.
Isnt this just about 2 Watts only ?
How did you hook up your battery to get it charging ?
I also want to use my coming SEC to charge selfmade NiMh batteries.
By the way, does somebody know,
where I can buy the raw materials for NiMh batteries ? I want to build BIG ones...  :)
Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.
@alan
I'm sure we would all be interested in your results, are you running SEC on a proto-board in your exploration of the circuit??
I'm still observing the thread, now and then giving a suggestion which I think would be helpful. I have nothing replicated.. yet :) I don't have measuring equipment.

I was thinking that if people have tried charging a battery, it is little work to replace it with a cap. Easier said that done though, but worth trying.
@alan
Now I understand.

Your statement:
**Really like to see someone trying to charge a big cap instead of a battery using the SEC. Some have claimed OU effects using caps, though not very objective measurements were used.

Is this also in reference to how I have done it?

Many people over the last number of months have done this, although few have posted on the net, I have, so what is the protocol you would suggest that would be definitive to you?

Be aware that testing can not be active, in other words you can not hang a meter across a cap and watch the charge. Almost all test that have been done were conducted while monitoring input parameters during a timed period. Stopping the SEC and measuring the cap voltage and extrapolating charge from this. So please what is "not very objective" and how would you do it if you had test equipment??
Can you please show me to where you have done it?

Not very objective, what I mean is:
1. the caps were charged and shorted out to show big sparks
2. only voltage over the cap was measured

How I would do it:
1. I'd determine the input power. Measuring using a powermonitor in the wallsocket or calculating, if input is DC.
2. I would try to charge the cap., connected where otherwise the battery is placed.
3. If succesfully charged, I'd figure out if the energy in the cap is real by trying different methods, we think we don't know what we are dealing with, so I wouldn't trust the voltage over the cap.
4. one method is making the energy in the cap observable, for instance, by unloading it on an unloadingcircuit where everything can be observed using conventional methods.
5. an other method maybe could be: feeding the SEC with the energy in the charged cap while charging an other cap. First making it possible to feed the sec with the charged cap (for ex. using a chargepump), then finding out how many times the energy can be 'recycled' by using 2 caps, 1 on the input, 1 on the output, exchanging them.

Hope I make sense in my words, I am not always good at narrating  8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on April 30, 2008, 08:17:15 PM
My intentions are to build a full wave diode bridge rectifier on the output of the SEC. The output of this would go to a dual capacitor circuit that puts one capacitor in charge mode and the other in service mode providing power to the SEC. I am still waiting parts, so I am still in design phase. I am not sure at this point, if I will put the capacitors charge/service circuit on a timer, switch manually, or base the switch on voltage. Any ideas?
well, a post above this one, I had posted the same idea :)
I would base the switch on the current from the service capacitor
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: mudwump on April 30, 2008, 08:36:26 PM
I feel like a little kid waiting for Santa Claus only this time its the mailman. I really need to get some experimental time in before I start trying to recommend ideas. This will be so much fun.

My intentions are to build a full wave diode bridge rectifier on the output of the SEC. The output of this would go to a dual capacitor circuit that puts one capacitor in charge mode and the other in service mode providing power to the SEC. I am still waiting parts, so I am still in design phase. I am not sure at this point, if I will put the capacitors charge/service circuit on a timer, switch manually, or base the switch on voltage. Any ideas?
@mudwump
Unless you are thinking of something I can not visualize, how are you connecting this bridge so that it floats? The AV Plug is at a high impedance above ground, so what is the other leg for the bridge?

This has been tried by a number of people, but the minute you complete the circuit back to any common reference SEC is DEAD! I can not say this enough although this is most likely the 10kth time.

Now, I may just not see what you want to do, can you post to us a drawing? by hand is great, then I can see if I am missing something here.

Keep up the work..........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 30, 2008, 08:41:09 PM
@SEC Board Owners
A few people have addressed the voltage across the Neon as measured to ground, what? The AV Plug is floating (download instruction pdf), you can not measure the voltage across the Neon to anywhere except across the Neon and that will not even work...........

The Neons used have a fire voltage of 95V and an average current of 1.9mA. Rest assured that the voltage is at least 95V, but you are not going to hang a meter across it and measure it. When you connect from the AV Plug with a meter to ground or the +V you are not seeing what you think you are.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 30, 2008, 09:22:57 PM
@Stefan,

I said 13watts from the input power supply that feeds the SEC after running for about 8 hours or so. That's the number I see on the computer monitor because I use a PowerPro from Western Radio to measure the amount of power I am using.

Today the battery is above 12.56v and so far I used 44 watts of input power to the SEC. The amount of watts I will get from this exercise from the battery will only be known when I do a load test on the battery also using another computerized device CBAII (also from Western Radio).

So I measure my cost of power from my power supply to achieve an output power from the battery. IF and only IF I got more power OUT from the battery than of what I used from my power supply INTO to the bettary I will have COP > 1. Cross fingers.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on April 30, 2008, 10:28:27 PM
@Dr.Stiffler

Quote
I watched your last video three times now and still have not figured out where you are connecting the one end of that large parasitic coil (grey duct tape covered unit with the metal bolt). I fully understand the replacement of the tunable base coil with the choke, but where is this coil connected???

Thanks and great work.....
Thanks Doc. Yea, you can not figure it out because it is NOT connected to anything. I just put it there close to the board so that it pickup some of that radiant energy in a very decoupled way. It is the signal from the coil that is driving my experiment.

I just connected one end only to the probe. The other end of the probe is also not connected to anything. And just for completness, that is a bifilar coil, 400 turns awg 23 and 26 with a galvanized bolt of 1 1/2" long and 1/4 diameter.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 30, 2008, 11:25:07 PM
@Stefan,

I said 13watts from the input power supply that feeds the SEC after running for about 8 hours or so. That's the number I see on the computer monitor because I use a PowerPro from Western Radio to measure the amount of power I am using.

Hi Fausto,
okay, I see, so it must be Watthours and not Watts.
if you counts Watts x hours you get an energy value, not a Power value.

As you used about 2 Watts all the time, I calculate
2 Watts x 8 hours = 16 Watthours,
maybe it was more pulsed, so it was not all the time 100 mA integrated over all the time.

Quote
Today the battery is above 12.56v and so far I used 44 watts of input power to the SEC. The amount of watts I will get from this exercise from the battery will only be known when I do a load test on the battery also using another computerized device CBAII (also from Western Radio).

Okay, again 44 Watthours..

Quote
So I measure my cost of power from my power supply to achieve an output power from the battery. IF and only IF I got more power OUT from the battery than of what I used from my power supply INTO to the bettary I will have COP > 1. Cross fingers.

Fausto.
Great, I hope you can prove it.
Good luck !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on April 30, 2008, 11:29:42 PM

Thanks Doc. Yea, you can not figure it out because it is NOT connected to anything. I just put it there close to the board so that it pickup some of that radiant energy in a very decoupled way. It is the signal from the coil that is driving my experiment.

I just connected one end only to the probe. The other end of the probe is also not connected to anything. And just for completness, that is a bifilar coil, 400 turns awg 23 and 26 with a galvanized bolt of 1 1/2" long and 1/4 diameter.

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,
how did you connect the bifilar coil to the battery, so that it charges up ?
Where did you connect the ground wire to ?

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on May 01, 2008, 01:39:54 AM
@Doc

Thanks for the newvids
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 01, 2008, 03:34:19 AM
@ the Dr.  ... Have seen some interesting results on my hack of a SEC., some very good results (at least I think they are) ... using 2 digital multimeter thermometers, type K pick-ups, I can drive the temp down on the MPSA06 (around 44-45c) and the temp up on the neon (33-34c)... at the same time the voltage goes up on the input and the current goes down.  Voltage is supply from a bench-top DC supply set at 18 volts ... ( I also use a 18volt rechargeable drill battery, just to make sure I was not getting something extra) .... The current and voltage is taken at the input.  Have not figured out away yet to measure inside without upsetting the balance.   When out of tune neon not lit up, or not at the right frequency and lit up .. LED's lit up ... the current draw goes up and the voltage goes down. I can get the Neon to go very bright but then the temp on the MPSA06 goes through the roof ( past 60c ) and then blows ... the current draw also goes up and the voltage down.

What is kind of interesting is that when I add from 1 LED to 7 LEDs there does not seem to be a difference in draw or voltage.  I am also able to drive half of a florencent light with the guts ripped out of it and using 2 plugs .. one for each side and the middle floating.  This seems to drive the temp down on the MPSA06 to 38c.

Does this sound about right to what goes on? Thanks for any thoughts.



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 01, 2008, 03:54:35 AM
@ the Dr.  ... Have seen some interesting results on my hack of a SEC., some very good results (at least I think they are) ... using 2 digital multimeter thermometers, type K pick-ups, I can drive the temp down on the MPSA06 (around 44-45c) and the temp up on the neon (33-34c)... at the same time the voltage goes up on the input and the current goes down.  Voltage is supply from a bench-top DC supply set at 18 volts ... ( I also use a 18volt rechargeable drill battery, just to make sure I was not getting something extra) .... The current and voltage is taken at the input.  Have not figured out away yet to measure inside without upsetting the balance.   When out of tune neon not lit up, or not at the right frequency and lit up .. LED's lit up ... the current draw goes up and the voltage goes down. I can get the Neon to go very bright but then the temp on the MPSA06 goes through the roof ( past 60c ) and then blows ... the current draw also goes up and the voltage down.

What is kind of interesting is that when I add from 1 LED to 7 LEDs there does not seem to be a difference in draw or voltage.  I am also able to drive half of a florencent light with the guts ripped out of it and using 2 plugs .. one for each side and the middle floating.  This seems to drive the temp down on the MPSA06 to 38c.

Does this sound about right to what goes on? Thanks for any thoughts.




@nickle989
 The short answer is no. I will ask for some more info and give a detailed answer tomorrow when at the lab, I am home on a UMPC and a great little tool, its like texting on a cell phone and not fun for an old man.

Are you using a sec board or a pin board?

The transistor should not get to this high a temp, what is ambient?

You could never get xistor to stay at or only a few degrees above ambient?

Will get back tomorrow.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 01, 2008, 05:05:40 AM
Quote
@nickle989
 The short answer is no. I will ask for some more info and give a detailed answer tomorrow when at the lab, I am home on a UMPC and a great little tool, its like texting on a cell phone and not fun for an old man.

Are you using a sec board or a pin board?

The transistor should not get to this high a temp, what is ambient?

Pin board .. the ambient temp is 17c. Not sure what the humidity is but it would be a bit higher as it is in the basement.

 :(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on May 01, 2008, 05:39:27 AM
@hartiberlin

Quote
Hi Fausto,
how did you connect the bifilar coil to the battery, so that it charges up ?
Where did you connect the ground wire to ?

NO the coil is not connected to anything at all except the scope's probe. It is just sitting there close to the SEC AV plugs board so that I can capture some of the wave form of the signal without interfering too much with the SEC functioning.

It works very well for that and thats how I could analyze the wave of the signal and come up with the best charging signal so far.

The battery is connected right after the AV plugs, just make sure the polarity is correct otherwise you will have some diodes burned up.

Battery is still charging. I will probably run about 20 or more of this  charge and load test to see the ration Input/Output and calculate a good avarage COP value (I have done about 200 of those cycles for my Bedini SSG, sometimes I get COP > 1 and most of the time I don't).

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on May 01, 2008, 10:12:29 AM
@Loki
With your LEDs, one chain of three didn't light because in parrallel LEDs need to be closely matched if your not running series resistors. You could try all six in series without your signal diodes, they should all light then. It's still very difficult to get a good eyeball on just how bright each test is though. One thing's for sure these SECs would make very efficient torches or bike lights!

@Plengo
Your battery COP experiment is great, I hope it's >1.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 01, 2008, 11:54:18 AM
@Loki
With your LEDs, one chain of three didn't light because in parrallel LEDs need to be closely matched if your not running series resistors. You could try all six in series without your signal diodes, they should all light then. It's still very difficult to get a good eyeball on just how bright each test is though. One thing's for sure these SECs would make very efficient torches or bike lights!

@Plengo
Your battery COP experiment is great, I hope it's >1.


Nice... ???..But I'm working on and interested in the heat.  ;) Enough of the parlor tricks and sidetracking. (It is fun though)  :D  By the way Yucca, are you building and testing this? How about you tell me the answers to some of the questions.......LOL  ;D Replacing interior lighting in buildings that will run on a few watts and only installing half the copper is huge not a bike light although I'm sure someone will have a dollar store version out there. Probably the same ones making the LED's. I'm chasing after very warm greenhouses and no grid connections not to mention I showed a picture of one of my Neon's at a temperature of 131F, what is the temperature of your hot water where you live? I don't know if this is part of the answers I seek yet. But we're about to find out.  :-\  Actually, I'm about to attempt my first go at finding out for myself!  ;D

I know the reasons that the LED's did what they did but the point is this, AV plugs and Dr. Stiffler's SEC's are unique and worth studying on their own. Comparative studies, well, start building and good luck with that. LOL Let me know how that works out for you. I solved the circuit before I energized it for goodness sake. Apples and Oranges my friend.  ;D Also a waste of my time! No more! You do some!   :D


Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 01, 2008, 03:31:53 PM
@ the Dr.  ... Have seen some interesting results on my hack of a SEC., some very good results (at least I think they are) ... using 2 digital multimeter thermometers, type K pick-ups, I can drive the temp down on the MPSA06 (around 44-45c) and the temp up on the neon (33-34c)... at the same time the voltage goes up on the input and the current goes down.  Voltage is supply from a bench-top DC supply set at 18 volts ... ( I also use a 18volt rechargeable drill battery, just to make sure I was not getting something extra) .... The current and voltage is taken at the input.  Have not figured out away yet to measure inside without upsetting the balance.   When out of tune neon not lit up, or not at the right frequency and lit up .. LED's lit up ... the current draw goes up and the voltage goes down. I can get the Neon to go very bright but then the temp on the MPSA06 goes through the roof ( past 60c ) and then blows ... the current draw also goes up and the voltage down.

What is kind of interesting is that when I add from 1 LED to 7 LEDs there does not seem to be a difference in draw or voltage.  I am also able to drive half of a florencent light with the guts ripped out of it and using 2 plugs .. one for each side and the middle floating.  This seems to drive the temp down on the MPSA06 to 38c.

Does this sound about right to what goes on? Thanks for any thoughts.





@nickle989

***
... Have seen some interesting results on my hack of a SEC., some very good results (at least I think they are) ... using 2 digital multimeter thermometers, type K pick-ups
***
One thing is I would not trust the K probes and the digital meters. If you have a glass thermometer place a cardboard tube or plastic (not metal) around the transistor. Place the thermometer in the tube with the transistor and wrap it with a cotton cloth a couple of times,looks bad but will work. Need to confirm that this is indeed the correct temp and not error from the probes and meters.

***
I can drive the temp down on the MPSA06 (around 44-45c) and the temp up on the neon (33-34c)...
***
This is crazy and I would have to say the same old thing I always say, if this is the case 'It isn't tuned properly'. When working properly the Neon should always be at a greater temperature than the transistor. The two hottest things are the Neon and the 22uH choke.

If you are using different coils and chokes then its a new ball game and I am shooting in the dark. Far to many variables and the chokes and base coil are critical to guess on all the different variations one can use. For example the wire size used for the base tuning coil, the slug permeability, long or layer wrap, it all counts in the end.

What about the ptoto board is it one with an Al backing plate? What is the capacity from a single pad to the plate? What is the capacity of the power rail strips to the plate? Do they compare to what I have posted?

I must assume you are using some heat sink on the transistor, what type? Is it large? Could upset tuning.

***
What is kind of interesting is that when I add from 1 LED to 7 LEDs there does not seem to be a difference in draw or voltage.  I am also able to drive half of a florencent light with the guts ripped out of it and using 2 plugs .. one for each side and the middle floating.  This seems to drive the temp down on the MPSA06 to 38c.
***
Most of this sounds right. People have powered up to 175 or more LEDs and only seen small input change.

I can't do much more on this. You are sadly repeating what everyone else does when first starting out. Unless its a duplication it is not a replication, if that makes any sense.

***
MPSA06 goes through the roof ( past 60c ) and then blows
***
Been there and done that. Now purchase in 1K lots. All fun aside, why does it go into runaway? Reason is the energy (input) is not being used in the collector circuit as it should so the transistor is dissipating the energy. When in the proper tuning that transistor should only be from ambient (with a small Cu heat sink) to at most +4C above ambient.

The circuit is voltage sensitive, in other words you tune at 12 volts and go to 15 and it is out of tune. You might be able to adjust the supply voltage up and down and retune each time. If you hit a spot where you have good neon and the transistor seems to be in a good temp range then that proves the tuning is off at the extreme temps you are getting.

Well with an ambient of 17C and a measured 45-60C on the transistor it all the circuit.

Don't know if this helps or hurts, but just to may things to consider unless I saw a picture of your setup, then maybe I could spot some things.

Good Luck.......
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 01, 2008, 05:25:57 PM
@ALL

How to make a Heat Sink for an MPSA06

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHF_NtyTId0
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 01, 2008, 08:33:04 PM
@All

A video on the SEC15-20 and the difference from the SEC15-3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJVsy6pGmMI
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 01, 2008, 11:58:15 PM
@All

A video on the SEC15-20 and the difference from the SEC15-3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJVsy6pGmMI

Cool!  8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 02, 2008, 12:53:33 PM
Whoah!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 02, 2008, 01:17:44 PM
 ;D Coffee Can and Cooler Calorimetry? I'm just going to test it. Worst case is K-mart and a stainless cannister. The Coffee can "doesn't seem" to mess with the SEC sitting above it but we'll find out. Remember conductive mass, I do.  ;D We'll see! The whole thing is foam except for the chamber inside which is a big plastic animal cracker jug and weighs next to nothing. Not much in the way of mass density at all. Like I said we'll see how well it works.  :-\

Loki 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 02, 2008, 05:54:22 PM
My temperature sensors, pre-built, will arrive early next week and I will get the DAQ and dedicated PC going, then test with calibration runs to begin with. See what kind of stability a foam block has. See how the SEC performs in close proximity to a black can holding 500ml of distilled water. It didn't seem to mess with it on my bench but we'll see...... 8)   

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 02, 2008, 07:58:53 PM
@SEC Board Owners
Messing around on the bench today and tried some different things with a couple of 15-3's, might like to see the results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWEubiyXfLc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on May 02, 2008, 08:44:12 PM
@Loki

What kind of temp sensors are you using?  Thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on May 03, 2008, 02:07:16 AM
Fascinating experiment in 10.7 btw   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on May 03, 2008, 02:27:02 AM
Loki WHOA is right  sweet @ DR nice 10.7  I feel like a little kid waiting for my secret decoder ring {thanks mr F]  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 03, 2008, 03:20:40 AM
@Loki

What kind of temp sensors are you using?  Thanks


Feynman,
The temp sensors are kits from Rainbow and it will be the first time I try them. They are advertised to be ready to convert your DMM into a wide range thermometer with 0.1F resolution. I'm going to test them with the 4 channel DAQ in the last pictures. If you are considering even trying them let me check them out before you send off your money too.  ;D No point in two of us buying junk if that is what they turn out to be. I will check them for correct functionality, linearity, tolerance to RFI and EMI, and etc. I will let you know if you wish? If not just let me know and I'll give up the part number.  ;D or a link. Cool!

Loki WHOA is right  sweet @ DR nice 10.7  I feel like a little kid waiting for my secret decoder ring {thanks mr F]  Chet

ramset,
I'm treading a little bit of new ground with this calorimetry but this set-up has reduced the mass from that first concept by greater than a factor of 10 easily. It looks kind of big but it is mostly all blue foam. We'll see and if it doesn't work I'll build another until I'm able to make accurate measurements. Then I have one for the lab and other work too. Plus I am going to the store tomorrow, after Turkey hunting of course ::) and getting a stainless canister too.

@SEC Board Owners
Messing around on the bench today and tried some different things with a couple of 15-3's, might like to see the results.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWEubiyXfLc

Dr. Stiffler,
Excellent demonstration. Looking forward to the details for optimum heat on the SEC 15-3. I'm making progress! 111F on the neon, 90F on the 22uH, ambient on the transistor and 10uH.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 03, 2008, 03:29:09 AM
Loki WHOA is right  sweet @ DR nice 10.7  I feel like a little kid waiting for my secret decoder ring {thanks mr F]  Chet
@ramset
Are you in the US? if so check the tracking number, if you are non-us blame customs.

Drop me an email to drstiffler if you think it is lost....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 03, 2008, 03:32:07 AM
@loki
Should be the next video, had a small problem with blackout on 121.5.  :'(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 03, 2008, 04:59:16 PM
So if you are going to consider a SEC Exciter more than a novelty you need to get some heat from it to test for excess. Of course not all of you will even attempt this, but I know there are many that are and wondering why such a small production from their board. The SEC15-3 as supplied will produce in the range of 0.89 -> 1.15~ this places you so close to the error margin you need a bit better.

I am going to try and get a number of videos up today on how to do the minor mod that makes a major difference and cover how I built the small calorimeter I have been using.

The first video is here;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA3XKg7OzbY
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on May 03, 2008, 05:37:55 PM
OK, just tested my first calaromiter. My idea is to make two identical units and run them side by side at the same time, one with a resistive heater, one with a SEC.

The calarometer is made from easily obtained materials:

An aluminium drink can with the bottom roughed up by emery serves as the vessel. The can is then wrapped in a 25cm tube of bubblerap that's 10 sheets thick on the wall. Underneath the can is placed 4x470ohm 1/4watt resistors for a 1watt heater. A thermometer is placed in the can, also used as a stirer prior to reading. The contraption is weighed and then filled with water and weighed again to calculate water mass. The tops and bottoms of the bubblewrap tube are squeezed shut like cuffs using wire twists. The power is applied and the test begins, results follow:

========================
CALIROMETER TEST RESULT:
========================

water specific heat capacity:
4.184 J/g?C

Ambient temp.:
19?C

Water mass:
279 grams

heater power:
85mA * 9.94V =
0.845 Watt

heating time:
3h35m == 12900s


start temp.:
15.5?C

finish temp.:
22.0?C

delta temp.:
6.5?C +/- .5?C

input energy:
12900 * .845 =
10900 Joules

water heat rise:
6.5 * 279 * 4.184 =
7588 Joules

Efficiency as a water heater:
0.696
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 03, 2008, 05:52:32 PM
@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 03, 2008, 07:18:14 PM
@ALL
Ok..

The second part to modifying SEC for excess Heat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHhsHjavwtU

Third and last part coming..............................

Followed by how I built my calorimeter.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 03, 2008, 09:45:01 PM
@All
Mod of SEC15-3 for excess heat. The calorimeter video coming Sunday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lwp6OH_1sg
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 03, 2008, 10:19:15 PM
@Dr. Stiffler
Excellent! I'm heating the iron as I type.  ;D
Now we're cooking.

 8) 8) 8)

LOL This is fun! LOL You kill me and apparently I kill you! I'm glad to have provided laughter for once. LOL  ;D ;)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 01:55:01 AM
@Dr. Stiffler
  ;D
Now we're cooking.

 8) 8) 8)

LOL  ;D ;)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 02:32:13 AM
SEC 15-3 Modified with additional 22uH choke, 47pF capacitor, and parasitic back plate tied as indicated in the last video. 10 min stable operation tuned for maximum (subjective) neon luminosity. Ambient Temperature = 70F
20.26 VDC Input @ 29ma
Neon Temperature = 118F
Transistor Temperature =79F
1st 22uH choke Temperature =85.5F
2nd 22uH choke Temperature =88F
10uH choke Temperature = 82F

47pF capacitor Temperature = 81.5F

Big Thunder coming, have to go for now.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 04:03:04 AM
@All,
Pay attention to the videos...... ;D If your after heat anyways! Look....... ;D

Best

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 04:13:13 AM
Now THAT, is some kinda plasma! Time to cook.  ;D ;D ;D

Best

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 01:37:35 PM
@All,
I ran the SEC-15-3, with the modifications for heat, for a couple of hours last night. It sustained this operational set point or "tuning" and continued to maintain the temperature of the neon at 121F (49.44C). 20.XXX VDC(voltage climbs and falls approximately 0.6 VDC as the circuit runs) 29ma input current (rock solid for the duration of the test). As Dr. Stiffler pointed out the device is very stable in this configuration with no noticeable detuning by picking it up or approaching it with a hand. Further note that the 22uH chokes are almost the same temperature and now it is becoming difficult to isolate individual components for relative temperature measurements because everything that is even close to the Neon is getting very warm indeed. The calorimetry runs will be very interesting I suspect. So the hard work is in progress.  ;) The next challenge for me will be stable operation in the calorimeter, I do believe, and accurate data acquisition.  ;D
 
CAUTION IF YOU ARE REPRODUCING THIS!
This will burn your finger or other body parts that come into contact with that Neon!

@Dr. Stiffler,
I take it you have designed this to operate at optimum heat output without the need to take into account the light radiating from the neon for COP determination? Is the energy radiating as light a significant percentage of the total power budget? Otherwise the increase in just the light is very significant from subjective observation. The entire interior volume of the Neon is plasma and bright Red-Orange is a very accurate description. Nice work! I can't wait for my temp sensors now!  ;D

See the pictures.

Best

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on May 04, 2008, 02:56:59 PM
@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??

Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.

Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on May 04, 2008, 03:04:41 PM
@Loki,

WOW, nice cooked finger! Hard to believe 1/2watt input power did that, I've been messing with 1Watt resistive heaters and they just hurt a little but no physical damage like that.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 04, 2008, 03:31:29 PM
@Loki

You ask;
@Dr. Stiffler,
I take it you have designed this to operate at optimum heat output without the need to take into account the light radiating from the neon for COP determination? Is the energy radiating as light a significant percentage of the total power budget? Otherwise the increase in just the light is very significant from subjective observation. The entire interior volume of the Neon is plasma and bright Red-Orange is a very accurate description. Nice work! I can't wait for my temp sensors now!  Grin

I do not consider the light from the Neon, but I do consider 'whole' circuit dissipation, not just the Neon. I do not want another can of worms like the issue with the LED's so I ignore the light. If you can get 1.2 -> 1.5 then isn't the light a bonus??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 03:38:00 PM
@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??

Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.

Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?

@Yucca,
Dr. Stiffler will correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is my understanding that the surface area of the conductive plate is the key parameter not its thickness, and maintaining the same parasitic capacitance, 7.5pF from each node of the circuit relative to the plate and 3.75pF relative to each other, i.e. two identical parasitic capacitances in series equals half the individual value. I'm going to test a copper clad board cut to size also. Just to prove it to myself, but keep in mind Dr. Stiffler has very practical and technical reasons for the suggested materials. How will you attach the wire from the PCB to the parasitic plate if it's Al. foil? I don't think soldering will work but I haven't tried that. Soldering to aluminum? Not that I am aware of.

But a google search turns up http://www.tinmantech.com/html/faq__soldering_aluminum_foil.php

Tin flashing works well. I will let you know how the copper turns out but I'm not spending the money on special materials for the aluminum so just my two cents.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 04, 2008, 03:41:06 PM
@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??

Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.

Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?
@Yucca
Yes, any fairly good conductor will work. I used tin because it is cheaper than copper and you an still solder to it for a good connection. With the Al a strip of copper tape over the top allows you to solder and the heat of the soldering will melt the glue backing so you have a conductor. Another way would be the Al tape on cardboard or thick construction paper, then a small strip over the wire should make for a fair connection.

**Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.
I assume you know, but you can not tamper with the unit once you calibrate. I had a fellow calibrate then open the unit and connect the SEC Boards, close the unit and test, guess what? Results were poor and inaccurate. Seal, calibrate, run (no messing in between). Takes hours, you need to let cool to equilibrium after calibration before running test. Keep ambient as close as possible to the same. The SEC will spike when first in operation, then as components heat the production will drop as components change value and the transistor dynamics shift. If possible you need to monitor temp like in minute increments or you can turn it on and come back hours later and say, hey this did not work. That first 50% of run time will give the best results.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 03:44:06 PM
@Loki

You ask;
@Dr. Stiffler,
I take it you have designed this to operate at optimum heat output without the need to take into account the light radiating from the neon for COP determination? Is the energy radiating as light a significant percentage of the total power budget? Otherwise the increase in just the light is very significant from subjective observation. The entire interior volume of the Neon is plasma and bright Red-Orange is a very accurate description. Nice work! I can't wait for my temp sensors now!  Grin

I do not consider the light from the Neon, but I do consider 'whole' circuit dissipation, not just the Neon. I do not want another can of worms like the issue with the LED's so I ignore the light. If you can get 1.2 -> 1.5 then isn't the light a bonus??


@Dr. Stiffler,
Yes I agree, Light output Ignored! Thank you sir and yes it will be considered a bonus. No sidetracking from the heat work!  8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 04, 2008, 03:59:54 PM
@Yucca
Excellent work, but what I might ask is do you feel that this method does not require calibration? In other words I might be inclined to have a calibration resistance in each side and power both for a cal period to be sure there is no offset from the two sides, then would use that offset in the final calculation??

Of course, I hadn't thought about that yet. Thanks for the heads up.

Q)Would aluminium foil backed cardboard work for the SEC heat mod or should I scrounge some thicker metal?

@Yucca,
Dr. Stiffler will correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is my understanding that the surface area of the conductive plate is the key parameter not its thickness, and maintaining the same parasitic capacitance, 7.5pF from each node of the circuit relative to the plate and 3.75pF relative to each other, i.e. two identical parasitic capacitances in series equals half the individual value. I'm going to test a copper clad board cut to size also. Just to prove it to myself, but keep in mind Dr. Stiffler has very practical and technical reasons for the suggested materials. How will you attach the wire from the PCB to the parasitic plate if it's Al. foil? I don't think soldering will work but I haven't tried that. Soldering to aluminum? Not that I am aware of.

But a google search turns up http://www.tinmantech.com/html/faq__soldering_aluminum_foil.php

Tin flashing works well. I will let you know how the copper turns out but I'm not spending the money on special materials for the aluminum so just my two cents.

Best regards,

Jim

@Loki & Yucca
**Dr. Stiffler will correct me if I'm wrong here, but it is my understanding that the surface area of the conductive plate is the key parameter not its thickness,

Correct, but area over the entire bottom of the board, this is not a localized phenomenon, its not the atypical feed back path. Every one must refer back to the image I posted where I showed a capacity of ~= amount to every part of the surface from the Al backing plate of the proto-boards. This (I call it) parasitic capacity is far more complex than simple feedback to sustain gain. Someone really looking into a SEC board would do well to explore what affect different size plates will have (smaller). One will see in a short time this is not what most feel it is at first blush.

**capacitance, 7.5pF from each node of the circuit relative to the plate and 3.75pF relative to each other
Don't get hung up on these values! They were references to what was going on in the pin boards. Maybe I can paraphrase it; 'Water rolls down hill, but something in front and it will try and find a path to continue, build a dam and you hold it back until it overflows. These capacity values are not written in stone and vary with the construction of the circuit (the obstruction to the water) and the frequencies of the exciter (bandwidth) or (the amount of water filling the dam).

At this point there are only rough formula for how to select the correct (assumed correct) values. As all should know this board was just not thrown together, a bit of thought had to go into it to allow the Exciter to operate.

**I'm going to test a copper clad board cut to size also.
I will never open another of your attachments, I am not 100% sure you are reading my computer files ;D

Single clad will work great for the plate and use the cheaper thinner material. Double clad is interesting when you explore the connection of the side opposed to the board. Connecting this plate in different location has interesting result. Another time maybe..............

On to the calorimetry video..............
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on May 04, 2008, 04:23:56 PM
OK thanks Loki, I suppose Al.Foil will make a good cap then. I'll just use a small nut, bolt and washer to connect the wire to the foileld card.

Edit: I'll make the foiled card to the exact size of your video Dr.S. I'll probably end up using thin plastic, like on a margarine tub.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 05:48:14 PM
OK thanks Loki, I suppose Al.Foil will make a good cap then. I'll just use a small nut, bolt and washer to connect the wire to the foileld card.

Edit: I'll make the foiled card to the exact size of your video Dr.S. I'll probably end up using thin plastic, like on a margarine tub.

@Yucca,
Doc has told us not to use metal screws and standoffs but since it is going to be part of the plate you might be alright.  :-\ Better though, If you have it, or get some, use the copper tape, a small piece, stuck right over your aluminum foil and then solder your wire right to that. It works just fine and I forgot all about that little trick.  ;) Thanks Doc.

@Dr. Stiffler,
Yes I figured that the C value would change depending on the circuit but I just wanted to emphasize the point of parasitic capacitance. No, I don't consider this to be a conventional feedback network in any traditional EE sense at all. I will enjoy exploring this surface but later, after the heat unless you have more which I'm sure you will. Actually I already started some. The senior EE's say it is exactly that. I tell them since they know so much to solve the circuit then. I still haven't seen any models of the AV plug from them either. Not that I can model it.  ;D Yet.  ;D I haven't had a takers to date.  :D

**I'm going to test a copper clad board cut to size also.
**I will never open another of your attachments, I am not 100% sure you are reading my computer files  ;D

I would not and Did not.  ;D LOL

Single and double clad copper I have including single a double sided tin shielding. Later! Much Later! There is much to do, and get right, already.

Best regards,

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 04, 2008, 09:47:08 PM
@All
Well it will be Monday before I have the video up on YT on my calorimeter, the damn thing ended up being 180Mbytes so I'm going to have to re-edit and cut it in half and make two parts.

Anyway it is done and will get up there, but its Sunday and time to hop on the riding lawn mower at home and cut some grass.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 04, 2008, 10:14:39 PM
The stainless steel vessel and $2.00 yardsale vase. Flowers in it! Huh? In any case the calorimeter is coming together. More soon.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 05, 2008, 05:07:18 AM
Well finally after a bunch of blown transistors and I have finally come up with results that burn the fingers without blown-up my transistor. 

First pic is the waveform.The probe is after the variable choke and the ground is hooked to the negative.  This form seems to give me the greatest results so far.

Second is the of the Voltage and Transistor Temp ...
15.3 Volts 0.04 Amps
31 C / 89 F

Third is of 22uH Choke
74F

Fourth is of the Neon
145F

At the last is the Board Layout - I have seperated the power input off the board.  The large pin board that I was using seemed to have to much capicitance and I was getting termal runaway on the transistor when the neon was at its brightest.  At least this is my take on it.  I am sure the Dr, has a better explanation then what I can offer up at this time.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 05, 2008, 12:37:54 PM
Well finally after a bunch of blown transistors and I have finally come up with results that burn the fingers without blown-up my transistor. 

First pic is the waveform.The probe is after the variable choke and the ground is hooked to the negative.  This form seems to give me the greatest results so far.

Second is the of the Voltage and Transistor Temp ...
15.3 Volts 0.04 Amps
31 C / 89 F

Third is of 22uH Choke
74F

Fourth is of the Neon
145F

At the last is the Board Layout - I have seperated the power input off the board.  The large pin board that I was using seemed to have to much capicitance and I was getting termal runaway on the transistor when the neon was at its brightest.  At least this is my take on it.  I am sure the Dr, has a better explanation then what I can offer up at this time.




@nickle989
You didn't tell any fibs about beating on it until you understand.  ;D  I will offer a little advice here and please don't take it wrong but if your scope is in the BASE tank circuit, i.e. attempting to measure the waveforms in the tank, then what is really going on, I suspect, is that the monster tunes up to some set point that must, because the scope is connected there, include the scopes input Z. When you have this running what happens if you disconnect the scope from the base circuit? It will prove beyond difficult to determine what is happening. IMHP you need to get away from the desire to directly measure this oscillator. It is very difficult to do properly even with the finest of test gear. Take the scope out of there and just wind a "sniffer" coil to connect to the scope probe. You can explore with that somewhat but even there the results are not what we would think.  :'(  It's not going to be that easy.

I am not trying to discourage you any way at all.  ;D I am trying to offer a little guidance from the master of rebellion, i.e. ME, and say that measurements in this device, as with any other circuit and especially high Z circuits, are very effectively placing the testing gear into the circuit and becoming part of the overall circuit and it's operation. So what we wind up doing is fooling ourselves into thinking we are measuring something but in reality the results are very skewed and not what we think.  :-[ I have done this over the years, several times! 

Concentrate on building the circuit as close to the posted diagram as you possibly can. I have caught my transistors, and blown them up too, heading for or actually going into thermal runaway, if they make it to thermal runaway you will know because it's going to fry before you can do anything about it, because I have my tuning way off, or some other factor. That of course is a catch-22. Heat the transistor up and the hfe goes up giving greater gain which of course causes the power the transistor is using to increase thus continuing the process, in a very very short time frame, until we have burned plastic cases instead of transistors.  ;D Been there and Done that 2!

PM me and we'll take some of this offline, if your interested,  to avoid sidetracking the main flow of this thread. I know I'm guilty of the same. What do you want from rebels!  ;D ;D ;D

Best regards and keep at it,

Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 05, 2008, 01:49:13 PM
Well finally after a bunch of blown transistors and I have finally come up with results that burn the fingers without blown-up my transistor. 

First pic is the waveform.The probe is after the variable choke and the ground is hooked to the negative.  This form seems to give me the greatest results so far.

Second is the of the Voltage and Transistor Temp ...
15.3 Volts 0.04 Amps
31 C / 89 F

Third is of 22uH Choke
74F

Fourth is of the Neon
145F

At the last is the Board Layout - I have seperated the power input off the board.  The large pin board that I was using seemed to have to much capicitance and I was getting termal runaway on the transistor when the neon was at its brightest.  At least this is my take on it.  I am sure the Dr, has a better explanation then what I can offer up at this time.



@nickle989
You might ask yourself the question on why is the transistor going into a super heat mode causing it to destroy itself. You have a one meg off the collector to the base. Without th 22uH connected to the collector, the transistor may pull 1 to 3 mills. So you should ask, what is the added source of drive that forces it to this point. When tuned that energy appears in the load?

You did not state the ambient temp, I like to know the differential.

Smart move on getting the power feed and decoupling off the board.

Place a one ohm in series with the ground leg and then scope that, you will see how effective your decoupling really is and the peak currents, could be an amp or more.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 05, 2008, 07:40:22 PM
@All

Part#1 on how I built my calorimeter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBrgPi4_Fqk
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 05, 2008, 08:52:50 PM
@All

Part#1 on how I built my calorimeter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBrgPi4_Fqk

@Dr. Stiffler

  I have been thinking about the theory behind excessive heat observation on neon gas excitation at special frequencies, at given gas volume and pressure. And makes to build a bigger neon lamp and build bigger  SEC exciter. 

   Can you comment on the nature of Neon gas excitation?
   Do you think it is ball lightning happenning in Neon lamp?
   A bigger neon lamp can be used for steam production? And house heating?

   Best Regards.
   Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 05, 2008, 08:54:33 PM
@All

Part#2 of my DIY calorimeter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsChd3svkho
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 05, 2008, 08:58:21 PM
@All

Part#1 on how I built my calorimeter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBrgPi4_Fqk

@Dr. Stiffler

  I have been thinking about the theory behind excessive heat observation on neon gas excitation at special frequencies, at given gas volume and pressure. And makes to build a bigger neon lamp and build bigger  SEC exciter. 

   Can you comment on the nature of Neon gas excitation?
   Do you think it is ball lightning happenning in Neon lamp?
   A bigger neon lamp can be used for steam production? And house heating?

   Best Regards.
   Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey

 
@samedsoft

I had hoped my paper would be published by now, but as always when you want something there is something that gets in the way. I am involved in some edits now to make everyone happy, seems if to left field a theory, no one would read it. So we are trying to mainstream it and yet not ignore the truth.

No I will not comment other than what you find now. Yet don't discard your ideas.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 05, 2008, 09:00:14 PM
Well finally after a bunch of blown transistors and I have finally come up with results that burn the fingers without blown-up my transistor. 

First pic is the waveform.The probe is after the variable choke and the ground is hooked to the negative.  This form seems to give me the greatest results so far.

Second is the of the Voltage and Transistor Temp ...
15.3 Volts 0.04 Amps
31 C / 89 F

Third is of 22uH Choke
74F

Fourth is of the Neon
145F

At the last is the Board Layout - I have seperated the power input off the board.  The large pin board that I was using seemed to have to much capicitance and I was getting termal runaway on the transistor when the neon was at its brightest.  At least this is my take on it.  I am sure the Dr, has a better explanation then what I can offer up at this time.



@nickle989

Could you please take a close up of your base coil for me, damn I want to see that thing...........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 05, 2008, 09:03:17 PM
The stainless steel vessel and $2.00 yardsale vase. Flowers in it! Huh? In any case the calorimeter is coming together. More soon.

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki67671
Hey, with that big glass cooker you showed some time ago and the current graduated item, is it 'White Lightning' you are cooking up in that basement of yours?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 05, 2008, 10:03:06 PM
The stainless steel vessel and $2.00 yardsale vase. Flowers in it! Huh? In any case the calorimeter is coming together. More soon.

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki67671
Hey, with that big glass cooker you showed some time ago and the current graduated item, is it 'White Lightning' you are cooking up in that basement of yours?

Doc,
You know good and well I use copper.  ;D

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 05, 2008, 10:13:39 PM
The stainless steel vessel and $2.00 yardsale vase. Flowers in it! Huh? In any case the calorimeter is coming together. More soon.

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki67671
Hey, with that big glass cooker you showed some time ago and the current graduated item, is it 'White Lightning' you are cooking up in that basement of yours?
@Loki67671
Well glad to hear it, you know they say its all in the taste and the copper rules.

Doc,
You know good and well I use copper.  ;D


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 05, 2008, 11:38:38 PM
@All

Part#2 of my DIY calorimeter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsChd3svkho

Yes sir! Sensors arrive tomorrow. It will work! No whiskey required.  ;D

Best
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Feynman on May 06, 2008, 12:16:08 AM
Hello,

I just want to say I was able to replicate the electrolysis experiment.  Gas evolved from only one electrode.

Cheers,
Feynman
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 06, 2008, 01:42:27 AM
@the Dr. .. here is a closeup of the coil setup ... 26AWG , the ambient temp is around 24c

Top Coil - 2.2 uH - 12uH

Bottom Coil - 7.3uH - 26uH - double rap

I am currently using the top coil.

The bottom photo is of coils that I was messing around ... the slug is from a computer power supply.  Unfortunatly it becomes saturated to quickly for the high frequencies being used, which would make sense as a computer power supply does not need high freq's but more power at lower freq's.  The coil on the right is where the slug came from.

The coil slug that I am using comes from a old pioneer audio amp from a local repair shop.  I also was using a tunable coil in place of 22uH at one point, from an old pager.  This was on the large board.  I will try it again as it maybe able to tune it in a bit more ... or it might just not.

It seems to me that the plate is charging.  At different times when you touch it the light will be brighter but most of the time I find it get dimmer.  Observation leads me to think the rush of surrounding charging ION's is leading this power, there is something else going on here that I can't quite put my finger on yet.  I am hoping that a friend of mine will lend me his spectrum analyzer from work.  No sense wasting energy or draining it to ground when one can put it to good use.  The NEON gas will certainly be excited via frequency causing friction.  I will be now testing some other gases to see what other observations can be seen.

I have seen some very interesting results while trying to get to this stage.  How long have you been at the SEC development? , meaning no offense.  There are some findings that I have seen that made me go this can't be right! some way so cool.

@Loki  - there are some things that I would like to go through ... I would like to keep it in the thread as long as Dr. Stiffler is alright with it .. these things may go off half cocked .. lol or maybe we can a new thread. 

The scope shot is there to get me to the stage.  I can remove the scope from the circuit and it does not cause the circuit to fail.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 06, 2008, 01:53:56 AM
@All
Just slightly off subject, but Doc brought it up  ;D I have been a dedicated winemaker, beer brewer, and motor fuel maker  ;D for years!
I've been known to run internal combustion engines from a still and stand a wind turbine up downtown. Yep! In any case.

The sensors will show up tomorrow, the DAQ is RS485 so I can place it anywhere I want and monitor / control it and others from my desk. Windmill software is free. Have to check and see if Open Office Spreadsheets supports DDE conversations. The PC is loading right next to me. I'm going to include over temperature shut-down and safety monitoring just in case it turns into long runs or troubles.  8) Here we go.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 07, 2008, 02:37:33 AM
@All

Anyone out there that has a thermal image camera? If so do you have a SEC Exciter PCB? If you have the equipment and no PCB could I send you one to have a couple of tests performed???

Thanks...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 07, 2008, 02:53:35 AM
@All,
Very soon we are going to just measure it. Doc I'll check with the local firefighters and see if we can see. I'll let you know. Here are two of the temp sensors, 1 more to go,  and the DAQ. Getting ready to low level test these guys and write some scripts for control and DDE. More to follow soon.

What a quiet crowd of silence you are!  ;D

Later  8)

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 07, 2008, 02:58:02 AM
We'll see if the stock configuration of these needs modified, decoupling, shielding, I'll bet they do.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 10, 2008, 08:20:31 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
That was rather interesting, now you see it, now you don't!  ;D

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on May 10, 2008, 08:44:38 PM
@All

Anyone out there that has a thermal image camera? If so do you have a SEC Exciter PCB? If you have the equipment and no PCB could I send you one to have a couple of tests performed???

Thanks...

The roofing firm my father works at "hes there head estimator/project manager" Not a shingle pirate.  Has a thermal imaging camera that i could use to take pics. I do their computer work and initially had to show their foreman that brings the camera on site to check for leaks, insulation gaps and heat escape ect how to get the pics on the computer . Plus there real nice folks. So if this meets the criteria please tell me, id be glad to get the exact model no or whatever you would need to see if this one would foot the bill for the test.
                                                                                                              joe
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 10, 2008, 08:59:16 PM
Slowly but surely I'm getting there. For all its worth here's my 1st attempt.  8) 8) 8)
Code in the weeee hours...... ;D

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 10, 2008, 09:24:06 PM
@All

Anyone out there that has a thermal image camera? If so do you have a SEC Exciter PCB? If you have the equipment and no PCB could I send you one to have a couple of tests performed???

Thanks...

The roofing firm my father works at "hes there head estimator/project manager" Not a shingle pirate.  Has a thermal imaging camera that i could use to take pics. I do their computer work and initially had to show their foreman that brings the camera on site to check for leaks, insulation gaps and heat escape ect how to get the pics on the computer . Plus there real nice folks. So if this meets the criteria please tell me, id be glad to get the exact model no or whatever you would need to see if this one would foot the bill for the test.
                                                                                                              joe
@Localjoe
Thank you for the generous offer, although what is needed is a unit that will resolve to at least a 4mm spot and show the spectral response. I looked at the high end FLIR and it came close but not close enough. What I need is someone from a university or a place like NASA to offer to take a couple of pictures. The $4K-$10K domestic units just will not do what is required.

Yet again, thanks for the offer.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Localjoe on May 10, 2008, 09:28:46 PM
@RStiffler

Yep, no prob i figured as much but decided to offer anyways  :).  Great work as always.
                                                                                    Joe
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 10, 2008, 09:29:22 PM
@All
Sorry I have been away for a short time, it was necessary to move the lab and that was a pain in the a--. Now have the benches set back up and have applied power to all the gear and a mess of some new instruments. Trying to get use to how it is all now arranged and keep reaching to the right when the unit is on the left. I'll get it, another day or two.

Some new information is being added to the SEC (.pdf) and be sure to watch my web site for when it is available.

SO back now and see nothing has been going on?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on May 10, 2008, 10:35:18 PM
I have been very busy charging batteries with the SEC and testing the load all via computers. Soon, I will have numbers for all. Every new configuration I try takes days to test the charge/load process.

So from my part it looks quiet BUT it is definetly not. This SEC is a little beast!!!

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on May 11, 2008, 01:41:07 AM
Hi All,
I have received my SEC circuit, but did not yet have any time
to fire it up.

Great progress by all users here.

By the way, just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP-RmzjN0l8

Maybe it could be used to use UV LEDs to enhance
the heat output of the SEC even more.

Purple glowing neon plasma has probably more heat output.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 11, 2008, 03:18:19 AM
Hi All,
I have received my SEC circuit, but did not yet have any time
to fire it up.

Great progress by all users here.

By the way, just watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP-RmzjN0l8

Maybe it could be used to use UV LEDs to enhance
the heat output of the SEC even more.

Purple glowing neon plasma has probably more heat output.

Regards, Stefan.
@Stefan
Yes, indeed a UV source can aid in the first ignition of the neon as shown in the video you listed, but there are a couple of points that should be of additional interest.

1) If you look at a hand full of neons you will see the electrodes are not all aligned the same, some may be closer at the top or the bottom. While others appear to be proportionately spaced.

2) The extent of the ionization in the neon before the UV light is added. In other words very slight as in the video or at least 1/2 of an electrode illuminated.

Once a good ionization condition exists the small UV LEDS have little to offer in adding to the gas power levels. This does not say that a very strong UV source will not do something, but not the low level stuff as far as I have tested. I did a significant number of tests in this same area and determined that the UV does not add (in a measurable) way to the heat produced by the neon once it is full and heavily ionized.

It was an interesting video, but to my knowledge will not help in a SEC Exciter in any way.

@ALL

I knew it would happen, someone would make the parasitic mod on their board and then drive it with more than 20 volts. Well I have duplicated the problems this will create and it should be of great interest.

1) Even though the transistor does not overheat, something happens that reduces its hfe greatly. All the transistors in all the SEC Exciters leave our lab with a transistor with an hfe>200 and <300. I have seen hfe's drop to as low as 90. The circuit will work, but the neon is very dim and tuning becomes very sharp.

2) The neon changes dynamics. I have no idea what is happening, but it will only operate with a small portion of the electrodes glowing. Even increasing the voltage will not make either electrode fully illuminate.

What I have done at the lab is add transistor sockets to the lab boards, this makes easy testing of the transistor. I have not socketed the neon yet, but have that idea.

The condition happens starting at about 28V and up. I ran one at 32V for three hours and it was a flame thrower. Turned it off and let it all cool. Turned it back on at 20V and it did not work. The transistor started with an hfe of 245 and had dropped to 109.

SO CAUTION if you are going to crank then up, be prepared for a transistor or neon to fail.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 11, 2008, 07:38:53 AM
@Dr.Stiffler and All

  Dear Doctor,

    I am quite sure that there is a relation with Dr. Chukanov's ball lightning experiments. He is using  microwaves and additional electron bombing to pressurized air,Ne,He gases to achieve 50 times overunity and steam production.
 
   I guess you have discovered another triggering mechanism of ball lightning via RF waves.

   I will send your findings to Mr. Chukanov and ask him to comment about your discovery.He has already tested his 500 kW industiral level overunity steam generator. We are negotiating with him on possible scenarios of manufacturing his devices in Turkey.

   It is also appreciated to hear your comments too.

  Please check Dr. Chukanov's free Ball Lightning E-book at http://www.chukanovenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=40&Itemid=54

   Best Regards,
   Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 11, 2008, 01:53:20 PM
@All
PC is talking to the DAQs and the 4 channel analog DAQ is reading three temperature sensors, Ta, Tc, and Tw. Three additional DAQs are dedicated to measuring P-IN, Vin, and Iin+ / Iin- . The 5th in the stack is Digital I/O for houskeeping and handling over temp alarm outputs and auto power disconnect. All in all I'd say not much is being posted but it's going on!  :D Back to programming you DOG!  :-*

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 11, 2008, 02:13:01 PM
@Dr.Stiffler and All

  Dear Doctor,

    I am quite sure that there is a relation with Dr. Chukanov's ball lightning experiments. He is using  microwaves and additional electron bombing to pressurized air,Ne,He gases to achieve 50 times overunity and steam production.
 
   I guess you have discovered another triggering mechanism of ball lightning via RF waves.

   I will send your findings to Mr. Chukanov and ask him to comment about your discovery.He has already tested his 500 kW industiral level overunity steam generator. We are negotiating with him on possible scenarios of manufacturing his devices in Turkey.

   It is also appreciated to hear your comments too.

  Please check Dr. Chukanov's free Ball Lightning E-book at http://www.chukanovenergy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=40&Itemid=54

   Best Regards,
   Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
@samedsoft
A number of years ago I looked at what I could find on Dr. Chukanov's work and at that time detail were few so I have not paid further attention. The last I saw was that he was working in Canada?

I have received information (unconfirmed) that a researcher using a SEC Exciter built a five (5) terminal   
Ne bulb with (4) terminals at 90' locations and a terminal in the center of the circular arrangement.  He states he drive opposing electrodes from two AV Plugs off the exciter. The center electrode is at earth ground. It is stated that a very hot ionization forms around the centered grounded electrode.

Much to my dismay I do not have the capability or knowledge to build bulbs like this, but hoping to obtain one. If reports are correct, this would be a possible answer for a productive Exciter.

Has the good Doctor an underlying theory?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 11, 2008, 04:49:58 PM
@All

"Having a bit of trouble posting again, so forgive duplicates, I will remove them."

Adding sockets to the SEC15-3 board for the serious experimenter. Allows interchange and replacement of transistors and neons. Also allows a nice connection to the outside world via the neon socket.



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 11, 2008, 06:33:49 PM
Plugs right into the PC.  ;D

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 11, 2008, 07:48:55 PM
@ALL
When is Hot, Hot enough? See New video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmsKHmGq0ec
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 11, 2008, 07:50:55 PM
Plugs right into the PC.  ;D

Loki
Why did you not leave it connected as when you did your initial testing? We have all seen wiring!

So where does your calibration method fit in?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 11, 2008, 08:28:46 PM
@All

A MAJOR discovery! In a few posts back I talked of the experimenters driving their SEC boards at high levels and either suffering the loss of a transistor or neon, well we are getting closer to knowing what is happening to the neons. The electrodes are being (it currently appears) to a carbonized material. They are pitted with large pits and the metal portion and the new material portion can be easily seen.

I will be moving the exploration over to the video microscope so I can either do a video or upload stills, but what is taking place is indeed interesting.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 11, 2008, 08:59:28 PM

@samedsoft
A number of years ago I looked at what I could find on Dr. Chukanov's work and at that time detail were few so I have not paid further attention. The last I saw was that he was working in Canada?

I have received information (unconfirmed) that a researcher using a SEC Exciter built a five (5) terminal   
Ne bulb with (4) terminals at 90' locations and a terminal in the center of the circular arrangement.  He states he drive opposing electrodes from two AV Plugs off the exciter. The center electrode is at earth ground. It is stated that a very hot ionization forms around the centered grounded electrode.

Much to my dismay I do not have the capability or knowledge to build bulbs like this, but hoping to obtain one. If reports are correct, this would be a possible answer for a productive Exciter.

Has the good Doctor an underlying theory?



@Dr. Stiffler,

   I can assure you Dr. Chukanov is the leading researcher in the field of ball lightning. He has done RF excitation on 1994. Please check http://www.google.com/patents?id=nNIaAAAAEBAJ&dq=5537009

  He has resolved the nature of ball lightning and he found how to convert gas into plasma state and then to ball lightning state. He has now world's biggest stable synthetic ball lightning reactor. He has patented microwave excitement as well at http://www.google.com/patents?id=HXIVAAAAEBAJ&dq=6936971

  He releases very good information on his patents and he is renewing his web site on these days. http://www.chukanovenergy.com/images/pdfbook/Ball_Lightning.pdf has introductory information on his findings. 
 
  He notes that ball lightning event releases soft X-Rays, UV, IR and visible light..  This is important for SEC experimenters to secure their eyes!!! I am willing to purchase one but I am still waiting for Stefan's experiment results on SEC device COP calculations....
 
  I will consult Dr Chukanov about optimum gas selection and pressure for SEC device in order to obtain best heat output.  I will let him know about your discoveries as well.

  Please try to read patents and ball lightning book when ever you have time...

  I am looking for your comments.
 
  Best regards to all SEC experimenters,
  Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 11, 2008, 09:10:27 PM
@ALL
When is Hot, Hot enough? See New video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmsKHmGq0ec

@Dr. Stiffler,
 
  You are apperently measuring COP = 2 is that correct?

   Please make sure that you do not look directly to the ball lightning!! We need your eyes :)


    Best Regards,
    Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey

   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 11, 2008, 09:34:34 PM

@samedsoft
A number of years ago I looked at what I could find on Dr. Chukanov's work and at that time detail were few so I have not paid further attention. The last I saw was that he was working in Canada?

I have received information (unconfirmed) that a researcher using a SEC Exciter built a five (5) terminal   
Ne bulb with (4) terminals at 90' locations and a terminal in the center of the circular arrangement.  He states he drive opposing electrodes from two AV Plugs off the exciter. The center electrode is at earth ground. It is stated that a very hot ionization forms around the centered grounded electrode.

Much to my dismay I do not have the capability or knowledge to build bulbs like this, but hoping to obtain one. If reports are correct, this would be a possible answer for a productive Exciter.

Has the good Doctor an underlying theory?



@Dr. Stiffler,

   I can assure you Dr. Chukanov is the leading researcher in the field of ball lightning. He has done RF excitation on 1994. Please check http://www.google.com/patents?id=nNIaAAAAEBAJ&dq=5537009

  He has resolved the nature of ball lightning and he found how to convert gas into plasma state and then to ball lightning state. He has now world's biggest stable synthetic ball lightning reactor. He has patented microwave excitement as well at http://www.google.com/patents?id=HXIVAAAAEBAJ&dq=6936971

  He releases very good information on his patents and he is renewing his web site on these days. http://www.chukanovenergy.com/images/pdfbook/Ball_Lightning.pdf has introductory information on his findings. 
 
  He notes that ball lightning event releases soft X-Rays, UV, IR and visible light..  This is important for SEC experimenters to secure their eyes!!! I am willing to purchase one but I am still waiting for Stefan's experiment results on SEC device COP calculations....
 
  I will consult Dr Chukanov about optimum gas selection and pressure for SEC device in order to obtain best heat output.  I will let him know about your discoveries as well.

  Please try to read patents and ball lightning book when ever you have time...

  I am looking for your comments.
 
  Best regards to all SEC experimenters,
  Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
@samedsoft
Please do not take anything I say as a negative on the Dr. I tried the link you supplied in a few posts back and maybe because I use FireFox I could not really see anything, I tried loading a few of the (.pdf's) and just received blank screens.

Anyway, I will look further as you have advised, although I firmly feel this is not the ball lightning effect, yet I beleive it may come from the same interface to the energy lattice through wide bandwidth excitation. I hope the Dr. is not feeling that I and duplicating his work as I can be so bold as to say I have as yet to exceed 30W, far from a 500kw unit.

Anyway to answer you next question, my videos are honest and speak for themselves.

Thank you for the responses.

BTW: I do indeed protect my eyes....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 11, 2008, 09:36:59 PM
Plugs right into the PC.  ;D

Loki
Why did you not leave it connected as when you did your initial testing? We have all seen wiring!

So where does your calibration method fit in?


The RS485 network is going through the floor into the pit/basement. I haven't routed the cable yet and I'm going to control the temp in a small area downstairs so I'm not trying to heat the planet. The calorimeter will run downstairs, the PC upstairs. The wiring wasn't the point yet unless someone saw a potential noise problem that I'm missing. The initial testing is just communications testing to see if the surplus garbage actually functions and reads from the jumpered in and as yet uncalibrated temp sensors, which it seems to. Calibration of the calorimeter will be done exactly as you have said, with a big old power resistor and and known input power, obviously after I'm done putting together. Part-time work is unfortunately slow.

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 11, 2008, 09:50:14 PM

@samedsoft
A number of years ago I looked at what I could find on Dr. Chukanov's work and at that time detail were few so I have not paid further attention. The last I saw was that he was working in Canada?

I have received information (unconfirmed) that a researcher using a SEC Exciter built a five (5) terminal   
Ne bulb with (4) terminals at 90' locations and a terminal in the center of the circular arrangement.  He states he drive opposing electrodes from two AV Plugs off the exciter. The center electrode is at earth ground. It is stated that a very hot ionization forms around the centered grounded electrode.

Much to my dismay I do not have the capability or knowledge to build bulbs like this, but hoping to obtain one. If reports are correct, this would be a possible answer for a productive Exciter.

Has the good Doctor an underlying theory?



@Dr. Stiffler,

   I can assure you Dr. Chukanov is the leading researcher in the field of ball lightning. He has done RF excitation on 1994. Please check http://www.google.com/patents?id=nNIaAAAAEBAJ&dq=5537009

  He has resolved the nature of ball lightning and he found how to convert gas into plasma state and then to ball lightning state. He has now world's biggest stable synthetic ball lightning reactor. He has patented microwave excitement as well at http://www.google.com/patents?id=HXIVAAAAEBAJ&dq=6936971

  He releases very good information on his patents and he is renewing his web site on these days. http://www.chukanovenergy.com/images/pdfbook/Ball_Lightning.pdf has introductory information on his findings. 
 
  He notes that ball lightning event releases soft X-Rays, UV, IR and visible light..  This is important for SEC experimenters to secure their eyes!!! I am willing to purchase one but I am still waiting for Stefan's experiment results on SEC device COP calculations....
 
  I will consult Dr Chukanov about optimum gas selection and pressure for SEC device in order to obtain best heat output.  I will let him know about your discoveries as well.

  Please try to read patents and ball lightning book when ever you have time...

  I am looking for your comments.
 
  Best regards to all SEC experimenters,
  Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
@samedsoft
*****
 I am willing to purchase one but I am still waiting for Stefan's experiment results on SEC device COP calculations....

I hope that Stefan understands that the SEC15-20 was not built for this type of testing. In order to test for excess heat he will be required to drop (cut) the chaining from the first AV Plug and move the Neon back to the first position (as in the SEC15-3) and then add the parasitic plate and additional capacitor. If not, the the SEC15-3 was not stated to be able to show excess heat (see www.drstiffler.com/) and the SEC15-20 will not because of the added LED's.

Just a heads up on this...

Also there are very few SEC Boards left and the link to purchase same will be removed in the next few days. I do not intend to order additional boards.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 12, 2008, 12:52:30 AM
@ALL
When is Hot, Hot enough? See New video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmsKHmGq0ec

Yes I do believe I have it. A ball of fire. 140F gun measured neon  24.12VDC @ 36ma power input. I just couldn't cook my only board. But now that problem is solved.  ;D I will get results just as soon as I can. Sorry for the delay!  8) 

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on May 12, 2008, 12:58:08 AM
I think if you over power a neon it exibits <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputtering">sputtering</a> , but that might not be it.  Great progress here, I'm trying to learn more and more so I can start experimenting as well.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on May 12, 2008, 01:00:59 AM
I received my boards a couple of days ago and I've played with them for a few hours, great fun and some weird stuff going on.

The fact that Dr.S. has measured COP approx 2 is astonishing and very exciting, congratulations!

I am just waiting on a mixed bag of chokes from china so I can mod my SEC 15-3 as per the video instructions, I was tempted to desolder my 15-20 unit but I moght as well wait a little. I've found some nice flat tin sheet and nylon standoff to make the capacitance plate. Then I'll tune for brightness and low input current and do the calorimetry.

Good luck to all those searching for COP>1.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 12, 2008, 01:31:22 AM
I think if you over power a neon it exibits <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputtering">sputtering</a> , but that might not be it.  Great progress here, I'm trying to learn more and more so I can start experimenting as well.

@Freezer
Yes you are correct and if this were the case I would think one should see the metal as a rise or glob on the electrodes or at least maybe on the glass. This will be explored also when they are degassed and the gas is analyzed.

I did the video of the microscope images but will not get them on YT until Monday. What can be see through the glass is deep pits and no ridge buildup. Time will tell as we have just started here.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 12, 2008, 01:37:58 AM
I received my boards a couple of days ago and I've played with them for a few hours, great fun and some weird stuff going on.

The fact that Dr.S. has measured COP approx 2 is astonishing and very exciting, congratulations!

I am just waiting on a mixed bag of chokes from china so I can mod my SEC 15-3 as per the video instructions, I was tempted to desolder my 15-20 unit but I moght as well wait a little. I've found some nice flat tin sheet and nylon standoff to make the capacitance plate. Then I'll tune for brightness and low input current and do the calorimetry.

Good luck to all those searching for COP>1.
@Yucca
The boards were intended for demo of single wire and broadband exciter, hoping everyone had the same thing to look at and explore without modification required. I made a big error in thinking that someone would not want to go the full route, although I did feel there would be less than 1% or experimenters that would really do calorimetry.

The SEC15-20 is the demo of both worlds and the 15-3 is the basic work horse. Anyway if one is careful the 15-3 is a fun board for sure and with the plate and 24V it makes heat.

Looking forward to you results.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 12, 2008, 04:27:41 AM
@ All ... here is some intersting read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp

When my neon is going I only have have 1 electrode working.  Does anyone else have this or do yours have both electrodes lighting?



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on May 12, 2008, 05:21:25 AM
Here is some interesting info---
From --http://www.chukanovenergy.com/images/pdfbook/Ball_Lightning.pdf
Quote
Note: a tiny ball lightning can destroy the electrode in a few seconds.It makes large holes in the electrodes but does not melt it.only very high energy electrons can produce such an effect.
This is a very informative document, I think there are many aspects to HV/HF currents that have been overlooked. I also like the fact there have been real experiments performed and this is not just another wild unproven theory.


Some highlights from---http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp
Quote
--When driven from a DC source, only the negatively charged electrode (cathode) will glow. When driven from an AC source, both electrodes will glow (each during alternate half cycles).
--Once lit, a neon lamp has a negative resistance characteristic: increasing the current flow through the device increases the number of ions, thereby decreasing the resistance of the lamp and allowing even more current to flow.
--However, while too low a current causes flickering, too high a current increases the wear of the electrodes by stimulating sputtering, which coats the internal surface of the lamp with metal and causes it to darken.
--Most small neon (indicator-sized) lamps, such as the common NE-2, break down at between 90 and 110 volts. This feature enables their use as very simple voltage regulators or overvoltage protection devices.
--They were also used for a variety of other purposes; since a neon lamp can act as a relaxation oscillator with an added resistor and capacitor, it can be used as a simple flashing lamp or audio oscillator.
--In AC-excited lamps, both electrodes produce light, but in a DC-excited lamp, only the negative electrode glows. Thus a neon lamp can be used to distinguish between AC and DC sources and to ascertain the polarity of DC sources.

It's funny I had never considered the NE-2 neon in my high voltage/high frequency circuits but it would make perfect sense to use the NE-2 as a kind of HV zener diode as it conducts at 90 to 110 volts potential. In this way potential could be admitted into a seperate resonant circuit but still remain connected to some extent and produce feedback above the breakdown voltage but not below ;).I think I will have to get my hands on some of these NE-2 neons.
P.S.-- I recieved my SEC 15-3 a few days ago and have some unique experiments planned, the first is to determine the true wave period external to the SEC in a single conductor which should be interesting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 12, 2008, 12:28:10 PM
@ All ... here is some intersting read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp

When my neon is going I only have have 1 electrode working.  Does anyone else have this or do yours have both electrodes lighting?





@Nickle989,
When mine are tuned for:
1. Max Subjective Neon Brightness
2. Maximum Neon Temperature
3. Minimum Input Current

1 electrode is fully engulfed From time to time the Neon flickers and gun measured neon temperature is 143.5F with the transistor running at 80F, the 22uH choke at 87F. Indeed 1 electrode indicating HV DC. The glowing electrode is connected to the ANODE lead of 1 of the AV plug diodes.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Frederic2k1 on May 12, 2008, 01:55:21 PM
Here is some interesting info---
From --http://www.chukanovenergy.com/images/pdfbook/Ball_Lightning.pdf
Quote
Note: a tiny ball lightning can destroy the electrode in a few seconds.It makes large holes in the electrodes but does not melt it.only very high energy electrons can produce such an effect.
This is a very informative document, I think there are many aspects to HV/HF currents that have been overlooked. I also like the fact there have been real experiments performed and this is not just another wild unproven theory.

@ allcanadian

Can you see all pictures included in this pdf ? On my AcrobatReader half the documents pictures will not load :(
And there are also some pages he will not load. I'm trying to find out if I am the only one with this problem. Because I would like to read the whole document... it is damn interessting.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 12, 2008, 02:32:37 PM
@Loki

Quote
1 electrode is fully engulfed From time to time the Neon flickers and gun measured neon temperature is 143.5F with the transistor running at 80F, the 22uH choke at 87F. Indeed 1 electrode indicating HV DC. The glowing electrode is connected to the ANODE lead of 1 of the AV plug diodes.

Thanks Jim, at first I thought I was going nuts. Have been messing around with my frankenstein version and have noticed some interesting things.  I really need to get me some of those coil forms.  When taking readings off the scope and I get to having the wave form duplicate the top and bottom (or at least the closest I can get it) I have the great efficiency. I then disconnect the scope off and the NEON gets just a little brighter and hotter.  But at least it gives me a place to aim towards.

There is certainly more going on in this then what is meeting the electronic eye. 

I am going to see how much the local NEON place here will charge to make up some custom designs.  When adding another neon to the mix it somehow changes the ION field around the board in a disfavor.   I also think that a rectangular plate is not the best thing .. round would be better I think.

I love my burt finger tips  :).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 13, 2008, 02:19:27 AM
@Loki

Quote
1 electrode is fully engulfed From time to time the Neon flickers and gun measured neon temperature is 143.5F with the transistor running at 80F, the 22uH choke at 87F. Indeed 1 electrode indicating HV DC. The glowing electrode is connected to the ANODE lead of 1 of the AV plug diodes.

Thanks Jim, at first I thought I was going nuts. Have been messing around with my frankenstein version and have noticed some interesting things.  I really need to get me some of those coil forms.  When taking readings off the scope and I get to having the wave form duplicate the top and bottom (or at least the closest I can get it) I have the great efficiency. I then disconnect the scope off and the NEON gets just a little brighter and hotter.  But at least it gives me a place to aim towards.

There is certainly more going on in this then what is meeting the electronic eye. 

I am going to see how much the local NEON place here will charge to make up some custom designs.  When adding another neon to the mix it somehow changes the ION field around the board in a disfavor.   I also think that a rectangular plate is not the best thing .. round would be better I think.

I love my burt finger tips  :).

Yes.....I have certainly built some nice devices and some Frankensteins. ;D It happens! But now I'm quite comfortable with adjusting SEC 15-3 and my proto-board circuits for heat. I have two more SEC 15-3's on the way and will try to get some heating runs in the calorimeter this coming weekend. I have to test the supply that will power the experiment. For now I'm just simply passing data from the DAQ's into a spreadsheet and will automate the calculations soon too. I'd be quite interested in the custom neon, please keep me in mind and pass along what you will. Good idea on the geometry, I'm looking into that also.

The change in neon intensity when you remove the scope shows or tells you that the circuit was tuned with the probe impedance loading the circuit right? I say keep that critter out of there and get a feel for this circuit by tuning in the dark for awhile. First, check that you have the proper capacitance to the backplate. Then apply Dr. Stifflers +/- current measurements experiment exactly as he instructed to set it up and see if you see differences in the supply branches. Tune for maximum neon intensity and minimum current from the supply simultaneously. Then try the experiment a few times. Don't change the supply settings at all. Just turn it off and on. Do it with the scope probe in circuit and then remove the probe and then try no scope in circuit and power up, you know try a bunch of different combinations.  ;D Remember No Earth grounds! Not in supplies! Not in test equipment including possibly that probe ground clip, yes? It is a lot of rules to remember but I'm learning to listen pretty well. Keep up the good work. I hope to be getting the heat measurements soon. I'm going to rely on Windows to perform something for extended hours without locking up.....be afraid....be very afraid........ ;D

Best regards,

Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 13, 2008, 02:45:42 AM
@Loki

Quote
1 electrode is fully engulfed From time to time the Neon flickers and gun measured neon temperature is 143.5F with the transistor running at 80F, the 22uH choke at 87F. Indeed 1 electrode indicating HV DC. The glowing electrode is connected to the ANODE lead of 1 of the AV plug diodes.

Thanks Jim, at first I thought I was going nuts. Have been messing around with my frankenstein version and have noticed some interesting things.  I really need to get me some of those coil forms.  When taking readings off the scope and I get to having the wave form duplicate the top and bottom (or at least the closest I can get it) I have the great efficiency. I then disconnect the scope off and the NEON gets just a little brighter and hotter.  But at least it gives me a place to aim towards.

There is certainly more going on in this then what is meeting the electronic eye. 

I am going to see how much the local NEON place here will charge to make up some custom designs.  When adding another neon to the mix it somehow changes the ION field around the board in a disfavor.   I also think that a rectangular plate is not the best thing .. round would be better I think.

I love my burt finger tips  :).

Yes.....I have certainly built some nice devices and some Frankensteins. ;D It happens! But now I'm quite comfortable with adjusting SEC 15-3 and my proto-board circuits for heat. I have two more SEC 15-3's on the way and will try to get some heating runs in the calorimeter this coming weekend. I have to test the supply that will power the experiment. For now I'm just simply passing data from the DAQ's into a spreadsheet and will automate the calculations soon too. I'd be quite interested in the custom neon, please keep me in mind and pass along what you will. Good idea on the geometry, I'm looking into that also.

The change in neon intensity when you remove the scope shows or tells you that the circuit was tuned with the probe impedance loading the circuit right? I say keep that critter out of there and get a feel for this circuit by tuning in the dark for awhile. First, check that you have the proper capacitance to the backplate. Then apply Dr. Stifflers +/- current measurements experiment exactly as he instructed to set it up and see if you see differences in the supply branches. Tune for maximum neon intensity and minimum current from the supply simultaneously. Then try the experiment a few times. Don't change the supply settings at all. Just turn it off and on. Do it with the scope probe in circuit and then remove the probe and then try no scope in circuit and power up, you know try a bunch of different combinations.  ;D Remember No Earth grounds! Not in supplies! Not in test equipment including possibly that probe ground clip, yes? It is a lot of rules to remember but I'm learning to listen pretty well. Keep up the good work. I hope to be getting the heat measurements soon. I'm going to rely on Windows to perform something for extended hours without locking up.....be afraid....be very afraid........ ;D

Best regards,

Jim 
@nickle989
@Loki67671
@All
Reading the top two posts brought a picture to mind which may be a good analogy on how to treat a SEC Exciter.

Think of a soap bubble rising from a soap filled container. How would you evaluate that bubble? You can not grab it and manipulate it, you can not insert a pressure meter to measure the internal pressure, let along weighing it presents a number of problems. So when you look at an Exciter think of that bubble, you mess with it in even a marginal way, you have good odds of destroying it.

To measure parameters of that bubble and a SEC Exciter is difficult at best, but not impossible, so long as you keep your distance and do not disturb the medium in which it floats.

The SEC Exciter is forming a capacitive interface to the universal energy lattice and disturbing it with its extreme bandwidth excitation. Each frequency in the excitation is causing a vibration of the building blocks of the lattice and so confusing them that they become chaotic for nanoseconds of time. These short burst of time where the fabric trying to recover its normal quiescent energy state is when energy is added to the Exciter.
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on May 13, 2008, 03:10:20 AM
@Dr.Stiffler
Quote
The SEC Exciter is forming a capacitive interface to the universal energy lattice and disturbing it with its extreme bandwidth excitation. Each frequency in the excitation is causing a vibration of the building blocks of the lattice and so confusing them that they become chaotic for nanoseconds of time. These short burst of time where the fabric trying to recover its normal quiescent energy state is when energy is added to the Exciter

Precisely what I understood to be the mechanics of SEC. Very good analogy doctor.

That brings me a question that has been hunting me for a long time now. If the lattice of the energy is restoring its state after it gets "perturbed" by SEC and I am assuming SEC is only perturbing it very little, how much more in intensity would be possible to perturb that lattice to extract more energy?

Is this caused by the frequency range or would be more related to the speed of the gradient?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 13, 2008, 04:08:47 AM
@Dr.Stiffler
Quote
The SEC Exciter is forming a capacitive interface to the universal energy lattice and disturbing it with its extreme bandwidth excitation. Each frequency in the excitation is causing a vibration of the building blocks of the lattice and so confusing them that they become chaotic for nanoseconds of time. These short burst of time where the fabric trying to recover its normal quiescent energy state is when energy is added to the Exciter

Precisely what I understood to be the mechanics of SEC. Very good analogy doctor.

That brings me a question that has been hunting me for a long time now. If the lattice of the energy is restoring its state after it gets "perturbed" by SEC and I am assuming SEC is only perturbing it very little, how much more in intensity would be possible to perturb that lattice to extract more energy?

Is this caused by the frequency range or would be more related to the speed of the gradient?

Fausto.

I cannot say that I ever had a clearer picture than now but I had allowed myself to think along these lines anyway. That's probably natural and comes from trying to visualize and understand radio based devices and transmission lines in practical everyday work. But what seems to come to my mind, from the analogy, is if I push then the lattice pushes back, but not in the normal elastic sense, in the SEC interface sense. Hence the critical tunings and frequency responses of the individual and aggregate components. What a truly complex device, for one that seems so simple. I drew the SEC diagram for a 2nd year undergrad EE/Phy major today. His response was, "yeah right, I just got out of thermodynamics, leave me alone" LOL  So maximizing the distribution and intensity of spectral energy will cause increased perturbation of the lattice? That means more input power no? That also means more back? A wicked catch-22. Am I thinking about this correctly? Thanks for the food for intense thought, it is greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Jim   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 13, 2008, 06:51:10 AM
@All

A MAJOR discovery! In a few posts back I talked of the experimenters driving their SEC boards at high levels and either suffering the loss of a transistor or neon, well we are getting closer to knowing what is happening to the neons. The electrodes are being (it currently appears) to a carbonized material.


@Dr. Stiffler,

   Dear Doctor,

   In one of Dr. Chukanov's patent, I have read that; When he applies electric discharge  to Quantum Macro Object (Ball lightning body) he observes tungsten electrodes being melt and became gas state.  Eventually covering the inner surface of bulb. And not permitting microwave radiation to penetrate ....

  In your case the the electrode inside neon lamp might be gasified due to local high temperature on the electrode surface. And making metal oxides. I am not sure what metal is being used in the neons you have.. But it deserves to find out through supplier...


  @plengo,

   We are looking forward to your battery test results. Can you make a circuit with 400V capacitor and see self running and charging affect?

   Best Regards.
   Nuri Temurlenk

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 13, 2008, 11:06:50 AM
@samedsoft,
The book on ball lightning, I would like to have a copy that isn't damaged. The book at the end of the link you have provided is definitely something I wish to look at in depth but the document is terrible. I'm no pdf expert but this one has issues loading graphics and some pages. Or can you purchase "good" one's?  :D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 13, 2008, 12:33:05 PM
@samedsoft,
The book on ball lightning, I would like to have a copy that isn't damaged. The book at the end of the link you have provided is definitely something I wish to look at in depth but the document is terrible. I'm no pdf expert but this one has issues loading graphics and some pages. Or can you purchase "good" one's?  :D

Best regards,

Jim

 @Jim
 
    Dear Jim,

        I do have word format of these documents,  but I need to get permission from Dr.Chukanov to send them. Alternatively ask him to correct the pdf files.. Can you post web master about this as well? Dr. Chukanov is renewing his site, so this is a good chance to correct pdf's now...

  Nuri Temurlenk
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 13, 2008, 12:41:25 PM
Nuri,
I will shoot an E-mail to them today. Thanks.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 13, 2008, 03:41:35 PM
@Dr.Stiffler
Quote
The SEC Exciter is forming a capacitive interface to the universal energy lattice and disturbing it with its extreme bandwidth excitation. Each frequency in the excitation is causing a vibration of the building blocks of the lattice and so confusing them that they become chaotic for nanoseconds of time. These short burst of time where the fabric trying to recover its normal quiescent energy state is when energy is added to the Exciter

Precisely what I understood to be the mechanics of SEC. Very good analogy doctor.

That brings me a question that has been hunting me for a long time now. If the lattice of the energy is restoring its state after it gets "perturbed" by SEC and I am assuming SEC is only perturbing it very little, how much more in intensity would be possible to perturb that lattice to extract more energy?

Is this caused by the frequency range or would be more related to the speed of the gradient?

Fausto.
@plengo
***how much more in intensity would be possible to perturb that lattice to extract more energy?

Of course I am only going by what I observe and what I feel is taking and can take place, but in my view the energy lattice if 'finite' in that it is limited by the universe itself, now if the universe were to be infinite then the energy lattice itself would be infinite, but that is not of real concern as we on this little world of ours could not even make a dent in the fabric. Going along with my bubble analogy lets consider the energy lattice a pool of water and you take a thimble full out of the pool, the water around it rushes in to replace what you removed. This is what happens in the lattice, but you only use that water and it is returned to the pool, so the pool always maintains itself at a constant level.

How is the energy returned to the lattice (heat) of course. I do not believe heat (energy) is lost as some say when liberated into the environment of the universe. I feel the energy is absorbed back into the lattice and (recycled) if you will.

Now I do feel and others have contemplated what would happen if we all started drawing massive amounts from the lattice and some of the pictures are not all that good, yet from a different point of view I just can not conceive of what man would do with that much energy on this little planet?? So I feel that what may result is something similar to weather with the problems of low and high pressure. I think if we were to be to aggressive in extracting this energy that some very weird things can take place, but I would not guess at how they would manifest themselves.

****Is this caused by the frequency range or would be more related to the speed of the gradient?

Both and more. The voltage is also involved and the physical capacity of the circuit. Where do you think the interface is taking place? Do you think it is over the whole circuit (no) do you think it is at the coil (no) is it in the Neon (yes and no the Neon is only one way to show the effect). Is it in the chokes (no), hummm! so where is it taking place?

The higher the voltage the better the interface (limits apply), note that as you increase voltage in an Exciter that the increase in input current moves in 'steps' it is in no way linear. Also note that if for example you have an input current of 40mA and the exciter appears to present excess energy and you detune but the input current remains at 40mA, but the apparent excess energy is gone.

Think about these things a bit more, only people that are working with SEC will understand and start to see what I'm talking about, the book worms think we are all in a Si-Fi state of mind....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 13, 2008, 05:02:03 PM
@All

Well I have the microscope view of the neon electrodes up on YT, its not the best because the scope was not meant for this type of exploration. I will be trying again when I change the light source so the electrodes will receive better inspection light. Anyway it does show some of what I was talking about and is interesting even though a bad video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRJ2GB_eF_Q
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on May 13, 2008, 06:58:48 PM
@samedsoft
With a cap I could not get OU at all. Not that I measure intensively but I have enough tests to conclude that, but again, I am not here trying to find OU yet or dismiss it.

With the lead acid battery is a different case, I am very much utilizing some of Bedini's concepts concerning the charging of it but instead of a SSG I am using the SEC.

Now,

@Dr.Stiffer

thank you sir for great food for the thught. It is really surprising your statement about the energy being manifested on the neon not on the chokes and caps, that kind of makes sence when I see the battery as a replacement of the neon and some strange charging happens since I use the battery instead of the neon.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 13, 2008, 08:25:53 PM

The higher the voltage the better the interface (limits apply), note that as you increase voltage in an Exciter that the increase in input current moves in 'steps' it is in no way linear. Also note that if for example you have an input current of 40mA and the exciter appears to present excess energy and you detune but the input current remains at 40mA, but the apparent excess energy is gone.

@Dr. Stiffler und plengo

  I think there is an correlation between below discoveries to open the window to the lattice.

   Stanley Meyer has a choke yes, but he uses water as the medium.
   Steven Mark has a choke yes, but he uses toroid as the medium.
   Bedini SSG has a choke yes, but it needs permanent magnet system.
   Bearden's MEG has chokes yes, but it needs permanent magnet.
   SEC has a choke yes, it needs neon gas or lead acid battery as the medium (for now)
 
I beleive SEC circuit can be integrated with a special magnet to recover Back EMF from the lattice-magnetic wave medium.


Also we need to dig into Lead Acid battery system and understand why it is able to capture electrons from the choke? Can other electrochemical battery systems may increase the capturing effect?

 Plengo can you draw a detailed circuit diagram with real values of the (BSP) Bedini-Stiffler-Plengo variation? Also can you dissolve some salt into the Lead Acid battery?

On the other hand, in order to prevent electrode erosion, we need to look at Tesla's wireless energy transfer system and John Kanzius's salt water RF system. That is We need to place a bulb full of pressurized gas between the AV plug antenna coupled system.   Did anybody understood the last sentence? :)

  Kind Regards,
  Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
  
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 13, 2008, 08:27:22 PM
@ The Dr.,Plengo and all

As I see it -

Energy Latice - Energy Transformation - Energy Equilibrium -

In many of the great minds, Hawkin's and the theoretical folks like him.  Have long
explored and talked about this universal energy source. Alot of us around the world,
by that I mean the out of the BOX folks, have been using this energy source for a
long time to get to achieve OU. Tom Beardin, Bendini and right close to us here
Dr. Stiffler.

Here are some thoughts and observations from my own little brain that have been squirreled
away from different moments in time.

For the longest time I have maintained and believed that the Universe will not allow
OU.  It will allow us though to transfer energy, as Dr. Stiffler put it so nicely the
energy lattice, from one medium to another, the SEC NEON to Heat.  But when we do this
transfer what is the cost of that energy to make the conversion, or where does this energy
go when a complete transfer does not occur, we call this effiecency rate.  It still remains
and is dispersed as heat, static electricity and other forms. Use a simple electrical motor
as an example.

Let's look at the Universe now, it is expanding but where does the energy come from if there
is not Overunity?  This is a large pondering question that many have theories about, here
is mine.

Black holes, I still do not believe in overunity as the Universe is always looking for
equilibrium.  Take a look at the quantum view of black-holes and how it could create energy
behind the lattice (thinking of a 2 dimensional plane). Black-holes take the energy appart that they
swallow and transport the energy back into the energy lattice or if you will fabric of space
and time.  This would be the KICK, as so many OU seekers call it, leading way new SUN's and
other energy particles.  The SEC in my humble opinion makes very good use of all of its energy
transformations.  One could even say that it has the ability to locate exact energy or bring
that energy to it from behind the lattice, I am almost to the point where this could lead to
the answer of what is gravity? not talking of the effects or the cause of gravity.


This could very well be, one of the greatest disoveries made thank's to Dr.Stiffler and folks that
influenced him.  I agree with your last post Dr. Stiffler, and wanted to expand on it.

@ samedsoft - I like your post ... it came while I was constructing this post
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on May 15, 2008, 04:24:07 PM
@All

Well I have the microscope view of the neon electrodes up on YT, its not the best because the scope was not meant for this type of exploration. I will be trying again when I change the light source so the electrodes will receive better inspection light. Anyway it does show some of what I was talking about and is interesting even though a bad video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRJ2GB_eF_Q

Dr Stiffler, the erosion and pock marks on the electrodes would lead one to think the 'missing' material is now the fuzzy looking material. I wonder if this change in the electrodes is contributing somehow to the generation of heat.

Dave
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on May 16, 2008, 09:27:33 PM
*Removed by Dr. Stiffler*
Material has no meaning or value on this thread.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on May 16, 2008, 09:30:05 PM
*Removed by Dr. Stiffler*
Material has no meaning or value on this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on May 17, 2008, 03:17:12 PM
Tesla also made his own bulbs and I doubt many of us here have such resources available to do that today...or perhaps every common joe can make a light bulb in a shop and I'm just not aware of it? :)

I believe doc is using AVP as an indicator circuit to allow some visual indication besides neon bulb of SEC operation, it is by far not the final solution to extracting/converting whatever energy SEC taps into. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on May 17, 2008, 09:19:59 PM
*Removed by Dr. Stiffler*
Material has no meaning or value on this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on May 17, 2008, 09:21:53 PM
*Removed by Dr. Stiffler*
Material has no meaning or value on this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on May 17, 2008, 09:25:30 PM
*Removed by Dr. Stiffler*
Material has no meaning or value on this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on May 17, 2008, 09:29:01 PM
*Removed by Dr. Stiffler*
Material has no meaning or value on this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on May 17, 2008, 09:36:03 PM
*Removed by Dr. Stiffler*
Material has no meaning or value on this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on May 17, 2008, 10:03:58 PM
*Removed by Dr. Stiffler*
Material has no meaning or value on this thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on May 17, 2008, 10:17:03 PM
retrod is probably right in his theory. Would be interesting to see if neon working with normal electricity is eroded the same way.Also a simple check would confirm that as I suppose that there is electrostatic field opposite  on each electrode and could be checked even outside neon glass.On one side neon should attract a piece of aluminum foil ?
*Forest
Yes, please be sure to provide us all with the details of your experiments. *Forest we are not under your command, please do the work and provide the results so we may all share in your work. As Dr Stiffler has said before - there are far to many talking heads already. Maybe another thread where they are into Tesla would be a better place to offer your ideas?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 18, 2008, 12:13:23 AM
@forest
I do not enjoy being bothered in the first week of vacation I have had is 8 years, but I will take the time to clean up any problems on this thread. There are hundreds of threads that will welcome you and many on Tesla, but not here. If you have 'actual' experimental results on SEC you are welcome to bring then here. Otherwise I will have to destroy my time and just delete your posts (or anyone else that has an agenda).

