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Author Topic: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler  (Read 1470481 times)

DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #450 on: November 02, 2007, 02:10:15 PM »
his knowledge of the device is so superficial that he has missed every important concept there....The circuit is not even remotely similar. Visually, both flash.....thats where the similarity ends.

Ben [/b][/b]

Thanks for the reply.
@canam101

I don't feel this thread wants to focus on NEGATIVE or SPECULATIVE assessments, unless it is by one of those in the threat that are dedicated and applying effort towards finding the answer for themselves. In this thread we have people spending time that could be spent with family, sports etc., looking into these circuits for answers. The evidence shown here has already out weighted any from your reference.

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

canam101

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #451 on: November 02, 2007, 02:20:20 PM »

I would suggest you move on if that is your direction of comment and apparent insult to all working here. I think I speak for all, we want result, not bunk.

Sure, no problem. People who are able to work on replicating this probably prefer to spend their time doing that rather than answering questions from the peanut gallery; and if it isn't for real, they will eventually see that and let us know.

DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #452 on: November 02, 2007, 02:44:08 PM »
@Stefan

>>Please Ron,
can you check, if also other cores work for you
and how your circuit behaves, when you remove the core
from the coils ?

I know I have answered this a hundred times, but can't find where. One last time.

I tried various core material I have at the lab, most unknown content, some for AF, RF and LF chokes. I tried xformer cores and pot cores. I did not get any worthwhile results from these attempts. Nothing I would not agree was standard EE results.

I still remain amazed that others seem to. Hey maybe I did something wrong. But your on you won in this area, I have noting to offer other than I could not get results.

You IC approach to a driver. I think I mentioned this to 'amigo', this is not a current driven anomaly, the input impedance is so high that it just is not the correct approach. Voltage driven and impedance matching in the driver is the most important part of the replication. You can see this is true in the other replication postings.

I am happy to hear that you have at least seen the HV occur. Your close, don't dismay.

plengo

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #453 on: November 02, 2007, 05:02:04 PM »
@Adriano,
Quote
Fantastic! You are reproduced the Avramenko experiment!
Did I? well, I am glad of that!


Quote
It would now be interesting to close the circuit to mass with the generator of signals, to see if this has effect to heat the thin wire. If you have a termocouple or thermometer you can measure the heating of the thread in the two cases.
I dont' think I will be able to measure any heat from this wire in my lab. It is so small, if any, that I would need a more controled envrionment for that.

Quote
I think that your experiment is fundamental better to understand the phenomenon. To what frequency are you using the generator of signals? And possible measure the current which comes along the wire with the oscilloscopio which I have seen in the photography? Can you send an image to be able to understand the current he passes to you? And also the tension.
I agree. I am very puzzled by being able to light those leds with so little power. I measure again last night the current in/out and it is very interesting that the in current is less than .1 milliamp and the out can be as high as 20milliamp. Voltage has been very difficult to measure, it affects everything.  I will take some shots of the oscilloscope from many different places in the circuit.


Quote
Can you use/build a simple signal generator, powered by a battery and therefore do again the tests verifying the absorption of the oscillator (always with the oscilloscope) and the group of the LEDs?
I am working on that already. Soon I will be running this thing without the func-gen.


Quote
I Think is important to understand  if the system composed by:
oscillator-> wire -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?

If is only a transport media the envelopment L1-L2-L3 used by Stiffer becomes fundamental.

At this point tries to insert only L1, do a test for his dimensioning and verifies what happens.
oscillator-> wire -> L1 -> rectifier -> LEDs
produce energy or only transport energy ?
I also tested this circuit in parallel to another one very similliar where ALL the leds are in parallel, about 15 more, and they all light bright (so a total of 70 leds). It seams that If I decouple the signal from the func-gen from the circuits I can run many more circuits at the same time with no logical reason from where the power is coming from. (I know this sounds craizy, but hey, Dr. Stiffler started all).
One more note: I tried last night also using a long, very long cable about 50 feet, to feed the system. It is a lamp wire with two lines, I connected the func-gen (one lead only) to one wire and on the other end I connected the OTHER wire to the circuit and it all works still, even though they are no longer the same wire (I will show later in a diagram). Interesting stuff. Now here is the trick, when the signal comes into the circuit from the "not same wire" I have no current at all in the ground but when they are the "same wire" there is current on the ground. Figures!

@hartiberlin 
Quote
do you need to match the driver frequency to the length of the wire ?
What if you change the length ?
Do you then also have to adjust the
frequency ?
So is it a standing wave ?
No. It is the same frequency in this case. The wire was about 8 feet long. I dont khow if it is a standing wave.