@DrSimon
Feel free to log into my account and under the guidelines we talked about, delete what ever you fell should not be here.

@ALL
Sorry, but at time the worms do get into the wood.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 18, 2008, 03:39:59 PM
@All,
Progress update: Signal conditioning.
All three temperature sensors are tracking within 0.2 degrees F. They will go into the environmental chamber tomorrow. I am designing Instrumentation Amplifiers for the Voltage input and Current input conditioning / sensing prior to the DAQ inputs. They will be built on the two surfboards you see blank in the photo. Little runtime this weekend as I prepare for the calorimetry. Progress is progress.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 22, 2008, 11:40:29 PM
WOW!

Where has everyone gone? Are my circuits just toys or novelties?

Guess you all have gone to 'where' or I just don't have much to offer?

Okay........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: emitremmah on May 22, 2008, 11:48:45 PM
Hello Dr,
I agree. I am a silent watcher but for 5 days there has been nothing to watch.
"Where have all the windmills gone.Long time passing..."  :-\ :'(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 23, 2008, 02:54:38 AM
@All,
I'm working on my IA's, which have yet to arrive, and current sensing amps and bias components same, and setting up for what have to be real and meaningful measurements as far as I can tell.  8) There is no point in talking about it because no one else seems to. It's not such a simple task, assuming we want to do it correctly, as a 1 man show.  ;D  I'm ordering a LabJack too cause my MCC is borrowed.

My upcoming posts will be the data as I have blown enough air.  ;D When I am sure that I have done it correctly and it is worth a crap. Anything else is insulting and embarrassing. I'm proving it to myself! Then you will see.  ;D

I'd suggest to those that aren't, you should do the same!  :o Entertain me a bit.  :D I know I'm not the only one experimenting with this and I have some buddies interested in Hydrogen now.  ;) You just aren't hearing about it. Bummer!  :-X

Besides I'm planting grapes too!  8) 8) 8)

 8)

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on May 23, 2008, 03:13:39 AM
I am here too. Still load testing using SEC. Not much to say until data is available.

I heard you were in vacation Doc. Is that true? Where did you go?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 23, 2008, 03:53:36 AM
I am here too. Still load testing using SEC. Not much to say until data is available.

I heard you were in vacation Doc. Is that true? Where did you go?

Fausto.
@plengo
I have been told that if one can get away from the normal routine that it should be called a vacation. Lets say a working vacation, private jet with wet bar, yes it must be called a vacation.

Looking forward to your work, some great things coming up so if you find you need to move on, there is some good things in the wings.

@Loki
Wow, an LJ, thats great and you will get some useful software with it. You will enjoy using it and find all kinds of use for it. I forgot about something on your cal of you T sensors. if they are water proof, just call in a water bath.

I to know for a fact much work is being done, but not even the big nasties......
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on May 23, 2008, 05:32:28 AM
I'm just finding the 1 wire stuff fascinating, forgive me, I'm a nub in these areas.  I just started powering up the board, and can see lots of possibilities.  I await to see the next steps from everyone , Stiffler as always your audience is far bigger than the activity here.

(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5975/4764vl3.jpg)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: drspark on May 23, 2008, 10:23:02 AM
Hello Dr Stiffler,

I just finished reading all 50pg,,,  I guess I'm a bit late...
The only way I can think of to decouple the I/O,
is through your HHO gas efforts, connected to a Fuel Cell
connected back to the exciter circuit.

Very Best Regards
DrSpark
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 23, 2008, 02:30:58 PM
I'm just finding the 1 wire stuff fascinating, forgive me, I'm a nub in these areas.  I just started powering up the board, and can see lots of possibilities.  I await to see the next steps from everyone , Stiffler as always your audience is far bigger than the activity here.

(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5975/4764vl3.jpg)
@Freezer
Thank you so much for the picture, you have made my day.

I see you are using a heat sink (great) and I see you have a modified board (second great). You either did the mod from the instructions or are one of a very few that received one modified.

I find it VERY interesting that you have already discovered the field and some approach on how to pull energy from it, this is great on your part. Did you have a theory on how to go for this or were you able to put the pieces together from all the hints and fact? Does not really make a difference how you got here, getting here is what counts. I think you are far enough that it will now just take some thought and think about a bubble that is getting agitated by wide band RF to the point it can not recover fast enough and offers a bit of energy down the line.

Thanks for the post again and a clean well thought out setup and presentation.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 23, 2008, 09:25:47 PM
Hello Dr Stiffler,

I just finished reading all 50pg,,,  I guess I'm a bit late...
The only way I can think of to decouple the I/O,
is through your HHO gas efforts, connected to a Fuel Cell
connected back to the exciter circuit.

Very Best Regards
DrSpark

@drspark
Well I looked at this a few years ago (and yes SEC has been around that long) and here is what I roughed out on the idea.

Assuming only SEC might be OU; Exciter input =1W, Output=4W, drive a very high quality conventional electrolysis cell with 84%eff. So with an input of 4W we would get (ideal) 4*0.84 = 3.36W of equiv H2, feed that into a fuel cell where 30% out is electricity and 70% heat. So the usable electricity (ideal)  would be 3.36*0.3= 1.008W.

Okay I looked and some claim 50% conversion, 3.36*0.5= 1.68W well that might fly, but this was all ideal inspection.

That same SEC with 1W in can produce 4W of direct heat, forget the other expensive gear, a heater should be just fine.

Okay what if the H2 generator was better than 84%, say xxx and we run the ideal numbers again, yes it looks great on paper, but the hogs selling the FC's will make the payback period so long its not worthy of consideration. As it stands now, greed has relegated SEC to a heater (I think today anyway).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 23, 2008, 09:44:50 PM
I'm just finding the 1 wire stuff fascinating, forgive me, I'm a nub in these areas.  I just started powering up the board, and can see lots of possibilities.  I await to see the next steps from everyone , Stiffler as always your audience is far bigger than the activity here.

(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/5975/4764vl3.jpg)
@Freezer
Ok I just looked at a big photo the boys down the hall gave me of your photo and 'its not one of my modified boards' unless you changed out the sockets. Anyway I now see what is going on. I would like to critique the circuit, but not in open form. Reason, I don't agree with a few minor things going on, so if you like you can email me at the drstiffler @...... address and we can go from there.

Great work though.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 24, 2008, 03:40:17 AM
@plengo
I have been told that if one can get away from the normal routine that it should be called a vacation. Lets say a working vacation, private jet with wet bar, yes it must be called a vacation.

Looking forward to your work, some great things coming up so if you find you need to move on, there is some good things in the wings.

@Loki
Wow, an LJ, thats great and you will get some useful software with it. You will enjoy using it and find all kinds of use for it. I forgot about something on your cal of you T sensors. if they are water proof, just call in a water bath.

I to know for a fact much work is being done, but not even the big nasties......


@Dr Stiffler,
Yes sir, after extensive searching and some testing the USB based DAQ's are the way to go. DGH DAQ's work but require too much programming for now. I don't have the time for that at this point. LJ beats MCC by a fair margin in price for what appear to be very similar USB instruments and the ease of use is awesome. It will be purchased very shortly but until then I will continue to develop using the MCC.

Yes there is still RF and lord knows what else at my supply therefore I would be making incorrect measurements. You will see quite a different power supply with the LPF and sensing amps and ample decoupling built into it, driving for the test runs. This sprawling layout isn't going to cut it either.  Might as well build reusable test rigs while I'm at it. The temperature sensors are built waterproof so water bath calibration will work for sure. Thanks for the tip. I'm going to be using a 200-Ohm, 3-Watt ceramic power resistor sitting next to the SEC for calibration of the calorimeter and will very likely be looking at trying some preliminary runs with DC and the resistor this weekend. We'll see the performance with 2 watts dissipated in the resistor. If those look good we'll fire up a SEC heat run not to long after and start eliminating the errors. I have some 50 mili-Ohm sensing resistors that will be used with a current sense amp and an IA sampling supply voltage across a hi-R voltage divider. I'm getting close. Slowly, I know, but???? A far cry from toys or novelty items. Hell you have a following, a silent one, of EE's. The big nasties..................what have they found? Hmmmm. I've definitely learned to stop touching the hot parts. LOL My hands are almost completely healed, for now.

Best regards,

Jim

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 24, 2008, 11:26:07 AM
I'm just finding the 1 wire stuff fascinating, forgive me, I'm a nub in these areas.  I just started powering up the board, and can see lots of possibilities.  I await to see the next steps from everyone , Stiffler as always your audience is far bigger than the activity here.


@Freezer,
 
   Can you show the connection diagram? What are the tweaks you have done one by one?

   Also can you you explain what is the circular thing between the power supply and SEC 3 board?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 24, 2008, 02:10:25 PM
@Freezer,
 
   Can you show the connection diagram? What are the tweaks you have done one by one?

   Also can you you explain what is the circular thing between the power supply and SEC 3 board?


Samedsoft
That HEX shaped object looks like wire management to me but I was up until 03:00AM so????
Dr. Chukanov or "someone" fixed the BL document and added some content to the website. Fascinating. Thanks for the link.

It's back to work for me.

Best regards,

Jim

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 24, 2008, 02:23:27 PM
@All,
Anyone specializing in scientific / lab SW development or SW dev. in general that is willing to donate some code please PM or e-mail me if you would. I have a little project for you that might be worth your while.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 24, 2008, 02:59:32 PM
@Freezer,
 
   Can you show the connection diagram? What are the tweaks you have done one by one?

   Also can you you explain what is the circular thing between the power supply and SEC 3 board?

@All
Just so "Freezer" is not made suspect for my improper choice of words when I asked him to contact me so I could critique his work, what I should have said was 'Hey Freezer I have some stupid questions can you help me out?'

The 'Freezer' circuit is well above board, no trick or gimmicks, he is doing a great job or learning about the SEC Theory and the strangeness of it all.

So feel free to ask him questions, but not thinking I found anything wrong with the picture, I just wanted to understand myself about a few things.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 24, 2008, 03:15:57 PM
@ALL
Well there were a couple of things going on in this forum that seemed to pull all attention in a different way for about a week. This is fine and Simon and I even took a look at it. Although now that I am back and ready to move on and I need the (worker) troops back.

Here are a few possible directions this thread can go and now and because there are a very small number of boards left, there are enough circuits all alike out there that we have a firm base to work from. So here are the directions that I think possible, but I am indeed open to suggestion.

1) Explore the decoupling of the output so we can get EI to do something like power itself.
2) Continue improvement of the Heat generation from the current configurations using a host of different plasmas.
3) Go back and explore the capacitor charging done in the beginning.
4) Move into the H2 production (although in my mind we need >10 to turn this back into EI) for everyday use.

Now I do have other thoughts but they are not fully workable in the lab yet, so no need going there or even talking about them.

So where do you all want to go and what do you want EI, H2 or Heat?

BTW If you want Heat, we do direct Heat, yes you can get Heat from EI and H2, but the conversion loss says go for what you want directly.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on May 24, 2008, 03:47:50 PM
@Freezer,
 
   Can you show the connection diagram? What are the tweaks you have done one by one?

   Also can you you explain what is the circular thing between the power supply and SEC 3 board?

I just did Dr.Stifflers heat mod, and added a heatsink for the transistor.  The circular thing is just wire management as Jim has said, I just didn't want to accidentally have the leads touch and burn the board, as its a precious piece of art.  :D

@Stiffler, I still have a ways to go, and lots more to read, but I want to go the heat route and see what turns up.  I noticed you can use a reverse av plug connected to a multimeter and at least see how far this energy excitation extends in a numerical visual sense.  Of course the numbers won't mean anything, but you can still use it as a gauge instead of the brightness of the led, I guess what ever is easier.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 24, 2008, 04:01:37 PM
@ALL
Well there were a couple of things going on in this forum that seemed to pull all attention in a different way for about a week. This is fine and Simon and I even took a look at it. Although now that I am back and ready to move on and I need the (worker) troops back.

Here are a few possible directions this thread can go and now and because there are a very small number of boards left, there are enough circuits all alike out there that we have a firm base to work from. So here are the directions that I think possible, but I am indeed open to suggestion.

1) Explore the decoupling of the output so we can get EI to do something like power itself.
2) Continue improvement of the Heat generation from the current configurations using a host of different plasmas.
3) Go back and explore the capacitor charging done in the beginning.
4) Move into the H2 production (although in my mind we need >10 to turn this back into EI) for everyday use.

Now I do have other thoughts but they are not fully workable in the lab yet, so no need going there or even talking about them.

So where do you all want to go and what do you want EI, H2 or Heat?

BTW If you want Heat, we do direct Heat, yes you can get Heat from EI and H2, but the conversion loss says go for what you want directly.

@Dr. Stiffler,
Since I'm moving into heat measurement it just makes sense for me to continue in this direction so #2 above is my intent but believe it, my interest in the H2 has been heightened also. I will try to make as great a contribution as I can to these efforts. All four need to be explored as I'm sure you have done and more of the background workers need to actively join us. In any case, and after looking at your website, again and again, I post this shot of more surplus that I can get. Is this something along the lines of different plasma? Of course moving into firing one of these is a bit of a different ball game no? I'm on the HEAT team if you'll have me.  ;D Follow that with H2 work. As slow as I am that should eat up the rest of this year. LOL  8) 8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim

@Loki
Surplus! Boy I love that tube you have. Yes this is one of the different plasma I am talking about and did considerable work with Xenon and excess heat, before I became brave enough  to use the word 'excess'.

Yes again there is a bit of a trick to fire one of these if you want that bright white flash. You need a $2 trigger coil a couple caps and a SIDAC and it works fine from a SEC, but to really get heat from one of these you want a continuous plasma as seen in the very short set of pages on the SS Site. The plasma is not the blinding white of the charge release as the photo flash, rather it is a purple and blue constant heat furnace. I have not shown any of this in this thread, but if we all heat for heat then its just an addition of the parts on the output of a SEC3. It can be done in such a way that the oven is removed from the board and makes much more sense.

Do you only have one of these tubes, the reason I ask is with surplus if we all can not be on the same page it might be hard for replication? The units I have used are the $5 combo from Electronic GoldMine, you get the tube, trigger coil which is not really needed but good to have and a cap. I do use 100uF/350V photoflash caps as they are good and fast if you want to flash. If you want constant plasma, any good 470uF/200V will be fine.

Well we will see how it goes on what everyone would like to do, but I think they are doing what they want now and just will not tell the rest of us.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 24, 2008, 06:01:02 PM
@All .... Does anyone have an ION air cleaner .. ionizer from a store ... if so could you fire it up around the SEC area ... couple of feet away .... and post some findings.  It would be greatly appreciated.

@Loki PM me about the code need ... not looking for $. If I can do it I will.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 24, 2008, 09:08:24 PM
@All .... Does anyone have an ION air cleaner .. ionizer from a store ... if so could you fire it up around the SEC area ... couple of feet away .... and post some findings.  It would be greatly appreciated.

@Loki PM me about the code need ... not looking for $. If I can do it I will.
@nickle989
I assume you have seen the results of the question you ask? Let me say that the current in a SEC Exciter will always contain a % of ions from the local environment, the more ions available the greater its component. This goes to where I have talked about monitoring the current in both the + and - legs of the supply. Assuming you can integrate in real time to account for asymmetry (phase difference), you will be able to see and evaluate the portion that is ionic. The ionic is NOT SEC and degrades SEC.

In short, increased ions, increased Exciter excitation and possible over heating of the transistor.

Is this what you have seen?????
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 25, 2008, 12:10:20 AM
Quote
@nickle989
I assume you have seen the results of the question you ask? Let me say that the current in a SEC Exciter will always contain a % of ions from the local environment, the more ions available the greater its component. This goes to where I have talked about monitoring the current in both the + and - legs of the supply. Assuming you can integrate in real time to account for asymmetry (phase difference), you will be able to see and evaluate the portion that is ionic. The ionic is NOT SEC and degrades SEC.

In short, increased ions, increased Exciter excitation and possible over heating of the transistor.

@ DrStiffler .... I unfortunatly have not had the opportunity yet .. but only had a theory of what might happen ... what you are saying is pretty much what I was thinking. I do not have an IONizer yet.  I suspect that you have looked at such results using an IONizer?  I only have a few MPSA06 left until next week.  I need to get it off the peg board and onto a regular board.  I did see some interesting things when I used used a double coil to tune in .. will post more on that in a bit. Have you made any larger units? .. using a secondary amp or ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 25, 2008, 01:23:42 AM
@ DrStiffler .... I unfortunatly have not had the opportunity yet .. but only had a theory of what might happen ... what you are saying is pretty much what I was thinking. I do not have an IONizer yet.  I suspect that you have looked at such results using an IONizer?  I only have a few MPSA06 left until next week.  I need to get it off the peg board and onto a regular board.  I did see some interesting things when I used used a double coil to tune in .. will post more on that in a bit. Have you made any larger units? .. using a secondary amp or ?

@nickle989
What is happening to you transistors? Burning up?

&&Have you made any larger units? .. using a secondary amp or ?

What do you mean by larger? The SEC15-3 is capable of more, that is the missing parts on the board and it does better. But alas we need more feedback before we go there, one hell of a lot of boards in the 'World', I guess sitting on the mantle or coffee tables.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on May 25, 2008, 02:49:58 AM
Hi Doc et al;

Heat is not my interest but cooling is - it gets pretty hot here during the summer ;)

Otherwise, I don't have the adequate environment for H2 research so my votes go for 1 and perhaps 3:

1) Explore the decoupling of the output so we can get EI to do something like power itself.
...
3) Go back and explore the capacitor charging done in the beginning.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 25, 2008, 04:40:32 AM
Quote
@nickle989
What is happening to you transistors? Burning up?

&&Have you made any larger units? .. using a secondary amp or ?

What do you mean by larger? The SEC15-3 is capable of more, that is the missing parts on the board and it does better. But alas we need more feedback before we go there, one hell of a lot of boards in the 'World', I guess sitting on the mantle or coffee tables.

@DrStiffler ...

The transistors are burning up depending on how carried away I get ... sometimes I think they blow with some backfeed or instability of the tuning ... Stabalizing the circuit and keeping the temps down on the transistor has been a primary focus while trying different things.  Hold one of those SEC's for me for next week ...

Larger ... meaning more on the collective output even if the input needs to go up.  Would like to see some good steam production.  Winter's are darn cold here.  I would also like to start work on hydrogen side.  Seeing many practical usage areas.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 25, 2008, 07:49:18 AM

@Dear Freezer,

   Thanks for the information. I wonder how you add extra neons with capacitor plates to the SEC exciter? (I mean the connections)

   What sort of change do you observe when you connect additional neon to the SEC? Thanks..

 
 @Loki

     Are circular electrodes located inside the glass on the Xenon lamp?  If yes can you make similar electrode outside the glass and then connect it to the SEC3? I am willing to remove electrodes outside the glass and prevent electrode erosion problem.

 @All

      I am trying to figure out and understand underlying theory behind  ionization of gases via RF excitation. And how highly ionized gases turn to plasma state. I will check books and web for that.

     I think SEC 3 can be used to electrolyze water to generate HHO gas, and then used to ionize these gases to convert them to plasma state! Below picture is a combined electrolyzer and ionizer concept. Helix electrode may be double helix as well. Looking for your comments!



  
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on May 25, 2008, 11:31:13 PM
@Dear Freezer,

   Thanks for the information. I wonder how you add extra neons with capacitor plates to the SEC exciter? (I mean the connections)

   What sort of change do you observe when you connect additional neon to the SEC? Thanks..
 

All I'm doing is rerouting to another neon so I can test things on a protoboard, I'm really just trying to observe things and understand whats happening, so I can't really say what changes are going on, as I don't know.

@ All

I was giving the electrolysis a try, and wanted to know what this blue crap is?  I'm now afraid to drink my tap water.  :D  Maybe its normal, I have no clue..It only happens when that wire is touching the bowl, and is partially exposed to air.  I'm not sure what the bowl is made of.

(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6730/hho1tn4.jpg)

Edit:

I guess this was normal, I found this qoute on the web by "woelen"

The blue precipitate at the cathode can be explained easily. At the cathode, the following reaction occurs:

2H2O + 2e ---> 2OH(-) + H2

The 2e is coming from the cathode, delivered by the power supply. The hydroxide ions form a precipitate Cu(OH)2 with copper ions, already present in solution.

You use a very high voltage. If you lower the voltage, then I certainly expect less Cu(OH)2 to be formed and more Cu-metal.

Another thing is that it indeed is not very good to use CuCl2. It is much better to use CuSO4. CuCl2 forms many complex ions in solution, such as CuCl4(2-) and other less-chlorinated complex species (these complex ions make a solution of CuCl2 appear green instead of blue). These complex ions also makes things more difficult."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 25, 2008, 11:49:13 PM
All I'm doing is rerouting to another neon so I can test things on a protoboard, I'm really just trying to observe things and understand whats happening, so I can't really say what changes are going on, as I don't know.

@ All

I was giving the electrolysis a try, and wanted to know what this blue crap is?  I'm now afraid to drink my tap water.  :D  Maybe its normal, I have no clue..It only happens when that wire is touching the bowl, and is partially exposed to air.  I'm not sure what the bowl is made of.

(http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/6730/hho1tn4.jpg)

@Freezer
That blue 'crap' is Cu or copper from the wire. If you want to do this experiment you need SS. Now that green 'crap' would be chlorine, guess you don't have chlorine treatment of your water, or you are at the end of the line.

I can't remember where in the thread I posted the info, but "Fine" SS wire and a large SS bolt and nut for the other electrode. If you use other than SS and tap water you never know what will grow out of it.

Use only SS as I outlined and distilled water (lab grade deionized is best) to see what SEC will do. Tap water is a no-no.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on May 26, 2008, 12:08:18 AM
@Freezer
That blue 'crap' is Cu or copper from the wire. If you want to do this experiment you need SS. Now that green 'crap' would be chlorine, guess you don't have chlorine treatment of your water, or you are at the end of the line.

I can't remember where in the thread I posted the info, but "Fine" SS wire and a large SS bolt and nut for the other electrode. If you use other than SS and tap water you never know what will grow out of it.

Use only SS as I outlined and distilled water (lab grade deionized is best) to see what SEC will do. Tap water is a no-no.

Will do.  I was initially thinking it could be a reaction with some chemical additive they put in the water supply.  Never know what they are doing to the water. :s  Its interesting that this can take such a low current and still work..Ralph Ring was right in that brute force is the worst way to do things.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 26, 2008, 12:31:06 AM
@All,
When Dr. Stiffler said now the hard work was starting, he wasn't kidding. I have to solder up my integrated LPF with sensor amps and set the calibration resistor, wire the DAQ in, decouple everything again, and I'll be starting test and calibration runs. Wohoo! It won't be too long now! And then the hard hard work starts.  8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 26, 2008, 12:58:04 AM
@All,
When Dr. Stiffler said now the hard work was starting, he wasn't kidding. I have to solder up my integrated LPF with sensor amps and set the calibration resistor, wire the DAQ in, decouple everything again, and I'll be starting test and calibration runs. Wohoo! It won't be too long now! And then the hard hard work starts.  8)

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki
Now you have gone and done it  :'(

My, my what is going on here, having a little RF trouble ;D

Hey world, its easier to shield a 50W transmitter than a SEC, is that right Loki?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 26, 2008, 01:04:50 AM
Will do.  I was initially thinking it could be a reaction with some chemical additive they put in the water supply.  Never know what they are doing to the water. :s  Its interesting that this can take such a low current and still work..Ralph Ring was right in that brute force is the worst way to do things.
@Freezer
Brute force electrolysis is an ego or MAN thing, "My cell is bigger than yours" or "I have more plates than you" or "My cell heats the car while it burns out the alternator"

Guess I shall stop now as I most likely have made thousands of of brute force friends.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 26, 2008, 01:32:12 AM
@Dr Stiffler,
You sound almost diabolical, and at my pain no less. LOL I accept because I know you have suffered too!  ;D LOL Yes my early early attempts turn out to be some strange garbage. I'm not even going to show anybody.  :'(  But that is what this early testing is for. I'm going to have to fool around with placement and decoupling which is what is already taking place in the pictures, until I can get fairly quiet runs. I already added the shielding Aluminum skin as can be seen. It's a little tougher than I thought but not too terrible I don't think. It will come together. Yes I'd rather shield a high power transmitter but thats only because I've done it and I can use earth ground.  ;D The strategy now is to try for a star topology ground based on the supply negative rail and tie all shielding to it. This should work but how can I say that. I'm just starting to get comfortable with a chaotic bubble of excited lattice. Maybe I'm sadistic or perhaps I just hope someone else is paying attention and learns from it.

Best regards,

Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 26, 2008, 03:45:37 PM
@Dear Freezer,

   Thanks for the information. I wonder how you add extra neons with capacitor plates to the SEC exciter? (I mean the connections)

   What sort of change do you observe when you connect additional neon to the SEC? Thanks..

 
 @Loki

     Are circular electrodes located inside the glass on the Xenon lamp?   If yes can you make similar electrode outside the glass and then connect it to the SEC3? I am willing to remove electrodes outside the glass and prevent electrode erosion problem.

 @All

      I am trying to figure out and understand underlying theory behind  ionization of gases via RF excitation. And how highly ionized gases turn to plasma state. I will check books and web for that.

     I think SEC 3 can be used to electrolyze water to generate HHO gas, and then used to ionize these gases to convert them to plasma state! Below picture is a combined electrolyzer and ionizer concept. Helix electrode may be double helix as well. Looking for your comments!



  

@samedsoft
The Xenon tube has cylindrical electrodes. One is larger in diameter than the other. The work that I must complete for my own sanity, the calorimetry, is coming first. For those of us in the North, anyone in a cold climate, heat is an expensive commodity and cheap heat, or free heat, would make a huge difference in many many lives. I won't be jumping around onto side tracks but please let us know if you do. I have enough on my plate for right now and attention to details is the phrase of the day for me.

@All,
RF troubles? No I have plenty of RF, and it's everywhere!  :-* I suggest you folks build a few of the Doc's probes, if you haven't already, and take a peek at all of the nodes right back to your power supply. You may or may not see interesting things.  ;D The IA handbooks I have say decouple everything. Yes, I have to agree. I will post the schematic of my sensing and LPF as soon as I prove it works, for those interested. It's just a twist on what Dr. Stiffler has posted and I have been using. I told you accurate measurement was interesting. Stay tuned!  ;D

Best regards,

Jim   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on May 26, 2008, 04:09:20 PM
I'm just starting to get comfortable with a chaotic bubble of excited lattice. Maybe I'm sadistic or perhaps I just hope someone else is paying attention and learns from it.

Best regards,

Jim 

Quote from the X-Files,

"Someone's always paying attention Agent Mulder."

Maybe down the line we can draw up a visual of this, "bubble of excitation."
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 26, 2008, 05:48:52 PM
*Removed, no longer valid* by DrStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 26, 2008, 10:03:01 PM
*Removed, no longer valid* by DrStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 28, 2008, 12:46:44 AM
@All,
My twists on an LPF. I have added sensing resistors to the mix plus a Current Sense Amp, an Instrumentation Amp, and a High Side Power Sensor. Now I'm working on the bias component calculations and noise reduction / decoupling. We shall see  ::) Thank God for hot air gear because soldering anything smaller than this is impossible without it, or maybe I'm just getting old.  ;D

More to follow.  8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 28, 2008, 02:07:32 AM
Quote from the X-Files,

"Someone's always paying attention Agent Mulder."

Maybe down the line we can draw up a visual of this, "bubble of excitation."

@Freezer,
Yes on both points.  ;) Dr. Stiffler has said we can use an AV plug based probe and explore the field so perhaps we can start with that.  :-\ I like visuals allot.  ;D It gets the right side of the grey matter cranking with the left side and fosters great insight sometimes at the cost of foolishness.  :-[ I guess we can just say the center of the SEC3 PCB is the origin and attempt a mapping with a probe. Cool idea. I remember hearing Dr. Stiffler mention it and did some limited work when I was running the VLT boards but it is due for revisiting. Let me get these heat runs going and then I'll have long periods of "wait" time for more exploration. Take a peek and see what you can see if your so inclined. It will be interesting to see changes, if we can, in the bubble and try to tie cause and effect together.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on May 28, 2008, 03:53:43 PM
@Freezer,
Yes on both points.  ;) Dr. Stiffler has said we can use an AV plug based probe and explore the field so perhaps we can start with that.  :-\ I like visuals allot.
Best regards,
Jim

I understand a lot better when things are in a visual form as well, I think its a type of univeral language.  You can also hook a simple multimeter to the av probe as well, not for actual measurements but just as a indicator.

I know you guys are way past driving the fan but I just wanted to add to the pot.  Here's a small video. I don't have a decoupling circuit yet, and can't take any kind of measurements, also my power supply is crude so I can read anything under 100mAs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4xdtiQj60

I know its hard to see so I took an image as well.  Click on the thumbnail to view.
(http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1542/sec02jd1.th.jpg) (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec02jd1.jpg)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 28, 2008, 04:28:58 PM
I understand a lot better when things are in a visual form as well, I think its a type of univeral language.  You can also hook a simple multimeter to the av probe as well, not for actual measurements but just as a indicator.

I know you guys are way past driving the fan but I just wanted to add to the pot.  Here's a small video. I don't have a decoupling circuit yet, and can't take any kind of measurements, also my power supply is crude so I can read anything under 100mAs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q4xdtiQj60

I know its hard to see so I took an image as well.  Click on the thumbnail to view.
(http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/1542/sec02jd1.th.jpg) (http://img79.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sec02jd1.jpg)
@Freezer

Great work and wow! what a nice video, have to take mine up a beg or two, maybe Classical for background for me  ;)

I tried adding something here that everyone would be interested in and it came out garbage, so I need to go back and see how to get the formula pasted in here.

Anyway great job.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 28, 2008, 04:43:28 PM
@ALL
Okay - think I got it.

So how do you know or how do you calculate what a particular SEC Exciter can do as far as gain. With gain being the excess energy you can obtain from the lattice under my theory. Well here is the formula that will make many cringe and some suffer sleepless nights because they will shout how ridicules it is, yet it has been shown accurate from the empirical data.

What the formula states is what appears to be the maximum gain based upon the variables involved and is an idealized number. Poor construction of the exciter, meaning resistances like in to small a wire in coils, running at higher voltages than required, external capacitive coupling and all the other things that degrade an RF system. But! it does at least provide a number to shoot for and allow you to know when you are there so you can move on.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on May 28, 2008, 07:38:35 PM
@Dear Freezer

   Could you please indicate the current SEC consumes with the Fan disconnected? Also secondary neon disconnected as well?

   Best Regards to all
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on May 28, 2008, 08:08:09 PM
The powerconsumption of a fan goes with the
square of the rpms.
Brushless fans start to run (at least)with a third of the nominal
voltage (dc) and need then only 10% of the nominal
rated power.
Running fan from SEC - measuring rpm - then run the
same fan from a regulated dc power supply - and adjust
voltage for same rpm - then you can compare the consumption.
that would be a nice video.
rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 29, 2008, 12:21:48 AM
@All,
My twists on an LPF. I have added sensing resistors to the mix plus a Current Sense Amp, an Instrumentation Amp, and a High Side Power Sensor. Now I'm working on the bias component calculations and noise reduction / decoupling. We shall see  ::) Thank God for hot air gear because soldering anything smaller than this is impossible without it, or maybe I'm just getting old.  ;D

More to follow.  8)

Best regards,

Jim

@All,
She looks a little better than yesterday with the additional work. It functions on the bench OK so lets see what it does running and sensing a SEC exciter! One of the troubles I had with the RF was a sensing amp outputting anomalous DC sensing signal that was a result of common mode offset. Hopefully I've cured that but we shall see. The hard work indeed! I haven't even got to the point of trying to keep the SEC tuned for calibration and then a real run. I'm counting on my SEC-3's to have much greater stability than the hacks I've built to date.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 29, 2008, 01:19:03 AM
Hi all,

I connected Dr. Stiffler's SEC to an Ironhead HHO test Cell which I had built last summer. It has one center negative plate and on each end there is a positive plate and in between each positive and negative center there are 8 neutral plates on each side. All plates are stainless and are spaced 1/8 th of an inch center. Please note that in the video I say 1/16 th of an inch which is not correct, it's 1/8".  The size of the plates are 2 inches square. This is the first time I was able to get HHO gas production from pure distilled water (no electrolite added)

Here is a youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5y2dzXdGho

Thank you Dr. Stiffler for sharing.

Added: I forgot to mention that the core in my tuning coils is cracked so it's stuck and I can't tune for best efficiency.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 29, 2008, 01:39:52 AM
Hi all,

I connected Dr. Stiffler's SEC to an Ironhead HHO test Cell which I had built last summer. It has one center negative plate and on each end there is a positive plate and in between each positive and negative center there are 8 neutral plates on each side. All plates are stainless and are spaced 1/8 th of an inch center. Please note that in the video I say 1/16 th of an inch which is not correct, it's 1/8".  The size of the plates are 2 inches square. This is the first time I was able to get HHO gas production from pure distilled water (no electrolite added)

Here is a youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5y2dzXdGho

Thank you Dr. Stiffler for sharing.

Luc
@gotoluc
Thank you for the great video and the credit, you blew away my next video though. I was going to show a cell with one electrode composed of two wire about human hair in diameter and 2mm long. The other electrode was an insulated SS wire. As in my last video it only produces H2 and very, very little O2 and only through microscopic leaks in the insulation.

Anyway I am very surprised by the amount of gas you are getting, this is great indeed and can be seen very clearly. If you had access to a spectrum analyzer and tuned fp' to as close to 13.6Mhz you would see increased production, although you my not be able to tune here as I have no knowledge on what this big a load would do to the Exciter dynamics. Know anyone close to you that has a SEC15-3 with parasitic plate?, if so try it on your cell, it should really show a difference.

Thank you for the great and productive work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on May 29, 2008, 02:11:01 AM
*Removed*

This post was removed by the Moderator because it does not pertain to the
subject and intent of this thread -or- the poster is provoking the members with
one or more of the following; accusation, innuendo, argument, rudeness or
vulgarity.

DrStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: argona369 on May 29, 2008, 02:17:11 AM
H2 only?
 a very interesting experiment.
A dielectric coated SS wire for one of the electrodes , ie a capacitor
which inverts polarity?
Does that effect (help) H2 production efficiency?
Is there any other experiments that you know about that just produces
Hydrogen?

Cliff,

@gotoluc
Thank you for the great video and the credit, you blew away my next video though. I was going to show a cell with one electrode composed of two wire about human hair in diameter and 2mm long. The other electrode was an insulated SS wire. As in my last video it only produces H2 and very, very little O2 and only through microscopic leaks in the insulation.

Anyway I am very surprised by the amount of gas you are getting, this is great indeed and can be seen very clearly. If you had access to a spectrum analyzer and tuned fp' to as close to 13.6Mhz you would see increased production, although you my not be able to tune here as I have no knowledge on what this big a load would do to the Exciter dynamics. Know anyone close to you that has a SEC15-3 with parasitic plate?, if so try it on your cell, it should really show a difference.

Thank you for the great and productive work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 29, 2008, 02:18:45 AM
Hi all,

I connected Dr. Stiffler's SEC to an Ironhead HHO test Cell which I had built last summer. It has one center negative plate and on each end there is a positive plate and in between each positive and negative center there are 8 neutral plates on each side. All plates are stainless and are spaced 1/8 th of an inch center. Please note that in the video I say 1/16 th of an inch which is not correct, it's 1/8".  The size of the plates are 2 inches square. This is the first time I was able to get HHO gas production from pure distilled water (no electrolite added)

Here is a youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5y2dzXdGho

Thank you Dr. Stiffler for sharing.

Added: I forgot to mention that the core in my tuning coils is cracked so it's stuck and I can't tune for best efficiency.

Luc

@gotoluc,
Excellent work! Not even able to adjust and very impressive gas production. Very nice job. I think I would replace that coil and then work on the broken core if its stuck good. Avoid causing any additional damage that way or at least keep it to a minimum.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 29, 2008, 02:20:53 AM
@the mighty Stiffler
I find it very hard to understand something as a whole when I don't understand its parts. Namely the mysterious AV plug (I'm assuming this is where it all started for you). As far as I can understand it a alternating HF voltage is vibrating across the plug - much like an inductor in series with a capacitor with HV on either end. When the cap breaks down you get a damped sinewave alternating voltage. Is this the same kind of thing  happening in the plug? If so I'm assuming you could drive one of these bad boys with a static influence machine - providing each pulse was a constant voltage and at a high enough frequency so as to nullify the damping effect between each pulse lost to the inductor.
Either way is there any documentation on JUST the AV plug you could throw up on your website??? This would be much0s appreciated by all!!!
@scraven
Because of your derogatory address of me, I will only say do a web search for "avramenko av plug" and you should find plenty to occupy yourself.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 29, 2008, 02:24:31 AM
Hi all,

I connected Dr. Stiffler's SEC to an Ironhead HHO test Cell which I had built last summer. It has one center negative plate and on each end there is a positive plate and in between each positive and negative center there are 8 neutral plates on each side. All plates are stainless and are spaced 1/8 th of an inch center. Please note that in the video I say 1/16 th of an inch which is not correct, it's 1/8".  The size of the plates are 2 inches square. This is the first time I was able to get HHO gas production from pure distilled water (no electrolite added)

Here is a youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5y2dzXdGho

Thank you Dr. Stiffler for sharing.

Added: I forgot to mention that the core in my tuning coils is cracked so it's stuck and I can't tune for best efficiency.

Luc
@gotoluc
Send me a private email and I will try to mail you another core or coil, which ever might be best.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 29, 2008, 02:40:12 AM
@Dr.Stiffler
LOL - its was a compliment of the highest degree!!!!
I cant find any translations of AV's work. Only interpretations by Frovlov and thats as good as it gets. Is this all you had to go on??? I think the subject needs a little more attention that a brush off!
@scraven
"A brush off?" Do your home work, there is plenty of information available and I am not about to do the work for you.

Unless you have positive contributions to this thread they will not be welcome or tolerated, so please change you agenda which is vary obvious.

Thank you for you future compliance.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 29, 2008, 02:44:31 AM
@gotoluc
Send me a private email and I will try to mail you another core or coil, which ever might be best.

Thanks Dr. I just sent you a PM. Did you receive it?

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 29, 2008, 04:54:08 AM
@gotoluc .... you beat me to it ... I am waiting for my board .... take a look at the Bob Boyce design but use the Dr's power.  I believe that a greater production can be achieved by syncing the frequency to the plate spacing, it is not key to using Bob's frequency's as much as it is bringing the cell into resonance, one of my ideas was to tune each SS plate to the same frequency by anealing, started this but it takes forever maybe now I will have to complete at least 7 plates ... plate area is also one of the keys in HHO production at least what I have seen in my tests.  I think that Dr. Stiffler's SEC is also creating an envelope of harmonic frequencies but without a spectrum analyzer I think it would be pretty hard to detect.  When using distilled water you are creating an almost capacitor ( I am putting that there as some may not know this) but when using an electrolite the capacitor effect would diminish.  I believe that is why your voltage is on the rise.  What did the voltage start with?  You may see better results if you move the power leads to the outside of the cell ... you will need to recondition the plates though before you will see the results as they are aligned atomically different right now.

Nice work!

If you have a small toy hydrogen cell see what kind of power you get back.  That would be courious endever.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 29, 2008, 06:16:49 AM
@gotoluc .... you beat me to it ... I am waiting for my board .... take a look at the Bob Boyce design but use the Dr's power.  I believe that a greater production can be achieved by syncing the frequency to the plate spacing, it is not key to using Bob's frequency's as much as it is bringing the cell into resonance, one of my ideas was to tune each SS plate to the same frequency by anealing, started this but it takes forever maybe now I will have to complete at least 7 plates ... plate area is also one of the keys in HHO production at least what I have seen in my tests.  I think that Dr. Stiffler's SEC is also creating an envelope of harmonic frequencies but without a spectrum analyzer I think it would be pretty hard to detect.  When using distilled water you are creating an almost capacitor ( I am putting that there as some may not know this) but when using an electrolite the capacitor effect would diminish.  I believe that is why your voltage is on the rise.  What did the voltage start with?  You may see better results if you move the power leads to the outside of the cell ... you will need to recondition the plates though before you will see the results as they are aligned atomically different right now.

Nice work!

If you have a small toy hydrogen cell see what kind of power you get back.  That would be courious endever.

Thanks nickle989.
You are exactly right about the use of electrolite with this kind of energy. When my cell reached 80 volts on just pure distilled water I added a tad of baking soda just to see what would happen. The voltage dropped to about 40 volts and it all just seem to slow down production. Also the battery effect went down much faster when I cut the power, So for all of you out there wanting to get closer to the real way to break the bonds of H2O this I think is a better route to take. I myself never persued brute force HHO after testing since I felt it was not the correct way.

I also think that resonance will be a key factor in a productive HHO cell.  However I fell to achieve that we will have to use a more natural geometry,  maybe like a sphere shape container with a centerred resonating anode, more like the Keely stuff.

Anyway, I hope we can all work on this soon, since gas is killing ALL in more ways than one.

My vote to the Dr. would be 50% HHO and 50% heat since heat is also killing our pocket books for us in Canada.

Luc

Added: here is a link to a video of what I believe to be a real working model: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxnEQssJ4FQ
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 29, 2008, 01:34:51 PM
@All,
She looks a little better than yesterday with the additional work. It functions on the bench OK so lets see what it does running and sensing a SEC exciter! One of the troubles I had with the RF was a sensing amp outputting anomalous DC sensing signal that was a result of common mode offset. Hopefully I've cured that but we shall see. The hard work indeed! I haven't even got to the point of trying to keep the SEC tuned for calibration and then a real run. I'm counting on my SEC-3's to have much greater stability than the hacks I've built to date.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim


@All,
Not only does she look better, she works like a charm too. It appears that I will now be able to make direct power input measurements and just display it on a running graph. So for further testing I will not be sticking any meters into my circuits aside from this sensing device at the LPF. No long probe leads involved.  I seem to remember being told that too!  RF probing has apparently shown the LPF to be very effective. I'm going to tweak the sensing resistor values and get a little closer to the center of the full scale sensing input range to minimize Pout error which by the way is fairly low to begin with, less than -1.0% when Vsense set at the correct point. This is coming together very nicely indeed!  ;D Much more to come. The IC being utilized for this, right now, is a MAX4210B if anyone is interested and this will obviously be an input channel to the DAQ. There is also a MAX4211B on that board but I might not need it. This is all good until I figure out how I'm lying to myself, or what I've missed, if I am missing something.   ;D

Have a great day and Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 29, 2008, 01:59:05 PM
Quote
I added a tad of baking soda just to see what would happen
I would not use baking for a prolonged period of time as it produces a harmful gas.

How long did it take for the voltage to rise to 80volts? How far can it climb?  If you bring the plates closer together it should rise very fast ... but even with them apart at 1/8 it will just take a bit longer but have a slower prolonged time of energy release.

I have always maintained that the higher voltage/low amperage is the way the to go as I think of the unique qualities that it has when breaking atomic bonds ... however everyone is dead set against it ... one of its by products can create d2o ... high voltage safety factors etc ... I say let the tester beware.  At the same time of reaching a higher voltage avoiding the corona to avoid the destruction of the newly seperated hho ... making a jump higher should be able to create an atomic level vacuum in that moment of time/space ... might even see a very dim glow in between the plates.  Once at that stage one will reach the best level of production.

It is easier to get high voltage with less amps in nature.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: storre on May 29, 2008, 02:18:07 PM
Hi Bill,
I still needed power input from my signal generator,
but as I could only go up to 3 Mhz, this resonant point there
was not yet the best one.
Probably there will be a better one at around 10 to 20 Mhz,
where I would not have needed a ground wire to the metal mesh.

I'm on page 8 of this crazy thread and relieved the show of egos is over and praying it's not the reason it has another 43 to go!

Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of reference to frequency generators, scopes etc and thought it was time I got more equipment expecially equipment that would be necessary for this replication. Did a quick ebay search and found this which seems to have what I need http://cgi.ebay.com/20-MHZ-FUNCTION-GENERATOR-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-ZAPPER_W0QQitemZ280229778743QQihZ018QQcategoryZ97196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm wondering what dr. stiffler would recommend as basic equipment needed to work with this replication.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 29, 2008, 03:01:30 PM
I'm on page 8 of this crazy thread and relieved the show of egos is over and praying it's not the reason it has another 43 to go!

Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of reference to frequency generators, scopes etc and thought it was time I got more equipment expecially equipment that would be necessary for this replication. Did a quick ebay search and found this which seems to have what I need http://cgi.ebay.com/20-MHZ-FUNCTION-GENERATOR-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-ZAPPER_W0QQitemZ280229778743QQihZ018QQcategoryZ97196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm wondering what dr. stiffler would recommend as basic equipment needed to work with this replication.
@storre

I will try to answer your question as I think most would that are working with SEC Exciters.

Even with top of the line TE (test equipment) you will have a problem seeing enough to understand what is going on and what affects what. Normally you would hang a fair quality meter on the power input lines prior to a LPF between the supply and the unit and then start to explore the various points within the circuit with a scope.

Well sounds good, but don't work well. You have an area where it seems that no matter what you do, you can not get rid of the RF. Think you have good LPF and still see (may be a scope artifact) RF all over the place where it should not be.

Probing with a scope or meter changes the circuit dynamics so what you see is not what you want to see. Kind of like you change it when you look at it (heard that before?)

DVM's and DMM are not to good and old style analog meters cause problems in big ways. For the most part you measure a SEC Exciter from a distant point, like heat or light output and look at the frequency domain rather than the time domain.

Now because I have not helped a bit, bottom line is a good DMM like 1% or better accuracy and you can get some good meters for under $100, I for some reason like the ExTech stuff if you don't get the bottom end.

A scope to >100Mhz, dual trace with cursors, the more bells and whistles the better, but the price goes up. 10:1 probes minimum and at least one 100:1. If you have the money a Spectrum Analyzer, around $2K for one to do a fair job. You do not need one, but it sure helps.

Lets hope others jump in here and offer help to, that way you can get a feel for how others are looking at these circuits.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: storre on May 29, 2008, 04:28:35 PM
Thank you Dr. S :)

?and this function generator i found on ebay? It's necessary and has the necessary range and features or does it need to be battery operated only?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 29, 2008, 04:40:33 PM
Thank you Dr. S :)

?and this function generator i found on ebay? It's necessary and has the necessary range and features or does it need to be battery operated only?
@storre
I don't know why you would need a function generator at all unless you wanted to start at the beginning. There is so much mis-information about a capacitive feedback from the circuit to the generator that driving with a generator was discontinued. In addition when a generator is used to drive the unit you will not get the same output in bandwidth that you will with a free running Exciter. Most free running SEC Exciters will have a minimum of 300Mhz where when generator driven you will obtain a small number of harmonics of the driver signal.

I would not today, with the current state of SEC exciters advise anyone to buy a generator to do research on them. So save your money here and use free runners like what I have designed which is a very broadband oscillator similar in design to a Clapp Oscillator, not the Colpitts as some have stated.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 29, 2008, 06:02:54 PM
I would not use baking for a prolonged period of time as it produces a harmful gas.

How long did it take for the voltage to rise to 80volts? How far can it climb?  If you bring the plates closer together it should rise very fast ... but even with them apart at 1/8 it will just take a bit longer but have a slower prolonged time of energy release.
@nickle989,
The baking soda test lasted about 3 minutes, that is how quick it went down hill (negative results) I had the cell shelved for over 10 month and I did not condition it prior to starting it, I just added the distilled water and let it run, so it was maybe around 2 hours of running when I shot the video and about 4 hours when it reached 80 volts. After the baking soda test I flushed it out and added fresh distilled water and it started right away at 70 volts as appose to 35 volts when I fist pulled it off the shelf. I left it overnight and it was at 94 volts in the morning. I touch the top of the cell to see if the water had any heat and the water was cold. Just the touching of the cell instantly dropped the voltage down to 83 volts and after even 1 hour it is not going back up, it's actually now at 80 volts. That goes to show (I think) that any contaminants in the water will have a negative effect.

I can't reduce the spacing of the cell plates without building a new holder for it. What would be your guess on the ideal spacing between plates with a serfaces area of 2" square? and in what configuration do you think the plates would be best in? like +,N,- or +,-,+,- or +,N,-,N,+ etc.

Added: I forgot to mention that the current draw goes down as the cell voltage goes up. It is now around 50 ma at 80 volts (if my meter works on this) and should have been lower when it reached 94 volts but I did not check it at the time.


Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 29, 2008, 06:42:15 PM
Now this is interesting. I just flushed the cell and let it dry, I added fresh distilled water and the voltage across the cell is at 12 volts with no power going to the cell :o. I connected a LED to it and it lit bright and volts dropped to about 2.5 volts and came back up to 10 volts when I unplugged it.

That is also a first for me.

I'll have to see tonight if it glows in the dark ;).

Luc

Added: this link was just sent to me and maybe of interest to some: http://www.blacklightpower.com/
Small video presentation: http://www.blacklightpower.com/AVI/BlackLight%20Power%20-%20Lunch%20Presentation.wmv
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 29, 2008, 07:32:27 PM
Now this is interesting. I just flushed the cell and let it dry, I added fresh distilled water and the voltage across the cell is at 12 volts with no power going to the cell :o. I connected a LED to it and it lit bright and volts dropped to about 2.5 volts and came back up to 10 volts when I unplugged it.

That is also a first for me.

I'll have to see tonight if it glows in the dark ;).

Luc

Added: this link was just sent to me and maybe of interest to some: http://www.blacklightpower.com/
Small video presentation: http://www.blacklightpower.com/AVI/BlackLight%20Power%20-%20Lunch%20Presentation.wmv
@gotoluc
Interesting. How far was your water supply from the running cell over the extended period?

Was the water stored in glass, plastic or tin?

Do you know if the water was deionized?

Thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on May 29, 2008, 08:43:52 PM
Now this is interesting. I just flushed the cell and let it dry, I added fresh distilled water and the voltage across the cell is at 12 volts with no power going to the cell :o. I connected a LED to it and it lit bright and volts dropped to about 2.5 volts and came back up to 10 volts when I unplugged it.

That is also a first for me.

I'll have to see tonight if it glows in the dark ;).

Luc


Hi Luc,
your plates still have storred H3O+ and
OH- ions inside the metal molecule lattices,
so the plates are still charged..

You can do this much better with graphite plates,
as these store still a much bigger amout of gas-ions
in their lattice.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on May 29, 2008, 08:49:05 PM
Stephan do you have a link for this Graphite?  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 29, 2008, 09:12:25 PM
@gotoluc
Interesting. How far was your water supply from the running cell over the extended period?

Was the water stored in glass, plastic or tin?

Do you know if the water was deionized?

Thanks
I disconnected the cell and went to the sink to rinse it under tap water and let it dip dry over new paper towel to absorb the water, once it was mostly dry I filled it back with the distilled water (which is deionized) and connected it back. In that space of time I would say about 10 to 15 minutes would of past.

The distilled water is from a plastic bottle.

Added: My voltage is now back up to 92 volts

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 29, 2008, 09:18:51 PM
Stephan do you have a link for this Graphite?  Chet

I saw a while back some being sold on ebay for an HHO cell. I contacted a guy that actually bought some to build a cell with it and never checked back to see how it turned out. I don't think though that he was using this kind of power though.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: powercat on May 29, 2008, 09:32:37 PM
Now this is interesting. I just flushed the cell and let it dry, I added fresh distilled water and the voltage across the cell is at 12 volts with no power going to the cell :o. I connected a LED to it and it lit bright and volts dropped to about 2.5 volts and came back up to 10 volts when I unplugged it.

That is also a first for me.

I'll have to see tonight if it glows in the dark ;).

Luc

Added: this link was just sent to me and maybe of interest to some: http://www.blacklightpower.com/
Small video presentation: http://www.blacklightpower.com/AVI/BlackLight%20Power%20-%20Lunch%20Presentation.wmv



@gotoluc
Very Interesting video he seems to claim OU                                                                                                                                                 
anymore information

keep up the great work

pc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 29, 2008, 09:36:25 PM
Hi Luc,
your plates still have storred H3O+ and
OH- ions inside the metal molecule lattices,
so the plates are still charged..

You can do this much better with graphite plates,
as these store still a much bigger amout of gas-ions
in their lattice.

Regards, Stefan.
@Stefan
So what you are saying, has he got a 'Joe Cell' running here, via the stainless? Maybe I was thinking wrong. I was looking back to the water charging we did, humm...

Okay, sound good, but still very, very interesting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on May 29, 2008, 09:48:12 PM
BTW:

using "jamming" broadband waveform for electrolysis
is awesome. I really love that.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 29, 2008, 09:53:41 PM
Thanks nickle989.
I also think that resonance will be a key factor in a productive HHO cell.  However I fell to achieve that we will have to use a more natural geometry,  maybe like a sphere shape container with a centerred resonating anode, more like the Keely stuff.

Luc
Added: here is a link to a video of what I believe to be a real working model: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxnEQssJ4FQ
Hi all,

I was looking on ebay for those graphite cells plates that I saw a while back and look what I found: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Moe-Joe-Cell-HHO-HYDROGEN-GENERATOR-free-energy_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33609QQihZ004QQitemZ140236555418QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW  They are called Moe Joe cell and they are stainless spheres just like I mentioned above. I did not know about these till now, I think it would be worth it to look into this and mostly try it with the Dr.'s circuit.

The ebay page has links to video's also.

I think you may want to get a set of these Doc.

Added: this is another one to look into, ebay seller claims Production has been recorded at 1 litre per minute with no electrolyte or caustic in the water, at 2 amps 12 v DC His link: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=260244422631&rd=1

This could be considering to geometry of the cell.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 30, 2008, 12:27:39 AM
Quote
Hi Luc,
your plates still have storred H3O+ and
OH- ions inside the metal molecule lattices,
so the plates are still charged..

You can do this much better with graphite plates,
as these store still a much bigger amout of gas-ions
in their lattice.

Regards, Stefan.

@Stefan
So what you are saying, has he got a 'Joe Cell' running here, via the stainless? Maybe I was thinking wrong. I was looking back to the water charging we did, humm...

Okay, sound good, but still very, very interesting.

The Joe cell, in my opinion is not as true as what Joe says.  The plates/water are holding a charge just like a capacitor will ... when pulse discharged between the freq's coming in should be able to start a chain ... to store H3O+ one would need something better then SS at least I can't see it ..
@gotoluc - what is the SS 304 - 316 ? low carb etc
a high nickel content would provide nice reactions or platnium coated ...

A while back some lab was creating hho with a gamma ray and self ignititing it, they had to mess with the freq's though to do it.  Way to much power being used to make it sustainable but nice insite.  I can see the SEC being able to go a better route. 

@Dr. Stiffler ... do you have any spectrum analysis charts that you could share?   

@gotoluc ... if you have some SS tubes or just some SS bowls from the dollar store try it out just to see on the shape's relationship with the SEC
On the plate arangement use the BB series design just a lead on one plate end and the other on the other end plate ( + p p p p p p p p p -)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 30, 2008, 01:04:25 AM
The Joe cell, in my opinion is not as true as what Joe says.  The plates/water are holding a charge just like a capacitor will ... when pulse discharged between the freq's coming in should be able to start a chain ... to store H3O+ one would need something better then SS at least I can't see it ..
@gotoluc - what is the SS 304 - 316 ? low carb etc
a high nickel content would provide nice reactions or platnium coated ...

A while back some lab was creating hho with a gamma ray and self ignititing it, they had to mess with the freq's though to do it.  Way to much power being used to make it sustainable but nice insite.  I can see the SEC being able to go a better route. 

@Dr. Stiffler ... do you have any spectrum analysis charts that you could share?   

@gotoluc ... if you have some SS tubes or just some SS bowls from the dollar store try it out just to see on the shape's relationship with the SEC
On the plate arangement use the BB series design just a lead on one plate end and the other on the other end plate ( + p p p p p p p p p -)

@nickle989
Spectral Diagram, yes, but for what combination of settings? See there are three major things that affect the bandwidth and the fundamental fp'. These three things are; 1) the base cap and coil 2) the supply voltage 3) the load. In an ideal system a change in load or supply voltage can be offset by adjustment of the base coil, also leaving the base coil in a set position and changing the supply voltage will shift fp' and increase or decrease the overall bandwidth.

Because of these conditions and interactions it would be very hard to say or set a specific set of conditions in an experimental unit. I resort to using an SA. When a variable is changed the result is readily seen and adjustment can be made to bring it back to a desired state.

If you have received your board you have a link to a (.pdf) that show a sample SA representation.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 30, 2008, 01:18:53 AM
@gotoluc
Did you disconnect the 22uH choke just after the neon points from which you are pulling the drive? If you have or have not of course would affect how much energy you have to work with. Because the LEDs and neon seem extinguished I am assuming you did the disconnect. Have you considered adding the paracitic plate to increase the drive.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on May 30, 2008, 01:44:59 AM
Quote
@nickle989
Spectral Diagram, yes, but for what combination of settings? See there are three major things that affect the bandwidth and the fundamental fp'. These three things are; 1) the base cap and coil 2) the supply voltage 3) the load. In an ideal system a change in load or supply voltage can be offset by adjustment of the base coil, also leaving the base coil in a set position and changing the supply voltage will shift fp' and increase or decrease the overall bandwidth.

Because of these conditions and interactions it would be very hard to say or set a specific set of conditions in an experimental unit. I resort to using an SA. When a variable is changed the result is readily seen and adjustment can be made to bring it back to a desired state.

On my Frankenstein unit I have played with all what you mentioned but I have seen some comminality in the freq/waveform capatured to when the unit is working at its best. Wondering if you have seen any cominatlity with the SA.  Interesting on the 990 AM band and not being able to keep the rf from escaping a cage .. almost like a caduceus coil. 

Board should be here soon. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 30, 2008, 03:14:32 AM
I'm on page 8 of this crazy thread and relieved the show of egos is over and praying it's not the reason it has another 43 to go!

Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of reference to frequency generators, scopes etc and thought it was time I got more equipment expecially equipment that would be necessary for this replication. Did a quick ebay search and found this which seems to have what I need http://cgi.ebay.com/20-MHZ-FUNCTION-GENERATOR-FREQUENCY-COUNTER-ZAPPER_W0QQitemZ280229778743QQihZ018QQcategoryZ97196QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'm wondering what dr. stiffler would recommend as basic equipment needed to work with this replication.

@storre,
Here is a quick shot of, in my opinion, an equipment list that comes in very handy when I'm working with SEC:

1. A spectrum analyzer and the absolutely best one you can get your hands on, Not necessarily the newest but markers and math functions would be sweet This will cost big bucks and is a wish for me. I don't have one of this caliber but from time to time I can use them. I have a lower end device with about 1GHz bandwidth and very little functionality aside from rough spectrum display. It does some of what is needed.
2. A relatively high speed DAQ with current sensing modules/capability, voltage sensing modules/capability, temperature sensing modules/capability.
3. A solid voltage and current regulated multiple output variable power supply with a range of at least 0 to 40 VDC plus complete supply line isolation and able to deliver at least 500ma per output, 1000ma is better.
4. A good LCR meter for component identification and testing/qualification.
5. A good, 2 is better, laboratory DMM with transistor HFE testing capability, high sensitivity in the current, voltage, and resistance functions.
6. An Oscilloscope at least 2 channels preferrably 4, at least 100 MHZ preferrably 200 MHz, Digital storage and recall/display is sweet as are math functions. Probes need to be 10:1 and preferably at least 1 of them 100:1 and I could see myself using 2, 100:1 probes. Don't skimp on your probes.
6. All of the general purpose electronics hand tools and soldering gear.

I've definitely crossed the Basic line long ago! Sorry!  ;)

I will have to say that the funniest part about that insane list of "basic" equipment I just spewed forth is that the vast majority of it gets used in support of "building" the devices and "setup" of the devices but actual running is very non-equipment intensive. Power supply and a few diddle sticks with a pair of good DMM's and the Doc's probes. What we think is sound exploration of this is unfortunately not cheap but it might not hurt to just freely explore too with a minimum of gear using breadboard! Definitely get a large breadboard, preferrably 3 with the aluminum backing plate. I have alot of time and experience using the above equipment but I'm not sure how "blind" my classical electrical training and experience leaves me. I believe my attitude and open mindedness are the most important driving tools and the rest I just figure out if they can provide a sound answer to the questions that arise. I hope my babble helps some!

Best regards,

Jim

Oh yea, just start gathering components and materials. You'll need them.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 30, 2008, 05:08:48 AM
@gotoluc
Did you disconnect the 22uH choke just after the neon points from which you are pulling the drive? If you have or have not of course would affect how much energy you have to work with. Because the LEDs and neon seem extinguished I am assuming you did the disconnect. Have you considered adding the paracitic plate to increase the drive.

Yes I did disconnect the 22uH choke after the first position neon and also the first row LED at the left side. I did try the parasitic thing and add a thin plate of steel under the board with an insulator between it and a 47pf cap soldered between the sheet and the exit end of the 22uH choke which is lifted off the board to stop the feed to the other components (as mention above)  however I did not notice any difference but keep in mind my tuning coil is broken (stuck) and one other thing is the sheet of steel I tried was about twice the size of the board, would it make a difference if the sheet was bigger than the board? or is it the exit end of the choke needs to be also connected to the board?

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 30, 2008, 06:36:54 AM
I just got back home at 11:45pm. I had the cell working all day. It is up to 98 volts now and drawing 40ma. If I disconnect the feed to the cell and measure just the voltage comming from the SEC circuit it is 137 volts and draws 23ma with no load. However something has changed during the all day run, the bubbles now seem to be finer or is there less, or are they just taking less room ???. I had kind of noticed that when I flushed it out and refiled it with fresh distilled water earlier today and posted about the battery effect. The other thing I noticed is there is heat, not much mind you but the water is not cold. However I did place the lid of the container over it but not tight though, just to keep airborn impurities out, so maybe that is what is keeping in the little bit of heat.

There is one thing I did not mention yet, I have the ground of the house connected to the negative side of the cell. I just disconnected it and the cell seems to do the same just the voltage across the cell drops by 5 volts. If I connect it to the positive side the voltage rises by 5.3 volts. So either side it does not seem to have a visual change to the gas production, only the cell voltage.

I now have a better dv video canera with a firewire cable so I'll do a better quality video of the battery effect tomorrow and hopefully a cleaner view of the gas production.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 30, 2008, 01:40:54 PM
I just got back home at 11:45pm. I had the cell working all day. It is up to 98 volts now and drawing 40ma. If I disconnect the feed to the cell and measure just the voltage comming from the SEC circuit it is 137 volts and draws 23ma with no load. However something has changed during the all day run, the bubbles now seem to be finer or is there less, or are they just taking less room ???. I had kind of noticed that when I flushed it out and refiled it with fresh distilled water earlier today and posted about the battery effect. The other thing I noticed is there is heat, not much mind you but the water is not cold. However I did place the lid of the container over it but not tight though, just to keep airborn impurities out, so maybe that is what is keeping in the little bit of heat.

There is one thing I did not mention yet, I have the ground of the house connected to the negative side of the cell. I just disconnected it and the cell seems to do the same just the voltage across the cell drops by 5 volts. If I connect it to the positive side the voltage rises by 5.3 volts. So either side it does not seem to have a visual change to the gas production, only the cell voltage.

I now have a better dv video canera with a firewire cable so I'll do a better quality video of the battery effect tomorrow and hopefully a cleaner view of the gas production.

Luc
@gotoluc
You new coil is in the mail....

If you do not mind I will send you email on what could be changing, not something for the list right now.

The trying of the plate as you say has no meaning at this point, you need to be able to tune and yes the size may have added to the lack of aid. Your causing a buzz, different name, different person is what is often needed.

Great work, coil coming, email maybe and the world is watching and waiting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 30, 2008, 03:51:01 PM
@All
Tuning a SEC coil; PLEASE you need a correct tuning tool, this is of plastic or cherry wood or some other non ferrous material and insulator. If you do not have the correct tool, order one.

I damage the cores now and then and its done with a correct tool, if you back the slug out of the form and reinsert it and cross thread it, bang its gone. The coils cost me around $1.63 each, this is the cost of the coil, shipping and to have someone unwind and rewind it for the proper value.

Please be careful, with cost plus shipping for a single coil, you almost buy a whole board.

To many coils damaged now, so please protect you board and use the proper tool and do not cross thread.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on May 30, 2008, 03:55:07 PM

Great job,

I wonder if this has anything to do with sympathetic vibrations, which would to relate to the plates being similar in size and distance, or something related.  Anyways look forward to your work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 30, 2008, 05:10:12 PM
Hi all,
another update for this morning. at 1:15 am today (before going to bed) I decided to try to recharge a battery with the SEC circuit. I have 2 new identical 31 series, 125 Amp/hr. deep cycle batteries which I got for my personal van home. Anyway, the one I decided to charge was sitting at 12.50 volts and hooked it up at 1:15 am to the SEC and the voltage stabilized around 12.65 volts and the SEC was drawing 45ma. At 9:45 am this morning (8.5 hours later) I disconnected the SEC and let the battery sit for 10 minutes and took a reading and it's now at 12.53 volts, so up by about .03 volts. So I think it can be used for recharging batteries and may also show that batteries may hold their charge longer (under load) when charged by the SEC since it has quickly changed my HHO cell in a battery. I will do another test with a 1,500 watts inverter which I will connect a fix load to it to drain one of my batteries and then recharge it with the SEC and redo the same load test again to see if the SEC helps increase battery load time.

Also an update on the cell, since I was using the SEC for charging the battery my cell sat there for the 8.5 hours, so I took a voltage reading from each side (since it's a negative center cell) and the left side is at 5.02 volts and the right side is at 3.14 volts, so it is still at 8.16 volts 8.5 hour later.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on May 31, 2008, 06:10:25 AM
@gotoluc

hello gotoluc, since you are also charging batteries. I notice that I could change the charging behavior in about 80% (I know that dramatic) if you pay attention to the wave shape of the signal "around" the battery terminals using a "floating coil" (coil that only picks the magnetic field without touching anything in the SEC or other components).

Some waveshapes will give you a much better charging and keep that voltage at what you can read when charging, while other waveshapes will give the results you observed. I have been charging and load testing my 100ah battery for quiet some time now. It is very time consuming as you stated, about 8 to 10 hours each charge and another 2 to 3 hours load test (if using a 20 hours rate amps).

I also observed that when using waveshapes that are just perfect sinosoidal in nature will give you the fastest charge BUT horrible load test. My best shape is toward what is commonly known on the Bedini circles as the "H" shape.

I change the waveshape using more chokes on the output of the AV plug and some "antenas" that somehow change the shape of it. Error and trial.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 31, 2008, 08:42:12 AM
@gotoluc

hello gotoluc, since you are also charging batteries. I notice that I could change the charging behavior in about 80% (I know that dramatic) if you pay attention to the wave shape of the signal "around" the battery terminals using a "floating coil" (coil that only picks the magnetic field without touching anything in the SEC or other components).

Some waveshapes will give you a much better charging and keep that voltage at what you can read when charging, while other waveshapes will give the results you observed. I have been charging and load testing my 100ah battery for quiet some time now. It is very time consuming as you stated, about 8 to 10 hours each charge and another 2 to 3 hours load test (if using a 20 hours rate amps).

I also observed that when using waveshapes that are just perfect sinosoidal in nature will give you the fastest charge BUT horrible load test. My best shape is toward what is commonly known on the Bedini circles as the "H" shape.

I change the waveshape using more chokes on the output of the AV plug and some "antenas" that somehow change the shape of it. Error and trial.

Fausto.
@plengo

Thank you for taking the time to explain your battery charging experience with the SEC circuit. It would be great if I could call you and we could talk more since this is new to me. I have Skype and also unlimited long distance calling. Let me know if it would be possible.

Thanks again.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 31, 2008, 05:25:20 PM
@All,
Stability is achieved!  ;D The DAQ system is running as 4 differential channels and everything is sharing a common ground point that is not earth ground.  ;) The monster is running down in the dungeon right now and a PC is logging the performance.  ;D It is not calorimetry yet but I'm getting there. Is anyone else going to perform calorimetry on this device? I'd like to hear some other experiences with this. Here are some shots of the electronics. Oh, the sensing resistor has been changed out to a 1.5 Ohm, 1%, 1 watt ceramic. Not enough current flowing in this circuit to use the 0.050 Ohm sensors.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 31, 2008, 06:27:28 PM
@All,
The visuals tell the tale for me. The spikes are me picking up and moving the temp sensors. The dip in the red trace is the sensor for H20 when I put it into the SS vessel. The other two are sitting side by side tucked just under the left corner of the monitor. Now from this I will look for overall system stability. Next I'll completely assemble it and start dumping some known energy into the mass as a whole, obviously after I water bath calibrate those temp sensors but that will simply be done after assembly.  ;D Green trace is Power input. I'll be fiddling with some additional decoupling too to smooth things out a bit further.  ;D Data is being sampled on 1 minute interval and logged into Excel.

Best regards 

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 31, 2008, 08:40:14 PM
Hi all,

I have a new video available which is better quality ;D

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCbXJDK7Pco

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 31, 2008, 09:48:00 PM
Hi all,

I have a new video available which is better quality ;D

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCbXJDK7Pco

Luc
@gotoluc
EXCELLENT! (Yes a new coil is on the way to you)

This is what I have wanted for so many months now, "Take the Bull by the Horns" and show it who is boss.

Now for a bit of help, although you are doing very well on your own!!!!

*Get the SEC Exciter as close to the cell as possible. You are suffering a contamination of available energy by ionic current. The long leads from the SEC Exciter to the cell are drawing ions from the environment and canceling out the excess spatial energy.

Try moving it closer, please?

Okay, because you can not tune yet, there is a problem that will have to wait for correction (mail receipt).

Where are the smaller bubbles coming from, the anode or the cathode, I would bet the cathode??? This is a case where the balance of H2, O2 release is not in balance. See my video where there is only H2 released.

When you get your new coil if you are stocked with 1N4148's I will help you increase by 4X.

Great, Great work.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 31, 2008, 10:03:00 PM
Thanks Doc ;D

I'll try to see from what side the bubbles are coming from and make the leads as short as possible and post a new video if it works better.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on May 31, 2008, 10:05:25 PM
@All,
The visuals tell the tale for me. The spikes are me picking up and moving the temp sensors. The dip in the red trace is the sensor for H20 when I put it into the SS vessel. The other two are sitting side by side tucked just under the left corner of the monitor. Now from this I will look for overall system stability. Next I'll completely assemble it and start dumping some known energy into the mass as a whole, obviously after I water bath calibrate those temp sensors but that will simply be done after assembly.  ;D Green trace is Power input. I'll be fiddling with some additional decoupling too to smooth things out a bit further.  ;D Data is being sampled on 1 minute interval and logged into Excel.

Best regards 

Jim
@Loki67671
Hey man! (new generation saying) you are going farther than you need to go here. This is great stuff and what you have setup is fantastic, but remember it you have some gear with a combined error of say 20-30% and you have an Exciter running at 2+, you got no problem.

This setup really looks good, indeed. The one minute sampling may have to be adjusted after your first calibration run, if you do not want to post the cal run, could you send it to me direct as I have a few programs that can look at it.

So you are going to monitor water temp in the heat exchanger, the temp in the chamber where the SEC is at and the ambient? Or just the water and the ambient?

Can't wait to see data, great job and thanks for all the hard work you are going to to prove this to yourself.........

Thanks...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on May 31, 2008, 11:07:24 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

this is off topic but if you don't mind could you have a look at this new video I just posted and tell me what you think.

Thanks

Luc

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bXMgsW7Hu4
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 31, 2008, 11:16:50 PM
@Loki67671
Hey man! (new generation saying) you are going farther than you need to go here. This is great stuff and what you have setup is fantastic, but remember it you have some gear with a combined error of say 20-30% and you have an Exciter running at 2+, you got no problem.

This setup really looks good, indeed. The one minute sampling may have to be adjusted after your first calibration run, if you do not want to post the cal run, could you send it to me direct as I have a few programs that can look at it.

So you are going to monitor water temp in the heat exchanger, the temp in the chamber where the SEC is at and the ambient? Or just the water and the ambient?

Can't wait to see data, great job and thanks for all the hard work you are going to to prove this to yourself.........

Thanks...

@Dr.Stiffler,
You are welcome sir! The data is forthcoming and yes I will send it to you. The bottom line is, first, I'm going to empirically prove this to myself with data and second lay it out in front of the world, and those that are doing the same and not sharing, for permanent record.  ;D Then I'm planning on moving away from traditional fuels and energy just as rapidly as I can. I think Luc has just given us a little boost here as well as IronHead. Thanks to you folks and everyone else involved directly and indirectly also. This is going to "Rule"! Another of the new generations terms.  8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on May 31, 2008, 11:38:24 PM
@Dr Stiffler,
But above all of that, thank you!  ;)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 01, 2008, 12:08:36 AM
Dr. Stiffler,

this is off topic but if you don't mind could you have a look at this new video I just posted and tell me what you think.

Thanks

Luc

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bXMgsW7Hu4
@gotoluc
I would not trust any readings with floating leads. I would build a LPF with an r load approx = ohms/volt for the DMM and a few 0.1uF and 0.01uF across the load R.

The arc is putting out a ton of RF and it may indeed cause the meter to error. Then to the coil is outputting RF and this could also be very significant. Try putting say a 100K and a 0.01 in parallel across the load.

I do believe in Cold Electricity, but do not in Negative Electricity as this in my mind is similar to 'antimatter' and would cause a big reaction if it were present.

Nice video, but don't have much more to offer.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 01, 2008, 12:24:42 AM
@Loki67671
Hey man! (new generation saying) you are going farther than you need to go here. This is great stuff and what you have setup is fantastic, but remember it you have some gear with a combined error of say 20-30% and you have an Exciter running at 2+, you got no problem.

This setup really looks good, indeed. The one minute sampling may have to be adjusted after your first calibration run, if you do not want to post the cal run, could you send it to me direct as I have a few programs that can look at it.

So you are going to monitor water temp in the heat exchanger, the temp in the chamber where the SEC is at and the ambient? Or just the water and the ambient?

Can't wait to see data, great job and thanks for all the hard work you are going to to prove this to yourself.........

Thanks...

@Dr. Stiffler
I was thinking that after I was sure the measurements, as I have set them up, have valid meaning that there was only need for heat exchanger temperature and ambient temperature in the COP calculations. We use the offset obtained from the calibration runs to account for the mass beyond the 500g of water so the chamber temp really has little meaning except that I can use it to monitor for unsafe high temp condition.

Now I must pass an observation on. This entire set up is floating. There is no connection to an earth ground beyond the supply primary side. It is like a electrostatic bubble for sure. Now with this running and a DMM reading Vpout in millivolts from the power sensor IC I can literally "press on the field" by moving my hand just into the field and watching the DMM power meter, which shows an increased input power when my body interacts, ion flow  :'(, and also shows a return to the exact starting point, decrease in ion flow  ;D, when I move my hand back with amazing sensitivity. The changes are not very large and in the milliwatt range but they are very consistant and repeatable. The "bubble" is fairly good size. It will be interesting to map this field if I can.  8)

@all,
Anyone know where I can get my hands on a hollow copper or aluminum sphere about 12 inches in diameter? I have another idea, oh hell!  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: powercat on June 01, 2008, 01:15:59 AM
Quote
@all,
Anyone know where I can get my hands on a hollow copper or aluminum sphere about 12 inches in diameter? I have another idea, oh hell

Hi Jim
Is 8 inches ok

copper
http://oldworlddistributors.com/cart_float8.html (http://oldworlddistributors.com/cart_float8.html)
aluminum
http://www.calibrationspheres.com/ (http://www.calibrationspheres.com/)

great work
pc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on June 01, 2008, 01:47:28 AM
@gotoluc
I would not trust any readings with floating leads. I would build a LPF with an r load approx = ohms/volt for the DMM and a few 0.1uF and 0.01uF across the load R.

The arc is putting out a ton of RF and it may indeed cause the meter to error. Then to the coil is outputting RF and this could also be very significant. Try putting say a 100K and a 0.01 in parallel across the load.

I do believe in Cold Electricity, but do not in Negative Electricity as this in my mind is similar to 'antimatter' and would cause a big reaction if it were present.

Nice video, but don't have much more to offer.
Thanks for your diagnose Doc. I'll try the resistor. Here is a small gift for your time: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=64SGT5HB it's a new video of a very clean close up of the cell, any closer than that and I'll need a submarine. The avi video file is 57mb and looks very good. I uploaded it to megaupload to keep it clean instead of Youtube minimum quality. You just need to enter the 3 letters megaupload ask for and click download then wait about 30 seconds and then click free download. If you can't play the video on your computer then install something like Cole codec pack (regular version is fine) and it should play just fine.

Added: Cell voltage is at about 93 volts and the circuit is drawing about 42ma.

Enjoy

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 01, 2008, 02:45:29 AM
Hi Jim
Is 8 inches ok

copper
http://oldworlddistributors.com/cart_float8.html (http://oldworlddistributors.com/cart_float8.html)
aluminum
http://www.calibrationspheres.com/ (http://www.calibrationspheres.com/)

great work
pc



@powercat,
Thank you very much, that will probably work great.  ;D

Best regards

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on June 01, 2008, 03:44:17 AM
Quote
Where are the smaller bubbles coming from, the anode or the cathode, I would bet the cathode??? This is a case where the balance of H2, O2 release is not in balance. See my video where there is only H2 released.

The anode and cathode will not release H2 and O2 like you are thinking ... this is a variation of a BB series cell, not sure who first tried this on a different site, however you will find that because of the plate arangment that one plate will release both H2 and O2 (depending on the voltage) but the plate will release H2 and O ... depending on the anode and cathode placement and it does not matter if the cathode is in the middle ... and the anode's are on the outside ... the cell will conform but in lesser way, you would be better to remove the outside plates from either side of the cathode ... and do not emerge the plates in complete solution ... as the atomic level passes through the inward flux lines of the plate ( I am not talking magnetics here) there is a jump in power providing better energy transfer ...
that is one of the beauties of the BB series cell.  Of course this is in my findings without a SEC doing the work ... for now :)

@gotoluc ... when you try the placement more closer to the cell try it to the upper cathode side and then to the upper anode side and see if there is a difference.  Just courious.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on June 01, 2008, 03:45:10 AM
@Loki .. show off ... just kidd'n ...  :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on June 01, 2008, 04:56:48 AM
Hi all,

I need to sleep :-[ but she wont :-* ... have a look: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NN5WV917

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on June 01, 2008, 06:07:22 AM
*Removed*

This post was removed by the Moderator because it does not pertain to the
subject and intent of this thread -or- the poster is provoking the members with
one or more of the following; accusation, innuendo, argument, rudeness or
vulgarity.

DrStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 01, 2008, 12:31:28 PM
Hi all,

I need to sleep :-[ but she wont :-* ... have a look: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NN5WV917

Luc

@gotoluc

EXCELLENT! Very nice work. Looks like bubbles following field lines right back into the plates! I'm about as new to the study of this field, electrolysis, as you can get. I've forced bubbles, brute force, in electrolytes but it was just novelty, a foaming dangerous novelty, type work. There aren't enough hours in a day and you have just added a huge need for additional work.  ;D  :o Sweet! Please, if you get the chance, scan a hand drawn schematic or diagram of this circuit for analysis. Thanks and keep at it. No sleep INDEED!  8)

@Dr. Stiffler,
I expect you aren't going to sleep very much now either, not that you were getting to anyway.  ;D I also expect the answer to your questions upon return from the working vacation is HHO and then heat.  ;D Good God sir, you're going to need program managers now. I take it you expected this with distribution of the SEC exciters? The HHO group, the heat group, the capacitor charging branch, and then the Holy Grail bunch if that's even necessary.  ;) I can only imagine where else this will prove to be interesting. I'm definitely in for the long run!   8) Consider that I certainly intend on a blue and purple plasma furnace too so,  ;D as I have my lookouts grabbing tubes on an as seen basis.

@scraven,
Dr. Stiffler has likely forgotten more about electrolysis than we will ever know ourselves. Please try to show a little respect that can be understood as such, if you don't mind.  ;) If this is just you being you, then my apologies for misinterpreting your tone. It can be difficult to express oneself correctly and favorably in text. I know! I mean no flame towards you but I also want Dr. Stiffler to continue to be open with the community. He could have kept this to himself you know.  8) Thanks.

Welcome aboard everyone, ready for a ride? This one goes like the double decker bus in one of those Harry Potter films.  :D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 01, 2008, 12:48:57 PM
@Loki .. show off ... just kidd'n ...  :P

@nickle
Not really, but yes I suppose some!  ;)   ;D How is your work coming along? So do you think we can do something with the DGH's that will allow us to use them in the same manner as the DAQ I'm currently using? See the digital strip-chart I posted above. I don't think it's too bad for someone proficient at the tasks. I can get the software going but if you think my push towards the calorimetry is slow, sheesh,  ;D my software development is not extreme by any means.  ;D The DGH is a 15 bit DAQ and the price of them is pretty high but once again this is surplus that would have been landfill otherwise. Could prove to come in handy. As we talked about I will do!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 01, 2008, 03:40:52 PM
@ALL
A nice little Sunday look into the unknowns of SEC.

For those of you with the wire plug boards (I call them proto-boards) that still have an Exciter on one, here is a 5 minute test to perform that should cause a number of questions and additional understanding of the SEC theory and a SEC Exciter.

In the circuit included, put back the 400pF coupling cap between your load choke and the collector (same configuration we used from the start in almost all circuits). Add 6 1N4148's as shown. Place the neon at (A - A') and tune for max output. Now move the neon to (B - B')  then (C - C') followed lastly place the neon at the end of the diode string.

So what is happening, anything new or interesting?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on June 01, 2008, 03:49:34 PM
Hi all,

I need to sleep :-[ but she wont :-* ... have a look: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NN5WV917

Luc

Nice ... I have seen this when using a solution with electrolite but never thought it would/could be done with just distilled water. 

Could you take a lead off the SEC connected to a plate that is not in solution and put it near one of the other plates in one of your empty slots, try both leads one at a time .. just to see if you create an energy transfer now that the cell is charged ... not sure if it will work . just wondering ... I would do it but I now waiting for some more parts, toasted my lasted transistor, by connecting a SEC lead to a ground rod ... talk about a fast energy collision ... lol.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 01, 2008, 06:43:29 PM
@ALL
A nice little Sunday look into the unknowns of SEC.

For those of you with the wire plug boards (I call them proto-boards) that still have an Exciter on one, here is a 5 minute test to perform that should cause a number of questions and additional understanding of the SEC theory and a SEC Exciter.

In the circuit included, put back the 400pF coupling cap between your load choke and the collector (same configuration we used from the start in almost all circuits). Add 6 1N4148's as shown. Place the neon at (A - A') and tune for max output. Now move the neon to (B - B')  then (C - C') followed lastly place the neon at the end of the diode string.

So what is happening, anything new or interesting?


@Dr. Stiffler,

Starting point:
After initial setting supply was not adjusted, base coil was not tuned from first peak, just Ne moved as stated.

Supply Input reacted as following:
24.20 VDC  54ma        No Neon        1.30 Watt
24.07 VDC  64ma        Ne at A-A'      1.54 Watt
23.83 VDC  70ma        Ne at B-B'      1.66 Watt
23.63 VDC  74ma        Ne at C-C'      1.74 Watt
23.51 VDC  77ma        Ne at D-D'      1.81 Watt

Edit: After this point I did start tuning and adjusting voltages but the first series was recorded with the circuit untouched except for Ne load point. Loki

As the neon was moved from A-A' through D-D' the input power increased from 1.30 Watts to 1.81 Watts. Peak intensity of the Ne seemed to shift up in frequency as the Ne was moved A-A' to D-D' but power required for that peak intensity did not go back down. Ne was warm regardless of where it was.

I'm still thinking about this.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 01, 2008, 06:50:29 PM
 ;D You'd think I would have the sense to graph this.  ;D

Loki
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on June 01, 2008, 07:42:17 PM
Dear Dr. Stiffler, Loki, plengo,

   I have done some tests with the SEC circuit and below is the results.

 
 Applied Voltage    Consumed Current (w/AlPlate)    Consumed Current (wo/AlPlate)
         20V                      17mA                                            21mA
         30V                      20mA                                            35mA
         36V                      28mA                                            50mA

   ** With Al Plate, it Neon is brighter and consumes less current.
   ** With building ground (connected to the Al plate connection port), And If we apply 30V SEC consumes 50mA!!

   Result: pumping electrons from Air via Aliminum plate is better than pumping from ground???? Do you agree??


   We measured about 50VDc at the neon lamp when 36Vdc input applied.
   When we disconnect neon and measure the output voltage it is 180Vdc when 36Vdc input applied.

   Is there any way to inrease the output voltage to 1000V or 10 kV??


--

Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk
MSc EEE. Automation Engineer
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on June 01, 2008, 07:45:40 PM
Dear Dr. Stiffler, Loki, plengo,

   I have done some tests with the SEC circuit and below is the results.

 
 Applied Voltage    Consumed Current (w/AlPlate)    Consumed Current (wo/AlPlate)
         20V                      17mA                                            21mA
         30V                      20mA                                            35mA
         36V                      28mA                                            50mA

   ** With Al Plate, it Neon is brighter and consumes less current.
   ** With building ground (connected to the Al plate connection port), And If we apply 30V SEC consumes 50mA!!

   Result: pumping electrons from Air via Aliminum plate is better than pumping from ground???? Do you agree??


   We measured about 50VDc at the neon lamp when 36Vdc input applied.
   When we disconnect neon and measure the output voltage it is 180Vdc when 36Vdc input applied.

   Is there any way to inrease the output voltage to 1000V or 10 kV??


--

Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk
MSc EEE. Automation Engineer
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 01, 2008, 08:02:48 PM
Dear Dr. Stiffler, Loki, plengo,

   I have done some tests with the SEC circuit and below is the results.

 
 Applied Voltage    Consumed Current (w/AlPlate)    Consumed Current (wo/AlPlate)
         20V                      17mA                                            21mA
         30V                      20mA                                            35mA
         36V                      28mA                                            50mA

   ** With Al Plate, it Neon is brighter and consumes less current.
   ** With building ground (connected to the Al plate connection port), And If we apply 30V SEC consumes 50mA!!

   Result: pumping electrons from Air via Aliminum plate is better than pumping from ground???? Do you agree??


   We measured about 50VDc at the neon lamp when 36Vdc input applied.
   When we disconnect neon and measure the output voltage it is 180Vdc when 36Vdc input applied.

   Is there any way to inrease the output voltage to 1000V or 10 kV??


--

Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk
MSc EEE. Automation Engineer
@samedsoft
I was unaware you posted questions as well as the PM. I responded to your PM with answers to your questions, see that mail.

**   Is there any way to inrease the output voltage to 1000V or 10 kV?? **
This was not included in the PM so I will answer it here, Yes to 1KV, I don't know and have not tried above 1KV, I don't think it would be a good idea to go there, environment gets a bit strange up there.....

I did ask in the PM about what instruments you used to do the measurements as some of the readings seem way off, by 50%.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 01, 2008, 08:10:56 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,

Starting point:
After initial setting supply was not adjusted, base coil was not tuned from first peak, just Ne moved as stated.

Supply Input reacted as following:
24.20 VDC  54ma        No Neon        1.30 Watt
24.07 VDC  64ma        Ne at A-A'      1.54 Watt
23.83 VDC  70ma        Ne at B-B'      1.66 Watt
23.63 VDC  74ma        Ne at C-C'      1.74 Watt
23.51 VDC  77ma        Ne at D-D'      1.81 Watt

Edit: After this point I did start tuning and adjusting voltages but the first series was recorded with the circuit untouched except for Ne load point. Loki

As the neon was moved from A-A' through D-D' the input power increased from 1.30 Watts to 1.81 Watts. Peak intensity of the Ne seemed to shift up in frequency as the Ne was moved A-A' to D-D' but power required for that peak intensity did not go back down. Ne was warm regardless of where it was.

I'm still thinking about this.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
@Loki67671
Strange, you should see a doubling in neon intensity between each step from b to d (the end) and tuning should not have to be changed if tuned at A-A'.

My input current max is only 64mA and I would defy anyone to touch the neon when it is on the end 113'C with he gun.

What is the hfe of the transistor? Is it a MPSA06? Are you sure there is no earth to the plate?

This is a pretty stable effect and a circuit board is even designed for it in a different application, yeah I'll think also, I thought this would be an easy surprise!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 01, 2008, 09:17:37 PM
@Loki67671
Strange, you should see a doubling in neon intensity between each step from b to d (the end) and tuning should not have to be changed if tuned at A-A'.

My input current max is only 64mA and I would defy anyone to touch the neon when it is on the end 113'C with he gun.

What is the hfe of the transistor? Is it a MPSA06? Are you sure there is no earth to the plate?

This is a pretty stable effect and a circuit board is even designed for it in a different application, yeah I'll think also, I thought this would be an easy surprise!!!

@Dr. Stiffler,
OK.......You were right, my transistor must have been almost dead, it was having a rough go of starting the Ne. I changed the Ne also. After 4 different transistors, and yes these are MPSA06, I bought 100pc last time, I get to one that fires right up. I don't have the HFE meter here at the house,  :'( I also tore the entire circuit down and rebuilt it on the breadboard and then retested. Now what I'm reporting is subjective for sure. Visual and feel. Visually I can see a bit of luminous increase as I move from A-A' to the END. I don't like to look at them too much because it messes with my vision some. Heat to the touch is definitely increasing step by step and yes the End position seems significantly hotter than than A-A'. The tuning didn't require touch-up this time and I too would challenge someone to hold onto that Neon at the end position. It will burn you.

So the farther out into the plug, effectively adding a pair of 4148's with each move increases the impedance of the load and thus voltage. So this is a way to increase the hi-voltage and thus draw more from the lattice? I can feel the increased current is being dissipated by the transistor as the heat sink is warm, not hot, but warm. I guess these components are only going to take so much of this and then on to the new.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 01, 2008, 09:36:15 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
OK.......You were right, my transistor must have been almost dead, it was having a rough go of starting the Ne. I changed the Ne also. After 4 different transistors, and yes these are MPSA06, I bought 100pc last time, I get to one that fires right up. I don't have the HFE meter here at the house,  :'( I also tore the entire circuit down and rebuilt it on the breadboard and then retested. Now what I'm reporting is subjective for sure. Visual and feel. Visually I can see a bit of luminous increase as I move from A-A' to the END. I don't like to look at them too much because it messes with my vision some. Heat to the touch is definitely increasing step by step and yes the End position seems significantly hotter than than A-A'. The tuning didn't require touch-up this time and I too would challenge someone to hold onto that Neon at the end position. It will burn you.

So the farther out into the plug, effectively adding a pair of 4148's with each move increases the impedance of the load and thus voltage. So this is a way to increase the hi-voltage and thus draw more from the lattice? I can feel the increased current is being dissipated by the transistor as the heat sink is warm, not hot, but warm. I guess these components are only going to take so much of this and then on to the new.
@Loki67671
EXCELLENT!
You are on the same page or learning how to respond so I don't go left field ;D

Yes indeed you will see an increase in transistor heat, but it should not be significant (as you stated). Yes you understand in part what is taking place here, but think a moment, what is also happening to the junction capacity of the diodes when they are in series (total capacity per leg)?

When we speak of impedance we must include LCR?, so we have <C, ~>L and ~>R, but the R portion can be figured conventionally as Rj = Vj/Ij

So what is the main difference here (assuming we don't leave the long leads on the 4148's)?

Yeah you are seeing a good part of the picture. So is their a limit, should there be a limit?

Fun Sunday............... :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 01, 2008, 09:42:17 PM
@ALL

MPSA06, the most valued transistor in the world, soon to go the way of Barium Magnets.

In SEC Exciter circuits one should watch the hfe of the transistor(s). For example SEC PCBs are shipped with a transistor with an hfe <255 (currently). The transistors if used with the parasitic plate WILL degrade. The hfe will decrease. Typical 255 will drop to 100-120 after 10 hours of use at 36vdc (parasitic plate units).

So, install a socket and check the hfe often, it will change.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 02, 2008, 01:26:16 AM
@ALL

MPSA06, the most valued transistor in the world, soon to go the way of Barium Magnets.

In SEC Exciter circuits one should watch the hfe of the transistor(s). For example SEC PCBs are shipped with a transistor with an hfe <255 (currently). The transistors if used with the parasitic plate WILL degrade. The hfe will decrease. Typical 255 will drop to 100-120 after 10 hours of use at 36vdc (parasitic plate units).

So, install a socket and check the hfe often, it will change.

@Dr. Stiffler,
Yes indeed, I saw it already with this exercise and one of my SEC3's now that you mention it. I'll bet the VLT's are beat too! Today I ran a board all day inside of a cardboard ring with the SS vessel and 500ml of distilled water sitting on top of it. Even without insulating wrap in the basement here there is a clearly a significant visible increase in water temperature. I also found some other interesting items like the effectiveness of star topology grounding. I'm gaining much confidence in these upcoming calibration and heat runs. It appears that there is plenty to spare after today.  ;D I'm kind of surprised but pleased at the same time. No insulation at all in this basement?  ::) My input voltage is rock solid and clearly there is a downward trend in the input power. Tuning changes, degrading transistor, degrading neon and etc. That transistor downstairs right now has about 16 to 18 hours of run with the parasitic plate. It won't start a neon without tuning way down into heavy ion flow so it will retire ASAP. 

Capacitors in series divide as the reciprocal of sum of reciprocals so the more we add the lower the capacitance goes. Removing the leads from 4148's and board mounting will reduce and basically fix the inductance value to a very low value also. Self resonant frequency is higher due to decreasing capacitive reactance. Ooooo?  ;D Can I explore the pipe organ in this way? We will run into construction limitations as we go higher and higher in frequency but what about clusters of devices sharing the same parasitic with loads tuned in this manner? Constructed in such a way as to minimize or better yet utilize interelectrode reactances? Hmmmm.  ;D

Interesting and Fun Sunday indeed!

Best regards,

Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on June 02, 2008, 01:44:25 AM
*Removed*

This post was removed by the Moderator because it does not pertain to the
subject and intent of this thread -or- the poster is provoking the members with
one or more of the following; accusation, innuendo, argument, rudeness or
vulgarity.

DrStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: storre on June 02, 2008, 06:47:04 PM
@stiffler, Loki67671: Thanks for the recommended equipment list! I'm waiting for my boards to arrive and can't wait to dig in!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 02, 2008, 07:23:13 PM
@All
Well we have less than (10) sec boards left and they can be configured either 3's or 20's and I need some vacuum tubes so am offering to trade a board for tubes (in working condition, high trans conduction).

The list of tubes I need is;
2) OD3
1) OB2
1) 5517
1) 5U4
1) 6AU5
2) 6V6
2) 12BH7
1) 12AU7
3) 12AX7

If you have any or all these and would like a sec3 or 20 send me an emal and we will work out the details. Send to stifflerscientific@embarqmail.com

Thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on June 03, 2008, 07:19:15 AM
@All
Well we have less than (10) sec boards left and they can be configured either 3's or 20's and I need some vacuum tubes so am offering to trade a board for tubes (in working condition, high trans conduction).

The list of tubes I need is;
2) OD3
1) OB2
1) 5517
1) 5U4
1) 6AU5
2) 6V6
2) 12BH7
1) 12AU7
3) 12AX7

If you have any or all these and would like a sec3 or 20 send me an emal and we will work out the details. Send to stifflerscientific@embarqmail.com

Thanks

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Here are a few links to tube lots available on ebay just in case you can't find someone with a trade.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-TV-TUBES-VACUUM-TUBES-LOT-OF-32_W0QQitemZ320258954855QQihZ011QQcategoryZ64629QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-25-various-NOS-tubes-OC3A-OD3-5M-K9-more_W0QQitemZ380033632066QQihZ025QQcategoryZ64629QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Tube-Radio-TV-tube-lot-of-57-NOS_W0QQitemZ110258166712QQihZ001QQcategoryZ67816QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/38-Tube-Lot-6AQ5-6CG7-12BE6-12BY7A-12DZ6-6DE7-More_W0QQitemZ190225475579QQihZ009QQcategoryZ73380QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/VACUUM-ELECTRON-RADIO-TV-TUBE-LOT-176_W0QQitemZ140236573703QQihZ004QQcategoryZ64629QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/VACUUM-ELECTRON-RADIO-TV-TUBE-LOT-96_W0QQitemZ140236574386QQihZ004QQcategoryZ64629QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-47-Vintage-LOWREY-Vacuum-Tubes-NR-Radio-Amp_W0QQitemZ290234054477QQihZ019QQcategoryZ64629QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-81-Boxed-Vintage-Vacuum-Tubes-amps-radio-etc_W0QQitemZ120266575921QQihZ002QQcategoryZ64629QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/electronic-tubes-vintage-lot-of-100_W0QQitemZ230258274403QQihZ013QQcategoryZ73378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 03, 2008, 12:30:58 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
I carried out additional exploration along the lines of the circuit you posted Sunday. As can be seen in the picture I have added an additional 6 4148's and a second AV plug fed by a 22uH from the 400pF cap off of the collector. I'm wondering why we added the cap in series with the 22uH so I ran the same circuit without it. I put a wire in place of the 400pF cap. With the wire in place I notice that the ion current flow is at least 4ma higher than with the 400pF but more importantly I think is that my transistor runs much hotter, subjective, than with the cap in circuit. The transistor doesn't have to dissipate as much energy with the impedance better matched I take it? Another observation is that with the 400pF coupling the supply voltage tends to rise and current drops while with the wire the exact opposite is true.
Also keep in mind my batch of MPSA06's are lesser devices than yours. Time to order and demand better suited devices.  ;D My fault for not checking earlier. Blasted mass production. I also found some real duds in that batch HFE's around 70 or less. You know I ran this with the transistor that came with my SEC3 and wouldn't you know I burned my damn finger again, I thought I had gotten over that,  ::) Tuning the base coil either direction from peak causes the Ne in the "simple" branch to the left to blaze while greatly reducing the Ne intensity over in other "stacked" or "pumping" branch for lack of better terms and a personal deeper understanding of whats going on here. Yes both Ne's when tuned will burn you, but the one on the right gets you much faster, even with my lesser X-sistors. I'm running the best of my lot with HFE's at 160 to 172. Most of transistors measured out to the 125 to 145 range.

Just a little Tuesday morning fun.  ;D Trying to learn all the time.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim

ADDED: Just thinking into it some more, it is not just impedance but the balance of CAPACITANCE in the effective impedance. We can have many different combinations of L and C that have the same resonant frequency but the C to L ratio seems quite important here. I think I'm smoking brain cells this morning so I'll drop back and reflect now.  8) 8) 8)

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 04, 2008, 02:35:10 AM
@Dr. Stiffler,
I carried out additional exploration along the lines of the circuit you posted Sunday. As can be seen in the picture I have added an additional 6 4148's and a second AV plug fed by a 22uH from the 400pF cap off of the collector. I'm wondering why we added the cap in series with the 22uH so I ran the same circuit without it. I put a wire in place of the 400pF cap. With the wire in place I notice that the ion current flow is at least 4ma higher than with the 400pF but more importantly I think is that my transistor runs much hotter, subjective, than with the cap in circuit. The transistor doesn't have to dissipate as much energy with the impedance better matched I take it? Another observation is that with the 400pF coupling the supply voltage tends to rise and current drops while with the wire the exact opposite is true.
Also keep in mind my batch of MPSA06's are lesser devices than yours. Time to order and demand better suited devices.  ;D My fault for not checking earlier. Blasted mass production. I also found some real duds in that batch HFE's around 70 or less. You know I ran this with the transistor that came with my SEC3 and wouldn't you know I burned my damn finger again, I thought I had gotten over that,  ::) Tuning the base coil either direction from peak causes the Ne in the "simple" branch to the left to blaze while greatly reducing the Ne intensity over in other "stacked" or "pumping" branch for lack of better terms and a personal deeper understanding of whats going on here. Yes both Ne's when tuned will burn you, but the one on the right gets you much faster, even with my lesser X-sistors. I'm running the best of my lot with HFE's at 160 to 172. Most of transistors measured out to the 125 to 145 range.

Just a little Tuesday morning fun.  ;D Trying to learn all the time.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim

ADDED: Just thinking into it some more, it is not just impedance but the balance of CAPACITANCE in the effective impedance. We can have many different combinations of L and C that have the same resonant frequency but the C to L ratio seems quite important here. I think I'm smoking brain cells this morning so I'll drop back and reflect now.  8) 8) 8)

Jim

@All,

Update for correction:  My initial observation that the transistor was dissipating greater heat when the wire was in place of the capacitor was incorrect. The transistor is actually the warmest with the 400pf in circuit not the wire. I found out what made me think that also. LOL  :-[ LOL The lead of the 1Meg resistor was touching my transistor heat sink that I was of course touching to check temperature with a finger and zzzzzzt, RF burn, ouch, I just did it again when I retried the experiment a little bit ago. Ooops.  ;).....thanks doc! Someone has to keep me on the strait and narrow.  ;D It was interesting just the same though.  8) 8) 8) Exploring is my absolute favorite activity and since I started building these I can say that I'm just as fascinated today as the first time I turned the power on and saw the NE light up on 1 wire. Very cool and learning even more. Dr. Stiffler so kindly pointed out the discrepency, I found the problem with what I was doing and confirmed his assessment. Good deal.


EXCELLENT!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on June 04, 2008, 12:58:22 PM
Hi all

I've got an SEC 15-3 still coming in the mail, but I'd really like to play around with this stuff now. I've noticed that the SEC board doesn't seem to have the big copper pipe for the coil, but the latest driver circuit posted on Stiffler Scientific does. Apart from that coil, i've probably got everything I need to set up an SEC driver on my breadboard, so I was wondering if anybody could point me to what I should do about the coil?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 04, 2008, 01:41:46 PM
@All,
Good morning everyone.  ;D Since my mind is once again saturated I leave this for you to ponder.  ::)

This is the same circuit we have been working with. SEC exciter on a breadboard with an AV plug connected via 22uH choke to the collector of the transistor. Now the load is an 4148, green LED, NE, red LED, 4148. This was stumbled upon by accident not some stroke of insight or genius and I haven't figured out the significance yet but check it out anyway.

The progression goes like this and is documented in the photos.

4148, green LED, NE, red LED, 4148 ------------------------------------------------(circuit runs as we are used to, LED's and NE illuminated)

4148, green LED, NE, red LED(reversed polarity in the circuit), 4148-----(circuit runs almost as we are used to, red LED not illuminated)

4148, green LED(reversed polarity in the circuit), NE, red LED, 4148-----(circuit runs but nothing is illuminated)

Interchange the colored LED positions in the AV plug an do the same thing.

The green LED is connected to the CATHODE of the 1st 4148 and the red LED is connected to the ANNODE of the second 4148. So all I'm doing is flipping the LED connection in the AV plug. The phenomena is following the red LED but it is unclear to me right now as to why. I didn't want to be the only one distracted today.  ;D ;D ;D Flipping the green LED kills all the illumination regardless of where it is in the circuit. Replacing the LED's with 4148's does not show the same behavior and I leave you to fool with this in your spare time  ;D

Check it out, try it out if you can, ponder if you will.

Dr. Stiffler will probably want to kick my butt for throwing a distraction like this out here. If that is the case sir I will remove this post. I just found it very interesting. It must have to do with the LED turn on voltage differences. Cool stuff and does not behave this way in a standard DC circuit with or without a 1K current limiting resistor. Man I love this.  8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on June 04, 2008, 07:38:52 PM
It seems my power supply is able to drive an AV plug as well - when I take a single lead from the power supply to an AV plug, and put the breadboard on a sheet of aluminium foil, the neon/cap I've got over the AV plug will start flashing. I guess this could be put down to stray RF from the power supply, so thats something probably worth nothing - if you're using a lab power supply to drive this circuit, there could be a bit of power being contributed to the circuit which doesn't appear on the meters, no matter how heavy your filtering is.

All that said, I found it interesting to note that even when the AV plug is just connected to the power supply with it's stray RF, adding extra 1N4148s increases the power out (in my case it speeds up the flashing of the neon and cap). This seems a bit counter intuitive to me, but that said I am not an electrical engineer. Is there any chance somebody could explain why adding extra diodes increases the output, whether its a conventional or non-conventional explanation? I don't think the raised voltage has anything to do with it, as then putting two neons over the plug instead of one should draw extra power as well, but it doesn't...

Also, I thought it might be worth nothing that with just the AV plug connected to my dodgy power supply, without the backing aluminium foil the power out decreases *dramatically*.

Excuse me if all of this is useless and off topic, i'm still quite a noob to all this.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 05, 2008, 05:21:39 AM
It seems my power supply is able to drive an AV plug as well - when I take a single lead from the power supply to an AV plug, and put the breadboard on a sheet of aluminium foil, the neon/cap I've got over the AV plug will start flashing. I guess this could be put down to stray RF from the power supply, so thats something probably worth nothing - if you're using a lab power supply to drive this circuit, there could be a bit of power being contributed to the circuit which doesn't appear on the meters, no matter how heavy your filtering is.

All that said, I found it interesting to note that even when the AV plug is just connected to the power supply with it's stray RF, adding extra 1N4148s increases the power out (in my case it speeds up the flashing of the neon and cap). This seems a bit counter intuitive to me, but that said I am not an electrical engineer. Is there any chance somebody could explain why adding extra diodes increases the output, whether its a conventional or non-conventional explanation? I don't think the raised voltage has anything to do with it, as then putting two neons over the plug instead of one should draw extra power as well, but it doesn't...

Also, I thought it might be worth nothing that with just the AV plug connected to my dodgy power supply, without the backing aluminium foil the power out decreases *dramatically*.

Excuse me if all of this is useless and off topic, i'm still quite a noob to all this.


@zaydana
Post some diagrams of what you say is going on for analysis please.  ;D

@Dr. Stiffler,
You sly devil you........  ;)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on June 05, 2008, 02:32:37 PM
I've uploaded the following video which hopefully explains what i'm getting at a bit better, as well as the attached "circuit diagram".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8WSz4ijWgQ

It should be said that i'm not saying Dr Stiffler's work is just drawing power from something like this, but just pointing out that if you're using a cheap bench power supply, you shouldn't take overunity results for overunity results without first checking for things like this. I'd strongly recommend running the SEC from a battery, as running from a battery does not produce the same results as the video shows for running from my power supply.

I look forward to getting my SEC and being able to play around a bit more with what you guys are doing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on June 05, 2008, 04:36:52 PM
@zaydana
Quote
It seems my power supply is able to drive an AV plug as well - when I take a single lead from the power supply to an AV plug, and put the breadboard on a sheet of aluminium foil, the neon/cap I've got over the AV plug will start flashing. I guess this could be put down to stray RF from the power supply, so thats something probably worth nothing - if you're using a lab power supply to drive this circuit, there could be a bit of power being contributed to the circuit which doesn't appear on the meters, no matter how heavy your filtering is.

Stray RF? what is stray RF?--- we could consider the "term" RF to be higher frequencies of oscillation which have different properties and qualities in matter relative to lower frequencies. What nobody wants to consider is that all space must be filled with "all" spectrums of frequencies. This full spectrum of "radiations", as the energy is radiating from a point outward, would produce oscillations in matter, thus matter has the ability to generate it's own field based on the external radiation absorbed and retransmitted. Is the aluminum plate under your circuit an antenna or a transciever?
Here is a neat experiment ;D take two identical capacitors (I used a 2200uF/16v cap)and short them to zero volts, now solder an AV plug with a 3" lead onto one of the capacitors and leave the other one as it is. You will find the capacitor with the AV plug will charge up to 1v within a day or so while the other remains basically discharged, So what charged the capacitor?
If we can concieve that all space is filled with energy as oscillations, then a good analogy would be an object (matter) floating on a pond, any waves or ripples on the water (a disturbance in the media) must "effect" the matter and also be reflected from the object producing interferrence patterns based on the properties of the matter--- absorbtion and retransmission. All we have to do is convert this oscillating energy into a usable form -- DC with the diodes in an AV plug. Here is something else to consider, we normally tune radio's and such to one individual frequency but what if we could tune into hundreds of frequencies at once in this case a considerable amount of power could be recieved.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 06, 2008, 01:53:59 AM
I've uploaded the following video which hopefully explains what I'm getting at a bit better, as well as the attached "circuit diagram".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8WSz4ijWgQ

It should be said that i'm not saying Dr Stiffler's work is just drawing power from something like this, but just pointing out that if you're using a cheap bench power supply, you shouldn't take overunity results for overunity results without first checking for things like this. I'd strongly recommend running the SEC from a battery, as running from a battery does not produce the same results as the video shows for running from my power supply.

I look forward to getting my SEC and being able to play around a bit more with what you guys are doing.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, at all, that there is ample energy to be had in this universe if we can just figure out how to reliably get it. Keep exploring and testing. Did you say an Exciter was en route to you? Especially explore this circuit behavior with a tuned SEC near by if you can. Many people testing.........cool!  8) I'm not sure where yours is coming from.  ;D Make sure you do not have a mains ground issue too.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on June 06, 2008, 04:29:14 PM
allcanadian:

I set up some capacitors and AV plugs, and as you said, it seems that a capacitor connected to an AV plug charges. I got to about 0.8V in one night on an 8200uF cap.

That said, i'm still not convinced it is anything other than radio interference doing the charging. I've noticed that hooking a nice long arial to the AV plug charges the cap a lot faster than just leaving it by itself. Having the aluminium backing again helps speed up the charging, it seems. And lastly, when my cheap power supply is on, the caps charge faster again :-). With the positive lead from the power supply running to an AV plug, the caps charge at a rate of knots.

Again, I'd like to stress that i'm not trying to say the SEC exciter is a radio receiver, just that I think its possible that at least part (not necessarily all) of the weird results people are getting is just radio interference.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on June 06, 2008, 06:41:28 PM
@zaydana
Quote
I set up some capacitors and AV plugs, and as you said, it seems that a capacitor connected to an AV plug charges. I got to about 0.8V in one night on an 8200uF cap.
That said, i'm still not convinced it is anything other than radio interference doing the charging. I've noticed that hooking a nice long arial to the AV plug charges the cap a lot faster than just leaving it by itself. Having the aluminium backing again helps speed up the charging, it seems. And lastly, when my cheap power supply is on, the caps charge faster again :-). With the positive lead from the power supply running to an AV plug, the caps charge at a rate of knots.
Again, I'd like to stress that i'm not trying to say the SEC exciter is a radio receiver, just that I think its possible that at least part (not necessarily all) of the weird results people are getting is just radio interference.
Personally I would go as far to say it "is" RF (high frequency oscillations)charging the cap through the AV plug, the cap without the AV plug did not charge and the one with the AV plug did therefore the AV plug must be the catalyst for the "charging" effect. Crystal radio's are based on this very premise----that is a tuned LC tank with a half wave rectified output. The question is what frequency is the AV plug recieving and from where? and what is the mechanism whereby the AV plug can recieve this energy?
Quote
I think its possible that at least part (not necessarily all) of the weird results people are getting is just radio interference
LOL ;D Some engineers have spent there entire lives seeking to understand what you refer to as "radio interference". Recently some fellows from MIT used this "radio interference" to send over 40w of energy through thin air over a distance of 6 feet to light a 40w bulb. They will probably become millionares because of there understanding of how one could do such a thing.
I realize I have probably taken what you meant to say out of context to make my point but I think 99.99% of most people would dismiss this "AV plug capacitor charging" as nothing of interest, I however find it absolutely fascinating.
 It's interesting to note that Henry T Moray believed all space was filled with energy as high frequency oscillations and supposedly built a device which could recieve over 50,000 watts from these oscillations.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tishatang on June 07, 2008, 02:27:11 AM
@allcanadian
Quote:
Personally I would go as far to say it "is" RF (high frequency oscillations)charging the cap through the AV plug, the cap without the AV plug did not charge and the one with the AV plug did therefore the AV plug must be the catalyst for the "charging" effect. Crystal radio's are based on this very premise----that is a tuned LC tank with a half wave rectified output. The question is what frequency is the AV plug recieving and from where? and what is the mechanism whereby the AV plug can recieve this energy?


I just made a post here that might answer some of the questions you just posed.  Hook your AV plug to a caduceus wound toroid as explained at the bottom of my last post.  You may want to read some of my earlier posts to see where I am coming from.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4454.msg102761/topicseen.html#msg102761

Tishatang
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 07, 2008, 06:43:53 PM
@zaydana,
While there may very well be "stray" RF floating around everywhere inducing voltages in circuits and you for that matter, have you ever measured these? We measure signal strength and we calculate voltages in the microvolt range. Millionths of a volt, that's real small. That is what I have around me as far as "stray RF" goes. A spectrum analyzer is the instrument of choice here. I don't know what energy you are capturing but I can assure you that the spectrum in my local is relatively quiet across the band in question. Definitely so in the dungeon of a basement I have, the SA shows nothing down there. There are a few small signals and the standard police, fire, commercial, and stuff in the 400MHz bands above ground level. That is until the SEC is fired up.  ;D I'm looking at this on my spectrum analyzer not speculating. The broadband excitation is initiated by a SEC exciter and when adjusted correctly, as illustrated and shared by Dr. Stiffler mathematically now also, apparently causes the fabric of the universe to give up just a little bit of this energy to us. I am going to be attempting to measure this starting next week while on vacation.  ;D I'm set up and ready to get some calorimetric data.

 Hey, I'm not asking you to believe it and I'm not asking you to buy anything either. Dr Stiffler did not build the SEC devices for profit because at the price he charged he didn't make a damn penny. He probably lost money trying to get the average "Joe" to try and "PROVE THIS TO HIMSELF" Don't believe anything including speculative your own this, that, and the other. Just do it for yourself! Try to measure some extra energy being manifested in the SEC device. You are correct, an AV plug is apt to show you some behavior you may or may not be used to. I reproduced your circuit here at my place and it does nothing for me. I also reproduced Dr. Stiffler's circuits and purchased SEC-3 boards and they do some very interesting things. The broadband excitation alone is strange. Try building a broadband exciter and see. I still am just starting to understand this.  ;D
I don't want to hear people bitching about gas and energy prices because it our own damn fault. Get off of you butts and start doing something about it. Dr Stiffler is and he's trying to share the workload. This is entry research work not application engineering. You aren't going to buy a SEC based hot water tank on the market anytime soon I don't think. You'll have to build your own, if you can. You aren't going to see cheap alternative fueled vehicles either, you'll have to do that also. Wake up folks, no one is coming to save you, especially those getting rich on mine and your oil addictions.  :P
This forum is so quiet it is unreal.  ::) What did you folks do with your SEC's? Hell I've gone through a dozen transistors and Ne's so far, at least.  :D I've managed to build my own too and I'm beginning to wonder why the hell I'm posting it here.  :-\

Have a great day,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 07, 2008, 08:52:02 PM
Hi all

I've got an SEC 15-3 still coming in the mail, but I'd really like to play around with this stuff now. I've noticed that the SEC board doesn't seem to have the big copper pipe for the coil, but the latest driver circuit posted on Stiffler Scientific does. Apart from that coil, i've probably got everything I need to set up an SEC driver on my breadboard, so I was wondering if anybody could point me to what I should do about the coil?

@zaydana,
In place of the copper pipe, or screen before that, we are now using a 22uH 13MHz SRF epoxy dipped RF choke available from many sources, in the same circuit location. Please forgive my grumpy-gram it is not intended to discourage anyone. I wasted the rear diff on my pickup this morning. Tend to make you a little edgy.  ;D
Also, the presented circuit progression forward is well documented in these pages as is enough information to shoot for measurement of COP>1 performance. There is no substitute for the reading and study plus ample time with the circuit. Sorry. If there is one thing of value I learned from traditional mainstream schooling it is in fact "how to learn". The rest is captured in reference books that need to be modified on a quarterly basis. Maybe not modified but surely reviewed.  ;D Keep at it and welcome aboard. I look forward to many discussions about this and finding out what is driving your Ne.  ;D

@All,
Off your butts! Hell at least go solar, I'll be walking for awhile.  :-*

Best regards,

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 07, 2008, 09:24:37 PM
@zaydana,
While there may very well be "stray" RF floating around everywhere inducing voltages in circuits and you for that matter, have you ever measured these? We measure signal strength and we calculate voltages in the microvolt range. Millionths of a volt, that's real small. That is what I have around me as far as "stray RF" goes. A spectrum analyzer is the instrument of choice here. I don't know what energy you are capturing but I can assure you that the spectrum in my local is relatively quiet across the band in question. Definitely so in the dungeon of a basement I have, the SA shows nothing down there. There are a few small signals and the standard police, fire, commercial, and stuff in the 400MHz bands above ground level. That is until the SEC is fired up.  ;D I'm looking at this on my spectrum analyzer not speculating. The broadband excitation is initiated by a SEC exciter and when adjusted correctly, as illustrated and shared by Dr. Stiffler mathematically now also, apparently causes the fabric of the universe to give up just a little bit of this energy to us. I am going to be attempting to measure this starting next week while on vacation.  ;D I'm set up and ready to get some calorimetric data.

 Hey, I'm not asking you to believe it and I'm not asking you to buy anything either. Dr Stiffler did not build the SEC devices for profit because at the price he charged he didn't make a damn penny. He probably lost money trying to get the average "Joe" to try and "PROVE THIS TO HIMSELF" Don't believe anything including speculative your own this, that, and the other. Just do it for yourself! Try to measure some extra energy being manifested in the SEC device. You are correct, an AV plug is apt to show you some behavior you may or may not be used to. I reproduced your circuit here at my place and it does nothing for me. I also reproduced Dr. Stiffler's circuits and purchased SEC-3 boards and they do some very interesting things. The broadband excitation alone is strange. Try building a broadband exciter and see. I still am just starting to understand this.  ;D
I don't want to hear people bitching about gas and energy prices because it our own damn fault. Get off of you butts and start doing something about it. Dr Stiffler is and he's trying to share the workload. This is entry research work not application engineering. You aren't going to buy a SEC based hot water tank on the market anytime soon I don't think. You'll have to build your own, if you can. You aren't going to see cheap alternative fueled vehicles either, you'll have to do that also. Wake up folks, no one is coming to save you, especially those getting rich on mine and your oil addictions.  :P
This forum is so quiet it is unreal.  ::) What did you folks do with your SEC's? Hell I've gone through a dozen transistors and Ne's so far, at least.  :D I've managed to build my own too and I'm beginning to wonder why the hell I'm posting it here.  :-\

Have a great day,

Jim
@Loki67671
Let me chime in on what may be going on with the multitude of SEC Boards out there. First I feel 80% of the people that have them are unable (equipment & research wise) to see the forest for the trees. NO INSULT HERE AT ALL TO ANYONE. Let me be clear, the ability to accept the SEC Theory requires you dump all you know today about electronics, save a few basic things and then look at what is going on. Will you get it and understand, NO not at first. Its like trying to swim with a pair of waders on (hope this has meaning to some), your going to sink and drown unless you get those damn waders off.

I am so sick of hearing the crap about Tesla did this, Tesla did that and so and so did this 100 years ago. Please people, prove it to me, if these people did it, WHERE IS IT TODAY? Why can't you all take it and power your cars and homes? Really I made a board that is standard and give everyone with such board an identical platform to work from. PLEASE show me in the literature any circuit that can run today that will even light a Neon as a basic SEC15-3 will with so few parts and NO TRANSFORMER.

Why have I not been posting the last few days? GUESS!

No I have not lost money on the SEC Boards, if I sell the last eight as SEC15-20's I will have placed in my shallow pocket some $203. WOW! Is this not the greatest thing in the world.

I have seen the light, for sure.................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 08, 2008, 01:58:22 AM
@All,
I have tried repeatedly to get you to participate and try to learn this and explore it for yourselves. I have been informed that Dr. Stiffler is going to pull the plug on this group.  :'( Apparently the lack of participation has frustrated him to the point of ending it. Damned shame! You can bet that he is and has been watching and I'll bet he's damn tired too. Thanks for the hard work and sharing Sir. It is appreciated from this explorer. I'll be working with this for years.

Best regards,

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on June 08, 2008, 03:39:28 AM
@All,
I have tried repeatedly to get you to participate and try to learn this and explore it for yourselves. I have been informed that Dr. Stiffler is going to pull the plug on this group.  :'( Apparently the lack of participation has frustrated him to the point of ending it. Damned shame! You can bet that he is and has been watching and I'll bet he's damn tired too. Thanks for the hard work and sharing Sir. It is appreciated from this explorer. I'll be working with this for years.

Best regards,

Jim
I hope you are wrong about this :-[ I was just starting to get the feel for the Doctor's great circuit. I was doing tests today and had all electrical equipment unplugged. My power feed was 4 x 9 volt batteries in series ;D all 9 LED's and Neon are bright plus had 2 x 4 watt night light bulbs glowing and get this, the bulbs were only connected only by one wire and the whole thing was drawing 50ma.

I think Dr. Stiffler has found something great here. What is going on with everyone >:( am I missing something???...is there something built, tested and working on this site that is giving better results than this circuit is at this time ??? please show me the way!... because as far as I am concerned this is the only shared working device that you can even buy completed.

Your efforts are appreciated Dr. Stiffler, I just can't speak for others.

BTW, I found that an NTE123AP transistor works well on your circuit.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on June 08, 2008, 04:13:11 AM
@ Loki,

Thanks for the info on the 22uH chokes, I kinda figured that out eventually anyhow just by looking at the SEC i've now got. I've also managed to replicate the circuit, and electrolysis, and have been playing around with it for the last couple days. I just havn't been posting here, as I'm still trying to catch up to where everybody else seems to have gotten to.

I've only just finished my uni semester and gotten any time to play around with this, but now I plan on spending a significant portion of my next couple months studying this thing. Also, when I get my next paycheque (which could take a while), I plan on investing in a spectrum analyzer and some other lab equipment. I've already got a nice scope and signal generator with the intention of really understanding SEC.

@ Dr Stiffler,
I can understand wanting to quit with the ou.com forums, but if you move your discussions somewhere else, *please* keep them open. My guess is there are at last a few other people out there who like me have not had the time, but plan on getting involved as soon as they can. I'm hoping that once i've managed to catch up to where everybody else is and read all the "literature" on this (which is unfortunately interspersed with irrelevent conversations like this), i'll be able to help out with the research as well.

Regardless of what you choose, thanks very much for sharing what you've found with the world so far, and good luck with where you decide to take it in the future.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on June 08, 2008, 05:04:50 AM
@Dr.Stiffler,

please doctor, do not leave us. We are here. It is a lot of work on this simple device but by no means is easy. I am doing the real science measuring, testing, experimenting, observing SEC with lead acid batteries. It takes lots of time. Just charging a battery is easily 8 to 20 hours and discharing is another 8 to 10 hours and I need at least 100 load tests to measure beyond doubt its capability aside from the fact I have been changing the circuit for the best performance. In other words, it is very tough, but by no means quiet unimportant or silent.

I am very glad you came aboard with such great device and meticulous work, I only wish I was a doctor too.

Keep up the good work man.

BTW, you said a few posts before that if I am bored you would have more for me. I am no way close to bored but if you think i can do it, please let me know.


Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on June 08, 2008, 05:29:12 AM
@ the Dr. yup hope you don't go.

@the Dr.  what do you think the possibility is to get to the 6th harmonic with the SEC? I think it has to be at least reaching beyond the 3rd to the 4th.

@ all
I have been pretty quiet here myself .. still waiting for the board to show ... it should be here next week ... plus my coil forms that I ordered are not in yet either ... so I am a bit of a stand still for now ... in the mean time I have been putting a small scale hyrdrogen cell together.

I also talked with the local neon maker .. and he is willing to make some custom bulbs. :) with different gasses.

As far as the skeptics out there ... hmm well lets see ... I can light up a LED (1.2 volts is usually what is take) and I can light up a NEON N2 .. (at least 75 plus volts to do it) ALL AT THE SAME TIME so hmmm have not seen that anywhere in any book period!  Yup people are funny as many are not able to comprehend (leave the books behind)... I somewhat comprehend ... but more importantly I just accept the fact and try to build on it.

(http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Y2pcMzB8FFsJ:https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu/archives/1999/11_1999/msg00366.html+dynamic+resistance+physics+buffalo+edu&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=ca)

I have not seen peeps saying that Tesla did this .. but like you say show me ... lol.  He did have brillent mind.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 08, 2008, 06:52:14 AM
@ Dr. Stiffler:

Yes, please stay here and continue your fine work.  I know I lurk here most of the time, but that is because I have nothing positive to contribute.  I am just sitting back, reading, and trying to keep up and learn.  I also wanted to order one of your boards but lack a little confidence in my understanding of your discovery at this time.  I have been researching the AV plugs just so I can understand a little about them.  I am getting close to the point of attempting a replication.  I too have been busy as my case loads have (finally) picked up a bit.

Anyway, I hope you continue to post here.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on June 08, 2008, 04:31:48 PM
@ Dr. Stiffler:
Anyway, I hope you continue to post here.
Bill

I beleive Doctor has been threatened by Big Guys.. We have to understand the situation. I was thinking that he was brother of Stanley MEYER.
He was a good man. We all will remember him in our hearts around the globe. Why HartiBerlin is not contributing in here?

We need to increase the voltage on the AV plug. I guess thats the secret. Can anybody succeed on connecting diodes on the AV plug?
Have you measured the voltage with and without load on AV plug?

Nuri Temurlenk
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nothere2win on June 08, 2008, 10:19:19 PM
I'm still waiting for test equipment in the mail, hold your horses Dr. Stiffler! Please try and hang with us if you can. I have a feeling a lot of experimenters don't post and just try the various experiments that have been posted in the thread by you and others. Anyway, thanks for all you have done and if you can't be with us anymore than I wish you well on any future endeavors that you partake in.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on June 09, 2008, 03:24:20 AM
If doc wishes to leave us and/or this project, for whatever reason, we should honour and support his decision. Then it is up to us to decide, individually, whether we will carry on with the project or not and in what capacity. The good doc had shared with us years of his research in hope that interested parties would carry on the torch and take it further. Those who see/have seen the potential in what was shown will remain devoted to this project regardless if this thread continues or not, and/or if doc stays with us. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hydrocontrol on June 09, 2008, 03:39:11 AM
@ Loki,

 My guess is there are at last a few other people out there who like me have not had the time, but plan on getting involved as soon as they can. I'm hoping that once I've managed to catch up to where everybody else is and read all the "literature" on this (which is unfortunately interspersed with irrelevant conversations like this), I'll be able to help out with the research as well.

Regardless of what you choose, thanks very much for sharing what you've found with the world so far, and good luck with where you decide to take it in the future.
  I have followed this thread closely from the start. I am in the same boat of others of not currently having any available time.  I have ordered and received both boards. Thanks. The fully populated board I did try out and decided that this was worth pursuing. I just ordered and received the experimenter board which I hope to start using in a couple of weeks after my DIY house project gets further along and does not consume all my available time..
 If possible please continue here. If not in this forum perhaps in another forum. But by all means please continue.
Tom
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on June 09, 2008, 08:20:59 AM
@Dear plengo,

  Can you check http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/paramp31.htm circuit and add a coil on the AV plug for parametric pumping ?

  Also please check http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/tep80.htm for advanced version..

  Best Regards,
  Nuri Temurlenk
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: storre on June 09, 2008, 12:44:41 PM
What is the status of scaling this up so power larger loads? Or if that is not possible, what about chaining multiple ones together? It should be possible with electrolysis. Does anyone know how much gas one of these boards can generate? Maybe with several of these boards it could run a small generator using the output of the generator to power the sec boards.

I hope the doctor stays on board. I would like to see the SEC2 :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hydrocontrol on June 09, 2008, 08:54:38 PM
Interesting front page statement on the good Doc's website.

http://67.76.235.52/DrStiffler/

"Because of Health Problems this Web Site will be shut down on
July 1, 2008  Dr. Stiffler wishes to thank all those that believe in his work and the SEC Theory."

"Health problems" does not sound good.  :'( ..... 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: storre on June 09, 2008, 10:19:06 PM
Doesn't say that now :) Quick recovery?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on June 10, 2008, 12:30:43 AM
Good news .. my SEC showed up in the mail .. :) now should be able to see some performance differences between my frankenstein and the Dr.'s.

Seems to be a lot of speculation around the Dr. leaving staying being sick etc.  forone I would like it if we all stayed on topic so this can progress and wait till the Dr. says something.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on June 10, 2008, 01:53:54 AM
DO NOT *EVER* LOOK AT THE SUPER WHITE LEDs
OR THE NEONS CONNECTED AS LOADS WITHOUT
OSHA APPROVED UV PROTECTION. A SIGNIFICANT
AMOUNT OF X-RAY CAN ALSO BE PRESENT AND
PRESENTS AN EXTREME HAZARD.

Posted for Dr. Stiffler.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on June 10, 2008, 02:01:38 AM
...damn, and I was just starting to enjoy the after flashes I get from staring at the LEDs. :)

Hmm I don't recall ever getting anything on my Geiger counter, but then again I should have measure more often...I'll try again soon and see if it counts anything, once my sec15-3 arrives.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on June 10, 2008, 05:29:58 AM
@storre

if you chain many SEC together they will ALL change each others behavior as if they were really one. So scalling, at least in my experience, has not been very successfull, but I do agree that if a very high impedance load, I mean really high, may be will allow some kind of chainning.

@Dr.Stiffer

until you return, I guess I will post some more.

@All

I have been experimenting with charging batteries as many know. One of my recent changes (gotloc please read this) has been adding some more chokes at the base of the transistor (as per original design) and removing the variable choke/form. My recent specs are:
1) 3 parallel chokes of 22uh and no form/coil in place of the original one 22uh.
2) 400pf capacitor at the base of the transistor (as original spec).
3) one wire from the first AV plug (as Dr's specs) into another board with more AV plugs. This new board has another 22uh chokes and instead of an AV plug with diodes I have an "AV plug" using 10uh chokes and then next and AV plug with diodes. Cross this ending AV plug I connected a 400pf capacitor.

This whole circuit increase the output power by at least 50%.

I will create an schematic tomorrow.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 11, 2008, 09:43:21 PM
@All

I'm not dead and not dying other than normal aging. I have suffered a burn to an eye, cause unknown, could be Texas Sun, could be Arc Welding, but it may indeed be viewing SEC outputs without proper protection. Whatever the reason the condition will be improved (projected) over the next few weeks.

SEC is still alive and well, in fact better than ever.

I have decided to change to a different form of presentation an interaction, that being in a more controlled an focused environment.

To answer a few questions; SEC has been ramped up, SEC is now viable for heating and light sources with displayed gain. New moderate power PCB's have been produced, 5-30 watts. Chaining these units allows for reasonable and productive devices.

So, don't feel I left the earth, work is going on and the work is advancing. If you have a SEC PCB work with it, it is the doorway to what you all seek.

Thanks....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on June 12, 2008, 03:59:45 AM
Hey Doc,

Try making some colloidal silver and put it into your eye, it will help with the burn, or just in general as an antibacterial/antiviral agent. :)

Hope you heal fast...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 12, 2008, 11:30:43 AM
YES!  ;D

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 12, 2008, 09:45:39 PM
Hey Doc,

Try making some colloidal silver and put it into your eye, it will help with the burn, or just in general as an antibacterial/antiviral agent. :)

Hope you heal fast...
@amigo

NO! this is bad advice and let me explain why.

I have seen in the lab the effects of Colloidal Silver on bacterial cultures, but the availability of a suspension that could be considered safe enough to place in even an animals eye is highly in question. Of all the externally accessible human organs (systems if you will) the eyes are indeed the ones to not play around with, now having said that, see!! its do as I say and not as I do, because my problem is caused from shear stupidity and complacency,,,PERIOD.

I did research on Colloidal Silver and as many have found it does have significant benefit if properly prepared and used for the conditions and under the circumstances that it has been shown to be an advantage. I do not subscribe to taking your Silver Dinnerware and making your own (we did in the lab) because there are significant risks involved.

My research into Colloidal Silver was in the area of treatment for Otis Externa. It was found to be useful until you got into the serious stuff like S. Aureus and Pseudomonas such as P. Aeruginosa.

So thank you for the aid and assistance, but I do not subscribe to anything like this for eye treatment, regardless of the cause or condition.

Please no offense, but this is not a good idea....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 12, 2008, 09:58:24 PM
@ALL

So you all understand what is taking place here, go to one of my we sites and get a link to preview what is happening with SEC and how I will be conducting business fro 7/1/2008.

The new site is far from complete, but it will show that I have not hidden and the MIB's have not got to me.

I will carry on a dialog on SEC with whoever wishes to, but only via a Q&A from my new (coming) site. I am indeed sick and tired of the BS from some that creep into this thread. Even with the delete power as Moderator, I may not delete the crap before hundreds i not thousands see it. So from now on they can all do whatever and say whatever they want, BUT the only Official Information will be on the new site.

If this does not work for you, sorry, but if you see anything at all in SEC then you should welcome a direct connection as I am headed.

Yes! If its a stupid question or a PLANT or a DIS-INFORMATION question, it will not appear. If you are working with SEC on a proto-board or you have a SEC PCB them come and follow the advances. SEC is alive and moving forward in many different directions.

Thanks....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on June 13, 2008, 01:37:42 AM
Hi Doc,

re: Colloidal Silver, I never mentioned using Silver Dinnerware because I figured you already knew that it has to be pure silver and distilled water, but regardless of that it appears you've already looked into it. :)

Interesting stuff on the new site, I just kinda feel that communication might be cut short by using that Q&A and email. Would you consider running your own mini-forum instead, or at least automate the whole process by using a webform and a database driven system of questions and answers (I can think of several ways how to do this)?

Otherwise, I am looking forward to your SEC G2 and new possibilities it opens...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gotoluc on June 13, 2008, 06:57:25 AM
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

today I received the tuning coil that you sent me in the mail for free, thank you. It is now on the board and all is working well.

Thank you also for continuing the research on your new site and the access to questions.

Luc
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on June 13, 2008, 06:04:21 PM

The new site is far from complete, but it will show that I have not hidden and the MIB's have not got to me.
Thanks....

 @Dear Doctor,
 
     I would like to thank you for your new site and letting whole world to access SEC theory in a more formal way. SEC14-1G1 Prototype apperently shows the COIL configuration has very important affect on the Energy conversion process.

     I have been thinking for long time and please correct me if below ideas  are  not relevant;

      1. Parasitic plate may be any conductor and different antenna configurations might be designed for optimum surface coupling and energy pumping.
 
      2. Coil must be copper  because of  Copper's unsolved properties yet?
   
      3. Example 40 may be furher expanded in a similar way to achieve higher voltages?

    Could you please also label and value the SEC II design schema?
     
   Looking forward for your comments and new you tubes..

   Best Regrads from
   Nuri Temurlenk Istanbul   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 15, 2008, 12:29:29 AM
@All,
I'm going for the heat runs.  ;D A sneak peek for you.  8) 8) 8) Do you think it's hot? I hope my calorimeter works as planned. Just about 36 mW's over 1 watt input in these pictures. Soon! Anyone else discoloring neon's and beating transistors?  ;D ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on June 15, 2008, 12:50:45 AM
Please confirm if this is normal.I've taken a digital photo of my SEC replication with neon lit in orange but on photo it is very bright white light ! Is that because of not visible for human eyes radiation (UV,infrared?) ?

Second observation : burn from SEC is really painful ,be careful! First there is small itching but after that I felt a pain in full hand and stiff muscles.

Last observation : I used common transistor BC639 and it seems to work as well.

forest
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 15, 2008, 02:10:38 AM
Please confirm if this is normal.I've taken a digital photo of my SEC replication with neon lit in orange but on photo it is very bright white light ! Is that because of not visible for human eyes radiation (UV,infrared?) ?

I would not necessarily jump to that conclusion but it is possible. May just as likely be the CCD imager in the camera driven to saturation. Could be both! Loki

Second observation : burn from SEC is really painful ,be careful! First there is small itching but after that I felt a pain in full hand and stiff muscles.

RF burns tend to be this way. I have suffered quite a few myself. Yes I get pain stiffness later on also but nothing that I would say is out of the ordinary. It is the nature of an RF burn. I've had them from working with High Power radio gear mostly from transmission lines.  :o Loki

Last observation : I used common transistor BC639 and it seems to work as well.

Define "as well"  ;D Dr. Stiffler shipped his SEC15-3 with MPSA06's that he graded for high gain, hfe about 250, try to stay in that range. The higher gain transistors I use the better my results are. Just a little observation. Try high gain MPSA06 or equivalent. Loki

forest

@forest
See my answers above and watch the RF burns.  :'( Keep at it.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 15, 2008, 02:45:30 AM
@All
Next day or two will post on my site a diagram and some breadboard pics of a SEC15-3 driving different sized Xenon tubes.

Loki wanted high intensity light so I sat down today and got the little bugger working.

I knew this some time ago, but Xenon will give better heat than neon if you properly adjust the plasma so it is no avalanche mode. Anyway it is a nice little strobe driver without the traditional transformer.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: chrls on June 15, 2008, 02:24:33 PM
Best solution for burning eyes..:.Put slices of cucumber on the eyes
even if you go to sleep
i,ve had terrible pain in the eyes, welding (welding eyes)
kept me awake crying
until i found out/heard about it
the only thing what realy works.
Thanks for everything doc
that's all..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on June 15, 2008, 07:56:14 PM
@loki

Unbelievable result, 117F @ 36 mW's over 1 watt.   ;D
How fast does it reach this temp. from roomtemp.?

What temperature does a neon get when used according to its specifications? DC etc. I mean, when you use it as it should be used. :)
(don't know if this has already been answered)
Maybe it can be figured out what the powerconsumption is by lowering inputs until it becomes as hot as the neon on the SEC.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 15, 2008, 09:23:15 PM
@All
Billy is starting to add more to the new site and the Xenon tubes is going up, some already there.

Do a bookmark of www.drstiffler.com and when July comes around it will be the default.

Gee where are all the wood worms coming from, people that have never posted any working knowledge here are bold enough to ask questions?

Wow! Guys, the answer is find out for yourself!!!!!!!!!!

Try it you might like it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on June 16, 2008, 08:18:45 AM
Gee where are all the wood worms coming from, people that have never posted any working knowledge here are bold enough to ask questions?


Dear Doctor,

I am sorry to hear that. I will try to find out myself....

Thanks anyway..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 16, 2008, 09:28:23 PM
@All
You all might enjoy seeing this short video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA0k2Nv8g-I
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on June 17, 2008, 02:29:33 PM
@DrStiffler

The circuit diagram of the SEC15-3 shown on your website (on page "SEC Exciter Circuits")  has the anodes of D1 and D2 connected together. I think this maybe a printing error?

EDIT
Yes they are wrong from time to time, its a cause of sharing data library's and not using a common (production one). Sorry for any problem, but you seemed to know better anyway.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 17, 2008, 03:31:58 PM
@All,
First run is in progress!  ;D If you think this is simple.......... ::).....Go ahead and give it a try. If I didn't have such a hard head I would have listened to Dr. Stiffler and just ordered two lab thermometers and a, coffee pot for coffee of course. Hours of measurements in the lab or hours of measurements in the lab. Either the DAQ does it or I do it!  ;D No Way! I have to do it the hard way. I'll pay either way.

This shot is the 1st calibration run executing that, assuming my data looks good, should turn into my first attempt at COP measurements. Cross all extremeties. Here we go! First shot is the rig and the second is the strip chart. Yes I'm over sampling, call me a control freak if you will but considering the time it takes for this to return to ambient I'll abuse computers all day long. Hey that's what they're for.  ;D I'll back off after I get a solid run. Calibration Power input is fixed at 20 VDC through a 200 Ohm 3watt ceramic resistor.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 17, 2008, 03:38:51 PM
@DrStiffler

The circuit diagram of the SEC15-3 shown on your website (on page "SEC Exciter Circuits")  has the anodes of D1 and D2 connected together. I think this maybe a printing error?

Correct.  ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 20, 2008, 01:29:40 AM
@All

Now have a SEC15-3 creating a very good and stable Xenon plasma and hot as down under.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNVAmxrFiM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 20, 2008, 01:53:30 AM
@All

Now have a SEC15-3 creating a very good and stable Xenon plasma and hot as down under.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNVAmxrFiM

Very Nice! Damned impressive!  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on June 20, 2008, 04:48:24 AM
@All

Now have a SEC15-3 creating a very good and stable Xenon plasma and hot as down under.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNVAmxrFiM

Hey Doc,

That is pretty impressive indeed, though is the video cut a bit short. It feels as if you cut it in the middle of a thought?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 20, 2008, 04:59:53 PM
@All,
First run is in progress!  ;D If you think this is simple.......... ::).....Go ahead and give it a try. If I didn't have such a hard head I would have listened to Dr. Stiffler and just ordered two lab thermometers and a, coffee pot for coffee of course. Hours of measurements in the lab or hours of measurements in the lab. Either the DAQ does it or I do it!  ;D No Way! I have to do it the hard way. I'll pay either way.

This shot is the 1st calibration run executing that, assuming my data looks good, should turn into my first attempt at COP measurements. Cross all extremeties. Here we go! First shot is the rig and the second is the strip chart. Yes I'm over sampling, call me a control freak if you will but considering the time it takes for this to return to ambient I'll abuse computers all day long. Hey that's what they're for.  ;D I'll back off after I get a solid run. Calibration Power input is fixed at 20 VDC through a 200 Ohm 3watt ceramic resistor.

Best regards,

Jim

@All,
A word to the wise, if anyone else is even going to attempt this calorimetry, stay away from complexity here. The Rainbow kit temp sensors can't take it and don't work for squat besides being nice CHEAP novelties. They were not and are not precision sensors. I'm working on a different and greatly simplified approach. Elusive, yes, impossible, NEVER!!!  ;D CHECK the FREAKING XENON OUT! SWEET! I would not recommend touching that, and I don't even have one running yet.  ;D But I will....... ;)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on June 20, 2008, 06:15:08 PM
@All

Now have a SEC15-3 creating a very good and stable Xenon plasma and hot as down under.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVNVAmxrFiM

Good Afternoon Dr. Stiffler,

Received my Exciter board.  What a nice piece of work!  Have you happened to measure the Xenon surface temp with a probe or IR thermometer?

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 20, 2008, 09:03:38 PM
Good Afternoon Dr. Stiffler,

Received my Exciter board.  What a nice piece of work!  Have you happened to measure the Xenon surface temp with a probe or IR thermometer?

Ben K4ZEP
@Ben - K4ZEP

Yes Ben I have and will send you PM on that. But for all that may do this, the wires are standard soldered on the ends of the tubes. This will only last a five to six hours before the solder crystallizes. Sorry for not giving the temp here, but you can guess pretty close.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: mudwump on June 20, 2008, 09:11:21 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

Would you please post your input parameters for voltage and amps regarding the xenon tube experiment. I did not see them on the video.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on June 21, 2008, 09:57:52 PM
@ all ... sorry have not posted anything in awhile ... I have a lot going on at the home ( rugrats and summer ) front right now. 

That being said ... I have some very very intersting results that I will be posting with some vids on hydrogen and more power .... I have mutated my frankenstein even more.   The original SEC that I received provided more insight.   Very cool stuff.  I can say this though that one needs to be cautious of the RF freqs be imited via the neon's or led's.

If one gets the notion build a cacudeus coil and run it off the av-plug ... BE CAREFULL ... and make some observations ... near and far ... that is all I will say and nore will I offer more then this ever.

@ loki nice work is all I can say ... once I settle down I will work the program.
Title: SEC Replication
Post by: Lattice333 on June 22, 2008, 03:25:25 PM
Hello All,

first post. Dr Stiffler thanks for all the work and effort you have put in. I'm sure many are following your work.

Photo's of SEC15-3 replication on prototype board is attached.

General comments for those replicating SEC15-3 on prototype board are;

- try to copy the layout of the components on the board. The layout is deliberate.
- The Dr sources parts from Jameco - transistors are Fairchild rather than Phillips and tend to have higher average gain.
- Coil was replicated using nylon building fastner cut to length and hollowed out with drill. 5.6mm outside diameter. Used 60cm of 24 guage wire. Two ferrite beads on tapered matchstick for core. Second matchstick holds both in place. Crude but works fine.

Dr - eagerly waiting to see SEC-30W circuit. Keep up the great work.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on June 29, 2008, 04:36:45 AM
@DrStiffler

Thanks for the SEC's and the additional item of SS wire. I've prototyped the published circuit from your website of the SEC-15, and while I've successfully driven non-linear loads (multiple LEDs, neon) in various configurations, it's not clear to me that this circuit can drive resistive loads. Have you had  any success in this area?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on June 29, 2008, 05:27:24 AM
*Deleted by Moderator*

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on June 29, 2008, 03:30:45 PM
Yes it is a Caduceus coil ... late nights tends to bring out the best spelling in me.  As for sharing any insight with someone that only is capable of wise ass remarks, why? It is a no wonder that humanity is the way it is.  Taunting me will not cause me to release my private build or findings.

As I said before I will not give any insight to this local forum on the build.  WHY ? because it is to dangerous THAT IS WHY and most of the people here do not have a good understanding on the Dr. Stiffler's circuit period.  Take the time and read this complete thread.  A regular pulsed Caduceus coil will give you headaches and nose bleeds, kidney problems and so much more, it can also provide good things.  Surely if you want to cause greater damage or good to yourself you can figure it out on your own!

I spend my own time and money on my research in many areas, it is not for everyone especially those that are not like minded.  Take some time and do some reading and then start your own experiements you will be far more fulfilled.

None relevant posts are deleted from this thread so people do not have to shift through garbage and waste time like in so many other threads.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on June 29, 2008, 04:12:13 PM
Yes it is a Caduceus coil ... late nights tends to bring out the best spelling in me.  As for sharing any insight with someone that only is capable of wise ass remarks, why? It is a no wonder that humanity is the way it is.  Taunting me will not cause me to release my private build or findings.

As I said before I will not give any insight to this local forum on the build.  WHY ? because it is to dangerous THAT IS WHY and most of the people here do not have a good understanding on the Dr. Stiffler's circuit period.  Take the time and read this complete thread.  A regular pulsed Caduceus coil will give you headaches and nose bleeds, kidney problems and so much more, it can also provide good things.  Surely if you want to cause greater damage or good to yourself you can figure it out on your own!

I spend my own time and money on my research in many areas, it is not for everyone especially those that are not like minded.  Take some time and do some reading and then start your own experiements you will be far more fulfilled.



None relevant posts are deleted from this thread so people do not have to shift through garbage and waste time like in so many other threads.



Amen......calorimetry work still under development. Don't sweat the small stuff Nickle...... ;D

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on June 29, 2008, 04:42:08 PM
@DrStiffler

Thanks for the SEC's and the additional item of SS wire. I've prototyped the published circuit from your website of the SEC-15, and while I've successfully driven non-linear loads (multiple LEDs, neon) in various configurations, it's not clear to me that this circuit can drive resistive loads. Have you had  any success in this area?
@PCB

Excellent! You must drive the professors nuts and will make a very good EE.

You are the first to either determine this through actual work with the device or the first foolish enough to make the statement in public. Yes indeed I have had little success in a straight R load, at least success in the sense of feeling any novelty is involved. I do not want to get into this to deep in public at this time, but it you are bent on doing anything with pure R you will need to go back to the early designs using the cap charge and SIDAC discharge. After so much rebuttal from the gallery on my measurements of this configuration, I dropped further open discussion.

Indeed I go by memory, but I think you got an enhanced board so you can interchange a few things? Anyway I always like to keep current in what is going on in the academic field theses days, I find it interesting what the professors are saying to each other when compared to what they are saying to the students. I have your email, but feel it presumptive unless you would like to have a dialog on Linear versus Non-linear??
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on July 01, 2008, 06:59:25 AM
@DrStiffler

I have a SIDAC but instead I used a 5V zener diode to keep down the voltage, and was successful in driving 5 mAs through a resistor, anymore than that and the voltage across the load started to drop.

It would seam that the top diode that makes up the AV plug is not surprisingly a half wave rectifier that converts the output of the oscillator to DC. The potential being determined by the zener diode (the LEDs, neon, SIDAC, Xeon tube and alike perform the same function except the potential is determined by their intrinsic breakdown voltages, which can obviously be quite high in the case if the SIDAC). The role of the second diode I assume is what enables the whole thing to float above ground.  Unfortunately, halfway rectifiers are not very efficient, it would be interesting to see if there is a full wave rectifier equivalent circuit arrangement. Really, the oscillator can be replaced by any signal source and the AV-plug will drive a small load. I was surprised to discover that connecting the AV-plug to either the -ve or +ve terminals of the supply with it switched off light a white LED, provided the power supply was plugged into the power socket... I saw the circuit literally glowing in the dark after I had switched everything off.

Next steps: Measure phase different of the a.c. voltage and current driving the AV-pug.  What kind of load does the AV-plug present to the source? Is it receiving real or reactive (imaginary) power?

I have no problem if you wish to contact me directly via email.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on July 01, 2008, 03:02:31 PM
@DrStiffler

Having slept on it I realize that the two diodes forming the AV-plug do in fact create a full wave rectifier, not a half wave as in my previous post. The top diode conducts during the positive cycle, while the bottom diode conducts during the negative cycle. The zener diode, LED, neon etc form the regulation function. Either side of the load is a virtual ground relative to the other side of the load, so the DC potential measured across the load can be positive or negative depending on your reference point.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 01, 2008, 03:11:05 PM
@DrStiffler

Having slept on it I realize that the two diodes forming the AV-plug do in fact create a full wave rectifier, not a half wave as in my previous post. The top diode conducts during the positive cycle, while the bottom diode conducts during the negative cycle. The zener diode, LED, neon etc form the regulation function. Either side of the load is a virtual ground relative to the other side of the load, so the DC potential measured across the load can be positive or negative depending on your reference point.
@PCB
Humm..., that makes it a bit difficult in explaining the glow in a neon as being single electrode as in polarized DC rather than bidirectional DC?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on July 01, 2008, 05:45:09 PM
@DrStiffler

I'm not quite sure what you mean by bi-directional DC?  There is a DC potential across the neon with a positive node (top diode) and a negative node (bottom diode). The flow of DC current is unidirectional from the positive to negative node. There is also a quite large AC component being the ripple voltage siting ontop of the DC which will modulate the neon which responses to both DC and AC unlike an LED for instance. As an aside, when the AV-Plugs are put in series an in the SEC-20, it is  the ripple voltage that is powering the next stage down the line.

Regarding full verses half wave, its probable half wave on further reflection, with one diode pushing for half a cycle and the other pulling for half a cycle.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 01, 2008, 07:26:09 PM
@DrStiffler

Having slept on it I realize that the two diodes forming the AV-plug do in fact create a full wave rectifier, not a half wave as in my previous post. The top diode conducts during the positive cycle, while the bottom diode conducts during the negative cycle. The zener diode, LED, neon etc form the regulation function. Either side of the load is a virtual ground relative to the other side of the load, so the DC potential measured across the load can be positive or negative depending on your reference point.
@PCB
involving, moving, or taking place in two usually opposite directions <bidirectional flow>

**Your explaination;
The top diode conducts during the positive cycle, while the bottom diode conducts during the negative cycle.

So is it bi-directional by your statement or is the current always flowing in the same direction?

In your last post where yo observe the AC component, one wonders how there is not a vector addition and subtraction taking place?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on July 01, 2008, 07:57:44 PM
@DrStiffler

From my observation the DC current flows only in one direction from the Positive node to the negative node. There is no bidirectional DC current flow, neither could there be since that is the nature of DC. The AC voltage component simply sites on top of the DC voltage. Yes you can vector sum the amplitudes of the DC and AC voltages.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: argona369 on July 01, 2008, 08:10:10 PM
**Removed by Moderator**
Yup! your right! Put it here and it goes away..................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 01, 2008, 08:39:26 PM
@DrStiffler

From my observation the DC current flows only in one direction from the Positive node to the negative node. There is no bidirectional DC current flow, neither could there be since that is the nature of DC. The AC voltage component simply sites on top of the DC voltage. Yes you can vector sum the amplitudes of the DC and AC voltages.
@PCB
Well thanks for the lectronics course.

So guess you are ready to tell us all how it works, great guy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: serialmodster on July 01, 2008, 09:21:59 PM
**Removed by Moderator***
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on July 01, 2008, 10:12:55 PM
@DrStiffler,

(Hi BTW)

As far as I can remember there was already some consense
that the 2 slow diodes of the AV plug operate as a pseudo
random modulated charge pump.
A higher voltage on the charge pump can transfer more charge
at the same capacity. (which is a highly nonlinear capacity in this case).
During the charge transfer, the impedance of the AV plug is highZ (with high
voltage).
By connecting a resistor to the output of the AV plug - you damp the voltage
during the charge transfer by a high degree -> no output.(low charge transfer)
->The output resistance of the AV plug is only low in some part of the cycle.
By using a SIDAC, NEON or a synchronous rectifier - you can extract(harvest)
the transfered charge in the moment where the output resistance of the
AV plug is low without dampening the charge transfer.

what do you think  ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 01, 2008, 10:19:45 PM
@DrStiffler,

(Hi BTW)

As far as I can remember there was already some consense
that the 2 slow diodes of the AV plug operate as a pseudo
random modulated charge pump.
A higher voltage on the charge pump can transfer more charge
at the same capacity. (which is a highly nonlinear capacity in this case).
During the charge transfer, the impedance of the AV plug is highZ (with high
voltage).
By connecting a resistor to the output of the AV plug - you damp the voltage
during the charge transfer by a high degree -> no output.(low charge transfer)
->The output resistance of the AV plug is only low in some part of the cycle.
By using a SIDAC, NEON or a synchronous rectifier - you can extract(harvest)
the transfered charge in the moment where the output resistance of the
AV plug is low without dampening the charge transfer.

what do you think  ?

@fritz
I would say (cautiously) that is pretty close to reality.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on July 01, 2008, 11:55:20 PM
just to round it up -
During the phase where you can extract energy -
the output is kind of current source - which means that
the output resistance is still high - but load at this point
in time doesn?t effect the charge transfer.

Or a complementary approach - even if its possible to
load the charge pump with resistive load attached - the pump has
to be discharged for the next cycle because of limited capacity.
At high voltage the discharge rate is faster.
This would be the matching condition vor the inductive part
of the story.

Is the input impedance of an AV plug capacitive - and the output
resistance inductive !?????? a switch-mode gyrator ?

crazy plug.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on July 02, 2008, 12:12:25 AM
Are you sure about this AC ? I have measured something quite different ; AC in one direction but no AC when probes are reversed . I may be wrong but it looks like a pulsating DC (or maybe more then one field superposed ?) which deceive AC meter as being truly AC.Could someone confirm my finding ?
So many questions...I hope my comment is on topic ;-)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on July 02, 2008, 07:42:54 AM
Are you sure about this AC ? I have measured something quite different ; AC in one direction but no AC when probes are reversed . I may be wrong but it looks like a pulsating DC (or maybe more then one field superposed ?) which deceive AC meter as being truly AC.Could someone confirm my finding ?
So many questions...I hope my comment is on topic ;-)

If your equipment shows something different on exchanging the probes,
you definitely have not the right setup to measure the stuff.
I see pretty no chance to measure that with multimeters or scopes directly.

The only way would be to integrate some high speed op-amp to the pcb,
which is connected in differential mode with appropriate resistors to
keep the voltage in  a suitable range - keeping the traces to the opamp
very short, shield & guard the input+OPAMP - then connecting a scope to
the output of the opamp should give some view which doesn?t disturb
the device under test.
Because of the high frequencies involved, every connected wire acts as
antenna, changes the output, acts as  load. The opamp would give the
chance to measure with minimum load - having enough output power
to drive the measurement equipment with constant load thru a coax
cable.


rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on July 02, 2008, 02:40:59 PM
@fritz
I would say (cautiously) that is pretty close to reality.

If I may then have a shot as something a little outside of reality then, so much so I doubt it.
Could it be that it is pulling in EM waves and rectifying them with the diodes? (This may sound a bit far out but Stiffler has found a field around some of these circuits that does not get weaker with distance but rather abruptly ends at a distance)

If so then a few thoughts occur.

First it would be interesting to add an antenna to the plug, I would recommend a coil made of multistrand wire, and possibly to wave coils and anything creating EM near it. (it is very likely pulling fields from the circuits that drive it, but it should be possible to add alternate fields to pull in)

Second, it may just be possibly to try this without diodes if this theory is correct, instead connect the single wire to an antenna (coil), and a load, possibly also a cap to help tune in a field, maybe deliberately detuning this from the circuit driving it, and comparing the ability to pickup a field from a nearby EM source with and without the sec active.

So don't rule out that it may be something more.

I got into this before most anyone else and am thinking that maybe just maybe I should hop back in, it sure seems that I should not have any trouble getting the basic effect since I can order a circuit.
But moreover it seems to me that if the magic is in the plug (otherwise why use it?) then any means of generating an AV plug oscillator should allow research into it and not just the highly efficient tiny circuits Stiffler is using, I am interested in how the plug works and not efficiency, hmmm.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 02, 2008, 03:27:19 PM
If I may then have a shot as something a little outside of reality then, so much so I doubt it.
Could it be that it is pulling in EM waves and rectifying them with the diodes? (This may sound a bit far out but Stiffler has found a field around some of these circuits that does not get weaker with distance but rather abruptly ends at a distance)

If so then a few thoughts occur.

First it would be interesting to add an antenna to the plug, I would recommend a coil made of multistrand wire, and possibly to wave coils and anything creating EM near it. (it is very likely pulling fields from the circuits that drive it, but it should be possible to add alternate fields to pull in)

Second, it may just be possibly to try this without diodes if this theory is correct, instead connect the single wire to an antenna (coil), and a load, possibly also a cap to help tune in a field, maybe deliberately detuning this from the circuit driving it, and comparing the ability to pickup a field from a nearby EM source with and without the sec active.

So don't rule out that it may be something more.

I got into this before most anyone else and am thinking that maybe just maybe I should hop back in, it sure seems that I should not have any trouble getting the basic effect since I can order a circuit.
But moreover it seems to me that if the magic is in the plug (otherwise why use it?) then any means of generating an AV plug oscillator should allow research into it and not just the highly efficient tiny circuits Stiffler is using, I am interested in how the plug works and not efficiency, hmmm.
@aether22
A few facts that are easily proven that may help in you view and idea. The efficiency of a SEC Exciter increases with decreased diode capacity. This can be easily shown by using four 1N4148's (two each in series) versus the single diodes. This can be checked by time taken to charge a particular capacitor and the resulting higher voltage. Another test is to replace the IN4148's with UF1N4007 and even try SMD UltaHigh Frequency diodes. The response, output voltage and charge efficiency can all be correlated to diode capacity. Physical size does not have a significant effect.

Now there are a few types of current flowing in a SEC Exciter (they are all conventional when its show time). The normal supply current, ionic current and coherence current. Supply and ionic current are power wasters. In fact allowing the Exciters to climb to high in voltage is not desired as there is a corresponding increase in ionic current contribution. This added ionic current will cause and show up as increase supply input current, but can be seen by monitoring both rails of the supply.

Adding an antenna or any other conductive mass as a load or enhancer is a killer of the whole process. I have stated in this thread (hinted I guess) that the whole phenomenon is taking place in the small junctions of the diodes.

Now for some sci-fi that may indeed match your thoughts. Let us imagine a water filled balloon hanging in free space, (this balloon is created by the wide band width of the exciter). If you could tether an object in the center of this filled balloon and watch its movement as you tapped simultaneously around the balloon you would see at certain times a huge response  and resulting effect on the object caused by the correct phasing of two or more of the wave fronts caused by your taps. Now if the balloon is created by the exciter and the diodes do indeed capture and turn into current this energy the SEC Exciter could be seen as showing excess energy, which indeed would be true, but it is not OU and is not manufactured or new energy.

We could carry this on in private, I lost your address when we changed computer.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kator01 on July 02, 2008, 11:42:23 PM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,

may I give this link here from Prof. Aspdens website :

Subject : The Correa-Invention

http://www.aspden.org/reports/Es8/Rep8.htm

I think plasma-properties in the neons contribute to the energy also

Kator
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on July 03, 2008, 01:23:15 AM
**Deleted by Moderator**
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on July 03, 2008, 10:49:48 AM
"The efficiency of a SEC Exciter increases with decreased diode capacity" - Mistake???  :-\

"that the whole phenomenon is taking place in the small junctions of the diodes" - But you don't need diodes (see alternate embodiments in the AV patent.)   

No, I think he means less capacitance in the diode means a stronger effect. (I had verified that by capacity he is referring to it's electrical capacitance not say current carrying capacity)

As for the version in the patent without the diode, yes but it's not entirely single wire since there is another wire going to a large conductive mass, this mass would act as a ground for these frequencies somewhat I think.

One question that just came to me is if it is possible to have say a 4 diode version as Stiffler mentioned above and have not 1 but 2 wires connect between the 2 pairs with and loads between the other 2 pairs. (diode wire diode load diode wire diode load in a circle, both wires from same oscillator)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 04, 2008, 07:54:13 PM
@All Electrolysis Interests

Why make electrolyzer so big, bulky and material intensive?

A proof of concept SEC15-3 with a slightly bigger in wire gauge output coil, doing direct electrolysis of tap water. The electrodes are the fine SS multi-strand wire I have already described.
 At first blush one would say 'No Way', but that is not the case.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 05, 2008, 05:39:49 PM
Burning water, what an interesting thought. What would it take?, large microwave generators, huge electric discharge. Sometimes the most difficult is the most easy.

I put the first video of a new short series on how to burn water the simple way. I will get the new couple up on-line as time allows.

Anyway enjoy the first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsX-j53_FDg
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 06, 2008, 12:23:43 AM
Dr. Stiffler:

Great video!!!  This is fascinating. The only other sustained flame I have heard of is the Dr. (cancer research) in FL who I think is using one or more frequencies of RF.  I am sure his power input level is at least 100 times more than yours.  I would like to see this researched more as it could be the key everyone has been looking for.  Maybe it is not "brute force" required to separate water into H and O2.  That way works, sure, but, I believe there is a better way and you may have just found it.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on July 06, 2008, 01:03:12 AM
Burning water, what an interesting thought. What would it take?, large microwave generators, huge electric discharge. Sometimes the most difficult is the most easy.

I put the first video of a new short series on how to burn water the simple way. I will get the new couple up on-line as time allows.

Anyway enjoy the first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsX-j53_FDg

Good evening Dr. Stiffler,

Very good video.  I have one question that has always bothered me about this and similar processes.  Where does the electrons go that were part of the water molecule when it is broken down into oxygen and hydrogen and then burned?  It seems that oversimplification would indicate there is a electrical energy source generation process here somewhere.  The efficiency of your process is what piques my curiosity and hence the question.

Ben
Moderator:
Ben,
I don't follow your question, are you saying that the orbitals are stripped from the nucleus during the recombination of the H&O? In a simple real world condition the H&O combine back into water. The activity during which electrons move about is during the disassociation and this is driven by the energy into the cell. During the burning process the molecules again bond via the orbitals.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on July 06, 2008, 01:25:08 AM
@All Electrolysis Interests

Why make electrolyzer so big, bulky and material intensive?

A proof of concept SEC15-3 with a slightly bigger in wire gauge output coil, doing direct electrolysis of tap water. The electrodes are the fine SS multi-strand wire I have already described.
 At first blush one would say 'No Way', but that is not the case.



It seems you have found a way to do it (AV plug) with a single diode!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 06, 2008, 01:58:15 AM
Dr. Stiffler:

Great video!!!  This is fascinating. The only other sustained flame I have heard of is the Dr. (cancer research) in FL who I think is using one or more frequencies of RF.  I am sure his power input level is at least 100 times more than yours.  I would like to see this researched more as it could be the key everyone has been looking for.  Maybe it is not "brute force" required to separate water into H and O2.  That way works, sure, but, I believe there is a better way and you may have just found it.

Bill
@Pirate88179
Bill it's not what it seems at first look. I will be updating my site (Electrolysis Page) as I move from one video to the next. The burning is a combination of Hydrogen, Oxygen and other components as in the 'Kanzius' work, where a component must be NaCl in his flame or some other chemical or element. You will see as I work on the page that it can not be pure hydrogen and or hydrogen and oxygen do to the burn speed of Hydrogen.

This is not a revelation, it will although be an explanation.

Thanks for looking.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 06, 2008, 02:18:34 AM
It seems you have found a way to do it (AV plug) with a single diode!
@aether22

No, not unless I am missing something. Look at the circuit again and think of the input as a series of unidirectional pulses. The environmental connection is via the mass of the water itself. As seen the electrodes are not biased in a symmetrical way. During operation the electrodes see a minimum voltage of the diode drop to a very high voltage when the diode is reverse biased. The environment supplies energy during this part of the cycle.
Title: Question please
Post by: Lattice333 on July 06, 2008, 02:59:51 PM
Dr Stiffler and friends

Can I ask a question please?

I remove the neon from the SEC15-3 board and the output of the choke is connected to a remote AV plug+neon via a single wire. The remote neon is lit until I close my hand around the single wire. When my hand holds the single wire the neon is extinguished. What is being blocked by my hand?

thanks

Lattice333
Title: Re: Question please
Post by: DrStiffler on July 06, 2008, 08:52:39 PM
Dr Stiffler and friends

Can I ask a question please?

I remove the neon from the SEC15-3 board and the output of the choke is connected to a remote AV plug+neon via a single wire. The remote neon is lit until I close my hand around the single wire. When my hand holds the single wire the neon is extinguished. What is being blocked by my hand?

thanks

Lattice333
Humm.... Why do I get the feeling I know you?

So you have not considered the fact that you are detuning the exciter with you body mass with what has now become an antenna?

Just a thought  :D
Title: Re: Question please
Post by: forest on July 06, 2008, 10:29:36 PM
Humm.... Why do I get the feeling I know you?

So you have not considered the fact that you are detuning the exciter with you body mass with what has now become an antenna?

Just a thought  :D

Dr Stiffler,

Is there any sure method to differentiate possibly two events : de-tuning SEC exciter from shorting  energy path to the ground throught the body mass ? I saw strange effect (I wish  someone could confirm it) - touch one neon lead and light vanish,restart circuit,then touch another lead and light seems to become stronger.WARNING! I DON'T RECOMMEND DOING THIS! IT HURTS!!!! ANYWAY DO NOT DO IT LONGER THEN A SECOND.I feel that I should use insulated metal plate instead of my hand but I have no one nearby...
Title: Re: Question please
Post by: DrStiffler on July 07, 2008, 12:45:00 AM
Dr Stiffler,

Is there any sure method to differentiate possibly two events : de-tuning SEC exciter from shorting  energy path to the ground throught the body mass ? I saw strange effect (I wish  someone could confirm it) - touch one neon lead and light vanish,restart circuit,then touch another lead and light seems to become stronger.WARNING! I DON'T RECOMMEND DOING THIS! IT HURTS!!!! ANYWAY DO NOT DO IT LONGER THEN A SECOND.I feel that I should use insulated metal plate instead of my hand but I have no one nearby...
@forest
Sorry but I am not sure I understand your question and what you were doing, but let me offer an example.

A Exciter can do some very strange things with the local environment, under 10m and some interesting things at 1m or less. An example is the holding of a neon by one lead and touching it to the exciter. The neon will light and under conditions I do not understand, you can pull the neon away from the exciter and the neon will remain glowing as string as it did when touching the exciter. In fact I have a video where this can be seen. You can place the neon on a surface and it will extinguish when you let go of it. Some times you can pick it back up and it will light. The flip side is the times it will never work. I think when strange things start to take place its time to turn the video on.

Okay maybe I did ot answer the question as you wish. Maybe if you ask in a bit different way or with more detail I will get it. The more you work with one and the more you try, the stranger it all seems.
Title: Re: Question please
Post by: aether22 on July 07, 2008, 01:26:59 AM
@forest
Sorry but I am not sure I understand your question and what you were doing, but let me offer an example.

A Exciter can do some very strange things with the local environment, under 10m and some interesting things at 1m or less. An example is the holding of a neon by one lead and touching it to the exciter. The neon will light and under conditions I do not understand, you can pull the neon away from the exciter and the neon will remain glowing as string as it did when touching the exciter. In fact I have a video where this can be seen. You can place the neon on a surface and it will extinguish when you let go of it. Some times you can pick it back up and it will light. The flip side is the times it will never work. I think when strange things start to take place its time to turn the video on.

Okay maybe I did ot answer the question as you wish. Maybe if you ask in a bit different way or with more detail I will get it. The more you work with one and the more you try, the stranger it all seems.


This is all so clearly a case of pulling and pushing fields by the aether, or creating aetherically boosted ion streams in other cases. (Boyd Bushman mentions in his patent how his aethero-magnetic beamer can increase the discharge of a VDG terminal from a fraction of an inch to many feet, similar conduction through dielectrics are noted in the TMB as well as others)

I assume when you mention that you can pull it away and it will stay lit you mean it was not lit without connection to the SEC beforehand?

This is essentially the same as one twin feeling what is going on with another twin, if you can energize the aether and create a link it will you will turn something which would have little or no coupling into a high coupling, interestingly you see low coupling situations in most FE designs.

Now one interesting question, if you make a coil and put a sine wave of a specific frequency through it, and make another coil to pickup it's signal, will you be able to pull or push signal this by adding a SEC to either the transmitter or the receiver?

It is quite possible the SEC will carry this other introduced signal.
Another thought is to add a magnet to a SEC powered motor and see if being SEC powered increases the coupling from the rotor magnet to a coil. (although this is assuming the rotor magnet becomes fully saturated by the energetic conditions the SEC creates)

I actually looked at Harti's and JLN's Joseph Newman motor research yesterday and it clearly creates the negative current they saw by enhancing the rotors induction of the stator coil.

Attached is one possibility that might just work if tried with a higher powered SEC.

Title: Re: Question please
Post by: forest on July 07, 2008, 09:37:33 AM
@forest
Sorry but I am not sure I understand your question and what you were doing, but let me offer an example.

A Exciter can do some very strange things with the local environment, under 10m and some interesting things at 1m or less. An example is the holding of a neon by one lead and touching it to the exciter. The neon will light and under conditions I do not understand, you can pull the neon away from the exciter and the neon will remain glowing as string as it did when touching the exciter. In fact I have a video where this can be seen. You can place the neon on a surface and it will extinguish when you let go of it. Some times you can pick it back up and it will light. The flip side is the times it will never work. I think when strange things start to take place its time to turn the video on.

Okay maybe I did ot answer the question as you wish. Maybe if you ask in a bit different way or with more detail I will get it. The more you work with one and the more you try, the stranger it all seems.


Could you post that video ? It is unbelievable effect!

Are you saying that you are able to lit neon first but keeping neon by one lead and touching exciter while second AV output lead is not connected to anything and then the same even without connection to the AV output leads?


Well,my experiments are so striking.The only thing I've already tested is a test with insulated plate.If I connect that plate to one of the terminals of neon and carefully adjust frequency, there is a sweet spot when neon is shining bright and flicker.Then by positioning a hand nearby the plate I can turn neon light off and by slowly going away the neon remains off  . Quite opposite,when I do this fast - the neon is lit again.
Connecting insulated plate to the second lead of neon seems to just rise a bit light intensity but much stronger neon light is generated when again I place a hand near the plate. I believe there is also a possibility to set such 'sweet spot' when neon is originally off and lights up only when placing hand nearby the plate.

Please excuse me if this is something normal but it was a really something new to me.Also I feel a kind of electrostatic field around the plate, something similar to what occurs near to the insulated HV cable  from car coil.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on July 07, 2008, 09:38:55 AM
I wanted to say :
Well,my experiments are NOT so striking. Sorry for a typo
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on July 08, 2008, 10:38:36 PM
Quote
I remove the neon from the SEC15-3 board and the output of the choke is connected to a remote AV plug+neon via a single wire. The remote neon is lit until I close my hand around the single wire. When my hand holds the single wire the neon is extinguished. What is being blocked by my hand?

When you touch the wire you are capacitively coupling the signal to ground. If you run the exciter into say a 4ft piece of wire to an AV-plug on the end the effect will be more pronounced when you touch the wire. The are a lot of interesting things you can do with the AV-plug. You will find that if you connect a small cap to ground from one or other side of the Neon/LED you will boost the output.

1. I have the exciter implemented on a prototyping board. If I take the output from the inductor and connect it one hole away from the AV-plug the diodes still light (i.e. there is no electrical connection to the plug). Each hole that I move the connection away from the plug leads to a diminishing output from the plug.

2. If you connect the AV-plug to a UHF/VHF antenna via coax you will find that you can can light one or more LEDS provided one leg of the plug is connected to ground.

@DrStiffler

You asked me to explain how this thing works...perhaps facetiously..First, I believe that its really all about the AV-plug and the the exciter (which is really nothing more than an oscillator outputing reactive power) .... I have not had time to conduct any of your electrolysis experiments using a single diode. As I have already stated, the two diodes form a half wave rectifier when a nonlinear device like a LED or neon is connected on the output (any of these types of device form a regulator) which creates a DC potential determined by their breakdown voltage. The AC component can be used to drive further plugs in series but at each stage the ripple voltage as it should correctly be called diminishes in magnitude, so there is limit to the number of stages. Indeed, the AV-plug is very good at capturing even small amounts of reactive power as my antenna example above illustrates. What I find interesting is that the input to the plug from the antenna is a pretty decent square wave, the fundamental frequency of which is 60 hz (mains voltages), but the plug must also be summing up the odd RF frequency harmonics as well to give me a square wave. If I had the means I'd like to connect the plug to a electret to see what kind of power levels I could pull from the air as it were.




Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on July 09, 2008, 04:02:18 PM
Dr Stiffler and friends,

thanks for your replies to my last question.

Dr Stiffler your comments about lighting a neon with only one leg held are facinating. Has anyone had successfully replicated?

The photos attached are a standard SEC15-3 copy. I removed one half of the AV plug and soldered the neon bulb to the incoming cathode of the remaining diode (connected to a choke). The neon receives AC and both filaments glow.

The first two photos show one neon leg connected to circuit and the other connected to aluminium plate.

The other photos show neon lit with only one leg connected to circuit. The other neon leg is disconnected. In this case the neon appears to be lit due to a tiny amount of capacitive coupling through the neon glass and rubber gloves to my fingers. The tuning is critical and the neon glows where ever it is touched - like a plasma light. The power supply reading is unchanged whether neon is lit or not.

Can anyone please assist understanding how the neon can light with one leg connected to the circuit?

thanks

Lattice333
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PCB on July 10, 2008, 01:44:59 AM
@Lattice333

I can confirm that the neon does indeed light in the circuit configurations you have posted. You appear to have the neon directly connected to output of the oscillator and not through the diode, either way I believe that this is nothing more mysterious that capacitive couple to ground (earth) of the free end of the wire, adding a metal plate will increase the capacitive coupling. Connect the free end to ground and it should still stay lite but much brighter.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MADMARV74 on July 11, 2008, 03:06:09 AM
 I'm building my hho driver board and on the high frequency side there was suppose to be a 200 nF 16v capacitor in the cricuit. I placed a big order and receive my components from ....... But I'm missing the 200nF cap. Does anyone think I can place 2 100 nF capacitors in series and get same results as 200nF?

**Edit by Moderator**
Are you on the wrong thread?

Hook in series you get 50nF, two 100's in parallel will give your 200.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 14, 2008, 02:22:00 AM
The new Reactor Cell appears to have serious problems with stainless steel. After a 6 hour run a new bolt and nut were destroyed as seen in the following pictures. I have never had this happen wit SS before in any of my cells, but of course the reactor is a bit different.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on July 14, 2008, 06:22:33 AM
I have never had this happen wit SS before in any of my cells, but of course the reactor is a bit different.

(micro)Cavitation is a good sign but a huge problem.

BTW: impressing.

rgds.


Or should we call it (nano)cavitation
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanti on July 18, 2008, 05:37:20 PM
Well I also just replicated your electrolysis circuit. What can I say: It works...
After some testing one thing really showed up: This thing doesn't behave as a normal electrolysis would!
It is far not as distance and water resistance dependable as normal electrolysis.