Fausto.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 06:01:16 PM by plengo »

hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #454 on: November 02, 2007, 05:03:22 PM »
Hi Ron,
do I understand this right, that you said, that one needs the right special core material, otherwise it would not work ?

Then I guess, I still have not yet the right ferrite cores...
Maybe I really shoild order a few pieces from this Ebay seller....

To the question about the 74AC14 driver IC.
The output of this 5 inverters in parallel
should be so low in impedance to be able to drive quite a load. From your scopeshots I have seen, that you also drove your core with about 4 Volts, but I never get anywhere to 26 Volts in my circuit...
Hmm, I only have very low light on the neon bulb and also already just at the oscillator output without the coil-core...
I am going out now buying better parts. Stay tuned...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2007, 08:25:17 PM by hartiberlin »

Grim

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #455 on: November 02, 2007, 05:06:59 PM »
Wow, what an amazing thread!

I have been reading the whole thing today, and I am astounded.
The work on replicating Stiflers device is incredible.

Reminds me of my first introduction to electronics, when I was a cub scout.
Back then is when I was first inspired by an electrical device, and the same feeling comes over me now when I read this thread.

God bless you Stifler, and good luck.

I will watch from the sidelines, with bated breathe, as this gathers momentum.

hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #456 on: November 02, 2007, 07:22:22 PM »
Just came back from
www.segor.de
and bought a few 40106 hex inverters
2.2 uH coils and some smaller pF caps for my
oscillator.

I also had a look at the LTC 1799,
but man, is this thing small !

Too small for my soldering iron and
I could not handle this thing with my
hands.
It costs there 3,80 EU per piece.

If somebody would have a circuit board for it,
which I could buy, maybe this would be an alternative,
but for now I am trying to use just the 40106 hex schmitt trigger
IC.
Now I might get a higher amplitude with using 15 Volts supply.

P.S: Ben can you try your setup please with modifying your coil-
magnet core combination and tell us, what change will still work and
what not ?

We need to get to the parameters, which really produce the power amplification.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

k4zep

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #457 on: November 02, 2007, 08:19:56 PM »
Stefan,

Will wind an air core coil this evening 7-8 EST and report. My core not is not removable on the Ferrite magnet as I wound it directly on it with no paper/slideable insulation as I wanted as close coupling as I could get.

 Just puttering around now waiting for parts to come in.  I agree that LTC is a Little Tiny Chip..........wow......

IF the device is working correctly, you should see elongation of the waveforms from the BF which I suspect is where the extra energy comes from........I still have a bunch to learn, I wish I knew 1/10 what the good Dr. knows!  All the questions we have are old hat to him..  Any test of a circuit takes 20-30 min to get all the measurements down exact and crunching the data.  I really am curious if there is anything else that will excite the way BF core does and provide this output. 

REMEMBER you MUST have that L/C input series resonant device between the driver/generator and the BF coil for it to work properly  and it must be at resonance for maximum output.......at least that is a start.  The funkest thing is the possibility of a negative resistance or inductance reported by Dr. Stiffler with the BF coil on his inductance meter.  I have to look into that!!!!

Ben K4ZEP

Just came back from
www.segor.de
and bought a few 40106 hex inverters
2.2 uH coils and some smaller pF caps for my
oscillator.

I also had a look at the LTC 1799,
but man, is this thing small !

Too small for my soldering iron and
I could not handle this thing with my
hands.
It costs there 3,80 EU per piece.

If somebody would have a circuit board for it,
which I could buy, maybe this would be an alternative,
but for now I am trying to use just the 40106 hex schmitt trigger
IC.
Now I might get a higher amplitude with using 15 Volts supply.

P.S: Ben can you try your setup please with modifying your coil-
magnet core combination and tell us, what change will still work and
what not ?

We need to get to the parameters, which really produce the power amplification.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.


hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #458 on: November 02, 2007, 08:37:21 PM »
Hi all,

Look at pix attached.  1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire.  Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it.  FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.

Ben

Ben,
please can you test, how much dependend the output brightness  of your LEDs is
on the used signal generator voltage level ? 27 Volts pp ?

What, if you used a lower driving voltage ?
What frequency do you use ? Which is the best one ?
Can you go as low as 4 Volts peak to peak to drive it and
have still the LEDs lit the same brightness ?

hartiberlin

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #459 on: November 02, 2007, 08:40:39 PM »


REMEMBER you MUST have that L/C input series resonant device between the driver/generator and the BF coil for it to work properly  and it must be at resonance for maximum output.......at least that is a start.  The funkest thing is the possibility of a negative resistance or inductance reported by Dr. Stiffler with the BF coil on his inductance meter.  I have to look into that!!!!