The funny thing is, after I charged some water by hangig some single HV DC wire in a bottle, and took the wire out again, I realized what static electricity is, after I touched the water...OUCH...(it seems water has quite some static capacity)
This was a long time ago. I then thought, what if one does do electrolysis like that. Which means charge the water through a wire and then discharge it again through another wire. But one after the other, not at the same time. Like that it will never be possible that some current will flow through the water. But as I'm actually a very busy man, I didn't ever try to actually build a circuit for tests...It seems now, that I should have done it...But thanks to you, I now have. For as I see it, this is exactly what your circuit does. What do you think about it?
And when I look at your circuit I have to say, some little modifications, and you have a Stan Meyer Circuit.

But one thing I observed while measuring the circuit with my oscilloscopse. In my circuit the voltage spike on the transistor collector gets easily up and above 100V. And the transistor is actually only made to withstand 100V. So the transistor is really running at the limit...
The voltage levels on the electrolysis electrodes actually show, that due to the fact that one now does not allow current to flow from one electrode to the other at the same time, it is now possible to charge the water to high voltage levels (in my case 50V), but without the problem of an excessive current flowing.
Now, what could we expect if we drive the voltage levels up to 40kV like Stan Meyer did... 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 18, 2008, 07:09:45 PM
Well I also just replicated your electrolysis circuit. What can I say: It works...
After some testing one thing really showed up: This thing doesn't behave as a normal electrolysis would!
It is far not as distance and water resistance dependable as normal electrolysis.

The funny thing is, after I charged some water by hangig some single HV DC wire in a bottle, and took the wire out again, I realized what static electricity is, after I touched the water...OUCH...(it seems water has quite some static capacity)
This was a long time ago. I then thought, what if one does do electrolysis like that. Which means charge the water through a wire and then discharge it again through another wire. But one after the other, not at the same time. Like that it will never be possible that some current will flow through the water. But as I'm actually a very busy man, I didn't ever try to actually build a circuit for tests...It seems now, that I should have done it...But thanks to you, I now have. For as I see it, this is exactly what your circuit does. What do you think about it?
And when I look at your circuit I have to say, some little modifications, and you have a Stan Meyer Circuit.

But one thing I observed while measuring the circuit with my oscilloscopse. In my circuit the voltage spike on the transistor collector gets easily up and above 100V. And the transistor is actually only made to withstand 100V. So the transistor is really running at the limit...
The voltage levels on the electrolysis electrodes actually show, that due to the fact that one now does not allow current to flow from one electrode to the other at the same time, it is now possible to charge the water to high voltage levels (in my case 50V), but without the problem of an excessive current flowing.
Now, what could we expect if we drive the voltage levels up to 40kV like Stan Meyer did... 
@Shanti
If you really want to charge the water in your cell you can also turn it into a pretty good capacitor with Na2B4O7 (Sodium tetraborate decahydrate) or common Borax. A dielectric film will form on most electrodes and the cell can hold a very good charge. I have indeed been brought back to reality a number of time when I forget and disconnect with both leads, (dumb idea anyway).

My web site is now only up on weekends (extreme cost of utility power), but you might want to check in on a weekend and get an update, even though it is still about 4 months behind the work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanti on July 19, 2008, 10:28:23 AM
I will look at your site. Thank you.

Well I just replaced the coil, with a  much bigger one (0.3H). And LOL, if the readings on my power supply would be correct, I now generate electricity ( - 0.07A, before I had +0.05A) LOL (and this is quite a professional power supply)
Sure this reading is a measurement error due to the HF impulses. But now I can understand why so many people with other devices are so easily convinced they developed an OU device...and then disappointed if they are not able to close the loop...
If only I had more time...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on July 19, 2008, 12:08:36 PM
I will look at your site. Thank you.

Well I just replaced the coil, with a  much bigger one (0.3H). And LOL, if the readings on my power supply would be correct, I now generate electricity ( - 0.07A, before I had +0.05A) LOL (and this is quite a professional power supply)
Sure this reading is a measurement error due to the HF impulses. But now I can understand why so many people with other devices are so easily convinced they developed an OU device...and then disappointed if they are not able to close the loop...
If only I had more time...
You can play that game so far that you blow the internal electrolytic cap of
the supply. Thats the reason why a "good" powersupply from hp/agilent may
cost more than $1000,-.
I blow the cap of my $250,- Powersupply with the back-emf of my stepper motors...
Replaced the (dead) output electrolyte with a LOW-ESR 105deg. type - and soldered
a capacitor bank with mixed SMD ceramic and foil capacitors(some uF) to the output
terminals of the supply. (dont add more capacity as original installed - the voltage regulator
can handle only a limited amount of capacity).
Now I can drive slightly inductive or HF loads without stupid voltage/current readings (you
shouldn?t trust them anyway if you have inductors on board).
Even if working with a car type pb battery - you should use a capacitor bank in parallel - .

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanti on July 22, 2008, 10:30:19 AM
Quote
I blow the cap of my $250,- Powersupply with the back-emf of my stepper motors...

LOL, well mine did cost about $500.

Well with your advice of the caps it should be possible to get more or less usable readings at least for this application, as the transistor has some frequency limit, but I think if you use really UHF Impulses (like from a Spark gap), you will have such high frequency components in it that it's almost impossible to measure them anymore correctly. Especially if they are not only HF but also HighVoltage.
The parasitic components (inductance and capacitance) of even a normal shunt resistors (and of course the wiring) will then surface and badly influence your readings...
Do you know of any method, other than the good old heat wire power meters to measure accurate in these conditions?
For I for myself, when I watch some YouTube videos of e.g. a Newman or a Bedini, showing the reading on conventional Digital-Meter, just have to laugh. For this actually doesn't show anything, but the lack of understanding, how to measure correctly.

@Stiffler:
Did you try, at which frequency the electrolysis starts to work?
I for myself, just tried it with 50Hz (mains freq). Took a Neon transformer and 2 diodes at one side (other side at GND). No electrolysis. But the "capacitance" of the water is enough to easily get sparks if you have one cable in the water and the other above it. I would really like to know, what would be the minimum frequency to get an electrolysis with this method.
Seems, like when I got some time, I will have to do sime freq-sweep...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on July 22, 2008, 09:18:18 PM
LOL, well mine did cost about $500.

Well with your advice of the caps it should be possible to get more or less usable readings at least for this application, as the transistor has some frequency limit, but I think if you use really UHF Impulses (like from a Spark gap), you will have such high frequency components in it that it's almost impossible to measure them anymore correctly. Especially if they are not only HF but also HighVoltage.
The parasitic components (inductance and capacitance) of even a normal shunt resistors (and of course the wiring) will then surface and badly influence your readings...
Do you know of any method, other than the good old heat wire power meters to measure accurate in these conditions?
For I for myself, when I watch some YouTube videos of e.g. a Newman or a Bedini, showing the reading on conventional Digital-Meter, just have to laugh. For this actually doesn't show anything, but the lack of understanding, how to measure correctly.

Its quite easy to get rid of vhf and uhf.
Take a 2-3m long wire pair(or 100m), mount up to 100 different ferrite pearls,
and the stuff is gone.
If you want to be on the safe side, take a camera which films the meters,
put the powersupply  into a mu metal box, filter the output, feed it with
wire thru hole caps outside, take the next bigger mu metal box, do the
same ... and so on (and dont forget to put as much ferrite pearls as you
can get everywhere)
Its only a matter of effort and money.

But who knows what happens inside those mu metal boxes ?

Maybe there?s something relativistic going on ;-)))))


rgds.

Well, you have the camera.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 23, 2008, 02:32:03 AM
LOL, well mine did cost about $500.

Well with your advice of the caps it should be possible to get more or less usable readings at least for this application, as the transistor has some frequency limit, but I think if you use really UHF Impulses (like from a Spark gap), you will have such high frequency components in it that it's almost impossible to measure them anymore correctly. Especially if they are not only HF but also HighVoltage.
The parasitic components (inductance and capacitance) of even a normal shunt resistors (and of course the wiring) will then surface and badly influence your readings...
Do you know of any method, other than the good old heat wire power meters to measure accurate in these conditions?
For I for myself, when I watch some YouTube videos of e.g. a Newman or a Bedini, showing the reading on conventional Digital-Meter, just have to laugh. For this actually doesn't show anything, but the lack of understanding, how to measure correctly.

@Stiffler:
Did you try, at which frequency the electrolysis starts to work?
I for myself, just tried it with 50Hz (mains freq). Took a Neon transformer and 2 diodes at one side (other side at GND). No electrolysis. But the "capacitance" of the water is enough to easily get sparks if you have one cable in the water and the other above it. I would really like to know, what would be the minimum frequency to get an electrolysis with this method.
Seems, like when I got some time, I will have to do sime freq-sweep...
@Shanti
Scanning water with various frequencies to observe response is problematic at best. I spent considerable time doing this and was fooled until I caught on. You need a fresh cell each time you change frequency otherwise as the ion concentration build from successive tests al of a sudden you see gas and think this is the one. Yet do the same test in a fresh cell and you will see it is not so.

I did scans all the way to 1Mhz in various steps. Sweeping the cell presents the same problem with build up ions.

Now if you scan with capacitive coupling, that is a whole new ball game.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on July 29, 2008, 03:06:40 AM
Doc,

What has happened to your website, it's not accessible anymore?

Did you take it down or you are being el-cheapo by not wanting to pay $4/mo for shared hosting on the Net.

Hell I'll host your site on my private server for free if you want?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 29, 2008, 01:27:49 PM
Doc,

What has happened to your website, it's not accessible anymore?

Did you take it down or you are being el-cheapo by not wanting to pay $4/mo for shared hosting on the Net.

Hell I'll host your site on my private server for free if you want?
@amigo
Well we do not have a device big enough (yet) to run the three servers, web,ftp and vpn. I keep them separate for security. But where I live the energy has gone to $0.21557 per kwr. It now costs about $8.50 a day to run them (AC cooling also factored in. Received some aid, but we agreeded to put it into research.

Unless I announce something here or youtube, my outsider hit counts could run below 5-10 a day. Then when something happens it would explode to 1-2gig downloads a day, then die again.

So logic says, why?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on July 30, 2008, 04:59:04 AM
@Doc

That's why I said to run the Web off-site. No reason to keep it in-house when you can get cheap hosting everywhere with excellent features and bandwidth.

Just don't tell me you are running in-house for security reasons because I'll slap you right there. To even consider putting anything not-for-public on your web server is the first and biggest security concern. :)

Otherwise, turning the web server on only when you have an update sort of beats the point of sharing the information because how will visitors know there is an update to begin with, especially if they are not following this thread?

Just my 2c, add it to your power bill :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on July 31, 2008, 04:15:34 PM
Here's a party trick for you all to try.

Connect a 7w incandesant bulb (mains power) by one wire, lower it upside down into a jar of water until everything is under water except the single connecting wire. Power the single wire with a SEC15-3 with AV plug removed and the bulb lights up! Enjoy the puzzled looks this gets.

Does RF behave like that? Dr Stiffler? Aether22?

out of focus photos follow.

Enjoy
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on July 31, 2008, 07:23:35 PM
Here's a party trick for you all to try.

Connect a 7w incandesant bulb (mains power) by one wire, lower it upside down into a jar of water until everything is under water except the single connecting wire. Power the single wire with a SEC15-3 with AV plug removed and the bulb lights up! Enjoy the puzzled looks this gets.

Does RF behave like that? Dr Stiffler? Aether22?

out of focus photos follow.

Enjoy
@Lattice333

"Excellent Demo"

Assuming its how you show and say it (because I need to try it) I will stick my neck out a little (maybe to much).

There is a better interface to the lattice via water coupling than is found in ambient air. It would seem to me that if you left it long enough there should be a change in the water.

What do you mean by (mains)?, you are powering the SEC from a power supply and not battery? Sorry I did not follow that.

Anyhow I will try it, very interesting experiment.

Dr.S.

Gee I thought the thread was dead...............



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jonesbeene on July 31, 2008, 09:00:47 PM
Lattice333

Excellent -- and with implications going far beyond a party trick !

Have you heard of the Kanzius salt-water splitting technique?

The frequencies used in that experiment are within the same harmonic spectrum as the SEC.

It could turn out that the Kanzius device is creating the same kind of spatial coherence zone -- and with the net result of producing hydrogen.

Of course he is using much higher input - 300 watts of RF - while the SEC board outputs less than one watt, but still that will split enough water to support a flame, under certain circumstances.  Dr. Stifler has a video on YouTube  (not using salt water however) to show something similar, and hopefully soon there will be another video showing something similar but more robust.

It might be worth your time to dissolve about 5-10 % by weight sea-salt (requires heat) in your water to see if you get any gas evolved from the one watt into a bulb instead of an electrode. I am not sure if the glass bulb will limit the effect or not. Kanzius reportedly uses a gold colloid in addition to salt, but MnO (manganese oxide) also acts as a catalyst for RF water-splitting.

Jones
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kator01 on August 01, 2008, 01:32:41 AM
Hi Lattice,

now do try this :

1) extend this experiment for some longer period - lets say 60 min. and find out if the glow diminishes and finally disappears.Water has the ability to store a certain amount of charge and if equilibrium is reached the flow of charges stops.
By then be careful not to touch the water with your bare fingers because you might get a shock of a few hundret or thousand volts !

2) Isolate the second terminal of the bulb ( the metal cap i.e the screw thread undercut) with some wax or epoxy in order to avoid contact with the water. Isolate it beyond the border reaching close to the middle electrode.
The high frequency has it capacity-coupling area to the water right here. It would be interesting to see what happens then.
I would assume that the glowing of the wolfram-wire will dissappear since there is no way out for the HF.

Kator

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 01, 2008, 06:58:46 AM
@Dr Stiffler glad you enjoyed my pictures. I hope this thread keeps going because we have only scratched the surface yet. I love your work, web site, and the effort you put in.

Back to the party trick. By mains power I meant the bulb is rated at 7w at 240V. I will leave on and see if the water acquires charge.

@jonesbeene - I will try salt water and report back

@Kator - Bulb extinguishes if metal screw section is not in contact with water. Will report back on extended run.

My last pictures were poorly focused some more attached. Notice my home made SEC15-3 now has no ferrite slug and is running on 30v @.07A.

How about a replication to back me up before the next trick?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 01, 2008, 08:02:15 PM
@Lattice333 @All

This may not power the world or save us any money (yet), but for a trick that begs questions this is great, really great and simple to do.

Thank You......

And here is your replication, the picture with the neon bulb is when I hold it and touch the water.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 01, 2008, 08:23:08 PM
@Lattice333

Hey? Your next trick is not going to be sound is it????????????

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: waterhouse24 on August 01, 2008, 08:35:00 PM
Hi Dr Stiffler,

 I'd like to build your SEC circuit but don't fancy reading 50 pages to get up to date.. Has the circuit schematic changed from page 2? If so what are the best pages from the last 50 to read?


***************
Disregard that it seems your thread is meant to be worked on from start to finish.. (not like other threads, this one seems to have a nice structure..) see you in xxx days after catching up ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 01, 2008, 08:36:39 PM
@All

Generation II was gone committed and gone before even the parts arrived, and I am glad because I made a big mistake, I designed with surface mount components, this is NOT something a small lab wants to do by hand. So they are gone, the owners are happy and I am happy I do not have to do this again.

Generation 3, Standard non-surface mount components, but 10-15 watts.

I will not commit until I know someone would have interest, like 100 people. I will be honest and say I lost my behind on G2 because I tried to be modern and up beat. What I now know is that people want something they can work with, change some critical parts and see the result and of course have something that does something that can be easily shown as 'different'.

So in G3 if I do it, the circuits will have sockets for all parts that have a major effect on operation. Coils will be standard and not special hand wound units, the circuit boards will have bigger foil strips should they every need repair.

Anyway if you would have interest you can send email to stifflerscientific at embarqail.com.

What's it do, you know I can't say what it does :-)

Don't wait to let me know, I have a lead time of in excess of three weeks from my commit and design date.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 01, 2008, 09:34:22 PM
Here's a party trick for you all to try.

Connect a 7w incandesant bulb (mains power) by one wire, lower it upside down into a jar of water until everything is under water except the single connecting wire. Power the single wire with a SEC15-3 with AV plug removed and the bulb lights up! Enjoy the puzzled looks this gets.

Does RF behave like that? Dr Stiffler? Aether22?

out of focus photos follow.

Enjoy

It isn't a trick, really works.  See picture below of my lamp lit!  Black lead is from SEC, Red clip is just a clip holding the bulb down in the water.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 01, 2008, 10:13:02 PM
Hi Gang,

Here is a another one.......Small bulb with one wire going to it and I'm holding the ground.  Standard Stiffler exciter......



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 02, 2008, 12:02:06 AM
@Interested

To follow up on the Lattice333 experiment, replication by K4ZEP and myself, the next step is interesting.

Take a beaker of water, know quantity of water in grams or mL, use a glass thermometer, digital will not work and a couple of cotton towels. Let the water, thermometer and light bulb sit for at least an hour in the open (hope you don't use a gallon of water. Once the water temp reaches ambient, wrap the container and cover the top with the cotton cloth. Turn on the power to the SEC. After about two hours, measure and record the temp of the water and the ambient.

Now knowing the input voltage and current to the SEC and the temp and amount of water, what happened, anything of value or significant?

   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 02, 2008, 04:52:15 PM
@LATTICE333 and All

I have taken you experiment up a peg or two, don't you think?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WP_i4Nu510
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 02, 2008, 04:52:45 PM
@DrStiffler & Kz4ep Thank you for replicating my setup. Great work. I wish I had some of your test equipment!

@DrStiffler Gen3 sounds great - put me down for one. I'm excited. I could not follow how to register interest?

I think my party trick raises many serious questions which we can gain from if we pause and share our thoughts and questions.

Some questions is would be good to consider and discuss;

Why is this type of bulb particularly friendly to the reception of energy from the lattice. Is it the higher than usual resistance? The longer than usual filament length or something else?

Why is water a "better interface to the lattice"? Diamagnetic property, dielectric property or something else?

Does the lattice respond to different substances at different rates? Could the variation create energy that can be tapped? How would you amplify the variation?

How do we get the bulb fully lit?

 


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 02, 2008, 04:57:15 PM
@DrStiffler & Kz4ep Thank you for replicating my setup. Great work. I wish I had some of your test equipment!

@DrStiffler Gen3 sounds great - put me down for one. I'm excited. I could not follow how to register interest?

I think my party trick raises many serious questions which we can gain from if we pause and share our thoughts and questions.

Some questions is would be good to consider and discuss;

Why is this type of bulb particularly friendly to the reception of energy from the lattice. Is it the higher than usual resistance? The longer than usual filament length or something else?

Why is water a "better interface to the lattice"? Diamagnetic property, dielectric property or something else?

Does the lattice respond to different substances at different rates? Could the variation create energy that can be tapped? How would you amplify the variation?

How do we get the bulb fully lit?

 



@Lattice333

See the video, answers some of your questions. The others would better be in a College Lecture, the answers would cause such a back lash in this format that I will not even consider it.

Hey! Haven't you got the light in the water to sing yet???

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 02, 2008, 09:53:59 PM
@Lattice333

See the video, answers some of your questions. The others would better be in a College Lecture, the answers would cause such a back lash in this format that I will not even consider it.

Hey! Haven't you got the light in the water to sing yet???



Nah, my bulb is tone deaf!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: waterhouse24 on August 02, 2008, 10:59:08 PM
Well i'm about half way through the thread and there are some fascinating experiments going on.. But there are many references to DR Stiffler's website but everytime I try to access the site, it's down? is there another place to find the information referenced?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on August 02, 2008, 11:06:45 PM
Here's a photo of two SEC-15's connected to one bulb. One connected to the center the other connected to the outer base (no water). The power output appears to be additive. The two SEC-15's were tuned for maximum light output of the lamp.

RD

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 03, 2008, 12:37:00 AM
Well i'm about half way through the thread and there are some fascinating experiments going on.. But there are many references to DR Stiffler's website but everytime I try to access the site, it's down? is there another place to find the information referenced?
@waterhouse24

Parts all over the place, problem is most is old and incomplete.

Try during the next few days;  www.drstiffler.com
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Arioch on August 03, 2008, 02:34:10 AM
Dr. Stiffler

I'm also interested in generation3 I tried emailing the address you gave in this thread but the email bounced back.  Error said   Reason:    sorry, mail to that recipient is not accepted.  I might actually want 2 of them depending on the cost.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 03, 2008, 02:49:25 AM
@All

Be Mr Wizard, maybe most of you know not of he, oh it makes no difference, how about Star Wars and Light Sabers?

This demo would be of interest to a Science Class or I hope just about anyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt6v8qDcTyg
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 03, 2008, 03:01:22 AM
Still don't have much time yet.....But I'm beyond interested. Very very interesting development!
Count me in for at least two Ron. Excellent work guys! Excellent. The WIZARD! Funny I just tore
apart a Safari Lantern today for the parts and look at what you guys are doing with tap water. I'm
impressed. Hopefully experiment time will return shortly.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 03, 2008, 03:12:22 AM
And I do remember Mr. Wizard.  ;D
Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 03, 2008, 03:55:04 AM
DR STIFFLER  over 100000 reads   this thread is cooking with interest  your vids [and others ] give goose bumps   put me down for gen 3 too   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 03, 2008, 08:13:18 AM
On the following thread Clarence1984 uses graphite plates for electrolysis.
He stated that SS plates don't last very long but graphite will last for many years.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5125.msg118005/topicseen.html#msg118005

So maybe someone can try replacing SS with graphite and test how well it preforms.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on August 03, 2008, 02:13:37 PM
Here's a photo of two SEC-15's connected to one bulb. One connected to the center the other connected to the outer base (no water). The power output appears to be additive. The two SEC-15's were tuned for maximum light output of the lamp.

RD



Same technique using an 8W fluorescent grow lamp and two SEC-15-3.

RD

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 03, 2008, 02:20:22 PM
And I do remember Mr. Wizard.  ;D
Jim

He was my hero too may he rest in peace.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: retrod on August 03, 2008, 02:41:04 PM
He was my hero too may he rest in peace.

Ben

I was also a big fan. I still have my official 'Mr Wizard chemistry lab' from 50 years ago.

RD
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 03, 2008, 04:07:01 PM
@All,
I just outright blew off what I was supposed to be doing today, made everybody mad, and just experimented.  ;D Sometimes you gotta just do it! Fooling around with various configurations of the water experiment allowed me to at least light a neon. I was using a pencil lead for the "carbon" rod because I don't have a large carbon rod like Dr. Stiffler used but I'm going to get some now.  ;D I did RF burn the crap out of my finger at the other end of pencil lead clip/lead electrode. I'm not done with water experiments by far.  ;D

So I also moved to driving a neon load with two SEC exciters. The first picture is a neon illuminated by dual SEC AC and the second is a neon illuminated by a capacitavely coupled full wave bridge built from 4148's also driven by dual SEC exciters. I can see myself getting into more trouble by spending large amounts of time at the bench again. There just isn't enough time in a life........... ::) More to follow for sure. Water huh? Interesting.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on August 03, 2008, 04:54:29 PM
Is there any Beta radiation from carbon rod during those experiments ? I'm asking just to be safe  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on August 03, 2008, 04:58:21 PM
Hey Doc,

That last video looks wild !

I'm wondering, does the carbon rod need to be in the water all the time?

Also, did you try to see how far away from the SEC15-3 can the water beaker be, or does it matter?

It seems to me that the carbon rod with the wire needs to be inside the spatial field of the exciter for this to work, correct?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 03, 2008, 05:05:20 PM
@All,
Everyone is REALLY mad at me now! Oh Well! Dig it. A big pancake Fan motor running on two SEC exciters driving the C coupled bridge rectifier. Mr. Wizard rules! Thanks Ron. I had forgotten how much I like that show.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 03, 2008, 05:25:29 PM
@All,
Everyone is REALLY mad at me now! Oh Well! Dig it. A big pancake Fan motor running on two SEC exciters driving the C coupled bridge rectifier. Mr. Wizard rules! Thanks Ron. I had forgotten how much I like that show.

Best regards,

Jim

Hi Loki, remove those Neons and I think your motor will run faster.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 03, 2008, 05:49:03 PM
@All

Got tired last night (old men do that sometimes) and did not get the last video up to YouTube, but I did this AM and it should be up and running by the time I finish this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7Th5zv6KgY

For the experimenters driving objects with two Exciters, have you thought about probability, like could you not assume the signals would be as much out of phase as in phase? If this were true could you think the power was only half or yet it could be twice! But could those little very simple Exciters in some way lock onto each other and maintain the correct phasing for max output? Just some food for those that might be a little hungry.

Thanks all for showing the work and taking the time. We may all have to contribute to the Hospital Bill Lokii will have after his wife gets to him :-) or maybe ;-(

Dr.S
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 03, 2008, 05:49:52 PM
Hi Ben,
I'm getting there. I was using them to look at the tuning and you can see the front SEC exciter isn't socketed yet.  ;D Good point though. I'll be doing that shortly so I have to socket that 15-3. Pulling just one throws the whole thing out of tune and then I can't get the motor to start again. It just squeals like a banshee. LOL I had the water making some strange racket this morning too! That was when I was using copper tape and a plastic container full of water. Weird stuff! I'm going to also move to the parasitic plate again too. Neat stuff. Like I said I'm geeting in trouble today so I might as well go royal.

I have to get some carbon rod for an electrode and then we shall see.
Nice work! I'm still facinated with the Fl work you and Ron have been doing. Many things to explore.

More to follow for sure.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 03, 2008, 05:59:23 PM
Ron,
With the motor running I was just fascinated watching the Neon intensity do exactly like you were saying. It phases and one will be bright and the other dimming and then hunting back and forth. Max RPM's when both are blazing and they are hot as Hades. I'm goin to try as Ben suggested to get them both socketed so I can tune and then pull them. I should be able to touch the drivers up from there. Like I said I burned my finger AGIAN! RF burn this time off of the little pencil lead and wire electrode. LOL The wife is definitely going to beat me today. In the name of science we move forward. Beatings and all. LOL
Really nice work!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 03, 2008, 07:01:04 PM
Ron,
With the motor running I was just fascinated watching the Neon intensity do exactly like you were saying. It phases and one will be bright and the other dimming and then hunting back and forth. Max RPM's when both are blazing and they are hot as Hades. I'm goin to try as Ben suggested to get them both socketed so I can tune and then pull them. I should be able to touch the drivers up from there. Like I said I burned my finger AGIAN! RF burn this time off of the little pencil lead and wire electrode. LOL The wife is definitely going to beat me today. In the name of science we move forward. Beatings and all. LOL
Really nice work!

Best regards,

Jim

Jim,

I'm catching heck for being on the computer too much....Other option is to sit and watch TV mindlessly with the "lil woman".

Which brings me to a joke sort of that seems to apply to our situations.....Just change "out with the guys" to "working on the SEC!".......

The question is:

What is the difference between...............................
 
"Guts Versus Balls"

There is a medical distinction. We've all heard about
people having guts or balls, but do you really know
the difference between them? In an effort to keep
you informed, the definitions are noted below:

GUTS - Is arriving home late after a night out with
the guys, being met by your wife with a broom, and
having the guts to ask: 'Are you still cleaning, or are
you flying somewhere?'

BALLS - Is coming home late after a night out with
the guys, smelling of perfume and beer, lipstick on
your collar, slapping your wife on the butt and
having the balls to say: 'You're next, fatty!'

I hope this clears up any confusion on the definitions.

Medically speaking, there is no difference in the
outcome, since both ultimately result in death.

Moderator, I won't be the least bit muffed if you deleat this!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 03, 2008, 07:13:31 PM
Jim,

I'm catching heck for being on the computer too much....Other option is to sit and watch TV mindlessly with the "lil woman".

Which brings me to a joke sort of that seems to apply to our situations.....Just change "out with the guys" to "working on the SEC!".......

The question is:

What is the difference between...............................
 
"Guts Versus Balls"

There is a medical distinction. We've all heard about
people having guts or balls, but do you really know
the difference between them? In an effort to keep
you informed, the definitions are noted below:

GUTS - Is arriving home late after a night out with
the guys, being met by your wife with a broom, and
having the guts to ask: 'Are you still cleaning, or are
you flying somewhere?'

BALLS - Is coming home late after a night out with
the guys, smelling of perfume and beer, lipstick on
your collar, slapping your wife on the butt and
having the balls to say: 'You're next, fatty!'

I hope this clears up any confusion on the definitions.

Medically speaking, there is no difference in the
outcome, since both ultimately result in death.

Moderator, I won't be the least bit muffed if you deleat this!
@k4zep

Nope! I'm not going to delete it, just going to send a link to your poor wife.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 03, 2008, 08:55:03 PM
I'm going to burn in hell for having the guts to laugh my balls off on that one.......Bawwwwwwwhahahahahaha! Please don't send the link to mine. I have the brains not to admit to finding that hilarious......... ;D I'm going in search of carbon rods! Bawwwhahahaha!
Good luck gentlemen,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Earl on August 03, 2008, 09:05:41 PM
@Lattice333 and others

what happens with the party trick if the water is replaced by
a tin can open at the top?  The lamp outside metal touches
the metal can.  Or any metallic object with the surface area
+ diameter of the round beaker of water?

Earl
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 03, 2008, 09:33:21 PM
@Lattice333 and others

what happens with the party trick if the water is replaced by
a tin can open at the top?  The lamp outside metal touches
the metal can.  Or any metallic object with the surface area
+ diameter of the round beaker of water?

Earl
@Earl

That is a good question Earl. I know we would all gain from the answer, problem is I will not allow the thread to be a Q&A. We get our answers by doing and reporting. We would like to help you do the test and report the results, but we are not for hire :-)

Thanks for the idea Earl.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Earl on August 03, 2008, 10:02:18 PM
**Removed**
By Dr. Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: JoinTheFun on August 03, 2008, 10:21:32 PM
**Removed**
By Dr.Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 03, 2008, 11:01:00 PM
@All

I will not allow this thread to degrade again. If you have nothing to say or can not post something of meaning, then simply go elsewhere.

I do not care who you are or how many post you have to any or all threads.

Help, replicate or stay away!

Dr.S
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 03, 2008, 11:02:27 PM
@DrStiffler  Thanks for putting up the recent videos - plenty of new ideas there for replication. Amazing progress and renewed interest on this thread. You have cetainly lifted the bar for the next party trick!

I've got some "out there" ideas to share but they would distract the thread. Better to wait till later. Replications are focus for now. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on August 03, 2008, 11:04:03 PM
You can get carbon rods from standard D cell batteries.
Please note: Alkaline, Mercury, Nickel-Cadmium, Gel-cells and Lead-acid batteries do not use carbon. You will need to use the old fashion 1.5 V standard cell. Use plastic or rubber gloves to avoid chemical burns or allergies with battery chemicals. One way to get it open is to saw it with a hacksaw down the seam on the side and pry it open till one can use a pare of pliers one each side to separate the sides from the bottom and top.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 04, 2008, 12:14:38 AM
@All,
No need to risk chemical burns from the batteries, while you wait on an order of carbon rods. The drafting supply store will have Graphite rods otherwise known as drafting pencil leads, the big ones,  ;) HB-WWNBX that work just fine. The really neat thing about this experiment is the more tubes I lit up and the more intense the plasma in the tubes the further down the supply current dropped. Very interesting experiments today. I got in trouble until the little ones saw the light bulbs and were flipping out, now I'm Mr. Wizard. I gave Dr. Stiffler and Lattice333, and K4ZEP the credit just as they deserve, the kids are awestruck and so am I. I love this! The friggin current going down the more I light.......holy crap! Great work guys!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 04, 2008, 12:37:36 AM
Loki, are they lighting at either end?  Obviously you don't have 3 bulbs with blown filaments.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 04, 2008, 12:42:36 AM
@Loki

With a clip lead short the ends of the lamp, you should see little if any change in operation.

Measuring with DVM at tube ends will read a DC voltage.

Great work, oh and a G2 or G3 in your basement lab will run lights all over the house. Down side is a Faraday Cage over the house to keep the FCC away.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 04, 2008, 02:20:47 AM
@aether22
They do in fact light from either end. It's strange sitting here looking at them glowing on the desk. LOL  8) Cool White!

@Dr. Stiffler,
Just as you stated sir. DC voltage with definite polarity. Clip lead across the bulb end to end makes no more difference than just touching or moving the bulb around. Clip lead bulb to bulb had same effect, very little. The bubble is quite large and a bulb can be kept illuminated just about anywhere on the black ABS sheet. Very interesting. I can not wait to light the FCC, I mean, faraday cage up....LOL

See the pix and once again very nice work. It was definitely worth being bitched at.

Best regards,

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 04, 2008, 02:29:17 AM
@Loki

With a clip lead short the ends of the lamp, you should see little if any change in operation.

Measuring with DVM at tube ends will read a DC voltage.

Great work, oh and a G2 or G3 in your basement lab will run lights all over the house. Down side is a Faraday Cage over the house to keep the FCC away.

I wonder if this is a near field phenomena without much long distance broadcast.....What is the RF level/density from a G3 @ say 10 feet distance on any particular frequency?  If the G3 is ?? watts, could I light FL lamps all over my boat?
Teslas wireless lighting finally done????? ::)

Ben

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tiltfulll on August 04, 2008, 05:31:32 AM
Hi guys I just looked into this thread!
I got one thing to say:WOW!
Could some one give me a summary and point me to the right direction so I can replicate?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 04, 2008, 06:03:29 AM
tiltfull, Stiffler lists all the parts for the SEC 15-3, but your best bet may be to register your interest in Stiffler's 3rd generation SEC's ASAP.

IMO this is a very clear demo of fields being carried on an aetheric connection.
If it were a bubble, well you can't break a bubble for one fluro and not the other.

I feel this discounts the idea it's an energy bubble and strengthens the idea that there is literally a fluid stream from the carbon rod (or the water activated by the carbon rod?) to the fl tube.

The question now is what else can you have the stream carry? IMO there is much evidence that fields can be carried and these fields can induce power.  Very interesting that the more bulbs the brighter they lit and the less power it pulled!

I want to get one of these and run motors/buzzers and ferrite rods with pulsed coils run near this and see if these other fields can find coupling, hmmm, coils out over fl tubes to pick it up? too many ideas.

Ok, so if you or I just want to do these neat things right away our only option is to go with this part list:

Circuit Parts List for SEC15-3 and SEC15-20
Name Ident Manufacture Part#

Q1 MPSA06 JameCo 26462
R1 1.0M ohm 1/4W 5% JameCo 691585
C1 470pF 100V 10% X7R JameCo 332612
C2 0.01uF 100V JameCo 597281
C3 0.1uF 100V JameCo 544884
C4 10uF 50V 20% JameCo 10882
L1 10uH SRF 22MHz 130mA JameCo 372171
L2-L5 22uH SRF 10MHz 140mA JameCo 372197
Semi optional:
D1 1N4001 1Amp 50V JameCo 35975
D2-D9 1N4148 Signal/Switch JameCo 743314
N1 Neon 95VAC 1.9mA JameCo 1770744
LD1-LD9 UltraBright White LEDs Hong Kong BUWLC333

Obviously some of these parts and the AV plug aren't needed to replicate these demos with lighting the tubes.

And use the diagram in the image attached and breadboard it.

Of course an AV plug can be made to work by other setups and so possibly so could this, but that's too much uncertainty for me.

I'd also note that I am not saying that coherence as Stiffler states isn't occurring, merely that it's not the whole picture of what is going on here IMO.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on August 04, 2008, 03:10:47 PM
Where can I find Carbon Rods?

I've looked at my local art supply store and they do not seem to have any drafting pencil leads at the size Loki mentions (HB-WWNBX). At best they have short graphite sticks but they seem pretty soft for what I need them for...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 04, 2008, 03:47:17 PM
Where can I find Carbon Rods?

I've looked at my local art supply store and they do not seem to have any drafting pencil leads at the size Loki mentions (HB-WWNBX). At best they have short graphite sticks but they seem pretty soft for what I need them for...
@amigo

Please don't misunderstand me, but maybe unless you really want to see the effect on you own bench, save your money for a bit. You must understand there is more to come and we have been lucky enough to get a large number of replications, many here. So go for it if you wish and you can pick up commercial rods of course from net order, but I have no knowledge o what Loki used.

Anyway if you find some I know you will be happy with the result.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on August 04, 2008, 04:54:03 PM
Hi Doc,

Thanks, I'll give it a shot anyway with what I can scoop around here. If it doesn't work then not a big deal, I'll try again - that's what experimentation is all about. :)

Otherwise I will definitely keep my eyes peeled here for future developments...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 04, 2008, 04:55:19 PM
@All
More water fun.

Oh, and yes you can do this with just mass or a long wire, but this way it takes less room and does not radiate as great a signal.

Driven by a SEC15-3.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 04, 2008, 05:57:51 PM
@All

Watch for the video, I will post a link here, what about capacitive coupled single electrode electrolysis? That might be interesting and at one watt, just think of a G3.

Teaser!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tiltfulll on August 04, 2008, 06:44:45 PM
Hi Doc,

Thanks, I'll give it a shot anyway with what I can scoop around here. If it doesn't work then not a big deal, I'll try again - that's what experimentation is all about. :)

Otherwise I will definitely keep my eyes peeled here for future developments...

Hi!
You can find those sticks on the web!

Like this:
http://www.plazaart.com/products.php?page=6000
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 04, 2008, 07:07:47 PM
Hi!
You can find those sticks on the web!

Like this:
http://www.plazaart.com/products.php?page=6000

I do not know about the pencil leads but here is where we get all the carbon for the lab

http://www.graphitestore.com/

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 04, 2008, 07:10:31 PM
**Removed**
By: Moderator
 

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 04, 2008, 07:49:04 PM
@All,
If you are going to order supplies just get the carbon rod's like Dr. Stiffler is stating. I'm ordering some but just happened to have these in my OLD SCHOOL drafting supplies.
http://www.draftingsuppliesdew.com/mall/itemdetail.asp?GroupID=10323
They worked but I wonder about surface area...... ???

@Dr. Stiffler,
Nice work Doc.....You know I was messing with two rods this morning..... ;D

Can't wait to see the video.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 04, 2008, 07:49:35 PM
I'm not real sure what just happened there. Removed duplicate POST.......LOKI
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 05, 2008, 01:40:50 AM
BTW my attempt to build a SEC from the plans was not successful so it's not a sure thing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 05, 2008, 02:55:50 AM
DR Stiffler   HHO  sounds great!!!  looks wild !!  can't wait for a vid  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 05, 2008, 06:20:32 AM
Any welding supply shop sells carbon welding rods.
They are called Gouging Rods.
I bought a box of 50 for $26.
They have a copper coating on them that you can just peel off, or maybe just leave it on.
If you know of a local welding shop they may even give you a few.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 05, 2008, 10:34:32 AM
In Bens latest video http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=HBLcylzgoAI
He reports 60hz AC on the tube.

This is to me a sign that this can pull in fields with possibly greater power than may be otherwise expected.

But while I am a bit apprehensive to go into detail of all I have established, lets for the moment just look at what Stiffler shows us.

He shows that somehow a fluro tube by being connected (or possibly only close?) to the output of this can light up and then it is as if an invisible connection between the carbon rod/wire and the fluro tube, one tube can be connected while another is not.

But luckily he initially used a tube where one end had a blown filament, this tube would only work when the good end was away, at first I assumed that the blown filament was doing something interesting but when it was shown non blown tubes work just fine it became clear, the reason is that the filament acts as a receiver much as his hand did with the larger tube, the receiver must drag the field through the whole tube for the effect to work, perhaps this was obvious to other right off.

I wonder if a simple filament is as good as it gets or if there may be ways to enhance the connection by adding to this filament. (tuning cap or other tunable elements? if 2 tubes are better than one would 2 filaments not be?)

Another option is to see if maybe other things can be pulled in, such as abruptly changing magnetic fields from poorly shielded electric motors or buzzers or similar sources of leaky strong fast changing magnetic fields, these could I believe induce significant excess energy.

Also what could be used to possibly intercept such a field?
I will add that if you can identify where it connects from then you may be able to add permanent or DC electromagnets and even find this field carried along as there are a few such claims of just such DC magnetic field projection. This could turn a compass or maybe attract ferrous materials.

I will have to see if I can produce anything that can with far less efficiency create a similar electrical output, not sure I can wait for gen 3 SEC's.


For any that don't believe that Stiffler is establishing a special inductive connection between the far filament and something (the SEC, Antenna or EM flux in the environment or all of these) then how can you explain that one fluro can loose power when another is being powered? The only alternative is to believe as I suppose Stiffler believes, that the tubes are (after conditioning) extracting energy directly from space thanks to the SEC's conditioning of space and the tube. (but if nothing is being pulled why does it matter which filament is connected?)
At any rate it's one of the other (or both or something in between) unless current flowing through the air is seriously considered.

And the same question would be asked, is the current filament ideal or can you do better?

hmmm, I wonder what would happen if 2 differently tuned SEC's were used, would the fluros show preference to the SEC they were conditioned/attached to or would they continue working?

Enough questions from me, I think Stiffler more or less in private email gave his permission for this musing but I doubt think his policy has changed on suggesting experiments for others to do.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on August 05, 2008, 01:59:04 PM
DrStiffler

High frequency field from SEC + carbon rods . Interesting.
I hope you have Geiger counter somewhere .... (joking  ::)) 
Seriously , what do you thing about possible Vallee Synergetic PROTELF reaction inside carbon rod caused by SEC ? I hope it's not very offtopic here
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 05, 2008, 03:19:10 PM
DrStiffler

High frequency field from SEC + carbon rods . Interesting.
I hope you have Geiger counter somewhere .... (joking  ::)) 
Seriously , what do you thing about possible Vallee Synergetic PROTELF reaction inside carbon rod caused by SEC ? I hope it's not very offtopic here
@forest

Yes I have a Thyac III and an Aton Rate meter, there is nothing coming from the carbon.

I do not know that much about the PROTELF so I can not comment with any value.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on August 05, 2008, 05:46:27 PM
Could this technology be used to kill parasites like mites?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 05, 2008, 06:44:18 PM
Could this technology be used to kill parasites like mites?

Are you looking for a Nano Tec Mite Zapper or NTMZ?

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 05, 2008, 07:13:49 PM
This may have been tried already earlier on this thread, I haven't checked every post.
But has someone taken the SEC far out into the wilderness away from any power lines.
to see how well it works there?   
Just wondering how much of the power it is accumulating comes from 50 or 60 Hz power lines.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 05, 2008, 08:57:05 PM
This may have been tried already earlier on this thread, I haven't checked every post.
But has someone taken the SEC far out into the wilderness away from any power lines.
to see how well it works there?   
Just wondering how much of the power it is accumulating comes from 50 or 60 Hz power lines.

@AbbaRue

Really, aren't we getting a bit silly again? If you do not have a running Exciter and have not seen the output on a Spectrum Analyzer, then this type of conjecture is just as much garbage as the first people that claimed localized RF from radio stations was doing it all.

Please move your idea's else where if you do not have credible comment.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on August 05, 2008, 09:19:31 PM
Are you looking for a Nano Tec Mite Zapper or NTMZ?

Ben
Maybe!! Thanks didn't know about that.  ;D

edit:
Did a google search for mite zapper, but it is mainly for bee hives and works differently than I tought.
I was thinking, could DrStifflers tech. be used as an alternative to control pests, like mites?
Maybe if these waves are tuned to the frequency of the pests?
Really don't know, maybe I should find out myself :) .
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 05, 2008, 11:53:15 PM
@WORLD

RELEASE OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OF DR. RONALD STIFFLER TO THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.

ULTRA EFFICIENT ELECTROLYSIS...........

THIS WAS GOING TO THE PATENT OFFICE, BUT AGAIN.............................. OUR FELLOW HUMANS.

HERE IT IS! I AM WILLING TO PROVIDE DETAILS IN A CONTROLLED WAY, BUT!!! GET A COPY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://67.76.235.52/DrStiffler/uee.pdf

THANK YOU....

BTW:

This is the circuit that will produce gas that can be slow burned when properly configured with a wick. It requires the addition of Sodium chloride or Magnesium Oxide to allow a gas which will support a flame.

THIS WILL PREVENT IT BEING TAKEN FROM ME AND IT WAS TO BE YOURS ANYWAY......................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 06, 2008, 12:05:00 AM
Quote
This may have been tried already earlier on this thread, I haven't checked every post.
But has someone taken the SEC far out into the wilderness away from any power lines.
to see how well it works there?   
Just wondering how much of the power it is accumulating comes from 50 or 60 Hz power lines.


@AbbaRue

Really, aren't we getting a bit silly again? If you do not have a running Exciter and have not seen the output on a Spectrum Analyzer, then this type of conjecture is just as much garbage as the first people that claimed localized RF from radio stations was doing it all.

Please move your idea's else where if you do not have credible comment.

@AbbaRue
I have looked at, captured, and analyzed the spectrum of many different SEC exciters above ground, below ground, running on line supplies and batteries, at several different locations, on at least 5 different spectrum analyzers ranging up to very high processing power and price range instruments. I have never detected a single product of nonlinear mixing with power line ambient noise. EVER!  8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 06, 2008, 12:12:37 AM
DR STIFFLER Thankyou !!!![understatement] worlds leading supplier of hydrogen and other gas raised price TODAY 30% Chet   PS this is COOL
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 06, 2008, 12:25:25 AM
Dr. Stiffler,
I don't know how many people actually understand what you just did nor do I know the details behind this move.............But THANK YOU SIR! Holy crap I did not expect that! At least not in that manner!
Damn them any way Ron!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 06, 2008, 12:38:00 AM

THIS WAS GOING TO THE PATENT OFFICE, BUT AGAIN.............................. OUR FELLOW HUMANS.

Um, if anyone thinks he's kidding, he was just yesterday doing patent application stuff, I guess not worth the risk that it will be given a secrecy order. (or whatever you call it, I don't care I've had a headache pretty solidly the last few days from I think putting my neck out)

um, obviously risk doesn't sound like the right word, sounds closer to 'impending'.  Maybe he got a tip off. Or am I just reading stuff into it?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Arioch on August 06, 2008, 02:17:03 AM
Thank you Dr. Stiffler for your contribution!!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 06, 2008, 02:40:09 AM
DR Stiffler you are a true humanitarian   looks like Grandma will be warm this winter!!   HHO that  stays burning with a wick? this is like a dream   YOU GO DOC !!!  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 06, 2008, 03:18:23 AM
Ok, so I'll ask it first, can we see a video showing how many watts in gets however much gas/heat?   Sure it was coming but it always pays to be impatient.

Would heating houses in winter be the first likely use for this? I guess it's easier than changing over autos.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 06, 2008, 03:53:06 AM
Dr. Stiffler,
I don't know how many people actually understand what you just did nor do I know the details behind this move.............But THANK YOU SIR! Holy crap I did not expect that! At least not in that manner!
Damn them any way Ron!

Best regards,

Jim

Hi Jim,

Have built his Hydrogen generator, works as advertised, will post pictures tomorrow, need to clean up work bench and document just a little bit.  Dr. Stiffler is a true gentleman and a scholar!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 06, 2008, 04:11:14 AM
Dr. Stiffler:

Way to go Doc!  Beside having investigative backgrounds, this move proves we also share the same ideals.  I want one of the new boards when released.  Thanks for all you have done, and are doing here.  If I were wearing a hat, I would tip it to you.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 06, 2008, 04:25:09 AM
Hi Jim,

Have built his Hydrogen generator, works as advertised, will post pictures tomorrow, need to clean up work bench and document just a little bit.  Dr. Stiffler is a true gentleman and a scholar!

Ben

Hi Ben,
Yes sir. I have certainly come to the exact same conclusion about Dr. Stiffler actually well before this but NOW.  :o I'm like a little kid right now waiting to rip into Christmas packages. I look forward to your documentations and pix. I will be replicating very shortly myself and I too will get some shots of the work. I have just a few more supplies to gather but for the most part I'm set to go. Most excellent! I'm pretty sure this changes everything!  ;D Oh yeah!  ;) Bubbles Bubbles everywhere..... LOL Thank's Ron!
Talk to you later.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 06, 2008, 04:30:56 AM
Ok, so I'll ask it first, can we see a video showing how many watts in gets however much gas/heat?   Sure it was coming but it always pays to be impatient.

Would heating houses in winter be the first likely use for this? I guess it's easier than changing over autos.

Dude.......did you get a SEC exciter running? Speak up for a board or 6 soon. Let me know if you need help getting the circuit running OK?
Just about anything you can imagine doing with fuel but REAL CHEAP! Hang in there buddy, the world is about to change.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Sprocket on August 06, 2008, 05:36:33 AM
Drat, link to pdf not working! - can anyone post it on rapidshare or the like?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 06, 2008, 06:24:21 AM
Dude.......did you get a SEC exciter running? Speak up for a board or 6 soon. Let me know if you need help getting the circuit running OK?
Just about anything you can imagine doing with fuel but REAL CHEAP! Hang in there buddy, the world is about to change.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim

No I didn't and will wait for the gen3 board, though if my headache subsides (or even if it doesn't) I'll take a shot at building something that MAY hopefully show effects similar to a SEC though be of a far lower effiency.

But you may have a point about the 6! I only reserved 1, hmmm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 06, 2008, 07:15:18 AM
Here it is, hope it works, not used rapidshare before (in the UL direction), I figured someone else would beat me to it but I guess not.

http://rapidshare.com/files/135187495/uee.pdf.html
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 06, 2008, 08:07:38 AM
I do have a running setup, it is based on one of your first setups running 40 leds with it.
Also used it to light up a 40 watt incandescent light bulb.
But I noticed that when I ran it with certain things plugged in in my lab
that the output was higher then when nothing else was plugged in.
I am just trying to explain why that is happening. 
One of the things I plugged in that really made a difference was an isolation transformer with
nothing plugged into it.
So I'm not being silly, I'm seeking an answer for my observations.
My setup is built on a proto board not with the parts soldered in a circuit board.
I haven't purchased the right inductors yet for the latest circuit.

Thanks for your reply Loki67671.

Sorry Dr. I will try to keep my posts more constructive.
And thankyou for your electrolyzer contribution,
it is very simular to what I had in mind to try as well after I seen the video on the SS wire in water.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 06, 2008, 09:13:18 AM
I'll have to blame the headache, but on my first skim I missed the mention of performance.

It is 96% +/- 2% efficiency

Which is of course slightly underunity, but each additional electrode pair increases efficiency by 37%, so it will quickly become significantly OU provided you are not short of carbon, diodes and that the statement hold up over an almost endless number of additional pairs (well, before the container is full of them anyway).

There are 2 concerns however, the first is that SEC's have not much input power therefore it might take many carbon rods and diode sets to get a useful gas output (assuming the stated efficiency wasn't lowered to pass inspection without raised eyebrows), at least until the medium power SEC's are shipped.

The next is that overunity production of hho/hydroxy/hydrogen/whatever is already established with effiencies of 5-10 times greater than Faraday. (though generally only in an explosive form possibly not suited to holding a flame)

Now what I can't help but wonder just a little is if this is making a type of SEC excited Joe Cell, in which case the production of gas isn't really required for running this on a car, of course that is a bit of a leap and there are many who would not be ready for the wild JC accounts out there.

Possibly the most pressing question is about the 37% increase in efficiency, I can imagine there are a few different ways to add that up, but mainly is it compound or simple interest, er I mean efficiency?
And does adding another pair increase or decrease the drain on the battery? (interestingly I have concluded no change would be best as we want more gas output not less electrical input)

If it is truly only a 37% increase then getting this useful could be a bit tricky with low powered SEC's, each added set either has to reduce the output of the other sets, or increase the drain, or both (if it does neither and has the same output it's self then it's well beyond 37% efficiency increase!) and so as you can't push much power into a SEC even if you can continually improve the efficiency you won't have a huge gas output even though it might be quite OU.

Of more interest would be to understand this, we see that the fluros decreased the battery drain as each was added and all lit up more brightly, so maybe other types of circuits can do as the fluros and carbon rods are doing, maybe tuned? tank circuits (possibly with ferrite inductors?) or diode plugs in the water or around about using carbon in some way, really what are the odds that this amplification effect only applies to fluro tubes and electrolysis? (I would note however that the circuit might need something 'special' about it).

Also is there not a chance that as each added fluro (and each carbon pair) increases the output that it is doing so because it is producing fields the others are feeding off? If so produce stronger fields!
If not then it is due to a stronger spacial (aether/lattice) disruption, in which case find ways to more powerfully disrupt 'space'.


note: After initially hating the idea of a fluffy new/old agey sounding aether, over a decade ago I found from studying these devices and much more that there is an aether (I'd stake my life on it without hesitation based on the overwhelming evidence) and Stiffler I know believes similar though I don't know how similar etc. , nor do I know if we may both be accurately describing our own part of the same elephant.  (I wonder what those unfamiliar with the allegory will think I mean)

That was just clarifying I'm not saying that lattice and aether are or aren't the same thing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 06, 2008, 12:40:21 PM
@All,
Now obviously the first thing you will need to accomplish is a correctly functioning SEC exciter or 6...LOL....I'm not kidding there.  ;D Until Dr. Stiffler decides "if" he is going to go with a professional run of G3's, you'll have to learn to build them. BY the way Ron I want 4 of those G3's please. Just let me know or better yet I'll follow up with an E-mail.  ;) There is a definite way around the FCC issue as I'm sure you are aware  ;D. I certainly have an idea of how I'm going to do it.  8) 8)
 
Once you are running a SEC exciter correctly the answers to the questions will be right in front of you. There is much work to do but the root technology has been handed over by a VERY generous man. Be thankful! As a suggestion review this thread. Many of the scaling up points are contained here also. Dr Stiffler has posted a ton of the information right here in these pages but you must start out by learning the basic exciter and that means building it and learning to make it run in SEC mode. It is unmistakable when you have it!

Like I said I have a few more items to gather and then +37% for each pair and all of the new technical troubles that will create for me.........I love it!  ;D
I'd also suggest getting a semiconductor catalog and ordering parts.......you're going to need them........... ;D

Much much more to follow....... 8)

Best regards,

Jim 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kator01 on August 06, 2008, 01:02:26 PM
Hello,

can Stefan or some other member put dr.stifflers file in the file-section here. Stiffler site is off.

Thank you

Kator
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 06, 2008, 01:09:34 PM
aether22's link above worked a minute ago.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 06, 2008, 01:12:10 PM
Hopefully, but until then I'll make this rapidshare link as easy to find as possible.

http://rapidshare.com/files/135187495/uee.pdf.html

And as for Gen 3, I hope it happens because this is going to be much harder without it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 06, 2008, 02:25:38 PM
BTW if you do want a SEC then emailing Stiffler may not be the way to go, by all means email him ASAP but leave a message on here also since he is bouncing email back with or without being read suddenly.
Probably to protect against too much email and he is likely super busy but IF he doesn't read it then...

Of course with this new development he may be working on a larger number than was planned anyway, and I could be wrong but I don't think he made this public domain while stopping the public from getting SEC's so there should be a 3rd gen.

Hmmm, not sure the plural of the SEC acronym works very well in spoken English.
Loki can you tell us your plan for safe SEC's? ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 06, 2008, 04:09:25 PM
@DrStiffler    Let me join the chorus and thank you for the rapid open release of your findings. You are paving they way for many to follow.

Some of you without SEC15-3?s are struggling to replicate SEC effect.

1) Copy the prototype board layout in the previous image I posted in reply#2205  one_wire_in_water7.jpg. This approximates the layout on SEC15-3.

2) Do the party trick in reply# 2200 at least overnight. I believe the generated SEC field takes time to grow.

3) Place fluro next to water filled jar. Connect SEC driver output (leave off AV plug) to fluro. By handling the fluro you should be able to get it to light.

4) As the field increases it gets easier ? start with small fluro?s and work you way up. When mobile and telephone communications are effected ? @DrStiffler, @Loki?  Suggestions?

The following photo?s are to encourage those attempting on prototype boards. Please advise if these instructions help. It is difficult to retest these instructions because once the field is established it is slow to leave. Perhaps it lingers in us because we are water/carbon creatures as well.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 06, 2008, 04:12:55 PM
The following picture shows prototype board SEC15-3 driver powering a water jar capacitor. There is no carbon rod in this water. The two 18w fluro tubes are not connected by wires. Enjoy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 06, 2008, 04:24:34 PM
Hi Gang,

Basic hydrogen generator proof of concept replication. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmeUQE-nUsI


Some basics.

8 oz tap water. (better if distilled but didn't have any on hand).

1/4 tsp kosher salt  (more might be better, haven't tried)

2- 1/8 carbon rods

4- 1n4148 diodes

2" AL tape around glass.

Center of diodes to earth ground.

SEC totally isolated from ground, floating with batteries.

Works.

There a a huge number of variables that can be investigated to improve this simple test, most important would be multiple cells on the output........Go for it.

One other question.....Anyone thought of putting about 6, F40 CW lamps, excited by a 3-5 watt SEC, between  two 50 W,  12V solar panels?  Feeding 24VDC back to SEC?  Just thinking out loud! 

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 06, 2008, 04:25:54 PM
@DrStiffler    Let me join the chorus and thank you for the rapid open release of your findings. You are paving they way for many to follow.

Some of you without SEC15-3?s are struggling to replicate SEC effect.

1) Copy the prototype board layout in the previous image I posted in reply#2205  one_wire_in_water7.jpg. This approximates the layout on SEC15-3.

2) Do the party trick in reply# 2200 at least overnight. I believe the generated SEC field takes time to grow.

3) Place fluro next to water filled jar. Connect SEC driver output (leave off AV plug) to fluro. By handling the fluro you should be able to get it to light.

4) As the field increases it gets easier ? start with small fluro?s and work you way up. When mobile and telephone communications are effected ? @DrStiffler, @Loki?  Suggestions?

The following photo?s are to encourage those attempting on prototype boards. Please advise if these instructions help. It is difficult to retest these instructions because once the field is established it is slow to leave. Perhaps it lingers in us because we are water/carbon creatures as well.


Nice post Lattice!!!!!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 06, 2008, 04:30:40 PM
ABBARUE I remember the Doc using a Fraday cage   not positive of the results   you dont want the FCC knocking on the door  Chet PS Ben Sweet! you don't mess around
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 06, 2008, 05:26:32 PM
All,
I have seen very similar field building as described by lattice and then also the field resilience such as picking up a neon bulb and it illuminating. No connections to the circuits at all. Also sensations of light electrical shock on metalics around my bench and etc. There is a ton of experimentation that needs done so it is even more important that many people get exciters running even if just breadboard, so what. I do a ton of my testing on the breadboards. I'll be moving into the HHO production work this week for sure. I need to check out Ben's video but can't right now. Welcome to it folks. Great things are in the works. Farady cages do become necessary at some point.
 
More to follow,
Best regards,
Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: waterhouse24 on August 06, 2008, 05:48:31 PM
BTW if you do want a SEC then emailing Stiffler may not be the way to go, by all means email him ASAP but leave a message on here also since he is bouncing email back with or without being read suddenly.
Probably to protect against too much email and he is likely super busy but IF he doesn't read it then...

Of course with this new development he may be working on a larger number than was planned anyway, and I could be wrong but I don't think he made this public domain while stopping the public from getting SEC's so there should be a 3rd gen.

I would like to request a SEC. I am happy to wait for Gen 3 and will be following this thread until we start moving forward with Gen 3

thanks

Lee
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 06, 2008, 06:53:12 PM
@All

One video before the burning bush :-) and I don't mean a person............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAVRCUDVyuY
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 06, 2008, 08:30:27 PM
DR Stiffler   im one big goose bump after that vid' not even optimum conditions'?  'BURN THE BUSH' This is GREAT stuff  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 06, 2008, 09:02:12 PM
DR Stiffler   im one big goose bump after that vid' not even optimum conditions'?  'BURN THE BUSH' This is GREAT stuff  Chet
@ramset

Chet, thanks and the burning bush is coming, but I am so 'Pissed Off' with humanity and self proclaimed ""Experts"" and you know who you are that spew "SHIT" as an expert, but yet are over a year  in the rears of reality. God help you.

Now Chet the video is already made, the circuits work and water can be burned, I will put it up on YouTube in the next 24 hours, BUT that "AH" that played me, seeming to be a professional, may you rot in hell.
Title: 2 carbon rods and even 3VDC will produce Hyrdogen
Post by: professor on August 06, 2008, 10:00:59 PM
*Deleted*
By Dr. Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 06, 2008, 10:15:03 PM
Prof   The characteristics of this electrolysis are unique  bringing out much more hydrogen than oxygen  ChetPS MUCH more user friendly
Title: Re: 2 carbon rods and even 3VDC will produce Hyrdogen
Post by: k4zep on August 06, 2008, 10:48:02 PM
Being a Licensed Radio Amateur myself (from the 807 Days)
you will know that rectifying any form of RF will provide you with DC.
A small amount of DC will cause electrolysis  particular in a conductive solution.
I have a great respect for Dr. Stifflers Circuit if used as intended, and therefore believe that it should not be mistakenly used to do something that can be done with straight DC ,unless the results are staggeringly different.
I am working on Stanly Meyers invention and believe that in principle  there may be a correlation ,furthering  new ideas.
I am not trying to be Critical of your experiment but it could lead others to be sidetracked.
This is just my Opinion and it is an opinion only.
prof.


Hi Professor,

You remember 807's?  Shack warmers!  Yes, I remember them well.....Go to YouTube and watch the last video I just put up.  The voltage drop across those 4 diodes MAX would be about 2.7/2.8 VDC in a low current rectifier mode.  Observer and marvel.......Glad to have a good Ham with an opinion aboard.  Dr. Stiffler's devices are real and explore the far reaches of wideband pulse RF.  Stanley Meyers theories are a great place also to mess around with pulse hydrogen generation!

See:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NULf5fugi5M

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on August 06, 2008, 10:53:48 PM
professor - RF comes from ELECTROMAGNETIC waves. Stiffler uses the near field (via the high voltage exited electrostatic field). Similar concept but RF requires MORE POWER than a high tension ESF. If Stiffler was using RF it would be highly inefficient and pointless. This is NOT the case!!!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 06, 2008, 10:54:11 PM
The more I think about this the more I believe it could be used as a Joe Cell, so if anyone with a SEC believes in Joe Cells then if you can get this water cap effect working then it might be very well worth a go. (IMO this field and Orgone are both just excited vacuum/aether/lattice and they may be close enough for this to work as a JC)

Lattice333, I'm interested in having you coach me through making a SEC run, I bought the parts a few days ago (mostly, cheated a tad on the caps) minus the critical variable inductor, not sure how/where to buy this and the tuning thingy. (core, coil, ferrite)
I am reasonably sure that's the issue with my attempt, the variable inductor.


I told someone I was chatting with about Stifflers demo with the fluros and they asked me a question which reminded me that maybe my flux pulling idea as explaining the Fluro demo makes more sense to me not only because I know of 30? say other devices/experiments that do the same thing reasonably clearly but because Stiffler did one of those with his SEC quite a while ago now.

He took an air core pickup coil and found the inductive field from the ferrite was uniformly detected by the coil and distance had no effect until at about a meter say it just went to zero like 'closing a door'.
The fact that the orientation and position of the pickup coil relative to the ferrite is critical means it's not just a scalar spacial energy bubble being tapped but the field from the ferrite, at least in my mind.

note: scalar in that sentence has it's original meaning and is not used to reference Bearden's theories.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stephenafreter on August 06, 2008, 11:00:04 PM
Hi,
 First of all great congratulations Dr Stiffler, Lattice333 and others for this fantastic discoveries.

 Pictures with all this fluo lighting are full of hope !!

 Of course I want to jump in the experimentation, but am not expert. The circuit is surprisingly simple, the SEC15, and it has only two problems for me. On Lattice333 pictures I can see the coil and the kind of copper pipe, that I suppose is used as heat sink for the transistor ... but I'm not sure :(

 Could anyidy give the specs of the small coil that is vertical with a white plastic tube as air core?

 Aether22 gav a list of the parts and numbers from JameCo, but te coil and copper pipe are not referenced.

 Again I'm very surprised, and after 5 years following the free-energy quest, I can say 'Waow that's it, Dr Stiffler found it, the simplest way to harness the space energy' ... first we have light !!! and ten I hope we can run an electric heater, that will heat houses and also be able to cook the daily food for zero pesos :)

 For me electrolysis is not the best way, also it is a fire hazard ... all electric should be better :) :) quiet and non explosive !

 Again a thousand of thanks and congratulations Dr Stiffler !!! You are writting the future !

MDG
http://radiant.100free.com
Title: Re: 2 carbon rods and even 3VDC will produce Hyrdogen
Post by: DrStiffler on August 06, 2008, 11:08:04 PM
*Deleted*
By Dr.Stiffler
Title: Re: 2 carbon rods and even 3VDC will produce Hyrdogen
Post by: k4zep on August 06, 2008, 11:51:10 PM
Hi Professor,

You remember 807's?  Shack warmers!  Yes, I remember them well.....Go to YouTube and watch the last video I just put up.  The voltage drop across those 4 diodes MAX would be about 2.7/2.8 VDC in a low current rectifier mode.  Observer and marvel.......Glad to have a good Ham with an opinion aboard.  Dr. Stiffler's devices are real and explore the far reaches of wideband pulse RF.  Stanley Meyers theories are a great place also to mess around with pulse hydrogen generation!

See:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NULf5fugi5M

Ben K4ZEP

Hi Gang,

After I uploaded the above video, I realized I did not show regular electrolysis and the voltages and current that would develop with the 2 carbon rods in a normal setup.  Here is an extension of the above going from 2 to 10 VDC.....LOTS of GAS and LOTS of current.............

See:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7HKbPnVpBs

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 07, 2008, 01:06:20 AM
Thanks Doc!  ;)
You rule!

Here are the electrodes I'm going to try first and the batteries I'm putting on charge right now.

Results soon.  ;)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 07, 2008, 01:12:29 AM
Hi,
 First of all great congratulations Dr Stiffler, Lattice333 and others for this fantastic discoveries.

 Pictures with all this fluo lighting are full of hope !!

 Of course I want to jump in the experimentation, but am not expert. The circuit is surprisingly simple, the SEC15, and it has only two problems for me. On Lattice333 pictures I can see the coil and the kind of copper pipe, that I suppose is used as heat sink for the transistor ... but I'm not sure :(

 Could anyidy give the specs of the small coil that is vertical with a white plastic tube as air core?

 Aether22 gav a list of the parts and numbers from JameCo, but te coil and copper pipe are not referenced.

 Again I'm very surprised, and after 5 years following the free-energy quest, I can say 'Waow that's it, Dr Stiffler found it, the simplest way to harness the space energy' ... first we have light !!! and ten I hope we can run an electric heater, that will heat houses and also be able to cook the daily food for zero pesos :)

 For me electrolysis is not the best way, also it is a fire hazard ... all electric should be better :) :) quiet and non explosive !

 Again a thousand of thanks and congratulations Dr Stiffler !!! You are writting the future !

MDG
http://radiant.100free.com


2 - 20 uH variable inductor wound with 22ga or 24ga copper wire, I think I used 24ga but I'll have to mic it, the heat sink is 1/4inch copper pipe bent with pliers to be used over the MPSA06 transistor. Look back through these pages carefully, IT IS ALL HERE.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 01:26:30 AM
Back when Stiffler first found the effect (pretty sure it was quite new at the time) he sent me one of the cores he could get the effect with, and at the time anyway it wasn't every ferrite core would work as he reported on vortex-l.

I tried with that core at the time but my frequency gen. was not able to hit a fine enough frequency.

I tried that same radio ferrite loop stick and made it variable by sliding the core but got nothing, so my question is where do you get the ferrite, plastic parts and how many turns of wire is it? (I can try both wire gauges if need be)

Also if you can show a decent closeup birds eye view of the breadboard circuit I'll attempt to replicate placement so I don't get a screwey capacitance.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on August 07, 2008, 02:56:44 AM
@Doc et al,

I don't know if the bulb just lit in my head now was it flickering for awhile, but it sort of dawned on me to raise some concerns regarding any biological effects that SEC could be producing.

Is there a way to determine the field strength, spectrum of frequencies and any possible biological effects that using the SEC might have? After seeing all those fluorescent lamps light up at distance without wires I thought to my self "wow, wait a second..."

I know that this might be not a concern right now for most, but many of us are playing with it and are sitting right next to the device...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 03:23:29 AM
As an 'et al', I'd view that the device whatever the biological effects could be made not only safe but biologically beneficial.
However that would require some attention and effort so there is likely a lowish level risk at the moment, made greater by doing random experiments admittedly.
Title: Re: 2 carbon rods and even 3VDC will produce Hyrdogen
Post by: professor on August 07, 2008, 03:40:34 AM
*Deleted*
By Dr. Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 07, 2008, 04:04:34 AM
delete  see yah PROF Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on August 07, 2008, 04:23:57 AM
As an 'et al', I'd view that the device whatever the biological effects could be made not only safe but biologically beneficial.
However that would require some attention and effort so there is likely a lowish level risk at the moment, made greater by doing random experiments admittedly.

That is really going on a blind faith that the risks are low without real substantial data. We really need to know for sure instead of hoping for the best... :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 05:07:46 AM
That is really going on a blind faith that the risks are low without real substantial data. We really need to know for sure instead of hoping for the best... :)


Well it's really an issue of taking a risk that you choose to take, the danger is of course unknown in a device which is so new (and strange), the danger of conventional technology is just becoming apparent so really there is no easy way to vet it's safety at this stage, and simply no way to ever do so if you do experiments that can change things.

But from my research I can assure you that this kind of thing can be harmonized but that will take some effort to put into place.

Still I doubt you recognize the risk in so many things, for instance do you know what causes more deaths than all forms of accidents combined?
Death from catching an infection in hospital.

Title: Re: 2 carbon rods and even 3VDC will produce Hyrdogen
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 05:30:59 AM
Dear Dr. Stiffler
I am sorry you have taken offense to my opinion I am 66Years of age I have started Ham Radio in the 50's in another country and relicensed here in Canada. I worked in Electronics all my life troubleshooting and having worked for CGE  Sylvania and many others  I am maybe not as smart as you appear to be, but I am no Dummy.
I noticed that you had similar emotional outbursts with other members,its a shame that Mankind can not understand each other.
I praised you and your Circuit for what it is .What more do you want.Total obedience? If we can not share our thoughts and experiences what is the sense being here? God may smile upon you.
Others have taken my comment as it was meant. I was not badmouthing anyone and I am disturbed about the Fact that I have to go on a defensive.Where is your professionalism?I also live in the Pacific Northwest.
K4zep nice you took no offence as you surely understood what I had meant having worked with RF yourself.
I will look at your other Video that I promise.
There is no need to delete as I will be the wiser one I will stay in another section of this Forum Dr. Stiffler you can have it all
By the way Dr Stiffler what is your Call Sign?
 Professor
 
 

Professor, 2 things.

First is that there are plenty of people who will pick things to death, many seem quite f'd up and they are only here to tear down, others are merely unreasonably skeptical, and some actually give every appearance of being paid for their disinfo.

And so comments such as yours especially when they don't seem to be considering all the evidence are looked on as 'just another a**hole'.
Being nice and saying you are into this or that does not remove that suspicion or change how sick people are of unending re-hashing of stuff that was long ago disproven.

Secondly no one is perfect, the history of discoveries of this type are riddled with failures of the inventor (in almost every imaginable way), this is both because it takes someone who is quite independent and unconventional to come up with these discoveries and stick their neck out over it, and the fact that too much is expected of the discoverer of such a technology (due to government, companies and general public not supporting it the inventor must be a jack (or master) of all trades), and few people can do it all, even when they can (and Stiffler is close to that, who else has built and sold working prototypes!) the stress of doing it all and fighting off attacks from 'friendly' to 'deranged' skeptics alike can be a tad much, so give the Doc a break.

There is at least one thing that should not be doubted by any sane and informed person about Stifflers tech. (and this area in general)
First it is not conventional, and secondly has huge positive potential. (only until now it has not been clear how to enhance a SEC sufficiently)

You are right though, we humans do need to get along better but you can't poke a bear in the face with a stick and tell it to 'chill' either. (and maybe you didn't mean to but that's what you did)


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 07, 2008, 08:19:11 AM
I have one problem with building this device:
From a common electronics point of view what we have here is a simple inverter circuit.
Winding 9 turns around an AM antenna that has say 99 turns will step up the voltage 11x.
I have played with many step up transformers, and got them to light up fluor. lamps.
I did that kind of stuff back in the 1970's, using an ignition coil and a 6 volt transformer.
I used to dazzle my friends by being able to hold the tube in my hand and have it light up.
That was right after the first star wars came out at the movies. 

Anyway my problem is, how can I know that I have the Dr. Stiffler effect and not the simple step up
transformer effect I've been playing with for over 30 years?
The Dr. stated that the core material is very important, and I have no way of knowing if I have the right core.
I can be sure of every other aspect of this circuit but this one all important point.
There must be something I can check for to know for sure I have the circuit working HIS way.

The one I have built right now shows an almost perfect sine wave on the oscilloscope.
And my frequency counter is measureing about  5.8 MHz.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 08:26:10 AM
One thing I do want to say though is how true the follow statement from 'Prof' is:

     "Its a shame that Mankind can not understand each other."

It is something easy to see on the internet, besides a true mixed audiance you get anonymous people who just like to upset people because they can.
They are a huge problem but then the 'immune system' created by supporters who wish to protect the person or entity under attack often are proactive and energetic in their defense which creates some compartively friendly fire. (and then defense back the other way)
Then you have different skills, knowledge/training, personality and different tools people use and you end up with a bit of a mess if people aren't willing to go a bit easy which is not always easy when you are passionate about things.

Still normally harmony wins out but it does take effort sometimes to see other peoples point of view if it's not something you are used to doing.

I think every attempt should be made not to flame any possible innocent and give the benifit of the doubt so long as it exists, and I know not everyone will even agree with that but generally disharmony and rumors and sides and the like don't help and you can get 2 good people who due to poor communication are working not in co-operation but against each other, this is not good since if there is one thing that keeps this technology from getting a foothold it is lack of unity, unity is the power that companies gain by handing people money but this field can't do that and so must find unity by better communication and working together since none is paid. (and most making money from it have their motives peverted by the money)

Luckily these differences are the answer because it is indeed almost impossible to be good at many totally different disciplins and even if that were not so there is still too much to do.
But look at the benefit brought about be cooperation? Look what a party trick turned into? Look what my radiant electron observation became (Seemingly Stifflers greatest OU results yet in the optical coherance experiments) and the carbon has been proven useful in the SEC also.


Incidentally I have found the MBTI to be both fascinatingly accurate for myself and many others, we really are built differently, you may gain insight into someone if you can find their type.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 09:37:00 AM
I have one problem with building this device:
From a common electronics point of view what we have here is a simple inverter circuit.
Winding 9 turns around an AM antenna that has say 99 turns will step up the voltage 11x.
I have played with many step up transformers, and got them to light up fluor. lamps.
I did that kind of stuff back in the 1970's, using an ignition coil and a 6 volt transformer.
I used to dazzle my friends by being able to hold the tube in my hand and have it light up.
That was right after the first star wars came out at the movies. 

Anyway my problem is, how can I know that I have the Dr. Stiffler effect and not the simple step up
transformer effect I've been playing with for over 30 years?
The Dr. stated that the core material is very important, and I have no way of knowing if I have the right core.
I can be sure of every other aspect of this circuit but this one all important point.
There must be something I can check for to know for sure I have the circuit working HIS way.

The one I have built right now shows an almost perfect sine wave on the oscilloscope.
And my frequency counter is measureing about  5.8 MHz.


Good question perhaps.
One answer and this is based somewhat more on what he reported over a year and a half ago, I have not followed it much from then till recently because I was not sure if the current SEC was the same or not as what was happening then. (he didn't mention the same effects and it seemed easier to get and he didn't mention anything so...)

One answer would be to see if there is (and I hope this is not anything he told me in confidence) a return pulse, it's a second energy spike after the input which is hard to account for.

Another is to have a sensor coil and have it parallel to the main inductor (which is vertical in the current SEC obviously) and see if it has the uniform induced voltage until the drop-off which occurs at about a meter.

Another would be to make a simple AV Plug and see if it lights or powers a standard AV plug compatible load, this is however dependant of Stiffler being right that a normal electrical signal input into an AV plug will produce next to zero output, Stiffler claims you need a multi freq waveform to get a plug to work. (the implication that anything creating energy in the plug is disrupting the ______ )

The new experiments with the water thingimyjig would be a nice option and if you can get the fluros to light and if you can get the field to grow and if you can find the input current to decrease when adding further fluros then functional SEC or not you have something which is anomlious.

However you said your SEC lights up brighter when you turn an isolation transformer on and I think you said it was powered by a battery? (I could be wrong) If so then that's pretty anomlious since battery operated circuits don't jump in power obviously most of the time based in distant electrical devices.

Look for cooling of the transistor if you can tune for it.

Also I sent you a suggestion privately you could try that. (pretty predictible as it's the same suggestion I've been making publically)

I would note that it is maybe possible that you can with less effiency create a current which is compatible with that of SEC output, If you bought your SEC from Stiffler then chances are it works, I may however wish to consult this list myself once I get one built. (which is looking more likely)

Of course Stiffler may have a far better answer! (though I think he's decently busy atm)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 07, 2008, 09:53:31 AM
Just for reference here is Naudin's replication of what we have here:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm

Only he used a 555 timer and didn't try splitting water with it, at least I don't think he did.
Also he is using the brute force of the ignition coil, whereas this circuit gains the energy from elsewhere.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 10:14:40 AM
Yes, and he had a wire which can act a bit like a ground. (capacitive grounding antenna, ok maybe not)

Which reminds me, if grounding shows a loss of energy then IMO that shows it was working because generally grounds should not lower effiency.

Perhaps those who have been in this thread longer will have other ideas regarding establishment of conventional .vs unconventional electrical operation, they must have been round this mulberry bush before.


John Berry (I am out of the habbit of signing posts but I am not 'trying' to be anon. , the subject has come up a few times of late which reminded me, I'll try and shut up now)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: pomodoro on August 07, 2008, 10:44:35 AM
Guys, since Dr Stiffler has found that one of the secrets of making the AV plug work is to use a 'dirty' oscillator full of sidebands, I wonder if a simple run of the mill noise generator utilizing a zener diode and some hefty power amplification of the noise would provide us with a high power device. The advantage  working with RF frequencies would not be needed.  Parts are cheaper, more powerful and easier to find.  Remember that Frolov used only 10khz for his experiments. I plan to test this soon but am working on a version of the SEC exciter with  an  RF transistor at the moment.




Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 07, 2008, 11:28:52 AM
Gentlemen,
The spectrum of the exciter as viewed on a spectrum analyzer is telltale. Dr Stiffler stated over and over that trying to hang your tried and true test equipment on this circuit will prove to be your downfall. Even DMM's read incorrectly, and they do! Our conventional equipment is not designed to operate very well with 400MHz plus of slamming harmonics let alone possibly cohered energy from the lattice. IS THAT TOUGH TO ACCEPT? HELL YES IT IS! DO YOU NEED TO ACCEPT IT? YES YOU DO! Assuming you want to reproduce Dr. Stiffler's work. You cannot just toss in impedances and earth grounding where you are conventionally used to doing that and just write it off because YOU KNOW how to do that! I don't give a shit what degree's you hold, how long you have been a radio head or otherwise. I've been in the game for a long time myself and I am a professional test developer. So what! I'm a newbee to SEC! I suggest AGAIN, that you gentlemen study this HUGE thread in DETAIL. The answers to these questions are here and you can find them but I'm going on to the making of bubbles that burn so please START STUDYING AGAIN! COLLEGE GENERATES A BUNCH OF STUBBORN HARD HEADED ARROGANT PEOPLE. How will you ever learn a new way? Enough from LOKI! Look at the picture below. SEC lighting up the EM SPECTRUM!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 11:57:34 AM
Well said.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 07, 2008, 12:14:22 PM
This is HOW you KNOW! Everything else is YOU ENGINEERING your own devices and saying they are Dr. Stiffler's. Have a little humility for God's sake and try to learn.

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 07, 2008, 12:30:35 PM
That is really going on a blind faith that the risks are low without real substantial data. We really need to know for sure instead of hoping for the best... :)


Indeed......you shall live long and prosper......LOL for real brother! I keep the kids away and I accept the possible risks. If some are not so inclined I suggest staying back. I TRULY DO NOT KNOW and I have been burned and my eyes messed with over the last 8 months or so that I have been working with SEC. You are correct as far as I can tell Amigo!  ;) The WARNINGS are posted and are in Dr. Stifflers documentation. It is research so  :-\ You never can tell! Protective eyewear is a must and get used to being thermal burned and RF burned. ;D After that we are likely the lab rats.........I accept it!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 07, 2008, 12:45:41 PM
@All,
As an example of what I'm talking about, arrogance, hard headed, conventionally trained, I'm just as guilty in many respects, those of you that have been following this for the duration know I'm supposed to be getting some heat measurements RIGHT? I still can't quite get the SENSORS and DAQ measurements quiet enough to call the data anything but noise and I do it for a living. I am going to order friggin thermometers and put up with being beat and screamed at for 10 to 12 hours to get the calorimetry data too. This will take the rest of my life probably! So........there........ :P

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 07, 2008, 01:37:20 PM
Gentlemen,
The spectrum of the exciter as viewed on a spectrum analyzer is telltale. Dr Stiffler stated over and over that trying to hang your tried and true test equipment on this circuit will prove to be your downfall. Even DMM's read incorrectly, and they do! Our conventional equipment is not designed to operate very well with 400MHz plus of slamming harmonics let alone possibly cohered energy from the lattice. IS THAT TOUGH TO ACCEPT? HELL YES IT IS! DO YOU NEED TO ACCEPT IT? YES YOU DO! Assuming you want to reproduce Dr. Stiffler's work. You cannot just toss in impedances and earth grounding where you are conventionally used to doing that and just write it off because YOU KNOW how to do that! I don't give a shit what degree's you hold, how long you have been a radio head or otherwise. I've been in the game for a long time myself and I am a professional test developer. So what! I'm a newbee to SEC! I suggest AGAIN, that you gentlemen study this HUGE thread in DETAIL. The answers to these questions are here and you can find them but I'm going on to the making of bubbles that burn so please START STUDYING AGAIN! COLLEGE GENERATES A BUNCH OF STUBBORN HARD HEADED ARROGANT PEOPLE. How will you ever learn a new way? Enough from LOKI! Look at the picture below. SEC lighting up the EM SPECTRUM!

Best regards,

Jim

Hi Jim,

Look at that 500MHz ++ spectrum of the SEC.  The first time I saw that (Thanks Dr. Stiffler) I said WOW......Thanks for posting that shot and the other @ 5 MHz/div. (for you old hams like  myself I have the horrible urge to say Megacycles)
Does my heart good.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 07, 2008, 01:46:56 PM
@All,
As an example of what I'm talking about, arrogance, hard headed, conventionally trained, I'm just as guilty in many respects, those of you that have been following this for the duration know I'm supposed to be getting some heat measurements RIGHT? I still can't quite get the SENSORS and DAQ measurements quiet enough to call the data anything but noise and I do it for a living. I am going to order friggin thermometers and put up with being beat and screamed at for 10 to 12 hours to get the calorimetry data too. This will take the rest of my life probably! So........there........ :P

Best regards,

Jim

Morning Jim,

The environment the SEC develops just drives instrumentation crazy doesn't it.  I was in Biomedical R&D instrumentation in the mid 80's for several years and I understand where you are coming from.  Heck just trying to get a digital meter to settle down to measure current and voltage is a pain with a hot SEC......Sometimes the old ways are the best ways............You can do it..........blow off steam, helps.....

Now I'm going to play with Kirchoffs laws and loop currents in a multiple carbon rod hydrolyzer, something I saw is driving me nuts and I have to prove what I see is real, for an old Tec, this is what's fun. Always curious I am.

Ben

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Ricardoch on August 07, 2008, 02:36:10 PM
Hello all and most compliments to Dr. Stiffer.

I'm a little overhelmed trying to follow all the thead on my scarce spare time.

I'd like to request Some SEC (maybe 4) to replicate and learn, although I'm overseas and not too sure if this is an unconvenient.

Best for all from Spain.

Ric

@ Dr. Stiffer.
Some post ago I believe you complained having some trouble with your web site.
I'm not sure of your needs and I'm not an expert, but I have an mainly unusued server at Godaddy.com and if it's useful for you you can use it, I just use it for mail.
The only problem is that you must manage it yourself I have not idea on how to and don't want to mess anything.

Please do not hesitate to contact if required at
rcarrilero at yahoo.es

Best wishes and please excuse my English if any unconvenience
Ric
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 02:56:29 PM
This is HOW you KNOW! Everything else is YOU ENGINEERING your own devices and saying they are Dr. Stiffler's. Have a little humility for God's sake and try to learn.

Jim

I don't think that is addressed to me but it is unclear.

It is worth noting however that Stiffler didn't invent the AV plug (it runs on devices other than a SEC), and also that Stiffler claims that plain AC won't work to run a plug.

This strongly suggests (but does not demand) that plugs are all run from the same excitation of _____  and that a SEC might be both powerful and efficient in comparison to other methods.
That is what I think/guess Stiffler believes since he is the one that states that plugs seemingly need this kind of excitation.

In other words my guess is that some SEC effects MAY be gained with a non SEC device, such a device may not be easy to make either, or be as effective and it would likely use more energy. (And I was only considering it as an alternative until I could get a SEC)

So that's my guess about what Stiffler seems to believe and at any rate it is my thinking on the subject, but I am far from convinced that engineering a powerful alternative would be easy nor that all the effects would transfer.

If you disagree with the reasoning that is fine.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 07, 2008, 03:01:06 PM
something I saw is driving me nuts and I have to prove what I see is real,

Sounds interesting! Sounds typical of this kind of thing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: pomodoro on August 07, 2008, 03:23:28 PM
Guys instead of fighting over how and if this works, how about we concentrate on what we do know. We know the AV plug allows the RF to turn into a useful power source. Why has no one built a decent one that can power a 10W or more lightbulb. What is stopping you?  Seems like most are waiting for the Doc to dish out more and more. Get a bigger transistor, or a tube and do some more tests.  I want to know 2 things, does the power come from the oscillator - the most probable source, or does it get sucked in with little or no work - unlikely but who knows.    Lets get our elbows dirty again until this thing is proven to be OU (after all this forum is about OU) or just an interesting circuit.
 ???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on August 07, 2008, 03:28:09 PM
I have a request for anyone who can wrangle dry ice regarding the wireless fluro lighting to run the demo again but in a dry ice cloud. This is because any ionic winds or strings MAY clear things up a bit, pun intended. Not only do I not have access to dry ice but all my time is tied up in building and testing an alternative to the SEC that functions in an identical way but aids in an explanation  (I wont bother you with the details unless I get results that are interesting and similar to the Dr's results). But the dry ice thing is just a thought, I'm NOT demanding anything  :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 07, 2008, 03:28:12 PM
@aether22

I don't think that is addressed to me but it is unclear.

It is worth noting however that Stiffler didn't invent the AV plug (it runs on devices other than a SEC), and also that Stiffler claims that plain AC won't work to run a plug.

This strongly suggests (but does not demand) that plugs are all run from the same excitation of _____  and that a SEC might be both powerful and efficient in comparison to other methods.
That is what I think/guess Stiffler believes since he is the one that states that plugs seemingly need this kind of excitation.

In other words my guess is that some SEC effects MAY be gained with a non SEC device, such a device may not be easy to make either, or be as effective and it would likely use more energy. (And I was only considering it as an alternative until I could get a SEC)

So that's my guess about what Stiffler seems to believe and at any rate it is my thinking on the subject, but I am far from convinced that engineering a powerful alternative would be easy nor that all the effects would transfer.

If you disagree with the reasoning that is fine.

Sounds interesting! Sounds typical of this kind of thing.

I'm Cool on all of the points above!  8) I know that AV plugs are not Dr. Stifflers invention. But I am here investigating Dr. Stifflers work and SEC specifically is his invention, and that is why I am adamant about it. I agree that there are many things we do not understand and need to investigate. The idea here is try and understand and replicate SEC. It is perfectly OK to start other threads also...right? That was my point! NO attack on anybody, no offense intended to anyone or taken by me. I have more than I can handle on my plate right now.  ;D Lets get on with changing the world. Dr Stiffler is I'll bet!  8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on August 07, 2008, 03:30:36 PM
double post, sorry
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IsaSIO on August 07, 2008, 05:03:31 PM
@Hi Fellows

I'm brand spanken new here thanks to a good friend that turned me on to some strange videos from I believe Dr Stiffler. I been working with big HHO cells for a year now and was blown away by not needen power to the electrodes. I have me a big battery farm and pump big amps in my cells. So from a new person does this really work I'm asking if you can make HHO with no batteries??
Title: Re: 2 carbon rods and even 3VDC will produce Hyrdogen
Post by: DrStiffler on August 07, 2008, 05:12:42 PM
Dear Dr. Stiffler
I am sorry you have taken offense to my opinion I am 66Years of age I have started Ham Radio in the 50's in another country and relicensed here in Canada. I worked in Electronics all my life troubleshooting and having worked for CGE  Sylvania and many others  I am maybe not as smart as you appear to be, but I am no Dummy.
I noticed that you had similar emotional outbursts with other members,its a shame that Mankind can not understand each other.
I praised you and your Circuit for what it is .What more do you want.Total obedience? If we can not share our thoughts and experiences what is the sense being here? God may smile upon you.
Others have taken my comment as it was meant. I was not badmouthing anyone and I am disturbed about the Fact that I have to go on a defensive.Where is your professionalism?I also live in the Pacific Northwest.
K4zep nice you took no offence as you surely understood what I had meant having worked with RF yourself.
I will look at your other Video that I promise.
There is no need to delete as I will be the wiser one I will stay in another section of this Forum Dr. Stiffler you can have it all
By the way Dr Stiffler what is your Call Sign?
 Professor
 
 

@professor

Wow! I am just awe struck here, gee I guess we all better get our life history out an see if we really can stand beside you.

Well Sir! I'm 66 also, but thank god can still read and see the posting of my call sign. I don't think will carry the who we worked for to far, I don't want to embarrass you, anyway thats probabliy why you showed up, right???
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 07, 2008, 05:15:47 PM
@Hi Fellows

I'm brand spanken new here thanks to a good friend that turned me on to some strange videos from I believe Dr Stiffler. I been working with big HHO cells for a year now and was blown away by not needen power to the electrodes. I have me a big battery farm and pump big amps in my cells. So from a new person does this really work I'm asking if you can make HHO with no batteries??

@IsaSIO
Absolutely!  But don't be fooled, there is voltage on the electrode, a significant voltage and current.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 07, 2008, 07:00:09 PM
@ALL

Here is what you all want to see and it is indeed REAL. You have the tools now jump down and start running with them. Be creative and work fast, very fast.

If you want me back on this thread I would expect that you all will police it for me. I'm sick of the crap and I have tried so if you ever want anymore, help me on this, Ok?

Can Water Be Burned #3
* being processed by YouTube now;  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aanRgpfv144
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 07, 2008, 07:33:49 PM
Dr. Stiffler:

Excellent work!!!!!  This is fantastic!  I believe this to be a historic moment and I am glad I could be here to see this.  Please count me in when your new boards are available.  Thank you for sharing this with us.  I hope you stay here and just ignore the idiots.  They all know who they are, and so do we.

Thanks again,

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stephenafreter on August 07, 2008, 07:52:05 PM
 Fantastic work Dr Stiffler !

 I book 2 SEC G3, but you'll have to send them to France if you don't mind :)

 I really find that you are showing the easiest access to Space Energy so far.

 I have read thousands of documents on ZPE in the last 5 years, and your circuit is so far the smallest and simplest one I ever saw, and can deliver much power compare to the input, like in your previous experiments with tens of LED, circuits on your website. (mine is at http://radiant.100free.com and is a collection of hundreds pages on ZPE)

 The latest discovery of 'coupling' a SEC with water, for fluorescent lights and now electrolysis is very impressive ... and the big plus that has you technology, compare to others, is that you make all the details accessible, when most of all other inventors always keep hidding some ...

 Mr Newman, Mr Bedini and many others have very generously given their technologies to public, but they are more difficult to reproduce or scale up, and really yours looks much more affordable and promising.

 As you MUST accept, all the black operators, specialists in this domain, came immediatly on your back, on this thread, to try to break your spirit and volonty. That's absolutly NORMAL, because you are breaching their dam of greed, and it's their job to trouble you. But be strong and know that it is usual, they are just trying to push you to give up.

 There is also the dumb guys that don't know nothing about ZPE, so they just can't grasp what's happening, it's kind of a shock for them, they aren't prepared to understand and accept sch a thing ...

 I suggest that if you don't feel the heart to make cleanning on this thread by yourself, you delegate the job to a friend of yours that could clear the place regularly ... and then you would be light hearted to concentrate on the developments of your discovery.

 Also another solution could be to open a yahoogroup, where you'll be able to select the entry of members, and where you could have better control of the passing visitors ... there you have place to stock files also, and experimenters can post their photos or file ....think about it, it's quite easy to open.

 Whatever you do Dr Stiffler, please please please, never give hope to make you discoveries public in the intention to help this world that they oppress.
 We need such a technology as yours and you are the most knowledgeable to develop it now. So to speak we (the oppressed) need you !!!

 I wish I could help you more than with simple words. Anyway thanks a lot already for your fantastic devotion.

 We are many 'good' guys and girls to come here and collect information, so please, come here for us, and forget about this trouble makers and ignorant skeptics.

 God bless you and your familly,
 MDG
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: professor on August 07, 2008, 08:53:59 PM
*Deleted*
By Dr. Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 07, 2008, 09:03:02 PM
@ALL

Here is what you all want to see and it is indeed REAL. You have the tools now jump down and start running with them. Be creative and work fast, very fast.

If you want me back on this thread I would expect that you all will police it for me. I'm sick of the crap and I have tried so if you ever want anymore, help me on this, Ok?

Can Water Be Burned #3
* being processed by YouTube now;  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aanRgpfv144

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

Absolutely most excellent......Inverted funnel to catch the hydrogen, oxy electrode sitting off to the side!  Ingenous as heck!!!!  Your hydrogen burner is really excellent and most simple!!!!  VERY GOOD!  You are a man of your word and in this world, that is very important!!!!!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on August 07, 2008, 09:29:43 PM
This likewise thinking is exactly what go me into trouble.
I am glad that I am not alone in my thinking and it is a shame that at this time I have nothing to offer, or the shoe would be on the other foot. I  have no military Background and I am not a Yes Sir No Sir Man.
I do have the intelligence though to ask Questions of things that I do not understand.
I have a teaching certificate and one of the first rules is to tell your Student "I don't know,but I will find out for you"'.
But unless you know and reveal the  facts without theorizing, anyone can claim anything on this forum without scientific proof.
I for instance could claim to be a Professor . Sorry this  I am not, but I do have the Experience and prob. saw and repaired  more standard electronic Equipment on a daily basis all of my life than most of you here. I also know that attack is a  subhuman form  of defense,but it seems to work.
Give us the details as if you were to patent the circuit . I agree with the above that you can excite any plasma with an RF Field as most us know.
Now what Kanzius did is really unique but impractical  for splitting water as you require too much power.
To produce Hydrogen only is  the product of the catalyst not the circuit.
My respect goes out to many Inventors that have revealed the scientific principle of their invention.
If Ronald R Stiffler does not intend to patent his circuit and promised to give it to the world then by all means there is no reason in the world why he can not tell us why it works the way he claims it does.
Professor
didn't you have an intricate plan about you NOT posting in here anymore, something about the "wiser one"?

do you have the intelligence to read the ENTIRE thread before asking questions?
do you have the intelligence to replicate the circuit OR if you can't manage that, purchase one and actually DO the experiment, thereby making your own observations instead of just making assumptions on what you think you know before blabbing on about what you did on who? subhuman indeed...

"give us the details as if you were to patent the circuit"
who are you to demand it being given to you in ANY specific way? the doc can give it out in any way he so chooses.
by all means there could be many reasons the doc does what he does, numero uno being thats the way he wants it...

and as far as your teaching certificate, i much prefer the doc's way of lighting a fire (pun intended) of curiosity in his "students" instead of treating us as "buckets" to be filled with the status quo. i don't want you to find out for me, i rather enjoy finding out for myself...
professionalism? do the replication before you start yakking, that might have some semblance of professionalism, your head talking does not.
the doc's call sign is WA7RTQ, pretty obvious, and i'm not even a HAM...


@stiffler
thank you for this intriguing circuit, have been quietly following along and experimenting with a SEC15-3 and always look forward to new posts (except the ones from the talking heads) and new experiments in this thread. please put me down for a G3 and please don't let these asshats get you down. it's what they want.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on August 07, 2008, 09:49:36 PM

I have been following these developments as much as my limited understanding of circuitry will allow.

If everyone were to chime in whenever there is friction between two posters, this would be too much for most to want to sift through...thereby accomplishing exactly what those who poke sticks in the wheels of progress set out to do when the light starts shining through.

So, please refrain from adding to the background noise with non productive venting.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Regards...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 07, 2008, 09:54:39 PM
WILBY nicely put
BEN nice observation Oxy off to the side
Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 08, 2008, 01:19:13 AM
What I do is come up with correlations, and while it's just a curiosity at this moment I may have found one.

Stiffler told me something and said 'private' so I checked with him first and it appears that he's given me the Ok but the reply was defiantly short and non expressive so I hope I'm not going beyond what he meant or wished, anyhow when my SEC attempt failed Stiffler informed me that "base circuit causes bifurcation", he said some other stuff but let's just stick to that. (I will note that he did mention not all transistors work, though I think he has likely mentioned that before?)

Ben mentioned something weird in the Bifurcated electrolysis circuit.

Then there is the optical coherence circuit Stiffler made which again used Bifurcation.
And of course the AV plug.

And JLN's AFEP, Tesla coils, Autoignotion coils and various others, parallel bucking bifilar and caduceus coils?
I 'untangled' Hendershots circuit recently and it seems to fit very well.
Ed Gray's 'Splitting the positive'?

So is there something that happens in such circuits?

Could it be separation of 2 different current types?
Or slamming of different currents into each other which excites the aether/lattice? (of course that does not fit the term)
Or currents flowing 2 directions in the same wire?
Does current loop around in the 2 branches (as in an AV plug)?
Is there induction between the branches? (I'd guess not in all cases)

There could be multiple effects and plenty of reasons both conventional and unconventional for such a circuit topology, and if you don't give it the right conditions it won't work, assuming the correlation is valid which it could easily not be given the lack of data.

This is due to it's simplicity and commonality not going to be a very easy correlation to prove by growing it by further data mining.

But if you are like me you look for 'keys' for 'secrets' that engage the unconventional component in all of this technology then this might be something to try out, a design feature to add.

Of course Stiffler could give his opinion about this as it is almost exclusively his circuits I'm correlating , is this Bifurcation a key tool for tapping/disrupting the lattice? (If he doesn't know what I'm talking about you can pretty much rule this correlation out, but so far it seems to be a favorite circuit design and observation of his)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 08, 2008, 01:24:18 AM
WILBY nicely put
BEN nice observation Oxy off to the side
Chet

Hi Gang,

To all the thinking heads out there...............OK..............THINK.............

How many equivalent watts of heat + light is in that nice hydrogen flame as DEMONSTRATED BY DR. STIFFLER?

What is the worse case electrical input in watts to the SEC?

OK THINK just a little bit..................How much more does he have to feed it to you.??????  95% of the good folk on this list should have figured it out by now and be grinning like heck.  The other 5 % will come up with a theory about why it isn't heat, why it isn't light, why it can't be that efficient.  Come on pontificates (BS Artists), give us a break.......

How efficient is it?  The answer is somewhere between 0 and XXXX watts, have some fun here, do some research!......

Any answer longer than three lines is someone who just likes to jaw about things.

You don't have to "Publish or Perish" on this list just straight answers will do?

Respectfully
 
Ben

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 08, 2008, 01:31:41 AM
It's obviously OU, but what should we have figured out?
Based on the figures he provided it takes multiple pairs to become OU though and a really useful input may require a larger SEC.
Not seen (well technically not heard) the video yet.

Maybe you believe OU to be less common with electrolysis than I do? Still yes it is very good, but maybe I'm missing something? (is it crazy OU?)

BTW what did you think you had found the other day?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 08, 2008, 01:45:45 AM
BEN we know its 95 99% efficient the sec he has looks bigger than mine [coil]  Chet PS 'calculations based upon evolved gas using a factor 2.7 watts per liter' 1.4 volts per anode times 2  2.8volts 
Aether   each sec  with 2 carbons  adds 37% to the cell   each sec uses 2.7 watts   power is linear production is not [I think]
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 08, 2008, 01:49:19 AM
What I do is come up with correlations, and while it's just a curiosity at this moment I may have found one.

Stiffler told me something and said 'private' so I checked with him first and it appears that he's given me the Ok but the reply was defiantly short and non expressive so I hope I'm not going beyond what he meant or wished, anyhow when my SEC attempt failed Stiffler informed me that "base circuit causes bifurcation", he said some other stuff but let's just stick to that. (I will note that he did mention not all transistors work, though I think he has likely mentioned that before?)

Ben mentioned something weird in the Bifurcated electrolysis circuit.

Then there is the optical coherence circuit Stiffler made which again used Bifurcation.
And of course the AV plug.

And JLN's AFEP, Tesla coils, Autoignotion coils and various others, parallel bucking bifilar and caduceus coils?
I 'untangled' Hendershots circuit recently and it seems to fit very well.
Ed Gray's 'Splitting the positive'?

So is there something that happens in such circuits?

Could it be separation of 2 different current types?
Or slamming of different currents into each other which excites the aether/lattice? (of course that does not fit the term)
Or currents flowing 2 directions in the same wire?
Does current loop around in the 2 branches (as in an AV plug)?
Is there induction between the branches? (I'd guess not in all cases)

There could be multiple effects and plenty of reasons both conventional and unconventional for such a circuit topology, and  you don't give it the right conditions it won't work, assuming the correlation is valid which it could easily not be given the lack of data.

This is due to it's simplicity and commonality not going to be a very easy correlation to prove by growing it by further data mining.

But if you are like me you look for 'keys' for 'secrets' that engage the unconventional component in all of this technology then this might be something to try out, a design feature to add.

Of course Stiffler could give his opinion about this as it is almost exclusively his circuits I'm correlating , is this Bifurcation a key tool for tapping/disrupting the lattice? (If he doesn't know what I'm talking about you can pretty much rule this correlation out, but so far it seems to be a favorite circuit design and observation of his)

@aether22 @All
The jiggle, ping, poke, tear, vibrate, excite or whatever one wishes to call it (of the spatial lattice) is indeed caused by the extreme bandwidth of an Exciter. The reason behind this is not easily modeled because before you can do this one must believe that there is an energy lattice that can be accessed and when so done, return energy to the primary circuit.

The SEC Exciters are bifurcating oscillators as well as negative resistance oscillators. This is a complex behavior in a fully active device which operated both in the linear and non-linear modes. If it will just bifurcation there are a few very good papers, one of whic was done on the Colpitts oscillator model. Although the basic model for a SEC Exciter is closer to the Clapp oscillator. You might look at JLN's sight for his Negistor work. Seeing this you will understand the difficulty of modeling my design.

As to commonality between SEC and the other mentioned systems, I do not know, I know little about them and some only in passing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 08, 2008, 02:25:49 AM
BEN we know its 95 99% efficient the sec he has looks bigger than mine [coil]  Chet PS 'calculations based upon evolved gas using a factor 2.7 watts per liter' 1.4 volts per anode times 2  2.8volts
Aether   each sec with 2 carbons adds 37% to the cell   each sec uses 2.7 watts power is linear production is not [I tkink]
@ramset
Chet, it is a bit more complicated than a simple answer like this. First for anyone to understand what they are looking at, one should look at some of the YouTube FAKED videos where they are burning Alcohol, Gasoline and what ever. Simply looking at the flame of these videos tell pages of the story.

Most people that have worked with HHO and burned it know full well of the extreme speed of hydrogen as compared to the oxygen. Now another fact is that even if I were Merlin the Magician it would be very difficult to place a catalyzer in that small Al tube holding the wick. Now looking at the work of Kanzius/Roy one should compare the flames from my unit and theirs. I think their flame wonders about because the water is avtive (I may be wrong). Kanzius states his will work down to 3% solution, but again he is +200W.

My demo uses 100% saturation and the power is 12.655V@86.35mA so we have a bit of a difference. My flame is very calm, I sure wish someone would send me a Sterling Engine.  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 08, 2008, 02:33:36 AM
Never mind.
Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 08, 2008, 02:43:38 AM
In an attempt to reduce any negative effect of my blabbermouthery I tried to post this as a modification but the modify time passed too fast.


Update:

Ok, watched the vid, very interesting that the flame had the bubbling, the energy field is effecting even combustion seemingly.
I don't have a clue how much energy is going into the SEC or coming out of the flame, but I am happy to agree it's OU, that was IMO established when he released the plans (he's rightly paranoid about claiming OU and being wrong or unsure and he's very competent).

So, the question now is can it be made practical, or the question I rather even more is can we not have the same multiplication effect with an electrical output?
But keeping on topic really what needs to be done is to either:

Make it so practical people use it for heating. Heat pumps are more efficient than electrical heaters, and the SEC will lose energy from conventional battery charging, might have to be beyond 300% to attract people but that seems to be doable, however it seems doubtful the current SEC's are powerful enough for this to be practical, and storage of produced gas is probably a bad idea.

Make a demo that is obviously crazy OU and have people replicate it as a demo more than anything practical.

Close the loop, not awfully easy though as heat/combustion to electricity is inefficient, no idea how a fuel cell works and I have no idea if that could work for a H and O mix.

Or finally figure out what's going on and make it dramatically bigger and better, things might grow in unexpected ways.

Stiffler (Or Ben), could you give your impression, your guess as to how much output (in liters per minute, or watts of heat and light) a current 15-3 SEC could output without going insane with adding more and more pairs? (say 20 pairs max)

Also does adding more pairs lower the electrical input or just raise the gas output, or both?
And how does the 37% efficiency increase work?

What's the best approach? Stiffler?

>>Be creative and work fast, very fast.   
Ominous

>>If you want me back on this thread I would expect that you all will police it for me. I'm sick of the crap and I have tried so if you ever want anymore, help me on this, Ok?

What are the main issues? (that we should attempt to police in ourselves or others)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 08, 2008, 02:56:21 AM

My demo uses 100% saturation and the power is 12.655V@86.35mA so we have a bit of a difference. My flame is very calm, I sure wish someone would send me a Sterling Engine.  ;D

Ah, now I get it, that's 1.09w in and that flame looks to me (and I honestly don't have a clue, but to take a stab in the dark) like 20w? (Of course I should have known the current/power in, but I didn't so shoot me)
A key question is how many carbon rod pairs are you using in that demo? If one then your document was indeed sanitized!

So it could be indeed OU enough to prove to anyone who isn't f'd in the head that it's OU. (or whatever term seems most suited with Doc's dislike for the term)  or OU enough to run closed loop.

Now can it be made practical with the current Gen of SEC's because that would be excellent.

Maybe the 'creative' comment was an indication that the figures given in the patent app. aren't the limit of this tech?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 08, 2008, 03:41:16 AM
@All,
Last one to the fire is a rotten egg......assuming I don't blow this up....... ;D Safety Goggles anyone? I'm done talking about it for now. Loki's SEC driven HHO Reactor REV 1.00 LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!

Warning: Don't copy me! I Gotta start somewhere!

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 08, 2008, 03:50:15 AM
Jim SWEET  Gonna be warm in the lab this winter   on demand heat   A bit of GENIOUS there also [design] Chet
JIM I know the 8500fps of HHO doesn't apply here BUT having that container and tube filled with GAS is not like wicking at the sourse   you have a manifold filled with gas   maybe NO concern or maybe not ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 08, 2008, 06:59:01 AM
A question that comes to mind:
Is the gas coming from the carbon rods Browns Gas or Bingo fuel?
Naudin used a carbon arc to produce Bingo fuel.
I don't know if the arc is needed to get bingo fuel?
How could we tell?  The flame colour should tell us. Who has a spectrum analyzer? :)
Remember bingo fuel contains Carbon monoxide and Methane gases, which are toxic.
So make sure you keep a good air flow around you when using this, don't want anyone harmed.
I do hope it's HHO gas, you can breath that stuff without any ill effects.

For those who want to know how they can help the Doc. out, that's easy to do.
Build yourself a SEC and start experimenting, then post your results,
that's the best way you can help.
The more we know about it the better. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 08, 2008, 07:07:52 AM
Seems pretty unlikely to me,. (based on the way it formed in the SEC videos and I think the arc is very probably needed for Bingo)  And I think it was established a few pages ago that carbon electrodes don't decay? as steel ones were doing in some conditions, without decaying rods no hydrocarbons.

Also steel contains carbon so would normal HHO be unaffected?


And as to your question below, yes they do, notably so. (though not that I am aware of with electrolysis except for synergistic effects from adding further electrode pairs of course  -  though it might occur if the experiment was performed)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 08, 2008, 07:11:02 AM
Glancing over the forum all I found so far are single SEC units, I might have missed something.
Has anyone used 2 or more SECs at the same time, in the same area? 
I wondered if they interfere with one another in some way.
If not then we can get whatever output we need by using a number of them together.
Have a number of them all producing gas at the same time,
then pipe it into an engine or heating system.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stephenafreter on August 08, 2008, 08:33:12 AM
Hi, three very interresting videos to recommend, that may be useful at this stage of development :)

1- watch the increasing in power by using 2 SEC at the same time !!

Spatial Energy Coherence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WP_i4Nu510

2- How to protect yourself while testing the water burning power of the SEC:
Simply insert some bronze wool in your pipe ! It's use for HHO systems;

Flashback arrestor demonstration. Fine Bronze wool inline : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x3HR6J-StY&feature=related

3- Shows a very interresting way to burn water.

Water can burn? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApNYP_E_P4Y&feature=related
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stephenafreter on August 08, 2008, 08:44:12 AM
Hey, I made an error about the third video, it seems to be an hoax ... but I found another video that demonstrates the hoax, AND in this latest video the guy shows electrolysis gas burning, AND the flame is the exact same bright yellow color as in SEC experiment :) :) so I encourage you to have a look.

Amazing! WATER CAN BURN! Use Water As Fuel!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs13jBWqFjA

sorry for the mistake, I'm so excited since 4 days I discovered the SEC thread ...  just can't sleep well since, SEC technology is just flashing in my head all night, and it never happened before. It must be our chance to get cheap and clean power, the answer of the quest !

Thanks Mr Stiffler !
MDG
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 08, 2008, 10:39:30 AM
Jim SWEET  Gonna be warm in the lab this winter   on demand heat   A bit of GENIOUS there also [design] Chet
JIM I know the 8500fps of HHO doesn't apply here BUT having that container and tube filled with GAS is not like wicking at the sourse   you have a manifold filled with gas   maybe NO concern or maybe not ?

@ramset and all,
Yes....I agree completely with the warm lab this winter and the pressurized manifold statements. I WILL NOT be putting fire to number 1 with out serious additional thought and work into NOT BLOWING IT AND MYSELF UP! Reactor number 1 I think needs some type of pressure relief or pop-off and a check valve possibly or flame arrestor. I will be working on it much more. But I am going to see how well it bubbles.  ;D
Now Reactor number 2 is following along the lines of Dr. Stiffler's last video but using an old 2-liter coke bottle cut just so. This one I will probably put fire to assuming the local welding supply store has what I'm looking for. The burner will be built by modifying the cap and adding aluminum or brass tubing to it. I can easily experiment with proper orifice sizes that way just by building multiple cap/burners.
Seriously, last one to the fire is a rotten egg....LOL  ::)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 08, 2008, 11:26:43 AM
@All,
Something like this. I hope the local welding shop has my carbon rods, I want to make fire today........ ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 08, 2008, 12:14:08 PM
@All
When I get it right and can sustain a flame the cap will become aluminum. Then it should be no problem to make a power in measurement and a power out measurement by literally making over-unity tea......so to speak!  ;D No more working in a 58F lab for Loki!  8) 8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on August 08, 2008, 12:30:21 PM
This is a great thread! I'm impressed with the SEC generating HHO, it looks overunity to me! I am going to give it a go with my SEC15-1

COUNT ME IN FOR TWO OF THE NEW GENERATION SECS IF THEY GET BUILT!

@all
I have discovered that if I saturate the SEC15-1 output inductor (inductor just before AV plug) just right using a handheld neo magnet (1/4 inch x 1inch) then I can get very strong SEC output, I think it encourages the higher frequencies? Its best to watch a neon while you do it to find the sweet spot, only recommended with a heatsink on your SEC transistor. I think this might be helpful for all those going for fire.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: pomodoro on August 08, 2008, 01:16:35 PM
I just finished my copy of Dr Stifflers SEC using a 2n3553 Rf transistor but there seems to be no difference to the output.
 Shorting the neon caused the current to jump from 30ma to 70ma.I was hoping that the AV plug might power the neon with 'free power' using some new unknown mechanism. The next step will be to add more and more AV plugs and watch the effect on current to the oscillator.  If more plugs make the oscillator draw more current is there any hope for OU?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 08, 2008, 03:10:25 PM
Hey, I made an error about the third video, it seems to be an hoax ... but I found another video that demonstrates the hoax, AND in this latest video the guy shows electrolysis gas burning, AND the flame is the exact same bright yellow color as in SEC experiment :) :) so I encourage you to have a look.

Amazing! WATER CAN BURN! Use Water As Fuel!! : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs13jBWqFjA

sorry for the mistake, I'm so excited since 4 days I discovered the SEC thread ...  just can't sleep well since, SEC technology is just flashing in my head all night, and it never happened before. It must be our chance to get cheap and clean power, the answer of the quest !

Thanks Mr Stiffler !
MDG
@stephenafreter @All

Now I can be critical and condemning, why? Because the video mentioned 'I believe is FAKED' Why? Not because 3- 9volt batts could not produce HHO that might POP if enclosed until ignition, but primary reason is the second liquid it totally clear, where is the gas? Yes indeed it burns with the same color but where is the gas? To support a flame like that would take one milky looking substance and it would only last a second and make a loud noise. This is not HHO. It is not the complex gas that comes from other working devices.

There now said please don't be taken in by this high school demo.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 08, 2008, 03:22:05 PM
I just finished my copy of Dr Stifflers SEC using a 2n3553 Rf transistor but there seems to be no difference to the output.
 Shorting the neon caused the current to jump from 30ma to 70ma.I was hoping that the AV plug might power the neon with 'free power' using some new unknown mechanism. The next step will be to add more and more AV plugs and watch the effect on current to the oscillator.  If more plugs make the oscillator draw more current is there any hope for OU?
@pomodoro
Well I am not surprised at it not working. All of us on the thread that started out and build different models as the circuit evolved and many configurations were tried, all found that each replication seems a bit different and that was from the basic construction platform and different parts. The ones that obtained similar proto boards and coils were closest in duplication, yet small capacity differences made a significant difference in some.

The SEC 15-3 and 15-20 circuit boards are of precise design built around the transistor and other components, intrinsic to the board layout is certain parasitic capacitance that is required to obtain its operation from such a small foot print board.

You are not going to be able to just plug a VHF or UHF transistor into the design, up the voltage and get a SEC Exciter, if you can I want you on my team 'at once'.

I wish I could make it easy, but if you read through the thread you will see it can not be, at least not yet. G2 and G3 if produced is far more complex than the 15-3 and 20 and is indeed designed for two versions one of 10W and the other 15W. Of course the primary difference here is cost because of the special transistors I use. MPSA06's won't make the cut.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 08, 2008, 03:35:52 PM
@ALL

Slow up a bit fellows and slowly read the document. I can tell from what I am seeing that the first replications will not work.

Why?

1) Sizes are wrong for the Exciter. You need a minimum V/m density and that depends on both cell size and the voltage available from the Exciter. Your not using the AV Plug or diodes to drive the gas reactor, but you can use the AV plug to find the output of your exciter. Remove the neon, replace with a 100uF/250v cap. Turn the exciter on, leave for one minute. Quickly turn off the exciter and measure the voltage across the cap. DO NOT leave one or more leads of your meter connected while charging. If you have a leaky cap get another one.

2) The cell should NOT be pressurized. If you go to using flame suppressors you will be required to maintain a minimum pressure for the gas to get through. This gas is not explosive like the common HHO, but it will back burn, but only if it can receive oxygen. Good container, good rate of production, don't let the water get way down so you have a buildup and you will have a very nice slow burn control able flame.

3) Based on exciter voltage you get your container, this is used to calculate the electrode spacing.

4) Read the document I have seen people think that getting the voltage higher on the electrodes would increase operation. The voltage is high enough, if you run your cell, stop it and quickly measure across a pair of electrodes you can see voltages up to 350V, it will decrease fast from the load of the meter, but you can get a fast look. This voltage is generated inside the cell.

Fellows has no one seem the circuit yet, guess what, this is a reverse AV Plug with the earth as the source.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 08, 2008, 03:56:10 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,
Thanks Doc.

Best,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 08, 2008, 04:23:01 PM
Fellows has no one seem the circuit yet, guess what, this is a reverse AV Plug with the earth as the source.

That was obvious, but you know what, I think that's the difference.

One thing I have found many times (though there are some seeming exceptions, where isolation occurs only through an inductor) is an isolation between one part that excites the medium, and the part that receives the energy.

So if you replaced electrolysis with something else but used the same form (the water, the diodes and ground) you might well find OU with any load.
Of course electrolysis is the natural choice with all the water.

Of course also worth noting as was the point of your message, electrostatic pingings of the water do play a part (not all is provided by the plug apparently) so maybe I am oversimplifying it, still the fluros did show the same tendency apparently (more light less current with additional fluros)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on August 08, 2008, 04:30:38 PM
Well it has been a busy time in my life lately .. nice to see Dr. Stiffler showing and evolving the SEC ... looks like I have some major catching up to do.

@ Jim ... for your version 1 .. you could pass it through a bubbler ... bring the tube into a water bottle .. using water as the medium to stop the flash back.  This is what I use in my conventional HHO producer ... that being said ... welding flash arrestors will not work as Hydrogen has such a fast propagation burn ...

Nice book Jim ... Time Pattern's  ... have had that one for a few years now ... nice little bible.

Please correct me if I am wrong ...

the gasses being produced if it is only H and O2 and these are burned together will give a very loud  ear ringing popping sound when extinguished ... it will not matter on the the size of the flame.  There must be enough gass being produced to continue the flame to burn on top of itself and not have the flame burn into itself and blow up the vessel.  Now if gass being created has other then H and O2 in it then what I have said just won't matter .. lol.  Either way get a damn sterling engine on this flame and make it self run ... sheesh what more do you need for proof ... I can hardly wait till I get my workshop back up as I have recently moved.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: mdmiller on August 08, 2008, 06:00:07 PM
@yucca

I have discovered that if I saturate the SEC15-1 output inductor (inductor just before AV plug) just right using a handheld neo magnet (1/4 inch x 1inch) then I can get very strong SEC output, I think it encourages the higher frequencies? Its best to watch a neon while you do it to find the sweet spot, only recommended with a heatsink on your SEC transistor. I think this might be helpful for all those going for fire.

I mentioned this to the Dr a couple of months ago.  I found the sweet spot to be between the chokes or right at the edge of the 10uH.  Take a small neo and put a 1" or so steel wood screw on it to focus the flux, then use the tip of the screw, it works much better since the spot is so small.  Actually touching the screw tip to the choke body makes things go crazy (right where you can see the coil at the end of the body), and turn it at a 45 degree angle to the longitudinal line of the choke for even more.  There is also a spot exactly between the chokes about 4mm or so above the board surface.

A neo placed on the face of the .01uF cap also causes some improvement.  But BE CAREFUL, I've smoked the transistor several times (even with a heat sink), and burn out my gear, there seems to be a surge taking place.  It also leads to extreme headaches.  The last time I did this, about an hour afterward lighting hit the tree in the front yard, just so you've been warned.
-Duane
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: spinner on August 08, 2008, 09:01:04 PM
>>Selfrunning cold electricity circuit ....<<
Hmm, selfrunning... Cold electricity....

Btw, where is this additional energy for "selfrunning" supposed to come from? Ambient heat, RF, atmospheric charges, .. ZPE?

What happend with the original circut (oscillator, ...) and why are you now working woth "superefficent electrolysis"? Is this circuit recognised as OU? (12V, a few tens of milliamps and a burning flame...I would say so.).
Any valid measurements made so far, like calorimetry? It's still a work in progress, right?

Sorry for asking and thanks for (possible) answers.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 08, 2008, 09:02:03 PM
@All

A couple of problems are floating to the surface with replications.

1) Connection of Cu (copper) wire to the carbon rods within the electrolyte is a big problem. One replicator had a cell running for 13 hours and the flame went out. It could be re-lighted but would go back out after about a second. The input to the Exciter was consistent of when it was burning. The cell was disassembled ant it was found that the epoxy around the connection was not 100% and the wire dissolved.

2) Replicator left the connection end out of the electrolyte, but used a SS screw and a Cu tab to connect the Cu wire to the rod. It appears that there was some catalytic action because the Cu tab and wire to dissolve.

I have had similar problems. We need a good way to make the connections so that the metal reactions with each other and the electrolyte will not destroy the connection. I think the first design by Loki may be a possible answer, all connections fully external of the cell. This problem is out of my area of expertise, we need input by those in other areas.

I am now going for a design like Loki and use Cu clips on the external rod connection. The only thing is we need to seal the rod entry for at least 2 atm.

Open for ideas from the group.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 08, 2008, 10:47:43 PM
@All

A couple of problems are floating to the surface with replications.

1) Connection of Cu (copper) wire to the carbon rods within the electrolyte is a big problem. One replicator had a cell running for 13 hours and the flame went out. It could be re-lighted but would go back out after about a second. The input to the Exciter was consistent of when it was burning. The cell was disassembled ant it was found that the epoxy around the connection was not 100% and the wire dissolved.

2) Replicator left the connection end out of the electrolyte, but used a SS screw and a Cu tab to connect the Cu wire to the rod. It appears that there was some catalytic action because the Cu tab and wire to dissolve.

I have had similar problems. We need a good way to make the connections so that the metal reactions with each other and the electrolyte will not destroy the connection. I think the first design by Loki may be a possible answer, all connections fully external of the cell. This problem is out of my area of expertise, we need input by those in other areas.

I am now going for a design like Loki and use Cu clips on the external rod connection. The only thing is we need to seal the rod entry for at least 2 atm.

Open for ideas from the group.


@All,
I was concerned with corroding copper via electrolysis hence the external connections. So much so that I did not pay attention to the calculations for my electrode spacing. The diameter of that container in design #1 is 4.7625cm which should give me a bit over the required 3kV/meter electrostatic bias field but my electrode spacing appears to be less than half the required dimension. I will correct this.
And also look at some of the conductive epoxy adhesives along with old motor brush bonding techniques for possible solution to the wire to electrode connection.

Sealing of the rod entry could possibly be accomplished by using an O-ring epoxied into place under the lid/electrode holder of the container.

The capacitor test on my SEC exciter showed a developed voltage on the capacitor after approximately 1 minute of run time of 149.8VDC. I am considering a cell made from plastic pipe with an OD of 2.00" but greater height to allow greater than the 75ml of water held by the current container. I will update the group as I progress. Thanks for pointing out my mistakes Dr. Stiffler.

I am hoping to get a replication going shortly.

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 09, 2008, 01:43:11 AM
@yucca
I mentioned this to the Dr a couple of months ago.  I found the sweet spot to be between the chokes or right at the edge of the 10uH.  Take a small neo and put a 1" or so steel wood screw on it to focus the flux, then use the tip of the screw, it works much better since the spot is so small.  Actually touching the screw tip to the choke body makes things go crazy (right where you can see the coil at the end of the body), and turn it at a 45 degree angle to the longitudinal line of the choke for even more.  There is also a spot exactly between the chokes about 4mm or so above the board surface.

A neo placed on the face of the .01uF cap also causes some improvement.  But BE CAREFUL, I've smoked the transistor several times (even with a heat sink), and burn out my gear, there seems to be a surge taking place.  It also leads to extreme headaches.  The last time I did this, about an hour afterward lighting hit the tree in the front yard, just so you've been warned.
-Duane

Thank you very much for that! (and Yucca too)

I have had an electrical event after one of my experiments and I have heard of many other cases, lightening or electrical arcs or blown grid transformers during or after experiments. (in some occasions continued arcs inside rooms even after the device is off)

These alterations are precisely what I would expect, and what has confused me is that so often doing these things has no effect.

The problem with this whole area of the aether/lattice is that the effects are not always present when they should be, because of course it's not electrical but spacial (and until they reach a critical mass you have nothing) and if you use things that amplify aetheric effects without a primary aether effect you get nowhere.

And then there is the issue of turning the aetheric disturbance into something that can be used.

But Stiffler has done it, IMO he really does not realize the power of this stuff given the right components (or at any rate has no idea of the components) to feed of the effect, Stiffler and I have come at this from totally different directions, for myself I have come from the big picture that starts out fuzzy and gets more detailed and defined and finally might just become practical.
Where Stiffler has come from the detailed small effect, he doesn't start out with much but he knows what he's got and how to generate it reliably and slowly is can be engineered into something big.

The SEC is the power source, the catalyst to making much larger and more impressive things reliable.

Loki, hows mailing you know what coming? is it coming?  can't wait.




Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 09, 2008, 02:14:43 AM
I've only recently discovered this thread, and have become both intensely intrigued and overwhelmingly frustrated. I'm appealing to "old hands" for help in the form of one or more of the following:

1) An index to key posts, schematics, etc.
2) Any mirror site(s) for www.stifflerscientific.com? It has been inaccessible since I found this thread
3) Any file archive for any and all files (any significant links I've found in the thread seem to be "down.")
4) Information as to how to purchase plans/kits/blank PCBs for SEC 15-3 and/or SEC 5-20 or any other variants?

Thanks in advance for any and all help... I'm struggling to make a living and just don't have all the time needed to chase all this stuff down alone... :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 09, 2008, 02:34:59 AM
I've only recently discovered this thread, and have become both intensely intrigued and overwhelmingly frustrated. I'm appealing to "old hands" for help in the form of one or more of the following:

1) An index to key posts, schematics, etc.
2) Any mirror site(s) for www.stifflerscientific.com? It has been inaccessible since I found this thread
3) Any file archive for any and all files (any significant links I've found in the thread seem to be "down.")
4) Information as to how to purchase plans/kits/blank PCBs for SEC 15-3 and/or SEC 5-20 or any other variants?

Thanks in advance for any and all help... I'm struggling to make a living and just don't have all the time needed to chase all this stuff down alone... :)

Naturally Stiffler will likely help out, but until then you can get the circuit diagram, I posted it and MOST of the parts a page or 2 back (ah, page 57 post 2253 I think), but there are 2 further issues.

One is the ferrite tuning element which consists of a ferrite, and plastic components and wire you wind yourself.
I don't have a clue where to source these from, though maybe Loki does? (Or were they custom made?)

The other is the capacitance between parts of the oscillator, though if you do it on a proven brand or spec of breadboard and replicate the layout you should have no problems at all.

I'm hardly an old hand in this thread though and am looking to get a SEC up and running myself.

Also the website (via at least some of the domains or IP's) is accessible via archive.org in some state
But you'll have to look but I can assure you it is there.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 09, 2008, 03:01:31 AM
Loki, hows mailing you know what coming? is it coming?  can't wait.

@aether22
As soon as I'm done they will be outbound.  ;D There are only so many hours in the day. It is happening.  8) ;)
I'll let you know.  ;D

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 09, 2008, 03:04:58 AM
aether22,

Thank you most kindly for your rapid and useful response. I've made a local copy of schematic and partlist from the message you cited. I understand from your comments that you are attempting to replicate but as yet have not succeeded? I watched one YouTube vid today of a successful breadboard replication, and in it he mentioned that he had to do quite a bit of "tinkering" to get it going. (see http://www.youtube.com/user/plengo).

I have plenty of magnet wire in the garage for coil winding... :)

I'd be happy to purchase a blank PCB given a source, or etch one myself given a pattern...

FYI, archive.org is one of the first places I looked... however, the only thing that showed is the "top level" page? Links did not seem to work.

Thanks again for your help! :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 09, 2008, 03:43:07 AM
FYI, archive.org is one of the first places I looked... however, the only thing that showed is the "top level" page? Links did not seem to work.

Hmmm, you may be right then.

His site comes back and goes away so it may come back again, I think if it does I'll make an effort to save a bit more, I do have a copy of the TMB page.

Incidentally I can identify something like 6 or 7, maybe 8 devices that have magnetic and electric config of the TMB (current passing straight along magnetic field lines) and each one has low voltage currents which move through the air, I can't even find any instances of that magnetic/current config where that does not happen! (well one it isn't stated to happen but there is an open circuit battery so...)

There are tons of stunning correlations that let the underlying nature of this be seen, still have not found anyone interested in them but me beyond Stifflers single interest in emission from plasma tubes which last I heard he felt was extremely gainful if somewhat impractical/dangerous.

However my method of investigation has deep flaws, it gives information in a way that lacks the details to really make it work, and details are far more important in this than any conventional technology type than I am aware of.

Sorry to get off subject though, it truly is best to grasp for this sure thing Stiffler has, throw everything at it once you get it going but get it going first, replication should always be precise because this stuff is as dead as a doornail if you don't get it right.


BTW I would tend to be careful of anything with iron/steel particles being excited too well with a SEC, it's always iron that is responsible for the truly most WTF effects based on my correlations. (and is likely why the ferrite has it's effects)
That is possibly in part why the magnet did what it did.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on August 09, 2008, 04:12:49 AM
I've only recently discovered this thread, and have become both intensely intrigued and overwhelmingly frustrated. I'm appealing to "old hands" for help in the form of one or more of the following:

2) Any mirror site(s) for www.stifflerscientific.com? It has been inaccessible since I found this thread
3) Any file archive for any and all files (any significant links I've found in the thread seem to be "down.")


Doc mentioned earlier (couple of pages back) that he will have his site online only on the weekends so check it out tonight/tomorrow.

http://67.76.235.52/
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on August 09, 2008, 10:08:14 AM
man this thing is doing my head in! Thats a LOT of hho+??? to have such a fat sustained flame. The spectral shots look familiar  from a novel electrostatic transformer... check it out @ http://www.hmi.de/people/boenisch/articles/esd_transformation_for_web.pdf - Is it possible this whole thing works as a simple varied capacitance type effect? Has the gas composition been analyzed? Its soo true that so much of science and physics come AFTER technology. Hell! Wouldn't it be messed up if mankind has missed out on somthing BIG in electronic engineering. Or simply ignored something. Unfortunately I don't expect many uni peoples to stake a deadline on figuring this one out! Word up some geniuses people!   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 09, 2008, 02:27:57 PM
I've only recently discovered this thread, and have become both intensely intrigued and overwhelmingly frustrated. I'm appealing to "old hands" for help in the form of one or more of the following:

1) An index to key posts, schematics, etc.
2) Any mirror site(s) for www.stifflerscientific.com? It has been inaccessible since I found this thread
3) Any file archive for any and all files (any significant links I've found in the thread seem to be "down.")
4) Information as to how to purchase plans/kits/blank PCBs for SEC 15-3 and/or SEC 5-20 or any other variants?

Thanks in advance for any and all help... I'm struggling to make a living and just don't have all the time needed to chase all this stuff down alone... :)
@creator

Forgive me for my lack of faith in humanity, but your questions seem more in line with 'Discovery' than grass roots scientific interest.

Lets hope no one is making boards which are in any way a copy of mine..............

'Old Hands', interesting wording, why not read the thread, that's how every one else has done it. Newbie, first post, late in the game but makes a list of the entire overview.

Well if you entered the thread wrong, you by mistake raised Red Flags for sure.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 09, 2008, 03:58:46 PM
Note: I had one of my patented stupid long rants no one reads anyway, turns out it could be summed up as:


Can't we all just get along?


And then on rereading the post I was replying to figured that not only did I misunderstand it initially but my post was overkill.
 

Only one comment out if it would I like to retain however random it may be, Stiffler keeps on 'jabbing' at me saying that I sound like a lawyer.
To which I would like to reply that I have been told that since I was like 5, seriously. And I don't know how to change the way I think/communicate.

But with your continued jabbing then I can only conclude you have been royally screwed over by lawyers.

Actually I'd make an awful lawyer as I make arguments that are based too much on generally balanced logic and reason and I don't have any effectiveness at swaying emotions, I could argue for creation in a church or evolution at a Darwin fan boi convention and have only people disagree!
Which causes me to throw more and more logic and reason, but I guess I need to realize that they truly persuade very few people and that charisma is the winner.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on August 09, 2008, 05:44:35 PM
Hey Doc,

User login once again on the site?

How do we register/get the login and password?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 09, 2008, 07:23:58 PM
@creator

Forgive me for my lack of faith in humanity, but your questions seem more in line with 'Discovery' than grass roots scientific interest.

Lets hope no one is making boards which are in any way a copy of mine..............

'Old Hands', interesting wording, why not read the thread, that's how every one else has done it. Newbie, first post, late in the game but makes a list of the entire overview.

Well if you entered the thread wrong, you by mistake raised Red Flags for sure.
@DrStiffler
Hello Doc,
First, sure I'll forgive your lack of faith in humanity. We're all in need of redemption at the most fundamental level.

I hope you'll forgive me for getting excited over a new technology that appears to be repeatable and reproducible. That's a rarity these days, with most things published being vaporware speculation. I hope you won't dismiss me either because I'm a working stiff with a big family and lots of other obligations and I was hoping to read some "source material" to save a little time. Forgive me if I implied some undue competition w/ PCBs, as I don't know how to get one of yours but your videos repeatedly imply that I should be able to, and that there are somewhat obscure but critical elements in the PCB that would help make your experiments reproducible.

My comment about "old hands" was entirely based on my observation that this thread has existed for almost a year now, but I just found it! And so, I will continue to work my way through it, despite discouragement at finding endless broken links that once meant something to somebody. As far as entering the thread wrong, Doctor, I apologize if I've raised red flags, and please let me try again:

============

Hello! I'm a newbie here, but I have a life-long interest in science and technology. I have an open mind and a hands-on approach to experimenting with new ideas. You can "see who I am" if you are curious by visiting my top-level domain, http://flyinghouse.com and/or especially my "science pages" at http://flyinghouse.com/creator/scitech.html and perhaps if you like my invention website at http://subarcsec.com (where I describe a new kind of astronomical equatorial tracking platform that I have released into the public domain.)

I am very interested in replicating and experimenting with Dr. Stiffler's devices, and I see that there is still a lot of "magic" about them in the sense that in his videos he talks about critical capacitances, "fuse traces" on the PCB, and etc., and so I would like to know how I can purchase a blank board to start with. Through the kind assistance of aether22, I've already ordered enough of the parts from Jameco to build two or three SECs based on his parts list in post #2253. There are however "missing pieces" and so I would also appreciate any suggestions about specific coils if possible.

========

PS When I get enthused about something, I tend to "jump in with both feet" rather than sit back and watch quietly, and so I apologize if I've stepped on your toes... I would really appreciate access to your website so I can get things "straight from the horse's mouth" - you can contact me directly via my email address listed with this post if you don't want to "publish" the login information.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 09, 2008, 10:42:13 PM
@DrStiffler  The focus of this thread is currently replication of your burning gas produced from water. I noticed the SEC board in the video looks like the 22uH choke have been replaced with other coils. ie it's not a standard SEC15-3. Can you advise the details of the modified circuit/coils to assist those replicating?

thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 09, 2008, 10:43:20 PM
@DrStiffler  The focus of this thread is currently replication of your burning gas produced from water. I noticed the SEC board in the video looks like the 22uH choke have been replaced with other coils. ie it's not a standard SEC15-3. Can you advise the details of the modified coils/circuit to assist those replicating?

thanks
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 10, 2008, 12:01:47 AM
@DrStiffler
Hello Doc,
First, sure I'll forgive your lack of faith in humanity.

Creator, I have been in very occasional contact with Stiffler for close to 2 years and in that time I had only met the nice and very generous Dr. Stiffler, so when I saw this grumpy old man I was confused and wrote a dumb long apologetic rant telling him he was a grumpy old man (though putting it far nicer).

And then I thought to go to the first page of the thread and I read a message from The Dr. which basically said he knew he was a grumpy old man.

So if he knows he's a grumpy old man sometimes and he wants to be and it's his thread then that is something we can all just accept, he has the right.

But as long as this is understood there doesn't need to be any particular offense taken.

This also forms an apology of sorts to the Doc.

Not to mention, the kinds of crap people get from the more skeptical type of poster, anyone could become grumpy very very fast.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 10, 2008, 02:37:53 AM
@aether22 and DrStiffler,

I'm just here to learn and to try and replicate if possible, not to cause any offense.
I just remembered some more "public evidence" that I'm a "builder" and not here trying to cause any problems:

http://www.pureenergysystems.com/os/MagneticMotors/MXLO/replications/Dann_McCreary/index.html
and
http://www.freeenergynews.com/Directory/MagneticMotors/MXLO/

I hope you can see that when I'm inspired by a project I do try to work with it and contribute...
And so, thanks to all for the interaction! If I need any additional guidance on etiquette for this thread, I'm all ears. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 10, 2008, 02:48:24 AM
Create  if the doc says its ok I have an extra sec  Chet PS I know at this stage you cant have enough  but you sound like an asset to this thread
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 10, 2008, 08:23:08 AM
I'm a little confused.
The circuit diagrams in this thread are very simple looking layouts.
The parts are readily available, and all this has been given to us all.
So why are some people having trouble replicating the unit?

Also wanted to clear something up, when the doc stated this:

"Lets hope no one is making boards which are in any way a copy of mine.............."

I understand he means making an exact copy of his printed circuit boards. 
And he doesn't mean building a unit from the schematics he gave us.

Am I understanding it right?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 10, 2008, 09:27:01 AM
It's replicatable, but sensitive.

And Stiffler is worried about someone else making money from his boards I'd assume. (but it getting out there would be good however it happened, perhaps surprising the Chinese have not ripped it off already ;) )

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ahchoooo on August 10, 2008, 01:15:26 PM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,

I am not an expert in electronics. I just find what you are doing fascinating. From the past 7 years of research into aether and free energy, I can recognize the similarities of what you are doing and what other great inventors have done in the past. I too would like to experiment with your circuit board, if that is possible. I hope that I can do that in time so that I can demo the board at a class that I will be teaching. I think what you are doing will eventually rock the foundation of current science to its core. It is about time for that to happen. Congratulations.

Regards,
James Chu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 10, 2008, 04:33:09 PM
I'm a little confused.
The circuit diagrams in this thread are very simple looking layouts.
The parts are readily available, and all this has been given to us all.
So why are some people having trouble replicating the unit?

Also wanted to clear something up, when the doc stated this:

"Lets hope no one is making boards which are in any way a copy of mine.............."

I understand he means making an exact copy of his printed circuit boards. 
And he doesn't mean building a unit from the schematics he gave us.

Am I understanding it right?



AbbaRue,
Exactly.......right on....Dr. Stiffler's PCB's are copy righted but he definitely wants us to copy and test the circuits. And replicate the phenomena plus note any new ones as we go. Welcome to it! Exactly!
Best regards,
Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 11, 2008, 05:36:15 AM
I haven't been able to get on the Doc's website, but watched all his videos.
I have searched this thread and can't find the answer to my question.
What's replacing the Barium Ferrite Coil in the latest SEC?
The last description of it I could find used a copper screen wrapped around a core less coil.
I can't even see it in the latest videos.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dag57 on August 11, 2008, 06:04:03 AM
@ anyone...login on Doc's website...how do we register for a user name and password....    PS Great research  Dr.stiffler...i have really enjoyed the thread...i will continue to read and study your work...Thank you, dag :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 11, 2008, 10:43:57 AM
Hopefully Stiffler will see fit to fill the significant? interest in the 3rd Gen SEC's with his new breakthrough, but incase or until then is there any way that someone could breadboard a SEC?

The one challenge in answering yes to that is of course the variable inductor, and so what would be of great interest is if someone who had a working SEC, especially a breadboarded SEC could try various commercially available variable inductors assuming the right ones can't be located.

This should keep replications of this coming which is what everyone (including Stiffler) wants.


As for the new 22uH choke, I guess it's a case of collecting energy from, or giving disturbance to the aether, perhaps Stiffler is skeptically playing with my observation that flux impressed on aether seems to become, well to borrow a popular term 'radiant'?


Oh, sorry for my new large sig in advance, I will prune it in a while but if you don't like it just ignore it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on August 11, 2008, 11:05:32 AM
As for the new 22uH choke, I guess it's a case of collecting energy from, or giving disturbance to the aether, perhaps Stiffler is skeptically playing with my observation that flux impressed on aether seems to become, well to borrow a popular term 'radiant'?

Dear All,

As far as I see the SEC phenomenon - there is no proof so far that
the phenomena relate to _non_ maxwellian activity.

Near field RF is always difficult to handle - especially the electric-magnetic
interaction (without doing comprehensive investigations including elliptical
differential equations) - and simulation of such setups almost impossible.

If we assume that the near complex rf field leads to a coherant interaction
in all involved parts (phase of frequency compounds are "locked" to each other) -
than these field/current would have special properties.

In that context - I would line up the SEC phenomena with Keely devices - where
the "locked" frequency compounds have interesting features. (but in that case
electrical - not mechanical)

In traditional "EE" you try to avoid those effects (like hell).
This is the reason why a proper build up prototype would never work.
(built to avoid the effects)

rgds,

fritz
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 11, 2008, 01:20:55 PM
Dear All,

As far as I see the SEC phenomenon - there is no proof so far that
the phenomena relate to _non_ maxwellian activity.

That is only because you are either ignorant of all of it's effects or your analysis is unbalanced, no one here has any interest in 'debunking' the circuit as you seem to have interest in.

If you are not convinced of it's usefulness but still want to find otherwise then replicate it, if however your interest is only to 'correct' our misconception then please just leave as we have no interest in your opinion/correction.

Of course I may have misinterpreted your intention.

Quote

In that context - I would line up the SEC phenomena with Keely devices - where
the "locked" frequency compounds have interesting features. (but in that case
electrical - not mechanical)

In traditional "EE" you try to avoid those effects (like hell).
This is the reason why a proper build up prototype would never work.
(built to avoid the effects)

IMO all of these devices however they work, electrical, magnetic, sound, heat or 'subtle' effect ' the vacuum in much the same way and with similar principles.

And if you want to simplify the principles for researching anomaly it is to do everything the exact opposite of good practice so I agree with that also.

Principles for good vacuum engineering (aether/lattice):
Current flowing up/down magnetic field lines (this is only a fraction of a larger principle)
Multiphase/frequencies/wave sources interfering  (works with electric or magnetic fields, require sine not sq wave)
Multiple particles up to macro spheres/strips/rings being 'pinged' electrically or magnetically
HV (preferably enough to create speeding particles), Radium, Noble gas, BaFe (especially agitated by sound or fields)
Shorted conductors (if electrically impractical, use in ways that does not involve electrical flow/waste)
Sudden impulse switching, noisy switching and other means of creating noise
Thin wire or multistrand cable
Isolate different parts of the circuit (isolation transformer or caps to transfer power)
Ungrounded (earth grounds can also be beneficial but part of the circuit should not be connected to it generally)
Electrical currents supplied by battery or better, generator (alternator), preferably not mains
Tuning, and not just electrical tuning but more subtle types also.
Magnetic field compression (North North repulsion)
Larger 'home made' cylindrical or parallel plate capacitors with water or air dielectric
Use of a good diamagnetic conductor, Silver (coating) or Carbon. (or possibly a non metal conductor)
Nonlinear, Asymmetric and Biased
Time (accumulation of effect), containment (within magnetic or paramagnetic enclosure, and buildup in water)

And yes that last one was on my list long before Stiffler/lattice333 found this effect, as was carbon which I seemingly inspired the use of from the optical coherence thread.

Possible:
Bifurcation (too little evidence yet but Stiffler sure likes it)
Collapse of charged plasma (It sure seems to but there is as yet a lack of evidence, though it does do something)

And though I can't say it relates to 'spacial' engineering significantly, unshielded motors/buzzers (drill holes or make open ones)

Of course not every principle is suitable in all cases/places obviously, and these principles are in a very condensed form.
There is more but that's as far as I can go without mentioning principles that might seemingly not be plausibly explainable under the lattice model I would assume.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on August 11, 2008, 03:53:21 PM
That is only because you are either ignorant of all of it's effects or your analysis is unbalanced, no one here has any interest in 'debunking' the circuit as you seem to have interest in.

Peace !

If I believe in all the effects, outcome, whatever - replication -,
does it harm anyone if I try to discuss the origin of the effect -
or is this just holy grail/radiant/whatever dogma.

As far as I follow this thread its not clear if the "magic" happens
because of the SEC _OR_ the interaction with SEC or both.

It would be interesting what you think about my posting - thats
why I did it.

The fact that the calculation of the near field interaction is very
complex - its not prooven that the stuff doesn?t follow very normal
principles.

Why should the stuff you see (spatial matrix or whatever) not comply
with kind of standing wave/bubble interference of a near rf field.
Because its too complicated ?

The outcome of my mail was that _I_ think
====
(this does not mean Im right
or I sell the truth or everything else is stupid -this means that im interested in
what you think)
====

that the special properties of the SEC field/current (not the SEC field itself)
is "magic". And there is no moral or debunking or whatever backthought with it.

we are talking about science, not religion.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IsaSIO on August 11, 2008, 05:33:24 PM
Hey Guys

the docs sight has opened up - well maybe a little bit open but i pulled some really good stuff from the older work it seems he has done on hho. some of the stuff is way out there but got a magnetic battery that looks kind of easy to build.

Larry.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on August 11, 2008, 06:41:24 PM
@aether22

Maybe the spatial lattice model is a good working model
for those near field effects that are not tied down with the
usual impedances.

If it comes down to aether and and radiant energy, the name
doesnt matter as long as we just observe what happens.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 11, 2008, 09:01:41 PM
I have finally got caught up in reading the posts of this thread.
Answered all my questions. 
I understand that the Barium Ferrite rod is now replaced with a 22 micro henry inductor,
connected directly from the collector to the AV plug.
And to get more power out we just use a larger size 22u inductor.
I was thrown off because some pictures showed a coil hanging off the board and others didn't.
And no explanation was given for it.  Now I know. 

One suggestion I have now is that we make a list of transistors that we know work.
Has anyone found a high current transistor that works? Say 10A or more?

Thanks for the help, I'll be doing testing now.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 11, 2008, 11:05:33 PM
Peace !

If I believe in all the effects, outcome, whatever - replication -,
does it harm anyone if I try to discuss the origin of the effect -
No, it doesn't, I assumed you were trying to attack it.
I believe understanding the origin of the effect is by far the most important issue, so I'm sorry for misinterpreting your interest. (I have zero time for so-called skeptics, despite being initially skeptical of most things myself)

Quote
or is this just holy grail/radiant/whatever dogma.
Most assuredly not.
I have been investigating this weirdness for an inordinate amount of time with a great level of objectivity. (although to do this you must consider evidence the validity of which is not established by normal peer review but by it's individual and collective merits)

I have had zero interest in theories or dogma.

Quote
As far as I follow this thread its not clear if the "magic" happens
because of the SEC _OR_ the interaction with SEC or both.
The SEC both creates a condition and to at least some extent has feedback with it I believe.
Quote
It would be interesting what you think about my posting - thats
why I did it.

The fact that the calculation of the near field interaction is very
complex - its not proven that the stuff doesn?t follow very normal
principles.
I guess it depends on how far these complexities can be stretched, also is the energy out being in excess of what is deliberately put in not an indication of exceeding explanation under normal principles?

I would wonder who can answer these questions because there is debate about the nature of near and not so near fields, the crossed field antennas and similar come to mind, in some cases these antennas can transmit of the same frequency as another radio and not interfere with it, and pass through shielding.
Indeed every time I have tried to discount the hard to accept notion that fields can be pulled/projected I recall various different highly unconventional antenna types that can pull in strong signals through barriers, or the earth etc...

But getting back to the SEC I guess it really depends just where you stop calling something normal, especially when it is connected to a result that is not normal.

I guess what I am saying is that to really answer your question it must be made far more specific, however I would say I have no doubt that it has non-Maxwellian operation.

Quote
Why should the stuff you see (spatial matrix or whatever) not comply
with kind of standing wave/bubble interference of a near rf field.
Because its too complicated ?
The 'whatever' manipulates these fields and the results are not what would be expected even though there is still some resemblance to convention.

The 'whatever' is the medium of all matter and energy (this is not something I state lightly, but matter is literally made of it) and by exciting/manipulating it you can change the rules for matter and energy, one thing anyone in this field should be clear on is that these devices change the rules and you are as likely to get one 'impossibility' as you are to get 5.  (Anyone who has not realized that is in deep denial or has never applied reasoning to the field)

Quote
The outcome of my mail was that _I_ think
====
(this does not mean Im right
or I sell the truth or everything else is stupid -this means that im interested in
what you think)
I am very happy to share what I know and think, and I would not state that I 'think' the field effects of a SEC exceed conventional expectation in some way, rather I have no doubt whatsoever that in at least some ways to do.

But again if you want more than opinion or conviction we would need to get more specific.
Really though I need to get off this thread talking about SECs and instead having SECs. (excuse the pun)
Loki has promised an inductor which I am so extremely grateful for, but I'm finding it hard not to just jump in anyway and have my own kind of SECs.
But I should wait because otherwise I'll end up with my own version and that will cause problems sharing discoveries I make with my own version on this thread.

So Loki, if you are reading this, I'll pay for the faster/fastest shipping method Ok? (well within reason)
Quote
that the special properties of the SEC field/current (not the SEC field itself)
All 3 to an extent, of course magic is a bad term since it suggests lack of connection between things (to me anyway).
As can be seen in the expanding field around the water capacitor, space is effected. (and these disruptions can remain)
All elements (though some materials seem to be exempt) can become charged (spatially, meaning the space they entrain/drag), programed or changed (monoatomics forming).

Of course these are my views/knowledge, but Dr. Stiffler seems unlikely to give his apparently somewhat different (but not entirely dissimilar) views/knowledge so hopefully this can be considered acceptable that some framework can be provided, at least until some more experimental discoveries pop up which should be soon.

Real understanding is critical to getting anywhere as it is all that stops this from being magic.


BTW AbbaRue, I have not understood what you are talking about in your last 2 posts, are you sure the modifications you have mentioned have taken place or are you possibly misinterpreting something?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on August 11, 2008, 11:43:57 PM
@aether22

Thanks for your comprehensive reply. (!!!)

What concerns the electrolysis - I think that
the effects between electrode(s) and water are linked
to the "chaos-locked"(jamming)- input - while the cell itself feedbacks
(not grounded) to the environment. (SEC field not involved inside water)
The thing on all this electrolysis cell is that at the point you start
electrolysis with dc,ac, pulsed you alter the "water" exactly at the moment
when the change happens (the water dipoles around arrange in a way to
reduce internal energy to minimum again - which stops the energy transfer)
 - this is why people use pulse trains, switching
frequencies, to trick out this change -  optimizing energy transfer.
..., by using "chaos locked, coherent" "jamming" waveform -
you optimize the energy transfer in a very clever way.
(could do the same with locked sine oscillations maintaining a
travelling wave which forces circulation)

rgds.



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 13, 2008, 03:51:05 AM
@All,
A little progress from Loki. Taking some steps forward I believe. There is plenty to understand. Lets see if this video will play for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcgSAamMZE

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: pomodoro on August 13, 2008, 04:06:14 AM
Gentlemen, I have built a replica of Dr Stifflers SEC circuit. Its not a copy as the transistor is different its a 2n3553 , the   coil is on a toroid and tuning is via a variable cap. The inductors are of different value too.  It has  2 BAW 62 diodes for the AV plug going to a neon. The Neon lights up so I assume that it is doing something although it might not be what the Dr's is doing. The oscilloscope trace obtained by putting the probe near the output inductor looks like a large pulse followed by  2 or 3 much smaller oscillations at optimum tuning. 

(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/5143/p1010013jx8.jpg)

After reading the 60 pages of this thread the confusion has now set in. Lets get down to the basics, what exactly is this circuit supposed to do that special about it? 
What electrical measurements can I take to prove that something special is happening?  Is it an electronic version of Frolov's spark experiments?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on August 13, 2008, 04:45:58 AM
Polystyrene would be better to use in the cells than glass (less losses to di-hysteresis). Then again not as much current will get divided from the SEC. Maybe polystyrene with a very thin coating of something to jack up the capacitance.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 13, 2008, 04:54:18 PM
@All    Much of Dr Stiffler?s web site has been password protected. Unfortunately I have no communication with the Doc or access to his locked pages. Has anyone got access ? Ben? Jim?

At this stage it is unclear of the Doc?s intentions for this thread. I would be highly surprised though if he did not return to at least advise his intentions.

Where are we left? Some of you are attempting replications of SEC without the benefit of having purchased a SEC15-3 board whilst they were available. To be honest - you need to pay a lot more attention to information that Dr Stiffler released.

IMO?? The reason the Doc sold 100 or so SEC15-3 circuit boards was so that people could start with an exact copy of his circuit. Everyone had an opportunity to start at the same point. Out of all the free energy researchers in the past who has ever done this before? Did Moray ? No. Gray ? No. Bedini ? No. To me this speaks of the genuine integrity of the man and his desire to see his circuit developed. Unfortunately he acknowledged that many who purchased the boards were not capable using the board as a starting point.

I purchased a SEC15-3. I replaced the transistor with a socket but have not used it much. Why?
1) I learnt much from just analyzing it ? what components were used, how were they situated, why are some tracks large and some small etc
2) It was supposedly tuned correctly and I did not want to lose the masters tuning
3) there was no tool provided to adjust the ferrite slug in the coil and others reportedly broke the slug trying
4) the circuit board is a piece of art forged by Dr Stifflers research, perhaps it will be a collectors item one day should he be awarded an energy Noble Prize one day.

In my mind if the SEC15-3 simple circuit could not be replicated without a custom circuit board then there was no point pursuing the circuit. The Gen3 circuit sounds like a more complicated beast.

The Dr did not really want people replicating the circuit because he knew they would take shortcuts and end up with a different set of results. Now the opportunity to buy a SEC15-3 board is past so a manual replication is the only option.

My point is this ? go and buy exactly the same parts that the Doc used. @Aether22 put up the parts list in reply #2253. Do not substitute parts like my friend @pomodoro has (wrong transistor, inductor, diodes and chokes). This is a receipt for going nowhere.
Buy everything online at Jameco like the Dr did except the coil.  Here?s the good news about the coil (Aether22 please note)? IMO the coil is not that critical and does not need a ferrite slug. To prove it I hand wound a rough air coil. You can tune the inductance but squashing it in your hand. Dr Stiffler will probably curse me ? but it works. See attached photos.

If you are going to replicate ? do it on a breadboard and layout the components exactly like I have in reply#2205. Note the parts I use are exactly the same as the supplied Sec15-3 (except my usual hand made coil which was wound on a building fastener ? see a previous post of mine for details).

I hope this helps someone.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 13, 2008, 05:03:19 PM
@Pomodoro    You asked ?What does a SEC circuit do?? 

It excites the underlying energy lattice allowing some excess energy to be harvested.

You asked ?how do you know when the circuit is working??

When you can light a small fluro with one lead or better still with no leads (just close proximity) then you are at the start of the race. See attached photos.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 13, 2008, 05:24:14 PM
@Dr Stiffler   You will comprehend progress in understanding dynamics involved.

Intuition - the creator whispers.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on August 13, 2008, 07:26:08 PM
@Lattice333
Thanks for your post, I found it very useful.
Good to know the type of tuning coil isn't critical.

I noticed the current went down from 60mA to 40mA when using 3 fluor. tubes.
Good demonstration photos.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ahchoooo on August 13, 2008, 07:26:25 PM
Hello Dr. Stiffler,

If it is not too late, I would like to order 2 of your G3 boards. Please contact me at jc20031212@fastmail.fm. My email to your address was bounced.

Thanks,
James Chu
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 13, 2008, 09:08:40 PM
@All,
My Jameco parts arrived via UPS today - the unopened box is in my lap - and I am very excited at the prospect of attempting a replication! I am semi "dropping everything" (not quite - but everything I CAN drop) to start tinkering with this.

@aether22,
Thank you so much for the Jameco parts list, without that I wouldn't be this far... :)

@lattice333,
Multiple thanks for your recent and earlier posts with details of how to get a breadboard version of this working... :)

@ramset,
Thank you very much for your kind offer in Reply #2403 to part with an "extra" sec... I immediately responded privately through your "offline" connection, but I don't know if it got through. In any case, my offer to buy it still stands, but if I succeed with the breadboard setup I won't hold you to that offer... either way, thanks for the encouragement! :)

@DrStiffler,
Of course, thank you very much, Sir, for sharing the results of your work with us all! :) BTW, Doc, I have attempted to contact you via your given email and your private connection to say this, which I'll repeat here in case you don't get it through those channels: This is my firm commitment to buy two G3 units from you if at all possible, and also a request for login credentials at your website.

OK, now to open the package from Jameco and get to work... :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: professor on August 13, 2008, 11:20:09 PM
*Deleted*
By Dr. Stiffler

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 13, 2008, 11:51:55 PM
YES Dr Stiffler this guy is a MUT   How can we possibly keep out the crapsters? Chet
THIS WORK IS TO IMPORTANT!!! Dont let a s**t head ruin this
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 13, 2008, 11:52:34 PM
Well fellows if you think this thread is some kind of joke and it needs people that are typical of the internet that are only here to get their jollies, then fine.

The thread and the 'professor' and his kind are all yours. I have been busy with G3's, so much for that fellows I will toss then all if I have to tolerate 807 idiots.

Dr. Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IsaSIO on August 14, 2008, 12:00:58 AM
Hi Doc

hey man look the guy up and send a couple of them texas cowboys to have a talk with him. they can plant a couple boots in the right place. ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 14, 2008, 12:02:27 AM
DR Stiffler this thread is getting more reads every day than any other   even though you are only occasionally here  ALOT of interest The world needs this  the world is looking  G3 ill take 6  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tiltfulll on August 14, 2008, 12:06:02 AM
   @Dr Stiffler

Don't get pissed off, just delete the idiots!
They goal is probably to piss you off so you stop communicating with the others! 
 ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 14, 2008, 12:32:01 AM
Hi Doc

hey man look the guy up and send a couple of them texas cowboys to have a talk with him. they can plant a couple boots in the right place. ;D
@IsaSIO
Thanks for the help, so does that mean I need a cowboy that lives in Canada? Would not have thought it. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on August 14, 2008, 01:10:25 AM
@Dr Stiffler - sorry to be pedantic but shouldn't you rate your cell output in kilovar's rather than kilowatts? Its just if you use the term kilowatts you lead people to immediately assume over unity in relation to the input wattage when your actually drawing reactive power (which is totally awesome to be able to produce super high efficient electrolysis with!!!!).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IsaSIO on August 14, 2008, 01:22:20 AM
@Doc

hey no problem just tell old joerg/prof to fly off. glad to help.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 14, 2008, 01:29:56 AM
@Dr Stiffler - sorry to be pedantic but shouldn't you rate your cell output in kilovar's rather than kilowatts? Its just if you use the term kilowatts you lead people to immediately assume over unity in relation to the input wattage when your actually drawing reactive power (which is totally awesome to be able to produce super high efficient electrolysis with!!!!).
@scraven

You know I would try to answer this if you could explain what you are talking about and where you obtained the information? What cell and powered how??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on August 14, 2008, 01:38:38 AM
"4,800 Watt G3 Super Small Electrolyzer"
Correct me If I'm wrong but the cell works off reactive power yes? That is the power doesn't come from direct or alternating current rather it comes from alternating charge (reactive charging)... the whole premise behind the AV plug and AV's one wire transmission of power in general. (Also explains why the idea never got off the ground because the only thing back then... before the stiffler cell that is... that could use the reactive power transmitted are Fluro lamps).
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on August 14, 2008, 02:27:34 AM
let me explain myself. When you use the term watts you imply that you are drawing current when the only current really involved comes from the mysterious process within the AV plug (the two diodes connected to the electrolysis electrodes). I'm putting forward the idea that the current comes from a reactive power interaction rather than the popular "lattice" explanation.
No offense intended in regards to your own theories - just throwing some ideas in the mix that make a little more sense to me - although you must admit it is reasonable to classify output power in vars rather than watts (watts implies a current draw).
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 14, 2008, 05:01:59 AM
@All,

Here are some preliminary breadboard results, although no joy yet....

Input: ~20V, not yet set up to measure current. I'm getting ~4us bursts at ~30us intervals that start smoothly at ~10Mhz, ramp to an amplitude of ~55V within a microsecond, and destabilize a microsecond later with the amplitude shooting to about 80v and the frequency randomizing while the amplitude trails off (see scope shot.)

I've tried to copy Lattice333's working breadboard as closely as possible (see breadboard photo.)

I will now go back to further tinkering and reading the thread, but if any kind souls with experience care to take pity on me and point me in the right direction for my next step, I'll be most appreciative, Thanks! :)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 14, 2008, 05:29:19 AM
@All:

Success at lighting a fluorescent tube with one wire!
Hallelujah!
And thanks, Dr. Stiffler, and all who helped...

More news and photos later after dinner.... :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 14, 2008, 05:33:53 AM
@Dr Stiffler - sorry to be pedantic but shouldn't you rate your cell output in kilovar's rather than kilowatts? Its just if you use the term kilowatts you lead people to immediately assume over unity in relation to the input wattage when your actually drawing reactive power (which is totally awesome to be able to produce super high efficient electrolysis with!!!!).

Even with your explanation you are not making much sense to me either, now I'm trying to save Stiffler the bother of dealing with your question.

But you can't say output when you are talking about reactive volts and amps, it is circulating not output.
I am not an expert on this subject and I am sure many could answer it better but you don't seem to have a point as far as I can tell.

The output of the electrolysis should be measured based on gas output or better yet the energy from the flame, and not any electrical power which appears to cause the electrolysis, especially as it may output more gas than the electrical power would predict.  Input at least in the 15-3 is known to be about 1 watt for a solid looking flame output.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 14, 2008, 07:32:34 AM
@Everyone,

Here are the promised additional details, photos, and observations:

1) The first "bursty" scope shot had the probe hooked "upstream" of the output inductor; the new setup has enough "oomph" that the probe is hooked up "downstream" of L2.
2) The new scopeshot shows a fairly clean ~30Mhz sinewave with a peak to peak amplitude of about 160v.
3) Transistor heatsink is slightly warm to the touch.
4) After "playing" with the coil (adding turns, squeezing, etc.) I found a tubular ferrite that I happened to have nearby and tried to bring it near the coil - that brought some good results, and so I then disconnected the coil and put it inside the ferrite tube and then reconnected it - that brought the output on strong, and my "first light" (to borrow an astronomical term :) ) of the fluor. tube.
5) The tube brightens noticeably when I disconnect the scope probe.

Well, now to "pick up" some of the things I dropped today so I could do this... :)

I thank God for some headway, thank you Doc for being so open with us all, thanks again to aether22, Lattice333, and ramset. When I can borrow some more time I'll be fiddling with this and its tuning, and trying to replicate some of the other successes I've read about here. I have some new ideas I hope to try as well, God willing. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: jox on August 14, 2008, 09:38:33 AM
Hi Dr Stiffler and All, just a note to say thanks, off to get some carbon arc rods.....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: exnihiloest on August 14, 2008, 10:24:01 AM
*Removed*
by Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 14, 2008, 10:50:30 AM
Well this subject has likely been touched on many times before, but  most recently on page 59, posts 2326, 2330 and 2332

And in post 2359 of the same page we see that the 'lattice' if effected by the extreme bandwidth of the sec exciter.

So from the look of your nice clean signal you may not have it operating correctly, however if it works maybe it does not matter, see IF it acts the same way, so check out some of the suggestions in post 2326 and if it passes then being a tad pragmatic for the moment at least, who cares?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 14, 2008, 02:08:25 PM
@hartiberlin

I will send PM, but if you read this first; Please create 'locked' topic "Stiffler Ultra Efficient Electrolysis"

I will NO longer participate in an interactive thread. It takes far to much time to clean the garbage posted.

Thank you
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kator01 on August 14, 2008, 03:37:34 PM
Hi creator,

can you plese tell what kind of transistor you use and what hfe this transistor has ?
Also how many turns of your air-coil and if possible a circuit-draing.

I wonder how you get 3o mhz sinus when in your former post you write about 10 MHz ?

What about the power in ?

Also a strict warning about using the transistor 2N3553 : Specification reads : "... contains very toxic beryllium-oxyde ". If you blow this transistor and breathe in the smoke you will get a very dangerous heavy-metal-poisoning ! You will not be able to escape the room fast enough.

Regards

Kator
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 14, 2008, 08:48:10 PM
@aether22,

It is almost no doubt not yet running "correctly," but I'm a "learn by doing" kind of guy. I'm still working my way through this vast thread and will be applying what I learn (reading) to what I learn (doing.)

For example, I now know that I need to couple my scope via a "sniffer" coil, and that I need to get a 100x probe (now using a 10x.) Also, I'm not yet getting all the effects reported by, for example, Lattice333. So much to learn, so little time! :) Thank you kindly for the message cross-references, I need to learn about bifurcating oscillators and negative resistance oscillators! :)  I hope to also try other coil configurations since they're very easy to swap in and out.

@Kator01,

I am using the MPSA06, JameCo PN#26462.

The air-core coil is 40 turns of #26 enameled wire wound around a 7/32" screw thread and then removed; however, I didn't get any "results" until I slipped it inside of a 1-1/16" long x 11/16" diameter ferrite core.

The frequency observations are "all over the map" because the coil changed and the entire setup, including scope tap location changed. I now also know that I can't legitimately couple the scope the way I did.

I have not yet been able to measure power in, working on that.

Thank you kindly for the warning about 2N3553 toxicity, I will avoid that. :)

Now I'll add one more pretty picture, then I'll shut up until I have something more constructive to say. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IsaSIO on August 14, 2008, 09:35:49 PM
@aether22,

It is almost no doubt not yet running "correctly," but I'm a "learn by doing" kind of guy. I'm still working my way through this vast thread and will be applying what I learn (reading) to what I learn (doing.)

For example, I now know that I need to couple my scope via a "sniffer" coil, and that I need to get a 100x probe (now using a 10x.) Also, I'm not yet getting all the effects reported by, for example, Lattice333. So much to learn, so little time! :) Thank you kindly for the message cross-references, I need to learn about bifurcating oscillators and negative resistance oscillators! :)  I hope to also try other coil configurations since they're very easy to swap in and out.

@Kator01,

I am using the MPSA06, JameCo PN#26462.

The air-core coil is 40 turns of #26 enameled wire wound around a 7/32" screw thread and then removed; however, I didn't get any "results" until I slipped it inside of a 1-1/16" long x 11/16" diameter ferrite core.

The frequency observations are "all over the map" because the coil changed and the entire setup, including scope tap location changed. I now also know that I can't legitimately couple the scope the way I did.

I have not yet been able to measure power in, working on that.

Thank you kindly for the warning about 2N3553 toxicity, I will avoid that. :)

Now I'll add one more pretty picture, then I'll shut up until I have something more constructive to say. :)

Hi creator

hey have you tried the water jug to get the lights off ??? the doc sent me by express mail one of them 52 3 fellows and i tried the water thing and can put 8 of those 4 watt flour tubes around and they are all bright as can be. i got to get me a digital camera so i can sent up some pictures.

try the water man its different ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 14, 2008, 11:42:01 PM
@hartiberlin

I will send PM, but if you read this first; Please create 'locked' topic "Stiffler Ultra Efficient Electrolysis"

I will NO longer participate in an interactive thread. It takes far to much time to clean the garbage posted.

Thank you


Not sure till when, but Stefan is/was on holiday so don't be sure of an ultra swift reply, unless you know he's already back.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: pomodoro on August 15, 2008, 08:21:39 AM
I would like to know, Dr stiffler, if any measurable current flows from the SEC output inductor to the AV plug.  According to the Frolov references you have given, no current flows between the inductor and the plug while the plug is supplying a load. This is a very amazing claim to make as it goes against known physical laws.
Have you been able to substantiate that claim?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: spinner on August 15, 2008, 09:15:08 AM
To light or power a device from a single wire is conventional electricity. Every conductor is capacitively coupled to the environment, mainly the earth or the ground (for example the capacity of a spherical conductor in space is C=2*pi*epsilon0*R). The neon tube presents also such a capacity to the ground that permits to loop a circuit.
As these capacities are very low (order of pF or less), this explains why high voltages and low currents are preferable to get a significant power.
Of course, even if there is only a single wire, current is consumed because the circuit is looped through the capacity. This is easily verifiable by connecting an ammeter in the circuit of the primary of the transformer powering the neon tube, as in the setup from JL Naudin:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm
The current flows through the secondary of the HV transformer to the neon tube then to the ground of the setup via the capacitive coupling of the neon to its surrounding and finally back to the secondary of the transformer via the capacity between primary and secondary circuits.
I made myself the measurements after replacing the neon tube by resistive charges R. I checked that the consumed current is inversely proportional to R, in accordance to the ohm law.
I also noted that a voltmeter connected to C3 let the voltage to change due to the added capacity provided by the voltmeter.
All this stuff can be easily modelized by conventional software like LT-spice: you have just to add the hidden parasitic capacities that naturally exist between all conductor parts of the setup.
Thus, no OU in single wire circuits.


I agree. Even the basic Kirchoff's rules/laws (they're valid with RF, too) are enough to explain what is happening.
Evaluating a possible OU (energy "gain") with circuits like this is dependable on a 'real calorimetric measurements' only.
The scope shots, multimeters, (wishfull thinking and cursing) are simply not enough.


*Edited*
Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: pomodoro on August 15, 2008, 02:49:12 PM
Today I used a 27 Mhz Cb radio to test the avramenko plug.  The 4W of power was delivered to a 50 ohm dummy load via a swr power meter. Off the dummy load, which consisted of resistors, I connected to the av plug. An electrolytic of  1000uF charged up in a few seconds to about 20V. No descent loads such as lighbulbs could be directly powered but LEDs are. I did notice that the plug did effect the SWR depending on its charge.  Next step is to put my RF ammeter in series to measure the current. It uses a thermocouple to measure true rf current. Problem is that it measures amps so I have to see if I can connect it to a galvanometer to measure mA comparatively.  Why do all this?  Well if the plug does draw current, it ain't free energy and Frolov  not Avramenko , who never claimed OU, is a fraud or delusional.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 15, 2008, 05:05:11 PM
Holy crap this is like kindergarten   no wonder the Doc wants a closed thread   Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on August 15, 2008, 05:49:17 PM
@Dr. Stiffler,

hello doctor. I have been playing with you latest SEC and the water container using two SECs (with some alterations) and I am very please to inform you that charging a led acid battery with it has been simply phenomenal.

I am , again, load testing this process and so far the COP has been if not greater than 1 pretty close to it. Again it is a little bit early to state that but the preliminary tests have been surprising. I will create a video about it soon.

The major difference in my setup is that I connect BOTH SEC to the aluminum foil outside the beacker and the second SEC into the water using a pensil (or carbon rod). It only work like that for the lead acid battery setup, for the regular lamp setup I used that same process as you describe in your videos.

Thank you doc.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 16, 2008, 08:56:27 AM
Hi All,

Well I do have a little news about my testing now.

This morning with a friend present I did a "quick test" and got some (presumably) hydrogen bubbles using my SEC breadboard. I'm uploading a video to YouTube for your viewing enjoyment. The video is being processed, but should become viewable soon:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aTLQsIke44

I have also been testing other coils, having remembered that I had a LOT of 24 gauge wire out in the garage (acquired some years ago for magnetic and pulse motor experiments.)

I think I've achieved better SEC tuning with the new coils, for these reasons:

1) Brighter, hot neon bulb
2) Cooler transistor
3) Fluorescent tubes seem to light easier and brighter
4) Tubes stay lit in proximity to wire even when not touching
5) Tubes and neon stay lit simultaneously
6) Tubes stay lit around water jar

My approach to tuning has been to wind the coils oversize, and then spread them a little by hand until the neon fires, then fiddle with them to fine-tune. My present coil is 42 turns of air-core enameled copper wire initially tightly wound around a 1/4" form (I used the copper tubing that I got for heat sinks) and then spread to tune.

I'm going to see if I can build a SEC exciter on a "standard" Radio Shack copper proto PCB now that I have a working breadboard setup.

Of course, I am always open to suggestions and guidance from you "old hands" who have been getting good replications, and thanks again to all who have helped. :)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 16, 2008, 11:18:34 PM
Creator  No grass under your feet !!  Thank you for sharing    Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on August 18, 2008, 09:32:11 AM
*Removed*
Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 18, 2008, 09:21:43 PM
Hello!

@Dr. Stiffler, I sent you a PM and hope to hear from you soon! :)

@All,

I have continued to "tinker" with some variants of the SEC exciter circuit, with some success.

I built a version on a Radio Shack breadboard and got that working.

This morning I built a "MicroSEC" on a piece of blank PCB, and I'll post a photo here. I've also uploaded many more photos and some "how-to" information here: http://creatorguy.com/  especially for anyone out there who may be trying to build a SEC for experimentation but may have had some difficulty getting one going.

Your (reasonable) comments and questions are most welcome, but please do read the information at my "how-to" site.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 19, 2008, 12:03:36 AM
Hello!

@Dr. Stiffler, I sent you a PM and hope to hear from you soon! :)

@All,

I have continued to "tinker" with some variants of the SEC exciter circuit, with some success.

I built a version on a Radio Shack breadboard and got that working.

This morning I built a "MicroSEC" on a piece of blank PCB, and I'll post a photo here. I've also uploaded many more photos and some "how-to" information here: http://creatorguy.com/  especially for anyone out there who may be trying to build a SEC for experimentation but may have had some difficulty getting one going.

Your (reasonable) comments and questions are most welcome, but please do read the information at my "how-to" site.
@creator

I have not received  mail from you, best yo send to the lab stifflerscientific(at)embarqmail(dot)com.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 19, 2008, 01:29:15 AM
@creator

I have not received  mail from you, best yo send to the lab stifflerscientific(at)embarqmail(dot)com.

Dr.S.
Thanks Doc,

I've sent a message to that address once or twice before and had it bounce - maybe your mail filter is rejecting my email address? Anyway, I've tried again through that channel, but here also is my direct email just in case it fails again:

 creator(at)flyinghouse(dot)com

I may also try sending mail from an alternate domain in case your ISP is rejecting flyinghouse for some reason...

Thanks! :)
-Dann
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: protein_man on August 19, 2008, 11:18:32 AM
Hello everybody and especially Dr. Stiffler!

Thanks for sharing this circuit, just knocked it up on a breadboard, running it off 4xli-ion batteries (about 14v) going through a 92 ohm resistor to limit the current. Mucked around with a coil until I got the neon glowing steadily. I have found if I connect and alligator clip one of the neon leads it actually glows brighter. When time permits I will purchase some small fluro tubes and also start experimenting with electrolysis. My setup is pretty crude but I'm working with what I have. Once again thank you for sharing this remarkable circuit and I'm sorry that there are so many idiots on this forum. By the way Dr. Stiffler I think you are very kind and generous sharing your discoveries.

(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/8862/sec2pg1.jpg)

(http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3525/sec1ib7.jpg)

Just mucked around with the current limiting resistor, changed it to 33 ohms, at the battery the circuit is drawing a measured 33 ma or around half a watt input. Tried two neons in series, no good.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on August 19, 2008, 11:26:29 AM
Dr.
   The comment was aimed at the ones who are heckeling you here, not at you. But since you want to silence me,
then I will leave of my own will. You may delete this and all my posts if any and there will be no more. Good luck
and goodbye.


Thaelin



*Removed*
Dr.S.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: spinner on August 19, 2008, 02:17:18 PM
So, your comment about the "idiot tribe" molesting the researchers here didn't payed off?
Hmm, strange...

And you simply - quit? I think you've overreacted...
Maybe dr.S thought your post is just a little "off the edge"? I'm not angry if he modified mine... Btw, thanks, and i'm sorry for my bad temper/words..!

Oops, I promissed I won't make another comment here... Sorry..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 19, 2008, 07:25:18 PM
@All,

I woke up this morning with an idea for an experiment burning in my brain:

Using some aluminum foil and a child's ball, I made a crude "Hiddink Sphere" single-pole capacitor and hooked it up to my MicroSEC to see if it would take off and float in the air....

Well, no joy yet, but I hope when I have time to try it on a balance beam. :)

You can see another photo and read a bit more about it here if you are interested: http://creatorguy.com

@Dr. S,

I sent two more emails to your lab; one bounced, the other not yet - I hope it got through! :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on August 19, 2008, 09:12:23 PM
@All,

I woke up this morning with an idea for an experiment burning in my brain:

Using some aluminum foil and a child's ball, I made a crude "Hiddink Sphere" single-pole capacitor and hooked it up to my MicroSEC to see if it would take off and float in the air....