Ben K4ZEP



Okay, yes, I did not have this LC resonance circuit yet between the oscillator and the core.
But now have the right parts hopefully,but I only got 330 pF and 470 pF foil caps , no 400 pF silver cap...

Well, back to the table to work now on it.

Regards, Stefan.

amigo

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #460 on: November 03, 2007, 12:23:23 AM »
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...

DrStiffler

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #461 on: November 03, 2007, 12:39:25 AM »
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are $1,495 new. :(

abassign

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #462 on: November 03, 2007, 12:41:38 AM »
@plengo

"the current in/out and it is very interesting that the in current is less than .1 milliamp and the out can be as high as 20milliamp"

Is not clear, where are the point that the current is 0.1 mA and that is 20 mA ?

How thin was the thin wire ? If you cannot measure it, tries to wrap it on a cilinder and after 10-20 turns seeing how wide is.

If the electric wave is longitudinal, the current could change along the thread, you can measure the current in several points of the thread ? For instance if the thread is 50 ft. every 5/10 ft? This measure can allows to know as runs the current along the thread. You mast repeat the measure 2-3 times.

"I am working on that already. Soon I will be running this thing without the func-gen."

Perfect, measuring the power which feeds the circuit and isolating the circuit from the mass is very important.

I also tested this circuit in parallel ...  I have no current at all in the ground but when they are the "same wire" there is current on the ground. Figures!

It is necessary explain better what you have observed and send a diagram.
As you describe the experiment, do you can increase the LED number without reducing their luminous emission ? However is necessary to obtain an oscillator powered by batteries before to do the quantitative tests.

Are you able to do a test also with L1 (in or out the thin wire) ?

Best regards
Adriano (Italy)

k4zep

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #463 on: November 03, 2007, 12:50:45 AM »
Hi all,

Look at pix attached.  1 led in series with the input, 10 LEDs on the output. Input and output single wire.  Oh, I live in a reinforced concrete building and I am in the middle of it.  FM or AM radio just don't work where my mini shop is (Worlds smallest lab). I have been through about 100 variations in the last hour and half, learning as I go. My Sig generator is 27V pp output floating as I have removed the ground connector on plug but of course there is inductive coupling to ground but all is floating right now.

Ben

Ben,
please can you test, how much dependend the output brightness  of your LEDs is
on the used signal generator voltage level ? 27 Volts pp ?

Input voltage PP vs. output seems linear but have really not measured it or graphed it.

What, if you used a lower driving voltage ?
LEDs are porportnately dimmer.

What frequency do you use ? Which is the best one ?  Depend on leads, etc. anywhere between 5-8 MHz.  Totally dependent on the resonant frequency of the series circuit driving the BF coil/core.
Can you go as low as 4 Volts peak to peak to drive it and
have still the LEDs lit the same brightness ? 

I can't but my coil is very NON STANDARD.  There are a whole bunch of variables in there as to number of turns, coupling, etc.  A real analysis of the circuit would take time and be a real brain teaser.  I'm sure @ 4V Peak to Peak I can get energy transfer across the circuit, whether there would be enough to drive a LED is a question.  You have to have enough to turn on the diodes in the AV plug @ their summing junction.  Then there has to be enough voltage and current to fire off the LEDs.  I'll know a lot more when I get my coils in.  I have some very nice litz wire that I can play around with a basic core and see if there is an optimum turn ratio on the device and answer a lot of questions I have as to what is going on.  It MIGHT have nothing to do with turn ratio up to a point and then it might have everything to do with the BF resonance frequencies within the mass of the core and then the resonance of the large coil around it to match that frequency for maximum energy transfer/out.  Another thing to remember is that this circuit can operate as a simple AV plug, one wire device @ under unity values.  So there is no problem lighting a LED with RF or AF with the AV plug, just not the gain you want!...........

k4zep

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Re: Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler
« Reply #464 on: November 03, 2007, 12:54:27 AM »
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Well, no more crappy flip-flop driver circuits for me, I am happy to announce that I now own a Wavetek 191 pulse/function generator (came in today, $100 on eBay) :D

I'm going to make some leads for it and test this again this time close to Dr.Stiffler's original tests. Still need to build an LC meter, but I got all the parts for that as well so I'm hoping this weekend to be a productive one. :)

Will post more as time goes by...

Oh...I'm looking into a Tektronix 2465A oscilloscope as well, anyone knows if that's a fairly decent one or should I search for something else. This one is sort of convenient - almost local to where I live...
Did you buy this by gun point? These gen's are $1,495 new. :(

I cannot emphasize how important Ebay is for test equipment.  I live and die with equipment off there.  Most of my test equipment I get for less than 1/10 of what it cost new!  Of course you have to read the fine print and know what you are doing but for us old timers, what a deal!