Well, no joy yet, but I hope when I have time to try it on a balance beam. :)

You can see another photo and read a bit more about it here if you are interested: http://creatorguy.com

@Dr. S,

I sent two more emails to your lab; one bounced, the other not yet - I hope it got through! :)
@creator
Well I received one mail and responded, did you not receive the circuit I sent you?

It is a problem with embarqmail they are JUNK, once they took over Sprint and I lost Earthlink its like the weather, you never know what is going to happen. Please let me know if you did not receive the reply.

Maybe its still in fed clearing house........... ;-(

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 19, 2008, 09:36:36 PM
@creator
Well I received one mail and responded, did you not receive the circuit I sent you?

It is a problem with embarqmail they are JUNK, once they took over Sprint and I lost Earthlink its like the weather, you never know what is going to happen. Please let me know if you did not receive the reply.

Maybe its still in fed clearing house........... ;-(

Dr.S.
Hi Doc,

Thanks for the courtesy of your reply...

No, sadly, I haven't received anything yet... :( And I do carefully scan my "junk" folders. I hope we can figure this out, 'cause I really need access to your stifflerscientific site, and I sure would love to see the circuit you sent. :) I'll keep watching in case it's taking the "long way 'round."

Thanks for trying! :)

Best regards,
-creator
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 20, 2008, 09:35:10 PM
@All,

I made an error in the MicroSEC schematic on the http://creatorguy.com website.

If you saved a copy, please delete it and go back to http://creatorguy.com for the revised, corrected, and improved version. :)

-creator
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on August 22, 2008, 12:59:04 AM
@creator    Great web site - keep it up

Two observations to share;

1) If you reduce the amount of metal between the output choke and the load then, for the same output power the input current significantly reduces. What was that the Dr said about keeping stray capacitance to a minimum?

Carbon rod however does not load the exciter like metal does. This could have important design implications in building something bigger.

2) Charge a lead acid battery with a SEC plus AV plug. Leave the battery for a few hours and something like half the charge gained whilst charging has been lost.

Comments please.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 22, 2008, 01:50:34 AM
Latice    Plengo [I believe] has been doing extensive sec battery charging research. He seems to feel his numbers are VERY good
Are you seeing diff results ?[I do believe Plengo made some changes to his sec]
Creator Sweet web site!! More
Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on August 23, 2008, 01:57:52 AM
@ramset

yes, I have been doing the load test for a little awhile now and it takes lots of time. I have also changed substantially doc's SECs to many variations. My last variation worked so well that I was impressed myself.

After a few runs, I noticed that I really burned a few chokes and that somehow made it work so well. I am in the process of replicating my "burned" SEC again and it is not easy, but I think it is worthy because it "really" did charge the battery very fast and with real voltage and power and with very, very little input power. Something about the diodes of the AV Plug and chokes being burned that made it work very well.

For now I will say that that experiment is in the "monkey science" phase because it is NOT what I can reproduce it myself and therefore the pictures and videos are on hold.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 23, 2008, 02:23:07 AM
Fausto   you put a smile on my face with that post Thanks. Monkey science sounds interesting .I hope you can reproduce your additional effect    Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 23, 2008, 05:25:05 AM
@All,
If you have interest in the bubbles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-DAobzPQdI
Read the whole thread, several times, try to get past the BS, work at it!
Best regards,
Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 23, 2008, 03:18:44 PM
Jim 'very' interested in the bubbles, what do you mean by a 'single '12volt cell ? thanks for that vid and info Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 23, 2008, 03:56:59 PM
The SEC exciter, a 15-3, is powered by 1ea, 12VDC lead acid cell. The output from the exciter is driving the electrolysis cell as Dr. Stiffler posted in the EEH configuration. I'm learning well.  ;D There is MUCH to do! My little one has her birthday party today so the MAD SCIENTIST, AKA DADDY, must relax a little bit. But I'll be up all night for sure.  ;D It does appear to be very very interesting indeed.  8)Measurements will be happening soon I hope. Maybe fire too........ 8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: myrmex on August 25, 2008, 12:57:32 AM
Hello everyone , i've read this thread in hope of recreating the effect of the SEC .

I have little knowledge of electricity and barely any equipment yet i tried and am now unsure about what i have done wrong .

I did Aether's schematic using jameco listed parts using 3 9volt barrety in series ( 24.2volt)

Now when i connect the sec and use my negative probe on the neon i receive 3.64 volt then -3.64 volt right after and it keep switching  sometimes it will drop to 3.49 volt in .1 increment then goes back to 3.64.

My question is what did i do or didn't do that make this happen ( the neon bulbs does not light at all either .)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: myrmex on August 25, 2008, 05:52:01 AM
Well after reviewing the schematic and fixing a couple problem i finally got my first hydrogen bubble i guess i should have checked twice before coming over here  ::)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 25, 2008, 08:10:02 PM
Hi Gang,

A couple videos that are all part of the story on how the SEC Flame might work........
(No I don't have a flame yet!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoqC2AZadYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AjtqGSjeL4

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 25, 2008, 08:31:12 PM
Ben   thanks wish I could hear it, Audio seems to be out  any one else have this prob ?
        Chet PS love the bubbles and current
       Also if you don't mind a 'still' of the schem [to fuzzy when I pause the vid
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: IsaSIO on August 25, 2008, 10:06:39 PM
Ben   thanks wish I could hear it, Audio seems to be out  any one else have this prob ?
        Chet PS love the bubbles and current
       Also if you don't mind a 'still' of the schem [to fuzzy when I pause the vid
All

the sound is clear for me on both vids. so Ben is this like the docs video of the three electrode cell? looks like you both are getting the same or close amount of gas? i tried stainless rods and a 2 farad car amp capacitor but did not get many bubbles. so you need carbon rods?

how do you charge those caps up so fast?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 25, 2008, 11:41:47 PM
Ben   thanks wish I could hear it, Audio seems to be out  any one else have this prob ?
        Chet PS love the bubbles and current
       Also if you don't mind a 'still' of the schem [to fuzzy when I pause the vid

Hi Chet,

Just listened to them a min ago.  Sound is OK on my computer.  I'll post the schematic HERE later tonight, leaving to go out to dinner, back about 11:00 EST and will try and get it up tonight.  Camera didn't focus quick enough on schematic.  It is a modification of the CRE single electrode device. 

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 26, 2008, 04:56:15 AM
All

the sound is clear for me on both vids. so Ben is this like the docs video of the three electrode cell? looks like you both are getting the same or close amount of gas? i tried stainless rods and a 2 farad car amp capacitor but did not get many bubbles. so you need carbon rods?

how do you charge those caps up so fast?

Hi Gang,

Here is schematic of the relay driven CRE Tetrode Cell.  It charges and discharges via 2 different paths all the time for maximum output.  I do NOT know if it is correct but it sure makes lots of small bubbles.

You must use carbon rods.

1F/1V/1Sec and you are not totally discharging them........depends on current in cell also.  Be sure and use saturated distilled water and salt solution.

I HIGHLY recommend reading the CRE paper on Dr. Stiffler's site. MOST IMPORTANT!

Relay/s are a 12VDC relay driven by a square wave generator wired as in the pictorial.  Size of wire, contacts, etc.   Electrode placement, water, salt, etc. all add up.

Ben

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 26, 2008, 05:41:15 AM
Hi Gang,

In my previous video CRE#2, I had about 4cm spacing .  In my new video, I show a Tetrode cell using 2 mm spacing.

Have not measured as to which has the most output but both work very well.

See:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT0lJ9Qhdec

Enjoy

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 27, 2008, 05:22:17 AM
Just an update, I have replicated the fluro tubes lighting and the incandescent bulbs lighting, a tad late to post 'me too' photos.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 27, 2008, 02:07:03 PM
Ben  I don't know what your making but your making a lot of it   I remember Doc saying take a cotton ball soak it and burn it[I believe he was reffering to the water after the one wire electro experiment} have you tried soaking up the foam and burning [or the water]? thanks for the vid and schem  and the info on the docs site [I thought it was closed]  Chet
PS in the docs one wire cell I think he felt mostly hydrogen was coming out and the water [pure distilled] was  oxygen saturated
I wonder if the reverse is possible? Luc might find that interesting
Aether yes pics [get the camera] Please
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 27, 2008, 02:31:19 PM
Just an update, I have replicated the fluro tubes lighting and the incandescent bulbs lighting, a tad late to post 'me too' photos.

Good for you, keep it up......you have just opened a window of learning......Never too late as a picture says a million words......

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on August 27, 2008, 02:39:49 PM
Ben  I don't know what your making but your making a lot of it   I remember Doc saying take a cotton ball soak it and burn it[I believe he was reffering to the water after the one wire electro experiment} have you tried soaking up the foam and burning [or the water]? thanks for the vid and schem  and the info on the docs site [I thought it was closed]  Chet
PS in the docs one wire cell I think he felt mostly hydrogen was coming out and the water [pure distilled] was  oxygen saturated
I wonder if the reverse is possible? Luc might find that interesting

Hi Chet,

Haven't tried to burn it, foam does produce yellowing in a flame  brought near it, hisses does not pop....Working on too many things right now.....Video's are to stimulate others and give them ideas!  Flame is just a byproduct or way to release energy.......and useful later perhaps..The circuit is simple, what is going on is NOT simple!...I cannot stress the importance of reading ALL that you can that is on Dr. Stiffler's site, there are so many clues and bits of information!!!!!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on August 27, 2008, 02:50:40 PM
@All,
I agree with BEN 110%. I'm studying my ass off and then trying to apply it in experiments. Dr. Stiffler has posted, I believe, most of the information necessary to understand what he is doing and thus what we are doing. WE have to figure out how it all goes together.  ;D I hope you folks have coffee makers. I know I need mine.  8)

Best regards,

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: myrmex on August 28, 2008, 07:56:45 AM
i notcied something interesting , using headphone connected to my computer i could "hear" the field in wich this seems to works.

Also noted that with nothing connected to the sec but power going trough there is no buzzing sound , but as soon as you plug a wire the buzzing sounds come back .

it seems the more you draw current from it be it neon or hydrolysis the stronger the field disruption gets and also the farther it affect my headphones.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 28, 2008, 08:41:37 PM
@All,

I've updated my website with some new photos and stories about some of my experiences with and observations about coil winding and carbon rods.

http://creatorguy.com

FYI, there is also a paper about Vector Potential by Rick Andersen that used to be missing from Dr. Stiffler's site, but is now available there (link at the bottom of the page:)

http://67.76.235.52/DrStiffler/avector.asp

Here's a photo of three coils that I wound and tested just to see how different diameters might affect operation. All three coils contain the same amount of wire, all three work, but my initial impression is that the smallest diameter coil with the most turns produces the strongest output.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on August 28, 2008, 10:14:29 PM
creator:

Nice website!  When I get back from work, I will look it over in more detail.  This should greatly aid in replication of this interesting device.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stephenafreter on August 29, 2008, 09:17:11 AM
@ creator:

Hi, very nice job creator ! Please could you try winding coils with normal electric wire, not magnet wire.

Because I just can't get my circuit to work, and the only difference I have with others it's my wire, that is solid core #24 wire, but with normal 'thick' insulating colored plastic.

My coils are same turns, diameter, but the circuit draws almost 3 amps ! Can't get it to work :( I think it's because of the coil not being in magnet wire, no?

Thanks in advance,
MDG
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: zaydana on August 29, 2008, 09:25:30 AM
stephenafreter:

You shouldn't get *that* much different from non-magnet-wire coils. It sounds more like a blown transistor to me. Are you sure your transistor is in the right way around and not blown?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stephenafreter on August 29, 2008, 02:53:42 PM
Hi,
I solved my problems :) My ameter not working :)
Now it's ok, I get my first glowing of the 230V neon bulb placed after the AV plug, from 16V and 9mA.
Let's go for a new adventure !

MDG
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 30, 2008, 04:20:58 AM
BEN @all   I know that this sec has much potential. I also know that it will make hydrogen. Currently to make 1  kg of hydrogen using existing tech it takes 80kwh and 2 litres of water The docs sec cell makes this look silly This is what I will be /am doing' HHO'  Chet PS I know there are losses in the production of HHO this just shows how amazing the docs sec really is
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on August 30, 2008, 04:41:52 AM
BEN @all   I know that this sec has much potential. I also know that it will make hydrogen. Currently to make 1  kg of hydrogen using existing tech it takes 80kwh and 2 litres of water The docs sec cell makes this look silly This is what I will be /am doing' HHO'  Chet PS I know there are losses in the production of HHO this just shows how amazing the docs sec really is
Hi @Chet,
Do you have any references for those numbers? And what do you think the SEC will ultimately be able to achieve?

I'm asking 'cause I generally tend to think "qualitatively" not "quantitatively" and if I have some numbers to think about where we're coming from and where we're headed, that'll help keep me motivated... :)

Thanks in advance!

-creator
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 30, 2008, 04:57:28 AM
Hi Creator this months design news www.designnews.com   August  "hitting the hydrogen highway'  Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: spinner on August 30, 2008, 11:25:10 AM
BEN @all   I know that this sec has much potential. I also know that it will make hydrogen. Currently to make 1  kg of hydrogen using existing tech it takes 80kwh and 2 litres of water  The docs sec cell makes this look silly  This is what I will be /am doing' HHO'  Chet PS I know there are losses in the production of HHO this just shows how amazing the docs sec really is

This is nonsense. Please, check facts wrt. HH/O "from water" production. (80 kwh for a 1kg of H2? A kg of H2 from 2l of water? LOL)

It would be fair if similar claims would be equipped with "this is IMO" notice. Otherwise, someone could take it as a fact...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on August 30, 2008, 05:49:16 PM
Spinner your such a friendly fellow  DESIGN NEWS [accelerating engineering innovation] 8-11-08  vol 63 page  52
QUOTE' At the White Plains  NY Shell  electrolyser Plant requires 80000 watt hrs and 2L of water to produce 1kg of hydrogen which equals 1 gal of gasoline in energy density END QUOTE
any more questions ?
Chet
 SPINNER OH YES I FORGOT YOUR ONE OF THE GUYS THAT THOUGHT THE DOCS SEC WORTHLESS AND COULDN"T RESIST TELLING HIM SO      BIG HUGS AND KISSES FOR YOU
SPINNER I SEE YOU LIKE TO LAUGH A LOT. WHEN IT COMES TO THESE THINGS , I DON"T FIND YOU VERY FUNNY
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on August 31, 2008, 01:07:22 AM
Very happy to see the Telos/Quadra/Whatever info up there again.

It is clearly related to Morton & Podkletnov.

As for the hydrogen thing, well if it were Tritium water then 2L would have about 1.2KG of heavy hydrogen.
But mostly lightwater would have only 400g of H in it. (ignoring electron mass and differences between proton and neutron mass)
The 1KG probably is the total weight of the gas released from 2KG of water meaning half is wasted somehow (unless they failed to account for boyancy)

So I hate to agree with Spinner as he is just a piece of slime IMO, in this case he is right.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: pcon33 on September 02, 2008, 11:18:09 AM
Hi  nubie here 

   spent  time reading through many of the past posts...wow lots of info...   on the sec...  i had some time today to wire up a protoboard with the thompson oscillator.... i used the circuit from creatorguys web page. Nice page and very informative....

also used the Avramenko's plug with the neon bulb.... (see attached pic) ...found some information on the plug here

http://keelynet.com/energy/frolov1.htm

took some tweaking to get it to oscillate and its still a bit touchie.... but i got it to work ok.... i thinnk part of the reason the circuit is touchie is i used a mje3439 npn  transistor instead of the recommended mpsa06.... the mje is a higher power part and likely has larger parasitic capacitance so could only get it up to  4.5mhz.... going to try to go higher when the mpsa06 parts show up.... ...Thinking on the Avramenko's plug circuit it reminds one of the fractionalization effect that tesla was said to have achieved with his mag biased spark gaps.... in teslas case the magnets performed the diode effect.... whereas the two diodes in the Avramenko's plug likely achieve the unidirectional pulse current associated with fractionalization effect....the neon is analogus to the spark gap only it flashes over at 80volts or so... the next thing tesla was having trouble with once he had extracted the either current from the electron current was that pure either current would sublime most solids i.e. gasify most substances... as you all know he finally ended up using carbon because it stood up to the either current better than most other elements....the other thing tesla did to purify the either stream was to pump nitrogen into the spark gap because it was a good electron absorber.... got most of this info reading the first chapter of "secrets of cold world technologies" so been doing this experiment because I thought it might verify some of the theory in the book.....  going to try the circuit again when i get the mpsa06s.....   i attached a pic of my breadboard circuit to this email but i couldnt get the preview feature to work so not sure if the pic made it to the board.....   anyway... great thread....

Best Regards

Ed....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on September 02, 2008, 06:16:45 PM
ED Thanks for sharing Dr Stiffler has been working several decades [maybe more]  on this sec and other related projects He has a VERY BIG!!!! problem with steering/comparing his findings into a TESLA thread .I don't know if he will return to this venue ?life is way to short to spend saying the same things over and over again .He is on to something VERY!! unique that  is a result of HIS hard work .I for one hope he can comment some time on how to steer the sec to do what his vid does [continuous burn hydrogen at AMAZING efficiency with cell remaining at ambient temps]
Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: newbie123 on September 02, 2008, 06:56:01 PM
Is there a schematic for a self running circuit somewhere?

No the is not a circuit posted anywhere, so get off the train.........

DrStiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on September 02, 2008, 08:14:41 PM
I see a lot of people have had success duplicating the SEC now. Good to see!
And the parts are fairly cheep and easy to get.
I think the next step is building maybe a dozen of them and connecting them together.
If one can produce hydrogen to run a flame or light 3 fluor. tubes what can a dozen do?
Will a dozen work in the same space without disrupting each other?
This will be a very interesting experiment.

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on September 02, 2008, 08:24:40 PM
Newbie sorry Dr Stiffler was chased away by some much more knowledgeable fellows. A HAM 807 member and some guys with big resumes That were telling us we were wasting our time [it was very funny also [at least to them]] I wish these very bright boy's could answer your questions or mine But thats not what they do Sorry newbie look at Stiffler Scientific  Chet

ramset

Need to get your facts correct. I was not chased of by any idiot, for sure not Mr. 807. Please do not add to the BS by making statements that are not true.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 03, 2008, 03:32:30 AM
@ Chet:

Yes, it is a shame, a damn shame.  I hope they are happy and laughing!  We have seen this on other topics and, quite frankly, I dislike the fact that the few can ruin it for so many.  Such is life.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: pcon33 on September 03, 2008, 12:06:59 PM
**Removed**

by Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on September 03, 2008, 05:18:02 PM
ED reading is very important [thanks Ben Jim others] the Doc is a cool guy , just has a lot to do ,and what he does here he does with his retirement funds  and  fellows come to the thread just jump in say something off topic and jump out  Stephan made Doc the moderator but thats a full time job
anyway until Stephan can figure out a way to fix this problem the Doc not in
here are a few posts after the fire 2347 2378 2384 2385
Ed read all you can at the Doc's site Stiffler Scientific [cre stuf]
                    there is also a pdf  The FIRE   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aanRgpfv144
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: newbie123 on September 03, 2008, 06:57:28 PM
**Removed**

Dr.S.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on September 03, 2008, 07:28:56 PM
NewB the DOC cares ,and he's the one with the answers. He was trying to teach this and it really bothered some guys kept coming on the thread and throwing sand in his eyes I guess they just lay in wait for him,
 Doing NOTHING to contribute and EVERYTHING to confuse /stop the advancement of the Dr's tech 
SO here we are, winter is approaching  a SAFE way to burn hydrogen with no thermal losses[in the cell] at VERY small input
 And schmucks lay in wait
           Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: newbie123 on September 03, 2008, 07:52:16 PM
**Removed**

Dr.S.



Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on September 03, 2008, 08:07:33 PM
NewB yes  Docs got thick skin a plenty [IN his Field] its the part about sharing with the Public [and looking a gift horse in the mouth] that seems to rile him [and who wouldn't be riled]
 The fact that he has left all this info here and at his site encourages me
I have a lot more studying to do!!
Winter is coming and at 4.70 per gallon Grandmas gonna be cold, real cold
Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: newbie123 on September 03, 2008, 09:04:12 PM
**Removed**

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on September 03, 2008, 10:28:23 PM
Simple truth is 'No more free lunches'

I am very, very selective now on whom I will share information with, in this way the work will get done and the answers will be found, without those that have no right to the work anyway. Gone is the BS of helping anyone as most do not have the sense to understand what they are being given.

Sorry if I offend the good among the 99.4% that are not, but its simple, fight the battle and get nothing done, of pull back and let the vain have there air time.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on September 04, 2008, 03:30:19 AM
DR Stiffler I see others here putting a lock on the thread and posting results as they please  Maybe this is an option ? I have been studying your CRE and find it Amazing !!!  please consider any options to the public  LOTS of folks watching this thread LOTS You never know where the breakthrough's will come from or who will be an asset ? The more in the pool the better
IMO Chet
PS sorry to imply you were chased off by the likes of a ham radio operator or other arrogant bastereds OBVIOUSLY not the case  EFFORT equals results not BS Thanks Dr Stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 04, 2008, 07:21:10 AM
@ Chet:

I could not agree more.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: aether22 on September 05, 2008, 02:37:43 AM
I will have photos of the stuff requested, but I have been both absorbed in other things and challenged by how to best do what I want to do with the SEC.

But on the subject of secrecy and such, I might point of this.

quote:

http://www.wavepartner.eu/page_1219330357093.html

Another Alternative
Energy Inventor Killed?
By Benjamin Fulford
9-3-8

A man by the name of Stefan Nystrom invented a way to generate
energy from ocean waves that he claims would cost 5% of what coal
energy does.

He set up a proto-type in Ghana and, initially, claims to have found
many potential investors. However, suddenly problems started to pop
up. The investors, originally extremely enthusiastic, started to
back off. He was offered bribes in order to quit. Finally, he began
to be harassed by Ghanaian police and mercenaries.

He contacted me in hopes of getting protection. I told him to come
to Japan. He told me he was not allowed to leave the country. He
said they had taken parts from his prototype. I said I would see
what I could do. Before I could do anything, yesterday I received a
disturbing set of phone calls from a very scared sounding Mr.
Nystrom. "They tried to kill me three times today," he screamed into
the phone. Then I lost contact with him, and his phone has been
switched off.

In his last call, he asked me to make his technology public. So,
here below is a description of his technology. Would people please
pass it on and would as many people, in a tribute to a man who has
probably been killed by mercenaries hired by the oil industry, and
make sure that prototypes are developed.

Benjamin Fulford

That kind of thing clarified my view of if it is worth sharing, the answer is to either share everything so that no matter what happens it is not list, or to share NOTHING so no one knows what you are doing until you share all.
I don't think half way makes sense, it is dangerious, just my opinion.

sorry to contribute an off topic post.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: vipond50 on September 19, 2008, 06:50:04 AM
Hello Group
Did Doc hang his on different site? Was hoping to pick up a couple boards form Doc, but it seems that all the links are dead.
Have read the thread and found it very intriguing. Actually have started working the basic CKT with some success, would really like  to
pickup a couple completed boards from doc.
Any help with this would awesome  ;D
Thanks and Cheers
Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on September 19, 2008, 07:31:14 PM
Hello Group
Did Doc hang his on different site? Was hoping to pick up a couple boards form Doc, but it seems that all the links are dead.
Have read the thread and found it very intriguing. Actually have started working the basic CKT with some success, would really like  to
pickup a couple completed boards from doc.
Any help with this would awesome  ;D
Thanks and Cheers
Bill

Hi All,

Last I heard from Dr. Stiffler was day before hurricane Ike hit the Houston, TX area.  He was taking his computers down, packing, etc and getting ready for it to hit.  Have not heard from him since.  Be patent, Galviston and Houston Tx were VERY hard hit with Ike and it is a mess down there......I suspect he has a lot more on his mind right now than the SEC and OU!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: vipond50 on September 19, 2008, 07:38:26 PM
Thanks Ben for the update and i'll be in stand by mode, tell the Doc get his affairs in order. Hope everything works out for him and he and his family are safe.
God Bless
Bill


Hi All,

Last I heard from Dr. Stiffler was day before hurricane Ike hit the Houston, TX area.  He was taking his computers down, packing, etc and getting ready for it to hit.  Have not heard from him since.  Be patent, Galviston and Houston Tx were VERY hard hit with Ike and it is a mess down there......I suspect he has a lot more on his mind right now than the SEC and OU!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 19, 2008, 08:37:26 PM
Wow, I forgot the Doc was in that area.  My prayers are with him and his family.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on September 23, 2008, 08:41:34 PM
@All

I am alive, well, but very tired. This is now day 11 without power, looks like another 4-5 days. We have water off and on, seems they are having trouble getting fuel like the rest of us.

Lab is 60% destroyed, yet my home made it with ~$5k of wood fence damage, solid new roof took it well and no structure or window damage.

Have to trek out each day to get generator fuel, we burn 8gal. every 13 hours for peak of 6kw and avg of 3kw, not cheap at all.

Have rigged net access twice now for a couple hours.

When back with power will get web site up first. May have to join thr 'Arm Chair' group. Not sure I can rebuild the lab, not that many years left on the old clock.

I do have all data, thank you SD cards and thumb drives.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 23, 2008, 08:50:33 PM
Dr. Stiffler:

Glad to hear you are ok.  Well maybe not ok but alive and well.  It could have been much worse I suppose.  I am confident you will bounce back in time, given a chance for things to get back to normal, whatever that is.  Very good to hear from you.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stephenafreter on September 23, 2008, 09:49:07 PM
Hi Doctor Stiffler,

I'm very happy to read that you came back well from this hard situation. I don't know what to say, but I'm glad that you are doing well!

Hope to see you success in your researches, and good chance to rebuild your lab.

Strange how you are close to easy 'free' energy but still God gives you more difficult challenges :( You must be a very good and strong person to get such test in that life.

Congratulations and hope your family is all well after this event.

MDG
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on September 23, 2008, 09:51:49 PM
This must be very depressing man, i wish you all the best of luck.
You should put your website on a virtual server host, so you use less power.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ahchoooo on September 24, 2008, 03:59:15 AM
Dr. Stiffler,

I am sorry to hear the situation that you are in. My best wishes for you and family. I do hope your clock will keep ticking for a long while yet, for humanity's sake. :)

James
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on September 24, 2008, 12:52:19 PM
@Dr. Stiffler and the folks in Texas and Louisiana,
Mother nature is a BITCH! I'm very sorry to hear about the lab sir but I am also VERY GLAD you and yours have survived. Funny now or maybe not so funny actually, that at the last moment Katrina and Ike turned to directly hit two major US cities. At least the NE part of the Storm was east of you. Sorry for the folks directly East of the area. Hang in there and God bless! You get to watch us get snow and ice shortly. I think a rough one is on the way. At least that is what the Farmers Almanac says............ ???
God Bless!

@All
So start building...everything you need to study is right here......this is far from over....... ;D
It's getting good............. ;) I'm trying ALL kinds of neat things. First you have to build an EXCITER! It's REALLY cool to be able to tune the beast with some type of precision.... 8) Like I'm saying...everything you need to copy this is RIGHT HERE! Start experimenting.  ;) R You waiting to buy one in Wal-Mart? I just sorted out 500 MPSA06's last night for HFE values. Here is a quick peek at a Yankee copy of DR. Stiffler's SEC EXCITER circuit. I did this by WORKING WITH IT! Bubbles....getting back to making bubbles.............LOTS OF WORK TO DO!  ;D YES! the NEON is REALLY HOT! But I'm not stopping there.

Best regards,

Jim

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on September 24, 2008, 08:06:34 PM
I have opened the latest research page on my web site for public access. It is about 6-8 weeks behind in the posted work, but enough to get many excited (I hope).

Take a look, this is a whole new ballgame and it is all driven by a SEC Exciter.

You will need to read between the lines and do a few calculations on your own as the final numbers are not up as yet, but they are indeed very, very good.

See; "Exciter Stimulated Energy Generation"

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: creator on September 24, 2008, 08:33:10 PM
Hi Doc!
I have opened the latest research page on my web site for public access. It is about 6-8 weeks behind in the posted work, but enough to get many excited (I hope).
Thank you, Doc, for your outstanding generosity! I suspect I speak for many when I say that your kindness in opening this up for us will not be forgotten! :)
-creator
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Loki67671 on September 24, 2008, 09:08:41 PM
INDEED!

 ;D

Jim
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on September 25, 2008, 02:33:06 AM
Hi Doc,
good to see you back alive and not hurt.

I have added your site to my menu block at the left side.
Let me know, if this is okay or if it will load
your site with too much traffic.

Sorry, did not have a chance to catch up yet with your circuits
and developments.

Will do soon.

Many thanks for all your hard work and hope the Hurrican
damage is not too big...


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on September 25, 2008, 03:27:13 PM
Dr Stiffler,

great to see you are back online. I figured the hurricane got too close when your web site disappeared. Thanks for opening up the new section - lots of exciting ideas to check out there.

Can I ask a question about the safety of LED's? Your web site has the following warning "DO NOT *EVER* LOOK AT THE SUPER WHITE LEDs OR THE NEONS CONNECTED AS LOADS WITHOUT OSHA APPROVED UV PROTECTION. A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF X-RAY CAN ALSO BE PRESENT AND PRESENTS AN EXTREME HAZARD."

Does this apply to LED's generally or only when they are powered by a SEC circuit? The reason I ask is that LED's appear to be the most efficient light source available (2-3watts producing the same light as say a 50watt incandesant bulb). Around the home it is tempting to take out the compact fluro's and replace them with LED compatible replacements. Your comments make me wonder if this is safe.

If you were to light your house with SEC circuit(s) and annoy those greedy power utilities would you opt for fluro's or LED's?








Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on September 25, 2008, 07:50:20 PM
Dr Stiffler,

great to see you are back online. I figured the hurricane got too close when your web site disappeared. Thanks for opening up the new section - lots of exciting ideas to check out there.

Can I ask a question about the safety of LED's? Your web site has the following warning "DO NOT *EVER* LOOK AT THE SUPER WHITE LEDs OR THE NEONS CONNECTED AS LOADS WITHOUT OSHA APPROVED UV PROTECTION. A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF X-RAY CAN ALSO BE PRESENT AND PRESENTS AN EXTREME HAZARD."

Does this apply to LED's generally or only when they are powered by a SEC circuit? The reason I ask is that LED's appear to be the most efficient light source available (2-3watts producing the same light as say a 50watt incandesant bulb). Around the home it is tempting to take out the compact fluro's and replace them with LED compatible replacements. Your comments make me wonder if this is safe.

If you were to light your house with SEC circuit(s) and annoy those greedy power utilities would you opt for fluro's or LED's?









@Lattice333
I may have to retract my statement about X-Rays and remove it from the site comments, although what does it hurt to be safe?? I do not feel at this time that x-rays are a problem...

A good net search on the topic of LED's will provide you with the information on why you should not look directly into White LED's when powered to their intended levels. In addition you will find that LED's are not what you think in terms of 'Most Efficient', to the best of my current knowledge, this is not so. Your search and reading will offer backup for my belief. I would find the links for you but I know that it should only take a few minutes to get the info.

No, the danger is not caused by the SEC Exciter, it is the White LED itself.

There are far better ways to us a SEC Exciter than the driving of LED's.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on September 25, 2008, 07:53:54 PM
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Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
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Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nickle989 on September 26, 2008, 10:00:17 PM
@ Dr. Stiffler .. check your email.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
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Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 05, 2008, 09:38:39 PM
@All

Is this going to be a science thread (SEC and ESEG) or the atypical "Bull Shit", you make up your minds.

"Professor" stay on your own thread, you got groupies, wow what more do you want. 'Oh, Yes, Prof. SUE ME!" what a total jerk.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: turbo on October 05, 2008, 10:04:04 PM
Apparently this is going to be a bullshit thread since your last post doesn't seem to hold any scientific information.

By the way, this has always been a bullshit thread.

Marco.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on October 05, 2008, 11:54:08 PM
Hi All,
I see that the DOC has deleted many messages
and some complained to me.

Please All,
come back to pure scientific discussion about this SEC energy
and please don´t fight over here.
Please discuss your personal problems via email only.

Many thanks for your understanding.


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: newbie123 on October 19, 2008, 05:42:50 PM
How is the SEC research coming along?  Anything new?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: spinner on October 19, 2008, 08:28:22 PM
How is the SEC research coming along?  Anything new?

Yes, I'd like to know too what happened with the "Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from dr. Stiffler", too... Ah, good old "single-wire" OU concepts....

Maybe he's busy with the "Super-efficient Electrolysis" right now?
He said he'll post findings on his own page....

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: rha8b on October 21, 2008, 08:54:03 AM
See the other post; http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5740.msg133402#msg133402
regrads,
-rha8b
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on October 21, 2008, 02:31:57 PM
rh8b Thank you!!     Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on October 25, 2008, 10:14:09 PM
@ALL

I am now able to "PROVE" that a SEC Exciter is a "Negative Resistance" in operation.

The results or how it is done is not posted here, see my website drstiffler (dot) com.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on October 26, 2008, 04:57:05 AM
 Your new website says "Circuits Boards being printed 'Now' "
Will I be able to purchase a board?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 26, 2008, 01:46:54 PM
Hi!

I am here to learn!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 29, 2008, 03:00:27 PM
Hi!

It seems that I got here late, there is no movement.
I would like to get one of Dr stiffler's board. Anyone selling?

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on October 29, 2008, 05:23:34 PM
Super efficient electrolysis similar to patent US 20060086603A1 ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on October 30, 2008, 12:48:25 AM
Hi Doc, I certainly am enjoying the progress you are making.

Attached are picture of a breadboard circuit copy which (without the benefit of a spectrum analyser) I can only presume is running in UBO mode. I can pull out the base-collector bias resistor once oscillation has started (see pictures). Also the capacitor is "hot" with RF as you say.

Yes an empty capacitor is a much better receiver than a full one.

Please find a way for everyone to discern if in UBO mode without a spectrum analyser which most will not have.

As to what's under the card? :)  My guess is at least a diode or inductor.

I no longer have an email address for you. You have mine - please email again. I think I found a website of interest to you.

Enjoy the photos.

Lattice333
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on October 30, 2008, 12:54:20 AM
Lattice you have been busy  ;D
Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 30, 2008, 02:25:14 AM
Hi!

@lattice
Can you explain what you did and post a schematic?

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Lattice333 on October 30, 2008, 01:43:44 PM
@Chet - Yes have been busy!

@nievesoliveras - Dr Stiffler has already got circuit diagrams on his web site. http://67.76.235.52/
Read his web site, compare to my photos. Pictures speak a thousand words.

The last photos I posted were too big - I have reduced the size and reposted here.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 30, 2008, 09:25:33 PM
Hi!

@lattice
Thank you for the link.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on October 31, 2008, 12:53:13 PM
@ALL

I am now able to "PROVE" that a SEC Exciter is a "Negative Resistance" in operation.

The results or how it is done is not posted here, see my website drstiffler (dot) com.

Dr.S.

On your website, you mention an article about an UWO created with a neg. resistor,
a certain length coaxial and a diode.

At least from the abstract - I wouldn´t derive the reverse situation that an UWO phenomenon
with a diode involved indicates a negative resistance....

What I see is an oscillator with a complex, non-linear feedback which includes somehow
a delay (intrinsic diode charge) and a near field EM coupling as outer fb loop.

Maybe this "feels" like a (differential) negative resistor - otherwise - there are no "single" pieces in
that circuit - everything is parasitary coupled.

The "negative resistor" mentioned in the article is per se no OU device (just to clarify).

It´s even possible to call every active part of an oscillator a negative resistor .....

In the normal run you use it just for oscillators driven by Gun or IMPATT diodes -
which have indeed a (differential) negative resistance of operated (powered) at certain
dc operating point. (Think thats what they use in this article)

Maybe I didn´t get the point....


rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on October 31, 2008, 02:46:06 PM
@fritz
To me, his last video shows proof of OU: energy in cap exceeds power delivered over time.
But where does it come from?
(coupling to the) earth, free ions, 'junk' EM waves (white noise, radio), space radiation?
Stiffler, what is your view on this?

thanks!

(I guess your website explains it, gonna give it a read)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: professor on October 31, 2008, 08:30:31 PM
On your website, you mention an article about an UWO created with a neg. resistor,
a certain length coaxial and a diode.

At least from the abstract - I wouldn´t derive the reverse situation that an UWO phenomenon
with a diode involved indicates a negative resistance....

What I see is an oscillator with a complex, non-linear feedback which includes somehow
a delay (intrinsic diode charge) and a near field EM coupling as outer fb loop.

Maybe this "feels" like a (differential) negative resistor - otherwise - there are no "single" pieces in
that circuit - everything is parasitary coupled.

The "negative resistor" mentioned in the article is per se no OU device (just to clarify).

It´s even possible to call every active part of an oscillator a negative resistor .....

In the normal run you use it just for oscillators driven by Gun or IMPATT diodes -
which have indeed a (differential) negative resistance of operated (powered) at certain
dc operating point. (Think thats what they use in this article)

Maybe I didn´t get the point....


rgds.

@fritz
That is exactly the way I see it also, but for reasons of being attacked for my views I will not get into Details.
I have played around with Tunnel Diodes in the 60's.
Here is a little abstract: 
Under normal forward bias operation, as voltage begins to increase, electrons at first tunnel travel through the very narrow p-n junction barrier because filled electron states in the conduction band on the n-side become aligned with empty valence band hole states on the p-side of the pn junction. As voltage increases further these states become more misaligned and the current drops — this is called negative resistance, because current decreases with increasing voltage. As voltage increases yet further, the diode begins to operate as a normal diode, where electrons travel by conduction across the pn junction, and no longer by tunneling through the pn junction barrier. Thus the most important operating region for a tunnel diode is the negative resistance region.
I never got the Point
professor
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 31, 2008, 08:37:56 PM
Hi!

@professor
How can I get one of those SEC exciters you use to perform the experiments on your site?

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: professor on November 05, 2008, 12:29:57 AM
Hi!

@professor
How can I get one of those SEC exciters you use to perform the experiments on your site?

Jesus

Hi Jesus,
Sorry I do not sell anything , unlike Stiffler ,I experiment using off shelf and old stock Parts.
However I do not believe in all the claims,neither is there an explanation of its fame.
It also is not as claimed selfrunning so what is the Point?
If you are into selling Boards ...............!
So if you are one of the believers in Stifflers magic Boards and you want to pay good money, you need to go to his
Website which you will find a few posts back.
professor
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 05, 2008, 12:50:07 AM
Hi!

@professor
I thought that you were Dr Stiffler.
I have gone to the links to his site on back post to no avail. It says no such site exists.
But thanks for the information.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 05, 2008, 01:04:18 AM
Hi!

@drstiffler

How can I get one of those SEC exciters you use to perform the experiments on your site?
Could you give me a valid link?

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Mayan on November 07, 2008, 06:38:33 AM
Just a quick idea: what if this is the case ? The metal objects can be metal balls, insulated from ground, or two metal can (canned peach, etc.) on insulators. The circuit is just an exciter to pump the aether through the load. Most free energy inventions comprise of two aetheric pole, a mean to pump, and a load. Sorry for my bad english, i am from hungary.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 15, 2008, 09:49:11 AM
Thanks to Dr. Stiffler,

He has revised his web site. Please try to read em all..

http://www.drstiffler.com

Nuri Temurlenk

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 15, 2008, 01:45:21 PM
Hi Jesus,
Sorry I do not sell anything , unlike Stiffler ,I experiment using off shelf and old stock Parts.
However I do not believe in all the claims,neither is there an explanation of its fame.
It also is not as claimed selfrunning so what is the Point?
If you are into selling Boards ...............!
So if you are one of the believers in Stifflers magic Boards and you want to pay good money, you need to go to his
Website which you will find a few posts back.
professor

This thread is self running :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 15, 2008, 02:42:02 PM
This thread is self running :P

Dear Dean,

   Please try to understand how reactive power or higher level harmonics can be converted into useful electrons in cap by means of Avramenko plug or whatsoever...

   Try to understand how Dr Stiffler is helping many people who is trying to replicate. His methods and know how exceeds many people around the globe.

   I know he sometimes uses different terminology in explaining reactive power and harmonics. Hector tells me that electrons in cap produced via Casimir Effect. Yes, it may be... But "Spatial energy" term is not correct. No scientific.

    Dean, please use scientific terminology by all means.

    Thanks and best regards to you and all collegues here.

     Nuri Temurlenk
     Istanbul, Turkey
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 15, 2008, 04:49:10 PM
DrStiffler is getting overunity after a few minutes now charging up his
3Farad cap with his new ultrawideband oscillator together with his Avramenko plug.

Have a look at the latest great video from him.

He  now has a great measurement system up there
with his spectrum analysator.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MRH2O2&view=videos

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 15, 2008, 06:00:05 PM
@all
I had been having problems connecting to the forum, but the thing that was interfering just banished.

Thanks to everybody that in one way or another has helped me on this site.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 18, 2008, 09:42:50 PM
@ALL

I have posted a circuit from one of the early ESEC circuits on my web site. This circuit weird as it may look was one of the first designs to show an energy gain in excess of the margin of error.

Anyone that does not have good test equipment and can not build it as shown, should not attempt it. If its not done correctly it will not work, simple as that.

I see in reading in this thread that someone thinks that reactive power is the answer and that the SEC Theory is incorrect, please explain how you envision this with my Exciters???

I have not returned here to play the game again, any qualified individual, here is something to work from that will be sufficient to prove the point.

Be fully aware that ESEC version #4 units are performing at 4x to 6x.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 18, 2008, 11:40:09 PM
@ALL
I see in reading in this thread that someone thinks that reactive power is the answer and that the SEC Theory is incorrect, please explain how you envision this with my Exciters???
Dr.S.

I think the scientific approach to this discussion would be to quantify the influence
of reactive power.
Due to the fact that the SEC Theory is an addon an not a replacement of traditional EE,
the observed results are influenced by  the SEC Theory _AND_ reactive power.

The quantification of reactive influence in "real world" might be very difficult to do because of the
highly complex load (from ground point of view) - an UWO has to offer.

A workaround for this problem could be a setup with an exciter in a faraday cage - placed
in the middle of nowhere using local ground.

The difference between the values in this setup - and in the "real world" setup
would give the chance to quantify both factors.

Thats good science.

This is no offend to your work and the SEC theory - but a plea for science,
experimenting, against black and white tinkering.

If it comes to 8.4V NimH accumulators discharged down to 2Volts - well....
thats astrology for me. From my experiments with "broken" accumulators
loaded with active, resonant circuits, well, everyone is invited to play around.



rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 19, 2008, 10:01:10 AM

I see in reading in this thread that someone thinks that reactive power is the answer and that the SEC Theory is incorrect, please explain how you envision this with my Exciters???

I have not returned here to play the game again, any qualified individual, here is something to work from that will be sufficient to prove the point.

Be fully aware that ESEC version #4 units are performing at 4x to 6x.

Dr.S.

Dear Doctor,

  Thanks for your kind reply on my suggestion. I admire your patience on us.

  My suggestion is to try to connect SEC theory with existing resonance, reactive power and harmonics theories. You have made thousands of experiments and you know nature of the system. Everybody should respect you and try to understand how you will change the world..

  Please send us #4 ESEC video and please mention your measurement method?

  We have professors on board and we are still trying to understand nature of SEC system.

  Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey
  www.erelgroup.com.tr
   

 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ashtweth_nihilisti on November 19, 2008, 01:20:13 PM
Wholly crap what a nice thread.

Guys its simple, if you can extract reactive power,  this and the Roto Verter are an off the shelf Free energy device, Eric dollard has done it according to Peter lindermann, through a complex RLC net work, under his 4 quadrant theories, (proprietary) Apprently he was able to extract 95% of the VARS.If any one knows where Eric dollard is please alert him to this thread am sure he would be interested.

Keep going!!!


Ash
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 19, 2008, 01:39:45 PM
*deleted*
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: samedsoft on November 19, 2008, 01:41:12 PM
Dear Doctor,

   I have just compared this circuit http://67.76.235.52/images/esec20_38.jpg
   this one, http://67.76.235.52/images/sec15_20.gif
   and this one http://67.76.235.52/images/secdubl1.gif

   I guess next step is to combine Gen 2 ?? Like below picture ??
 
   Thanks and Best Regards,
   Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey

PS1: Dr. You can delete this post if it violates your rights as you mentioned on www.drstiffler.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PS2 :  Transverse & Longitudinal Electric Waves may help on explaining how ESEC operates.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on November 19, 2008, 01:59:26 PM
keep your alans on! Reactance can not account for excess power!! Its should only be viewed as a POSSIBLE stimulus, is all I was saying in earlier posts!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 19, 2008, 02:52:01 PM
keep your alans on! Reactance can not account for excess power!! Its should only be viewed as a POSSIBLE stimulus, is all I was saying in earlier posts!

I thought "reactive power" references parasitic E/M/EM coupling/harvesting from ambient potential vs.
system/coupled system ground(s) by the REACTANCE of the circuit to these potentials.

This influence is driven from various mains devices draining their common mode noisepower into
system grounds, asymmetrical loaded 3phase lines shifting neutral, coupling on power lines ... and so on.

see postings/pictures/avi´s from posting 178ff of this thread.

If you cannot shield this influences - there would be some contribution to the final result - which
would give a false figure of the excess power - would add to excess power - or even reduce it.

rgds.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on November 19, 2008, 03:47:12 PM
sorry, reactive power. Now we are getting enraged and confused. Yes, the problem enrages and confuses me.... but it shouldn't because reactive power is free.. but I guess that's what makes me enraged and confused... Sorry... I'm off to sob all over the EE books my university charges me so much for >:(
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 19, 2008, 04:32:29 PM
sorry, reactive power. Now we are getting enraged and confused. Yes, the problem enrages and confuses me.... but it shouldn't because reactive power is free.. but I guess that's what makes me enraged and confused... Sorry... I'm off to sob all over the EE books my university charges me so much for >:(

Ok, lets lay it down precisly:

Reactive power [VAr] in theory is "for free". In practice there is always current and real world
resistance involved - so reactive power never comes "alone". In real world you use power
plants and facilities to maintain/compensate reactive power in the grid to keep losses at minimum.
So the statement "for free" depends on the reference frame.

For example:
Imagine a room sized capacitor (we ignore now the wavelength and EM) connected to mains.
This cap would draw a dominant reactive power (we assume lossless cap here).
If I enter the room - and place a conductive/resistive table in the middle - we have a lossy cap,
the table "connects" places of different field strength/potential, there is current in the table construction, losses.
The capacity of the room-cap will be reduced, reactive power will decrease, real power consumption will increase.

What I meant in the sense of using the terminus "reactive power" is to change a local impedance
scenario with dominating reactive power in a way which gives the possibility to harvest real power.

Just if you have e/m/em fields in ideal configurations, just driven by reactive power - you can harvest
real power by introducing losses in that field.

This losses contribute to the real power component of the entire system.

In real world - those losses happen almost everwhere - by "matching" the local impedance you just make
your matching part the dominant "consumer".

Hope this helps with the confusion.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on November 19, 2008, 04:56:52 PM
Well lets relate this to a broadband oscillator. No load, and you have reactive power (with a certain amount of real power consumed...real life and all). Add an antenna and power starts getting pumped out and you should see this as a current draw at the source. Now add an AV plug to the antenna and suddenly the oscillator goes back to reactive power mode yet somehow the cap in the AV plug gets charged up, WITHOUT A CURRENT DRAW AT THE SOURCE.
This needs to be tested with a battery as the source in a REMOTE location. Then bring on the outlandish explanations.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 19, 2008, 05:47:53 PM
Well lets relate this to a broadband oscillator. No load, and you have reactive power (with a certain amount of real power consumed...real life and all). Add an antenna and power starts getting pumped out and you should see this as a current draw at the source. Now add an AV plug to the antenna and suddenly the oscillator goes back to reactive power mode yet somehow the cap in the AV plug gets charged up, WITHOUT A CURRENT DRAW AT THE SOURCE.
This needs to be tested with a battery as the source in a REMOTE location. Then bring on the outlandish explanations.
@scraven

**This needs to be tested with a battery as the source in a REMOTE location. Then bring on the outlandish explanations.**

Remote location testing has been carried out by a number of people, in fact another poster to this thread just completed such a test with a SEC Exciter (15-3) design, although not charging caps as such the output was a capacitor for all practical purposes. This person has now removed from his mind the ridicules comments by others that my exciters are operating off of localized RF or power lines.

The problem with comments similar to what 'fritz' has made is that in order to satisfy his statement, remote testing would not be sufficient, you would have to leave earth and maintain free space around the circuit. What would be the next rebuttal is that energy was being supplied by (what the lattice or the aether), humm..........

What happened to the fact that I have indeed run without effect exciters in Faraday Cages, but LOL none of the detractors could agree on if the cage was required to be grounded or not grounded. In fact I left one posting group that has a moderator that stated; "Stiffler is incompetent to make valid RF measurements, because I am", gee now if that isn't an admission none is.

Ignore what you must and work it out yourself in mind and circuit. A SEC Exciter is such a simple circuit to build there is no reason or cause for all the mind games that have and will continue to go on and on and on. It's not my saying but it is appropriate; "We believe what we already know". Very, very correct and hard to change.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on November 19, 2008, 06:11:46 PM
LOL - BLAST SEC INTO OUTER SPACE!!!! Bottom line is we all want to know where this power is coming from and the longer it takes to figure it out, the more frustrated and insecure us kids who where bought up suckling on the teat of Newton, become.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on November 19, 2008, 07:18:16 PM
What happened to the fact that I have indeed run without effect exciters in Faraday Cages, but LOL none of the detractors could agree on if the cage was required to be grounded or not grounded. In fact I left one posting group that has a moderator that stated; "Stiffler is incompetent to make valid RF measurements, because I am", gee now if that isn't an admission none is.

A floating setup in an absorber hall would be interesting, maybe I said Faraday cage at a certain point -
this could be a 10m times 10m times 10m metal frame-cube - which in fact doesnt shield EM nor M fields
to a certain degree.
Free floating _not_ grounded is the better choice.

I see some problems if operated in space because of the charged particles, lol
Earth has nice shielding - ground might be a challenge  ;D
Using solar ground, Mars ground, or maybe a flower-pot with original earth ground
is enough. lol.

rgds.







Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 19, 2008, 08:02:46 PM
Hey Doc,

Have you "Closed the Loop" yet ?

Lots of good science in this thread, way above my head and entertaining to boot !

Keep on keeping on ;)

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 19, 2008, 08:06:21 PM
Ok, lets lay it down precisly:

Reactive power [VAr] in theory is "for free". In practice there is always current and real world
resistance involved - so reactive power never comes "alone". In real world you use power
plants and facilities to maintain/compensate reactive power in the grid to keep losses at minimum.
So the statement "for free" depends on the reference frame.

For example:
Imagine a room sized capacitor (we ignore now the wavelength and EM) connected to mains.
This cap would draw a dominant reactive power (we assume lossless cap here).
If I enter the room - and place a conductive/resistive table in the middle - we have a lossy cap,
the table "connects" places of different field strength/potential, there is current in the table construction, losses.
The capacity of the room-cap will be reduced, reactive power will decrease, real power consumption will increase.

What I meant in the sense of using the terminus "reactive power" is to change a local impedance
scenario with dominating reactive power in a way which gives the possibility to harvest real power.

Just if you have e/m/em fields in ideal configurations, just driven by reactive power - you can harvest
real power by introducing losses in that field.

This losses contribute to the real power component of the entire system.

In real world - those losses happen almost everwhere - by "matching" the local impedance you just make
your matching part the dominant "consumer".

Hope this helps with the confusion.


Nope,

Still confused, I am thinking it took energy to create the original displacement, since I don't believe man made objects are in the habit of manifesting themselves spontaneously.

I agree though that if you dig a whole, something will fill it ;)

Cheers,

Dean
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on November 20, 2008, 02:36:42 PM
@Dean

Power in an LC system like the one in the broadband oscillator is a phasor summing on the power measured at L and the power measured at C. If there is no load then the C(cap) will be out of phase with the L(inductor) and hence they cancel each other out. What you get now in measurable terms (the spectrum analysis) is a near field signal, but seeing as the power is reactive and the current is more or less canceled out the circuit only radiates in the near field (electrostatic field or electric field but NOT a magnetic field). Add an antenna with a load and depending on how much current the load consumes thats how much power the circuit will radiate (and thats the reason NASA probably wouldn't let a SEC anywhere near any kind of aircraft let alone a spacecraft for testing in space *looks at fritz and shrugs). Anyway... the point of the bafflements thus far is that this near field signal seems to drop off as the AV plug is charging a cap. So that would mean that the AV plug somehow converts POTENTIAL oscillations minus Current oscillations. In other words we are getting REAL power in the AV plug, when the only power consumed seems to be IMAGINARY POWER. Sooo if the AV plug ONLY needs to rectify voltage oscillations (or at least that's all that's being supplied to it by the SEC) yet produces a current as well in the rectification, a lot of us a concerned about where that current is coming from! Dont forget, an av plug can rectify magnetic waves as well (like a radio does) and this poses a problem for accurate measurements, because if it turns out the the AV plug IS rectifying magnetic waves  as well then the power consumed is REAL. This (right now) does not seem to be the case and is why Dr.Stiffler is probably pretty exited himself right now, mostly due to the fact (i'd guess) that the near field spectrum signals seem to vanish while the AV plug is charging the cap. Combine this with the fact that the the oscillator STILL consumes very little amps, then we would be led to assume  that the AV plug is consuming purely imaginary power... NOT ONLY THIS... at some point in time the power in the AV CAP surpasses any power consumed by the oscillator that is being lost to imperfect (real world) components. And this is where the mystery begins..

Apologies in advance for jibberjabber minus practical results... I will shut up now

***correction - not sure if the nearfield drops off at all (I'm not sure where I got that from) Either way this would point more in the direction of excitation by reactive broadband oscillations rather then the indigestible idea of imaginary power converted to real power. Excitation of what exactly? The aether or the lattice does not mean anything to me - but thats my problem...

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 20, 2008, 03:57:11 PM
@Dean

Power in an LC system like the one in the broadband oscillator is a phasor summing on the power measured at L and the power measured at C. If there is no load then the C(cap) will be out of phase with the L(inductor) and hence they cancel each other out. What you get now in measurable terms (the spectrum analysis) is a near field signal, but seeing as the power is reactive and the current is more or less canceled out the circuit only radiates in the near field (electrostatic field or electric field but NOT a magnetic field). Add an antenna with a load and depending on how much current the load consumes thats how much power the circuit will radiate (and thats the reason NASA probably wouldn't let a SEC anywhere near any kind of aircraft let alone a spacecraft for testing in space *looks at fritz and shrugs). Anyway... the point of the bafflements thus far is that this near field signal seems to drop off as the AV plug is charging a cap. So that would mean that the AV plug somehow converts POTENTIAL oscillations minus Current oscillations. In other words we are getting REAL power in the AV plug, when the only power consumed seems to be IMAGINARY POWER. Sooo if the AV plug ONLY needs to rectify voltage oscillations (or at least that's all that's being supplied to it by the SEC) yet produces a current as well in the rectification, a lot of us a concerned about where that current is coming from! Dont forget, an av plug can rectify magnetic waves as well (like a radio does) and this poses a problem for accurate measurements, because if it turns out the the AV plug IS rectifying magnetic waves  as well then the power consumed is REAL. This (right now) does not seem to be the case and is why Dr.Stiffler is probably pretty exited himself right now, mostly due to the fact (i'd guess) that the near field spectrum signals seem to vanish while the AV plug is charging the cap. Combine this with the fact that the the oscillator STILL consumes very little amps, then we would be led to assume  that the AV plug is consuming purely imaginary power... NOT ONLY THIS... at some point in time the power in the AV CAP surpasses any power consumed by the oscillator that is being lost to imperfect (real world) components. And this is where the mystery begins..

Apologies in advance for jibberjabber minus practical results... I will shut up now

***correction - not sure if the nearfield drops off at all (I'm not sure where I got that from) Either way this would point more in the direction of excitation by reactive broadband oscillations rather then the indigestible idea of imaginary power converted to real power. Excitation of what exactly? The aether or the lattice does not mean anything to me - but thats my problem...



Not unlike a tuned LC tank ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dean_mcgowan on November 20, 2008, 04:02:02 PM
Not unlike a tuned LC tank ?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LC_circuit
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 20, 2008, 06:02:37 PM
@drstiffler

I will need to reread this whole topic to learn what I want. I will do my best effort to get the knowledge to accomplish my goal. Which is:
To run a motor with an 1.5v or 9v battery and recharge it while it is running the motor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 20, 2008, 09:25:43 PM
A new video of the new software that controls the measurement protocols.

The video shows an ESEC(1) going OU well past the margin of error. Test stopped at 180%.

ESEC(1)'s go to 200% without problem.

Dr.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd4h6oVtGj4

ESEC Naming:

ESEC(1) OU>1<3
ESEC(2) => ESEC(3) OU>2<4
ESEC(6) OU =>6
ESEC(10) OU > 10

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Magnethos on December 20, 2008, 10:05:15 PM
I have a simple question...
When we use too much hot/common electricity, the device (a fan in example) heats up too much and it burns. If we use cold electricity... the fan will burn also or not?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 20, 2008, 10:20:32 PM
I have a simple question...
When we use too m
uch hot/common electricity, the device (a fan in example) heats up too much and it burns. If we use cold electricity... the fan will burn also or not?

@Magnethos

Let me try to explain what I know and do not know.

Lets assume you have a fan that draws 100mA @ 6V without marginal heating (from say a battery).

Connect this fan in series with an ESEC (in series with the capacitor charging leg) and it will not raise in temp even if it passes 3 to 4 times its rated current. Now if we have charged our ESEC cap to say 6v and connect the fan across the cap it will display its characteristic marginal heating as when connected to a battery. Cold Electricity as manifested in the charging of an ESEC cap is totally different than when the SEC Exciter is disconnected and a load is connected across the cap.

Clear as MUD right?

Dr.S.

BTW. Gone until 1/10/09
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Magnethos on December 20, 2008, 10:38:36 PM
Thank you very much, clear explanation.
Happy Christmas Dr.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on January 12, 2009, 01:28:48 AM
A new video of the new software that controls the measurement protocols.

The video shows an ESEC(1) going OU well past the margin of error. Test stopped at 180%.

ESEC(1)'s go to 200% without problem.

Dr.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd4h6oVtGj4

ESEC Naming:

ESEC(1) OU>1<3
ESEC(2) => ESEC(3) OU>2<4
ESEC(6) OU =>6
ESEC(10) OU > 10



I have some recent experience with these large "supercapacitors". You can not assume that the capacitance is constant under dynamic conditions. The capacitors must be characterized to determine their real performance under the conditions you are using. When you do this you see that a simple model approximation is that of two capacitors -- one with a fast response and one with a very long response time. In the time frame of the measurements shown the real capacitance will be considerably lower than the claimed 3 F.

I have observed leakage current of 1ma @16V in very similar capacitors. If you take this into account and let the capacitor stand for 15 min or so after it has been disconnected from the experiment you can get a far more accurate estimate of the power accumulated.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 12, 2009, 04:25:31 PM
What about building 2 ESECs and let them charge each other,
so no power supply is needed ?

This should be easily to demonstrate with a few Relays which toggle
back and forth.

This way a selfrunning system should be doable without the need of a power
supply or any other input power system.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kator01 on January 12, 2009, 07:44:11 PM
Hello MarkSnoswell,

very good point. It is definitely my experience when I was using 33 000 My Farad with  fast puls-charge-proccess. It is much more difficult with supercaps since part of the energy-inflow is consumed up in dielectric-polarisation of the vast surface of the supercap. This feature was explained in one of the papers way back in 2000 when I bought the first supercap for some experiments.
This very property is also responsible for a seemingly faster charge-up-behaviour shortly after a discharge because this dielectric-conditioning-energy is released time-delayed.

@all :

can someone help me with a supplier of this MPSA06-Transistor.I bought 100 of them here in munich from a professional supplier. There is not one piece which has a hfe > 130. They are very well produced and hfe varies in the range of 120 to 130 only. Too good to be true.

Second question is this : I have two digi-meters and each measures a different hfe-value. e.g. one shows hfe 100 the other hfe 120 for the same transistor.

Is there a standard-method of this hfe-measurement ? I do not trust these meters after this experience.

best Regards

Kator01



.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 12, 2009, 09:02:15 PM
I have some recent experience with these large "supercapacitors". You can not assume that the capacitance is constant under dynamic conditions. The capacitors must be characterized to determine their real performance under the conditions you are using. When you do this you see that a simple model approximation is that of two capacitors -- one with a fast response and one with a very long response time. In the time frame of the measurements shown the real capacitance will be considerably lower than the claimed 3 F.

I have observed leakage current of 1ma @16V in very similar capacitors. If you take this into account and let the capacitor stand for 15 min or so after it has been disconnected from the experiment you can get a far more accurate estimate of the power accumulated.

Hi Mark,
so you think this 3 Farad cap could have something like a "surface charge",
which is not a real charge, so the accumulated energy is not the real Joule value ?

Do you have a link to a paper describing this effect ?

Would it be better to use then only a stack of parallel foil capacitors or what capacitors would be best ?

I guess the final solution would be to see, if 2 ESECs could be switched back and
forth and keep on running and charging up each other and drop in voltage.
If this will result in a selfrunning system, the final proof will be done.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on January 12, 2009, 09:12:41 PM
@Kator1

MPSA06 is available from West Florida Components on eBay http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/westfloridacomponents_W0QQ_nkwZQQ_armrsZ1QQ_fromZQQ_mdoZ

Do you have a link for that paper on the supercaps?


@hartiberlin and all

You can use the supercaps but you just have to take account of their particular characteristics when doing efficiency calculations.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 12, 2009, 09:28:01 PM
@All

I do not dispute the accurate description of what can happen with supercaps, but I will say that the charge when properly applied by an ESEC will remain on the test caps for over 24hrs with only a minimal 0.5 to 1 volt drop, which still reflects a CEC far in excess of 1. If I had a cap with 1ma leakage I would be looking for my money back!.

To stop this before it goes to far, the charge on the caps are dumped (cycle discharged) into an electronic load (monitored via computer) and what is presented is accurate.

@Stephan

Be careful of what you wish.........
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 12, 2009, 09:38:01 PM
@All

I do not dispute the accurate description of what can happen with supercaps, but I will say that the charge when properly applied by an ESEC will remain on the test caps for over 24hrs with only a minimal 0.5 to 1 volt drop, which still reflects a CEC far in excess of 1. If I had a cap with 1ma leakage I would be looking for my money back!.

To stop this before it goes to far, the charge on the caps are dumped (cycle discharged) into an electronic load (monitored via computer) and what is presented is accurate.

Well sounds good, so your charge is real and not just some kind of surface charge...
With all your great test equipment you would have probably anyway detected this already, if the
discharge pulse into the nicad wire or load resistors wouldhave been smaller..


Quote
@Stephan

Be careful of what you wish.........

I hope you can accomplish this soon !  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on January 12, 2009, 09:39:02 PM
@Kator01

 Not to worry -- I have found the references to the capacitors -- just needed to search with the right terms -- Electrochemical Supercapacitor.  I note from this paper that the capacitance could easily be less than 10% of the rated DC value in the MHz range. http://www.imeko.org/publications/tc4-2007/IMEKO-TC4-2007-009.pdf

This paper concludes:

"The phenomenon of capacitance dependence on measurement current values is explained by a
complicated physical and chemical nature of the electrochemical supercapacitor charge storage. The
non-linear equivalent capacitance of the electrochemical supercapacitor porous electrode includes nonlinear
distributed double-layer capacitance and non-linear distributed Faradaic capacitance. These two
capacitances have different time constants. Therefore, if the electrochemical supercapacitor is charged
with high current the non-linear distributed double-layer capacitance is charged to a rated voltage faster
than non-linear distributed Faradaic capacitance
."

These capacitors are fascinating -- as noted here http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/dec252000/1656.pdf - they are characterised by two components; the electrical double layer capacitance and the pseudocapacitance. .. indeed, the equivalent spice model given in the first paper is quite alarming in it's complexity.

While I can find plenty of academic papers I cant find a summary reference on the behaviour and recommended use of the current generation of "car" supercapacitors -- does anyone know if and where this data is available?

thanks
mark.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: sparks on January 12, 2009, 09:39:26 PM
    Capacitors are funny animals.  They must physically squeeze the heck out of the dielectric.   Especially if you're up around a coulomb on each plate.  No wonder they need to dissipate heat when used in an ac permanent split capacitor motor .
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on January 13, 2009, 01:18:04 AM

@all :

Second question is this : I have two digi-meters and each measures a different hfe-value. e.g. one shows hfe 100 the other hfe 120 for the same transistor.

Is there a standard-method of this hfe-measurement ? I do not trust these meters after this experience.

best Regards

Kator01

Hi Kator,
I suspect most typical low cost DVM's arn't properly calibrated when it comes to transistor measurement. Cheaper meters often only report Beta. (DC current gain)
Also, hfe comes in different types. (hfe is one of a suite of h parameters and refers only to the common emitter configuration. You can call it the AC current gain.)
Lower case is used to denote small signal operation. (hfe)
Upper case is used to denote large signal conditions. (hFE)
Small signal means signal is not large enough to take the transistor where the characteristics are significantly changed.
Large signal obviously does and is what you need for switching as the transistor will go from full off to full on. (Saturation)
hFE is always less than hfe.
Beta is a static (DC) parameter the DC current gain,which gives a rough idea of the ac gain.
Finally, hfe and hFE gains diminish at higher frequencies due to  Miller capacitance.

Hope this helps.

Derrick






Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kator01 on January 14, 2009, 09:44:23 PM
Hii Derricka,

thank you for your explanation. It is now clear that these dc-hfe-values are of no meaning, so I have to set up a circuit by which I will measure amiplitue, puls-response-time and dv/dt using a contant voltage-supply in two variations at a given frequency ( 5 to 10 MHz in this case as this is the range of operation in the ESEC)  :

1) contant-current-control
2) no contant-current-control

By comparing these two wave-forms I will get better data.  But again I would expect drstiffler do give us a hint.


Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 18, 2009, 10:06:49 PM
@all

WHAT? has has taken place here, the overunity.com is now full of politics and .........

Where are the real people going to?

I will not post here.............
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on January 18, 2009, 10:18:58 PM
@DrStiffler
There is a lot going on at the Joule Thief thread and it has a lot to do with your circuit too.
Check it out, so far it has been going very well.  (no negative vibes)
Maybe some of your experience could be helpful there too.
These units can be built from a disposable camera circuit.
So anyone can build one in minutes.
I strongly believe it can be modified to duplicate your cold electricity results.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 18, 2009, 10:38:50 PM
Dr. Stiffler:

Yes, I agree.  There is a good group of folks over there and everyone sticks to the experiments and no politics.  I have learned a lot since starting this topic and even with what little I know about how your devices work, I can see a relationship in that I can light 100 LEDs from an old AA battery with only 1 wire attached. (and 400 using both wires)  Please join us there as we would value your input.  Thanks.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 18, 2009, 11:30:46 PM
@drstiffler

I have not learnt the radio frequencies yet. But I would appreciate very much that you joined us at the joule thief thread. You are also invited to Feedback to the source thread.

Do not leave us. You are a very important person to us.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: spinner on January 19, 2009, 02:01:25 PM
@drstiffler
I have not learnt the radio frequencies yet. But I would appreciate very much that you joined us at the joule thief thread. You are also invited to Feedback to the source thread.
Do not leave us. You are a very important person to us.
Jesus

[quote from dr.stiffler]
@all
WHAT? has has taken place here, the overunity.com is now full of politics and .........
Where are the real people going to?
I will not post here.......
[/quote]

[quote from AbbaRue]
@DrStiffler
There is a lot going on at the Joule Thief thread and it has a lot to do with your circuit too.
Check it out, so far it has been going very well.  (no negative vibes)
Maybe some of your experience could be helpful there too.
These units can be built from a disposable camera circuit.
So anyone can build one in minutes.
I strongly believe it can be modified to duplicate your cold electricity results.
[/quote]

[quote from pirate88179]
Dr. Stiffler:
Yes, I agree.  There is a good group of folks over there and everyone sticks to the experiments and no politics.  I have learned a lot since starting this topic and even with what little I know about how your devices work, I can see a relationship in that I can light 100 LEDs from an old AA battery with only 1 wire attached. (and 400 using both wires)  Please join us there as we would value your input.  Thanks.    Bill
[/quote]



Ah, well...

The Joule thread is a very good topic, showing the case where a group of dedicated and sincerely motivated individuals can achieve something real... in practice!!
Like squeezing the most energy out of the "conventionally" proclaimed "dead" battery... Or, recycling the already wasted (one time used, lost for ever) electronics..
This is a real, and a noble achievement!.... Something which you cannot see everyday... No doubt!

But, in reality, this is not exactly something new.... I sincerely do hope you guys know that?


What you do is a not very common (but  well understand) application of power (V/I conversion).


So, check out your circuit to power a 100W conventional light bulb from a single "AA" battery... Well, It's possible!?
But for how long? The energy available (batt. capacity) is the determining factor....

A few years ago there was a guy who could crank and start a small car's motor with a help of just four of AA cells and a special circuit....   Fascinating, indeed!


So, you're calling for dr.Stiffler's help?
And, you're intrigued by his "single wire concepts?"

Do you know the principle of electric circuits?
Why is there such a fascination for the "single wire" concepts???
What about the "cold electricity"? Can you explain me  (I'd be grateful!)


Can I ask, is mr. Stiffler really a "doctor"? Is electrotrechnics his hobby, or profession?
???

Why he doesn't try to charm and convince his "academic colleagues"? Why he is seeking for approval in the "fringe science" sites?? Why, oh, why... Is he just a charlatan?

You tell me..


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on January 29, 2009, 10:10:10 PM
@Watchers

The good doctor now has a fully automated measurement station. After 'Ike' we were able to help in building back his research lab. What we were able to do with his programming expertise was to get him a fully automated bench in our lab that has all computer controlled equipment. Now with the click of a mouse he is able to work with his SEC Theory on a real time basis. This was all required as age is taking its toll and we must insure that SEC is fully realized.

Simon.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: derricka on January 30, 2009, 12:18:39 AM
@Watchers

The good doctor now has a fully automated measurement station. After 'Ike' we were able to help in building back his research lab. What we were able to do with his programming expertise was to get him a fully automated bench in our lab that has all computer controlled equipment. Now with the click of a mouse he is able to work with his SEC Theory on a real time basis. This was all required as age is taking its toll and we must insure that SEC is fully realized.

Simon.

@ Simon
Do you know if Dr Stiffler will be posting new findings here, or anywhere other than his own website?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on January 30, 2009, 03:10:29 AM
Age ?

Doc can't be that old, at least from his voice it does not sound that old?

I hope he doesn't croak on us...there's still work to be done. :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on January 30, 2009, 09:42:29 PM
@ Simon
Do you know if Dr Stiffler will be posting new findings here, or anywhere other than his own website?
#derricka

You may want to watch www.scribd.com as the Doctor is in the last edits of three papers he will publish there.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on January 30, 2009, 09:46:55 PM
Age ?

Doc can't be that old, at least from his voice it does not sound that old?

I hope he doesn't croak on us...there's still work to be done. :D
#amigo

I myself think age is a relative thing and to see DrS you would not think him to be 66 years of age - and yes he has a strong and caustic sometimes voice. He was doing very well until the last year and now the numbers are adding up. He will be publishing papers to www.scribd.com and I understand he is going to do a couple of videos where yo can actually see the man - that up to now has been highly protective of this type of exposure.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on January 31, 2009, 04:46:38 AM
@DrSimon

I agree, age is relative and really part of our belief system/programming (and anything programmed can be de-programmed :) )

Please let us know when those documents are posted, as well as videos.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on January 31, 2009, 05:31:26 AM
Looking forward to see his 2 cap unit running ! :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Shanti on February 02, 2009, 05:03:14 PM
Boah, quite a lot of posts, since I last saw in this thread...

Short question @DrStiffler:
Did you every consider using coils for the rectification instead of the two diodes?
E.g. like Tesla did explain in his US Patent Nr 413353: Method of obtaining Direct from alternating currents.
It could be interesting if there would be any difference...

The basic principle in short:
Namely to wind two coils on a permanent magnet. This actually means the core is already saturated in one direction. Now if you pass a current through a coil, so that it's field goes in the same direction as the core field, the core, as it is already saturated will not influence the coil, so that it behaves just like an air core coil. But if current flows in the other direction, it's field will diminish the field of the core, so that now the core is not anymore saturated for this direction, which means, the coil now behaves as a coil with a core. And as usually cores do increase the inductance of a coil by factors of 1'000 times and more, the impedance in one direction is > 1'000 times bigger than in the other direction. So by using two coils in different directions one can rectify AC. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on February 03, 2009, 12:49:40 AM
Quote
Can I ask, is mr. Stiffler really a "doctor"? Is electrotrechnics his hobby, or profession?
Why he doesn't try to charm and convince his "academic colleagues"? Why he is seeking for approval in the "fringe science" sites?? Why, oh, why... Is he just a charlatan?
You tell me..

@Spinner. Anyone who's been around the FE scene long enough knows that there is hell to pay when one steps outside the politically correct, socially engineered groupspeak, mindthink and paradigms that serve those whose interests benefit from limiting access to free, abundant energy.  Character assassination, vilification and ostracization from the scientific establishment are usually part of this "hell to pay." 

The doc has played his cards well, I believe.  He has judiciously shared the fruits of his careful professional investigations.

B
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on February 03, 2009, 01:34:13 AM
Looking forward to see his 2 cap unit running ! :)

I have completed a series of rigorous capacitor -to- capacitor tests of this style of circuit and a number of significantly improved versions. These tests were done using electrolytic capacitors and not electrochemical capacitors. The capacitors I used were well characterized under the experimental conditions used and shown to be working as pure capacitances within a close tolerance. In all cases the energy yield is less than unity. This is despite the NLO oscillator and improved variations running in what Stiffler would call "Ultra Wide Band" mode.

Tests using electrochemical capacitors (such as those used by Stiffler in his recent documented ESEC work) are fraught with problems. This is particularly true if researchers are using the car audio grade capacitors (as Stiffler is) rather than electrochemical capacitors manufactured by makers such as Maxwell. Not only do these car audio capacitors have far lower capacitances than advertised (only 5 - 30% of advertised values in tests I have done) but their apparent capacitances vary greatly under varying operational conditions. Particularly notable is the reduction in their apparent capacitance under condition of rapid charge and discharging cycles such as Stiffler claimed the best performance for. Under such conditions calculations of the power yielded can be in error by very large margins if assumptions are made based on advertised and constant capacitance.

People using this sort of non linear, negative resistance transistor oscillator (http://www.urel.feec.vutbr.cz/RADIOENG/fulltexts/2005/05_04_033_039.pdf), would be well advised to study its performance before implementing it. Notably there is a significant frequency dependence on voltage and also a number of different modes of operation at wider voltage ranges. The steps seen in some graphs on Stifflers ESEC page are expected from this class of oscillator as the voltage varies the oscillator’s performance. -- over the voltage range applied the frequency shift is so great that the oscillator output sweeps more than one octave and in doing so drives the so called output inductor through several self resonance modes. Contrary to what Stiffler implies it is extremely easy to monitor the oscillator performance with an oscilloscope without altering its performance. Furthermore I have found the experimental version of the circuit to closely follow the performance of SPICE Simulations of the circuit which provides for a further validation of experimental circuit behaviour.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: spinner on February 04, 2009, 01:49:23 PM
@Spinner. Anyone who's been around the FE scene long enough knows that there is hell to pay when one steps outside the politically correct, socially engineered groupspeak, mindthink and paradigms that serve those whose interests benefit from limiting access to free, abundant energy.  Character assassination, vilification and ostracization from the scientific establishment are usually part of this "hell to pay." 

The doc has played his cards well, I believe.  He has judiciously shared the fruits of his careful professional investigations.

B

The classics.... Suppression...    Paradigm shift..., a physics revolution..., Big Oil revenge..., etc, etc.... "Single wire... Overunity.... Blablablah...." Yadadadada.....

We'll see... ("soon...")

Mr. Stffler never answered any of my few (valid) questions..... I made just a few posts in his thread....
The best he can came up with was deleting the "annoying",  skeptical...,  "unwanted" posts. ..

For me, case closed...
Ah, never mind....

Btw, Mr. Bob Smith, I'm on this scene long enough to know what I'm talking about...
O K ?  :P
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on February 04, 2009, 07:29:53 PM
Just wanted to check in after not reading this thread for several months. Too many posts have accumulated to go through them, but It's been a year or more since we first heard that it was apparently OU: has Dr. Stiffler finally tweaked his device enough so that it is self-powered?

I hope the answer is yes, because I could use a break from the fuel bills.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 04, 2009, 10:10:35 PM
I have completed a series of rigorous capacitor -to- capacitor tests of this style of circuit and a number of significantly improved versions. These tests were done using electrolytic capacitors and not electrochemical capacitors. The capacitors I used were well characterized under the experimental conditions used and shown to be working as pure capacitances within a close tolerance. In all cases the energy yield is less than unity. This is despite the NLO oscillator and improved variations running in what Stiffler would call "Ultra Wide Band" mode.

Tests using electrochemical capacitors (such as those used by Stiffler in his recent documented ESEC work) are fraught with problems. This is particularly true if researchers are using the car audio grade capacitors (as Stiffler is) rather than electrochemical capacitors manufactured by makers such as Maxwell. Not only do these car audio capacitors have far lower capacitances than advertised (only 5 - 30% of advertised values in tests I have done) but their apparent capacitances vary greatly under varying operational conditions. Particularly notable is the reduction in their apparent capacitance under condition of rapid charge and discharging cycles such as Stiffler claimed the best performance for. Under such conditions calculations of the power yielded can be in error by very large margins if assumptions are made based on advertised and constant capacitance.

People using this sort of non linear, negative resistance transistor oscillator (http://www.urel.feec.vutbr.cz/RADIOENG/fulltexts/2005/05_04_033_039.pdf), would be well advised to study its performance before implementing it. Notably there is a significant frequency dependence on voltage and also a number of different modes of operation at wider voltage ranges. The steps seen in some graphs on Stifflers ESEC page are expected from this class of oscillator as the voltage varies the oscillator’s performance. -- over the voltage range applied the frequency shift is so great that the oscillator output sweeps more than one octave and in doing so drives the so called output inductor through several self resonance modes. Contrary to what Stiffler implies it is extremely easy to monitor the oscillator performance with an oscilloscope without altering its performance. Furthermore I have found the experimental version of the circuit to closely follow the performance of SPICE Simulations of the circuit which provides for a further validation of experimental circuit behaviour.

Gee Mark I know Lattice333 is so happy his brother? is getting into the act, but as always there are those that think they are the people with the "RIGHT ANSWER". Gee Mark you think I am dumb enought to not know what I'm working with, maybe you best think again.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 04, 2009, 10:23:57 PM
@All

It is ironic that if you do not give the "Free Lunch" you are the worst person in the world and know not of what you speak.

Well for Lattice333 and MarkSnoswell (who may or may not be the same person) or one of many I did PM's with under the idea it was Lattice333 (only).

It appears I am the "DOG" again because I would not give them the circuits for ESEC6. Now if one is not smart enough to test a UC and determine the multiple results that a cap can present, depending on "Charge"/"Discharge" currents and indeed how this testing is performed, them they should just walk away from ESEC and "SHUT THE MOUTH".

Of 17 papers published by various Scientists and (cap manufactures) it is very evident that to make an assumption as did "MarkSnoswell" is, well a big "ERROR".

God I can not believe it.  "You didn't tell me, you did not give me the secret, gee I'm a good guy. Well do the"DAMN WORK" and maybe I will help.

Dr.S.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrSimon on February 04, 2009, 10:42:51 PM
#People

Will you all not learn?

DrS wanted me to upload this list of links so you all coud if you wish see the pitfalls and problems that can come from using the old EE-101 approach to Super-Capacitors as some have here.

Fellows - you are really jerks!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/uploads/papers_application/72B4ADF9DAD74E4CB7293DE6F4B62427.pdf
http://www.cap-xx.com/resources/app_notes/AN1005%20Simple%20Supercapacitor%20Measurement%202-1.pdf
http://www.he-arc.ch/hearc/fr/imi/publications/ING_-_IMI_publications/IPEMCx2006_RAFIK.pdf
www.scribd.com/doc/9768424/Electrochemical-characterization-of-supercapacitors-based-on-carbons-derived
http://www.imeko.org/publications/tc4-2007/IMEKO-TC4-2007-009.pdf
http://electronicdesign.com/Articles/Index.cfm?AD=1&AD=1&AD=1&ArticleID=17465
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-8.htm
http://www.monstercable.com/mpc/stable/tech/A2546_Fusing_Stiffening_Capacitors.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercapacitor
http://www.ultracapacitors.org/index.php

So much for the public forums approach to helping the world - is that "Let it be me or no-one".

Simon
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on February 05, 2009, 12:25:44 AM
Nisi illegitimi carburundum.  :o)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MarkSnoswell on February 05, 2009, 01:29:01 AM
When I posted some information from my own first hand experiments on the behaviour of electrochemical capacitors and the class of negative resistance transistor oscillator being used Stiffler assumed something other than what was said and has reacted in a very unprofessional way.

It is regrettable that forums such as these appear to create an environment where some users will behave badly sometimes -- I speak from experience of running our own forums, on CGSociety.com, where we have 1,000+ members concurrently on line at any one time. I would encourage everyone to follow the spirit of the rules I drafted for our CGSociety forums:

Before posting, please review the following:
1.   Be courteous and polite. Show respect to the opinions and feelings of others. Use of the forums is a privilege, not a right.
2.   Engage your brain before your mouth. You are responsible for your own words and any harm they may cause.
3.   Don't dilute the forums with irrelevant and unnecessary fluff. CGTalk is a professional, moderated forum. It's a place to talk about all things related to computer graphics.
4.   Critiques and responses to images are to be constructive and related to improving the quality of the artwork.

For the record I am Mark Snoswell - search for me on Google if you like -- it looks like there are now 44 pages of search results for me. I have only one username, my own name, and I use it everywhere. I have never, nor will I ever, seek anonymity behind another username.

I would make one final suggesting to everyone trying to push the frontiers of our knowledge back and develop technologies and devices to improve life for everyone and the planet... Always remember that you are striving for the extraordinary -- that which does not fit within current understanding. To identify extraordinary things you have to take extraordinary measures to make sure your discoveries are truly new -- trust nothing, test everything, examine every assumption, be meticulous in your observations and above all be completely honest with yourself and others.

I will refrain from posting here for the foreseeable future - so, good luck and good cheer to everyone :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on February 05, 2009, 01:56:15 AM
I better not say my 2 cents about CGTalk then - I've been around longer than that and have quite a few things to say...

In any case, the issue here appears to be one of an agenda (motive would be a mild word to use here). Coupled that with ego (everyone has one) it creates all kinds of confrontational situations.

I also think that because we are interacting over a sterile medium (Web) there's no live communication in-person and so you can not really see and feel the other person (their body language for example).

The words being written here most of the times come out right and are understood in context, but sometimes they are not interpreted the right way...

The questions to be asked are:

1. What are Dr. Stiffler's goals with his "disclosure" here. Doc, are you having dreams of some tropical paradise retirement based on your research perhaps?

2. What does everyone else expect from this thread and the Doc? As he puts it "A free lunch" maybe?

Next, I will refer to the Western mentality here because the rest of the world is in slums and has far bigger problems than the ones below.

Most Western people are docile and inert and will not make a move unless they are truly forced with some impeding doom (and perhaps not even then). Everyone expects a "free lunch" because it is "free" and will not make them change their current state (all objects prefer to remain in the state they are - no energy expansion).

Having expectations of something different (behaviour wise) is improbable and illogical so the obvious courses of action are:

- suck it up and be altruistic,
- stop interacting with others (keep stuff to yourself),
- don't bother doing anything at all and be docile like the rest.

I'm sure I could add another one or two but I think you all get the picture.

So what does all this have to do with Free Energy?

EVERYTHING !

Ask yourself what exactly is your goal and what are you trying to accomplish...are you in the service to others or in the service to self?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bennyboy on February 05, 2009, 02:42:06 AM
Well said amigo.  As was once state, with great knowledge comes great responsibility.  If you stumble upon an apparent OU device, will your motives remain truly altruistic, or will you be dominated by your ego or other personal desires?

Who knows until you're in the situation I suppose.  I just hope if someone does stumble upon such a device here, that they remember the reason they joined this open source forum and started posting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: professor on February 05, 2009, 11:10:46 PM
The classics.... Suppression...    Paradigm shift..., a physics revolution..., Big Oil revenge..., etc, etc.... "Single wire... Overunity.... Blablablah...." Yadadadada.....

We'll see... ("soon...")

Mr. Stffler never answered any of my few (valid) questions..... I made just a few posts in his thread....
The best he can came up with was deleting the "annoying",  skeptical...,  "unwanted" posts. ..

For me, case closed...
Ah, never mind....

Btw, Mr. Bob Smith, I'm on this scene long enough to know what I'm talking about...
O K ?  :P

I am amazed at the Salesman ship of this Man,however
he could doing much better by selling used Cars.
Yes and he never could explain his phenomena ,if you can call it that.
He never provided any scientific Data other than his tinkering.
Look at JLN Labs he has my admiration plus he does not sell trinkets.
I read that Stifler conned a new sucker to supplied him with a Lab.
Guess there is one born every day.
The man is a scheming charlatan, what will he try to sell you next?
One thing I must give him he sure fooled a lot of people to get such many replies.
professor
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on February 07, 2009, 08:57:53 PM
Oh my if this is great; :)

PLEASE! Bring on the critics, say what you wish, and by all means hang out as far as you can stretch.

Please note I am deleting nothing and its not because I'm fear Stephen or the whiners, its because it close to get it on time.

Oh Professor, damn, maybe I can add some loss to your Spatial Light so when you are first in line to buy one commercially you can be happy with the same old thing.

Hey, please bring it on and post all the BS you like, please..................

And MS, get your DSO out and do a few hundred test and maybe you will see the error in you great review of my work.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on February 14, 2009, 04:08:55 AM
Hi Doc,

I see there are new videos on youtube...Cool White series. Would you please "enlighten" us about it here?

There are still some of us who are (trying) following your SEC developments. :)

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on February 14, 2009, 12:13:04 PM
@All
If you are using a SEC to light LED's you don't need an   "AV Plug"
The LED's function as an AV Plug by themselves.
Also try this experiment. place a number of LED's in series connected to the SEC output and take
some voltage measurements between the second LED and the second last LED of the chain.
You will notice that as you connect more LED's in series these two places will give you more voltage.

Things are very quiet around here lately, all you experimenting with the SEC.
Any new discoveries? 

@Amigo
Do you have a link to the videos you are referring to?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on February 15, 2009, 03:47:00 PM
AbbaRue,

They are on DrStiffler's YouTube page:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MRH2O2&view=videos
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on February 16, 2009, 02:58:23 AM
The Doc refers to the headache that ensues when the aluminum blocks are placed one on top of the other in his build blocks video. This effect seems similar to that experienced by experimenters with improperly aligned joe cells.  I don't want to sidetrack this thread, however the parallel effect might be worth noting:  From what I understand, the cell, when properly aligned, sets up an aether spin which draws orgone into the cell and through the blind plug, to the carburetor.  An improperly aligned cell will bring on wicked headaches in the experimenter.  Here's the leading cell group member's explanation as to why:

"An improperly set up cell can generate a Torsion field, that will give you a
headache and nausea, because the field configuration conflicts with the
natural TF of your body. "
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/JoesCell2/message/13612

Forum member singerxyz has a Youtube video showing his almost instantaneous charging of a battery with a properly aligned joe cell.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4N32VuWxwc
Could it be that both the SEC and the Joe cell are doing the same thing - drawing on the spatial energy lattice/vacuum/aether, to derive/cohere a form of energy to drive a load?  Perhaps the stacked aluminum blocks are creating a torsion field which conflicts with that of the body...
FWIW,
B
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: professor on February 16, 2009, 10:03:00 PM
*Removed* by Dr.S.

@Stephen

Get this jerk off this thread..................
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on February 16, 2009, 10:16:18 PM
@Bob Smith

Thanks for pointing that out, I would not have thought about TF as a potential explanation. After seeing a recent lecture from Richard Hoagland where he spent much time talking about TF, as he was the last one I'd suspect to bring TF up, I am convinced even more that TF should be investigated even more! :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on February 17, 2009, 12:38:59 AM
Hi Doc,

I went to your website moments earlier and it was gone...but luckily I see you changed your mind and it's back up. :)

EDIT: OK I was wrong, the site is down. My browser must have cached it on this laptop. When I went to the computer on my workbench the site was gone. =(

Please don't do this to us, we have enough "roller coaster" rides in our lives as it is...

If you don't like what professor writes in your thread, you can erase his posts if you must, but it's not a reason to pull everything you got off-line. It does not really affect him at all while it's depriving the rest of us from following your research.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 04:23:44 PM
@all

I did not want to say anything yet, but I am having a tremendous success!!!!!!
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg158838#msg158838

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: scraven on February 22, 2009, 06:08:55 AM


The paper on the bogus capacitors...

http://www.scribd.com/people/view/6820479-dr-ronald-r-stiffler
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Koen1 on February 27, 2009, 03:09:41 PM
So, what's going on here?

Stiffler not posting, Stifflerscientific.com offline, what happened, someone take out Dr Stiffler?

regards,
Koen
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: spinner on February 27, 2009, 04:08:53 PM
So, what's going on here?

Stiffler not posting, Stifflerscientific.com offline, what happened, someone take out Dr Stiffler?

regards,
Koen

Lol, it just the obvious... You know, the MiBs,.. Bildenbergs.., Illuminati,..  .. etc...
As soon someone comes close to "FE", the standard procedure starts....
 ;D

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on February 27, 2009, 05:27:34 PM
   Since he was deleting all I posted, not sure if this will stay but...

He did say that the site would be taken down some time in January
but did stay on a bit longer. Then again, some providers do take their
systems down for maint runs and such. Can be upwards of a couple
of hours sometimes. So I wouldn't write him gone yet if at all.

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on February 27, 2009, 05:58:06 PM
Doc's site was on his own computer therefore it could go down anytime, and it did. I wouldn't count on the site coming back, but I really don't know so...I hope you all had a copy of it saved somewhere. Maybe you should grab those YT videos as well while they are (still) there... ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dankie on April 09, 2009, 01:03:56 AM
FE is already out and DrStiffler is teaching you how to do it , maybe if you stopped wasting your time with that Mylow crap and payed attention .

I wish I knew as much as DrStiffler .
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Koen1 on April 09, 2009, 01:06:48 PM
Baie dankie, Dankie ;D

Thing is, Dr Stiffler seems to have disappeared somewhat...
His site is partially up again but all the available info has gone,
Stiffler himself has not resurfaced since he dropped from the forum here,
and there appear to be zero developments since...

I agree that Stiffler's circuits and his single-wire experiments were/are very
interesting and some appear to indicate posible over unity, but it is
very difficult to say much more about it for lack of info.

If you have any new info, I would love to hear it. :)

Kind regards,
Koen
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hydrocontrol on April 09, 2009, 02:39:03 PM
Baie dankie, Dankie ;D

Thing is, Dr Stiffler seems to have disappeared somewhat...
His site is partially up again but all the available info has gone,
Stiffler himself has not resurfaced since he dropped from the forum here,
and there appear to be zero developments since...

I agree that Stiffler's circuits and his single-wire experiments were/are very
interesting and some appear to indicate posible over unity, but it is
very difficult to say much more about it for lack of info.

If you have any new info, I would love to hear it. :)

Kind regards,
Koen
He is still around. Posted yesterday in this thread.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7039.msg169482#msg169482
I suspect he is still developing but just went "underground" with it. It can be a lot easier to develop without a lot of "noise" to deal with which happened in this thread. I think he may have gotten a tight group of "replicators" or "developers" that are making progress without the "noise".
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on April 09, 2009, 03:13:48 PM
I suspect he is still developing but just went "underground" with it. It can be a lot easier to develop without a lot of "noise" to deal with which happened in this thread. I think he may have gotten a tight group of "replicators" or "developers" that are making progress without the "noise".
correct
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hydrocontrol on April 09, 2009, 03:31:34 PM
correct
I figured as much. I did purchase two of the kits and have played with them with a great show of promise. Because of the current economic situation I am having to put in more "work" hours and less "research" hours. At least at some point I would like to jump back into the project and see what has happened since the last update. Looks like it will be a while longer before I can do that "research" due to the continuing bad economy. Need to keep the house now so I can do the research later..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on April 18, 2009, 02:16:59 PM
I thought I would try try Dr. Stiffler's Amazing circuit.

I made a few video's of it on youtube.
Here is one called the popcorn ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kQpS6PA8p8&feature=channel_page

And here is one charging a capacitor off the bottom half of the ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM85MJRh-mY&feature=channel_page

Here is one more running a Joule Thief wireless off the power the SEC puts out while running lights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5MxLG-axM&feature=channel_page

If you make a small AV plug for the capacitor's they will charge wireless and they do charge fast.


This is an Amazing circuit thank you so much DR. Stiffler.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 18, 2009, 03:07:29 PM
I thought I would try try Dr. Stiffler's Amazing circuit.

I made a few video's of it on youtube.
Here is one called the popcorn ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kQpS6PA8p8&feature=channel_page

And here is one charging a capacitor off the bottom half of the ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM85MJRh-mY&feature=channel_page

Here is one more running a Joule Thief wireless off the power the SEC puts out while running lights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG5MxLG-axM&feature=channel_page

If you make a small AV plug for the capacitor's they will charge wireless and they do charge fast.


This is an Amazing circuit thank you so much DR. Stiffler.

Congratulations @slayer007 !

Do you have a circuit shematic of your presentation here?
Looking at the videos I see that your SEC replication seems very different and simpler than the Dr.'s.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on April 18, 2009, 03:22:43 PM
Congratulations @slayer007 !

Do you have a circuit shematic of your presentation here?
Looking at the videos I see that your SEC replication seems very different and simpler than the Dr.'s.

Jesus

Thanks Nievesoliveras

Yes the circuit I'm using is the same as on this page.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.msg118617#msg118617

For L1 I did 22 turns of 20ga. wire.
Lb is 18 turns around a ferrite rod.
The ferrite rod is used for tunning the sec.
L2 is around 40 turns of 23ga. wire.

Then I'm comming off L2 going to the big Alu ball.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 18, 2009, 04:09:54 PM
Thank you @slayer007 !

For the benefit of the other people that are interested on this thread I include a graphic composition.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on April 18, 2009, 04:29:41 PM
Right now I'm not using the filter part eather.

I did try to make a filter but it didn't seem to work so I took it out.
I was getting a lot of voltage going back to the battery.
I could light an led off eather one of the battery post by holding one side of the led and tuching the battery post.

I think for the filter to work right you need the ferrite beads inbetween the caps.

But it still works great with out it.
I will try to remake it with some ferrite beads and see if it works better when I get some.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 18, 2009, 04:37:57 PM
Right now I'm not using the filter part eather.

I did try to make a filter but it didn't seem to work so I took it out.
I was getting a lot of voltage going back to the battery.
I could light an led off eather one of the battery post by holding one side of the led and tuching the battery post.

I think for the filter to work right you need the ferrite beads inbetween the caps.

But it still works great with out it.
I will try to remake it with some ferrite beads and see if it works better when I get some.


Thank you @slayer007 !

I dont know much, but I am here if you need any help.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on April 22, 2009, 02:02:47 PM
Here is another short video.
This is charging a capacitor with a AV plug off one of the battery post.
It will charge off eather post.
It will even charge another 12 volt battery while running the lights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHNQ0c7vsCU&feature=channel_page
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on April 22, 2009, 04:02:09 PM
Slayer:
   Not sure where you are but if in the US, be very weary of the rf that you are transmitting.
The tickets are usually 5k. That you can run off the battery post means that you have a large
amount of HF going back to the source. That is what the 3 caps and a diode are for, to trap it.
Take a scope shot off the battery and you should see the rf.

   But on the other side, you have just shown me the way to fire 4 foot fl tubes for my apt. Just
curious, what is the ma drain you see? I want one for the bath, bed, kitchen and two for the main
room. Each will have its own batt and should last a long time per charge. Using 5ah gells  for the
power. That should just about drop my elec bill to the monthly and watch them cry a bit.

thaelin
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on April 22, 2009, 04:15:42 PM
Slayer:
   Not sure where you are but if in the US, be very weary of the rf that you are transmitting.
The tickets are usually 5k. That you can run off the battery post means that you have a large
amount of HF going back to the source. That is what the 3 caps and a diode are for, to trap it.
Take a scope shot off the battery and you should see the rf.

   But on the other side, you have just shown me the way to fire 4 foot fl tubes for my apt. Just
curious, what is the ma drain you see? I want one for the bath, bed, kitchen and two for the main
room. Each will have its own batt and should last a long time per charge. Using 5ah gells  for the
power. That should just about drop my elec bill to the monthly and watch them cry a bit.

thaelin



My digital meters go crazy when the sec is running I need to get a analog meter.
So I can't read the current it's using.

But I have been running it on and off for a few days" I'd say around eight hours".
The power in the battery was 12.55 three days ago and now it's still 12.50.

The battery is a big 12v 80Ah battery.
The voltage does go down but it seems to recover most of when it sits a little.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 23, 2009, 12:59:50 AM
   But on the other side, you have just shown me the way to fire 4 foot fl tubes for my apt. Just
curious, what is the ma drain you see? I want one for the bath, bed, kitchen and two for the main
room. Each will have its own batt and should last a long time per charge. Using 5ah gells  for the
power. That should just about drop my elec bill to the monthly and watch them cry a bit.

thaelin


Hi Thaelin,

The current draw is probably sub 200mA or sub 100mA because the MPSA06 cannot operate above that threshold (it burns out).

The transistor still requires a copper heat sink on it, running it anywhere over 80mA...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AbbaRue on April 24, 2009, 12:16:38 AM
If anyone is really worried about the RF given off by the SEC circuit they could get some chicken wire,
and make a simple cage around there setup.
Just connect the chicken wire to ground and that should stop the RF from leaving area.

@slayer007
Awsome resaults!
I tried building a SEC circuit based on the same dia. as yours but couldn't get good resaults.
I think my problem may be the Transistor I was using.  I used 2N5551's. 
Need to get some MPSA06's. 
I did have some success with a very early version of the SEC when it used the AM antenna. 
Like the one by Amigo on page 69
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.680
Interesting how the SEC started out as a Joule Thief with a ferrite antenna instead of a toroid,
and then evolved into what we have on page 226.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on April 24, 2009, 12:56:28 AM
If anyone is really worried about the RF given off by the SEC circuit they could get some chicken wire,
and make a simple cage around there setup.
Just connect the chicken wire to ground and that should stop the RF from leaving area.

@slayer007
Awsome resaults!
I tried building a SEC circuit based on the same dia. as yours but couldn't get good resaults.
I think my problem may be the Transistor I was using.  I used 2N5551's. 
Need to get some MPSA06's. 
I did have some success with a very early version of the SEC when it used the AM antenna. 
Like the one by Amigo on page 69
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.680
Interesting how the SEC started out as a Joule Thief with a ferrite antenna instead of a toroid,
and then evolved into what we have on page 226.





Thanks AbbaRue

Yes the MPSA06's. are a must for this circuit.
I bought 100 of them off ebay for around $9 with shipping.

Some others might work but I think these are the best I found so far for this circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 24, 2009, 01:39:00 AM
I am of an opinion that MPSA06 is not necessarily the only transistor that will work, though it is the best one so far.

I have gotten the SEC effect with 2N2222, 2N3904, 2N3905...I have some 2N4401 and will try those as well soon.

Also, with all the testing I have done, I do not believe hFE has major impact on the performance of the SEC (though it might be contributing to its operation). The MPSA06s tried were from several different vendors with a wide range of gains, anywhere from 60 to over 300, and they all appeared to have performed as expected.

Of course, as no real sensitive measurements have been done, it still warrants further investigation and experimentation to determine which ones do work better than others.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 24, 2009, 11:37:20 PM
If anyone is really worried about the RF given off by the SEC circuit they could get some chicken wire,
and make a simple cage around there setup.
Just connect the chicken wire to ground and that should stop the RF from leaving area.

@slayer007
Awsome resaults!
I tried building a SEC circuit based on the same dia. as yours but couldn't get good resaults.
I think my problem may be the Transistor I was using.  I used 2N5551's. 
Need to get some MPSA06's. 
I did have some success with a very early version of the SEC when it used the AM antenna. 
Like the one by Amigo on page 69
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.680
Interesting how the SEC started out as a Joule Thief with a ferrite antenna instead of a toroid,
and then evolved into what we have on page 226.



@AbbaRue

**Interesting how the SEC started out as a Joule Thief with a ferrite antenna instead of a toroid,
and then evolved into what we have on page 226. **

LOL

What? SEC Exciters came from a JT? I know that sun spots are down, but this is ridiculous. Sorry to spoil your dream but the first open ended coil exciter was built in 1995.

Besides happening way before this JT thing was born LOL, how can you even compare the two different systems?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 24, 2009, 11:41:50 PM
I am of an opinion that MPSA06 is not necessarily the only transistor that will work, though it is the best one so far.

I have gotten the SEC effect with 2N2222, 2N3904, 2N3905...I have some 2N4401 and will try those as well soon.

Also, with all the testing I have done, I do not believe hFE has major impact on the performance of the SEC (though it might be contributing to its operation). The MPSA06s tried were from several different vendors with a wide range of gains, anywhere from 60 to over 300, and they all appeared to have performed as expected.

Of course, as no real sensitive measurements have been done, it still warrants further investigation and experimentation to determine which ones do work better than others.
@amigo
Read back through this thread and you will see that successful replications have consisted of the 06 transistor and asserting that many others will work without (knowing for sure) will only lead to many failures. So you are able to state this without quantitative results as a reference?

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AquariuZ on April 25, 2009, 12:01:33 AM
Dr Stiffler,

I am trying to access the referenced YouTube videos in this section but they have all been removed by "user".

Next I tried to access your referenced websites and they are no longer online, nor is the one referenced in your profile (parked).

Can you please point me to your active website and videos?

Thank you in advance.

AZ
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 25, 2009, 12:46:21 AM
Dr Stiffler,

I am trying to access the referenced YouTube videos in this section but they have all been removed by "user".

Next I tried to access your referenced websites and they are no longer online, nor is the one referenced in your profile (parked).

Can you please point me to your active website and videos?

Thank you in advance.

AZ
@AquariuZ
Search YT for 'Dr Stiffler' or 'MRH2O2'
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: TheNOP on April 25, 2009, 12:57:39 AM
@AbbaRue

**Interesting how the SEC started out as a Joule Thief with a ferrite antenna instead of a toroid,
and then evolved into what we have on page 226. **

LOL

What? SEC Exciters came from a JT? I know that sun spots are down, but this is ridiculous. Sorry to spoil your dream but the first open ended coil exciter was built in 1995.

Besides happening way before this JT thing was born LOL, how can you even compare the two different systems?
mind you, blocking oscilators date way back before 1995.
it is true that the SEC does not work like a joule thief at all, and both are far from having the same root.
but what is the point of using precedance date ?

i can understand that you don't have time to teach peoples with lower electronic understanding.
but not that you have time to be rude with them.

simply stating "no, the SEC and the jt are different" would have been faster to type and would have been understood by everyone.
competent in the field or not.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 25, 2009, 01:36:36 AM
mind you, blocking oscilators date way back before 1995.
it is true that the SEC does not work like a joule thief at all, and both are far from having the same root.
but what is the point of using precedance date ?

i can understand that you don't have time to teach peoples with lower electronic understanding.
but not that you have time to be rude with them.

simply stating "no, the SEC and the jt are different" would have been faster to type and would have been understood by everyone.
competent in the field or not.



@TheNOP

Did you know that in the assembly language that a NOP is a do nothing command used to often fill a patch space or take up time uselessly? Humm.......
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: TheNOP on April 25, 2009, 01:42:44 AM
@TheNOP

Did you know that in the assembly language that a NOP is a do nothing command used to often fill a patch space or take up time uselessly? Humm.......
;D

i could talk to you about ASM more then you can think of.
to understand my choice of this username, you must look at why and when it is used.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AquariuZ on April 25, 2009, 02:25:10 AM
NOP = No OPeration

Brings back memories... Ah the 6088

8)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on April 25, 2009, 05:33:17 AM
Z80, 6502,6809 was my play toys in that order.

That was one instruction I tried to stay away from.

thay
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 25, 2009, 03:56:41 PM
@drstffler

Even though I have not learned the radio frequencies stuff yet. I am still on the logic circuits.
Will you sell me one of your SEC circuits?

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 25, 2009, 08:19:13 PM
@amigo
Read back through this thread and you will see that successful replications have consisted of the 06 transistor and asserting that many others will work without (knowing for sure) will only lead to many failures. So you are able to state this without quantitative results as a reference?

Hi Doc,

As you know I always state things from my own observation, and also add a clause that further and more observation is required by others, to deliver some quantitative results.

So no, these are just my short experimental observations and I do not have paperwork to prove other transistors work as good as MPSA06. I even agreed that MPSA06 works the best and is to be used, but I always keep a door open to other possibilities. :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 25, 2009, 08:34:55 PM
;D

i could talk to you about ASM more then you can think of.
to understand my choice of this username, you must look at why and when it is used.
@TheNOP
Oh, quite sure my 50 years of programming pale when compared to yours. The old ASR paper tape punch to read into a PDP8 must be child's play for you.

In short I doubt yo are as good at programming as you are at telling someone how to conduct ones self.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 25, 2009, 08:44:39 PM
Hi Doc,

As you know I always state things from my own observation, and also add a clause that further and more observation is required by others, to deliver some quantitative results.

So no, these are just my short experimental observations and I do not have paperwork to prove other transistors work as good as MPSA06. I even agreed that MPSA06 works the best and is to be used, but I always keep a door open to other possibilities. :)
@amigo
Accepted. Although the eye is not a very good tool for making theses types of decisions.

Additionally JLN (JL Naudin) did a Negistor with a 2N2222 ( http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cnr/negosc.htm ) and CTG Labs did some looking ( http://www.ctglabs.com/negistorv1.htm ) so the fact that many transistors are capable of this operation is not indicative of it being able to 'Cohere Energy' (SEC). I think the great replications of 'Lidmotor' show that something as simple as coil orientation can make the difference between SEC and somewhat conventional operation.

To identify a SEC Exciter from something convention and able to be simulated is to be able to see a CEC that is above one and this can only be done with correct environment and measurement methodology, of which few replicators have the required equipment. This then implies that one must be very careful in what is stated as working and not working in SEC mode.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 25, 2009, 08:47:16 PM
@drstffler

Even though I have not learned the radio frequencies stuff yet. I am still on the logic circuits.
Will you sell me one of your SEC circuits?

Jesus
@nievesoliveras
If you can have a credentialed University of College request one for you, yes I can supply one. I do not offer boards to the general public.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 25, 2009, 10:27:21 PM
@nievesoliveras
If you can have a credentialed University of College request one for you, yes I can supply one. I do not offer boards to the general public.

Thank you @drstiffler !

If you are not going to help the general public, what are you doing here?
God bless you!

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on April 25, 2009, 11:41:59 PM
Thank you @drstiffler !

If you are not going to help the general public, what are you doing here?
God bless you!

Jesus
@nievesoliveras
Well I am not 'My Brothers Keeper', maybe you should look at reaping what you sow?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 25, 2009, 11:47:04 PM
@nievesoliveras
Well I am not 'My Brothers Keeper', maybe you should look at reaping what you sow?


Thank you again !

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on April 26, 2009, 03:15:16 AM
@nievesoliveras

Why do you need Dr.Stiffler to sell you one of the SEC boards when you can build the circuit yourself?

He DID release the schematic with all the details along with so many videos describing it.

Many people, including yours truly, have already replicated the circuit on breadboards and protoboards, and it works "as advertised."

If you need the parts, PM me and I'll mail you some...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: TheNOP on April 26, 2009, 06:26:57 AM
Z80, 6502,6809 was my play toys in that order.

That was one instruction I tried to stay away from.
i can understand why, in most cases.
but in some other you can't avoid it.

@TheNOP
Oh, quite sure my 50 years of programming pale when compared to yours. The old ASR paper tape punch to read into a PDP8 must be child's play for you.
i know about paper tape punch tech, but that was invented before i started to learn life, so don't expect too much.

i started when cpm/cp and 8 inches disk were at the end of their life.

In short I doubt yo are as good at programming as you are at telling someone how to conduct ones self.
and this confirm what i wrote.

i don't care that you doubt or not.
that is you right.

Why do you need Dr.Stiffler to sell you one of the SEC boards when you can build the circuit yourself?
because, a unit build by the maker of the circuit, is more likely to work as claimed then one you are trying to build without knowing what you are doing ?

i am not insinuating anything here.
it is just a supposition.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 26, 2009, 11:54:32 PM
@nievesoliveras

Why do you need Dr.Stiffler to sell you one of the SEC boards when you can build the circuit yourself?

He DID release the schematic with all the details along with so many videos describing it.

Many people, including yours truly, have already replicated the circuit on breadboards and protoboards, and it works "as advertised."

If you need the parts, PM me and I'll mail you some...

Thank you @amigo !
We need more people like you on this forum.

Jesus
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gmeast on April 30, 2009, 06:41:07 PM
Hi Stefan and all,

I have noticed this thread has been alive for several years now.  My scanning has only revealed that important videos have been removed and I still can't find Dr Stiffler's fundamental circuit.  Can someone provide this or steer me in the correct direction, link ... anything.  I would not make a good detective ... sorry.

Thanks in advance,

Greg
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: powercat on April 30, 2009, 10:42:27 PM
Hi Stefan and all,

I have noticed this thread has been alive for several years now.  My scanning has only revealed that important videos have been removed and I still can't find Dr Stiffler's fundamental circuit.  Can someone provide this or steer me in the correct direction, link ... anything.  I would not make a good detective ... sorry.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

Hi gmeast
  I have one video if you PM me i will email it to you
 
cat
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on April 30, 2009, 11:28:13 PM
Hi Stefan and all,

I have noticed this thread has been alive for several years now.  My scanning has only revealed that important videos have been removed and I still can't find Dr Stiffler's fundamental circuit.  Can someone provide this or steer me in the correct direction, link ... anything.  I would not make a good detective ... sorry.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

Hello gmeast


There is a circuit for it on page 268.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: amigo on May 01, 2009, 01:45:50 AM
Hi Stefan and all,

I have noticed this thread has been alive for several years now.  My scanning has only revealed that important videos have been removed and I still can't find Dr Stiffler's fundamental circuit.  Can someone provide this or steer me in the correct direction, link ... anything.  I would not make a good detective ... sorry.

Thanks in advance,

Greg

Hi

Dr.Stiffler has all of his videos online on YT...

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MRH2O2&view=videos
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: canam101 on June 20, 2009, 09:32:10 PM
Am I missing something? Is anybody still working on it? Has the discussion moved to another forum?

Judging by Stiffler's claims at the start, I thought by now that the circuit would be powering thousands of homes. Surely Stiffler hasn't dropped the project?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tak22 on June 21, 2009, 01:21:33 AM
Yes he exited stage right ....

But you can find him over at  http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air.html)

tak
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on July 13, 2009, 09:15:21 AM
YouTube - Worlds FIRST Wireless Electrolyzer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNv-642DYXE)

nice work doc. loved the MIB comment. i'll have to dig out the ol' SEC.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on August 08, 2009, 04:54:15 PM
The Doc made a new SEC Exiter circuit.
And this one is another really winner.

Here is the circuit for it with insructions on consruction.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/17695261/Wireless-or-OneWire-Energy-Transmission-Construction-Guide

Here is a couple videos of his new circuit running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM3UqkXMZEA&feature=channel_page

And in this video I have a second reciever coil connected to an earth ground and lighting 24 leds.
Notice in the video the second coil did not take any more current or diminish the light out put from the first reciever coil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bp5ihJH1Yrg&feature=channel_page


Thank You Dr Stiffler for another Great circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Thaelin on August 08, 2009, 06:48:33 PM
   Good ole Humble Tx. Built a many houses in that town. 

                   :D

thay
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on September 29, 2009, 09:04:41 AM
Looking at a Self Runner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--aAK3vpjHw
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 09, 2009, 09:33:35 PM
Looking at a Self Runner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--aAK3vpjHw

@All

The latest vid's on the wireless work with SEC Exciters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0imiI76YNY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQA5GMwZn6E
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: powercat on November 14, 2009, 05:13:35 PM
Hi Doc
Very quiet around here, anyway this guy is very busy on YouTube and many videos
SEC exciter.Torroid hybrid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XI4N-HrPm4
cat
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 14, 2009, 05:17:52 PM
Hi Doc
Very quiet around here, anyway this guy is very busy on YouTube and many videos
SEC exciter.Torroid hybrid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XI4N-HrPm4
cat
the doc quit here long ago, not quite sure why he made this latest cameo appearance. furthermore, it appears he has quit his new abode as well. see this post by the doc...
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-54.html#post74360
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gadgetmall on November 14, 2009, 05:46:37 PM
for anyone intrested you can now buy completed Sec 18-1 from his site for 25.95 shipping included  USA and a few dollars more for international . Not advertizing for him its just information only .
Also i see he up and runned from energetic forum like he did here .

gadget
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: sparks on November 15, 2009, 05:03:46 PM
   From the last videos it appears that Dr.Stifler is into power transmission using Tesla coils.  I was wondering if there was some kind of capacitive coupling between a Tesla primary tank and the secondary tank.  As an inductor has an empressed emf on either end of a coil we see that the current lags the impressed voltage.  The inductance of a coil is determined by it's wettable surface.  In a copper coil this is where we find most free electrons.  Electrons do have mass so we must assume that there is a phase shift due to the inertia of the electrons.  Once accelerated even though the emf has reached zero on the inputs to the inductor the current continues to flow. Again we see inertia in play.   A capacitor is capable of recovering the input power in the form of emf as it converts the inertia of the electron mass back into a static field or force.  When tuned the primary input oscilates between at rest energy in the capacitor to kinetic energy in the inductor.  A single input therefore is duplicated many times with the resistance of the circuit dampening the waves.  Until the whole thing rings down to noise levels.  If there is any input or gain from the field either from mutual inductance where energy enters the system and aids the acceleration of the electron mass or from capaitance coupling to an electric field the oscillations do not ring down they ring up.  The amplitude of the oscillations rising until radiation from the system is a must as the current capacity of the conductors results in heat radiation or the k of the dielectric in the capacitor is surpassed.  In other words the copper melts or the capacitor shorts.  If a Tesla secondary eliminates the resistance associated with lumped components and the resonance is achieved within the secondary itself there is very little resistance to dampen the oscillations.  In the magnifying transmitter this system is coupled to the inductance of the Earth and the capacitance of the atmosphere.  Parasitic capacitance and mutual inductance inputted to the system.  One smart guy just expanding his oscillating system with gain from thin air and dense Earth.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on November 15, 2009, 05:19:30 PM
I wander, what is currently going on with this "SEC", Doc "cold electricity" Stiffler's circuit?

For what is known, there are several "YT proof" videos, but still no a 3rd party validations?

Sounds like a typical "OU" conceptual error....  Which, usually turns out to be just a measurement error.

Surely, MiBs are playing the major role here.
it's wonder, not wander.

why don't you have a look at energeticforum for 3rd party validations. or build your own validation, it should be no problem for an EE with 20+ years experience like yourself... ::)

sounds like an assumption.

sounds like another assumption, or red herring logical fallacy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 15, 2009, 05:29:08 PM
I have banned user Spinner now from posting and he is on read only now
for all his continuing negative comments
as he was already warned several times.

Regards, Stefan.(admin)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 16, 2009, 01:59:48 AM
for anyone intrested you can now buy completed Sec 18-1 from his site for 25.95 shipping included  USA and a few dollars more for international . Not advertizing for him its just information only .
Also i see he up and runned from energetic forum like he did here .

gadget

Al:

Thanks for the heads up.  I just ordered the SEC-18-1 with the optional L3 coil.  I can't wait to start learning about it and begin experimentation.  I really like what Lidmotor and Jonnydavro are doing with the SEC devices.  This should be fun.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gadgetmall on November 16, 2009, 03:53:54 AM
Hi Pirate ! . Your Welcome . It is a neat little oscillator . I do respect Mr. Stiffler and thank him for sharing his circuits with us . Yes when you get one L3 can be many forms . It can be a coil  a torroid winding OR a straight piece if wire . I believe its cut to a certain Frequency  exactly like a tuned antenna on a Ham or Cb radio . There is also 1/4 wave 1/2 wave and full wave . I have the calculations some where and i am sure they are on The AARl Amature radio site.  What L3 is looks to be a 1/4 wave and  so this coil can be very much more if its length is calculated as a full wave antenna . No telling how far the excess Rf will go . i might order one myself .

Gadget
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 18, 2009, 10:01:09 PM
for anyone intrested you can now buy completed Sec 18-1 from his site for 25.95 shipping included  USA and a few dollars more for international . Not advertizing for him its just information only .
Also i see he up and runned from energetic forum like he did here .

gadget

@gadgetmall

How can you sleep at night? What allows you to say I (ran) from anywhere? I left OU.com and yes I have left EGF because of Dysfunctional BS, just like your far from factual statement than I (up and runned).

Ever wondered what facts and civility could offer??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: FatBird on November 18, 2009, 10:12:05 PM
@ Stefan:  I have banned user Spinner now from posting and he is on read only now for all his continuing negative comments as he was already warned several times.

Regards, Stefan.(admin)

==================================================

Stefan, Thank You for doing that.  There are SOOOOO MANY Negative Guys on O/U that DISCOURAGES those of us that are trying to help.

Keep up the Good Work sir.


.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 19, 2009, 10:19:02 PM
Here is a short video using two rechargeable 9v batteries to run the exiter's to charge a big 12v battery.

The negative side of the run battery is going to the positive side of the cap.
Then the negative side of the cap is going to the negative on the exiter's.

Both exiter's the L3 coil is replaced with an AV plug that is also going to the cap.

Then the power from the cap is going through a diode to the charge battery.

After around an hour of running the charge battery went from 12.0v to 12.54v.


http://www.youtube.com/user/GBluer#p/a/u/0/BLNGc7pCqwk
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 19, 2009, 11:30:44 PM
Slayer:

Very nicely done.  Do you think that set-up will take the 9 volt batteries down to 0 or near 0 charge?

Very cool.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stprue on November 20, 2009, 12:02:16 AM
@gadgetmall

How can you sleep at night? What allows you to say I (ran) from anywhere? I left OU.com and yes I have left EGF because of Dysfunctional BS, just like your far from factual statement than I (up and runned).

Ever wondered what facts and civility could offer??

Just remember that not all of us are ee or even have experience in electronics.  Some of us like myself do this as a heavily involved hobby.  So when I ask a stupid question be nice and ansewer it as my college major was CJ and I'm not trying to be an ass! 

P.S. Your work is awesome  ;D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 20, 2009, 12:24:24 AM
Slayer:

Very nicely done.  Do you think that set-up will take the 9 volt batteries down to 0 or near 0 charge?

Very cool.

Bill

Maybe Bill, But it will take a long long time.

As the cap voltage comes close to the run battery voltage the current drops to all most nothing.

Right now it's down in the micro amps.As the cap voltage is around 14v around the same as the run batteries.

Thats why I'm using two 9v batteries so the cap voltage will rise close to the run battery voltage when the exiters are running.

Then I'm using the two AV plugs off the exiters and sending that back to the cap also.

Right now the way the caps in series with exiter negative the cap will fill to over half the run battery voltage.
And the AV plugs just add to it.To bring the voltage way up.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 20, 2009, 03:09:35 PM
Here is the circuit I was using in the last video.

It will work better with bigger run batteries.

But I wanted to see if I could charge a big battery with two small batteries.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 20, 2009, 03:28:14 PM
Here is a short video using two rechargeable 9v batteries to run the exiter's to charge a big 12v battery.

The negative side of the run battery is going to the positive side of the cap.
Then the negative side of the cap is going to the negative on the exiter's.

Both exiter's the L3 coil is replaced with an AV plug that is also going to the cap.

Then the power from the cap is going through a diode to the charge battery.

After around an hour of running the charge battery went from 12.0v to 12.54v.


http://www.youtube.com/user/GBluer#p/a/u/0/BLNGc7pCqwk (http://www.youtube.com/user/GBluer#p/a/u/0/BLNGc7pCqwk)

Looks interesting. If you can take the big battery voltage measurements after it has been resting unused for at  least several hours and still show an increase in voltage, then that's amazing. Let me know if that's possible, then I'd love to replicate it.

IOW, let big battery sit unconnected for at least several hours, measure it's voltage, then connect your circuit and charge the big battery, then disconnect big battery & let it sit unconnected for at least several hours, then measure it's voltage.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 20, 2009, 03:52:20 PM
Also temperature makes a difference in battery voltage. If you can, write down the temperature. The adjustment is -0.022V/°C. So if the temperature changes, then use that equation to get the adjusted voltage so you can compare it to your 1st voltage measurement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_battery)
The open circuit voltage, is measured when the engine is off and no loads are connected. It can be approximately related to the charge of the battery by:
Open Circuit Voltage (12 V)     Open Circuit Voltage (6 V)     Approximate charge     Relative acid density
12.65 V     6.3 V     100%     1.265 g/cm3
12.45 V     6.2 V     75%     1.225 g/cm3
12.24 V     6.1 V     50%     1.190 g/cm3
12.06 V     6.0 V     25%     1.155 g/cm3
11.89 V     6.0 V     0%     1.120 g/cm3

Open circuit voltage is also affected by temperature, and the specific gravity of the electrolyte at full charge.

The following is common for a six-cell automotive lead-acid battery at room temperature:

    * Quiescent (open-circuit) voltage at full charge: 12.6 V
    * Unloading-end: 11.8 V
    * Charge with 13.2–14.4 V
    * Gassing voltage: 14.4 V
    * Continuous-preservation charge with max. 13.2 V
    * After full charge the terminal voltage will drop quickly to 13.2 V and then slowly to 12.6 V
    * Wait at least 12 hours after charging to measure open circuit voltage, the resting time allows surface charge to dissipate and enables a more accurate reading.
    * All voltages are at 20 °C, and must be adjusted -0.022V/°C for temperature changes.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 20, 2009, 03:59:46 PM
Looks interesting. If you can take the big battery voltage measurements after it has been resting unused for at  least several hours and still show an increase in voltage, then that's amazing. Let me know if that's possible, then I'd love to replicate it.

IOW, let big battery sit unconnected for at least several hours, measure it's voltage, then connect your circuit and charge the big battery, then disconnect big battery & let it sit unconnected for at least several hours, then measure it's voltage.

Regards,
Paul


Hello Paul.

I did let it sit all night and checked the voltage in the morning.

The voltage did drop a little in the charge battery.

It dropped from 12.55 to 12.32 after sitting all night.

I then drained the battery and recharged it.
This time I used a 12v in series with a 9v for the run batteries.

It charged so fast the charge battery went up 12.80 in no time.
The run battery was a 12v @ 12.24 the 9v was @ 9.01v

The 12v run battery went down to 12.20v then after sitting recovered all it's power back to 12.24v

The charge battery went down from 12.80 to 12.61 after sitting two hours.
But is now holding at 12.61






Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 20, 2009, 04:19:03 PM

Hello Paul.

I did let it sit all night and checked the voltage in the morning.

The voltage did drop a little in the charge battery.

It dropped from 12.55 to 12.32 after sitting all night.

I then drained the battery and recharged it.
This time I used a 12v in series with a 9v for the run batteries.

It charged so fast the charge battery went up 12.80 in no time.
The run battery was a 12v @ 12.24 the 9v was @ 9.01v

The 12v run battery went down to 12.20v then after sitting recovered all it's power back to 12.24v

The charge battery went down from 12.80 to 12.61 after sitting two hours.
But is now holding at 12.61

That's amazing. I mean, even 12.32V because it started at 12.0V, right? If someone was to replicate one of these circuits, can you point out the most efficient one, perhaps yours or one of Dr.Stiffler?

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 20, 2009, 04:29:19 PM
That's amazing. I mean, even 12.32V because it started at 12.0V, right? If someone was to replicate one of these circuits, can you point out the most efficient one, perhaps yours or one of Dr.Stiffler?

Paul

Thanks Paul.

The circuit I'm using is the Sec 15.It can be found on this page.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.msg118617#msg118617

But I have two Sec's on the same board I'm using.
Here is a video of the two sec's I'm using.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoAqnq5TcHU

For the charger circuit I removed the L3 coils and put an AV plug in it's place.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 20, 2009, 04:55:56 PM
Thanks for sharing your videos. What type of rechargeable 9V batteries are those, NiCd, NiMH, Lithium?

I have some ferrite rods about that size. Do you know if they're 125 or 800 permeability?

Anyhow, if you don't mind, sometime this or next week I'll build one of your circuits. It would be worth it just for the cool wireless effects alone.  :)

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 20, 2009, 08:32:27 PM
Thanks for sharing your videos. What type of rechargeable 9V batteries are those, NiCd, NiMH, Lithium?

I have some ferrite rods about that size. Do you know if they're 125 or 800 permeability?

Anyhow, if you don't mind, sometime this or next week I'll build one of your circuits. It would be worth it just for the cool wireless effects alone.  :)

Regards,
Paul

The 9v rechargeable battery I'm using should be a NiMH.

To be honest it's all in chines.But it should be NiMH battery.

The ferrite rod I'm using is a choke from radio shack.
The part #  273-0102

You just have to cut the wires off it and clean it up a little.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 20, 2009, 09:24:35 PM
Something some may find interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAOnhpd5FR0
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 20, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
Hi slayer007,

Could I talk you into posting the circuit in this video of yours,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk

I would like to build that exact circuit.

Thanks!
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 20, 2009, 11:50:30 PM
Hi slayer007,

Could I talk you into posting the circuit in this video of yours,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk

I would like to build that exact circuit.

Thanks!
Paul


The circuit for the SEC 15 can be found on this page.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.msg118617#msg118617

The circuit I'm using I did not use the whole filter shown in the circuit.

I just used two ferrite beads and one .01uf cap for the filter.

It will also work just fine without the filter.

Then I just have two SEC 15's on the board.With the L2 coil wound togeather like in the other video I posted.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 20, 2009, 11:56:40 PM
Is there anyway you can draw the circuit used in that particular video? If it's easier, maybe you could draw the circuit on paper, video it, and then upload the video at youtube. Whatever's easier. It would help a lot of people! In that circuit it seems like you have the large capacitor, source batteries, and charging batteries connected differently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk)

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 21, 2009, 12:19:26 AM
Is there anyway you can draw the circuit used in that particular video? If it's easier, maybe you could draw the circuit on paper, video it, and then upload the video at youtube. Whatever's easier. It would help a lot of people! In that circuit it seems like you have the large capacitor, source batteries, and charging batteries connected differently.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLNGc7pCqwk)

Thanks,
Paul


The coil that is # Lb is the variable inductor.(This is also how you adjust the SEC by moving the ferrite in and out of the coil)The coil is wound around the ferrite rod 20 turns.
Ferrite rod part # 273-0102 from radioshack.

The coil L1 I wound 22 turns around 1/2 pipe then just bunched it togeather and taped it.

For L2 it would help to have a LC meter.But if you don't I would try around 35 turns around a 1/2 pcv pipe.
For L2 you can experiment with differant coil setups and sizes.

I found 22uh to 60uh worked very well.Thats if you have an LC meter to check the coils.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 12:31:35 AM
Thanks, but there are unknowns in that video. In video it says "positive from run batteries is going right through the exciter. Negative side of the run batteries is going to the positive side of this big capacitor, and the negative side (of the big capacitor) is going back to the exciter. Both exciters the L3 coil is gone. I have ----- plug in place. That's running back to the capacitor (big capacitor), and going to the charge battery (large car battery)."

To be honest, regarding the routes of all the batteries & large cap is all unclear. Actually it's all unclear.  :(   A drawn circuit should clarify.

Thanks if you can clarify.

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 21, 2009, 01:03:41 AM
Thanks, but there are unknowns in that video. In video it says "positive from run batteries is going right through the exciter. Negative side of the run batteries is going to the positive side of this big capacitor, and the negative side (of the big capacitor) is going back to the exciter. Both exciters the L3 coil is gone. I have ----- plug in place. That's running back to the capacitor (big capacitor), and going to the charge battery (large car battery)."

To be honest, regarding the routes of all the batteries & large cap is all unclear. Actually it's all unclear.  :(   A drawn circuit should clarify.

Thanks if you can clarify.

Paul


Paul there is one on the next page back.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3457.2730

Sorry about the coil labeling at the E forum Dr Stiffler relabled the coils in his circuits.
So in my video I did the same labeling as the Dr.
So Lb would be L1.
L1 would be L2
And L2 is L3.


Lol, Sorry I hope that helps ::)
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 02:04:40 AM
That helps. You wrote that L1 has 22 turns around 1/2 pipe. Also you wrote L2 has 35 turns around a 1/2 pcv pipe and can range from 22uh to 60uh. So I'll know which ones you're talking about, can you point out what inductor A, B, and C are relative to L1, L2, or Lb?

http://globalfreeenergy.info/imgs/slayer007-circuit-q1.gif (http://globalfreeenergy.info/imgs/slayer007-circuit-q1.gif)

Thanks for the help!
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 21, 2009, 02:58:15 AM
That helps. You wrote that L1 has 22 turns around 1/2 pipe. Also you wrote L2 has 35 turns around a 1/2 pcv pipe and can range from 22uh to 60uh. So I'll know which ones you're talking about, can you point out what inductor A, B, and C are relative to L1, L2, or Lb?

http://globalfreeenergy.info/imgs/slayer007-circuit-q1.gif (http://globalfreeenergy.info/imgs/slayer007-circuit-q1.gif)

Thanks for the help!
Paul

C is a ferrite bead its part of the filter.

B is L1

A is L2

L3 is missing.It would be on the collector of the transistor.

An AV plug is there in it's place.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gadgetmall on November 21, 2009, 05:03:31 PM
@gadgetmall

How can you sleep at night? What allows you to say I (ran) from anywhere? I left OU.com and yes I have left EGF because of Dysfunctional BS, just like your far from factual statement than I (up and runned).

Ever wondered what facts and civility could offer??
Dr. Stiffler . please Don't get mad at me. I apologize and did not mean to offend you . I have a different perspective on things that's all . Sometime My mouth gets in the way . I did flatter  you Sir . You have an interesting device and i like it . And so i Am again Sorry . Please accept My Apology  . I will try to remain Silent and ask My questions from someone else . I don't type or think in syntax because i am not a programmed computer :) I am Curious and extremely interested in powering Circuits from the lowest possible Voltage and MA's . I would like to power your circuit from a 1 volt battery if its possible to have any gain . I have built the first AA powered nichrome wire heater from a joule thief .It charges a Large 650 farad 2.7 volt capacitor up to full capacity and leaves 3500 AMPS to do work . while the AA battery only drops a measly 5 1000's of a volt and powering 1 watt worth of LEDS.  I Would like to see efficiency from your circuit do the same and will attempt to charge one with it .
And to answer your first question . After being a Dad and mom to a 7 year old Girl ,Inventor ,Experimenter,grandfather to 4  i say the lords prayer and Sleep very Well  .
And Question 2. What "Allows"me to say you ran . Up and run in a south "syntax" IS you left . .



Kind  Regards
Thanks

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 05:26:36 PM
slayer007,

On numerous times I've asked you a particular question, which you have ignored. And then I asked the question in a PM. You've logged in over 1/2 dozen times, no reply. Please tell me if you don't want anyone verifying your claim of two dead 9V batteries (~ 8V each) charging a 80 AH car battery. That is a huge claim that if true could be the smoking gun.

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 05:32:51 PM
I'll try my best to make out slayer007 entire circuit, and the results of this replication will be posted at my blog site,

http://globalfreeenergy.info (http://globalfreeenergy.info)

I'm posting the above url so people can see the end results on the slayer007 replication because the "free energy" community is a funny thing in that the people who seek the truth often get banned because one often must eventually be blunt if they are to try and get the details.

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gadgetmall on November 21, 2009, 05:43:19 PM
slayer007,

On numerous times I've asked you a particular question, which you have ignored. And then I asked the question in a PM. You've logged in over 1/2 dozen times, no reply. Please tell me if you don't want anyone verifying your claim of two dead 9V batteries (~ 8V each) charging a 80 AH car battery. That is a huge claim that if true could be the smoking gun.

Thanks,
Paul
Hi Paul .Its very possible he is seeing gain . I have demonstrated over the unity of a primary source in the Jule thief thread . from an aa battery 2500mah i have charged an ultracapacitor to full capacity with only a few microvolts of loss from the battery 1.4 volt battery . I have stored 3500 AMPS that burn wire and produce HEAT while producing light at the same time . this Amperage is not cold electricity . The worlds first aa battery nichrome heater / light schematic is on page  997 thru 1002 and there is an ongoing experiment . this is easily replicated and you can build one in about 5 minutes   . i do not own an ampmeter to measure the output amps on the ultracapacitor however if you read the last 8 or so pages i can brightly burn  nichrome coils  while lighting up two .5 watt 5 chip leds . i welcome replications as it is easy to do.

Gadget
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 06:05:45 PM
Hi Paul .Its very possible he is seeing gain . I have demonstrated over the unity of a primary source in the Jule thief thread . from an aa battery 2500mah i have charger an ultracapacitor to full capacity with only a few microvolts of loss from the battery 1.4 volt battery . I have stored 3500 AMPS that burn wire and produce HEAT while producing light at the same time . this Amperage is not cold electricity . The worlds first aa battery nichrome heater / light schematic is on page  997 thru 1002 and there is an ongoing experiment . this is easily replicated and you can build one it about 5 minutes

Hi gadgetmall,

Slayer007 claim seems very clear. Both of his rechargeable 9V NiMH 250mAH batteries is just over 8V, which means they are considered dead, very low amount of energy left. His 80 AH car battery started at 12V, and ended at over 12.35V. Such a 12V battery at 12V is only ~ 16% charged. The 12V car battery at 12.35V is ~ 62% charged. That's a difference of 46%, which for a 80AH battery comes to 80 amps * 3600 seconds * 0.46 = 132480 joules. Even if both of his 250mAH batteries were fully charged, they would have 2 * 0.25 amps * 3600 = 1800 joules, but his batteries were dead and no where near 1800 joules.

So IMO slayer007 either gave wrong information, or it's the smoking gun.

Regarding your experiment, wow that sounds very interesting. A 2500mAH battery fully charged a "ultracapacitor" without much loss from the 2500mAH battery? I'll take a look through your posts to find the details, or if you already have a link then that's greatly appreciated!

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gadgetmall on November 21, 2009, 06:23:47 PM
Hi gadgetmall,

Slayer007 claim seems very clear. Both of his rechargeable 9V NiMH 250mAH batteries is just over 8V, which means they are considered dead, very low amount of energy left. His 80 AH car battery started at 12V, and ended at over 12.35V. Such a 12V battery at 12V is only ~ 16% charged. The 12V car battery at 12.35V is ~ 62% charged. That's a difference of 46%, which for a 80AH battery comes to 80 amps * 3600 seconds * 0.46 = 132480 joules. Even if both of his 250mAH batteries were fully charged, they would have 2 * 0.25 amps * 3600 = 1800 joules, but his batteries were dead and no where near 1800 joules.

So IMO slayer007 either gave wrong information, or it's the smoking gun.

Regarding your experiment, wow that sounds very interesting. A 2500mAH battery fully charged a "ultracapacitor" without much loss from the 2500mAH battery? I'll take a look through your posts to find the details, or if you already have a link then that's greatly appreciated!

Paul
I posted an updated Schematic Showing some how to connect n ampmeter without interrupting the circuit here http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.new#new

Gadget
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 06:32:57 PM
Gadget, great, we can talk about your experiment in that thread. I just posted there.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 21, 2009, 08:19:39 PM
Slayer007 has replied to my PM, and says he'll draw the car battery charging circuit in its entirety tonight. Looking forward to it, as I've already spent over 4 hours trying to figure out the details!  :)

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 22, 2009, 03:24:25 AM
Slayer007 has replied to my PM, and says he'll draw the car battery charging circuit in its entirety tonight. Looking forward to it, as I've already spent over 4 hours trying to figure out the details!  :)

Paul

Here is the circuit I was using in the video.

I'm using two Sec's on the same board with the L2 coils wound around each other.
The second one would be added to the Big cap like the first in the circuit.

You can try it with just one and you should see similar results.

The L1 coil is the one with the ferrite rod for tunning the sec.(20 turns 22ga.)
L2 is 22turns 22 ga. around a 1/2 inch pipe then taken off and bunched togeather and taped.
The transistor is a MPSA06.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 22, 2009, 03:08:28 PM
Thanks for the drawing slayer007! If you don't mind I rotated your drawing & made it sharper. Since I'll first build your circuit in Spice, I may as well post that circuit drawing in my next post.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 22, 2009, 03:27:40 PM
Here's the circuit. Please let me know if there's an error! There might be an error with C2 since that part is a bit iffy in your drawing.

Thanks very much!
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stprue on November 22, 2009, 03:51:59 PM
Looks like a nice simple setup.  Very impressive!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 22, 2009, 04:11:12 PM
Here's the circuit. Please let me know if there's an error! There might be an error with C2 since that part is a bit iffy in your drawing.

Thanks very much!
Paul

D3 is a 1N5399 diode.

Sorry I forgot to label it in the circuit.

It can be substituted for a differant a value but not a 1N4148
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: allcanadian on November 22, 2009, 04:12:30 PM
@Paul
Quote:
"Here's the circuit. Please let me know if there's an error! There might be an error with C2 since that part is a bit iffy in your drawing."

Yes there is an error on the emitter of Q1 to C2, here is the corrected diagram.

Maybe I am missing something but there would seem to be a path of lesser resistance through V1(+)-L4-L2-D1-L3-V1(-), in fact it could be considered a short circuit.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 22, 2009, 04:19:59 PM
No problem! I changed it. I don't know how the forum is here, so you might have to refresh your browser cache.

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 22, 2009, 04:26:07 PM
@Paul
Quote:
"Here's the circuit. Please let me know if there's an error! There might be an error with C2 since that part is a bit iffy in your drawing."

Yes there is an error on the emitter of Q1 to C2, here is the corrected diagram.

Thanks, nice catch! It's now updated. BTW you forgot to add the blue square to make it a connection.  ;)

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on November 22, 2009, 04:37:22 PM
Hi Folks,

I understand this corrected circuit already covers the circuit Dr Stiffler built and I wonder how the negative pole of the 18V supply voltage gets to the emitter of the Q1 transistor? 
In some of Dr Stiffler's earlier than this SEC versions, the negative polarity line of the supply voltage went directly to the emitter (via a choke coil) with a piece of wire and this seems to be missing here.  I do not mean this is needed here, maybe that is how Dr Stiffler built it indeed, but I find it unusual.

Thanks for any explanation in advance.

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 22, 2009, 04:52:10 PM
Hi Folks,

I understand this corrected circuit already covers the circuit Dr Stiffler built and I wonder how the negative pole of the 18V supply voltage gets to the emitter of the Q1 transistor? 
In some of Dr Stiffler's earlier than this SEC versions, the negative polarity line of the supply voltage went directly to the emitter (via a choke coil) with a piece of wire and this seems to be missing here.  I do not mean this is needed here, maybe that is how Dr Stiffler built it indeed, but I find it unusual.

Thanks for any explanation in advance.

rgds, Gyula


It's still there it's just going through the big cap first.
This way the cap will charge just from the Sec running.

And the AV plugs help to top it off.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on November 23, 2009, 02:36:05 PM
Sorry there was an error in the C2 cap polarity.

Also C2 was moved to the other side of the filter.

Transistor= MPSA06
F1= Ferrite beads 65 ohm @ 100 MHz
C1= .01 cap.
C2= 4400 uf cap.
C3= 470 pf cap.
R1= 1 Meg. resistor
L1= 2-20 uh variable inductor with ferrite rod for tunning.
L2= 22 uh coil
D1= 1N4148 diode
D2= 1N5399 diode
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 23, 2009, 03:53:17 PM

It's still there it's just going through the big cap first.
This way the cap will charge just from the Sec running.

And the AV plugs help to top it off.

@All

What (slayer007) is working with here is a variation of the ESEC circuits and the simplest of which I have enclosed a diagram. I have not build what (slayer007) is talking about, although I do have an original circuit with some similar aspects, although I use an isolation capacitor from the collector for one thing.

In the included circuit the diode, 1M resistor and capacitor on the base is needed to restart the Exciter if it is stopped after the Pwr Cap exceeds 1/5 of the supply voltage. Without these parts the Exciter will not start again unless the pwr cap is discharged. The power cap will only charge to the point where the BE(V) of the transistor can no longer be met. In practice the circuit shown will charge the pwr cap to ~2/3 Vcc.

I think (slayer007) has ued this basic circuit an combined the early circuits and left out the isolation cap.

Anyway I can not comment on his work as I do not know if it will or will not work. I just wanted to get a basic circuit up here that works as a charge circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 05:06:25 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

Thanks very much for the circuit! It seems interesting, and will add it to my build list.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 23, 2009, 05:19:14 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

Thanks very much for the circuit! It seems interesting, and will add it to my build list.

Regards,
Paul

Mr. Lowrance

Some of the confusion may have entered the diagrams as I think (Slayer007) may have started with this early ESEC. This particular circuit was latter refined and is maybe a starting place for those that have interest, although the ESEC's have moved forward from this.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kator01 on November 23, 2009, 06:03:19 PM
Hi gadgetmall,

you are claiming that you have shown overunity with charging you 650 F Supercap.
What I miss here is a basic measurement of the true capacitance of this "650 F"- Cap.
Tolerance might be +-30 %.

Have you done exact measurements before you started this experiment ?

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Kator01 on November 23, 2009, 06:16:51 PM
Hi gadgetmall,

here you can see how to measure your supercap.

Regards

Kator01
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 23, 2009, 06:38:20 PM
Hi gadgetmall,

here you can see how to measure your supercap.

Regards

Kator01

@Kator01 @All

I'm not back to get into discussions or start the usual fireline as last time, I may pop in no and them when it looks like a bit of input may help.

And so is the case with Super Caps. Measuring the time constant of Super Caps is a waste of ones time, it does not provide accurate information.

I have included a link to a paper I did on Boost Caps and the paper contains references to other papers and manufactures on how a Super Cap must be tested. If not done properly many different values can be determined from the same cap under test.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: powercat on November 23, 2009, 06:40:34 PM
Kator01
gadget is not posting in this thread, as this is the circuit from Dr.Stiffler thread.
BTW gadget is using an ultra-cap not a super.
cat
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 06:57:03 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

You definitely know you stuff, which is refreshing to see at this forum. May I ask what were the power ratings of the 3 resistors used in capacitance measuring experiments.

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 23, 2009, 07:00:42 PM
Kator01
gadget is not posting in this thread, as this is the circuit from Dr.Stiffler thread.
BTW gadget is using an ultra-cap not a super.
cat

@Powercat

FYI

http://www.hpcwire.com/industry/manufacturing/Maxwell-Technologies-ANSYS-Release-Ultracapacitor-Components-Library-52453812.html

I think you will find that a SuperCap and UltraCap are separated only by Trade Name
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 23, 2009, 07:07:36 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

You definitely know you stuff, which is refreshing to see at this forum. May I ask what were the power ratings of the 3 resistors used in capacitance measuring experiments.

Paul

Mr. Lowrance

All the resistors are 1/4W and can be 1/8W. If you wanted to all the resistors (for test exploration only) can be removed after the Exciter starts oscillation. The 1M resistor is only needed to start oscillation at which point the transistor goes into a -R operational mode and does not require the DC bias offered by the base resistor.

This is not a conventional oscillator and (alpha) (gain) is not provided via the normals pathways. I keep correcting people on the assumption that this is a Collpits and even had one fellow fight that it was an Armstrong design. If one needs something conventional to feel good about the design is closest to the Clapp Oscillator. Although as with all my Exciters this is a -R Ultra Bandwidth Bifurcating Oscillator.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 07:09:43 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

Are you referring to your capacitance measuring experiments,

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper (http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper)

Your paper mentions three load resistors. I was wondering what the power wattage rating was on the resistors.

Thanks,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 23, 2009, 07:18:44 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

Are you referring to your capacitance measuring experiments,

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper (http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper)

Your paper mentions three load resistors. I was wondering what the power wattage rating was on the resistors.

Thanks,
Paul

I'm sorry I thought you were asking about the circuit I last posted for the (slayer007) direction.

The load used on the boost cap testing was an electronic load TekPower 3710A and it is good for 150W and is fully computer controlled as it was in the testing.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 07:24:23 PM
Okay, looks like good measurements. I thought maybe the load was heating, and thus changing the load resistance, but it seems fine. It will be interesting to see how much capacitance my 650F Maxwell booscap has, when it arrives.

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 07:32:29 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

Again regarding the cap measurements, I'm wondering how your caps would perform if the load was higher resistance. I have no idea about such cap technology, but maybe the cap *efficiency* is far higher at lower levels of current. Obviously the caps are rated at higher current levels then what you tested, but I'm wondering if their efficiency varies a lot with the current.

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 23, 2009, 09:26:59 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

Again regarding the cap measurements, I'm wondering how your caps would perform if the load was higher resistance. I have no idea about such cap technology, but maybe the cap *efficiency* is far higher at lower levels of current. Obviously the caps are rated at higher current levels then what you tested, but I'm wondering if their efficiency varies a lot with the current.

Paul

Mr. Lowrance

I would suggest you look into some of the references I have in the paper. Resistance will indeed play a roll in the measured capacity. This is why I did the study, I had a large disagreement with a boost cap supplier. The product was advertised as 3F and was stated to supply +200 amperes of boost for the bass component of auto sound systems, although when I told them their cap was no where near 3F they stated I need to use a 350+ ohm resistor to see the true value. Wait a minute, something is wrong here, right, +200J through 350+ ohms when cap is charged to 13.6V, bells go off here....

Found the study very interesting as well as the strange things one sees because the larger caps are really smaller caps in a series/parallel arrangement. Some very strange artifacts can be found.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 09:43:20 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

The manufacturer might be saying that the typical bcap is 3F, and is *capable* of such high current, but the cap might be inefficient at high current. If it is, then you can't get all of the cap energy into the load unless you use low current tests. I'm not siding with the manufacturer, and I'm not saying that's the way their caps are, but I know the caps will most likely be more efficient at 40mA versus 2000mA. This might be an inherent effect of such super/ultra capacitors. The question is, if one did the experiments at say 40mA, then would it amount to 3F.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 23, 2009, 09:58:42 PM
Dr. Stiffler,

The manufacturer might be saying that the typical bcap is 3F, and is *capable* of such high current, but the cap might be inefficient at high current. If it is, then you can't get all of the cap energy into the load unless you use low current tests. I'm not siding with the manufacturer, and I'm not saying that's the way their caps are, but I know the caps will most likely be more efficient at 40mA versus 2000mA. This might be an inherant effect of such super/ultra capacitors. The question is, if one did the experiments at say 40mA, then would it amount to 3F.

Regards,
Paul

@Mr. Lowrance

Very well stated and very close to complete. This is why when anyone says they have reached OU with Ultra/Super Cap charging one must take it with a grain of salt, unless the cap has been properly analyzed and charted, otherwise charge and discharge rate (R) will affect what the capacity is that is realized.

Very good.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 23, 2009, 10:05:34 PM
Thanks Dr. Stiffler. Nice work you've done, and looking forward to more of your research & circuits!

This all reminds me of a favorite quote,

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
Albert Einstein
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 24, 2009, 08:09:40 PM
@Kator01 @All

I'm not back to get into discussions or start the usual fireline as last time, I may pop in no and them when it looks like a bit of input may help.

And so is the case with Super Caps. Measuring the time constant of Super Caps is a waste of ones time, it does not provide accurate information.

I have included a link to a paper I did on Boost Caps and the paper contains references to other papers and manufactures on how a Super Cap must be tested. If not done properly many different values can be determined from the same cap under test.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12389577/Auto-Audio-Boost-Capacitor-Test-Paper

Hi Dr.Stiffler,
had a quick look at your measurements.

Well, you used only 5 and 10 ohms load resistors to do this.

What would come out of this test, if you would use
100 Ohm and 1000 ohm load resistors ?

Maybe as Paul said, the lower the current is, the better and
more efficient these caps will be ?

What I found very interesting in your test was, that you needed
less time to charge up the caps with the ? same load resistor ?

So doesn´t that already say, that there is an energy gain ?

During charging the caps seemed to have a smaller capacity,
so you needed less Joules from the power supply.

During discharge the caps seemed to have a larger capacity
and thus delivered more Joules to the load resistor ?

Maybe this is the effect user Gadgetmail is using,
cause he claims his JT circuit with a supercap is overunity ?

Please let me know your comments.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on November 25, 2009, 03:37:25 AM
Hi Dr.Stiffler,
had a quick look at your measurements.

Well, you used only 5 and 10 ohms load resistors to do this.

What would come out of this test, if you would use
100 Ohm and 1000 ohm load resistors ?

Maybe as Paul said, the lower the current is, the better and
more efficient these caps will be ?

What I found very interesting in your test was, that you needed
less time to charge up the caps with the ? same load resistor ?

So doesn´t that already say, that there is an energy gain ?

During charging the caps seemed to have a smaller capacity,
so you needed less Joules from the power supply.

During discharge the caps seemed to have a larger capacity
and thus delivered more Joules to the load resistor ?

Maybe this is the effect user Gadgetmail is using,
cause he claims his JT circuit with a supercap is overunity ?

Please let me know your comments.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan

I did in my last answer (Paul L.) state that R does make a difference in what the C result may be. It is extremely hard to obtain a set of factory test specifications. Indeed I tried hard. Mallory does have available some info, (See References in my paper). Also looking at the tests and procedures I reference will help explain this and show some of the pit falls one my run into.

I DO NOT think Ultra/Super capacitors are mini OU factories, rather they have changing internal dynamics based and affected by charge/discharge rates.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 04:43:57 AM
Hi Dr. Stiffler, Stefan, and poynt99, & all,

Today the Maxwell boostcap BCAP0650 arrived, so I did a few quick tests. I'm a bit puzzled over the results, and would like your input. More tests are required to say for certain, but here's the data from two measurements,

Measurement #1:
Description: How long it takes to charge the BCAP0650.
Capacitor initial voltage: 210mV
Capacitor final voltage: 220mV
Current source: 199 mA
Time duration: 26.9 sec
=======
Calculated capacitance = 535 F

Measurement #2:
Description: How long it takes to charge the BCAP0650.
Capacitor initial voltage: 410mV
Capacitor final voltage: 420mV
Current source: 42.1 mA
Time duration: 150 sec
=======
Calculated capacitance = 632 F


Although inconclusive, could this suggest that bcap requires *less* energy to charge when *higher* current is used?

If confirmed, then it appears the bcap behaves as if it has less capacitance when high current is used. When the bcap was charged at 199mA, the capacitance was 535F. So if we place a load across the bcap and drain it at 42.1mA, would it have 632F? If true, then that indicates excess energy.

Tomorrow I'll do the other experiments to know for certain. It's probably nothing, and easily explained, but I thought this was interesting nonetheless. Tomorrow we'll know for certain.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 26, 2009, 05:09:55 AM
Hi Paul,
what voltage and charge resistor did you use to do this ?

Yes, Supercaps seem to be very dynamically interally.

Just have a look at what Dr. Stiffler has measured in his thread and
found out about his 3 Farad caps.

It seems possible, that the capacity varies with the value of the used charge/discharge current.

Maybe we can use this somehow to design a circuit to capture excess energy from the background ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on November 26, 2009, 05:15:10 AM
Paul:

That was good work there.  This was what I have been saying for almost 2 years about these type of caps, they do not behave in a "normal" capacitor manner.  At least not in my experience anyway.  Thanks for posting your results.  You will enjoy that B-cap, I promise you.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 05:16:30 AM
Hi Stefan,

A current source unit was connected to the bcap along with a current meter in-series, of course, and a voltage meter across the bcap. That's all.

It would be amazing if these caps capture excess energy. The only theory that comes to mind is based on quantum tunneling where a percentage of the more energetic charges tunnel across the polar molecules. I don't know, that theory is a stretch, and I'm not Stephen Hawking or a QM guru.

Bill,
Thanks. Stefan's correct that Dr. Stiffler has mentioned this odd effect. If true then you guys made the discovery of all discoveries.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 26, 2009, 05:34:36 AM
Paul, I hope you know that a capacitor, and especially the ultra capacitors (and batteries as well) have a significant internal equivalent series resistance.  When you measured the voltage during the test did you first stop the current and then take the voltage reading?  That's what you have to do, to at least not have this internal resistance drop the voltage as the current is flowing and thereby confuse your voltage readings.  Things are more complex then this simple model, but it suffices for this explanation.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: poynt99 on November 26, 2009, 05:36:20 AM
Paul.

What type of current source are you using? Was the current steady while it was charging?

Try a similar test with your biggest electrolytic type cap and compare.

How are you calculating the capacitance?

.99
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: poynt99 on November 26, 2009, 05:38:52 AM
The ESR of the BCAP0650 is 0.8m Ohms.

.99
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 05:40:05 AM
EMdevices,

Tomorrow I can analzye the caps resistane, but lets remember these are ultracaps. The datasheet of my bcap650 shows resistance (ESR) of 0.8mOhm (8e-4 ohms). 0.8mOhm * 199.2mA = 0.159 mV. That would not explain this effect.

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: EMdevices on November 26, 2009, 05:46:43 AM
Capacitance = C
Total Charge = Q
Voltage = V

C = Q/V      (by definition)

so we don't know the total charge in the capacitor (unless we integrated from zero, as my hybrid vehicle does)

So we use a difference

C * V1 = Q1,         and C * V2 = Q2

then we take the difference

Q1 - Q2 = C V1 - C V2 = C (V1 - V2)

but Q1 - Q2 , which is the total charge that flowed, is equal to the current multiplied by the duration of time that it flowed or I*t     (current is coulombs/sec)

so putting it all together

C = I*t / (V1-V2)


P.S.   Paul I see your posting above mine.  Yes they seem to have a low ESR, but it varies.  Everything they spec has some reference/standard they go by, like Dr Stiffler hinted at. I don't believe for a minute that the resistance stays at that low value no matter what current is drawn.

Oh, one other suggestion,  why not start with the same voltage and drain it at two different rates?  Also why work with such low voltages, go up to 1 volt or more.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 05:48:30 AM
C = I*t / (V1-V2)

That's the equation I used.  :)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 26, 2009, 05:57:23 AM
Here is how you can make cheaply yourself a few supercaps:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8360.0

They light read and yellow LEDs very nicely for a long time,
if you make them BIG !
;)

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: poynt99 on November 26, 2009, 05:58:45 AM
Might provide some insight:

From Patent 4825147: Capacitance measuring method and apparatus


The prior art methods of measuring the capacitance of large capacitors having an appreciable amount of ESR (equivalent series resistance) have been relatively time consuming, requiring several minutes for each measurement. Attempts to speed up such tests have introduced appreciable errors, primarily because of the ESR.

One such prior art method requires the measurement of the reactance of the capacitor while a signal having a predetermined frequency is applied to the capacitor. When the capacitance is high, the capacitive reactance is very low, usually less than one ohm, wherefor it is very difficult to make an accurate measurement of the reactance. Furthermore, even relatively low values of ESR make the accurate measurement of the capacitive reactance practically impossible.

In a second such method called the RC test, the capacitor under test is charged to a predetermined voltage level through a resistor having a known resistance. The time required to charge the capacitor to the predetermined level is measured and used to calculate the value of capacitance. Since the time required to charge the capacitor is proportional to the capacitance, it takes a long time to measure the capacitance of a large capacitor. This test can be speeded up by reducing the resistance of the series connected resistor through which the capacitor is charged, but as that resistance is lowered the effect of ESR increases and reduces the accuracy of the measurement.

Another commonly used method is known as the constant current test. When using this method the capacitor is connected across a constant current source and the time required to charge the capacitor between two different voltage levels is measured and used to calculate the capacitance. Where ESR is present and the capacitance is high, the time required to accurately measure the capacitance is necessarily long since the charging current must be kept relatively low to minimize the effect of ESR.

Recently a new type of capacitor having very high capacitance and very high ESR has become commercially available. Because of its construction it is known as the double layer capacitor. Testing these capacitors with known test methods has exacerbated the problems associated with time and accuracy. For example, when using the RC test to measure a capacitance of 100 μF., it takes 100 milliseconds to charge the capacitor to sixty-three percent of its full charge through a 1000 ohm resistor Using the same 1000 ohm series resistor to test a ten farad capacitor, it would take 166.6 minutes or 2.7 hours to make the same test. It would seem logical to reduce this time by lowering the resistance value. However, if the time is to be appreciably reduced in this manner a falsely low capacitance value will result where the capacitor has even a normal amount of ESR let alone the high values associated with the new double layer capacitors. Use of the constant current test provides even more erroneous measurements because increasing the charging current in order to decrease the time of the test magnifies the effect of ESR. As a consequence, use of the prior art methods of measuring capacitance requires long periods of time unless large error factors can be tolerated.

.99
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 06:14:35 AM
poynt99.
 
 In that article, it seems like they are assuming the cause is ESR, but I can't see that being the cause because these caps have extremely low ESR, not high, which is evident by the fact (according to the datasheet) that the short circuit current is 3500 amps!  2.7V / 3500A = 0.77 ohms, which is in agreement with the datasheet ESR. That would indicate the cap resistance remains relatively constant to current for a given temperature, no?

Looks like they're having the same issues in explaining these caps.  ;)

Paul
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: poynt99 on November 26, 2009, 06:27:07 AM
Measurement of ESR:

http://midwestdevices.com/pdfs/Tnote3.pdf

.99
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: poynt99 on November 26, 2009, 06:29:19 AM
Low ESR DL Capacitors:

http://www.batterypoweronline.com/eprints/free/avxmarch04.pdf

.99
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: poynt99 on November 26, 2009, 06:35:38 AM
Introduction to DL capacitors:

http://www.nesscap.com/data_nesscap/ECN%20article.pdf

.99
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on November 26, 2009, 10:29:16 AM
poynt99.
 
 In that article, it seems like they are assuming the cause is ESR, but I can't see that being the cause because these caps have extremely low ESR, not high, which is evident by the fact (according to the datasheet) that the short circuit current is 3500 amps!  2.7V / 3500A = 0.77 ohms, which is in agreement with the datasheet ESR. That would indicate the cap resistance remains relatively constant to current for a given temperature, no?

Looks like they're having the same issues in explaining these caps.  ;)

Paul

Hi Paul,

You may have noticed you happened to omit the word "milli" in your ESR calculation : it is 0.77 mOhm and not Ohm, ok?  (Dividing Volt by thousands of Ampers should give milliOhms.)

Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 05:01:54 PM
Hi Paul,

You may have noticed you happened to omit the word "milli" in your ESR calculation : it is 0.77 mOhm and not Ohm, ok?

Indeed. Isn't it amazing these are only 0.77mOhm resistance! I'm not used to typing mOhm.  ;)

In a few minutes I'll post the new measurements.
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 05:04:42 PM
This morning I did 17 ultracap measurements. I'm still not going to say for certain if the results show excess energy, but the measurements seem to indicate that might be the case. For me it's way to early to say for certain. The data is found at my blog site, and I was going to copy & paste it here, but there are key areas of interest that are highlighted in red, and I'm not going to take the extra time to due such highlighting here,
 
 http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/11/26/more-ultracap-measurements/
 
 Today's Thanksgiving for us, so there's a chance I'll have to wait till tomorrow to do more experiments.
 
 Regards,
 Paul
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: broli on November 26, 2009, 05:23:09 PM
This morning I did 17 ultracap measurements. I'm still not going to say for certain if the results show excess energy, but the measurements seem to indicate that might be the case. For me it's way to early to say for certain. The data is found at my blog site, and I was going to copy & paste it here, but there are key areas of interest that are highlighted in red, and I'm not going to take the extra time to due such highlighting here,
 
 http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/11/26/more-ultracap-measurements/ (http://globalfreeenergy.info/2009/11/26/more-ultracap-measurements/)
 
 Today's Thanksgiving for us, so there's a chance I'll have to wait till tomorrow to do more experiments.
 
 Regards,
 Paul

So this shows that charging should happen with low amperage and discharging with high?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 05:35:20 PM
So this shows that charging should happen with low amperage and discharging with high?

The opposite. You want high charging current, and low discharge current. Interestingly enough that's what gadget & all are doing.

The reason being is that the data *suggests* the capacitance is lower under higher current. Less capacitance equates to less energy to charge the capacitance-- E = 1/2 C V^2

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: broli on November 26, 2009, 07:10:22 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the JT gave high boltage spikes at low amperage, and then the bcap was discharged at low voltage at high amperage.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 26, 2009, 07:32:58 PM
I was referring to gadgets JT circuit. He's been talking about high current spikes, right? I seem to recall that he was talking about how his circuit destroys batteries. He would be the person to ask about that.

As far as rapid bcap discharging, weren't they just playing around to see how much power it has by making the wires glow, etc.? They probably were not measuring the total energy output from discharging the bcap. It seems obvious the lower the current the more energy they'll get from discharging the bcap. Maybe I'm wrong because so far I have not done any discharge measurements, yet.

Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: innovation_station on November 26, 2009, 09:06:18 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the JT gave high boltage spikes at low amperage, and then the bcap was discharged at low voltage at high amperage.

im going to say you both are correct

here is why ...  you have 2 hands..

w
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: sparks on November 27, 2009, 04:33:34 AM
   Tesla is credited with developing the coherer.  Before his work with resonance radio transmission basically was using the capacitance of the antennae charged up to as high a voltage as they could muster between capacitor plate a the antennae and capacitor plate b earth.  This capacitor was then shorted out to ground through a spark gap.  This produced a wild ass oscillation of current which was ok for wireless telegraphy since that was pretty much digital transmission of information.  Then the problem of multiple users came into play and things started slowing down while different users waited for transmissions to cease before doing there thing.  Tesla used the resonance of  his tank circuits to make sure the timing of the disruptive discharge occurred only when the voltage in the tank was low enough relative to the supply transformer capacitor network voltage state.  This allowed for a very coherent wave field and the advent of tuned receivers channels amplitude modulation etc.  He liked resonance and I believe the Wardenclyffe tower was going to be a tuned resonant circuit where he was going to alternately charge and discharge the big ground he had  using it as one plate of a capacitor and the other plate was going to be the Earth itself.  This would capacitively couple the big tank circuit he had pulsing with the Earth.  Changing polarity at some frequency and the Earth alternately causing current to flow inwards towards the tower then outwards.  His dielectric was the air and the pitchblende they were painted with down in the tunnels.  The air surrounding the tower top was the third plate in this capacitor scheme.'
  The resonance was initiated between the air capacitor plate and the buried insulated metal plate.  The inductor in the middle.  The tank would be maintained and damped as little as possible so that the currents and potentials would build up in the resonator from the supply input. 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 28, 2009, 04:31:22 PM
im going to say you both are correct

here is why ...  you have 2 hands..

w

 IST is probably correct. Broli is probably talking about the *average* power, and I was talking about the spike / pulse. The present data seems obvious that the ultracap capacitance has significantly increased with temperature. That's not to say temperature is the cause or full cause.
 
 So, the measurements so far have shown that if the average current is high, then the ultracap capacitance increases a lot, which is not a good thing because the capacitance increases. We want low capacitance for charging, and high capacitance for discharging.
 
 Also, so far the ultracap capacitance has increased when the *pulse* current is high.
 
 That may seem contradictory, but it's not. It suggests the pulse current should be high, but such pulses should be far apart from each other so as to keep the ultracap temperature down. That's what I see in the data so far.
 
 Last night I did tons more measurements, but this time on discharging the ultracap. OMG, all I should say is these are strange capacitors! The data provides such outrageous numbers that I'm going to refrain from posting the data until I can make some sense of it.
 
 Regards,
 Paul
 
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gadgetmall on November 28, 2009, 05:01:26 PM
 OMG Indeed they are  ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 28, 2009, 05:08:17 PM
Hi Stefan,

I posted my data in this thread because of Dr. Stifflers supercap measurements, but I don't want to disturb his thread. Where's a good place to post my ultracap measurements? It should be in a > cop 1 area of the forum since that's the entire reason for testing them.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 28, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
Hi Paul,
please post it in the supercap board as a new
topic:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?board=14.0

Many thanks in advance.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: PaulLowrance on November 30, 2009, 06:47:31 PM
Here's the new thread,

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8387.0

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 01, 2009, 04:23:45 PM
i finally got my 18-1 working in a 'vicious circle' similar to the video the doc showed awhile back.

i have some of my towers making hho as per the docs even earlier videos and using that flame and thermocouples, i have the necessary juice to provide the 'tickle' as the doc called it to get the whole thing going without the need for a freq. generator. it just needs to be bootstrapped with a lighter...

anyone else other than the good doc working along these lines?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Yucca on December 01, 2009, 07:00:28 PM
WilbyInebriated, you seem serious about this researech, that's really good!

Have you pledged any $ for Stefans prize pot, many moons ago I did, $500, OU research is great isn't it  :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on December 01, 2009, 11:31:58 PM
i finally got my 18-1 working in a 'vicious circle' similar to the video the doc showed awhile back.

i have some of my towers making hho as per the docs even earlier videos and using that flame and thermocouples, i have the necessary juice to provide the 'tickle' as the doc called it to get the whole thing going without the need for a freq. generator. it just needs to be bootstrapped with a lighter...

anyone else other than the good doc working along these lines?

When you get some time you need to make a video of it.

It sounds interesting I'd like to see what your talking about.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 02, 2009, 02:53:11 AM
When you get some time you need to make a video of it.

It sounds interesting I'd see what your talking about.
sorry, i don't make videos, and from the looks of things it is quite possible i won't be posting at this site in the future.

it's simple really, it's just a combination of stiffler's can water be burned video and his video where he tickles the sec tower coil with the 1V input from his freq. gen. and gets that vicious circle going. all i have done is connect the dots and combine the two. instead of using a freq. genny i use the juice from the thermocouple(s) to power a discrete circuit that replaces the freq. generator's 'tickle'. holding a lighter under the thermocouple(s) bootstraps the whole process and when enough hho is created, it is self running. voilà
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: sparks on December 02, 2009, 03:42:13 AM
  Could it be that the ionization energy of hydrogen is less than the oxidation potentials.  Like it may be easier to resonate the shit apart than pull it apart.  Certain forms of matter absorb different frequencies.  The intensity of the photon energy is of no concern it is the frigging frequency.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on December 02, 2009, 04:34:49 AM
sorry, i don't make videos, and from the looks of things it is quite possible i won't be posting at this site in the future.

it's simple really, it's just a combination of stiffler's can water be burned video and his video where he tickles the sec tower coil with the 1V input from his freq. gen. and gets that vicious circle going. all i have done is connect the dots and combine the two. instead of using a freq. genny i use the juice from the thermocouple(s) to power a discrete circuit that replaces the freq. generator's 'tickle'. holding a lighter under the thermocouple(s) bootstraps the whole process and when enough hho is created, it is self running. voilà

Could you snap a picture of the setup?  I would think if you got something like this running, you would be aching to show people..I know I would.  Do you have any readings on the output of your thermocouple?  Also what type of electrodes are you using?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 02, 2009, 11:45:51 AM
Could you snap a picture of the setup?  I would think if you got something like this running, you would be aching to show people..I know I would.  Do you have any readings on the output of your thermocouple?  Also what type of electrodes are you using?
Indeed, if wilby has managed to close the loop, so to speak, I would love to see a detailed circuit schematic along with materials and construction details, rather than just a brief description of what he's done.

A succesfull replication based on his work would validate his claims and at the same time help to break the nexus between conservative science and self interested business conglomerates.

How about it wilby. Can and will you share more information on your successful experiment ??

Cheers
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 02, 2009, 12:29:40 PM
Could you snap a picture of the setup?  I would think if you got something like this running, you would be aching to show people..I know I would.  Do you have any readings on the output of your thermocouple?  Also what type of electrodes are you using?
i'm not interested in the inevitable maelstrom of assumption, speculaton and criticism that will ensue if i do that. nope, no aches... ;) stiffler already showed how to do it. it was him saying "i wish someone would send me a stirling engine" that got me going on it. thanks to the talking heads that video is gone now... 120V @ 10 mA and 2V @ .5A (approx.) is the output on the TEG. carbon electrodes.

Indeed, if wilby has managed to close the loop, so to speak, I would love to see a detailed circuit schematic along with materials and construction details, rather than just a brief description of what he's done.

A succesfull replication based on his work would validate his claims and at the same time help to break the nexus between conservative science and self interested business conglomerates.

How about it wilby. Can and will you share more information on your successful experiment ??

Cheers
i didn't do anything special, stiffler showed all of this before. i just came up with a way to provide the tickle other than using a freq. generator, and the way i did it is not the only way... think about it. you can find the circuits on stifflers site and other places.

i'm not interested in having anyone replicating exactly what i have done, and it's not really my work, it's stiffler's, i just connected the dots. it's not a claim, and third party validation doesn't interest me, i've seen how that ends up... ::) nor does breaking any nexus.

stiffler has provided all the information you need.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 02, 2009, 03:28:16 PM
@WilbyInebriated

That is probably the right decision. I'm sure you realize that every one wants someone else to do all the work and post the finished product so all can have. In some cases that makes sense, yet in others it is a waste of time except for the "Coverts". I would say that out of a few hundred people that have duplicated my systems, maybe five or ok 10 have done it right, always wanting to know if this or that part will work in place of what you spec. Why draw a nice diagram and search out suppliers and part numbers, show videos and make details charts and tables, yeah believe me that is the way of the good guy, right.

The one thing I really find about what yu stated is the efficiency of the TC, man you have a good one. I worked with some new solar cell designs that were over 30% eff., but still had problems keeping things running. Of course the pudits are ready to ask if not already, well big deal it self runs, does it have anything left to be useful, interesting also how the bar is always raised higher and higher so no one get credit for any advance, share with the masses, the new world order.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 02, 2009, 05:58:25 PM
Dr. Stiffler:

Very well said sir.  I agree with you, and Wilby, 100%.

Thank you for shipping out my SEC-18-1 board to me so promptly.  I have not had much time to experiment, but I soon will and I am looking forward to working with it.

Thank you,

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on December 02, 2009, 06:38:15 PM
i'm not interested in the inevitable maelstrom of assumption, speculaton and criticism that will ensue if i do that. nope, no aches... ;)

Why even talk about it then?  To dangle an imaginary sting?  Yea go hide in a corner then.

That is probably the right decision. I'm sure you realize that every one wants someone else to do all the work and post the finished product so all can have.

That's what you really believe?  I've worked almost daily for 2 years with the sec, trying to learn all I can, and I am sad that you view people like me as a leach who sits around and does nothing but wait for your next step up.  Perhaps there are people who don't have the brilliant background of superior electronic skills such as you who want to learn and educate themselves in order to further the cause, and break free of the cell we are born into.  But f them right?  They add nothing.  It's no wonder humanity is in the gutter.

I always thought it was about helping people.."I" will continue to believe that, and no one will convince me otherwise.  Better believe if I have anything good to share I'm gonna ram it down peoples' throats.

That's all from me.  Feel free to get rid of me like the others.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 02, 2009, 06:54:38 PM
Why even talk about it then?  To dangle an imaginary sting?  Yea go hide in a corner then.

That's what you really believe?  I've worked almost daily for 2 years with the sec, trying to learn all I can, and I am sad that you view people like me as a leach who sits around and does nothing but wait for your next step up.  Perhaps there are people who don't have the brilliant background of superior electronic skills such as you who want to learn and educate themselves in order to further the cause, and break free of the cell we are born into.  But f them right?  They add nothing.  It's no wonder humanity is in the gutter.

I always thought it was about helping people.."I" will continue to believe that, and no one will convince me otherwise.  Better believe if I have anything good to share I'm gonna ram it down peoples' throats.

That's all from me.  Feel free to get rid of me like the others.

What you have just stated justifies what I said. Just read back through this thread and the one on EF and if you don't understand what I was saying then join the group.

Really, Helping people and (Carrying) people is totally two different things. What every give someone the right to say that because I spent my life working and learning, sweating and crying that I now owe all of what I have or can accomplish to the rest of the world??

Silly way of looking at things. Example, when I was a very young person in school they did not worry about such things as politically correct, self esteem, bullies. You were complemented and rewarded by a gold star or your name at the top of the list for getting the top score in a test. Gee now we all don't want to hurt little Johns or Judy's feelings but doing something so simple and effective, now we pay our children to pass test that they cheat on. Yes indeed it is a great day in society for sure and all the young people that feel this way have no clue how it all runs and waht to do when it falls apart.

Join the line at the cliff and let those great intellectual politicians serve you needs with housing food and whatever 'they feel' 'they' want to give you.

Oh yes! If I could pull all my circuits back ad take them to the grave I would, I don't feel they will benefit anyone, you have to give forth to receive, not just receive.

So don't give me this high and might assessment of how life is.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on December 02, 2009, 07:54:11 PM
Really, Helping people and (Carrying) people is totally two different things. What every give someone the right to say that because I spent my life working and learning, sweating and crying that I now owe all of what I have or can accomplish to the rest of the world??

I agree you owe nobody anything, it's up to you whether you want to "share" that knowledge for the benefit of others.

We are all on this rock together, sure there's 80% who would step on you to get to a higher plane.  But it's not about them.  How do you think the human race advances itself?  It builds upon the information the previous generation left behind.

I don't mean to imply that you are a bad guy, I actually have a lot of respect for you and what you have already freely given to the community, where so many others haven't.  I don't view you as someone looking for the big payout, I've never viewed you in this way.  If you were you wouldn't have shared so much as you did.  If you want to patent and sell your system, I think you have definitely earned that, and I have no problem with that what's so ever..I wish you good luck with that, "honestly".  If I ever see it on the market, I will be one of the first to stand in line, because I'm sure it will be a kickass product.  Again, if you need help with aesthetics, ergonomics or usability I would be happy to help.  :P

 I am only sad that you would up and leave the group because someone questions your integrity or says something wrong.  Why should it be so easy to make you leave?  Who cares what someone else thinks.  It really doesn't matter as long as you are doing what you love to do.  I'm not asking you to "carry" anyone.  I was known by some of my teachers for being very independent, because I would take the initiative to learn things myself without asking the teacher, so I know exactly what you mean by that.  Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for life..

Oh yes! If I could pull all my circuits back ad take them to the grave I would, I don't feel they will benefit anyone, you have to give forth to receive, not just receive.

Too late, they have already helped many people lite their way.  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibE7IqEjni4
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 02, 2009, 08:36:34 PM
I agree you owe nobody anything, it's up to you whether you want to "share" that knowledge for the benefit of others.

We are all on this rock together, sure there's 80% who would step on you to get to a higher plane.  But it's not about them.  How do you think the human race advances itself?  It builds upon the information the previous generation left behind.

I don't mean to imply that you are a bad guy, I actually have a lot of respect for you and what you have already freely given to the community, where so many others haven't.  I don't view you as someone looking for the big payout, I've never viewed you in this way.  If you were you wouldn't have shared so much as you did.  If you want to patent and sell your system, I think you have definitely earned that, and I have no problem with that what's so ever..I wish you good luck with that, "honestly".  If I ever see it on the market, I will be one of the first to stand in line, because I'm sure it will be a kickass product.  Again, if you need help with aesthetics, ergonomics or usability I would be happy to help.  :P

 I am only sad that you would up and leave the group because someone questions your integrity or says something wrong.  Why should it be so easy to make you leave?  Who cares what someone else thinks.  It really doesn't matter as long as you are doing what you love to do.  I'm not asking you to "carry" anyone.  I was known by some of my teachers for being very independent, because I would take the initiative to learn things myself without asking the teacher, so I know exactly what you mean by that.  Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for life..

Too late, they have already helped many people lite their way.  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibE7IqEjni4

Thank you... now that you have passed the initial reaction to what I said I think what you state makes sense (well almost all).

Teaching a man to fish is much different than fishing for him. I have and continue to freely give out information that many have connected the dots to, so I have no regrets as to my methods nor shall I apologize to anyone for trying to get some understanding across.

Here is the bottom line, and I have been kick, poked, stepped on and rejected for every saying it, but I'll say it again and what it is, is that to play in the sand box you need your own shovel. Everyone want so called (free) energy, and it is out there and will come, but it will be controlled like the energy you get today. Why, well many reasons, but the one I keep saying over and over again is that you can not obtain the results I obtain from my circuits unless you can observe the dynamics of the circuits themselves. I once made the stupid statement that got me the wrath of Kahn that you needed $40K minimum of equipment to get a CEC>1. Well I won't say that again, but.... So where does that leave the pursuit? If the man on the street does not have the capability to build, test and tune the devices he needs, then what is the answer? Well someone else must, is that commercialization? Yes when it the utilities that do it. Why do you you think I ever built the 15, 18, 20 and 40 series boards? For profit, hey! I made enough to maybe pay two months electric bills in Houston Texas for the months of July and August, if you think that is business and making a profit for all the work involve, then I don't want you for a business partner.

I built these boards so everyone could have a stable platform to work and explore from, period. ALL of the boards are capable of CEC>1, but how does the average user see than? Oh, sorry, free runner, please folks that is not the sole test of so called over-unity.

Simply put I don't take any sh__, why do I have to? Who do I owe? I am trying to get people to not only see what is possible but open the door in their mine so hundreds of people can tap the energy sources available in many different ways. It's like getting the feel for that slight tug on that fishing line as the fish nibbles the bait and knowing just when to jerk the line to set the hook.

But then again I guess we have fish markets because all people can not or do not want to fish and they get real mad when the market is out.

Thanks for answering back, I see now that maybe you (as I many times) took what I said wrong and maybe, just maybe we are not all that far apart.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 02, 2009, 09:34:15 PM
i had a long winded response all typed up, but,
like sands through the hourglass so are the days of OUr lives... ::)


freezer, the reason i said anything certainly wasn't to dangle a string... it was to share, and perhaps, like the doc did to me, to inspire... i said it once before when i was still working on it, in the half baked section in a thread about 'burn water for heating system' and had to deal with talking heads like spoondini making assumptions, positing flawed arguments and jumping to conclusions. go read it and you may start to understand where i am coming from. ok, back to my corner to hide...

doc stiffler, the TEG is ancient, and massive. i scavenged it, crazy what people will throw away... it's from the 30's or 40's? it was originally used to power a radio from a kerosene lamp. man, they don't make shit like they used to.
i owe you a world of thanks for what you did choose to share...

to whom it may concern,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_GqE5aDR68   this isn't the one i used. read the comments for a good laugh :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Dak5UOjew

there is the JTEC also. the user lumen? has mentioned it a couple times IIRC.
http://www.johnsonems.com/?q=node/2
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on December 03, 2009, 10:52:25 AM
i had a long winded response all typed up, but,
like sands through the hourglass so are the days of OUr lives... ::)


freezer, the reason i said anything certainly wasn't to dangle a string... it was to share, and perhaps, like the doc did to me, to inspire... i said it once before when i was still working on it, in the half baked section in a thread about 'burn water for heating system' and had to deal with talking heads like spoondini making assumptions, positing flawed arguments and jumping to conclusions. go read it and you may start to understand where i am coming from. ok, back to my corner to hide...

doc stiffler, the TEG is ancient, and massive. i scavenged it, crazy what people will throw away... it's from the 30's or 40's? it was originally used to power a radio from a kerosene lamp. man, they don't make shit like they used to.
i owe you a world of thanks for what you did choose to share...

to whom it may concern,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_GqE5aDR68   this isn't the one i used. read the comments for a good laugh :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Dak5UOjew

there is the JTEC also. the user lumen? has mentioned it a couple times IIRC.
http://www.johnsonems.com/?q=node/2
I never assume anything.
I have already made a number of successful replications of DOC's earlier circuits, which was easy, because he gave detailed schematics, and materials/construction tips.

What interested me in your statement, was that you "did away with the frequency generator" and used a thermocoupler rigged up to another circuit. Great for you, but unlike the doc, you've given no details whatever to show what you mean. Pity.

I for one would like to replicate it, but the minimal information you gave is obtuse to say the least.

Oh well, guess I'll just have to keep going around in circles till something promising becomes evident.
Que sera

Cheers
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on December 06, 2009, 10:28:29 PM
Wireless High Voltage

True Spatial Resonance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoBiOfsxN5g
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: stprue on December 06, 2009, 10:39:12 PM
That's awesome!  way better then mine I just poster...Inductive wireless JT



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llfJW3Yhjrk
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: sparks on December 07, 2009, 01:54:37 AM
   @Dr. Stifler

      I fail to see the difference between your latest demonstrations of wireless transmission of electricity and that of a simple am radio broadcasting network with the possible exception of gain from the field due to inductive coupling which is only possible in the near field of the transmitter.  The magnetic field disruption diffusing as a function of the cube of the radius whereas the electric field polarization diffusion progresses as a square of the radius.  Pehaps the current draw on the primary power scource is not affected by the on off state of the receivers.  Then of course it is just a matter of building many receivers and feeding back a portion of the energy to instigate the primary oscillation..  This would be definite proof that an electromagnetic wave can act as a catalyist in the transformation of standing wave energy into traveling wave energy.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on December 07, 2009, 07:26:14 PM
I never assume anything.
I have already made a number of successful replications of DOC's earlier circuits, which was easy, because he gave detailed schematics, and materials/construction tips.

What interested me in your statement, was that you "did away with the frequency generator" and used a thermocoupler rigged up to another circuit. Great for you, but unlike the doc, you've given no details whatever to show what you mean. Pity.

I for one would like to replicate it, but the minimal information you gave is obtuse to say the least.

Oh well, guess I'll just have to keep going around in circles till something promising becomes evident.
Que sera

Cheers

i'm sorry hoptoad, to say that i "did away with the frequency generator" was a bit obtuse. that was a bad way to say what i meant.

to clarify, i didn't really do away with the frequency generator, that is what the discrete circuit does, i just didn't see a need for a full featured, powered from mains frequency generator...

i can see how what i said could spin someone in circles.
sera

(pardon the terrible double entendre ;) )
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on December 17, 2009, 11:56:04 PM
In this video I'm using a Joule Thief to run a SEC 15.And light a 4w cfl off a 1.5v battery.

The two L2 coils made a big difference in lighting the CFL to full brightness.

It still needs to be tuned a little more but it's getting there.

Here is a short video of.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqR2F2dc138
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Reincarnate on December 22, 2009, 09:52:57 AM
Thank you... now that you have passed the initial reaction to what I said I think what you state makes sense (well almost all).

Teaching a man to fish is much different than fishing for him. I have and continue to freely give out information that many have connected the dots to, so I have no regrets as to my methods nor shall I apologize to anyone for trying to get some understanding across.

Here is the bottom line, and I have been kick, poked, stepped on and rejected for every saying it, but I'll say it again and what it is, is that to play in the sand box you need your own shovel. Everyone want so called (free) energy, and it is out there and will come, but it will be controlled like the energy you get today. Why, well many reasons, but the one I keep saying over and over again is that you can not obtain the results I obtain from my circuits unless you can observe the dynamics of the circuits themselves. I once made the stupid statement that got me the wrath of Kahn that you needed $40K minimum of equipment to get a CEC>1. Well I won't say that again, but.... So where does that leave the pursuit? If the man on the street does not have the capability to build, test and tune the devices he needs, then what is the answer? Well someone else must, is that commercialization? Yes when it the utilities that do it. Why do you you think I ever built the 15, 18, 20 and 40 series boards? For profit, hey! I made enough to maybe pay two months electric bills in Houston Texas for the months of July and August, if you think that is business and making a profit for all the work involve, then I don't want you for a business partner.

I built these boards so everyone could have a stable platform to work and explore from, period. ALL of the boards are capable of CEC>1, but how does the average user see than? Oh, sorry, free runner, please folks that is not the sole test of so called over-unity.

Simply put I don't take any sh__, why do I have to? Who do I owe? I am trying to get people to not only see what is possible but open the door in their mine so hundreds of people can tap the energy sources available in many different ways. It's like getting the feel for that slight tug on that fishing line as the fish nibbles the bait and knowing just when to jerk the line to set the hook.

But then again I guess we have fish markets because all people can not or do not want to fish and they get real mad when the market is out.

Thanks for answering back, I see now that maybe you (as I many times) took what I said wrong and maybe, just maybe we are not all that far apart.

Dr. Stiffler,

You won't be able to pay an electric bill with this and it may have no value to you, but I feel I owe it to you.

I have followed your work on youtube and here from time to time and even managed to piss you off in a past incarnation.

I am sorry that I may have contributed to your frustration. I have found great value and have learned much from both your circuits and your experience of having to defend yourself from ridicule.

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for all you have freely shared in this forum and with your videos. I wouldn't have a clue of what capacitive inductance is or how it may be a valuable tool had it not been for your circuits. It is novel, original and created a lot of interest.

So you can't pay your bills with that but if it makes you feel a tiny bit better about your experience then I have redeemed my soul in regard to you.

Best wishes to you, merry Christmas and thank you for your contribution.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slayer007 on January 13, 2010, 01:28:14 AM
In this video I have a SEC 15 running off one AA battery lighting a light and charging ten batteries.
This is running off one AA battery using a cell phone charger to run the SEC.
The cell phone charger will hold just under 6v when running the SEC.
This also works just as good with the Chilliqueen,Jonnydavro circuit.

Here is the video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JROw_OsKbS0
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on June 24, 2010, 02:18:24 AM
Here is the latest video from Dr.Stiffler:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17xjF9cHDNc

He has found out, how to scale up hydrogen production with the SEC.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Cloxxki on June 25, 2010, 02:46:51 PM
Youtube poster lidmotor in response to the above referenced video already placed 4 diodes in a wine glass, all producing gas.
The answer whether HHO production is indeed OU, may be a few hundreds or even thousands of diodes away. And only when the diode material is not being oxydized.

I am a huge fan of the Doc's work, but the strong claims of his latest video seem to hint he's either not showing his current state of work, or is slightly jumping to a conclusion. HHO has also been shown produced without any input current or excitated field, just not in a renewable fashion. Aluminum or some other component will be required to corrode to make hydrogen release possible.

A very "exciting" invention of course, can't wait to hear more about it.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on June 25, 2010, 09:39:27 PM
OR just connecte a metal sheet to ONE diode
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Hugo Chavez on June 26, 2010, 12:51:38 AM
"OR just connecte a A to ONE diode"

that's what I was thinking too.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: quarktoo on July 04, 2010, 03:09:33 PM
Stiffler sounded pretty "excited" about the fact that a RF signal connect to a capacitor to a diode through the water produces electrolysis. Is that why he calls it an exciter?

I don't think there is anything abnormal in that it produces electrolysis. He seems to think distributed capacitance of a coil (cold electricity claim) and now a water cap with a diode inside is something unusual. He is always interesting to watch though.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on July 04, 2010, 03:26:11 PM
Quarktoo
Is one wire electrolysis in distilled water nothing special?
{last time I looked I think that was the claim[I could be wrong]]

Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on July 04, 2010, 10:35:38 PM
I wonder how good the latest Stiffler electrolysis works with saltwater ?

Kanzius did a simular experiment by exciting saltwater with about 13 Mhz Radiofrequency
and generating hydrogen from the saltwater this way.
Maybe we can do it this was with much less power with a Stiffer SEC ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: quarktoo on July 05, 2010, 08:16:35 AM
Quarktoo
Is one wire electrolysis in distilled water nothing special?
{last time I looked I think that was the claim[I could be wrong]]

Chet

It would have been until John Kanzius did it with zero wires. After that... not so special...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: exnihiloest on July 05, 2010, 09:17:00 AM
...
Is one wire electrolysis in distilled water nothing special?
...

It is not a one wire electrolysis.
There are the two diode electrodes.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 06, 2010, 09:13:54 AM
It is not a one wire electrolysis.
There are the two diode electrodes.

To be more exact, it is a no wire set-up as the diode is not connected to anything at all.  Also, the bubbles only emanate from one end of the diode and not the other, so I believe that makes this a bit unusual.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Sprocket on July 07, 2010, 04:26:50 AM
The 'unusualness' I see is that Dr. Stiffler is implying that irrespective of the number of diodes used, there will be no increase in input power!  Generating hydrogen like this is also cool I suppose! :)

Also, I don't think that Dr. Stiffler somehow 'forgot' about using just one diode tied to something with lots of spikes - mucho diodes would appear a pre-requisite...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: quarktoo on July 15, 2010, 12:14:41 PM
To be more exact, it is a no wire set-up as the diode is not connected to anything at all.  Also, the bubbles only emanate from one end of the diode and not the other, so I believe that makes this a bit unusual.

Bill

Both electrodes produce gas and he points this out in latter videos. Stiffler places the copper ring near one end of the diode and the plates of a capacitor do not distribute charge equally and so there is a capacitive connection to the diode which is as real as a copper wire connection. Stiffler's claim that it is not Faraday electrolysis does not appear to be accurate.

Don't get me wrong, I am always interested in what he is up to which seems centered around capacitive inductance.

It is also fair to point out that the copper ring, shorted or not, at high frequency is an electromagnet when surrounding the steel lead of the diode which is a core and that is an electromagnet by definition. The diode creates the dipole.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NewAge on January 25, 2011, 01:03:22 PM
HI!
I just found out about Dr.Stiffler and his cold electricity circuit. However his website www.drstiffler.com is gone, no diagrams. I have no time to read through 190 pages; do you know where can I find them?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on January 25, 2011, 01:39:32 PM
... seems that he just lost his dns entry:
Try this:

http://67.76.235.52/

Even if I think that he never left electrodynamics the way he want to proove it - I respect his work by a high degree.
The usual art of engineering just covers a narrow path with assumptions and thumb rules.
Leaving that path is a fascinating thing (...)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: altrez on January 29, 2011, 12:52:40 PM
Anyone know why he took down his youtube channel?

-Altrez
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on January 29, 2011, 08:20:03 PM
Anyone know why he took down his youtube channel?

-Altrez
last i heard from the old bear he was pissed about some people allegedly trying to hack his computers at his lab. he has done this before (taken his ball and gone home). a bit sad as there was some decent discussion in his threads. that is, when all the various EE's kept their overunity egos in check and didn't engage in elementary schoolyard pissing contests.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: fritz on January 29, 2011, 08:38:59 PM
(...) didn't engage in elementary schoolyard pissing contests.

LOL
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on January 29, 2011, 10:32:19 PM

In fact Dr Stiffler opened another channel last December but he has 10 videos alltogether, he did not reupload those that he had removed.
http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr

However, there are several of his older videos available on others youtube channels, just do a seach on youtube.com

Peswiki also has some links:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Stiffler_Cold_Electricity_Circuit

Gyula
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on January 30, 2011, 03:59:32 PM
LOL

I want to set the record as straight as I can, fully knowing it will be taken out of context 1,000 times.

First; Hi fritz!

I want to say that 'WilbyInebriated' pretty much summed up the problems with the whole of the alternative energy quest. I do feel that there does indeed need to be interjection from the rock solid in the box engineers, yet they need to stop trying to keep things statuesque.

For the record; I did not remove my video channel as a part of my control. I did indeed have far to many hours tied up here to dump it all.

It was not a result of any attacks on my web site, even though I get real pissed that people have nothing better to do than cause that type of trouble. Granted I am using a cheap server and that is a major problem, yet I just disconnected it from the internal network and backup so it can be recovered after all the folly and games.

If and I do not know, a copy exists of what I had up, it will not take a genius to figure out what happened.

The new channel will be small as it now is and may or may not get updated.

Anyway "The old bear was not pissed or I would have taken the site down for sure and left it down.

Good luck out there and spending time on the what problems may appear this and next year.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: XS-NRG on January 30, 2011, 04:39:34 PM
191 pages and i still did not see any selfrunning circuit  ::)
I did see one video with a diode in water and some inventor that had no idea what was going on telling me to "save the vid" before it's gone  :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Herger on January 30, 2011, 06:52:46 PM
DrStiffler,

Water separation implies charge separation, and charging batteries or capacitors would be a good test.

Can you convert the cold current to conduction current?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on January 30, 2011, 09:09:58 PM
herger, conduction current is defined as "a movement ('flow') of charges due to the presence of an electric field". do you agree with that definition and if not, what is your definition of 'conduction current'? also, what is your definition of 'cold current' and where do you see it demonstrated in these circuits?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: XS-NRG on January 30, 2011, 09:20:32 PM
His Name is Grumpy.

And he does not know that his "conduction current" is a wrong name.
It is CONVENTIONAL CURRENT and CONVECTION CURRENT.
Where Conventional is the current through and over wires, and the Convection current implies to the other form.
By the way sleeplijn moordenaar is also a wrong translation!
It shows imediatly that a translator was used.. ::)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: forest on January 30, 2011, 09:49:11 PM
Can you point me to the differences between conduction current and displacement current ?
Here is a mystery : if you connect bulb to negative and positive of the same battery current will flow, however if you connect to negative of one battery and positive of another one - there would be no current except displacement current which is very small.
Why is that ?!

Sorry for offtopic
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Herger on January 30, 2011, 10:45:10 PM
His Name is Grumpy.

And he does not know that his "conduction current" is a wrong name.
It is CONVENTIONAL CURRENT and CONVECTION CURRENT.
Where Conventional is the current through and over wires, and the Convection current implies to the other form.
By the way sleeplijn moordenaar is also a wrong translation!
It shows imediatly that a translator was used.. ::)

What an idiot!  You spend all day spamming threads and starting flame wars.  Grow up!

Your physics is as bad as your attitude and that make you look even more ridiculous.  Anyone who has taken a college level physics course, even as a freshman, knows there are several types of "current".  Here are a few for you to "Google" before you make yourself look even more stupid: polarization, displacement, convection, conduction, and drift.  Then there are magnetic currents, but since you are already drowning, the water is too deep for you.

I don't know or care what you mean by the rest of your rant.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: XS-NRG on January 30, 2011, 10:52:18 PM

I don't know or care what you mean by the rest of your rant.


I don't buy it Grumpy  ::)
Why don't you try to fool somebody else?

 :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: quarktoo on January 30, 2011, 10:54:55 PM
191 pages and i still did not see any selfrunning circuit  ::)
I did see one video with a diode in water and some inventor that had no idea what was going on telling me to "save the vid" before it's gone  :D

That wasn't stiffler's writing since Stiffler is always angry. I think MIB did wack him, take his channel down and now they are posting under his many gold stars. Maybe they will make it self run?;)

Hey Ramset, Stiffler willed me his many golden overunity stars upon his death. Pony up!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on January 31, 2011, 12:26:21 AM
herger, conduction current is defined as "a movement ('flow') of charges due to the presence of an electric field". do you agree with that definition and if not, what is your definition of 'conduction current'? also, what is your definition of 'cold current' and where do you see it demonstrated in these circuits?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Herger on January 31, 2011, 01:13:09 AM
herger, conduction current is defined as "a movement ('flow') of charges due to the presence of an electric field". do you agree with that definition and if not, what is your definition of 'conduction current'? also, what is your definition of 'cold current' and where do you see it demonstrated in these circuits?

conduction current: A current due to a flow of conduction electrons through a body.

Cold current: don't know
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Herger on January 31, 2011, 01:17:47 AM
I don't buy it Grumpy  ::)
Why don't you try to fool somebody else?

 :D

This is getting really old, Murk.  Just like your I have an OU device stories.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: quarktoo on January 31, 2011, 01:28:52 AM
This is getting really old, Murk.  Just like your I have an OU device stories.

Oh no! Herger sounds like he is getting "grumpy".  ;D

What is your definition of cold electricity and convection current?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: quarktoo on January 31, 2011, 01:30:26 AM
This is getting really old, Murk.  Just like your I have an OU device stories.

Oh no! Herger sounds like he is becoming "grumpy".  ;D

What is your definition of cold electricity and convection current?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: XS-NRG on January 31, 2011, 01:50:02 AM
This is getting really old, Murk.  Just like your I have an OU device stories.

haha  :)
now we know for sure.
Go to OUR Grump that's where you belong..
And take your girlfriend Poynt/Ghost_Rider with you.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: MrsNancy on January 31, 2011, 02:14:28 AM
so are you saying that grumpy is herger and poynt99 is ghost_rider?

that is so creepy. as a woman, I am very sensitive to creepy men on the internet. thank you for warning me xs-nrg! you are a true troll fighter and i hope you and that quarktwo get these people banned and out of here.

who ever runs this forum really needs to do his job and ban those trouble makers grumpy and poynt99! no wonder no girls post here!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: quarktoo on January 31, 2011, 02:19:46 AM
They were banned but they can't take a hint. Not sure if .99 was banned but should have been for what he has done to this forum. Thanks for the heads up XS-NRG!

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: quarktoo on January 31, 2011, 02:36:02 AM
Doles definition of his cold electricity circuit seems to fit for a definition in every way from the observed effects. What I find difficult to explain is if both sides are equal and it is a standing wave, how is there a electrical arc?

My only possible explanation is a phase difference between voltage and current interaction between the two sides of the network and the fact that the coil is shorted through the core with copper wire. One thing is for sure, it is a very interesting demonstration worthy of much investigation. Too bad Stiffler doesn't spend some time on this. He could come back and regain some of the credibility he lost.

The Stiffler show was one of the funniest I recall watching in the ten years I have been coming here. He used multiple user names just like grumpy and .99. Maybe they work for the same people?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: plengo on February 06, 2011, 02:29:53 AM
new video from Dr.Stiffler: http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr#p/a/u/0/-K5yyQgYdgo

Fausto.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on February 20, 2011, 04:34:25 PM
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on February 21, 2011, 02:04:50 AM
Is Dr. Stiffler still running this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYY7TqS380
via any power supply or does he just excite it
via this ground coil only ?

If this is really running only by hooking up this ground coil
and everything else is just resonance and no battery or
any other power supply input, that is really amazing.

I have read that he uses a special transistor with a special
negative resistor characteristic curve...

Does anybody know more ?

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 21, 2011, 01:24:36 PM
Is Dr. Stiffler still running this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYY7TqS380
via any power supply or does he just excite it
via this ground coil only ?

If this is really running only by hooking up this ground coil
and everything else is just resonance and no battery or
any other power supply input, that is really amazing.




I have read that he uses a special transistor with a special
negative resistor characteristic curve...

Does anybody know more ?

Many thanks.


  Yes, its still on Youtube.  Its what he doesn't show that is so aggravating.  He doesn't show starting it or show that it is a self starter.  He doesn't disconnect the ground and show that it stops and/or restarts during this process.  He doesn't show the resultant voltage on the rails of the Osc. while it is working (which I suspect are very high, bulging caps, blown LED's), or the current in the Osc. while running (which I suspect at resonance is fairly low).  Then goes entirely opposite of the wideband effect and he shows it locking in on one frequency while operational which shows resonance in the whole circuit.  To add insult to injury, he comes up with a Propriety transistor and of course no one but him "knows" what it is.

IF it is as shown, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, what a excellent example and demonstration of his SEC theory.  That he has been able to prevent run-away by loading the collector of the "transistor" via a AV plug, which de-tunes it under load with resultant negative feedback at that point, he is thus able to sustain a stable balanced operational system.  I suspect he has found a very high voltage transistor with negative resistance characteristics similar to the 2N2222 that when the fold back from the output, isolated via the 2 L3 coils, the third to ground, is phased correctly via resonance into the AV plug, results in OU from the SEC theoretical near field around the device.  The SEC provides the field but a lot of other theories have to fall into place for it to work and that is the genius of Stiffler.

Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: wings on February 21, 2011, 05:59:51 PM
exhibit negative resistance when reversed biased 2N2222, 2N3904 and 2N4401

http://www.tompolk.com/inventions/455_KHz_Oscillator/455_KHz_Oscillator.html

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cnr/negosc.htm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on February 21, 2011, 08:51:57 PM

  Yes, its still on Youtube.  Its what he doesn't show that is so aggravating.  He doesn't show starting it or show that it is a self starter.  He doesn't disconnect the ground and show that it stops and/or restarts during this process.  He doesn't show the resultant voltage on the rails of the Osc. while it is working (which I suspect are very high, bulging caps, blown LED's), or the current in the Osc. while running (which I suspect at resonance is fairly low).  Then goes entirely opposite of the wideband effect and he shows it locking in on one frequency while operational which shows resonance in the whole circuit.  To add insult to injury, he comes up with a Propriety transistor and of course no one but him "knows" what it is.

IF it is as shown, and I have no reason to believe it isn't, what a excellent example and demonstration of his SEC theory.  That he has been able to prevent run-away by loading the collector of the "transistor" via a AV plug, which de-tunes it under load with resultant negative feedback at that point, he is thus able to sustain a stable balanced operational system.  I suspect he has found a very high voltage transistor with negative resistance characteristics similar to the 2N2222 that when the fold back from the output, isolated via the 2 L3 coils, the third to ground, is phased correctly via resonance into the AV plug, results in OU from the SEC theoretical near field around the device.  The SEC provides the field but a lot of other theories have to fall into place for it to work and that is the genius of Stiffler.

Ben K4ZEP


Hi Ben,
yes, if that really is a selfrunning system I applaud Dr. Stiffler for his success.

I hope he will soon publish more about it.

Looking forward to see more of it.

As it is not running on the FM transmitter frequency, that
transmitter seems to have low impact on it, but maybe it helps to excite it
when it is started.

I hope he will soon share more insight into the circuit.
Yes, could be, that he just uses his N2222 transistor
wrong polarised so it acts as a negative resistor.

Maybe it is just something like a Mini-Kapanadze device
drawing the energy from the connected ground ?

Regards, Stefan.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 21, 2011, 11:21:57 PM
Hi Stefan,

I doubt it is a transistor backwards as a 2N2222 Neg. resistance Osc. more like a common emitter transistor operating in the negative region/avalanche mode.   I am looking forward to his next video should he so choose. 

Insight, waveforms, voltages, all would be helpful if he wants others to replicate.  Of course if he is just fishing for additional funding,
thats another story and over which we have no control and rightfully so.

With the information available, I can not connect the dots between the SEC theory and the Kapanadaze device.  I suspect the ground is a
reference or a potential stationary point in time for the SEC, not sure yet.

I do have a Spectrum analyzer in the mail as without it (I get darn serious when I get interested in something), I don't think I have a chance in heck of duplicating this device.  It simply is a necessary tool to go forward with this and other work of common interest.

Time will tell.

Ben





Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slapper on February 22, 2011, 02:09:29 AM
MPS06
with an hfe of 400 to 750
Vbe of .17

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540)

not sure who supplied this info
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 22, 2011, 04:50:33 AM
MPS06
with an hfe of 400 to 750
Vbe of .17

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540)

Ho boy, looks more and more like we are looking at a germanium transisotr, very early unit, high gain, Vbe of .17V has to be germanium, it was from this type of transistor late in the 50's the Tunnel diode was developed at Sony.......and the plot thickens.
Now if he was able to get a special run of these transistors in a TO-92 case, well throw all the stuff out the door.........

Ben



not sure who supplied this info
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slapper on February 22, 2011, 01:10:07 PM
I used the mpsa06's in projects a couple of decades ago.

Probably still have a lot of them laying around.

From what I recall they are a higher voltage, general purpose switcher with a decent gain.
Didn't care much for speed back then. Phone line switching 10 - 20 pulses per second.
Motorola was the oem.

Germanium's was my first reaction too. But the mpsa06's I'm used to were silicon.
Generally speaking Vbe's in silicon can be quite low if the currents are low.

But 0.17V is awfully low for silicon. Along with that Hfe? I'd like to see a curve trace with those spec's.

If there is a curve trace image available I'd run mine through a tracer and compare.

Take care.

nap
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on February 23, 2011, 04:29:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVFusWKCNc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on February 23, 2011, 08:32:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVFusWKCNc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

What is the circuit diagramm they show here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQBziLqMyA0

at about Minute 5:30 ?

Is this a Kapanadze device ?

Can somebody who speaks Russian please post a summary ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: gyulasun on February 23, 2011, 10:31:37 PM
Probably the schematic only shows a theoritical principle because in practice the resistive voltage dividers R1 and R2 would dissipate a lot of useful power (the total load current flows through R1 resistors) and would heat up...  is there so much plenty of energy coming from the Tesla coil??
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: wings on February 23, 2011, 10:34:51 PM
What is the circuit diagramm they show here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQBziLqMyA0

at about Minute 5:30 ?

Is this a Kapanadze device ?

Can somebody who speaks Russian please post a summary ?

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: tysb3 on February 23, 2011, 11:28:56 PM
@Stefan

they demonstrate only kacher + transformer Tesla and Avramenko diods.
from TT is going "cold" & "fast" electricity , which need  to be trasformed to "hot"&"slow" electricity.
the AC converter is under construction, its will to be about 11kwats (kacher input is about  40w)
for "effect" ou need to be TT >10Mz, >100Kv (300Kv)

sorry about my english.

edit:
diods is  need not be fast, because they need only to protect discharge capacitors  back to the TT coil. the "cold" electricity go through everything.

edit:
Dynatron told:
the biggest mistake of researchers is straight to put the load on the capacitors.
the "cold" electricity from capacitor needs to be loaded by the most biggest inductance of AC converter, to slow down "fast"&"cold" electricity .
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on February 23, 2011, 11:31:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkVFusWKCNc&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL
what does this have to do with stiffler's SEC circuits?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 24, 2011, 06:21:26 PM


Hey gang,  to those that like to see waveforms and spectrum analysis of the Stiffler and
add to your knowledge, check my latest video of the Stiffler SEC.  Slowly but surely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad_zsIOdeMY

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 25, 2011, 12:33:32 AM
Well gang, there are 3 more Stiffler videos on YouTube that pretty well show how he does that 3 coil version.  My Hat's off to him for giving everyone this guidance.  Schematic, tips, really first rate information. Emphasis on isolation, position, etc. 

Only thing he doesn't mention but once is that it has to be excited to start it, then it runs, if that is the way I heard it.  I have everything to build it, test it, just have to wind 3, 22uH coils and match them at their approximately 25mhz self resonant frequency.  It appears that the better you match the three coils, the better it will work.  Then too, why not excite the 3 coil system with a SEC board operating in low power mode, feeding power back into the SEC via the AV Plug.  As voltage and power loops back to the power rails and increases, it should then click into high power mode if kept on the right frequency and you have the best of both worlds. Just thinking out loud.

Right ON,
Ben






Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on February 25, 2011, 12:40:47 AM
Well gang, there are 3 more Stiffler videos on YouTube that pretty well show how he does that 3 coil version.  My Hat's off to him for giving everyone this guidance.  Schematic, tips, really first rate information. Emphasis on isolation, position, etc. 

Only thing he doesn't mention but once is that it has to be excited to start it, then it runs, if that is the way I heard it.  I have everything to build it, test it, just have to wind 3, 22uH coils and match them at their approximately 25mhz self resonant frequency.  It appears that the better you match the three coils, the better it will work.  Then too, why not excite the 3 coil system with a SEC board operating in low power mode, feeding power back into the SEC via the AV Plug.  As voltage and power loops back to the power rails and increases, it should then click into high power mode if kept on the right frequency and you have the best of both worlds. Just thinking out loud.

Right ON,
Ben

I thought it was 26.62uH.   Can you confirm it is 22?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 25, 2011, 01:48:07 AM
I thought it was 26.62uH.   Can you confirm it is 22?

Depending on part placement, and local interaction,  it could be anywhere anywhere between 22 and 26+uH. Any idea what value of C he is using?  Assume in the 50-470 pf range.????? Placement and coil interaction is so
tied in to what is going on......The old 22uh ferrite that was used earlier has a self res. of about 25 mhz.  Wind too many turns and
then trim 1 turn or 1/2 turn at a time till you are dead on whatever X2 frequency you want to use.  Then match the other two the same
exact frequency as you can do with your test equipment.  Heck, I'm wandering around here in a fog anyway!

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Freezer on February 25, 2011, 02:08:46 AM
Depending on part placement, and local interaction,  it could be anywhere anywhere between 22 and 26+uH. Any idea what value of C he is using?  Assume in the 50-470 pf range.????? Placement and coil interaction is so
tied in to what is going on......The old 22uh ferrite that was used earlier has a self res. of about 25 mhz.  Wind too many turns and
then trim 1 turn or 1/2 turn at a time till you are dead on whatever X2 frequency you want to use.  Then match the other two the same
exact frequency as you can do with your test equipment.  Heck, I'm wandering around here in a fog anyway!

Ben

I have no idea.  It seems he switched to a new cap in one of his latest setup, along with that transistor.

Heck, I'm wandering around here in a fog anyway!

Ben

I'm completely blind, but still try.  ;D


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on February 25, 2011, 04:24:20 AM
MPS06
with an hfe of 400 to 750
Vbe of .17

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=718.msg10540#msg10540)

not sure who supplied this info
i sent that info to poynt... i felt milehigh had his foot so far down his mouth he was probably choking.

Quote from: milehigh
The "special custom transistor" is also a big red flag that should make you very wary of what Mr. Stiffler is saying here.  If he said "specially qualified transistor" that would be a different thing, implying that he had to go through a batch of standard transistors to find one with performance characteristics that met his requirements.  However, I even find that logic to be very weak.  In my opinion there is almost no reason that the normal variability associated with a given transistor part number should pose a major problem for the type of stuff that he is doing.  Finally, if you take the literal interpretation of "special custom transistor" at face value, then that doesn't make much sense either.  Certainly no semiconductor company has made a "special custom transistor" for Mr. Stiffler because he would probably have to buy a million of them to get them to do a custom design just for him.  So that leaves him finding a non-standard transistor at an electronics recycling place and calling it a "special custom transistor."

MileHigh

being the nice guy i am, and despising logical fallacy the way i do, i thought i would set him (milehigh) straight. ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: slapper on February 25, 2011, 05:40:18 AM
WilbyInebriated - how many electronic design projects have you been involved with?

Never mind - I read that it was milehigh that needed that question. Must continue on......

Take care.

nap
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on February 25, 2011, 06:33:15 AM
WilbyInebriated - how many electronic design projects have you been involved with?

Never mind - I read that it was milehigh that needed that question. Must continue on......

Take care.

nap
hundreds, maybe thousands now, i design electronic projects all the time. i have never kept count. ;)

yup - indeed he does and a few more... ;) carry on

you too.

as an aside, the information i sent to poynt is nothing secret or something that only a select few were privy to. anyone who has been following stiffler's work with any sort of diligence would have been aware of this custom transistor... stiffler spoke of it awhile back and it's all in the public realm.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 25, 2011, 08:51:38 AM
hundreds, maybe thousands now, i design electronic projects all the time. i have never kept count. ;)

yup - indeed he does and a few more... ;) carry on

you too.

as an aside, the information i sent to poynt is nothing secret or something that only a select few were privy to. anyone who has been following stiffler's work with any sort of diligence would have been aware of this custom transistor... stiffler spoke of it awhile back and it's all in the public realm.

Interesting.  I seem to recall that MH had some problems understanding the JT circuit.  Go figure.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on February 25, 2011, 10:41:52 AM
Interesting.  I seem to recall that MH had some problems understanding the JT circuit.  Go figure.

Bill
;D he still has problems with the JT... stuck his foot in  mouth a couple times already in the OUR jt threads. now he is on to dynamometers, someone should tell him it's the engine that applies the load to the dyno... ;) and that a chassis dyno measures torque or power delivered to the simulated 'road' (read as dynamometer rollers) via the drive wheels and what type of "engine" (be it gas, electric, powered by mh's hot air or his mom in hamster wheel...) is being used is irrelevant... it's not an engine dyno being used... ::)

the more he tries to be an authority the less of one he becomes.

edit: for anyone about to tell me about absorption dyno's, don't. that's why there is a wink after that sentence.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on February 25, 2011, 12:48:51 PM
more tripe from milehigh:
Quote from: milehigh
In the real world you can't use high frequency AC for power transmission just like you can't use Bedini-style pulse motors as motors.  All of this stuff produces ridiculous amounts of interfering high-frequency EMI radiation and you wouldn't be able to use your cell phones, radios, or televisions.
i don't give a rat's ass about you or anyone else being able to use their entertainment gadgets. ignoring possible avenues of improvement so you can stare at the tv like a junkie is a thought process only someone like you could endorse... ::)

and for the record mh, i'm no fan of yours and i most certainly don't "follow" you. ::) you have nothing of interest to "follow"... i find it distasteful when you interject your personal brand of assumption science into topics that interest me. and when you look foolish with your foot so far down your throat you can hardly breath, i feel pity and say something... feel free to address this post over at our with a logical fallacy like you did the last one.

p.s. chet, not famous, infamous...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 25, 2011, 05:02:10 PM
Hi Gang,

Stiffler's 3 coil circuit works.  Checked Spectrum analyzer after video and it is Osc. all over the place,  seems to amplify all the signals over
a 2-300mhz band.  IF it locks in on a strong(just a few microvolts!)   enough local signal, lights led.
My coils are a bit smaller in inductance in the L1-3 coils of stiffler and open resonance is almost 50 mhz instead of the 26 to 28 mHz of his but
it definitely works.  Right on Dr. Stiffler.  Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLl0Vs-vO0w

Ben......from the worlds smallest lab....
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 26, 2011, 01:51:47 AM
OK running on ground currents only.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAXP-gnjATM

I"m tired, going to watch the boob tube with wife and relax tonight.

More tomorrow.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 26, 2011, 05:59:20 AM
High power on ground currents with excitation.  Time to work on looping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUhLyrDE2qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUhLyrDE2qw

OH, last time I put my face on a video, did it for a hoot.

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on February 26, 2011, 12:00:42 PM
High power on ground currents with excitation.  Time to work on looping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUhLyrDE2qw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUhLyrDE2qw

OH, last time I put my face on a video, did it for a hoot.

Ben

Great Work Ben. Thanks for sharing your experiments.  :)

I really would like to replicate your particular coil setup.
I listened to your videos and think I heard you say "air duct bmw 2 inch coils, 25 turns".

What sort of wire are you using ? (Aluminium ? Insulated? Sorry, I couldn't tell from the video).
How thick is it? (gauge ?)
Where might I search to source some of it?

Thanks in advance if you choose to answer my query and for any further information regarding coil construction.

Oh, and the face was a hoot  :P

Cheers from hoptoad,  ....... KneeDeep
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: duff on February 26, 2011, 01:46:41 PM

You can get the wire sizes and dimensions off the AirDuct Site.

AirDux Air Wound Coils: http://www.airdux.com/ (http://www.airdux.com/)


Cheaper to make: http://www.eham.net/articles/23124 (http://www.eham.net/articles/23124)

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 26, 2011, 01:56:23 PM
Great Work Ben. Thanks for sharing your experiments.  :)

I really would like to replicate your particular coil setup.
I listened to your videos and think I heard you say "air duct bmw 2 inch coils, 25 turns".

What sort of wire are you using ? (Aluminium ? Insulated? Sorry, I couldn't tell from the video).
How thick is it? (gauge ?)
Where might I search to source some of it?

Thanks in advance if you choose to answer my query and for any further information regarding coil construction.

Oh, and the face was a hoot  :P

Cheers from hoptoad,  ....... KneeDeep

Morning HopToad,

I have had a coil laying around for several years that was just available.  It is a B&W Airdux  "TZ" 1608TL, 2" diameter, 8 turns/inch, total of 80 turns. I think it is copper with silver coating.  A VERY nice coil. 

http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/coilcat.htm

Very expensive but I got it off Ebay years ago for less than $10.00.

I then cut it into 3 equal sections of 25 turns each, 17.01uh. but believe it or not, had to tweak them for matching as far as self resonance frequency.  TRY EBAY, there is always a lot of Air Dux, mini inductor, roller inductor as search perimeters.  I am certain a nice coil, hand wound on an insulated form would work just fine as in Dr. Stiffler's L3 coils.  Just remember they HAVE TO BE MATCHED in a active self resonance test.  Hope this helps.

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on February 27, 2011, 04:18:05 AM
Ben,
You are most definately a "master"!I cannot imagine the patience you must have,
Thank you for sharing your skills and hard work with us!
Boy I hope you get the "Loop"!

From "the edge of the chair"
Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hoptoad on February 27, 2011, 11:36:27 AM
You can get the wire sizes and dimensions off the AirDuct Site.
AirDux Air Wound Coils: http://www.airdux.com/ (http://www.airdux.com/)
Cheaper to make: http://www.eham.net/articles/23124 (http://www.eham.net/articles/23124)

Thanks Duff, ...

Morning HopToad,
I have had a coil laying around for several years that was just available.  It is a B&W Airdux  "TZ" 1608TL, 2" diameter, 8 turns/inch, total of 80 turns. I think it is copper with silver coating.  A VERY nice coil. 
http://www.bwantennas.com/coils/coilcat.htm
Very expensive but I got it off Ebay years ago for less than $10.00.
I then cut it into 3 equal sections of 25 turns each, 17.01uh. but believe it or not, had to tweak them for matching as far as self resonance frequency.  TRY EBAY, there is always a lot of Air Dux, mini inductor, roller inductor as search perimeters.  I am certain a nice coil, hand wound on an insulated form would work just fine as in Dr. Stiffler's L3 coils.  Just remember they HAVE TO BE MATCHED in a active self resonance test.  Hope this helps.

Respectfully
Ben K4ZEP

And Thanks Ben .... the info is greatly appreciated.

Now to leap where no toad has leapt before! And hopefully, not just E'Bay  :D

Cheers
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: k4zep on February 27, 2011, 01:20:29 PM
Thanks Duff, ...

And Thanks Ben .... the info is greatly appreciated.

Now to leap where no toad has leapt before! And hopefully, not just E'Bay  :D

Cheers

Hi Gang,

Just remember I used the manufactured coil material for a quick test as I had it laying around in the junk box.  Little did I realize that "Quick" is not part of experimental electronics..... A very nice hand wound coil on good low loss material is just as good if not better. Remember that Dr. Stiffler has a reason for EVERYTHING that he does, emulate it in physical construction and you won't go wrong!

Respect to all

Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on February 27, 2011, 09:14:30 PM
Very well done Ben !

Could you please post a circuit digramm ?
On your videos it is pretty hard to see.

Any please try to switch and disconnect all your scope heads
and signal generator and just hook it to a ground pole and
see, if your LED still lights up.

Is there any big broadcast station near you ?

Would be interesting to see, if you get it to run on
a SEC with looping feedback as Stiffler did without any power supply.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: 4Tesla on March 08, 2011, 09:14:18 PM
This is a huge thread.. not going to take the time to search if these have been posted or not.

Dr Stiffler's new YouTube Channel (3 months old)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr

Self Oscillating Hybrid Exciter #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYY7TqS380

Driving LED, No Battery and No Transistor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIIhgHTEoM0

New article over at PESWiki (March 5th):
http://pesn.com/2011/03/05/9501780_Stiffler_Frequency_Amplification_Effect_Replicated/


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on March 08, 2011, 09:38:31 PM
This is a huge thread.. not going to take the time to search if these have been posted or not.

Dr Stiffler's new YouTube Channel (3 months old)
http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr

Self Oscillating Hybrid Exciter #3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXYY7TqS380

Driving LED, No Battery and No Transistor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIIhgHTEoM0

New article over at PESWiki (March 5th):
http://pesn.com/2011/03/05/9501780_Stiffler_Frequency_Amplification_Effect_Replicated/
@4tesla: rather than trying to go through this large thread looking for your links, simply use the site's search function. click on the search button in the main site navigation menu and copy/paste your link and then hit search. if this thread comes up in the results you know it has been previously posted.
hope that helps.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on March 22, 2011, 02:50:29 AM
Dr.Stiffler has posted now the circuit at his website:
http://www.drstiffler.com/ce4.asp
@all + hartiberlin
I get this error message for the 'Web address above:

http://67.76.235.52/invalid/invalidpg.htm

Just so you know.  And I just rechecked it a few seconds ago.

--Lee
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on March 22, 2011, 02:56:54 AM
Sorry!

This Link is no longer valid.

The link is KA PUT

Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on March 22, 2011, 03:30:16 AM
Sorry!
This Link is no longer valid.
The link is KA PUT
Chet
Is Dr. Stiffler still around to post results on the 'Web?

He was active on OU.com recently.  He had several papers on his old site I wanted to download.

--Lee
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: 4Tesla on March 22, 2011, 03:57:43 AM
Is Dr. Stiffler still around to post results on the 'Web?

He was active on OU.com recently.  He had several papers on his old site I wanted to download.

--Lee

Here are some of his documents:
http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/6820479
http://67.76.235.52/contents.htm
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on March 23, 2011, 12:35:13 AM
Here are some of his documents:
http://www.scribd.com/people/documents/6820479
http://67.76.235.52/contents.htm
Thanks.  I'll see what I can do with them.

--Lee
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: FreeEnergyInfo on April 13, 2011, 06:44:52 PM
INFO
http://freeenergylt.narod2.ru/vladimir_pantiuhov/
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 17, 2011, 08:45:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr#p/a/u/0/la2rbeVlBhA
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on June 27, 2011, 12:42:55 AM
to whom it may concern:
Quote from: dr.stiffler
Remember ECAT, now we have Poly-Phase SEC 18-x in self run mode with source battery recharge.

See what will be video streamed with quantitative on screen measurements, soon...

www.stifflerscientific.com
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Jimboot on June 27, 2011, 02:48:13 PM
Wow didn't  realize this thread was here. Just got finished watching @lid motor latest on yt where he mentioned this thread.  I've been using a pn200 transistor on 7v dc. I get plasma in xenon & argon globes, light 4' cfl, 24 white led 240v light, etc all the normal stuff. The circuit consists solely of the tranny an primary an secondary coils. Runs continuously for days without heating up. So no other components for those wanting to start simply to try this out. My YouTube channel is http://YouTube.com/jimboot2 . It's been hard to measure voltage etc here's a vid i did using a av plug to measure. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9Ka-Wm75-0 @slider @lid motor @bluer @johnnydarvo have been very helpful! If anyone want a circuit diagram let me know but it's a pretty simple setup
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: e2matrix on June 28, 2011, 02:44:42 AM
Good one jimboot !  Hilarious - can we call that the Adams family effect :D
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Jimboot on June 28, 2011, 12:51:57 PM
@e2matrix Heheheh gotta remember to laugh right?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on June 28, 2011, 09:28:35 PM
@all + hartiberlin
I get this error message for the 'Web address above:

http://67.76.235.52/invalid/invalidpg.htm

Just so you know.  And I just rechecked it a few seconds ago.

--Lee
Okay, I think I finally stumbled on the answer:

http://67.76.235.52/

This loads and runs(I just checked with 'Preview'), so it might have been that this site was offline for maintenance or backup of data?  It does run now.

--Lee
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 06, 2011, 08:26:35 PM
Lee:

That was a spammer and it has been removed and he will be deleted by Stefan.  These are hard for me to keep up with sometimes, they seem to be everywhere.

Please note that I also deleted your message only because you quoted the spam address and it should not remain on here.  Feel free to repost it leaving off the spamed address if you want to.

I have removed about 20 of these same links in the past several weeks...probably all the same guy under different user names.  Like you said, what good is it as it appears to be in Russian language...he probably gets paid for the "hits" when we go check it out.

If I did not explain this correctly, please feel free to pm me.

Thanks,

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: the_big_m_in_ok on July 08, 2011, 08:26:53 PM
Lee:
That was a spammer and it has been removed and he will be deleted by Stefan.  These are hard for me to keep up with sometimes, they seem to be everywhere. ...
Right, Pirate, thank you.  If I run into any more, or something I otherwise think is fishy, should I bring it to someone like you, or merely warn others---or both?

--Lee
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 08, 2011, 11:45:43 PM
Right, Pirate, thank you.  If I run into any more, or something I otherwise think is fishy, should I bring it to someone like you, or merely warn others---or both?

--Lee

Just copy and paste it in a pm to Stefan and he will take care of it.

Thanks Lee.

Bill
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Wolfgang29 on July 09, 2011, 04:09:06 AM
Hey everyone,
I'm pretty new to this particular thread, but I'm truly fascinated with all of Dr. Stiffler's work.
Currently I am teaching myself some basics to electronics and am truly enjoying it. In fact, I actually am going to build/solder myself an LC meter in the next couple weeks to help measure out the proper inductance of some of my coils for the SEC 15  however I'm still a bit of a noob to it all; so please bear with me. I have noticed that on the schematics for the SEC 15 from Dr. Stifflers website there are .01uF, .1uF, and 10uF capacitors; however,when I went to jameco.com to order the correct parts to replicate the circuit, there were multiple voltage ratings for the same values of capacitance. For instance, I found .01 uF caps ranging from 35v to 50v to even 100v. I sense that since this circuit creates some high voltage that perhaps the 100v versions are best (?) Again I may be missing something obvious since I'm a noob, but I would appreciate any advice from replicators as to what voltage these caps need to be. Thank you all. Im posting the circuit from Dr. Stiffler's site for reference. I hope this is not a faux pas.  ???

ps  any advice on the 1 megaohm resistor... 1/8W, 1/4W, 1/2W? Thank you all so much for the help and patience in advance.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on July 09, 2011, 04:58:37 AM
50V 10uF on the electrolytic cap. 1/8th watt should be fine on the 1 megaohm resistor. hope that helps.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Jimboot on July 09, 2011, 03:40:16 PM
Hi all just uploaded another vid demonstrating my  transistor circuit with no other components. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB9qSB0XM0o
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Wolfgang29 on July 10, 2011, 10:24:09 PM
WilbyInebriated, Thank you so much. That really helps. I'm guessing the .01 uF ceramic caps are also 50v in that circuit? Thanks again!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dimbulb on July 19, 2011, 07:44:33 PM
From what I have gathered regarding the spectral output of the SEC:
When all the coils are together in position and the oscillator tuned
there can be seen on spec analyzer what is termed the UWB (ultra wide band).
The UWB is composed of one or more stimulus frequency and its group.

These are not harmonics per say but is the product of the SEC when properly assembled.

Amoung these particular stimulus frequencies used in the SEC setup, some have been found to
stimulate or vibrate the lattice.

To reduce measurement errors test jigs made of plexiglass should be used.
For the SEC to produce the correct UWB it needs to operate the way it does.
It would not be productive to approach this as radio or what traditional exciters do.

I think the when the sec free wheels, the composite band spectra interacts with the
surrounding environment setting up a field.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Wolfgang29 on July 25, 2011, 09:06:01 PM
Does anyone know anything or reproduced anything related to Dr. stiffler's ECAT (Energy conversion by articulated transfer)? http://67.76.235.52/ecat2004.htm
It seems to use a polyphase transformer to possibly maximize the number of frequencies received in ambient energy, and then coheres them all into a a composite of usable power possibly greater than the sum of their parts. There is a bare bones schematic on there, but i dont quite know how to build a polyphase transformer. So anyone with know-how, thoughts, conjecture, or experience replicating this device, please help! I am truly in awe of this concept.
Also, if this is something i should start a separate thread about, please let me know too.

thanks all!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Wolfgang29 on August 06, 2011, 05:17:14 AM
@ Double... What was not pleasant?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on September 04, 2011, 09:50:33 PM
The Doctor has outdone himself again with a great new
PSEC circuit running itsself without any power supply:

Lighting about  30 LEDs pretty brightly without any power input.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDl0rXL2NuM

Well Done Dr. Stiffler !

I hope he can show it again  running inside a Faraday cage,
so the Naysayers can´t claim that there is a transmitter somewhere in the
background.

Great achievement !

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DrStiffler on September 04, 2011, 10:36:19 PM
The Doctor has outdone himself again with a great new
PSEC circuit running itsself without any power supply:

Lighting about  30 LEDs pretty brightly without any power input.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDl0rXL2NuM

Well Done Dr. Stiffler !

I hope he can show it again  running inside a Faraday cage,
so the Naysayers can´t claim that there is a transmitter somewhere in the
background.

Great achievement !

Regards, Stefan.

If you would also watch video #2 or PSEC 2 of 3 you would understand why you suggestion is invalid and has no significance with the PSEC.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: conradelektro on September 04, 2011, 10:41:14 PM
Dr. Stiffler shows PSEC-Videos on his You Tube channel http://www.youtube.com/user/StifflerDr as Stefan tells in his last post.


My questions (may be I missed something):

Is it possible to replicate a PSEC? Is the circuit publicly available with sufficient information to allow for replication?


Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: conradelektro on September 04, 2011, 10:47:00 PM
I just saw that Dr.Stiffler posted in this thread a few minutes ago.

@Dr.Stiffler:

Dear Sir, is it your intention that everybody can replicate your PSEC? In case this is your intention, where can I find the circuit and further details?

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on September 04, 2011, 11:05:46 PM
If you would also watch video #2 or PSEC 2 of 3 you would understand why you suggestion is invalid and has no significance with the PSEC.

Sorry, did not watch this video to the end yet, but now have.

Okay, you excite it with around 13 Mhz, but you run at a gain...
Maybe it is then simular to the Morray circuit that needed also an excitation
(but the Morray circuit probably worked on amplification induced via
radioactive decay material)

So you excite it with your weak about 13 Mhz signal and
can produce high gain so you can light up 30 LEDs.
Is this right ?

How much is the power amplification in the PSEC then ?

Many thanks.
Looking forward to hear and see more.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: 14 Mhz background noise ...
Post by: stephenafreter on September 06, 2011, 05:20:47 PM
14 Mhz background noise ... Radio amateur band ?!

1-The Yagi antenna is the most popular directional array on the radio amateur bands from 14MHz through VHF and UHF where tv is. It is sometimes seen on the 30 and 40 meter bands too.

2- GENERAL TELEVISION FREQUENCIES :
Sub CATV Band - T7 - T13   = 7 - 48 MHz
T8 = 13 MHz
quote:
"CATV has channels with frequencies below channel 2. They are designated T-7 (tee seven or tee dash seven) through T-14 and are usually used for transmission in the reverse direction. If your local city council meeting is broadcast live, the camera is being modulated onto one of those T channels and sent back up to the cable system headend whereupon it is broadcast outbound on the community cable access channel." from http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/catvfreq.html

3- Kanzius frequency =  13.56 MHz

4- ISM band = Center frequency 13.560 MHz
quote 1 :
The industrial, scientific and medical (ISM) radio bands are radio bands (portions of the radio spectrum) reserved internationally for the use of radio frequency (RF) energy for industrial, scientific and medical purposes other than communications. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISM_band
quote 2 :
The ISM bands are also widely used for Radio-frequency identification (RFID) applications with the most commonly used band being the 13.56 MHz band used by systems compliant with ISO/IEC 14443 including those used by biometric passports and contactless smart cards.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Wolfgang29 on September 07, 2011, 02:32:35 AM
@ Conradelektro, and all

About the circuit, it's supposed to be very similar to the SEC 18 from what I understand, but with a removal of the transistor (MPSA06 in our case), as well as a removal of the 1 MOhm resistor. One can keep the transistor provided he detach the Base (?) leg of the transistor. Or on can also use a diode in place of the transistor, If I'm not mistaken,not sure of diode polarity. Also tuning the amount of mass (floating ground i believe) is important to the function of the circuit. Does anyone have a schemy of a SEC 18? That would be super helpful in all of us replicating the PSEC. This seems simple enough to at least build. the hard part may be tuning, but with this type of thing it is surely worth it. Also, watch the video of Dr. Stiffler charging and discharging a capacitor, Imagine then coupling that discharge with a timed captret (can to positive) based discharge in addition to the normal discharge. powerful stuff. Thanks all!
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: conradelektro on September 07, 2011, 10:06:09 AM
@stephenafreter: thank you for providing the info about the 13 - 14 MHz range. I wanted to find just that.

@Wolfgang29: as far as I understand, removing the base of the transistor in a transistor oscillation circuit stops the oscillation. It might still somehow function as a rectifier in case an oscillation is fed into the circuit e.g. by an antenna.

But I always find it pretty useless when someone shows a video or reports a finding without providing the details. Without the schematics and details of the components no useful experiments and no intelligent discussions are possible.

So, I wait till Dr.Stiffler comes forward with useful info. If he does not want to do that, fine, what can you do besides forgetting the whole thing? The thread has 197 pages without telling anything but claims and riddles.

"Hey, look at my videos and read what great thing I have built, but I will not tell you what it is!"

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: WilbyInebriated on September 07, 2011, 10:50:19 PM
as far as I understand, removing the base of the transistor in a transistor oscillation circuit stops the oscillation. It might still somehow function as a rectifier in case an oscillation is fed into the circuit e.g. by an antenna.
regarding the base of the transistor... see the 'esaki effect'.

But I always find it pretty useless when someone shows a video or reports a finding without providing the details. Without the schematics and details of the components no useful experiments and no intelligent discussions are possible.
schematics and details of the components have been provided...  ::) useful experiments and intelligent discussions have ensued. check your reading and comprehension skills...

So, I wait till Dr.Stiffler comes forward with useful info. If he does not want to do that, fine, what can you do besides forgetting the whole thing? The thread has 197 pages without telling anything but claims and riddles.

"Hey, look at my videos and read what great thing I have built, but I will not tell you what it is!"

Greetings, Conrad
stiffler has already come forward with more than enough info... but it's kind of cumulative. perhaps you should learn to crawl before you attempt to run.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dimbulb on September 07, 2011, 11:28:09 PM
The spatial coherent (RF) is a field of science like spatial coherent (optical) however there are major differences.
There are many different circuits and this may be confusing. There are few differences from SEC15 and SEC18
The PSEC shows another arangement, The circuits have different charecteristecs, it can be your choice.

Again looking at this science field of Spatial coherence, there are no books written yet. The books on optical spatial coherence
are a few,  and the approach was from physics. The Stiffler SEC approach is electronic radio engineering and efforts are to work towards
physics.  So you can imagine the frustration.  At this point the physics work needs to happen, the meaningful discussion
of a field of science is better built on fact rather than speculation. Imagine trying to get a physics professional read garbage
posted links that make no sense and are not related. The forum encourages an exchange but what happens when it succeeds.

I find the complaints unfounded as I see video close ups, diagrams pdf documentation. Yes I agree we are used to
standard data sheets and part numbers but a little work you can build this if you have a spectrum analyzer
and start with the SEC 15 you would quickly find matching spectrum. The tolerances need to be exact and this project
is more for the advanced level. This is why there has been little physics help. The field is new and you learn to do this
by the seat of your pants. And no there are no hidden transmitters, they would show on the spec analyzer.

It is unfortunate that he does'nt ship the boards out of the U.S.A, I am not sure of all the reasons the later versions
disclosure was not exacting but could be figured out.  As an open source project the basic information was made available.
It is evident that others could replicate the project. In my notebook I collected all the pdfs and circuits I could find and download
the videos, It is important to do this.  With the info make nice circuit boards and get the right parts.
much sucess to you, special thanks to those contributing and hosting.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Wolfgang29 on September 08, 2011, 03:17:08 AM
@Wilbyinebriated & dimbulb Thank you for those comments, I too feel that while sometimes it might be easier to have everything just handed to us, what then would be the point of this forum even? what might be the point of anything. Dr. stiffler gives us much detailed info as it is. Im sure if we organically and creatively explore the PSEC, we may begin to not only have the same device as Dr. Stiffler, but more importantly, the same Understanding, and from that further invention may come. Experiential knowledge seems to be key in so much of this. I am just starting with my SEC experiments, I will work off of the SEC 15 and see if I can modify it into a PSEC format, I'm wondering though if the inductance of the coils  for the PSEC are the same, as in tuned approximately the same as SEC modules...
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: hartiberlin on November 02, 2011, 01:19:59 AM
Am I understanding it right that the last few videos from Dr. Stiffler
like this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pff8hqqCbWs

all show selfrunning systems with no input DC power supply and that he just locks
his circuit onto this 13 to 14 Mhz range signal ?

If that is true and he can amplify the power to the
level shown as lighting 48 white LEDs pretty brightly
it is hard to see exactly, if his equipment in the room and the
nearby FM transmission tower have anything to do with this
output, or if he really only uses a milli- or microwatts excitation
from the 14 Mhz signal to generate about the half to 1 Watts power for
the 48 LEDs output ?

Would really appreaciate it, if the Doc can make these videos
also once at another remote location, where there is no equipment in the background
and no FM transmission tower near to it...

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on November 02, 2011, 02:13:32 AM
   @ All:
   His SEC-18 boards are available, for those that want to try it. He would like to see us replicate his findings, and also share and add to what he has found.
  I believe that the board cost about $43 or so including shipping, with an extra transistor.  Although he will not ship overseas, it can be sent to or shipped to someone in the U.S. that will take care of that part, and send it, or bring it to you, if you live outside the U.S.
  He has mentioned before that he does not think that the input that he is receiving, is coming from Radio or Tv stations, or the Grid.
  I hope that he doesn't mind me answering,  just trying to help.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on November 03, 2011, 02:23:04 AM
   @ All:
   I just wanted to add that Dr. Stiffler is certain that he is not seeing the input energy as coming from any station signals or from the grid. This he has just confirmed to me. So, I'm just relaying this to clarify any doubts, I may have given before about his thinking this were true, instead of knowing it to be true.
  I certainly don't want to make any comments that are out context.
  I hope this lays things straight.
                                                 NickZ
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: OldHatNewColor on November 03, 2011, 07:22:01 AM
I have an idea.

It seems, in my mind, at least.... That Ronald Stiffler isn't interested in every hack in the pack to tinker with his circuit. Rather he'd like to have a few key individual collaborators.

Unfortunately, I do not fit the bill:

1. I live in Canada, I can't buy it.
2. I do not have a spectrum analyzer, nor do I have a signal generator.

So,... who amongst us, has the equipment and the knowledge?

I am willing to help financially. Others may chip in too.

Let's pick a good candidate, throw a few bucks his way, and put this to rest. It's too interesting to not have someone at least give a solid try at it.

Cheers
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: mlurye on December 22, 2011, 03:03:22 AM
Hello everyone,
 I was playing with SEC exciter and noticed something interesting. I was driving ~40 white LEDs placed on a breadboard and turned exciter off. And when I touched breadboard all LEDs flashed. After I didn't turn exciter anymore but I've got zapped multiple times from breadboard. And now when I touch breadboard every 2-3 min I'm getting LEDs flash. I did touch ground prior touching breadboard still getting flash, so it doesn't look like I'm caring static charge.
 If someone can replicate it or can give some explanation I would real appreciate it.
 To replicate: Connect aluminum block to AV plug and ~40 LEDs all placed on a breadboard. To get a flash touch AV plug. (It works when air is dry, doesn't when humid.)
 P.S. Intensity of flashes changes with time from barely visible to fairly bright.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Paul-R on December 22, 2011, 07:20:47 PM
I do not have a spectrum analyzer, nor do I have a signal generator.


These are available as free public domain software. The quality (bandwidth0
may be enough.

Here are a few sources. Try them:
http://shareware.cnet.com/ (http://shareware.cnet.com/)
         
http://tcv3.tucows.com (http://tcv3.tucows.com)                  http://www.winsite.com/ (http://www.overunity.com/view-source:http://www.winsite.com/)
http://www.sharewareconnection.com/ (http://www.overunity.com/view-source:http://www.sharewareconnection.com/)
http://www.driverfiles.net/ (http://www.overunity.com/view-source:http://www.driverfiles.net/)
http://sourceforge.net/ (http://www.overunity.com/view-source:http://sourceforge.net/)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: firstmm5 on November 11, 2012, 03:09:16 PM
I have not read any comments validating that Dr R. Stiffler is using techniques developed by Nicoli Tesla, and in fact he is.   Also, the key element in generating the free energy is the SEC.  Build it and hook it up and you're good to go.  Also,  electricity is not produced across the broad band spectrum but only at the resonant frequency.  This is also key. As with all free energy, there is a specified frequency at which there is an almost unlimited supply of energy, but not at any other frequency.  These devices and this technology is what is going to to take us into the 22nd Century. Check out www. PaneAndov.com  - he talks about a power device on an underground tube transport system (that he was on/in) and he states that when the device powers up, it emits a blue light.  This is cold electricity.  It is the most efficient, and it comes from all matter, around us in the universe! Do the research and you will begin to put the puzzle pieces together.   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dieter on February 10, 2014, 11:29:15 AM
Have to agree with conrad. All pdf links are dead. Website down. ou.com Download section has nothing about sec or stiffler.


Is it so hard to upload a freakin diagram? I've spent couple of hours tryin to find something other than blurry tube vids.
Has Anybody a working link to those pdfs?


Or is it a 42$ or the highway thing.


No offence tho. I wouldn't be interested if it wasn't promising.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2014, 01:16:47 AM
Actually, for once google appeared to be pretty useful, a search for stiffler and diagram brings up a lot of images and also leads to sites like this one:


pvb.pavlabor.net/SE/FreeEnergy_27.01.08/Схемотехнические/Генератор%20Dr_%20Ronald/Dr_%20Ronald%20Stiffler%201.htm


That I'd suggest to backup locally. I have to say: A device that powers 32 Leds and has nothing else connected but ground, that's awesome and certainly worth 42 bucks. Esp. when you consider the difficulties in tuning it by your own, which seems to be the hard part.


Although it was said that this does not simply suck in inductive current or RF from nearby devices, I yet'd like to see it operating in nature, far from any electrical installation. When it is still working out there, then this is truely Free Energy, if not OU.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: seychelles on June 27, 2017, 06:13:25 AM
OVER THE YEARS  I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING FOR THE MOST EFFICIENT CIRCUIT OF
RESONANCE, THIS ONE HAS TO BE THE MOST SIMPLE AND MOST EFFICIENT I HAVE
ENCOUNTERED.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: seychelles on June 27, 2017, 06:39:05 AM
AND THE SAME.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: seychelles on June 29, 2017, 03:30:22 AM
an other interesting simple circuit.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AlienGrey on November 27, 2017, 02:19:31 PM
Educational interest , any one interested in this device ? it was published a good few years ago 2007 hmm!
In his debunked web site I rescued this device it looked very impressive  powering a 40 watt
incandescent lamp, but none of the values are listed.

any one got Dr Ronald stifflers E- mail ?

the poly phase tx is a choke from a PW powr input section (it produces narrow spikes) and has a tank output coil.

 Space Energy Coherence
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: AlienGrey on November 28, 2017, 08:41:11 AM
Stiffler replication

No 2 in a number of vids

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GufTw6ECoz4

AG
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: antimony on November 28, 2017, 04:14:48 PM
I have had some correspondance with him later with him through his old email adress embarqmail something.

It can be found in his pdf's.

That one that Alien posted is very interesting indeed.
Have you replicated it in any way?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: antimony on November 29, 2017, 04:07:58 PM
I have had some correspondance with him later with him through his old email adress embarqmail something.

It can be found in his pdf's.

That one that Alien posted is very interesting indeed.
Have you replicated it in any way?

http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/ecat2004.htm.html
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: seychelles on May 27, 2018, 05:21:57 AM
IT IS GREAT TO SEE DR STIFFLER BACK DOING HIS GREAT WORK AGAIN.
THANKS FOR SHARING DR STIFFLER.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TC7GgyWluY
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: erfandl on May 27, 2018, 07:41:43 AM
IT IS GREAT TO SEE DR STIFFLER BACK DOING HIS GREAT WORK AGAIN.
THANKS FOR SHARING DR STIFFLER.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TC7GgyWluY
Hi. is any schematic of this circuit ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Cherryman on May 27, 2018, 09:07:24 AM
Hi. is any schematic of this circuit ?


Lidmotor did a partial replication


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNMsynVKngo
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: erfandl on May 27, 2018, 10:37:06 AM

Lidmotor did a partial replication


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNMsynVKngo
thanks for reply  ;)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on January 20, 2019, 05:57:07 PM
Well..
not sure if it has been mentioned here ?..but it seems the Doc may have passed ?
Inquorate says so here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-76.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-76.html)
??
respectfully..
Chet
edit to Add Energetic forum image..
and a link where inquorate will be explaining Docs work ?..
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBnO2i7wr6vVxUSPGdtFthA-go6FiXAMr (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBnO2i7wr6vVxUSPGdtFthA-go6FiXAMr)
tomorrow is a holiday here [Martin Luther King day
I will call on Tuesday to confirm [ I had thought / read somewhere Dr.Stiffler was older than this ?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: seychelles on January 20, 2019, 08:11:06 PM
May GOD YAHWEH open the door of paradise to you
RONALD STIFFLER, in the name of JESUS.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Jeg on January 21, 2019, 01:16:29 PM
Μy condolences to his family. An other great loss for the community. May rest in peace.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: F6FLT on January 23, 2019, 11:44:10 AM
Dr. Stiffler has often played with LEDs. I've never seen overunity but his idea of diodes simply immersed in an electrolytic solution, and at the terminals of which bubbles appeared when currents were induced thanks to a remote coil, was brilliant. I duplicated this experiment, it is explainable but quite surprising and original. He knew how to get off the beaten track.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on January 23, 2019, 07:16:55 PM
I think the bubbles might be explainable if we consider that the charge going on to the LED is not conventional electricity. If it is pure dieclectricity, this may be responsible for fracturing the water's molecular bonds - hence the bubbles.
Bob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: lancaIV on January 23, 2019, 10:46:13 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminescence
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: F6FLT on January 24, 2019, 03:40:47 PM
I think the bubbles might be explainable if we consider that the charge going on to the LED is not conventional electricity. If it is pure dieclectricity, this may be responsible for fracturing the water's molecular bonds - hence the bubbles.
Bob
Why invent new theories when conventional theories perfectly explain the effect while explaining many others?


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on January 27, 2019, 06:04:04 PM
Conventional theories are theories. They are formulated within a prevailing EM theory paradigm.  No doubt bubbles on the electrodes can be explained from within the conventional EM paradigm and its prevailing theories.

Eric Dollard and Tom Brown showed resonance in RLC systems separating magnetism from dielectricity. The implications for this demonstration are far reaching. One of them is the fracturing of water. Think about Stan Meyer's work.


See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc&t=1385s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc&t=1385s)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: F6FLT on January 30, 2019, 01:19:47 PM
Conventional theories are theories. They are formulated within a prevailing EM theory paradigm.  No doubt bubbles on the electrodes can be explained from within the conventional EM paradigm and its prevailing theories.

Eric Dollard and Tom Brown showed resonance in RLC systems separating magnetism from dielectricity. The implications for this demonstration are far reaching. One of them is the fracturing of water. Think about Stan Meyer's work.


See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc&t=1385s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnCUBKgnnc&t=1385s)

"Conventional theories are theories": yes, but you seem to have forgotten their framework. These are scientific theories, so:
- they are falsifiable (in the sense of Karl Popper)
- they have been verified by observations and measurements
- they are capable of quantified predictions of phenomena

Eric Dollard and Tom Brown didn't show anything at all like that.

- they present banal phenomena that can be explained perfectly with classical theories without introducing hypothetical longitudinal waves
- their theory does not predict anything new that would be different from what classical theories predict.

So their theory is useless, it's a pseudo-theory based on misinterpretation of facts.  Science is not done on youtube.


Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on February 01, 2019, 12:10:05 AM
Thank you for letting me know where you stand.
Bob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on February 01, 2019, 01:10:08 AM
I am just reposting the sad news since this has gone to another page
..Chet
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: blueplanet on February 01, 2019, 09:09:18 AM
It is sad.

Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: seychelles on February 02, 2019, 11:16:12 AM
WHY IS IT SAD.? HE WAS LIVING AND HE DIED. BUT HE SHARED EVERYTHING HE HAD TO SHARE
FREELY TO US WHO WANT TO LEARN..THANK YOU MR RONALD STIFFLER, MAY OUR EVER LOVING
GOD OF ALL CREATIONS OPEN THE DOOR OF PARADISE TO YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on February 03, 2019, 05:13:02 AM
WHY IS IT SAD.? HE WAS LIVING AND HE DIED. BUT HE SHARED EVERYTHING HE HAD TO SHARE
FREELY TO US WHO WANT TO LEARN..THANK YOU MR RONALD STIFFLER, MAY OUR EVER LOVING
GOD OF ALL CREATIONS OPEN THE DOOR OF PARADISE TO YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS.
I agree. While sad that he is gone, he enriched our knowledge by generously sharing his research. May he be richly rewarded in the next life.

Two things I find very important in Doc's work:
- Spatial Self Resonant Frequency
- Pinging the spatio-temporal lattice and cohering a charge from its response


Stiffler showed that Spatial Self Resonant Frequency was crucial to his Spatial Energy Coherer's functioning.  It is clear that the SEC is an open system - that is, it interacts with the ambient environment to draw (cohere) charge from it and into his circuit.


So how can we apply the concept of spatial self resonant frequency to continue Doc Stiffler's work of cohering charge from the local environment?


Bob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: seychelles on February 03, 2019, 11:19:48 AM
I have been in the electronic business for 40 years and i have not seen
a more efficient simple circuit as the SEC.. Just to note there is no such thing a
a close loop system. Ether interacts with every single thing..
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on February 04, 2019, 01:54:11 AM
I agree. While sad that he is gone, he enriched our knowledge by generously sharing his research. May he be richly rewarded in the next life.

Two things I find very important in Doc's work:
- Spatial Self Resonant Frequency
- Pinging the spatio-temporal lattice and cohering a charge from its response


Stiffler showed that Spatial Self Resonant Frequency was crucial to his Spatial Energy Coherer's functioning.  It is clear that the SEC is an open system - that is, it interacts with the ambient environment to draw (cohere) charge from it and into his circuit.


So how can we apply the concept of spatial self resonant frequency to continue Doc Stiffler's work of cohering charge from the local environment?


Bob

   Bob: 
   As you may know, I had followed the Docs videos and replication when he came back on the scene.    I built up a crystal oscillator, connected to an L3 coil, which was connected to one "diode loop" or two loops, and also to a gutted 8.5w led, or two of those led bulbs in series. Although I agree that that set up was one of the most efficient as far as current consumption, it did drain my two 12v 7ah batteries running the oscillator at 24v, fairly quickly. I could not make it self run by connecting part of the output back to the input. And that was where I stopped, for now.   If you are interested in my tests on the diode loops, and AC led bulbs, please check my youtube channel.
   Just search for Nick Zec, or you can click on the link below, to watch my last video. You might want to check out some of the previous videos, as well.   https://youtu.be/BZsvtlA_Rgc
   NickZ
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on February 04, 2019, 03:27:37 AM
   Bob: 
   As you may know, I had followed the Docs videos and replication when he came back on the scene.    I built up a crystal oscillator, connected to an L3 coil, which was connected to one "diode loop" or two loops, and also to a gutted 8.5w led, or two of those led bulbs in series. Although I agree that that set up was one of the most efficient as far as current consumption, it did drain my two 12v 7ah batteries running the oscillator at 24v, fairly quickly. I could not make it self run by connecting part of the output back to the input. And that was where I stopped, for now.   If you are interested in my tests on the diode loops, and AC led bulbs, please check my youtube channel.
   Just search for Nick Zec, or you can click on the link below, to watch my last video. You might want to check out some of the previous videos, as well.   https://youtu.be/BZsvtlA_Rgc (https://youtu.be/BZsvtlA_Rgc)
   NickZ
Thanks Nick. I'll check 'em out!
Regards,
Bob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Bob Smith on February 04, 2019, 03:30:40 AM
I have been in the electronic business for 40 years and i have not seen
a more efficient simple circuit as the SEC.. Just to note there is no such thing a
a close loop system. Ether interacts with every single thing..
Seychelles,
I'm curious... Do you think that running the circuit with the primary coil's self resonant frequency is important to the circuit's efficiency?


I'm also in complete agreement with your statement about all circuits being open.
Bob
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on February 04, 2019, 03:51:49 AM
   Bob:   My crystal oscillator does not use a primary coil, just the L3 coil(s). The oscillator crystal frequency is 12MHz and the L3 is tuned to that SAME frequency. The Doc used 13.6MHz as his best frequency, but I found that mine worked best at 12MHz. I did try the 13.6 crystal, as well.   The Docs "secret" was the diode loops, using the IN4148 diodes, which are switching diodes. Which allowed the voltages to raise by quite a bit.
   Lidmotor also made a few videos about the Doc's ideas and replications. You might want to check them out, also, if you haven't seen them already.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on May 13, 2019, 09:46:51 PM
Here someone beats the drum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfGDEthE2tQ&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfGDEthE2tQ&feature=youtu.be)
member inquorate ...//here http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-76.html (http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-76.html)
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Inquorate on April 01, 2020, 04:13:42 AM
https://youtu.be/vY8R-z5fmq8
Here is a short presentation on the SEC 18 circuit I prepared for a university assessment.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: ramset on April 01, 2020, 04:02:50 PM
Sir...It gives me a big smile to see your tribute to the Doc and his "think outa the box"path.
I will be sure to pass this to all who experimented there.
Much Luv from ground Zero [NYC area ....
Chet
..//..PS your vid again... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY8R-z5fmq8&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: shylo on April 02, 2020, 09:40:52 AM
Inquorate ,I agree that there is flow in both directions.
That's why you need another set of diodes on the other leg of your coil.
artv
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on April 02, 2020, 04:19:19 PM
   Inquorate:   Thanks for the video and presentation.   Can you provide any proof that the Docs circuits, such as the "secret" diode loop circuit, are able to produce OU, or self running?   We can say that any "extra energy" may be coming from the "ambient". But, what extra energy?  Can any of this supposed extra energy be shown, and proven, by input to output measurements? As I have not seen this to be the case, as yet. After several months work on these circuits.   If no extra energy can be shown, up to now. What is the point?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Inquorate on April 04, 2020, 01:53:11 AM
   Inquorate:   Thanks for the video and presentation.   Can you provide any proof that the Docs circuits, such as the "secret" diode loop circuit, are able to produce OU, or self running?   We can say that any "extra energy" may be coming from the "ambient". But, what extra energy?  Can any of this supposed extra energy be shown, and proven, by input to output measurements? As I have not seen this to be the case, as yet. After several months work on these circuits.   If no extra energy can be shown, up to now. What is the point?


Here are a few documents to consider. However, I will say here that I tried for years to walk before I could crawl. Unless you have a signal generator with fast fourier transform spectrum analysis, AND a sine wave signal generator capable of 50mhz AT MINIMUM, you won't be able to tune properly.


Also, unless you understand what is happening with one coil, you won't understand what happens with two. And then you need to understand how 2 coild with a capacitor between them works.


Here are some videos to watch;


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBnO2i7wr6vVxUSPGdtFthA-go6FiXAMr


and here are some articles which may help you understand all the effects that can be brought together in resonance;


http://www.i-sis.org.uk/The_Z_theory_of_everything.php
https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-discover-exotic-patterns-of-synchronization-20190404/ (https://www.quantamagazine.org/physicists-discover-exotic-patterns-of-synchronization-20190404/)
Universal Quantum Phenomenon Found in Superconductors | Quanta Magazine (https://www.quantamagazine.org/universal-quantum-phenomenon-found-in-superconductors-20181119/)
LED's efficiency exceeds 100% (https://m.phys.org/news/2012-03-efficiency.html)
Faster-Than-Light Travel Could Explain Mysterious Signals Beaming Through the Cosmos | Live Science (https://www.livescience.com/gamma-ray-bursts-go-faster-than-light.html)
Current mode second breakdown in epitaxial planar transistors - IEEE Journals & Magazine (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/1474426)
Negative resistance in p-n junctions under avalanche breakdown conditions, part I - IEEE Journals & Magazine (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1474237)
https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-1/ac-phase/ (https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/alternating-current/chpt-1/ac-phase/)


So, There are all the answers.


I recently purchased everything required to make some calorimeters, and aim to replicate the single wire excitation document, starting with testing the calorimeters to determine how big their margin of error is.


Start at the beginning.







Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Inquorate on April 04, 2020, 02:43:55 AM
There's also these. But better to start with one or two coils and go from there
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on April 04, 2020, 05:20:00 AM
   Inquorate:   Thanks for the links. However, I am very familiar with the Docs work, and ideas. I followed him, and replicated some of his last tests, but was not able to observe anything particularly useful. As far as input to output is concerned.
His diode bridge or loop "secret" was also replicated by me, but again, I found little actual useful benefit from the "diode loop" tests.As a higher output caused by the switching diodes used, also causes the input current to raise, as well. So, a very efficient circuit, but, no free lunch.
   The question: Is there any real third party proof by real measurements showing OU, or anything to get excited about?   I have followed the Doc to the end, and do have a signal generator, scope, etz... So, no need to start with one or two coils...   I have spent many hours, days, and months working on his circuits, know his theories, and circuits. Therefore, my question to you, are there any working Dr. Stiffer type of replications, that you know of? By that I mean self running, OU, etz...
  Here is one of my videos showing my version of Dr. Stiffler's "diode loop" tests and replications. I was using a crystal oscillator that I built, running at 12.MHz. I tested using the 13.6MHz crystals, as well, which was where the Docs best running frequency sweet spot, was at.
   https://youtu.be/MydqZEBi9TM
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Inquorate on April 04, 2020, 05:57:02 AM
Picking a frequency such as 13.6 mhz (you did well to find a 13.6mhs xtal. I was unable to find any the times I looked.) without knowing why you are picking it, or 12mhz or ten, will get you nowhere. You will not see gain. I have done experiments using avramenko plugs in apurely transverse wave environment. Nothing special hapens. You have to have resonant atomic phonon (longitudinal) vibrations present.

Your system in the video, unless you have tuned the oscillator to the spatial resonant frequency of the coil, you are just making loads of electromagnetic waves. If you turn up the power, you might start to see interesting stuff by pure chance, as you may hit a resonant point somewhere in the circuit.
you do need to look at one or two coils. if you understood what was happening, you would have built the circuit differently, and paid more attention to how you made the coils. For example, please look at this and tell me what you see.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BuObUphgNXg/
Regards,Ben
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on April 04, 2020, 06:46:48 AM
  Well, yes. My two or three coils are tuned to their best running frequency. Which for me was not 13.6MHz, but 12Mhz, instead. I do have and have tried using many different crystal frequencies. And my best response may be slightly different ambient frequency point, than where the Doc was located. But, it was close to the same sweet spot, in any case.    BTW: you can find 13.6MHz crystals (two) in old an wireless Pc mouse. Or order them online.
    What do I see in the images that you posted? Well,  I see that there are no input to output measurements... which is really what we need. Spacial coherence, and it's resonant frequency response, is what I am looking for. I know what I'm looking for.        Have you found what you're looking for?    It easy to say you need this or that to have results, but I don't see anyone showing real measurements, to prove the point. Further more, I don't think that it's even possible to show accurate scope shots. Since connecting a scope negative ground probe to the circuit will KILL the HV, to ground. So...
    I do think that there is something to all this, or I would not have spent the time studying and replicating his circuits.
But, now he's  gone.   We are still here...  So, can you show us something to get excited about? Not just theory. I understand the theory... But, you may not be up to speed on his final "secret" diode loop circuits tests, and how they are supposed to work, and why. As I did not see you participating in that project, which was different in several ways, to his earlier builds and tests.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Inquorate on April 04, 2020, 08:27:34 AM
Well,  I see that there are no input to output measurements... which is really what we need.
Do we? in most cases, yes. A proper measurement of joules in and joules out will invariably show a gain if there is one, or a loss if there is not. But there is one case that I showed you which does not require joules in and joules out measurements.

I know you suspect you are not operating at a gain or you would have attempted a calorimeter test to determine it. Your coils are wound wrongly. Build them to the fraction of a millimeter to Dr Stiffler's specifications and you will see an increase in response. Or do you think he picked the dimensions at random?
You do not understand the theory my friend. His diode loop was just another toy. I have posted a link previous that explains the magic happening there, and it is fairly common knowledge.
My friend, to work out how to build a self running circuit, you will need to do a full one eighty on your thinking processes. To prove gain, more out than in, you will need to build a calorimeter.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on April 04, 2020, 04:19:50 PM
   In order for you to make such claims, some proof needs to be shown, not just repeating what you've heard him say.
   I am as familiar as you to his devices, claims, and theories, yet, neither YOU or I have built anything to show that works with a gain. 
   This discussion can go on forever, unless some proof of concept is replicated and shown with all it's secrets. 
   Again, you did not build his diode loop. Did you??? Which was his best and most useful effort on this project. So, don't come on like you KNOW what you're talking about. Show some proof, if you can please, then we can discuss what works, and what doesn't.   As I mentioned, I doubt that connecting a scope up, will have no affect of the operation of the device. So, not so easy to do, to prove things, one way or the other.   I don't need calometric measurements. I need strong lights, that run on flea farts. Not just another "toy", to play with.   
   Shit is already hitting to fan, with the current situation on Earth. So... no time for building toys.    The name of this thread is Self Running cold electricity circuit by Dr. Stiffler.
   So, where is his self running circuit?  One that is not connected to his labs AC ground line. And was taken outside to prove the point, of self running. Can you answer that??? Without mentioning that I don't know how to build his circuits, but that only you do. IF that is so, then are you able show us all how it's done?
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: Inquorate on April 04, 2020, 10:29:39 PM
You are wasting my time.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on April 04, 2020, 10:57:39 PM
  The question is, are you waisting our time.   
   Or do you actually have something to show.
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: onepower on April 13, 2020, 05:53:53 AM
Test
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: onepower on April 13, 2020, 07:04:20 PM
Was doing some clean up and found one of the first circuit boards Ron was selling to experimenters. Did a lot of tests on it back then and found he and I were doing similar things. We both open sourced it and a newbie at the time called slayer popularized what I called open gate/base self-oscillating circuits. It's really nothing more than a simplified field effect feedback loop which can operate at very high efficiencies.

Regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: onepower on April 13, 2020, 07:50:38 PM
NickZ
Quote
Inquorate:   Thanks for the links. However, I am very familiar with the Docs work, and ideas. I followed him, and replicated some of his last tests, but was not able to observe anything particularly useful. As far as input to output is concerned.
His diode bridge or loop "secret" was also replicated by me, but again, I found little actual useful benefit from the "diode loop" tests.As a higher output caused by the switching diodes used, also causes the input current to raise, as well. So, a very efficient circuit, but, no free lunch.
The question: Is there any real third party proof by real measurements showing OU, or anything to get excited about?

The main circuit was simply a high efficiency self-oscillator required to prevent detuning. Inquorate was also correct that the conductor lengths are important as well as there geometry and placement. Unlike most common circuits the effects are almost solely dependent on length, surface area, geometry and proximity.

I remember the diode loop test and in retrospect it wasn't so much to show FE as demonstrate a concept. Not unlike the Avramenko plug it should not be taken literally and looked at conceptually to refine a process. All the basic elements are there in my opinion and the diode loop test was just a test. The question is what do you think Ron was looking for and why?.

Regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: DavidWolff on April 13, 2020, 10:11:44 PM
Have you found this site yet ?

http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/SECDrivers.htm.html
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: NickZ on April 14, 2020, 04:32:27 PM
Have you found this site yet ?

http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/SECDrivers.htm.html (http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/SECDrivers.htm.html)
   Dave:  That is just a repetition of what had been shown at that time. The diode bridge was not shown there, which was his most important contribution, before he died. His last "energy through the ground" idea was also not shown nor replicated by anyone, to see IF it worked or not.

  One power: Yes, the coil tuning is of upmost importance, to see anything unusual. But, his circuits were anything but simple, to get working right. Or, has anyone made them self run, or shown any OU after all these years???  Like Inquorate, etz... who says that he knows how and why they work. I asked him to SHOW us, he answers that I waist his time...
   
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: onepower on April 14, 2020, 05:20:21 PM
NickZ
Quote
One power: Yes, the coil tuning is of upmost importance, to see anything unusual. But, his circuits were anything but simple, to get working right.

I agree, and these ultra sensitive circuits could be affected by any number of things including relative humidity. Some I built could detect a person petting the cat on the other side of the house. The range can be so large it becomes almost impossible to tell what any given change represents. I was using an Ardunio/Labview interface to plot the changes over time, hours sometimes days.

Quote
Or, has anyone made them self run, or shown any OU after all these years???  Like Inquorate, etz... who says that he knows how and why they work. I asked him to SHOW us, he answers that I waist his time...

Of course, everyone knows how FE works... they just can't tell anyone, lol. I don't believe in OU, I believe in FE which relates to external energy transformed within any given device like a crystal radio for example. There is also the small issue of FE inventors having random heart attacks and being hit by cars. Apparently the moment one shows a working device they also become extremely accident prone, lol.

Regards
Title: Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
Post by: alan on June 03, 2022, 04:04:56 PM
What happens when you place an Avramenko plug into the voltage line of the wall outlet and put between the 2 diodes a regular 110/220V step-down transformer? 
And  what would happen when the transformer is customized so the primary or secondary has the length of 1/4 wavelength of 50/60Hz?